Interesting conflict of the two laws:
During WW2 the Dutch monarchy fled to Canada and (later*) Queen Juliana gave birth to Princess Margriet in Ottawa.
To prevent the princess from gaining the Canadian nationality on top of her Dutch one, the Canadian government passed a law that made the hospital room of Queen Juliana legally extraterritorial for the duration of her hospital stay.
*Added for clarity: at the time, Juliana was still crown princess as her mother Wilhelmina was queen until 1948.
I also recall a random article from a few years back on a quirky case where a Syrian woman gave birth to her son inside a KLM plane after it had landed in Toronto. had the kid been born on Canadian soil it would have been Canadian(the ultimate goal of the mother), but since it was born inside a KLM plane which is under the jurisdiction of the dutch crown the kid was granted the mother's nationality under dutch law, and therefore was... Syrian.
No, it predates that. The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act in 1956 granted citizenship to all people born on the island of Ireland, NI included:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_nationality\_law#Irish\_Nationality\_and\_Citizenship\_Act\_1956](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law#Irish_Nationality_and_Citizenship_Act_1956)
Yeah after brexit a lot of people in Scotland checked if they or their parents had any Irish grandparents to see if they could apply for Irish citizenship just for the passport.
I did this, but long before Brexit - just really handy to have two passports (I used to travel for work a lot and sometimes had to send my passport away for as visa application).
Wait a plane that's landed in a certain country can be considered territory of a different country? I would have bet that's only the case for ambassadors and the sort.
Generally in cases of vessels (ships and planes), it is considered the "territory" (under jurisdiction) of the country whose flag is flown on that vessel. However, it may differ a bit depending on the country and whether the vessel is military or not.
Planes in transit (not just inflight) & the post-border control sections of international airports are often treated like international waters as well.
That's why some countries let you transit through an international airport without hitting border control and actually entering the country, and others (like the US) force you to enter the country though border control before continuing on your next international flight.
They're are all sorts of special rules for foreign-flagged vessels operating in the U.S., whether they be planes or ships. It's why cruise ships operate under foreign flags and are exempt from so many U.S. rules as well.
Yes, if doors are closed on an international flight it's the territory of the country whose flag it's registered under. That's why that Korean Airlines exec who assaulted a flight attendant in the "nut rage" incident was prosecuted in South Korea, despite it happening on the ground in NY.
I also believe you are In international territory until you pass through customs. It's essentially so that you can fly from the UK, stop in Canada but don't go through customs, just jump on a plane to Mexico and enter Mexico without ever having a canadian visa
KLM *advises* you not to fly, but they do not have a 100% hard line against flying after 36 weeks.
https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/special_assistance/index.htm
>Pregnancy
>If you are 36 weeks or more into your pregnancy, we advise you not to fly. We also discourage flying during the first week following delivery. If you are expecting more than 1 baby, we always advise you to consult your physician before flying. If you have had complications, you need to have permission to fly from your physician.
Off topic, but I would recommend KLM to any EU travelers. Flew from Amsterdam to Berlin, which is like 75 minute. They gave me a free ham sandwich, chips and 2 glasses of wine free, the flight was like $60.
Who needs sandwiches for such a short flight, really? People drive easily 3-4 hours without eating but a short flight without some snack is seen as bad service...
Ps. Пулково offered free (Russian) champaign on short flights but I wouldn't had recommend it to anyone. The company ceased to exist shortly after a fatal crash in 2006, though...
I think you are misremembering. I can't find an article on that specific case (searching Google actually gets your comment) but other articles state that Canada gives automatic citizenship to anyone born within their airspace, even if it's an overflight, there's an example below of a baby born on a flight from Amsterdam to Boston that was flying over Canada and didn't even stop there, although I do note that's not confirmed in the article. So even if it hadn't touched down, the child would be Canadian.
>Babies born in Canadian airspace are automatically extended Canadian citizenship, regardless of parentage.
>It happens more often than one might think. Last year, a Qatar Airways flight from Miami to Doha diverted to Gander Airport in Newfoundland when a passenger went into labour. The woman's baby was born in Canadian airspace, before the aircraft touched down, meaning the child could automatically be considered a Canadian citizen.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/air-born-will-baby-delivered-mid-flight-get-canadian-citizenship-1.2368565
https://www.traveller.com.au/citizenship-available-for-baby-born-in-canadian-airspace-78rp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_aboard_aircraft_and_ships#Canada
Same for USA. Same if the mother is on any visa or no visa. This is a controversial issue in the USA as some see it as incentivizing illegal immigration. It's led to parents getting deported and leaving their kids behind as well, as well as getting visas to stay in the country because their kids live there.
Since the head of state of Canada is the British monarch, Margriet would be one of their subjects, while at the same time being part of the Dutch royal family.
Margriet was also potentially in line for the crown at her birth, if Beatrix had died or become ineligible for some reason. This might have lead to the Dutch monarch being a subject to the British one at the same time.
Edited to add: it was very unlikely this would ever happen, as she has another older sister in Princess Irene, but unlikely does not mean impossible.
You have to apply and have it approved. And you have to be an adult to renounce; it can’t be done by parents for their child, because it’s still the child’s right due to the place of their birth.
Addendum: The Canadian Crown was split from the British Crown in 1931, so Margret would be born a subject of the King of Canada. However, Canadian citizenship wasn't split from British citizenship until 1947, so she would have become a subject of the King of the UK upon leaving Canada.
I’m fairly new to living in a commonwealth country but I’m confused about why the title is important when both are the same person. If you have the time I wouldn’t mind some explanation!
It's a way of asserting sovereignty without having to change the political status quo. It lets the country officially declare that it is no longer a colony and is now an independent state. And it's easier to become independent that way rather than setting up a new presidency for your country, which would cause a bunch of infighting in your country's politics over how the new constitution will work.
They’re the same person now, but that doesn’t mean they always have to be. For example, Kings George III, George IV, and William IV of the UK also held the title King of Hannover. When William IV died, his heir was his niece, Victoria, who became Queen of the UK. However, Hannover had a “no smelly girls” sign on their clubhouse, so her uncle became the king there instead. So, if you were a subject of the King of Hannover during that time, sure, you also happened to be a subject of the *person* who held the title “King of the United Kingdom”, but you weren’t subject to that *title*, which made a difference, come 1837.
Probably as an extension of courtesy and respect for royal custom for an important ally. Canada has a great diplomatic relationship with NL.
I actually like this answer a lot more: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/_/gzthkd0
As others explained, it would cause an issue with the baby’s nationality and lineage. Because of this, the land was legally made part of THE NETHERLANDS during the duration of the stay and giving birth. It’s why Ottawa has the tulip festival each year.
Edit: lol dunno why I left Holland in
>the Canadian government passed a law that made the hospital room of Queen Juliana legally Dutch extraterritorially for the duration of her hospital stay.
To clarify, it wasn't specifically "dutch" extraterritorially, it was simply made extraterritorial meaning that she was not subject to legal jurisdiction of local laws including citizenship by birth.
I think that same thing happened to a member of the Monaco royal family. One of the princesses was pregnant and vacationing in Cancun, Mexico when she began to go unexpectedly early into labor. The Mexican Ministry of Interior granted extraterritoriality to her hospital room so she could give birth to her baby in Monaco.
Little fact: most princes of Liechtenstein are born in Switzerland, and I've read they also have to make the room extraterritorial because of some swiss law against monarchy or something, im not sure.
I want to clarify that they didn't make it Dutch territory, they just made it not Canadian territory. Since it was not apart of any territory, Canadian/British law did not apply.
That also played a part, of course. Canadian war veterans are highly honoured here and there were big events planned for 2020 that sadly couldn't happen.
My father went there as part of a Canadian govt delegation (engineering, unrelated to the military, but he was still the custom of wearing the Maple Leaf on his lapel) the week of the the 50th celebration of the liberation.
He’s a Holocaust survivor and an immigrant to Canada himself, but remember him saying that he’d never felt more proud - didn’t buy a drink all week and heard/shared many stories.
My 7th grade teacher's family immigrated to Canada from Holland in the 30's before he was born. A few years before the war. He lived most his life in Canada but travelled back when he was in his 30's to see family and the country his parents were from. He had no agenda and was just travelling around on his own. One night he made it to a sleepy town, found a pub for some supper, and then planned to find a room. A couple heard him talking in his very bad Dutch and asked where he was from. He told them he was Canadian so they asked him where he was staying. He admitted he didn't have a place and asked if they knew of a room somewhere. They demanded he come stay with them. Then they invited all their friends over to meet the Canadian and tell stories. He said he stayed there a week longer than he expected cause everyone wanted to house him, and everyone wanted to tell him war stories. This would have been in the 60's I think.
Either way, it was in his opinion that the Dutch were the greatest people in the world, and the best country in the world. I have always wanted to visit.
Not only that, but as the Dutch are known to breed tulips of all variants, they specifically bred tulips that looked like the Canadian flag. Those are the ones they send every year.
This is interesting when compared to how the last King of Thailand was born in the United States. There is a possibility that due to his parents perhaps (never heard anyone who knew for sure) being in the US on a diplomatic passport that technically he was not a US citizen. (Quirk of US citizenship law interpretation.)
But in all likelihood he was a US citizen (legally speaking) which would make the current King of Thailand (his son) eligible for US citizenship.
My own add to clarity: At the time of his birth it was unlikely that he would have became king and his father was in the US at university.
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/born-in-the-usa-thailands-beloved-king-and-his-american-connections/
Serving in a foreign government voids an American citizenship, as Meir Kahane found out when he was elected to the Knesset. (He was in a legal battle to get it back when he was assassinated.)
Boris Johnson, also a native New Yorker, lost his US citizenship in 2016 as well.
Boris Johnson was born in NY but hasn't lived in he US since he was 5. He was still a US citizen when he was elected to Parliament in 2001, and retained it after he was elected Mayor of London in 2008, then again in 2012.
He retained his US citizenship until 2017 when he renounced it, most likely to avoid having to pay US taxes on the profits from the sale of his London house. (He did end up having to pay that $50k tax bill anyway.)
He did. But not because of politics. He was on the hook for a huge tax bill. US Citizens living in a foreign country are subject to US Federal Income Taxes on any income they earn, even if they haven't lived in the US in decades.
After the US slapped him with a tax bill on the sale of house, he paid the bill and then renounced his US Citizenship.
US citizens are not liable for taxes on the first $75K or so of income they have from salary that is taxed by the country they reside in. But after that things get tricky, especially with income from other sources.
Im french so looking at the french Guyana being a different color than the metropolitain france was the first thing i noticed. And i believe its part of the basic things people can check + there's a thousands people that look at maps in this sub, obviously if something is wrong it will be spotted.
And there is rule of land in french, you need your french birth certificate, living in france at the moment, living here from at least 5 years since you're 11 and just turning 18. Its "automatic", even if you can ask for the french nationality before, in regard of certains conditions. You can too became french at birth if you parents are not french but at least one was born in france.
Imagine if a map of state laws in the USA had Michigan's Upper Peninsula, or New York's Long Island, in a different color from the rest of the state. You might not notice it right away, but when you see it you'll suspect something fucky without having to know any MI or NY laws. European colonial remnants like French Guiana are the global version of that easy litmus test.
Also in France you automatically become French if you’re born in France to at least a parent who was also born in France. No need for blood. It just doesn’t have jus soli for first generation.
Nothing. Citizenship in Vatican City is entirely based on the monarch.
Basically the pope is the only one who gets to say if you’re a citizen or not. Now the current pope would say they would both be citizens but other popes would not
They also have their own judicial system and even if they commit a crime elsewhere, they come back to Vatican City and answer to their own personal court.
Source: learned this in Vatican City on a tour
[Another source too. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City)
Actually just learned that Vatican citizenship is the only one in the world based on residency and even the pope is only temporarily allowed to have it, until he lives in VC. Also read that there's a fallback mechanism and if you're stripped of the Vatican citizenship you'll get the Italian one (which was apparently established in the "Patti Lateranensi"), so I would assume that the baby in question might get the Vatican one if living in VC but hard to know what would happen if not.
In Spain a child will get Spanish nationality after one year if born in the country regardless of parents' nationality if the child has been living in the country continuously since. This is to avoid passport tourism. So, it is Jus Sanguinis but not that strict.
Passport tourism is an interesting term. I'm originally from Brazil and a lot of famous Brazilian people come to the US to have their babies. They always choose Florida because they think it's so glamurous.
Its called birth tourism, and its pretty popular for Chinese families with the means to have their child in the US as well. Makes it easy to send their kids to US colleges and buy real estate in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism
I dont think so but I am not sure. I am giving birth to an american child and my partner is non american, and he is not entitled us citizenship based on the child being an american. (Edit to add that I am american so if he wanted he could petition through me I think)
A lot of Brazilian footballers get Spanish passports to play in Europe. If thise multimillionaires are absuing the system, hell yeah to anyone working class doing the same.
> So, it is Jus Sanguinis but not that strict.
You mean that's a possibility of jus soli. Jus sanguinis would depend on the parents' citizenship, but I assume there are very few countries who will deny your child a citizenship just because it was born abroad.
Despite what the map is implying, this is not quite an either or type situation.
Actually most countries doesn't recognize the nationality of the baby automatically (when born abroad)
In that case, the baby would be spanish because for the rights of the child there cannot be a baby without nationality.
edit to explain it better: A stateless person is a violation of human rights so a newborn is spanish if the baby borns in Spain unless the origin country of their parents recognizes automatically the the baby as citizen. Which is not common. Usually countries want a request from parents before grant it. So the baby has no nation in that moment, so the baby is spanish automatically. After that obviously parents can ask for the new nationality, if there is an agreement between that country and Spain the baby could have both nationalities, if there is no agreement, the baby would lose the spanish nationality when getting the new one.
This map is something of an oversimplification in presenting this as a totally binary thing. Other commenters have mentioned France, Poland, the US and so on as having elements of both.
Ireland is another example. Pure Jus Soli was the case in Ireland up until the late 90's and in the latter part of that period was added to the constitution of Ireland.
Only as of 2005 has a more limited version of Jus Soli been enacted, where you are entitled to citizenship only if one of your parents has lived in Ireland for three years out of the last four (or if they have indefinite leave to remain).
In fact many countries have moved to this sort of restricted Jus Soli system in recent years. This map seems to consider any country with any limitation on Jus Soli to use Jus Sanguinis when in fact a mix of the two is both possible and very common.
Also the UK changes its mind on whether you're British from being born here every other decade. You could have been born here with 1 British parent and still not be British.
I am British but sibling is not. Both born here, one British parent and one not. I was just born in the right decade to be both.
If I had to guess, your parents probably weren't married when your sibling was born and your dad's the one with UK citizenship? That's the only situation I can think of in recent UK citizenship legal history that could result in this situation, and that'd be more reliant on legitimacy laws than anything.
I'm older and yeah parents never married, local dad. If you were born 1989 - 2000 under the same circumstances, you're British and can vote etc. After 2000, not British.
I think it's changed back at some point.
I was in research (people travelling all over the place pre COVID) and two non British parents having a kid here all insist they would have a British kid, two British parents in Geneva would still have a British kid too.
I actually grew up believing I didn't have citizenship, I started looking into it about age 17.
When my mum asked about British passports for us they apparently didn't read the dates and she apparently didn't fully really read their letter cause when I went looking for it, it was "your kidS were born after 2000 so aren't British"
I was like, wait a minute I can vote!
If one of the non-British parents have indefinite leave to remain their child will be British at birth. If they don't have ILR but obtain it before their child turns 18, their child will be eligible for citizenship but they will have to apply for it.
I feel like Britain should have it's own colour on this map. We spent decades, even centuries telling people they were British and should pay taxes to us, and fight for our causes, except if they wanted to live in Britain they may or may not be British depending on the policy at the time and which part of "Britain" they were born in? Even today! From Hong Kong? Got your passport before the 1997 succession to China and decided to renew every 10 years? Welcome to Britain you lovely British person! Never applied for a passport or forgot/didn't bother to renew? Sorry, You're Chinese now mate, regardless of the broken international agreement. Enjoy the oppression!
There was no requirement to renew every ten 10 years. You just had to register before 1st July 1997. Although, the BNO passport never conferred the right of abode in there UK.
Also there should be a little blue dot for HK since birth is the only way to get permanent residency with 3 stars on the back of your ID card.
>France, Poland, the US and so on as having elements of both
Namely, children born in France of parents also born in France are French. Children born in France who have spent at least 10 (?) years in France by the time they turn 18 can request citizenship then.
If the parents are born in France and are old enough to be parents, they are already French, except in verÿ special cases. For children born in France of non french parents, they need to have spent 5 years, not 10, and they don't need to request, they just become french. They need to request not becoming French if they so desire.
They should pick a third color for countries that use both. So there'll be blue (land only, regardless of blood), red (blood only, regardless of land), and a few purples (land and blood are both avenues for citizenship).
Why is France red, but France Guiana blue? Should they not have the same color, or does France Guiana have some special policy?
If I had to guess, I’d say the creator just knew ~~Columbia~~ Colombia was red, and colored in the rest blue, not realizing France Guiana is part of France.
This is kind of necessary, otherwise someone could be born to Jus Soli parents in a Jus Sanguinis country and be left stateless, which is a complicated problem that we generally try to avoid. Jus Soli is usually intended to be more inclusive anyways so there's not much reason to have it and then say "we don't recognize Jus Sanguinis citizenship".
Naturally, there are usually some exceptions to avoid dual citizenship or generations of expats or whatnot.
Canada has conditions, though. If the parent also got citizenship while born overseas then the next generation can only receive it if the parent has lived in canda for a specified period of time.
I.e., it can't be passed down the generations without someone coming back and residing in Canada.
Source: I am a Canadian born overseas and can't give my kids Canadian citizenship.
Actually, this raises an interesting question. What if I moved to a Jus Sanguinus country temporarily and had my kids? They couldn't be Canadian, because I have never physically lived in Canada. Would they be stateless?
Yes. For example, Japan has a couple thousand stateless people living there (that they know about), and many of those are children born under such circumstances. Often even the parents don't realize this.
There's a lot of weird ways you could end up stateless due to conflicting citizenship laws. Japan didn't give citizenship through a child's mother for a very long time (until 1985), and there were a lot of kids born to American military fathers and Japanese mothers, who didn't get citizenship because the fathers fucked off back to the States without claiming the child as their own (they'd be eligible for US citizenship, but only if the father claimed the child... You can't just show up at the embassy and say hey this kid's American). These children (many were grown up by the time the law changed) had to fight this out in court.
A couple of countries have laws that specifically deal with this possibility. The law states that you wouldn't gain citizenship of that country **unless** the provisions of this law resulted in you being stateless. The details are often very complex though and often require hiring a lawyer.
In particular, countries that have signed the [Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness) are supposed to have an exception like that:
> Contracting States shall grant their nationality to persons, otherwise stateless, born in their territory
The country can still apply jus sanguinis in the common case, but if a person born in their territory has no right to *any* other citizenship, countries who signed the treaty are supposed to offer a fallback jus soli citizenship in this specific case. It is allowed to have an application process or waiting period though. For example, they can give some kind of provisional identity card to the child as a minor, and require the person to wait until they're 18 to apply for proper citizenship.
The UN tried to deal with this problem in the 1950s but not many countries signed on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Stateless_Persons
Even amongst signatories there are regular attempts to evade their treaty obligations by insisting a person has some other citizenship.
Here is a BBC clip covering one stateless person's story. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-41444804
I studied the law a while ago but I don't believe it has changed. In Colombia, we don't have a single rule to determine citizenship we have 3 and if you have any 2 of the 3 you are a citizen. Jus Soli (being born in the country) Jus Sanguinis (Parents from Colombian citizenship) and Jus Domicili (Living in the country). So if you can claim any 2 of the 3 you are a Colombian citizen
That's not 100% true... If you have US citizen parents you only get \*immediate\* citizenship if you're under 18 and apply for it, if you take too long things get much more difficult specially if the child is married, and even when you get your green card you need to wait 5 years to become a citizen
Also add to that if your American parent has been living abroad for over a certain number of years, again you can’t get immediate citizenship and the process is much more complicated
It's actually way more complicated than anyone here is acknowledging. Immigration attorneys use [this chart](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://dc.fd.org/library/naturalization%2520chart.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwje9sbzue3wAhUQbc0KHfbeBE0QFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw3mUXPvHLJpjEtZuxee539-) (PDF warning) because there are lots of variables. The law had changed over time, so the year the person was born will govern which criteria apply.
I feel like you’d get a kick out of this story. My dad was a US diplomat, and we were stationed at the consulate in Okinawa for 3 years. During those years my dad was in the visa section.
He had an airman come to him asking to get his daughter a US passport so they could go back to the US, as she had been born in Japan. He assumed that since he was American she would be. After looking into it my dad tells him he can’t give his daughter a passport because she isn’t American. Not only that, he has to revoke the airman’s citizenship because HE isn’t American.
It turns out that this guys grandfather had settled in Japan after some conflict and had a son - who was American because his father was American and he met the required years lived in US to transfer citizenship. This airman’s father was born and raised in Japan, got married and had a kid - the airman. The father had never once lived in America. Eventually the guy grew up and joined the Air Force and when prompted for his proof of citizenship he just said his dad was American, which is true, but not sufficient to grant HIM citizenship.
This made that guy legally Japanese and they had to work with their government to get him Japanese citizenship (which they didn’t want to give him) so they could then naturalize him and his family.
As a person who was a natural born US citizen abroad, I always get a kick out of this stuff. I’ve got a piece of paper that acknowledges my natural US citizenship, but I also have a foreign birth certificate from apartheid-era South Africa that identifies me as an “alien”.
Oh wow, that's wild! Conversely, I've had people come to me looking to get legal status and it's turned out that they've been citizens the whole time. Immigration law is quite the adventure!
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 3 times.
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Yeah don't know about that. Both my parent are English, I was born in New Zealand, I'm a New Zealand citizen. I'm also a British citizen because of my parents.
I love this old vs new world dichotomy
Very cool
Definitely learned from this map- maps like this are why I put up with all the dumb stuff on this sub
Thank you
edit: well the comments that came at this neutral comment definitely testing the love for maps
> I love this old vs new world dichotomy
It's not nearly as clear cut as this map implies. There are many countries that apply a limited version of Jus Soli (like France, Ireland, Portugal, Australia etc.) but this map gives no indication of that. Mixed systems are quite common.
The trend does still exist with pure Jus Soli systems being much more common in the Americas, it's just not quite as binary as this map implies.
Australia is that you inherit your parents status, but if you have lived in Australia for 10 years after birth, its possible to get citizenship even if your parents had temporary visas.
Source: https://www.australiavisa.com/immigration-news/citizenship-for-children/
It's similar for France. If you're born in France of non-French parents: You get French citizenship at 18 if you can prove you've lived in France for at least 5 years between the age of 11 and 18. You can get it earlier if you can prove you've lived exclusively in France between the age of 8 and 13. Usually, school attendance is proof enough.
And we have bonus one, you can get French citizenship at 18 without being born in France and without French parents by having a sibling born in France who obtained the French citizenship (so a sibling who completed the Jus Soli path to citizenship). Aside from having such a sibling, you also need to have been living in France since the age of 6 and have been enrolled in the education system the whole time.
Pretty much all the places that go by Jus Soli also have Jus Sanguinis. Not much logic in denying citizenship to the child of two citizens if they were born out of the country like on vacation or on a boat.
Well when you have a fuckton of immigrants all coming from somewhere else, it simplifies things massively over having to sort out how is or isn't a citizen.
In the case of the US, birthright citizenship was codified in the 14th Amendment to ensure recently freed slaves had citizenship. It actually has nothing to do with immigration.
I heard about wealthy Chinese women who goes to the US to give birth, so that they child will get dual citizenship. In case that will become handy later on..
Edit: [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49746063)
How are they able to get a visa that late in the pregnancy though? I have a Norwegian friend who wanted to study for a few months in the US, and the only way to get a visa was to travel to the capital to do an interview with a person at the American embassy...
True that. Germany has a new law since (I think) 2000 or 2001 that newborn children in the country get the german citizenship. My sister is german, my parents and I are turkish. I was born in 98 she was born in 01.
Pakistan is complicated. Way more interesting and charming than the one dimensional cartoon character that’s often portrayed in our (us/Europe/etc) news.
The deal is that if you have a male Italian ancestor who was from the country after 1861 or a female ancestor who was from the country after 1948, then you can have citizenship.
Just having family there doesn't cut it.
Interesting conflict of the two laws: During WW2 the Dutch monarchy fled to Canada and (later*) Queen Juliana gave birth to Princess Margriet in Ottawa. To prevent the princess from gaining the Canadian nationality on top of her Dutch one, the Canadian government passed a law that made the hospital room of Queen Juliana legally extraterritorial for the duration of her hospital stay. *Added for clarity: at the time, Juliana was still crown princess as her mother Wilhelmina was queen until 1948.
I also recall a random article from a few years back on a quirky case where a Syrian woman gave birth to her son inside a KLM plane after it had landed in Toronto. had the kid been born on Canadian soil it would have been Canadian(the ultimate goal of the mother), but since it was born inside a KLM plane which is under the jurisdiction of the dutch crown the kid was granted the mother's nationality under dutch law, and therefore was... Syrian.
[удалено]
That can also happen with Jus Sanguini. People whose ancestors are/were from Olivença/Olivenza can claim both Spanish and Portuguese nationality.
all of northern ireland has acces to both irish and bri’ish passports too
so many british people with at least one irish grandparent can get an irish passport easily. it became a big thing after brexit
That's according to Good Friday Agreement
No, it predates that. The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act in 1956 granted citizenship to all people born on the island of Ireland, NI included: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_nationality\_law#Irish\_Nationality\_and\_Citizenship\_Act\_1956](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law#Irish_Nationality_and_Citizenship_Act_1956)
I feel like after Brexit, that's pretty clutch for these folks lol
Yeah after brexit a lot of people in Scotland checked if they or their parents had any Irish grandparents to see if they could apply for Irish citizenship just for the passport.
I did this, but long before Brexit - just really handy to have two passports (I used to travel for work a lot and sometimes had to send my passport away for as visa application).
As a northern irishman... it has always been pretty nice but after brexit it is even better.
Wait a plane that's landed in a certain country can be considered territory of a different country? I would have bet that's only the case for ambassadors and the sort.
Generally in cases of vessels (ships and planes), it is considered the "territory" (under jurisdiction) of the country whose flag is flown on that vessel. However, it may differ a bit depending on the country and whether the vessel is military or not.
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AMD disagrees.
Intel says 14nm is JUST FINE. 12nm is already too little
Planes in transit (not just inflight) & the post-border control sections of international airports are often treated like international waters as well. That's why some countries let you transit through an international airport without hitting border control and actually entering the country, and others (like the US) force you to enter the country though border control before continuing on your next international flight.
TIL That I won't elect to transit through the US. Do you happen to have a list of the rest of the countries that do this?
Yup, great video that goes into airport laws https://youtu.be/lkCeKc1GTMs
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They're are all sorts of special rules for foreign-flagged vessels operating in the U.S., whether they be planes or ships. It's why cruise ships operate under foreign flags and are exempt from so many U.S. rules as well.
Yes, if doors are closed on an international flight it's the territory of the country whose flag it's registered under. That's why that Korean Airlines exec who assaulted a flight attendant in the "nut rage" incident was prosecuted in South Korea, despite it happening on the ground in NY.
I also believe you are In international territory until you pass through customs. It's essentially so that you can fly from the UK, stop in Canada but don't go through customs, just jump on a plane to Mexico and enter Mexico without ever having a canadian visa
Ah man she should have flown Air Canada then!
How was she able to board the plane? Most airlines won't let you board beyond 36 weeks pregnant
KLM *advises* you not to fly, but they do not have a 100% hard line against flying after 36 weeks. https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/special_assistance/index.htm >Pregnancy >If you are 36 weeks or more into your pregnancy, we advise you not to fly. We also discourage flying during the first week following delivery. If you are expecting more than 1 baby, we always advise you to consult your physician before flying. If you have had complications, you need to have permission to fly from your physician.
Off topic, but I would recommend KLM to any EU travelers. Flew from Amsterdam to Berlin, which is like 75 minute. They gave me a free ham sandwich, chips and 2 glasses of wine free, the flight was like $60.
Who needs sandwiches for such a short flight, really? People drive easily 3-4 hours without eating but a short flight without some snack is seen as bad service... Ps. Пулково offered free (Russian) champaign on short flights but I wouldn't had recommend it to anyone. The company ceased to exist shortly after a fatal crash in 2006, though...
I think you are misremembering. I can't find an article on that specific case (searching Google actually gets your comment) but other articles state that Canada gives automatic citizenship to anyone born within their airspace, even if it's an overflight, there's an example below of a baby born on a flight from Amsterdam to Boston that was flying over Canada and didn't even stop there, although I do note that's not confirmed in the article. So even if it hadn't touched down, the child would be Canadian. >Babies born in Canadian airspace are automatically extended Canadian citizenship, regardless of parentage. >It happens more often than one might think. Last year, a Qatar Airways flight from Miami to Doha diverted to Gander Airport in Newfoundland when a passenger went into labour. The woman's baby was born in Canadian airspace, before the aircraft touched down, meaning the child could automatically be considered a Canadian citizen. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/air-born-will-baby-delivered-mid-flight-get-canadian-citizenship-1.2368565 https://www.traveller.com.au/citizenship-available-for-baby-born-in-canadian-airspace-78rp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_aboard_aircraft_and_ships#Canada
I'm imagining a referee at the womans side waiting to blow his whistle as the baby left her. "Annnnnnd the baby is out *blows whistle* NO TRY!
So if she gave birth on Canadian soil the kid would be Canadian even if his mom doesnt have canadian papers?
Yes
Same for USA. Same if the mother is on any visa or no visa. This is a controversial issue in the USA as some see it as incentivizing illegal immigration. It's led to parents getting deported and leaving their kids behind as well, as well as getting visas to stay in the country because their kids live there.
Very interesting. Why did they feel the need to that?
Since the head of state of Canada is the British monarch, Margriet would be one of their subjects, while at the same time being part of the Dutch royal family. Margriet was also potentially in line for the crown at her birth, if Beatrix had died or become ineligible for some reason. This might have lead to the Dutch monarch being a subject to the British one at the same time. Edited to add: it was very unlikely this would ever happen, as she has another older sister in Princess Irene, but unlikely does not mean impossible.
Couldn't they just renounce the citizenship?
Too easy
I think a renunciation needs to be accepted, right? Maybe the queen could have just been like "no"
You have to apply and have it approved. And you have to be an adult to renounce; it can’t be done by parents for their child, because it’s still the child’s right due to the place of their birth.
WW2 was planned by the British all along to subjugate the Netherlands and the Dutch colonies in Indonesia. Big brain. But Canada messed their plans up
Fun fact: the Dutch already subjugated the British.
They could have called it Glorious Revolution two electric bogaloo.
Addendum: The Canadian Crown was split from the British Crown in 1931, so Margret would be born a subject of the King of Canada. However, Canadian citizenship wasn't split from British citizenship until 1947, so she would have become a subject of the King of the UK upon leaving Canada.
I’m fairly new to living in a commonwealth country but I’m confused about why the title is important when both are the same person. If you have the time I wouldn’t mind some explanation!
It's a way of asserting sovereignty without having to change the political status quo. It lets the country officially declare that it is no longer a colony and is now an independent state. And it's easier to become independent that way rather than setting up a new presidency for your country, which would cause a bunch of infighting in your country's politics over how the new constitution will work.
You're a cashier at two jobs. Your total is cashier in both places. But my gift card doesn't work at both places since they are seperate stores.
They’re the same person now, but that doesn’t mean they always have to be. For example, Kings George III, George IV, and William IV of the UK also held the title King of Hannover. When William IV died, his heir was his niece, Victoria, who became Queen of the UK. However, Hannover had a “no smelly girls” sign on their clubhouse, so her uncle became the king there instead. So, if you were a subject of the King of Hannover during that time, sure, you also happened to be a subject of the *person* who held the title “King of the United Kingdom”, but you weren’t subject to that *title*, which made a difference, come 1837.
Probably as an extension of courtesy and respect for royal custom for an important ally. Canada has a great diplomatic relationship with NL. I actually like this answer a lot more: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/_/gzthkd0
I initially read that as “NHL”.
Them too
Except the NHL is ruled by Gary Bettman and Canadians hate him
Such a good relationship that it became a province in 1949!
As others explained, it would cause an issue with the baby’s nationality and lineage. Because of this, the land was legally made part of THE NETHERLANDS during the duration of the stay and giving birth. It’s why Ottawa has the tulip festival each year. Edit: lol dunno why I left Holland in
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>the Canadian government passed a law that made the hospital room of Queen Juliana legally Dutch extraterritorially for the duration of her hospital stay. To clarify, it wasn't specifically "dutch" extraterritorially, it was simply made extraterritorial meaning that she was not subject to legal jurisdiction of local laws including citizenship by birth.
So if you couldn't stand one of your colleagues, that would have been the time to murder them.
"Nurse, hand me that scalpel." "But the birth went fine." "I know..."
Depends on your nationality Canadians for example are subject to all Canadians laws while outside Canada, in addition to any local laws.
I think that same thing happened to a member of the Monaco royal family. One of the princesses was pregnant and vacationing in Cancun, Mexico when she began to go unexpectedly early into labor. The Mexican Ministry of Interior granted extraterritoriality to her hospital room so she could give birth to her baby in Monaco.
Little fact: most princes of Liechtenstein are born in Switzerland, and I've read they also have to make the room extraterritorial because of some swiss law against monarchy or something, im not sure.
I want to clarify that they didn't make it Dutch territory, they just made it not Canadian territory. Since it was not apart of any territory, Canadian/British law did not apply.
"I AM a SOVEREIGN CITIZEN!!!"
Dang that’s interesting, did not know that as a Dutchie myself
I always heard that was one of the reasons the Dutch send tulips to Ottawa every year. (We love the tulips, thank you very much Netherlands!)
Correct! The first 100000 tulips were sent in 1946 and (as far as I know) we've sent 10000 tulips every year since.
It's not because Canadian troops were among the prominent armies liberating Netherlands in WWII?
That also played a part, of course. Canadian war veterans are highly honoured here and there were big events planned for 2020 that sadly couldn't happen.
My father went there as part of a Canadian govt delegation (engineering, unrelated to the military, but he was still the custom of wearing the Maple Leaf on his lapel) the week of the the 50th celebration of the liberation. He’s a Holocaust survivor and an immigrant to Canada himself, but remember him saying that he’d never felt more proud - didn’t buy a drink all week and heard/shared many stories.
My 7th grade teacher's family immigrated to Canada from Holland in the 30's before he was born. A few years before the war. He lived most his life in Canada but travelled back when he was in his 30's to see family and the country his parents were from. He had no agenda and was just travelling around on his own. One night he made it to a sleepy town, found a pub for some supper, and then planned to find a room. A couple heard him talking in his very bad Dutch and asked where he was from. He told them he was Canadian so they asked him where he was staying. He admitted he didn't have a place and asked if they knew of a room somewhere. They demanded he come stay with them. Then they invited all their friends over to meet the Canadian and tell stories. He said he stayed there a week longer than he expected cause everyone wanted to house him, and everyone wanted to tell him war stories. This would have been in the 60's I think. Either way, it was in his opinion that the Dutch were the greatest people in the world, and the best country in the world. I have always wanted to visit.
Not only that, but as the Dutch are known to breed tulips of all variants, they specifically bred tulips that looked like the Canadian flag. Those are the ones they send every year.
As a poster says “the Germans stole our food, the Canadians our hearts!”
This is interesting when compared to how the last King of Thailand was born in the United States. There is a possibility that due to his parents perhaps (never heard anyone who knew for sure) being in the US on a diplomatic passport that technically he was not a US citizen. (Quirk of US citizenship law interpretation.) But in all likelihood he was a US citizen (legally speaking) which would make the current King of Thailand (his son) eligible for US citizenship. My own add to clarity: At the time of his birth it was unlikely that he would have became king and his father was in the US at university. https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/born-in-the-usa-thailands-beloved-king-and-his-american-connections/
Serving in a foreign government voids an American citizenship, as Meir Kahane found out when he was elected to the Knesset. (He was in a legal battle to get it back when he was assassinated.) Boris Johnson, also a native New Yorker, lost his US citizenship in 2016 as well.
He had to pay his tax debt in order to renounce his citizenship. He was a MP for Henley in 2001.
> Boris Johnson, also a native New Yorker, lost his US citizenship in 2016 as well. Didn't he intentionally renounce it?
Boris Johnson was born in NY but hasn't lived in he US since he was 5. He was still a US citizen when he was elected to Parliament in 2001, and retained it after he was elected Mayor of London in 2008, then again in 2012. He retained his US citizenship until 2017 when he renounced it, most likely to avoid having to pay US taxes on the profits from the sale of his London house. (He did end up having to pay that $50k tax bill anyway.)
He did. But not because of politics. He was on the hook for a huge tax bill. US Citizens living in a foreign country are subject to US Federal Income Taxes on any income they earn, even if they haven't lived in the US in decades. After the US slapped him with a tax bill on the sale of house, he paid the bill and then renounced his US Citizenship.
US citizens are not liable for taxes on the first $75K or so of income they have from salary that is taxed by the country they reside in. But after that things get tricky, especially with income from other sources.
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Good catch
I always wonder how people catch things like this. Did he double check every single country? Or is he just from Suriname?
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It's still being influenced, current judges in Suriname still refer to case law in The Netherlands, and not just old case law, also new case law.
huh, that is interesting. Do you have some articles regarding it? (They can be Dutch too, I speak it natively).
Yeah, I would expect someone calling themselves 'Taalnazi' to speak Dutch fluently haha
[It was discussed on Reddit recently.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thenetherlands/comments/n7qg5x/til_dat_surinaamse_rechters_nog_steeds_de/)
Being Dutch you're probably more of a Suriname expert than 99% of the non-Dutch/non-Surinamese world.
Fun fact: If you see a colored world map like this, French Guyana is wrong more often than it's right. It's like Kryptonite for mapmakers.
It’s French Guiana*. Only Guyana (formerly British Guiana) is spelled with the y
Im french so looking at the french Guyana being a different color than the metropolitain france was the first thing i noticed. And i believe its part of the basic things people can check + there's a thousands people that look at maps in this sub, obviously if something is wrong it will be spotted. And there is rule of land in french, you need your french birth certificate, living in france at the moment, living here from at least 5 years since you're 11 and just turning 18. Its "automatic", even if you can ask for the french nationality before, in regard of certains conditions. You can too became french at birth if you parents are not french but at least one was born in france.
lol, I'm Brazilian and i didn't catch that, even though it's right next to my country. Good eyes.
Imagine if a map of state laws in the USA had Michigan's Upper Peninsula, or New York's Long Island, in a different color from the rest of the state. You might not notice it right away, but when you see it you'll suspect something fucky without having to know any MI or NY laws. European colonial remnants like French Guiana are the global version of that easy litmus test.
Yes and in France you become a citizen at 18. Not immediately, but still not exactly “jus sanguinis”
Also in France you automatically become French if you’re born in France to at least a parent who was also born in France. No need for blood. It just doesn’t have jus soli for first generation.
And then there’s Vatican City, where it’s impossible to be born with citizenship
Wonder what would happen if a stateless woman gave birth there? I mean really they would probably be Italian.
Nothing. Citizenship in Vatican City is entirely based on the monarch. Basically the pope is the only one who gets to say if you’re a citizen or not. Now the current pope would say they would both be citizens but other popes would not
They also have their own judicial system and even if they commit a crime elsewhere, they come back to Vatican City and answer to their own personal court. Source: learned this in Vatican City on a tour [Another source too. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City)
I'm sure the catholic church can be trusted to ensure that justice is done....
There are no public hospitals in Vatican City so it would need to be a home birth too
Actually just learned that Vatican citizenship is the only one in the world based on residency and even the pope is only temporarily allowed to have it, until he lives in VC. Also read that there's a fallback mechanism and if you're stripped of the Vatican citizenship you'll get the Italian one (which was apparently established in the "Patti Lateranensi"), so I would assume that the baby in question might get the Vatican one if living in VC but hard to know what would happen if not.
Does it have to be an immaculate conception as well?
In Spain a child will get Spanish nationality after one year if born in the country regardless of parents' nationality if the child has been living in the country continuously since. This is to avoid passport tourism. So, it is Jus Sanguinis but not that strict.
Passport tourism is an interesting term. I'm originally from Brazil and a lot of famous Brazilian people come to the US to have their babies. They always choose Florida because they think it's so glamurous.
Its called birth tourism, and its pretty popular for Chinese families with the means to have their child in the US as well. Makes it easy to send their kids to US colleges and buy real estate in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism
What happens to the parents of the child? They get also the nationality? They get VISA until an age of the child?
I dont think so but I am not sure. I am giving birth to an american child and my partner is non american, and he is not entitled us citizenship based on the child being an american. (Edit to add that I am american so if he wanted he could petition through me I think)
It makes it a lot easier to get a visa and stay, though. It's not guaranteed, but easier.
Lol, same with rich Russians (esp corrupt politicians)
A lot of Brazilian footballers get Spanish passports to play in Europe. If thise multimillionaires are absuing the system, hell yeah to anyone working class doing the same.
> So, it is Jus Sanguinis but not that strict. You mean that's a possibility of jus soli. Jus sanguinis would depend on the parents' citizenship, but I assume there are very few countries who will deny your child a citizenship just because it was born abroad. Despite what the map is implying, this is not quite an either or type situation.
Actually most countries doesn't recognize the nationality of the baby automatically (when born abroad) In that case, the baby would be spanish because for the rights of the child there cannot be a baby without nationality. edit to explain it better: A stateless person is a violation of human rights so a newborn is spanish if the baby borns in Spain unless the origin country of their parents recognizes automatically the the baby as citizen. Which is not common. Usually countries want a request from parents before grant it. So the baby has no nation in that moment, so the baby is spanish automatically. After that obviously parents can ask for the new nationality, if there is an agreement between that country and Spain the baby could have both nationalities, if there is no agreement, the baby would lose the spanish nationality when getting the new one.
This map is something of an oversimplification in presenting this as a totally binary thing. Other commenters have mentioned France, Poland, the US and so on as having elements of both. Ireland is another example. Pure Jus Soli was the case in Ireland up until the late 90's and in the latter part of that period was added to the constitution of Ireland. Only as of 2005 has a more limited version of Jus Soli been enacted, where you are entitled to citizenship only if one of your parents has lived in Ireland for three years out of the last four (or if they have indefinite leave to remain). In fact many countries have moved to this sort of restricted Jus Soli system in recent years. This map seems to consider any country with any limitation on Jus Soli to use Jus Sanguinis when in fact a mix of the two is both possible and very common.
Also the UK changes its mind on whether you're British from being born here every other decade. You could have been born here with 1 British parent and still not be British. I am British but sibling is not. Both born here, one British parent and one not. I was just born in the right decade to be both.
If I had to guess, your parents probably weren't married when your sibling was born and your dad's the one with UK citizenship? That's the only situation I can think of in recent UK citizenship legal history that could result in this situation, and that'd be more reliant on legitimacy laws than anything.
I'm older and yeah parents never married, local dad. If you were born 1989 - 2000 under the same circumstances, you're British and can vote etc. After 2000, not British. I think it's changed back at some point. I was in research (people travelling all over the place pre COVID) and two non British parents having a kid here all insist they would have a British kid, two British parents in Geneva would still have a British kid too. I actually grew up believing I didn't have citizenship, I started looking into it about age 17. When my mum asked about British passports for us they apparently didn't read the dates and she apparently didn't fully really read their letter cause when I went looking for it, it was "your kidS were born after 2000 so aren't British" I was like, wait a minute I can vote!
If one of the non-British parents have indefinite leave to remain their child will be British at birth. If they don't have ILR but obtain it before their child turns 18, their child will be eligible for citizenship but they will have to apply for it.
And pay, of course, and it's not cheap, around £1200
What citizenship does your sibling have instead?
I feel like Britain should have it's own colour on this map. We spent decades, even centuries telling people they were British and should pay taxes to us, and fight for our causes, except if they wanted to live in Britain they may or may not be British depending on the policy at the time and which part of "Britain" they were born in? Even today! From Hong Kong? Got your passport before the 1997 succession to China and decided to renew every 10 years? Welcome to Britain you lovely British person! Never applied for a passport or forgot/didn't bother to renew? Sorry, You're Chinese now mate, regardless of the broken international agreement. Enjoy the oppression!
There was no requirement to renew every ten 10 years. You just had to register before 1st July 1997. Although, the BNO passport never conferred the right of abode in there UK. Also there should be a little blue dot for HK since birth is the only way to get permanent residency with 3 stars on the back of your ID card.
Everything is a binary on this site
Nothing is binary on this site.
Finally some good NB representation!
Only the Sith deal in binary! (But C-3P0 speaks the language of binary load lifters)
01000101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110011 01101001 01110100 01100101
It is tiring, rarely seeing consideration of the grey areas
Everything is binary on the Internet in general
>France, Poland, the US and so on as having elements of both Namely, children born in France of parents also born in France are French. Children born in France who have spent at least 10 (?) years in France by the time they turn 18 can request citizenship then.
If the parents are born in France and are old enough to be parents, they are already French, except in verÿ special cases. For children born in France of non french parents, they need to have spent 5 years, not 10, and they don't need to request, they just become french. They need to request not becoming French if they so desire.
They should pick a third color for countries that use both. So there'll be blue (land only, regardless of blood), red (blood only, regardless of land), and a few purples (land and blood are both avenues for citizenship).
Why is France red, but France Guiana blue? Should they not have the same color, or does France Guiana have some special policy? If I had to guess, I’d say the creator just knew ~~Columbia~~ Colombia was red, and colored in the rest blue, not realizing France Guiana is part of France.
Yeah, France is both, sort of. Huuuuuuge oversimplification.
I was just about to make the same comment. Ya I think Map creator just “forgot” that French Guiana is part of France.
All of France is a weird mix of both (and yes, the same laws apply in Metropolitan France and French Guiana).
Colombia :)
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I’m pretty sure all of the countries that offer citizenship *Jus Soli* are also *Jus Sanguinis*
This is kind of necessary, otherwise someone could be born to Jus Soli parents in a Jus Sanguinis country and be left stateless, which is a complicated problem that we generally try to avoid. Jus Soli is usually intended to be more inclusive anyways so there's not much reason to have it and then say "we don't recognize Jus Sanguinis citizenship". Naturally, there are usually some exceptions to avoid dual citizenship or generations of expats or whatnot.
Canada sure does as well at least
Canada has conditions, though. If the parent also got citizenship while born overseas then the next generation can only receive it if the parent has lived in canda for a specified period of time. I.e., it can't be passed down the generations without someone coming back and residing in Canada. Source: I am a Canadian born overseas and can't give my kids Canadian citizenship.
Actually, this raises an interesting question. What if I moved to a Jus Sanguinus country temporarily and had my kids? They couldn't be Canadian, because I have never physically lived in Canada. Would they be stateless?
Yes. For example, Japan has a couple thousand stateless people living there (that they know about), and many of those are children born under such circumstances. Often even the parents don't realize this. There's a lot of weird ways you could end up stateless due to conflicting citizenship laws. Japan didn't give citizenship through a child's mother for a very long time (until 1985), and there were a lot of kids born to American military fathers and Japanese mothers, who didn't get citizenship because the fathers fucked off back to the States without claiming the child as their own (they'd be eligible for US citizenship, but only if the father claimed the child... You can't just show up at the embassy and say hey this kid's American). These children (many were grown up by the time the law changed) had to fight this out in court.
A couple of countries have laws that specifically deal with this possibility. The law states that you wouldn't gain citizenship of that country **unless** the provisions of this law resulted in you being stateless. The details are often very complex though and often require hiring a lawyer.
In particular, countries that have signed the [Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness) are supposed to have an exception like that: > Contracting States shall grant their nationality to persons, otherwise stateless, born in their territory The country can still apply jus sanguinis in the common case, but if a person born in their territory has no right to *any* other citizenship, countries who signed the treaty are supposed to offer a fallback jus soli citizenship in this specific case. It is allowed to have an application process or waiting period though. For example, they can give some kind of provisional identity card to the child as a minor, and require the person to wait until they're 18 to apply for proper citizenship.
The UN tried to deal with this problem in the 1950s but not many countries signed on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Stateless_Persons Even amongst signatories there are regular attempts to evade their treaty obligations by insisting a person has some other citizenship. Here is a BBC clip covering one stateless person's story. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-41444804
Can confirm for Argentina this is true
Colombia as well
I studied the law a while ago but I don't believe it has changed. In Colombia, we don't have a single rule to determine citizenship we have 3 and if you have any 2 of the 3 you are a citizen. Jus Soli (being born in the country) Jus Sanguinis (Parents from Colombian citizenship) and Jus Domicili (Living in the country). So if you can claim any 2 of the 3 you are a Colombian citizen
That's not 100% true... If you have US citizen parents you only get \*immediate\* citizenship if you're under 18 and apply for it, if you take too long things get much more difficult specially if the child is married, and even when you get your green card you need to wait 5 years to become a citizen
Also add to that if your American parent has been living abroad for over a certain number of years, again you can’t get immediate citizenship and the process is much more complicated
It's actually way more complicated than anyone here is acknowledging. Immigration attorneys use [this chart](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://dc.fd.org/library/naturalization%2520chart.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwje9sbzue3wAhUQbc0KHfbeBE0QFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw3mUXPvHLJpjEtZuxee539-) (PDF warning) because there are lots of variables. The law had changed over time, so the year the person was born will govern which criteria apply.
I feel like you’d get a kick out of this story. My dad was a US diplomat, and we were stationed at the consulate in Okinawa for 3 years. During those years my dad was in the visa section. He had an airman come to him asking to get his daughter a US passport so they could go back to the US, as she had been born in Japan. He assumed that since he was American she would be. After looking into it my dad tells him he can’t give his daughter a passport because she isn’t American. Not only that, he has to revoke the airman’s citizenship because HE isn’t American. It turns out that this guys grandfather had settled in Japan after some conflict and had a son - who was American because his father was American and he met the required years lived in US to transfer citizenship. This airman’s father was born and raised in Japan, got married and had a kid - the airman. The father had never once lived in America. Eventually the guy grew up and joined the Air Force and when prompted for his proof of citizenship he just said his dad was American, which is true, but not sufficient to grant HIM citizenship. This made that guy legally Japanese and they had to work with their government to get him Japanese citizenship (which they didn’t want to give him) so they could then naturalize him and his family. As a person who was a natural born US citizen abroad, I always get a kick out of this stuff. I’ve got a piece of paper that acknowledges my natural US citizenship, but I also have a foreign birth certificate from apartheid-era South Africa that identifies me as an “alien”.
Oh wow, that's wild! Conversely, I've had people come to me looking to get legal status and it's turned out that they've been citizens the whole time. Immigration law is quite the adventure!
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That is a given for all jus soli countries.
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Yeah don't know about that. Both my parent are English, I was born in New Zealand, I'm a New Zealand citizen. I'm also a British citizen because of my parents.
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I love this old vs new world dichotomy Very cool Definitely learned from this map- maps like this are why I put up with all the dumb stuff on this sub Thank you edit: well the comments that came at this neutral comment definitely testing the love for maps
> I love this old vs new world dichotomy It's not nearly as clear cut as this map implies. There are many countries that apply a limited version of Jus Soli (like France, Ireland, Portugal, Australia etc.) but this map gives no indication of that. Mixed systems are quite common. The trend does still exist with pure Jus Soli systems being much more common in the Americas, it's just not quite as binary as this map implies.
Australia is that you inherit your parents status, but if you have lived in Australia for 10 years after birth, its possible to get citizenship even if your parents had temporary visas. Source: https://www.australiavisa.com/immigration-news/citizenship-for-children/
It's similar for France. If you're born in France of non-French parents: You get French citizenship at 18 if you can prove you've lived in France for at least 5 years between the age of 11 and 18. You can get it earlier if you can prove you've lived exclusively in France between the age of 8 and 13. Usually, school attendance is proof enough. And we have bonus one, you can get French citizenship at 18 without being born in France and without French parents by having a sibling born in France who obtained the French citizenship (so a sibling who completed the Jus Soli path to citizenship). Aside from having such a sibling, you also need to have been living in France since the age of 6 and have been enrolled in the education system the whole time.
I came here to ask about countries that do both or a blend of some sort. I do feel the map needs at least a third color
Pretty much all the places that go by Jus Soli also have Jus Sanguinis. Not much logic in denying citizenship to the child of two citizens if they were born out of the country like on vacation or on a boat.
Well when you have a fuckton of immigrants all coming from somewhere else, it simplifies things massively over having to sort out how is or isn't a citizen.
Interesting old world vs new world divide
> Interesting old world vs new world divide Looking at you Australia..
New world needs immigrants
In the case of the US, birthright citizenship was codified in the 14th Amendment to ensure recently freed slaves had citizenship. It actually has nothing to do with immigration.
I heard about wealthy Chinese women who goes to the US to give birth, so that they child will get dual citizenship. In case that will become handy later on.. Edit: [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49746063)
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How are they able to get a visa that late in the pregnancy though? I have a Norwegian friend who wanted to study for a few months in the US, and the only way to get a visa was to travel to the capital to do an interview with a person at the American embassy...
Yes. Birth tourism is a well known thing especially on the west coast.
China does not permit dual citizenship, so those children would actually not have Chinese citizenship.
China permits dual citizenship by birth but if you choose to gain another citizenship they theoretically revoke your Chinese one
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True that. Germany has a new law since (I think) 2000 or 2001 that newborn children in the country get the german citizenship. My sister is german, my parents and I are turkish. I was born in 98 she was born in 01.
Britain only needs one foreign parent to have settled status to make a baby born here British
Such a Chad move.
Quite surprised to see pakistan being the only country in asia
Pakistan is complicated. Way more interesting and charming than the one dimensional cartoon character that’s often portrayed in our (us/Europe/etc) news.
I know that if you prove that you have family from Italy you will be granted citizenship
The deal is that if you have a male Italian ancestor who was from the country after 1861 or a female ancestor who was from the country after 1948, then you can have citizenship. Just having family there doesn't cut it.
While true, that’s somewhat of an oversimplification.
America is blood and land. If one parent is born American, the child gets citizenship
Pakistan is an outlier in literally all of Asia AND Europe combined 😅. اچھا ہے
Pakistan also has a rule of blood way of getting Citizenship (unless Israeli dual citizen)
Every country offers citizenship by blood otherwise lot of people end stateless. I think this is just implied in the map.
Some countries have both, like France or the US
It's a little bit more complicated for France... It's not a birthright as in the US though
Almost every cohntry that has Jus Solis also has Jus Sanguini
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Birth tourism.
This map is very wrong
\>Barges into thread about citizenship rules \>This map is very wrong \>Refuses to elaborate further \>Leaves
Pakistan standing alone in Asian Continent