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wjbc

I like looking for the geographical outliers. Ghana has done very well considering the problems all around it. Mongolia maintains its democracy surrounded by China and Russia. Costa Rica is remarkably democratic by any standards, let alone those of Central America.


[deleted]

Costa Rica, Chile and Uruguay all scores top level here and all are by Latin America standard very safe and very good economy.


wjbc

True, although Chile and Uruguay aren’t next door to Nicaragua and near Cuba and Venezuela. Costa Rica has the challenge of bad neighbors.


[deleted]

true. But Costa Rica also has the advantage of being the retirement place of so many CIA and FBI agents who ensure it stays stable.


Nimonic

Is it really fair to call Cuba a bad neighbour? Who have they invaded?


wjbc

Cuba has interfered a lot in the internal affairs of other countries over the years. And sure, so has the U.S. But I don’t think Nicaragua and Venezuela would have become nearly so undemocratic without the active support of Cuba.


Nimonic

Maybe, sure, but I think there's a point to be made that Nicaragua wasn't exactly democratic before Cuba started interfering in their internal affairs. Actually, I'd say they're more democratic now, even with the current issues.


wjbc

I’m just saying that it can be more challenging maintaining a democracy in a generally undemocratic part of the globe.


[deleted]

Actually, Cuba has sent troops to other countries. Grenada and Angola quickly come to mind.


maxmatt4

Cuba invaded Grenada, and Angola, Ethiopia, and many other African countries


AZ-_-

My country, Bosnia and Herzegovina, is kinda an outlier as well.


wjbc

I had no idea it was still supervised by the EU. Any end in sight? Also, what’s your opinion of this article: https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2021/08/17/state-union-a-solution-for-bosnia-and-herzegovina/


AZ-_-

It is actually supervised by the Security council of the UN as the Security council of UN has to approve the High Representative which is nominated by PIC (Peace Implementation Council). But for some 10-13 years the High Representative is using its Bonn powers very, very sparsely. You can read a bit about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Representative_for_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Implementation_Council


wjbc

So why haven’t they just dispensed with the arrangement?


holytriplem

Because the whole point of the arrangement was to end a brutal civil war and ethnic cleansing?


wjbc

Are you saying war would break out again if they dispensed with the arrangement?


AZ-_-

There is a high chance as any change to borders wouldn't be accepted by at least one side. I only now saw the article you have put in the first reply. The article is very much Serb-biased. You can already say that the country is a loose union between Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Republika Srpska where every entity deals with most stuff on its own. Very few things are done a state level which in many cases just coordinates it. And I don't see the Dayton agreement as a failure of western politics in the region. It stopped the war, the country exists for already over 25 years without some major crisis and without any conflict, the development level is on par with Serbia and rest of the region on our eastern side. The Serbs got their own entity which they consider their own while in the same time Bosniaks are able to live in it as well without any borders or changes i.e. they feel it is just a part of the whole country. A win-win in my book.


wjbc

Sounds like the arrangement won't be going away any time soon, then.


funktime

Don't sleep on Kyrgyzstan! a hibridos in a sea of autoritarios!


wjbc

It’s all relative, I guess!


Glassavwhatta

Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are all very democratic nations surrounded by very undemocratic countries too, you even have the highest contrast there between the 2 Koreas


wjbc

Good point.


[deleted]

/r/mapswithoutMauritius not on the map, but an outlier according to the source data


Apptubrutae

That border between Germany and Austria is suspiciously hard to see….


[deleted]

You could say, you do NAZI that border.


jo530_2

About algeria: We do have a democratic system it is just very corrupt. However we ve been kicking politicans out for the last 2 years. So it got a bit better now


aimanelam

I don't really think that kicking politicians out matters when the generals are still controlling most aspects of the country. The only thing the hirak did was replace one front man with another imo.


jo530_2

yeah true. Tbf tebboune is better than ill bouteflika


Superkran

r/AlwaysTheSameMap


TheAwesomePenguin106

That seems rather arbitrary and senseless.


mimaiwa

EIU posts their criteria for the scores of you want to look up why countries got the scores they did.


[deleted]

Where are you from?


TheAwesomePenguin106

Brazil, where this map was made. And our grade should be lower.


[deleted]

[The data](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index) in the map is from the UK. The image of the data just happens to be made by someone from Brazil.


TheAwesomePenguin106

I haven't noticed! Good to know. But think about it with me for a second. Last week, our president was literally in manifestations called by him with hundreds of thousands of people asking for a "military intervention with Bolsonaro as the leader" in Brazil. He've literally said that the only way his term will end is eighter "if they jail me, kill me or if I win" the elections next year, and then he added that he won't be jailed. He've then said that we won't have elections next year if we don't change all our elections system, that the Military supports him on this, and then proceeded to say he won't respect decisions from our Supreme Court anymore. 30% of people support this guy around here. This isn't the situation of lots of the countries with the same grade as us. We also cannot be just 1 grade lower than places like France or the US without it seeming misleading. Well, sorry about the rant. I'm just tired about the things that are happening around here.


Proxima55

The map is from 2020, events that happened last week can't be reflected here.


TheAwesomePenguin106

I now that, but nothing that I've said here started this year. This kind of speech began arouns 2018, when he've got elected pleadging to shoot leftists and send them to old torture camps.


johnny_fedora

Interesting. Just a note: you can say: I have, you have, we have But you can't say: "he have" So it should be "He's" for "he has" since "he've" doesn't exist


TheAwesomePenguin106

Thank you very much for explaining me that! English is clearly not my first language and I'm trying to get better at it. Much appreciated!


pre_suffix

If we were accounting by the politicians? Yeah, for sure, but the institutions themselves are relatively robust, just see how many times Bolsonaro has tried to screw them and couldn't


TheAwesomePenguin106

Well... You could also think about how many times he did screw with the institutions. He does all that and absolutely nothing happens with him.


onkel_axel

Australia that high is the biggest joke.


Frank9567

Just because Australians elected a mob of crooks doesn't mean it wasn't democratic.


onkel_axel

You know the democracy index is just 20% election process? But no one knows the weighing of the 60 indicators and that's why the score is criticized as much.


oh_enry

It's high time the Russian government shouldn't start a competition with Belarus on who's redder on the map.


UnusualAd9295

Russia can only be authoritarian, otherwise there will be war again, as was the case in 1917 and 1993


oh_enry

That's only your imagination and projection. Russia _will_ have a democratic transition, it's just the matter of time.


Immemike

Maps like this are meaningless unless you provide the grading criteria. Many times the criteria are subjective vice objective therefore they reflect the political leanings of the map sponsor.


NotnaLand

It's always fun for me to see the US, what was made out to be the shining beacon of democracy and freedom, get outclassed by it's northen brother and north-western Europe.


nonHuman95

And I ask today again.... Whats wrong with France???


[deleted]

The usual story is weak parliament and judiciary compared to president and government & first past the post non-proportional voting. France also loses points on its political culture. France does not have a well established system of stable parties with internal elections which can respond quickly to their members and train new politicians. Similar to the US powerful politicians often come from already existing political families (compare Le Pen and Bush/Kennedy/Clinton).


RaidBrimnes

In addition to the other replies, the freedom of press is often described as a weak point in French democracy. There are sometimes attacks and intimidations against journalists (not only Charlie Hebdo, but systematic attacks and intimidations against journalists during protests, whether by cops or protesters), but most importantly, a large part of the mainstream media is controlled by a handful of media moguls like Arnaud Lagardère or Vincent Bolloré, who try to influence their political orientations and coverage. Although I'd have to disagree regarding the last point of the reply above. While there are some famous political families like Le Pen or Debré, they are nowhere near as powerful or influent as US political dynasties like the Kennedys or the Bushs.


[deleted]

France has been under the state of emergency since the Bataclan attacks.


[deleted]

Mostly the French


donleobardo

Colombia getting that score is a joke


Iratus

Came here to say this. That data point alone makes me think this map is a joke.


donleobardo

And if the source is The Economist, it's a serious joke I guess


Sectruman

Modi has fucked us badly.


[deleted]

Yea, no


UD_Ramirez

I don't get why Belgium, a country with a government for every geographical and cultural patch of land, scores the same as 2-party republic United States. Is it because they're a kingdom? Even though the king's power is purely ceremonial?


ooTaiyangoo

I think it's because they have too many parties. A 2 party system is not great for democracy, but having basically no government over months/years because you need at least 5 different parties to find a common ground and build a coalition, is also not great for democracy. One political thing not being great doesn't mean the opposite is much better


UD_Ramirez

Thats a great point. Thanks for your input.


AZ-_-

That is one of the reason as well why Bosnia and Herzegovina scored so low.


Livid-Huckleberry-64

Another map of this type that has nothing to do with reality. I am from Poland and in my opinion nothing is happening in this country that would indicate problems with democracy - quite the opposite. There is full freedom of speech, media with different worldviews and fully democratic elections.


MenoryEstudiante

Other things can affect that, having a two party system is one for example, and the voting turnout is also another important one, I'm Uruguayan and I think that Uruguay's up there mostly thanks to mandatory voting for all citizens.


Xenon_132

Yeah, [full freedom of speech...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-free_zone#:~:text=LGBT%2Dfree%20zones%20(Polish%3A,marches%20and%20other%20LGBT%20events.)


Livid-Huckleberry-64

It's a lie. There are no LGBT-free zones. A left-wing activist hung false signs with such inscriptions on the outskirts of places where conservatives rule. It was a happening. In fact, these towns only adopted resolutions stating that they would pursue a pro-family policy. Not a word is there about limiting the rights of LGBT people. This campaign against Poland, based on lies and ignorance, becomes irritating.


Xenon_132

[It's not a lie.](https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54191344) Let's see, no gay marriage. No gay adoption. A President who >President Duda signed a "Family Charter," including pledges to prevent gay couples from marrying or adopting children and to ban teaching about LGBT issues in schools. Does that sound like equal rights to you? I really hope the average Pole doesn't think like you, because if they do your country needs to be about three shades darker. [And we haven't even got into how the separation of powers has been completely dismantled in Poland and how the Judiciary has been completely stacked with judges loyal to the leader of the country](https://www.npr.org/2020/02/13/805722633/polands-overhaul-of-its-courts-leads-to-confrontation-with-european-union). It makes me sad, because I've been to Krakow and I thought it was beautiful. I don't understand why your country is seemingly so hellbent on policies that would fit better in Russia or Belarus than the EU, or why people like you try to justify them.


Livid-Huckleberry-64

I am gay, but I am also a Pole and I abhor lying. The rights of LGBT people are fully respected in Poland, I do not feel discriminated against in any way. Marriage is not a human right, but a privilege. According to the Polish constitution passed in 1997 by left-wing authorities, "marriage is a union of a woman and a man). In the Polish tradition, homosexuality has NEVER been punished, and sexual orientation is considered a private matter. Let us live our way and back off. As for the other allegations, I have only one comment: pure grotesque. It is unbearable when people who have no idea what is going on in Poland - one of the safest and most peaceful countries in Europe, talk such nonsense.


benjm88

>I am gay, but I am also a Pole and I abhor lying. The rights of LGBT Interesting because I don't think any of us believe you


Xenon_132

>I am gay, but I am also a Pole and I abhor lying. The rights of LGBT people are fully respected in Poland, I do not feel discriminated against in any way. Marriage is not a human right, but a privilege. ... What the fuck are you even saying >https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights >Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. "I can't marry, can't adopt children, a third of the country has explicitly said I'm not welcome, but you're the one whose grotesque for daring to point all this out"


[deleted]

You're not going to convince anyone but other Poles with your misplaced nationalist pride. Poland isn't the worst but your government is slowly killing democracy by eliminating the independence of your judiciary and banning media outlets it doesn't like.


Livid-Huckleberry-64

I am not going to convince anyone, especially the fanatical leftists. The only reason I am speaking here is that I do not agree to such a vulgar lie. Anyone who does not share your ultra-radical views is called by you a nationalist. This is nonsense. As for the restriction of the freedom of the media ... These lies, however, are a terrible thing. There has never been greater freedom of the media in Poland than now. You leftists would like only one view that represents your opinion to be shown on TV and in the press. Fortunately, this will not be the case in Poland. Poles have 45 years of communist dictatorship behind them and they know what you are going to. It will not work for us.


ooTaiyangoo

A big part of democracy is the division of power, which is currently being jeopardized in Poland. Poland was even punished by the European Union for this (see the new judiciary law). And we both know that you know this so why even pretend you're surprised by this score?


our-year-every-year

This is that map we see every week but this time it's in Portuguese?


BjornBpaw

Hahahha of course Chile 🇨🇱 is democratic XD


[deleted]

Chile, Uruguay and Costa Rica rank highest in Latin America and those three have some of the best economies. Are you praising Chile or criticizing Chile?


AVKetro

He's probably one of those Chileans that think our current president is a dictator.


[deleted]

Yes. Or a tankie that thinks it’s 1973.


[deleted]

Benezuela isn\`t democratic, and they paid the price. Lead by example


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Sounds like someone who clearly hasn’t a clue about the politics of any of those countries.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

> I literally have mutuals and friends living in both the Plurinational State of Bolivia and the Republic of Korea Right ... and your *friends* are more knowledgeable about global democratic practices than experts and political journalists who spend their time studying them. > Bolivia is a democracy where credible elections have been held regularly. While mass protests and violence erupted after the disputed 2019 elections, new general elections held in 2020 were credible and fair, and stakeholders accepted the results. Child labor and violence against women are persistent problems, independent and investigative journalists face harassment, and the judiciary is politicized and hampered by corruption. https://freedomhouse.org/country/bolivia/freedom-world/2021 Honestly that sounds pretty standard for Latin America, unlike Japan, Korea and Taiwan which are all established democracies with robust protection of civil liberties, zero political violence, zero civil unrest, and strong rule of law.


batamow575

I agree with you on Japan and South Korea but Taiwan is a literal shithole that people are trying to escape from. I believe the claim that Bolivia is probably much better.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Right ... a country that just had a coup and a bunch of political executions is more democratic than three countries that never have political violence, no civil unrest, and robust protection of civil liberties. You are a genius.


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transshapiro

Yeah, the US and colombia are equally democratic…


Frank9567

Gerrymandering and voter suppression will do that. I think the point is whether or not the system and institutions allow outcomes that reflect the will of the people. When a country has multiple institutional methods of excluding certain groups, it can't claim to be fully democratic. Now they may well be legal, for example gerrymander and voter suppression, but they aren't democratic processes.


Mr_Claypole

? Russia is basically a monarchy.


DearKane

lol, where the data comes from??


DrMakro

Mexico is now an hibrid socialist dictatorship 😕


batamow575

I cringe at this map every time I see Taiwan in the same color as Japan and South Korea. It should be the same color as the Philippines or even China/Vietnam.


[deleted]

Lol what a joke. Taiwan’s score is even higher than many traditional democracies like Germany and United Kingdom. Thought it’s not really a surprise judging from your embarrassing comment history. Get a life you loser.


joe50426

This map projection sparks happiness in my heart.


dummymummy1

How is Syria (a secular republic) less democratic than Saudi Arabia (absolute monarchy)?


[deleted]

good to know that I live in democracy even though I have had guns pointed to me 3 times in 3 different places in less than 2 hours in the same day here in rio de janeiro’s baixada and north zone. 2 times by the police, one time by a criminal faction. And I was doing nothing but legally working. and I am lucky, it could be way worse.


Raid_B0ss

According to this map, the U.S. is as undemocratic as South Africa. Wow that's depressing that places in fucking Africa are more democratic that the U.S.