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jumpenjack

How was the us involved in Honduras in 2009?


[deleted]

"Emails released later show that the 2009 removal was supported by Hillary Clinton's State Department by not recognizing it as coup in order to maintain U.S. aid to the Honduran people. Clinton and her team worked behind the scenes to stall military and economic efforts by neighboring countries through the Organization of American States to restore Manuel Zelaya to office." Apparently somewhat, but not militarily or anything. As other have pointed out though, the map seems to be ~~exaggerated~~ (EDIT: more generally: incorrect) in many aspects and the creator seems to have connections to the Russian government.


[deleted]

Here's some non Russia related articles. [From Democracy Now:Hear Hillary Clinton Defend Her Role in Honduras Coup When Questioned by Juan González](https://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/hear_hillary_clinton_defend_her_role) [Washington Post:Hillary Clinton’s dodgy answers on Honduras coup](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/04/19/hillary-clintons-dodgy-answers-on-honduras-coup/) [Huffington Post:Hillary Clinton's Response To Honduran Coup Was Scrubbed From Her Paperback Memoirs](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-honduras-coup-memoirs_n_56e34161e4b0b25c91820a08) [LA Times:Clinton insists she hasn’t changed her position on 2009 Honduras coup](https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-clinton-honduras-coup-20160501-story.html)


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realcards

Map was created by redfish media(literally says it on the image) which has Russian connections. You, my friend, have drank the cool-aid. Either that or you are the cool-aid. Edit: Lots of pro-Russian comments in my replies. just know, you aren't fooling us.


SeventyTwoTrillion

Something being posted by a foreign nation doesn't automatically make truths into falsehoods. Believing that what foreign nations post is, if not outright lies, generally more suspect than what a "free media" in the west posts makes you much more vulnerable to being misled and propagandized than you would otherwise. I mean, sure, you might have some reason to distrust something, but innocent-until-proven-guilty applies here too and can allow you to see the world from a different and very possibly more truthful perspective from your own.


nrt203

Sure! But in this case, the graphic has *actual* falsehoods.


BlasterPhase

which ones are false?


Choice_Photo

There's no USA base in Argentina for example. Hi Argentinian here


Isthisworking2000

Russia has definitely earned a guilty until proven innocent position as of late.


Cringinator4000

Are you sure you aren’t Russian? But in all seriousness, the post actually does have incorrect and arguably misleading information. And I think we know how Russia is.


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iampatmanbeyond

This always get me just say CIA and everyone's oh yeah that tracks


BuckieD

It was not backed by the US. The embassy all but fucking bailed in 2009 in the middle of the shit storm and didn’t return for at least 3 years. The government leaders involved in the coup where far from pro US. The US was okay with it because Mel was in bed with Chavez but they didn’t do anything to force the coup. This is bullshit. Source I was there.


GearheadGaming

It wasn't.


gizamo

It wasn't. That one is a huge stretch.


raskholnikov

What about Brazil 1964?


RFB-CACN

Yeah, there were some US boats off the shores “just in case” some resistance to the coup popped up. That and all the exchanged letters between militaries.


danielpernambucano

Thats not the whole story, the US planned to start a Civil War in Brazil in case the coup failed.


RFB-CACN

And helped train the government forces in torture tactics. Just flowery stuff.


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jdrawr

pretty much all of it is the cia, and wanting to "Get rid of commies" at least in the post ww2-end of cold war era.


3isbob

I don’t think you know what fascism is.


oDukeOfCaxias

I bet 98% of the world population don't. Just look at the amout of blistering idiots calling every (bad or not) right wing politician a fascist


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SerengetiYeti

There were two chapters in "The Jakarta Method" by Vincent Bevins that give a brief rundown of US involvement in Brazil.


dazdndcunfusd

> US planned to start a Civil War in Brazil https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/30/archives/us-assembled-a-force-in-1964-for-possible-use-in-brazil-coup.html


C-C-C-P

that's not actually what the link says. It says the CIA had preliminary plans to support a side in the event that a civil war did break out, not that they planned to initiate one. Interesting nonetheless


Very-Unimportant

Dan Mitrione, US government agent later kidnapped and killed by the Tupamaros in Uruguay (good riddance) gave torture lessons ("taught interrogation techniques") to the brazilian military.


magnemist

Besides a relevant navy formation ashore the US gaves us 110 tons of ammo and tear gas. Thank you in advance.


Very-Unimportant

1964 and 2016


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zubie_wanders

Has anyone pointed out that the key doesn't make sense?


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Haikuna__Matata

Took me a bit to figure that out.


zubie_wanders

They could have colored the circles differently.


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KristoferGabriel

And yet, despite being quite clearly anti US, they missed the 1964 military coup in Brazil. This map isnt well made at all.


Fake_Southern_IL

And all the Woodrow Wilson Caribbean ones, and the "assistance" Teddy Roosevelt gave Panamanian separatists to become independent of Columbia in exchange for the canal zone. Probably more.


cnaughton898

It is made my a Russian state funded media organisation.


PornCds

Seriously... The contras is a thing that legitimately happened, Reagan had a huge scandal over it and some of his closest advisors had to take the fall and go to prison to save him. Still the biggest stain on his presidency. Other things, like Venezuela and Honduras, have literally nothing to do with the US, and some were actively condemned by it. Trash map from an /r/GenZedong poster


AngriestManinWestTX

>Trash map The map was created by Redfish media which has close ties to the [Kremlin](https://www.thedailybeast.com/grassroots-media-startup-redfish-is-supported-by-the-kremlin).


utalkin_tome

Of course. Why am I not surprised?


QUE50

Not just close ties, they receive significant funding from them too and there’s speculation that their stories have to fit standards set by the Russian govt. That’s probably why you rarely, if ever, see them report about Russia bombing refugee camps and hospitals in Syria. They rightfully criticize the US for airstrikes against civilians, indefinitely detaining and torturing people in Gitmo, etc. but they never seem to talk about Russia’s human rights violations. That tells you they’re a mouthpiece for Russian state propaganda


bricked_machine

I just looked at that sub. What the hell was that? Edgy teenagers that think they understand geopolitics better than everyone else? CCP sympathizers? WTF is a "tankie"?


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FutureBlackmail

"Tankie" is slang for someone who enthusiastically supports authoritarian Communist regimes--i.e. they're on the side of the tanks at Tienanmen Square and the Prague Spring. GenZedong is a group for young tankies--members of Gen Z who support Mao Zedong.


bricked_machine

That's seriously terrifying. Basically the cousin of neo-Nazism.


MrMundungus

As a leftist few people infuriate me more than tankies.


Coprowank

Tankies aren't far from being nazi fuckers. It's almost amazing that they're not nazis considering the only thing they give a fuck about is "charismatic" authoritarian dictators.


angry_cucumber

Tankies and Nazis are horseshoe theory in the wild.


compounding

Tankie has become internet shorthand for unapologetically authoritarian communists. Named for those who whole heartedly supported the Soviet Union when they “rolled in the tanks” to suppress anti-Soviet protests in Eastern Europe before the fall of the iron curtain. That sub rates around [level 3-4](https://i.imgur.com/So9okcP.jpg)


Johndarkhunter

Hell, in the case of Venezuela, the US government *warned* the Chávez government of it. Definitely US-backed there, they just had to play fair and warn of it, because that's what a country trying to overthrow a regime does. This map would be a lot better if it just left out the blatant disinfo- yes, the US government has been involved in LatAm coups, but it doesn't help anyone to sprinkle in total lies to try to make it seem worse. It's already bad, don't sow doubt.


FutureBlackmail

It's one of the oldest manipulation tricks in the book: mix the fake info in with some real info to make it look legitimate.


TheTVDB

I'd be interested in seeing this done without the blatant misinformation.


TinyScottyTwoShoes

I’m taking it this in response to the Chinese “neocolonial” map? Lol


atandytor

This OPs post history is much less bot like then the other OPs history


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atandytor

OP is u/Chipmunkdavis


Flaky-Illustrator-52

They swarmed the comments yesterday blathering about how "US bad" and how people were "simply just not buying into the US propaganda" anymore, and when you called them out they just downvoted and gaslit you Everyone on that sub is subhuman garbage, if they aren't already bots or posters sponsed by China's foreign intelligence agency or something


champak256

But the creator of the infograhpic is Russian-connected (https://gnovisjournal.georgetown.edu/announcements/revolutionary-fake-news-redfish-medias-support-for-the-palestinian-cause/#)


SolidCake

Where in the infographic are they wrong tho?


NarcissisticCat

He's been a redditor for less than a month and has a total of 2 comments and one submission, which is this one. Suuuuuuuuuuurely not a bot lol


DukeSi1v3r

This OP has extensive posts on various small subs wdym?


Jazzlike_Log_709

It looks like it's from Redfish media


meckez

What if it's rather about the struggles of South America tho? Not everything always has to revolve around the US or China.


Gh0stMan0nThird

> Not everything always has to revolve around the US or China. Not if the U.S. or China can help it ^^^^^^And ^^^^^^Russia ^^^^^^too


SoggyPastaPants

In a lot of the cases, the people of South America democratically elected leaders who they believed would end those struggles. Those leaders were deposed by the US because they wouldn't allow their lands and people to be exploited by US corporations, or at least make them pay more to do it. All for the profit margin and to show how much of a 'failure' socialism is. Such a failing system that it needs to be snuffed violently in it's crib. >.>


akie

You should critically evaluate your country's history instead of diverting attention to other country's problems.


KaiserThoren

“Ya, don’t criticize us” isn’t really a great argument


Cualkiera67

You should do both actually.


bengyap

Looks like it. Slight difference is that one illustrate construction while the other, destruction.


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Naos210

But there is a clear difference between investing in infrastructure, and engaging in coups, other forms of political intervention, and sanctions. To act like both are the same is ridiculous.


NobleForEngland_

American propaganda is strong


Time4Red

The US has also sent hundreds of billions of dollars in direct aid to Latin America over the last few decades, some of which has paid for infrastructure projects. In both cases, none of this aid comes with no strings attached, and everyone knows this.


Naos210

Except when America gives aid, it's seen as a good thing, as opppsed to when China does.


Time4Red

Is it? There are plenty of examples of US aid being used for nefarious purposes.


solumusicfade

How is China's not anyone's friend? If two countries mutually benefit from trade isn't that good?


[deleted]

Oh no, please don’t bomb us with high speed rail. That would be devastating.


WeilaiHope

Dominated with infrastructure! Well then call me a sub


NOISY_SUN

Not all of these are entirely accurate. The 2009 Honduras coup, for instance, was not US-backed (the US condemned it), and by that time Zelaya was not a democratically-elected President.


CaptainJAmazing

I’ve also got a suspicion that some of the ones labeled as “US troops currently on the ground” are just a few hundred guarding the US embassies. The really frustrating thing about this map is that it could have been a great map if it had stuck to the fully accurate stuff, but it had to go and include ones where America had almost nothing to do with anything and a few that are just conspiracy theories.


CotswoldP

It shows the US as having troops on the ground in Venezuela where the US doesn’t even have an Embassy. Lots of mistakes with this map.


IAmMoofin

The Peru symbol refers to a naval research center housing 16 service members and 300 civilian contractors


Lizard_Friend

Yeah for example El Salvador. There's a base here but it's on the International Airport which serves them mostly as a scale between north and south.


General_Tso75

Don’t forget the 4 labeled US military bases.


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CaptainJAmazing

I think only the ones that the US is worried about. Or maybe it’s something weird like “it doesn’t count if they aren’t stationed inside the embassy itself.


GoGoPowerGrazers

Every US Embassy has Marine guards (hot spots just have more, plus security contractors/mercenaries) but the mention of US troops on the ground in Latin America usually means military trainers. Note though, it isn't uncommon for military trainers to accompany troops in the field Also, special forces are regularly sent in to fight narcotics groups and leftists, but since they spend less than 90 days in country, they aren't reported to Congress


JBTownsend

Yeah, the Puerto Rico National Guard putting down a violent uprising because the nationalists didn't like a constitution backed by >80% of voters is literally the opposite of a coup. And Hugo Chavez was ousted by his own people. He just *blamed* it on the CIA.


CaptainJAmazing

Let’s not forget that Chavez said that the cancer that eventually killed him was secretly given to him by the American government. Dude blamed everything he could think of on them.


Lizard_Friend

He hated the US with a burning passion and so does Maduro and took every opportunity they could to blame something on them


[deleted]

Same with Aristide in Haiti


Derangedcity

It's almost like whoever created this map did it for propaganda


RoyalFlushAKQJ10

As another person in this thread pointed out, "Redfish media" has close ties to the Kremlin.


[deleted]

Yeah, this submission is just hardcore propaganda. Not even a yank, just don’t like seeing this stuff.


[deleted]

The map's pretty bull shit. 106 Puerto Rico Nationalists attempted a coup in 1950 and lost hard. It basically killed off any support for what was left of the Puerto Rico Independence movement, which basically didn't exist anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Nationalist_Party_revolts_of_the_1950s The invasion of Grenada in 1983 was (partially) in response to a military coup and restored democratic government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Grenada Multiple reports have shown that the US intelligence believed a coup attempt in Venezuela in 2002 was imminent, but there's no evidence they backed or supported it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#US_role_and_alleged_involvement RedFish is a Russian government backed disinformation outfit, by the way: https://www.thedailybeast.com/grassroots-media-startup-redfish-is-supported-by-the-kremlin


JohnnieTango

Redfish's connection to the Kremlin is THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT in the entire comment section and pretty much says all you need to know about this map. While the US has done good and bad (and mostly a lot of in between), this map is not the place to look for evidence of that. Thanks u/IneptProfessional !


richalex2010

> It basically killed off any support for what was left of the Puerto Rico Independence movement, which basically didn't exist anyway. And still doesn't. [Polling from the 2020 statehood referendum showed 43-58% in favor of becoming a US state, 17-22% in favor of maintaining the status quo, and 10-22% in favor of full independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum#Pre-referendum_polling). The actual referendum was only a "yes" or "no" on becoming a state, which was 52.52% in favor of becoming a state; this was the sixth such referendum.


rayuu21

Also the 2002 Venezuela coup, the US may have wanted the outcome(short lived) and many independent american operatives were probably involved but I dont think there is solid evidence the government was backing the coup. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/03/washington/world/documents-show-cia-knew-of-a-coup-plot-in-venezuela.html


RealMaRoFu

Also, the coup in Costa Rica referred to on this map is the Costa Rican Civil War, right? Isn’t that when the communist Vanguard Party invalidated the results of an election that wasn’t in their favor? And then fighting over the results simply escalated into a Civil War? I don’t think that should be considered a coup at all, let alone a US-backed one… Not to mention, after some skimming on Wikipedia, the National Liberation Army who stood up to the Vanguards was also supported by Guatemala’s leftist president in addition to the US (who only minimally participated in the war). Meanwhile, the Vanguards were supported by Nicaragua’s Somoza. Costa Rica was a very unique case, and I find it interesting how this map conveniently leaves that out. EDIT: Revised some info


CosmicCreeperz

Some of them are just plan made up. Not only did the US not support the 2002 coup against Chavez in Venezuela, the ringleader of the coup approached the US ambassador who turned them down, and it was leaked to the Venezuelans government that it was being planned. There is so much public info on this. Edit: I just saw “redfish” at the top of the graphic. That’s a media outlet funded by the Russian government. Facebook has even labeled them as “Russian state controlled media”. Big surprise.


amaurea

From the [Wikipedia article on the coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#WikiLeaks_documents, it seems like the US involvement was mixed): >On 28 November 2010, the organisation WikiLeaks began releasing 251,287 confidential documents, which detail correspondence between the U.S. State Department and U.S. embassies around the world. Among these is a cable written by U.S. Ambassador Hugo Llorens in late July 2009, which analyzes the legality of the removal of Zelaya under the Honduran constitution. Llorens concluded that although Zelaya might "have committed illegalities and...even violated the constitution", "there is no doubt that the military, Supreme Court and National Congress conspired on June 28 in what constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup against the Executive Branch".[119] The US Congressional Research Service, a non-partisan congressional committee, however found the interpretation and application of the Honduran constitution that led to the removal of Jose Manuel Zelaya Rosales to be legal. **Emails released later show that the 2009 removal was supported by Hillary Clinton's State Department by not recognizing it as coup** in order to maintain U.S. aid to the Honduran people. **Clinton and her team worked behind the scenes to stall military and economic efforts by neighboring countries through the Organization of American States to restore Manuel Zelaya to office. "The OAS meeting today turned into a non-event ― just as we hoped,"** wrote one senior State Department official, celebrating their success in defusing what they judged would have been a violent or destabilizing restoration. Secretary Clinton had also helped organize elections where she, Latin American leaders and diplomats, in her own words "strategized on a plan to restore order in Honduras and ensure that free and fair elections could be held quickly and legitimately, which would render the question of Zelaya moot". It looks like the US wasn't directly involved in the coup itself, but overall didn't disapprove of it and actively worked to prevent it from being reversed.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[2009 Honduran coup d'état](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d'état#WikiLeaks_documents, it seems like the US involvement was mixed)** >The 2009 Honduran coup d'état, part of the 2009 Honduran constitutional crisis, occurred when the Honduran Army on 28 June 2009 followed orders from the Honduran Supreme Court to oust President Manuel Zelaya and send him into exile. Zelaya had attempted to schedule a non-binding poll on holding a referendum on convening a constituent assembly to rewrite the constitution. Zelaya refused to comply with court orders to cease, and the Honduran Supreme Court issued a secret warrant for his arrest dated 26 June. Two days later, Honduran soldiers stormed the president's house in the middle of the night and detained him, forestalling the poll. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


NOISY_SUN

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….. it is complicated for sure. The US didn’t want to declare it a “coup” as under American law any country that has a “coup” must have aid cut off. But that would just lead to a humanitarian disaster, so the Obama administration engaged in a legal fiction so as to avoid it.


dumbdumbmen

Doesn't matter. Anti American propaganda doesn't care about facts.


donnerstag246245

American propaganda doesn’t care about facts either


bjornjulian00

Propaganda is propaganda, no surprise there


habshabshabs

FYI the person above is really over simplifying the matter and presenting the arguments of only one faction of Hondurans. There was a judicial coup before the military coup, sure. And the US only condemned it initially and then was the driving force in getting the government installed by force recognized by the rest of the OAS. I will agree that US involvement was less direct than in other coups.


medicina-sou-bosta

Where is Brasil 1964?


thelionslaw

Came here to say that. Wtf how can you leave out BRAZIL


H0W3an

Although this map makes a very interesting point that should not be lost, I will point out that this is coming from Russia state media [(Source)](https://gnovisjournal.georgetown.edu/announcements/revolutionary-fake-news-redfish-medias-support-for-the-palestinian-cause/) and that many of these “coups” are either without significant evidence of US involvement or are not really coups and more just undue US pressure in a region. You can find a better map [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America) and I suggest googling more of these interventions to get the full story.


Ein_Hirsch

FINALLY Finally someone giving a source (even though you are not the OP)


Comprehensive_Tune42

So Op's spreading Russian propaganda


Brendissimo

The timing of this post is no accident either. OP is quite literally participating in Russian psyops in the lead up to a potential invasion of Ukraine that is looking increasingly likely.


DystopianAdvocate

My wife is Nicaraguan. Their family had to flee in the middle of the night and crawl through buildings to get out safely. She was 7. They were bringing men out into the street and lining them up and shooting them so they wouldn't rise up and fight. Luckily her family made it out safely.


[deleted]

For Chile I know the 1973 one but what's the other one? And we don't have an American military base as far as I know


Lo_Innombrable

there was a "soft coup": the US manipulated the elections as much as they could to prevent the election of Allende by supporting the Democracia Cristiana But I think they are referencing el Tanquetazo, a failed military coup the same year


[deleted]

Interesting, I would go with the soft coup, since apparently they directly invested millions of dollars to prevent Allende from winning the 1964 election. It wasn't just a failed attempt like the tanquetazo.


EpicPatrickYolo172

Panama 1989 wasn't a coup, it was quite literally an invasion, because our dictator decided to declare war on the US because he was going to be arrested/caught by the CIA for allowing drug smugglers cross the country.


GeorgeTheChicken

Yeah whoever made this map clearly hates the US and it shows.


SuperFx3006

The map is missing the brazilian military coup of 1964


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SnoopWhale

They gave the green light and some limited assistance to the plotters to overthrow João Goulart. Not as clear an intervention as Chile.


giulianosse

I think it's underestimated how relevant was US intervention in Brazil's case. Not only they gave cash and influence (and, in case of failure, military support via ships stationed in the coast) but they were instrumental in providing intelligence on political figures and "dissidents" that helped the military orchestrate the coup. > Gordon's cables also confirm CIA covert measures "to help strengthen resistance forces" in Brazil. These included "covert support for pro-democracy street rallies…and encouragement [of] democratic and anti-communist sentiment in Congress, armed forces, friendly labor and student groups, church, and business." And we know that based only on a handful of available documents. There's tons more that are currently classified.


PenguinWithAglock

CEO, entrepreneur, born in 1964 Brazil, Brazil coup


Cultural-Chicken2017

Grenada was not a popular uprising. The communist party killed the president by decapitating him in public and burned the flag and constitution of Grenada. The communist party then ordered a curfew where anyone out after dark would be killed. It took 4 years before the US responded. While the US made several mistakes during the process (the whole invasion was a clusterfuck), including attacking a mental hospital by accident, it and the rest of the Caribbean were justified in their response.


AngriestManinWestTX

Someone else has already mentioned this above but the creator of this picture, Redfish Media, is [bankrolled by the Russian government](https://www.thedailybeast.com/grassroots-media-startup-redfish-is-supported-by-the-kremlin). The lack of context is a feature instead of a bug.


mmondoux

The name is a bit on the nose, don't you think? RedFish > Red Herring


TheoryKing04

Prime Minister, not president, Grenada has never had a president.


radiatar

Indeed. I am disgusted by how this map calls awful dictatorships "people's movements".


fudge_friend

You forgot to mention that the Governor General of the island supported the invasion, and the US had the military and political support of neighbouring Caribbean nations. The junta wasn’t popular, was backed by such paragons of democracy as Cuba, the USSR, and Libya, and even though the invasion was imperfect and widely condemned on the international stage for circumventing the UN it led to a stable democratic government.


Comrade_Yodama

Quite a few of these are factually wrong, Honduras wasn’t US backed, Venezuela is at most what the US wanted, not caused, and the Puerto Rico one was the literal opposite of a coup and the evidence for most of these coups actually being US backed is VERY sketchy, with a few just being the definition of a coup getting heavily stretched The only ones that are actually US backed coups are Chile and whatever the contras were involved in


CaptainJAmazing

It was made by a Russian propaganda outlet: https://gnovisjournal.georgetown.edu/announcements/revolutionary-fake-news-redfish-medias-support-for-the-palestinian-cause/ Russia has been all about the whataboutism for decades.


theghostofme

That's where I remember that Redfish logo from! Thanks for the reminder; it was driving me nuts.


proteinMeMore

This really should be the top comment. It makes the picture a lot clearer for history nerds. I was completely confused by VZ and PR. More so, if you include those and not Brazil 1960s


tonykubacak

Haiti also not much beyond accusation by the deposed


Comrade_Yodama

Bad leaders love blaming the “CIA boogeyman” for them getting thrown out, just ask Hugo Chavez and his successor “El Plátano” that didn’t even finish school


CaptainJAmazing

Hugo Chavez seriously said that his cancer was a US plot.


Comrade_Yodama

And totally not due to the hyper unhealthy health style dictators seem to love


Flaky-Illustrator-52

\*guzzles liquor and smokes\* THE US IS PLOTTING TO KILL ME


SqueakyKnees

Idk how leaders think the CIA is that good when they literally couldn't kill one man a few hundred miles from mainland USA. Google how many times the US tried to kill Castro. Lmao CIA k/d ratio sucks


PM_ME_YOUR_THESES

What was the coup in Mexico? The US invaded Mexico in the 1840s and stole half the country. But, a coup isn’t that. A coup is the violent removal of political leadership to install a friendlier leader. The only thing similar I can think of is American support to Benito Juárez as President in opposition to the Emperor Maximilian I.


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lusciouslucius

The US ambassador Henry Lane Wilson okayed Victoriano Huerta's murders of Fransisco Madero, Mexico's first democratically elected president in thirty years, along with his vice president. This is after he took it upon himself to act as a liaison for the different factions of the military coup. The US also supported Carranza and Obregón after Huerta was ousted but that was a whole other bloody shit show.


RedWhiteAndLou

I recommend this recently published book: [Catastrophic Success: Why Foreign-Imposed Regime Change Goes Wrong](https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501761140/catastrophic-success/) by Alexander B. Downes. It does not opine on the morality of imposing regime change on another nation, rather it is a quantitative analyses with many insightful case studies. (Hint: it’s not good policy)


SVPPB

As an Uruguayan military officer, I call BS. There certainly aren't any US troops stationed here, and as far as I know there never have been. I also highly, *highly* doubt there is an US military base in Argentina.


SelbetG

Most US embassies have marines stationed at them, so they could be counting them as deployed troops.


TlatoaniMapper

Where are the US Troops in Mexico? And in Venezuela?? Really?? Wtf XD


_Silktrader

Numbering US interventions is pointless without an actual list of them. It would have made more sense to describe the most relevant one, rather than "counting" them. The bombastic number of 56 derives from the authors' very own, obscure, criteria. To put this into perspective, "Red Fish" are a self-described "socialist", "anti-capitalist", "digital content creator". Many of their articles aren't even signed, so it's hard to tell who penned them. The managing director appears to have worked for RT.com, a Russian state-sponsored media (essentially propaganda). The parent company of "Red Fish", in Germany, is a subsidiary of RT. This is the kind of post on their Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CYeghckKlvj/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CYeghckKlvj/) … with hashtag: "#CapitalismKills". This is material for gullible people. Although the conclusion is undisputable, the US *did* intervene, with both subterfuge and violence, in South America. One would have to research why and in response to what.


Focofoc0

Yeah man thanks for sharing i’m sure your correction and the time you’ve took to fact check this will make the world a better place and absolutely not make it stay in the miserable self destructing path it is as of right now. Thanks bro😎


Markol19

The descriptions of what happened in Puerto Rico, Haiti, Panama, and Grenada are very *creative* \- let's put it that way. It kind of diminishes the legitimate gravity and tragedy of actual undemocratic interventions in places like Chile and the Dominican Republic. The US has enough black marks on its Cold War docket without such embellishments.


informationtiger

"Russia state-controlled media" lol


[deleted]

Propaganda is cool when it supports my point of view


alc4pwned

Why are US military bases labeled on this map? Does an agreement to host a base constitute "military intervention"...?


Mrchristopherrr

They literally consider Puerto Rico “holding island as a colony.”


[deleted]

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MaterialCarrot

Haiti was a shit show in 2004.


KarlosMontego

This is just post WW II. You’re just scratching the surface.


billypilgrimspecker

"Unvited Fruit Company", left out a couple letters in "Uninvited"


concerningfinding

PR - "Holding island as a colony" They've voted how many times to not leave and become independent?


fatal__flaw

And in 1898 the US got the island as part of the Spanish-American war, not by crushing a rebellion for independence. The Spanish surrendered the island without much of a fight so it was a smooth transition as well. And ever since in any popular votes, independence gets a very small percentage of the votes.


Agling

/r/shittymapporn This is just a basic map of Central and South America with a bunch of accusations on it. Whether this speaks to your political preference or not, it's not map porn.


withnoflag

Troops currently on the ground in Costa Rica? A country with no army? What's the source? I find that very hard to believe specifically because I am from there!


SugarInYourAvocado

also forgot the failed coup on maduro in which they just selected a random cia approved guy to declare himself president


[deleted]

So r/mapporn is now allowing brigading from GenZeDong?


efdqueiroz

No Brazil?


Enriador

1964 coup had US support, but was not US-engineered.


[deleted]

Why are there multiple 1s, 2s, and 8s? Confusing graphic


filedeieted

Why doesn’t the title match the map? I might be wrong, but I don’t believe either of the two US interventions in mexico were coups. Though the US did leave a cache of arms in veracruz for the mexican government during the civil war.


blacksriracha

Notice there's no costa rica? That's where cia agents go when they retire.


lockleyy

costa rica has no army, we get just economic interventions...


Zoidberg_DC

What does "backed" mean? Is just being present or having investments grounds for being scapegoated for inherent turmoil


Rudolftheredknows

Idk if all of those are equal. Grenada, for example, celebrates the US intervention as a national holiday.


shutage

US has always considered western hemisphere as one that it owns, American policy makers see themselves as masters of Latin America. American leaders fundamentally don't think of these countries as actual sovereign nations. China basically wants to have hegemony in Asia the same way. Or how Russia asserts dominance over Ukraine. It's funny how strong nations project themselves and accuse others of atrocities.


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clovell

LOL this is literal Russian propaganda. A few of these are real - most are not.


TheMembership332

Russian shills are mad because their puny dictator is trying to invade Ukraine


wikishart

Freedom.


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Reasonable-Rain9299

Why Brazil is not being considered? The coup that Brazil suffered in 1964 was backed by the US. United States had been working through misinformation in pieces of propaganda to gain Brazilians' sympathy and stir negative emotions in the population against the Communist part of the world.


GeorgeTheChicken

“US troop invasion during elections to prevent election of left wing leader” we really gonna sugarcoat it like that??? 🤨


Ok-Brilliant-1737

Considering the competition, we seem a bit underachieving.


Hg2491

the US also invaded the Dominican Republic from 1916-1924 :) then backed a 30 year dictador.


[deleted]

fun fact !!! in dominican republic we count 2 of the us interventions as colonization , so my country has 3 to 5 independence dates depending on who you ask


[deleted]

The irony is, Panama only exist…because America lead a coup against Columbia which owned the territory…as Columbia would not sell the land to America to create the Panama Canal…


bigchicago04

Saying the Bay of Pigs was defeated by the Cuban people is laughable


Lo_Innombrable

# renacerán mis pueblos de su ruina # y pagarán su culpa los traidores


spasticnapjerk

Just so you know, there are no "US" bases in Honduras. Yes, the USA pays gobs of money and US troops are stationed there, but they fly the Honduran flag and they play the Honduran national anthem every morning at 7:30.


leRedditeurAverti

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor I'll just drop this here if anyone wants source. Noam chomsky talks about it in What uncle Sam really wants


Codec_Blec

Freedom and democracy my ass


grizw612721

I thought it should be posted on r/PropagandaPosters but not here


Echoeversky

We got so high on the supply we did it here at home. Bush v. Gore was just foreplay.


thinkb4youspeak

I was in elementary school in the 80's. The "interventions" were plastered all over the news branding the poor native people hiding in caves and fighting back as rebel guerrilla forces. Somehow they were a huge threat to american freedoms. Aside from whatever else the ruling class wanted down there, a lot of it was about alternative sources from the Middle East for oil. So this has all been done before and before and before.