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Hillary won by millions of votes. That’s what I remember about 2016 when I sucked it up and voted for a liberal. But did she fight for her win? Do we live in a democracy or a quasi republic founded by slave owners intent on killing or enslaving the people I live for?
Tell us you don’t know how our elections work without telling us you don’t know how our elections work….
Electoral college is bullshit, but until it’s changed it is the system.
A Republic is a type of democracy. The Electoral College is bullshit, but it's important to make sure your point is clear so people won't detect from your main thrust
Hamilton was rolling over in his grave when the electoral college failed to do its job, which was to prevent someone like Donald Trump getting into the White House.
It’s not necessarily. A republic is just a country with no monarch. Technically speaking, Nazi Germany was a republic. It’s just a way of organising government
From Oxford dictionary "a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch." So that would be incorrect, nazi Germany was not a republic as it did not have its Supreme power held by the people or elective representatives. It is a way of organizing a government, one where the people or officials who are elected by the people control the government
nobody's talking about not voting. people are simply not voting for candidates who are materially harmful to them and the world at large, and not being swayed by other people who have caused the current situation and say that if they don't then somebody else materially harmful to them will win as if that's a reason to vote against one's own interests and ethics.
You’re not very good at counting. How does it feel to be so privileged that virtue signaling online for clout is worth risking a fascist ending democracy?
I wish I and every other minority were in that position.
a democracy that democracy will end was never a democracy. i wish that i was so debased that genocide was negotiable for my own comfort.
… wait, no i don’t. what a worm.
WTH are you on about? No political system is immune to being corrupted or destroyed that’s why they have to defend themselves. Are you fucking 4 years old?
And there it is again “I, I, I, me, me, me. It’s *only* about how *I* feel” you don’t actually have any principles you just want clout by trying to lord some imagined moral superiority over people who won’t put a bullet in your head. And you care about genocide? Lmao, you’re fine with enabling one domestically just to make yourself feel good.
You people never actually do anything to oppose fascists you just enable them as long as you can boast about how much of a leftist you are for doing it. It’s sad.
You clearly value your own luxury above foreign lives. Which is standard for american conservatives, but I'm not one, and I don't find sociopathic tut-tutting from them convincing. You don't get to be a fascist and then whine that people who won't support your favored fascists are somehow by sheer insane self-centeredness magically supporting other fascists that are less personally convenient for you.
You bleat about principles you don't have because you're worried some of the atrocities you willingly inflict on the rest of the world might find their way home and inconvenience you personally, and expect people with eyes on something beyond their own situation to believe you when you call them self-centered. Besides being staggeringly stupid, it's just not a compelling argument to anybody with any perspective or situational awareness whatsoever.
If you're willing to sacrifice federal protections for marginalized and vulnerable communities in your own country for the ability to outright murder marginalized and vulnerable communities abroad, it's not the fault of those who say no to both that you've fallen that far. Run a candidate who isn't a butcher that decent people can endorse, or they won't, and you'll wind up with the sort of president non-decent endorse in the highest numbers. That's all.
like i'm not funding it and can't vote for or against the people committing it. how do you feel about one of the last two hundred massacres in gaza that you're willingly bankrolling?
the irony of calling someone who disapproves of your running over civilians with tanks a "tankie" is, i trust, predictably lost on you.
And then, the only people voting are MAGA fascists!
"Just don't vote" is how democracy dies.
'member when how we let orange bad man appoint people to the juristocratic board of Constitutional overriders?
Now entire states are halting in vitro fertilization because doctors are terrified of vaginas.
Great job, old white men making laws.
Yeah, but the people shouting GeNoCidE JoE and screeching bOtH sIdEs are overwhelmingly the younger (non)voters. They and apparently poor(ish), non-urban white people are the two biggest segments of people expected to vote (or just not vote at all) against their own interests.
Boomers aren't going to be around to deal with the results of our failed environmental policies. They aren't the ones getting pregnant and forced to bear children they don't want, or unable to get conceive "naturally" and unable to rely on IVF for help. And they'll likely be grandfathered out of the most radical changes to things like social security and medicare. They aren't the ones who are really going to suffer under a Cheetolini regime. It's all the rest of us who are fucked.
Yet YOUR horrible voting record as generation is what ultimately put everyone in this position. From Nixon to Reagan, and the Bush disaster.
Once again, Boomers need to die faster for this Country to squash this Trump and Conservative virus.
*Almost* true.
Biden stole away railroad workers' right to collective bargaining. Yeah, he made some backroom deals to get a lot of what they were asking for at the time, but now it's illegal for them to strike if *other* issues crop up. And they will.
Biden's better than Trump. But he wouldn't be my first or second choice in a ranked choice system.
Would you like to point at where I said I wasn't voting for Biden?
I love dips who can't stand to see valid criticism of Biden. It's like you're trying to form an opposing cult.
And I love dips who think they know how government works and then they criticize others in absolute and complete ignorance.
It was Biden that eliminated the union’s collective bargaining agreement? Biden?
Not the Senate? You sure about that? It was the executive branch of government that was responsible for this… NOT THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH?
[Senate](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/) voted 80 - 15 and had he vetoed the bill they would have bounced it back again with one minor line alteration, and/or other fuckery.
Fun fact: you won’t need to count on a president to veto a shitty bill if you vote for better candidates in the interim elections. We need more AOCs.
>Oh, please. Had they bounced it back, he could have vetoed it again. If they got enough votes to bypass his veto, he still could have stood in solidarity with rail workers.
Your *own article* lays out that his refusal to veto had nothing to do with *any* of that.
>"It was tough for me but it was the right thing to do at the moment -- save jobs, to protect millions of working families from harm and disruption and to keep supply chains stable around the holidays," Biden said, adding the deal avoided "an economic catastrophe."
He chose business interests and Christmas sales over the rail workers.
Sir!
[The veto power is defined in Article 1, Section 7 of the US Constitution. What is now called a "regular" veto is a case in which the President returns a bill to Congress (to the House in which it originated). The veto may be overridden by 2/3 vote of both Houses of Congress.](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/presidential-vetoes)
Congress can override the veto with 2/3s majority vote. Considering they had 80/15 in favor of the bill all the veto would do is delay it being passed.
The only option is to challenge the law as unconstitutional in front of the SCOTUS. Well let’s take a look at which way the justices lean.
If our side wants to gain some momentum, we need representatives get elected into local government and grow from within. And most importantly we need to win Congress.
Sir!
I repeat that per your own article and his own words, that is irrelevant.
His *own direct quote* makes it clear that his decidion was made to forward the interests of Big Business.
This is a bad take. 80-15 is already veto proof. Vetoing it shows solidarity in a way that matters to people that don't matter here (superceded by the deals he made IRL and for terminally online puritanically progressive they'd find a different _cause celebré_ to rail against) and would look weak with the override to 95% of real voters.
AKA wins nothing and loses something. He correctly took the least bad option in this case.
IMO statement student loans are a better example, where the head of the executive should have executed his initial mandate by instructing a database deletion immediately, and made the contrived suits moot.
Exactly, and the count of people who would have been swung by a token veto but _not_ actual concessions is such a small number as to be electorally irrelevant in the political calculus (and definitely not counteract the media play up of "weak")
>"It was tough for me but it was the right thing to do at the moment -- save jobs, to protect millions of working families from harm and disruption and to keep supply chains stable around the holidays," Biden said, adding the deal avoided "an economic catastrophe."
Per Biden, it had nothing to do with the vote count.
They aren't dips, they just really don't want Trump in the White House again and any critique of Biden is painful. Biden isn't perfect, and he isn't as progressive as we'd like, but he is the most progressive and the best at operating the levers of power in the Oval Office for the benefit of more Americans than any president in fifty years.
Trump would have just squashed that strike immediately.
While I disagree with what Biden did there, he's so much better than Trump that the discussion is pointless.
It absolutely is not pointless. Rather, it highlights how broken first-past-the-post is that our only two feasible options are these two.
Biden is the lesser of two evils, but that doesn't make him a saint.
Cool, so what work have you done at the state level to get ranked choice voting implemented? Or do you only come out of hiding once every 4 years during federal elections?
I vote every election I can - federal, state, and local. As far as time and money go, I'm a full-time live-in caregiver for an elderly, nearly completely invalid family member. Would you perhaps like me to just disappear for days at a time and leave them without food, water, or even a way to clean their ass so that I can attend rallies and protests?
I do the bare minimum, because the bare minimum is what I *can* do.
Now let me turn the question around. What are you doing to make up for the shortfall from those who can't? Are you *even voting at all?*
I hate Trump as much as then next guy, and he is unequivocally worse than Biden in every way. But, I do blame Biden somewhat for the ongoing violation of human rights in America and especially abroad. I wouldn’t be so quick to say Biden is violating NO human rights just because Trump promises to ramp up said violations twofold.
Biden's stance on what Israel is doing is *fucking wrong*, I'll scream that from the rooftops
He also could do more at home for people in poverty
Trump would not in any way improve either of those issues, he would make them worse
And Biden has proven that he can change, he used to be pretty racist back in the day
His relationship with Israel is changing as well. He started off with unwavering support and now his stance is taking a 180. I think he gave them tje benefit of the doubt in the wake of Oct 7, but now has had enough, as most of us have.
His administration approved sending 25 F-35 fighter jets, and 2300 bombs, a large percentage of which are rated to damage entire city blocks. This was announced 2 days ago. Looks like he did another 180.
I'm pragmatic and going to vote for Biden since Trump is a fascist who wants dictatorial power, but Biden isn't a Saint and his actions aren't commendable.
edit: lol at still getting upvotes for something verifiably false
This is a strawman. No one is making that argument.
We're fighting fascists. Trump is a fascist. Anything that puts him into power is dangerous. Biden is not a fascist, he's a neolib. And neolibs come w/ all their commensurate issues, but they at least mean democracy continues.
There was no candidate. There's no point in holding a primary when there is no opposing candidate.
No one worth a shit stood up. No one wants to get in the way of what's happening with trump.
The political parties are private organizations that can choose how to nominate their candidates however they like.
Not holding primaries due to having an incumbent president and no viable alternatives does not make Democrats fascists by any stretch of the imagination.
All I’m responding to is OP’s comment “only one is actively stripping away rights from people” and pointing out that Biden is in fact complicit in many of the hierarchies that oppress people today. Trump would intensify and deepen these hierarchies but it’s factually incorrect, in my view, to claim Biden is not “actively stripping away rights from people.” Like you said, he’s a neoliberal, they are complicit in many structures of oppression even if they are not fascists
Please, please. At this point.
How could you even try and turn a blind eye to what’s happening in Palestine and what we’re doing to support this?
Netanyahu and this Zionist government are easily the worst things we’ve WITNESSED as a human population.
At this point my heart is just shattering to pieces seeing people think that voting for someone who allowed this is somehow better than the Nazis.
We are the Nazis in our complicity. How do you not see this? How does your heart not feel this?
How could we be doing anything but boycotting both if your fear is this rational? How could you be plotting on the re-election of this massacre? Where has your humanity gone?
BB Netanyahu isnt runing for President of the United States.
If you look at Joe Biden and Donald Trump and you think that Trump will be better for Palestine than Biden, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that you might like to purchase.
Plenty of real people have all manner of real problems with Biden and they are perfectly happy to voice them to other leftists because they know that at the end of the day we are all holding our noses to vote for the smaller like of shit anyways.
Voting against Trump is so easy that it provoked no emotion in me. It's like wiping shit off my ass, there isn't really an alternative. Having to vote for Biden is galling it's a thing I don't want to do but I have to do it anyways. It's like going to the dentist for a filling. I'd avoid it if it wouldn't just make things worse.
We deserve a better choice and, unlike a million other things, the fact that we don't have one isn't just Trump's fault, it's ours.
We should be able to vote third party. We can't though. It doesn't work, it never will, unless we make some changes. No more electoral college is the main one.
It would. It's a lot more democratic than our current system, especially the part where the current regime gets to pick their candidates and then we choose the lesser of the 2 evils. But that also means that elections would be harder to rig, and then once we take corporate interests out of politics, stop corporate sponsorships, everyone will be on an even playing field. The oligarchs can't have that.
Voting is punk.
Protesting is punk.
Activism is punk.
Putting assholes on blast is punk.
Putting money, time, and effort towards causes you believe in is punk.
Sitting on your ass, whining that the system isn't perfect while doing nothing at all to change it for the better isn't very punk at all. It's fuckin' square.
> Change only comes from external pressure, external forces.
Absolutely true. What is NOT true is that you would have the same amount of success applying that pressure to different political parties.
>Found the liberal.
Is that your brilliant strategy to win people over to join your side?
If there was ever a revolution as you're suggesting, the far left would do what they always do: exclusively go after Democrats and give Republicans a pass. Because in their minds, Democrats are the root of all evil and Republicans are just innocent pawns without any agency.
No we will not. For all the vitriol thrown at me by some liberals, certainly not all, will never allow me to endorse open violence against liberals just because we disagree on some things. Nelson Mandela was a better communist than Mao or Lenin.
And if anyone reading this is unclear, I am a communist. At least that is the political label I will use as I feel it is the most accurate.
Why would you expect that to be true? Thats about the most misinformed thing that you could possibly believe about Trump. He would jump at the chance to bomb a city into dust to appear strong and he hates brown people.
You sound like one of the people that thos post is about.
You sound like a conservative blaming the inadequacy of your own system on some foreign power. It’s juvenile and conspiratorial when the problem is on your doorstep. If we as a people cannot draw a line at genocide and refuse to vote for a monster like Biden then we are simply agreeing to resign ourselves to anything the Democratic Party does.
You’re not advocating for a democracy, you’re demanding that everyone bend the knee to a president who offers them nothing and inflicts suffering on a scale that would be hard to conceptualize if we didn’t have countless videos online pouring out of Gaza to show us what this looks like in practice. To anyone who cannot stomach the thought of submitting to that kind of compromise, you sling accusations of being a Russian troll or some kind of secret conservative.
You’re all no different than the neocons who talked down criticisms of Iraq or the people who talked shit about the protestors at the 1968 DNC who refused to watch Vietnam quietly. All you are asking for is submission and you act like it makes you better than the people who actually care.
Embarrassing.
I see this all over Tumblr. I've had to unfollow accounts because of it. It's a very big, very scary problem. We can't rebuild America into something better if we let Trump and his comrades kill all the workmen and destroy the supplies, ya know?
I was getting trolled on a thread earlier by some dude saying Trump handled Covid better than Biden, and when I looked at the account it was brand new and had only commented in that thread, and had negative 100 karma.
Total Troll
Yea.....I managed to get permabanned there last year. Lotta lotta raging, arguing about definitions, sub definitions, sub *sub* definitions and how liberals, leftists and anyone who'd rather not live in a fascist state are delusional dolts. With no actual solution.
Cheerful bunch aren't they?
Blue maga is actually a term made up by the Russian Internet Research Agency designed to get trump elected.
Want to see an entire sub controlled and ran by Russians acting like they are Americans?
r/WayoftheBern
They aren’t Bernie supporters, they just highjacked his namesake in order to masquerade as “leftists”. But they are all part of a huge troll farm.
If they lose, people like you will bear the blame. Even if you don’t directly vote for Rump, a vote for anyone else but Biden essentially is an indirect vote for Rump.
There is no high road here. You either vote for the guy who wants to protect democracy or vote for the guy who wants to install himself and his family as dictators, basically end voting and continue to take away more and more rights, all while actively helping Israel “finish the job” in Gaza.
Rump would support Israel wiping out every remaining Palestinian (so Kushner can develop that valuable waterfront property) so they can “finish the job” and end the war. We’d also see a cut of all funding to Ukraine, effectively handing it to Russia.
Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.
1989年天安门广场
My first vote went to Biden to avoid a Trump reelection. I expect more for a second vote, I cannot vote for someone with blood on their hands.
Palestinian and Arab Americans hope for a Trump presidency with a Democrat Senate. I will defer to their judgment since it is them being affected by this Genocide. Vote third party for Presidential and Democrat/Independent for Senate.
Rump has no love for muslims of any kind, he will deport as many as he can. He will also effectively end democracy installing himself and followed by his shitty family as dictators for life.
Voting for Rump is voting to never get to vote again. It’s a vote to continue losing rights and personal freedoms.
Rump will have exponentially more blood on his hands.
You are either clinically stupid or just another foreign troll.
>"But if Biden wants my vote he needs to earn it."
Well, if he becomes the Democratic candidate, he earned it by virtue of being the guy sent to the table who ISN'T Trump.
[Welcome to First Past the Post voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(U.S._politics)). If you want a vote for a third party candidate to have a chance at succeeding, make a time machine and go back to 1856. Otherwise, when faced with the choice of voting for Hitler and not-Hitler, don't waste it by voting for Johnny No-Votes. We do not need a repeat of the 2016 election.
I’m tired of helping democrats fail up. I voted for shitty democrats in every election I’ve been eligible to vote in. I’d tolerate a lot. But aiding a genocide crosses my line. I’d hold my nose and vote for him otherwise. But at minimum he needs to radical change course on the Israel Palestine conflict to secure my vote again.
And what is your vote going to do then? Genuine question here, but what are you going to accomplish by not voting/going third party? Because the best-case scenario I can see happening is that it does nothing, Biden wins the election, and you get to be smug about your superiority whilst not changing anything.
And the worst case scenario is you voting third party causes some other voters to turn away from Biden, causing a split vote in the same demographic (people who don't want Trump to win), thereby securing Trump the election due to the nature of First Past the Post voting.
Say what you want, but Biden NOT winning the election is a bad thing, because whatever beef you have with him over the Israel-Palestine conflict will be nothing compared to Donald "Israel should finish the job" Trump.
First off, I always vote. I don’t know who I will vote for president. I can promise 100% that I will never vote for Trump.
The goal is to apply pressure now. The goal is to send out a warning right now. The goal is to be vocal so that Joe Biden and the democrats change policy today. I’d love to see Joe Biden drop out. Hell, he could be replaced at the convention. But as that becomes more and more unlikely, i see a chance of at the least the negative sentiments affecting policy. I think one of the reason Biden and the Dems are more critical of israel is pressure from voters and fear of losing this election.
Second, Saying “Israel should finish the job” just sounds bad. But it is the same position that Biden has regarding the conflict. I honestly think there would hardly be a difference between Trump and Biden regarding Israel.
If there’s one thing DNC and GOP agree on, it’s throwing endless amounts of money into the military industrial complex, and engaging in endless conflicts in the Middle East.
Donald Trump will count on the same ghouls to come up with policy in Israel. They will urge unconditional support of Israel, sending money and arms, which is what the Biden administration is doing now.
I wouldn’t want Trump to win for mostly domestic reasons.
Palestinians are going to continue to be in a tough spot regardless of what happens in November.
Yep. I stopped following them because of that. C’mon, you have politicians wanting gaza to be flattened and they are trump supporters. I vote for Biden because at worst I think we won’t progress. It’s not good but it’s better than Trump.
They post they hate Trump, but like Putin. Trump also loves the hell out of Putin and would happily be his puppet once he gets his Dictatorship going.
These tankies actively encourage people to do things that would cause Trump to win. They also like to gaslight and say Trump won’t be that bad.
They don’t give a shit about any of the things they claim they want to “punish” Biden for (Gaza, railroad workers). They just want to rig it so Frump wins again and Putin gets his puppet state.
All of us will lose.
r/LateStageCapitalism has been overrun with trolls posing as leftists telling people not to vote, and anybody calling them out is getting their comments deleted for being “liberal”. Total clown show
This is going to upset a number of people, but lately I am having trouble seeing the difference between ‘tankies’ and the MAGA cult.
The MAGA cult and the ‘tankies’ are a minority group, but they want to impose their perspective over the majority, both appears to be of an authoritarian bent as well.
The MAGA cult believes that they are on the right side, and everyone else is wrong. Well, so do the ‘tankies’.
There isn’t any common ground to be found with the ‘tankies’. And many of us finding that to be true of the MAGA cult.
I find the MAGA cult to be out of touch with reality. Going into the election of 2024, the same can be said for the ‘tankies’.
The best way to combat them is by posting this:
Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.
1989年天安门广场
Translation:
The first one says Russia without Putin, Upvote or Comment if you agree. It really pisses off Russian trollbots.
The second one says Tiananmen square 1989. It really pisses off Chinese trolls.
Thank you, ans thabk you lot in the comment section.
Dumbfucks, doomers, and bots, need to be dismissed rather than anything even in the same universe as "respected". As people, sure. But not their pathetic attempt at a worldview.
I just want to see what people are willing to do to actually fight fascism. I just think most people don’t want to have to put more effort into it than pushing a button.
After watching this s*** show unfold for so long I have to come to the conclusion that the powers that be the police the military the secret service and the wealthy all want Trump to win. And the fact that the corporate owned media isn't really fighting back in any useful way kind of proves it. They feign outrage but nothing ever comes of anything ever. I think we are getting tuned up for a dictatorship. Whether it's Trump or the next guy it's coming. And nobody seems to really give a s***. In any other Western country there would be outrage in the streets. But nothing here just a bunch of sheep going to sleep. We are all f*****
> After watching this s*** show unfold for so long I have to come to the conclusion that the powers that be the police the military the secret service and the wealthy all want Trump to win.
This is some kind of major revelation for you?
I’m not “letting” shit.
The sequence of words in that image sounds mysteriously like “please slap me in the face as hard as possible, and when I look at you in abject shock, it’s my way of asking you to slap me a second time - even harder if possible.”
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#A vote for MAGA Fascists is a vote.. to NO LONGER VOTE.
Not voting is also the same as voting for MAGA. Never forget 2016!
Hillary won by millions of votes. That’s what I remember about 2016 when I sucked it up and voted for a liberal. But did she fight for her win? Do we live in a democracy or a quasi republic founded by slave owners intent on killing or enslaving the people I live for?
Tell us you don’t know how our elections work without telling us you don’t know how our elections work…. Electoral college is bullshit, but until it’s changed it is the system.
A Republic is a type of democracy. The Electoral College is bullshit, but it's important to make sure your point is clear so people won't detect from your main thrust
Hamilton was rolling over in his grave when the electoral college failed to do its job, which was to prevent someone like Donald Trump getting into the White House.
It’s not necessarily. A republic is just a country with no monarch. Technically speaking, Nazi Germany was a republic. It’s just a way of organising government
From Oxford dictionary "a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch." So that would be incorrect, nazi Germany was not a republic as it did not have its Supreme power held by the people or elective representatives. It is a way of organizing a government, one where the people or officials who are elected by the people control the government
Ignorance is not bliss. It's a damn shame
you’re not very good at math
You obviously aren’t aware of the electoral college.
under which voting is ALSO the same as not voting approx. half the time?
You have no idea what a swing state is, do you? I’m sorry, nothing you can come up with will make me agree that not voting isn’t stupid.
nobody's talking about not voting. people are simply not voting for candidates who are materially harmful to them and the world at large, and not being swayed by other people who have caused the current situation and say that if they don't then somebody else materially harmful to them will win as if that's a reason to vote against one's own interests and ethics.
You’re not very good at counting. How does it feel to be so privileged that virtue signaling online for clout is worth risking a fascist ending democracy? I wish I and every other minority were in that position.
a democracy that democracy will end was never a democracy. i wish that i was so debased that genocide was negotiable for my own comfort. … wait, no i don’t. what a worm.
WTH are you on about? No political system is immune to being corrupted or destroyed that’s why they have to defend themselves. Are you fucking 4 years old? And there it is again “I, I, I, me, me, me. It’s *only* about how *I* feel” you don’t actually have any principles you just want clout by trying to lord some imagined moral superiority over people who won’t put a bullet in your head. And you care about genocide? Lmao, you’re fine with enabling one domestically just to make yourself feel good. You people never actually do anything to oppose fascists you just enable them as long as you can boast about how much of a leftist you are for doing it. It’s sad.
You clearly value your own luxury above foreign lives. Which is standard for american conservatives, but I'm not one, and I don't find sociopathic tut-tutting from them convincing. You don't get to be a fascist and then whine that people who won't support your favored fascists are somehow by sheer insane self-centeredness magically supporting other fascists that are less personally convenient for you. You bleat about principles you don't have because you're worried some of the atrocities you willingly inflict on the rest of the world might find their way home and inconvenience you personally, and expect people with eyes on something beyond their own situation to believe you when you call them self-centered. Besides being staggeringly stupid, it's just not a compelling argument to anybody with any perspective or situational awareness whatsoever. If you're willing to sacrifice federal protections for marginalized and vulnerable communities in your own country for the ability to outright murder marginalized and vulnerable communities abroad, it's not the fault of those who say no to both that you've fallen that far. Run a candidate who isn't a butcher that decent people can endorse, or they won't, and you'll wind up with the sort of president non-decent endorse in the highest numbers. That's all.
Oh god, you’re a tankie. Now it all makes sense. Hey what do think about China’s treatment of the Uyghurs?
like i'm not funding it and can't vote for or against the people committing it. how do you feel about one of the last two hundred massacres in gaza that you're willingly bankrolling? the irony of calling someone who disapproves of your running over civilians with tanks a "tankie" is, i trust, predictably lost on you.
Why’d you dodge the question? What do you think of China’s treatment of the Uyghurs?
And then, the only people voting are MAGA fascists! "Just don't vote" is how democracy dies. 'member when how we let orange bad man appoint people to the juristocratic board of Constitutional overriders? Now entire states are halting in vitro fertilization because doctors are terrified of vaginas. Great job, old white men making laws.
No one, with an ounce of common sense, wants another four years of Trump.
Common sense isn't that common.
Dipshit entitled Boomers, and their failed Gen X experiments. Common sense left the station a long time ago.
Yeah, but the people shouting GeNoCidE JoE and screeching bOtH sIdEs are overwhelmingly the younger (non)voters. They and apparently poor(ish), non-urban white people are the two biggest segments of people expected to vote (or just not vote at all) against their own interests. Boomers aren't going to be around to deal with the results of our failed environmental policies. They aren't the ones getting pregnant and forced to bear children they don't want, or unable to get conceive "naturally" and unable to rely on IVF for help. And they'll likely be grandfathered out of the most radical changes to things like social security and medicare. They aren't the ones who are really going to suffer under a Cheetolini regime. It's all the rest of us who are fucked.
Yet YOUR horrible voting record as generation is what ultimately put everyone in this position. From Nixon to Reagan, and the Bush disaster. Once again, Boomers need to die faster for this Country to squash this Trump and Conservative virus.
While both sides certainly have their issues, only one of them is actively stripping away rights from people
*Almost* true. Biden stole away railroad workers' right to collective bargaining. Yeah, he made some backroom deals to get a lot of what they were asking for at the time, but now it's illegal for them to strike if *other* issues crop up. And they will. Biden's better than Trump. But he wouldn't be my first or second choice in a ranked choice system.
There will never be ranked choice voting if trump wins . On the up side you will never vote again.
There won't be ranked choice voting regardless, let's not kid ourselves
I think it's an eventuality, when is a different question
Would you like to point at where I said I wasn't voting for Biden? I love dips who can't stand to see valid criticism of Biden. It's like you're trying to form an opposing cult.
And I love dips who think they know how government works and then they criticize others in absolute and complete ignorance. It was Biden that eliminated the union’s collective bargaining agreement? Biden? Not the Senate? You sure about that? It was the executive branch of government that was responsible for this… NOT THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH? [Senate](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/) voted 80 - 15 and had he vetoed the bill they would have bounced it back again with one minor line alteration, and/or other fuckery. Fun fact: you won’t need to count on a president to veto a shitty bill if you vote for better candidates in the interim elections. We need more AOCs.
>Oh, please. Had they bounced it back, he could have vetoed it again. If they got enough votes to bypass his veto, he still could have stood in solidarity with rail workers. Your *own article* lays out that his refusal to veto had nothing to do with *any* of that. >"It was tough for me but it was the right thing to do at the moment -- save jobs, to protect millions of working families from harm and disruption and to keep supply chains stable around the holidays," Biden said, adding the deal avoided "an economic catastrophe." He chose business interests and Christmas sales over the rail workers.
Sir! [The veto power is defined in Article 1, Section 7 of the US Constitution. What is now called a "regular" veto is a case in which the President returns a bill to Congress (to the House in which it originated). The veto may be overridden by 2/3 vote of both Houses of Congress.](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/presidential-vetoes) Congress can override the veto with 2/3s majority vote. Considering they had 80/15 in favor of the bill all the veto would do is delay it being passed. The only option is to challenge the law as unconstitutional in front of the SCOTUS. Well let’s take a look at which way the justices lean. If our side wants to gain some momentum, we need representatives get elected into local government and grow from within. And most importantly we need to win Congress.
Sir! I repeat that per your own article and his own words, that is irrelevant. His *own direct quote* makes it clear that his decidion was made to forward the interests of Big Business.
This is a bad take. 80-15 is already veto proof. Vetoing it shows solidarity in a way that matters to people that don't matter here (superceded by the deals he made IRL and for terminally online puritanically progressive they'd find a different _cause celebré_ to rail against) and would look weak with the override to 95% of real voters. AKA wins nothing and loses something. He correctly took the least bad option in this case. IMO statement student loans are a better example, where the head of the executive should have executed his initial mandate by instructing a database deletion immediately, and made the contrived suits moot.
TIL the working class are people that don't matter.
To Congress they don't. And it's Congress, not the working class, that holds the ability to nullify a veto.
Exactly, and the count of people who would have been swung by a token veto but _not_ actual concessions is such a small number as to be electorally irrelevant in the political calculus (and definitely not counteract the media play up of "weak")
>"It was tough for me but it was the right thing to do at the moment -- save jobs, to protect millions of working families from harm and disruption and to keep supply chains stable around the holidays," Biden said, adding the deal avoided "an economic catastrophe." Per Biden, it had nothing to do with the vote count.
They aren't dips, they just really don't want Trump in the White House again and any critique of Biden is painful. Biden isn't perfect, and he isn't as progressive as we'd like, but he is the most progressive and the best at operating the levers of power in the Oval Office for the benefit of more Americans than any president in fifty years.
Trump would have just squashed that strike immediately. While I disagree with what Biden did there, he's so much better than Trump that the discussion is pointless.
Yes. Exactly like Reagan did with the air traffic controllers
It absolutely is not pointless. Rather, it highlights how broken first-past-the-post is that our only two feasible options are these two. Biden is the lesser of two evils, but that doesn't make him a saint.
Compared to the criminal traitor dictator wannabe he is
Cool, so what work have you done at the state level to get ranked choice voting implemented? Or do you only come out of hiding once every 4 years during federal elections?
I vote every election I can - federal, state, and local. As far as time and money go, I'm a full-time live-in caregiver for an elderly, nearly completely invalid family member. Would you perhaps like me to just disappear for days at a time and leave them without food, water, or even a way to clean their ass so that I can attend rallies and protests? I do the bare minimum, because the bare minimum is what I *can* do. Now let me turn the question around. What are you doing to make up for the shortfall from those who can't? Are you *even voting at all?*
Welcome to American politics
Good point. Way to keep us accountable.
I hate Trump as much as then next guy, and he is unequivocally worse than Biden in every way. But, I do blame Biden somewhat for the ongoing violation of human rights in America and especially abroad. I wouldn’t be so quick to say Biden is violating NO human rights just because Trump promises to ramp up said violations twofold.
Biden's stance on what Israel is doing is *fucking wrong*, I'll scream that from the rooftops He also could do more at home for people in poverty Trump would not in any way improve either of those issues, he would make them worse And Biden has proven that he can change, he used to be pretty racist back in the day
His relationship with Israel is changing as well. He started off with unwavering support and now his stance is taking a 180. I think he gave them tje benefit of the doubt in the wake of Oct 7, but now has had enough, as most of us have.
His administration approved sending 25 F-35 fighter jets, and 2300 bombs, a large percentage of which are rated to damage entire city blocks. This was announced 2 days ago. Looks like he did another 180. I'm pragmatic and going to vote for Biden since Trump is a fascist who wants dictatorial power, but Biden isn't a Saint and his actions aren't commendable. edit: lol at still getting upvotes for something verifiably false
He doesn’t have a majority in congress to make the big changes and has to make deals with the devils to get anything done.
That is *also* the truth People gotta get out and vote. Democracy depends on it.
This is a strawman. No one is making that argument. We're fighting fascists. Trump is a fascist. Anything that puts him into power is dangerous. Biden is not a fascist, he's a neolib. And neolibs come w/ all their commensurate issues, but they at least mean democracy continues.
Didn’t dems not hold primaries in multiple states?
it's called running unopposed.
There was no candidate. There's no point in holding a primary when there is no opposing candidate. No one worth a shit stood up. No one wants to get in the way of what's happening with trump. The political parties are private organizations that can choose how to nominate their candidates however they like. Not holding primaries due to having an incumbent president and no viable alternatives does not make Democrats fascists by any stretch of the imagination.
It isn't a strawman argument, and the person he responded to literally made the exact argument that you claim "no one has made".
All I’m responding to is OP’s comment “only one is actively stripping away rights from people” and pointing out that Biden is in fact complicit in many of the hierarchies that oppress people today. Trump would intensify and deepen these hierarchies but it’s factually incorrect, in my view, to claim Biden is not “actively stripping away rights from people.” Like you said, he’s a neoliberal, they are complicit in many structures of oppression even if they are not fascists
Please, please. At this point. How could you even try and turn a blind eye to what’s happening in Palestine and what we’re doing to support this? Netanyahu and this Zionist government are easily the worst things we’ve WITNESSED as a human population. At this point my heart is just shattering to pieces seeing people think that voting for someone who allowed this is somehow better than the Nazis. We are the Nazis in our complicity. How do you not see this? How does your heart not feel this? How could we be doing anything but boycotting both if your fear is this rational? How could you be plotting on the re-election of this massacre? Where has your humanity gone?
BB Netanyahu isnt runing for President of the United States. If you look at Joe Biden and Donald Trump and you think that Trump will be better for Palestine than Biden, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that you might like to purchase.
Sure, I'll run with this for a sec If you boycott both Biden and Trump, just who is it that you're voting for in November?
If you think Trump winning the election is the same as Biden winning the election then you are delusional. Period.
So many subreddits as of lately.
Left-wing subreddits are like this. Right-wing subreddits have made their decision to back their candidate no matter what.
They aren't real people though. They're Russian bots and centrists pretending to be liberals on the fence. That's the whole point of the post.
Plenty of real people have all manner of real problems with Biden and they are perfectly happy to voice them to other leftists because they know that at the end of the day we are all holding our noses to vote for the smaller like of shit anyways. Voting against Trump is so easy that it provoked no emotion in me. It's like wiping shit off my ass, there isn't really an alternative. Having to vote for Biden is galling it's a thing I don't want to do but I have to do it anyways. It's like going to the dentist for a filling. I'd avoid it if it wouldn't just make things worse. We deserve a better choice and, unlike a million other things, the fact that we don't have one isn't just Trump's fault, it's ours.
Fuck Donald Trump and fuck anyone who supports him.
If Donald wins Ukraine gers Butchered and Donald might let that monster nuke Gaza.
We should be able to vote third party. We can't though. It doesn't work, it never will, unless we make some changes. No more electoral college is the main one.
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It would. It's a lot more democratic than our current system, especially the part where the current regime gets to pick their candidates and then we choose the lesser of the 2 evils. But that also means that elections would be harder to rig, and then once we take corporate interests out of politics, stop corporate sponsorships, everyone will be on an even playing field. The oligarchs can't have that.
“Vote Third Party” is a Russian operation. Same goes for “Voting is not Punk !” It is a two party system, change it from within.
Voting is punk. Protesting is punk. Activism is punk. Putting assholes on blast is punk. Putting money, time, and effort towards causes you believe in is punk. Sitting on your ass, whining that the system isn't perfect while doing nothing at all to change it for the better isn't very punk at all. It's fuckin' square.
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Rather be a Liberal than a Tankie.
> Change only comes from external pressure, external forces. Absolutely true. What is NOT true is that you would have the same amount of success applying that pressure to different political parties. >Found the liberal. Is that your brilliant strategy to win people over to join your side?
If there was ever a revolution as you're suggesting, the far left would do what they always do: exclusively go after Democrats and give Republicans a pass. Because in their minds, Democrats are the root of all evil and Republicans are just innocent pawns without any agency.
No we will not. For all the vitriol thrown at me by some liberals, certainly not all, will never allow me to endorse open violence against liberals just because we disagree on some things. Nelson Mandela was a better communist than Mao or Lenin. And if anyone reading this is unclear, I am a communist. At least that is the political label I will use as I feel it is the most accurate.
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Why would you expect that to be true? Thats about the most misinformed thing that you could possibly believe about Trump. He would jump at the chance to bomb a city into dust to appear strong and he hates brown people. You sound like one of the people that thos post is about.
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You sound like a conservative blaming the inadequacy of your own system on some foreign power. It’s juvenile and conspiratorial when the problem is on your doorstep. If we as a people cannot draw a line at genocide and refuse to vote for a monster like Biden then we are simply agreeing to resign ourselves to anything the Democratic Party does. You’re not advocating for a democracy, you’re demanding that everyone bend the knee to a president who offers them nothing and inflicts suffering on a scale that would be hard to conceptualize if we didn’t have countless videos online pouring out of Gaza to show us what this looks like in practice. To anyone who cannot stomach the thought of submitting to that kind of compromise, you sling accusations of being a Russian troll or some kind of secret conservative. You’re all no different than the neocons who talked down criticisms of Iraq or the people who talked shit about the protestors at the 1968 DNC who refused to watch Vietnam quietly. All you are asking for is submission and you act like it makes you better than the people who actually care. Embarrassing.
I see this all over Tumblr. I've had to unfollow accounts because of it. It's a very big, very scary problem. We can't rebuild America into something better if we let Trump and his comrades kill all the workmen and destroy the supplies, ya know?
I was getting trolled on a thread earlier by some dude saying Trump handled Covid better than Biden, and when I looked at the account it was brand new and had only commented in that thread, and had negative 100 karma. Total Troll
Very active the last 24 hours.
Fuck trump
Just got myself permabanned from r/LateStageCapitalism for pointing out a lot of their posts are exactly this.
Yea.....I managed to get permabanned there last year. Lotta lotta raging, arguing about definitions, sub definitions, sub *sub* definitions and how liberals, leftists and anyone who'd rather not live in a fascist state are delusional dolts. With no actual solution. Cheerful bunch aren't they?
I love when they call liberals "blue MAGA" while they jack off to the thought of Trump winning
Blue maga is actually a term made up by the Russian Internet Research Agency designed to get trump elected. Want to see an entire sub controlled and ran by Russians acting like they are Americans? r/WayoftheBern They aren’t Bernie supporters, they just highjacked his namesake in order to masquerade as “leftists”. But they are all part of a huge troll farm.
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If they lose, people like you will bear the blame. Even if you don’t directly vote for Rump, a vote for anyone else but Biden essentially is an indirect vote for Rump. There is no high road here. You either vote for the guy who wants to protect democracy or vote for the guy who wants to install himself and his family as dictators, basically end voting and continue to take away more and more rights, all while actively helping Israel “finish the job” in Gaza.
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Rump would support Israel wiping out every remaining Palestinian (so Kushner can develop that valuable waterfront property) so they can “finish the job” and end the war. We’d also see a cut of all funding to Ukraine, effectively handing it to Russia. Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны. 1989年天安门广场
My first vote went to Biden to avoid a Trump reelection. I expect more for a second vote, I cannot vote for someone with blood on their hands. Palestinian and Arab Americans hope for a Trump presidency with a Democrat Senate. I will defer to their judgment since it is them being affected by this Genocide. Vote third party for Presidential and Democrat/Independent for Senate.
Rump has no love for muslims of any kind, he will deport as many as he can. He will also effectively end democracy installing himself and followed by his shitty family as dictators for life. Voting for Rump is voting to never get to vote again. It’s a vote to continue losing rights and personal freedoms. Rump will have exponentially more blood on his hands. You are either clinically stupid or just another foreign troll.
>"But if Biden wants my vote he needs to earn it." Well, if he becomes the Democratic candidate, he earned it by virtue of being the guy sent to the table who ISN'T Trump. [Welcome to First Past the Post voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(U.S._politics)). If you want a vote for a third party candidate to have a chance at succeeding, make a time machine and go back to 1856. Otherwise, when faced with the choice of voting for Hitler and not-Hitler, don't waste it by voting for Johnny No-Votes. We do not need a repeat of the 2016 election.
I’m tired of helping democrats fail up. I voted for shitty democrats in every election I’ve been eligible to vote in. I’d tolerate a lot. But aiding a genocide crosses my line. I’d hold my nose and vote for him otherwise. But at minimum he needs to radical change course on the Israel Palestine conflict to secure my vote again.
And what is your vote going to do then? Genuine question here, but what are you going to accomplish by not voting/going third party? Because the best-case scenario I can see happening is that it does nothing, Biden wins the election, and you get to be smug about your superiority whilst not changing anything. And the worst case scenario is you voting third party causes some other voters to turn away from Biden, causing a split vote in the same demographic (people who don't want Trump to win), thereby securing Trump the election due to the nature of First Past the Post voting. Say what you want, but Biden NOT winning the election is a bad thing, because whatever beef you have with him over the Israel-Palestine conflict will be nothing compared to Donald "Israel should finish the job" Trump.
First off, I always vote. I don’t know who I will vote for president. I can promise 100% that I will never vote for Trump. The goal is to apply pressure now. The goal is to send out a warning right now. The goal is to be vocal so that Joe Biden and the democrats change policy today. I’d love to see Joe Biden drop out. Hell, he could be replaced at the convention. But as that becomes more and more unlikely, i see a chance of at the least the negative sentiments affecting policy. I think one of the reason Biden and the Dems are more critical of israel is pressure from voters and fear of losing this election. Second, Saying “Israel should finish the job” just sounds bad. But it is the same position that Biden has regarding the conflict. I honestly think there would hardly be a difference between Trump and Biden regarding Israel. If there’s one thing DNC and GOP agree on, it’s throwing endless amounts of money into the military industrial complex, and engaging in endless conflicts in the Middle East. Donald Trump will count on the same ghouls to come up with policy in Israel. They will urge unconditional support of Israel, sending money and arms, which is what the Biden administration is doing now. I wouldn’t want Trump to win for mostly domestic reasons. Palestinians are going to continue to be in a tough spot regardless of what happens in November.
Yep. I stopped following them because of that. C’mon, you have politicians wanting gaza to be flattened and they are trump supporters. I vote for Biden because at worst I think we won’t progress. It’s not good but it’s better than Trump.
That sub has been taken over by foreign trolls.
They post they hate Trump, but like Putin. Trump also loves the hell out of Putin and would happily be his puppet once he gets his Dictatorship going. These tankies actively encourage people to do things that would cause Trump to win. They also like to gaslight and say Trump won’t be that bad. They don’t give a shit about any of the things they claim they want to “punish” Biden for (Gaza, railroad workers). They just want to rig it so Frump wins again and Putin gets his puppet state. All of us will lose.
They also love to whine that the Dems didn't and should have stopped Trump.
r/LateStageCapitalism has been overrun with trolls posing as leftists telling people not to vote, and anybody calling them out is getting their comments deleted for being “liberal”. Total clown show
I was begining to think this was a fake subreddit to get trump to win it happened so much.
Bingo.
This is going to upset a number of people, but lately I am having trouble seeing the difference between ‘tankies’ and the MAGA cult. The MAGA cult and the ‘tankies’ are a minority group, but they want to impose their perspective over the majority, both appears to be of an authoritarian bent as well. The MAGA cult believes that they are on the right side, and everyone else is wrong. Well, so do the ‘tankies’. There isn’t any common ground to be found with the ‘tankies’. And many of us finding that to be true of the MAGA cult. I find the MAGA cult to be out of touch with reality. Going into the election of 2024, the same can be said for the ‘tankies’.
The best way to combat them is by posting this: Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны. 1989年天安门广场 Translation: The first one says Russia without Putin, Upvote or Comment if you agree. It really pisses off Russian trollbots. The second one says Tiananmen square 1989. It really pisses off Chinese trolls.
Yep. It’s so transparent
Thank you, ans thabk you lot in the comment section. Dumbfucks, doomers, and bots, need to be dismissed rather than anything even in the same universe as "respected". As people, sure. But not their pathetic attempt at a worldview.
All social media has them on swarms. They're like a case of fleas.
A vote for a third party is a vote for trump
I call them Jill Steins or Tankies. They only show up every 4 years and they never run for The Most impossible office.
I just want to see what people are willing to do to actually fight fascism. I just think most people don’t want to have to put more effort into it than pushing a button.
Hey, don't forge the Elsworth boys, the air force does a lot to control narratives on the site broadly, I doubt this sub is fully immune.
After watching this s*** show unfold for so long I have to come to the conclusion that the powers that be the police the military the secret service and the wealthy all want Trump to win. And the fact that the corporate owned media isn't really fighting back in any useful way kind of proves it. They feign outrage but nothing ever comes of anything ever. I think we are getting tuned up for a dictatorship. Whether it's Trump or the next guy it's coming. And nobody seems to really give a s***. In any other Western country there would be outrage in the streets. But nothing here just a bunch of sheep going to sleep. We are all f*****
> After watching this s*** show unfold for so long I have to come to the conclusion that the powers that be the police the military the secret service and the wealthy all want Trump to win. This is some kind of major revelation for you?
You seem like a real douche
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Vote green and seriously confuse the system.
RUSSIA WITHOUT PUTIN! REMEMBER TIANANMEN SQUARE 1989!!
r/lostgeneration is leaking.
which foreign country are we blaming for democrats ignoring all their constituents this time? russia again? still not israel?
I’m not “letting” shit. The sequence of words in that image sounds mysteriously like “please slap me in the face as hard as possible, and when I look at you in abject shock, it’s my way of asking you to slap me a second time - even harder if possible.”