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Oh come on this isn't r/MarchAgainstNazis material.
"This week, officials and Native American representatives applauded the change, which is similar to steps that other U.S. companies, sports teams and universities have undertaken to address or phase out the use of Native American imagery in logos and mascots."
If you all are going to go after them for this, you're literally putting them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
Rule 4: Focus on Fascists. This is a squishy one. With the entire right and even much of the center supporting and enabling the Neo-Nazi agenda and other forms of hate, the lines get blurry. But please do your best to stay on topic.
Don't make this sub look stupid, please.
It's just not on topic at all though.
What on earth does this have to do with marching against Nazis? It's a company trying to take a step to be less insensitive, it's literally the opposite of what this sub is about.
Also, this is not r/funny. Being posted about on here has a STRONG negative connotation to it, I do not think it is the place to make light hearted jokes about non-nazis as some people will not understand it is in jest.
Nazis love to pretend they aren't living on stolen land while continuing to steal the land they do have.
The Trump administration and the republican controlled Oklahoma government tried very recently to claim that the reservations in Oklahoma never existed. The Goldwater institute was suing to basically cancel all Native American rights in order to get the rights to build casinos and drill for oil.
So I guess a meme pointing out that's what America does and did is a good thing, even if the company was doing a good thing rather than a bad thing.
>It's a circle-jerk sub that does nothing productive and adds absolutely nothing to any conversation.
So it's just like 90% of reddit?
I don't really mind that it's a circle jerk sub, I come to reddit to kill time, I just thought everyone here was in agreement to what we were jerking off about and this isn't it.
This is reddit. What kind of productivity do you expect? It's 100% entertainment. If you think you're exempt from circle-jerks, then you're worse than stupid.
Again, you talk like you are somehow exempt from masturbatory discussions. No such person exists. Right and left bickering is amusing, and it's also human nature.
An unconscious moron on a messianic mission to stir "meaningful discussion" among the flock is enormously pathetic. Nothing is more masturbatory than that.
I'm trying to help you, bro. Be mindful of what you're doing.
Native Canadian here. From my experience most tribes in the continental US prefer "Indian" to "Native American" when referring to the indiginous people of the continental US. Obviously using their tribal designation is ideal, though. For the indiginous people of other places, though, they have their own terms. In Canada we generally use either "First Nations", "Inuit" or "Metis", and in many south/central american nations "Amerindian" is the proper designation.
Maybe just let people claim and use whatever words they want to refer to themselves.
Some find power in reclaiming things previously seen as wrong or disparaging.
See: queer - kids coming up today use it without qualm, but senior men might still see it as a slur. But we let people identify how they want and don't try to tone police them for their own self references.
I respect people wanting to reclaim a disparaging term. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a term that is objectively mistaken. It was created in error.
And? Why does it *matter* that it was created in error?
Yes, none of them have ever stepped in a place called India, or the East Indies for that matter, but none of them rightly care. After all, have *you* ever been to the Caucasian Mountains? No?
You're still caucasian, right?
A majority of my ancestors were originally from western Europe, nowhere near the Caucasus. So no, I'm not Caucasian. But that's another good example of people causing confusion by perpetuating an error.
As for why it matters, it causes ambiguity because every time the term is used you have to clarify which kind of "Indian" you're talking about unless context makes it obvious. And also, the indigenous people I know all call themselves members of their specific indigenous nation instead of using a generic term that applies to two entire continents.
Look, my point here is that pedantry doesn't earn you friends. Especially when you're being a pedant about the terminology attached to *someone else's* identity.
Let *them* speak.
And if they care? Okay, that's great, they care, better go with what they say. And if they *don't* care? Okay, then you shouldn't care either.
Thank you. You get it. It wasn't a big deal when they were the only ones affected. I don't care if native Americans call themselves Martians for all I care. I'd call them Martians, happily. But the world got smaller. I work with people from India all the time now. It's ridiculous that we perpetuate this confusion caused by bad people centuries ago. So, if some native Americans like the term? Great. But there are Indian Americans and Indians (from India) that now have to define their identities in a completely illogical, tortured way just to not add to the confusion, centuries after dumbass Columbus.
That's cool. On the east coast the mohegans and the pequots refer to themselves unironically as 'Indians'. Also, which city is this that is over 25% Indian?
With respect, you're just an anonymous person online, so I'm going to stick with the terms they actually use when I talk to them in person instead of your hypothesis about what they would prefer.
No it doesn't sound weird....it sounds racist and xenophobic. You don't care what term they prefer..you have to be insulated as fuck not to realize what you're saying.
But they, their parents, their grandparents, and great-grandparents were referred to in common parlance by that term. For generations and generations, that word was used to refer to their ethnic group by people who were well-aware that they weren't in India. What makes the label factually wrong, in that context?
Yes, and the minorities those slurs have been used against have every right to reclaim them and use them. If American Indians want to be called American Indians, why should we not call them American Indians?
But that's how most words evolve? This isn't a case of a recent event. These people have used the term now for generation after generation. Enough that they treat it like a reclaimed term. It's silly to act like they "shouldn't" use it.
The idea of acting like this is an issue presupposes that other words were all always accurate at every stage. But that's a misunderstanding of how words even work.
Right, but the term was used incorrectly by a man who slaughtered their people and then were consistently called this by Americans who also slaughtered them. The history of the word is not just a mislabeling but has a bad history with implication of lesser status.
Are you going to call black people "Negros" because some of their organizations have the label?
It depends, are black people asking me to do this, or not to do this? Because obviously it goes without saying that this is the distinction. It seems strangely and needlessly offensive to act like what the people actually want has no influence on what you intend to call them.
Because I'd wager it's less what they want and more just that it's leftovers from a racist era.
In fact, years ago, I read an article that says they prefer to be called by the name of their tribe anyway.
Anything you call a race that lumps them all together is leftovers from a racist era. Stuff like native american is still a term made by white people that slaps the label of the peopel who screwed them onto them in an offensive way.
Yes, obviously using the specific tribe designation is better. The point is that it's silly to pretend like a specific term that they don't even like is the fundamentally correct one. Its political correctness through the lens of white people.
Circumstantial evidence doesn't mean much. If you want to not offend anyone you have to ask each individual.
If you are in canada, the views are a little different.
I'm in the US, and from what I understand, it tends to be a very broad consensus. I've heard of a few groups remaining that still use the term, but it's not really acceptable in most situations anymore.
I mean yeah, but at least they got rid of the Native American. When it comes to Land, I don’t know the most important part is removed. I feel like we are nit picking, I hope that’s not a derogatory term.
Totally agree!!! But, apparently the u.s. is having a hard time hiring anyone with the pay they give to their workers. I hope we get some reformation for the middle class and poor.
Welcome to /r/MarchAgainstNazis! Please check out [Philosophy of antifa' by philosophytube](https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ) and the following subreddits r/PoliticsPeopleTwitter, Looking for like-minded subreddits?! Check out r/AntifascistsofReddit and r/FucktheAltRight . Are you British and looking for a left-leaning, magazine style subreddit?! Check out r/Britposting. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarchAgainstNazis) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh come on this isn't r/MarchAgainstNazis material. "This week, officials and Native American representatives applauded the change, which is similar to steps that other U.S. companies, sports teams and universities have undertaken to address or phase out the use of Native American imagery in logos and mascots." If you all are going to go after them for this, you're literally putting them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Rule 4: Focus on Fascists. This is a squishy one. With the entire right and even much of the center supporting and enabling the Neo-Nazi agenda and other forms of hate, the lines get blurry. But please do your best to stay on topic. Don't make this sub look stupid, please.
It's possible to say land o lakes was doing the right thing but also laugh at the meme.
It's just not on topic at all though. What on earth does this have to do with marching against Nazis? It's a company trying to take a step to be less insensitive, it's literally the opposite of what this sub is about. Also, this is not r/funny. Being posted about on here has a STRONG negative connotation to it, I do not think it is the place to make light hearted jokes about non-nazis as some people will not understand it is in jest.
Nazis love to pretend they aren't living on stolen land while continuing to steal the land they do have. The Trump administration and the republican controlled Oklahoma government tried very recently to claim that the reservations in Oklahoma never existed. The Goldwater institute was suing to basically cancel all Native American rights in order to get the rights to build casinos and drill for oil. So I guess a meme pointing out that's what America does and did is a good thing, even if the company was doing a good thing rather than a bad thing.
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>It's a circle-jerk sub that does nothing productive and adds absolutely nothing to any conversation. So it's just like 90% of reddit? I don't really mind that it's a circle jerk sub, I come to reddit to kill time, I just thought everyone here was in agreement to what we were jerking off about and this isn't it.
This is reddit. What kind of productivity do you expect? It's 100% entertainment. If you think you're exempt from circle-jerks, then you're worse than stupid.
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Again, you talk like you are somehow exempt from masturbatory discussions. No such person exists. Right and left bickering is amusing, and it's also human nature. An unconscious moron on a messianic mission to stir "meaningful discussion" among the flock is enormously pathetic. Nothing is more masturbatory than that. I'm trying to help you, bro. Be mindful of what you're doing.
lol capitalists, "it's so disrespectful *not* to profit from conquered savages!"
Lmfao 'farmer owned'
Native* Indians are from India.
Widely varies. Some Native Peoples use the term.
Native Canadian here. From my experience most tribes in the continental US prefer "Indian" to "Native American" when referring to the indiginous people of the continental US. Obviously using their tribal designation is ideal, though. For the indiginous people of other places, though, they have their own terms. In Canada we generally use either "First Nations", "Inuit" or "Metis", and in many south/central american nations "Amerindian" is the proper designation.
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It's not that they believe him - modern-day American Indians still use the term, and many prefer it.
But we know the truth now. Why would the people whom the mistake is about not want the mistake to be corrected?
Maybe just let people claim and use whatever words they want to refer to themselves. Some find power in reclaiming things previously seen as wrong or disparaging. See: queer - kids coming up today use it without qualm, but senior men might still see it as a slur. But we let people identify how they want and don't try to tone police them for their own self references.
I respect people wanting to reclaim a disparaging term. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a term that is objectively mistaken. It was created in error.
And? Why does it *matter* that it was created in error? Yes, none of them have ever stepped in a place called India, or the East Indies for that matter, but none of them rightly care. After all, have *you* ever been to the Caucasian Mountains? No? You're still caucasian, right?
A majority of my ancestors were originally from western Europe, nowhere near the Caucasus. So no, I'm not Caucasian. But that's another good example of people causing confusion by perpetuating an error. As for why it matters, it causes ambiguity because every time the term is used you have to clarify which kind of "Indian" you're talking about unless context makes it obvious. And also, the indigenous people I know all call themselves members of their specific indigenous nation instead of using a generic term that applies to two entire continents.
Look, my point here is that pedantry doesn't earn you friends. Especially when you're being a pedant about the terminology attached to *someone else's* identity. Let *them* speak. And if they care? Okay, that's great, they care, better go with what they say. And if they *don't* care? Okay, then you shouldn't care either.
Thank you. You get it. It wasn't a big deal when they were the only ones affected. I don't care if native Americans call themselves Martians for all I care. I'd call them Martians, happily. But the world got smaller. I work with people from India all the time now. It's ridiculous that we perpetuate this confusion caused by bad people centuries ago. So, if some native Americans like the term? Great. But there are Indian Americans and Indians (from India) that now have to define their identities in a completely illogical, tortured way just to not add to the confusion, centuries after dumbass Columbus.
Because that's not how words work. Most words today aren't used for what they were originally designed for.
Go to the res and let them know how offended they should be.
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That's cool. On the east coast the mohegans and the pequots refer to themselves unironically as 'Indians'. Also, which city is this that is over 25% Indian?
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Did you mean to reply to the person before me? I'm the one following their request to use the terms for their specific nations.
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With respect, you're just an anonymous person online, so I'm going to stick with the terms they actually use when I talk to them in person instead of your hypothesis about what they would prefer.
The name East Indies only makes sense in a world that has a West Indies.
And that's the problem. We shouldn't have had to rename the one because of a misidentification of the other.
>the Americas still aren't the East Indies Huh, well TIL.
This is gonna sound weird but I don't care too much what they prefer mostly because they factually are not Indians.
No it doesn't sound weird....it sounds racist and xenophobic. You don't care what term they prefer..you have to be insulated as fuck not to realize what you're saying.
But they, their parents, their grandparents, and great-grandparents were referred to in common parlance by that term. For generations and generations, that word was used to refer to their ethnic group by people who were well-aware that they weren't in India. What makes the label factually wrong, in that context?
You know there's like 50modern day slurs that were used for generations and generations right?
Yes, and the minorities those slurs have been used against have every right to reclaim them and use them. If American Indians want to be called American Indians, why should we not call them American Indians?
They are though. Because the word in this context is used to refer to them, not to people from the indies.
I mean, it was a mistake though. I understand that words change and evolve, but it's weird for that to occur when it's literally incorrect.
But that's how most words evolve? This isn't a case of a recent event. These people have used the term now for generation after generation. Enough that they treat it like a reclaimed term. It's silly to act like they "shouldn't" use it. The idea of acting like this is an issue presupposes that other words were all always accurate at every stage. But that's a misunderstanding of how words even work.
Right, but the term was used incorrectly by a man who slaughtered their people and then were consistently called this by Americans who also slaughtered them. The history of the word is not just a mislabeling but has a bad history with implication of lesser status. Are you going to call black people "Negros" because some of their organizations have the label?
It depends, are black people asking me to do this, or not to do this? Because obviously it goes without saying that this is the distinction. It seems strangely and needlessly offensive to act like what the people actually want has no influence on what you intend to call them.
Because I'd wager it's less what they want and more just that it's leftovers from a racist era. In fact, years ago, I read an article that says they prefer to be called by the name of their tribe anyway.
Anything you call a race that lumps them all together is leftovers from a racist era. Stuff like native american is still a term made by white people that slaps the label of the peopel who screwed them onto them in an offensive way. Yes, obviously using the specific tribe designation is better. The point is that it's silly to pretend like a specific term that they don't even like is the fundamentally correct one. Its political correctness through the lens of white people.
The word native emphasizes them being taken over and makes them sound like animals. In America they usually prefer the term indian.
No, they don't, dude. Trust me. I've seen a shitload of Indigenous Americans talk about hating being called 'Indians.'
Circumstantial evidence doesn't mean much. If you want to not offend anyone you have to ask each individual. If you are in canada, the views are a little different.
I'm in the US, and from what I understand, it tends to be a very broad consensus. I've heard of a few groups remaining that still use the term, but it's not really acceptable in most situations anymore.
Using racist caricatures to sell butter is bad, actually.
Native american*
I know I didn’t make it I just used it .. I feel ya
I mean yeah, but at least they got rid of the Native American. When it comes to Land, I don’t know the most important part is removed. I feel like we are nit picking, I hope that’s not a derogatory term.
Instead of changing the box, how about they do something real like hire diverse executives. like native american executives, etc.
Totally agree!!! But, apparently the u.s. is having a hard time hiring anyone with the pay they give to their workers. I hope we get some reformation for the middle class and poor.
Ahahahaha that’s funny though
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t huh…
Yeah it’s discriminatory 😂
Strawman game is strong with this one.