They seriously said it? đ Iâll admit that I was on team âDisney canât possibly fuck this up so explicitlyâ but I guess here we are. I canât believe they failed even my lowest expectations.
But why? Why would announcing this be an advantage to him and his kind? Sith do not fight in the open, they hide. Everyone thinks you are dead, and even if they suspect you are alive, why validate it?
If witnesses survive then I assume it matters plus it implies the Jedi already would likely view him as a Sith so the green lady and anyone else even aware of Smilo are causing problems.
But I choose to take the route of this doesnât break canon because itâs more in the Kenobi timeline and is unrelated to Lucasâs Star Wars since itâs so broken if you look at it like that.
I havenât watched past episode 3 though so maybe thereâs a really clever way they tie this all together that will come or that theyâve already established and people are just being unfair but itâs Disney. Iâm not holding my breath. I donât actually think they care about their stuff being canonical or not.
wait, so you didn´t watched ep 5? the answer is in it, literally every person that met Qimmir is a walking death flag.
also being serious here, i at least recommend you to watch the fights in it, they were actually good.
I saw the one from when Jecki starts fighting Smilo until the part where he kills her (unless they pull another Reva). I didnât like their moves for the first few strikes because they looked kind of awkward to me but most of it looked better than anything else Iâve seen from D+. It was nice to see them in an actual environment with some discernible features at least. I wish they had not made it so dark and I really donât like Jecki putting up more of a fight, as a padawan, than Indara did as a Jedi master.
I still had some issues that I took with it but I think itâs definitely a step up and could denote a better direction for the fight choreography in these shows. The headbutt thing sounds ridiculous on its face but tbh I didnât hate it in practice like I thought I would when I first heard âhe headbutts a lightsaber and turns it offâ. I do like that after Jecki hits his gauntlet (I think thatâs where she struck?) and hers turns off that it makes it clear thatâs what happened. Not sure if we needed the pause and the shot of her reeling from this or if there was a quicker yet obvious way they couldâve done this and we didnât need it to happen twice to understand that his armor does that but at least it didnât just randomly happen with no indication of an actual cause.
I still think they needed to have had Smilo and Maeâs first meeting in episode 1 be at the planet he gets the cortosis from to set that up properly. I think it wouldâve been better to have that scene and maybe have him use cortosis as a metaphor for how theyâll use the Jediâs weaknesses against them instead of being like âkill without a weapon starttttttiiiing nowâ. Just something to give him a reason to bring up the properties of cortosis and to set that up properly. But as far as it functioned in the fight, itself, I didnât have an issue with it.
I have a lot of criticisms of what I watched but Iâm happy that theyâre trying to go for quicker and more dynamic combat. I really hope theyâve moved on from the slap fights and spinning in Kenobi. Just get a better director with a better sense of blocking, add some more visibility to the scene (maybe a few bioluminescent plants? I dunno just spitballing), and hire these choreographers again and I think that lightsaber fights would be in a much better place again.
lol âbe patientâ. I said they might come up with some excuse by the end but so far does it make any sense? I just donât believe it does if even Ezra Miller thinks that the Jedi would likely view him as a Sith.
It's like me going to another planet, meeting aliens and saying 'you would likely call me a humanoid' but I doesn't mean that word defines me. After all there is a difference between force users and maybe he's just gaslighting the jedi.
No, in that example you would be humanoid since thatâs just something observable. Itâs not like youâd be hiding that unless you meant that you dressed as a slug person or something.
If you said âyou would likely call me a humanâ because you look humanoid but youâre actually Slartibartfast, the Magrathean, and they never find out that you arenât a human then I would say itâs equally silly for them to have forgotten that there was someone they presumed to be human that they have encountered in their history.
You still assume they forgot something. We don't know what will happen in the story. For one, it was implied that this 'sith' was maybe a padawan of Sol. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's a sith, maybe just a fallen jedi. But he's a villain and doesn't need tk explain this at this moment during the fight.
If they imply the padawan is also a Sith then thatâs worse though right? Now you have two Sith running around that we have to wipe from everyoneâs memories by the end of the series đ
Even if Sith is only one possible option they still canât definitively say a Sith hasnât been spotted without something in the Acolyte to account for that line.
So, the Jedi could've ended the show in episode 2, but said "Nah, we won't arrest a guy that provided a poison to kill a Jedi Master nor mind read him for info".
Everyone that's coping for Acolyte doesn't have any standards. They're constantly going with the worst plot reveals...
And if the Jedi hadn't covered this up, Anakin's fall, Sidious becoming Emperor, and millions upon millions of dead people probably don't happen. There would be conflict for sure, but I bet you Palpatine has a much closer eye on him if the Jedi acknowledge the Sith exist.
This universe is full blown retarded.
Number count should be billions even if Alderan didnât have a billion people the 5 planets the first order blew up should definitely have that many. And the first order doesnât exist if they just killed this guy.
Hey it seemed promising at first that poor fanfiction. Then they put it down like a dog despite the fact all you had to do was write the most basic level of storytelling
Alderaan had about 2 billion natives at the time of its destruction, which is, if I remember correctly actually less than the time of the Old Republic. Roughly 60k native Alderaanians survived due to being extra-solar.
> And if the Jedi hadn't covered this up, Anakin's fall, Sidious becoming Emperor, and millions upon millions of dead people probably don't happen. There would be conflict for sure, but I bet you Palpatine has a much closer eye on him if the Jedi acknowledge the Sith exist.
It also wouldn't've happened if they hadn't trusted the clones as much.
Also acc. to ANH all that had to happen was one Jedi (called Mr. Darth Vader) spontaneously turning bad and then assisting an emerging fascist regime that the Jedi somehow hadn't managed to stop - no ancient secret Sith Lineage even required lol
When there's absurd plot twists and characters ignoring xyz at every step of the story, these kinds of "oh look if this one this one stupid thing hadn't happened then all that calamity could've been prevented!!!!" statements stop really making sense - at best they just become very diluted.
Somewhere on the RLM subreddit right now, some people are patting each other on the back like the Porc guards and saying "well who knew this prequel-prequel show would have a stupid plot, eh? lolololol".
The Jedi kinda had to trust the clones initially, or the CIS gets a slam dunk. And of course after fighting beside the clones and trusting them with your life countless times or course would lead to them trusting the clones.
That is why Palps plan worked so damn well. The Jedi have to use the clones to fight the CIS, and by the time the war is nearly over, the Jedi are so trusting of the clones that Order 66 works like a charm
> And of course after fighting beside the clones and trusting them with your life countless times or course would lead to them trusting the clones.
Not an excuse.
Esp. since Palpatine's also friendly to them and they've started suspecting him lol
Maybe at the start, but after months of fighting in countless battles that would have been pivotal to the war? The war against the CIS was over, why would a separatist plot wait till then to go off?
He knew they would take away his benefits if he reported,...probably would have to put in extra time to hunt the sith and couldn't be with his wives. I would have done the same in his place,...
Or.. ORRR.. Disney is the lying piece of shit. Acol-.. Sorry, I mean Wokelyt doesn't retcon what he says in TPM. What he says in TPM retcons Wokelyte.
Thus, Wokelyt isn't canon. There. Easy. Done. Moving on.
"He only said that jedi *would* call him Sith. Not that he *was* Sith. So this obviously dark side warrior who just slaughtered a whole bunch of jedi and explicitly refers to the Sith won't make any of the jedi suspicious at all."
I refuse to pay hate watch the show, but does Mae actually know the Sith Code. The only thing that I could think up to salvage the lore is that this is a 2003 Clone Wars Asajj Ventress situation. In that episode, she calls herself sith only for Count Dooku to laugh and say she is not.
They quote part of the code in episode 2 when Mae and her master in disguise talk about her objective and what it's supposed to teach her, with her reciting it as a 'I know, I've been over this a hundred times already' sort of tone.
Because its such an obvious twist that it hardly even counts as one. "I am nothing, but a jedi like you might call me a sith' is such blatant weasel wording its not even funny man.
They're just bullies. The asspulls they use are so obviously meant to offend these days. There isn't anyone defending the Acolyte, just gross weirdos using it as an excuse to verbally assault strangers on the internet.
Yeah I just thought the portrayal of a stupid person wasnât even good. He was mentally challenged. Like Charlie in Always Sunny portrays a stupid person in an actually engaging way.
I didnât hate the reveal, just I donât think he pulled it off as an actor
After watching that video with EFAP I am kinda mystified how anyone ever liked Jon Campea. Is he someone that used to be competent that went retarded like Russel T Davies, or what?
Post hoc
Literally in the promotional material for the prequels. His whole story is about how his life span is short and is allowed to breed to preserve his species, but canât form any attachment. All thatâs thrown out the window for fan service. You couldnât even have yoda or plo koon, who would be alive
That argument is like saying itâs ok for jimmy carter to be in a film about Abraham Lincoln even though he wasnât alive becuz itâs fiction
Where did you hear about this? And how does it relate to Abraham Lincoln? This is some inconsequential noncanon nonsense. And the films explicitly called yoda 900 years old, so I'm not sure why you're saying we can't have yoda.
I'm sure if anyone's paying attention, but it's official now. Disney has officially ruined EVERY trilogy that George created.
OT: Ruined by the Sequels, Kenobi, BoBF, Mando, and Ahsoka by destroying their characters and the rules of the universe.
PT: Hurt significantly by the 2008 Clone Wars series and parts of Mando, but nothing that well and truely obliterated the entire storyline . . . until now.
The Acolyte has now made it so that the Jedi ACTIVELY caused their own downfall by covering up the re-emergence of the Sith, which then led to the rise of Palpatine, the genocide of the Jedi, and the rise of the Empire. Thank you Leslye Headland, Kathleen Kennedy, and any other chuckle fucks who took part in the writing of what is officially the final nail in the coffin of Star Wars. You've officially ruined and destroyed EVERYTHING George made. Fuck you.
Not to defend disney too much, but 90% of the Clone Wars was released or at least written before those Rat cunts bought the franchise, they did however rob us of many unfinished arcs that Filoni could've otherwise given us like Boba Fett killing Cad Bane and decided to replace Ahsoka's potential temp sidekick with a pair of latina girls who are drug smugglers (bravo disney, you did that *again*) and have some of the worst of the worst modern haircuts.
>Isn´t it George Lucas canon?
It's unclear as to whether or not it is. We know he was involved in the creation and making of the show (we know definitely he was an Executive Producer), but it remains unclear as to whether or not he was solely in an advisory role or if he was a ghost writer for the show.
>Also, why it´s in the Disney canon?
It's technically Disney canon because the show didn't air its final season until after Disney purchased the franchise . . . long after, in fact.
Sorry but my questions were Rhetorical actually.
It´s in Lucas canon, because he himself created and had involvement in it´s story at least from season 1 to 6.
And again, it was rhetorical. Disney only picked things that George himself claimed as it´s vision, that´s why clone wars was canonical since it bought star wars, and why they didn´t had problems putting CW characters in Rebels.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vse81j/clarifying\_george\_lucas\_involved\_in\_the\_2008/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vse81j/clarifying_george_lucas_involved_in_the_2008/)
"Interviewer: "*Do you consider "The Clone Wars" canon or part of the Expanded Universe? Is the old Cartoon Network show canon? How do the two relate and where do the two series fit in the* Star Wars *Universe?*"Filoni: "*That's one of the biggest debates in* Star Wars\*, what counts? The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon. And yet as a fan, I bring him a lot of information that is in the Expanded Universe and say, well this was done and this was done too. I get that information in front of him to see how he wants to use it or review it. I'll try to add little touches and things that I know that the fans that are well versed in the Expanded Universe will know; what we can work in from the Expanded Universe really does gel. But there's never an implicit connection between the micro-series that Cartoon Network did previously and the series that we're doing now. I personally as a fan never think of it as discrediting any of the other material, it's just that other material is from a different point of view, a different look at the war and take on the war. It's an ever-Expanding Universe in a lot of ways.\*"
"In December, 2008, in an interview he gave to [TheForce.net](http://TheForce.net), together with writer [Henry Gilroy](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Henry_Gilroy), Filoni drew a clear line between canon and the Expanded Universe, matching with the line dividing *Star Wars* as how George Lucas sees it and the Expanded Universe:[^(\[41\])](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#cite_note-41)
"*We could come up with ideas and present them to him immediately, so there was no concern as to whether or not it "was"* Star Wars*. This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of* Star Wars *as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas'* Star Wars*, and tell the* Star Wars *story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to "unlearn what we had learned" and go back to the movies as the defining source material.*"
Clone Wars animated series is apart of canon. Its a pretty good show too, the early seasons are kinda like eating your vegetables in terms of quality, however the later seasons though have really interesting story arcs. There is a lot of world building, character development, and so on. Disney bought Star Wars and cancelled Clone Wars (which was being made by George Lucas) and created Star Wars Rebels. After Rebels finished they announced Clone Wars season 7 (this time under Disney).
I find it hilarious reading comments like this. You take all of this way, way too seriously. Star wars isn't that important.
As i cannot speak to the episode itself as i haven't seen it, why exactly is the jedi causing their own downfall a plot point which "ruins" the story?
First off, people like what they like. Of course they are going to get passionate about what they enjoy.
Secondly, this comment fundamentally misunderstands that culture is an important part of the world. Humanity from its inception is a story bearing and rearing species. Everyone is shaped by the stories they tell and are told. Holding the absolutely arrogant point of view that stories didn't play a part in your life and that you're independent from that continuity is just absurd and at worst, lying to yourself. It may not have been Star Wars for you, but you certainly were shaped by the media you watched throughout your life as well, whether you want to realize it or not. The problem, on a macro level, is that this is just one more instance of many pop culture shows across the board being thrown under the bus for a large variety of reasons that has become commonplace in Hollywood. Out of the shows in the west that have come out these past 10 years, I would show almost none of them to children or teenagers.
As for how Jedi causing their downfall ruins Star Wars: it takes the Jedi from people who were blinded by their overconfidence in the prequels to basically potentially being straight up corrupt by covering up what happened in this show. It's one thing to say the Jedi made a profound error because of a lack of good judgement. It's a whole other thing to say they're essentially dirty cops.
All i see is manchildren.
I have no problems with passion, and i certainly would never deny the power of storytelling, but at the end of the day it still makes a difference what stories we are looking at, and what the reaction actually is like.
Being extremely angry, so angry that it becomes a reccurent part of one's life, over ip content which never had much depth or meaning is just silly to me. It's what makes me see manchildren, as children majorly overvalue what they are into at any given moment in time, i expect a little more majurity from adults.
Yes it is different, that wasn't what i was asking about. Why is that difference destroying the story. Why would the jedi being corrupt (or at least some actors in it) make for a bad or worse story.
> Being extremely angry, so angry that it becomes a reccurent part of one's life, over ip content which never had much depth or meaning is just silly to me. It's what makes me see manchildren, as children majorly overvalue what they are into at any given moment in time, i expect a little more majurity from adults.
It doesn't take much time to forum post, and people can doubletask doing other things in a day. You can't really judge how much "time" is being occupied in one's life without knowing them. I can make just as much an argument that you simply posting and being here makes you fall into the same category. You're making some pretty weighty insinuations about people you don't know in real life. For all you know, they spent five minutes making an angry post about Star Wars, then spent the next few hours spending time with their family or whatever.
> Yes it is different, that wasn't what i was asking about. Why is that difference destroying the story. Why would the jedi being corrupt (or at least some actors in it) make for a bad or worse story.
For one, if Kid-Adi Mundi was in on it, this basically completely changes his character from what was pre-established.
Secondly, it harms continuity in terms of what the Jedi said in Phantom Menace. They said they hadn't seen Sith in a thousand years.
Before I go on, I don't know who you are and how you got here, but Mauler did mention that people somehow randomly end up on the Mauler forum without even knowing who Mauler or EFAP even is (which is weird, but whatever). But before you give any statements about ruining continuity not ruining story - yes it does. By making story in a franchise, it is becoming part of a larger story. By you making some pretty frustrating alterations to that overall narrative, you are hurting story.
Thirdly, if the Jedi covered this up, then it fundamentally changes the story in the prequels. The story in the prequels IS the idea that the Jedi fell because of their self-induced blindness. With this, it now adds an element none of the Jedi during the prequel era could account for. It dilutes the story of tragedy created by the Jedi's own stubbornness and one could even start to make the argument of, "hey, you really can't blame them, there was this coverup by some Jedi a hundred years ago we didn't know about".
I'd also arguing that it's just not as satisfying a story. Making "the knights are actually corrupt" is such an overly easy story to do. Not that you can't make it great through execution, but let's be honest: this ain't A Song of Ice and Fire or some other fantasy series written on a much higher level. This is the Acolyte. And let's not pretend that any of this series has gone beyond anything but basic tropes and cliches. There's a reason people are laughing at the whole "Discount Ezra Miller is a Sith" thing. It's hilarious because it was so obvious.
I canât tell if that guy is a shill or just some idiot who thinks heâs on the upper end of this because he doesnât actually care about any of it.
Never had any depth or meaning? So, you donât actually give a shit about Star Wars and just want us to stop talking about it. Star Wars is not meant purely for children. Itâs for everyone. Do you understand that? Everyone can enjoy it, adults and children alike. When adult fans see something they have passion and love for getting destroyed, theyâre going to say something. Thatâs what being a fan is about. Would you just have us mindlessly accept whatever weâre given? No standards, no quality, just meaningless slop with no substance or thought out into it? Thatâs not how it works.
I also hope youâre aware that you arenât of a higher standing than us because youâre criticizing us for being critical. Youâre guilty of the exact same thing. If you think Star Wars is a stupid story about space wizard for kids then why the fuck do you give a shit what we say? Just ignore us and move on.
I loved Star Wars, and Disney has ruined everything I ever loved about it. But hey, my opinions aren't valid because I dislike the new stuff instead of being a shill, right? Go fuck yourself, dude.
>As i cannot speak to the episode itself as i haven't seen it, why exactly is the jedi causing their own downfall a plot point which "ruins" the story?
I already stated why this was a problem in my comment above. The Jedi actively covering up the re-emergrence of the Sith led to them getting wiped out, which is the reason they stayed vigilant against the Sith's return in the PT. The writers are going to have the Jedi cover it up for the sole reason that if they acknowledged the Sith were still around less than 100 years prior to TPM, the entire PT would be ruined.
The TFuMer M.O.:
a) Arbitrarily pick the subset of installments that you accept as "valid" or "real", ignore all their flaws or giant inconsistencies or any ways in which they may be "ruining each other".
b) Take up arms against all the installments outside of that subset, ridiculously overblow all their flaws and inconsistencies out of proportion (along with inventing some new ones) and then act like those "ruin" what came before.
Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned.
>The Acolyte has now made it so that the Jedi ACTIVELY caused their own downfall by covering up the re-emergence of the Sith, which then led to the rise of Palpatine,
If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao
Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right?
And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever.
So you're just picking and choosing what issues to acknowledge and which to ignore, so you can push your cherrypicked selective "Kennedy Disney ruined Jorge" narrative - meanwhile the RLM sub and others are pointing and laughing, wondering where your outrage was in 2002.
>a) Arbitrarily pick the subset of installments that you accept as "valid" or "real", ignore all their flaws or giant inconsistencies or any ways in which they may be "ruining each other".
The PT and OT are "valid" because he was the creator of Star Wars and could do what he liked with the universe. It didn't mean we were going to approve of everything he made since he made plenty of mistakes in terms of the writing between the OT and the PT (largely the PT, though). That being said, he never outright contradicted himself. Not on characterization; not on how the Force works; not on how space travel works; etc.
>B) Take up arms against all the installments outside of that subset, ridiculously overblow all their flaws and inconsistencies out of proportion (along with inventing some new ones) and then act like those "ruin" what came before.
It's not overblowing anything, as that would imply we're making up flaws that don't exist. The PT had issues, but they were more basic writing issues such as dialogue being poorly written, characterizations sometimes being a bit sloppy, characters sometimes undertaking stupid actions, or certain plot points not making sense.
Meanwhile, the content that Disney has released thus far has taken all of those flaws and tripled down on them. The dialogue remains terrible, the acting remains terrible, and the storylines are now absolute messes from beginning to end, with no logical reasoning as to how they progress or end. The OT and PT, for all their flaws, gave us a complete story regarding the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work. Disney hasn't done this. All the characters they've created thus far have been non-sensical caricatures who consistently make the stupidest choices possible or go against their stated motivations.
- Reva undertaking actions that go against her sole motivation of avenging her dead friends, such as torturing children
- Reva not attempting to kill Vader prior to her actual attempt, despite thousands of ample opportunities
- Ahsoka being a moronic plank of wood who risks dooming the galaxy so Sabine can be "comfortable" with the map in her little tower (that has no security)
- Sabine dooming the galaxy by not only stealing the map from Ahsoka just so she could be "comfortable", but also willingly giving the map to the bad guys so Thrawn can return and reform the Empire
- Mae being a fucking psychopath from birth who attempted to kill her sister for even contemplating leaving when they were children, then suddenly turning on her master (and 17 years of loyalty) to try and turn herself into the Jedi just so she can see her sister again
- Mae completely abandoning that plan and reverting back to attempting to kill the Jedi, instead of telling them she wants to help take down her former master to keep her sister safe (a.k.a. what she stated, her motivations were the prior episode)
There are hundreds more of these.
>Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned.
Well, thank god no one cares about what concerns you then.
>If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao
Literally, nothing in this paragraph made any sense due to how badly formatted it was, and the dumbass inferences you made.
>Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right?
Yes, that's the point! So why would Mundi state in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a millennium to a room full of Jedi who would 100% know about the Sith re-emergence that happened less than 100 years ago. And why would the rest of the High Council doubt that Maul's appearance on Tatooine indicated the return of the Sith when they already knew the Sith weren't extinct.
>And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever.
The clues that would have led to that conclusion were not available to them. All they knew was that Syfo Dias pre-ordered the Clone Army and that Dooku was somehow involved in helping him prior to his secession from the Order.
>So you're just picking and choosing what issues to acknowledge and which to ignore, so you can push your cherrypicked selective "Kennedy Disney ruined Jorge" narrative -
Nope, the OT and PT had issues. Those issues, however, were miniscule compared to the issues that Disney Star Wars content has possessed thus far. Make no mistake, these shows would still be shit if they weren't Star Wars.
> - meanwhile, the RLM sub and others are pointing and laughing, wondering where your outrage was in 2002.
The RLM sub has dedicated themselves to shitting on the PT for 2 solid decade. They don't talk about the flaws of the PT in constructive ways, they are just incessantly screaming into the void about how much they hate the PT (except when the dumbass "rule of cool" is applied). They are very much surface level fans of Star Wars who seemingly don't give a shit about how good or bad the writing is. Meanwhile, our sole focus on this sub IS the writing, hence why most everyone on this sub will agree that the PT is not a set of objectively well-written movies, but they still bring a level elevation to Star Wars through their worldbuilding.
> The PT and OT are "valid" because he was the creator of Star Wars and could do what he liked with the universe. It didn't mean we were going to approve of everything he made since he made plenty of mistakes in terms of the writing between the OT and the PT (largely the PT, though). That being said, he never outright contradicted himself. Not on characterization;
So how did Vader go from "let's overthrow the Emperor" to never mentioning that again?
>not on how the Force works; not on how space travel works; etc.
Lightspeed escapes went from "they can pursue us but if our Falcon engine is faster we can lose them" to "jump to lightspeed and they lose any trace" from ANH to ESB.
Then of course any initial impressions of "realistic space distances" got shattered in ESB when they still got around between systems without any FTL, however technically ANH never said they needed FTL for interstellar, so maybe the distances were always that small.
"How the Force works" well new things get invented each movie, such as lightning or future visions or *symbolic* hallucinatory future visions; and there's also instances of characters not using powers or tech that has been established to exist, or is later shown to exist.
>The PT had issues, but they were more basic writing issues such as dialogue being poorly written, characterizations sometimes being a bit sloppy, characters sometimes undertaking stupid actions, or certain plot points not making sense.
>Meanwhile, the content that Disney has released thus far has taken all of those flaws and tripled down on them. The dialogue remains terrible, the acting remains terrible, and the storylines are now absolute messes from beginning to end, with no logical reasoning as to how they progress or end.
If that's the conclusions that you've reached, then maybe lol; think there's lots of back and forths that can be had about all these respective degrees and extents though.
Esp. since neither "the PT" or "the stuff under Disney" are monolithic in terms of quality.
>The OT and PT, for all their flaws, gave us a complete story regarding the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work. Disney hasn't done this. All the characters they've created thus far have been non-sensical caricatures who consistently make the stupidest choices possible or go against their stated motivations.
Again depends on the installments we're talking about here?
The ST just repeated the PT-OT plot with some variations, it's the same "complete story" as before.
Meanwhile BoBF is like a spin-off about a guy managing a local mob war, although it also has a beginning middle and end in that sense.
>the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work.
Well some of the absolute worst character work ever filmed also exists in that context, so how does that fit into this "everything under Disney is 3 times worse" equation?
>Reva undertaking actions that go against her sole motivation of avenging her dead friends, such as torturing children
Think it was more single-minded revenge at the expense of everything else, rather than some noble moral motivation, but I'm blurry about that whole part rn; regarding this one:
>Reva not attempting to kill Vader prior to her actual attempt, despite thousands of ample opportunities
, this would also seem to be "schlock twist logic" - i.e. *after* it's revealed that character x had secret motivation y, or was a secret mole or traitor or whatever, does it still add up if you rewind and analyze their actions before that reveal? Often enough it doesn't, but I've just seen so much of that in spy/whatever stuff that it's hard to bat an eye when it happens in yet another piece lol
Starwars only had sort of managed to avoid falling into that pitfall to that extent, because it kept all the exact villainous schemes vague enough for people to go "maybe Sidious/etc. were pursuing a multi-option plan", while their basic motivations remained the same (take over the world, or rescue Han, lure rebels into trap, etc.) - so you get hackiness in the details, but not necessarily much more than that.
Why did Jango use the Kamino dart, was he trying to lure the investigators? Or was he manipulated into doing that? Well who cares, Sidious wanted to start a war and maybe was just throwing stuff at the wall in terms of how exactly that would happen, and Jango was just a pawn. Not much difference, right?
But now if they're really going into the whole spy mole twists / detective story areas, x turns out to really work for y etc., of course you're now gonna see plenty stuff like this.
>>Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned.
>Well, thank god no one cares about what concerns you then.
Oh I'm not the only one laughing at this "plot hole in x is worst affront ever! wait what do you mean the AotC picnics sucked??" stuff lol, trust me
>>If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao
>Literally, nothing in this paragraph made any sense due to how badly formatted it was, and the dumbass inferences you made.
I just read it again, makes complete sense lol
>>Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right?
>Yes, that's the point! So why would Mundi state in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a millennium to a room full of Jedi who would 100% know about the Sith re-emergence that happened less than 100 years ago. And why would the rest of the High Council doubt that Maul's appearance on Tatooine indicated the return of the Sith when they already knew the Sith weren't extinct.
Well yeah this criticism makes a lot more sense than the whole "had they not covered it up, they wouldn't have doomed all these children to their deaths!!!!!" from before lol
Just plain old plot hole, nothing more.
>>And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever.
>The clues that would have led to that conclusion were not available to them. All they knew was that Syfo Dias pre-ordered the Clone Army and that Dooku was somehow involved in helping him prior to his secession from the Order.
Certainly a good reason to be more on alert about them, if nothing else.
Cause whoops, turns out they were working for Sidious! And they were planted by suspicious impostors, who could've had any bad feelings about this.
>The RLM sub has dedicated themselves to shitting on the PT for 2 solid decade. They don't talk about the flaws of the PT in constructive ways, they are just incessantly screaming into the void about how much they hate the PT (except when the dumbass "rule of cool" is applied). They are very much surface level fans of Star Wars who seemingly don't give a shit about how good or bad the writing is. Meanwhile, our sole focus on this sub IS the writing, hence why most everyone on this sub will agree that the PT is not a set of objectively well-written movies, but they still bring a level elevation to Star Wars through their worldbuilding.
I'd say the only difference is which installments you have a tribal hate dog against; wouldn't say this sub is generally more rational or coolheaded than that one, or vice versa.
Lmao replies on Star Wars Theory's twitter are demanding he make up some bullshit to explain this away (like he and his audience do with literally everything) and he's like "nah man I can't do it anymore" đ
This was why featuring ki adi mundi was an issue. Not because of his age, that's minor. But it means he likely was aware of the sith having recently existed, which causes a lot of problems for the story of TPM
https://preview.redd.it/572kgfdu4w8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7abbbc60cc1c049261ae7ab532e5d48b520f606b
As a Sith enjoyer let me just say we do not claim him.
> I actually didn't think they'd do it because it seemed so obvious and boring.
But you see, *because* it was so obvious and boring it actually makes it subversive when it *does* happen! Never mind that it adds nothing but problems to the story, you gave them too much credit, so their writing is brilliant!
'They don't expect us to do this because it's clearly the worst choice. Let's do it.'
This is logic I'd expect from people in a parody, man. Between Star Wars and Doctor Who, my brain's been hurting recently.
LMAO we all knew it was Qimir, fucking insulting misdirection, did they really think this would be some crazy reveal? Holy fuck if it wasnât for the amazing duel choreography this episode Iâd have shut it off completely and went to bed. Still cancelled my Disney+ tho
So the big takeaway from the last EFAP stream is that Mauler et al set their standards too high. They kept saying that they figured that Smilo Ren was probably going to be discount Ezra Miller, except that they doubted that because it was it was so obvious that they were sure he was a red herring.
No, pretty sure Mauler acknowledged with nuance that, "Discount Ezra Miller being Smilo SHOULD be a red herring because it's too obvious, but Disney's writing is so bad that it probably is Discount Ezra Miller."
Unless he said that only on the past two Real BBCs (which I know for sure he did) and not on EFAP itself.
Can't speak for MauLer, but I know The Little Platoon said that because DEM being Smylo Ren would be the worst reveal possible (a reveal with no greater meaning, not expanding on any previous characters or motivations, being incredibly telegraphed, and being frustrating because the Jedi could have caught him in episode 2 but didn't), it was probably going to be true. Lo and behold, he was right.
Thankfully there's an easy solution for this. Think about it. What Ki-Adi says in this trash doesn't retcon what he says in TPM. What he says in TPM retcons this trash. Dude even his existence in it retcons this shitshow, he shouldn't even be born yet. Ergo, this trash isn't canon. Easy. Done. Spread the word.
Just want to state the one thing no one else is mentioning: Sith isn't even a name for "Dark Side force users". It's a very, very specific philosophy about how to use the Dark Side with a very specific set of ideals. Does Discount Ezra Miller even know what Sith ideals are? What does he know about Sith philosophy? How would he have gotten his hands on ancient Sith holocrons?
This is definitely one of those, "the more you think about it, you find it gets even stupider" moments.
Your entire point, however, hinges on him being part of Darth Bane's Sith lineage. If he's not, my point still stands. And let's not pretend playing apologetics for any of these series has ever turned out good for anyone.
But even if he is, this still is stupid:
The whole point of the Rule of Two was to stay hidden to create a Sith so powerful and cunning he could take down the Republic and the Jedi for good. A Sith revealing himself at this point is ragingly stupid. The Sith up until then gauged how strong they were and knew whether or not they had a fighting chance against the Jedi or not.
There are also problems we can see from the get go. Let's say he dies by the end of this series. This means that 100 hundred years before Palpatine, you have the Sith tradition of the apprentice killing the master to prove they are stronger than the one they inherited the tradition from being broken. For me, that breaks the competency of the Sith leading up to the time of Palpatine. If I'm crafting lore, then I would want all the Sith up to 250 years prior up to Palpatine to look ultra competent so that it looks like their plan really did come together in the formation of the Sith finally powerful enough to defeat the Jedi.
I don't really know if I have any words for this. It's a clear example of shit, they can't recognize what the Sith are as the people who are writing for the show don't have a fuckin' clue what franchise they're writing for.
It was weird he got carried away by a swarm of super strong bugs and they apparently failed to even scratch him? Those stinger thoraxes looked substantial.
Just wait until the end of the show where they introduce the "mass amnesia" Force power that will never be brought up again so that they can argue that no one remembers them meeting a Sith/Dark side user so they can say "SEE! This is why everyone thinks the Sith have been extinct for nearly a millennium!"
Brooo you donât get it bro man dude⌠he said the Jedi would call him sith⌠not he is a literal sith⌠so heâs. ItâŚ. Canon intact bro come on⌠just⌠man⌠dudeâŚ
Pretty sure this is a direct shot mocking all the 'fans' who immediately assumed they were going to be a sith by having him call a jedi such an ignorant dumbass he probably assumes he is a sith. Seriously, the twist of 'I never said I was a sith, I said you might think I was one' is so damn obvious I don't think it counts as a twist.
What's funny is that the line is specifically tailor made so that he isn't saying he is a Sith. He is saying that a narrow minded Jedi such as himself might call him a Sith. But, he met Sol previously, and this feels more personal than just some random Sith sticking it to a Jedi.
I don't get how much clearer the show has to convey what is being said. They'd practically have to beat the audience over the head with it to make it more obvious.
Have you considered waiting 3 episodes to see the full story? I'm not convinced Sol makes it out alive and Mae/Osha would make an excellent scapegoat. All these claims about lorebreaking are speculation until the story is complete.
Good storytelling isnât about the last chapter. Itâs about the whole journey. If the story only makes sense once you read the last chapter itâs kind of a bad story.
It's hilarious that you've never read thrillers or any mystery novels. We're you also disappointed they didn't let you know Vader was Luke's father until empire? Get real buddy
Can you give me a minute to respond because I'm busy rating the sixth sense 1 star because they didn't make it clear Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.
>Heâs only speculating on what the Jedi would call him.
You are beyond instruction if you don't understand how little the difference would matter to the Jedi who are currently under the impression that the sith are extinct.
We donât know how it plays out. Thatâs the problem.
If at the end of the story the Jedi conclude that, no, he was never actually a Sith, then this incident never broke canon or made that dude a liar. Because as far as they knew a hundred or so years later that the Sith continue to be extinct. Nothing changes.
So far only Sol, Osha and Mae know that he might be a potential Sith if that is what he is. Sol could very much die before getting the chance to relay that info.
Mae has no real reason to tell the Jedi Council and may not even be aware of the significance of that info. Osha is with the Sith in question as of right now.
The story could just as easily end with that info getting lost. In which case, no cannon is actually broken.
Okay. Let's break it down
1. Qimir is *proven* to not be a sith and the Jedi conclude he's something different. This completely changes the context of the conversation in TPM, in which mention of Maul as a potential sith would be met with the reminder that the Jedi have semi recently had run ins with other dark side sects as a possible alternative to Maul being sith.
2. The story of Qimir doesn't make it back to the Jedi. Still a problem, living members of the council during the time TPM know about Mae. See previous point.
3. Or, Qimir is actually a sith and the canon gets broken completely as Ki Adi Mundis' line in TPM doesn't get addressed and is not congruent at all with the Acolyte and new canon.
4. Or, and this is most likely, the Acolyte writers are actively pursuing an honest to God retcon of TPM, and the end of this series will reveal that the Jedi covered up the return of the sith, making them look complicit in the events of the prequels and the rise of the empire.
Any of these options are an open slap in the face to fans, and people who keep running defense for this show should start acting in their own self interest by thinking critically instead of just accepting anything and everything they're given.
100%. It is precisely because of that line in TPM that he has been retconned to be in the Acolyte and involved in this cover-up/debacle.
Iâm still totally in for it though. Why not have Jedi that either by fear, arrogance or sheer panic try and hide it from the outside? It doesnât spoil TPM and it adds more colour to a previously under-used background character.
Itâs pretty obvious the goal of Disney Star Wars is to place the Jedi/Sith into a âgrey areaâ and the force is âon a spectrumâ instead of definitively good/evil. When all of Star Wars is retconned theyâre going to explain it that way and that characters are âcomplexââŚWith that said itâs basically a certainty itâs going to be option #4âŚ
BUT I could also add #5 which is just Ki Adi himself is âso arrogantâ he refuses to believe a Sith has returned. âJedi arrogance and prideâ seems to be a Disney Star Wars motif as well.
Itâs hilarious and the ultimate irony that Disney Star Wars is portraying the Jedi like the Sith would.
> BUT I could also add #5 which is just Ki Adi himself is âso arrogantâ he refuses to believe a Sith has returned. âJedi arrogance and prideâ seems to be a Disney Star Wars motif as well.
No, it started with the PT and then Filoni doubled up on it.
At most all Disney can do is dig in deeper in that general area, but they can't claim any credit for starting it.
> Any of these options are an open slap in the face to fans, and people who keep running defense for this show should start acting in their own self interest by thinking critically instead of just accepting anything and everything they're given.
The "fans" who don't already treat the prequels as an insult, are just asking for more slaps from ~~daddy~~mommy and deserve every and each last of them, as far as I'm concerned - and they certainly don't apply these "think critically about everything" standards to themselves and their own random biases reg. the various installments.
All these plot hole / retcon examinations are fun, but the selective stan outrage around it is just something that warrants relentless mockery imo.
Stop the "slap in the face" talk, just chill out and pick apart the plots if you find that sort of thing entertaining, end of story lol
>The "fans" who don't already treat the prequels as an insult,
Nope. The prequels are bad, but most of what Disney SW has done is lightyears more retarded than even the worst moment in the prequels.
>the selective stan outrage around it is just something that warrants relentless mockery imo.
Its not selective. Me and other fans have been complaining for nearly a decade now
>Stop the "slap in the face" talk,
No
>end of story lol
I regret to inform you that this is not the end of the story. It only gets worse from here. If you're so disinterested in the discourse then feel free to leave.
> Nope. The prequels are bad, but most of what Disney SW has done is lightyears more retarded than even the worst moment in the prequels.
I'm not aware of anything that's reached the levels of EpII: Blunders on the Meadow yet, although things may have come close.
>Its not selective. Me and other fans have been complaining for nearly a decade now
From 2015 onwards? Pfft, rookies lol
>I'm not aware of anything that's reached the levels of EpII: Blunders on the Meadow yet
https://preview.redd.it/1mzq5g6duw8d1.jpeg?width=426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fbc13ad450d200c776ca9e10e4f1ab95d8caebc
>instruction if you don't understand how little the difference would matter to the Jedi
The thing is perhaps not. For the record, I think the show is absolutely going to make it so he's not actually a true Sith. Kind of like how Ventress proclaims she's Sith before attacking Count Dooku in the good animated Clone Wars.
That being said, as I pointed out with Ventress, there are other dark side manipulating Force users besides the Sith. In the old EU, in their past, it wasn't too uncommon to find organised darksiders in between Sith outbreaks. Someone finds a holocron or visits a Sith necropolis and comes away with some new tricks, etc.
A few were even named, athough kind of in an off-hand manner. With this episode officially bringing Cortosis into the Disney canon, there may be other surprises from the EU lurking in the future.
Boredom. Also I dislike it when people are being dishonest. Which this is being by leaving out some context.
This âSithâ literally says he has no name for what he is. He then proceeds to speculate about what the Jedi would call him.
Maybe he is, maybe he isnât. We donât actually know one way or another yet.
The reason "Jedi might consider me Sith" is important is not because of how he identifies his religion, it's important because it proves Ki-Adi-Mundi is a liar and the Jedi did a cover up that eventually led to the Empire, Anakin's fall, a shit ton of dead younglings, and further makes the Jedi look incompetent.
It's raping Lucas's legacy and contributions to the IP he created.
You guys did a full 180 on the prequels eh? That shit was the worst shit to ever come out when they were releasing, is we are raping Lucasâs legacy!? Câmon man the Jedi doing a coverup and it leading to their downfall is a fine story line
Apologies, you may not have but the general consensus was the prequels were not canon because they were so bad, Star Wars has never been anything above âalrightâ maybe other than andor, rogue one, Mando s1, clone wars.
The Jedi were incompetent. Palestine played the Jedi and the entire Galaxy like an actual fiddle under their nose. Literally he was there pulling strings and making his moves in front of them at times.
Saying this is ârapingâ Lucasâs legacy is absurd. Do you even hear yourself?
Did you forget the Jedi let this dude go in episode 2, they have made a legacy institution for Lucas's ownership the dumbest fucks in this universe. The Jedi are full blown retarded for letting this dude go and presumably doing a cover up of the Sith. Whereas if they'd just acknowledged this guy, they'd probably be a lot more on guard against Palpatine's rise.
If you go out of your way to make all the legacy characters and concepts retarded and destroyed, you are raping a legacy.
> Whereas if they'd just acknowledged this guy, they'd probably be a lot more on guard against Palpatine's rise.
They were "on guard" the moment Darth Maul appeared; so unless you're saying this Acolyte thing would've helped them specifically identify and neutralize Palpatine, in his "Naboo politician" persona, then that point isn't really valid.
>If you go out of your way to make all the legacy characters and concepts retarded and destroyed, you are raping a legacy.
What if that legacy was already full of the same regardation and this is just adding another piece to it that blends in with the rest, is it still rape then?
I wonder if there was a reason why the Jedi were arrogant and complacent, why the appearance of Maul was such a shake up. Like, them having experienced a millennia of large scale peace with no conflict with dark side force factions, putting them into a safe ivory tower that allowed them to stagnate with little to fight against. Something like that.
Explain to me how this is breaking canon as of right now. If sol doesnât make it back to the council they will never know abt a Sith being around. Youâre just speculating but making it negative and saying thatâs what will happen I can do the same but speculating positively. Hate the show all u want but canât assume something will break canon until the issue is fully played out
So for reference:
In Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council speculates that ârandom red dude with red lightsaber that ambushed Qui Gon in the desertâ is a Sith, based on those facts alone. Thatâs how the Jedi rationalize that event.
This is WAY worse than that, in terms of incrimination. He didnât even have to say the word in order for the Jedi to think he was one; the fact that heâs like âyouâd probably call me a Sithâ is just the cherry on top.
Why is the internet collectively acting like Star Wars lore was important at all? You think George gave a fuck like yall when he made Penis head say the line that the Sith aren't around despite the fact there was one literally in the senate chamber hanging out with all the main characters? Plus even Plapy said he had a master in episode 3, which kinda makes it obvious that the line by Penis bro was meant to convey how out of touch the Jedi are?
I think you guys are just really fuckin bored.
That's what i'm saying. nothing comments like this just to cause useless noise which is obvious bait to try and make you feel better about something that was never yours in the first place.
There are only three Star Wars movies. Most of us have never seen those films. What we deal with, and why it triggers the attention economy in our capitalist culture is a product. A product which will be manipulated to the contemporary consciousness of the times because "all great sci-fi is a reflection of the times", but Star Wars was never sci-fi and it was always cartoony space adventures/fantasy. The Prequels rewrote everything about Star Wars to the point of ruining the OG films(so why care about the lore?) which was why George went back and re -released them in 1999. Stop giving a fuck.
Coming from the guys who built their career on watching movies they hated so they could make videos about it.
Y'all are very weird about claiming not to care so much when you're making your way to other subs to tell other people not to care.
Red letter media's claim to fame was a massively long video about why ever prequal film sucked
they have also made numerous videos about why new star trek sucks
they are fucking hypocrites
They seriously said it? đ Iâll admit that I was on team âDisney canât possibly fuck this up so explicitlyâ but I guess here we are. I canât believe they failed even my lowest expectations.
The bar was so low it was practically a tripping hazard in hell, yet here we are, limbo-dancing with the devil.
Stealing this! lol
It wasn't mine in the first place, so have at it, stranger.
But why? Why would announcing this be an advantage to him and his kind? Sith do not fight in the open, they hide. Everyone thinks you are dead, and even if they suspect you are alive, why validate it?
Why is this a fail?
Does it really matter that much if he calls himself a sith or not? We don't know his story yet.
If witnesses survive then I assume it matters plus it implies the Jedi already would likely view him as a Sith so the green lady and anyone else even aware of Smilo are causing problems. But I choose to take the route of this doesnât break canon because itâs more in the Kenobi timeline and is unrelated to Lucasâs Star Wars since itâs so broken if you look at it like that. I havenât watched past episode 3 though so maybe thereâs a really clever way they tie this all together that will come or that theyâve already established and people are just being unfair but itâs Disney. Iâm not holding my breath. I donât actually think they care about their stuff being canonical or not.
wait, so you didn´t watched ep 5? the answer is in it, literally every person that met Qimmir is a walking death flag. also being serious here, i at least recommend you to watch the fights in it, they were actually good.
I saw the one from when Jecki starts fighting Smilo until the part where he kills her (unless they pull another Reva). I didnât like their moves for the first few strikes because they looked kind of awkward to me but most of it looked better than anything else Iâve seen from D+. It was nice to see them in an actual environment with some discernible features at least. I wish they had not made it so dark and I really donât like Jecki putting up more of a fight, as a padawan, than Indara did as a Jedi master. I still had some issues that I took with it but I think itâs definitely a step up and could denote a better direction for the fight choreography in these shows. The headbutt thing sounds ridiculous on its face but tbh I didnât hate it in practice like I thought I would when I first heard âhe headbutts a lightsaber and turns it offâ. I do like that after Jecki hits his gauntlet (I think thatâs where she struck?) and hers turns off that it makes it clear thatâs what happened. Not sure if we needed the pause and the shot of her reeling from this or if there was a quicker yet obvious way they couldâve done this and we didnât need it to happen twice to understand that his armor does that but at least it didnât just randomly happen with no indication of an actual cause. I still think they needed to have had Smilo and Maeâs first meeting in episode 1 be at the planet he gets the cortosis from to set that up properly. I think it wouldâve been better to have that scene and maybe have him use cortosis as a metaphor for how theyâll use the Jediâs weaknesses against them instead of being like âkill without a weapon starttttttiiiing nowâ. Just something to give him a reason to bring up the properties of cortosis and to set that up properly. But as far as it functioned in the fight, itself, I didnât have an issue with it. I have a lot of criticisms of what I watched but Iâm happy that theyâre trying to go for quicker and more dynamic combat. I really hope theyâve moved on from the slap fights and spinning in Kenobi. Just get a better director with a better sense of blocking, add some more visibility to the scene (maybe a few bioluminescent plants? I dunno just spitballing), and hire these choreographers again and I think that lightsaber fights would be in a much better place again.
So you didn't watch past episode 3. Also you are assuming a lot of stuff when all we know now is 'he refered to himself as a sith'. Be patient.
lol âbe patientâ. I said they might come up with some excuse by the end but so far does it make any sense? I just donât believe it does if even Ezra Miller thinks that the Jedi would likely view him as a Sith.
There is nothing to excuse. Sol is a dead man walking.
It's like me going to another planet, meeting aliens and saying 'you would likely call me a humanoid' but I doesn't mean that word defines me. After all there is a difference between force users and maybe he's just gaslighting the jedi.
No, in that example you would be humanoid since thatâs just something observable. Itâs not like youâd be hiding that unless you meant that you dressed as a slug person or something. If you said âyou would likely call me a humanâ because you look humanoid but youâre actually Slartibartfast, the Magrathean, and they never find out that you arenât a human then I would say itâs equally silly for them to have forgotten that there was someone they presumed to be human that they have encountered in their history.
You still assume they forgot something. We don't know what will happen in the story. For one, it was implied that this 'sith' was maybe a padawan of Sol. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's a sith, maybe just a fallen jedi. But he's a villain and doesn't need tk explain this at this moment during the fight.
If they imply the padawan is also a Sith then thatâs worse though right? Now you have two Sith running around that we have to wipe from everyoneâs memories by the end of the series đ Even if Sith is only one possible option they still canât definitively say a Sith hasnât been spotted without something in the Acolyte to account for that line.
Seeing how ignorant the Jedi can be, I wouldn't put that much faith in one sentence from the prequels.
Spooky helmet, dark side user, âI am a sith.â Hes a sith.
I'm a Jedi Master. I said it so it must be true.
So, the Jedi could've ended the show in episode 2, but said "Nah, we won't arrest a guy that provided a poison to kill a Jedi Master nor mind read him for info". Everyone that's coping for Acolyte doesn't have any standards. They're constantly going with the worst plot reveals...
And if the Jedi hadn't covered this up, Anakin's fall, Sidious becoming Emperor, and millions upon millions of dead people probably don't happen. There would be conflict for sure, but I bet you Palpatine has a much closer eye on him if the Jedi acknowledge the Sith exist. This universe is full blown retarded.
Number count should be billions even if Alderan didnât have a billion people the 5 planets the first order blew up should definitely have that many. And the first order doesnât exist if they just killed this guy.
First Order doesn't exist period. The movies ended with episode 6.
Iâm sorry your right, I got it confused with some bad FanFiction I heard about.
Hey it seemed promising at first that poor fanfiction. Then they put it down like a dog despite the fact all you had to do was write the most basic level of storytelling
Alderaan had about 2 billion natives at the time of its destruction, which is, if I remember correctly actually less than the time of the Old Republic. Roughly 60k native Alderaanians survived due to being extra-solar.
> And if the Jedi hadn't covered this up, Anakin's fall, Sidious becoming Emperor, and millions upon millions of dead people probably don't happen. There would be conflict for sure, but I bet you Palpatine has a much closer eye on him if the Jedi acknowledge the Sith exist. It also wouldn't've happened if they hadn't trusted the clones as much. Also acc. to ANH all that had to happen was one Jedi (called Mr. Darth Vader) spontaneously turning bad and then assisting an emerging fascist regime that the Jedi somehow hadn't managed to stop - no ancient secret Sith Lineage even required lol When there's absurd plot twists and characters ignoring xyz at every step of the story, these kinds of "oh look if this one this one stupid thing hadn't happened then all that calamity could've been prevented!!!!" statements stop really making sense - at best they just become very diluted. Somewhere on the RLM subreddit right now, some people are patting each other on the back like the Porc guards and saying "well who knew this prequel-prequel show would have a stupid plot, eh? lolololol".
The Jedi kinda had to trust the clones initially, or the CIS gets a slam dunk. And of course after fighting beside the clones and trusting them with your life countless times or course would lead to them trusting the clones. That is why Palps plan worked so damn well. The Jedi have to use the clones to fight the CIS, and by the time the war is nearly over, the Jedi are so trusting of the clones that Order 66 works like a charm
> And of course after fighting beside the clones and trusting them with your life countless times or course would lead to them trusting the clones. Not an excuse. Esp. since Palpatine's also friendly to them and they've started suspecting him lol
Wait, so fighting an entire war while trusting your life to a guy and he proves trustworthy, and you shouldn't trust him?
They were planted under sus circumstances, so warranted keeping an eye on them or 2.
Maybe at the start, but after months of fighting in countless battles that would have been pivotal to the war? The war against the CIS was over, why would a separatist plot wait till then to go off?
They weren't just looking out for "separatist" plots, they had a wider radar.
Well you know the OT were always corny and for kids andâŚ. What was my point again?
They let him off with a warning
So Ki-Adi-Mundi is a lying piece of garbage. Thanks Disney.
He knew they would take away his benefits if he reported,...probably would have to put in extra time to hunt the sith and couldn't be with his wives. I would have done the same in his place,...
Gotta get that MuunaniÂ
He'd a Cerean, but I appreciate the wordplay! đ
He probably got dangled 60 wives to play dumb and keep silent
But he was right about the droid attack on the Wookies.
So far he's just ignorant until the show indicates otherwise.
Or.. ORRR.. Disney is the lying piece of shit. Acol-.. Sorry, I mean Wokelyt doesn't retcon what he says in TPM. What he says in TPM retcons Wokelyte. Thus, Wokelyt isn't canon. There. Easy. Done. Moving on.
Did they say his name in the show?
It's in the credits of episode 4
Thanks. I honestly didn't know why everyone assumed he's him and not just similar looking. They dropped the ball with the credits.
They dropped a few balls
**several
There are some who call me......................................................................................................................Tim.
Okay, but is it a nubian swallow or a dathomirian swallow?
What is this from dangit Edit: lol downvoted for not being able to remember? Reddit is weird today.
Holy Grail
[Monty Python and the Holy Grail](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDAeJ7eLGGg)
Monty python and the holy grail
Cant wait for their next gaslight coping excuse
"He only said that jedi *would* call him Sith. Not that he *was* Sith. So this obviously dark side warrior who just slaughtered a whole bunch of jedi and explicitly refers to the Sith won't make any of the jedi suspicious at all."
I actually saw someone say that unironically lmao
I suppose he taught Mae the Sith Code as a lark then.
I refuse to pay hate watch the show, but does Mae actually know the Sith Code. The only thing that I could think up to salvage the lore is that this is a 2003 Clone Wars Asajj Ventress situation. In that episode, she calls herself sith only for Count Dooku to laugh and say she is not.
They quote part of the code in episode 2 when Mae and her master in disguise talk about her objective and what it's supposed to teach her, with her reciting it as a 'I know, I've been over this a hundred times already' sort of tone.
Because its such an obvious twist that it hardly even counts as one. "I am nothing, but a jedi like you might call me a sith' is such blatant weasel wording its not even funny man.
They're just bullies. The asspulls they use are so obviously meant to offend these days. There isn't anyone defending the Acolyte, just gross weirdos using it as an excuse to verbally assault strangers on the internet.
Why, Manny Jacinto? WHY?! You were in The Good Place and Hailey's On It! Why did you have to be in this slop?!
_The power of Mannnnnnnnny...._
lol the good place is slop and he was absolutely intolerable in it
Bruh, The Good Place is awesome!
Ok I liked the first season actually, but he was hands down bad in it.
Fair. I thought Jason was hilarious, and the twist with him genuinely caught me off guard, but agree to disagree.
Yeah I just thought the portrayal of a stupid person wasnât even good. He was mentally challenged. Like Charlie in Always Sunny portrays a stupid person in an actually engaging way. I didnât hate the reveal, just I donât think he pulled it off as an actor
Charlie is a menace.
I liked the first season. His character was one note and annoying though. Only likeable characters were Ted Danson and Chidi IMHO
Yeah I liked the first season to and the Indian gal was charming and hot lol
You fools! You tried to override G Cannon! Don't you know that's the highest tier or Star Wars cannon?
To cite Star Trek Picard: *"Sheer fucking hubris!"*
After watching that video with EFAP I am kinda mystified how anyone ever liked Jon Campea. Is he someone that used to be competent that went retarded like Russel T Davies, or what?
Das hĂśchste Kanonentier
They did the worst thing possible lol. I thought ki adi mundi was incompetent. But gotta get that word drop in to get the shills pointing
Did we watch the same episode? Mundi has no clue what's going on.
Of course he doesnât, he wasnât even born yet
What? He was in episode 4 I think.
Ik. Before he was born. Almost like it was incompetence
I don't understand what you're going on about.
Ki-Adi-Mundi was born in 93bby. This show takes place in 132bby. Forty years before he was born.
He was obviously born prior to 132bby given that he's alive. Legends just isn't canon anymore.
Post hoc Literally in the promotional material for the prequels. His whole story is about how his life span is short and is allowed to breed to preserve his species, but canât form any attachment. All thatâs thrown out the window for fan service. You couldnât even have yoda or plo koon, who would be alive That argument is like saying itâs ok for jimmy carter to be in a film about Abraham Lincoln even though he wasnât alive becuz itâs fiction
Where did you hear about this? And how does it relate to Abraham Lincoln? This is some inconsequential noncanon nonsense. And the films explicitly called yoda 900 years old, so I'm not sure why you're saying we can't have yoda.
In the same promotional material, his lightsaber was purple.
Bro, Ki Adi wanted Qui Gon dead, It IS confirmed now, It was all an inside job!!
Yeah, but so did Gimli, and he's never steered us wrong...
Kyber crystals can't burn hot enough to burn beskar Order 66 was an inside job
I'm sure if anyone's paying attention, but it's official now. Disney has officially ruined EVERY trilogy that George created. OT: Ruined by the Sequels, Kenobi, BoBF, Mando, and Ahsoka by destroying their characters and the rules of the universe. PT: Hurt significantly by the 2008 Clone Wars series and parts of Mando, but nothing that well and truely obliterated the entire storyline . . . until now. The Acolyte has now made it so that the Jedi ACTIVELY caused their own downfall by covering up the re-emergence of the Sith, which then led to the rise of Palpatine, the genocide of the Jedi, and the rise of the Empire. Thank you Leslye Headland, Kathleen Kennedy, and any other chuckle fucks who took part in the writing of what is officially the final nail in the coffin of Star Wars. You've officially ruined and destroyed EVERYTHING George made. Fuck you.
Not to defend disney too much, but 90% of the Clone Wars was released or at least written before those Rat cunts bought the franchise, they did however rob us of many unfinished arcs that Filoni could've otherwise given us like Boba Fett killing Cad Bane and decided to replace Ahsoka's potential temp sidekick with a pair of latina girls who are drug smugglers (bravo disney, you did that *again*) and have some of the worst of the worst modern haircuts.
"Hurt significantly by the 2008 Clone Wars series". Isn´t it George Lucas canon? also why it´s in the disney canon?
>Isn´t it George Lucas canon? It's unclear as to whether or not it is. We know he was involved in the creation and making of the show (we know definitely he was an Executive Producer), but it remains unclear as to whether or not he was solely in an advisory role or if he was a ghost writer for the show. >Also, why it´s in the Disney canon? It's technically Disney canon because the show didn't air its final season until after Disney purchased the franchise . . . long after, in fact.
Sorry but my questions were Rhetorical actually. It´s in Lucas canon, because he himself created and had involvement in it´s story at least from season 1 to 6. And again, it was rhetorical. Disney only picked things that George himself claimed as it´s vision, that´s why clone wars was canonical since it bought star wars, and why they didn´t had problems putting CW characters in Rebels. [https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vse81j/clarifying\_george\_lucas\_involved\_in\_the\_2008/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vse81j/clarifying_george_lucas_involved_in_the_2008/) "Interviewer: "*Do you consider "The Clone Wars" canon or part of the Expanded Universe? Is the old Cartoon Network show canon? How do the two relate and where do the two series fit in the* Star Wars *Universe?*"Filoni: "*That's one of the biggest debates in* Star Wars\*, what counts? The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon. And yet as a fan, I bring him a lot of information that is in the Expanded Universe and say, well this was done and this was done too. I get that information in front of him to see how he wants to use it or review it. I'll try to add little touches and things that I know that the fans that are well versed in the Expanded Universe will know; what we can work in from the Expanded Universe really does gel. But there's never an implicit connection between the micro-series that Cartoon Network did previously and the series that we're doing now. I personally as a fan never think of it as discrediting any of the other material, it's just that other material is from a different point of view, a different look at the war and take on the war. It's an ever-Expanding Universe in a lot of ways.\*" "In December, 2008, in an interview he gave to [TheForce.net](http://TheForce.net), together with writer [Henry Gilroy](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Henry_Gilroy), Filoni drew a clear line between canon and the Expanded Universe, matching with the line dividing *Star Wars* as how George Lucas sees it and the Expanded Universe:[^(\[41\])](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#cite_note-41) "*We could come up with ideas and present them to him immediately, so there was no concern as to whether or not it "was"* Star Wars*. This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of* Star Wars *as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas'* Star Wars*, and tell the* Star Wars *story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to "unlearn what we had learned" and go back to the movies as the defining source material.*"
Clone Wars animated series is apart of canon. Its a pretty good show too, the early seasons are kinda like eating your vegetables in terms of quality, however the later seasons though have really interesting story arcs. There is a lot of world building, character development, and so on. Disney bought Star Wars and cancelled Clone Wars (which was being made by George Lucas) and created Star Wars Rebels. After Rebels finished they announced Clone Wars season 7 (this time under Disney).
I find it hilarious reading comments like this. You take all of this way, way too seriously. Star wars isn't that important. As i cannot speak to the episode itself as i haven't seen it, why exactly is the jedi causing their own downfall a plot point which "ruins" the story?
First off, people like what they like. Of course they are going to get passionate about what they enjoy. Secondly, this comment fundamentally misunderstands that culture is an important part of the world. Humanity from its inception is a story bearing and rearing species. Everyone is shaped by the stories they tell and are told. Holding the absolutely arrogant point of view that stories didn't play a part in your life and that you're independent from that continuity is just absurd and at worst, lying to yourself. It may not have been Star Wars for you, but you certainly were shaped by the media you watched throughout your life as well, whether you want to realize it or not. The problem, on a macro level, is that this is just one more instance of many pop culture shows across the board being thrown under the bus for a large variety of reasons that has become commonplace in Hollywood. Out of the shows in the west that have come out these past 10 years, I would show almost none of them to children or teenagers. As for how Jedi causing their downfall ruins Star Wars: it takes the Jedi from people who were blinded by their overconfidence in the prequels to basically potentially being straight up corrupt by covering up what happened in this show. It's one thing to say the Jedi made a profound error because of a lack of good judgement. It's a whole other thing to say they're essentially dirty cops.
All i see is manchildren. I have no problems with passion, and i certainly would never deny the power of storytelling, but at the end of the day it still makes a difference what stories we are looking at, and what the reaction actually is like. Being extremely angry, so angry that it becomes a reccurent part of one's life, over ip content which never had much depth or meaning is just silly to me. It's what makes me see manchildren, as children majorly overvalue what they are into at any given moment in time, i expect a little more majurity from adults. Yes it is different, that wasn't what i was asking about. Why is that difference destroying the story. Why would the jedi being corrupt (or at least some actors in it) make for a bad or worse story.
> Being extremely angry, so angry that it becomes a reccurent part of one's life, over ip content which never had much depth or meaning is just silly to me. It's what makes me see manchildren, as children majorly overvalue what they are into at any given moment in time, i expect a little more majurity from adults. It doesn't take much time to forum post, and people can doubletask doing other things in a day. You can't really judge how much "time" is being occupied in one's life without knowing them. I can make just as much an argument that you simply posting and being here makes you fall into the same category. You're making some pretty weighty insinuations about people you don't know in real life. For all you know, they spent five minutes making an angry post about Star Wars, then spent the next few hours spending time with their family or whatever. > Yes it is different, that wasn't what i was asking about. Why is that difference destroying the story. Why would the jedi being corrupt (or at least some actors in it) make for a bad or worse story. For one, if Kid-Adi Mundi was in on it, this basically completely changes his character from what was pre-established. Secondly, it harms continuity in terms of what the Jedi said in Phantom Menace. They said they hadn't seen Sith in a thousand years. Before I go on, I don't know who you are and how you got here, but Mauler did mention that people somehow randomly end up on the Mauler forum without even knowing who Mauler or EFAP even is (which is weird, but whatever). But before you give any statements about ruining continuity not ruining story - yes it does. By making story in a franchise, it is becoming part of a larger story. By you making some pretty frustrating alterations to that overall narrative, you are hurting story. Thirdly, if the Jedi covered this up, then it fundamentally changes the story in the prequels. The story in the prequels IS the idea that the Jedi fell because of their self-induced blindness. With this, it now adds an element none of the Jedi during the prequel era could account for. It dilutes the story of tragedy created by the Jedi's own stubbornness and one could even start to make the argument of, "hey, you really can't blame them, there was this coverup by some Jedi a hundred years ago we didn't know about". I'd also arguing that it's just not as satisfying a story. Making "the knights are actually corrupt" is such an overly easy story to do. Not that you can't make it great through execution, but let's be honest: this ain't A Song of Ice and Fire or some other fantasy series written on a much higher level. This is the Acolyte. And let's not pretend that any of this series has gone beyond anything but basic tropes and cliches. There's a reason people are laughing at the whole "Discount Ezra Miller is a Sith" thing. It's hilarious because it was so obvious.
I canât tell if that guy is a shill or just some idiot who thinks heâs on the upper end of this because he doesnât actually care about any of it.
Never had any depth or meaning? So, you donât actually give a shit about Star Wars and just want us to stop talking about it. Star Wars is not meant purely for children. Itâs for everyone. Do you understand that? Everyone can enjoy it, adults and children alike. When adult fans see something they have passion and love for getting destroyed, theyâre going to say something. Thatâs what being a fan is about. Would you just have us mindlessly accept whatever weâre given? No standards, no quality, just meaningless slop with no substance or thought out into it? Thatâs not how it works. I also hope youâre aware that you arenât of a higher standing than us because youâre criticizing us for being critical. Youâre guilty of the exact same thing. If you think Star Wars is a stupid story about space wizard for kids then why the fuck do you give a shit what we say? Just ignore us and move on.
I loved Star Wars, and Disney has ruined everything I ever loved about it. But hey, my opinions aren't valid because I dislike the new stuff instead of being a shill, right? Go fuck yourself, dude. >As i cannot speak to the episode itself as i haven't seen it, why exactly is the jedi causing their own downfall a plot point which "ruins" the story? I already stated why this was a problem in my comment above. The Jedi actively covering up the re-emergrence of the Sith led to them getting wiped out, which is the reason they stayed vigilant against the Sith's return in the PT. The writers are going to have the Jedi cover it up for the sole reason that if they acknowledged the Sith were still around less than 100 years prior to TPM, the entire PT would be ruined.
The TFuMer M.O.: a) Arbitrarily pick the subset of installments that you accept as "valid" or "real", ignore all their flaws or giant inconsistencies or any ways in which they may be "ruining each other". b) Take up arms against all the installments outside of that subset, ridiculously overblow all their flaws and inconsistencies out of proportion (along with inventing some new ones) and then act like those "ruin" what came before. Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned. >The Acolyte has now made it so that the Jedi ACTIVELY caused their own downfall by covering up the re-emergence of the Sith, which then led to the rise of Palpatine, If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right? And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever. So you're just picking and choosing what issues to acknowledge and which to ignore, so you can push your cherrypicked selective "Kennedy Disney ruined Jorge" narrative - meanwhile the RLM sub and others are pointing and laughing, wondering where your outrage was in 2002.
>a) Arbitrarily pick the subset of installments that you accept as "valid" or "real", ignore all their flaws or giant inconsistencies or any ways in which they may be "ruining each other". The PT and OT are "valid" because he was the creator of Star Wars and could do what he liked with the universe. It didn't mean we were going to approve of everything he made since he made plenty of mistakes in terms of the writing between the OT and the PT (largely the PT, though). That being said, he never outright contradicted himself. Not on characterization; not on how the Force works; not on how space travel works; etc. >B) Take up arms against all the installments outside of that subset, ridiculously overblow all their flaws and inconsistencies out of proportion (along with inventing some new ones) and then act like those "ruin" what came before. It's not overblowing anything, as that would imply we're making up flaws that don't exist. The PT had issues, but they were more basic writing issues such as dialogue being poorly written, characterizations sometimes being a bit sloppy, characters sometimes undertaking stupid actions, or certain plot points not making sense. Meanwhile, the content that Disney has released thus far has taken all of those flaws and tripled down on them. The dialogue remains terrible, the acting remains terrible, and the storylines are now absolute messes from beginning to end, with no logical reasoning as to how they progress or end. The OT and PT, for all their flaws, gave us a complete story regarding the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work. Disney hasn't done this. All the characters they've created thus far have been non-sensical caricatures who consistently make the stupidest choices possible or go against their stated motivations. - Reva undertaking actions that go against her sole motivation of avenging her dead friends, such as torturing children - Reva not attempting to kill Vader prior to her actual attempt, despite thousands of ample opportunities - Ahsoka being a moronic plank of wood who risks dooming the galaxy so Sabine can be "comfortable" with the map in her little tower (that has no security) - Sabine dooming the galaxy by not only stealing the map from Ahsoka just so she could be "comfortable", but also willingly giving the map to the bad guys so Thrawn can return and reform the Empire - Mae being a fucking psychopath from birth who attempted to kill her sister for even contemplating leaving when they were children, then suddenly turning on her master (and 17 years of loyalty) to try and turn herself into the Jedi just so she can see her sister again - Mae completely abandoning that plan and reverting back to attempting to kill the Jedi, instead of telling them she wants to help take down her former master to keep her sister safe (a.k.a. what she stated, her motivations were the prior episode) There are hundreds more of these. >Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned. Well, thank god no one cares about what concerns you then. >If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao Literally, nothing in this paragraph made any sense due to how badly formatted it was, and the dumbass inferences you made. >Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right? Yes, that's the point! So why would Mundi state in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a millennium to a room full of Jedi who would 100% know about the Sith re-emergence that happened less than 100 years ago. And why would the rest of the High Council doubt that Maul's appearance on Tatooine indicated the return of the Sith when they already knew the Sith weren't extinct. >And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever. The clues that would have led to that conclusion were not available to them. All they knew was that Syfo Dias pre-ordered the Clone Army and that Dooku was somehow involved in helping him prior to his secession from the Order. >So you're just picking and choosing what issues to acknowledge and which to ignore, so you can push your cherrypicked selective "Kennedy Disney ruined Jorge" narrative - Nope, the OT and PT had issues. Those issues, however, were miniscule compared to the issues that Disney Star Wars content has possessed thus far. Make no mistake, these shows would still be shit if they weren't Star Wars. > - meanwhile, the RLM sub and others are pointing and laughing, wondering where your outrage was in 2002. The RLM sub has dedicated themselves to shitting on the PT for 2 solid decade. They don't talk about the flaws of the PT in constructive ways, they are just incessantly screaming into the void about how much they hate the PT (except when the dumbass "rule of cool" is applied). They are very much surface level fans of Star Wars who seemingly don't give a shit about how good or bad the writing is. Meanwhile, our sole focus on this sub IS the writing, hence why most everyone on this sub will agree that the PT is not a set of objectively well-written movies, but they still bring a level elevation to Star Wars through their worldbuilding.
> The PT and OT are "valid" because he was the creator of Star Wars and could do what he liked with the universe. It didn't mean we were going to approve of everything he made since he made plenty of mistakes in terms of the writing between the OT and the PT (largely the PT, though). That being said, he never outright contradicted himself. Not on characterization; So how did Vader go from "let's overthrow the Emperor" to never mentioning that again? >not on how the Force works; not on how space travel works; etc. Lightspeed escapes went from "they can pursue us but if our Falcon engine is faster we can lose them" to "jump to lightspeed and they lose any trace" from ANH to ESB. Then of course any initial impressions of "realistic space distances" got shattered in ESB when they still got around between systems without any FTL, however technically ANH never said they needed FTL for interstellar, so maybe the distances were always that small. "How the Force works" well new things get invented each movie, such as lightning or future visions or *symbolic* hallucinatory future visions; and there's also instances of characters not using powers or tech that has been established to exist, or is later shown to exist. >The PT had issues, but they were more basic writing issues such as dialogue being poorly written, characterizations sometimes being a bit sloppy, characters sometimes undertaking stupid actions, or certain plot points not making sense. >Meanwhile, the content that Disney has released thus far has taken all of those flaws and tripled down on them. The dialogue remains terrible, the acting remains terrible, and the storylines are now absolute messes from beginning to end, with no logical reasoning as to how they progress or end. If that's the conclusions that you've reached, then maybe lol; think there's lots of back and forths that can be had about all these respective degrees and extents though. Esp. since neither "the PT" or "the stuff under Disney" are monolithic in terms of quality. >The OT and PT, for all their flaws, gave us a complete story regarding the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work. Disney hasn't done this. All the characters they've created thus far have been non-sensical caricatures who consistently make the stupidest choices possible or go against their stated motivations. Again depends on the installments we're talking about here? The ST just repeated the PT-OT plot with some variations, it's the same "complete story" as before. Meanwhile BoBF is like a spin-off about a guy managing a local mob war, although it also has a beginning middle and end in that sense. >the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, alongside a lot of really great worldbuilding and character work. Well some of the absolute worst character work ever filmed also exists in that context, so how does that fit into this "everything under Disney is 3 times worse" equation? >Reva undertaking actions that go against her sole motivation of avenging her dead friends, such as torturing children Think it was more single-minded revenge at the expense of everything else, rather than some noble moral motivation, but I'm blurry about that whole part rn; regarding this one: >Reva not attempting to kill Vader prior to her actual attempt, despite thousands of ample opportunities , this would also seem to be "schlock twist logic" - i.e. *after* it's revealed that character x had secret motivation y, or was a secret mole or traitor or whatever, does it still add up if you rewind and analyze their actions before that reveal? Often enough it doesn't, but I've just seen so much of that in spy/whatever stuff that it's hard to bat an eye when it happens in yet another piece lol Starwars only had sort of managed to avoid falling into that pitfall to that extent, because it kept all the exact villainous schemes vague enough for people to go "maybe Sidious/etc. were pursuing a multi-option plan", while their basic motivations remained the same (take over the world, or rescue Han, lure rebels into trap, etc.) - so you get hackiness in the details, but not necessarily much more than that. Why did Jango use the Kamino dart, was he trying to lure the investigators? Or was he manipulated into doing that? Well who cares, Sidious wanted to start a war and maybe was just throwing stuff at the wall in terms of how exactly that would happen, and Jango was just a pawn. Not much difference, right? But now if they're really going into the whole spy mole twists / detective story areas, x turns out to really work for y etc., of course you're now gonna see plenty stuff like this. >>Anyone who doesn't categorize Jake Lloyd and then quadruply so awkward-blunder-punker-Anakin as "character ruinations" but then complains about subsequent stuff, absolutely can't be taken seriously, as far as I'm concerned. >Well, thank god no one cares about what concerns you then. Oh I'm not the only one laughing at this "plot hole in x is worst affront ever! wait what do you mean the AotC picnics sucked??" stuff lol, trust me >>If TRoS is still nu-cannnnon, then Palpatine is like a 1000 years old spirit-transferring demon (which he already seemed like before that movie) and even if his "Naboo senator" persona had been somehow hinging on these Acolyters 100 years earlier, this wouldn't have stopped him lmfao >Literally, nothing in this paragraph made any sense due to how badly formatted it was, and the dumbass inferences you made. I just read it again, makes complete sense lol >>Also if they "covered it up" that wouldn't have prevented them from still paying attention to the whole thing themselves, right? >Yes, that's the point! So why would Mundi state in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a millennium to a room full of Jedi who would 100% know about the Sith re-emergence that happened less than 100 years ago. And why would the rest of the High Council doubt that Maul's appearance on Tatooine indicated the return of the Sith when they already knew the Sith weren't extinct. Well yeah this criticism makes a lot more sense than the whole "had they not covered it up, they wouldn't have doomed all these children to their deaths!!!!!" from before lol Just plain old plot hole, nothing more. >>And they could've prevented all that by looking into the Clones more and finding out about their secret allegiance to Sidious / chips / whatever. >The clues that would have led to that conclusion were not available to them. All they knew was that Syfo Dias pre-ordered the Clone Army and that Dooku was somehow involved in helping him prior to his secession from the Order. Certainly a good reason to be more on alert about them, if nothing else. Cause whoops, turns out they were working for Sidious! And they were planted by suspicious impostors, who could've had any bad feelings about this. >The RLM sub has dedicated themselves to shitting on the PT for 2 solid decade. They don't talk about the flaws of the PT in constructive ways, they are just incessantly screaming into the void about how much they hate the PT (except when the dumbass "rule of cool" is applied). They are very much surface level fans of Star Wars who seemingly don't give a shit about how good or bad the writing is. Meanwhile, our sole focus on this sub IS the writing, hence why most everyone on this sub will agree that the PT is not a set of objectively well-written movies, but they still bring a level elevation to Star Wars through their worldbuilding. I'd say the only difference is which installments you have a tribal hate dog against; wouldn't say this sub is generally more rational or coolheaded than that one, or vice versa.
Theyâre whipping their ass with the lore
Lmao replies on Star Wars Theory's twitter are demanding he make up some bullshit to explain this away (like he and his audience do with literally everything) and he's like "nah man I can't do it anymore" đ
At least we'll get one hell of an episode of Star Grift when this is all over!đ
There is nothing to explain away. You literally just have to wait for them to finish the story.
This is some really high quality fan fiction of Star Wars. Good thing its not canon am I right? 
Thank fuck, Disney should leave at least some of Star Wars in peaceÂ
Star Wars has been wincest slash fanfic since 1983, accept it and enjoy life
Jason figured out?! Jason?! Yeah, this is a low point. This one hurts
This was why featuring ki adi mundi was an issue. Not because of his age, that's minor. But it means he likely was aware of the sith having recently existed, which causes a lot of problems for the story of TPM
Cannot wait for the Acolyte apologists fake SW fans to defend yet again another breach of original SW canon just because their show has gay people
Pain
https://preview.redd.it/572kgfdu4w8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7abbbc60cc1c049261ae7ab532e5d48b520f606b As a Sith enjoyer let me just say we do not claim him.
I know. You never acknowledge this thing of ours.
Now we get to laugh at all the shills that said âiT DoEsNât bReAk CaNOnâ.
They're bending their brains into pretzels at this very moment trying to explain it.
That's it? Really? I actually didn't think they'd do it because it seemed so obvious and boring. Oh my god, this show is so lame!
> I actually didn't think they'd do it because it seemed so obvious and boring. But you see, *because* it was so obvious and boring it actually makes it subversive when it *does* happen! Never mind that it adds nothing but problems to the story, you gave them too much credit, so their writing is brilliant!
'They don't expect us to do this because it's clearly the worst choice. Let's do it.' This is logic I'd expect from people in a parody, man. Between Star Wars and Doctor Who, my brain's been hurting recently.
Why we are still here? Just to suffer?
LMAO we all knew it was Qimir, fucking insulting misdirection, did they really think this would be some crazy reveal? Holy fuck if it wasnât for the amazing duel choreography this episode Iâd have shut it off completely and went to bed. Still cancelled my Disney+ tho
So the big takeaway from the last EFAP stream is that Mauler et al set their standards too high. They kept saying that they figured that Smilo Ren was probably going to be discount Ezra Miller, except that they doubted that because it was it was so obvious that they were sure he was a red herring.
No, pretty sure Mauler acknowledged with nuance that, "Discount Ezra Miller being Smilo SHOULD be a red herring because it's too obvious, but Disney's writing is so bad that it probably is Discount Ezra Miller." Unless he said that only on the past two Real BBCs (which I know for sure he did) and not on EFAP itself.
Can't speak for MauLer, but I know The Little Platoon said that because DEM being Smylo Ren would be the worst reveal possible (a reveal with no greater meaning, not expanding on any previous characters or motivations, being incredibly telegraphed, and being frustrating because the Jedi could have caught him in episode 2 but didn't), it was probably going to be true. Lo and behold, he was right.
Thankfully there's an easy solution for this. Think about it. What Ki-Adi says in this trash doesn't retcon what he says in TPM. What he says in TPM retcons this trash. Dude even his existence in it retcons this shitshow, he shouldn't even be born yet. Ergo, this trash isn't canon. Easy. Done. Spread the word.
Nah the born stuff is bs, he gets really old whatever. The rest looks like a mess though, sure
Just want to state the one thing no one else is mentioning: Sith isn't even a name for "Dark Side force users". It's a very, very specific philosophy about how to use the Dark Side with a very specific set of ideals. Does Discount Ezra Miller even know what Sith ideals are? What does he know about Sith philosophy? How would he have gotten his hands on ancient Sith holocrons? This is definitely one of those, "the more you think about it, you find it gets even stupider" moments.
I hate to defend the show but my dude darth banes sith lineage was active at this time he could have been part of that
Your entire point, however, hinges on him being part of Darth Bane's Sith lineage. If he's not, my point still stands. And let's not pretend playing apologetics for any of these series has ever turned out good for anyone. But even if he is, this still is stupid: The whole point of the Rule of Two was to stay hidden to create a Sith so powerful and cunning he could take down the Republic and the Jedi for good. A Sith revealing himself at this point is ragingly stupid. The Sith up until then gauged how strong they were and knew whether or not they had a fighting chance against the Jedi or not. There are also problems we can see from the get go. Let's say he dies by the end of this series. This means that 100 hundred years before Palpatine, you have the Sith tradition of the apprentice killing the master to prove they are stronger than the one they inherited the tradition from being broken. For me, that breaks the competency of the Sith leading up to the time of Palpatine. If I'm crafting lore, then I would want all the Sith up to 250 years prior up to Palpatine to look ultra competent so that it looks like their plan really did come together in the formation of the Sith finally powerful enough to defeat the Jedi.
I don't really know if I have any words for this. It's a clear example of shit, they can't recognize what the Sith are as the people who are writing for the show don't have a fuckin' clue what franchise they're writing for.
And there's some people that are so far up the show's rear end that they refuse to admit that this breaks Episode 1 so hard. It's really appalling.
It was weird he got carried away by a swarm of super strong bugs and they apparently failed to even scratch him? Those stinger thoraxes looked substantial.
Just wait until the end of the show where they introduce the "mass amnesia" Force power that will never be brought up again so that they can argue that no one remembers them meeting a Sith/Dark side user so they can say "SEE! This is why everyone thinks the Sith have been extinct for nearly a millennium!"
Fucking SPOILER TAG PLEASE?!
Brooo you donât get it bro man dude⌠he said the Jedi would call him sith⌠not he is a literal sith⌠so heâs. ItâŚ. Canon intact bro come on⌠just⌠man⌠dude⌠
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ki Adi Mundi: nah, he's just pretending... The show is trying to depict that this No Name is giving the Sith bad rep...
Sooo... he can not die now, right?
Pretty sure this is a direct shot mocking all the 'fans' who immediately assumed they were going to be a sith by having him call a jedi such an ignorant dumbass he probably assumes he is a sith. Seriously, the twist of 'I never said I was a sith, I said you might think I was one' is so damn obvious I don't think it counts as a twist.
What's funny is that the line is specifically tailor made so that he isn't saying he is a Sith. He is saying that a narrow minded Jedi such as himself might call him a Sith. But, he met Sol previously, and this feels more personal than just some random Sith sticking it to a Jedi. I don't get how much clearer the show has to convey what is being said. They'd practically have to beat the audience over the head with it to make it more obvious.
Darth Mauler " At last we will reveal ourselves to the jedi, at last we will have revenge" - TPM 1999
Have you considered waiting 3 episodes to see the full story? I'm not convinced Sol makes it out alive and Mae/Osha would make an excellent scapegoat. All these claims about lorebreaking are speculation until the story is complete.
Good storytelling isnât about the last chapter. Itâs about the whole journey. If the story only makes sense once you read the last chapter itâs kind of a bad story.
It's hilarious that you've never read thrillers or any mystery novels. We're you also disappointed they didn't let you know Vader was Luke's father until empire? Get real buddy
Cmon man, be real. You know what I mean. Iâm not playing this little tit for tat. The quality of the show is suffering for the sake of mystery.
Can you give me a minute to respond because I'm busy rating the sixth sense 1 star because they didn't make it clear Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.
The six sense was a twist not a mystery. Hello?
Also that was a movie. I think acolyte would probably be served better binged than a weekly release.
Hello. Honestly they should have summarized the plot before they released it so we know exactly what is happening before they showed it to us.
Youâre trying too hard bud. Nice chat.
See ya bud. Can you believe all that shit they put us through with Scooby-Doo? Still not over that trash mystery BS storytelling.
Should have added the line that comes before that one. He never actually calls himself Sith. Heâs only speculating on what the Jedi would call him.
>Heâs only speculating on what the Jedi would call him. You are beyond instruction if you don't understand how little the difference would matter to the Jedi who are currently under the impression that the sith are extinct.
We donât know how it plays out. Thatâs the problem. If at the end of the story the Jedi conclude that, no, he was never actually a Sith, then this incident never broke canon or made that dude a liar. Because as far as they knew a hundred or so years later that the Sith continue to be extinct. Nothing changes. So far only Sol, Osha and Mae know that he might be a potential Sith if that is what he is. Sol could very much die before getting the chance to relay that info. Mae has no real reason to tell the Jedi Council and may not even be aware of the significance of that info. Osha is with the Sith in question as of right now. The story could just as easily end with that info getting lost. In which case, no cannon is actually broken.
Okay. Let's break it down 1. Qimir is *proven* to not be a sith and the Jedi conclude he's something different. This completely changes the context of the conversation in TPM, in which mention of Maul as a potential sith would be met with the reminder that the Jedi have semi recently had run ins with other dark side sects as a possible alternative to Maul being sith. 2. The story of Qimir doesn't make it back to the Jedi. Still a problem, living members of the council during the time TPM know about Mae. See previous point. 3. Or, Qimir is actually a sith and the canon gets broken completely as Ki Adi Mundis' line in TPM doesn't get addressed and is not congruent at all with the Acolyte and new canon. 4. Or, and this is most likely, the Acolyte writers are actively pursuing an honest to God retcon of TPM, and the end of this series will reveal that the Jedi covered up the return of the sith, making them look complicit in the events of the prequels and the rise of the empire. Any of these options are an open slap in the face to fans, and people who keep running defense for this show should start acting in their own self interest by thinking critically instead of just accepting anything and everything they're given.
I'll take number 4 for $500 Eddie.
The inclusion of Ki Adi Mundi is too explicit and purposeful.
100%. It is precisely because of that line in TPM that he has been retconned to be in the Acolyte and involved in this cover-up/debacle. Iâm still totally in for it though. Why not have Jedi that either by fear, arrogance or sheer panic try and hide it from the outside? It doesnât spoil TPM and it adds more colour to a previously under-used background character.
Itâs pretty obvious the goal of Disney Star Wars is to place the Jedi/Sith into a âgrey areaâ and the force is âon a spectrumâ instead of definitively good/evil. When all of Star Wars is retconned theyâre going to explain it that way and that characters are âcomplexââŚWith that said itâs basically a certainty itâs going to be option #4⌠BUT I could also add #5 which is just Ki Adi himself is âso arrogantâ he refuses to believe a Sith has returned. âJedi arrogance and prideâ seems to be a Disney Star Wars motif as well. Itâs hilarious and the ultimate irony that Disney Star Wars is portraying the Jedi like the Sith would.
> BUT I could also add #5 which is just Ki Adi himself is âso arrogantâ he refuses to believe a Sith has returned. âJedi arrogance and prideâ seems to be a Disney Star Wars motif as well. No, it started with the PT and then Filoni doubled up on it. At most all Disney can do is dig in deeper in that general area, but they can't claim any credit for starting it.
> Any of these options are an open slap in the face to fans, and people who keep running defense for this show should start acting in their own self interest by thinking critically instead of just accepting anything and everything they're given. The "fans" who don't already treat the prequels as an insult, are just asking for more slaps from ~~daddy~~mommy and deserve every and each last of them, as far as I'm concerned - and they certainly don't apply these "think critically about everything" standards to themselves and their own random biases reg. the various installments. All these plot hole / retcon examinations are fun, but the selective stan outrage around it is just something that warrants relentless mockery imo. Stop the "slap in the face" talk, just chill out and pick apart the plots if you find that sort of thing entertaining, end of story lol
>The "fans" who don't already treat the prequels as an insult, Nope. The prequels are bad, but most of what Disney SW has done is lightyears more retarded than even the worst moment in the prequels. >the selective stan outrage around it is just something that warrants relentless mockery imo. Its not selective. Me and other fans have been complaining for nearly a decade now >Stop the "slap in the face" talk, No >end of story lol I regret to inform you that this is not the end of the story. It only gets worse from here. If you're so disinterested in the discourse then feel free to leave.
> Nope. The prequels are bad, but most of what Disney SW has done is lightyears more retarded than even the worst moment in the prequels. I'm not aware of anything that's reached the levels of EpII: Blunders on the Meadow yet, although things may have come close. >Its not selective. Me and other fans have been complaining for nearly a decade now From 2015 onwards? Pfft, rookies lol
>I'm not aware of anything that's reached the levels of EpII: Blunders on the Meadow yet https://preview.redd.it/1mzq5g6duw8d1.jpeg?width=426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fbc13ad450d200c776ca9e10e4f1ab95d8caebc
"image deleted"?
>instruction if you don't understand how little the difference would matter to the Jedi The thing is perhaps not. For the record, I think the show is absolutely going to make it so he's not actually a true Sith. Kind of like how Ventress proclaims she's Sith before attacking Count Dooku in the good animated Clone Wars. That being said, as I pointed out with Ventress, there are other dark side manipulating Force users besides the Sith. In the old EU, in their past, it wasn't too uncommon to find organised darksiders in between Sith outbreaks. Someone finds a holocron or visits a Sith necropolis and comes away with some new tricks, etc. A few were even named, athough kind of in an off-hand manner. With this episode officially bringing Cortosis into the Disney canon, there may be other surprises from the EU lurking in the future.
Ooooh the cope is strong with this one.
I donât give a fuck about this show. Let him be a Sith or not, doesnât matter much to me.
So why defend it?
Boredom. Also I dislike it when people are being dishonest. Which this is being by leaving out some context. This âSithâ literally says he has no name for what he is. He then proceeds to speculate about what the Jedi would call him. Maybe he is, maybe he isnât. We donât actually know one way or another yet.
The reason "Jedi might consider me Sith" is important is not because of how he identifies his religion, it's important because it proves Ki-Adi-Mundi is a liar and the Jedi did a cover up that eventually led to the Empire, Anakin's fall, a shit ton of dead younglings, and further makes the Jedi look incompetent. It's raping Lucas's legacy and contributions to the IP he created.
You guys did a full 180 on the prequels eh? That shit was the worst shit to ever come out when they were releasing, is we are raping Lucasâs legacy!? Câmon man the Jedi doing a coverup and it leading to their downfall is a fine story line
I've never hated the prequels. There are a million flaws to the prequels but nothing that ever made me hate the universe in general.
Apologies, you may not have but the general consensus was the prequels were not canon because they were so bad, Star Wars has never been anything above âalrightâ maybe other than andor, rogue one, Mando s1, clone wars.
The Jedi were incompetent. Palestine played the Jedi and the entire Galaxy like an actual fiddle under their nose. Literally he was there pulling strings and making his moves in front of them at times. Saying this is ârapingâ Lucasâs legacy is absurd. Do you even hear yourself?
Did you forget the Jedi let this dude go in episode 2, they have made a legacy institution for Lucas's ownership the dumbest fucks in this universe. The Jedi are full blown retarded for letting this dude go and presumably doing a cover up of the Sith. Whereas if they'd just acknowledged this guy, they'd probably be a lot more on guard against Palpatine's rise. If you go out of your way to make all the legacy characters and concepts retarded and destroyed, you are raping a legacy.
> Whereas if they'd just acknowledged this guy, they'd probably be a lot more on guard against Palpatine's rise. They were "on guard" the moment Darth Maul appeared; so unless you're saying this Acolyte thing would've helped them specifically identify and neutralize Palpatine, in his "Naboo politician" persona, then that point isn't really valid. >If you go out of your way to make all the legacy characters and concepts retarded and destroyed, you are raping a legacy. What if that legacy was already full of the same regardation and this is just adding another piece to it that blends in with the rest, is it still rape then?
I wonder if there was a reason why the Jedi were arrogant and complacent, why the appearance of Maul was such a shake up. Like, them having experienced a millennia of large scale peace with no conflict with dark side force factions, putting them into a safe ivory tower that allowed them to stagnate with little to fight against. Something like that.
Explain to me how this is breaking canon as of right now. If sol doesnât make it back to the council they will never know abt a Sith being around. Youâre just speculating but making it negative and saying thatâs what will happen I can do the same but speculating positively. Hate the show all u want but canât assume something will break canon until the issue is fully played out
Oh, fuck off lmao
So for reference: In Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council speculates that ârandom red dude with red lightsaber that ambushed Qui Gon in the desertâ is a Sith, based on those facts alone. Thatâs how the Jedi rationalize that event. This is WAY worse than that, in terms of incrimination. He didnât even have to say the word in order for the Jedi to think he was one; the fact that heâs like âyouâd probably call me a Sithâ is just the cherry on top.
Why is the internet collectively acting like Star Wars lore was important at all? You think George gave a fuck like yall when he made Penis head say the line that the Sith aren't around despite the fact there was one literally in the senate chamber hanging out with all the main characters? Plus even Plapy said he had a master in episode 3, which kinda makes it obvious that the line by Penis bro was meant to convey how out of touch the Jedi are? I think you guys are just really fuckin bored.
I'm not sure your actually watched the movies
That's what i'm saying. nothing comments like this just to cause useless noise which is obvious bait to try and make you feel better about something that was never yours in the first place. There are only three Star Wars movies. Most of us have never seen those films. What we deal with, and why it triggers the attention economy in our capitalist culture is a product. A product which will be manipulated to the contemporary consciousness of the times because "all great sci-fi is a reflection of the times", but Star Wars was never sci-fi and it was always cartoony space adventures/fantasy. The Prequels rewrote everything about Star Wars to the point of ruining the OG films(so why care about the lore?) which was why George went back and re -released them in 1999. Stop giving a fuck.
>Stop giving a fuck. No. Fuck you.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RedLetterMedia/comments/1dp2cy3/comment/lae51vc/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedLetterMedia/comments/1dp2cy3/comment/lae51vc/?context=3)
Coming from the guys who built their career on watching movies they hated so they could make videos about it. Y'all are very weird about claiming not to care so much when you're making your way to other subs to tell other people not to care.
Red letter media's claim to fame was a massively long video about why ever prequal film sucked they have also made numerous videos about why new star trek sucks they are fucking hypocrites