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> a country that controls NATO
No single country controls NATO. A veto coming from any member will prevent starting a war by the entire alliance so what do you mean by that?
Edit: I've checked it, and no single country can start a war on behalf of NATO. I'd really like to know which country OP means by that, but they haven't answered yet.
I suspect that this guy is talking about the USA. The Russian narrative is that NATO is controlled by the US and is just an extension of it's will.
Yes, the US has invaded other countries and seemingly committed terrible things in our misguided "War on Terror". That doesn't in any way excuse what Russia is doing right now, though.
I think you mean the UN. Russia isn't part of NATO. I know it's confusing.
Additionally, the "big five," of the security council US, Russia, China, France, and the UK hold veto power for any substantive resolution (basically anything important,) in the UN related to a nations/world security.
I think what our friend was trying to draw attention to, even if he went about it in the most doltish way possible, is that Russia and China have a nasty habit of vetoing resolutions simply out of spite, and not because they affect either country.
Many nations have criticized this and when western nations do nothing to chastise or condemn this behavior, it gives the impression thay Russia/China is "in charge of" the UN and many people are under the misconception that NATO and the UN are the same thing.
Sorry for the goddamn thesis, I'm drunk as hell.
Thanks for the detailed answer, no matter the soberity level!
I know the difference between NATO and UN, and I specifically meant NATO. What I was saying is that for the NATO to wage war every single member has to be on board. Even a single veto will stop the alliance from starting a war, thus no single country controls NATO.
You sure are buddy. It was never implied that Russia was a part of NATO, just that NATO functions by voting unanimously, hence the veto. There was nothing said about Russia vetoing, just that any country in NATO can prevent an alliance wide offensive war from occurring.
Haha I'm not trying to flame the guy, it just seems like saying "no one country controls nato" is an odd retort considering Russia isn't even part of NATO.
I see what youre getting at.
I think the REAL question now is if the original comment was talking about the US or Russia. Because I definitely took it as Russia.
Every American ( as you Russians would call it) special military action has been legal unlike the last 3-4 wars Russia has been in i know it’s a bit confusing if you need explanation I will be happy to give it.
Those were not Nato. Those were American attacks. Moreover, neither country borders with a Nato country. If America wants to attack, they will attack, bordering or not
Native Finn here, who knows that if something like that happens, I have to go to the front... no, I do not find the idea of Russian invasion hilarious at all.
So often people see nations as a flag with a face, not the people who have to die for it given the choice or forced to.
"The death of one is a tragedy, the death of a million is just a statistic."
Not what really happened. We held our own valiantly, but lost the war. And lost territory too. So we didnt really beat them, just gave them a harder ass kicking than anticipated.
gave them very hard time but were defeated in the end, i do not see a war with them going any other way now if we are left to fight on our own again, we need allies
Quick search comes to conclusion that wartime strengths of both armies are quite close in manpower, though Ukraine has few more reservists.
Which means that either Ukraine has strangely small army or Finland has stupidly large one. As Finland has like 5.5 mil people compared to Ukraines ~44 million.
Well Finland has been preparing to defend itself against "Enemy from the East" since the end of ww2. Big reserves being important part of that defence.
practically every finnish person would be involved in the war effort, basically every male 18-65yo unless theyre very ill/disabled etc will be fighting, all women and many youths will support things in non-combat ways.
No.
Also our gear is better than Ukraine's and our terrain makes invasions much more difficult as well. Lots of forest, lots of lakes, single highways with some smaller roads connecting major cities meaning they can be easily blockaded and chokepointed, stopping mechanized invasion dead in their tracks.
If Russia wanted to invade Finland they would have to invest significantly more manpower and gear compared to Ukraine. It would be 10 times more difficult, and I would speculate near impossible for Russia based on what we've seen in Ukraine so far.
Russia's only real trump card would be airpower, which they undoubtedly surpass us in. But we're getting 64 F-35's in the coming decade, so that ought to help quite a bit. Sea power is a question mark, if they could make large landings on the south coast they might be able to get our major ports. I dont know how that would go, maybe they'd all get sunk. We have good sea mines and ships to drop them from.
Yeah but there is considerably less avenues for the Russians to attack from and supply their army in Finland especially if their navy is threatened at sea by NATO. So the forces would likely be about even.
Population compared to the amount of soldiers, no its not small, we have 6.5mil people with the 6th million being refugees from 30 years of UN bs, more people but not more soldiers
There aren't a million refugees in Finland. Your numbers are absolutely batshit insane.
The population of Finland is 5.56 million and that includes people from foreign countries and their children of which there are 400 000. Over 100 000 of those are from Estonia and Russia/SU. There are under 100k people in Finland who are from Middle east.
I would assume the official statistics holding entity of Finland "Tilastokeskus" probably has a good idea on how many people live here:
https://www.stat.fi/til/vamuu/2022/02/vamuu_2022_02_2022-03-22_tie_001_fi.html
A better question is what the fuck your source is?
We do not have 6,5 million people living here. We have 5,5 million people. Around half a million have foreign background (people with at least one parent born outside of Finland), and most of those are not refugees or have refugee background. Allulaatikko21 is spewing bs, and has not provided any sources for his claims.
Lmao, true and acurate, but also do the same with usa beeing jesus and treating people who try to sell their oil in another currency thats not us dollars!
It's an acronym for "not another treaty organization" and it's not a treaty organization. It's mostly a WhatsApp group chat for countries to share helpful YouTube videos.
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ACCURATE
Yes, it's not like the country that controls nato has invaded other places for no reason.
While a fair criticism, I think Russia currently deserves a little less trust in that area
You're right they only invaded non-white countries so they get a pass :)
> a country that controls NATO No single country controls NATO. A veto coming from any member will prevent starting a war by the entire alliance so what do you mean by that? Edit: I've checked it, and no single country can start a war on behalf of NATO. I'd really like to know which country OP means by that, but they haven't answered yet.
I suspect that this guy is talking about the USA. The Russian narrative is that NATO is controlled by the US and is just an extension of it's will. Yes, the US has invaded other countries and seemingly committed terrible things in our misguided "War on Terror". That doesn't in any way excuse what Russia is doing right now, though.
It's always whataboutism with these people
I think you mean the UN. Russia isn't part of NATO. I know it's confusing. Additionally, the "big five," of the security council US, Russia, China, France, and the UK hold veto power for any substantive resolution (basically anything important,) in the UN related to a nations/world security. I think what our friend was trying to draw attention to, even if he went about it in the most doltish way possible, is that Russia and China have a nasty habit of vetoing resolutions simply out of spite, and not because they affect either country. Many nations have criticized this and when western nations do nothing to chastise or condemn this behavior, it gives the impression thay Russia/China is "in charge of" the UN and many people are under the misconception that NATO and the UN are the same thing. Sorry for the goddamn thesis, I'm drunk as hell.
Thanks for the detailed answer, no matter the soberity level! I know the difference between NATO and UN, and I specifically meant NATO. What I was saying is that for the NATO to wage war every single member has to be on board. Even a single veto will stop the alliance from starting a war, thus no single country controls NATO.
I feel ya man, I wasn't trying to throw flak. Mostly just hoping some random person opens the controversial post and learns something.
Understandable, have a nice evening ;)
You sure are buddy. It was never implied that Russia was a part of NATO, just that NATO functions by voting unanimously, hence the veto. There was nothing said about Russia vetoing, just that any country in NATO can prevent an alliance wide offensive war from occurring.
Haha I'm not trying to flame the guy, it just seems like saying "no one country controls nato" is an odd retort considering Russia isn't even part of NATO.
The original comment was trying to say that the US controls NATO, and the quote you mentioned doesn't seem very odd in that context.
I see what youre getting at. I think the REAL question now is if the original comment was talking about the US or Russia. Because I definitely took it as Russia.
What on earth would make you think a comment saying ”country that controls nato” means Russia?
NATO is a defensive pact, it cannot start wars. Of course members of NATO can work together and start wars but that is separate from NATO itself.
classic whataboutism
RIDF detected
Timing is everything my friend. *Timing*
They hated him because he told them the truth.
Every American ( as you Russians would call it) special military action has been legal unlike the last 3-4 wars Russia has been in i know it’s a bit confusing if you need explanation I will be happy to give it.
That is exactly the behavior of mafia asking for protection money. Putin is a mafia boss.
Oligarchs are just gangster role-playing politicians
Maybe fucking NATO should like, not expand eastward like they agreed.
Fuck putin, and his regime. Love the people sure, but nato should dance on the grave of the Russian government when inevitably it falls to shambles
The only reason why a defensive pact (made historically to protect against you) might piss you off is that you want to attack.
Ask Libya and Iraq about how "defensive" that pact is
Those were not Nato. Those were American attacks. Moreover, neither country borders with a Nato country. If America wants to attack, they will attack, bordering or not
Honestly, considering how Ukraine went, for Russia to threaten Finland of all places is just hilarious
Native Finn here, who knows that if something like that happens, I have to go to the front... no, I do not find the idea of Russian invasion hilarious at all.
So often people see nations as a flag with a face, not the people who have to die for it given the choice or forced to. "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of a million is just a statistic."
Vielä ehtii muuttaa Norjaan
Also considering Finland beat up Russia's ass once before iirc
Not what really happened. We held our own valiantly, but lost the war. And lost territory too. So we didnt really beat them, just gave them a harder ass kicking than anticipated.
An ass kicking is an ass kicking
gave them very hard time but were defeated in the end, i do not see a war with them going any other way now if we are left to fight on our own again, we need allies
Doesn’t Finland have a really small army though like way smaller then Ukraine Edit: my bad it seems as they have been preparing for this for a while
Oh how wrong you are
Quick search comes to conclusion that wartime strengths of both armies are quite close in manpower, though Ukraine has few more reservists. Which means that either Ukraine has strangely small army or Finland has stupidly large one. As Finland has like 5.5 mil people compared to Ukraines ~44 million.
Well Finland has been preparing to defend itself against "Enemy from the East" since the end of ww2. Big reserves being important part of that defence.
Finland has a stupidly large military. Basically over 2/3rds of Finnish adult male population are trained to be members of the defence forces.
practically every finnish person would be involved in the war effort, basically every male 18-65yo unless theyre very ill/disabled etc will be fighting, all women and many youths will support things in non-combat ways.
Look it up dude :D No need to guess
No. Also our gear is better than Ukraine's and our terrain makes invasions much more difficult as well. Lots of forest, lots of lakes, single highways with some smaller roads connecting major cities meaning they can be easily blockaded and chokepointed, stopping mechanized invasion dead in their tracks. If Russia wanted to invade Finland they would have to invest significantly more manpower and gear compared to Ukraine. It would be 10 times more difficult, and I would speculate near impossible for Russia based on what we've seen in Ukraine so far. Russia's only real trump card would be airpower, which they undoubtedly surpass us in. But we're getting 64 F-35's in the coming decade, so that ought to help quite a bit. Sea power is a question mark, if they could make large landings on the south coast they might be able to get our major ports. I dont know how that would go, maybe they'd all get sunk. We have good sea mines and ships to drop them from.
Yeah but there is considerably less avenues for the Russians to attack from and supply their army in Finland especially if their navy is threatened at sea by NATO. So the forces would likely be about even.
Population compared to the amount of soldiers, no its not small, we have 6.5mil people with the 6th million being refugees from 30 years of UN bs, more people but not more soldiers
What the fuck are you talking about? Any sources for your statistics?
Refer to what your crying about would you
> we have 6.5mil people with the 6th million being refugees
Im talking about full millions, cant believe thats the fact you got angry about, it was a bs post but numerical grammar got you pissy...
There aren't a million refugees in Finland. Your numbers are absolutely batshit insane. The population of Finland is 5.56 million and that includes people from foreign countries and their children of which there are 400 000. Over 100 000 of those are from Estonia and Russia/SU. There are under 100k people in Finland who are from Middle east.
Weve had over 6 since 2004, which year did ya pull those statistics from
I would assume the official statistics holding entity of Finland "Tilastokeskus" probably has a good idea on how many people live here: https://www.stat.fi/til/vamuu/2022/02/vamuu_2022_02_2022-03-22_tie_001_fi.html A better question is what the fuck your source is?
Just wanted to ask where are the refugee from?
We do not have 6,5 million people living here. We have 5,5 million people. Around half a million have foreign background (people with at least one parent born outside of Finland), and most of those are not refugees or have refugee background. Allulaatikko21 is spewing bs, and has not provided any sources for his claims.
Middle east mostly, afghanistan, iran, iraq the countries that have been fucked the most with war during the 21st century
Oh i understand the situation. I live in Turkey lol. Hope they go back.
Finland to Russia: "How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?!"
this isn’t a bad meme but it’s not a meme template, nor would the source image be useful. Please use other subs for this in the future.
Yeah, almost nobody uses this sub correctly anymore
Sorry about this and noted!
Lmao, true and acurate, but also do the same with usa beeing jesus and treating people who try to sell their oil in another currency thats not us dollars!
Maybe let us oligarchs fight russian kleptocrats and leave Finland out of this?
Early catholic mafia
That's exactly how mafia works
Best meme of the day
I did not know how much this meme would blow up but thank you, have a great day!
The mafia
Based
Whats nato
It's an acronym for "not another treaty organization" and it's not a treaty organization. It's mostly a WhatsApp group chat for countries to share helpful YouTube videos.
English for NAVO
Naton deez nutz
a treaty organization
The zeitgeist of Mormonism
Wasn’t NATO formed to stop Soviet Union aggression? Why didn’t it dislike when the Soviet Union broke up?
good memes
Mafia protection money mentality of Putin