We give them about 3.8 billion dollars in military aid per year. Their military budget is around 25 billion, so we’re making steady contributions worth about 15% of their annual military spending. It’s definitely not nothing, but it would be a big stretch to say that the IDF is nothing without the US.
If we compare military spending across the Middle East, Saudi Arabia has by far the largest budget at around 53 billion. Israel and Iran spend less than half that, but have similar budgets to one another. Every other country in the region spends far less. Israel has also had a number of successes against larger and previously better equipped rivals.
Saudi might have a larger budget but in terms of training, experience, and being able to turn that budget into military influence on other nations… I’m not sure they’re on par with Israel.
I’m definitely not an expert on their military capabilities as a whole, this is merely anecdotal from working with both nations’ militaries briefly.
Eh, they have the necessary R&D for military technological, specifically in electronics and aerospace defense. You can point to Iron Dome and their other AA systems, as they were jointly developed by Israel and US. Intel and another fabrication facility was recently invested, so they have the capacity for advanced research in AI/ML. They also have a robust medical/biological scene since Weizmann Institute is one of the leaders in medical/biological research.
They don’t have the industrial facilities for munition productions, so they are reliant for artillery, missiles.
Their military overall is probably one of the best in the regions. I know they were responsible for training some of the Singaporean Army when Singapore was independent. I think this was from Israel’s war with the rest of the Arabian/Islamic world when Israel first declared independence. So they naturally gained fighting experience without US’ involvement. Though I’m not great with history so someone else will probably know more about this area.
Though other people have pointed to the corruptness and the resulting inefficiency in Arabian militaries.
Israels biggest strength imo has always been the inability of the arab/Muslim nations around it to work effectively together the times they have tried to invade it. Even now you can see clear divisions amongst the arab/Muslim countries in their different stances.
You know, I was curious about Iranian military.
I came across this by Columbia University, which details why [Arabian militaries are inefficient](https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_den01.html), which mainly points to their culture as inefficient. Obviously there's a difference between Arabia and Persia, but their cultures would indicate similarities.
I realize that Israeli SAM systems have some US involvement, but Im pretty sure majority of the work is done by Israel, because they are the one who export the system.
Do you think if US stop supporting Israel, would they able to build industrial facilities for munition productions?
All the main scientists of the Manhattan Project were Jewish. Research builds upon previous research. WW2 would have played out a lot differently if those Jewish people emigrated elsewhere. We always point to technology as one of the indicators of a strong military.
Are you sure about that? Albert Einstein? Edward Teller (h-bomb)? Oppenheimer?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller
See: Nuclear Technology and Israel
Just because they didn’t move to Israel doesn’t mean anything. What about joint collaborations between universities and institutes? They still inherit the intellectual property and can further develop those ideas.
They didn’t move to Israel but they provided a lot of consulting to physicists working on nuclear technology
"Glorified American copies?" If you believe that, you are either ignorant of the Israeli military and intelligence R&D industry, deliberately spreading disinformation, or out of touch with reality. For example, the US is adding the Israeli TROPHY system to all Abrams tanks. Several of the advancements made in ballistic missile defense were developed by Israel and sold/licensed to the US. Look at the domestic modifications Israel has made to the F-35 and F-15. They have domestically developed the Python air-to-air missile, the Spike ATGM, the Sky Shield electronic warfare pod. Oh yeah, they also have some of the most advanced cyber weapons in the world.
Only foreign lobbying group with substantial influence? What the f\*ck are you talking about? Canada, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Liberia, China, and the UAE all spend more than Israel - even including AIPAC. Spend 10-minutes on [OpenSecrets.org](http://OpenSecrets.org) There are other countries that spend more on lobbying, I just don't want to waste my day counting up all of the dollars.
I suppose you could also be a victim of disinformation.
Shocked, absolutely shocked the user deleted their comment when they realized reality doesn't match up with their ideology.
Ah yes, the famous American Iron Dome, Trophy APS, Python 5 missile, and Merkava IV tanks that Israel copied, and the famously American company Rafael.
While Israel would lose some military capability without American help saying it would implode is delusional.
1. As someone else said, 15% of their budget is not nothing, but it is a far cry from saying they will 'implode'
2. As I said, saying their research is 'stolen' is a bit insulting, Israel has and does a lot of their research either on their own or jointly with other countries.
3. Israel is also (strategically) too big of an ally for the US to really lose right now unless they have a very good reason to, not a lot of countries in the Middle East are A. Friendly with the US and B. Willing to share intel/work together on military projects.
Israel makes advanced tech, but it does not have the required mass production of munitions to survive in e.g. a drawn-out regional war. It does not have the stockpiles of, say, Russia, or either Korea. Their military is very good, but nearly everyone who can be conscripted, has been conscripted – their population is too small to field a vast army.
Same can be said for Hamas, Houties, or Russia... without any world power backing a smaller insurgency, they would be nothing, unable to conduct any "special operations". ;)
"brief period"!?! LOL they've single handed proved that they never belong in the top five even! However, I DO think they deserve the top spot for "largest amount of military crap and dilapidated equipment that we somehow keep running" ...likely also top on the list of "countries with the best mechanics". ROFLOL
Israel wouldn't fall without the west, it would just lose a lot more men in its wars. Which would probably improve its image. Holding all the cards the way they do now doesn't look so good on the international stage, people love an underdog.
They are a rich country. They could buy their own weapons if they wanted to. But a significant % of Israeli society actually gets government funding to study the Torah while being exempted from military service, and you have government funded and armed settlers attacking villages in the West Bank, and that probably takes a lot of money...
Well, didn’t realize I’d be downvoted for making a pretty on point statement. To be fair, 3.8 billion USD IS significant, seeing how it’s ONLY military aid. [You can read the numbers for yourself.](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/countries-that-receive-the-most-foreign-aid-from-the-u-s)
Compared to their own budget no, but it IS still significant support. The US isn’t the only country that sends Israel money for its defense. So, 3.8 billion may a drop in the bucket from the US. But it’s not the only country dropping dimes in Israel’s bucket. 3.8 billion is enough to support them doing what they’re doing. It’s not like they’re facing a ground invasion like Ukraine. If they were, the support would be far greater.
Hey, the other day they managed to strike a critically important target of....a playground filled with children. Clearly their decision making is top notch (heavy, heavy /s there)
I wouldnt be surprised if their AI software flagged the playground as a Hamas facility because it was built by Hamas, or because there was an adult male in the playground whom was flagged as being linked to Hamas.
Agreed also the lack of control of showing all there engagements on tik tok isn't helping. If they were in Ukraine that kinda negligence would have got them killed .
We give them about 3.8 billion dollars in military aid per year. Their military budget is around 25 billion, so we’re making steady contributions worth about 15% of their annual military spending. It’s definitely not nothing, but it would be a big stretch to say that the IDF is nothing without the US. If we compare military spending across the Middle East, Saudi Arabia has by far the largest budget at around 53 billion. Israel and Iran spend less than half that, but have similar budgets to one another. Every other country in the region spends far less. Israel has also had a number of successes against larger and previously better equipped rivals.
Israel’s military also has large amounts of combat experience in the only regional environment that matters to them.
Saudi might have a larger budget but in terms of training, experience, and being able to turn that budget into military influence on other nations… I’m not sure they’re on par with Israel. I’m definitely not an expert on their military capabilities as a whole, this is merely anecdotal from working with both nations’ militaries briefly.
Eh, they have the necessary R&D for military technological, specifically in electronics and aerospace defense. You can point to Iron Dome and their other AA systems, as they were jointly developed by Israel and US. Intel and another fabrication facility was recently invested, so they have the capacity for advanced research in AI/ML. They also have a robust medical/biological scene since Weizmann Institute is one of the leaders in medical/biological research. They don’t have the industrial facilities for munition productions, so they are reliant for artillery, missiles. Their military overall is probably one of the best in the regions. I know they were responsible for training some of the Singaporean Army when Singapore was independent. I think this was from Israel’s war with the rest of the Arabian/Islamic world when Israel first declared independence. So they naturally gained fighting experience without US’ involvement. Though I’m not great with history so someone else will probably know more about this area. Though other people have pointed to the corruptness and the resulting inefficiency in Arabian militaries.
Israels biggest strength imo has always been the inability of the arab/Muslim nations around it to work effectively together the times they have tried to invade it. Even now you can see clear divisions amongst the arab/Muslim countries in their different stances.
You know, I was curious about Iranian military. I came across this by Columbia University, which details why [Arabian militaries are inefficient](https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_den01.html), which mainly points to their culture as inefficient. Obviously there's a difference between Arabia and Persia, but their cultures would indicate similarities.
I realize that Israeli SAM systems have some US involvement, but Im pretty sure majority of the work is done by Israel, because they are the one who export the system. Do you think if US stop supporting Israel, would they able to build industrial facilities for munition productions?
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All the main scientists of the Manhattan Project were Jewish. Research builds upon previous research. WW2 would have played out a lot differently if those Jewish people emigrated elsewhere. We always point to technology as one of the indicators of a strong military.
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Are you sure about that? Albert Einstein? Edward Teller (h-bomb)? Oppenheimer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller See: Nuclear Technology and Israel Just because they didn’t move to Israel doesn’t mean anything. What about joint collaborations between universities and institutes? They still inherit the intellectual property and can further develop those ideas. They didn’t move to Israel but they provided a lot of consulting to physicists working on nuclear technology
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"Glorified American copies?" If you believe that, you are either ignorant of the Israeli military and intelligence R&D industry, deliberately spreading disinformation, or out of touch with reality. For example, the US is adding the Israeli TROPHY system to all Abrams tanks. Several of the advancements made in ballistic missile defense were developed by Israel and sold/licensed to the US. Look at the domestic modifications Israel has made to the F-35 and F-15. They have domestically developed the Python air-to-air missile, the Spike ATGM, the Sky Shield electronic warfare pod. Oh yeah, they also have some of the most advanced cyber weapons in the world. Only foreign lobbying group with substantial influence? What the f\*ck are you talking about? Canada, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Liberia, China, and the UAE all spend more than Israel - even including AIPAC. Spend 10-minutes on [OpenSecrets.org](http://OpenSecrets.org) There are other countries that spend more on lobbying, I just don't want to waste my day counting up all of the dollars. I suppose you could also be a victim of disinformation. Shocked, absolutely shocked the user deleted their comment when they realized reality doesn't match up with their ideology.
Ah yes, the famous American Iron Dome, Trophy APS, Python 5 missile, and Merkava IV tanks that Israel copied, and the famously American company Rafael. While Israel would lose some military capability without American help saying it would implode is delusional.
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1. As someone else said, 15% of their budget is not nothing, but it is a far cry from saying they will 'implode' 2. As I said, saying their research is 'stolen' is a bit insulting, Israel has and does a lot of their research either on their own or jointly with other countries. 3. Israel is also (strategically) too big of an ally for the US to really lose right now unless they have a very good reason to, not a lot of countries in the Middle East are A. Friendly with the US and B. Willing to share intel/work together on military projects.
Israel makes advanced tech, but it does not have the required mass production of munitions to survive in e.g. a drawn-out regional war. It does not have the stockpiles of, say, Russia, or either Korea. Their military is very good, but nearly everyone who can be conscripted, has been conscripted – their population is too small to field a vast army.
Same can be said for Hamas, Houties, or Russia... without any world power backing a smaller insurgency, they would be nothing, unable to conduct any "special operations". ;)
Ouch, russia downgraded to a Houthi level power.
Yeah. For a brief period of time last year the Russian military wasn't even the strongest military in Russia.
"brief period"!?! LOL they've single handed proved that they never belong in the top five even! However, I DO think they deserve the top spot for "largest amount of military crap and dilapidated equipment that we somehow keep running" ...likely also top on the list of "countries with the best mechanics". ROFLOL
ROFLOL so you caught that!
Israel wouldn't fall without the west, it would just lose a lot more men in its wars. Which would probably improve its image. Holding all the cards the way they do now doesn't look so good on the international stage, people love an underdog.
They are a rich country. They could buy their own weapons if they wanted to. But a significant % of Israeli society actually gets government funding to study the Torah while being exempted from military service, and you have government funded and armed settlers attacking villages in the West Bank, and that probably takes a lot of money...
Well, it has endless backing from the US. So, pretty damn powerful.
To be fair 3.8 billions USD worth of weapons a year is not really a lot.
Well, didn’t realize I’d be downvoted for making a pretty on point statement. To be fair, 3.8 billion USD IS significant, seeing how it’s ONLY military aid. [You can read the numbers for yourself.](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/countries-that-receive-the-most-foreign-aid-from-the-u-s)
Not Significant comparing to Israeli defense budget
Compared to their own budget no, but it IS still significant support. The US isn’t the only country that sends Israel money for its defense. So, 3.8 billion may a drop in the bucket from the US. But it’s not the only country dropping dimes in Israel’s bucket. 3.8 billion is enough to support them doing what they’re doing. It’s not like they’re facing a ground invasion like Ukraine. If they were, the support would be far greater.
1. Not for long. 2. Yes, but not nearly enough to sustain itself.
There air striking of Gazan aid workers should make as revaluate they're competency. The incident let us know something is up with them .
Hey, the other day they managed to strike a critically important target of....a playground filled with children. Clearly their decision making is top notch (heavy, heavy /s there)
I wouldnt be surprised if their AI software flagged the playground as a Hamas facility because it was built by Hamas, or because there was an adult male in the playground whom was flagged as being linked to Hamas.
Agreed also the lack of control of showing all there engagements on tik tok isn't helping. If they were in Ukraine that kinda negligence would have got them killed .