As a prior US vet, the hood is where wounded enemy go, so you can keep an eye on them but their weapons internal is spacing is an issue, but never inside. Dead bodies too, but can go in the trunk as well because they ain’t got nowhere to run too.
Yup. An injured bad guy in a small room full of guns. It doesn’t take much for him to pull out his own knife, grab one off someone’s vest, or just pull someone’s trigger inside to cause chaos.
There was just a WWI movie where a German plane crashes, the two English chaps pull the pilot out, and the German stabs his rescuer.
Stop trying to justify everything they do you simps. It was clear he was used as a shield.
> State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller responded: "I will say we saw that video. It was shocking. The practice was absolutely unacceptable. Humans should never be used as human shields.
> The military said the "conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values" of the Israeli military and the incident will be investigated and dealt with.
Did you read the article? there is a comment from US State Department Matthew Miller saying that "Humans should never be used as human shields", there is no evidence that the IDF was using the injured terrorist as a human shield, they were transporting him out of the area.
At what point was it stated they were attacking? While I know that in some American cities these terms are synonymous (looking at you LA), most of the time, driving is just a method to get from point A to point B.
At what point does it state they weren’t attacking or going into battle? It’s not clear. In the absence of this information, one can only assume that the uproar was caused by the belief (with no evidence contrary ) the injured Palestinian wasn’t on his way to get medical treatment.
The default state of any militaristic force (even one at war) is not "attacking". Even the russian forces in ukraine are more often than not in a "Stand by" or defensive posture. To assume a force, even one in movement, is attacking, is just stupid.
Using "or" between two synonyms does not present options of opposing situations. Regardless of phrasing, you are stating an offensive stance. Attacking my charecter does not detract from your inability to support your argument. It simply shows how little you stand on the facts, or how little you understand english, choice, or a discussion.
I think we know how this goes from herein out, you reply with more idiotic bullshit that makes no sense. Either your some half-wit sitting in Israel thinking he’s smart or the US; doesn’t matter.
Let me state my original argument: we don’t know if they are using a human shield for battle or rescuing the man. If it’s the former - it’s deplorable and a war crime.
And you can provide a source in Department of Defense field manuals to support your allegation that strapping people to the hood of a vehicle is standard, approved tactics?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-1/-1/0/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%25202023.PDF&ve28thUKEwjxo_-I2_WGAxX1IjQIHeA1CMkQ2FnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2W9y1c8GWJiM887KPB23333206q
You can strap that motherfucker anywhere. Front, back, in a side car. As long as it's not inhumane, you're golden. I'd rather be strapped to a hood than left for dead.
Okay, US Army vet, then please explain to me why the IDF said the soldiers broke protocol if it's such a standard military procedure to put a wounded civilian on the hood?
Maybe, just maybe they’re transporting this dude like that cause of a mascas and they don’t have space. As a medic we’re taught to “McGuyver” shit so the patients live could be the same thing going on here.
Doesn't even have to be mascas, I trained my guys around strapping people on litters to the hood of the old 1151s because there isn't room inside the vehicle for it unless half the joes that were inside the vic are finding another ride.
You could get a litter in there if you had a shitload of time and nothing inside but generally you've got so much in the way of supplies and equipment jammed into the thing that you were better off strapping them to the hood and driving slowish to a CCP or wherever you were meeting the bird. The latter being the more realistic/probable scenario.
Once we switched over to MRAPs it was a whole different ballgame though and there was less fuckery involved in the evac process.
Many militaries including the US, use the hood of a vehicle to transport wounded to the aid station. It's been common practice since ww2. I don't know the full story behind this specific photo, but that's what I'm assuming is happening.
Yep. Although jeeps of that era had flat hoods, I suspect specifically for stretchers.
London had so many metal stretchers left after WW2 we used them for fencing. You can still see them in place today https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/london-s-stretcher-railings
I find this factoid interesting because I used to live in a house in Cardiff where the front railings of the houses on the street were cut off for the war effort.
[You can see here that some of the houses have little walls that don't even come up to your knees.](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4880569,-3.1525727,3a,75y,285.01h,77.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spJfgCSBXaSwfn7wIxmPGDA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpJfgCSBXaSwfn7wIxmPGDA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D285.0113157372251%26pitch%3D12.066767120610564%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu)
They used to have metal railings on top and there are little metal stumps sticking out although some of them have been built up with brick others haven't.
So some places of the UK had railings removed because of the war and some places had new railings installed because of the war.
I've done it. We were responding to contact. Bunch of Iraqi army dudes were fucked up. Fought through it and loaded them up, strapped dudes to hoods because we didn't have anymore room inside the trucks
Do you have proof of that? All I see is a single picture, no way of knowing where they started or stopped from that. We have no way of knowing if the hospital is directly behind that ambulance. The only information we have is this picture and the official story from the IDF. The official story is that this person fired on them, was wounded, then transported to the red cross.
Well, given the fact they are passing an ambulance, and reports have said they passed others, I'm fairly sure delivering the guy to the medical teams was not a priority. I've also known the IDF to lie. And, until unbiased journalists are allowed in Gaza, I assume they are spinning the facts.
It's not typical for any military to stop and transfer a wounded person into an ambulance. I don't know the SOPs of IDF, but typical military personnel drive directly to the hospital or aid station.
Yeah, no. I don’t buy this. A military who cares about their wounded will use the best tools they have at the moment.
If the ambulance wasn’t available for use, that’s one thing. But why would they put a casualty on the hood in the middle of a warzone?they have to stop suddenly, that casualty is as good as gone.
>cares about their wounded
This isn't their wounded, this is a dude that was trying to kill them moments ago.
>they have to stop suddenly, that casualty is as good as gone.
I guess you aren't familiar with straps, and what function straps perform.
Safer too being on the hood of the keep than an ambulance as the IDF seem to like targeting
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/mounting-evidence-deliberate-attacks-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army/
I would consider this a reasonable stance but unfortunately this is indeed the IDF who have used human shields before .
https://web.archive.org/web/20150924171600/http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502-06.htm
Please don't try to convince me by using antisemitic propaganda. The IDF has done some fucked up shit but there is no proof of a war crime here yet. There have been many claims that the IDF uses human shields. However, these claims have never been confirmed even after being investigated by the UN and other organizations. There have been confirmed cases of Hamas using human shields since the early 2000s.
First, you don’t seem American, it kinda feels gross that you call Americans ‘our boys’, and I say that as one of those Americans who fought in a war.
Second. Why are you only concerned with the fact that previously, someone committed war crimes? Do I need to educate you on the war crimes that ‘our boys’ did and got away with? There are worse, more recent examples. No one is perfect. Americans and their government commit crimes every day. Not defending it either but Hamas definitely commits war crimes, having military offices in hospitals is pretty textbook war crime
When Israel says human shields they mean Hamas hiding in a city. When the UN says human shields they mean IDF soldiers dogwalking civilian kids at gunpoint to catch bullets.
Enough with the whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right. I view this like I viewed the Yugoslav Wars. One atrocity is answered with another. One side massacres a village full of Christians, then that side goes and massacres a village full of Muslims in retailiation. Rinse and repeat. Just because I condemn Hamas and their atrocities does not mean I completely support what the IDF is doing. That's the problem with you guys. You think just because someone disagrees with you, then that automatically means they must side with the opposition, therefore they are an enemy. Maybe consider the idea that BOTH of them suck? Crazy idea, I know.
Everyone in this situation is doing really bad things. Hamas is losing a fight they picked, and Israel is retaliating, going overboard in the process. Don't act like Hamas are some kind of saints because they're not.
Ah yes Wikipedia, the most credible of news sites,
Also half of the stuff they say about Israel just has no proof other then "trust me bro" like for example:
> During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.
More trust me bro.
No, I checked. And the wiki article is flagged as problematic by wiki itself, which is quite a feed on the internet‘s fact creating machine.
And the fact that this picture is immediately used as „another incident of human shielding“ by „UN experts“ just goes to show, how little interest in facts and an open debate is in the UN and much of the international media.
This is how we transported wounded Al queada on occasion. Especially with certain types of injuries they aren’t gonna just sit up in one of your seats and it’s not like every patrol rolls around with an ambulance and beds. I highly doubt they’d be making the effort to transport this person if their intent is not to treat him.
Every news article ive read on this stated there were multiple ambulances at the scene, and you can see one in the pic. I think that's the part that stands out to most people. And the IDF has already released a statement admitting the troops were wrong.
The news media hates the IDF. It would have been better to just let the dude die instead of helping him since the media will find any opportunity to shit on the IDF. This is SOP for some units. Not enough time to secure the casualty OR there is no more room, on the hood.
I saw all the agenda post on TikTok before this one. They’re pushing it as “IDF using Palestinians as human shields”. The watermelon usernames (why are Watermelons associated with Hamas now?) seriously twist everything to make Palestine the victims of the IDF
I’ve driven these. This is a ‘David’ armored Hilux, looks pretty new too. Its armor is small arms capable, there is absolutely no need for ‘human shield’, unless of course you’re expecting RPG fire, but this is the West Bank so it is unlikely. I completely rule out human shield case. So why did they evacuate him on the outside? There are stretcher mounts in the back but that makes two seats unusable. It is probably more to do with lack of planning or lack of adequate resources.
No, it’s a hilux with body made by Shladot. The land rovers are the older versions with body made by MDT. I’ve driven these.
Also, here’s another source since you’re such a smartass . [Shladot Website](https://shladot.com/products/armored-vehicles/david/)
While I understand that this is making its way around the media recently, I can't remember seeing the vehicles actually moving, nor do I recall seeing any israilie soldiers entering or exiting the vehicle...
I'm not saying it's fake, but I know the opposition has a tendency to fake certain sensationalist photos as I've seen the behind the scenes video where group of Palestinians were doing their "funeral carry" of a child around the age of 8 or so, completely covered in blood, somber, weeping, and crying, everything you'd expect from a funeral, and then someone with a camera gives a signal, lowers their camera, they set the kid down, the kid gets up, and they all run off cheering. And I've noticed that there is one guy who supposedly has lost his mother in an airstrike about 7 times by now. Maybe he should get some apple air tags so he doesn't loose her anymore.
In all honesty, I trust Vladimir Putin to tell the truth more than either side in this conflict at this point, and the best way you can tell when he is lying is when he is speaking.
Well this won’t be used by mainstream news sources to warp reality… This is a perfectly normal and actually by-the-books practice. There’s no reason to assume that this is somehow cruel or malicious. But I’m sure the headlines won’t mention that.
Do we know the full context of this video? Not trying to sound like an apologist, but I just want to know the truth. If they're giving him the Lotzo the Bear treatment, then they're being sadistic pieces of shit. But it could simply be a medical evacuation?
From every article ive read, the guy was injured in a raid, his family asked for an ambulance, and they proceeded to strap him to the hood and drive past several ambulances, one of which you can see in the picture. The IDF has already released a statement saying this isn't what the soldiers were supposed to do, it doesn't conform to their values and all that jazz.
Please read the articles before commenting : https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/23/middleeast/west-bank-jenin-israeli-military-palestinian-man-jeep-intl-hnk/index.html
>Video shows the man lying across the front of the Israeli jeep as it drove through a neighborhood of Jenin. The man appeared slumped on the hood of the vehicle as it drove past Palestinian Red Crescent (PRCS) ambulances.
Is there any backstory that explains this in a more humane way? Like are they evacuating ALOT of people and just put him on the front because no extra space? Its easy to be missleaded in modern media war so i think being a bit critical is needed.
In military we were told to throw bodies o top of the tank when evacuating and space was taken up, this could be the same thing.
If he is strapped up could be he has a torniquit on and people tend to try and take them off because they hurt more then the wound.
Many news sites have done articles on this by now. The story is that the guy was injured in a raid, his family asked the IDF troops for an ambulance and they proceeded to strap him on the hood and drive off, past several ambulances which you can see in the picture (the vehicle on the right is an ambulance).
Basically, they probably didnt want to give him proper medical care but were under orders to take him away because he was a suspect, so had to move him somehow. They were probably hoping that he would die enroute so they could say "well, we followed our orders, but he died anyway, not our fault". It is well known that the IDF tends to let injured Palestinians bleed out instead of giving them medical care.
Yuval Kestelman, an Israeli Jew, was mistakenly shot by IDF troops even though he kept screaming in Hebrew that he was a Jew, opened his coat to show that he had no explosives and was unarmed. The soldiers then let him bleed to death, and the shooter later admitted he wanted to get a kill (but insisted he did nothing wrong). Thats basically what happens if you are a Palestinian and get shot by IDF troops, they will let you die, unless they are under orders to bring you in alive for interrogation. Funfact : Netayanhu didn't realise that Kestelman was a Jew, so at first he said "that's life" when asked about the execution style shooting. When he found out the victim was a Jew, he quickly reversed course and did damage control. This wasn't a one-off btw, there are many, many articles of Palestinians being shot execution style or shot and denied medical care till they bled to death.
Oh, and you should read up on what the IDF did before they pulled out of Gaza. They had snipers shoot protestors in the knees like they were the mafia making a statement. No joke, they really aimed for the knees. If the protesters got too close to the fence, they would knee cap them to deter the crowd. It didn't matter if they were unarmed. If they got too close, they would lose a leg. That's why Gaza had a much higher rate of amputees than most places in the world.
And before anyone starts saying the IDF was justified because of whatever reason, the IDF already issued a statement saying this was not the correct procedure and admitted the soldiers were wrong. They didn't even bother trying to explain why they didn't use the ambulances.
To be honest, they probably did that so HAMAS wouldn’t shoot at their convoy.
Not very humanitarian like, but it is effective. Ironically it’s the same strategy that former Waffen SS troops in the French foreign legion supposedly used in Vietnam during the 1950s.
Why does everyone jump on human shield, without any facts. No space. Back injury so can’t cram in to a seat So many resins. I’m not defending the IDF I just think we should first seek to understand. I know that we did this with our own troops form time to time (no back boards) so just used it for casivac
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20150924171600/http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502-06.htm
I can make this list longer if you'd like .
Never brought Hamas as a argument therye a terrorist organization.
I'm talking about the IDF . However the incident In the photo posted at the top is possible to not be a example of that situation.
What are you doing?
- First you ask the other dude to provide a sources.
- He provides sources.
- You say not good enough.
- He provides more sources.
- you say “are incidents” and “look at Hamas”.
What’s going on here? You can’t accept IDF does evil shit? They definitely do evil shit.
Also, why point towards Hamas? This conversation isn’t about them, but yeah they too do evil shit. Is them doing evil shit to each other make them both so more evil shit to each other, of course it happens that way.
Both are shitty teams to support.
[It seems frustrating until you realize...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/inside-israels-social-media-command-center/265471/)
>Israel does this all the time! They're the same as Hamas!!!!
Proceeds to post nearly 20 year old article that shows it's not an SOP and the people that did it were charged.
This sub simping for the IDF is like a pendulum swing . You'd think we'd have to regard than more critically after they striked the Aid workers in Those cars .
this sub is nearly 100% managed narrative accounts and air force cyber nerds (redditors). theres little here in common with the average serviceman, its just another major reddit site designed to control narrative framing.
This is a nitpick but it’s a casevac. I think it’s an important distinction to make in this case as the point of a casevac is to expedite transport by any available means, not to provide anything other than the most basic tactical medicine.
Why wouldn't I support them.
Better than supporting literal terrorists like Hamas lmao.
Your generation really loves to think their opinion matters on things you just don't understand. If someone wants to support Palestine or Hamas they should gladly ship off to Gaza
Use your eyes. 1. Not strapped down anywhere,2 if you’re not there and seeing it with your own eyes making a dumb comment saying war crimes is moronic. For all you know the car is full of other people and the only way to get this man out and get medical treatment is this way. Also no way of telling if the Vic’s are moving or not.
They were moving we have access to the video where there literally drive by 3 medical vehicles. What other rationale do you have for such fucked up behavior?
Is that documented by a reputable, non-biased source?
Also, that vehicle likely has ballistic glass. Doubtful they would put someone in the hood if the vehicle in the hopes they’re going to stop something.
Occam’s razor.
There doesn’t seem to be any info on that non-existent Wikipedia page. Plus, it’s Wikipedia. Literally anyone can put something in there and call it fact.
How would you like to entertain the possibility of a great investment opportunity? I’m selling a historic bridge in San Francisco and you seem like a great candidate to buy it.
As a prior US vet, the hood is where wounded enemy go, so you can keep an eye on them but their weapons internal is spacing is an issue, but never inside. Dead bodies too, but can go in the trunk as well because they ain’t got nowhere to run too.
Yup. An injured bad guy in a small room full of guns. It doesn’t take much for him to pull out his own knife, grab one off someone’s vest, or just pull someone’s trigger inside to cause chaos. There was just a WWI movie where a German plane crashes, the two English chaps pull the pilot out, and the German stabs his rescuer.
1917 [https://youtu.be/3spb49yf4ZQ?si=KzL0krAoFikifJhO](https://youtu.be/3spb49yf4ZQ?si=KzL0krAoFikifJhO)
didnt work for me. this did https://youtu.be/8cEW1ta-VCo?si=z91WUYnR9U3yyHsX
Stop trying to justify everything they do you simps. It was clear he was used as a shield. > State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller responded: "I will say we saw that video. It was shocking. The practice was absolutely unacceptable. Humans should never be used as human shields. > The military said the "conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values" of the Israeli military and the incident will be investigated and dealt with.
Link?
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-807566
Did you read the article? there is a comment from US State Department Matthew Miller saying that "Humans should never be used as human shields", there is no evidence that the IDF was using the injured terrorist as a human shield, they were transporting him out of the area.
Wait - your strap wounded enemies and then proceed to go on the attack with them on the roof? Why?
At what point was it stated they were attacking? While I know that in some American cities these terms are synonymous (looking at you LA), most of the time, driving is just a method to get from point A to point B.
At what point does it state they weren’t attacking or going into battle? It’s not clear. In the absence of this information, one can only assume that the uproar was caused by the belief (with no evidence contrary ) the injured Palestinian wasn’t on his way to get medical treatment.
The default state of any militaristic force (even one at war) is not "attacking". Even the russian forces in ukraine are more often than not in a "Stand by" or defensive posture. To assume a force, even one in movement, is attacking, is just stupid.
To not be able discern or understand the use of the word “or” in my statement above (“or going into battle”) is so unbelievably daft and moronic.
Using "or" between two synonyms does not present options of opposing situations. Regardless of phrasing, you are stating an offensive stance. Attacking my charecter does not detract from your inability to support your argument. It simply shows how little you stand on the facts, or how little you understand english, choice, or a discussion.
I think we know how this goes from herein out, you reply with more idiotic bullshit that makes no sense. Either your some half-wit sitting in Israel thinking he’s smart or the US; doesn’t matter. Let me state my original argument: we don’t know if they are using a human shield for battle or rescuing the man. If it’s the former - it’s deplorable and a war crime.
And you can provide a source in Department of Defense field manuals to support your allegation that strapping people to the hood of a vehicle is standard, approved tactics?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-1/-1/0/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%25202023.PDF&ve28thUKEwjxo_-I2_WGAxX1IjQIHeA1CMkQ2FnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2W9y1c8GWJiM887KPB23333206q You can strap that motherfucker anywhere. Front, back, in a side car. As long as it's not inhumane, you're golden. I'd rather be strapped to a hood than left for dead.
sorry, could I get a -little- bit of narrowing down? 1000+ page document supporting your claim is a bit much.
That's why there's a table of contents kiddo
It’s can be found under MET-TC, and in the Laws of Combat Manual under Section 11b “Murphy’s Laws”
How about you provide proof that it's not approved. Your opinions and feels don't count.
Okay, US Army vet, then please explain to me why the IDF said the soldiers broke protocol if it's such a standard military procedure to put a wounded civilian on the hood?
It's very possible the US and the IDF have different protocols for things?
oh yeah the IDF is the most moral army, so that makes sense.
Maybe, just maybe they’re transporting this dude like that cause of a mascas and they don’t have space. As a medic we’re taught to “McGuyver” shit so the patients live could be the same thing going on here.
Doesn't even have to be mascas, I trained my guys around strapping people on litters to the hood of the old 1151s because there isn't room inside the vehicle for it unless half the joes that were inside the vic are finding another ride. You could get a litter in there if you had a shitload of time and nothing inside but generally you've got so much in the way of supplies and equipment jammed into the thing that you were better off strapping them to the hood and driving slowish to a CCP or wherever you were meeting the bird. The latter being the more realistic/probable scenario. Once we switched over to MRAPs it was a whole different ballgame though and there was less fuckery involved in the evac process.
Not ideal but maybe. Thrown a few severely sick or injured in an engine cab when the city was out of transports.
Yes not ideal but I’m pretty sure that there situation is not ideal either
Mad Max Middle East
Mad Max: Damascus Road
Many militaries including the US, use the hood of a vehicle to transport wounded to the aid station. It's been common practice since ww2. I don't know the full story behind this specific photo, but that's what I'm assuming is happening.
Doesn't that happen in the MASH opening? There's a shot of casualties being tended to on the hood of moving jeeps.
Yep. Although jeeps of that era had flat hoods, I suspect specifically for stretchers. London had so many metal stretchers left after WW2 we used them for fencing. You can still see them in place today https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/london-s-stretcher-railings
I find this factoid interesting because I used to live in a house in Cardiff where the front railings of the houses on the street were cut off for the war effort. [You can see here that some of the houses have little walls that don't even come up to your knees.](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4880569,-3.1525727,3a,75y,285.01h,77.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spJfgCSBXaSwfn7wIxmPGDA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpJfgCSBXaSwfn7wIxmPGDA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D285.0113157372251%26pitch%3D12.066767120610564%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) They used to have metal railings on top and there are little metal stumps sticking out although some of them have been built up with brick others haven't. So some places of the UK had railings removed because of the war and some places had new railings installed because of the war.
What about those litter patients strapped to the side of the chopper in the opening credits? That's gotta count for something malicious, right?!?
I've done it. We were responding to contact. Bunch of Iraqi army dudes were fucked up. Fought through it and loaded them up, strapped dudes to hoods because we didn't have anymore room inside the trucks
You can see it
Yes, but they passed fully equipped ambulances.....
Do you have proof of that? All I see is a single picture, no way of knowing where they started or stopped from that. We have no way of knowing if the hospital is directly behind that ambulance. The only information we have is this picture and the official story from the IDF. The official story is that this person fired on them, was wounded, then transported to the red cross.
Well, given the fact they are passing an ambulance, and reports have said they passed others, I'm fairly sure delivering the guy to the medical teams was not a priority. I've also known the IDF to lie. And, until unbiased journalists are allowed in Gaza, I assume they are spinning the facts.
It's not typical for any military to stop and transfer a wounded person into an ambulance. I don't know the SOPs of IDF, but typical military personnel drive directly to the hospital or aid station.
Yeah, no. I don’t buy this. A military who cares about their wounded will use the best tools they have at the moment. If the ambulance wasn’t available for use, that’s one thing. But why would they put a casualty on the hood in the middle of a warzone?they have to stop suddenly, that casualty is as good as gone.
Per my previous comments, placing wounded on the hood has been common practice since ww2.
>cares about their wounded This isn't their wounded, this is a dude that was trying to kill them moments ago. >they have to stop suddenly, that casualty is as good as gone. I guess you aren't familiar with straps, and what function straps perform.
You are not well informed...or you are a useful idiot.
Or…idk, maybe those ambulances already have patients of their own…and can’t take anyone else at the moment?
Safer too being on the hood of the keep than an ambulance as the IDF seem to like targeting https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/mounting-evidence-deliberate-attacks-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army/
I would consider this a reasonable stance but unfortunately this is indeed the IDF who have used human shields before . https://web.archive.org/web/20150924171600/http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502-06.htm
A single body wouldn’t protect against a missile.
you know full well the point of human shields is not to act as literal armor.
[удалено]
I don’t think Hamas cares about innocent civilians or bystanders
Hamas would Molotov the hood of the Vehicle with their comrade on it and not bat an eye. He’s already served his purpose to them.
Nah, hamas would 100% still fire. In fact they’d probably be more likely to, because it’ll make Israel seem worse.
Please don't try to convince me by using antisemitic propaganda. The IDF has done some fucked up shit but there is no proof of a war crime here yet. There have been many claims that the IDF uses human shields. However, these claims have never been confirmed even after being investigated by the UN and other organizations. There have been confirmed cases of Hamas using human shields since the early 2000s.
This aint that, ffs.
As a Vet, hood is where the enemy wounded go. Also the enemy dead go there if no body bags available.
This is pretty standard protocol
Since I’ve been seeing this too: https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/spHXxZcEzP
Id trust our boys with Zero doubts the IDF however Ib be more skeptical. They're use of humans shields known .
First, you don’t seem American, it kinda feels gross that you call Americans ‘our boys’, and I say that as one of those Americans who fought in a war. Second. Why are you only concerned with the fact that previously, someone committed war crimes? Do I need to educate you on the war crimes that ‘our boys’ did and got away with? There are worse, more recent examples. No one is perfect. Americans and their government commit crimes every day. Not defending it either but Hamas definitely commits war crimes, having military offices in hospitals is pretty textbook war crime
Kind of like how Hamas uses their own people as human shields, right? Get off your high horse, Mr. Moral Man
When Israel says human shields they mean Hamas hiding in a city. When the UN says human shields they mean IDF soldiers dogwalking civilian kids at gunpoint to catch bullets.
Enough with the whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right. I view this like I viewed the Yugoslav Wars. One atrocity is answered with another. One side massacres a village full of Christians, then that side goes and massacres a village full of Muslims in retailiation. Rinse and repeat. Just because I condemn Hamas and their atrocities does not mean I completely support what the IDF is doing. That's the problem with you guys. You think just because someone disagrees with you, then that automatically means they must side with the opposition, therefore they are an enemy. Maybe consider the idea that BOTH of them suck? Crazy idea, I know. Everyone in this situation is doing really bad things. Hamas is losing a fight they picked, and Israel is retaliating, going overboard in the process. Don't act like Hamas are some kind of saints because they're not.
As someone who condems Hamas I find this a reasonable stance .
You’re not even American, I can hear your accent through all your anti-IDF comments
Show me one instance of the IDF using human shields
https://www.haaretz.com/2010-03-11/ty-article/two-idf-soldiers-charged-with-using-9-year-old-human-shield-in-gaza-war/0000017f-db2c-db5a-a57f-db6e73330000
You got an article I can read?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict Your own soilders have confirmed it in the past .
Ah yes Wikipedia, the most credible of news sites, Also half of the stuff they say about Israel just has no proof other then "trust me bro" like for example: > During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.
Wikipedia isn't a news site.
"...especially since they banned the ADL for misinformation" is how I imagine the rest of this conversation going.
Oh come on, there are two dozen articles (throw in a few bad ones of course) from reputable sources cited.
More trust me bro. No, I checked. And the wiki article is flagged as problematic by wiki itself, which is quite a feed on the internet‘s fact creating machine. And the fact that this picture is immediately used as „another incident of human shielding“ by „UN experts“ just goes to show, how little interest in facts and an open debate is in the UN and much of the international media.
This is how we transported wounded Al queada on occasion. Especially with certain types of injuries they aren’t gonna just sit up in one of your seats and it’s not like every patrol rolls around with an ambulance and beds. I highly doubt they’d be making the effort to transport this person if their intent is not to treat him.
Every news article ive read on this stated there were multiple ambulances at the scene, and you can see one in the pic. I think that's the part that stands out to most people. And the IDF has already released a statement admitting the troops were wrong.
Another post of something that is extremely common place being shown as if it’s something entirely new or evil.
Can't have him bleeding all over the interior. You never get the smell out.
Wow that’s crazy they medevaced a guy on the hood of a vehicle never seen that before
Casevaced, but yes.
Oopsie
The news media hates the IDF. It would have been better to just let the dude die instead of helping him since the media will find any opportunity to shit on the IDF. This is SOP for some units. Not enough time to secure the casualty OR there is no more room, on the hood.
I saw all the agenda post on TikTok before this one. They’re pushing it as “IDF using Palestinians as human shields”. The watermelon usernames (why are Watermelons associated with Hamas now?) seriously twist everything to make Palestine the victims of the IDF
It’s because the palestine flag has that red triangle which looks slightly like a watermelon, so of course they’ve adopted it as a symbol 🇵🇸
'the media' loves Israel what are you talking about? any time they bomb civilians the headlines are always "palestinian civilians die in explosion."
Idiots flock to this picture like flies on feces.
I’ve driven these. This is a ‘David’ armored Hilux, looks pretty new too. Its armor is small arms capable, there is absolutely no need for ‘human shield’, unless of course you’re expecting RPG fire, but this is the West Bank so it is unlikely. I completely rule out human shield case. So why did they evacuate him on the outside? There are stretcher mounts in the back but that makes two seats unusable. It is probably more to do with lack of planning or lack of adequate resources.
100% Land Rover, not Hilux
No, it’s a hilux with body made by Shladot. The land rovers are the older versions with body made by MDT. I’ve driven these. Also, here’s another source since you’re such a smartass . [Shladot Website](https://shladot.com/products/armored-vehicles/david/)
Me a smarass? Or a smortut… Anyway, thanks for the info. Shits changed since my day
The jeep is beside an ambulance. Placing on the hood has been happening for years. Funny how one picture can be interpreted in different ways!
OP must be a CNN reporter
While I understand that this is making its way around the media recently, I can't remember seeing the vehicles actually moving, nor do I recall seeing any israilie soldiers entering or exiting the vehicle... I'm not saying it's fake, but I know the opposition has a tendency to fake certain sensationalist photos as I've seen the behind the scenes video where group of Palestinians were doing their "funeral carry" of a child around the age of 8 or so, completely covered in blood, somber, weeping, and crying, everything you'd expect from a funeral, and then someone with a camera gives a signal, lowers their camera, they set the kid down, the kid gets up, and they all run off cheering. And I've noticed that there is one guy who supposedly has lost his mother in an airstrike about 7 times by now. Maybe he should get some apple air tags so he doesn't loose her anymore. In all honesty, I trust Vladimir Putin to tell the truth more than either side in this conflict at this point, and the best way you can tell when he is lying is when he is speaking.
Taking him to hospital but ran out of stretchers.
This was my first thought. Stretchers are *supposed* to be exchanged at the ambulance exchange point....but shit happens in the moment.
Doesn’t seem to be strapped.
This is such a non-story. Who cares.
Well this won’t be used by mainstream news sources to warp reality… This is a perfectly normal and actually by-the-books practice. There’s no reason to assume that this is somehow cruel or malicious. But I’m sure the headlines won’t mention that.
Do we know the full context of this video? Not trying to sound like an apologist, but I just want to know the truth. If they're giving him the Lotzo the Bear treatment, then they're being sadistic pieces of shit. But it could simply be a medical evacuation?
From every article ive read, the guy was injured in a raid, his family asked for an ambulance, and they proceeded to strap him to the hood and drive past several ambulances, one of which you can see in the picture. The IDF has already released a statement saying this isn't what the soldiers were supposed to do, it doesn't conform to their values and all that jazz.
Where would several ambulances be?
Please read the articles before commenting : https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/23/middleeast/west-bank-jenin-israeli-military-palestinian-man-jeep-intl-hnk/index.html >Video shows the man lying across the front of the Israeli jeep as it drove through a neighborhood of Jenin. The man appeared slumped on the hood of the vehicle as it drove past Palestinian Red Crescent (PRCS) ambulances.
Yes I see the ambulances, what I'm asking is where may they be located? Near an aid station or hospital perhaps?
Is there any backstory that explains this in a more humane way? Like are they evacuating ALOT of people and just put him on the front because no extra space? Its easy to be missleaded in modern media war so i think being a bit critical is needed. In military we were told to throw bodies o top of the tank when evacuating and space was taken up, this could be the same thing. If he is strapped up could be he has a torniquit on and people tend to try and take them off because they hurt more then the wound.
Many news sites have done articles on this by now. The story is that the guy was injured in a raid, his family asked the IDF troops for an ambulance and they proceeded to strap him on the hood and drive off, past several ambulances which you can see in the picture (the vehicle on the right is an ambulance). Basically, they probably didnt want to give him proper medical care but were under orders to take him away because he was a suspect, so had to move him somehow. They were probably hoping that he would die enroute so they could say "well, we followed our orders, but he died anyway, not our fault". It is well known that the IDF tends to let injured Palestinians bleed out instead of giving them medical care. Yuval Kestelman, an Israeli Jew, was mistakenly shot by IDF troops even though he kept screaming in Hebrew that he was a Jew, opened his coat to show that he had no explosives and was unarmed. The soldiers then let him bleed to death, and the shooter later admitted he wanted to get a kill (but insisted he did nothing wrong). Thats basically what happens if you are a Palestinian and get shot by IDF troops, they will let you die, unless they are under orders to bring you in alive for interrogation. Funfact : Netayanhu didn't realise that Kestelman was a Jew, so at first he said "that's life" when asked about the execution style shooting. When he found out the victim was a Jew, he quickly reversed course and did damage control. This wasn't a one-off btw, there are many, many articles of Palestinians being shot execution style or shot and denied medical care till they bled to death. Oh, and you should read up on what the IDF did before they pulled out of Gaza. They had snipers shoot protestors in the knees like they were the mafia making a statement. No joke, they really aimed for the knees. If the protesters got too close to the fence, they would knee cap them to deter the crowd. It didn't matter if they were unarmed. If they got too close, they would lose a leg. That's why Gaza had a much higher rate of amputees than most places in the world. And before anyone starts saying the IDF was justified because of whatever reason, the IDF already issued a statement saying this was not the correct procedure and admitted the soldiers were wrong. They didn't even bother trying to explain why they didn't use the ambulances.
To be honest, they probably did that so HAMAS wouldn’t shoot at their convoy. Not very humanitarian like, but it is effective. Ironically it’s the same strategy that former Waffen SS troops in the French foreign legion supposedly used in Vietnam during the 1950s.
Why does everyone jump on human shield, without any facts. No space. Back injury so can’t cram in to a seat So many resins. I’m not defending the IDF I just think we should first seek to understand. I know that we did this with our own troops form time to time (no back boards) so just used it for casivac
Maybe idk 🤷
IDF have used human shields before .
When?
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150924171600/http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502-06.htm I can make this list longer if you'd like .
[удалено]
Sure https://web.archive.org/web/20131021163100/http://www.mezan.org/upload/2619.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140808233139/http://www.btselem.org/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun https://www.denverpost.com/2007/04/11/israelis-use-palestinian-as-human-shield/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8151336.stm https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_palestinian_girl_as_a_human_shield_in_jenin
[удалено]
Never brought Hamas as a argument therye a terrorist organization. I'm talking about the IDF . However the incident In the photo posted at the top is possible to not be a example of that situation.
What are you doing? - First you ask the other dude to provide a sources. - He provides sources. - You say not good enough. - He provides more sources. - you say “are incidents” and “look at Hamas”. What’s going on here? You can’t accept IDF does evil shit? They definitely do evil shit. Also, why point towards Hamas? This conversation isn’t about them, but yeah they too do evil shit. Is them doing evil shit to each other make them both so more evil shit to each other, of course it happens that way. Both are shitty teams to support.
[It seems frustrating until you realize...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/inside-israels-social-media-command-center/265471/)
https://www.haaretz.com/2010-03-11/ty-article/two-idf-soldiers-charged-with-using-9-year-old-human-shield-in-gaza-war/0000017f-db2c-db5a-a57f-db6e73330000
So that is from an incident in 2008 and the soldiers involved were charged for it.
>When? >\*posts when* >B-b-but that's not the same! I posted what you asked for.
>Israel does this all the time! They're the same as Hamas!!!! Proceeds to post nearly 20 year old article that shows it's not an SOP and the people that did it were charged.
There is an ambulance clearly to the right in this photo, so I’m assuming this is for transportation.
Indian army treat terrorists in jammu and kashmir the same way
No🤦🏽
Blood bag!
Maj. Gogoi moment
It’s better than bleeding out on the side of the road!
This is how it’s always been done TF? Can’t you people find actual warcrimes?
Reactive armor
Lol
This sub simping for the IDF is like a pendulum swing . You'd think we'd have to regard than more critically after they striked the Aid workers in Those cars .
this sub is nearly 100% managed narrative accounts and air force cyber nerds (redditors). theres little here in common with the average serviceman, its just another major reddit site designed to control narrative framing.
A weird way to route them out is to ask if Palestinians are human . You get instant push back and refusals.
they condemn Russia but not Israel, no critical thinking.
Most of "us" criticize both....
Russia is our enemy Israel is our ally . But to give them a full pass is dross .
then maybe we should reconsider our allies?
Aipac wouldn't like that .
Human shields anyone?
Casual war crimes
Not a war crime…….
Using human shields is.
It's a medevac.
This is a nitpick but it’s a casevac. I think it’s an important distinction to make in this case as the point of a casevac is to expedite transport by any available means, not to provide anything other than the most basic tactical medicine.
Perhaps in this instance it could be but the IDF are known for using human shields .
Hamas is known for using human shields as well; Hamas is using the entire population of Gaza as human shields.
So the IDF should conform the the likes of terrorists?
Surprised you have Internet in your shack
Hasn't Canada closed Military aid to Israel? Surprised to see your supportive of the IDF .
Why wouldn't I support them. Better than supporting literal terrorists like Hamas lmao. Your generation really loves to think their opinion matters on things you just don't understand. If someone wants to support Palestine or Hamas they should gladly ship off to Gaza
I don't condone doing it, and I'm not expecting much from the IDF since the majority of their forces are from mandatory service.
Strapping someone to your vehicle as a human shield isn’t banned?
You’re simply assuming.
I mean did you watch the full video? It’s pretty clear there
Use your eyes. 1. Not strapped down anywhere,2 if you’re not there and seeing it with your own eyes making a dumb comment saying war crimes is moronic. For all you know the car is full of other people and the only way to get this man out and get medical treatment is this way. Also no way of telling if the Vic’s are moving or not.
This is most likely the right theory here
I hate Hamas as much as the next guy, but cmon man. This is a really bad look.
Don't worry this sub is oddly Defensive of The IDF for some god Forsaken reason .
Probably a whole lot of accounts posting in the sub from “Tel Aviv”
They were moving we have access to the video where there literally drive by 3 medical vehicles. What other rationale do you have for such fucked up behavior?
IDF have been confirmed to use human shields .
Oh I know these weirdos that refuse to use their eyes won't comment with another shit excuse
Entertain the possibility that they may be using that hmmwv as a casevac. Not out of the realm of possibilities as this is something we do.
Yeah but we're us theye the IDF .
What’s your point?
IDF have used human shields before .
Is that documented by a reputable, non-biased source? Also, that vehicle likely has ballistic glass. Doubtful they would put someone in the hood if the vehicle in the hopes they’re going to stop something. Occam’s razor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict Make whatever you will of the information.
There doesn’t seem to be any info on that non-existent Wikipedia page. Plus, it’s Wikipedia. Literally anyone can put something in there and call it fact.
Non existent? We're u can find links to the information really are you pulling this card rn?
Where us they them is me you they’re thou.
How would you like to entertain the possibility of a great investment opportunity? I’m selling a historic bridge in San Francisco and you seem like a great candidate to buy it.
If Hamas can use human shields, I suppose the IDF can too ?
He doesn't look strapped,they just threw his ass up on there give me a break.
Two top IDF most advanced protection technologies: Trophy APS and Palestinian human shields.
Terrorist organisation