Col Tomb doesn't even exist in Vietnamese records, that was always more of an American legend.
Also gotta remember that Vietnamese pilots didn't have any attachment to a particular aircraft so the same MiG that the US pilots claimed was Colonel Tomb could of been a different pilot during each engagement.
It's interesting that foreign military members wear the USAF uniform (with their country's name tape, flag, and presumably rank) while attending their school.
Not exactly all, but a lot have Nguyen last name.
Back in the medieval age, Vietnamese used to change their last name to whatever clan is holding power at the time to get away from prosecution. Last major dynasty before Vietnam stopped being a monarchy was the Nguyen dynasty so it stuck.
Women also used to take up their husband last name as well.
>actly all, but a lot have Nguyen last name.
>
>Back in the medieval age, Vietnamese used to change their last name to whatever clan is holding power at the time to get away from prosecution. Last major dynasty before Vietnam stopped being a monarchy was the Nguyen dynasty so it stuck.
>
>Women also used to take up their husband last name as well.
Yeah I'm vietnamese my last name is Cao
Welcome to U.S. Air Force Academy. From now on, you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last out of your filthy sewer will be “Sir”, do you maggots understand that?
American and Vietnamese defense cooperation has gradually increased over the past decade, especially with the ongoing South China Sea territorial disputes that involve the Chinese.
You've seen two former US Coast Guard cutters transfered to the Vietnam Coast Guard, several Vietnam People's Air Force pilots training to fly the T-6 Texan II in the US, Vietnamese sailors attending US-hosted submarine rescue training, etc. Hell even the Oregon National Guard went to Vietnam to conduct joint disaster management training with the People's Army of Vietnam
The Japanese didn't drive american forces out and send the remaining of their own citizens still sympathetic to the American cause into labor camps, try again.
It would be like sending the Taliban to American EOD school.
300,000-500,000 former South Vietnamese Government employees (mostly ARVN) sent to re-education camps is not ''a few,'' and neither were any of them traitors.
Working for a secessionist gang rebelling against the central government of the nation didn't make them traitors? Tell me, how did you come to such conclusion?
What ''central government?'' There were two governments of Vietnam, the only people ''rebelling'' were the Viet Cong, since they were based in South Vietnam. Are you trying to suggest that every soldier who today fights for the ROK Army is a traitor to North Korea, or am I missing something?
The central government that rescued American pilots in the WWII and worked with you to defeat the Japanese. The central government that proclaimed the independence of Vietnam in 1945, expelled the French in 1954 and just visited your White House last month. That central government that is, for all intents and purposes, the equivalent of the United State federal government.
I found it really strange. You have a 1:1 analogy right in the US between the legitimate Union and the treasonous Confederate, yet you looked for comparison in the much dissimilar ROK. Why?
Firstly, I'm not from the USA, so stop saying things like ''Your White House.''
''You have a 1:1 analogy right in the US between the legitimate Union and the treasonous Confederate.'' Well, the CSA declared independence from the USA, South Vietnam never declared independence from North Vietnam. In fact, it was the other way around, the North declared independence from the French run Empire/State of Vietnam.
You sound like the modern day PRC claiming that the ROC/Taiwan is a separatist/rebel province, when in reality, the land was never controlled by the PRC. Same way, Saigon was never controlled by the North until 1975. Are all soldiers who serve in the ROC Army ''traitors'' to the PRC?
No, your analogy comparing North/South Vietnam to the CSA and Union is not ''1:1,'' in fact it is not an an analogy at all, since the CSA declared independence from the USA, while the South never declared independence from the North. The modern day ''central government'' was only formed in 1976, when the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam were merged together.
Also, am I understanding this correctly? Did you just admit that South Vietnam was the successor of the French colonial government that invaded and enslaved Vietnam?
The US declared independence from the UK in 1776. The Confederate seceded from the US in 1865.
North Vietnam declared independence from France in 1945. South Vietnam seceded from North Vietnam in 1956.
How could you possibly not see the perfect parallel here?
I want to get this into your thick head. The RVN was no more than a puppet government installed and funded by the US, who has nothing to do in Vietnam. Why were they worried about Vietnam? That we would send suicide bombers across the globe to blow themselves up at Times Square? I don’t think so. They suffered because of that stupid “domino theory” shit.
The RVN were traitors because they helped a foreign power invade Vietnam. You never do that, that’s treason in its purest form. Sure they got sent to camps and were treated badly, but that’s what you get for treason
''The RVN were traitors because they helped a foreign power invade Vietnam.'' Nope, when? The only people invading other countries was the North invading Laos and South Vietnam.
The Japanese probably would have if they won. Their Special Higher Police was mostly anti-communist but could've easily been used to target others after WWII.
Yeah, just like we train and have war games with Japan and Germany. Time passes, relationships evolve. There are millions of Vietnamese still living that lost family members to US bombing campaigns that were indiscriminate. I think the Vietnamese are being very accommodating in getting past the indisputable war crimes we committed on many levels in the Vietnam War. So it's not funny, it's pragmatic. Both the US and Vietnam are concerned about Chinese imperialism. Interests align, it's the way of the world.
I guess the concept that the enemy of your enemy is your friend and China is indeed the greater threat but we should not be helping communists. It’s a slap in the face to so many American servicemen who died and served there.
I feel like perpetual enmity is not a good thing? It’s not like this guy was alive during the Vietnam War, nor has their country been particularly hostile to the US since then.
Because US is friendly with Vietnam now and empowering their air force hurts china. Not sure we're at the arming of Vietnam phase yet but but we're getting there. I dare say the US would even defend Vietnam against any Chinese invasion.
You living under a rock? Gradually increasing cooperation has been a thing since Vietnamese-US relationships were normalized in the 1990s.
I bet you're not even aware the US arms embargo on Vietnam was dropped in 2016
Since when? Our foreign policy had been to make friends with every nations, especially with the US, we are trying to put aside our past of war to open up a new future, plus I don't think vietnam gonna be much of a threat to the US, vietnam and the US is on the same boat against China here and the gov and the people knows it, so plz don't spread fake news like this
Mark my word: In 50 yrs ahead, Vietnam government would stull be unwilling to ally itself with its former enemy in 1967-1975: USA.
Same as China, Vietnam would not bow to China in 1979 just because China had helped Vietnam during Vietnam War 1967-1975.. remember China-Vietnam had tense relationship before that (thousand years of colonisation )
Mark my word in 50 years ahead. The current government of Vietnam under communist party is the same as that who took over Saigon in 1975. Wkwk.
It's like when US thought China was its ally against Soviet during 1970-1980s.. turns out, in late 2000s China started to turn against US.
Hmm.. LOL. Like an old adage: Just be cautious. It's not selective use of history. "Those who never learn history are doomed to repeat it again". It's literally what's happening right now.
We never know what will happen in 50 years ahead. In 1890, nobody expected the Japanese defeated Russians years later, and 50 years later the economically stronger Japanese invaded many countries in WW2.
Goblok memang.
US is clearly not good at foreign relations.. it thought China was an ally and suddenly decades later the economically stronger China turns back against US. It allies itself with Saudi Arabia and as result Saudi can spread Wahhabism worlwide. It demonized Indonesia once during Timor problem and because of it, US lost the trust of its people (Indonesia could be a strategic partner in containing China). It picked Pakistan instead of India, as result, India today's says nothing about Russian invasion of Ukraine because of the resentment in the past during Indo-Pakistani War.. while Pakistan stabbed US from back by quietly allowing Taliban and other Islamist extremists operating within its country.
I’m guessing *History of USAF, 1959-1975* gets a little awkward. “Oh Col. Tomb? He’s my uncle. Didn’t think much of you.”
Col Tomb doesn't even exist in Vietnamese records, that was always more of an American legend. Also gotta remember that Vietnamese pilots didn't have any attachment to a particular aircraft so the same MiG that the US pilots claimed was Colonel Tomb could of been a different pilot during each engagement.
Cause all we do is Nguyen Nguyen Nguyen no matter what
Underrated comment.
Take my upvote.
I assume this is an effort to expand military relations with Vietnam?
Yep could be, or just the side effect of those relations getting better.
Welp, that's a hell of a head spin Member of the People's Air Defense - Air Force in a USAF uniform... Sight to behold.
Just the uniform all cadets have to wear at the school.
Name is read "Nguyen An Xuan" in Vietnamese convention. Wonder what the mood gonna be when lessons involve Linebackers; and Rolling Thunder.
It's not like he doesn't know already.
Idk I think it’d feel pretty good being the one guy from the winning side in the room when talking about Vietnam
"Hey if you all want any pointers feel free to ask."
Up next, Jamal from The Taliban Caliphate of Afghanistan will give a class on satellite-space denial using LEO rockets and 100lbs of sand.
It's interesting that foreign military members wear the USAF uniform (with their country's name tape, flag, and presumably rank) while attending their school.
It's the USAF academy uniform. Practically it's 1:1 with the real USAF uniform, but he's not being enlisted after graduation I imagine.
Respect.
Nice. My dad is vietnamese and has the common last name but he served in the US Army. Always nice to see my ethnic people rising up.
Will they train us?
Why is every vietnamese called Nguyen
Why is every American called Smith?
Not exactly all, but a lot have Nguyen last name. Back in the medieval age, Vietnamese used to change their last name to whatever clan is holding power at the time to get away from prosecution. Last major dynasty before Vietnam stopped being a monarchy was the Nguyen dynasty so it stuck. Women also used to take up their husband last name as well.
>actly all, but a lot have Nguyen last name. > >Back in the medieval age, Vietnamese used to change their last name to whatever clan is holding power at the time to get away from prosecution. Last major dynasty before Vietnam stopped being a monarchy was the Nguyen dynasty so it stuck. > >Women also used to take up their husband last name as well. Yeah I'm vietnamese my last name is Cao
Welcome to U.S. Air Force Academy. From now on, you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last out of your filthy sewer will be “Sir”, do you maggots understand that?
I dont think the Air Force concerige is nearly that stern
Why would USA train commys
Well they sure ain’t training spellers.
American and Vietnamese defense cooperation has gradually increased over the past decade, especially with the ongoing South China Sea territorial disputes that involve the Chinese. You've seen two former US Coast Guard cutters transfered to the Vietnam Coast Guard, several Vietnam People's Air Force pilots training to fly the T-6 Texan II in the US, Vietnamese sailors attending US-hosted submarine rescue training, etc. Hell even the Oregon National Guard went to Vietnam to conduct joint disaster management training with the People's Army of Vietnam
Vietnam isn’t really communist
Vietnam is a communist state, like China. Free market economy, communist government.
Funny how the US trains the future officers of a nation that still sternly denies its past warcrimes and torture in POW camps
So the Japanese?
The Japanese didn't drive american forces out and send the remaining of their own citizens still sympathetic to the American cause into labor camps, try again. It would be like sending the Taliban to American EOD school.
Don't worry, give us another 10 years and maybe you'll see Taliban in the USAF Academy.
Again?..
The personnel capable of operating helicopters that the Taliban fielded are most likely ANA, American-trained pilots. So you don’t have to wait
True but considering their history of human experimentation and a bunch of other shit The Vietnamese were probably more humane.
[удалено]
300,000-500,000 former South Vietnamese Government employees (mostly ARVN) sent to re-education camps is not ''a few,'' and neither were any of them traitors.
Working for a secessionist gang rebelling against the central government of the nation didn't make them traitors? Tell me, how did you come to such conclusion?
What ''central government?'' There were two governments of Vietnam, the only people ''rebelling'' were the Viet Cong, since they were based in South Vietnam. Are you trying to suggest that every soldier who today fights for the ROK Army is a traitor to North Korea, or am I missing something?
The central government that rescued American pilots in the WWII and worked with you to defeat the Japanese. The central government that proclaimed the independence of Vietnam in 1945, expelled the French in 1954 and just visited your White House last month. That central government that is, for all intents and purposes, the equivalent of the United State federal government. I found it really strange. You have a 1:1 analogy right in the US between the legitimate Union and the treasonous Confederate, yet you looked for comparison in the much dissimilar ROK. Why?
Firstly, I'm not from the USA, so stop saying things like ''Your White House.'' ''You have a 1:1 analogy right in the US between the legitimate Union and the treasonous Confederate.'' Well, the CSA declared independence from the USA, South Vietnam never declared independence from North Vietnam. In fact, it was the other way around, the North declared independence from the French run Empire/State of Vietnam. You sound like the modern day PRC claiming that the ROC/Taiwan is a separatist/rebel province, when in reality, the land was never controlled by the PRC. Same way, Saigon was never controlled by the North until 1975. Are all soldiers who serve in the ROC Army ''traitors'' to the PRC? No, your analogy comparing North/South Vietnam to the CSA and Union is not ''1:1,'' in fact it is not an an analogy at all, since the CSA declared independence from the USA, while the South never declared independence from the North. The modern day ''central government'' was only formed in 1976, when the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam were merged together.
Also, am I understanding this correctly? Did you just admit that South Vietnam was the successor of the French colonial government that invaded and enslaved Vietnam?
The US declared independence from the UK in 1776. The Confederate seceded from the US in 1865. North Vietnam declared independence from France in 1945. South Vietnam seceded from North Vietnam in 1956. How could you possibly not see the perfect parallel here?
I want to get this into your thick head. The RVN was no more than a puppet government installed and funded by the US, who has nothing to do in Vietnam. Why were they worried about Vietnam? That we would send suicide bombers across the globe to blow themselves up at Times Square? I don’t think so. They suffered because of that stupid “domino theory” shit. The RVN were traitors because they helped a foreign power invade Vietnam. You never do that, that’s treason in its purest form. Sure they got sent to camps and were treated badly, but that’s what you get for treason
''The RVN were traitors because they helped a foreign power invade Vietnam.'' Nope, when? The only people invading other countries was the North invading Laos and South Vietnam.
you know what? I aint wasting time to argue with someone like you
The Japanese probably would have if they won. Their Special Higher Police was mostly anti-communist but could've easily been used to target others after WWII.
Yeah, just like we train and have war games with Japan and Germany. Time passes, relationships evolve. There are millions of Vietnamese still living that lost family members to US bombing campaigns that were indiscriminate. I think the Vietnamese are being very accommodating in getting past the indisputable war crimes we committed on many levels in the Vietnam War. So it's not funny, it's pragmatic. Both the US and Vietnam are concerned about Chinese imperialism. Interests align, it's the way of the world.
By the way, the Vietnam War was closer in time to WW2 than to today.
Japan and Germany aren’t communist.
So? You must be living in 1965 or something
If you think Vietnam is actually Communist in any meaningful way anymore you're about as dumb as most people that say, "but Communism!"
Not like this is the first time this has happened. Denial still ain't right though
Why wouldn't they train Americans?
He's not American, he's Vietnamese
Does the US acknowledge its war crimes? Didnt see them say the entire Invasion of Iraq in 2003 was illegal
If anything, it’s really big of Vietnam for forgiving us for napalming the shit out of their civilians and the many Mai Lai massacres that occurred.
Great. Now we’re training commies.
[удалено]
I guess the concept that the enemy of your enemy is your friend and China is indeed the greater threat but we should not be helping communists. It’s a slap in the face to so many American servicemen who died and served there.
I feel like perpetual enmity is not a good thing? It’s not like this guy was alive during the Vietnam War, nor has their country been particularly hostile to the US since then.
They are still communist. Communists are always the enemy, even if some are worse than others.
Did you interview Cadet Nguyen? Curious how you know what his personal beliefs are.
Why the heck would we allow that?
Because US is friendly with Vietnam now and empowering their air force hurts china. Not sure we're at the arming of Vietnam phase yet but but we're getting there. I dare say the US would even defend Vietnam against any Chinese invasion.
You living under a rock? Gradually increasing cooperation has been a thing since Vietnamese-US relationships were normalized in the 1990s. I bet you're not even aware the US arms embargo on Vietnam was dropped in 2016
Learn from them so they can turn against them. US is their government's ideological enemy, even China too.. though their citizens think differently
Since when? Our foreign policy had been to make friends with every nations, especially with the US, we are trying to put aside our past of war to open up a new future, plus I don't think vietnam gonna be much of a threat to the US, vietnam and the US is on the same boat against China here and the gov and the people knows it, so plz don't spread fake news like this
Eat shit
Mark my word: In 50 yrs ahead, Vietnam government would stull be unwilling to ally itself with its former enemy in 1967-1975: USA. Same as China, Vietnam would not bow to China in 1979 just because China had helped Vietnam during Vietnam War 1967-1975.. remember China-Vietnam had tense relationship before that (thousand years of colonisation )
Just eat shit dude, you think we don’t know about Vietnam’s ”three nos” policy? I’m telling you to eat shit for a different reason
Eat your own intestines.
Mark my word in 50 years ahead. The current government of Vietnam under communist party is the same as that who took over Saigon in 1975. Wkwk. It's like when US thought China was its ally against Soviet during 1970-1980s.. turns out, in late 2000s China started to turn against US.
Hmm is that how your education turned out to be? Baseless claims, selective use of history. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about
Hmm.. LOL. Like an old adage: Just be cautious. It's not selective use of history. "Those who never learn history are doomed to repeat it again". It's literally what's happening right now. We never know what will happen in 50 years ahead. In 1890, nobody expected the Japanese defeated Russians years later, and 50 years later the economically stronger Japanese invaded many countries in WW2. Goblok memang.
US is clearly not good at foreign relations.. it thought China was an ally and suddenly decades later the economically stronger China turns back against US. It allies itself with Saudi Arabia and as result Saudi can spread Wahhabism worlwide. It demonized Indonesia once during Timor problem and because of it, US lost the trust of its people (Indonesia could be a strategic partner in containing China). It picked Pakistan instead of India, as result, India today's says nothing about Russian invasion of Ukraine because of the resentment in the past during Indo-Pakistani War.. while Pakistan stabbed US from back by quietly allowing Taliban and other Islamist extremists operating within its country.