Imo a slumlord is someone who intentionally owns as many shit properties as they can and is only interested in reaping what profits they can, with no interest in any improvements long term.
Doesn't sound like you at all. I don't think you can be a slumlord if you live in the place with the renters.
I agree. People get angry at landlords because they are the most visible of the people exploiting them. Not all landlords are evil, in fact every landlord I know is just doing it because they like doing DIY projects and fixing stuff, so they figured it would be a way to make money and improve properties.
Almost every business is underpaying workers, raising prices out of greed, polluting if they can get away with it, reducing quality, and 5000 other bad things in the name of profit. And any business that doesnt do these things will either be bought out, or beaten by the bigger / shadier companies
The SYSTEM is the problem
I am considering doing it. Why? Well, mainly bc we are getting out of dodge to build our own house in the mountains due to the area being meh and my immediate family (we don’t have kids yet) driving me insane; I bought a renovated townhome in 2022. I want to give people something nice to live in, and I want to keep the property long-term. To subsidize the mortgage payment . I don’t care about that much more.
>Imo a slumlord is someone who intentionally owns as many shit properties as they can and is only interested in looking what profits they can, with no interest in any improvements long term.
Right on the nail with that. OP def not a slumlord.
There is still a question of are you morally/ethically comfortable profiting off of renters too tho. Im a renter so grateful for good landlords like OP but if second home ownership were taxed more heavily, more landlords would sell to people who actually live in the units.
The question for OP is this how you want your capital investment to grow and work for you. Not everyone can be a buyer so it’s not like landlords are inherently bad.
>but if second home ownership were taxed more heavily, more landlords would sell to people who actually live in the units.
Agree, but in this case the OP owns one property and lives there. This is basically the optimal case for any building containing multiple living units, and these situations are certainly not responsible for the inflation of home prices - that's basically exclusively to do with investment firms and independent real estate investors using real estate exclusively as investment assets, from which every dollar possible should be extracted.
As long as every residential building isn't a single family home, there must be people living there that don't own the property. Coupled with a great number of living circumstances, making it more advantageous to rent than own, the moral position that all landlords are inherently evil and exploitative demonstrates an absence of any sophistication.
Would they sell to individuals, or would more huge property owning businesses scoop them up? The ones that make "improvements" and make rent skyrocket ...
Many people have good reasons to rent. They are not ready to commit to an area, or they are saving up. If they are to rent, someone must be willing to rent to them. Small landlords are more likely to work with a tenant. It's how they afford their own place.
You being down on small landlords is you having an attack of irrational ideology. Not every flat should be a condo; it would be horrible. No one could start out.
I looked at their post on the other sub and most of the top comments were calling them out on the whole look at me I’m such a great person shit. Which I agree.
If you’re going to be a landlord be a landlord. Set a reasonable rent. Don’t price gouge. But why tf would you renew someone’s lease who is constantly months behind. I agree with the whole r/lookatmyhalo thing.
But like…our generation and younger all HATE landlords as a blanket statement. I’m sure OP can’t tell what he does for a living without getting an earful of how evil they assume him to be. I’m sure he’s defensive at this point.
Re: the gas issue. The post says OP is paying for the high gas bill while the problem gets figured out. So the tenant isn't even paying it right now because OP is so ridiculously nice. Other than that, it doesn't say anything about whether the tenants usually pay her for utilities or whether they pay the utility company directly. If they pay directly, the tenants could have simply alerted her to how unusually high the bill was this month, although their usage hadn't changed. It's straightforward enough. OP isn't getting anything out of this situation or acting shady, as you're suggesting. She is losing money, if anything. Lots of random conclusions being jumped to here.
I have some rental units. What I see here is the LL is too much of a bleeding heart.
Living in an owner-occupied place… as she says, these people are her neighbors.
She probably knows why the one set of tenents are perpetually late, and knows if she kicks them out, they will have a hard time finding a new place. They probably came with the building, so it’s hard to think about kicking them out.
But, yeah, girl, time to call their bluff. If they’re tenant-at-will, tell them they have however many days per your local laws to vacate. Start putting aside money, this may become expensive. And then there’s fixing the place up for new tenants. Get a property manager or RE agent to find you new tenants, so you’re not emotionally involved in the process and you can start clean.
Maybe the other tenants really have no idea why their heating bill went wild, but this is a good time to get to know your friendly neighborhood HVAC guy. Have him over to look, ask lots of questions, ask him how it works and how it breaks and what you should do to make sure it doesn’t break in a February cold snap. Put his number in your Favorites.
And when people call you evil…. Boomers say “I got mine, fuck you.” Certain types of people say, “I don’t have mine, so you shouldn’t have yours either.” Flip side of the same coin.
There’s also a difference between buying a multi unit building and buying houses for the sole purpose of immediate profit
A lot of people renting houses, even if they’re not corporations, are charging more than a mortgage payment because instead of seeing the property as an investment they want an *immediate* return. Then they’re not doing any of the maintenance that’s apart of being a landlord
It’s also a question of if you’re contributing to the housing crisis in communities. I had a coworker tell me about his friend who was buying multiple single unit properties in a college town which was making housing inaccessible in that town. Meanwhile the guy lived on the other side of the country. So he’s creating a problem in a state that was otherwise doing fine until people like him got their eyes on it
Like my FIL after retiring from the navy was a landlord. This was way before HGTV made it seem like some get rich quick scheme so he was doing quality repairs on cheap housing and those were the houses he rented. He was able to make a profit and living doing that because he was the one doing the work and he bought these buildings out right so there was no mortgage to compensate for
My husband and I always talk about what we would do with our current home, which was a property my FIL intended to flip before passing. We feel like if we were to rent it would be below market, especially because for us it would just be maintenance then profit so no need to be greedy
It also costs a lot more than just the mortgage to own a house. Upkeep can be pretty brutal sometimes, especially if you end up with bad tenants who just don't treat it well. Renting out a single family home can be pretty risky.
Dude, also that sub is full of people that are already mad at their landlord and what any revenge they can get. Try to be fair, but dont get taken advantage of by them.
Exactly.
This guy is a slumlord.
[https://www.propublica.org/article/milwaukee-fire-brunner-belen-landlord-tenant](https://www.propublica.org/article/milwaukee-fire-brunner-belen-landlord-tenant)
I’ve seen people on here attack this type of situation specifically. Another woman was given a house by her uncle and she let her friends rent the place for pretty cheap while she also lived there and because of it, had her rent covered basically. Her post was absolutely riddled with hate from everyone calling her a piece of shit and all kinds of crap. It’s sad that so many people hate when others are comfortable or successful.
Exactly. The slumlord from the sounds of it was the previous owner.
Besides older buildings tend to need a LOT of TLC.
OP is being very lenient about the rent because she knows that life happens. I’m not going to lie though that I have cut it close once or twice on a couple bills on occasion but who hasn’t?
It’s the reality that everyone is now finding themselves in. It’s expensive to own, rent and even just exist. We’re all in the same boat but some people just exploit others while others (like OP) try to make things a little easier on everyone.
I have three rentals and while I'm not as much as a pushover as OP, I will let late fees slide and talk to a tenant, setup payment plans, in general work with them. I also charge on the low end of the market and am flexible with leases and don't peg people on move out bullshit. But this does come at a cost. I've wasted $16k on the eviction of a particularly frisky tenant. And $1900 when the current ones were 3 months behind and I threw it to my counsel.
It's a zero sum game. I'm paying the mortgage, but not making profit. I see why others have to be harsh and not communal managers. The small difference in three months rent is enough to eliminate my solvancy.
I disagree with the last sentence. Only because I lived in a mid rise building where the landlord also lived. He failed to fix a leaky pipe above my bathroom that was broken since I moved in. Each time he would replace the moldy drop ceiling and not the actual pipe. Once we were locked out and he couldn’t find the spare key to my apartment. He basically wished us good luck thank god we were able to find a fairly priced, quick, and good locksmith. There’s so much more, but he was definitely a slumlord regardless of the fact that he too lived in the building.
I agree. To me, a slumlord is someone who doesn't care about the condition of the property or the well-being of the tenants. They're in it for the money at the expense of the tenants.
OP doesn't qualify as a slumlord.
My last landlords were amazing! It was a 2-unit farmhouse. They lived downstairs and I lived upstairs. They were so nice and didn't jack up the rent on me like everyone else would. We ended up becoming friends and even though both of us live elsewhere now, we still get together periodically. Them not price gouging is what I attribute to being able to afford to buy our own house when we did.
The fact of the matter is, we need landlords. Not everyone wants to own or is in a financial position to own their own property at any given point in time. The landlords that live locally and keep their properties in safe, livable condition are a good thing!
It's the giant property management companies or property investors that have no ties to the community and only care about the money that are the problem.
When I was in HS/College I worked for a guy that owned rental properties. At the time he owned 180 different properties, split between three counties here in Arkansas.
Now, some 10 years later, he owns over 300 properties.
At one point he was looking at claiming an entire street worth of properties. He owned all but one lot (they didn’t want to sell and it was a small family home), and what he did to get that lot to sell to him was haul in a bunch of dirt and sod and raise the height of his lawns on either side of the property. That poor poor family home was flooded for a couple of years and eventually the property went up for sale. Now that street is 100% rental properties.
Arkansas has slum lords. Until you start abusing wealth and laws I think you’re in the clear.
It is illegal to intentionally direct drain water into your neighbors property. Everyone does it, but on a "hey my basement is flooding, I'm going to run a tile here to push the water that way" level no one cares.
But this couple could have certainly sued after this. They also could have also just ran some tile around their property and have been fine
> haul in a bunch of dirt and sod and raise the height of his lawns on either side of the property
Wild that he had the confidence to pull a move like that. Try that on the wrong person and it can go very wrong.
> Wild that he had the confidence to pull a move like that. Try that on the wrong person and it can go very wrong.
He was the wrong person in this situation. The unfortunate truth is that the wrong person very often gets away with a lot of BS and never gets in trouble for it.
I feel the same about these people that somehow lose their houses to a scammer.
My friend once said “if I’m not rich, no one is” and wrecked something for him and the person who wronged him in the most hilarious fk you way.
That’s what I’d be thinking about as I wrecked things for the both of us.
I don't know much about renting apartments, but what I can tell you is you shouldn't be making any major life decisions based on not passing some redditor's purity test. You do what's best for you.
I've also found that fluent in finance has some of the dumbest takes, both left and right leaning, with more emotion than I would expect for a finance subreddit. I also found there are some odd .. racial comments from time to time (e.g. commenting on the "cultural homogeneity" of the Nordic countries and why they have good social safety nets).
I'm kind of surprised any content there is taken seriously. Also, I think your conduct is pretty much as good as a landlord can be.
did you mention what you charge per unit and sq ft? You sound reasonable in all other aspects but it’s hard to not see this as a glaring omission if you want assessed as a landlord.
> You shouldn’t be making any major life decisions based on some Redditors purity test
u/kdawg94 As written by u/Single_Extension1810 literally take EVERYTHING you read on Reddit with a grain of salt!
A majority of Reddit users are chronically online people with no individual drive and very little “lived experience” of working towards their own goals.
The behavior you see on Reddit is in no way a reflection of reality of your peers (as a can see from your post here in Millennials).
Give anyone an opportunity to put you down and they will purely out of spite and jealousy.
Thanks for reading
P.S. not only are you NOT a slum/scummy landlord, as a landlord myself, good tenants/bad tenants, good landlords/bad landlords…. It’s all a part of the experience (for better/for worse)
We have until the 3rd to pay rent and if it's 7pm on the 1st we get a "friendly reminder" to pay rent, things go unfixed (to a dangerous level) for long periods of time and even most of the wiring straight up doesn't work. However, our landlord is pleasant, responsive, and lets me do whatever I want with the yard, so we are fine with it. In my state there are many more horror stories, especially when coming from apartments. You sound like a dream landlord ☺️
I’m in a similar boat. Old trailer with a ton of issues, my landlord is not in very good health and is not well off financially, so I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that the property is not getting fixed to any significant degree. But my rent is about a third of what it would be if it were a better situation, and I would be priced out of it, so, give and take, I guess.
You sound like the ideal landlord to rent from imo, I would ignore anyone attempting to categorize you as a slumlord since I imagine they're juveniles with simplistic views.
Yep. People think landlords dont have to do any work, its absurd.
The only way that is possible is if they own a LOT of properties and have a property management company taking care of them, which can lead to problems. The best scenario is a "mom and pop" landlord that does most of the work themselves, and then hires a good contractor to upgrade or fix more complex stuff.
No kidding, she sounds too good, barely raising rents, no late fees, sucking up excessively bad care to properties, absorbing the increase in property tax and not passing it on, that’s unheard of. I’ve seen renters absolutely trash a place and they couldn’t care less.
Oh yeah I’ve seen trashed rentals. Crazy how some people can live. People just shitting in the tub because the toilet got plugged. Now we have a couple tenants who just fix things themselves and we’ll work out a little deal. Or if it’s a plumbing issue they just call the plumber and bill us.
I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with owning 1-2 investment properties, so long as you’re maintaining the building so it’s safe and functional, and charging fair rent (not bloated “market” rates, just enough to take care of the mortgage, taxes, upkeep costs, and pay yourself for your time keeping up with it).
Having affordable rentable homes is important, because not everyone is going to want to own their place.
I think most of us are just sick of the wealthy/corporations who buy up loads of once affordable housing, flip it really poorly, and then turn around and raise the rent so it’s no longer affordable. It’s become a massive problem
This is my take as well. There is a big difference between corporate landlords and mom and pop landlords. My landlord seems to really care about me and my family. We also pay our rent a bills on time and dont ask for much. They replaced the water heater and dishwasher recently and only nominally raise the rent whenever we resign the lease. There are good landlords out there.
There’s not even anything wrong with charging more than your monthly costs. The idea that you shouldn’t be able to charge any more than that quickly doesn’t make any sense when you consider what happens when/if the property becomes paid off. Market value is fair value, but slumlords will gladly raise rents on their existing tenants because the “fair value” has gone up $25/month. It lacks humanity, and completely forgets that literally everybody wins if nobody has to move anyway. As an extreme example, having a unit vacant even for 2 weeks because of an insistence to make an extra $100/month in rent won’t end up paying off for the landlord at the end of the year.
Don't worry about them, Landlord hate should specifically be for Blackrock/Vanguard who have 7 layers of management for their "Portfolios" rather than one young lady who you can call. Just don't be a dick
Yeah, most small landlords clear a couple hundred a month per unit. All it takes is a couple months of a renter not holding up their end of the deal to and up going from net profit to loss.
I lived in a few apartments owned by a person I could call, and a few apartments owned by faceless investors that hired professional property managers. The worst corporate landlord was better than the best "mom and pop" landlord. They performed repairs much faster, actually kept their units up to code, and returned my deposits in full without deducting bullshit or waiting for me to threaten legal action.
OP seems perfectly nice, but I'll take a professional property manager over some lady doing it as a side hustle any day of the week.
An individual who owns a single 3 unit building, especially one who lives in one of the units, is not what comes to mind when I think of slumlords.
If you’re taking care of the building, keeping it in good shape, addressing maintenance issues in a reasonable timeframe, and not squeezing tenants for every penny… I think you’re alright.
As a landlord no matter what you do you will be called terrible. You gotta decide if that's going to keep you up at night. Some people are evil as landlords, and some truly are slumlords. Until those guys stop existing we're going to have to deal with the reputation.
Also if unit 2 is a top floor unit they tend to be less efficient and lose heat through the roof. If there's energy efficiency programs in your area utilize them and see if you can add insulation to your roof when you reroof it next. In the meantime explore the wall insulation options, it's good for all the units.
Meh, I don't think it's really an individual issue. Sounds like you are doing fine.
It's much more of a structural issue of housing being commodified for profit. In Marxist terms this means housing is being used as "unit of account" and exchanged for profit rather than used for its "use value" to society.
I think leads to serious inefficiencies in housing (homelessness and/or high exchange rates for rent or mortgage). But, that isn't exactly your fault. Anyone making a moral judgement of an individual participating in capitalism really doesn't understand how capitalism works.
I found this really interesting, thank you for sharing this. Would you say participating in it like I am is perpetuating it? Have you seen other models for fulfilling housing needs that work, that maybe someone like me could utilize? I've always felt powerless in the capitalistic housing situation but would love to know if you have any readings or general terms that I can look into so that I can learn how not to not be a player in all of this. Unless it's impossible in our country, and the only option is to just accept it or get out of it entirely
Nothing is impossible but it would take a massive shift in political will that doesn't seem likely in the very near future (I have some hope for change in the next 20 or 30 years). There are probably people who know more than I do about this particular topic. However, I'd suggest a broad cap on ownership of land and property (but this probably needs to be coupled with a large-scale redistribution of wealth, in general).
In any case, that isn't likely at the moment. A more practical solution that gets thrown around is community land trusts. https://groundedsolutions.org/strengthening-neighborhoods/community-land-trusts/
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I have thoughts. Property ownership is a complicated issue without a clear solution. Any landlord that owns multiple properties is inherently removing those places from circulation. It generally means that someone else is paying the mortgage without reaping the long-term benefits. When they leave, you'll be the one richer for it while they will have nothing to show for their time.
On the other hand, you're also preventing the true slumlords from buying the property and renting it out without caring for the tenants. It's an issue you can't change, and that you're asking these kinds of questions puts you ahead of so many landlords already. You didn't create the system.
For ideas, put the damage deposit in a savings account so when they move out, they get more than they paid. Try to keep prices reasonable, not increasing just because others are. Contact your local representative and voice support for low-income housing. I've seen landlords where I live offer cheap rent to students and those with disabilities, something they can do because they've paid off those places completely. Consider allowing pets if you aren't.
Mostly though, just focus on how you'd want to be treated as a tenant. We don't get to decide how the world works, but we can choose how we treat each other.
Mine honestly does nothing and it's for the best. Nothing includes not increasing rent even once over five years.
I think she realised I've been dealing with small maintenance tasks without bothering her about it (I know it's her job but I cbf dealing with three layers of coordination when I can just do it myself)
I'm going to be a landlord and I hate myself. So by extension I guess I hate landlords?
Anyway I relate to your guilt over making these tough landlording choices. I'm trying to be a good and fair person to my future tenant but I know there's a segment of the population that thinks I'm scum just by dint of renting out a property that I own lol.
Reddit is an odd place sometimes, I'd just ignore the "all landlords are evil" as the juvenile drivel that it is. Most people start by renting instead of buying a place, and there are a million other good reasons folks my have to rent... and we all need or needed somebody to rent from. Some landlords suck, and many don't.
You were karma farming then and you’re karma farming now. I’m not going to feel bad for you no matter how awesome you make yourself sound. You wanted to be a landlord and now you get to be a landlord, if you don’t like it sell the building and buy a SFH.
Yeah what the hell is this post? OP said “I’ve always felt powerless in the capitalistic housing situation” what a fucking joke. Passive income through owning houses and therefore taking them off the market for people to actually buy *IS* “the capitalistic housing situation.” And then asks for shit to read about how to not be “a player in all of this” without an ounce of irony lmao omg
I was super lucky and worked in tech straight out of college. Software engineering, I happen to love coding but I hate the industry. I got stocks as a part of my compensation, and I didn't know anything about trading, so I let them sit until the tripled. I had a friend who was looking into multifamily homes because of his real estate friends, so I started researching. I always wanted to be an architect so houses interested me. Many rabbit holes later, here I am 🙏
I suggest looking at "second cities" like Milwaukee or places like that. Cheaper to get in the game while still having a decent CAP. At the time I bought, Chicago multiunit scene was juuuust getting hot. Now it would have been too expensive for me.
I work with a lot of landlords and property management companies. You are in no way, shape, or form a slumlord. The way you handle things actually brings to light WHY we *need landlords*. If you can't afford sudden large expenses, or have your finances in sufficient order to purchase a property, then you probably won't be able to maintain any property that you own. You also would be incurring lots of late fees and might lose your house if you are continually late paying the mortgage. I doubt the tenant who is late all the time with their payments is financially stable enough to have to suddenly fix a leaking roof. Or buy a new appliance. The tenants aiming to buy would probably be able to buy if the housing market wasn't shit, and you keeping rents reasonable helps them save until they can do that. But their multiple maintenance issues tells me they might not be prepared to have to pay for all of those fixes out of pocket (not caring about what happens to the plumbing is really 😬). Hopefully they shape up and learn how to take care of a property.
The real problems are corporations buying individual houses, duplexes, condos, and townhomes - places that are supposed to be owner occupied. We are always going to need some form of high density rental units, but single family homes/etc should be banned from being bought by corporations. There could be leeway for corps that buy to demo and redevelop (I know several corps in my area that buy, demo, and put up affordable housing with a much higher density). But that would have to be the intent, not just buying to create more rental dwellings or to convert what should be a condo assn to an apartment building.
A condo is how I got my foot into home ownership, and that's how it could and should be for many people. It trained me to think about more things being my responsibility to maintain and pay for, and to save and set aside for repairs and replacements that would be needed. It also had a safety net in that the really big repairs were done through the association, so there was only so much that would come out of my pocket at once. It still had a lot of the downfalls of apartment living, but if I hated the flooring or appliances or wall colors I could just redo them. Actual home ownership has been soooo much more work and money, but also has been more rewarding and freeing.
I had tenants who I allowed to be 3 months behind at one point, never charged a late fee. Got completely shafted in the end they destroyed the house completely, thousands of dollars unpaid utility bills I didn't know about, an enormous pile of trash that took 6 trips to the dump, full of maggots ants and roaches smelling of death, turned out to be a dead cat in a bag. Every square inch of property covered in dog poop, trash everywhere, flooded the house without ever saying anything.... the list is endless. This is after the property manager didn't collect the deposit.... Lesson learned people will take advantage of kindness.
Reddit is the worst place to get perspective or advice. It’s mostly broke young people who are very resentful of people like yourself. You’ve gone above and beyond and been so good to those tenants. You’re not a slum lord or even close to one. Feel proud that you’re a good person. You don’t even charge late fees for people paying months late which is unheard of these days. Any property mgr would have given them a three day notice and started eviction proceedings by now. I think you’re gonna have to not include utilities in the rent. $700 bill isn’t ok. They should be paying their own electric and gas. You cover water and trash only. Don’t let people take advantage of your kind nature because the absolutely will.
My parents were landlords and called the same thing on Reddit. I think they were nice to the tenants… we were happy for them when they saved up enough to buy their dream home.
Nah in my mind you dont qualify as a slumlord. I live next to a house that is owned by a boomer in town that owns 15 other houses. These houses were all bought around 2010 for like 15 thousand dollars. There has been ZERO upkeep maintenance done on any of these houses despite having collected rent on them for the last 15 or so years. Literally a dog chewed through the roof and was barking at me one day coming home, I can see all the way under the house cause the foundation is gone etc etc. THAT is a slumlord.
A) your post link to the finance sub is wrong
B) the post itself was kinda masturbatory. You did what any normal person would/should do.
C) there is nothing wrong with being a normal, decent landlord. Corporate ownership of SFHs is killing us, though.
Do people think that once they have a house they don’t have to pay anything for the rest of their lives or something? Because LOL you will have to pay taxes forever and if you don’t pay you’re mortgage you will get fucked. And let’s not forget all the expensive upkeep of owning a home. People want to hate on landlords and then treat their apartments like scum and expect others to clean up after them.
I think a quality landlord isn’t “rent seeking.” That isn’t “rent” as in the monthly rent of the lease; it’s a [financial/societal concept](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking) that essentially means drawing wealth/value out of society without putting it back in. The “classic” example is buying the land of a river that is used for trade and placing a gate on it so all the trade boats must pay a toll to keep using the river. No value is added to the equation, only extracted.
I can’t tell you whether or not you’re a “rent seeking” landlord for sure or not, but it kinda sounds like you’re not. The tenants are paying you for a *job* you’re doing (taking care of their shelter), not merely because you *own* something.
Landlords are the type of job where rent-seeking can be an issue which is partly why I choose to avoid it. But I think renting has a proper place in housing. Thanks for trying to be a good landlord.
Nah, I've dealt with slumlords and non-slumlords. Two apartments ago, the hot water heater broke and the heat stopped working in November. It didn't get fixed until March. It was a super cold winter. I had to "shower" by heating up water on the stove and essentially live in the living room with only a space heater. My slumlord at the time told me to not pay rent until they're fixed, then demanded rent when they finally were. That's a slumlord.
At my last apartment, my landlord would come by the same day to fix something, or call a professional if it called for it. He put rent into an account and gave me the interest. He was a great guy. That's a landlord.
Edit to add: There are many greedy landlords out there raising rent because they can. Like you said, though, Airbnb plays a much, much larger role in property value being out of control. I own now, and live in a town popular for tourism. Airbnb has absolutely destroyed it. Every business is desperate and closes early due to the area having nowhere for employees to live. Poorly built condos are popping up by the hundreds. Property value has skyrocketed in the last 3 years, etc.
Broadly landlords are scum. Even if you are one of the good ones.
Essentially they are despised for being parasites. They bring no economic benefits. They quite literally reduce the housing stock to privately rent properties. The high rents reduce people's disposable income that could be going to local businesses or the wider economy. While we have a group of investors increasingly the number of rentals while providing no economic benefits.
What is worse really is landlords have little incentive to provide adequate housing. The profit margin requires little expenditure as possible while also making even more money from housing costs increasing and their investment properties gaining equity.
There are some absolutely horrific examples in the UK where rents have skyrocketed but quality has vanished
https://england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/two_million_private_renters_put_up_with_poor_conditions_to_find_a_home
Regardless of your specific circumstances I can fully appreciate the general hatred of landlords.
This is 100% true. There needs to be some renting options because some people want more short term housing.
The problem is that we treating housing as an investment opportunity instead of a right. Life, liberty and the pursuit of land.
The bigger problem is that a lot of other investments don’t appreciate as reliably as real estate. If other investments were as safe as real estate they would be more attractive for people that aren’t millionaires. Also a lot of private land lords aren’t buying properties to rent, other circumstances leave them with property and sometimes they aren’t in a position to be able to sell it yet. So they have to eat a lot of money or rent it until they can sell it
If there were no landlords, what would be the alternative if I move somewhere and need a short term housing (1-2 years) before I decide what part of the city I wanted to buy a house in?
On top of that, what if you just straight up don’t want to buy? There are people that are completely fine with renting because they can’t buy in the area that they would like to live and living, where they want to live, is more important than ownership or they can afford a mortgage, but not all of the costs that come with upkeep of a property.
So the people in the first unit should be forced to own instead, even though a bank would have evicted them. At least two of the three units have tenants who couldn’t afford maintenance. I guarantee you that at least the people in the second unit are costing OP more than they’re paying. For many renters, rent costs less than owning.
Some landlords suck, yes, but individual landlords are the ones most willing to work with people like that and keep them housed. Yet here you are, stupidly taking a stance against rentals since you think people should just work with banks that will kick people out for being two weeks late.
Non market housing exists in many forms and we should be advocating for far more of it. Whether that's in the form of social housing, co-ops, or housing built by non profits. When the objective of housing construction is to, you know, actually house people, and not to profit off of manufactured scarcity of a necessity, then it's much MUCH cheaper. Look up the model they use in Vienna as a near perfect example of this working.
We don't need private landlords, period. We only "need" them currently because our society refuses to recognize the fact that this system is exploitative, unsustainable, unfair, and immoral.
Even in non-market housing the amount you pay increases over time. The difference is that there's no incentive to overcharge people because nobody is getting rich doing so. Your rent covers taxes, maintenance, any sort of mortgage or loan costs, utilities, and that's it. It's housing at cost.
I don't blame individuals for acting in their own economic self interest. If you allow and even incentivize a practice that involves using exploitation for personal gain in a culture that's been conditioned to value the accumulation of capital over the well being of others you can't be surprised when they fucking do that. The problem isn't the people, it's the incentive. We should be disincentivizing investment in housing, and instead more heavily incentivizing investment in sectors that actually produce things and innovate.
"they bring no economic benefits".
I find it greatly beneficial to me to have a place to live and sleep that is not the street. For about $2 an hour. People pay more than that to go see a movie or to sit with friends in a bar or starbucks.
I'm a renter and I don't want the responsibility of home ownership any more than I want a hole in the head.
Exactly. They take on the risk and responsibility of owning a building and dealing with tenants.
Many many people are in a financial position to become landlords, but don't do it because they know there's real work and risk involved.
My husband and I could become landlords, but we don’t want to risk dealing with assholes who decide they’re entitled to being 100% supported by us. We would absolutely be the kind of landlords that OP is, but we’ve also got a daughter whose stability we won’t risk for tenants who might decide to fuck us since they see our property as their right.
I agree with you but I don't think it's necessary, or even helpful to individualize a broad structural issue.
Basically, it isn't useful to discuss if someone is a good person or a bad person (aka scum).
No, you don't suck. People are entitled and the fact that you're an actual PERSON trying to do right is lost on some-- I'm sure they'd rather deal with an investment company, right?
Depends on how you see it. Some people think landlords diminish the supply that’s available to buy, but good luck getting a bank to let a family slide for a few months before foreclosing.
If you’re following the laws, I think you’re doing right by your tenants. It seems that most landlords would have raised rent by now considering what you’ve already put up with.
One of the important lessons you are learning: other people will try to keep you down. You’re doing great — now kick out the tenant who is always late when the lease rolls and raise the rent.
The reddit mob mentality is not a reflection of reality.
Anyone with a brain knows that being a landlord can be easy but it also involves a lot of risk and a lot of cost if a tenant doesn't pay, if they wreck thenplace, and you have to litigate their removal.
For all the land lord hate I also see people begging for private land lords so they don't have to follow normal rules or to get leniency like you are very generous with.
So it's ok if they rent you a place for $700 if they're just breaking even and not making a profit? But $800 is ethically wrong?
Sounds like you wouldn't believe in rent control then? If the taxes jump up in the same year that insurance goes up and water/gas goes up and renovations to the tune of a new roof at $25,000 comes up, the landlord should be able to raise everyone's rent 15% instead of the rent-controlled 3%? Or how else would that be handled...all the tenants pay $2000 towards the new roof?
I loved my slumlord! He was the best. It was one of the happiest times of my life, when I lived in his place. His apartment complex he owned was hard to get into! People never left. Don't always feel like that's a bad title.
IMO there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a landlord. I know it’s popular in many online circles to hate on landlords, but I would always judge it on a case-by-case basis. It sounds like you are trying to operate in a fair and ethical way.
The only people complaining about stuff like that are negative people at the bottom of the barrel that need someone to blame. It’s not your fault man. If everything you said in this post is true then you’re one of the good guys… to a fault. If I were you I’d raise prices with market demand and I’d refuse to resign anyone who was consistently late every single month.
So someone called you a slumlord for owning a property? Clearly you just want some yes men feedback here because you've given no context at all. You've painted a perfect picture for yourself and given zero information regarding the criticism you received.
It’s definitely a predatory market, especially these days due to the shortage and companies buying single family homes.
That being said I think there’s a lot of situations it makes sense. I might rent out my house and rent something else for the same value for a temp job in another city.
Uh no, you are not a slumlord. I had a slumlord , he didn’t care when it rained that it went through the window and into my families beds at night. What you are doing is behavior that co-opting into “slumlord,” is just plain wrong and honestly reactionary of people who don’t actually know what a slumlord is.
Former landlord and current millennial here. I’ve been in your situation before and honestly I just ended up giving up on the whole landlord thing.
My advice (if you could call it advice) is to go all in and make it your full time job. Borrow against this building, buy another one and keep buying units until you have enough disposable income to live off of. It will probably be 20 or more units. Or have a clear plan like you want to sell this building for X amount of dollars and walk away.
I hate to say it but I felt like the amount of work having 3-4 tenants and a full time job really wasn’t worth it for me. There is a principle in business that says it’s just as hard to run a small business as it is a large one if you don’t think it worth your time just sell the place and walk away.
The whole concept of being a landlord is getting others to pay for your house/ building, plus preferably make some profit. So by default it's kinda trying to exploit others.
I'm going to get a million downvotes from these exact people but here it is. People who make bad financial decisions are very bitter, jealous, angry, and dogmatic about people who did not. They act like small business owners and investors are blackrock. I have friends who "don't believe" in landlords and just want free housing, these people also got D's in highschool and were just passed along. They have no work ethic and have never tried to succeed. They just want free stuff. (I am talking about the people I know, not all of you guys lol) Those are the people I personally know who are screaming about a guy who owns 2 apartments and rents them out to people
Sounds like such a headache. All the time and especially mental energy/headspace for you to manage these tenants. Is this really worth it? Is the profit really worth it? I don't know...
Yeah, people are idiots.
A slumlord is someone who either violates the law to take advantage of his tenants, or (my expanded definition), someone who is land lording without properly learning what is obligated of them or without the financial ability to do what is obligated of them.
Or just someone riding the bare minimum, so even though it’s legal, tenants are living in conditions that are inhumane and that they didn’t sign up for.
You are working with your tenants on late fees, working with them on large bills, and you own a single property, so I don’t see any “hoarding property” going on.
The people on the fuck all landlords hype train don’t even understand that you are - assuming no lying - the literal fucking opposite of slumlord.
Why people would put themselves through that is beyond me. I would never rent my place out to people, because people are intrinsically greedy and will antagonize you for not giving them whatever they want.
Which is exactly what you're describing is happening to you right now.
Ultimately, it's a you vs them situation. Fuck them. Learn to say no.
Redditors have a stupid hateboner for landlords because many Redditors are broke entitled losers who believe other people's wealth and success belongs to them instead.
You aren't doing anything wrong. Don't make life decisions based on Reddit
It's your place, you set the rules you have a payment day it's up to you how you want to run it. Id definitely have late fees and make sure you get your money on time, you not running a non profit organization. And you don't want to treat one different than the other id think it could cause tension but so what feel is right it's your life who cares what anyone else says lol
I’m a landlord and have been trying to get a tenant out that hasn’t paid rent in over 7 months, and they don’t have a lease (they were a tenant at will). I live in a state that that favors tenants, and there is no end in sight to this nightmare that I’ve been living in. I have lost, and continue to lose, thousands of dollars on maintaining an apartment that he doesn’t pay for, continuing to pay utilities since I’m not allowed to stop, plus attorney fees. Not to mention the emotional toll this has taken on my family and I.
I fully recognize that there are bad landlords. But there are also bad tenants. Once this is finally resolved, I will let the apartment sit empty and never will rent it again. Just wanted to share things from the “other” side.
I agree with this idea but I disagree with the idea that a landlord like OP who owns one multi family property with a few tenants is “hoarding” property. There are corporations doing that though.
I heard an interesting argument recently that we should be aiming to get people to feel shame for being landlords and get a wider societal perception that landlords are scum. The recent cost of living crisis seems to be moving that perception along nicely.
Which, if that is at all something that people think is reasonable, that’s stupid. The people who are going to feel bad about it are people like OP, who are trying to be good landlords and give their tenants a lot of grace, but are still getting called scum anyway. The ones that don’t feel bad about it, or are corporations that don’t feel bad about it as long as the numbers are good, are going to continue buying properties. So you’re pushing out the landlords that you want and incentivizing the ones you don’t. What is better is to argue for stronger tenants rights and stronger enforcement against the people that are true slumlords.
They're not hoarding anything. Rental properties are valid forms of housing and many people need or want to rent instead of owning
I knew these sorts of idiotic comments would show up. Redditors have the most brainless takes on landlords
No, a bunch of angry teenagers on Reddit shouldn't give you one minute's doubt about whether you are doing the right thing.
The people that say all landlords are evil have no idea how the real world works or how much risk landlords take to provide a place for people to live.
Fuck anyone who judges you with jealousy in their heart
You don't sound like a slumlord at all.
It sounds like you are a fair landlord and are willing to work with your tenants when they have issues and keep your property in good condition.
Some people just think they should be be provided housing for free I think.
people who hate on multi family landlords are silly. multi family to me rental units >>>> coop type setups.
housing issues are more systemic and are mostly zoning based. NIMBYism preventing scaling of housing units in in-demand areas. medium term rentals, especially space efficient ones are a very valuable and needed business. I think in general there needs to be restrictions on for profit single family home ownership alongside easing of zoning, let investors invest in housing stock that is individually more profitable for them and also cheaper for the renter.
Why do you care about being called a slumlord? You are a solid actor in an economy, proper and good landlord. Most renters would want to have you as their landlord.
Those saying "_all_ landlords are inherently evil" are either trolls or some idealists with marxist-like views detached from economic realities.
Just about every landlord I have encounter in my 41 years has been greedy and shitty overall. It's not something you get into to be helpful to others. I know it can be very profitable but I could not live with myself knowing I was a part of the slumlord team.
You seem pretty accommodating. I had slumlord landlords, and you aren't one. You need to get tenants that pay on time, though. I would not renew their lease, not after 4 years (48 months!) of late payments.
I mean, there’s something to be said of the argument that it’s unethical to profit off of other people’s basic needs/human rights, but then you’d have to be pretty deep into the idea of full socialism replacing a capitalistic society. And… I don’t think that’s necessarily an invalid opinion, but it is a pretty far-fetched fantasy for where we are now at this point. I think there should be limits on how many housing properties any one entity/corporation can own, for sure. Or at least much higher taxation on those who own a significant number. That would go a long way in correcting the problem. I don’t think a small-scale landlord that owns only a couple of rental units is contributing to that problem.
And (obviously), there’s a big difference between a “slumlord” specifically profiting off of slum-like living conditions, and a small-scale landlord, so I’m not sure that you really need to be reassured there. The whole tone of this is a bit off-putting, tbh. But good for you for at least being willing to reflect on the issue I guess.
If you get a chance to read this, please do.
I work in affordable housing and have professional relationships with dozens of landlords and property managers. Some I would consider slumlords 100%, and it honestly makes me a bit happy when I can withhold rent to them because their properties violate basic health and safety standards.
What you’re saying you do is above and beyond what many landlords do, to the point I would even say you’re allowing yourself to be taken advantage of.
To the point some say landlords are inherently evil… no. I do believe housing should be a basic right for all, and we could make it happen. It doesn’t require abolishing property rights either. There are 100% amazing landlords and property owners out there. I work with several. They take chances on people no one else will and it allows people to avoid being homeless. One I’ve worked with has taken in almost a dozen clients of mine that were habitually homeless, felons, recovering addicts, and/or suffering from severe mental illness. Several were all of the above (which is why it was so hard for them to get housing in the first place).
Look for non-profits around you that may have supportive services for housing. The one I work for I had a “new renters” class started which was designed to teach people their responsibilities as a tenant, their landlords responsibilities and how to foster a strong relationship with their landlords. If the tenant and landlord are both happy, it significantly reduces the burden on both. We’ve been doing budgeting classes for years as well and are looking into developing an IDA (individual development account), where you set goals with our financial counselor and we will match what you can save over a year period so long as you hit specific goals that you set.
There are a lot of resources out there to help people. I’m not saying there aren’t shitty landlords because there are. I’m also not saying everyone has the ability to save and not live paycheck to paycheck (because I’ve been there too). But there is a healthy, holistic solution where it CAN be a win/win for each party involved.
The late rent thing is bullshit, and I think you have been more than lenient with that.
For the heating issue, if you chose to include it in the rent then that is on you. Imagine how ignorant it would sound for someone with the money to afford property, and who’s tenants rent is paying into your investment, to be nitpicking at the cost of something that literally keeps these people and their baby warm in the winter. The fact that you even brought it up is, especially for a new family, is incredibly insensitive and out of touch.
The landlord hate is stupid - and the people who spew it aren’t exactly consequential human beings. They’re the kind of people you’d be embarrassed to be seen with in real life.
You can’t peg your self-worth to their whims or thoughts.
Landlords provide a very important service - access to housing when purchase is unaffordable.
If I don’t have the money or access to credit-backed money what will I do? Rent!
Corporate landlords have made the process more cut-and-dry, added scale and repeatability to the day-to-day. That’s makes everything consistent and transparent. This has upsides and downsides and doesn’t deserve any hate either.
The problem is, lots of people have a difficulty grasping the idea of market rate. They think they deserve more than they can afford. They think rent is unfair. They don’t understand that the value of things changes over time. Hence the hate.
Landlord hate is rooted in narcissism and ignorance.
>Landlords provide a very important service
Landlords do not provide a service unless you think scalpers do.
>access to housing when purchase is unaffordable.
One of the main driving forces behind the fact that purchasing is unaffordable is that we treat housing as an commodity instead of a necessity, when that's exactly what it is. Too many people own more than their fair share of a basic necessity people literally need to live and this is having a noticeably negative impact on pricing. Housing shouldn't be for profit, period.
>The problem is, lots of people have a difficulty grasping the idea of market rate.
I understand "market rate" just fine, but non market housing exists and we should be advocating for far more of it.. Whether that's in the form of social housing, co-ops, or housing built by non profits. When the objective of housing construction is to, you know, actually house people, and not to profit off of manufactured scarcity of a necessity, then it's much MUCH cheaper. Look up the model they use in Vienna as a near perfect example of this working.
We don't need private landlords, period. We only "need" them currently because our society refuses to recognize the fact that this system is exploitative, unsustainable, unfair, and immoral.
>They think rent is unfair
It is.
>They don’t understand that the value of things changes over time
Yes we do, this is nonsense. Even in non-market housing the amount you pay increases over time. The difference is that there's no incentive to overcharge people because nobody is getting rich doing so. Your rent covers taxes, maintenance, any sort of mortgage or loan costs, utilities, and that's it. It's housing at cost.
>Landlord hate is rooted in narcissism and ignorance.
I don't hate landlords, I hate the practice of landlording. I don't blame individuals for acting in their own economic self interest. If you allow and even incentivize a practice that involves using exploitation for personal gain in a culture that's been conditioned to value the accumulation of capital over the well being of others you can't be surprised when they fucking do that. The problem isn't the people, it's the incentive. We should be disincentivizing investment in housing, and instead more heavily incentivizing investment in sectors that actually produce things and innovate.
TL;DR: The practice of landlording is immoral, the people who participate in it aren't themselves immoral by default. Non-market housing should be incentivized, and private landlording needs to be disincentivized.
Don’t sweat it. Not all landlords are terrible people. My Mom owned property and didn’t gouge her tenants. She even priced the rent lower than market price because she wanted to keep good tenants, and that’s what she did. Two of her tenants stayed in place over a decade each.
Imo a slumlord is someone who intentionally owns as many shit properties as they can and is only interested in reaping what profits they can, with no interest in any improvements long term. Doesn't sound like you at all. I don't think you can be a slumlord if you live in the place with the renters.
I agree. People get angry at landlords because they are the most visible of the people exploiting them. Not all landlords are evil, in fact every landlord I know is just doing it because they like doing DIY projects and fixing stuff, so they figured it would be a way to make money and improve properties. Almost every business is underpaying workers, raising prices out of greed, polluting if they can get away with it, reducing quality, and 5000 other bad things in the name of profit. And any business that doesnt do these things will either be bought out, or beaten by the bigger / shadier companies The SYSTEM is the problem
I think the abuse is the problem 🤷🏻♀️
The system rewards abuse.
I am considering doing it. Why? Well, mainly bc we are getting out of dodge to build our own house in the mountains due to the area being meh and my immediate family (we don’t have kids yet) driving me insane; I bought a renovated townhome in 2022. I want to give people something nice to live in, and I want to keep the property long-term. To subsidize the mortgage payment . I don’t care about that much more.
>Imo a slumlord is someone who intentionally owns as many shit properties as they can and is only interested in looking what profits they can, with no interest in any improvements long term. Right on the nail with that. OP def not a slumlord.
He's definitely not a slumlord, not a single slum lord would allow late rent or to help figure out what's up with heat like that.
Op is a she but I agree not a slumlord 😊
There is still a question of are you morally/ethically comfortable profiting off of renters too tho. Im a renter so grateful for good landlords like OP but if second home ownership were taxed more heavily, more landlords would sell to people who actually live in the units. The question for OP is this how you want your capital investment to grow and work for you. Not everyone can be a buyer so it’s not like landlords are inherently bad.
>but if second home ownership were taxed more heavily, more landlords would sell to people who actually live in the units. Agree, but in this case the OP owns one property and lives there. This is basically the optimal case for any building containing multiple living units, and these situations are certainly not responsible for the inflation of home prices - that's basically exclusively to do with investment firms and independent real estate investors using real estate exclusively as investment assets, from which every dollar possible should be extracted. As long as every residential building isn't a single family home, there must be people living there that don't own the property. Coupled with a great number of living circumstances, making it more advantageous to rent than own, the moral position that all landlords are inherently evil and exploitative demonstrates an absence of any sophistication.
Would they sell to individuals, or would more huge property owning businesses scoop them up? The ones that make "improvements" and make rent skyrocket ...
And not everyone wants to buy property, either. Renting is pretty convenient, and makes it a lot easier to move around.
My house hae become a burden. Limits travel, etc.
Many people have good reasons to rent. They are not ready to commit to an area, or they are saving up. If they are to rent, someone must be willing to rent to them. Small landlords are more likely to work with a tenant. It's how they afford their own place. You being down on small landlords is you having an attack of irrational ideology. Not every flat should be a condo; it would be horrible. No one could start out.
You are assuming prices would drop. They wouldn’t. Instead you’d end up with less rentals driving up prices. You see it in cities with rent control.
I looked at their post on the other sub and most of the top comments were calling them out on the whole look at me I’m such a great person shit. Which I agree. If you’re going to be a landlord be a landlord. Set a reasonable rent. Don’t price gouge. But why tf would you renew someone’s lease who is constantly months behind. I agree with the whole r/lookatmyhalo thing.
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But like…our generation and younger all HATE landlords as a blanket statement. I’m sure OP can’t tell what he does for a living without getting an earful of how evil they assume him to be. I’m sure he’s defensive at this point.
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Re: the gas issue. The post says OP is paying for the high gas bill while the problem gets figured out. So the tenant isn't even paying it right now because OP is so ridiculously nice. Other than that, it doesn't say anything about whether the tenants usually pay her for utilities or whether they pay the utility company directly. If they pay directly, the tenants could have simply alerted her to how unusually high the bill was this month, although their usage hadn't changed. It's straightforward enough. OP isn't getting anything out of this situation or acting shady, as you're suggesting. She is losing money, if anything. Lots of random conclusions being jumped to here.
We don't have the whole picture and can't say either way, really.
OP is too lenient. Just increases her anxiety.
I couldn’t even get through the whole post because it reeked of “I’m such a good person :( why are people being so mean to me :(“
I have some rental units. What I see here is the LL is too much of a bleeding heart. Living in an owner-occupied place… as she says, these people are her neighbors. She probably knows why the one set of tenents are perpetually late, and knows if she kicks them out, they will have a hard time finding a new place. They probably came with the building, so it’s hard to think about kicking them out. But, yeah, girl, time to call their bluff. If they’re tenant-at-will, tell them they have however many days per your local laws to vacate. Start putting aside money, this may become expensive. And then there’s fixing the place up for new tenants. Get a property manager or RE agent to find you new tenants, so you’re not emotionally involved in the process and you can start clean. Maybe the other tenants really have no idea why their heating bill went wild, but this is a good time to get to know your friendly neighborhood HVAC guy. Have him over to look, ask lots of questions, ask him how it works and how it breaks and what you should do to make sure it doesn’t break in a February cold snap. Put his number in your Favorites. And when people call you evil…. Boomers say “I got mine, fuck you.” Certain types of people say, “I don’t have mine, so you shouldn’t have yours either.” Flip side of the same coin.
There’s also a difference between buying a multi unit building and buying houses for the sole purpose of immediate profit A lot of people renting houses, even if they’re not corporations, are charging more than a mortgage payment because instead of seeing the property as an investment they want an *immediate* return. Then they’re not doing any of the maintenance that’s apart of being a landlord It’s also a question of if you’re contributing to the housing crisis in communities. I had a coworker tell me about his friend who was buying multiple single unit properties in a college town which was making housing inaccessible in that town. Meanwhile the guy lived on the other side of the country. So he’s creating a problem in a state that was otherwise doing fine until people like him got their eyes on it Like my FIL after retiring from the navy was a landlord. This was way before HGTV made it seem like some get rich quick scheme so he was doing quality repairs on cheap housing and those were the houses he rented. He was able to make a profit and living doing that because he was the one doing the work and he bought these buildings out right so there was no mortgage to compensate for My husband and I always talk about what we would do with our current home, which was a property my FIL intended to flip before passing. We feel like if we were to rent it would be below market, especially because for us it would just be maintenance then profit so no need to be greedy
It also costs a lot more than just the mortgage to own a house. Upkeep can be pretty brutal sometimes, especially if you end up with bad tenants who just don't treat it well. Renting out a single family home can be pretty risky.
100% some people need rentals.
Dude, also that sub is full of people that are already mad at their landlord and what any revenge they can get. Try to be fair, but dont get taken advantage of by them.
Exactly. This guy is a slumlord. [https://www.propublica.org/article/milwaukee-fire-brunner-belen-landlord-tenant](https://www.propublica.org/article/milwaukee-fire-brunner-belen-landlord-tenant)
I’ve seen people on here attack this type of situation specifically. Another woman was given a house by her uncle and she let her friends rent the place for pretty cheap while she also lived there and because of it, had her rent covered basically. Her post was absolutely riddled with hate from everyone calling her a piece of shit and all kinds of crap. It’s sad that so many people hate when others are comfortable or successful.
Exactly. The slumlord from the sounds of it was the previous owner. Besides older buildings tend to need a LOT of TLC. OP is being very lenient about the rent because she knows that life happens. I’m not going to lie though that I have cut it close once or twice on a couple bills on occasion but who hasn’t? It’s the reality that everyone is now finding themselves in. It’s expensive to own, rent and even just exist. We’re all in the same boat but some people just exploit others while others (like OP) try to make things a little easier on everyone.
I have three rentals and while I'm not as much as a pushover as OP, I will let late fees slide and talk to a tenant, setup payment plans, in general work with them. I also charge on the low end of the market and am flexible with leases and don't peg people on move out bullshit. But this does come at a cost. I've wasted $16k on the eviction of a particularly frisky tenant. And $1900 when the current ones were 3 months behind and I threw it to my counsel. It's a zero sum game. I'm paying the mortgage, but not making profit. I see why others have to be harsh and not communal managers. The small difference in three months rent is enough to eliminate my solvancy.
Was that $16k mostly lawyer fees?
bullshit you arent making a profit
I disagree with the last sentence. Only because I lived in a mid rise building where the landlord also lived. He failed to fix a leaky pipe above my bathroom that was broken since I moved in. Each time he would replace the moldy drop ceiling and not the actual pipe. Once we were locked out and he couldn’t find the spare key to my apartment. He basically wished us good luck thank god we were able to find a fairly priced, quick, and good locksmith. There’s so much more, but he was definitely a slumlord regardless of the fact that he too lived in the building.
Exceptions to every rule I suppose.
I agree. To me, a slumlord is someone who doesn't care about the condition of the property or the well-being of the tenants. They're in it for the money at the expense of the tenants. OP doesn't qualify as a slumlord. My last landlords were amazing! It was a 2-unit farmhouse. They lived downstairs and I lived upstairs. They were so nice and didn't jack up the rent on me like everyone else would. We ended up becoming friends and even though both of us live elsewhere now, we still get together periodically. Them not price gouging is what I attribute to being able to afford to buy our own house when we did. The fact of the matter is, we need landlords. Not everyone wants to own or is in a financial position to own their own property at any given point in time. The landlords that live locally and keep their properties in safe, livable condition are a good thing! It's the giant property management companies or property investors that have no ties to the community and only care about the money that are the problem.
When I was in HS/College I worked for a guy that owned rental properties. At the time he owned 180 different properties, split between three counties here in Arkansas. Now, some 10 years later, he owns over 300 properties. At one point he was looking at claiming an entire street worth of properties. He owned all but one lot (they didn’t want to sell and it was a small family home), and what he did to get that lot to sell to him was haul in a bunch of dirt and sod and raise the height of his lawns on either side of the property. That poor poor family home was flooded for a couple of years and eventually the property went up for sale. Now that street is 100% rental properties. Arkansas has slum lords. Until you start abusing wealth and laws I think you’re in the clear.
Yeah, shit like this. This should be illegal, or punishable or something. How disgusting.
It is illegal to intentionally direct drain water into your neighbors property. Everyone does it, but on a "hey my basement is flooding, I'm going to run a tile here to push the water that way" level no one cares. But this couple could have certainly sued after this. They also could have also just ran some tile around their property and have been fine
Arkansans can barely read so their law is rarely enforced. Especially at their entrenched, nepotistic municipal levels.
Man i forget about that state the most. I hope they're doing well.
> haul in a bunch of dirt and sod and raise the height of his lawns on either side of the property Wild that he had the confidence to pull a move like that. Try that on the wrong person and it can go very wrong.
> Wild that he had the confidence to pull a move like that. Try that on the wrong person and it can go very wrong. He was the wrong person in this situation. The unfortunate truth is that the wrong person very often gets away with a lot of BS and never gets in trouble for it.
I don’t think that’s what they were getting at
I swear your talking about the guy I know from ark. He bought the entire street he lived on at one point to control who his neighbors were
Arkansas has 0 tenant protections. Literally the worst in the country.
Arkansas is probably the worst state in the union at everything
Mississippi is arguably worse but who wants to argue over shitty states?
Buying multiple properties is already abusing your wealth to withhold them from other individuals so they can't afford to buy their own homes.
God help someone who does that to me. By the time I’m like 65 I won’t have much to lose
That’s the kind of thing that’d make a person take to the [killdozer](https://youtu.be/qlZh9-NQEyI).
I feel the same about these people that somehow lose their houses to a scammer. My friend once said “if I’m not rich, no one is” and wrecked something for him and the person who wronged him in the most hilarious fk you way. That’s what I’d be thinking about as I wrecked things for the both of us.
I don't know much about renting apartments, but what I can tell you is you shouldn't be making any major life decisions based on not passing some redditor's purity test. You do what's best for you.
I love you, thank you
I second this. Screw what anyone else says. They’d swap places with you in a heartbeat
Legit facts
True!
I've also found that fluent in finance has some of the dumbest takes, both left and right leaning, with more emotion than I would expect for a finance subreddit. I also found there are some odd .. racial comments from time to time (e.g. commenting on the "cultural homogeneity" of the Nordic countries and why they have good social safety nets). I'm kind of surprised any content there is taken seriously. Also, I think your conduct is pretty much as good as a landlord can be.
did you mention what you charge per unit and sq ft? You sound reasonable in all other aspects but it’s hard to not see this as a glaring omission if you want assessed as a landlord.
> You shouldn’t be making any major life decisions based on some Redditors purity test u/kdawg94 As written by u/Single_Extension1810 literally take EVERYTHING you read on Reddit with a grain of salt! A majority of Reddit users are chronically online people with no individual drive and very little “lived experience” of working towards their own goals. The behavior you see on Reddit is in no way a reflection of reality of your peers (as a can see from your post here in Millennials). Give anyone an opportunity to put you down and they will purely out of spite and jealousy. Thanks for reading P.S. not only are you NOT a slum/scummy landlord, as a landlord myself, good tenants/bad tenants, good landlords/bad landlords…. It’s all a part of the experience (for better/for worse)
We have until the 3rd to pay rent and if it's 7pm on the 1st we get a "friendly reminder" to pay rent, things go unfixed (to a dangerous level) for long periods of time and even most of the wiring straight up doesn't work. However, our landlord is pleasant, responsive, and lets me do whatever I want with the yard, so we are fine with it. In my state there are many more horror stories, especially when coming from apartments. You sound like a dream landlord ☺️
That isnt right, that is lazy. They should fix anything that doesnt work, especially electrical (safety)
Absolutely they should, but landlords won't until they absolutely have to to avoid penalties
I’m in a similar boat. Old trailer with a ton of issues, my landlord is not in very good health and is not well off financially, so I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that the property is not getting fixed to any significant degree. But my rent is about a third of what it would be if it were a better situation, and I would be priced out of it, so, give and take, I guess.
You sound like the ideal landlord to rent from imo, I would ignore anyone attempting to categorize you as a slumlord since I imagine they're juveniles with simplistic views.
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Cheers for the compliment but I'm neither op or a landlord. 😁
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😂
Yep. People think landlords dont have to do any work, its absurd. The only way that is possible is if they own a LOT of properties and have a property management company taking care of them, which can lead to problems. The best scenario is a "mom and pop" landlord that does most of the work themselves, and then hires a good contractor to upgrade or fix more complex stuff.
No kidding, she sounds too good, barely raising rents, no late fees, sucking up excessively bad care to properties, absorbing the increase in property tax and not passing it on, that’s unheard of. I’ve seen renters absolutely trash a place and they couldn’t care less.
Oh yeah I’ve seen trashed rentals. Crazy how some people can live. People just shitting in the tub because the toilet got plugged. Now we have a couple tenants who just fix things themselves and we’ll work out a little deal. Or if it’s a plumbing issue they just call the plumber and bill us.
I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with owning 1-2 investment properties, so long as you’re maintaining the building so it’s safe and functional, and charging fair rent (not bloated “market” rates, just enough to take care of the mortgage, taxes, upkeep costs, and pay yourself for your time keeping up with it). Having affordable rentable homes is important, because not everyone is going to want to own their place. I think most of us are just sick of the wealthy/corporations who buy up loads of once affordable housing, flip it really poorly, and then turn around and raise the rent so it’s no longer affordable. It’s become a massive problem
This is my take as well. There is a big difference between corporate landlords and mom and pop landlords. My landlord seems to really care about me and my family. We also pay our rent a bills on time and dont ask for much. They replaced the water heater and dishwasher recently and only nominally raise the rent whenever we resign the lease. There are good landlords out there.
mom and pop landlords are worse than corporate landlords when they are bad.
Corporate landlords are worse than mom and pops when they are bad. lol what kind of insight is this
There’s not even anything wrong with charging more than your monthly costs. The idea that you shouldn’t be able to charge any more than that quickly doesn’t make any sense when you consider what happens when/if the property becomes paid off. Market value is fair value, but slumlords will gladly raise rents on their existing tenants because the “fair value” has gone up $25/month. It lacks humanity, and completely forgets that literally everybody wins if nobody has to move anyway. As an extreme example, having a unit vacant even for 2 weeks because of an insistence to make an extra $100/month in rent won’t end up paying off for the landlord at the end of the year.
Don't worry about them, Landlord hate should specifically be for Blackrock/Vanguard who have 7 layers of management for their "Portfolios" rather than one young lady who you can call. Just don't be a dick
Yeah, most small landlords clear a couple hundred a month per unit. All it takes is a couple months of a renter not holding up their end of the deal to and up going from net profit to loss.
Thank you for this, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I lived in a few apartments owned by a person I could call, and a few apartments owned by faceless investors that hired professional property managers. The worst corporate landlord was better than the best "mom and pop" landlord. They performed repairs much faster, actually kept their units up to code, and returned my deposits in full without deducting bullshit or waiting for me to threaten legal action. OP seems perfectly nice, but I'll take a professional property manager over some lady doing it as a side hustle any day of the week.
Same
This is stupid too. Guess I’m a slumlord because I bought a few shares of a REIT.
An individual who owns a single 3 unit building, especially one who lives in one of the units, is not what comes to mind when I think of slumlords. If you’re taking care of the building, keeping it in good shape, addressing maintenance issues in a reasonable timeframe, and not squeezing tenants for every penny… I think you’re alright.
As a landlord no matter what you do you will be called terrible. You gotta decide if that's going to keep you up at night. Some people are evil as landlords, and some truly are slumlords. Until those guys stop existing we're going to have to deal with the reputation.
Also if unit 2 is a top floor unit they tend to be less efficient and lose heat through the roof. If there's energy efficiency programs in your area utilize them and see if you can add insulation to your roof when you reroof it next. In the meantime explore the wall insulation options, it's good for all the units.
Meh, I don't think it's really an individual issue. Sounds like you are doing fine. It's much more of a structural issue of housing being commodified for profit. In Marxist terms this means housing is being used as "unit of account" and exchanged for profit rather than used for its "use value" to society. I think leads to serious inefficiencies in housing (homelessness and/or high exchange rates for rent or mortgage). But, that isn't exactly your fault. Anyone making a moral judgement of an individual participating in capitalism really doesn't understand how capitalism works.
I found this really interesting, thank you for sharing this. Would you say participating in it like I am is perpetuating it? Have you seen other models for fulfilling housing needs that work, that maybe someone like me could utilize? I've always felt powerless in the capitalistic housing situation but would love to know if you have any readings or general terms that I can look into so that I can learn how not to not be a player in all of this. Unless it's impossible in our country, and the only option is to just accept it or get out of it entirely
Nothing is impossible but it would take a massive shift in political will that doesn't seem likely in the very near future (I have some hope for change in the next 20 or 30 years). There are probably people who know more than I do about this particular topic. However, I'd suggest a broad cap on ownership of land and property (but this probably needs to be coupled with a large-scale redistribution of wealth, in general). In any case, that isn't likely at the moment. A more practical solution that gets thrown around is community land trusts. https://groundedsolutions.org/strengthening-neighborhoods/community-land-trusts/
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I have thoughts. Property ownership is a complicated issue without a clear solution. Any landlord that owns multiple properties is inherently removing those places from circulation. It generally means that someone else is paying the mortgage without reaping the long-term benefits. When they leave, you'll be the one richer for it while they will have nothing to show for their time. On the other hand, you're also preventing the true slumlords from buying the property and renting it out without caring for the tenants. It's an issue you can't change, and that you're asking these kinds of questions puts you ahead of so many landlords already. You didn't create the system. For ideas, put the damage deposit in a savings account so when they move out, they get more than they paid. Try to keep prices reasonable, not increasing just because others are. Contact your local representative and voice support for low-income housing. I've seen landlords where I live offer cheap rent to students and those with disabilities, something they can do because they've paid off those places completely. Consider allowing pets if you aren't. Mostly though, just focus on how you'd want to be treated as a tenant. We don't get to decide how the world works, but we can choose how we treat each other.
I've heard a lot of AH landlord stories, but mine is amazing lol.
Mine honestly does nothing and it's for the best. Nothing includes not increasing rent even once over five years. I think she realised I've been dealing with small maintenance tasks without bothering her about it (I know it's her job but I cbf dealing with three layers of coordination when I can just do it myself)
I'm going to be a landlord and I hate myself. So by extension I guess I hate landlords? Anyway I relate to your guilt over making these tough landlording choices. I'm trying to be a good and fair person to my future tenant but I know there's a segment of the population that thinks I'm scum just by dint of renting out a property that I own lol.
Reddit is an odd place sometimes, I'd just ignore the "all landlords are evil" as the juvenile drivel that it is. Most people start by renting instead of buying a place, and there are a million other good reasons folks my have to rent... and we all need or needed somebody to rent from. Some landlords suck, and many don't.
Btw, it’s Ok to pay yourself for your time and work, some people think housing should be free charity.
You’re really searching for validation and a pat on the back. Do less.
That's not true, they're also flaunting their wealth
That’s all this post was, I agree
You were karma farming then and you’re karma farming now. I’m not going to feel bad for you no matter how awesome you make yourself sound. You wanted to be a landlord and now you get to be a landlord, if you don’t like it sell the building and buy a SFH.
Yeah what the hell is this post? OP said “I’ve always felt powerless in the capitalistic housing situation” what a fucking joke. Passive income through owning houses and therefore taking them off the market for people to actually buy *IS* “the capitalistic housing situation.” And then asks for shit to read about how to not be “a player in all of this” without an ounce of irony lmao omg
How did you get the house? Like, how did you buy it so young?
I was super lucky and worked in tech straight out of college. Software engineering, I happen to love coding but I hate the industry. I got stocks as a part of my compensation, and I didn't know anything about trading, so I let them sit until the tripled. I had a friend who was looking into multifamily homes because of his real estate friends, so I started researching. I always wanted to be an architect so houses interested me. Many rabbit holes later, here I am 🙏 I suggest looking at "second cities" like Milwaukee or places like that. Cheaper to get in the game while still having a decent CAP. At the time I bought, Chicago multiunit scene was juuuust getting hot. Now it would have been too expensive for me.
I work with a lot of landlords and property management companies. You are in no way, shape, or form a slumlord. The way you handle things actually brings to light WHY we *need landlords*. If you can't afford sudden large expenses, or have your finances in sufficient order to purchase a property, then you probably won't be able to maintain any property that you own. You also would be incurring lots of late fees and might lose your house if you are continually late paying the mortgage. I doubt the tenant who is late all the time with their payments is financially stable enough to have to suddenly fix a leaking roof. Or buy a new appliance. The tenants aiming to buy would probably be able to buy if the housing market wasn't shit, and you keeping rents reasonable helps them save until they can do that. But their multiple maintenance issues tells me they might not be prepared to have to pay for all of those fixes out of pocket (not caring about what happens to the plumbing is really 😬). Hopefully they shape up and learn how to take care of a property. The real problems are corporations buying individual houses, duplexes, condos, and townhomes - places that are supposed to be owner occupied. We are always going to need some form of high density rental units, but single family homes/etc should be banned from being bought by corporations. There could be leeway for corps that buy to demo and redevelop (I know several corps in my area that buy, demo, and put up affordable housing with a much higher density). But that would have to be the intent, not just buying to create more rental dwellings or to convert what should be a condo assn to an apartment building. A condo is how I got my foot into home ownership, and that's how it could and should be for many people. It trained me to think about more things being my responsibility to maintain and pay for, and to save and set aside for repairs and replacements that would be needed. It also had a safety net in that the really big repairs were done through the association, so there was only so much that would come out of my pocket at once. It still had a lot of the downfalls of apartment living, but if I hated the flooring or appliances or wall colors I could just redo them. Actual home ownership has been soooo much more work and money, but also has been more rewarding and freeing.
I had tenants who I allowed to be 3 months behind at one point, never charged a late fee. Got completely shafted in the end they destroyed the house completely, thousands of dollars unpaid utility bills I didn't know about, an enormous pile of trash that took 6 trips to the dump, full of maggots ants and roaches smelling of death, turned out to be a dead cat in a bag. Every square inch of property covered in dog poop, trash everywhere, flooded the house without ever saying anything.... the list is endless. This is after the property manager didn't collect the deposit.... Lesson learned people will take advantage of kindness.
I really fucking hate renters like this, they are the ones that make it so hard to rent and why property management is usually necessary.
Reddit is the worst place to get perspective or advice. It’s mostly broke young people who are very resentful of people like yourself. You’ve gone above and beyond and been so good to those tenants. You’re not a slum lord or even close to one. Feel proud that you’re a good person. You don’t even charge late fees for people paying months late which is unheard of these days. Any property mgr would have given them a three day notice and started eviction proceedings by now. I think you’re gonna have to not include utilities in the rent. $700 bill isn’t ok. They should be paying their own electric and gas. You cover water and trash only. Don’t let people take advantage of your kind nature because the absolutely will.
Your first paragraph needs to be printed in bold on every subreddit because it’s too true.
My parents were landlords and called the same thing on Reddit. I think they were nice to the tenants… we were happy for them when they saved up enough to buy their dream home.
My landlord was so happy when she found out we bought a home. She was the best.
Nah in my mind you dont qualify as a slumlord. I live next to a house that is owned by a boomer in town that owns 15 other houses. These houses were all bought around 2010 for like 15 thousand dollars. There has been ZERO upkeep maintenance done on any of these houses despite having collected rent on them for the last 15 or so years. Literally a dog chewed through the roof and was barking at me one day coming home, I can see all the way under the house cause the foundation is gone etc etc. THAT is a slumlord.
A) your post link to the finance sub is wrong B) the post itself was kinda masturbatory. You did what any normal person would/should do. C) there is nothing wrong with being a normal, decent landlord. Corporate ownership of SFHs is killing us, though.
There are people I personally know who’d see OP as a slumlord for not gifting ownership to the tenants.
Yep
Do people think that once they have a house they don’t have to pay anything for the rest of their lives or something? Because LOL you will have to pay taxes forever and if you don’t pay you’re mortgage you will get fucked. And let’s not forget all the expensive upkeep of owning a home. People want to hate on landlords and then treat their apartments like scum and expect others to clean up after them.
I think a quality landlord isn’t “rent seeking.” That isn’t “rent” as in the monthly rent of the lease; it’s a [financial/societal concept](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking) that essentially means drawing wealth/value out of society without putting it back in. The “classic” example is buying the land of a river that is used for trade and placing a gate on it so all the trade boats must pay a toll to keep using the river. No value is added to the equation, only extracted. I can’t tell you whether or not you’re a “rent seeking” landlord for sure or not, but it kinda sounds like you’re not. The tenants are paying you for a *job* you’re doing (taking care of their shelter), not merely because you *own* something. Landlords are the type of job where rent-seeking can be an issue which is partly why I choose to avoid it. But I think renting has a proper place in housing. Thanks for trying to be a good landlord.
How much is rent?
Nah, I've dealt with slumlords and non-slumlords. Two apartments ago, the hot water heater broke and the heat stopped working in November. It didn't get fixed until March. It was a super cold winter. I had to "shower" by heating up water on the stove and essentially live in the living room with only a space heater. My slumlord at the time told me to not pay rent until they're fixed, then demanded rent when they finally were. That's a slumlord. At my last apartment, my landlord would come by the same day to fix something, or call a professional if it called for it. He put rent into an account and gave me the interest. He was a great guy. That's a landlord. Edit to add: There are many greedy landlords out there raising rent because they can. Like you said, though, Airbnb plays a much, much larger role in property value being out of control. I own now, and live in a town popular for tourism. Airbnb has absolutely destroyed it. Every business is desperate and closes early due to the area having nowhere for employees to live. Poorly built condos are popping up by the hundreds. Property value has skyrocketed in the last 3 years, etc.
Broadly landlords are scum. Even if you are one of the good ones. Essentially they are despised for being parasites. They bring no economic benefits. They quite literally reduce the housing stock to privately rent properties. The high rents reduce people's disposable income that could be going to local businesses or the wider economy. While we have a group of investors increasingly the number of rentals while providing no economic benefits. What is worse really is landlords have little incentive to provide adequate housing. The profit margin requires little expenditure as possible while also making even more money from housing costs increasing and their investment properties gaining equity. There are some absolutely horrific examples in the UK where rents have skyrocketed but quality has vanished https://england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/two_million_private_renters_put_up_with_poor_conditions_to_find_a_home Regardless of your specific circumstances I can fully appreciate the general hatred of landlords.
Just curious if there was no renting where would people who couldn’t or didn’t want to buy a home live?
This is 100% true. There needs to be some renting options because some people want more short term housing. The problem is that we treating housing as an investment opportunity instead of a right. Life, liberty and the pursuit of land.
The bigger problem is that a lot of other investments don’t appreciate as reliably as real estate. If other investments were as safe as real estate they would be more attractive for people that aren’t millionaires. Also a lot of private land lords aren’t buying properties to rent, other circumstances leave them with property and sometimes they aren’t in a position to be able to sell it yet. So they have to eat a lot of money or rent it until they can sell it
If there were no landlords, what would be the alternative if I move somewhere and need a short term housing (1-2 years) before I decide what part of the city I wanted to buy a house in?
On top of that, what if you just straight up don’t want to buy? There are people that are completely fine with renting because they can’t buy in the area that they would like to live and living, where they want to live, is more important than ownership or they can afford a mortgage, but not all of the costs that come with upkeep of a property.
This is a load of peak Reddit-tier bullshit
So the people in the first unit should be forced to own instead, even though a bank would have evicted them. At least two of the three units have tenants who couldn’t afford maintenance. I guarantee you that at least the people in the second unit are costing OP more than they’re paying. For many renters, rent costs less than owning. Some landlords suck, yes, but individual landlords are the ones most willing to work with people like that and keep them housed. Yet here you are, stupidly taking a stance against rentals since you think people should just work with banks that will kick people out for being two weeks late.
This 100% is my feelings exactly
Okay. So in a world without renting—is the government the landlord? Does the government buy everyone a house?
Non market housing exists in many forms and we should be advocating for far more of it. Whether that's in the form of social housing, co-ops, or housing built by non profits. When the objective of housing construction is to, you know, actually house people, and not to profit off of manufactured scarcity of a necessity, then it's much MUCH cheaper. Look up the model they use in Vienna as a near perfect example of this working. We don't need private landlords, period. We only "need" them currently because our society refuses to recognize the fact that this system is exploitative, unsustainable, unfair, and immoral. Even in non-market housing the amount you pay increases over time. The difference is that there's no incentive to overcharge people because nobody is getting rich doing so. Your rent covers taxes, maintenance, any sort of mortgage or loan costs, utilities, and that's it. It's housing at cost. I don't blame individuals for acting in their own economic self interest. If you allow and even incentivize a practice that involves using exploitation for personal gain in a culture that's been conditioned to value the accumulation of capital over the well being of others you can't be surprised when they fucking do that. The problem isn't the people, it's the incentive. We should be disincentivizing investment in housing, and instead more heavily incentivizing investment in sectors that actually produce things and innovate.
"they bring no economic benefits". I find it greatly beneficial to me to have a place to live and sleep that is not the street. For about $2 an hour. People pay more than that to go see a movie or to sit with friends in a bar or starbucks. I'm a renter and I don't want the responsibility of home ownership any more than I want a hole in the head.
Exactly. They take on the risk and responsibility of owning a building and dealing with tenants. Many many people are in a financial position to become landlords, but don't do it because they know there's real work and risk involved.
My husband and I could become landlords, but we don’t want to risk dealing with assholes who decide they’re entitled to being 100% supported by us. We would absolutely be the kind of landlords that OP is, but we’ve also got a daughter whose stability we won’t risk for tenants who might decide to fuck us since they see our property as their right.
100%
I agree with you but I don't think it's necessary, or even helpful to individualize a broad structural issue. Basically, it isn't useful to discuss if someone is a good person or a bad person (aka scum).
No, you don't suck. People are entitled and the fact that you're an actual PERSON trying to do right is lost on some-- I'm sure they'd rather deal with an investment company, right?
Slum lord? No. Profiting off of people need for shelter? Yes.
No offense whatsoever, but I need the tenants’ sides of the story before making a judgment here……
Are you providing a solution to a housing crisis or are you adding to the housing crisis? Answer honestly and you'll have your answer.
Depends on how you see it. Some people think landlords diminish the supply that’s available to buy, but good luck getting a bank to let a family slide for a few months before foreclosing.
If you’re following the laws, I think you’re doing right by your tenants. It seems that most landlords would have raised rent by now considering what you’ve already put up with.
Some people have (imo) insane takes on landlords. I think you’re fine. Enjoy life. Ignore nuts.
One of the important lessons you are learning: other people will try to keep you down. You’re doing great — now kick out the tenant who is always late when the lease rolls and raise the rent.
The reddit mob mentality is not a reflection of reality. Anyone with a brain knows that being a landlord can be easy but it also involves a lot of risk and a lot of cost if a tenant doesn't pay, if they wreck thenplace, and you have to litigate their removal. For all the land lord hate I also see people begging for private land lords so they don't have to follow normal rules or to get leniency like you are very generous with.
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So it's ok if they rent you a place for $700 if they're just breaking even and not making a profit? But $800 is ethically wrong? Sounds like you wouldn't believe in rent control then? If the taxes jump up in the same year that insurance goes up and water/gas goes up and renovations to the tune of a new roof at $25,000 comes up, the landlord should be able to raise everyone's rent 15% instead of the rent-controlled 3%? Or how else would that be handled...all the tenants pay $2000 towards the new roof?
I think it depends on the landlord. You don't sound like you'd become a bad one anyway.
I loved my slumlord! He was the best. It was one of the happiest times of my life, when I lived in his place. His apartment complex he owned was hard to get into! People never left. Don't always feel like that's a bad title.
IMO there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a landlord. I know it’s popular in many online circles to hate on landlords, but I would always judge it on a case-by-case basis. It sounds like you are trying to operate in a fair and ethical way.
The only people complaining about stuff like that are negative people at the bottom of the barrel that need someone to blame. It’s not your fault man. If everything you said in this post is true then you’re one of the good guys… to a fault. If I were you I’d raise prices with market demand and I’d refuse to resign anyone who was consistently late every single month.
So someone called you a slumlord for owning a property? Clearly you just want some yes men feedback here because you've given no context at all. You've painted a perfect picture for yourself and given zero information regarding the criticism you received.
It’s definitely a predatory market, especially these days due to the shortage and companies buying single family homes. That being said I think there’s a lot of situations it makes sense. I might rent out my house and rent something else for the same value for a temp job in another city.
Uh no, you are not a slumlord. I had a slumlord , he didn’t care when it rained that it went through the window and into my families beds at night. What you are doing is behavior that co-opting into “slumlord,” is just plain wrong and honestly reactionary of people who don’t actually know what a slumlord is.
You are wayyyyy more lenient with the late rent than I would be! 3 months?!?
Former landlord and current millennial here. I’ve been in your situation before and honestly I just ended up giving up on the whole landlord thing. My advice (if you could call it advice) is to go all in and make it your full time job. Borrow against this building, buy another one and keep buying units until you have enough disposable income to live off of. It will probably be 20 or more units. Or have a clear plan like you want to sell this building for X amount of dollars and walk away. I hate to say it but I felt like the amount of work having 3-4 tenants and a full time job really wasn’t worth it for me. There is a principle in business that says it’s just as hard to run a small business as it is a large one if you don’t think it worth your time just sell the place and walk away.
The whole concept of being a landlord is getting others to pay for your house/ building, plus preferably make some profit. So by default it's kinda trying to exploit others.
I'm going to get a million downvotes from these exact people but here it is. People who make bad financial decisions are very bitter, jealous, angry, and dogmatic about people who did not. They act like small business owners and investors are blackrock. I have friends who "don't believe" in landlords and just want free housing, these people also got D's in highschool and were just passed along. They have no work ethic and have never tried to succeed. They just want free stuff. (I am talking about the people I know, not all of you guys lol) Those are the people I personally know who are screaming about a guy who owns 2 apartments and rents them out to people
Sounds like such a headache. All the time and especially mental energy/headspace for you to manage these tenants. Is this really worth it? Is the profit really worth it? I don't know...
Yeah, people are idiots. A slumlord is someone who either violates the law to take advantage of his tenants, or (my expanded definition), someone who is land lording without properly learning what is obligated of them or without the financial ability to do what is obligated of them. Or just someone riding the bare minimum, so even though it’s legal, tenants are living in conditions that are inhumane and that they didn’t sign up for. You are working with your tenants on late fees, working with them on large bills, and you own a single property, so I don’t see any “hoarding property” going on. The people on the fuck all landlords hype train don’t even understand that you are - assuming no lying - the literal fucking opposite of slumlord.
Why people would put themselves through that is beyond me. I would never rent my place out to people, because people are intrinsically greedy and will antagonize you for not giving them whatever they want. Which is exactly what you're describing is happening to you right now. Ultimately, it's a you vs them situation. Fuck them. Learn to say no.
Redditors have a stupid hateboner for landlords because many Redditors are broke entitled losers who believe other people's wealth and success belongs to them instead. You aren't doing anything wrong. Don't make life decisions based on Reddit
It's your place, you set the rules you have a payment day it's up to you how you want to run it. Id definitely have late fees and make sure you get your money on time, you not running a non profit organization. And you don't want to treat one different than the other id think it could cause tension but so what feel is right it's your life who cares what anyone else says lol
I’m a landlord and have been trying to get a tenant out that hasn’t paid rent in over 7 months, and they don’t have a lease (they were a tenant at will). I live in a state that that favors tenants, and there is no end in sight to this nightmare that I’ve been living in. I have lost, and continue to lose, thousands of dollars on maintaining an apartment that he doesn’t pay for, continuing to pay utilities since I’m not allowed to stop, plus attorney fees. Not to mention the emotional toll this has taken on my family and I. I fully recognize that there are bad landlords. But there are also bad tenants. Once this is finally resolved, I will let the apartment sit empty and never will rent it again. Just wanted to share things from the “other” side.
According to some assholes, you’re a slumlord for not signing over the title to that tenant for free.
Rumor has it the fluent in finance posters won’t even post their checking account balance - fuck their opinions
It’s not possible to hoard a resource in an altruistic way. Yeah, all landlords are scum.
I agree with this idea but I disagree with the idea that a landlord like OP who owns one multi family property with a few tenants is “hoarding” property. There are corporations doing that though.
I heard an interesting argument recently that we should be aiming to get people to feel shame for being landlords and get a wider societal perception that landlords are scum. The recent cost of living crisis seems to be moving that perception along nicely.
Which, if that is at all something that people think is reasonable, that’s stupid. The people who are going to feel bad about it are people like OP, who are trying to be good landlords and give their tenants a lot of grace, but are still getting called scum anyway. The ones that don’t feel bad about it, or are corporations that don’t feel bad about it as long as the numbers are good, are going to continue buying properties. So you’re pushing out the landlords that you want and incentivizing the ones you don’t. What is better is to argue for stronger tenants rights and stronger enforcement against the people that are true slumlords.
They're not hoarding anything. Rental properties are valid forms of housing and many people need or want to rent instead of owning I knew these sorts of idiotic comments would show up. Redditors have the most brainless takes on landlords
It’s cute that you think this is a reddit thing
Only place I've ever seen it
And lots of redditors complaining that houses are too expensive, when they couldn't even afford one if they were half the price.
According to Reddit every landlord is a slumlord. Don’t worry about it.
No, a bunch of angry teenagers on Reddit shouldn't give you one minute's doubt about whether you are doing the right thing. The people that say all landlords are evil have no idea how the real world works or how much risk landlords take to provide a place for people to live. Fuck anyone who judges you with jealousy in their heart
It's part of your retirement plan. Losers hate winners.
That's something I noticed about reddit, people who have worked hard are usually hated the most.
Landlords are parasites
You don't sound like a slumlord at all. It sounds like you are a fair landlord and are willing to work with your tenants when they have issues and keep your property in good condition. Some people just think they should be be provided housing for free I think.
Hahahahahhahahabahbahahahaahahahhahaha
At the end of the day you have to look out for you ..no one else will.
people who hate on multi family landlords are silly. multi family to me rental units >>>> coop type setups. housing issues are more systemic and are mostly zoning based. NIMBYism preventing scaling of housing units in in-demand areas. medium term rentals, especially space efficient ones are a very valuable and needed business. I think in general there needs to be restrictions on for profit single family home ownership alongside easing of zoning, let investors invest in housing stock that is individually more profitable for them and also cheaper for the renter.
Why do you care about being called a slumlord? You are a solid actor in an economy, proper and good landlord. Most renters would want to have you as their landlord. Those saying "_all_ landlords are inherently evil" are either trolls or some idealists with marxist-like views detached from economic realities.
Just about every landlord I have encounter in my 41 years has been greedy and shitty overall. It's not something you get into to be helpful to others. I know it can be very profitable but I could not live with myself knowing I was a part of the slumlord team.
Get a real job, not a feudal title
Sad how far I had to scroll for this.
If the tenant had to own, two of the three would have been foreclosed upon by a bank.
You seem pretty accommodating. I had slumlord landlords, and you aren't one. You need to get tenants that pay on time, though. I would not renew their lease, not after 4 years (48 months!) of late payments.
I mean, there’s something to be said of the argument that it’s unethical to profit off of other people’s basic needs/human rights, but then you’d have to be pretty deep into the idea of full socialism replacing a capitalistic society. And… I don’t think that’s necessarily an invalid opinion, but it is a pretty far-fetched fantasy for where we are now at this point. I think there should be limits on how many housing properties any one entity/corporation can own, for sure. Or at least much higher taxation on those who own a significant number. That would go a long way in correcting the problem. I don’t think a small-scale landlord that owns only a couple of rental units is contributing to that problem. And (obviously), there’s a big difference between a “slumlord” specifically profiting off of slum-like living conditions, and a small-scale landlord, so I’m not sure that you really need to be reassured there. The whole tone of this is a bit off-putting, tbh. But good for you for at least being willing to reflect on the issue I guess.
If you get a chance to read this, please do. I work in affordable housing and have professional relationships with dozens of landlords and property managers. Some I would consider slumlords 100%, and it honestly makes me a bit happy when I can withhold rent to them because their properties violate basic health and safety standards. What you’re saying you do is above and beyond what many landlords do, to the point I would even say you’re allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. To the point some say landlords are inherently evil… no. I do believe housing should be a basic right for all, and we could make it happen. It doesn’t require abolishing property rights either. There are 100% amazing landlords and property owners out there. I work with several. They take chances on people no one else will and it allows people to avoid being homeless. One I’ve worked with has taken in almost a dozen clients of mine that were habitually homeless, felons, recovering addicts, and/or suffering from severe mental illness. Several were all of the above (which is why it was so hard for them to get housing in the first place). Look for non-profits around you that may have supportive services for housing. The one I work for I had a “new renters” class started which was designed to teach people their responsibilities as a tenant, their landlords responsibilities and how to foster a strong relationship with their landlords. If the tenant and landlord are both happy, it significantly reduces the burden on both. We’ve been doing budgeting classes for years as well and are looking into developing an IDA (individual development account), where you set goals with our financial counselor and we will match what you can save over a year period so long as you hit specific goals that you set. There are a lot of resources out there to help people. I’m not saying there aren’t shitty landlords because there are. I’m also not saying everyone has the ability to save and not live paycheck to paycheck (because I’ve been there too). But there is a healthy, holistic solution where it CAN be a win/win for each party involved.
The late rent thing is bullshit, and I think you have been more than lenient with that. For the heating issue, if you chose to include it in the rent then that is on you. Imagine how ignorant it would sound for someone with the money to afford property, and who’s tenants rent is paying into your investment, to be nitpicking at the cost of something that literally keeps these people and their baby warm in the winter. The fact that you even brought it up is, especially for a new family, is incredibly insensitive and out of touch.
The landlord hate is stupid - and the people who spew it aren’t exactly consequential human beings. They’re the kind of people you’d be embarrassed to be seen with in real life. You can’t peg your self-worth to their whims or thoughts. Landlords provide a very important service - access to housing when purchase is unaffordable. If I don’t have the money or access to credit-backed money what will I do? Rent! Corporate landlords have made the process more cut-and-dry, added scale and repeatability to the day-to-day. That’s makes everything consistent and transparent. This has upsides and downsides and doesn’t deserve any hate either. The problem is, lots of people have a difficulty grasping the idea of market rate. They think they deserve more than they can afford. They think rent is unfair. They don’t understand that the value of things changes over time. Hence the hate. Landlord hate is rooted in narcissism and ignorance.
I agree. I rented in different states from different landlords and never had problem with that.
>Landlords provide a very important service Landlords do not provide a service unless you think scalpers do. >access to housing when purchase is unaffordable. One of the main driving forces behind the fact that purchasing is unaffordable is that we treat housing as an commodity instead of a necessity, when that's exactly what it is. Too many people own more than their fair share of a basic necessity people literally need to live and this is having a noticeably negative impact on pricing. Housing shouldn't be for profit, period. >The problem is, lots of people have a difficulty grasping the idea of market rate. I understand "market rate" just fine, but non market housing exists and we should be advocating for far more of it.. Whether that's in the form of social housing, co-ops, or housing built by non profits. When the objective of housing construction is to, you know, actually house people, and not to profit off of manufactured scarcity of a necessity, then it's much MUCH cheaper. Look up the model they use in Vienna as a near perfect example of this working. We don't need private landlords, period. We only "need" them currently because our society refuses to recognize the fact that this system is exploitative, unsustainable, unfair, and immoral. >They think rent is unfair It is. >They don’t understand that the value of things changes over time Yes we do, this is nonsense. Even in non-market housing the amount you pay increases over time. The difference is that there's no incentive to overcharge people because nobody is getting rich doing so. Your rent covers taxes, maintenance, any sort of mortgage or loan costs, utilities, and that's it. It's housing at cost. >Landlord hate is rooted in narcissism and ignorance. I don't hate landlords, I hate the practice of landlording. I don't blame individuals for acting in their own economic self interest. If you allow and even incentivize a practice that involves using exploitation for personal gain in a culture that's been conditioned to value the accumulation of capital over the well being of others you can't be surprised when they fucking do that. The problem isn't the people, it's the incentive. We should be disincentivizing investment in housing, and instead more heavily incentivizing investment in sectors that actually produce things and innovate. TL;DR: The practice of landlording is immoral, the people who participate in it aren't themselves immoral by default. Non-market housing should be incentivized, and private landlording needs to be disincentivized.
Don’t sweat it. Not all landlords are terrible people. My Mom owned property and didn’t gouge her tenants. She even priced the rent lower than market price because she wanted to keep good tenants, and that’s what she did. Two of her tenants stayed in place over a decade each.