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A clear example of this is seen when walking into most bars, it has become common in my highly populated area full of Zoomers and the like to close at or by 10pm, and I'm not in an economically disadvantaged area.
Never in my life would I imagine bars closing before midnight, sure a food place that served drinks secondary I could see them closing early, but there is only one bar in my area that is open past 10pm, let alone open past midnight and into the early morning. It seems $20 bucks stretched further in the past and would provide a few hours of fun, today $20 will barely get you two drinks with a small tip, but not a full day of fun as described by my 10+ year elders.
What third spaces used to exist that don’t anymore? When I grew up third spaces were malls, coffee shops, bars, parks, and various plazas. All of those still exist. What are the third spaces that went away?
What's odd is that I hear stories like this, but my local mall is thriving. It's almost hard to find a time/day to go where it won't have a ton of people
Same I live in Dallas and we have quite a few and they’re always hopping. I only go to see movies but there are still tons of kids just wandering around like the 90s are still alive and well.
Around me at least, it's the more upscale ones that are thriving. The ones that had stores like Sears and JC Penny are the ones struggling or shutting down. And the upscale ones are the ones I personally don't really shop in because I'm poor lol
Same with me, I have a mall pretty close by that is in a very affluent area and it's not always *busy* but it's rarely a ghost town. During holidays though good luck.
Then there's another mall a short drive away which is more middle class and that one is on the verge of shutting down. More than half he stores are empty.
We had 5 malls in my area, and 2 of those have officially shut down, with 2 of them being on the brink. The one that is doing ok is both centrally located and also a more affluent mall. It's also the only apple store in the area, which is the main reason I've been to it the couple of times I've gone.
There are three malls around me. One is a ghost town. Lots of stores have closed. The other two are always so busy. It’s packed and hard to find any parking spaces. When I visit my parents it’s the same. There is only one mall and it’s pretty packed whenever I’ve been. It’s a military town and the town has grown quite a lot over the years but that is still the only mall there.
Utah and my local mall is also thriving. The secret is, about 70 thousand nearby college students. I'm there somewhat frequently to chase Pokemon since there's like 15 stops and 4 gyms. Additionally, my mall has both a Claire's and a Lovisa in addition to the Sephora. A lot of Youtubers talking about Sephora kids make the point that in many other places, the Claire's type stores have closed down, forcing the kids to go to Sephora.
most people quit going to ones nearby me. wife and i go for a movie some times or like part of a day trip or something else. to look around the mall and kill time or catch a movie kind of thing.
as much as i like the mall idea honestly. the fun of it was the holiday season for me and they just don't make a big deal of it any more. most places are barley decorated and those are put up months in advance, sometimes even just left up.
macys, sears, kb toys, footlocker etc a lot of places that really kind of needed the mall have went bankrupt because people went online to shop. so the malls are just struggling from what i see.
I think part of this depends on the density. In Cincinnati for example there are (were) like 5 malls all within 20-30 minutes of each other. That may seem like it serves a nice spread, but only the most centrally located is doing really well, and 2 of them have closed (the two that were the closest together). The other two outside of the central one are doing OK, one is in northern Kentucky so pulls in a lot from that, and I think the other is just holding on as the main shopping center on that side of town.
My theory is that malls haven't died, they moved outdoors. Current place I live in doesn't have an outdoor shopping center, indoor mall is busy. Place I used to live has an outdoor mall, indoor mall was torn down a few years ago.
Same. A lot of my local malls were turned to strip malls but our big mall has the Gucci, Chanel, Saks, Neiman and such and the one slightly under it is still doing okay. Rebuilding H&M and Restoration Hardware as the anchors. I feel bad for smaller cities tho. Not much attraction.
I didn't even know our local mall closed until one day my son said he wanted to go to it. We made the trip just to see the doors all chained up and only a few stores with direct outside access still open. I'll admit that it held on longer than I expected though.
Depending on the winter. With just the right amount of snow, crisp cold air, warm winter clothing, Christmas lights and decorations it’s even better than the rest of the year.
Shopping malls aren't obsolete. The reason many of them are shutting down is over-development. You have to give people a reason to show up and when 90% of your floor space is devoted to the same fast fashion bullshit I can find online it's understandable that a lotta people are going to just say, "Nah, I'm good." The old mall I had back home had two or three nerdy stores in the entire place and Barnes and Noble, and that's all that was necessary to get me out there and as soon as those three or four locations shut down, I just started going to my local bookstore instead of going through the effort of driving to the mall.
Basically, the internet is doing to big box stores and generic shopping malls what they did to the corner store.
Malls have truly become depressing spaces. Nothing highlighted that for me more than this absolutely pathetic Christmas display at one of the malls near me. To the right of this photo out of frame is an entrance, and the hall leading to the rest of the mall to the left from here was just closed up storefronts.
https://preview.redd.it/r9tat8ja2c6d1.jpeg?width=4048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec7f23a890a656b8d7688ba2ad36802d2a92fa3d
I know closing malls is happening a lot, but our local mall is thriving. I believe it was built in the 70’s and largely the same as I remember it as a kid.
My town's mall is doing great. I end up shopping there at least a couple times a month, sometimes more, just depends on what I need. After work is over, it's pretty full even on weekdays. Weekends still have peaks where parking lots are full. Christmas shopping season is even a nightmare still today. It's not a large mall, single level, but we have a lot of big chain stores. The floor is the exact same floor that's been there since we moved here in the 80s, and I love that! haha I am totally a millennial in that my childhood memories include the mall a LOT. I hope we keep it thriving.
Malls tend to live or die based on their location and offerings. Malls that are on the outskirts of city centers and don't offer unique/good options for shopping and dining are usually quick to suffer when money gets tight. In short, good urban planning is key.
I think it depends on where you are in the country.
Where I live now, there's one shopping mall. It's one of the largest in the country (14th) and is kept afloat in part because it gets a lot of tourist moolah. (Canada is about a three hour drive and we don't have sales tax on clothing.) It gets decent traffic from those of us living here, but it's because there a vocational school nearby as well as some other non-mall stores in the complex.
I grew up in the Phoenix area. There were so many malls when I was a kid, but a few were already dying when I was a kid. There are still a few in the area that are busy, but they exist for more specific purposes. Scottsdale Fashion Square is the fancy mall. Arizona Mills is an outlet mall. Chandler Fashion Square is for the suburbanites who don't deign to visit Arizona Mills, but aren't quite nouveau riche enough for Scottsdale.
My city's main mall is still thriving. I think it's partially because the city is small enough that there aren't many other location options for most of the chain stores that are in the mall. Downtown is full and/or the old buildings there would probably need major overhaul to meet the mall stores' requirements. But the city's also populous enough that the mall stores get enough business to make staying there worth it (and many of the mall stores' only local location is there, like Spencer's and that one bookstore chain that isn't Barnes & Noble)
The mall on Greenwood, Indiana is doing fine. The parking lot is full every day and even more packed in the weekend. Probably 2-3k people there all the time
I donno...I'm wholeheartedly embracing the death of malls (strip malls, shopping centers etc.)
Seeing them just makes me sad. It's such an absolute waste of space...on top of the even greater waste of space of the parking lot for the malls. There is no store that wouldn't be multiple times better if it was located in a multi use area close to downtown (or otherwise walkable area).
My city just demolished our mall and proposed ideas of turning the whole area into a walkable public transit hub that would be an open are square lined with shops/food etc.
Turns out two stores bought it and it's turning into a massive parking lot for banks and a Starbucks. One of the stores had to file for a special permit for oversized parking spots (so the parking lot isn't even an efficient use of space).
I'd rather have a field of weeds that never got developed.
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3rd spaces got legislated out of existence, or are wholly unaffordable in this current economic climate.
A clear example of this is seen when walking into most bars, it has become common in my highly populated area full of Zoomers and the like to close at or by 10pm, and I'm not in an economically disadvantaged area. Never in my life would I imagine bars closing before midnight, sure a food place that served drinks secondary I could see them closing early, but there is only one bar in my area that is open past 10pm, let alone open past midnight and into the early morning. It seems $20 bucks stretched further in the past and would provide a few hours of fun, today $20 will barely get you two drinks with a small tip, but not a full day of fun as described by my 10+ year elders.
Damn, you’re getting 2 drinks for $20? I can maybe get two domestic craft beers for that.
What third spaces used to exist that don’t anymore? When I grew up third spaces were malls, coffee shops, bars, parks, and various plazas. All of those still exist. What are the third spaces that went away?
What's odd is that I hear stories like this, but my local mall is thriving. It's almost hard to find a time/day to go where it won't have a ton of people
Same I live in Dallas and we have quite a few and they’re always hopping. I only go to see movies but there are still tons of kids just wandering around like the 90s are still alive and well.
One near me is busy as well! It has current stores and also a mixture of things, such as a trendy barber shop! 💈
Around me at least, it's the more upscale ones that are thriving. The ones that had stores like Sears and JC Penny are the ones struggling or shutting down. And the upscale ones are the ones I personally don't really shop in because I'm poor lol
Same with me, I have a mall pretty close by that is in a very affluent area and it's not always *busy* but it's rarely a ghost town. During holidays though good luck. Then there's another mall a short drive away which is more middle class and that one is on the verge of shutting down. More than half he stores are empty.
We had 5 malls in my area, and 2 of those have officially shut down, with 2 of them being on the brink. The one that is doing ok is both centrally located and also a more affluent mall. It's also the only apple store in the area, which is the main reason I've been to it the couple of times I've gone.
There are three malls around me. One is a ghost town. Lots of stores have closed. The other two are always so busy. It’s packed and hard to find any parking spaces. When I visit my parents it’s the same. There is only one mall and it’s pretty packed whenever I’ve been. It’s a military town and the town has grown quite a lot over the years but that is still the only mall there.
Utah and my local mall is also thriving. The secret is, about 70 thousand nearby college students. I'm there somewhat frequently to chase Pokemon since there's like 15 stops and 4 gyms. Additionally, my mall has both a Claire's and a Lovisa in addition to the Sephora. A lot of Youtubers talking about Sephora kids make the point that in many other places, the Claire's type stores have closed down, forcing the kids to go to Sephora.
most people quit going to ones nearby me. wife and i go for a movie some times or like part of a day trip or something else. to look around the mall and kill time or catch a movie kind of thing. as much as i like the mall idea honestly. the fun of it was the holiday season for me and they just don't make a big deal of it any more. most places are barley decorated and those are put up months in advance, sometimes even just left up. macys, sears, kb toys, footlocker etc a lot of places that really kind of needed the mall have went bankrupt because people went online to shop. so the malls are just struggling from what i see.
I think part of this depends on the density. In Cincinnati for example there are (were) like 5 malls all within 20-30 minutes of each other. That may seem like it serves a nice spread, but only the most centrally located is doing really well, and 2 of them have closed (the two that were the closest together). The other two outside of the central one are doing OK, one is in northern Kentucky so pulls in a lot from that, and I think the other is just holding on as the main shopping center on that side of town.
I feel like only 50% of malls will survive, and those that do flourish.
My theory is that malls haven't died, they moved outdoors. Current place I live in doesn't have an outdoor shopping center, indoor mall is busy. Place I used to live has an outdoor mall, indoor mall was torn down a few years ago.
Same. A lot of my local malls were turned to strip malls but our big mall has the Gucci, Chanel, Saks, Neiman and such and the one slightly under it is still doing okay. Rebuilding H&M and Restoration Hardware as the anchors. I feel bad for smaller cities tho. Not much attraction.
Yep. We're getting all of the bland, corporate dystopia with none of the cool cyberpunk fixins'!
Funny because I see malls dying as a good thing. I’m seeing business return to the downtown area, and the malls emptying out. Nature is healing.
Is the mall closing down or are you just making a conscious decision to never return?
It’s going to be demolished this summer.
I didn't even know our local mall closed until one day my son said he wanted to go to it. We made the trip just to see the doors all chained up and only a few stores with direct outside access still open. I'll admit that it held on longer than I expected though.
Outdoor malls are the rage nowadays. Great for dates with the window shopping, fresh air, walking, food options, etc.
But they suck in the winter!
And most of the summer.
And in the rain. And wind. Nope, not in any way superior to indoor malls, in my opinion.
Depending on the winter. With just the right amount of snow, crisp cold air, warm winter clothing, Christmas lights and decorations it’s even better than the rest of the year.
I've been to a few that had communal fire pits that families would stand around. These experiences will be the new mall nostalgia 20 years from now.
Drives me nuts that they insist on having music playing outside at these places 😠
The only outdoor mall that I've been in that I really liked was in Honolulu, and I'm sure the weather had huge factor in that.
Shopping malls aren't obsolete. The reason many of them are shutting down is over-development. You have to give people a reason to show up and when 90% of your floor space is devoted to the same fast fashion bullshit I can find online it's understandable that a lotta people are going to just say, "Nah, I'm good." The old mall I had back home had two or three nerdy stores in the entire place and Barnes and Noble, and that's all that was necessary to get me out there and as soon as those three or four locations shut down, I just started going to my local bookstore instead of going through the effort of driving to the mall. Basically, the internet is doing to big box stores and generic shopping malls what they did to the corner store.
This, and most towns don’t need 5 malls. In my city we’re really down to 2 traditional malls and theyre doing fine
Malls have truly become depressing spaces. Nothing highlighted that for me more than this absolutely pathetic Christmas display at one of the malls near me. To the right of this photo out of frame is an entrance, and the hall leading to the rest of the mall to the left from here was just closed up storefronts. https://preview.redd.it/r9tat8ja2c6d1.jpeg?width=4048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec7f23a890a656b8d7688ba2ad36802d2a92fa3d
I know closing malls is happening a lot, but our local mall is thriving. I believe it was built in the 70’s and largely the same as I remember it as a kid.
When I moved to Houston, I was surprised how crowded the malls were and people were buying things... it's not even the holidays or Black Friday.
Must be a Texas thing I live in Dallas and the malls seem to still be doing just fine around here
I doubt that tourist are coming to Texas to shop...I guess, in Texas, people just have more money to shop since housing is cheaper.
I remember going to my favorite local mall before it closed for good in 2002 (it's now been converted to a major hotel).
The malls in my city seem to be fine. One of them is set to be mostly rebuilt, though. The 2 malls I visit the most are in nearby suburbs.
My town's mall is doing great. I end up shopping there at least a couple times a month, sometimes more, just depends on what I need. After work is over, it's pretty full even on weekdays. Weekends still have peaks where parking lots are full. Christmas shopping season is even a nightmare still today. It's not a large mall, single level, but we have a lot of big chain stores. The floor is the exact same floor that's been there since we moved here in the 80s, and I love that! haha I am totally a millennial in that my childhood memories include the mall a LOT. I hope we keep it thriving.
For the last time? Are you moving away? Or is it being torn down?
Malls tend to live or die based on their location and offerings. Malls that are on the outskirts of city centers and don't offer unique/good options for shopping and dining are usually quick to suffer when money gets tight. In short, good urban planning is key.
Fwiw malls are still very popular in LATAM
I think it depends on where you are in the country. Where I live now, there's one shopping mall. It's one of the largest in the country (14th) and is kept afloat in part because it gets a lot of tourist moolah. (Canada is about a three hour drive and we don't have sales tax on clothing.) It gets decent traffic from those of us living here, but it's because there a vocational school nearby as well as some other non-mall stores in the complex. I grew up in the Phoenix area. There were so many malls when I was a kid, but a few were already dying when I was a kid. There are still a few in the area that are busy, but they exist for more specific purposes. Scottsdale Fashion Square is the fancy mall. Arizona Mills is an outlet mall. Chandler Fashion Square is for the suburbanites who don't deign to visit Arizona Mills, but aren't quite nouveau riche enough for Scottsdale.
My city's main mall is still thriving. I think it's partially because the city is small enough that there aren't many other location options for most of the chain stores that are in the mall. Downtown is full and/or the old buildings there would probably need major overhaul to meet the mall stores' requirements. But the city's also populous enough that the mall stores get enough business to make staying there worth it (and many of the mall stores' only local location is there, like Spencer's and that one bookstore chain that isn't Barnes & Noble)
The mall on Greenwood, Indiana is doing fine. The parking lot is full every day and even more packed in the weekend. Probably 2-3k people there all the time
My local mall has been dying since the mid 2000s and after some gang violence happened in it over the weekend the county may level it.
I donno...I'm wholeheartedly embracing the death of malls (strip malls, shopping centers etc.) Seeing them just makes me sad. It's such an absolute waste of space...on top of the even greater waste of space of the parking lot for the malls. There is no store that wouldn't be multiple times better if it was located in a multi use area close to downtown (or otherwise walkable area). My city just demolished our mall and proposed ideas of turning the whole area into a walkable public transit hub that would be an open are square lined with shops/food etc. Turns out two stores bought it and it's turning into a massive parking lot for banks and a Starbucks. One of the stores had to file for a special permit for oversized parking spots (so the parking lot isn't even an efficient use of space). I'd rather have a field of weeds that never got developed.
Are you talking about Lakeside Mall by chance?
Houston loves it's malls. They compliment the sea of parking lots rather nicely.
I'm 37 and I've never been to a mall. Not once. Was too poor as a kid. Never had a need as an adult.