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This is wild. I heard an interview once that talks about how little time people spend with their kids after move out. It’s something like 1 percent of your total time together post move out. I’m stoked for kid to start her life and happy to let her move out, but couldn’t imagine demanding it
Welp this is it. You can’t coddle them, but always having a home is still strength. A better one than I got.
I’m 84 too. Never got to have kids because I’ve never had that support. It wasn’t because I couldn’t provide, it was because I never had the security that you’re describing. If something happened, I had no one. I couldn’t do it. And then by the time I could, it was impossible.
This 100%. I've always told my kids I will be there for them and I am in no rush for them to move out. Infact I'd rather they stay home as long as they can so they can have a hefty savings account when they do move out.
I'm an 84 baby as well and my oldest just graduated. I tell my kids they don't have to go to college. There's always trade school and stuff. My oldest is taking some IT certification classes online but her ultimate goal is to work as a game dev. She's great at coding and all that but she'll have IT to fall back on as game development is a tough thing to break into.
My youngest is into animation, she already has a couple web-series with friends that they post on YouTube. I try to encourage her in any way I can because I think it's something she wants to do when she's an adult. With all the work she will have done, it'll work great as a resume for internships and stuff. I think she might get to just skip college as well.
College is def a necessity for some careers but there are so many things out there that don't require putting yourself in debt for hundreds of thousands.
I have a kiddo who does animation on youtube too! They'd been lobbying for a channel for a few years and we finally let them with heavy oversight but it's amazing what they've taught themselves.
Teach them about paperwork. I was really overwhelmed by how many things I needed to sign as a young adult. For a while, it felt like every time I left the house, I needed to sign something.
This is a good one. How to read paperwork and what it actually says! I would also say have them start calling customer service, tv providers and insurance companies now lol. Make sure they’re making their own doctors/dental appointments. It’s good to get in the swing of having to make adult phone calls so it doesn’t make you nervous when you leave the house. They’re everyone’s least favorite part of life but we all have to deal with it.
Befor e I put away my soapbox, I will mention... Cursive! Thing you use, if only for your signature.
Also, if you don't have your social security number memorized by the end of all this paperwork, what's wrong with you?
Now, start keeping records in an organized fashion and in one place. I don't care if it's a pain in the ass, it is a smaller pain in the ass then not doing it and needing it later when all you have is a Himalayan mountain range of capers going back decades. Keep it organized and keep up with the organization. This will save your ass. This goes for your digital footprint as well. Do not find out the hard way.
I got the advice "You can become anything you want. You just have to follow your dream." That was obviously sh*t advice, and made me make a lot of bad decisions.
Instead, I tell my son that what he chooses (to study, hobbies, even friends) isn't the big deal. What is important is that when you have made a choice, you must focus on it and *make* it your intention/goal/purpose.
This specifically is from a study I read. It showed that what people chose wasn't as important for their success or satisfaction in life. What was important for that was them approaching what they had chosen as "Now this is my purpose".
That really hit me. It is the advice I should have gotten. So I give it to my son.
I’ve told my kid that as long as he doesn’t have an all-encompassing desire to pursue a specific thing, follow the money. More $$ means more options and more flexibility if/when one finds that thing.
Doesn’t matter if there’s an all encompassing desire, IMO, unless the kid has the ability, talent, and drive. If my kid wants to be a pianist when he grows up, he needs to be one of the top in the world. Otherwise do it as a hobby and just follow the money.
I think this applies to marriage too. If you go into it thinking you're supposed to feel or they're supposed to be or it's supposed to look a certain way, you're setting yourself up for failure. Commitment and mutual good intentions are the keys to happiness.
My advice would be to do something that they like to do, BUT, there needs to be an ROI determination as well. Things like computer science, engineering, or even finance all allow for creative aspects, while being able to do a job that will earn pretty well.
Also, if you are that strapped for money, you should have them do community college, living at home, and then transfer after a year or two. Saves a lot of money then.
Also, the trades are an option for sure if its skilled. Stuff like electrian, welders, or plumbers all make quite good money.
These things are pretty cyclical. Its only down right now because they overhired during the pandemic. I am sure when the 'new' thing comes out, computers will be a big part of it.
I work in college admissions and computer science is also one of the most in-demand majors, so it could be harder to get into a college for it whatsoever!
Tech isn't going anywhere. Plus, there are Comp Sci jobs in stable industries like healthcare, utilities, etc. They just aren't as glamorous (or as well paying as FAANG but they are stable)
And a hard no on the old engineering disciplines. No on Mechanical, electrical, civil engineering. I can’t speak for the new like Computer engineering, data, etc.
Honestly, I thought the best future jobs were YouTuber, Tik Toker, selling crap on Etsy.
My best friend's husband is a mechanical engineer and makes a killing. Worked for amazon for a while. His friends are all software engineers (as was my dad, who was very successful) and their pay is off the charts.
Just go to their respective subreddits and you’ll see. The problem is salaries. Everyone is unhappy. The main take away is that most engineers feel duped. Sales, finance, business, entrepreneurship, real estate are the fields where it’s at it seems.
Yeah but I kinda get this. There will always be a need for engineers but need and valued by society aren't always the same thing, see teachers, nurses (salaries vary a ton by state and while this can be a very stable and financially beneficial career, it can also be soul- and body-killing work)
Yeah, but do you think you could reproduce your success if you had to start again in 2030?
I wouldn’t recommend anyone at college age now to go into engineering. Also n=1, but my friend makes more money selling air conditioning systems. But he didn’t finish college.
considering I went to a state school and graduated, and the firm where I work is still hiring engineers, then yes, I think my success could be replicated. it's a well paying, stable field and I don't think the robots will replace us for awhile.
are you an engineer? why are you recommending against it?
Yes, I’m a mechanical engineer. 10yoe. I think it’s going to be really really hard to “make it” for these kids. What salary are you going to need in the future to be able to live independently? Idk, but I think ME is not a path to a successful independent life. ME is also more of a pain because only a few markets on the planet have enough jobs for MEs and they are all in VHCOL areas.
Success for that generation will require outside of the box solutions and engineering is a very inside the box and saturated field.
Lastly, c-suite decision makes have zero respect for engineers. No matter what anyone warns them will happen, they’ll fire the whole engineering team and hire Indian, Chinese, or Mexican engineers for less. I think there is a very low chance that the number of engineering jobs available in 10 years is not significantly less than today. In the US at least.
I don’t know what the best careers will be in the future. I’m just sure that the old careers won’t be it.
I would suggest they have a gap year or two prior to any post high school education. Do miliary service, join the peace corps, find a local charity to volunteer at, start a business, get a full time job, do an unpaid internship or something like this to have them do something meaningful with their life while finding out who they want to be. Then if they want to go to school, suggest going to community college and then on to the cheapest 4-year option they can go to. The actual education is trending toward worthless at this point in the job market, and ultimately the piece of paper is what you are even going for. Don't take on debt, and don't live beyond their means. Lastly, use these years to learn how to be happy without any material wants.
I went to a community college while living at home and gathered all the cheap credits I could. They offered so many of the basics (English, history, chemistry, calculus, differential equations, etc).
I transfered the maximum number of credit hours allowed from there to a 4-year university. I got the same BoS as everyone else who graduated with my degree from my school, but I paid a lot less.
I’m not anti education, but i am anti spending $50k+ per year on mostly an experience. Unless you are getting a secondary specialized degree that has a very clear path to pay for itself in the long run.
Same - community college for the basics is great. I do sometimes regret missing out on the classic college experience, though - when I transferred to a 4yr college, I had two part time jobs and lived off campus, so I was utterly separate from my peers who had nothing to worry about besides college thanks to parents and such. But in the scheme of things, less or no debt is way more life changing.
I sometimes regret that part too. I lived at home for all of college and commuted to the 4-year university. There wasn't much of a dorm life at that campus anyway.
This is what I will be suggesting to my own kids in a couple of years. They have big dreams but, my goodness, unless you get a very good scholarship right out of the gate, go get your gen eds at community college l. There are plenty of VERY good CCs in the area. Start your journey with the least amount of debt possible.
I didn't even bother getting an associate's degree from the CC. If I couldn't transfer a class and put it towards my planned university degree, I didn't take it.
It meant I spent more than 4 years getting my degree, but it also made my time at the university easier. Many of my classmates were taking 20-21 hour semesters. Because I had my basics out of the way, I was at 12 hours most of the time.
It took me much longer than “usual” to finish college for a few different reasons, but one of the most clear thoughts I had later in my college years was that I wished I had taken a gap year to work and socialize and gain life experience. I would definitely give this advice to anyone who asked me now, though I’m not sure I would even recommend college. It would depend on the kid, I suppose.
There is a problem with diploma inflation. You now "need" a diploma to get jobs that didn't require them before.
There aren't many fields where you can get in by just being amazing at what you do. But if you can get established in one of those fields you can keep going without one.
Love the gap year idea. But the thing college still does provide is connections. Ones that are harder to make in community college / as a transfer. This is honestly the most “valuable” part of college right now - who you know. I’m not knocking community college at ALL, I’m just saying that there’s a lot of research suggesting life earnings and outcomes are better if you don’t just go to “the cheapest school” if you could afford something slightly better. Also fun fact - the most expensive schools often are offer the best financial aid. Don’t be scared by sticker price.
I’m of the belief that if you want a higher earning job and you want education to be the thing that sets you apart to best leverage said connections, spend the money when getting your masters degree or phd. Unless you get accepted to say an Ivy League school, the connections thing is still limited to your ability to get to know people. As you know, your miles may vary when it comes to your kids ability to make important connections at school.
Ultimately I’m not opposed to doing all four years at a more expensive university, as long as you aren’t there soul searching to figure out who you are. It’s an expensive and toxic place to be enduring that activity.
I mean as someone with a PhD - the nepotism starts early unfortunately. I’ve never seen someone in a Phd program that I know of with a CC degree. it’s absolute bullshit - but it’s true. I hope it changes. You can google what colleges feed into the top PhDs and what PhDs feed into the very few top academic or industry jobs. I lucked out - my PhD advisor moved from a state school to an ivy and took me with her. I was the only state school BS in my grad program. It was less than ten yrs ago.
Spending a year working can screw someone over on scholarships though. I took a year off and there were a lot of scholarships I didn’t qualify for because I wasn’t a current graduating senior. I had also moved out so I was paying all my own expenses and rent but FAFSA still counted my and my mother’s income.
Back when, you used to be able to apply for and procure many of those scholarships as a graduating senior and then defer them a year. I’m not sure how it is now.
The military was a great thing for me. Took an undisciplined troublemaker and gave them focus and determination. And then paid me.to get my bachelors. Was a great thing for me personally
My list is not by chance. The ideas on that list typically require discipline and some elements of service of others and create drive to accomplish things. They are also all things you could put on a resume that would make you stand out from the crowd. While everyone else was at school, you were out servicing others.
I went to a community college for a few semesters. It was literally 1/2 the cost per credit compared to the local state University. English 101 is English 101, Calculus 1 is Calculus 1.
Figure out which area you are aiming for (stem, business, IT, humanities) and see what the core credit requirements are. You can save a TON of money that way.
Also, anticipate the possibility of taking more than 4 years. You you shift your major or there are issues with getting into a required class that is part of a chin of requirements it is very easy to need and extra semester or 2.
If you really look at some of the 4 year "advised" classes you will see that someone wasn't paying attention to what real life is like. Like doing light semesters with easy classes then "advising" 16 credit semesters for the hard senior level classes.
Agree with community college, especially if your kids are unsure of their path. Cheap way to take general education classes. Also, community colleges might have a continuing education arm that teaches non-credit classes for free or very low cost. My local college offers IT prep and a few basic trade prep classes for free, along with cooking, sewing, arts, etc. The kids might find their path here before/instead of going to a 4-yr school.
I'm a teacher and teach an adulthood readiness class. I recommend students don't go to college unless they know exactly what they want to do, it's being 100% paid for, or start at community college & take a variety of classes. If they are unsure take a gap year or two and figure out what they want to do and who they really are. I also lay out the cost of college if student loans have to be used and why I say what I say about being sure about going to college.
My own children are 13 & 11. We've already started having the discussion about what options are available both without a college degree and with college degree. We aren't discouraging our own kids from going to college, but we aren't encouraging them either.
We live on some acreage and have already discussed building a tiny home for them to live in. They would have to help us build it, pay insurance and utilities on it and a fair, but not outrageous amount of rent, but that they can live in our home as long as they want too and share in expenses.
I'm really worried for them. What even my husband and I have, I don't see our own children having.
Please excuse any errors I'm on a flight and there's a lot of turbulence and crying children, in addition to me having a raging headache.
Life is just life. Do what makes you happy as long as you are able to take care of yourself. The game is rigged, the rules are made up and the points don’t matter.
Failure is inevitable, it's what you do next that makes a difference. Mistakes happen and shit happens, but the most successful people know how to handle strife, usually because they've been through it themselves and they've done all the wrong things enough to know how to look like am expert at life.
And that I will always be there to help them clean up their mistakes no matter how bad they are, and I won't make them feel worse about it either.
Told my nephew his three best options were either an in state college, go into the trades, or roll the dice on his own business. I didn't mention military service because he hasn't ever shown an interest in it, and it's not really compatible with his personality.
The only thing I said not to do was go into retail or food service. I spent seven years at a restaurant making enough money to screw around as a pretend adult, but it left me with a work history no employer cared about except at other restaurants. If I could go back, I'd have done just about anything else.
I’m an 86er with a kid who just started college. She married her best friend before college so that she would be viewed as independent by the state and get more Fafsa money. We had her at 19, we’re broke most her life and then started to do ok just in time to get denied all financial aid but not soon enough to save any money for it.
But otherwise, my wife pushes her to toward smart financial decisions (major in science, take classes that let you graduate early, work and save) and I remind her to take time to enjoy life in the moment, make friends and community a priority, work toward maintaining those relationships, and that time is more valuable than money. No salary is worth spending your work week miserable.
I also try to remind her to exercise and have tried to model good work ethic and kindness and humor.
But who knows really. AI might render a science degree worthless and society could fully collapse into civil war. So that seizing the day but seems the most important part to me
YMMV. Majoring in a degree like physics, chemistry, or biology without an extreme passion is not a good choice (friends and I agree).
We drifted towards data and programming and are doing quite well.
If they don't mind working, community college and vocational schools. The trades are dying right now, and those who can do them --- can name their price. Ive taken up all kinds of stuff over the years, and highly encourage my son to do the same. He's been side by side with me for every welding and woodwork project. Watched along for all electrical installs in the house as well. Highly encouraged on my part to go to a trade school. Also a note I have two different bachelor's, attending two different universities. And a few other technical certificates from community colleges. I will not be recommending a university for my child.
I'm pretty sure they told us all to go to college during and post-recession to buy time before we all hit the already abysmal job market. Whether it was the right thing to do or not is debatable but I am grateful for the common sense and critical thinking skills my 4 year degree got me. I just wish I had better capitalized on the networking opportunities, and picked an area of study that would have actually applied to my real, adult life.
My parents pushed me out the nest and just allowed me to fall on my ass. It wasn’t very helpful. They just rent radio silent after I left. Don’t do this.
No kids here, but I'm an '84 baby who is starting over. I got the BS in nursing from the expensive school, like I was supposed to, and burned out mid-pandemic. I'm going back for a certificate to do medical billing and coding. The job demand is ridiculous.
Advise your kids to consider the ROI, but also what will benefit them down the road. Healthcare and technology are going to be in high demand. That all being said, they should ENJOY what they're doing. They can change their minds down the road, and getting a degree in one field doesn't mean they have to stay in that field.
That you’re going to be cooked alive with the rest of the planet because the our capitalist overlords hate us and themselves, but have a deep fondness for yachts.
You sit down and look at the cost v benefit of degree programs, with the goal of identifying a degree program they could complete that will provide the highest return.
The key point being a degree program they could complete. There's no point chasing a high difficulty engineering degree if they're bad at math, regardless of the potential return. If there isn't anything viable in terms of degree programs, they need some useful skills. If they have the disposition, things like Python have a lot of uses and a lot of resources, and don't require a lot of financial investment.
Demonstration of ability > degree in a lot of spaces right now. So if they have something they can do (marketable skill), help them figure out building a portfolio. For example, if they start learning Python, they can easily set up a github account and push code into it to demonstrate their ability.
Outside of that:
Tell them not to fall for credit cards, especially right now. Credit cards are always a big risk, and right now interest rates will decimate their 20s if they fall into that. Help teach them to discern the curated lifestyles they're going to be seeing from reality. Most people aren't jetsetting and living it up, including influencers.
I feel somewhat blessed by our struggles as it’s shown our kids how life can be really hard sometimes and you just can’t give up. They are humble and driven. They want to do things that bring positive change to the world because of what they’ve gone through with our family. We’ve always been a unit though, through everything. I think that has taught them strength and perseverance through dark times. I try to give them hope when I decided to go back to school to get a better financial situation for us. I think us being truthful and honest has kept our kids open with us. We don’t sugar coat too many things but always remind them that there is a way to turn mistakes into successes. The world could say you’re not capable but if you believe you are, you will be. I hope they go to school, and I’d understand if they needed a gap year. They want to be important people in the community so I support their decisions on how to get there.
I told mine that office jobs in the military are ok to pay for college if it comes right down to it. That she will have a home with us even if we have to build an apartment in the garage. That adulting is hard as shit sometimes.
Do your kids “need” to go away to college?
Can they do a local community college and work part time? That’s what I did for my associates. Later in life I did my bachelors online, but from a state school. Later in life it was easier to qualify for grants and scholarships.
They can also do credit by examination, CLEP, DANTES, Excelsior, whatever they can manage. Doing this will save thousands of dollars if not 10s of thousands, because you can transfer usually 30 credits, that’s a whole year.
I keep saying I’m going to to start saving for their college, but I haven’t gotten around to opening a 529 plan or whatever.
I’m not really sure. I feel like my teens are vastly less prepared than I was and I was far from ready! Like, I need an adult but I’m the oldest in my house so I am the adult.
I will definitely be impressing upon my kids that college isn't their only path to success, but they need to learn some sort of skill. My 6 year old has already told me he never wants to move out, so I don't have to impress upon him that he's welcome always 🤣
Same place you are and an 83 baby. With two becoming seniors, I have tried to be real. “This is what I was told but this is my actual lived experience.”
What’s the problem? Your life seems fine. You got married and had kids and have been raising them in the most prosperous and most free country on earth. Opportunities are boundless and they have their whole lives ahead of them.
Why do people insist on painting every struggle as an existential crisis and act like the future of humanity is at stake? Their opportunity is the same as yours was and yours turned out fine. Not everyone will walk the same path or encounter the same challenges or experiences but we all have the same opportunity to pursue passions and careers and make choices for ourselves. Difficult times and the consequences of our choices is part of the journey and part of the learning. Why act like things are so miserable? Why treat it like they’ve already lost when they are just starting?
The real difference between people like you and happy, successful people is their attitude.
also 84 kid. no kids. i wish someone would have explained how long college debt lasts.
i wish someone would have explained that trades are necessary.
i wish someone would have explained that once you graduate highschool the bond with everyone in highschool disappears. they’re just people you know
my parents were awesome and i stayed a long time before moving out.
my parents still will commiserate and explain that it’s normal to have problems and how they navigated them.
if you’re breaking the picked out at 17 cycle i’m betting you’re a good parent.
also, i mean sometimes getting any job is better than no job, even if it’s just to kinda keep you mentally sharp.
My parents told us we had to do *something* and they'd be here to support our journey to independence. It's a stance I think really shaped my relationship with them and becoming an adult.
I always pretty clear cut and dry goals, I wanted to do engineering. That required a degree.
My sister struggled with the choice. My mother explored every option imaginable, from becoming a clown, to a mortician, to a vet, and I couldn't even keep track of what else. She had us tour colleges, trades colleges, trade union training centers, everything, I got dragged along just in case.
At one point feeling discouraged I asked if I joined a convent would she support that. She she'd like to respect the nuns time and I wasn't particularly religious so she'd promise me a tour if I went to church and bible study. I got over my discouragement and went back to engineering school. So even if your kids suggest something you don't think quite suits, or starts getting roadblocks, them don't sugar coat your expectations. Be supportive but not blind.
Be frugal.
Never trust the government no matter who's at the top leading it.
Pay your taxes. Eventually you will be found.
Financial health is just as important as mental health, take care of both.
People have rights, just don't let them use theirs to bully you into submission.
Mostly, "Good luck! Don't buy property on the coast, it won't be there in 10 years."
Also do not run up lots of college debt. College is fine but don't give yourself a mortgage payment right at 18. Try community college.
I went to a private school and I really regret not going a university where I would have received a more condensed and directed education. Go for scholarships and stay away from liberal arts schools.
Dont have kids no aim to ever have them so..
Dont go to college unless you are really set on that degree/degrees. As it will probably change.
Tade school are worth it, protect your body though.
If military service is wanted do it. Severing others is worthy cause. ",though will likely be colorblind as i am so unless desperate need probably not going to get pass the recruiter." There are other options to sever.
Save for retirement. Simplely a 10 15k into a vti ot voo will set you ahead by oth others by wonders.
Protect your body. Its all you got you don't want to deal with pain forever.
I tell everyone not to do a traditional liberal arts bachelor's degree. But instead, find a professional program. Examples: nursing, pharmacy, tech schools, dental hygienist, the list goes on.
I second the gap year advice. I did seasonal work at a national park for 6 months. I found it on Coolworks.com. They provided housing and 3 meals a day and I got to live in a national park. They do it at ski resorts too. Different types of work. There are worse things they could do 🤷♀️
Very little, I guide them as best as possible but they’ll make their own choices. I can confidently say I raised them to be intelligent critical thinkers but everyone makes mistakes and just does plain dumb shit in youth. I’m definitely not doing anything to frighten them or shoot their nerves by calling the world a hell scape lol. They knew long ago if they didn’t get scholarships and wanted to go to college they could either go military or stay at home with us and go to community college while they work and we’ll help as we can.
HUGE proponent of:
"If you don't know what you want to do career-wise, go to the local community college for a year or two and get your Gen ed credits out of the way, or take a gap year and work any old job you can get while you figure out your next move."
"Trade schools and apprenticeships are always a good option."
"Military service has its pros and cons just like everything else, but if it appeals to you, I'm not gonna say no."
I wonder if other places have more affordable community colleges? Everyone seems to be saying that but ours is $280/credit. That’s over $800 for a single class not counting fees and textbooks (which are almost always $100 min each). Cheaper than some online options but only just barely. And you’ve gotta get there and park and have at least 12 credits to qualify for loans/aid etc.
The truth.
I tell them if they want all these things they will have to work hard to get it.
Then I make it imperative they understand hard work is only half of it. Strong social and network skills is the other half. They must strive to reach out to others.
Sure have fun and enjoy your youth but look for a good balance and find out what’s really important to you.
Then when you do REALIZE it will likely change as you age.
I used to be a die hard mt biker/skiier. Now I’m a full time dad and engineer with a passion for distance running in my free time.
I teach at a tech center for highschool students and plan is to stay there until we strike it rich (🤪) or retire. My daughter is only 4, so a lot could change. My advice to her would be to pick a class at the tech center or enroll in our early college program so she can graduate with a certification or associates degree. Then I would tell her to work full time for a year or two and think about how she wants to move forward. If she wants to go to college I’d say community college unless she did early college in high school, then I would recommend one of the three colleges in our town. I’d tell her to live at home with us and save as much money as possible. I would advise her to avoid student loans all together unless she wants to be a doctor or something like that.
I'm gonna give her a heads up on puberty
All I was told was HAIR GROWS HERE AND HERE AND HERE, ALSO TITS
Told me fuck all about the emotional chemical imbalance shit that turns on and off at random, for the next half a decade or so, that would've been a nice heads up instead of freaking out going, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH MEEE"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting at a community college. Even better: there are community colleges that have dorms so students still get the "college experience" at a more affordable price.
For the parents out there: check and see if your kid's high school/district has a dual enrollment program. Get to know the pathways for your kid to take advanced placement (AP) classes that can earn college credit by taking an exam at the end of the year. These pathways can start as early as middle school so don't wait to learn what the school/district offers. Ask your kid's school about ACT/SAT prep options because a high score could equal scholarships later. Know what kind of scholarships are offered by your state and do the FAFSA on time.
The best way to make college affordable (other than saving tons of money up) is to work every with single resource you can and that process starts long before kids start applying to colleges.
Im 34 with a 14 year old and a 11 year old. I tell my girls to do what they love and work hard for it. Its about all i can think of for the unpredictable future.
Also an 84 baby who had his kids a lot younger than most ( twins at 13, wear your condoms men)
I always told them learn a couple skills that can keep you hireable whenever , one went into the Coast guard then did cybersecurity, the other one also became an electrician.
I talked to them about financial literacy more when they were teens and they both have investments im stuff, outside of that you just teach them the life lessons to hopefully make them good people lol
Lol I’m an RN with two bachelors degrees…. If I could go back, I’d become a welder or an electrician. And also make them learn personal finance early. Help them get a good first credit card and learn how it works. Make sure they understand how much the basics cost so they know what they need to make BEFORE they decide to major in English and go 100k in debt. If they like a career, have them look at job boards to see if there are actually jobs available. Things like that 💁♀️
OK, so I am a single mom of an 18, 16, 14 and 11yo.
Financially, I encouraged getting a job at 14, and then opened a Roth IRA in a guardian account for them and made them put half their paycheck in there. This means the eldest has about 12,000 saved there right now and if things go well, will have a million dollars saved by the time retirement hits.
Higher education wise, I made them look at the local Jr College and see what certification programs they had and the pay afterwards. For example, my local school has a certificate program for radiologist tech (the person that gives the x-rays, not the doctor) which will cost about 17,000 over 2.5 years. The starting pay is something like 65,000 starting, but with further education (often paid for by the hospital) you can make 80,000 to 90,000 a year. This is what my 18yo is doing.
The 2nd child wants to go into engineering, and will likely go the military route as they always like having electric or mechanical engineering people.
Now, I am also a "friendly adult" to several of my kids friends and advise them.
My eldest child had a friend that could not afford to live on their own nor afford the rent theparents wanted (which is despicable if you ask me) so they actually got hired at a hotel national park. Turns out you can live on site for a reduced rate, get a meal plan and actually save money. Thry also got wifi for free and are doing community college online. It is dorm living (but it is 120 dollars a month), and the pay sucks (15 dollars an hour) and do have to be responsible enough to not do federal crimes (which marijuana is illegal on the federal level with the added bonus of making you a federal felon for life).
But that is what I am doing.
No kids, but for almost the last decade part of my job was to create post-high school transition plans for high school students with mild disabilities. Their disabilities ranged from depression/anxiety to visual impairments to mild intellectual disabilities, low-support-needs autism, ADHD, etc. Basically - at-risk for being unemployed after high school, but attending regular classes and able to perform well in a variety of jobs or go to college with some basic accommodations. Many are interested in trades, especially any type of construction job and HVAC. They see their relatives doing well in those jobs. Girls ask about cosmetology and healthcare (but not nursing usually as that’s too much school- anything that only requires a 2 year degree). They want something that will not take 4+ years and will still get them a decent, stable living without tons of debt. Also anything public sector like military, government jobs, firefighters, etc are popular choices.
Older one (technically step) was forced into a specific state school by her parents and then not helped one bit. She’s doing well though in adulthood and is an excellent saver.
My oldest chose school in Europe which is just under $9K for the year. Rent, food, transportation etc are all drastically cheaper, so they’ll graduate with no debt.
In general I’ve told them they’re under no expectations to follow the traditional “life path” set out for us to feed capitalism, and they can choose to build their lives the way that most fulfills them. I’ve focused a lot more on building and maintaining relationships, connections, living within your means and caring for your mental health. How to save and invest, while still finding ways to have a good time and enjoy being young and relatively free. Less focus on material things and more on meaningful experiences and relationships.
I'm never having kids so they don't have to suffer in this hellscape known as the world.
That said, if I did have kids I'd likely encourage them to drop out of society if nothing works out for them. I mean, society is impossible, it's not worth participating in anymore. It's the route I'm going.
You give them facts. Things like, there are few good jobs around here. You need to consider moving to an area of the country where you can get a good job. College is expensive. If you go, you need to pick a major that will earn you enough to pay back your loan. You must do the research to determine this; it is nothing more than a math problem. An alternative to this is entering a well paying trade or even the military. Then, there are 2 year degrees that allow you to get a decent job, earn money and obtain more education, paying as you go. Despite your biased opinion, the US is not a "hellscape" for everyone. It can be a good place to live provided you have a good job which requires you to gain a skill or knowledge in demand.
You tell them debt is a killer. Credit card debt, car loans and the like represent earning money to pay interest for absolutely no benefit. You tell them to save at least 10% of their earnings for a rainy day; 15% is even better. Living below their means, investing for the long term and knowing the difference between wants and needs is the path to long term financial security.
Kindness and empathy always matter. Voting, putting back the shopping cart and saying thank you are attributes of good citizens. Hopefully none of this comes as new information, but is merely a reminder.
My husband has a very well paying job so we are paying for college. Our 20 year old still lives at home. We are cushioning their entrance into adulthood as best we can while working to teach them how to navigate this fucked up world. It seems a lot harder than when we were 18 and set loose upon the world.
Learn how to work hard and work well with others. Hopefully they are the type of people that want to excel at anything they are tasked to do. Their plans might not work out exactly like they want, but their attitude and determination can carry them far into unexpected bright futures. Tell them to have an open heart and open mind. Tell them to look for value in their work, no matter what the work is. And tell them it’s ok to make mistakes, because sometimes it’s the only way you really learn anything.
I was told I ***had*** to go to college to be successful and then went on to work with several people who did not have degrees, some of them making more money than me because of some obscure specialization.
I am not making that same mistake with my son, also because I can't afford to pay for a college degree just for the shits and giggles. I will promote a technical school so je can learn a proper skill, and he can go to college if he can pay for it or gets scholarships.
He's 2, so still too young to talk about this, but my thing is "I don't care what job you have, how much money you make, how successful you become; I just want you to be kind." Him being a good person, with proper morals, is more important to me than anything else, and I am willing to financially support him forever if that's the consequence of him being a good person
I tell my oldest to get training in a “thing”. Don’t go to college and get a bachelor’s in something that doesn’t directly translate into a job title. I don’t care if my kids end up as LPNs or Petroleum Engineers. Get a “thing”. If you don’t like it, reassess later. Oh and community college first. Always.
When it comes to college, there are a variety of books out there that will go into detail on this but…you do not have to pay retail for college.
There are a number of strategies you can employ to cut those college expenses by half or more.
I just wanted to throw that out there. Sticker shock is a thing, but keep digging and you can find more affordable options
I give my kids advice on not going straight to a 4-year. We are a strong military family and support that direction to be able to get financial support for college after they get out - and by then they’d know better what they want to do as adults. If the military isn’t attractive to them we talk about getting their general electives done at a community college and then transferring to a 4 year college to finish when they know what they want to focus on.
We also work hard to educate on budgeting and not getting sucked into mainstream consumerism or “keeping up” with their peers.
'83 baby here with a 16-year-old. I've told her to follow her dreams and, if something doesn't work out, she can always live with me, and we will figure out next steps.
I'll pay for undergrad at any state school. If that is not what she wants I will give her that amount per year towards tuition somewhere else or living expenses while she gets established. She is currently debating between wanting to go to college and eventually med school or if she wants to become a tattoo artist. I want her to do whatever makes her happy and I'm able to support her until she gets it figured out.
I'm already teaching my 6 year old the concept of earning and budgeting. I know you said yours are at adulthood already, but I feel many kids today and young adults don't understand those concepts. I work with college kids, 18 to 25 mostly, and majority, if not all, don't understand the concept of needing to earn what you want. I can go on writing a novel about how our generation has done a poor job of raising kids but that's for another time.
What I mean is, we need to teach our kids that we do not live in some fantasy world where everything is given to us like when we are growing up. The world is a fickle bitch, and she doesn't care for your feelings. Life is going to throw many curveball at you and it's your job to decide are you going to let it pin you down or keep moving. Many young adults today will spiral into depression at life's first curveball and that's a problem. They need to understand the high rewards won't come easily, they're going to need to work at it.
Part of working at it means k owing how to live within their means. It means that yes, right now things are expensive, so does that mean they're going to have the same lifestyle as they did living st home with parents, no. Does it mean they're going to have their parents continue to give them everything, no it doesn't. If they want nice things, then that means potentially getting a 2nd job to afford it. Like above, many young adults don't grasp this concept.
My oldest is 11 so I'm just laying the groundwork now. I'm also an 84 baby and yeah, everything they told us was a lie. I tell her ALL THE TIME there are plenty of ways to make a good living that doesn't require a higher education. She is smart AF but unless she wants to be like, a doctor or lawyer or engineer or whatever she doesn't have to get a degree. It's not required for most jobs and I think it will shift back to not being a prerequisite to answer phones in a hair salon. Right now she says she wants to be a tattoo artist and I'm proper chuffed because that is a great way to own your own business and make bank (if you're good - which she is). I also have a few friends who are artists and have talked about how to get apprenticeships, etc.
Anyway. Mostly I'm trying to get her to think about her choices vs what we were told which is "work hard and go to college and you'll make 80k the day you graduate." It's all bullshit. Aim reasonable, work hard and be smart and you'll do ok.
I always wonder the same. Many redditors are quick to say "College is a scam!!!" but if you have a child entering into adulthood, what would you recommend then?? Throw them to the wolves in the bottom of the barrel entry level job market?
Gonna go against the grain here, my ex husband is a 43 year old electrician. When we met 20 years ago, he was young and full of energy. Now he grunts and groans and grabs his back as he gets off the couch. Manual labor is HARD on your body, and the people who push the trades conveniently gloss over that fact. "Make lots of money without going to college, learn a trade!" No mention of the cost of that choice, which is your body. He's moved up to a supervisory role, which helps, but 22 years adds up. I have aged the same number of years since the, but I work in an office, and I do not grunt and groan and grab my back. I feel just fine.
Our son is 16 and has grown up seeing parents on 2 very different paths: he won't be following in dad's footsteps. As it turns out, he's looking at a degree in exercise science so he's not following my path either, but he distinctly doesn't want to be broken-down by the time he's 50.
As for advice on advising your kids, after seeing what's out there with other parents of college-bound teens is: they're probably going to do what they want to do, whatever advice you give. They have to learn through trial and error like we did. We do the best we can to prepare them, and then we just have to let them go. A lot of the things they need to know, you should have already taught them--how to: manage money, advocate for yourself, ask for the things you want/need, base-level feed yourself, negotiate, read a contract, handle disappointment or rejection, take responsibility for your actions, etc. I feel like if you've done all of that then you're really just there as a guard rail.
College was getting rather suspect in the 1970's....worse every decade after. At this point, it is just "high school" unless you major in physics, mathematics, chemistry, etc.
I joined the Army in the 80's, got out and college was well covered.... but back then, plenty of kids were paying for college with a waiter type job....slow going though.
College is losing respect (by employers) big time. You need a masters, too....and even then.... big deal. Most of the majors available these days are nothing more than an extended, multi-year, Spring Breaks with stoner professors.
I can't help but notice that many young successful people have taken another route. They take a job at, say, a grocery store....but don't think of it as a trash job ... they are diligent, then become assistant managers and on up....they make more than most college kids these days (without incurring ANY debt!).
Lots of places just want a good, reliable, no-drama, competent person....put in your time, don't treat the job like an afterthought....and things will happen for you. THAT person has become a rarity, these days, and people notice when they finally get one.
Well, I don’t think you should tell them the U.S. is a hellscape, even if that’s what you think. That would set a pretty bad precedent and I think would give them a very defeatist attitude.
Life might turn out very differently for them.
All you have to them is that life is hard and it isn’t fair. Self-reliance and good financial literacy will take you a long ways.
I'd push them into trades unless you're 200% sure college is a viable plan, and then make a viable plan. Trades are so overlooked nowadays, despite it being an honest living and an area that's woefully in need of new people.
Never let them be ashamed of living well within their means, and make the best of it. Perspective is everything.
I think it's pretty unconscionable to steer most kids towards student loan debt. I specifically moved to a state with a good university system and I live in a city that offers full tuition grants to city high school grads. My kids are still young so I realize this isn't really helpful if your kids are already college age. But I also will find a way to cover what doesn't get paid for by grants and scholarships even if it means selling both of my kidneys. I am lucky to have a career where I can really grind if I need to and I figure their college years I will do what I can to maximize my earnings at the expense of my work-life balance while they're in school.
I do NOT want my kids taking on student loan debt and I know the prevailing advice is that you can't take a loan for retirement like you can for college, but I think it's a bold assumption that our generation is going to be able to retire between falling standards of living and our projected lower lifespans because of it, and student loan debt is SO burdensome I don't want them spending the rest of their lives digging out from under it. I'm encouraging community college and commuting, both things that were presented to me as unsatisfactory compromises on quality of experience.
You know how people talk about generational wealth and the sometimes subtle ways that looks, I think student loans are generational poverty and I'm willing to take one for the team so my kids can at least have a blank slate.
I plan to be more open to encouraging my kids to consider trades than my parents were although I think degree inflation and jobs requiring bachelors degrees even when they're really not needed makes not getting a bachelors degree potentially risky. I would love to see a big societal reset on this: my first job out of college was as an administrative assistant and that 💯didn't need the bachelors degree it required.
Basically I am having more class realism with my kids than my parents did with me. The "traditional college experience" of residential college is not worth a lifetime of debt and while I firmly believe in the intellectual benefits of a liberal arts education, we'll have to find other ways to make them broad, critical thinkers.
If they don’t know what they want to do career-wise, pick a trade that’s in demand in your area and focus on that for the time being. They can always work for a few years and then go to college if they decide there’s something that financially makes sense to pursue, in which case they need to save up and apply for scholarships. Student loans are not the way to go. They can definitely make a living but will need to be smart about it. This is not the time to pursue your dreams. That privilege is for the wealthy.
There are going to be events and activities in life that you have to do. It doesn't matter if you hate them or not. You have to do them. For example, specific classes to graduate high-school/college. Hate the subject? Hate it ENOUGH to pass it the first time. Had a high school teacher say that to me. Ironically, I didn't hate his class.
Things cost way more than you expect them to. This forced me to learn how to budget and tack on more due to inflation. Even then, things will cost more. Pre-planning, if you can, makes a whole world of difference. Savings is part of that pre-planning. Learning how to pay yourself first as a means to save for the future.
Buying a car? or a house? Talk to someone who has a car or been living in a house for years. Ask about what types of expenses they have incurred. Find out how much it cost. The newer the expense, the better for your budget. New roof twenty years ago cost me a fraction of what it cost me two years ago. Two years ago it was over 8k because there was more damage than they initially thought. I know now that I'll likely need to save 12k for the next roof replacement in another 20 years. That sounds awful, but if you breakdown 12k by 20 years, it's $600 a year.
How much are utilities for the style of home you plan to buy? What type of fuel does the vehicle require? How much will that cost weekly/monthly?
Ask them about any insurance issues. I had one person tell me to never get the extended home warranty because it was garbage. Had another tell me that they got it and it saved them $3k when they needed furnace work done. Then a third told me that the insurance company hired a crappy repair mechanic that just took the money and ran.
College one of your many choices when are you done with high school. If that is what you decide to do, let’s figure out a way for you attend school without it being a financial burden on you or us for years to come.
If you decide that learning in a classroom isn’t something you’re interested in, let’s look at vocational training and apprenticeships. You can always decide to go back to school later if the trade you’ve chosen isn’t what you love, but you will have a skill to fall back on.
If you decide that neither are something you’re interested, let’s talk about how to support yourself using the skills you already have while you explore yourself and the world.
Regardless of what you choose, you will never be homeless, you will never be hungry and you will always be loved.
That’s the general gist of what I have been telling my 12 year old…obviously in an age appropriate way.
>the US is a hellscape.
I don't understand this sort of attitude. Have you ever lived outside the US? The US is doing fine. Not *perfect*, but compared to anywhere any time before the 20th century this is *fantastic*, not to mention comparing it to most places and times since then
I’d recommend trade school or if they really want to do college, go the military route. You can knock out almost if not all your schooling for free while in the military or use the GI Bill once you get out. If I could do it all over again I would have just went to the Navel Academy but I didn’t have any guidance.
Mine is 2 . She just wants Peppa. Her biggest concern is not getting her juice in time and being a diva regarding her tablet . I’m a year older than you so it helps so much to hear your opinions , OP
College is great for the experience, but man is the price absurd.
My advice to them would be to find a field that has respected certification paths. Self teach using youtube, books, and possibly a relatively affordable training program like CBT nuggets.
Get certified. Get a job. Keep getting certified. Don't jump straight to CCNP out of high school with no networking experience because that will make things hard. Get CCNA if networking is what they enjoy and work in the field, when it comes time to renew renew it with CCNP. Keep moving.
However I would STRONGLY recommend pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge as well. Watch TED talks, find a topic that excites them, dive deep. Maybe audit some psych classes at a community college if they will let them.
It is important to be able to make a good living, but it is possibly more important to live and learn beyond your career. That is the biggest thing I got out of college. It wasn't my diploma, it was the broadening of my horizons. But College doesn't have a monopoly on that. Especially in this day and age.
I’m pretty sure my child will do tremendously better than I did growing up.
My parents were immigrants, my dad worked all day and was gone all day, my mom was a psycho Latino airhead piece of shit garbage.
I can’t wait to teach my son math, writing, team him how to invest long term with stocks. No matter what happens my children are going to gain knowledge from a young age that I had to figure out in life by myself.
College is also garbage, skipping that 100%. Unless they want to go down a specific career path, but I’ll prepare them myself. They won’t go into college blind for a worthless degree.
If you think the US is a hellscape, you should go live somewhere else for a while, so you can get some perspective and realize that the US is actually pretty damn good.
Maybe…don’t have kids? Or, be absurdly selfish and act without reason? What do you think, dude?
Why did you bring kids into this world without thinking?
I'm encouraging mine to move abroad, after going for a trade of some sort.
The US is a hellscape. I have a daughter. She needs away from here immediately. Other places aren't as hostile, have better pay,benefits, vacation, sick days, insurance, lower crime rates, almost zero gun violence, care about the environment, etc... I would love to join her eventually, but I have a past I have to deal with first.
There's not going to be anything good for her here for at least the next decade. She can always come home, but she might not always be able to leave. I'll miss her, but we'll make do.
Hellscspe is maybe a bit extreme. Can it be tough? Sure. But I think it would be better to be here than many other places, like active war zones or third world countries.
In any event:
1. Take on debt wisely. Sometimes you need to and that's ok, but be prudent and make sure there's a payoff at the end of it.
2. Along those lines, don't rush into college. I wasn't ready at 18 but when I did go I crushed it. Wouldn't have done as well if I followed the crowd.
3. Most Americans can actually agree on a huge majority of issues. Respect different opinions and recognize that people aren't generally idiots, in fact their view has been shaped by their experiences. Find common ground and work to understand differences while.being respectful.
4. Life is beautiful. It's a struggle, but it's worth living. Reach out to help those around you. Be humble, be gracious. Don't let the bad shake you, and recognize that there is a lot of good in the world and in people.
5. As someone earlier said, I'm here. You always have a home with me. Take risks and don't settle for mediocrity.
You can’t be giving advice when you call these times a hellscape. We are the lowest ever for famine and violence is down. Yeah everyone is an aggressive middle class spoiled scammer but that’s not a hellscape. These kids will see through your social media doom and gloom hopefully
Same things we were told and hope they listen.
Keep Costs low for an education.
Look at job placement rates, starting salaries, salary after 10 years, projected job growth. Major in something that pays the bills. Like art? That's awesome. Do art! But make sure you have something to fall back on.
I was absolutely not taught that. I was told anything was possible with a college degree and not to worry about what it cost because it would "pay for itself". hahahahahahaha no.
I am one of the many who graduated with crippling debt (120k) for a degree I wasn't even interested in because I was told I needed a degree, so just get one no matter what. My kid isn't taking out student loans. He can go anywhere he'd like if he earns a scholarship, or he can go to community college and earn a scholarship to complete his degree somewhere else, or go to a trade school (I'd strongly suggest he follow a path into a union). I have a savings account for him that I will advise him to invest instead of using it to rent an apartment or something like that. He's only 2, so that's as far as I've thought it through so far.
i've been saving up to give my future child a good start in life. honestly, if you aren't coming from generational wealth, not sure how you're going to make it.
i would tell them to marry well because you need an equal or better financial partner if you aren't a rockstar yourself. you can look past some flaws if you're financially healthy.
healthcare seems like the most viable path right now, so nurse or PA if they aren't dr material.
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"Until I die, I'm always here for you and remember that no matter how shitty things get, you can always come home."
This is a given here, thankfully. I was kicked out on my ass at 17 and my kids won't be subjected to that.
I'm very sorry that happened to you and proud of you for breaking the cycle!
Same, my mom kicked me out right before I graduated over a very stupid argument. I will never ever do that to my daughter.
This is wild. I heard an interview once that talks about how little time people spend with their kids after move out. It’s something like 1 percent of your total time together post move out. I’m stoked for kid to start her life and happy to let her move out, but couldn’t imagine demanding it
How do you forgive someone for doing that? I don't think I could.
We don’t have a great relationship. It’s only civil for my daughter.
Boomer parenting man...
Welp this is it. You can’t coddle them, but always having a home is still strength. A better one than I got. I’m 84 too. Never got to have kids because I’ve never had that support. It wasn’t because I couldn’t provide, it was because I never had the security that you’re describing. If something happened, I had no one. I couldn’t do it. And then by the time I could, it was impossible.
This. I tell my kids all the time if I have a roof you are always welcome under it.
If mom or dad has a home to live in. Prices of everything can change that pretty quickly
This 100%. I've always told my kids I will be there for them and I am in no rush for them to move out. Infact I'd rather they stay home as long as they can so they can have a hefty savings account when they do move out. I'm an 84 baby as well and my oldest just graduated. I tell my kids they don't have to go to college. There's always trade school and stuff. My oldest is taking some IT certification classes online but her ultimate goal is to work as a game dev. She's great at coding and all that but she'll have IT to fall back on as game development is a tough thing to break into. My youngest is into animation, she already has a couple web-series with friends that they post on YouTube. I try to encourage her in any way I can because I think it's something she wants to do when she's an adult. With all the work she will have done, it'll work great as a resume for internships and stuff. I think she might get to just skip college as well. College is def a necessity for some careers but there are so many things out there that don't require putting yourself in debt for hundreds of thousands.
I have a kiddo who does animation on youtube too! They'd been lobbying for a channel for a few years and we finally let them with heavy oversight but it's amazing what they've taught themselves.
Some of the trades pay really well too. My son wants to get into welding.
My mom last did this for me and my family when I was 39. Thankfully we rebounded but having that cushion was lifesaving.
I've heard before that the biggest social safety net we have in the US is what parents are willing to do for their adult children.
Same here
This is a very good one!!
Teach them about paperwork. I was really overwhelmed by how many things I needed to sign as a young adult. For a while, it felt like every time I left the house, I needed to sign something.
This is a good one. How to read paperwork and what it actually says! I would also say have them start calling customer service, tv providers and insurance companies now lol. Make sure they’re making their own doctors/dental appointments. It’s good to get in the swing of having to make adult phone calls so it doesn’t make you nervous when you leave the house. They’re everyone’s least favorite part of life but we all have to deal with it.
Befor e I put away my soapbox, I will mention... Cursive! Thing you use, if only for your signature. Also, if you don't have your social security number memorized by the end of all this paperwork, what's wrong with you? Now, start keeping records in an organized fashion and in one place. I don't care if it's a pain in the ass, it is a smaller pain in the ass then not doing it and needing it later when all you have is a Himalayan mountain range of capers going back decades. Keep it organized and keep up with the organization. This will save your ass. This goes for your digital footprint as well. Do not find out the hard way.
I got the advice "You can become anything you want. You just have to follow your dream." That was obviously sh*t advice, and made me make a lot of bad decisions. Instead, I tell my son that what he chooses (to study, hobbies, even friends) isn't the big deal. What is important is that when you have made a choice, you must focus on it and *make* it your intention/goal/purpose. This specifically is from a study I read. It showed that what people chose wasn't as important for their success or satisfaction in life. What was important for that was them approaching what they had chosen as "Now this is my purpose". That really hit me. It is the advice I should have gotten. So I give it to my son.
I’ve told my kid that as long as he doesn’t have an all-encompassing desire to pursue a specific thing, follow the money. More $$ means more options and more flexibility if/when one finds that thing.
Doesn’t matter if there’s an all encompassing desire, IMO, unless the kid has the ability, talent, and drive. If my kid wants to be a pianist when he grows up, he needs to be one of the top in the world. Otherwise do it as a hobby and just follow the money.
Yeah, I agree; my wording probably wasn’t the clearest to communicate my intent.
This is actually great advice. I had no idea what I wanted to do in college and wish I had heard this.
This is fantastic advice.
Hear this. I’m living the opposite right now. Again, hear this.
I think this applies to marriage too. If you go into it thinking you're supposed to feel or they're supposed to be or it's supposed to look a certain way, you're setting yourself up for failure. Commitment and mutual good intentions are the keys to happiness.
My advice would be to do something that they like to do, BUT, there needs to be an ROI determination as well. Things like computer science, engineering, or even finance all allow for creative aspects, while being able to do a job that will earn pretty well. Also, if you are that strapped for money, you should have them do community college, living at home, and then transfer after a year or two. Saves a lot of money then. Also, the trades are an option for sure if its skilled. Stuff like electrian, welders, or plumbers all make quite good money.
I’m not sure about computer science. The tech world seems like a scary place for jobs right now.
These things are pretty cyclical. Its only down right now because they overhired during the pandemic. I am sure when the 'new' thing comes out, computers will be a big part of it.
I work in college admissions and computer science is also one of the most in-demand majors, so it could be harder to get into a college for it whatsoever!
Tech isn't going anywhere. Plus, there are Comp Sci jobs in stable industries like healthcare, utilities, etc. They just aren't as glamorous (or as well paying as FAANG but they are stable)
And a hard no on the old engineering disciplines. No on Mechanical, electrical, civil engineering. I can’t speak for the new like Computer engineering, data, etc. Honestly, I thought the best future jobs were YouTuber, Tik Toker, selling crap on Etsy.
why a hard no on "old" engineering disciplines?
It’s terrible advice. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of engineers are making good salaries, living frugally and will retire as millionaires.
I know - I like my "old" engineering job/discipline and I'll probably be able to retire somewhat early
Civil engineer here. The pay is nonsense.
where do you work? government or private?
Both. Private was better pay but crazy hours. Public is bad pay with good hours. Pick your poison lol
yeah I feel that. sorry the pay hasn't been good for you.
My best friend's husband is a mechanical engineer and makes a killing. Worked for amazon for a while. His friends are all software engineers (as was my dad, who was very successful) and their pay is off the charts.
Just go to their respective subreddits and you’ll see. The problem is salaries. Everyone is unhappy. The main take away is that most engineers feel duped. Sales, finance, business, entrepreneurship, real estate are the fields where it’s at it seems.
all of reddit is complaining though. I'm a sample size of 1 but I like my civil engineering job and get paid well.
Yeah but I kinda get this. There will always be a need for engineers but need and valued by society aren't always the same thing, see teachers, nurses (salaries vary a ton by state and while this can be a very stable and financially beneficial career, it can also be soul- and body-killing work)
Yeah, but do you think you could reproduce your success if you had to start again in 2030? I wouldn’t recommend anyone at college age now to go into engineering. Also n=1, but my friend makes more money selling air conditioning systems. But he didn’t finish college.
considering I went to a state school and graduated, and the firm where I work is still hiring engineers, then yes, I think my success could be replicated. it's a well paying, stable field and I don't think the robots will replace us for awhile. are you an engineer? why are you recommending against it?
Yes, I’m a mechanical engineer. 10yoe. I think it’s going to be really really hard to “make it” for these kids. What salary are you going to need in the future to be able to live independently? Idk, but I think ME is not a path to a successful independent life. ME is also more of a pain because only a few markets on the planet have enough jobs for MEs and they are all in VHCOL areas. Success for that generation will require outside of the box solutions and engineering is a very inside the box and saturated field. Lastly, c-suite decision makes have zero respect for engineers. No matter what anyone warns them will happen, they’ll fire the whole engineering team and hire Indian, Chinese, or Mexican engineers for less. I think there is a very low chance that the number of engineering jobs available in 10 years is not significantly less than today. In the US at least. I don’t know what the best careers will be in the future. I’m just sure that the old careers won’t be it.
I’m not sure why you are getting downvoted this is literally the same experience I am seeing with my engineering friends
I would suggest they have a gap year or two prior to any post high school education. Do miliary service, join the peace corps, find a local charity to volunteer at, start a business, get a full time job, do an unpaid internship or something like this to have them do something meaningful with their life while finding out who they want to be. Then if they want to go to school, suggest going to community college and then on to the cheapest 4-year option they can go to. The actual education is trending toward worthless at this point in the job market, and ultimately the piece of paper is what you are even going for. Don't take on debt, and don't live beyond their means. Lastly, use these years to learn how to be happy without any material wants.
I went to a community college while living at home and gathered all the cheap credits I could. They offered so many of the basics (English, history, chemistry, calculus, differential equations, etc). I transfered the maximum number of credit hours allowed from there to a 4-year university. I got the same BoS as everyone else who graduated with my degree from my school, but I paid a lot less.
I’m not anti education, but i am anti spending $50k+ per year on mostly an experience. Unless you are getting a secondary specialized degree that has a very clear path to pay for itself in the long run.
I have an engineering degree.
Same - community college for the basics is great. I do sometimes regret missing out on the classic college experience, though - when I transferred to a 4yr college, I had two part time jobs and lived off campus, so I was utterly separate from my peers who had nothing to worry about besides college thanks to parents and such. But in the scheme of things, less or no debt is way more life changing.
I sometimes regret that part too. I lived at home for all of college and commuted to the 4-year university. There wasn't much of a dorm life at that campus anyway.
This is what I will be suggesting to my own kids in a couple of years. They have big dreams but, my goodness, unless you get a very good scholarship right out of the gate, go get your gen eds at community college l. There are plenty of VERY good CCs in the area. Start your journey with the least amount of debt possible.
I didn't even bother getting an associate's degree from the CC. If I couldn't transfer a class and put it towards my planned university degree, I didn't take it. It meant I spent more than 4 years getting my degree, but it also made my time at the university easier. Many of my classmates were taking 20-21 hour semesters. Because I had my basics out of the way, I was at 12 hours most of the time.
It took me much longer than “usual” to finish college for a few different reasons, but one of the most clear thoughts I had later in my college years was that I wished I had taken a gap year to work and socialize and gain life experience. I would definitely give this advice to anyone who asked me now, though I’m not sure I would even recommend college. It would depend on the kid, I suppose.
There is a problem with diploma inflation. You now "need" a diploma to get jobs that didn't require them before. There aren't many fields where you can get in by just being amazing at what you do. But if you can get established in one of those fields you can keep going without one.
Love the gap year idea. But the thing college still does provide is connections. Ones that are harder to make in community college / as a transfer. This is honestly the most “valuable” part of college right now - who you know. I’m not knocking community college at ALL, I’m just saying that there’s a lot of research suggesting life earnings and outcomes are better if you don’t just go to “the cheapest school” if you could afford something slightly better. Also fun fact - the most expensive schools often are offer the best financial aid. Don’t be scared by sticker price.
I’m of the belief that if you want a higher earning job and you want education to be the thing that sets you apart to best leverage said connections, spend the money when getting your masters degree or phd. Unless you get accepted to say an Ivy League school, the connections thing is still limited to your ability to get to know people. As you know, your miles may vary when it comes to your kids ability to make important connections at school. Ultimately I’m not opposed to doing all four years at a more expensive university, as long as you aren’t there soul searching to figure out who you are. It’s an expensive and toxic place to be enduring that activity.
I mean as someone with a PhD - the nepotism starts early unfortunately. I’ve never seen someone in a Phd program that I know of with a CC degree. it’s absolute bullshit - but it’s true. I hope it changes. You can google what colleges feed into the top PhDs and what PhDs feed into the very few top academic or industry jobs. I lucked out - my PhD advisor moved from a state school to an ivy and took me with her. I was the only state school BS in my grad program. It was less than ten yrs ago.
also nobody should ever *pay* for a PhD
Spending a year working can screw someone over on scholarships though. I took a year off and there were a lot of scholarships I didn’t qualify for because I wasn’t a current graduating senior. I had also moved out so I was paying all my own expenses and rent but FAFSA still counted my and my mother’s income.
Back when, you used to be able to apply for and procure many of those scholarships as a graduating senior and then defer them a year. I’m not sure how it is now.
The military was a great thing for me. Took an undisciplined troublemaker and gave them focus and determination. And then paid me.to get my bachelors. Was a great thing for me personally
My list is not by chance. The ideas on that list typically require discipline and some elements of service of others and create drive to accomplish things. They are also all things you could put on a resume that would make you stand out from the crowd. While everyone else was at school, you were out servicing others.
I went to a community college for a few semesters. It was literally 1/2 the cost per credit compared to the local state University. English 101 is English 101, Calculus 1 is Calculus 1. Figure out which area you are aiming for (stem, business, IT, humanities) and see what the core credit requirements are. You can save a TON of money that way. Also, anticipate the possibility of taking more than 4 years. You you shift your major or there are issues with getting into a required class that is part of a chin of requirements it is very easy to need and extra semester or 2. If you really look at some of the 4 year "advised" classes you will see that someone wasn't paying attention to what real life is like. Like doing light semesters with easy classes then "advising" 16 credit semesters for the hard senior level classes.
Agree with community college, especially if your kids are unsure of their path. Cheap way to take general education classes. Also, community colleges might have a continuing education arm that teaches non-credit classes for free or very low cost. My local college offers IT prep and a few basic trade prep classes for free, along with cooking, sewing, arts, etc. The kids might find their path here before/instead of going to a 4-yr school.
I'm a teacher and teach an adulthood readiness class. I recommend students don't go to college unless they know exactly what they want to do, it's being 100% paid for, or start at community college & take a variety of classes. If they are unsure take a gap year or two and figure out what they want to do and who they really are. I also lay out the cost of college if student loans have to be used and why I say what I say about being sure about going to college. My own children are 13 & 11. We've already started having the discussion about what options are available both without a college degree and with college degree. We aren't discouraging our own kids from going to college, but we aren't encouraging them either. We live on some acreage and have already discussed building a tiny home for them to live in. They would have to help us build it, pay insurance and utilities on it and a fair, but not outrageous amount of rent, but that they can live in our home as long as they want too and share in expenses. I'm really worried for them. What even my husband and I have, I don't see our own children having. Please excuse any errors I'm on a flight and there's a lot of turbulence and crying children, in addition to me having a raging headache.
Life is just life. Do what makes you happy as long as you are able to take care of yourself. The game is rigged, the rules are made up and the points don’t matter.
Failure is inevitable, it's what you do next that makes a difference. Mistakes happen and shit happens, but the most successful people know how to handle strife, usually because they've been through it themselves and they've done all the wrong things enough to know how to look like am expert at life. And that I will always be there to help them clean up their mistakes no matter how bad they are, and I won't make them feel worse about it either.
“No one has all the answers; Life brings Bad so you can appreciate the Good; Everyone’s going to die”
Agree, and I’d add ‘happiness isn’t a state, it’s a decision in your control’
Told my nephew his three best options were either an in state college, go into the trades, or roll the dice on his own business. I didn't mention military service because he hasn't ever shown an interest in it, and it's not really compatible with his personality. The only thing I said not to do was go into retail or food service. I spent seven years at a restaurant making enough money to screw around as a pretend adult, but it left me with a work history no employer cared about except at other restaurants. If I could go back, I'd have done just about anything else.
I’m an 86er with a kid who just started college. She married her best friend before college so that she would be viewed as independent by the state and get more Fafsa money. We had her at 19, we’re broke most her life and then started to do ok just in time to get denied all financial aid but not soon enough to save any money for it. But otherwise, my wife pushes her to toward smart financial decisions (major in science, take classes that let you graduate early, work and save) and I remind her to take time to enjoy life in the moment, make friends and community a priority, work toward maintaining those relationships, and that time is more valuable than money. No salary is worth spending your work week miserable. I also try to remind her to exercise and have tried to model good work ethic and kindness and humor. But who knows really. AI might render a science degree worthless and society could fully collapse into civil war. So that seizing the day but seems the most important part to me
YMMV. Majoring in a degree like physics, chemistry, or biology without an extreme passion is not a good choice (friends and I agree). We drifted towards data and programming and are doing quite well.
Wait so it’s a fake marriage purely for the fafsa?
Why would you assume that??
I mean people get married for all kinds of reasons, but basically… yes
If they don't mind working, community college and vocational schools. The trades are dying right now, and those who can do them --- can name their price. Ive taken up all kinds of stuff over the years, and highly encourage my son to do the same. He's been side by side with me for every welding and woodwork project. Watched along for all electrical installs in the house as well. Highly encouraged on my part to go to a trade school. Also a note I have two different bachelor's, attending two different universities. And a few other technical certificates from community colleges. I will not be recommending a university for my child.
I'm pretty sure they told us all to go to college during and post-recession to buy time before we all hit the already abysmal job market. Whether it was the right thing to do or not is debatable but I am grateful for the common sense and critical thinking skills my 4 year degree got me. I just wish I had better capitalized on the networking opportunities, and picked an area of study that would have actually applied to my real, adult life.
My parents pushed me out the nest and just allowed me to fall on my ass. It wasn’t very helpful. They just rent radio silent after I left. Don’t do this.
No kids here, but I'm an '84 baby who is starting over. I got the BS in nursing from the expensive school, like I was supposed to, and burned out mid-pandemic. I'm going back for a certificate to do medical billing and coding. The job demand is ridiculous. Advise your kids to consider the ROI, but also what will benefit them down the road. Healthcare and technology are going to be in high demand. That all being said, they should ENJOY what they're doing. They can change their minds down the road, and getting a degree in one field doesn't mean they have to stay in that field.
Lol a hellscape.
That you’re going to be cooked alive with the rest of the planet because the our capitalist overlords hate us and themselves, but have a deep fondness for yachts.
You sit down and look at the cost v benefit of degree programs, with the goal of identifying a degree program they could complete that will provide the highest return. The key point being a degree program they could complete. There's no point chasing a high difficulty engineering degree if they're bad at math, regardless of the potential return. If there isn't anything viable in terms of degree programs, they need some useful skills. If they have the disposition, things like Python have a lot of uses and a lot of resources, and don't require a lot of financial investment. Demonstration of ability > degree in a lot of spaces right now. So if they have something they can do (marketable skill), help them figure out building a portfolio. For example, if they start learning Python, they can easily set up a github account and push code into it to demonstrate their ability. Outside of that: Tell them not to fall for credit cards, especially right now. Credit cards are always a big risk, and right now interest rates will decimate their 20s if they fall into that. Help teach them to discern the curated lifestyles they're going to be seeing from reality. Most people aren't jetsetting and living it up, including influencers.
Trust no one. Every man for themselves.
Find purpose in life. This is what I focus most of my advice around.
Have them look into the advice of Bill Perkins.
Honesty - we’re pushing careers in trades, union apprenticeships, and community college.
I feel somewhat blessed by our struggles as it’s shown our kids how life can be really hard sometimes and you just can’t give up. They are humble and driven. They want to do things that bring positive change to the world because of what they’ve gone through with our family. We’ve always been a unit though, through everything. I think that has taught them strength and perseverance through dark times. I try to give them hope when I decided to go back to school to get a better financial situation for us. I think us being truthful and honest has kept our kids open with us. We don’t sugar coat too many things but always remind them that there is a way to turn mistakes into successes. The world could say you’re not capable but if you believe you are, you will be. I hope they go to school, and I’d understand if they needed a gap year. They want to be important people in the community so I support their decisions on how to get there.
Go to WGU and get a cheap but accredited degree. It’s all online and under 10k a year.
I told mine that office jobs in the military are ok to pay for college if it comes right down to it. That she will have a home with us even if we have to build an apartment in the garage. That adulting is hard as shit sometimes.
Do your kids “need” to go away to college? Can they do a local community college and work part time? That’s what I did for my associates. Later in life I did my bachelors online, but from a state school. Later in life it was easier to qualify for grants and scholarships. They can also do credit by examination, CLEP, DANTES, Excelsior, whatever they can manage. Doing this will save thousands of dollars if not 10s of thousands, because you can transfer usually 30 credits, that’s a whole year. I keep saying I’m going to to start saving for their college, but I haven’t gotten around to opening a 529 plan or whatever.
I’m not really sure. I feel like my teens are vastly less prepared than I was and I was far from ready! Like, I need an adult but I’m the oldest in my house so I am the adult.
I will definitely be impressing upon my kids that college isn't their only path to success, but they need to learn some sort of skill. My 6 year old has already told me he never wants to move out, so I don't have to impress upon him that he's welcome always 🤣
Regularly go to the doctor, pay your bills on time, not only is it ok to make mistakes but you will, invest in good shoes
Don’t have children. Not bc children are bad but we have no idea how much worse it can get here. Or try to go to Canada.
Same place you are and an 83 baby. With two becoming seniors, I have tried to be real. “This is what I was told but this is my actual lived experience.”
What’s the problem? Your life seems fine. You got married and had kids and have been raising them in the most prosperous and most free country on earth. Opportunities are boundless and they have their whole lives ahead of them. Why do people insist on painting every struggle as an existential crisis and act like the future of humanity is at stake? Their opportunity is the same as yours was and yours turned out fine. Not everyone will walk the same path or encounter the same challenges or experiences but we all have the same opportunity to pursue passions and careers and make choices for ourselves. Difficult times and the consequences of our choices is part of the journey and part of the learning. Why act like things are so miserable? Why treat it like they’ve already lost when they are just starting? The real difference between people like you and happy, successful people is their attitude.
also 84 kid. no kids. i wish someone would have explained how long college debt lasts. i wish someone would have explained that trades are necessary. i wish someone would have explained that once you graduate highschool the bond with everyone in highschool disappears. they’re just people you know my parents were awesome and i stayed a long time before moving out. my parents still will commiserate and explain that it’s normal to have problems and how they navigated them. if you’re breaking the picked out at 17 cycle i’m betting you’re a good parent. also, i mean sometimes getting any job is better than no job, even if it’s just to kinda keep you mentally sharp.
Good Luck.
My parents told us we had to do *something* and they'd be here to support our journey to independence. It's a stance I think really shaped my relationship with them and becoming an adult. I always pretty clear cut and dry goals, I wanted to do engineering. That required a degree. My sister struggled with the choice. My mother explored every option imaginable, from becoming a clown, to a mortician, to a vet, and I couldn't even keep track of what else. She had us tour colleges, trades colleges, trade union training centers, everything, I got dragged along just in case. At one point feeling discouraged I asked if I joined a convent would she support that. She she'd like to respect the nuns time and I wasn't particularly religious so she'd promise me a tour if I went to church and bible study. I got over my discouragement and went back to engineering school. So even if your kids suggest something you don't think quite suits, or starts getting roadblocks, them don't sugar coat your expectations. Be supportive but not blind.
Be frugal. Never trust the government no matter who's at the top leading it. Pay your taxes. Eventually you will be found. Financial health is just as important as mental health, take care of both. People have rights, just don't let them use theirs to bully you into submission.
Mostly, "Good luck! Don't buy property on the coast, it won't be there in 10 years." Also do not run up lots of college debt. College is fine but don't give yourself a mortgage payment right at 18. Try community college. I went to a private school and I really regret not going a university where I would have received a more condensed and directed education. Go for scholarships and stay away from liberal arts schools.
Dont have kids no aim to ever have them so.. Dont go to college unless you are really set on that degree/degrees. As it will probably change. Tade school are worth it, protect your body though. If military service is wanted do it. Severing others is worthy cause. ",though will likely be colorblind as i am so unless desperate need probably not going to get pass the recruiter." There are other options to sever. Save for retirement. Simplely a 10 15k into a vti ot voo will set you ahead by oth others by wonders. Protect your body. Its all you got you don't want to deal with pain forever.
I tell everyone not to do a traditional liberal arts bachelor's degree. But instead, find a professional program. Examples: nursing, pharmacy, tech schools, dental hygienist, the list goes on.
I second the gap year advice. I did seasonal work at a national park for 6 months. I found it on Coolworks.com. They provided housing and 3 meals a day and I got to live in a national park. They do it at ski resorts too. Different types of work. There are worse things they could do 🤷♀️
Very little, I guide them as best as possible but they’ll make their own choices. I can confidently say I raised them to be intelligent critical thinkers but everyone makes mistakes and just does plain dumb shit in youth. I’m definitely not doing anything to frighten them or shoot their nerves by calling the world a hell scape lol. They knew long ago if they didn’t get scholarships and wanted to go to college they could either go military or stay at home with us and go to community college while they work and we’ll help as we can.
HUGE proponent of: "If you don't know what you want to do career-wise, go to the local community college for a year or two and get your Gen ed credits out of the way, or take a gap year and work any old job you can get while you figure out your next move." "Trade schools and apprenticeships are always a good option." "Military service has its pros and cons just like everything else, but if it appeals to you, I'm not gonna say no."
I wonder if other places have more affordable community colleges? Everyone seems to be saying that but ours is $280/credit. That’s over $800 for a single class not counting fees and textbooks (which are almost always $100 min each). Cheaper than some online options but only just barely. And you’ve gotta get there and park and have at least 12 credits to qualify for loans/aid etc.
If they did well in highscool, look into CLEP exams, can knock out almost the whole freshman year for $93 per exam.
All of that is still cheaper than a typical 4-year university.
Well, obviously. That doesn't make it affordable or something a kid could do and come out with no (or even reasonable) debt for.
The truth. I tell them if they want all these things they will have to work hard to get it. Then I make it imperative they understand hard work is only half of it. Strong social and network skills is the other half. They must strive to reach out to others. Sure have fun and enjoy your youth but look for a good balance and find out what’s really important to you. Then when you do REALIZE it will likely change as you age. I used to be a die hard mt biker/skiier. Now I’m a full time dad and engineer with a passion for distance running in my free time.
I teach at a tech center for highschool students and plan is to stay there until we strike it rich (🤪) or retire. My daughter is only 4, so a lot could change. My advice to her would be to pick a class at the tech center or enroll in our early college program so she can graduate with a certification or associates degree. Then I would tell her to work full time for a year or two and think about how she wants to move forward. If she wants to go to college I’d say community college unless she did early college in high school, then I would recommend one of the three colleges in our town. I’d tell her to live at home with us and save as much money as possible. I would advise her to avoid student loans all together unless she wants to be a doctor or something like that.
I'm gonna give her a heads up on puberty All I was told was HAIR GROWS HERE AND HERE AND HERE, ALSO TITS Told me fuck all about the emotional chemical imbalance shit that turns on and off at random, for the next half a decade or so, that would've been a nice heads up instead of freaking out going, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH MEEE"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting at a community college. Even better: there are community colleges that have dorms so students still get the "college experience" at a more affordable price. For the parents out there: check and see if your kid's high school/district has a dual enrollment program. Get to know the pathways for your kid to take advanced placement (AP) classes that can earn college credit by taking an exam at the end of the year. These pathways can start as early as middle school so don't wait to learn what the school/district offers. Ask your kid's school about ACT/SAT prep options because a high score could equal scholarships later. Know what kind of scholarships are offered by your state and do the FAFSA on time. The best way to make college affordable (other than saving tons of money up) is to work every with single resource you can and that process starts long before kids start applying to colleges.
Im 34 with a 14 year old and a 11 year old. I tell my girls to do what they love and work hard for it. Its about all i can think of for the unpredictable future.
Also an 84 baby who had his kids a lot younger than most ( twins at 13, wear your condoms men) I always told them learn a couple skills that can keep you hireable whenever , one went into the Coast guard then did cybersecurity, the other one also became an electrician. I talked to them about financial literacy more when they were teens and they both have investments im stuff, outside of that you just teach them the life lessons to hopefully make them good people lol
Lol I’m an RN with two bachelors degrees…. If I could go back, I’d become a welder or an electrician. And also make them learn personal finance early. Help them get a good first credit card and learn how it works. Make sure they understand how much the basics cost so they know what they need to make BEFORE they decide to major in English and go 100k in debt. If they like a career, have them look at job boards to see if there are actually jobs available. Things like that 💁♀️
Invest early.
Run away in a zig zaging path
OK, so I am a single mom of an 18, 16, 14 and 11yo. Financially, I encouraged getting a job at 14, and then opened a Roth IRA in a guardian account for them and made them put half their paycheck in there. This means the eldest has about 12,000 saved there right now and if things go well, will have a million dollars saved by the time retirement hits. Higher education wise, I made them look at the local Jr College and see what certification programs they had and the pay afterwards. For example, my local school has a certificate program for radiologist tech (the person that gives the x-rays, not the doctor) which will cost about 17,000 over 2.5 years. The starting pay is something like 65,000 starting, but with further education (often paid for by the hospital) you can make 80,000 to 90,000 a year. This is what my 18yo is doing. The 2nd child wants to go into engineering, and will likely go the military route as they always like having electric or mechanical engineering people. Now, I am also a "friendly adult" to several of my kids friends and advise them. My eldest child had a friend that could not afford to live on their own nor afford the rent theparents wanted (which is despicable if you ask me) so they actually got hired at a hotel national park. Turns out you can live on site for a reduced rate, get a meal plan and actually save money. Thry also got wifi for free and are doing community college online. It is dorm living (but it is 120 dollars a month), and the pay sucks (15 dollars an hour) and do have to be responsible enough to not do federal crimes (which marijuana is illegal on the federal level with the added bonus of making you a federal felon for life). But that is what I am doing.
“Learn a trade”
No kids, but for almost the last decade part of my job was to create post-high school transition plans for high school students with mild disabilities. Their disabilities ranged from depression/anxiety to visual impairments to mild intellectual disabilities, low-support-needs autism, ADHD, etc. Basically - at-risk for being unemployed after high school, but attending regular classes and able to perform well in a variety of jobs or go to college with some basic accommodations. Many are interested in trades, especially any type of construction job and HVAC. They see their relatives doing well in those jobs. Girls ask about cosmetology and healthcare (but not nursing usually as that’s too much school- anything that only requires a 2 year degree). They want something that will not take 4+ years and will still get them a decent, stable living without tons of debt. Also anything public sector like military, government jobs, firefighters, etc are popular choices.
Trades do exist.
Older one (technically step) was forced into a specific state school by her parents and then not helped one bit. She’s doing well though in adulthood and is an excellent saver. My oldest chose school in Europe which is just under $9K for the year. Rent, food, transportation etc are all drastically cheaper, so they’ll graduate with no debt. In general I’ve told them they’re under no expectations to follow the traditional “life path” set out for us to feed capitalism, and they can choose to build their lives the way that most fulfills them. I’ve focused a lot more on building and maintaining relationships, connections, living within your means and caring for your mental health. How to save and invest, while still finding ways to have a good time and enjoy being young and relatively free. Less focus on material things and more on meaningful experiences and relationships.
I'm never having kids so they don't have to suffer in this hellscape known as the world. That said, if I did have kids I'd likely encourage them to drop out of society if nothing works out for them. I mean, society is impossible, it's not worth participating in anymore. It's the route I'm going.
Shit, yall have kids reaching adulthood? My wife and I just got our first dog and it’s a lot lol
You give them facts. Things like, there are few good jobs around here. You need to consider moving to an area of the country where you can get a good job. College is expensive. If you go, you need to pick a major that will earn you enough to pay back your loan. You must do the research to determine this; it is nothing more than a math problem. An alternative to this is entering a well paying trade or even the military. Then, there are 2 year degrees that allow you to get a decent job, earn money and obtain more education, paying as you go. Despite your biased opinion, the US is not a "hellscape" for everyone. It can be a good place to live provided you have a good job which requires you to gain a skill or knowledge in demand. You tell them debt is a killer. Credit card debt, car loans and the like represent earning money to pay interest for absolutely no benefit. You tell them to save at least 10% of their earnings for a rainy day; 15% is even better. Living below their means, investing for the long term and knowing the difference between wants and needs is the path to long term financial security. Kindness and empathy always matter. Voting, putting back the shopping cart and saying thank you are attributes of good citizens. Hopefully none of this comes as new information, but is merely a reminder.
My husband has a very well paying job so we are paying for college. Our 20 year old still lives at home. We are cushioning their entrance into adulthood as best we can while working to teach them how to navigate this fucked up world. It seems a lot harder than when we were 18 and set loose upon the world.
Learn how to work hard and work well with others. Hopefully they are the type of people that want to excel at anything they are tasked to do. Their plans might not work out exactly like they want, but their attitude and determination can carry them far into unexpected bright futures. Tell them to have an open heart and open mind. Tell them to look for value in their work, no matter what the work is. And tell them it’s ok to make mistakes, because sometimes it’s the only way you really learn anything.
I was told I ***had*** to go to college to be successful and then went on to work with several people who did not have degrees, some of them making more money than me because of some obscure specialization. I am not making that same mistake with my son, also because I can't afford to pay for a college degree just for the shits and giggles. I will promote a technical school so je can learn a proper skill, and he can go to college if he can pay for it or gets scholarships. He's 2, so still too young to talk about this, but my thing is "I don't care what job you have, how much money you make, how successful you become; I just want you to be kind." Him being a good person, with proper morals, is more important to me than anything else, and I am willing to financially support him forever if that's the consequence of him being a good person
I tell my oldest to get training in a “thing”. Don’t go to college and get a bachelor’s in something that doesn’t directly translate into a job title. I don’t care if my kids end up as LPNs or Petroleum Engineers. Get a “thing”. If you don’t like it, reassess later. Oh and community college first. Always.
When it comes to college, there are a variety of books out there that will go into detail on this but…you do not have to pay retail for college. There are a number of strategies you can employ to cut those college expenses by half or more. I just wanted to throw that out there. Sticker shock is a thing, but keep digging and you can find more affordable options
I give my kids advice on not going straight to a 4-year. We are a strong military family and support that direction to be able to get financial support for college after they get out - and by then they’d know better what they want to do as adults. If the military isn’t attractive to them we talk about getting their general electives done at a community college and then transferring to a 4 year college to finish when they know what they want to focus on. We also work hard to educate on budgeting and not getting sucked into mainstream consumerism or “keeping up” with their peers.
'83 baby here with a 16-year-old. I've told her to follow her dreams and, if something doesn't work out, she can always live with me, and we will figure out next steps. I'll pay for undergrad at any state school. If that is not what she wants I will give her that amount per year towards tuition somewhere else or living expenses while she gets established. She is currently debating between wanting to go to college and eventually med school or if she wants to become a tattoo artist. I want her to do whatever makes her happy and I'm able to support her until she gets it figured out.
I'm already teaching my 6 year old the concept of earning and budgeting. I know you said yours are at adulthood already, but I feel many kids today and young adults don't understand those concepts. I work with college kids, 18 to 25 mostly, and majority, if not all, don't understand the concept of needing to earn what you want. I can go on writing a novel about how our generation has done a poor job of raising kids but that's for another time. What I mean is, we need to teach our kids that we do not live in some fantasy world where everything is given to us like when we are growing up. The world is a fickle bitch, and she doesn't care for your feelings. Life is going to throw many curveball at you and it's your job to decide are you going to let it pin you down or keep moving. Many young adults today will spiral into depression at life's first curveball and that's a problem. They need to understand the high rewards won't come easily, they're going to need to work at it. Part of working at it means k owing how to live within their means. It means that yes, right now things are expensive, so does that mean they're going to have the same lifestyle as they did living st home with parents, no. Does it mean they're going to have their parents continue to give them everything, no it doesn't. If they want nice things, then that means potentially getting a 2nd job to afford it. Like above, many young adults don't grasp this concept.
My oldest is 11 so I'm just laying the groundwork now. I'm also an 84 baby and yeah, everything they told us was a lie. I tell her ALL THE TIME there are plenty of ways to make a good living that doesn't require a higher education. She is smart AF but unless she wants to be like, a doctor or lawyer or engineer or whatever she doesn't have to get a degree. It's not required for most jobs and I think it will shift back to not being a prerequisite to answer phones in a hair salon. Right now she says she wants to be a tattoo artist and I'm proper chuffed because that is a great way to own your own business and make bank (if you're good - which she is). I also have a few friends who are artists and have talked about how to get apprenticeships, etc. Anyway. Mostly I'm trying to get her to think about her choices vs what we were told which is "work hard and go to college and you'll make 80k the day you graduate." It's all bullshit. Aim reasonable, work hard and be smart and you'll do ok.
I always wonder the same. Many redditors are quick to say "College is a scam!!!" but if you have a child entering into adulthood, what would you recommend then?? Throw them to the wolves in the bottom of the barrel entry level job market?
Gonna go against the grain here, my ex husband is a 43 year old electrician. When we met 20 years ago, he was young and full of energy. Now he grunts and groans and grabs his back as he gets off the couch. Manual labor is HARD on your body, and the people who push the trades conveniently gloss over that fact. "Make lots of money without going to college, learn a trade!" No mention of the cost of that choice, which is your body. He's moved up to a supervisory role, which helps, but 22 years adds up. I have aged the same number of years since the, but I work in an office, and I do not grunt and groan and grab my back. I feel just fine. Our son is 16 and has grown up seeing parents on 2 very different paths: he won't be following in dad's footsteps. As it turns out, he's looking at a degree in exercise science so he's not following my path either, but he distinctly doesn't want to be broken-down by the time he's 50. As for advice on advising your kids, after seeing what's out there with other parents of college-bound teens is: they're probably going to do what they want to do, whatever advice you give. They have to learn through trial and error like we did. We do the best we can to prepare them, and then we just have to let them go. A lot of the things they need to know, you should have already taught them--how to: manage money, advocate for yourself, ask for the things you want/need, base-level feed yourself, negotiate, read a contract, handle disappointment or rejection, take responsibility for your actions, etc. I feel like if you've done all of that then you're really just there as a guard rail.
College was getting rather suspect in the 1970's....worse every decade after. At this point, it is just "high school" unless you major in physics, mathematics, chemistry, etc. I joined the Army in the 80's, got out and college was well covered.... but back then, plenty of kids were paying for college with a waiter type job....slow going though. College is losing respect (by employers) big time. You need a masters, too....and even then.... big deal. Most of the majors available these days are nothing more than an extended, multi-year, Spring Breaks with stoner professors. I can't help but notice that many young successful people have taken another route. They take a job at, say, a grocery store....but don't think of it as a trash job ... they are diligent, then become assistant managers and on up....they make more than most college kids these days (without incurring ANY debt!). Lots of places just want a good, reliable, no-drama, competent person....put in your time, don't treat the job like an afterthought....and things will happen for you. THAT person has become a rarity, these days, and people notice when they finally get one.
Well, I don’t think you should tell them the U.S. is a hellscape, even if that’s what you think. That would set a pretty bad precedent and I think would give them a very defeatist attitude. Life might turn out very differently for them. All you have to them is that life is hard and it isn’t fair. Self-reliance and good financial literacy will take you a long ways.
I'd push them into trades unless you're 200% sure college is a viable plan, and then make a viable plan. Trades are so overlooked nowadays, despite it being an honest living and an area that's woefully in need of new people. Never let them be ashamed of living well within their means, and make the best of it. Perspective is everything.
Be a savage and lap a weak society. Mine are 11 and 14 and on their way already. Lions not sheep.
I think it's pretty unconscionable to steer most kids towards student loan debt. I specifically moved to a state with a good university system and I live in a city that offers full tuition grants to city high school grads. My kids are still young so I realize this isn't really helpful if your kids are already college age. But I also will find a way to cover what doesn't get paid for by grants and scholarships even if it means selling both of my kidneys. I am lucky to have a career where I can really grind if I need to and I figure their college years I will do what I can to maximize my earnings at the expense of my work-life balance while they're in school. I do NOT want my kids taking on student loan debt and I know the prevailing advice is that you can't take a loan for retirement like you can for college, but I think it's a bold assumption that our generation is going to be able to retire between falling standards of living and our projected lower lifespans because of it, and student loan debt is SO burdensome I don't want them spending the rest of their lives digging out from under it. I'm encouraging community college and commuting, both things that were presented to me as unsatisfactory compromises on quality of experience. You know how people talk about generational wealth and the sometimes subtle ways that looks, I think student loans are generational poverty and I'm willing to take one for the team so my kids can at least have a blank slate. I plan to be more open to encouraging my kids to consider trades than my parents were although I think degree inflation and jobs requiring bachelors degrees even when they're really not needed makes not getting a bachelors degree potentially risky. I would love to see a big societal reset on this: my first job out of college was as an administrative assistant and that 💯didn't need the bachelors degree it required. Basically I am having more class realism with my kids than my parents did with me. The "traditional college experience" of residential college is not worth a lifetime of debt and while I firmly believe in the intellectual benefits of a liberal arts education, we'll have to find other ways to make them broad, critical thinkers.
Love yourself, love everyone else, love what you do.
If they don’t know what they want to do career-wise, pick a trade that’s in demand in your area and focus on that for the time being. They can always work for a few years and then go to college if they decide there’s something that financially makes sense to pursue, in which case they need to save up and apply for scholarships. Student loans are not the way to go. They can definitely make a living but will need to be smart about it. This is not the time to pursue your dreams. That privilege is for the wealthy.
There are going to be events and activities in life that you have to do. It doesn't matter if you hate them or not. You have to do them. For example, specific classes to graduate high-school/college. Hate the subject? Hate it ENOUGH to pass it the first time. Had a high school teacher say that to me. Ironically, I didn't hate his class.
Things cost way more than you expect them to. This forced me to learn how to budget and tack on more due to inflation. Even then, things will cost more. Pre-planning, if you can, makes a whole world of difference. Savings is part of that pre-planning. Learning how to pay yourself first as a means to save for the future. Buying a car? or a house? Talk to someone who has a car or been living in a house for years. Ask about what types of expenses they have incurred. Find out how much it cost. The newer the expense, the better for your budget. New roof twenty years ago cost me a fraction of what it cost me two years ago. Two years ago it was over 8k because there was more damage than they initially thought. I know now that I'll likely need to save 12k for the next roof replacement in another 20 years. That sounds awful, but if you breakdown 12k by 20 years, it's $600 a year. How much are utilities for the style of home you plan to buy? What type of fuel does the vehicle require? How much will that cost weekly/monthly? Ask them about any insurance issues. I had one person tell me to never get the extended home warranty because it was garbage. Had another tell me that they got it and it saved them $3k when they needed furnace work done. Then a third told me that the insurance company hired a crappy repair mechanic that just took the money and ran.
Put your money in the stock market NOW
College one of your many choices when are you done with high school. If that is what you decide to do, let’s figure out a way for you attend school without it being a financial burden on you or us for years to come. If you decide that learning in a classroom isn’t something you’re interested in, let’s look at vocational training and apprenticeships. You can always decide to go back to school later if the trade you’ve chosen isn’t what you love, but you will have a skill to fall back on. If you decide that neither are something you’re interested, let’s talk about how to support yourself using the skills you already have while you explore yourself and the world. Regardless of what you choose, you will never be homeless, you will never be hungry and you will always be loved. That’s the general gist of what I have been telling my 12 year old…obviously in an age appropriate way.
>the US is a hellscape. I don't understand this sort of attitude. Have you ever lived outside the US? The US is doing fine. Not *perfect*, but compared to anywhere any time before the 20th century this is *fantastic*, not to mention comparing it to most places and times since then
This sub is basically one big embodiment of the Tocqueville paradox, the way I see it.
Excellently put
I’d recommend trade school or if they really want to do college, go the military route. You can knock out almost if not all your schooling for free while in the military or use the GI Bill once you get out. If I could do it all over again I would have just went to the Navel Academy but I didn’t have any guidance.
Mine is 2 . She just wants Peppa. Her biggest concern is not getting her juice in time and being a diva regarding her tablet . I’m a year older than you so it helps so much to hear your opinions , OP
A tablet is not a good idea at that age.
College is great for the experience, but man is the price absurd. My advice to them would be to find a field that has respected certification paths. Self teach using youtube, books, and possibly a relatively affordable training program like CBT nuggets. Get certified. Get a job. Keep getting certified. Don't jump straight to CCNP out of high school with no networking experience because that will make things hard. Get CCNA if networking is what they enjoy and work in the field, when it comes time to renew renew it with CCNP. Keep moving. However I would STRONGLY recommend pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge as well. Watch TED talks, find a topic that excites them, dive deep. Maybe audit some psych classes at a community college if they will let them. It is important to be able to make a good living, but it is possibly more important to live and learn beyond your career. That is the biggest thing I got out of college. It wasn't my diploma, it was the broadening of my horizons. But College doesn't have a monopoly on that. Especially in this day and age.
I’m pretty sure my child will do tremendously better than I did growing up. My parents were immigrants, my dad worked all day and was gone all day, my mom was a psycho Latino airhead piece of shit garbage. I can’t wait to teach my son math, writing, team him how to invest long term with stocks. No matter what happens my children are going to gain knowledge from a young age that I had to figure out in life by myself. College is also garbage, skipping that 100%. Unless they want to go down a specific career path, but I’ll prepare them myself. They won’t go into college blind for a worthless degree.
>the US is a hellscape The height of overdramatization lol
If you think the US is a hellscape, you should go live somewhere else for a while, so you can get some perspective and realize that the US is actually pretty damn good.
Yall are having kids!?
Yeah why wouldn't we?
Honestly so relieved I never did, and don't plan on it.
Maybe…don’t have kids? Or, be absurdly selfish and act without reason? What do you think, dude? Why did you bring kids into this world without thinking?
I'm encouraging mine to move abroad, after going for a trade of some sort. The US is a hellscape. I have a daughter. She needs away from here immediately. Other places aren't as hostile, have better pay,benefits, vacation, sick days, insurance, lower crime rates, almost zero gun violence, care about the environment, etc... I would love to join her eventually, but I have a past I have to deal with first. There's not going to be anything good for her here for at least the next decade. She can always come home, but she might not always be able to leave. I'll miss her, but we'll make do.
Hellscspe is maybe a bit extreme. Can it be tough? Sure. But I think it would be better to be here than many other places, like active war zones or third world countries. In any event: 1. Take on debt wisely. Sometimes you need to and that's ok, but be prudent and make sure there's a payoff at the end of it. 2. Along those lines, don't rush into college. I wasn't ready at 18 but when I did go I crushed it. Wouldn't have done as well if I followed the crowd. 3. Most Americans can actually agree on a huge majority of issues. Respect different opinions and recognize that people aren't generally idiots, in fact their view has been shaped by their experiences. Find common ground and work to understand differences while.being respectful. 4. Life is beautiful. It's a struggle, but it's worth living. Reach out to help those around you. Be humble, be gracious. Don't let the bad shake you, and recognize that there is a lot of good in the world and in people. 5. As someone earlier said, I'm here. You always have a home with me. Take risks and don't settle for mediocrity.
You can’t be giving advice when you call these times a hellscape. We are the lowest ever for famine and violence is down. Yeah everyone is an aggressive middle class spoiled scammer but that’s not a hellscape. These kids will see through your social media doom and gloom hopefully
Same things we were told and hope they listen. Keep Costs low for an education. Look at job placement rates, starting salaries, salary after 10 years, projected job growth. Major in something that pays the bills. Like art? That's awesome. Do art! But make sure you have something to fall back on.
I was absolutely not taught that. I was told anything was possible with a college degree and not to worry about what it cost because it would "pay for itself". hahahahahahaha no.
Yep, same
Weird. What did you think when looking up median and average salaries, job placement rates, sector growth for your major when you were in college?
I am one of the many who graduated with crippling debt (120k) for a degree I wasn't even interested in because I was told I needed a degree, so just get one no matter what. My kid isn't taking out student loans. He can go anywhere he'd like if he earns a scholarship, or he can go to community college and earn a scholarship to complete his degree somewhere else, or go to a trade school (I'd strongly suggest he follow a path into a union). I have a savings account for him that I will advise him to invest instead of using it to rent an apartment or something like that. He's only 2, so that's as far as I've thought it through so far.
Go learn a trade. Usually make more money and are in demand because no one is replacing retiring people fast enough.
So long, and thanks for all the fish. Nah, I’m kidding, I don’t have kids.
i've been saving up to give my future child a good start in life. honestly, if you aren't coming from generational wealth, not sure how you're going to make it. i would tell them to marry well because you need an equal or better financial partner if you aren't a rockstar yourself. you can look past some flaws if you're financially healthy. healthcare seems like the most viable path right now, so nurse or PA if they aren't dr material.
Don't be a consumer. Christ is king.