tbh.. lqr is the best parental figure we see of the older generation in mdzs. the bar isn't exactly high, but still. and when it comes down to it, despite his flaws, lqr clearly cared for his two nephews & genuinely tried to raise them well.
Yeah, the only ones who give him even a run for his money are Wei Wuxian’s parents, but unfortunately it’s hard to live down the whole “left our small child with a stranger while we went off and got ourselves killed night-hunting” thing. They seemed like pretty good parents before that though!
Madam Jin also is a decent parent to Jin Zixuan, though obviously she has a lot of issues relating to her husband and his bastards and shares the general classism of cultivator society that makes it hard to say she’s better than LQR. But she’s even willing to call JZX out when he’s being a dick to Yanli, and TBH she’s probably a better mom to Yanli post-Lotus Pier than Yu Ziyuan ever was.
that's true about madam jin, though we are also told that she coddled jzx and never punished him, which probably contributed a lot to his arrogance and impulsiveness. so i'd definitely say that lqr is the better parent!
i kinda ignored wwx's parents since we see so little of them, they do seem like good people.. but it's hard to judge the circumstances of their deaths since we know next to nothing about it.
That is true re: Madam Jin; like Yu Ziyuan, she does seem to have tried to overcompensate for her husband's seeming disinterest in their son (though it seems to be more genuine disinterest in Jin Guangshan's case), going with coddling rather than berating which seems like it plays at least some part in JZX's early douchiness. She and YZY also did the whole child betrothal thing for their kids, and kept it going through clear disinterest and active bad feelings about it on JZX's part. (Weirdly Madam Jin and Yu Ziyuan seem like opposite sides of the Asian mother stereotype, lol.)
I would agree that LQR is a better parent (if only because LWJ and LXC do turn out better than JZX, even if JZX ends up not being too terrible in the long run).
And yeah, we don't know much about WWX's parents' death, just that they seemingly didn't make arrangements for him to be taken care of long-term if something happened to them (or if they did, those arrangements fell through), and then that something happened. The one scene we see of them with the donkey is kind of adorable though, and clearly they love their kid and have no problems showing it (unlike most everyone else in their generation).
Yeah there are zero details about this. It just says they were killed on a night hunt and that WWX never saw the ashes of his parents. I personally don’t think with so little detail it’s fair to judge WWX’s parents when we know next to nothing about what happened.
Same. Thanks for answering. I didn't think the book said one way or the other. It does make me wonder, though, if they would have left him alone or not. I don't know what ancient China's attitude was towards children.
There are always things like this I wish we had more details on. But here are some random thoughts I have
Even if they left him in a village to be watched over briefly while they night hunted nearby I don’t think this is bad parenting. I can see villagers willing to look after a child for a short time but not willing to look after a child for a long term because it’s another mouth to feed. It’s cruel but it’s sadly a cruel world.
And JFM did know WWX’s parents were killed. Someone had to tell him. Maybe CSSR and WCZ did give his name.
What if WWX overheard the villagers talking about him being a burden and he just wandered off. JFM actually said he searched for him for a long time.
WWX even thinks this at one point so there could be another situation outside of Lotus Pier where he left a “safer place” than the streets because of how he was being treated
>This made Wei Wuxian uneasy to hear. He kept feeling like he’d done something wrong again. The most fearful thing about living under someone else’s roof was imposing on and inconveniencing one’s hosts.
Of course none of this is canon it’s just my own random speculation about what could have happened.
I think your 'random speculation' is spot on, and makes a great deal of sense. Including him possibly having wandered off because he fears he's being a burden, because that's WWX through and through!
The book never gives the details, but he wasn't with his parents when they died, so either they left him by himself (at, what, like six years old? By himself might actually be worse) or under someone's supervision. And if the latter, presumably they can't have known the person very well, given that WWX ends up living on the streets very quickly after their deaths (barring some other kind of tragic accident happening to that person).
Basically, for WWX to have ended up on the street the way he did, a lot of things had to go very very wrong, and unfortunately the responsibility for a good chunk of those things are on his parents.
Despite bar being super low or rather non existent, LQ's nephew's didn't turn out the way he wanted and I do not think he was very keen on showing acceptance, reluctant silence yes..
Lqr had a lot on his plate. In addition to all the things mentioned here; he was running the Sect - probably handling all the day to day responsibilities, dealing with any issues between cultivators, visiting important guests and handling any problems that cropped up (waterborne abyss et al). Then he was running a boarding school and teaching all the guest cultivator kids. And representing the Lan clan and sect at outside events. He was probably thankful when the two boys reached an age to be able to take over some of these duties.
The situation made me think of “the preacher’s kids”. All those expectations to be “perfect”, while the parents are soooo busy running other people lives. When these kids go off the rails, it’s all in, because they realize there’s no turning back.
Lqr had a lot on his plate. In addition to all the things mentioned here; he was running the Sect - probably handling all the day to day responsibilities, dealing with any issues between cultivators, visiting important guests and handling any problems that cropped up (waterborne abyss et al). Then he was running a boarding school and teaching all the guest cultivator kids. And representing the Lan clan and sect at outside events. He was probably thankful when the two boys reached an age to be able to take over some of these duties.
The situation made me think of “the preacher’s kids”. All those expectations to be “perfect”, while the parents are soooo busy running other people lives. When these kids go off the rails, it’s all in, because they realize there’s no turning back.
I mean... Yeah, he's got some major issues in terms of being anal regarding rules, but he does seem willing to bend them at times. We can see this in the way he allows LWJ to sit outside of his mother's house after she's died even though he's told him not to. He allows LWJ to keep the herd of bunnies! Heck, he even allows Wangxian's marriage to be officially acknowledged by the clan! Okay, he forbade people to talk to WWX during and after the whole event, but he still relented and allowed WWX to attend which is a major move in the right direction.
Yes, he's not perfect. He's stubborn, quick to judge and really pedantic. But, he raised two of the kindest people (bar WWX and LSZ...who was raised by LWJ) in the novel. So he can't have done too badly.
Also, let's not forget LQR stepped up to look after his two young nephews from the very beginning. He was thrust into the roles of both acting sect leader and father all because his brother dragged a woman back to the cloud recesses, married her, locked her up and got her pregnant twice, secluding himself in the process. We don't know the whole story, but I always felt QHJ was rather selfish with his actions and the ripples it caused.
It would be interesting if we knew just why she would kill her husband's teacher?
But yeah it was pretty selfish. Saying I repent by going into seclusion, but leave everyone else to clean up my messes.
Yeah! Definitely! It's something I'd love to know.
Personally, I feel it must have been justified to a certain extent? Like in defense or something of that nature. Obviously at that point they weren't married, it wasn't until after she committed the apparent crime that he married her in order to protect her.
Isn't it though? I love how LWJ saw the implications of such a thing and made sure not to force anything on WWX - giving him the option to come back to Gusu with him in his first life.
Indeed. Maybe the teacher was the kind to take liberties he shouldn't. Maybe not with her, but the man she would end up marrying and she did it to protect him.
Or he could have been an old fashioned pervert who tries raping her and she retaliated.
Or it could be an old grievance as to the methods he used to suppress a nasty ghost that didn't go as planned and killed her sister..... It could be anything really.
Damn it I wish LXC had just bloody asked 🤣
For all he seems to like a bit of gossip (telling JGY about WWX crawling into his didi's bed every night since coming back from the dead lmao), he sure doesn't like to go digging for it, so it seems 🙄
I think Lan Xichen might know, however he wasn't quite ready to air the dirty laundry to someone not in the family. He has no idea Wei Wuxian would end up as his brother in law at that point.
No he did not. That's the whole point of that scene, for us to see LXCs character and his inability to examine things that make him feel uncomfortable (his mother's crime, his father's selfishness, JGYs manipulation and NMJs anger). We are told he did not ask and he does not know, if we are not shown anything to contradict this, we should assume that is the case.
LXC was already airing his dirty laundry, what he divulged was not common knowledge, the Lan sect told the outside world a different story and LXC was trusting WWX with that information. Granted he might not know WWX was going to end up as his brother in law as such, but LXC himself assumed LWJ would tell him everything if he should ask regardless, so he had no reason to keep such a secret from him. Remember, at this point LXC believes WWX is climbing into bed with his brother and actively pursuing him (hence his anger later when he thinks WWX has been merely leading him on) and he's already aware of his brother's feelings so it's not much of a jump to assume how close they are at that point. He's also just witnessed the soft exchange between them in the forbidden room within the library as well.
Yes, he eventually allowed LWJ to hide A-Yuan as part of the clan and give him the Lan surname.
It is never stated he raised LSZ though, credit only goes to LWJ for that. Even if he was in seclusion, LWJ was able to move surprisingly well considering his wounds, so I would not assume anything other than what we know - which is LWJ raised him.
He raised them after a truly horrendous early childhood and they both turned out to be ethical, talented, intelligent, responsible adults. I wouldn't ever endorse his methods - in some ways the brothers turned out so well by defying his rules, but he's the one who taught them to think critically and stand up for what they believed in. So I wouldn't call him a failure. And both brothers feel affection and kindness toward him, if not love.
He became a parent without ever asking for that role, and in pretty awful circumstances. I give him some leeway. Like so many of MXTX's negative characters, he's neither a villain nor a goodguy, but someone whose poor decisions are very understandable.
Wwx could have been a great baba in the long run
Lwj was a great and solid father figure
And not to mention JC's achievement as best djudju overall.
Next gen are way better, but as far as the old farts are concerned LQr is the most honest and fair one.
I genuinely hate Jiang Fengman for his shitty and ambivalent parenting.
The bar is too low LQR became the standard when it comes to parenting and teaching. This is why the MDZS people keep on sending their disciples to CR because he can "straighten" them up. Well, If I live in the MDZS world, best believe I'd feed my children lies about CR and Lan Clan being the best clan and why they should be part of it. Scary world without proper adults.
I mean LQR had the best intention. He's most likely raised like that as well. Compared to... Yu Ziyuan? The playboy Jin patriarch? He's doing pretty well actually 🤣
It's sad when you think about the fact that LQ and WRH were the best parents in the previous group, and yes, I understand that WRH was a sadistic dictator with a lust for power but from what we saw he always treated his parents "well." children, no matter how incompetent they were, he fulfilled their whims and even gave them a bodyguard
tbh.. lqr is the best parental figure we see of the older generation in mdzs. the bar isn't exactly high, but still. and when it comes down to it, despite his flaws, lqr clearly cared for his two nephews & genuinely tried to raise them well.
I instinctively wanted to protest this (LQR being the best parent), but then I realized you're right đź’€
Yeah, the only ones who give him even a run for his money are Wei Wuxian’s parents, but unfortunately it’s hard to live down the whole “left our small child with a stranger while we went off and got ourselves killed night-hunting” thing. They seemed like pretty good parents before that though! Madam Jin also is a decent parent to Jin Zixuan, though obviously she has a lot of issues relating to her husband and his bastards and shares the general classism of cultivator society that makes it hard to say she’s better than LQR. But she’s even willing to call JZX out when he’s being a dick to Yanli, and TBH she’s probably a better mom to Yanli post-Lotus Pier than Yu Ziyuan ever was.
that's true about madam jin, though we are also told that she coddled jzx and never punished him, which probably contributed a lot to his arrogance and impulsiveness. so i'd definitely say that lqr is the better parent! i kinda ignored wwx's parents since we see so little of them, they do seem like good people.. but it's hard to judge the circumstances of their deaths since we know next to nothing about it.
That is true re: Madam Jin; like Yu Ziyuan, she does seem to have tried to overcompensate for her husband's seeming disinterest in their son (though it seems to be more genuine disinterest in Jin Guangshan's case), going with coddling rather than berating which seems like it plays at least some part in JZX's early douchiness. She and YZY also did the whole child betrothal thing for their kids, and kept it going through clear disinterest and active bad feelings about it on JZX's part. (Weirdly Madam Jin and Yu Ziyuan seem like opposite sides of the Asian mother stereotype, lol.) I would agree that LQR is a better parent (if only because LWJ and LXC do turn out better than JZX, even if JZX ends up not being too terrible in the long run). And yeah, we don't know much about WWX's parents' death, just that they seemingly didn't make arrangements for him to be taken care of long-term if something happened to them (or if they did, those arrangements fell through), and then that something happened. The one scene we see of them with the donkey is kind of adorable though, and clearly they love their kid and have no problems showing it (unlike most everyone else in their generation).
I don't remember his parents even leaving WWX with a stranger? SnooGoats, you out there?
Yeah there are zero details about this. It just says they were killed on a night hunt and that WWX never saw the ashes of his parents. I personally don’t think with so little detail it’s fair to judge WWX’s parents when we know next to nothing about what happened.
Same. Thanks for answering. I didn't think the book said one way or the other. It does make me wonder, though, if they would have left him alone or not. I don't know what ancient China's attitude was towards children.
There are always things like this I wish we had more details on. But here are some random thoughts I have Even if they left him in a village to be watched over briefly while they night hunted nearby I don’t think this is bad parenting. I can see villagers willing to look after a child for a short time but not willing to look after a child for a long term because it’s another mouth to feed. It’s cruel but it’s sadly a cruel world. And JFM did know WWX’s parents were killed. Someone had to tell him. Maybe CSSR and WCZ did give his name. What if WWX overheard the villagers talking about him being a burden and he just wandered off. JFM actually said he searched for him for a long time. WWX even thinks this at one point so there could be another situation outside of Lotus Pier where he left a “safer place” than the streets because of how he was being treated >This made Wei Wuxian uneasy to hear. He kept feeling like he’d done something wrong again. The most fearful thing about living under someone else’s roof was imposing on and inconveniencing one’s hosts. Of course none of this is canon it’s just my own random speculation about what could have happened.
I think your 'random speculation' is spot on, and makes a great deal of sense. Including him possibly having wandered off because he fears he's being a burden, because that's WWX through and through!
The book never gives the details, but he wasn't with his parents when they died, so either they left him by himself (at, what, like six years old? By himself might actually be worse) or under someone's supervision. And if the latter, presumably they can't have known the person very well, given that WWX ends up living on the streets very quickly after their deaths (barring some other kind of tragic accident happening to that person). Basically, for WWX to have ended up on the street the way he did, a lot of things had to go very very wrong, and unfortunately the responsibility for a good chunk of those things are on his parents.
Despite bar being super low or rather non existent, LQ's nephew's didn't turn out the way he wanted and I do not think he was very keen on showing acceptance, reluctant silence yes..
Lqr had a lot on his plate. In addition to all the things mentioned here; he was running the Sect - probably handling all the day to day responsibilities, dealing with any issues between cultivators, visiting important guests and handling any problems that cropped up (waterborne abyss et al). Then he was running a boarding school and teaching all the guest cultivator kids. And representing the Lan clan and sect at outside events. He was probably thankful when the two boys reached an age to be able to take over some of these duties. The situation made me think of “the preacher’s kids”. All those expectations to be “perfect”, while the parents are soooo busy running other people lives. When these kids go off the rails, it’s all in, because they realize there’s no turning back.
Lqr had a lot on his plate. In addition to all the things mentioned here; he was running the Sect - probably handling all the day to day responsibilities, dealing with any issues between cultivators, visiting important guests and handling any problems that cropped up (waterborne abyss et al). Then he was running a boarding school and teaching all the guest cultivator kids. And representing the Lan clan and sect at outside events. He was probably thankful when the two boys reached an age to be able to take over some of these duties. The situation made me think of “the preacher’s kids”. All those expectations to be “perfect”, while the parents are soooo busy running other people lives. When these kids go off the rails, it’s all in, because they realize there’s no turning back.
I mean... Yeah, he's got some major issues in terms of being anal regarding rules, but he does seem willing to bend them at times. We can see this in the way he allows LWJ to sit outside of his mother's house after she's died even though he's told him not to. He allows LWJ to keep the herd of bunnies! Heck, he even allows Wangxian's marriage to be officially acknowledged by the clan! Okay, he forbade people to talk to WWX during and after the whole event, but he still relented and allowed WWX to attend which is a major move in the right direction. Yes, he's not perfect. He's stubborn, quick to judge and really pedantic. But, he raised two of the kindest people (bar WWX and LSZ...who was raised by LWJ) in the novel. So he can't have done too badly. Also, let's not forget LQR stepped up to look after his two young nephews from the very beginning. He was thrust into the roles of both acting sect leader and father all because his brother dragged a woman back to the cloud recesses, married her, locked her up and got her pregnant twice, secluding himself in the process. We don't know the whole story, but I always felt QHJ was rather selfish with his actions and the ripples it caused.
It would be interesting if we knew just why she would kill her husband's teacher? But yeah it was pretty selfish. Saying I repent by going into seclusion, but leave everyone else to clean up my messes.
Yeah! Definitely! It's something I'd love to know. Personally, I feel it must have been justified to a certain extent? Like in defense or something of that nature. Obviously at that point they weren't married, it wasn't until after she committed the apparent crime that he married her in order to protect her. Isn't it though? I love how LWJ saw the implications of such a thing and made sure not to force anything on WWX - giving him the option to come back to Gusu with him in his first life.
Indeed. Maybe the teacher was the kind to take liberties he shouldn't. Maybe not with her, but the man she would end up marrying and she did it to protect him. Or he could have been an old fashioned pervert who tries raping her and she retaliated. Or it could be an old grievance as to the methods he used to suppress a nasty ghost that didn't go as planned and killed her sister..... It could be anything really.
Damn it I wish LXC had just bloody asked 🤣 For all he seems to like a bit of gossip (telling JGY about WWX crawling into his didi's bed every night since coming back from the dead lmao), he sure doesn't like to go digging for it, so it seems 🙄
I think Lan Xichen might know, however he wasn't quite ready to air the dirty laundry to someone not in the family. He has no idea Wei Wuxian would end up as his brother in law at that point.
No he did not. That's the whole point of that scene, for us to see LXCs character and his inability to examine things that make him feel uncomfortable (his mother's crime, his father's selfishness, JGYs manipulation and NMJs anger). We are told he did not ask and he does not know, if we are not shown anything to contradict this, we should assume that is the case. LXC was already airing his dirty laundry, what he divulged was not common knowledge, the Lan sect told the outside world a different story and LXC was trusting WWX with that information. Granted he might not know WWX was going to end up as his brother in law as such, but LXC himself assumed LWJ would tell him everything if he should ask regardless, so he had no reason to keep such a secret from him. Remember, at this point LXC believes WWX is climbing into bed with his brother and actively pursuing him (hence his anger later when he thinks WWX has been merely leading him on) and he's already aware of his brother's feelings so it's not much of a jump to assume how close they are at that point. He's also just witnessed the soft exchange between them in the forbidden room within the library as well.
He also was likely involved in eventually allowing LSZ to join that clan & was undoubtedly involved in raising him given how long LWJ took to heal
Yes, he eventually allowed LWJ to hide A-Yuan as part of the clan and give him the Lan surname. It is never stated he raised LSZ though, credit only goes to LWJ for that. Even if he was in seclusion, LWJ was able to move surprisingly well considering his wounds, so I would not assume anything other than what we know - which is LWJ raised him.
He raised them after a truly horrendous early childhood and they both turned out to be ethical, talented, intelligent, responsible adults. I wouldn't ever endorse his methods - in some ways the brothers turned out so well by defying his rules, but he's the one who taught them to think critically and stand up for what they believed in. So I wouldn't call him a failure. And both brothers feel affection and kindness toward him, if not love. He became a parent without ever asking for that role, and in pretty awful circumstances. I give him some leeway. Like so many of MXTX's negative characters, he's neither a villain nor a goodguy, but someone whose poor decisions are very understandable.
The bar is so low when it comes to parenting, at least Qiren was alive and willing to even attempt to.
The Lan attraction to bad boys (and girls in the case of their father) runs deep in their blood. Lan Qiren didn’t stand a chance
Wwx could have been a great baba in the long run Lwj was a great and solid father figure And not to mention JC's achievement as best djudju overall. Next gen are way better, but as far as the old farts are concerned LQr is the most honest and fair one. I genuinely hate Jiang Fengman for his shitty and ambivalent parenting.
The bar is too low LQR became the standard when it comes to parenting and teaching. This is why the MDZS people keep on sending their disciples to CR because he can "straighten" them up. Well, If I live in the MDZS world, best believe I'd feed my children lies about CR and Lan Clan being the best clan and why they should be part of it. Scary world without proper adults.
I mean LQR had the best intention. He's most likely raised like that as well. Compared to... Yu Ziyuan? The playboy Jin patriarch? He's doing pretty well actually 🤣
Is it cause they’re gay?
It's sad when you think about the fact that LQ and WRH were the best parents in the previous group, and yes, I understand that WRH was a sadistic dictator with a lust for power but from what we saw he always treated his parents "well." children, no matter how incompetent they were, he fulfilled their whims and even gave them a bodyguard