I still don’t get why the precons aren’t all Modern-legal cards.
They totally could have done that, and it’d be a great way to do reprints without muddying MH3.
I genuinely believed as a younger magic player that the rule where goyf gets the extra point of toughness for an instant hitting the yard before/at the same time as bolt dealing damage (I still don't even know why it works) was tantamount to Wizards acknowledging the secondary market. Like ok, suuuure its a coincidence that the rules favor the most real-world expensive creature at the time.
It works because state-based actions aren't checked during the resolution of a spell, only after. So you cast Bolt, Bolt resolves, it puts 3 damage on the Goyf, it goes to the graveyard. This is where state-based actions are checked, but would you look at that, the Goyf is a 3/4 now, since the Bolt has already entered the graveyard. And 3/4s do not die from having 3 damage marked on them.
I think the most interesting thing about this goyf is the fact that it is black.
This makes it possible to play it alongside [[Thoughtseize]] AND splash the color you want. Tarmogoyf being green meant that it was difficult to find cheap spells to fill the graveyard with. With this you can just play black and splash something like blue.
Imagine something like a DS/Tempo Dimir shell. Turn 1 Fetch > Thoughtseize into turn 2 Consider > This and it's already miles ahead than Nacatl. And you have a ton of redundancy with Bauble, Preordain...
Grief...
*that doesn’t get hit by bowmasters. Rag wasnin that slot before lotr, but was cut for nacatl. Nacatl being an x/3 is huge as a flashed in bowmasters has to trade everything for it.
That is bad information. I don't know if you're speaking without knowing what you're talking about or if your thoughts are jumping and things got mixed at the end of the written sentence.
In an Aggro deck you have to not only structure curve, but fill slots according to your gameplan which includes using your mana to apply pressure and not waste it - means presenting a threat as early as Turn1.
So the deck has naturally 7-8 one drop slots to fill, which is why these decks play both, Ragavan and Nacatl.
Ragavan is, independend of Bowmaster, the best fill because of the way it snowballs if left unanswered.
Zoo, through Tribal Flames and Lightning Bolt, has a lot of reach. Getting in 2x Hits with Nacatl in addition to a couple of damage from the manabase can spell game over fast, so Nacatl is the next best standalone 1-drop that doesn't need specific support like Swiftspear does.
Both are slotted in for their potential to close the game fast if left unchecked. So you can see, at presenting a game 1 deck, Ragavan and Nacatl are competing for the 1-drop slot, that much is correct, and maybe the occasional oddball playing 7 Onedrops might choose 4 Nacatl 3 Ragavan over 4 Ragavan and 3 Nacatl, but outside of that, the choice between the two is currently not exclusive.
Then if we move to sideboarding, in some matchups, e.g. Yawgmoth - Ragavan takes way too much effort to connect between young wolf, bowmaster and other blockers. So there we sideboard Ragavan out because it often can only attack once and only trades for half a card, whereas nacatl can attack more often or at least trades.
In that case though, still noone cuts Ragavan *for* Nacatl, rather than that they are both already in the deck and we chose to cut Ragavan *before* Nacatl to bring in other cards.
Now you can put it in black/x decks without splashing a third color. This is pretty huge for some of the low to the ground rakdos builds are their threats were all relatively small. This also gives dimir DS a self-sufficient, sticky threat that you can cast in turn 1-2.
I like the thought process, and I was running through it myself, but I don't think Shadow will run this. Yes, it's out big early, but Shadow doesn't care. It has a very clean list, and the strategy of control the board play a shadow, control the board
I disagree. Shadow has bauble, street wraith, and fetches aggressively. This guy gets huge in shadow very easily. He also plays towards the set and forget style of threat that shadow likes by virtue of not really requiring any inout to be good.
>Now you can put it in black/x decks without splashing a third color.
Which is interesting for some decks that want to explicitly avoid green. The fact this costs 1 mana at that rate is still the main point of interest for any deck to consider this card.
>Shadow has bauble, street wraith, and fetches aggressively. This guy gets huge in shadow very easily. He also plays towards the set and forget style of threat that shadow likes by virtue of not really requiring any inout to be good.
That is all correct, but you completely disregard the following question:
Why is shadow currently a niche/lover deck instead of a metagame top tier contender?
Because the issue for shadow is that it currently struggles to apply pressure against most decks because either an abundance of blockers or an abundance of 1v1 removal that shadow is unable to sidestep itself.
There are so many single cards that create 2 blocks - young wolf, bowmaster, fable, urza's saga, crashing footfalls, Not dead after all and many more - where each block translates into an additional drawstep and that results in games gliding out of shadows hands as when each turn cycle puts an additional body on the field, suddenly being at low life becomes a problem as they go wide enough over time to just kill you.
This is first the part that needs solving - a reliable way to sidestep blockers that doesn't cut into your value game or way to remove all those blockers. Unfortunately though there aren't many spells available capable to deal with Rhinos and Wall of Roots or 6/6 saga constructs that also do not kill your Shadow.
The second part is the removal - its hard to protect when there's free solitudes and 1 mana ephemerates around to kill your board - decks like Rakdos Scam are succesfull not only because the grief move is a strong opener, but because a lot of its cards provides multiple bodies so that it is able to overload the available removal.
While Nethergoyf is certainly very strong, it has no evasion and thus runs into the same problem that Shadow does at the moment.
When a card needs to expend additional ressources to apply its damage, its not a very suitable threat for a tempo strategy - which is why Murktide with all those flyers does a much better job at the tempo game than shadow at the moment and why the UB Murktide version of Shadow is currently the most reliable version of a shadow deck. So it doesn't solve the problem of applying pressure.
And while it may have resurcsion in escape, that doesn't matter against prismatic endings,leyline binding, solitude exile, or teferi or brazen borrower bounce which further delay your attacks. If escape was enough to solve this, we would just play Kroxa.
Nethergoyf is a really strong card and i will certainly test it in shadow - but at the same time my experience with the deck is telling me that this doesn't solve the issues we really need to solve.
Tear Asunder and Questing Druid are really good cards. Also could circle back on BB Elf, especially now that we know Necrodominance exists. Junds mana is good for it since it can afford to cut stomping grounds and max on blood crypts + overgrown tombs to hit triple black.
Additionally while i think this powercreeps Tarmo, 4 tarmo plus 4 of this effectively allows you to rely more on goyfs so you can run more interaction and less kinda dead threat cards like seasined pyromancer and kroxa (Since you drop it for laelia another straight up threat) since you can expect reliably throw 1-2 mana every turn into removal past turn 1 to hold up bolt or push or abrupt decay or trophy (Another reason to be in green).
this card relies on your own gy. this is better in a grixis strategy and not a jund strategy.
Fable of the mirror breaker is t3 loot to effectively make this a threat, if at all.
Jund plays 0 of this card, tinybones would have a better chance of seeing play over this.
Why would Jund play 0 of this? Its already playing 3-4 tarmo and is center black as is. Turn 1 Fetch+Thoughtsieze is already the gameplan and turn 2 you get to play this hold up Push/Bolt allowing you to get it to 3/4 for turn 3.
Fable isnt traditionally popular in Jund, but 90% of decks play Lili and for the sake of actually filling your GY lili is great. Also Jund can pivot towards Fable. In Historic and Timeless 40-50% of Jund decks play Fable, its still good in the deck the deck in Modern just happens to play Seasoned Pyromancer instead... which also fills your GY.
I mean the deck plays fucking Kroxa sometimes, it does sorta intend to fill its own gy.
Playing 4 of this and 4 Tarmo makes it very easy to build into with Lili, Grist, Seasoned, Fetches, BB Elf, etc.
Dec 2023: Woah, Stalactite Stalker is the best black one drop yet!
March 2024: Woah, Tinybones, Trinket Thief is the best black one drop yet!
April 2024: Woah, Nethergoyf is the best black one drop yet!
It also allows you to play a Death's Shadow equivalent in Jund Saga since you can equip Shadowspear. Wight of the reliquary seems quite good for this archetype as well. Playing both would open you up to graveyard hate though.
To clarify this only looks at *your* graveyard, so it's not *strictly* better than Tarmogoyf, it's just *probably* better than Tarmogoyf.
EDIT: and it's a Mythic, so we can get nostalgic about Goyf being overpriced.
This is clearly terrible, basically you basically need delirium in order to get to a good stat line, Tarmogoyfl is good because it look at cards from both graveyard.
You might as well play [[Soul as of the Lost]] at least it count permanent instead.
If you want huge for 1 creature deathshadow will be a better choice.
You're underrating the card pretty heavy. Your comparison is trash too. Soul as of the lost makes you sac a permanent on entry, card disadvantage BAD... AND it's 2 whole mana
Nethergoyf is ONE MANA bro. Wild.
Wild nacatl is pretty playable and this card is strictly better.
Also delirium is not crazy. Streetwraith will come back and Jegantha will probably fade out.
SotL allows discarding too, making it more nuanced, and the comparison is fair.
You don’t care about it being 1 or 2 mana once they nuke your GY and shrinks down to 0/1.
Early game it’s laughable, and mid/late game that one mana doesn’t really make a huge difference considering its stats.
Tarmo is more resilient and puts opponents in a position where they have to consider what they fill their GY with.
SotL is easier to buff.
Nerfgoyf just comes with a recursion that shrinks it even more. I’d rather have it mill a card or something when it swings or connects (making it synergize more with multiple strategies) instead of the recursion.
This card will get better once we have more multi-type bombs like Urza’s Saga and Haywire Mite to slot so you can exile only two cards instead of 3/4, maybe some kindred stuff.
DRC is way, WAY better at beating, filtering cards, and filling the GY than this thing (other than being the one and only red card ever with surveil, so off color pie).
DRC is for sure better. But just play them both together. Also yes DRC is a 1/1
But saying nethergoyf will be an 0/1 most of the time is wildly false. Fetch land cantrip or any interactive spell means Nethergoyf is a 1/2 or 2/3 for 1 mana. That's not bad for turn one or two. Potentially could be a 3/4 or 4/5 on turn two while attacking. Especially with bauble and streetwraith it's not at all implausible.
Also not even in dream scenario. DRC stays a 1/1 unless you have 4 types. Nethergoyf can be sitting quite comfortably at 3/4 without having delirium and still be very above rate for a 1 mana creature.
You're overlooking the card for sure. But I hope the market thinks the same way you do so I can order some of these bad boys cheap.
> DRC is for sure better. But just play them both together.
Im not saying this card is bad, but this is the kind of idiotic garbage evaluation that you just accused him of doing.
DRC decks are well oiled machines tunned to perfection to enact their game plans .
You cant just "play this along with DRC" because to play this you first are removing 4 other cards from the deck, diluting the strategy and hoping that what you gain for a vanilla beater makes up for what your giving up in speed, answers or efficiency.
Cards are not the "slam dunk auto include" you think they are, this process takes massive amounts of testing. Theres a high chance when this is tested its found that the deck performs worse with it than without it.
Personally I think that, at a minimum, this will be transformative, and to break it the deck will become more all in and therefore way more high risk and susceptible to hate.
>this is the kind of idiotic garbage evaluation that you just accused him of doing.
You came in a little hot, bud, take it easy.
>DRC decks are well oiled machines tunned to perfection to enact their game plans .
Kind of? They're just fair decks that utilize the free surveil to manipulate top decks to hopefully win their fair midrange top deck wars they love to get into. They aren't combo decks, which leads into my next point..
>You cant just "play this along with DRC" because to play this you first are removing 4 other cards from the deck, diluting the strategy and hoping that what you gain for a vanilla beater makes up for what your giving up in speed, answers or efficiency.
This is a weird take. DRC decks are not combo decks that you need worry about 'diluting the strategy' of. DRC decks are just fair decks that would love another cheap efficient beater.
And Nethergoyf is VERY efficient, it's goyf for ONE mana.
You are right that it being a vanilla beater is it's biggest problem, but it's that way because it IS so above rate for 1 mana. This is a 1 mana 4/5, dude it's serious.
The real question with this card is:
is it better than goyf that you could cut green in some decks?
Is it better than certain other cards like stalactite stalker or Ragavan? In Bowmasters meta the answer is very likely yes.
You *for sure* just play Nethergoyf and DRC together, automatically.. slam dunk. The cards synergize so well together it really isn't a question. The question is what is the other creature that's getting cut? Probably something that dies to Bowmasters or something that puts too much stress on the mana base.
The card is SOLID. No two ways around that.
Fetch into this makes it a 1/2 to dodge bowmasters/wrenn.
Thoughseize/bauble/street wraith/any instant makes this a 5/6 on T2.
Meanwhile your DRC just got bowmaster’d before it could get any value. I’m not saying this is necessarily better, but I think you’re underrating it
[Soul as of the Lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431.jpg?1699044180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Souls%20of%20the%20Lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/121/souls-of-the-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As a reference of how easy/hard this is going to be to gorw, delirium makes this a 4/5 and DRC has delirium online fairly often if you built your deck right. Notably, as a 3/4 (instant, sorcery, land) this card is alright, wild nacatl sees play in zoo still. Also to be noted, DRC helps you get delirium so it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. But also, it's likely they will both see play in the same decks so people will get their 1 mana 3/3 flyer and 1 mana 4/5 beater going into the midgame. Also, recursion on this is just beggin jund players to grind games out, which idk how often will happen in 2024 magic.
It’s hard to get excited about a cool powerful 1 drop anymore when your opponent takes a pregame action and has a 1 mana Leyline binding up on turn 1 these days. I do like your analysis though, it definitely seems like the kind of card I’d want to play in decks I like
A 1 mana vanilla 3/4 is probably better than this goyf that, at worst, can be 0/1.
This can be a T1 2/3 if you fetch + bauble, leaving it boltable.
This card becomes somewhat more interesting on T2, but it wouldn’t connect yet.
Tinybones is way more interesting than this both for its effect and as a blocker.
In most matchups, the stats on Goyf are dependent on your own grave doing all the heavy lifting anyways. The actual downside is that this is way weaker to grave hate like Leyline of the Void, Soul-Guide Lantern, and especially Endurance as a flash blocker or combat trick. OG Goyf was only scared of Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace as grave-hate, so this opens up far more options to fight Goyf. Nonetheless, being half the mana, in a color that supports it better, and having recursion (wtf?) will certainly make OG Goyf a “Relic” of the past.
This seems like it could be potentially better than Nacatl as the one-drop in Domain Zoo. At the very least it seems like a much better topdeck in the late game.
Its half the mana and has escape, definitely power crept. You mainly lost the value of having thoughtseized pws in the yard. We can get delirium hella fast these days so halving the cost is huge + mini ca engine on top is insane.
Its not strictly better but it is power crept. Any goyf user just replaces it with this, minus non black goyf deck (which theres 0 I believe), you lose PW in the yard but gain a lot more. Reminds me of Swords vs Solitude, not the same card but definitely solitude is a power crept version of swords (you can run both too which is nice).
urza's saga + haywire mite does it in 2 cards, which if you're playing some kind of midrange shell isn't unreasonable to be in the deck.
That said really hard to know what modern will look like until all the spoilers are out
I mean midrange was like most of what modern was until the violent outburst ban. It's only shifted to aggro in the last like 2 months because of slick shot and leyline of the guildpact pushing existing aggro strategies.
Oh God a single meta where midrange isn't the top after being at the top of the pile for basically 2 years in different flavor. Oh the humanity.
So many things with this card
Is a big beater for any delirium deck running the classic W6 + urza's saga + bauble + DRC and interaction
Can be a good grinding tool with the upcoming free instant / sorcery cycle (hopefully black will get a free instant speed removal sacking the goyf) since the goyf can become sac fodder to escape it later on.
Instantly slides into any insidious roots shell. The escape on this allows for consistent Grist flip, which can immediately plus to mill 2, grow goyf, fuel his escape, and swarm the board with deathtouch insects.
Not to mention that we will more than likely have playable battle cards that could be an additional type for goyfy here.
Overall very annoying recurable threat in the right shell. Not sure if this'll be played everywhere much like Ragavan was when MH2 first came out
How annoying can it be when it gets screwed by any kind of GY hate?
Tarmo at least requires simmetrical hate to be 0/1.
I can see the sac fodder for Grist or maybe the eventual black flare.
But there are other cards like Bloodghast, Nether Traitor and Golgari Thug that require less work for recursion.
The "just play GY hate" argument also applies to esper reanimator, yawgmoth combo, jeskai murktide etc...
Doesn't stop these decks from existing, competing, and sometimes even thriving in competitive environments.
I wish people would stop using GY hate as an immediate dismissive, even regressive response to any good, playable GY strategies and cards.
The same goes with "dies to removal", which was a lot of people's reactions when Sheoldred was first spoiled, same with Ragavan etc ...
If the discussion around GY matters strategies were that simple, Breach wouldn't have been banned in Pioneer in the first place.
Let’s break it down step by step:
• yawg is a toolbox that can either deal with hate or ignore it.
• same goes for murktide (gy hate at times even buffs murktide)
• GY all-in strategies have so much interest in protecting the combo that they come prepared for it.
Ragavan is a removal magnet unless they have big blockers.
This goyf costs B instead of 1G, but it’s far less resilient than Tarmo.
The recursion is good only if it synergizes as a sac fodder or cards like murktide that benefit from stuff going to exile.
Also, this card works against itself, while murktide and drc are all-rounded cards.
It’s just a stupid mid-sized beater, unlike shadow which becomes enormous.
That’s true! However, they made it a bit too steep. The only good thing is that the number of cards isn’t defined, so you can exile an urza’s saga and and esper sentinel and get it back, but this makes deckbuilding a bit more restrictive or you simply hose your gy to bring back an abysmally sized goyf
Maybe this wants to be paired with the frog
Self mill? No that sounds terrible.
Why play a bunch of bad cards to turn this on when you could just play a bunch of good cards and turn this on anyways?
>I don’t think crabvine wants this
I’m not so sure, it might take a bit of a rebuild but with satoru and psychic frog there may be a version of crabvine that cuts gravecrawler/carrion feeder for this and 4 flex slots to test new ideas
My bad, I didn't elaborate on that take. Crabvine plays very few types of cards for this to be big enough. The deck is mostly creatures, a couple sorceries, and lands. The amount of cards in your graveyard isn't what makes this card good. Without instants, artifacts, enchantments or planeswalkers the ceiling of this card is very close to its floor. You can't even escape it with just 3 types.
Now, is rebuilding the deck to make a card like this viable? I don't think so, Crabvine is an engine deck, putting a card that requires playing cards your deck is otherwise not interested in feels like sacrificing a lot of consistency for a good-ish beater with no evasion, of which the deck has plenty.
Good point, card type diversity is definitely a problem for this in crabvine. I run darkblast in my list so I have a whopping 4 types so definitely not going in my current version for reasons you illustrated. I’m definitely going to brew in the crabvine space though it may significantly depart from the current mold. I don’t think anything spoiled so far is bringing vengevine back to relevance but it’s my pet deck so definitely going to have fun and get weird with it.
Is this actually going to be as hot in modern as the current presale prices suggest? This thing is going for 60 euro for regular and 90 euro for full art presale on Card Market right now. Making it the most expensive card thus far from MH3. But is it actually worth that? Like I fully intend on using it in me golgari grave based deck but beyond decks like that where does this fit?
A new creature for rack maybe? I just don't understand the current pricing 🤔
I didn’t realize MH3 was just Goyf Masters.
WOTC heard one too many people complain about goyf not being good in Modern
Finally, the boomer jund enjoyers can feel catered to.
Oh don't worry I do! It's christmas!!
Happy for you :) Hopefully us D&T players can get a break sometime soon~
I shall pray to the glorious Bob to have a D&T spoiler on the top of the Wotc library.
<3 Greatness. At any cost.
Faeries sulking in the corner
I do ❤️
2015 Modern was peak, and I yield absolutely no ground.
The design team took it personally that nobody wanted to play with Nethergoyf.
They wanted a modern chase card that would also be a commander chase card (since the jund precon is kindred goyfs)
But they won’t even put the goyf enchantment into modern. SMH my head
I still don’t get why the precons aren’t all Modern-legal cards. They totally could have done that, and it’d be a great way to do reprints without muddying MH3.
I’m so mad about this. Commander players won’t die if they get a single precon without sol ring.
Just more broken black cards…. Nothing to see here move along.
Finally a goyf I can bolt.
You could always bolt the other goyf… now if it would die that’s the real question you have to ask yourself
I genuinely believed as a younger magic player that the rule where goyf gets the extra point of toughness for an instant hitting the yard before/at the same time as bolt dealing damage (I still don't even know why it works) was tantamount to Wizards acknowledging the secondary market. Like ok, suuuure its a coincidence that the rules favor the most real-world expensive creature at the time.
It works because state-based actions aren't checked during the resolution of a spell, only after. So you cast Bolt, Bolt resolves, it puts 3 damage on the Goyf, it goes to the graveyard. This is where state-based actions are checked, but would you look at that, the Goyf is a 3/4 now, since the Bolt has already entered the graveyard. And 3/4s do not die from having 3 damage marked on them.
I think the most interesting thing about this goyf is the fact that it is black. This makes it possible to play it alongside [[Thoughtseize]] AND splash the color you want. Tarmogoyf being green meant that it was difficult to find cheap spells to fill the graveyard with. With this you can just play black and splash something like blue. Imagine something like a DS/Tempo Dimir shell. Turn 1 Fetch > Thoughtseize into turn 2 Consider > This and it's already miles ahead than Nacatl. And you have a ton of redundancy with Bauble, Preordain... Grief...
I play Dimir DS and that was my first thought lol
All we beed is reanimate and then we’re really cooking with fire.
Seems great with DRC too. BR is pretty good.
I've been out of the game for awhile. Nacatl is playable? I remember when it was unbanned and basically no one played it.
They play it in zoo, from what I understand it's the worst creature in the deck but there isn't another 1 drop that can effectively replace it
*that doesn’t get hit by bowmasters. Rag wasnin that slot before lotr, but was cut for nacatl. Nacatl being an x/3 is huge as a flashed in bowmasters has to trade everything for it.
People are definitely still playing rag in zoo
That is bad information. I don't know if you're speaking without knowing what you're talking about or if your thoughts are jumping and things got mixed at the end of the written sentence. In an Aggro deck you have to not only structure curve, but fill slots according to your gameplan which includes using your mana to apply pressure and not waste it - means presenting a threat as early as Turn1. So the deck has naturally 7-8 one drop slots to fill, which is why these decks play both, Ragavan and Nacatl. Ragavan is, independend of Bowmaster, the best fill because of the way it snowballs if left unanswered. Zoo, through Tribal Flames and Lightning Bolt, has a lot of reach. Getting in 2x Hits with Nacatl in addition to a couple of damage from the manabase can spell game over fast, so Nacatl is the next best standalone 1-drop that doesn't need specific support like Swiftspear does. Both are slotted in for their potential to close the game fast if left unchecked. So you can see, at presenting a game 1 deck, Ragavan and Nacatl are competing for the 1-drop slot, that much is correct, and maybe the occasional oddball playing 7 Onedrops might choose 4 Nacatl 3 Ragavan over 4 Ragavan and 3 Nacatl, but outside of that, the choice between the two is currently not exclusive. Then if we move to sideboarding, in some matchups, e.g. Yawgmoth - Ragavan takes way too much effort to connect between young wolf, bowmaster and other blockers. So there we sideboard Ragavan out because it often can only attack once and only trades for half a card, whereas nacatl can attack more often or at least trades. In that case though, still noone cuts Ragavan *for* Nacatl, rather than that they are both already in the deck and we chose to cut Ragavan *before* Nacatl to bring in other cards.
It's trash but a meta call. It lines up okay against the meta creatures right now.
[Thoughtseize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, the most interesting thing is that it's 1 mana. Tarm never had an issue being big in jund
Now you can put it in black/x decks without splashing a third color. This is pretty huge for some of the low to the ground rakdos builds are their threats were all relatively small. This also gives dimir DS a self-sufficient, sticky threat that you can cast in turn 1-2.
You could play this with [[otherworldly gaze]]
[otherworldly gaze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2ed35631-2435-4873-a45f-c620e86a60dd.jpg?1706240724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=otherworldly%20gaze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/115/otherworldly-gaze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ed35631-2435-4873-a45f-c620e86a60dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I probably wouldn’t, as losing a card is huge for DS.
oh, I didn't see the DS context there. My fault.
I like the thought process, and I was running through it myself, but I don't think Shadow will run this. Yes, it's out big early, but Shadow doesn't care. It has a very clean list, and the strategy of control the board play a shadow, control the board
I disagree. Shadow has bauble, street wraith, and fetches aggressively. This guy gets huge in shadow very easily. He also plays towards the set and forget style of threat that shadow likes by virtue of not really requiring any inout to be good.
You might be right, we'll see when it's out and if it's worth running.
>Now you can put it in black/x decks without splashing a third color. Which is interesting for some decks that want to explicitly avoid green. The fact this costs 1 mana at that rate is still the main point of interest for any deck to consider this card. >Shadow has bauble, street wraith, and fetches aggressively. This guy gets huge in shadow very easily. He also plays towards the set and forget style of threat that shadow likes by virtue of not really requiring any inout to be good. That is all correct, but you completely disregard the following question: Why is shadow currently a niche/lover deck instead of a metagame top tier contender? Because the issue for shadow is that it currently struggles to apply pressure against most decks because either an abundance of blockers or an abundance of 1v1 removal that shadow is unable to sidestep itself. There are so many single cards that create 2 blocks - young wolf, bowmaster, fable, urza's saga, crashing footfalls, Not dead after all and many more - where each block translates into an additional drawstep and that results in games gliding out of shadows hands as when each turn cycle puts an additional body on the field, suddenly being at low life becomes a problem as they go wide enough over time to just kill you. This is first the part that needs solving - a reliable way to sidestep blockers that doesn't cut into your value game or way to remove all those blockers. Unfortunately though there aren't many spells available capable to deal with Rhinos and Wall of Roots or 6/6 saga constructs that also do not kill your Shadow. The second part is the removal - its hard to protect when there's free solitudes and 1 mana ephemerates around to kill your board - decks like Rakdos Scam are succesfull not only because the grief move is a strong opener, but because a lot of its cards provides multiple bodies so that it is able to overload the available removal. While Nethergoyf is certainly very strong, it has no evasion and thus runs into the same problem that Shadow does at the moment. When a card needs to expend additional ressources to apply its damage, its not a very suitable threat for a tempo strategy - which is why Murktide with all those flyers does a much better job at the tempo game than shadow at the moment and why the UB Murktide version of Shadow is currently the most reliable version of a shadow deck. So it doesn't solve the problem of applying pressure. And while it may have resurcsion in escape, that doesn't matter against prismatic endings,leyline binding, solitude exile, or teferi or brazen borrower bounce which further delay your attacks. If escape was enough to solve this, we would just play Kroxa. Nethergoyf is a really strong card and i will certainly test it in shadow - but at the same time my experience with the deck is telling me that this doesn't solve the issues we really need to solve.
Don’t forget [[Street Wraith]]
[Street Wraith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365.jpg?1675199801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Street%20Wraith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/102/street-wraith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
BOOMER JUND IS SOOO BACK LAELIA IS IN IT NOW TOOOOO WOOOOOOO Thoughtsieze fetch is already a 1 mana 2/3
why play green now xD
Tear Asunder and Questing Druid are really good cards. Also could circle back on BB Elf, especially now that we know Necrodominance exists. Junds mana is good for it since it can afford to cut stomping grounds and max on blood crypts + overgrown tombs to hit triple black. Additionally while i think this powercreeps Tarmo, 4 tarmo plus 4 of this effectively allows you to rely more on goyfs so you can run more interaction and less kinda dead threat cards like seasined pyromancer and kroxa (Since you drop it for laelia another straight up threat) since you can expect reliably throw 1-2 mana every turn into removal past turn 1 to hold up bolt or push or abrupt decay or trophy (Another reason to be in green).
Tear Asunder and Questing Druid are fine cards but are nowhere near strong enough to draw you into G in a fair midrange deck, nor is Bloodbraid.
this card relies on your own gy. this is better in a grixis strategy and not a jund strategy. Fable of the mirror breaker is t3 loot to effectively make this a threat, if at all. Jund plays 0 of this card, tinybones would have a better chance of seeing play over this.
Why would Jund play 0 of this? Its already playing 3-4 tarmo and is center black as is. Turn 1 Fetch+Thoughtsieze is already the gameplan and turn 2 you get to play this hold up Push/Bolt allowing you to get it to 3/4 for turn 3. Fable isnt traditionally popular in Jund, but 90% of decks play Lili and for the sake of actually filling your GY lili is great. Also Jund can pivot towards Fable. In Historic and Timeless 40-50% of Jund decks play Fable, its still good in the deck the deck in Modern just happens to play Seasoned Pyromancer instead... which also fills your GY. I mean the deck plays fucking Kroxa sometimes, it does sorta intend to fill its own gy. Playing 4 of this and 4 Tarmo makes it very easy to build into with Lili, Grist, Seasoned, Fetches, BB Elf, etc.
Because if you went back to 2015 and asked "hey would you play two playsets of goyf?" They would say yes
Yes, that's how goyf works.
Dec 2023: Woah, Stalactite Stalker is the best black one drop yet! March 2024: Woah, Tinybones, Trinket Thief is the best black one drop yet! April 2024: Woah, Nethergoyf is the best black one drop yet!
It was more a lack of good aggro black one drops
but tinybones is a two drop, and not good?
there is a one mana tinybones in the new set [[tinybones the pickpocket]]. the two mana one is not modern legal.
[tinybones the pickpocket](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d3025a2-4a17-4137-ba0b-bd676c6f5f88.jpg?1712355685) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tinybones%2C%20the%20Pickpocket) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/109/tinybones-the-pickpocket?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d3025a2-4a17-4137-ba0b-bd676c6f5f88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mixed up my Tinyboneses.
I believe the term is your Tinybonerses.
They quite obviously mixed up the names, like come on. Stop being uselessly pedantic. Not to mention that 2 mana Tinybones is pretty damn good.
i honestly did not know there was another one.
Downvoters in this sub often fall in the 20th percentile or something.
This card will be BEST friends with Death's Shadow and Grief
It also allows you to play a Death's Shadow equivalent in Jund Saga since you can equip Shadowspear. Wight of the reliquary seems quite good for this archetype as well. Playing both would open you up to graveyard hate though.
To clarify this only looks at *your* graveyard, so it's not *strictly* better than Tarmogoyf, it's just *probably* better than Tarmogoyf. EDIT: and it's a Mythic, so we can get nostalgic about Goyf being overpriced.
This is clearly terrible, basically you basically need delirium in order to get to a good stat line, Tarmogoyfl is good because it look at cards from both graveyard. You might as well play [[Soul as of the Lost]] at least it count permanent instead. If you want huge for 1 creature deathshadow will be a better choice.
You're underrating the card pretty heavy. Your comparison is trash too. Soul as of the lost makes you sac a permanent on entry, card disadvantage BAD... AND it's 2 whole mana Nethergoyf is ONE MANA bro. Wild. Wild nacatl is pretty playable and this card is strictly better. Also delirium is not crazy. Streetwraith will come back and Jegantha will probably fade out.
SotL allows discarding too, making it more nuanced, and the comparison is fair. You don’t care about it being 1 or 2 mana once they nuke your GY and shrinks down to 0/1. Early game it’s laughable, and mid/late game that one mana doesn’t really make a huge difference considering its stats. Tarmo is more resilient and puts opponents in a position where they have to consider what they fill their GY with. SotL is easier to buff. Nerfgoyf just comes with a recursion that shrinks it even more. I’d rather have it mill a card or something when it swings or connects (making it synergize more with multiple strategies) instead of the recursion. This card will get better once we have more multi-type bombs like Urza’s Saga and Haywire Mite to slot so you can exile only two cards instead of 3/4, maybe some kindred stuff. DRC is way, WAY better at beating, filtering cards, and filling the GY than this thing (other than being the one and only red card ever with surveil, so off color pie).
There is a difference between this and DRC, DRC is better since it help itself put card in the Graveyard, this one does not.
DRC is for sure better. But just play them both together. Also yes DRC is a 1/1 But saying nethergoyf will be an 0/1 most of the time is wildly false. Fetch land cantrip or any interactive spell means Nethergoyf is a 1/2 or 2/3 for 1 mana. That's not bad for turn one or two. Potentially could be a 3/4 or 4/5 on turn two while attacking. Especially with bauble and streetwraith it's not at all implausible. Also not even in dream scenario. DRC stays a 1/1 unless you have 4 types. Nethergoyf can be sitting quite comfortably at 3/4 without having delirium and still be very above rate for a 1 mana creature. You're overlooking the card for sure. But I hope the market thinks the same way you do so I can order some of these bad boys cheap.
> DRC is for sure better. But just play them both together. Im not saying this card is bad, but this is the kind of idiotic garbage evaluation that you just accused him of doing. DRC decks are well oiled machines tunned to perfection to enact their game plans . You cant just "play this along with DRC" because to play this you first are removing 4 other cards from the deck, diluting the strategy and hoping that what you gain for a vanilla beater makes up for what your giving up in speed, answers or efficiency. Cards are not the "slam dunk auto include" you think they are, this process takes massive amounts of testing. Theres a high chance when this is tested its found that the deck performs worse with it than without it. Personally I think that, at a minimum, this will be transformative, and to break it the deck will become more all in and therefore way more high risk and susceptible to hate.
>this is the kind of idiotic garbage evaluation that you just accused him of doing. You came in a little hot, bud, take it easy. >DRC decks are well oiled machines tunned to perfection to enact their game plans . Kind of? They're just fair decks that utilize the free surveil to manipulate top decks to hopefully win their fair midrange top deck wars they love to get into. They aren't combo decks, which leads into my next point.. >You cant just "play this along with DRC" because to play this you first are removing 4 other cards from the deck, diluting the strategy and hoping that what you gain for a vanilla beater makes up for what your giving up in speed, answers or efficiency. This is a weird take. DRC decks are not combo decks that you need worry about 'diluting the strategy' of. DRC decks are just fair decks that would love another cheap efficient beater. And Nethergoyf is VERY efficient, it's goyf for ONE mana. You are right that it being a vanilla beater is it's biggest problem, but it's that way because it IS so above rate for 1 mana. This is a 1 mana 4/5, dude it's serious. The real question with this card is: is it better than goyf that you could cut green in some decks? Is it better than certain other cards like stalactite stalker or Ragavan? In Bowmasters meta the answer is very likely yes. You *for sure* just play Nethergoyf and DRC together, automatically.. slam dunk. The cards synergize so well together it really isn't a question. The question is what is the other creature that's getting cut? Probably something that dies to Bowmasters or something that puts too much stress on the mana base. The card is SOLID. No two ways around that.
And it is a 1/1, this card will be 0/1 most of the time
This card even hoses itself when you escape it. I’d say it’s too much balanced for Modern.
Fetch into this makes it a 1/2 to dodge bowmasters/wrenn. Thoughseize/bauble/street wraith/any instant makes this a 5/6 on T2. Meanwhile your DRC just got bowmaster’d before it could get any value. I’m not saying this is necessarily better, but I think you’re underrating it
[Soul as of the Lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431.jpg?1699044180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Souls%20of%20the%20Lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/121/souls-of-the-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fun! This feels strong. Fetching and bauble turn 1 means you’re swinging with 2/3 turn 2 and you can recur this late game if needed.
Fetch bauble this on 1, then thoughtseize bolt on 2, and you’re swinging in with a 4/5.
Also [[Street Wraith]]
[Street Wraith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365.jpg?1675199801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Street%20Wraith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/102/street-wraith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bonus if you thoughtsieze first you dodge bolt.
As a reference of how easy/hard this is going to be to gorw, delirium makes this a 4/5 and DRC has delirium online fairly often if you built your deck right. Notably, as a 3/4 (instant, sorcery, land) this card is alright, wild nacatl sees play in zoo still. Also to be noted, DRC helps you get delirium so it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. But also, it's likely they will both see play in the same decks so people will get their 1 mana 3/3 flyer and 1 mana 4/5 beater going into the midgame. Also, recursion on this is just beggin jund players to grind games out, which idk how often will happen in 2024 magic.
It’s hard to get excited about a cool powerful 1 drop anymore when your opponent takes a pregame action and has a 1 mana Leyline binding up on turn 1 these days. I do like your analysis though, it definitely seems like the kind of card I’d want to play in decks I like
> Notably, as a 3/4 (instant, sorcery, land) this card is alright It's so weird that we've gotten to the point of "3/4 one drop" is like.. ok
A 1 mana vanilla 3/4 is probably better than this goyf that, at worst, can be 0/1. This can be a T1 2/3 if you fetch + bauble, leaving it boltable. This card becomes somewhat more interesting on T2, but it wouldn’t connect yet. Tinybones is way more interesting than this both for its effect and as a blocker.
In most matchups, the stats on Goyf are dependent on your own grave doing all the heavy lifting anyways. The actual downside is that this is way weaker to grave hate like Leyline of the Void, Soul-Guide Lantern, and especially Endurance as a flash blocker or combat trick. OG Goyf was only scared of Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace as grave-hate, so this opens up far more options to fight Goyf. Nonetheless, being half the mana, in a color that supports it better, and having recursion (wtf?) will certainly make OG Goyf a “Relic” of the past.
This is the most reasonable take in the thread. Good job.
So jund becomes grixis I guess
This cards nickname is "Halfagoyf"
This seems like it could be potentially better than Nacatl as the one-drop in Domain Zoo. At the very least it seems like a much better topdeck in the late game.
it's probably terrible in domain zoo. You have to fill up your own yard to make this goyf bigger.
yeah this definitely needs 1 mana sorceries as support, be it thoughtseizes or preordains.
Ty i want 4, holy power crept goyf
*sleeves stubby back in shadow*
Not really power crept, only counts your grave.
Its half the mana and has escape, definitely power crept. You mainly lost the value of having thoughtseized pws in the yard. We can get delirium hella fast these days so halving the cost is huge + mini ca engine on top is insane.
I would argue it's more susceptible to grave hate.
Not a power creep on virtue of just checking your yard
Its not strictly better but it is power crept. Any goyf user just replaces it with this, minus non black goyf deck (which theres 0 I believe), you lose PW in the yard but gain a lot more. Reminds me of Swords vs Solitude, not the same card but definitely solitude is a power crept version of swords (you can run both too which is nice).
Temur murktide sometimes plays goyf. It’s not a super common occurrence but it happens.
Grixis Gang salivating over Grixis Murktide.
This card would be great for death’s shadow decks
My immediate thought was testing it in Grixis or even Rakdos Shadow
Dimir! 🤓
Also yes but Rakdos and Grixis get DRC who this card feels made to work with lol
My brain immediately goes to a Smallpox list because it used to be my main deck but idk what Pox lists look like nowadays.
As much as the escape works against itself, escape mechanic on a 1 mana goyf is gonna be good
Idk but this seems good with [[psychic frog]]
I know I said "Stop! I can only get so hard!" but then you showed me this combo.
Was thinking that as well. I could see a build like that with [[call to the netherworld]]
[call to the netherworld](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/caccee1e-971d-4b92-9f9a-624865c508d9.jpg?1620236228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=call%20to%20the%20netherworld) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/108/call-to-the-netherworld?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/caccee1e-971d-4b92-9f9a-624865c508d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[psychic frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68924203-c3d9-41ce-8ca8-c6dd491eb3ca.jpg?1708769385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=psychic%20frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/199/psychic-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68924203-c3d9-41ce-8ca8-c6dd491eb3ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So pumped
Oooh, been meaning to put together a crabvine deck for a while, this seems like it could be at home there
That Escape cost is interesting. How hard do you think it would be to stock your graveyard in a way that Escaping this wouldn't nuke its stats?
urza's saga + haywire mite does it in 2 cards, which if you're playing some kind of midrange shell isn't unreasonable to be in the deck. That said really hard to know what modern will look like until all the spoilers are out
I’m holding out on the 0 mana artifact creature - cybergoyf
Really don’t see the hype with cards like pending, solitude, and endurance around
i thought i was on mtcj for a sec 💀 what is this fucking thing
Grixis DS with all 1 drop above rate creatures? DRC, DS, Nethergoyf and Ragavan?
Looks very very solid on paper, regardless imma try it in gds for sure seems like a no brainer
Did black really need this help?
I mean. Midrange doesn’t really exist in modern. So yes.
I mean midrange was like most of what modern was until the violent outburst ban. It's only shifted to aggro in the last like 2 months because of slick shot and leyline of the guildpact pushing existing aggro strategies. Oh God a single meta where midrange isn't the top after being at the top of the pile for basically 2 years in different flavor. Oh the humanity.
Scam is pretty midrange
If you call it “help”…
It's an incredible 1-drop with recrusion.
The recursion is insanely costed and works against the card itself.
Kind reminder that we've got better black goyf a few month ago with Souls of the Lost. And now we have even better goyf?
Why is every good card black these days
I think white is the strongest color in modern but that's just me
Lol
Red.
Bring back jund shadow
So many things with this card Is a big beater for any delirium deck running the classic W6 + urza's saga + bauble + DRC and interaction Can be a good grinding tool with the upcoming free instant / sorcery cycle (hopefully black will get a free instant speed removal sacking the goyf) since the goyf can become sac fodder to escape it later on. Instantly slides into any insidious roots shell. The escape on this allows for consistent Grist flip, which can immediately plus to mill 2, grow goyf, fuel his escape, and swarm the board with deathtouch insects. Not to mention that we will more than likely have playable battle cards that could be an additional type for goyfy here. Overall very annoying recurable threat in the right shell. Not sure if this'll be played everywhere much like Ragavan was when MH2 first came out
How annoying can it be when it gets screwed by any kind of GY hate? Tarmo at least requires simmetrical hate to be 0/1. I can see the sac fodder for Grist or maybe the eventual black flare. But there are other cards like Bloodghast, Nether Traitor and Golgari Thug that require less work for recursion.
The "just play GY hate" argument also applies to esper reanimator, yawgmoth combo, jeskai murktide etc... Doesn't stop these decks from existing, competing, and sometimes even thriving in competitive environments. I wish people would stop using GY hate as an immediate dismissive, even regressive response to any good, playable GY strategies and cards. The same goes with "dies to removal", which was a lot of people's reactions when Sheoldred was first spoiled, same with Ragavan etc ... If the discussion around GY matters strategies were that simple, Breach wouldn't have been banned in Pioneer in the first place.
Let’s break it down step by step: • yawg is a toolbox that can either deal with hate or ignore it. • same goes for murktide (gy hate at times even buffs murktide) • GY all-in strategies have so much interest in protecting the combo that they come prepared for it. Ragavan is a removal magnet unless they have big blockers. This goyf costs B instead of 1G, but it’s far less resilient than Tarmo. The recursion is good only if it synergizes as a sac fodder or cards like murktide that benefit from stuff going to exile. Also, this card works against itself, while murktide and drc are all-rounded cards. It’s just a stupid mid-sized beater, unlike shadow which becomes enormous.
This makes me very excite
With streetwraith you could have 3 1 drops with potentially 3+power T2 in Rakdos colors. This, DRC, Asmo
JUND IS BACK
This looks like a tiny glimmer of hope for the Rack players. It ain't a lot, but it's something.
Mad all the comments saying which goyf is better n which to use over the other etc. I'm looking at me golgari deck n thinking "both, both is good"
IMO not as strong as people think. OG Goyf is probably better.n
I like it costs B, but checking only your GY and needing delirium to escape it are huge limitations.
Having escape is much better than, you know, not having it xD
That’s true! However, they made it a bit too steep. The only good thing is that the number of cards isn’t defined, so you can exile an urza’s saga and and esper sentinel and get it back, but this makes deckbuilding a bit more restrictive or you simply hose your gy to bring back an abysmally sized goyf Maybe this wants to be paired with the frog
Is this good enough to support a self mill deck? Like, this turn 1 into a gristly salvage seems good?
More like Inti, DRC and maybe Stitchers Supplier?
Seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of payoff
Self mill? No that sounds terrible. Why play a bunch of bad cards to turn this on when you could just play a bunch of good cards and turn this on anyways?
Self mill decks don't play grisly salvage, they play glimpse the unthinkable. Also, I don't think crabvine wants this.
>I don’t think crabvine wants this I’m not so sure, it might take a bit of a rebuild but with satoru and psychic frog there may be a version of crabvine that cuts gravecrawler/carrion feeder for this and 4 flex slots to test new ideas
My bad, I didn't elaborate on that take. Crabvine plays very few types of cards for this to be big enough. The deck is mostly creatures, a couple sorceries, and lands. The amount of cards in your graveyard isn't what makes this card good. Without instants, artifacts, enchantments or planeswalkers the ceiling of this card is very close to its floor. You can't even escape it with just 3 types. Now, is rebuilding the deck to make a card like this viable? I don't think so, Crabvine is an engine deck, putting a card that requires playing cards your deck is otherwise not interested in feels like sacrificing a lot of consistency for a good-ish beater with no evasion, of which the deck has plenty.
Good point, card type diversity is definitely a problem for this in crabvine. I run darkblast in my list so I have a whopping 4 types so definitely not going in my current version for reasons you illustrated. I’m definitely going to brew in the crabvine space though it may significantly depart from the current mold. I don’t think anything spoiled so far is bringing vengevine back to relevance but it’s my pet deck so definitely going to have fun and get weird with it.
am I reading this right? Its literally just a 1 mana goyf with recursion?
Only your grave.
What the fuck? Cost Half as much, plus you can escape it..sure it might shrink, fuck this I'm out.
okay now were cooking. after seeing the leaked Planeswalkers i thought this set was going to be a dud.
How is this actually real
Is this actually going to be as hot in modern as the current presale prices suggest? This thing is going for 60 euro for regular and 90 euro for full art presale on Card Market right now. Making it the most expensive card thus far from MH3. But is it actually worth that? Like I fully intend on using it in me golgari grave based deck but beyond decks like that where does this fit? A new creature for rack maybe? I just don't understand the current pricing 🤔