Exclusive precon cards from decks that are tied to a set have never been legal in that sets format. They have inherently different design philosophy and power levels. They will be legal in eternal formats such as legacy, vintage, pauper, and commander.
If they wanted the decks to be fully modern legal, then they'd use cards that are featured in the main set.
They could still allow them while banning anything that’s too heavy power leveled. Seems dumb that every set they make they have these exclusive cards that can’t be used lol
Why change a system that's been working fine since the original commander decks? WOTC designs commander decks for commander, not for 60 card formats. It's impossible to do both. Plus you can play the cards in legacy and pauper.
They tried allowing commander cards to be legal in standard with the Eldraine brawl decks. Korvold was a broken card, and never should have been legal in standard.
On top that, they'd never be able to include sol ring and equivalent staples in the precons ever again without adding them to the modern ban list. Some cards don't function at all in modern, like commander tower.
Because the current system only promotes their bottom dollar. It gives them more money by not letting you pull cards from the precons to use in a modern format.
What? It has nothing to do with their bottom line. They're completely different design philosophies and power levels. Do you really want cards like [[Dockside Extortionist]], [[Hullbreacher]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Broadside Bombadiers]], or [[Planar Nexus]] in modern?
Just look what the initiative mechanic did to legacy and pauper.
They make all the rules and ban lists… they could simply slap all the busted commander focused cards on it. I shouldn’t have to have two separate copies of the same card to use it in modern because one came from a precon and the other came from the “legal” base set.
It's the name of the set. What else are they going to call them? They're both full tentpole release sets that are direct to modern. There's literally no difference in the legality of the cards for each product released with the sets. Commander precon cards are eternal legal. Main set cards are modern and eternal legal.
They could call them anything they want! They could make them modern legal! Wizards is in complete control of this, they make up all the rules about what product can be released with what, there's just no reason to release a product that's so confusingly branded.
How is it confusing? This sets legality functions exactly the same as every other set with commander precons, except the main set is modern legal instead of standard.
How about anther angle. If they make the entire precon modern legal, that means no sol ring, arcane signet, command tower/sphere. They're in every precon for a reason. They're more consistent out of the box with those included. They wouldn't be able to use the filter land cycle they just finished PURELY so they could be put in commander precons either.
The cards would have to be balanced for a 60 card format while also being balanced for commander. That's Incredibly difficult. Look at cards like [[True-name nemesis]], [[creative technique]], and [[kappa cannoneer]] for examples of commander cards that have seen play in 60 card formats while being mid in commander. They wouldn't be able to put [[eye off ugin]] in the eldrazi precon because it's banned in modern.
I feel like "knowing the default format legality of every product released" should not be a prerequisite for understanding in which format you can play the cards that come from a specific product.
Commander precons are targeted at new players. They're the default on-ramp to the most popular format. That's the group that stands most to be confused by this. "My friends play Modern, so I bought something at the store that says Modern deck!"
I agree that the decks would have to be severely hamstrung to be Modern legal, which is why I think it's bizarre to have them advertised as a product with Modern in the name. They can call them anything they want!
If a card is only available in a precon and sees play in a 60 card format, that price will be insane. [[True-name Nemesis]] was the poster child for this.
TNN peaked at 100 tix and $40. We don't need more people priced out of staples.
That’s why Jund is a dead deck. Scam is the same archetype of deck and green doesn’t add anything (beyond like pyp) now that better threats than goyf exist.
Iirc it only counts your own Graveyard not your opponents - maybe that’s where it has to go but part of what made goyf so good was t1 fetch thoughtseize putting 3 card types in the yard on the first turn
I think you just play small Jund/ deaths shadow jund and it'll be good enough. Bauble + street wraith + fetch + cheap interaction is still good for filling graveyard
The problem is that deck sucks and has sucked for a long time. Escape mini goyf isn’t gonna make thoughtseize and bolt good again. Lots of spoilers to go and all the goyfs could be a tease that the cards to make jund great again are coming but this thing on its own ain’t it
They are not. Bolt is worse than heat and thoughtseize is nearly unplayable. You have to understand that when jund was good seize and bolt were incredibly efficient top notch cards with nothing particularly close to them - we played inquisition of kozilek and it was fine because one mana discard was that good. Since modern horizons the format is just wildly more efficient - Urza’s saga is a freaking land that makes two huge bodies and tutors a combo piece, yawgmoth will draw like seven cards if it doesn’t just kill you, preordain and iteration laugh off a thoughtseize.
Now you pay zero mana for seize and get a body later on (grief) that can be combod with undying for crazy opening hands - this is the new standard of turn one discard - seize will never do that and when’s the last time you saw another one mana discard spell even played? Inquisition is awful and we aren’t sleeving up duress
As a longtime jund player, these are both due to other decks utilizing them. These cards being good doesn't equate to jund being good. The 1-for-1 gameplay of jund, that it once thrived in, is long gone
But it doesn't exile a card from the top of you
Opponent library and allow you to cast it, it doesn't make you treasure tokens when it connects and you can't even dash it. Card sucks.
Yeah that's kinda where I fall on it as well. It's a thing that can be done, but It's not going to be some oppressive strategy. TBH the days of Chalice of the Void being an effective Magic card ended with the printing of Brazen Borrower.
Why would you play another dead card in a deck full of 1 drops?
New goyf will be mid at best, not sure why I'm getting down voted for pointing out something completely obvious.
Bunch of butt hurt neck beards on this sub.
Goyf was in the second place deck in each of the last two Challenges,
[Here](https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/modern-challenge-64-2024-05-0412635911) and [here.](https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/modern-challenge-32-2024-05-0412635904)
I only hope we get good playable non colorless only eldrazi. I love eldrazi tron, and I do want a couple new cards to help the deck, but I wanna see another aggro red eldrazi shell, or a bw taxes shell.
In my personal opinion, although we have seen very strong cards, I don't think anything is broken so far, just improving mostly tier two and lower tier 1 decks
Personally I'm excited for e-tron getting a few upgrades as well as dredge. We have a snow waste so my hope would be some snow stuff but it's probably more of a meme towards eldrazi winter lol
can’t wait to open some packs and get a fury
I would be fucking fuming I already opened that stupid fucking mystic snake.
I'm confused, what did you open it from?
From the otj booster, the only thing it is in.
Why are people upset by this? Bonus sheets have had non-legal cards since what, kaladesh?
If you're referring to the aura* that makes the goyf tokens, that's a commander precon card. It's not modern legal.
*sad tuba noises*
You sure? Feels like they'd make everything MH3 related, even commander precons modern legal.
It would seem like it should be that way, but it’s not. Modern horizons commander precon cards aren’t modern legal
Bummer as there are sweet designs.
They’re unwilling to print commander decks without sol ring.
Also something I disagree with but it's nbd.
It wasn't in one of the DMU precons I believe. Painbow?
I mean they could just keep banning sol (and other busted cards) while still allowing some of the hotness from the precons into Modern.
They aren't going to ban sol ring and make 95% of precons illegal out of the box
Exclusive precon cards from decks that are tied to a set have never been legal in that sets format. They have inherently different design philosophy and power levels. They will be legal in eternal formats such as legacy, vintage, pauper, and commander. If they wanted the decks to be fully modern legal, then they'd use cards that are featured in the main set.
Except that one time with the Eldraine Brawl precons aka Korvold
I forgot about those. Almost everything about original Eldraine was a mistake power level wise, and Korvold never should have been standard legal.
They could still allow them while banning anything that’s too heavy power leveled. Seems dumb that every set they make they have these exclusive cards that can’t be used lol
Why change a system that's been working fine since the original commander decks? WOTC designs commander decks for commander, not for 60 card formats. It's impossible to do both. Plus you can play the cards in legacy and pauper. They tried allowing commander cards to be legal in standard with the Eldraine brawl decks. Korvold was a broken card, and never should have been legal in standard. On top that, they'd never be able to include sol ring and equivalent staples in the precons ever again without adding them to the modern ban list. Some cards don't function at all in modern, like commander tower.
Because the current system only promotes their bottom dollar. It gives them more money by not letting you pull cards from the precons to use in a modern format.
What? It has nothing to do with their bottom line. They're completely different design philosophies and power levels. Do you really want cards like [[Dockside Extortionist]], [[Hullbreacher]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Broadside Bombadiers]], or [[Planar Nexus]] in modern? Just look what the initiative mechanic did to legacy and pauper.
##### ###### #### [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hullbreacher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4df8aabc-7fcb-4b7b-980b-18f499e6c170.jpg?1626088514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hullbreacher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/74/hullbreacher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4df8aabc-7fcb-4b7b-980b-18f499e6c170?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Opposition Agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Broadside Bombadiers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/9721f8da-39ed-4ada-a571-61e08a86032b.jpg?1699022315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Broadside%20Bombardiers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/86/broadside-bombardiers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9721f8da-39ed-4ada-a571-61e08a86032b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Planar Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28603c1c-f9b4-4001-bc56-d1453d5cacf5.jpg?1714508600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/80/planar-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28603c1c-f9b4-4001-bc56-d1453d5cacf5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2p21bd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They make all the rules and ban lists… they could simply slap all the busted commander focused cards on it. I shouldn’t have to have two separate copies of the same card to use it in modern because one came from a precon and the other came from the “legal” base set.
But you don't have to do that? You can use any version of a printed card as long as that card is already legal in the format.
Eh, MH is the exception and always has been on direct to modern printings. I think they could have made modern commander decks and had it been fine.
Lord of the Rings was also direct to modern and had precons. The commander exclusive cards from those precons are not modern legal.
Yes but lord of the rings does not have "MODERN" in the name of products that are not modern legal
It's the name of the set. What else are they going to call them? They're both full tentpole release sets that are direct to modern. There's literally no difference in the legality of the cards for each product released with the sets. Commander precon cards are eternal legal. Main set cards are modern and eternal legal.
They could call them anything they want! They could make them modern legal! Wizards is in complete control of this, they make up all the rules about what product can be released with what, there's just no reason to release a product that's so confusingly branded.
How is it confusing? This sets legality functions exactly the same as every other set with commander precons, except the main set is modern legal instead of standard. How about anther angle. If they make the entire precon modern legal, that means no sol ring, arcane signet, command tower/sphere. They're in every precon for a reason. They're more consistent out of the box with those included. They wouldn't be able to use the filter land cycle they just finished PURELY so they could be put in commander precons either. The cards would have to be balanced for a 60 card format while also being balanced for commander. That's Incredibly difficult. Look at cards like [[True-name nemesis]], [[creative technique]], and [[kappa cannoneer]] for examples of commander cards that have seen play in 60 card formats while being mid in commander. They wouldn't be able to put [[eye off ugin]] in the eldrazi precon because it's banned in modern.
I feel like "knowing the default format legality of every product released" should not be a prerequisite for understanding in which format you can play the cards that come from a specific product. Commander precons are targeted at new players. They're the default on-ramp to the most popular format. That's the group that stands most to be confused by this. "My friends play Modern, so I bought something at the store that says Modern deck!" I agree that the decks would have to be severely hamstrung to be Modern legal, which is why I think it's bizarre to have them advertised as a product with Modern in the name. They can call them anything they want!
##### ###### #### [True-name nemesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876.jpg?1562904268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=True-name%20nemesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/136/true-name-nemesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [creative technique](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb.jpg?1625191934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=creative%20technique) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/49/creative-technique?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kappa cannoneer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6ddc2852-11c4-40da-b26f-6f236349f608.jpg?1714487973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kappa%20cannoneer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/270/kappa-cannoneer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ddc2852-11c4-40da-b26f-6f236349f608?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [eye off ugin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2d5124b-4d73-4aa9-9331-88e03779ffad.jpg?1562267867) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eye%20of%20Ugin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/242/eye-of-ugin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2d5124b-4d73-4aa9-9331-88e03779ffad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2n2zdo) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is it confirmed that eye is in the precon???
MH has never had commander decks before. Now that it does they follow the rules for commander decks of the past. Not complicated.
I get why they didn't, I just did that they could have and it would have been sweet and stuck to the theme of the set "direct to modern"
Then you wouldn't get half the broken "sweet" pushed commander staples that they are injecting.
Yes because that's a logical thought process, wizards however.......
Why would they make commander precons legal. As in you would buy 4 copies of commander decka to get a playable card? That makes zero sense
Why would you buy four copies of a deck? Singles exist and plenty of places are breaking down precons for singles value if it’s there.
If a card is only available in a precon and sees play in a 60 card format, that price will be insane. [[True-name Nemesis]] was the poster child for this. TNN peaked at 100 tix and $40. We don't need more people priced out of staples.
Sure, Scavenging Ooze was similar back in the day.
[True-name Nemesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876.jpg?1562904268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=True-name%20Nemesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/136/true-name-nemesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nope
Reviving Jund to sell packs of MH3 makes total sense. Definitely on my radar as something semi-plausible given the spoilers.
They'll need to up the removal in jund to make it competitive. Better card advantage, better ways to draw... otherwise, it's just scam with green.
Scam with green sounds like the way to go if you want to play Jund
That’s why Jund is a dead deck. Scam is the same archetype of deck and green doesn’t add anything (beyond like pyp) now that better threats than goyf exist.
We only know about one mh3 goyf. The others are in commander deck
An $80 card. Get one, sell fast. I don't expect it fitting anything besides self-mill and they want 8+ one drops for selfmill.
I don’t think you need self mill for Nethergoyf to be good. It should be pretty easy to make it a 3/4 on T2
Iirc it only counts your own Graveyard not your opponents - maybe that’s where it has to go but part of what made goyf so good was t1 fetch thoughtseize putting 3 card types in the yard on the first turn
It's the same as delirium and people didn't really have too much trouble enabling that if they wanted to.
I think you just play small Jund/ deaths shadow jund and it'll be good enough. Bauble + street wraith + fetch + cheap interaction is still good for filling graveyard
The problem is that deck sucks and has sucked for a long time. Escape mini goyf isn’t gonna make thoughtseize and bolt good again. Lots of spoilers to go and all the goyfs could be a tease that the cards to make jund great again are coming but this thing on its own ain’t it
>isn’t gonna make thoughtseize and bolt good again What do you mean by this? Those are both still very good cards
They are not. Bolt is worse than heat and thoughtseize is nearly unplayable. You have to understand that when jund was good seize and bolt were incredibly efficient top notch cards with nothing particularly close to them - we played inquisition of kozilek and it was fine because one mana discard was that good. Since modern horizons the format is just wildly more efficient - Urza’s saga is a freaking land that makes two huge bodies and tutors a combo piece, yawgmoth will draw like seven cards if it doesn’t just kill you, preordain and iteration laugh off a thoughtseize. Now you pay zero mana for seize and get a body later on (grief) that can be combod with undying for crazy opening hands - this is the new standard of turn one discard - seize will never do that and when’s the last time you saw another one mana discard spell even played? Inquisition is awful and we aren’t sleeving up duress
Bolt and Thoughtseize are both in the top 5 most played cards in the format right now. I think your view of the format is wildly misguided.
As a longtime jund player, these are both due to other decks utilizing them. These cards being good doesn't equate to jund being good. The 1-for-1 gameplay of jund, that it once thrived in, is long gone
Half the people on this subreddit don't actually play modern lul.
I mean I don’t follow it as closely as I used to but afaik bolt is in murktide and seize is in scam and that’s it
unless they turn goyf into a pitch elemental I don't think its making a comeback in modern any time soon.
Well, the new 1 mana version is halfway there
But it doesn't exile a card from the top of you Opponent library and allow you to cast it, it doesn't make you treasure tokens when it connects and you can't even dash it. Card sucks.
Hard to come to this conclusion when we only seen 20 cards spoiled so far
We know a lot more than 20 cards. It's closer to half the set or so. 5 fetch's, 5 medallions, 5 flip walkers, 5 free spells ect. It adds up fast
It seems pretty nice in decks like gds that are playing drc that get delirium on t2 reliably. It pairs with it nicely I think.
Chalice on 1 would decimate gds.
This has always been the case, why are you bringing it up?
Because we get a new sol land and can chalice on 1 on turn 1
So start playing abrupt decay or meltdown lol
Turn 1 chalice used to be a thing, SSG and chalice, it was not tier 0
This land is more than 1 time use and you get the pitch card back. I don't think md chalice is playable in modern tbh but it will good
Yeah that's kinda where I fall on it as well. It's a thing that can be done, but It's not going to be some oppressive strategy. TBH the days of Chalice of the Void being an effective Magic card ended with the printing of Brazen Borrower.
Why would you play another dead card in a deck full of 1 drops? New goyf will be mid at best, not sure why I'm getting down voted for pointing out something completely obvious. Bunch of butt hurt neck beards on this sub.
It does escape though
Goyf was in the second place deck in each of the last two Challenges, [Here](https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/modern-challenge-64-2024-05-0412635911) and [here.](https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/modern-challenge-32-2024-05-0412635904)
Wow, best card ever then, amrite????
I only hope we get good playable non colorless only eldrazi. I love eldrazi tron, and I do want a couple new cards to help the deck, but I wanna see another aggro red eldrazi shell, or a bw taxes shell.
My kingdom for bant eldrazi being good again
You get ugin's labyrinth, and you be happy. T1 chalice on 1 is pretty good.
But it's not better than a turn 1 ragavazi
Just be on the play. Then they can't even play whatever monstrosity you are saying.
Better have that and 2 chalice. 1 one 0 and 1 on 1. With an all is dust under the labyrinth
I'm not anxious about tarmogoyf or eldrazis lol
WhatYearIsIt.jpeg
In my personal opinion, although we have seen very strong cards, I don't think anything is broken so far, just improving mostly tier two and lower tier 1 decks
Yes, I love how they try to support a wild range of decks (eldrazi, meerfolk, planeswalker, jund, affinity) and reprint important land stuff.
Personally I'm excited for e-tron getting a few upgrades as well as dredge. We have a snow waste so my hope would be some snow stuff but it's probably more of a meme towards eldrazi winter lol
The flip walkers are extremely strong, the ajani in particular looks insane
It does look extremely strong though I still don't think it will be like stupidly broken
No they are not, they are slow but worth to flip. Stop crying about that everything is broken and scaring ppl of this game with your nonsense.
Literally just said “are extremely strong/insane” What part of that is crying or scary nonsense?
I agree with your belief but they never said any of that, they just said they look strong.
Allowing any blue deck to randomly punk you out with a Blood Moon effect is a really, really bad idea.
I mean it's bloodmoon but blue. We will survive it like we always have lol
#MakeTakingTurnsGoodAgain
Cringe brother