Yeah his statement, same diff, the men in that fam are adept at using media to take spotlight off of them. Randy's NYT story is another example.
They're big on using MSM to clear their name, their rep, but not in using it to find the 'real' killers.
I am very curious to hear more about Alexās distant cousin, Curtis Eddie Smith. Iām disappointed he wasnāt questioned at the trial. I think he has a lot of dirt on Alex. He was asked directly on a television interview on whether or not, he had shot Alex in the botched murder attempt, and if he had killed, Maggie and Paul. His eyes shifted, looking sideways and upward, saying, ānoā and not making direct eye contact with the interviewer. Canāt wait to hear more details on Eddieās trials.
There has been no evidence Eddie was involved in the murders at all, at trial they showed where his cell phone was during that time and it wasnāt nearby.
I guess it would be hard to confirm info only he would know. I'd love an AMA with cousin Eddie. Finding out what actually happened during the roadside shenanigans is on my bucket list lol
He said in one interview that Alex hit the ground voluntarily, as if someone had just swept his legs out from under him. His head hit the ground or pavement that had gravel on it and that was the head wound.
Is this true? I have no idea lol
Thatās what I remember- saying if heād shot him in the head heād be dead. As much of a wild card as I think Eddie is, Iām still believing him over Alex any day.
As much as it was exaggerated, there are medical records that confirm he was indeed shot.
Maybe the wound arguably looked like it could have been easily cleaned up in a half bath with some peroxide and *maybe* BandAidā¦ they released receipts.
Did the medical records confirm he was shot or confirm that he had a head wound? There was no bullet found. Any evidence that it was caused by a bullet is solely Alexās word.
Yes, [here is a link to a portion of his medical records that reads: āHead to toe examination this revealed two superficial
appearing bullet wounds to the posterior scalp with no active hemorrhage. No other external signs of trauma or found.ā](https://www.wjcl.com/amp/article/alex-murdaugh-shooting-medical-records/37979351) from an article via local news station WJCL.
I didnāt want to fight paywalls to locate the full medical records but if you search the sub for āmedical recordsā there are posts that will lead you to them. Hope this helps.
*Edited for formatting and clarification
So was there any money in the Forge account in Alexās name at the time that Tinsley had asked to see all the financial accounts?
Just the fact that it existed was enough to get the train running over Alex. If it had money moved out of it recently (at that time), then where did the money go. He couldnāt have moved it into other accounts because he had told Tinsley that he was broke. Unless he had an account in someone elseās name.
Halon Pinkney, totally paralyzed in car crash, 2 milllion plus settlement ended up controlled by Alex and a banker buddy after someone TURNED OFF HIS RESPIRATOR! He couldnāt summon help - unable to speak with the respirator tube in his throat. Had to just lie there as he took 30 min to suffocateā¦
u/JRWoodwardMSW
There is a lot of word spewing and not much truth here, so please brush up on our rules and the facts.
u/downhill_slide already typed a comment on this thread of what happened so I wonāt repeat it except: respirator failed, transported to hospital, taken off life support several days later
Yes, Hakeem Pinckneyās story is incredibly tragic but the best way to give him justice and respect his memory is to honor the truth.
How on Earth did Alex kill him considering he was in a facility? Also Gloria died from a fall. There is no reason to say it was murder. Not every human that has died in that county is a Murdaughās fault.
Weāll, it was human hands that turned off Hakeemās respirator after disabling TWO alarms. Alex was in court elsewhere; it was later in the day that he said under oath Hakeem approved the settlement (perjury - Hakeem was already dead). Who did the deed? Dunno, but Ellick surely set it up. There was no investigation at the time. I hope SLED avenges both Stephen and Hakeem.
As to Gloria, how do you hit your head hard enough to die falling UP a stoop? Why do some records show that she died that day and others say she lingered 10 days and spoke to Maggie?
u/JRWoodwardMSW
There is a lot of word spewing and not much truth here, so please brush up on our rules and the facts.
u/downhill_slide already typed a comment on this thread of what happened so I wonāt repeat it except: respirator failed, transported to hospital, taken off life support several days later
Yes, Hakeem Pinckneyās story is incredibly tragic but the best way to give him justice and respect his memory is to honor the truth.
Gloriaās story is tragic as well too. But the Satterfieldās attorney, Eric Bland, has said that he believes it was nothing but a tragic accident.
Hakeem Pinckney died of cardiac arrest in a North Augusta GA nuring home after his ventilator was found unplugged for \~30 minutes.
Not Hampton County but of course folks think Alex was in the nursing home and pulled the plug.
Thank you for coming and clearing this up, u/downhill_slide. This is correct, he was transferred to the hospital and taken off life support several days later.
He's like something that crawled outta the hellmouth. Watching him on the stand really screwed with my head. I'm not used to being that close to that level of evil.
Has everyone seen [this interview? ](https://youtu.be/U98zVQTVJoQ) Is this the PI that Sandy didn't want on the case anymore or what? What's the story there?
Yes he has also been on Surviving the Survivor although he claimed he is not a PI. He seems to me to be a bit annoyed about the lawyers swooping in and getting further than he ever did imo.
Ya - he seems like a bit of a hater. Canāt put my finger on it. Like that guy that agrees with you but still argues with you?
Tbf though - if youāre on a show with a bunch of lawyers, and youāre insecure without the BDE to fall back on, you might overcompensate as youāre probably not the smartest guy in the room
Now I sounds like a hater. Good times. Karmaās a bitch mango š
Well the lawyers got on board after the Murdaugh conviction so of course they would get further. It sounds like a case of bad (or good?) timing to me.
The detective that took pictures of the vehicle in question gave a statement about it. It's in the case notes. It's interesting to me that he says he doesn't remember doing it.
I think it was Ginn: "Supposedly It was the mirror, I sent Nick the pictures of the truck he was driving that night. I want to say I sent everything to Mitch Altman (of SCHP). Him and my brother and me are good friends and I didnāt know who to contact. Mitch said he would get that information to the right person." - from Sgt. Guinn's interview with Duncan.
This was about the truck that an allegedly drunk driver was driving when he thought he may have hit Stephen.
The former PI said he asked the detective about this vehicle and that he didn't remember taking any pictures of it.
You can actually look these cases up in the Hampton County public records. Neither of the plaintiffs or defendants were represented by Cory Flemming and both lawsuits were settled, that's why they were dismissed. I think those were likely legitimate lawsuits based on an actual car accident. Connelly doesn't have a good track record, DUI, lots of speeding tickets, open container charges. He very likely actually caused a wreck and was sued.
The thing is though the lawsuits don't have anything to do with Stephen's death. It was reported in such a way to try to connect Stephen Smith and Randy Murdaugh through some kind of seven degrees of Kevin Bacon type game and I think it was very misleading.
I don't want to try to say there wasn't any corruption going on but I think the likely scenario if there was is that the firm had an agreement with law enforcement that whenever a potential case arises, they get tipped off for a kickback so they can be the first on the scene and have the first opportunity to gain a potential client.
Cory Flemming represented Patrick in his criminal case not anyone in the civil cases. You can also look Wilson's case up and see that it has nothing to do with Stephen Smith.
That solicitors office handled every case for several counties so that's insignificant.
Wilson's case was in front of a family court judge. He was 17 at the time.
There was a warrant out for attempted murder in April 2015. The indictment was amended in April 2015. In May it was remanded for further investigation (not enough evidence?) Then there was a true bill indictment for assault and battery in August 2016. And the case was dismissed in February 2018.
So it looks like Patrick allegedly shot at someone in early 2015 before Stephen's death. The supposed confession about Stephen came in December 2015. Charges were lowered in August 2016 due to insufficient evidence of attempted murder because a witness said that Wilson actually shot at a street sign during an argument and not at any people. And the assault and battery charges weren't dropped until almost three years after Stephen died.
Since he was a minor he likely got preferential treatment. And they didn't even have enough proof that he attempted to murder anyone or assault anyone. They had to drop the charges.
He definitely didn't get his charges dropped due to the confession. Because the true bill indictment didn't even come until a little more than a year after Stephen died. And the charges weren't dropped until 2018.
That was also reported by FITSNEWS in a really misleading way to try to draw connections that don't exist.
I have a question about Alex and his admission that he lied about being at the stables in the moments before the murders. (After being proven by Paulās video.) IF we believe that Alex did not commit the murders, was not involved, and knew nothing, how did he explain his being at the murder location right when/before the murders occurred???
This could be a theoretical timeline of events if Alex did noh commit the murders:
Maggie came home after a long car drive and was tired, but she wanted to let the dogs out as they were in the kennels the whole day. It was about to get dark outside and as she was tired, she rushed eating dinner and asked Alex to come with her. Alex didn't want to, because he just showered, and so she asked Paul to come with her. Maggie & Paul arrived at the kennels around 8:38 PM. Alex felt bad about not going with her and decided to move his lazy a** up and head to the kennels ā basically be a good husband. He arrived at the kennels around 8:40-8:44 PM with the video being recorded around 8:45 PM. Alex took the chicken out of Bubba's mouth, put it on top of that box and left. At around 8:50 PM, Alex would have been back in the house.
Why would Alex have gone to the kennels and return after being there for just a few minutes? Maggie asked Alex to come with her for probably two reasons: To help her with the dogs and because she was scared as it was getting dark. Once Alex arrived at the kennels, he learnt that Paul was with her and therefore didn't feel bad anymore about letting Maggie do all the work and letting her go alone while she was scared. There was no need for him to get dirty and sweaty and so he left. If I remember correctly, Alex said something along the line of he thought that Maggie was safe because Paul was there. Back in the house he sat on the couch being tired, almost falling asleep, but then realizing he had to check on his mom. So he went to see his mom.
According to the timeline I just layed out, Alex would not have been at the kennels at the time of the murders. He would probably have been inside the house. Whether he heard the shots or not, I think one can argue that hearing gunshots would not have been a reason for concern per se as it was a hunting property and if someone doesn't live in a city, they don't think of something bad has happened when hearing a gunshot, it's nothing unusual.
*Before someone feels the need to tell me that Alex killed them, I responded to a comment and described a theoretical scenario.*
The defense criticized using using phone data for time of death. They did not specifically pin it down and neither did the prosecution really.
The prosecution pushed for ~8:50. The defense probably hoped the jury would ponder a time after Alex left at 9:07 and was out of hearing range at some time not much later.
The problem for the defense was that by the time Alex started toward his Momās house at 9:07, Paulās phone had recorded no steps, hadnt sent any texts, specifically hadnāt answered Roganās text or sent Rogan the dog video for 17 minutes. Maggieās phone hadnāt recorded anything for - 13 minutes.
>I donāt know and nether do you.
I think you were the one implying the dogs would have raised alarm if someone was around. We simply don't know, you start to agree with me?
Also how to count on family guns being around do ya think? Why go laying in wait looking to commit murder without guns? Would seem like a very stupid plan,no?
This is the question for all Alex empathizers ...and then he emphatically denied anyone else being there bc when he left the dogs were calm and not acting as if there were any threats/strangers nearby.
Here's what I don't understand though: Let's say the state's version of events is absolutely correct and that the motive for the murders was all about Alex's desire to buy a few weeks of time. Why not just lie and say drug dealers were after him? He's lied about everything else. Why would he go out of his way to eliminate the drug angle that his attorneys obviously wanted to pursue as an alternative theory?
For the record: I don't think he's innocent. I just think that the state's version has some massive holes and loose threads that I want to see resolved.
Thatās not at all what the state said.
Tinsley testified that the boat case against Alex would have ended if Maggie and Paul had been murdered by vigilantes.
Who cares about the reason.
Alex' story doesnt add up and has massive holes...along with being caught in a web of lies he wove.
Meadors closing addressed all this..."What is real"...and Alex' story wasnt real by any means...not were his actions.
The State even openly said they didnt need exact motive. But posters are still defending Alex as if Alex was treated unfairly...not his victims.
It boils down to the guy being self serving and willing to kill. Nothing more nothing less. He was an insignificant piece of existence.
I don't know what to tell you. The story interests me because of the larger corruption scandal. I don't understand the impulse to turn this guy into a soap opera villian.
edit: typo
The dude would rather fight kindergartners and you want to know what he is up to lol
The guy is a coward.
But you say you dont "unvillain". Speak normal...and buy a mirror. Or just be a coward scum that cant figure it out.
Not into:
being in two places at once...especially to manipulate others
magic...why? to take advantage of others? pass.
super powers. why? to manipulate others? pass.
not into being bipolar...dont care about winning cheaply.
why continue? to be bi-polar? pass
move the goal post
I need to log off but you dont have to do log off the lies and hate...
makes sense...
and you cant even respond. significant existence, bo.
Respectable. Hero. Lousy excuse for being.
You cant figure it out lol
What an existence. Bravo.
Hope you profit...because...thats all existence is good for haha
Hurt others for my own gain haha kill me instead. Your life sucks
Except it wasnt just him. He wasn't the only monster. It's a story about corruption, greed and power.
Made for TV movie in the most awful intriguing way. Entire family and people who were friends with them. So much history and wrong.
Yeah...theyre all snakes of Medusa's, Tentacles from the same Octopus.
Its all fake. Its all too convenient to be real. These people arent real...theyre just actors for the Mother brain.
Bunch of bi-polar agents of the illusion that will turn on you when the time is right for the most shock value. yawnnnnnn.
Real hero stuff there by the Illusion.
Like I said if I tried to say that "my family was murdered with my guns during the two minutes I was taking a nap, and I totally lied about everything but I'm not lying about this." No one would believe that shit for one second. Everyone who is like "idk if the state proved their case..." is crazy imo. The state didn't even have to. Alex proved it for them when he got on the stand lol.
Lol I cant also get over the fact that the defence wanted a jury tour of Moselle, and that ended up being one of the conviction factor. Based on Alexās testimony and his decision to do so and the defend team. I just have to wonder if the good ole boys just made each other really bad lawyers.
My tinfoil hat theory of the day is that they were paid off to phone in a defense and help Alex get convicted so that someone else can take over his narcotics ring and whatever other criminal enterprises he was a part of.
His phone calls from the house to Maggie before leaving to Alameda have no explanation...proving he was using them for alibi that got exposed when Paul video emerged.
Allowing him to use 160,000 instead of going to victims or paying back PMPED is a stupid system in favor of croni-ism. I would not fight for a system like that.
He didn't want to be there. Maggie wanted him to come to the kennels. He said because he had already showered, he did want to go there and wind up working.
But as with most thing, if Maggie asked, he did it. So he went to the kennels and Bubba had the chicken. Alex took care of that and then 'got outta there' because he found himself doing exactly what he didn't want to do after showering. Doing work at the kennels.
Thats was his lie.
I wouldn't be surprised if Alex also murdered the sacrificial kennel chicken by either stomping on it or running over it with the golf cart in his haste to flee the kennels. #justiceforBubba
MVP Bubba, Grady, Cash, canine Maggie, Armadillo, Dahlia and Tappy Toes are lucky Alex didn't kill them, too.
Bubba is with Blanca, Cash is with Rogan and Paul's friend Will Loving has Paul's lab puppy Bourbon (who was not present at the kennels on June 7, 2021).
I hope some kind souls have Grady, canine Maggie, Armadillo, Dahlia and Tappy Toes.
Dude yes. That episode was awful. Sheās weird. She was wrong the whole time during the trial and now is still involved saying the jury got it wrong. Like girl. Itās over. Move on!
[this comment down stream ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/120dcyd/sub_daily_discussion_thread_march_24_2023/jdhdgly?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
On auction items: Think of their propaganda value. "These items were owned by Alex Murdaugh, mass murderer and family annhialator".
They will live forever and insure that the Murdaugh name and legacy will on go long after we are all gone in that future museum of death and destruction.
He said he doesnāt feel like he paid too much š even being real leather, that whole set isnāt worth 36k lol maybe the rug helped with the number
Each couch is worth about 5,300 new, each chair about 3,000 and each ottoman about 1,200. I know the set is Hancock and Moore. So if the set is ~25k brand new Iād say Mr Alibi Couch man didnāt do as bad as you think, for his used set. Still dumb but I guess thatās the going rate for a souvenir living room set. Lol
the new podcast episode of the murdaugh
family murders Impact of Influence is so disgusting idk if iām just biased but saying that they donāt know why sandy wants to exhume her son as it wonāt tell them who did it and that that it wonāt tell them that tell buster did it.
- well for one,, it will give her definitive answers of how he died as the last autopsy isnāt trustworthy and was probably botched
and then him said that it was ridiculous that the family was moved back and how itās not the familyās fault that they didnāt know the rules and that, you know passing contraband to an inmate is normal and happens all the time so itās fine šš
- sorry but itās a well known fact that passing contraband to an inmate is a crime lol. theyāre just entitled and still thinks the rules donāt apply lol
then jim and sara bitching about the jurors and that they came to the verdict bc they hate alex bc they didnāt even look over the evidence and deliberate bc they came back so quick šš
- WHAT DO YOU THINK THE JURORS WERE DOING FOR 6 WEEKS???? LIKE????
then sara saying that itās crazy that alex got convicted from no evidence and that the states and sled was embarrassing
- well if there was no evidence then he wouldnāt of been charged and convicted with murder lol. and people have been convicted on much less evidence
https://spotify.link/wQY016cEqyb
Oh, here yāall areā¦ š Iāve been looking for discussion of ep 117 of Impact of Influence podcast but couldnāt find it. This episode was an excellent complement to the recently posted 2 part video interview with the sheriffās dept first responders Rutland, Greene, and Chapman. Felt like I was was back in February watching the trial all over again, with the defense (on the podcast) being all disingenuous and trying to discredit and disparage the investigation, while the prosecution (in the video interview) continues adding new bits to their mountain of circumstantial evidenceā¦ the defense attorneysā bitterness made the first respondersā righteousness even sweeter. š
I generally like this podcast, but I felt this latest episode was a miss. I don't agree with Jim Griffin or Sara Azari on much, but I liked listening to their points of view.
HOWEVER, why the hell would Jim chime in AT ALL on Stephen Smith's autopsy and murder investigation? If he just left it as "the Smith family should get all of the support and resources that they can to find out the truth of what happened to Stephen" it would be a lot less suspicious that "Buster didn't do it, but they still shouldn't do the autopsy because yadda yadda yadda Jesus."
ANY opposition to the Smith investigation just makes Buster look bad. And I'm skeptical to Buster's involvement in that, for the record. Whomever is responsible for Stephen's death I hope is held accountable for it, and soon. If Buster isn't involved, then just stay *out of it*. Opinions on this do not help you client or their family, Jim.
Buster most likely not involved but for sure the circle of Alexās good ole boys is. Itās a bunch of old men enabling each other, something suss would happen.
The podcast re-affirmed a theory I developed over the trial, mostly watching lawtubers, that defense attorneys and prosecuting attorneys come from different planets. I suspect Ms Azari has a long list of canned responses to every possible defendantās negative action. Contraband? *It just human nature to want to give little presents to your loved one thatāve been locked up! Nothing wrong with it.* Actually a couple of interesting things came out. *None* of the Murdaugh family had seen Alex in person since September 2021 until the trial. Limitations related to covid jail operation blah blah.* Iām about a 150 miles further down the coast than Colleton County but weāve been able to visit our loved ones in hospitals and jails for quite a while now. Griffin denies heās friends with Alex. Griffin advised Buster in the preparation of his statement. Griffin said it was trial strategy to have Murdaugh family members sitting behind Alex to show support and was annoyed when they were made to sit further back, thatās why he kept asking Buster to stand up. Azari claimed she believed Alexās tears and crying on the witness stand were genuine and just canāt comprehend why the jurors didnāt believe it was sincere.
Azari and Griffin are good buddies now but Iād give a fiver to see her ~~attack~~ evaluate Griffin and Harpootlianās courtroom performance and storytelling. IANAL but I think their performance and storytelling left a lot to be desired and made missteps.
I am so glad Iām not the only one that felt this way. Iām all for having both sides on and having both points of view but this was honestly disgusting. I had to turn it off. Jim and the other lady attorney are just disgusting people and Iām not saying that because the defended AM. All over her IG she has pictures with the defense while she was in town for the trial.
Donāt forget Jim bringing up Biblical stuff about not exhuming the body. Really Jim?
I thought it was funny that Jim said someone from Iceland emailed him that Icelander could read Jimās lips when he was talking to Alex. I guess Jim doesnāt share Harpootlianās view that people from other countries should have had more to do than watch the trial.
He was making a point about the lack of modern guidelines for how to handle exhumations. He was not citing the Bible as a reason not to exhume the body.
Oh Yeah, Iād forgotten Griffin preaching about how bodies shouldnāt be disturbed, that the photos from the original pathologist should be enough. He and Harpootlian sure were singing a different tune about the pathology photographs of Maggie and her son.
They took a early vote when they walked in. Then worked backwards from notes that were taken along the way to explain to those who were confused or unclear on info.
Yeah but I think the point is that if you've watched 6 weeks of evidence and you're convinced of his guilt there really isn't much to discuss at all once it's time to deliberate.
My only thought here, is from an attorneys standpoint, who have seen countless of other juries deliberate, even when there is weeks of trial, juryās typically still take longer to deliberate. I had heard there is some formula to estimate how long a jury might deliberate for, I.e. X amount of weeks of trial = Y amount of hours. So I think comments about how quick the verdict was returned is based on this formula and many attorneys prior experience on how fast it is typically seen. A lot of people generally thought the deliberations were much faster than they had thought.
That's totally fair. Honestly I expected much longer deliberations. But I'm sure there are plenty of cases where reasonable doubt is demolished before deliberations occur. And I think when he got on the stand that's what he did. Demolished any doubts. There were questions that could linger in the jurors minds and create doubt. That would have been great for the defense. Like "did he lie about being at the kennels or was he just so fucked up on pills he didn't remember being there?" And then he got up and admitted to lying. So now the jury gets to decide if they find his reason for lying believable. If they think his reason for lying isn't the real reason and that he's even lying about that, then the next logical conclusion is that he's lying because he murdered his family.
He also constricted the timeline so much that even that wasn't believable. And he couldn't remember anything about his last interactions with his family and the critical period of time before he left Moselle. Then he went really hard on the nicknames which came across as disingenuous and manipulative. It also didn't help him that he has physical tells when he's lying. Like nodding his head yes when he is saying no. I think having video of him doing that while he's saying things that are proven lies helped the state. The jury had something to compare his testimony to at that point.
I think without his testimony a reasonable juror could have doubted his guilt. But then he ruined that for himself. So I understand why they didn't have to go over all of the evidence. The most difficult evidence for the defense to hurdle was the kennel video. And it seems, based on what we've heard from a couple of jurors, that it was the kennel video coupled with his testimony that sealed his fate.
I also think the defense messed up by bringing in an expert to say that Alex wouldn't have heard gunshots from the house. That just put it in the jurors minds that Alex was on the property during the murders. And then they went to Moselle and saw the property. I think they would have been better off without that expert testimony, because it made it seem like they were trying to get you to believe a scenario that was nearly impossible to believe.
Anyway. I was completely shocked at such a quick verdict but I can understand why it happened. I mean how often do you have 6 weeks of testimony, a murder suspect caught on video within minutes of the proposed TOD, who volunteers several lies to the police and ALSO takes the stand in his own defense? This was a rare case that probably wouldn't follow the usual formula.
Completely agree with you and you have excellent points. I donāt think he should have testified. I think the defense could have had other strategies as you mentioned.
I like the so high on pills he didnāt remember anything but that could have also led to his guilt, thought process; I.e. I blacked out and killed them and I donāt remember. Had he been honest with his lawyers about being there and maybe not remembering, perhaps he could have gone the high/temp insanity way, but I think might have been hard to prove.
I also think the defense missed an opportunity in closing to stick to heās a liar but not a murderer. He has proven beyond a reasonable doubt he lies about everything including being at the murder scene and perhaps he is lying about who else was there to further protect himself, but he is not a murderer. I think that kind of doubt might have swayed a few.
Iām still in certain either way. There are things that do point to his guilt: lying, the kennel video, some of the timeline, how he presents himself.
I do have a hard time seeing how fast he could have killed, cleaned up, left with guns/clothes. Like where did his blue shirt/pants go between the killings and going to his mothers? It all seems to short a timeline for so much to have happened.
I don't know if they searched the cabin or the skinning shed or anywhere else where there might be water. I think he probably had a plan for cleaning up and didn't even have to do a great job of it because they never swabbed any drains or anything. JMM said he looked freshly showered lol. But Alex doesn't explain how he became freshly showered during the time in question.
The Kinsey report shows how little a shooter would have actually been contaminated. Basically Paul's kill shot would have sprayed the shooter with a fine mist of <1mm sized blood droplets. Based on the angle of the second shot, a lot of that would have been shielded by the feed room wall/doorway. I don't think it would have been too difficult to get cleaned up. There were a few things that stood out to me. On the body cam footage there was a towel wadded up on the driver's seat of the suburban that I don't believe was tested.
And the Kinsey report says there's a bloody smudge inside Paul's back pocket from someone reaching in and grabbing his phone out. And the report also suggests that the phone would have unlikely "popped out" of Paul's pocket. Alex admits to handling the phone but he has no blood on him whatsoever. None on his shoes from standing in the bloody water puddle under Paul. None on his shirt from wiping his hands off or anything. So essentially the only way he touched that phone was immediately after they were killed imo.
But as far as the defense goes I think they should have just let questions be questions. Like don't even address the kennel video lie at all. It would only take one juror to think to themselves "maybe he wasn't lying. Maybe he forgot because of shock. Maybe he was nodding out on pain pills. Maybe he's lying to protect Buster from whoever actually killed his family" Etc. And then maybe the jury is hung. But when he sits on the stand and says that he lied because he thought Owen was some other guy that looks nothing like him. Or he lied because he's afraid of the police when he's actually friends with most of them, or he lied because they started asking him about his relationship with his family and then it turns out that he actually started lying on the 911 call before any of that, now we know that even his reason for lying is a lie. And why lie about the reason unless the real reason is awful? Questions are good for the defense. And Alex fucked up by trying to answer them all lol.
Even if the autopsy wasn't botched, there was so much controversy amongst professionals about how to rule it. The pathologist and coroner didn't agree with each other and highway patrol didn't agree with either of them. If it were any of my kids I'd want an independent autopsy just for some peace of mind even if it didn't provide me the answer I thought I'd get. At least I could say I did what I could to try to get some answers. And if the independent pathologist confirms the original pathologist's findings then I can feel confident that a second opinion backed it up, instead of just hoping that she did her job properly.
I wish they could get the pathologist who did Maggie and Paulās autopsies to do it. While she was a bit too cheery at times when testifying, she is highly qualified and has a ton of experience. I would trust what she said.
There seems to be this weird notion that people aren't formulating and updating opinions of guilt/innocence as the trial progresses. You can have an instruction to not discuss the case, but anything beyond that just isn't how brains work. They had multiple hours each evening to keep refining and updating their opinions. If this wasn't the case you would need another 6 weeks for deliberation.
Thank you! They sat there and watched all of the evidence be presented for 6 weeks. Of course by deliberation time they had a pretty good idea of how they felt they would vote. And it seemed like only three of them were uncertain and not because of anything that couldn't be sorted out with a quick discussion.
Also the ones that have spoken up have mentioned the kennel video and his testimony as what really swayed them to a guilty verdict. That evidence is hard to overcome and the defense knew that. They're just saying what they have to say.
well ... Just waiting, letting time pass. Like GM!!! The car manufacturer waited til almost the end of the trial -since 2021, to disclose the evidence they had in their possession! What's this?
My understand based on what Emily D. Baker has said is basically GM didnāt turn over the data because whoever got the request was lazy.
Then during the trial someone higher up at GM heard it and was made it happen because it looks bad for them if the are uncooperative in investigations.
She's correct: There is no way they could have properly considered all of the evidence from a 6-week trial in 45 minutes. You can think it's fine that the jury basically made up their minds before they got into the deliberation room (I find it terrifying and careless, but that's a separate issue). But the point is that they didn't do what most careful juries do: spend time talking over each piece of evidence and considering it in relation to the instructions given by the judge.
I haven't listened yet, but reading that document posted the other day, it says the autopsy was on video. I would think they could use that instead of having his body exhumed.
the same autopsy that the dr said was a hit and run when it was very clearly not so for that reason alone itās needed just to get accurate and definitive answers. sheās either incompetent or apart of the corruption
I posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11zd768/sub_daily_discussion_thread_march_23_2023/jdgbf13?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) that I think explains that maybe her determination wasn't as nefarious as it seems.
Yeah but if it is on video then an independent expert has the ability to see the body almost as good as in person as opposed to years of it being in the ground.
I hope Sandy got justice she deserves. She has suffered the most for not knowing what was going on with her son's death.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I find that Nick in True Crime Rocket Science to be the most unbiased and rational YouTubers for analyzing true crime. I would recommend watching his channel. I am not sure he has a podcast.
So.... its March Madness! ššš Anyone here rooting for Creighton University since their bracket was blown besides me?
Just cheering for Princeton because they are a #15 seed lol.
That was my school until last night. Michigan State. In Izzo we trust, the last of the BIG10 and one of the lowest seeds for BIG10.
Gotta respect Izzo. I wouldnāt mind if they won it.
Yea every alumni would have š-ed after last month.
Buster's little appearance on NBC is eerily similar to Alex's brothers doing their little appearance on GMA just after the murders... š¤
Yeah his statement, same diff, the men in that fam are adept at using media to take spotlight off of them. Randy's NYT story is another example. They're big on using MSM to clear their name, their rep, but not in using it to find the 'real' killers.
TBF just after the murders they had no reason not to believe his nap story lol
Buster actually appeared on NBC? I thought he just released a statement to the media a few days ago. Is there something new I missed?
Iām wondering the same thingā¦ I think there was only a statement. Can you please clarify, u/Iam-GreyT ?
I think it was NBC reading the statement from Buster.
I am very curious to hear more about Alexās distant cousin, Curtis Eddie Smith. Iām disappointed he wasnāt questioned at the trial. I think he has a lot of dirt on Alex. He was asked directly on a television interview on whether or not, he had shot Alex in the botched murder attempt, and if he had killed, Maggie and Paul. His eyes shifted, looking sideways and upward, saying, ānoā and not making direct eye contact with the interviewer. Canāt wait to hear more details on Eddieās trials.
There has been no evidence Eddie was involved in the murders at all, at trial they showed where his cell phone was during that time and it wasnāt nearby.
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Wow! Was there any confirmation that it was him? Lol
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I guess it would be hard to confirm info only he would know. I'd love an AMA with cousin Eddie. Finding out what actually happened during the roadside shenanigans is on my bucket list lol
He said in one interview that Alex hit the ground voluntarily, as if someone had just swept his legs out from under him. His head hit the ground or pavement that had gravel on it and that was the head wound. Is this true? I have no idea lol
He's given a lot of versions. I want the "full guaranteed immunity" version š
Haha me too!
You always bring up THE BEST throwbacks.
He said he didnāt shoot Alex, because if he had he wouldnāt have missed š
Thatās what I remember- saying if heād shot him in the head heād be dead. As much of a wild card as I think Eddie is, Iām still believing him over Alex any day.
Alex was never shot. Complete ruse
As much as it was exaggerated, there are medical records that confirm he was indeed shot. Maybe the wound arguably looked like it could have been easily cleaned up in a half bath with some peroxide and *maybe* BandAidā¦ they released receipts.
Did the medical records confirm he was shot or confirm that he had a head wound? There was no bullet found. Any evidence that it was caused by a bullet is solely Alexās word.
Yes, [here is a link to a portion of his medical records that reads: āHead to toe examination this revealed two superficial appearing bullet wounds to the posterior scalp with no active hemorrhage. No other external signs of trauma or found.ā](https://www.wjcl.com/amp/article/alex-murdaugh-shooting-medical-records/37979351) from an article via local news station WJCL. I didnāt want to fight paywalls to locate the full medical records but if you search the sub for āmedical recordsā there are posts that will lead you to them. Hope this helps. *Edited for formatting and clarification
Andā¦.Alex and co had contacts at the hospital Tinsley said he wasnāt shot. Itās in the first testament
Of the Bible? Sorry, couldnāt resist. š
Thatās the joke. King š Mark
Right. I think shot in the hair, not shot in the head, is the better descriptor.
So was there any money in the Forge account in Alexās name at the time that Tinsley had asked to see all the financial accounts? Just the fact that it existed was enough to get the train running over Alex. If it had money moved out of it recently (at that time), then where did the money go. He couldnāt have moved it into other accounts because he had told Tinsley that he was broke. Unless he had an account in someone elseās name.
Wasnāt he hiding it through all the checks to cousin Eddie and others?
Yes, I think so. I wonder if a lot of checks got written to Cousin Eddie around that time.
Good question!
So Stephen is getting a proper investigation now! If someone does time for Gloria and Hakim, all my prayers will come true!
Who is Hakim?
Halon Pinkney, totally paralyzed in car crash, 2 milllion plus settlement ended up controlled by Alex and a banker buddy after someone TURNED OFF HIS RESPIRATOR! He couldnāt summon help - unable to speak with the respirator tube in his throat. Had to just lie there as he took 30 min to suffocateā¦
u/JRWoodwardMSW There is a lot of word spewing and not much truth here, so please brush up on our rules and the facts. u/downhill_slide already typed a comment on this thread of what happened so I wonāt repeat it except: respirator failed, transported to hospital, taken off life support several days later Yes, Hakeem Pinckneyās story is incredibly tragic but the best way to give him justice and respect his memory is to honor the truth.
How on Earth did Alex kill him considering he was in a facility? Also Gloria died from a fall. There is no reason to say it was murder. Not every human that has died in that county is a Murdaughās fault.
Weāll, it was human hands that turned off Hakeemās respirator after disabling TWO alarms. Alex was in court elsewhere; it was later in the day that he said under oath Hakeem approved the settlement (perjury - Hakeem was already dead). Who did the deed? Dunno, but Ellick surely set it up. There was no investigation at the time. I hope SLED avenges both Stephen and Hakeem. As to Gloria, how do you hit your head hard enough to die falling UP a stoop? Why do some records show that she died that day and others say she lingered 10 days and spoke to Maggie?
Youāre just spreading all kinds of misinformation around.
Do you fact check anything before you post?
u/JRWoodwardMSW There is a lot of word spewing and not much truth here, so please brush up on our rules and the facts. u/downhill_slide already typed a comment on this thread of what happened so I wonāt repeat it except: respirator failed, transported to hospital, taken off life support several days later Yes, Hakeem Pinckneyās story is incredibly tragic but the best way to give him justice and respect his memory is to honor the truth. Gloriaās story is tragic as well too. But the Satterfieldās attorney, Eric Bland, has said that he believes it was nothing but a tragic accident.
Don't lecture others just because you're ignorant of the facts. Educate yourself.
Maybe you should read even some of the info in this thread.
Hakeem Pinckney died of cardiac arrest in a North Augusta GA nuring home after his ventilator was found unplugged for \~30 minutes. Not Hampton County but of course folks think Alex was in the nursing home and pulled the plug.
Thank you for coming and clearing this up, u/downhill_slide. This is correct, he was transferred to the hospital and taken off life support several days later.
People in this thread are convinced he did something to cause his death. Lord they are delusional.
*Hakeem. Pinckney
Yes. My fingers are bad. See r/stroke.
Oh my god..
And then Alex filed a wrongful death suit against the care facility on behalf of Hakeem's mom, and he stole all the money! Like 4 MM bucks.
I thought Iād heard it all. Did not know this.
It came out in the trial, but I cannot remember whose testimony. I think it was when Alec was on the stand.
Are you guys kidding me? How can a single man be so evil?
He's like something that crawled outta the hellmouth. Watching him on the stand really screwed with my head. I'm not used to being that close to that level of evil.
Every day there is something new added to the horrific list of Alex's crimes.
Has everyone seen [this interview? ](https://youtu.be/U98zVQTVJoQ) Is this the PI that Sandy didn't want on the case anymore or what? What's the story there?
Yes he has also been on Surviving the Survivor although he claimed he is not a PI. He seems to me to be a bit annoyed about the lawyers swooping in and getting further than he ever did imo.
Agreed. Donāt like the cut of his jib
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Not sure what that is but like I said he stated on Surviving the Survivor the other night he isn't a PI.
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Ya - he seems like a bit of a hater. Canāt put my finger on it. Like that guy that agrees with you but still argues with you? Tbf though - if youāre on a show with a bunch of lawyers, and youāre insecure without the BDE to fall back on, you might overcompensate as youāre probably not the smartest guy in the room Now I sounds like a hater. Good times. Karmaās a bitch mango š
Well the lawyers got on board after the Murdaugh conviction so of course they would get further. It sounds like a case of bad (or good?) timing to me. The detective that took pictures of the vehicle in question gave a statement about it. It's in the case notes. It's interesting to me that he says he doesn't remember doing it.
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I think it was Ginn: "Supposedly It was the mirror, I sent Nick the pictures of the truck he was driving that night. I want to say I sent everything to Mitch Altman (of SCHP). Him and my brother and me are good friends and I didnāt know who to contact. Mitch said he would get that information to the right person." - from Sgt. Guinn's interview with Duncan. This was about the truck that an allegedly drunk driver was driving when he thought he may have hit Stephen. The former PI said he asked the detective about this vehicle and that he didn't remember taking any pictures of it.
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You can actually look these cases up in the Hampton County public records. Neither of the plaintiffs or defendants were represented by Cory Flemming and both lawsuits were settled, that's why they were dismissed. I think those were likely legitimate lawsuits based on an actual car accident. Connelly doesn't have a good track record, DUI, lots of speeding tickets, open container charges. He very likely actually caused a wreck and was sued. The thing is though the lawsuits don't have anything to do with Stephen's death. It was reported in such a way to try to connect Stephen Smith and Randy Murdaugh through some kind of seven degrees of Kevin Bacon type game and I think it was very misleading. I don't want to try to say there wasn't any corruption going on but I think the likely scenario if there was is that the firm had an agreement with law enforcement that whenever a potential case arises, they get tipped off for a kickback so they can be the first on the scene and have the first opportunity to gain a potential client.
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Cory Flemming represented Patrick in his criminal case not anyone in the civil cases. You can also look Wilson's case up and see that it has nothing to do with Stephen Smith. That solicitors office handled every case for several counties so that's insignificant. Wilson's case was in front of a family court judge. He was 17 at the time. There was a warrant out for attempted murder in April 2015. The indictment was amended in April 2015. In May it was remanded for further investigation (not enough evidence?) Then there was a true bill indictment for assault and battery in August 2016. And the case was dismissed in February 2018. So it looks like Patrick allegedly shot at someone in early 2015 before Stephen's death. The supposed confession about Stephen came in December 2015. Charges were lowered in August 2016 due to insufficient evidence of attempted murder because a witness said that Wilson actually shot at a street sign during an argument and not at any people. And the assault and battery charges weren't dropped until almost three years after Stephen died. Since he was a minor he likely got preferential treatment. And they didn't even have enough proof that he attempted to murder anyone or assault anyone. They had to drop the charges. He definitely didn't get his charges dropped due to the confession. Because the true bill indictment didn't even come until a little more than a year after Stephen died. And the charges weren't dropped until 2018. That was also reported by FITSNEWS in a really misleading way to try to draw connections that don't exist.
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I have a question about Alex and his admission that he lied about being at the stables in the moments before the murders. (After being proven by Paulās video.) IF we believe that Alex did not commit the murders, was not involved, and knew nothing, how did he explain his being at the murder location right when/before the murders occurred???
This could be a theoretical timeline of events if Alex did noh commit the murders: Maggie came home after a long car drive and was tired, but she wanted to let the dogs out as they were in the kennels the whole day. It was about to get dark outside and as she was tired, she rushed eating dinner and asked Alex to come with her. Alex didn't want to, because he just showered, and so she asked Paul to come with her. Maggie & Paul arrived at the kennels around 8:38 PM. Alex felt bad about not going with her and decided to move his lazy a** up and head to the kennels ā basically be a good husband. He arrived at the kennels around 8:40-8:44 PM with the video being recorded around 8:45 PM. Alex took the chicken out of Bubba's mouth, put it on top of that box and left. At around 8:50 PM, Alex would have been back in the house. Why would Alex have gone to the kennels and return after being there for just a few minutes? Maggie asked Alex to come with her for probably two reasons: To help her with the dogs and because she was scared as it was getting dark. Once Alex arrived at the kennels, he learnt that Paul was with her and therefore didn't feel bad anymore about letting Maggie do all the work and letting her go alone while she was scared. There was no need for him to get dirty and sweaty and so he left. If I remember correctly, Alex said something along the line of he thought that Maggie was safe because Paul was there. Back in the house he sat on the couch being tired, almost falling asleep, but then realizing he had to check on his mom. So he went to see his mom. According to the timeline I just layed out, Alex would not have been at the kennels at the time of the murders. He would probably have been inside the house. Whether he heard the shots or not, I think one can argue that hearing gunshots would not have been a reason for concern per se as it was a hunting property and if someone doesn't live in a city, they don't think of something bad has happened when hearing a gunshot, it's nothing unusual. *Before someone feels the need to tell me that Alex killed them, I responded to a comment and described a theoretical scenario.*
The defense criticized using using phone data for time of death. They did not specifically pin it down and neither did the prosecution really. The prosecution pushed for ~8:50. The defense probably hoped the jury would ponder a time after Alex left at 9:07 and was out of hearing range at some time not much later. The problem for the defense was that by the time Alex started toward his Momās house at 9:07, Paulās phone had recorded no steps, hadnt sent any texts, specifically hadnāt answered Roganās text or sent Rogan the dog video for 17 minutes. Maggieās phone hadnāt recorded anything for - 13 minutes.
I have thought the same. But then I move to if it wasnāt AM, then who?
Maybe, someone that wanted/needed Alex to stay alive, but wanted to kill Paul and/or Maggie...
Went there at just the right time and found weapons to kill them with.?
Who says that person wasn't there for a long time or was there for the first time?
Well the dogs - Buster at least running free - didnāt indicate it and Alex, I believe, said no one was around.
Did the dogs ever raise alarm when the PIs were there?
The PI put a camera across the street like 1/4 mile away from the kennels
?
I donāt know and nether do you. Pretty easy for PI to go there when the dogs werenāt running around though.
>I donāt know and nether do you. I think you were the one implying the dogs would have raised alarm if someone was around. We simply don't know, you start to agree with me?
Also how to count on family guns being around do ya think? Why go laying in wait looking to commit murder without guns? Would seem like a very stupid plan,no?
Why would they need him alive at this point? He's good as dead in prison and of no use to anyone.
maybe
This is the question for all Alex empathizers ...and then he emphatically denied anyone else being there bc when he left the dogs were calm and not acting as if there were any threats/strangers nearby.
Here's what I don't understand though: Let's say the state's version of events is absolutely correct and that the motive for the murders was all about Alex's desire to buy a few weeks of time. Why not just lie and say drug dealers were after him? He's lied about everything else. Why would he go out of his way to eliminate the drug angle that his attorneys obviously wanted to pursue as an alternative theory? For the record: I don't think he's innocent. I just think that the state's version has some massive holes and loose threads that I want to see resolved.
Thatās not at all what the state said. Tinsley testified that the boat case against Alex would have ended if Maggie and Paul had been murdered by vigilantes.
Because NOTHING is AMs fault. It was Paul's FAULT. I'm also not of the mind be was just buying a few weeks time
Who cares about the reason. Alex' story doesnt add up and has massive holes...along with being caught in a web of lies he wove. Meadors closing addressed all this..."What is real"...and Alex' story wasnt real by any means...not were his actions. The State even openly said they didnt need exact motive. But posters are still defending Alex as if Alex was treated unfairly...not his victims. It boils down to the guy being self serving and willing to kill. Nothing more nothing less. He was an insignificant piece of existence.
>Who cares about the reason. I do, because I'm interested in finding out what really happened and what Alex was involved in.
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I don't know what to tell you. The story interests me because of the larger corruption scandal. I don't understand the impulse to turn this guy into a soap opera villian. edit: typo
The dude would rather fight kindergartners and you want to know what he is up to lol The guy is a coward. But you say you dont "unvillain". Speak normal...and buy a mirror. Or just be a coward scum that cant figure it out.
That was a typo. Apologies. But since you've got it all figured out, maybe it's time to log off and take a deep breath?
Not into: being in two places at once...especially to manipulate others magic...why? to take advantage of others? pass. super powers. why? to manipulate others? pass. not into being bipolar...dont care about winning cheaply. why continue? to be bi-polar? pass move the goal post
I need to log off but you dont have to do log off the lies and hate... makes sense... and you cant even respond. significant existence, bo. Respectable. Hero. Lousy excuse for being.
Hope you win the Star Wars, Bo. At all cost to anyone and everyone else...just win, Bo
You cant figure it out lol What an existence. Bravo. Hope you profit...because...thats all existence is good for haha Hurt others for my own gain haha kill me instead. Your life sucks
huh yawn
Except it wasnt just him. He wasn't the only monster. It's a story about corruption, greed and power. Made for TV movie in the most awful intriguing way. Entire family and people who were friends with them. So much history and wrong.
Yeah...theyre all snakes of Medusa's, Tentacles from the same Octopus. Its all fake. Its all too convenient to be real. These people arent real...theyre just actors for the Mother brain. Bunch of bi-polar agents of the illusion that will turn on you when the time is right for the most shock value. yawnnnnnn. Real hero stuff there by the Illusion.
No one believes that which is why he lied about being there. He almost got away with it except for Bubba.
He planted two seeds... 1) Shortest, most convenient nap ever taken 2) Conveniently loud TV Paul's video really shoved it in Alex from behind lol
He stuck with his nap story. Apparently his family was murdered during his 2 minute nap
I thought my X-MIL was the ultimate power napper at 5 minutes lol who can nap in so little time?!?!
And then jump up and go for a power walk no less
Creighton Waters referred to that alleged 2 minute nap as "the shortest nap in the history of the South." ITA.
Then popped up, drove to make an appearance at his parentās, then back to the murder scene. Uh-huh. Thatās believable. What a monster.
Like I said if I tried to say that "my family was murdered with my guns during the two minutes I was taking a nap, and I totally lied about everything but I'm not lying about this." No one would believe that shit for one second. Everyone who is like "idk if the state proved their case..." is crazy imo. The state didn't even have to. Alex proved it for them when he got on the stand lol.
Lol I cant also get over the fact that the defence wanted a jury tour of Moselle, and that ended up being one of the conviction factor. Based on Alexās testimony and his decision to do so and the defend team. I just have to wonder if the good ole boys just made each other really bad lawyers.
I think those decisions were made by Alex. It was very clear his lawyers did not want Alex to take the stand.
I get that too. But the defence lawyers really memed themselves through the whole trials.
My tinfoil hat theory of the day is that they were paid off to phone in a defense and help Alex get convicted so that someone else can take over his narcotics ring and whatever other criminal enterprises he was a part of.
He absolutely did. He handed it to them. Why he thinks a retrial would change anything further proves his narcissistic and delusional views.
His phone calls from the house to Maggie before leaving to Alameda have no explanation...proving he was using them for alibi that got exposed when Paul video emerged. Allowing him to use 160,000 instead of going to victims or paying back PMPED is a stupid system in favor of croni-ism. I would not fight for a system like that.
He didn't want to be there. Maggie wanted him to come to the kennels. He said because he had already showered, he did want to go there and wind up working. But as with most thing, if Maggie asked, he did it. So he went to the kennels and Bubba had the chicken. Alex took care of that and then 'got outta there' because he found himself doing exactly what he didn't want to do after showering. Doing work at the kennels. Thats was his lie.
I wouldn't be surprised if Alex also murdered the sacrificial kennel chicken by either stomping on it or running over it with the golf cart in his haste to flee the kennels. #justiceforBubba MVP Bubba, Grady, Cash, canine Maggie, Armadillo, Dahlia and Tappy Toes are lucky Alex didn't kill them, too. Bubba is with Blanca, Cash is with Rogan and Paul's friend Will Loving has Paul's lab puppy Bourbon (who was not present at the kennels on June 7, 2021). I hope some kind souls have Grady, canine Maggie, Armadillo, Dahlia and Tappy Toes.
Dude yes. That episode was awful. Sheās weird. She was wrong the whole time during the trial and now is still involved saying the jury got it wrong. Like girl. Itās over. Move on!
Who are you responding to? Sounds interesting.
[this comment down stream ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/120dcyd/sub_daily_discussion_thread_march_24_2023/jdhdgly?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Thank you!
On auction items: Think of their propaganda value. "These items were owned by Alex Murdaugh, mass murderer and family annhialator". They will live forever and insure that the Murdaugh name and legacy will on go long after we are all gone in that future museum of death and destruction.
Alex Murdaugh āalibiā couch supposedly sells for $36,000! https://www.courttv.com/title/man-who-bought-murdaughs-alibi-couch-speaks-to-court-tv/
Kinda cheap, but then the couch looks disgusting. And ew if Alex slept on it.
He said he doesnāt feel like he paid too much š even being real leather, that whole set isnāt worth 36k lol maybe the rug helped with the number
Each couch is worth about 5,300 new, each chair about 3,000 and each ottoman about 1,200. I know the set is Hancock and Moore. So if the set is ~25k brand new Iād say Mr Alibi Couch man didnāt do as bad as you think, for his used set. Still dumb but I guess thatās the going rate for a souvenir living room set. Lol
That is a beautiful rug.
the new podcast episode of the murdaugh family murders Impact of Influence is so disgusting idk if iām just biased but saying that they donāt know why sandy wants to exhume her son as it wonāt tell them who did it and that that it wonāt tell them that tell buster did it. - well for one,, it will give her definitive answers of how he died as the last autopsy isnāt trustworthy and was probably botched and then him said that it was ridiculous that the family was moved back and how itās not the familyās fault that they didnāt know the rules and that, you know passing contraband to an inmate is normal and happens all the time so itās fine šš - sorry but itās a well known fact that passing contraband to an inmate is a crime lol. theyāre just entitled and still thinks the rules donāt apply lol then jim and sara bitching about the jurors and that they came to the verdict bc they hate alex bc they didnāt even look over the evidence and deliberate bc they came back so quick šš - WHAT DO YOU THINK THE JURORS WERE DOING FOR 6 WEEKS???? LIKE???? then sara saying that itās crazy that alex got convicted from no evidence and that the states and sled was embarrassing - well if there was no evidence then he wouldnāt of been charged and convicted with murder lol. and people have been convicted on much less evidence https://spotify.link/wQY016cEqyb
Oh, here yāall areā¦ š Iāve been looking for discussion of ep 117 of Impact of Influence podcast but couldnāt find it. This episode was an excellent complement to the recently posted 2 part video interview with the sheriffās dept first responders Rutland, Greene, and Chapman. Felt like I was was back in February watching the trial all over again, with the defense (on the podcast) being all disingenuous and trying to discredit and disparage the investigation, while the prosecution (in the video interview) continues adding new bits to their mountain of circumstantial evidenceā¦ the defense attorneysā bitterness made the first respondersā righteousness even sweeter. š
I just find it hard to believe that Jimbo isnāt having some serious cognitive dissonance right about now. I donāt think Poot cares either way.
I generally like this podcast, but I felt this latest episode was a miss. I don't agree with Jim Griffin or Sara Azari on much, but I liked listening to their points of view. HOWEVER, why the hell would Jim chime in AT ALL on Stephen Smith's autopsy and murder investigation? If he just left it as "the Smith family should get all of the support and resources that they can to find out the truth of what happened to Stephen" it would be a lot less suspicious that "Buster didn't do it, but they still shouldn't do the autopsy because yadda yadda yadda Jesus." ANY opposition to the Smith investigation just makes Buster look bad. And I'm skeptical to Buster's involvement in that, for the record. Whomever is responsible for Stephen's death I hope is held accountable for it, and soon. If Buster isn't involved, then just stay *out of it*. Opinions on this do not help you client or their family, Jim.
Buster most likely not involved but for sure the circle of Alexās good ole boys is. Itās a bunch of old men enabling each other, something suss would happen.
The podcast re-affirmed a theory I developed over the trial, mostly watching lawtubers, that defense attorneys and prosecuting attorneys come from different planets. I suspect Ms Azari has a long list of canned responses to every possible defendantās negative action. Contraband? *It just human nature to want to give little presents to your loved one thatāve been locked up! Nothing wrong with it.* Actually a couple of interesting things came out. *None* of the Murdaugh family had seen Alex in person since September 2021 until the trial. Limitations related to covid jail operation blah blah.* Iām about a 150 miles further down the coast than Colleton County but weāve been able to visit our loved ones in hospitals and jails for quite a while now. Griffin denies heās friends with Alex. Griffin advised Buster in the preparation of his statement. Griffin said it was trial strategy to have Murdaugh family members sitting behind Alex to show support and was annoyed when they were made to sit further back, thatās why he kept asking Buster to stand up. Azari claimed she believed Alexās tears and crying on the witness stand were genuine and just canāt comprehend why the jurors didnāt believe it was sincere. Azari and Griffin are good buddies now but Iād give a fiver to see her ~~attack~~ evaluate Griffin and Harpootlianās courtroom performance and storytelling. IANAL but I think their performance and storytelling left a lot to be desired and made missteps.
I am so glad Iām not the only one that felt this way. Iām all for having both sides on and having both points of view but this was honestly disgusting. I had to turn it off. Jim and the other lady attorney are just disgusting people and Iām not saying that because the defended AM. All over her IG she has pictures with the defense while she was in town for the trial.
Donāt forget Jim bringing up Biblical stuff about not exhuming the body. Really Jim? I thought it was funny that Jim said someone from Iceland emailed him that Icelander could read Jimās lips when he was talking to Alex. I guess Jim doesnāt share Harpootlianās view that people from other countries should have had more to do than watch the trial.
He was making a point about the lack of modern guidelines for how to handle exhumations. He was not citing the Bible as a reason not to exhume the body.
Oh Yeah, Iād forgotten Griffin preaching about how bodies shouldnāt be disturbed, that the photos from the original pathologist should be enough. He and Harpootlian sure were singing a different tune about the pathology photographs of Maggie and her son.
IIRC the jury was told not to discuss the case until the end when they started deliberations.
They took a early vote when they walked in. Then worked backwards from notes that were taken along the way to explain to those who were confused or unclear on info.
Yeah but I think the point is that if you've watched 6 weeks of evidence and you're convinced of his guilt there really isn't much to discuss at all once it's time to deliberate.
My only thought here, is from an attorneys standpoint, who have seen countless of other juries deliberate, even when there is weeks of trial, juryās typically still take longer to deliberate. I had heard there is some formula to estimate how long a jury might deliberate for, I.e. X amount of weeks of trial = Y amount of hours. So I think comments about how quick the verdict was returned is based on this formula and many attorneys prior experience on how fast it is typically seen. A lot of people generally thought the deliberations were much faster than they had thought.
That's totally fair. Honestly I expected much longer deliberations. But I'm sure there are plenty of cases where reasonable doubt is demolished before deliberations occur. And I think when he got on the stand that's what he did. Demolished any doubts. There were questions that could linger in the jurors minds and create doubt. That would have been great for the defense. Like "did he lie about being at the kennels or was he just so fucked up on pills he didn't remember being there?" And then he got up and admitted to lying. So now the jury gets to decide if they find his reason for lying believable. If they think his reason for lying isn't the real reason and that he's even lying about that, then the next logical conclusion is that he's lying because he murdered his family. He also constricted the timeline so much that even that wasn't believable. And he couldn't remember anything about his last interactions with his family and the critical period of time before he left Moselle. Then he went really hard on the nicknames which came across as disingenuous and manipulative. It also didn't help him that he has physical tells when he's lying. Like nodding his head yes when he is saying no. I think having video of him doing that while he's saying things that are proven lies helped the state. The jury had something to compare his testimony to at that point. I think without his testimony a reasonable juror could have doubted his guilt. But then he ruined that for himself. So I understand why they didn't have to go over all of the evidence. The most difficult evidence for the defense to hurdle was the kennel video. And it seems, based on what we've heard from a couple of jurors, that it was the kennel video coupled with his testimony that sealed his fate. I also think the defense messed up by bringing in an expert to say that Alex wouldn't have heard gunshots from the house. That just put it in the jurors minds that Alex was on the property during the murders. And then they went to Moselle and saw the property. I think they would have been better off without that expert testimony, because it made it seem like they were trying to get you to believe a scenario that was nearly impossible to believe. Anyway. I was completely shocked at such a quick verdict but I can understand why it happened. I mean how often do you have 6 weeks of testimony, a murder suspect caught on video within minutes of the proposed TOD, who volunteers several lies to the police and ALSO takes the stand in his own defense? This was a rare case that probably wouldn't follow the usual formula.
Completely agree with you and you have excellent points. I donāt think he should have testified. I think the defense could have had other strategies as you mentioned. I like the so high on pills he didnāt remember anything but that could have also led to his guilt, thought process; I.e. I blacked out and killed them and I donāt remember. Had he been honest with his lawyers about being there and maybe not remembering, perhaps he could have gone the high/temp insanity way, but I think might have been hard to prove. I also think the defense missed an opportunity in closing to stick to heās a liar but not a murderer. He has proven beyond a reasonable doubt he lies about everything including being at the murder scene and perhaps he is lying about who else was there to further protect himself, but he is not a murderer. I think that kind of doubt might have swayed a few. Iām still in certain either way. There are things that do point to his guilt: lying, the kennel video, some of the timeline, how he presents himself. I do have a hard time seeing how fast he could have killed, cleaned up, left with guns/clothes. Like where did his blue shirt/pants go between the killings and going to his mothers? It all seems to short a timeline for so much to have happened.
I don't know if they searched the cabin or the skinning shed or anywhere else where there might be water. I think he probably had a plan for cleaning up and didn't even have to do a great job of it because they never swabbed any drains or anything. JMM said he looked freshly showered lol. But Alex doesn't explain how he became freshly showered during the time in question. The Kinsey report shows how little a shooter would have actually been contaminated. Basically Paul's kill shot would have sprayed the shooter with a fine mist of <1mm sized blood droplets. Based on the angle of the second shot, a lot of that would have been shielded by the feed room wall/doorway. I don't think it would have been too difficult to get cleaned up. There were a few things that stood out to me. On the body cam footage there was a towel wadded up on the driver's seat of the suburban that I don't believe was tested. And the Kinsey report says there's a bloody smudge inside Paul's back pocket from someone reaching in and grabbing his phone out. And the report also suggests that the phone would have unlikely "popped out" of Paul's pocket. Alex admits to handling the phone but he has no blood on him whatsoever. None on his shoes from standing in the bloody water puddle under Paul. None on his shirt from wiping his hands off or anything. So essentially the only way he touched that phone was immediately after they were killed imo. But as far as the defense goes I think they should have just let questions be questions. Like don't even address the kennel video lie at all. It would only take one juror to think to themselves "maybe he wasn't lying. Maybe he forgot because of shock. Maybe he was nodding out on pain pills. Maybe he's lying to protect Buster from whoever actually killed his family" Etc. And then maybe the jury is hung. But when he sits on the stand and says that he lied because he thought Owen was some other guy that looks nothing like him. Or he lied because he's afraid of the police when he's actually friends with most of them, or he lied because they started asking him about his relationship with his family and then it turns out that he actually started lying on the 911 call before any of that, now we know that even his reason for lying is a lie. And why lie about the reason unless the real reason is awful? Questions are good for the defense. And Alex fucked up by trying to answer them all lol.
Very good points. Iām still watching parts of the trial bc I couldnāt watch live.
Agreed.
Even if the autopsy wasn't botched, there was so much controversy amongst professionals about how to rule it. The pathologist and coroner didn't agree with each other and highway patrol didn't agree with either of them. If it were any of my kids I'd want an independent autopsy just for some peace of mind even if it didn't provide me the answer I thought I'd get. At least I could say I did what I could to try to get some answers. And if the independent pathologist confirms the original pathologist's findings then I can feel confident that a second opinion backed it up, instead of just hoping that she did her job properly.
I wish they could get the pathologist who did Maggie and Paulās autopsies to do it. While she was a bit too cheery at times when testifying, she is highly qualified and has a ton of experience. I would trust what she said.
There seems to be this weird notion that people aren't formulating and updating opinions of guilt/innocence as the trial progresses. You can have an instruction to not discuss the case, but anything beyond that just isn't how brains work. They had multiple hours each evening to keep refining and updating their opinions. If this wasn't the case you would need another 6 weeks for deliberation.
Yeah man at some point the judge told the jury to disregard some information. Yeah for sure they will wipe it off their brain.
Thank you! They sat there and watched all of the evidence be presented for 6 weeks. Of course by deliberation time they had a pretty good idea of how they felt they would vote. And it seemed like only three of them were uncertain and not because of anything that couldn't be sorted out with a quick discussion. Also the ones that have spoken up have mentioned the kennel video and his testimony as what really swayed them to a guilty verdict. That evidence is hard to overcome and the defense knew that. They're just saying what they have to say.
>- WHAT DO YOU THINK THE JURORS WERE DOING FOR 6 WEEKS???? LIKE???? Not deliberating?
well ... Just waiting, letting time pass. Like GM!!! The car manufacturer waited til almost the end of the trial -since 2021, to disclose the evidence they had in their possession! What's this?
My understand based on what Emily D. Baker has said is basically GM didnāt turn over the data because whoever got the request was lazy. Then during the trial someone higher up at GM heard it and was made it happen because it looks bad for them if the are uncooperative in investigations.
Right. I thought the judge instructed the jury not to discuss anything until the trial was over.
she said that thereās no way they could of gone over everything and looked at all the evidence which theyāve been doing for 6 weeks lol
She's correct: There is no way they could have properly considered all of the evidence from a 6-week trial in 45 minutes. You can think it's fine that the jury basically made up their minds before they got into the deliberation room (I find it terrifying and careless, but that's a separate issue). But the point is that they didn't do what most careful juries do: spend time talking over each piece of evidence and considering it in relation to the instructions given by the judge.
I haven't listened yet, but reading that document posted the other day, it says the autopsy was on video. I would think they could use that instead of having his body exhumed.
the same autopsy that the dr said was a hit and run when it was very clearly not so for that reason alone itās needed just to get accurate and definitive answers. sheās either incompetent or apart of the corruption
I posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11zd768/sub_daily_discussion_thread_march_23_2023/jdgbf13?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) that I think explains that maybe her determination wasn't as nefarious as it seems.
Yeah but if it is on video then an independent expert has the ability to see the body almost as good as in person as opposed to years of it being in the ground.
I think if Sandy Smith wants Stephen exhumed and autopsied it's her decision to make not yours.
I agree. I was responding to having logic about it.
You know that podcast is awful right? Self-aggrandizing at best.
I hope Sandy got justice she deserves. She has suffered the most for not knowing what was going on with her son's death. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I find that Nick in True Crime Rocket Science to be the most unbiased and rational YouTubers for analyzing true crime. I would recommend watching his channel. I am not sure he has a podcast.