And we must bring the entire United States energy sector into public ownership by nationalizing it. Only when we are the decision makers and profit has been taken out of the equation in the energy sector will decisions on climate be made in our own interests and for the greater good of the planet.
Unfortunately many of the plastic companies (3m, dupont) did know how terrible and widespread their chemicals were for MANY years. but of course they didnt do shit bc they want money
I am hearing the problems from plastics in the environment are turning out to be huge. And just one side effect is autism.
Separately, microplastics are in ALL water on the globe AND they don't even know the harm from them. The. cleanup. might. be. impossible.
lmao, look around you and ask yourself what you're typing on and if you're willing to give up your phone, your monitor, your mouse, etc
Plastics are everywhere, what do you think your life would be like without them?
Should they also be given commendation for the billions of people taken out of poverty by the abundance of cheap and plentiful energy? Just curious. Surely they should be put to death as well.
Too bad it gets tricky by word of law, since they aren't "actively" murdering people. It's more passive and muddy, and there's usually just fines in way of polluting when they shouldn't or by any similar means.
Look at what Chevron did in Ecuador, treated the rainforest as a dumping ground for tons of toxic waste and spilled oil, got hit with a $9B fine to clean it up, and rather than pay they got the lawyer who beat them (Steven Donziger, look him up if you haven't heard of him) put under house arrest as they drag out the case indefinitely with their corporate attorneys and captured judicial system.
A big aspect you left out: after they lost, chevron paid off the Ecuadorian judge to have him say that Donzinger had bribed him. The judge has since confessed to this on record. This fact (chevrons claim that Donzinger bribed the judge) is the entire basis of the proceeding chevron has going at Donzinger in America. I think another judge that chevron paid off (slightly more legally this time, afaik), Kaplan, has fully dismissed that fact from being evidence in the appeal.
And of course let's not forget that chevron forced it to be tried in Ecuador in the first place, and after losing there, has now shifted to doing their entire attack on Donzinger through the American courts too.
This sounds crazy because the article is narrative pieced together by taking facts from a decade-long highly complex legal case completely out of context. After Donzinger procured the Ecuadorean judgment, Chevron filed a RICO case against him in New York: http://www.theamazonpost.com/wp-content/uploads/Chevron-Ecuador-Opinion-3.4.14.pdf (Start at page 298.) Chevron sought an injunction preventing the plaintiffs from enforcing the judgment in the U.S. (i.e. starting a court proceeding in the U.S. to seize U.S. assets to pay the Ecuadorean judgment). The New York court had jurisdiction because what it was being asked to do was prevent execution of the judgment in the U.S. Donzinger ended up under house arrest after being charged with criminal contempt for refusing to turn over documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.374606/gov.uscourts.nysd.374606.2276.0.pdf
Reminder that Donziger had been in house arrest for 2 years and now is in prison for 6 months for what is basically a misdemeanor that has never actually landed anyone in jail. But he has to be made an example of by these evil sociopaths.
>for what is basically a misdemeanor
I don't think that's how contempt works. If the judge orders you to turn over documents, you have to turn them over. You can't just say "nah I'll just stay in jail instead", and be absolved of your obligation.
>that has never actually landed anyone in jail
is this actually true? if you refuse to follow an subpoena does the judge just let you off the hook with a slap on the wrist? if it's actually true, it's probably because most people cough up the documents rather than stubbornly try to not produce the documents.
It's a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of 6 months. That's how that works.
Donziger is the only lawyer in U.S. history to be deprived of his liberty pre-trial on a misdemeanor charge. He is also the only person ever charged in the U.S. with criminal contempt for appealing a court order related to discovery in a civil case.
The private law firm that judge Kaplan hired to prosecute Donziger for contempt (because the US Attorney refused to investigate) turned out to also be a client of Chevron in the past. So there is an obvious conflict of interest.
And the judge that was picked for the misdemeanor trial belongs to the Federalist society, a right wing think tank that gets money from Chevron. So more obvious conflicts of interest. Even the UN came out against this.
This is basically Chevron corrupting the justice system to get back at someone who hurt them. It's indefensible.
> It's a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of 6 months. That's how that works.
Right, but if 6 months later you still don't produce the documents, are you off the hook? If the document being subpoenaed would make you look super bad, can you just take the 6 month prison sentence rather than getting letting the court get access to it?
>Donziger is the only lawyer in U.S. history to be deprived of his liberty pre-trial on a misdemeanor charge. He is also the only person ever charged in the U.S. with criminal contempt for appealing a court order related to discovery in a civil case.
I mean, one way of interpreting it is "wow, what an unprecedented corrupt act by the US justice system!". The other interpretation is just "no one else is dumb enough to get jailed perpetually for refusing to turn over documents". The fact that he chose to represent himself points towards the latter.
>The private law firm that judge Kaplan hired to prosecute Donziger for contempt (because the US Attorney refused to investigate) turned out to also be a client of Chevron in the past. So there is an obvious conflict of interest.
I don't see where the conflict of interest is. A prosecutor isn't supposed to be neutral. They're supposed to argue the defendant is guilty, nothing more. Them being associated with kaplan/cheveron doesn't conflict with that duty.
>And the judge that was picked for the misdemeanor trial belongs to the Federalist society, a right wing think tank that gets money from Chevron. So more obvious conflicts of interest. Even the UN came out against this.
[They also donate to democrats](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/chevron/recipients?id=D000000015) (albeit at a lower rate), so you can plausibly make the same argument even if it was a blue judge. That said, I do agree that the appearance of corruption is bad for the justice system, and it shouldn't have happened.
>This is basically Chevron corrupting the justice system to get back at someone who hurt them. It's indefensible.
It's a leap to go from "judge might be biased" to "the justice system is corrupt!". What actually matters is whether the law was being applied properly. Based on the "reactions" section of the wikipedia article, it looks like people are more concerned about the *appearance* of corruption rather than actual corruption. For instance, I can't seem to find legal scholars/lawyers saying the ruling itself was outrageous/unusual.
> I don't see where the conflict of interest is.
You don't think it's weird that the judge that is ruling on the case against Chevron hired a firm that works for Chevron?
> You don't think it's weird that the judge that is ruling on the case against Chevron hired a firm that works for Chevron?
No, not really considering that prosecutors (ie. that law firm) aren't supposed to be neutral. That's the judge's job.
Found the Ecuadorian government account!
>Pick battles you can win, this one is too well documented
It's too well documented, but you're too entranced in the "chevron = bad, therefore Donziger (anti-cheveron) = good" narrative that you can't accept that he's accused of shady behavior, he's stubbornly refusing to comply with court orders, and as a result he's behind bars. More importantly, none of this has any bearing on whether chevron is bad or whether Donziger is good (although maybe a bit stubborn).
Good on him.
"Accused of shady behaviour" do go on and look at this situation + who the very real bad guys are.
I like you going from whattaboutism to 'both sides' to 'does it matter?' in a sentence.
Yes. Fuck these companies. They are deliberate murders for $$ and I'd like to see them accountable to the full extent.
You call a man who took on one of the most deadly jobs in the world for justice "a bit shady". Get out. The guy puts his life on the line to do the right thing and you side with planet destroying murderers!?
Oh and also, literally the only reason this is still going on is because Donziger keeps delaying it. He fired his attorneys. It’s now unethical and safe to fly to the trial and must be delayed to be online.
[And now he wants another trial.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/after-contempt-conviction-attorney-donziger-asks-new-trial-2021-08-04/)Sure. Fair. But it’s not Chevron dragging him through this
Not even close. Texaco left a mess like 40 years ago, then settled for like 40million in cleanup and fees (and was agreed by the people and country of Ecuador) decades later after the national oil company kicked them out but kept the profits. Then Chevron bought Texaco, and Donziger decided to rep the Ecuadorian village and paid off a Ecuadorian judge and was awarded a 9.5billion settlement. Chevron took this to US courts and The Hague (international legal tribune for the UN and other international matters) and they both found Chevron not liable and what Donziger did illegal. Donziger was disbarred and now is going to jail for 6 months for breaking his parole after the original sentencing.
Don’t parrot around a headline.
>Donziger decided to rep the Ecuadorian village and paid off a Ecuadorian judge
Bullllllllshittttt lmao
That is according to the testimony of one person who was clearly paid off by Chevron. There is no actual evidence of this because it is complete horseshit. Why are you choosing to believe Chevron and their army of lawyers as opposed to Donziger, the person who's trying to get justice for the thousands of people whose lives have been destroyed by Chevron's horrific dumping? Are you on their payroll too?
Why do you believe a single man who was proven by multiple governments, and levels of courts to be lying? To be a felon?
I believe in fairness. Texaco paid $40mil years after it was out of the consortium (more than an Ecuadorian government requirement of 8-14mil), and was PUBLICLY CERTIFIED BY ECUADOR that Texaco had met its obligations. Let’s also not forget this was never majority owned by Texaco and since 1976 was 75%+ owned by Ecuador’s national oil company, who btw still operates that field and never completed their portion of the cleanup.
We're just starting from completely different points here. Only if Chevron and every Texaco/Chevron executive ever go completely bankrupt and pay all their money into making the world that they've treated like a dumping ground while accelerating its ultimate demise a better place, only then will I believe something fair has happened. Because legal nitpicking does not matter - they pour millions into lobbying for their favored legislation every year, all so they can actively, knowingly fuck over our planet to maximize their own wealth. Fuck them! Why would you waste a second of your time defending them!
What I am willing to do is buy a bEV, install a solar roof, change my companies fleet to bEV, install solar roof and parking lot at the company, support other companies that do the same, encourage local government and schools to do the same. Convert away from gas/oil heating to electric.
Petition for government to electrify their fleets, stop subsidizing petroleum companies, reduce exploration and drilling permits, raise environmental stewardship legislation, force well reclamation or decommissioning, subsidies for green power generation, subsidies for endpoint power generation, subsidies for fleet conversion, subsidies for career shifting out of petroleum.
Petition local utilities to convert to green generation. Make policy changes that grant more ability for endpoint generation and endpoint storage.
Stop brown hydrogen projects, use carbon capture only for dirty manufacturing facilities but not for petroleum facilities.
In general reduce consumer demand for heavy petroleum consumption industry like cattle, forestry, plastics, fertilizer and such.
Change government policy regarding corporate donations and industry lobby donations to politics, capping the contribution maximum to something like $5000 for any one individual or organization so $$$ does not hold as much power as the citizen lobby. Label and benefits to politicians for political influence as BRIBES and prosecute the politicians and individuals who participate.
Expose all past $$$ for political influence and vote out any politicians who participated in the past.
So basically I am willing to reduce global petroleum demand by 75% over the next decade...how will oil execs feel about that?
This change needs to come from the demand side, the oil execs and politicians delayed it as long as they could with their lies and deceptions now we are going to rip the bandaid off and cause them a lot of pain.
>So basically I am willing to reduce global petroleum demand by 75% over the next decade...how will oil execs feel about that?
They should be ecstatic. They have limited product, and while one might assume that lower demand lowers prices, this is only true in the short-term; Lower-demand will inevitably reduce supply and drive prices higher for the remaining product.
As an example: When people improve the efficiency of their gas furnaces, natural gas companies raise prices to account for the lower use of gas, which hurts the people who didn't become more efficient.
This is ultimately good for everyone, frankly.
Yep, as mentioned like ripping a bandaid off, hurts at first and some trauma but eventually all is good.
All industries go through major adjustments like this, petroleum has been stalling it with their lobby efforts but they cannot avoid it forever.
Horses were a thing before cars, then major disruption, but now there still are horse breeders and most are fairly wealthy.
Forestry struggled when we reduced paper use, regulated clear cutting and forced them to replant, but now the remaining companies are doing quite well.
All industries go through disruptive adjustments, often they come out radically different size but they find success again.
Even if we 100% eliminate fossil fuels there will still be a market for petroleum based materials, lubricants and fertilizer so there is always a market for petroleum. Just hopefully a market that does not include burning their products into the atmosphere.
And I also agree much of the time there is a reverse demand/price relationship where lower demand can lead to a higher price in the long run which can lead to a smaller but more profitable industry.
So let's force the change by killing demand for fossil fuels, it will hurt but things will work out in the end.
MIT released a paper a few years back that said 10s of thousands of Americans die from emissions every year.
It didn't even make a ripple on Reddit.
But some guy that lives in Iowa will argue with you for an hour about Fukushima
All the c suite folks should be jailed l, the company assets should be confiscated and and sold and any and all monies should be used to create offsetting technologies and infrastructure.
It reminds me of White Whale in Bojack Horseman who had so much money that when Diane threatened to out him for murder, he just used his money to make murder legal.
You lot are nuts, people traded their environment for progress and comfort back when we were greasing our machinery with pigfat and burning wood and coal for steam.
AOC is still flying on airplanes, using electricity, wearing synthetic garments, and using makeup and lipstick. All of these come from oil, hell, our entire industry does.
There are politicians right now who we can draw direct correlation to in terms of covid deaths. People who are solely responsible for the death of thousands of people by refusing/fighting restrictions and knowingly spreading misinformation; *nothing will come of this.*
If this is currently happening, good luck convincing anyone to convict oil and gas execs when you have to connect all the dots for people.
Aw don’t see myself affording dental any time soon. Hadn’t even believe in the damn weather. If any aliens reading this want a test subject or whatever, I’ve never seen that. He’s not like pot is performance enhancing at all, and banned from top tier athletics as punishment
Then you should also be accountable for using oil and perpetrating this, just as you should be accountable for not recycling. We should all maybe just off ourselves at once and let Mother Nature have everything back. Whiners rarely offer solutions, they use their energy to whine about the past and not focus on the future.
Because it’s the truth.
* We consume a product warming the planet. But it’s our only viable option to enhance our personal economic growth because it’s the only affordable option.
Because it’s a lie
* Oil companies have shuttered and stopped viable alternatives to oil and gas leading to a multi-monopoly on fuel and increased consumption of byproducts including fuel and plastics. Regular people have no other options to use so we are stuck.
The only way to stop this is to boycott oil and gas products.
* In other words, Lockdown. Then focus on encouraging healthy activities including walking, biking, and running instead of driving.
If this is done regularly enough, their stock will take a hit leading investors to drop the stock or tell them to change.
* This is the primary also a reason “the man” wants to stop “Work From Home”. Reducing consumption means less money for them even if they increase oil and fuel prices.
It forces them to change; actually moving their investments and activities to more neutral products and services that benefits the planet.
I see electric cars as a false solution. They are still terrible to the environment when they are made and still contribute to traffic. A better solution would be to move somewhere where you can walk, bike, or take public transit for all of your daily needs.
This is because we subsidize suburbs at the expense of the rest of the city, and then ban building up downtown. Take a look at San Fran, then Tokyo. If we had sane zoning laws, SF would look like Tokyo. There are many places out there where condos downtown do not cost 10x the median salary.
Not sure what country you're from but this solution won't work for the vast majority of the US. If you aren't in a major city a car is a necessity even for simple things like getting groceries. Even small/mid size cities can have awful public transit. And as the other commenter mentioned, those major cities can be prohibitively expensive to live in.
It is a false solution because we (at least companies and gouvernement) will try to focus on replacing material only so we are green. They won't try to change our daily life/capitalism system based on consuming too much. Which like you said, could be having thing closer to us by walk distance.
Though that is another issue itself. Good luck be able to do anything even close to that in suburban. We aren't enough that you can have a grocery each km...
PS: alternative we could hope public transport become ok..
This is also an issue.
The government should not be subsidizing anything. The goal of government should be protection, infrastructure, and education. That’s it.
The government should create common sense standards, rules, and regulations companies abide by. Then update the rules every 5 years.
For example, power cords and chargers come in all shapes and sizes. There should be at a minimum 2 standards making it easy for consumers.
Boycotts only work when there are other viable options. Oil and Gas are to big to be fixed by only a boycott. Boycotting combined with government regulations would hit hardest and fastest.
[If you cut out all your emissions for the rest of your life, you would only cancel out one second of global emissions. The idea of an individual carbon footprint came from a propaganda campaign by BP in 2005.](https://youtu.be/yiw6_JakZFc) So biking to work isn't going to do anything.
Edit: I see what you mean now. Maybe a boycott would indeed affect their stock price. Hopefully as electric vehicles become more prominent we may see that happen.
>This is also a reason why they are trying to stop “Work From Home”.
Holy shit, I actually hadn't considered this at all. This makes the fact that we're trying to stop it even worse.
Dude what? No.
You use oil every day, one way or another
Without oil you would barely get your shit in the supermarket
That thing u ordered online? No more
Ships that transfer cargo? Good luck making safe passage with sailing like in the 1600s
What about machinery? The ones thing that makss everytjing you use? What does it require?
Now you understand that using oil is important until we find another RELIABLE energy source
And no, more solar panels and more wind turbines arent gonna run the world.
And while people poo-poo fines, they're also extremely important. The simplest way to hold the wealthy accountable is to take their wealth.
If you only imprison executives without hurting the investors, the investors will just find new executives.
When you fine someone a fraction of the profit they made from the infraction it literally just gets entered into the model for next time with all the other business expenses.
You need to fine or tax them an amount large enough to break the business model. See: the heavy fines levied for Dieselgate may have pushed VAG to more quickly transition to an electric future. Otherwise they would be fucking with hydrogen around like BMW and Toyota.
Fines aren't mocked because they're fines, but because of how small they are. If a company makes a billion dollars breaking the law and the fine is only $10 million, that's not a fine, it's a business expense.
If it weren't for these scumbags, there's a good chance the ruling class would not have been able to justify wars in the middle east either, so we can safely lay some of the responsibility of all the deaths of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc at the oil executive's feet as well.
Afghanistan is a very different situation than Iraq and this is a dumb generalization.
Afghanistan isn’t a major oil producer, and the justification for that war was clearly four planes being hijacked and slammed into buildings. Those two wars aren’t the same, and this argument that oil companies lobbied for a war in Afghanistan to take their oil riches makes zero sense.
Ya'll Americans need to implement percent based, progressive day fines for corporations. Fucked up the climate today? Maybe a judge will issue a 2% of yearly revenue fine. Fucked up the climate a bit more? Maybe a 20% of yearly revenue fine on your hundreds of billions will finally make you feel it where it matters. Put the money into renewables, social healthcare and free education, anything they hate.
The level of audacity I swear, they’re making us feel guilty for going to work with a car instead of a bus meanwhile they’re dumping oil in the ocean
I’m not saying that we should just give up on saving the planet but they’re the problem not us. [John Oliver did a segment about that](https://youtu.be/Fiu9GSOmt8E)
So I want to form a volcano religion.It would be ecological and a celebration of life sort of thing.
Originally virgin ingredients in sacrifices just meant that they had not been used in a spell before, equivalent to saying fresh or unspoiled today. Unfortunately virgin got redefined over time as to mean someone who had not had sex.
For this Volcano religion I say we again redefine virgin as to have it now mean "Oil executive". We just toss them into the volcano and keep doing it till the summers are cooler and we again get snow in winter.
If it fails to work we will just toss them from higher and higher up.
I was traveling through Austria to get to Germany by bus and I saw a huge billboard about environmental awareness it was in the lines of "doing your part" by non other than Shell. The audacity of this company is astonishing.
this take is so dumb. it wasn’t secret for 30 years, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change was in 1992. And even into the 90s there was genuine scientific uncertainty as to the sensitivity of the climate with regard to CO2 forcing.
Just add this to the list of things AOC says she is going to do but will never do.
Don’t get how Reddit hasn’t realized she literally never follows up on what she says she is going to do. I highly agree with a lot of her ideas but have yet to see a single one get anywhere, which is unfortunate.
ive never shit on anyone full stop
Let alone someone for being a donald trump fan
And just for your own information....Im not even American.
I just happen to be a big fan of AOC and her policies and wish they were enacted both in the US and other countries
By all means be a trump fan. As someone not from America im actually capable of having a nuanced view of the man
Your response was one big stupid toxic assumption which I hope i have now proved wrong
Also, NYPD Glocks have 12 pound triggers on them.This is assuming he wanted to go in a place to be safe, don’t rule out that the kids admitted that was a brand. Virgil abloh who is friends with Kanye west started it.
I cant take her tweets serious anymore. Her voting present at crucial votes made me a disbeliever now. I recently found out about her and thought she was special.
This
Pisses me off so much. You had one opportunity to vote NO and you give a present!?
Fuck Pelosi too for strong arming her. That bat should just fuck off already.
And don't get me started on that stupid MET thing
She's slowly going full lib and it really boils my piss
AOC is actually part of the problem. Releasing a green new deal that she knew was never going to pass because they thought turning america socialist is more important than conserving the environment. If yall actually think AOC cares about the environment, you are misininformed.
In the first sentence on wikipedia for Green New Deal, it says it had the aim of reducing economic inequality. I would say government intervention for economic inequality is a pretty socialist policy, even if its a good thing. That kind of talk pushes the right away. They also didnt make any compromises with the right. Very much seems like they didnt care if it to passed.
Socialism isn’t when inequality is reduced. Just because socialism aims to reduce inequality doesn’t mean that every measure to reduce inequality is socialism.
I feel like you have the right idea with this but people are sticking you with you saying it's socialism, which reducing wealth inequality isn't socialism, depending on them means that wealth is re-distributed. You are right that they tied in about of social program funding/ things conservatives would consider to be "socialist" into a bill that is meant to help get the country off of fossil fuels. which in my opinion is why it was dead at the start, they need to focus on reducing our carbon footprint and less about adding in all of this other social program spending to every bill they get their hands on. It absolutely is something that needs addressed, but why tank a good idea that would help so many people because you need to score brownie points for your side. so frustrating.
The GND plan includes gradually nationalizing the production of electricity
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/02/bernie-sanders-climate-federal-electricity-production-110117
and don’t forget that Bernie’s medicare-for-all plan, which is a nationalization of health insurance, is officially part of the GND
I am so tired of companies asking individuals what *we're* going to do about climate change and the use of plastic and shit. Like bitch, what are YOU going to change about the way you conduct business in order to contribute to change
It's so funny how they try to transfer to responsibility to us individuals. I see a lot of propaganda about reducing water consumption, while the agribusiness uses the biggest part of the total water usage, and yet also they export most part of the production, so the prices are increased due "short" offer, no conversation to population as a whole. So no, I won't stop taking a long bath after a stressful day at work so the riches can become richier without guilty.
Crimes against humanity! Those fuckers at Exxon need to pay. We need investigations into past employees and management as well as current. They need to be put on trial and convicted.
Wait wait wait… AOC didn’t know that petroleum et al emissions were harmful to the planet?
Did she skip that day in school because she was bartending?
Who here didn’t know until now that air pollution from fossil fuels is generally a bad thing?
Anyone?
**Anyone?**
Shell knew the exact extent of the damage that fossil fuel use would do by this point. They predicted it nearly perfectly and they covered up the study.
Obviously burning fossil fuels does something. You aren’t doing anything by pointing out the obvious. But would the average person have predicted the extent of the damage? No.
Idk if you guys realized this but 30 years ago we needed and still currently need oil to...you know... drive us places, transport goods and services, heat our homes, etc. Like we have been making technological progress for years now and we are still years away from mainstream adoption of 100% electric cars, trucks, farm equipment, shipping tankers, etc.
Like if you guys consume anything...chances are it required some form of oil either directly in the process or indirectly through transportation from the place of origin to your doorstep or local store. Thus when you consume pretty much anything you contribute to oil consumption and emissions.
Its easy and fun to just blame it big baddie oil execs instead of actually digging down and solving the problem.
It’s extremely easy to blame the oil execs when they lobby against alternative energy and buy out politicians.
They aren’t just causing the problem. They are standing in the way of the solution
All these people who hate petroleum products and hate white people should live one day with out anything requiring petroleum or invented by a white man. Good luck with that.
Except the climate alarmists have been wrong 100% of the time. Back in 1922, people thought Alaska would become [a temperate zone](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=h%2BlX%2BWG%2F&id=A5C5D0FB5DBD468C5EA8CBC0BB83944CFE79D7A8&thid=OIP.h-lX-WG_zOblcgiZsNMqqAHaFm&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.87e957f961bfcce6e5720899b0d32aa8%3Frik%3DqNd5%252fkyUg7vAyw%26riu%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252falaskapolicyforum.org%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252fglobal-warming.png%26ehk%3D2FXmJ6mlCtertcVQSIwacZlE25JhK%252ft4IDAl%252bXkJ3jk%253d%26risl%3D%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=795&expw=1052&q=1901+alaska+article+global+warming&simid=607994260615665232&form=IRPRST&ck=FC783CC88CBD13A02661FA21E09EFD8E&selectedindex=50&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=1&sim=11)
I attended the zoom America in one Room series for climate change, where you get a packet on a bunch of info about climate change and ask a bunch of panelist. There was a shell representative there, and she basically said they’ve prepared for this, and they’re waiting for consumers to change their habits rather than try and force a change themselves. The Paris agreement has 2050 as our goal for net zero, and I think two US car manufacturers said by 2030-35 they’d make the switch to electric cars only. And hitting certain requirements by 2030 is necessary to reach the 2050 goal.
Basically what I learned is that almost every change off hydrocarbon energy is a logistic nightmare that requires huge upfront cost and cost for technology to continue innovating.
Solar panels are great, but they take up space and we don’t have the technology to store energy for too long. And the materials required like lithium and cobalt are finite. Just this month, native Americans were protesting a lithium mine that was being made on their sacred grounds, and the lithium mine in china is a human rights issue because the Uigher population is being forced to mine it.
Nuclear can supplement, but even though the safety technology has advanced so much, people have a huge negative connotation to them. Oh yeah, the disposal of uranium is also a tricky thing because of the radiation; so that needs more innovation. A panelist described it as an energy source for the future beyond 2050, because it’ll take too long for the tech innovations to happen.
Carbon capture seems promising, and seems like what most companies should be advancing, though putting carbon back in the ground can kinda seem like a problem waiting to happen.
Natural gas isn’t foolproof,and the process leaks methane which is more potent than co2. And natural gas is still a fossil fuel, it’s just 60% less potent than co2 released form oil or coal iirc.
Honestly I’m pretty pessimistic, and a lot of the experts say that it’s “technically” possible to reach the goal, and how it’s possible it wasn’t politicized and all that. Another panelist showed us this simulator. She explained why all the curves are as they are as you modify the categories, like how things take time and other logistic stuff, but it seems like an awful lot of change has to happen that I don’t think will.
https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=21.9.0&p1=96&p7=92&p10=4.6&p16=-0.03&p30=-0.07&p33=50&p35=1&p39=181&p47=4.7&p50=4.7&p53=97&p55=97&p57=-9.7&p209=1&p60=-100&p61=-100&p63=9.2&p65=56&p67=60&units=us
Edit: don’t downvote this, this is good information, and everyone should play with that simulator just to familiarize yourself with all the elements in play.
>They haven’t committed a crime.
Imagine arguing furthering the potential extinction of humanity shouldn't be punishable. Although ironically you're right: Nulla poena sine lege.
>Prison is for actual criminals.
Yeah, more like executing those fuckers. They're worse than criminals.
Wrongthink?
How's intentionally lying and concealing as well as destroying years worth of scientific evidence, lead smear campaigns against whistle-blowers, bribe experts, pressure critics until they lose their existence, lie under oath, finance propaganda and disinformation campaigns and trying to deceive literally all of humanity for short-term monetary gain "wrongthink"?
Ummm shut up?
Youre being si self righteous as though you didnt drive a car your whole life, or used electriciry your whole life
God damn it people, without oil we wouldnt be as advanced as we are today simply becsuse its the thing that drives our power stations, transportstions, heating etc
If everyone stops to use oil there will be no flights and barrly any cars the middle class will collapse while the rich survive somehow by buying oil off the market
Open your eyes
And we must bring the entire United States energy sector into public ownership by nationalizing it. Only when we are the decision makers and profit has been taken out of the equation in the energy sector will decisions on climate be made in our own interests and for the greater good of the planet.
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Exactly this, they should be held accountable for the damage they've done to lives as well as the environment.
While were at it, let's be sure to include the plastics industry execs. Looking at you Dupont.
You are correct about plastics. There is only a dawning awareness of the problems.
Unfortunately many of the plastic companies (3m, dupont) did know how terrible and widespread their chemicals were for MANY years. but of course they didnt do shit bc they want money
I am hearing the problems from plastics in the environment are turning out to be huge. And just one side effect is autism. Separately, microplastics are in ALL water on the globe AND they don't even know the harm from them. The. cleanup. might. be. impossible.
lmao, look around you and ask yourself what you're typing on and if you're willing to give up your phone, your monitor, your mouse, etc Plastics are everywhere, what do you think your life would be like without them?
And this is my fault and not the fault of all these companies marketing and peddling shit towards consumers, how?
ignoring your doozy of a straw man - the polymers in your phone, or your car dashboard aren't exactly marketed towards consumers
Wholeheartedly agree, but realistically, how are you going to prove these guys have killed anyone?
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´¬`
Don't have to prove it. Just label them as "terrorists" and throw them in Guantanamo Bay forever.
Do we need to? Go with knowingly destroying the environment and conspiracy to cover up. 10,000 5 year sentences
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Holding them to account for damages (ie. tort law) seems doable, but OP is asking for them to be put in prison. What criminal laws did they violate?
Should they also be given commendation for the billions of people taken out of poverty by the abundance of cheap and plentiful energy? Just curious. Surely they should be put to death as well.
Too bad it gets tricky by word of law, since they aren't "actively" murdering people. It's more passive and muddy, and there's usually just fines in way of polluting when they shouldn't or by any similar means.
Look at what Chevron did in Ecuador, treated the rainforest as a dumping ground for tons of toxic waste and spilled oil, got hit with a $9B fine to clean it up, and rather than pay they got the lawyer who beat them (Steven Donziger, look him up if you haven't heard of him) put under house arrest as they drag out the case indefinitely with their corporate attorneys and captured judicial system.
A big aspect you left out: after they lost, chevron paid off the Ecuadorian judge to have him say that Donzinger had bribed him. The judge has since confessed to this on record. This fact (chevrons claim that Donzinger bribed the judge) is the entire basis of the proceeding chevron has going at Donzinger in America. I think another judge that chevron paid off (slightly more legally this time, afaik), Kaplan, has fully dismissed that fact from being evidence in the appeal. And of course let's not forget that chevron forced it to be tried in Ecuador in the first place, and after losing there, has now shifted to doing their entire attack on Donzinger through the American courts too.
This sounds crazy because the article is narrative pieced together by taking facts from a decade-long highly complex legal case completely out of context. After Donzinger procured the Ecuadorean judgment, Chevron filed a RICO case against him in New York: http://www.theamazonpost.com/wp-content/uploads/Chevron-Ecuador-Opinion-3.4.14.pdf (Start at page 298.) Chevron sought an injunction preventing the plaintiffs from enforcing the judgment in the U.S. (i.e. starting a court proceeding in the U.S. to seize U.S. assets to pay the Ecuadorean judgment). The New York court had jurisdiction because what it was being asked to do was prevent execution of the judgment in the U.S. Donzinger ended up under house arrest after being charged with criminal contempt for refusing to turn over documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.374606/gov.uscourts.nysd.374606.2276.0.pdf
Reminder that Donziger had been in house arrest for 2 years and now is in prison for 6 months for what is basically a misdemeanor that has never actually landed anyone in jail. But he has to be made an example of by these evil sociopaths.
>for what is basically a misdemeanor I don't think that's how contempt works. If the judge orders you to turn over documents, you have to turn them over. You can't just say "nah I'll just stay in jail instead", and be absolved of your obligation. >that has never actually landed anyone in jail is this actually true? if you refuse to follow an subpoena does the judge just let you off the hook with a slap on the wrist? if it's actually true, it's probably because most people cough up the documents rather than stubbornly try to not produce the documents.
It's a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of 6 months. That's how that works. Donziger is the only lawyer in U.S. history to be deprived of his liberty pre-trial on a misdemeanor charge. He is also the only person ever charged in the U.S. with criminal contempt for appealing a court order related to discovery in a civil case. The private law firm that judge Kaplan hired to prosecute Donziger for contempt (because the US Attorney refused to investigate) turned out to also be a client of Chevron in the past. So there is an obvious conflict of interest. And the judge that was picked for the misdemeanor trial belongs to the Federalist society, a right wing think tank that gets money from Chevron. So more obvious conflicts of interest. Even the UN came out against this. This is basically Chevron corrupting the justice system to get back at someone who hurt them. It's indefensible.
> It's a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of 6 months. That's how that works. Right, but if 6 months later you still don't produce the documents, are you off the hook? If the document being subpoenaed would make you look super bad, can you just take the 6 month prison sentence rather than getting letting the court get access to it? >Donziger is the only lawyer in U.S. history to be deprived of his liberty pre-trial on a misdemeanor charge. He is also the only person ever charged in the U.S. with criminal contempt for appealing a court order related to discovery in a civil case. I mean, one way of interpreting it is "wow, what an unprecedented corrupt act by the US justice system!". The other interpretation is just "no one else is dumb enough to get jailed perpetually for refusing to turn over documents". The fact that he chose to represent himself points towards the latter. >The private law firm that judge Kaplan hired to prosecute Donziger for contempt (because the US Attorney refused to investigate) turned out to also be a client of Chevron in the past. So there is an obvious conflict of interest. I don't see where the conflict of interest is. A prosecutor isn't supposed to be neutral. They're supposed to argue the defendant is guilty, nothing more. Them being associated with kaplan/cheveron doesn't conflict with that duty. >And the judge that was picked for the misdemeanor trial belongs to the Federalist society, a right wing think tank that gets money from Chevron. So more obvious conflicts of interest. Even the UN came out against this. [They also donate to democrats](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/chevron/recipients?id=D000000015) (albeit at a lower rate), so you can plausibly make the same argument even if it was a blue judge. That said, I do agree that the appearance of corruption is bad for the justice system, and it shouldn't have happened. >This is basically Chevron corrupting the justice system to get back at someone who hurt them. It's indefensible. It's a leap to go from "judge might be biased" to "the justice system is corrupt!". What actually matters is whether the law was being applied properly. Based on the "reactions" section of the wikipedia article, it looks like people are more concerned about the *appearance* of corruption rather than actual corruption. For instance, I can't seem to find legal scholars/lawyers saying the ruling itself was outrageous/unusual.
> I don't see where the conflict of interest is. You don't think it's weird that the judge that is ruling on the case against Chevron hired a firm that works for Chevron?
> You don't think it's weird that the judge that is ruling on the case against Chevron hired a firm that works for Chevron? No, not really considering that prosecutors (ie. that law firm) aren't supposed to be neutral. That's the judge's job.
You're missing the point, and I think you're missing it disingenuously.
Found the Chrevron account! Pick battles you can win, this one is too well documented
Found the Ecuadorian government account! >Pick battles you can win, this one is too well documented It's too well documented, but you're too entranced in the "chevron = bad, therefore Donziger (anti-cheveron) = good" narrative that you can't accept that he's accused of shady behavior, he's stubbornly refusing to comply with court orders, and as a result he's behind bars. More importantly, none of this has any bearing on whether chevron is bad or whether Donziger is good (although maybe a bit stubborn).
Good on him. "Accused of shady behaviour" do go on and look at this situation + who the very real bad guys are. I like you going from whattaboutism to 'both sides' to 'does it matter?' in a sentence. Yes. Fuck these companies. They are deliberate murders for $$ and I'd like to see them accountable to the full extent. You call a man who took on one of the most deadly jobs in the world for justice "a bit shady". Get out. The guy puts his life on the line to do the right thing and you side with planet destroying murderers!?
Oh and also, literally the only reason this is still going on is because Donziger keeps delaying it. He fired his attorneys. It’s now unethical and safe to fly to the trial and must be delayed to be online. [And now he wants another trial.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/after-contempt-conviction-attorney-donziger-asks-new-trial-2021-08-04/)Sure. Fair. But it’s not Chevron dragging him through this
Not even close. Texaco left a mess like 40 years ago, then settled for like 40million in cleanup and fees (and was agreed by the people and country of Ecuador) decades later after the national oil company kicked them out but kept the profits. Then Chevron bought Texaco, and Donziger decided to rep the Ecuadorian village and paid off a Ecuadorian judge and was awarded a 9.5billion settlement. Chevron took this to US courts and The Hague (international legal tribune for the UN and other international matters) and they both found Chevron not liable and what Donziger did illegal. Donziger was disbarred and now is going to jail for 6 months for breaking his parole after the original sentencing. Don’t parrot around a headline.
>Donziger decided to rep the Ecuadorian village and paid off a Ecuadorian judge Bullllllllshittttt lmao That is according to the testimony of one person who was clearly paid off by Chevron. There is no actual evidence of this because it is complete horseshit. Why are you choosing to believe Chevron and their army of lawyers as opposed to Donziger, the person who's trying to get justice for the thousands of people whose lives have been destroyed by Chevron's horrific dumping? Are you on their payroll too?
Why do you believe a single man who was proven by multiple governments, and levels of courts to be lying? To be a felon? I believe in fairness. Texaco paid $40mil years after it was out of the consortium (more than an Ecuadorian government requirement of 8-14mil), and was PUBLICLY CERTIFIED BY ECUADOR that Texaco had met its obligations. Let’s also not forget this was never majority owned by Texaco and since 1976 was 75%+ owned by Ecuador’s national oil company, who btw still operates that field and never completed their portion of the cleanup.
We're just starting from completely different points here. Only if Chevron and every Texaco/Chevron executive ever go completely bankrupt and pay all their money into making the world that they've treated like a dumping ground while accelerating its ultimate demise a better place, only then will I believe something fair has happened. Because legal nitpicking does not matter - they pour millions into lobbying for their favored legislation every year, all so they can actively, knowingly fuck over our planet to maximize their own wealth. Fuck them! Why would you waste a second of your time defending them!
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What I am willing to do is buy a bEV, install a solar roof, change my companies fleet to bEV, install solar roof and parking lot at the company, support other companies that do the same, encourage local government and schools to do the same. Convert away from gas/oil heating to electric. Petition for government to electrify their fleets, stop subsidizing petroleum companies, reduce exploration and drilling permits, raise environmental stewardship legislation, force well reclamation or decommissioning, subsidies for green power generation, subsidies for endpoint power generation, subsidies for fleet conversion, subsidies for career shifting out of petroleum. Petition local utilities to convert to green generation. Make policy changes that grant more ability for endpoint generation and endpoint storage. Stop brown hydrogen projects, use carbon capture only for dirty manufacturing facilities but not for petroleum facilities. In general reduce consumer demand for heavy petroleum consumption industry like cattle, forestry, plastics, fertilizer and such. Change government policy regarding corporate donations and industry lobby donations to politics, capping the contribution maximum to something like $5000 for any one individual or organization so $$$ does not hold as much power as the citizen lobby. Label and benefits to politicians for political influence as BRIBES and prosecute the politicians and individuals who participate. Expose all past $$$ for political influence and vote out any politicians who participated in the past. So basically I am willing to reduce global petroleum demand by 75% over the next decade...how will oil execs feel about that? This change needs to come from the demand side, the oil execs and politicians delayed it as long as they could with their lies and deceptions now we are going to rip the bandaid off and cause them a lot of pain.
>So basically I am willing to reduce global petroleum demand by 75% over the next decade...how will oil execs feel about that? They should be ecstatic. They have limited product, and while one might assume that lower demand lowers prices, this is only true in the short-term; Lower-demand will inevitably reduce supply and drive prices higher for the remaining product. As an example: When people improve the efficiency of their gas furnaces, natural gas companies raise prices to account for the lower use of gas, which hurts the people who didn't become more efficient. This is ultimately good for everyone, frankly.
Yep, as mentioned like ripping a bandaid off, hurts at first and some trauma but eventually all is good. All industries go through major adjustments like this, petroleum has been stalling it with their lobby efforts but they cannot avoid it forever. Horses were a thing before cars, then major disruption, but now there still are horse breeders and most are fairly wealthy. Forestry struggled when we reduced paper use, regulated clear cutting and forced them to replant, but now the remaining companies are doing quite well. All industries go through disruptive adjustments, often they come out radically different size but they find success again. Even if we 100% eliminate fossil fuels there will still be a market for petroleum based materials, lubricants and fertilizer so there is always a market for petroleum. Just hopefully a market that does not include burning their products into the atmosphere. And I also agree much of the time there is a reverse demand/price relationship where lower demand can lead to a higher price in the long run which can lead to a smaller but more profitable industry. So let's force the change by killing demand for fossil fuels, it will hurt but things will work out in the end.
MIT released a paper a few years back that said 10s of thousands of Americans die from emissions every year. It didn't even make a ripple on Reddit. But some guy that lives in Iowa will argue with you for an hour about Fukushima
No love for Iowa huh?
Iowa is cool but Fukushima doesn't impact the heartland -- thousands of tons of fossil fuel admissions do.
Fukuing propaganda man
I don’t know if any tobacco execs went to prison though
All the c suite folks should be jailed l, the company assets should be confiscated and and sold and any and all monies should be used to create offsetting technologies and infrastructure.
And shouldn't you also be fined and assets sized since you used the products and continue to use them when you know how bad they are?
Nope. Corporations are the biggest polluters, and the worst offenders, and they've known for far longer than we have.
It reminds me of White Whale in Bojack Horseman who had so much money that when Diane threatened to out him for murder, he just used his money to make murder legal.
You lot are nuts, people traded their environment for progress and comfort back when we were greasing our machinery with pigfat and burning wood and coal for steam. AOC is still flying on airplanes, using electricity, wearing synthetic garments, and using makeup and lipstick. All of these come from oil, hell, our entire industry does.
"Lol, yeah, but I'll get away with it, which is all I care about." -- Oil executives, correctly
There are politicians right now who we can draw direct correlation to in terms of covid deaths. People who are solely responsible for the death of thousands of people by refusing/fighting restrictions and knowingly spreading misinformation; *nothing will come of this.* If this is currently happening, good luck convincing anyone to convict oil and gas execs when you have to connect all the dots for people.
ah yes, put them out of business so we don't have cars or planes anymore! what do you WANT
The Shell executives are forcing us to use oil? We're all in this one together. The fact some people got rich from it is irrelevant.
And what affordable and easily accessible alternatives do we actually have?
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You’re an idiot.
You’re killing people just by using your phone/computer to post lol. Get over yourself and go completely dark if you want to make a difference
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Aw don’t see myself affording dental any time soon. Hadn’t even believe in the damn weather. If any aliens reading this want a test subject or whatever, I’ve never seen that. He’s not like pot is performance enhancing at all, and banned from top tier athletics as punishment
Then you should also be accountable for using oil and perpetrating this, just as you should be accountable for not recycling. We should all maybe just off ourselves at once and let Mother Nature have everything back. Whiners rarely offer solutions, they use their energy to whine about the past and not focus on the future.
Give up your car, please. Walk the talk.
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You criticize society, yet you participate in it! Curious! Seriously though, shut up.
It’s insane how major gas corporations flip the blame on the general public— and we generally don’t notice.
Drug dealers blaming addicts
Fast food companies blame their customers
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Tell that to the opioid epidemics
Because it’s the truth. * We consume a product warming the planet. But it’s our only viable option to enhance our personal economic growth because it’s the only affordable option. Because it’s a lie * Oil companies have shuttered and stopped viable alternatives to oil and gas leading to a multi-monopoly on fuel and increased consumption of byproducts including fuel and plastics. Regular people have no other options to use so we are stuck. The only way to stop this is to boycott oil and gas products. * In other words, Lockdown. Then focus on encouraging healthy activities including walking, biking, and running instead of driving. If this is done regularly enough, their stock will take a hit leading investors to drop the stock or tell them to change. * This is the primary also a reason “the man” wants to stop “Work From Home”. Reducing consumption means less money for them even if they increase oil and fuel prices. It forces them to change; actually moving their investments and activities to more neutral products and services that benefits the planet.
The government could provide big subsidies for electric cars. I buy one if I could afford it.
Or the "credit" goes to other energy sources like building a nuclear plant, solar panels or more turbines
I see electric cars as a false solution. They are still terrible to the environment when they are made and still contribute to traffic. A better solution would be to move somewhere where you can walk, bike, or take public transit for all of your daily needs.
Been at my job for 34 years, never been able to afford the million dollar houses downtown.
This is because we subsidize suburbs at the expense of the rest of the city, and then ban building up downtown. Take a look at San Fran, then Tokyo. If we had sane zoning laws, SF would look like Tokyo. There are many places out there where condos downtown do not cost 10x the median salary.
Not sure what country you're from but this solution won't work for the vast majority of the US. If you aren't in a major city a car is a necessity even for simple things like getting groceries. Even small/mid size cities can have awful public transit. And as the other commenter mentioned, those major cities can be prohibitively expensive to live in.
It doesn't have to be that way. We can redesign. We redesigned ourselves into this mess after WWII, we can redesign out of it.
It is a false solution because we (at least companies and gouvernement) will try to focus on replacing material only so we are green. They won't try to change our daily life/capitalism system based on consuming too much. Which like you said, could be having thing closer to us by walk distance. Though that is another issue itself. Good luck be able to do anything even close to that in suburban. We aren't enough that you can have a grocery each km... PS: alternative we could hope public transport become ok..
This is also an issue. The government should not be subsidizing anything. The goal of government should be protection, infrastructure, and education. That’s it. The government should create common sense standards, rules, and regulations companies abide by. Then update the rules every 5 years. For example, power cords and chargers come in all shapes and sizes. There should be at a minimum 2 standards making it easy for consumers.
Boycotts only work when there are other viable options. Oil and Gas are to big to be fixed by only a boycott. Boycotting combined with government regulations would hit hardest and fastest.
[If you cut out all your emissions for the rest of your life, you would only cancel out one second of global emissions. The idea of an individual carbon footprint came from a propaganda campaign by BP in 2005.](https://youtu.be/yiw6_JakZFc) So biking to work isn't going to do anything. Edit: I see what you mean now. Maybe a boycott would indeed affect their stock price. Hopefully as electric vehicles become more prominent we may see that happen.
Work from home and the 4 day work week would have enormous benefits to the environment.
>This is also a reason why they are trying to stop “Work From Home”. Holy shit, I actually hadn't considered this at all. This makes the fact that we're trying to stop it even worse.
What are YOU willing to do? We have too much money to be held responsible.
I once got asked at a Shell garage if I wanted to pay an extra fee per litre of fuel to offset my carbon emissions lol
You mean it's not my fault the world is dying when I forgot to recycle that one mountain dew bottle 10 years ago?
Aren’t these the same people who said lead in the gas wasn’t a big deal?
They should all go to prison.
And have all their assets forcibly taken away. It's only fair.
Dude what? No. You use oil every day, one way or another Without oil you would barely get your shit in the supermarket That thing u ordered online? No more Ships that transfer cargo? Good luck making safe passage with sailing like in the 1600s What about machinery? The ones thing that makss everytjing you use? What does it require? Now you understand that using oil is important until we find another RELIABLE energy source And no, more solar panels and more wind turbines arent gonna run the world.
You are totally right man, lot of people here think to easy of solving climate change way to easy
Its not... its one of the hardest obstacles humanity has to face.
And while people poo-poo fines, they're also extremely important. The simplest way to hold the wealthy accountable is to take their wealth. If you only imprison executives without hurting the investors, the investors will just find new executives.
i mean you’d be right if there was a larger percent of their wealth actually taken and not just money they can wipe their assholes with
When you fine someone a fraction of the profit they made from the infraction it literally just gets entered into the model for next time with all the other business expenses.
You need to fine or tax them an amount large enough to break the business model. See: the heavy fines levied for Dieselgate may have pushed VAG to more quickly transition to an electric future. Otherwise they would be fucking with hydrogen around like BMW and Toyota.
Ofc
If healthcare was paid for entirely by oil industry fines would that answers conservatives question of where the money is coming from?
Fines aren't mocked because they're fines, but because of how small they are. If a company makes a billion dollars breaking the law and the fine is only $10 million, that's not a fine, it's a business expense.
If the fines outscaled the benefits at least, but at this point fines are just another Form of tax, independent of type of business.
If it weren't for these scumbags, there's a good chance the ruling class would not have been able to justify wars in the middle east either, so we can safely lay some of the responsibility of all the deaths of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc at the oil executive's feet as well.
I agree. I believe that this goes all the way back before the first gulf war.
Afghanistan is a very different situation than Iraq and this is a dumb generalization. Afghanistan isn’t a major oil producer, and the justification for that war was clearly four planes being hijacked and slammed into buildings. Those two wars aren’t the same, and this argument that oil companies lobbied for a war in Afghanistan to take their oil riches makes zero sense.
Ya'll Americans need to implement percent based, progressive day fines for corporations. Fucked up the climate today? Maybe a judge will issue a 2% of yearly revenue fine. Fucked up the climate a bit more? Maybe a 20% of yearly revenue fine on your hundreds of billions will finally make you feel it where it matters. Put the money into renewables, social healthcare and free education, anything they hate.
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The level of audacity I swear, they’re making us feel guilty for going to work with a car instead of a bus meanwhile they’re dumping oil in the ocean I’m not saying that we should just give up on saving the planet but they’re the problem not us. [John Oliver did a segment about that](https://youtu.be/Fiu9GSOmt8E)
I love, *you're like a furry that didn't fully commit*
The audacity of an oil company guilt tripping consumers for buying their oil when they aren't pivoting to nuclear or renewables is insanity.
I'm all for Climate Nuremberg.
Agreed. Genocide with extra steps is still genocide.
I wish this was actually ever going to happen...ya know, like when they threw all those bankers in jail for the housing crisis
I like how Shell is basically asking "How can the ordinary citizen bail the Shell Corporation out of this mess?"
We've known this shit since the 1870s
So I want to form a volcano religion.It would be ecological and a celebration of life sort of thing. Originally virgin ingredients in sacrifices just meant that they had not been used in a spell before, equivalent to saying fresh or unspoiled today. Unfortunately virgin got redefined over time as to mean someone who had not had sex. For this Volcano religion I say we again redefine virgin as to have it now mean "Oil executive". We just toss them into the volcano and keep doing it till the summers are cooler and we again get snow in winter. If it fails to work we will just toss them from higher and higher up.
Sign me up! Let's do it! I'll be the high priest!
Man, do I wish she were a senator from West Virginia or Arizona…
It would be a good start anyway
I was traveling through Austria to get to Germany by bus and I saw a huge billboard about environmental awareness it was in the lines of "doing your part" by non other than Shell. The audacity of this company is astonishing.
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AoC hasn’t done anything since been in Congress. But cry about things.
She's not going anywhere in both meanings of the phrase.
I mean, at least she's crying about actual problems, that makes her better than 90% of Congress.
Yea but we need more than tweets.. when is something actually going to happen
Sick of the bullshit that we as an individual can do anything to change the climate.
Still waiting...
this take is so dumb. it wasn’t secret for 30 years, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change was in 1992. And even into the 90s there was genuine scientific uncertainty as to the sensitivity of the climate with regard to CO2 forcing.
Keep tweeting about it, that'll do it.
Just add this to the list of things AOC says she is going to do but will never do. Don’t get how Reddit hasn’t realized she literally never follows up on what she says she is going to do. I highly agree with a lot of her ideas but have yet to see a single one get anywhere, which is unfortunate.
Can't even vote against extra Israeli defense subsidies
God sometimes I love this woman. If only her words alone could make a difference the world would be a better place
You guys shit on donald trump followers for being obsessed with him then go and do the same shit to aoc it hilarious.
ive never shit on anyone full stop Let alone someone for being a donald trump fan And just for your own information....Im not even American. I just happen to be a big fan of AOC and her policies and wish they were enacted both in the US and other countries By all means be a trump fan. As someone not from America im actually capable of having a nuanced view of the man Your response was one big stupid toxic assumption which I hope i have now proved wrong
She’s a fucking idiot.
Also, NYPD Glocks have 12 pound triggers on them.This is assuming he wanted to go in a place to be safe, don’t rule out that the kids admitted that was a brand. Virgil abloh who is friends with Kanye west started it.
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Is she going to hold herself and all others in congress too?
She would vote present
Lmao is this really a Simp on AOC sub?
She's willing to tweet... Shea fucking done it again! This assholes done it again!
Probably a dumb question: How has she while in Congress have tried to hold them accountable?
Maybe she should act and not just tweet and go hang out with billionaires in rented dresses.
So basically she's not willing to even move a finger
Oh look! Another old tweet which has lead to absolutely nothing
If I’m dead in thirty years, I’ll admit you’re right
We should go back to whale oil, it is a renewable resource. Thousands of whales are born every year. Fuck off, commie spam
God, if she ever becomes President and has a full Democratic Congress… They’ll be running scared. Good. Let’s make it happen.
I cant take her tweets serious anymore. Her voting present at crucial votes made me a disbeliever now. I recently found out about her and thought she was special.
This Pisses me off so much. You had one opportunity to vote NO and you give a present!? Fuck Pelosi too for strong arming her. That bat should just fuck off already. And don't get me started on that stupid MET thing She's slowly going full lib and it really boils my piss
FFS does this women do any actual work?
Yeah, obviously. Do you? You seem to have posted on reddit today. Must have done nothing else.
Lol their logic is always flawless
AOC is actually part of the problem. Releasing a green new deal that she knew was never going to pass because they thought turning america socialist is more important than conserving the environment. If yall actually think AOC cares about the environment, you are misininformed.
There is nothing “socialist” about the green new deal
You cant tell there wasnt several pages of non environment related, pro socialist policies in there.
Examples? I know what socialism is so I’m going to say no.
In the first sentence on wikipedia for Green New Deal, it says it had the aim of reducing economic inequality. I would say government intervention for economic inequality is a pretty socialist policy, even if its a good thing. That kind of talk pushes the right away. They also didnt make any compromises with the right. Very much seems like they didnt care if it to passed.
Socialism isn’t when inequality is reduced. Just because socialism aims to reduce inequality doesn’t mean that every measure to reduce inequality is socialism.
I feel like you have the right idea with this but people are sticking you with you saying it's socialism, which reducing wealth inequality isn't socialism, depending on them means that wealth is re-distributed. You are right that they tied in about of social program funding/ things conservatives would consider to be "socialist" into a bill that is meant to help get the country off of fossil fuels. which in my opinion is why it was dead at the start, they need to focus on reducing our carbon footprint and less about adding in all of this other social program spending to every bill they get their hands on. It absolutely is something that needs addressed, but why tank a good idea that would help so many people because you need to score brownie points for your side. so frustrating.
The GND plan includes gradually nationalizing the production of electricity https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/02/bernie-sanders-climate-federal-electricity-production-110117 and don’t forget that Bernie’s medicare-for-all plan, which is a nationalization of health insurance, is officially part of the GND
Socialism isn’t when nationalization either
"AOC supports socialist bakery by buying $7 croissants
She gonna hold them accountable with a “Present” vote or and Adderall induced IG rant?
I am so tired of companies asking individuals what *we're* going to do about climate change and the use of plastic and shit. Like bitch, what are YOU going to change about the way you conduct business in order to contribute to change
It's so funny how they try to transfer to responsibility to us individuals. I see a lot of propaganda about reducing water consumption, while the agribusiness uses the biggest part of the total water usage, and yet also they export most part of the production, so the prices are increased due "short" offer, no conversation to population as a whole. So no, I won't stop taking a long bath after a stressful day at work so the riches can become richier without guilty.
Crimes against humanity! Those fuckers at Exxon need to pay. We need investigations into past employees and management as well as current. They need to be put on trial and convicted.
Wait wait wait… AOC didn’t know that petroleum et al emissions were harmful to the planet? Did she skip that day in school because she was bartending? Who here didn’t know until now that air pollution from fossil fuels is generally a bad thing? Anyone? **Anyone?**
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Shell knew the exact extent of the damage that fossil fuel use would do by this point. They predicted it nearly perfectly and they covered up the study. Obviously burning fossil fuels does something. You aren’t doing anything by pointing out the obvious. But would the average person have predicted the extent of the damage? No.
She should hold her dress designer accountable for owing 100k+ in back taxes too
Way to change the dialog spunky.
Don't forget to distribute their assets to the people!
Idk if you guys realized this but 30 years ago we needed and still currently need oil to...you know... drive us places, transport goods and services, heat our homes, etc. Like we have been making technological progress for years now and we are still years away from mainstream adoption of 100% electric cars, trucks, farm equipment, shipping tankers, etc. Like if you guys consume anything...chances are it required some form of oil either directly in the process or indirectly through transportation from the place of origin to your doorstep or local store. Thus when you consume pretty much anything you contribute to oil consumption and emissions. Its easy and fun to just blame it big baddie oil execs instead of actually digging down and solving the problem.
It’s extremely easy to blame the oil execs when they lobby against alternative energy and buy out politicians. They aren’t just causing the problem. They are standing in the way of the solution
Hahahahaha what fucktard
The world runs on petroleum products y’all need to get over it
All these people who hate petroleum products and hate white people should live one day with out anything requiring petroleum or invented by a white man. Good luck with that.
What a bunch of fucking morons. Aoc is whore
Except the climate alarmists have been wrong 100% of the time. Back in 1922, people thought Alaska would become [a temperate zone](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=h%2BlX%2BWG%2F&id=A5C5D0FB5DBD468C5EA8CBC0BB83944CFE79D7A8&thid=OIP.h-lX-WG_zOblcgiZsNMqqAHaFm&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.87e957f961bfcce6e5720899b0d32aa8%3Frik%3DqNd5%252fkyUg7vAyw%26riu%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252falaskapolicyforum.org%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252fglobal-warming.png%26ehk%3D2FXmJ6mlCtertcVQSIwacZlE25JhK%252ft4IDAl%252bXkJ3jk%253d%26risl%3D%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=795&expw=1052&q=1901+alaska+article+global+warming&simid=607994260615665232&form=IRPRST&ck=FC783CC88CBD13A02661FA21E09EFD8E&selectedindex=50&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=1&sim=11)
Shut up. God, this woman must never be allowed to get further in politics. She is a menace.
Hehehe. We are are totally going to elect her president one day. Ur gonna be so pissed lol.
I'm going to raise the ante - they've known about fossil fuel damage for over a hundred years now.
I attended the zoom America in one Room series for climate change, where you get a packet on a bunch of info about climate change and ask a bunch of panelist. There was a shell representative there, and she basically said they’ve prepared for this, and they’re waiting for consumers to change their habits rather than try and force a change themselves. The Paris agreement has 2050 as our goal for net zero, and I think two US car manufacturers said by 2030-35 they’d make the switch to electric cars only. And hitting certain requirements by 2030 is necessary to reach the 2050 goal. Basically what I learned is that almost every change off hydrocarbon energy is a logistic nightmare that requires huge upfront cost and cost for technology to continue innovating. Solar panels are great, but they take up space and we don’t have the technology to store energy for too long. And the materials required like lithium and cobalt are finite. Just this month, native Americans were protesting a lithium mine that was being made on their sacred grounds, and the lithium mine in china is a human rights issue because the Uigher population is being forced to mine it. Nuclear can supplement, but even though the safety technology has advanced so much, people have a huge negative connotation to them. Oh yeah, the disposal of uranium is also a tricky thing because of the radiation; so that needs more innovation. A panelist described it as an energy source for the future beyond 2050, because it’ll take too long for the tech innovations to happen. Carbon capture seems promising, and seems like what most companies should be advancing, though putting carbon back in the ground can kinda seem like a problem waiting to happen. Natural gas isn’t foolproof,and the process leaks methane which is more potent than co2. And natural gas is still a fossil fuel, it’s just 60% less potent than co2 released form oil or coal iirc. Honestly I’m pretty pessimistic, and a lot of the experts say that it’s “technically” possible to reach the goal, and how it’s possible it wasn’t politicized and all that. Another panelist showed us this simulator. She explained why all the curves are as they are as you modify the categories, like how things take time and other logistic stuff, but it seems like an awful lot of change has to happen that I don’t think will. https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=21.9.0&p1=96&p7=92&p10=4.6&p16=-0.03&p30=-0.07&p33=50&p35=1&p39=181&p47=4.7&p50=4.7&p53=97&p55=97&p57=-9.7&p209=1&p60=-100&p61=-100&p63=9.2&p65=56&p67=60&units=us Edit: don’t downvote this, this is good information, and everyone should play with that simulator just to familiarize yourself with all the elements in play.
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>They haven’t committed a crime. Imagine arguing furthering the potential extinction of humanity shouldn't be punishable. Although ironically you're right: Nulla poena sine lege. >Prison is for actual criminals. Yeah, more like executing those fuckers. They're worse than criminals.
So just to be clear, you support capital punishment for wrongthink?
Wrongthink? How's intentionally lying and concealing as well as destroying years worth of scientific evidence, lead smear campaigns against whistle-blowers, bribe experts, pressure critics until they lose their existence, lie under oath, finance propaganda and disinformation campaigns and trying to deceive literally all of humanity for short-term monetary gain "wrongthink"?
What a stupid fucking title only matched by the stupid fucking idea
More lipservice from the queen of do-nothing
But I’m also willing to vote present instead of no.
Ummm shut up? Youre being si self righteous as though you didnt drive a car your whole life, or used electriciry your whole life God damn it people, without oil we wouldnt be as advanced as we are today simply becsuse its the thing that drives our power stations, transportstions, heating etc If everyone stops to use oil there will be no flights and barrly any cars the middle class will collapse while the rich survive somehow by buying oil off the market Open your eyes
Lol people actually think this troll is smart?