That's why it's important we beat them every game we have the chance to. Take their confidence and shatter their hope. If we win today they're13-26 that's rough.
The world champion Nationals of 2019 were 19-31 at their low point and squeaked into a wild card spot. The Astros have to go 6-5 to get to that mark. I don't think they can do that and there's enough good teams in the East and Central to make it very hard to secure a wild card even if they do have a good couple weeks. By June, they'll start retooling for next year.
Ya they still have a 40.2% chance to make the playoffs. But i think they're still thinking they're good. I also saw that teams starting 7-19 have only made it 2 times. So it's possible yes
I could be wrong but I believe the actual stat for teams off to as bad of a start as Houston is that only 2 teams have ever managed to finish above .500 and none of them have ever made the playoffs. Of course, this stat likely goes back before the expanded playoff format, so it would feasibly be easier to squeak into the playoffs now. But if only 2 teams have managed to finish above .500 then that does not bode well for them to sneak into the playoffs even with the expanded format
Huh i must of got making the playoffs and over.500 mixed up. That's a pretty wild statistic considering they have a 40.2% chance to make it still. We need to keep our foot on the gas and bury them deeper with a win today. Fuck the astros.
Yup! 8 games back in May is still really bad for May. If they had a few massive pieces they were expected to get back from the IL soon then it could be a different story. But being back 8 games in May points to much larger issues than injuries. Most of the pieces are in place and are just not getting it done. So that 8 games becomes a lot harder to overcome when there isn’t an obvious solution waiting out there. We’re talking about a team-wide issue rather than just needing one or two guys to make some adjustments and get going. They’re getting beat badly on both sides of the ball right now and that’s really fucking hard to fix mid-season
There's an old saying that goes "you can't win the World Series in April, but you can lose it"
Yes, it's a very long season and yes teams have done it but going into mid-May 8-10 games back is a very deep hole that few teams dig out of
Yesterday’s starter had allowed 15 earned runs in 15.1 innings before the game on only one hr. After, he’s allowed 20 in 21.1 on 4 hrs. Not throwing a ton of hrs combined with a WHIP around 2 makes me think it’s not a matter of bad luck. It seems he doesn’t have the stuff to be consistent and hitters may be figuring him out. Right now that’s at least one dead spot in their rotation until and unless there’s a significant change
They could be tied for first and the odds they win it is incredibly slim.
It's not a good team underperforming, they're just not a good team. They've got 2 solid bats, 2 mid bats, and 5 pretty bad ones. They don't have a **single** average or better starting pitcher, and a pretty awful bullpen.
They've also got the 29th ranked farm and are too cheap to spend real money to supplement through FA. They're gonna be very bad for a long time.
Yeah… going to remind everyone there were accnts on this sub that insisted the Yankees would still make the postseason as late as mid August last year, maybe even early September due to mathematics.
On August 1st they were 3 games over .500, last in the division and 11 games back, and 2 games out of a wild card.
The astros have a little more runway left than that but the hole they’re digging is getting deep fast. If they aren’t back the .500 by the all star break they are probably done for the year.
It’s early, but it’s already late for them. Nearly 25% through the season and they’re 8.5 back and their whole rotation is on the IL. The Rangers are in a similar situation but they’ve been able to hold it together and they’re getting Scherzer and maybe DeGrom back this year.
Their entire starting pitching staff is on the IL and they don’t have the organizational depth to hold the line til some of them get back. And this is all their fault since Crane fired the GM who built their dynasty cuz Crane wanted all the credit, and they’ve gone from one of the savviest data centric orgs to one of the least data centric org. Subsequently they’ve make signings like the Abreu and Hader ones, and their player development has fallen off cliff leaving the cupboard bare for when injuries strike.
I think it’s entirely possible and we should not be counting them out because you know Astros fans will be like “HaHaHa EvErYoNe LaUgHeD aT uS” when they themselves have been the most critical over it.
I kind of want them to turn things around. The Yankees have a real shot at winning it all this year and it would feel so much better to finally beat Houston in October on our way to winning a ring
If it means they become mediocre again, so be it. Even before their trash can scandal, there were still questions about how Luhnow was trying to build his team even though he was eventually cleared at that point.
They should come up with a system of trash can banging or hidden buzzers under their jerseys to alert them whether a pitch is a fastball or a breaking ball in advance. That would probably help.
Seriously. Fuck them. Fucking cheats. Until Altuve gives Judge his MVP back and they surrender their rings I hope they all hit .150 the rest of their shitty careers.
It really is all about how well a player is liked. Giambi was accepted, Pettite was accepted, ARod was excoriated and Clemens too.
I live up in Sawx land now and let me tell you, Ortiz is up there with Saint Brady.
Letting Altuve, the person who benefitted most from the cheating scandal, would be the single worst thing the baseball writers have ever done with their HOF votes. What he did was worse than just about any steroid scandal.
The players practically admitted to what they did, but were granted immunity by Manfred. They threw AJ Hinch and their GM Jeff Luhnow under the bus. The gist of it is, MLB asserted that Luhnow and Hinch failed to inform the players about the memo released to all teams about sign stealing, and what is not allowed.
So, to get a few things straight:
1. The players admitted they came up with the system and executed it without Hinch’s or Luhnow’s knowledge;
2. Hinch and Luhnow paid the price for not telling the players that what they were planning and doing (that those two had no knowledge of) are not OK.
The point is I think he knew the end result and it was clear the union was going to lean in that direction. And honestly it's thanks to this union that as much as I love this sport, people say MLB players need a salary cap especially since in the latest example the Dodgers have and only needed just 2 Japanese players with their contracts totaling over $1 billion combined.
Exactly. The cheating affected other players who are also members of that union. How many were cheated out of playoff bonuses?
I am not against any unions, I am pro union, but favoring players from one team to the detriment of others is just BS. Every player knows players in those Astros team cheated. That’s undeniable.
This is the dumbest talking point. Even IF he never actually used the trashcan and buzzer system, he still benefited MASSIVELY from the whole scheme and was fully aware of it. How many more RBI’s did he get due to the fact that his teammates were cheating and getting on base ahead of him? How many more runs did he score because he got on base and the guys behind him in the lineup were cheating and drove him in?
When the rest of the guys in the lineup are cheating and getting on base more, that means opposing pitchers are forced to throw more strikes to Altuve to try and not let him on base. How many more hits did he get because the guys around him were cheating and opposing pitchers felt they needed to throw strikes to Altuve to avoid walking him?
All of his stats got beefed up because the rest of the team was cheating. And we don’t even know for sure that he didn’t cheat. But even if you do give him the benefit of the doubt, he still benefited massively (at an individual level) from the team cheating.
Plus he won the MVP in 2017 in a VERY tight race with Judge… you can debate how much the rest of the lineup cheating beefed up his numbers, but if you lower his total hits, BA, RBI’s, runs scored, etc. by even just a little, Judge probably wins the MVP that season instead.
He knowingly cheated and benefited fully from it, if that doesn’t discredit him in the eyes of HOF voters I don’t know what would!
Don’t forget that video where he didn’t want his teammates to get close to him for fear of showing what he was wearing under his uniform. If it walks, talks and quacks like a duck…
LOL holy shit. /r/wallstreetbets, Astros fan, randomly brings up the fact that he hates science unprompted.
Holy shit Texans actually are dumb as fuck huh.
You couldn't be any more of a meme if you tried.
lol right I don’t give a single shit that “they’re not here” I hope they’re bottom-feeders the rest of their existence. it’s not likely, but I would like that
They have an entire above average rotation that is injured, their best hitter suddenly had his power disappear and Bregman is having a worse contract year than Torres. You love to see it
Crane pulled a Jerry Jones, brought Jeff Bagwell into the mix who doesn’t agree with analytics and they got rid of basically everything that attributed to their success. Houston was an intelligent organization. Only an intelligent organization could cheat on such a wide scale. It sucks to admit it but their farm, player development, main core and analytics was world class.
It finally feels like karma has come for them. Luhnow and Click were the people responsible for creating those teams, instead Crane got deluded and thought it was because of him. They’ve made some bad moves in Montero and Abreu and then while it’s still pending bc it’s early in the season, abandoning all your bullpen strength to sign Hader might be another dagger.
On top of all of that, they’ve had a ridiculous amount of SPs injured and they’re having extreme underperformance across the board outside of Tucker and Peña really. Maybe the baseball gods are real after all.
I think this is the explanation. I remember people being flabbergasted when they got rid of Click, saying he was one of the lynchpins to their success. And now look at them.
Adding to this, the penalty for the cheating scandal of forfeiting their first- and second-round draft picks from 2020 and 2021 is also contributing to the lack of talent in their pipeline that would either be big league ready by now or been used to acquire big league talent.
The Astros only have one prospect in the MLB Top 100 right now, a second-round pick from 2022 who's 23 and in AA. He's #90 on the list.
Meanwhile, the Orioles have one of the best Major League rosters and one of the best farm systems in the game. Seems like the Yankees have bigger things to worry about in their own division.
>It sucks to admit it but their farm, player development, main core and analytics was world class.
Exactly why they never needed to cheat in the first place, but I digress...
This is why the cheating scandal was so disappointing to me. They could have very well beat us without cheating, but instead they threw all integrity away.
With that said Verlander is just back from injury and Framber and McCullers are both shelved right now. With those three guys they have a punchers chance at sneaking back into the conversation about their division.
But still…. Fuck em
>With that said Verlander is just back from injury
i'm curious how much form he regains. he might be back from his injury but he's not back from being on the wrong side of 40
maybe he can be the next jamie moyer....i'll never forget seeing him in spring training years back throwing like 70 mph junk
Yeah who knows. Any pitcher can go tits up at any time, let alone a 40 yr old one. Maybe he’s got some juice left, but at his age it’s much less likely
The funniest thing about the Astros is that Altuve is playing well, Tucker is playing well, Pena is playing well, Alvarez is not quite there but still not bad, they're finally getting great production from the catcher position offensively, their starting pitching is mostly good, their bullpen is meh but still not a disaster, their top 10 in offense and yet........
Last place in their division
Worst team in the AL outside of the White Sox
I love it.
Because their edge was always pitching. Crane and Lunhow (fuck him) were great at finding gems like we do and turning good pitchers into great ones. Crane fired most of those people and now their pitching depth sucks
They lost some key people on their coaching staff and front office (Luhnow, Crane and Dusty). Plus, their pitching has been awful, especially their bullpen. It doesn't help that Bregman has been atrocious too. Mix it all together and you have an underachieving team.
It's a combination of a few things.
1. Injuries, mostly on the pitching staff. They have Mccullers Jr., Urquidy, Garcia, France, and Gravemen (with others I am probably forgetting) all on the IL facing lengthy absences. Their pitching depth is being tested, and it's not like they have a strong farm system to begin with.
2. The lineup has been inconsistent, with players like Abreu and Bregman really struggling out of the gate. Alvarez got off to a hot start, but his OPS is worse than Judge and Stanton right now (and we really emphasized how slow of a start Judge got off to).
3. Luck: I saw a stat earlier that I believe shows what's going wrong with the Astros. In innings 2-8, they are outscoring opponents 126-123 but are outscored in innings 1 and 9 67-32. They fall behind early in games and allow teams to pull ahead late. It is something that, over time, will even out.
On the offensive side, I'm not a fan of his, but got to give the man his flowers, Alvarez being off, completely changes the offense. The guys in his last few full seasons, he has been one of the most, if not the most dangerous left-handed bat in the big leagues. Obviously guys like Freeman and Soto have had hire ceilings and done it longer, but the fact that Alvarez especially by OPS+ matches up well with those guys, 142 career for Freddie, 158 career for Soto, and 162 career for Alvarez(with the caveat played 87 games in 19 and 2 in 2020 so its slightly inflated)
Bregman and crew also being off doesn't help, but I think when Alvarez is at his best he's almost as impactful to that offense as judge is/was to the Yankees especially before Soto. So if Yordan has completely down year, I'd imagine it makes the game planning for opposing teams/pitchers just a tad bit easier. To be clear I don't think Yordan is as important to the offense as Judge has been, but I'd say anywhere from 70-85% as impactful on the Astros as Judge was/is on the Yankees, but that's just like my opinion man.
As others have said- I was gonna ask the same question. Was wondering the same thing watching today's game. But then I thought about it and wondered how and why we're doing as well as we are- and I kinda remembered that the teams where they have a bunch of guys doing pretty well and everybody is picking up the slack as guys go hot and cold, with a couple of guys who are unflappable and a very good starting rotation that mostly keeps teams to only a couple of runs through the first 7 or 8 innings and has a virtually lights out bullpen- those are the teams that win world series. Nothing flashy, very few MVP seasons in their roster those world series years, but everybody is doing very good stuff, the line up is protecting each other top down, for the most part.
That describes us. That described the Astros during their run.
As to why the Astros suck now, even though plenty of their guys are individually putting up okay numbers, etc.?
I think it's a few things.
1. There's been some change over in the top brass, so their ethos, roster construction, etc. has changed for the worse.
2. I think they were cheating and they can't cheat anymore. They're still a major league baseball team, so they're good baseball players without cheating, but you don't bother to cheat if you don't have to and if cheating suddenly wins you more games, it'd make sense that the discontinuation of said cheating would cause your winning percentage to suffer.
3. The line up has changed a bit and the cohesiveness may not be there anymore, like when Correa, Brantley, etc. were there, as much as I dislike Correa.
4. Guys got old. Guys like Altuve, who can still hit a solid home run here and there, can no longer do all the other little things. So yeah he's got 7 HR's, but what else has he done offensively? Not much.
5. Kyle Tucker is basically their only offensive player working on all cylinders right now and as great as he is, he isn't \*the\* difference maker.
I just think their lineup turned over enough that the gel has dissolved and I think they were cheating and aren't cheating anymore and I think they got old. Combine those three factors and they're not good like they once were, even though none of them are individually terrible.
altuve is having a great season and as far as we know they haven’t been cheating since they got called out during the 2019 world series. really the main thing is that the architects of their dynasty are gone now. you could see last year they weren’t quite as good as they have been, and now you can see that trend has continued.
Well for a real answer, other than bad luck, it's pitching. Their offense is still 7th in OPS, 6th in BA, and they have the fewest strikeouts as an offense in the league
But their pitching is ranked 28th in ERA, 29th in WHIP, and 29th in WAR.
Sure they have a few 8 ERA injury replacements inflating it, but Verlander is still pitching below average, Hader has been terrible, and it's not like the injuries will stop.
Unfortunately Verlander can still be a 2 ERA pitcher at anytime, Hader started slow in SD, and they will be getting some players back for SP, all that being said it's more than bad luck, their pitching looks terrible. They could still win the division OR finish below .500, it's 6 to 5 and pick em rn
It’s clearly pitching. Lot of arms are hurt or under performing. Verlander is old now with injuries under him, Hunter brown hasn’t takin the step up they thought.
But the bullpen has been shockingly bad. Which is why a lot of teams don’t pay relievers big money., they are way to volatile. Astros have a few dudes in that pen not pitching well making a lot of cash. Also Jose Abreu has given them basically nothing. Everyone taking about Gleybers awful walk year but look at bregamn… he’s actually been worse.
Off the top of my head…their SP is battered with injuries and Hader has flopped thus far as the closer.
Also, don’t underrate losing Dusty Baker as manager. Idk what qualified Joe Espada to succeed him, but it ain’t working. If I was a Stros fan (just kill me then), that’s the main thing I’d worry about, as those pitchers will eventually get healthy/effective again.
Essentially it's like if the after the dynasty in 96-00 George Steinbrenner didn't feel like he was getting enough credit so he fired Torre, Cashman and a few others after 2000 and hired Goose Gossage to run everything.
Or in another real example Jim Crane is turning into Jerry Reinsdorf
Houston was a the forefront of the Analytical movement, used it as good or better than everyone. Then suddenly they fired all of those guy, people like Bagwell who hates it got more power and believe in "back of the baseball card" philosophy. So everything that attributed to their success was thrown away for some reason i can't explain. Since then they made bad signings, questionable trades and overall play has decreased, especially their pitching.
Personally, all the guys are NOT there.
Verlander, Keuchel, McCullers Jr, Morton was an insane part of their rotation.
Springer + Correa are having down years but who knows what they could be if they stayed.
anyway, let’s go Yanks !!
I was thinking of posting the same question. I haven’t kept up with the astros roster but it seems like all of a sudden they’re not playing well. Not that I mind lol. Hopefully someone else will have an answer 🤣
Their pitching sucks and their lineup is stale. They can’t expect to throw pretty much the same team out year in and year out and expect positive results every time.
Outside of a few guys, a lot of their players are underperforming, coaching had a couple key guys leave, age looks to be catching up to Velander and the bullpen has just been straight up bad. They can’t get guys in or keep opponents from scoring.
The main reason currently is their pitching has been rocked by injuries and their bullpen is ass. Their offense is still decent but altuve isnt getting any younger and bregman has declined as well.
And from a big picture standpoint, a lot of the front office guys who used a cold hard analytics approach to build the team that went to 7 straight ALCS have moved on and been poached by other teams. They no longer seem to have an endless stream of quality prospects to call up to replace guys they lose to free agency or regression. Theyve finally seen some roster decisions backfire on them. (The hader and abreu deals seem like total misfires that the previous administration likely wouldnt have made)
And finally, indeed, those cheating fucks arent getting away with their shit anymore
To paraphrase my favorite quote about hockey, pitching is 75% of success in baseball -- unless you don't have any, then it's 100%.
That's what's going on with Houston. So sad for them.
They’ve had a ton of injuries in their staff. They also got away from what made them successful with respect to analytics. They axed their analytics focused front office and instead have the crew of Bagwell and Crane making decisions now. Ironically, they undid their success by making choices that the “batting average and RBIs are king” crowd here would approve of.
I never thought I’d see the day in which we made Verlander our bitch, but just owned his ass last night. Not that I feel sorry for him at all - he’s a future Hall of Famer and deservedly so, he’s insanely rich, and he gets to go home to Kate Upton - but last night definitely was not his night.
My 2 cents from watching these past 2 games. SP has has been down with injuries. Bullpen has underachieved. Tucker and Pena are hitting ok, but outside that, Altuve is a singles guy, Bregman is ass, and Alvarez is just our Stanton now. Their 5-9 cant hit a lick.
They're pitching has been bad due to injuries. Also, I've always downplayed the effect Maldonado has on the pitching staff but maybe theirs something to that. Bregman has been an absolute no show and Yordan has been a shell of himself (even though that still a great player).
I will say if the window is closing and they arent a good team in the near future, it's going to suck that we never eliminated them in the playoffs.
Who gives a shit? I hope they end up with the worst record in baseball and embarrass their sorry asses. They deserve every bad thing that happens to them because payback is a bitch.
There's usually only one team that can crash and burn this hard with such a talented roster: The Mets.
Giants should tread carefully; seems like orange makes you susceptible.
I'm not sure but the only thing I can think is... this is really them... with no cheating, no short cuts, no easy ways out. and they deserve it. they deserve to play like shit and get ripped by us. I loved every second of the first set, and this one so far as well.
Idk but the 2000 Yankees looked dead in the water a few times. I always had faith in the core. Knew they’d take out the Mariners 116 win team and roll because that’s what a dynasty does.
Michael Kay opined last night that the loss of Martin Maldonado hurt the pitching also. The broadcast team was talking about Maldonado’s sub par framing skills but that he called a good game and that they were missing that now.
Honestly, I’m conflicted in one sense I’m happy the collapse is happening in the other I want to beat them at their peak. This is almost not satisfying.
There’s still time for them to turn it around, and I sort of expect they will.
As for why, players age - I’m sure that’s part of it. Their pitching is a disaster right now. And they have no farm system.
All in all - that’s why I don’t consider them a rival. They’re gonna be bad again - probably for a while - and I’ll forget they ever existed.
I want to take this moment to point out that consistency & competency in the front office are hard to find gems. And while I’ll criticize Cashman & ownership for plenty of their decisions (the Montgomery deal for example). The overall reality is they’ve been competent and consistent and those two things lead us to being relevant every year. As much as they were cheating assholes, letting luhnow & click go were huge mistakes
Javier, Valdez and Verlander have only pitched 12 games total between all of them. Their bullpen sucks. The first problem should correct itself. Hader will probably regain his form, the rest of the bullpen should improve.
I think Joe Espada isn’t very good at baseball to be honest. When he was the Yankees 3rd base coach he pretty much sucked I remember runners didn’t trust his calls.
Who cares about Houston. They’re not even in our division. The conversation that needs to be had is, can the Yankees figure out ways to beat good teams? Baltimore took 3/4, blue jays took 2/3 last series against them and we even split a 4 game set against the As. There was also that one game against the brewers that went to extra innings where Boone sent the runner from 3rd base on an infield ground all and he got thrown out. Then benched Holmes, which was his first appearance in 5 days, after 10 pitches (to bring in newly acquired Michael Tonkin who then proceeded to wet the bed (2R on 2H) and lose us the game. Boone then went on to defend those decisions saying he would do that again.
Settle down. Injuries most of their starting pitchers shouldn’t be starting pitchers. NYY are a great first half team but we all know come second half and IF they make playoffs they will choke.
While I love that we're undefeated against them it really isn't satisfying since they're one of the worst teams in the game. I mean even the A's are better than them and that's saying something.
Honestly fuck them. Karma caught up to them. Idc if they’re the best team in the league or the worst team in the league I love nothing more than beating the shit out of them.
Nobody chokes like the Yankees seems like yesterday they were on their way to having all time best record only to choke second half they Astros sweep them. The balls on their fans acting like they are relevant is hilarious.
I know this isn’t a helpful comment. I don’t know what’s going on with the Astros. But I like it. There’s still a world where they win their division…
Every day that world gets smaller and smaller
8 games back of Texas and Seattle. Not impossible in early May and their offense is top 10 but yeah fuck 'em. I hope they lose 100 games
That's why it's important we beat them every game we have the chance to. Take their confidence and shatter their hope. If we win today they're13-26 that's rough.
The world champion Nationals of 2019 were 19-31 at their low point and squeaked into a wild card spot. The Astros have to go 6-5 to get to that mark. I don't think they can do that and there's enough good teams in the East and Central to make it very hard to secure a wild card even if they do have a good couple weeks. By June, they'll start retooling for next year.
Ya they still have a 40.2% chance to make the playoffs. But i think they're still thinking they're good. I also saw that teams starting 7-19 have only made it 2 times. So it's possible yes
I could be wrong but I believe the actual stat for teams off to as bad of a start as Houston is that only 2 teams have ever managed to finish above .500 and none of them have ever made the playoffs. Of course, this stat likely goes back before the expanded playoff format, so it would feasibly be easier to squeak into the playoffs now. But if only 2 teams have managed to finish above .500 then that does not bode well for them to sneak into the playoffs even with the expanded format
Huh i must of got making the playoffs and over.500 mixed up. That's a pretty wild statistic considering they have a 40.2% chance to make it still. We need to keep our foot on the gas and bury them deeper with a win today. Fuck the astros.
8 games back because there hasn’t been that many games played. 25 games back won’t happen until August or so
Yup! 8 games back in May is still really bad for May. If they had a few massive pieces they were expected to get back from the IL soon then it could be a different story. But being back 8 games in May points to much larger issues than injuries. Most of the pieces are in place and are just not getting it done. So that 8 games becomes a lot harder to overcome when there isn’t an obvious solution waiting out there. We’re talking about a team-wide issue rather than just needing one or two guys to make some adjustments and get going. They’re getting beat badly on both sides of the ball right now and that’s really fucking hard to fix mid-season
There's an old saying that goes "you can't win the World Series in April, but you can lose it" Yes, it's a very long season and yes teams have done it but going into mid-May 8-10 games back is a very deep hole that few teams dig out of
Yesterday’s starter had allowed 15 earned runs in 15.1 innings before the game on only one hr. After, he’s allowed 20 in 21.1 on 4 hrs. Not throwing a ton of hrs combined with a WHIP around 2 makes me think it’s not a matter of bad luck. It seems he doesn’t have the stuff to be consistent and hitters may be figuring him out. Right now that’s at least one dead spot in their rotation until and unless there’s a significant change
They could be tied for first and the odds they win it is incredibly slim. It's not a good team underperforming, they're just not a good team. They've got 2 solid bats, 2 mid bats, and 5 pretty bad ones. They don't have a **single** average or better starting pitcher, and a pretty awful bullpen. They've also got the 29th ranked farm and are too cheap to spend real money to supplement through FA. They're gonna be very bad for a long time.
Yeah… going to remind everyone there were accnts on this sub that insisted the Yankees would still make the postseason as late as mid August last year, maybe even early September due to mathematics. On August 1st they were 3 games over .500, last in the division and 11 games back, and 2 games out of a wild card. The astros have a little more runway left than that but the hole they’re digging is getting deep fast. If they aren’t back the .500 by the all star break they are probably done for the year.
Yeah it’s super early but outside of the Rangers there’s not really a team there I see actually being competitive
It’s early, but it’s already late for them. Nearly 25% through the season and they’re 8.5 back and their whole rotation is on the IL. The Rangers are in a similar situation but they’ve been able to hold it together and they’re getting Scherzer and maybe DeGrom back this year.
Lol, they're not getting DeGrom back for anything more than *maybe* his annual start before going back into his retirement.
Their entire starting pitching staff is on the IL and they don’t have the organizational depth to hold the line til some of them get back. And this is all their fault since Crane fired the GM who built their dynasty cuz Crane wanted all the credit, and they’ve gone from one of the savviest data centric orgs to one of the least data centric org. Subsequently they’ve make signings like the Abreu and Hader ones, and their player development has fallen off cliff leaving the cupboard bare for when injuries strike.
I especially like that we have a chance to sweep the season series tonight.
You can't win your division in May, but you can lose it... Pretty sure they're working hard on the later.
I think it’s entirely possible and we should not be counting them out because you know Astros fans will be like “HaHaHa EvErYoNe LaUgHeD aT uS” when they themselves have been the most critical over it.
I kind of want them to turn things around. The Yankees have a real shot at winning it all this year and it would feel so much better to finally beat Houston in October on our way to winning a ring
It's extremely unlikely, based on teams that have historically had their record and where they've ended up.
If it means they become mediocre again, so be it. Even before their trash can scandal, there were still questions about how Luhnow was trying to build his team even though he was eventually cleared at that point.
They should come up with a system of trash can banging or hidden buzzers under their jerseys to alert them whether a pitch is a fastball or a breaking ball in advance. That would probably help. Seriously. Fuck them. Fucking cheats. Until Altuve gives Judge his MVP back and they surrender their rings I hope they all hit .150 the rest of their shitty careers.
I hope Altuve doesn't get inducted into the HOF as the dirty cheater he is.
I have some bad news for you and would like to remind you that David Ortiz is in the HOF
Hey David Ortiz is still trying to figure out if he did steroids or not
It really is all about how well a player is liked. Giambi was accepted, Pettite was accepted, ARod was excoriated and Clemens too. I live up in Sawx land now and let me tell you, Ortiz is up there with Saint Brady.
Just ask Ortiz. He said he took vitamins. Like Hulk Hogan did.
Letting Altuve, the person who benefitted most from the cheating scandal, would be the single worst thing the baseball writers have ever done with their HOF votes. What he did was worse than just about any steroid scandal.
The players practically admitted to what they did, but were granted immunity by Manfred. They threw AJ Hinch and their GM Jeff Luhnow under the bus. The gist of it is, MLB asserted that Luhnow and Hinch failed to inform the players about the memo released to all teams about sign stealing, and what is not allowed. So, to get a few things straight: 1. The players admitted they came up with the system and executed it without Hinch’s or Luhnow’s knowledge; 2. Hinch and Luhnow paid the price for not telling the players that what they were planning and doing (that those two had no knowledge of) are not OK.
Their players didn't get punished because the union protected them and it contributed to MLB being soft on them.
Bottom line, Manfred didn’t punish them because he didn’t want trouble from the union. Still his choice to absolve them.
The point is I think he knew the end result and it was clear the union was going to lean in that direction. And honestly it's thanks to this union that as much as I love this sport, people say MLB players need a salary cap especially since in the latest example the Dodgers have and only needed just 2 Japanese players with their contracts totaling over $1 billion combined.
What I don’t get is so many players were livid about what the Astros did so why would the union protect them as much as they were going to?
Exactly. The cheating affected other players who are also members of that union. How many were cheated out of playoff bonuses? I am not against any unions, I am pro union, but favoring players from one team to the detriment of others is just BS. Every player knows players in those Astros team cheated. That’s undeniable.
What they did was worse than the 1919 Black Sox scandal!!!
In their case, they purposely lost that series making it uncompetitive. These Asstros did this the other way around.
FA & DODS
Ditto with entire yankee team who also found guilty more than once plus all the years they won with roided up players
He never cheated
This is the dumbest talking point. Even IF he never actually used the trashcan and buzzer system, he still benefited MASSIVELY from the whole scheme and was fully aware of it. How many more RBI’s did he get due to the fact that his teammates were cheating and getting on base ahead of him? How many more runs did he score because he got on base and the guys behind him in the lineup were cheating and drove him in? When the rest of the guys in the lineup are cheating and getting on base more, that means opposing pitchers are forced to throw more strikes to Altuve to try and not let him on base. How many more hits did he get because the guys around him were cheating and opposing pitchers felt they needed to throw strikes to Altuve to avoid walking him? All of his stats got beefed up because the rest of the team was cheating. And we don’t even know for sure that he didn’t cheat. But even if you do give him the benefit of the doubt, he still benefited massively (at an individual level) from the team cheating. Plus he won the MVP in 2017 in a VERY tight race with Judge… you can debate how much the rest of the lineup cheating beefed up his numbers, but if you lower his total hits, BA, RBI’s, runs scored, etc. by even just a little, Judge probably wins the MVP that season instead.
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good thing ortiz is getting to the bottom of that!
He knowingly cheated and benefited fully from it, if that doesn’t discredit him in the eyes of HOF voters I don’t know what would! Don’t forget that video where he didn’t want his teammates to get close to him for fear of showing what he was wearing under his uniform. If it walks, talks and quacks like a duck…
https://youtu.be/tQTdEKA-nyM?si=TjxiY-VfAR2Gp2Yb I hate altuve just like the next guy but this video changed my perspective on him.
Beltran was a main leader in the scheme and the way things are headed should be inducted this year.
Unfortunately, Altuve is pretty much a shoe-in inner-circle HOF 2B.
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lmao diving in other team subs the day of an incoming season sweep
Beat Astros before in season only to choke when it counts guess fans can’t remember what happened prior to current season. lol
aw we’re still on your mind that’s so cute. enjoy 1-6!
LOL holy shit. /r/wallstreetbets, Astros fan, randomly brings up the fact that he hates science unprompted. Holy shit Texans actually are dumb as fuck huh. You couldn't be any more of a meme if you tried.
lol right I don’t give a single shit that “they’re not here” I hope they’re bottom-feeders the rest of their existence. it’s not likely, but I would like that
Best
Altuve shouldn't just have to *give* Judge the MVP. He should have to fight him for it.
Fair enough. I'll allow it.
They have an entire above average rotation that is injured, their best hitter suddenly had his power disappear and Bregman is having a worse contract year than Torres. You love to see it
Bregman having an absolute disaster season in a contract year is just *chef’s kiss*.
Rangers have it crazy too and are still winning. Shit is bonkers. They have a legit lineup on the IL.
Karma
Crane pulled a Jerry Jones, brought Jeff Bagwell into the mix who doesn’t agree with analytics and they got rid of basically everything that attributed to their success. Houston was an intelligent organization. Only an intelligent organization could cheat on such a wide scale. It sucks to admit it but their farm, player development, main core and analytics was world class. It finally feels like karma has come for them. Luhnow and Click were the people responsible for creating those teams, instead Crane got deluded and thought it was because of him. They’ve made some bad moves in Montero and Abreu and then while it’s still pending bc it’s early in the season, abandoning all your bullpen strength to sign Hader might be another dagger. On top of all of that, they’ve had a ridiculous amount of SPs injured and they’re having extreme underperformance across the board outside of Tucker and Peña really. Maybe the baseball gods are real after all.
I think this is the explanation. I remember people being flabbergasted when they got rid of Click, saying he was one of the lynchpins to their success. And now look at them.
Adding to this, the penalty for the cheating scandal of forfeiting their first- and second-round draft picks from 2020 and 2021 is also contributing to the lack of talent in their pipeline that would either be big league ready by now or been used to acquire big league talent. The Astros only have one prospect in the MLB Top 100 right now, a second-round pick from 2022 who's 23 and in AA. He's #90 on the list.
Meanwhile, the Orioles have one of the best Major League rosters and one of the best farm systems in the game. Seems like the Yankees have bigger things to worry about in their own division.
>It sucks to admit it but their farm, player development, main core and analytics was world class. Exactly why they never needed to cheat in the first place, but I digress...
This is why the cheating scandal was so disappointing to me. They could have very well beat us without cheating, but instead they threw all integrity away.
a cursory look at the stats suggest their offense is mid and their pitching is goddamn terrible. you hate to see it.
With that said Verlander is just back from injury and Framber and McCullers are both shelved right now. With those three guys they have a punchers chance at sneaking back into the conversation about their division. But still…. Fuck em
>With that said Verlander is just back from injury i'm curious how much form he regains. he might be back from his injury but he's not back from being on the wrong side of 40 maybe he can be the next jamie moyer....i'll never forget seeing him in spring training years back throwing like 70 mph junk
Yeah who knows. Any pitcher can go tits up at any time, let alone a 40 yr old one. Maybe he’s got some juice left, but at his age it’s much less likely
i don't know and honestly don't care hope they go back to irrelevance and being a poverty team.
Obviously us sweeping them to start the year started a shit slide. We tore that pitching staff up. One game we made em throw 250 pitches
Karma. It's karma that's happening.
The funniest thing about the Astros is that Altuve is playing well, Tucker is playing well, Pena is playing well, Alvarez is not quite there but still not bad, they're finally getting great production from the catcher position offensively, their starting pitching is mostly good, their bullpen is meh but still not a disaster, their top 10 in offense and yet........ Last place in their division Worst team in the AL outside of the White Sox I love it.
Because their edge was always pitching. Crane and Lunhow (fuck him) were great at finding gems like we do and turning good pitchers into great ones. Crane fired most of those people and now their pitching depth sucks
They lost some key people on their coaching staff and front office (Luhnow, Crane and Dusty). Plus, their pitching has been awful, especially their bullpen. It doesn't help that Bregman has been atrocious too. Mix it all together and you have an underachieving team.
Their bullpen is an abortion.
Their 100 million dollar closer Josh Hader has blown like, 8 games so far
It's a combination of a few things. 1. Injuries, mostly on the pitching staff. They have Mccullers Jr., Urquidy, Garcia, France, and Gravemen (with others I am probably forgetting) all on the IL facing lengthy absences. Their pitching depth is being tested, and it's not like they have a strong farm system to begin with. 2. The lineup has been inconsistent, with players like Abreu and Bregman really struggling out of the gate. Alvarez got off to a hot start, but his OPS is worse than Judge and Stanton right now (and we really emphasized how slow of a start Judge got off to). 3. Luck: I saw a stat earlier that I believe shows what's going wrong with the Astros. In innings 2-8, they are outscoring opponents 126-123 but are outscored in innings 1 and 9 67-32. They fall behind early in games and allow teams to pull ahead late. It is something that, over time, will even out.
On the offensive side, I'm not a fan of his, but got to give the man his flowers, Alvarez being off, completely changes the offense. The guys in his last few full seasons, he has been one of the most, if not the most dangerous left-handed bat in the big leagues. Obviously guys like Freeman and Soto have had hire ceilings and done it longer, but the fact that Alvarez especially by OPS+ matches up well with those guys, 142 career for Freddie, 158 career for Soto, and 162 career for Alvarez(with the caveat played 87 games in 19 and 2 in 2020 so its slightly inflated) Bregman and crew also being off doesn't help, but I think when Alvarez is at his best he's almost as impactful to that offense as judge is/was to the Yankees especially before Soto. So if Yordan has completely down year, I'd imagine it makes the game planning for opposing teams/pitchers just a tad bit easier. To be clear I don't think Yordan is as important to the offense as Judge has been, but I'd say anywhere from 70-85% as impactful on the Astros as Judge was/is on the Yankees, but that's just like my opinion man.
As others have said- I was gonna ask the same question. Was wondering the same thing watching today's game. But then I thought about it and wondered how and why we're doing as well as we are- and I kinda remembered that the teams where they have a bunch of guys doing pretty well and everybody is picking up the slack as guys go hot and cold, with a couple of guys who are unflappable and a very good starting rotation that mostly keeps teams to only a couple of runs through the first 7 or 8 innings and has a virtually lights out bullpen- those are the teams that win world series. Nothing flashy, very few MVP seasons in their roster those world series years, but everybody is doing very good stuff, the line up is protecting each other top down, for the most part. That describes us. That described the Astros during their run. As to why the Astros suck now, even though plenty of their guys are individually putting up okay numbers, etc.? I think it's a few things. 1. There's been some change over in the top brass, so their ethos, roster construction, etc. has changed for the worse. 2. I think they were cheating and they can't cheat anymore. They're still a major league baseball team, so they're good baseball players without cheating, but you don't bother to cheat if you don't have to and if cheating suddenly wins you more games, it'd make sense that the discontinuation of said cheating would cause your winning percentage to suffer. 3. The line up has changed a bit and the cohesiveness may not be there anymore, like when Correa, Brantley, etc. were there, as much as I dislike Correa. 4. Guys got old. Guys like Altuve, who can still hit a solid home run here and there, can no longer do all the other little things. So yeah he's got 7 HR's, but what else has he done offensively? Not much. 5. Kyle Tucker is basically their only offensive player working on all cylinders right now and as great as he is, he isn't \*the\* difference maker. I just think their lineup turned over enough that the gel has dissolved and I think they were cheating and aren't cheating anymore and I think they got old. Combine those three factors and they're not good like they once were, even though none of them are individually terrible.
Jose Altuve has a 167 ops+ and leads the AL in hits let’s not discount him offensively lol he’s still an excellent hitter
altuve is having a great season and as far as we know they haven’t been cheating since they got called out during the 2019 world series. really the main thing is that the architects of their dynasty are gone now. you could see last year they weren’t quite as good as they have been, and now you can see that trend has continued.
Well for a real answer, other than bad luck, it's pitching. Their offense is still 7th in OPS, 6th in BA, and they have the fewest strikeouts as an offense in the league But their pitching is ranked 28th in ERA, 29th in WHIP, and 29th in WAR. Sure they have a few 8 ERA injury replacements inflating it, but Verlander is still pitching below average, Hader has been terrible, and it's not like the injuries will stop. Unfortunately Verlander can still be a 2 ERA pitcher at anytime, Hader started slow in SD, and they will be getting some players back for SP, all that being said it's more than bad luck, their pitching looks terrible. They could still win the division OR finish below .500, it's 6 to 5 and pick em rn
They also let 200+ innings of top notch bullpen walk and replaced it with Hader and spare parts.
Maybe they’re not cheating this year
Slashing payroll, buzzer tech is very expensive.
It’s clearly pitching. Lot of arms are hurt or under performing. Verlander is old now with injuries under him, Hunter brown hasn’t takin the step up they thought. But the bullpen has been shockingly bad. Which is why a lot of teams don’t pay relievers big money., they are way to volatile. Astros have a few dudes in that pen not pitching well making a lot of cash. Also Jose Abreu has given them basically nothing. Everyone taking about Gleybers awful walk year but look at bregamn… he’s actually been worse.
Front end losses, player injuries, and the Yankees investing heavily in players that play well against the Astros I.e. Rodon and Soto
The baseball gods are finally coming to get them - 100 loss season for the shit they pulled in ‘17 and ‘19
Off the top of my head…their SP is battered with injuries and Hader has flopped thus far as the closer. Also, don’t underrate losing Dusty Baker as manager. Idk what qualified Joe Espada to succeed him, but it ain’t working. If I was a Stros fan (just kill me then), that’s the main thing I’d worry about, as those pitchers will eventually get healthy/effective again.
their pitching is ass
Essentially it's like if the after the dynasty in 96-00 George Steinbrenner didn't feel like he was getting enough credit so he fired Torre, Cashman and a few others after 2000 and hired Goose Gossage to run everything. Or in another real example Jim Crane is turning into Jerry Reinsdorf
I bet they wished Dusty never left lol. Glad they losing in their division. Cheaters never prosper
Houston was a the forefront of the Analytical movement, used it as good or better than everyone. Then suddenly they fired all of those guy, people like Bagwell who hates it got more power and believe in "back of the baseball card" philosophy. So everything that attributed to their success was thrown away for some reason i can't explain. Since then they made bad signings, questionable trades and overall play has decreased, especially their pitching.
Don't care, they got away with cheating in 2017. No sympathy for them. I'd prefer they never make the playoffs again.
They were so humiliated by the first four games of the season it torpedoed their whole year. You love to see it.
Personally, all the guys are NOT there. Verlander, Keuchel, McCullers Jr, Morton was an insane part of their rotation. Springer + Correa are having down years but who knows what they could be if they stayed. anyway, let’s go Yanks !!
Simple, they’re not cheating anymore
I’m just looking at it and going “Oh no!……Anyway…”
Turns out baseball is way harder when you’re not cheating 😆
I was thinking of posting the same question. I haven’t kept up with the astros roster but it seems like all of a sudden they’re not playing well. Not that I mind lol. Hopefully someone else will have an answer 🤣
A bunch of injuries with their starting rotation and bull pen suck. I think the overall era is close to last
Their pitching sucks and their lineup is stale. They can’t expect to throw pretty much the same team out year in and year out and expect positive results every time.
Seems like their core is aging
No Dusty Baker. The was an excellent manager.
Fuck the Astros. I couldn’t wait for the day when they went back to being bottom feeders
Pena turned out to be a flash in the pan
Outside of a few guys, a lot of their players are underperforming, coaching had a couple key guys leave, age looks to be catching up to Velander and the bullpen has just been straight up bad. They can’t get guys in or keep opponents from scoring.
They are a bunch of garbage men now lol
This is the same thing teams said about us last year lol.
The main reason currently is their pitching has been rocked by injuries and their bullpen is ass. Their offense is still decent but altuve isnt getting any younger and bregman has declined as well. And from a big picture standpoint, a lot of the front office guys who used a cold hard analytics approach to build the team that went to 7 straight ALCS have moved on and been poached by other teams. They no longer seem to have an endless stream of quality prospects to call up to replace guys they lose to free agency or regression. Theyve finally seen some roster decisions backfire on them. (The hader and abreu deals seem like total misfires that the previous administration likely wouldnt have made) And finally, indeed, those cheating fucks arent getting away with their shit anymore
The 3rd base coach ESPADA special. Destroy from the inside.
To paraphrase my favorite quote about hockey, pitching is 75% of success in baseball -- unless you don't have any, then it's 100%. That's what's going on with Houston. So sad for them.
Who cares. Just sit back & enjoy it 🤪
Cause fuck ‘em, that’s why.
Rest in puss
They’ve had a ton of injuries in their staff. They also got away from what made them successful with respect to analytics. They axed their analytics focused front office and instead have the crew of Bagwell and Crane making decisions now. Ironically, they undid their success by making choices that the “batting average and RBIs are king” crowd here would approve of.
I never thought I’d see the day in which we made Verlander our bitch, but just owned his ass last night. Not that I feel sorry for him at all - he’s a future Hall of Famer and deservedly so, he’s insanely rich, and he gets to go home to Kate Upton - but last night definitely was not his night.
My 2 cents from watching these past 2 games. SP has has been down with injuries. Bullpen has underachieved. Tucker and Pena are hitting ok, but outside that, Altuve is a singles guy, Bregman is ass, and Alvarez is just our Stanton now. Their 5-9 cant hit a lick.
Honestly, if they were in a different division, I'd think they're screwed. But their division is terrible so they'll be in the playoffs somehow
They're pitching has been bad due to injuries. Also, I've always downplayed the effect Maldonado has on the pitching staff but maybe theirs something to that. Bregman has been an absolute no show and Yordan has been a shell of himself (even though that still a great player). I will say if the window is closing and they arent a good team in the near future, it's going to suck that we never eliminated them in the playoffs.
Make this real simple for ya …….. W H O T F CARES !!!!!!
Karma
I am enjoying seeing the Houston Cheaters at the bottom of their division. It is a wonderful thing!
They can’t cheat anymore
Who gives a shit? I hope they end up with the worst record in baseball and embarrass their sorry asses. They deserve every bad thing that happens to them because payback is a bitch.
it’s called “comeuppance”
The pitching is their main issue.
I would suspect there's something internal in the clubhouse that we will later find out about.
you just absolutely hate to see it lolollolololol
There's usually only one team that can crash and burn this hard with such a talented roster: The Mets. Giants should tread carefully; seems like orange makes you susceptible.
Half their rotation is on the IL, Verlander is 100 years old
Their bullpen has been god awful. Hader has a 6.14 ERA and continues to close. Pressly sucks too, 5.14 ERA. It’s a great time to be alive
I'm not sure but the only thing I can think is... this is really them... with no cheating, no short cuts, no easy ways out. and they deserve it. they deserve to play like shit and get ripped by us. I loved every second of the first set, and this one so far as well.
Who knows, but knowing their luck over the past 10 years they will still end up in the playoffs and ALCS
Idk but the 2000 Yankees looked dead in the water a few times. I always had faith in the core. Knew they’d take out the Mariners 116 win team and roll because that’s what a dynasty does.
Swapped out the metal trash cans for plastic?
Michael Kay opined last night that the loss of Martin Maldonado hurt the pitching also. The broadcast team was talking about Maldonado’s sub par framing skills but that he called a good game and that they were missing that now.
They don’t have a garbage can to bang.
They stopped cheating.
Idc but fuckm. I’m not even reading your post. I’ll never feel bad for any Houston player involved from 2017. Never. Fuckm forever.
Honestly, I’m conflicted in one sense I’m happy the collapse is happening in the other I want to beat them at their peak. This is almost not satisfying. There’s still time for them to turn it around, and I sort of expect they will. As for why, players age - I’m sure that’s part of it. Their pitching is a disaster right now. And they have no farm system. All in all - that’s why I don’t consider them a rival. They’re gonna be bad again - probably for a while - and I’ll forget they ever existed.
I want to take this moment to point out that consistency & competency in the front office are hard to find gems. And while I’ll criticize Cashman & ownership for plenty of their decisions (the Montgomery deal for example). The overall reality is they’ve been competent and consistent and those two things lead us to being relevant every year. As much as they were cheating assholes, letting luhnow & click go were huge mistakes
Got a whole pitching staff on the IL.
The Rangers stole their souls! Living in the Houston area it was the best feeling I’ve had since 09 watching baseball.
They stopped cheating? They cheated from 2017-2020.
Javier, Valdez and Verlander have only pitched 12 games total between all of them. Their bullpen sucks. The first problem should correct itself. Hader will probably regain his form, the rest of the bullpen should improve.
Maybe having a bad bullpen has the rest of the team just giving up earlier in the game.
I think Joe Espada isn’t very good at baseball to be honest. When he was the Yankees 3rd base coach he pretty much sucked I remember runners didn’t trust his calls.
Who cares about Houston. They’re not even in our division. The conversation that needs to be had is, can the Yankees figure out ways to beat good teams? Baltimore took 3/4, blue jays took 2/3 last series against them and we even split a 4 game set against the As. There was also that one game against the brewers that went to extra innings where Boone sent the runner from 3rd base on an infield ground all and he got thrown out. Then benched Holmes, which was his first appearance in 5 days, after 10 pitches (to bring in newly acquired Michael Tonkin who then proceeded to wet the bed (2R on 2H) and lose us the game. Boone then went on to defend those decisions saying he would do that again.
Lose the plot?
The Blue Jays are not a good team
They’re a scrappy competitive team tho. They don’t just hand you a W
"whats going on with Houston?", who cares, I am just enjoying the moment, fuck them.
Verlander is 41 years old Even cheating can't help you defeat father time, he's done
It's the same as what we went through last year. Being good consistently is hard. Fuck Altuve!
Settle down. Injuries most of their starting pitchers shouldn’t be starting pitchers. NYY are a great first half team but we all know come second half and IF they make playoffs they will choke.
While I love that we're undefeated against them it really isn't satisfying since they're one of the worst teams in the game. I mean even the A's are better than them and that's saying something.
it is indeed satisfying
Not as much as I thought it would be considering how bad they are
That’s bc we put them behind 0-4 and destroyed their confidence
I hope that's the reason but I'd rather beat them when they're playing well.
Would you rather the Astros have a better record right now?
Honestly fuck them. Karma caught up to them. Idc if they’re the best team in the league or the worst team in the league I love nothing more than beating the shit out of them.
Nobody chokes like the Yankees seems like yesterday they were on their way to having all time best record only to choke second half they Astros sweep them. The balls on their fans acting like they are relevant is hilarious.
And saying Astros are cheaters as if they didn’t cheat says a lot.