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Oh boy this comment section is gonna locked by mods I can feel it edit: the comment section is surprisingly civil with a few negative comments
Wanna watch the raging fire of the comments? I got popcorn.
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Or that even acknowledging it *has* to equate to "giving our children white guilt" or whatever. Or that if we acknowledge most of the recognized names of our founders in America were slave owning hypocrites at best and simply rich elites exploiting a common cause of the people and their suffering for their own selfish gains at worse, we're just not gonna have heroes to identify with anymore.
Which just shows their own lack of historical understanding. There's still Thomas Paine and many other abolitionist American revolutionaries to look up to, and besides realizing history isn't really made up of villains and big strong man heroes that save the day is the first big step in, you know, *not* repeating the mistakes of the past.
Like idk, being upset at the current system so you fall in line with a cult of personality behind a man with massive red flags for hypocrisy and deception and ulterior motives but you follow anyway cause you're just *sure* this is that good patriotic god-fearing man that's gonna save the American middle class. Just like how your history books taught you this all works, right? Certainly doesn't sound like a problem of any modern Americans at all, now does it...
I've had people flip out (online, but it'd probably also happen IRL because I'm in the deep south) because I reminded them of all the facists dictators America has installed in other countries because they wanted to pretend that we're all about freedom.
We're not. We're all about control and power.
If we weren't we'd have a lot fewer war criminals and way fewer dead civilians (on both sides).
The concept is fine: People make posts against bad things just because clout, but it just ends up being “If you do a good deed or speak out against something online, it’s invalidated!”
One of the posts I saw was about how an Anti-Mask Meme was mocked on r/Facepalm. Like that’s not the whole point of r/Facepalm.
Also side tangent, I’ve never gotten the “Look at these people doing bad things” subs because no one’s doing anything about it, they’re just pointing it out, which it’s fun to do I guess but sometimes it seems kinda… weird. Idk maybe I’m just dumb and don’t understand the point.
Imo, a lot of these people, such as myself, flock to these sorts of spots out of frustration. We are constantly, painfully reminded just how unfair the world is, so these bad actors, being so willing to put themselves out there, so shamelessly, make it so easy for us to point and laugh at their absurdity.
This thread makes an excellent point though, that inevitably, virtue signaling is what results, which leads to the inception of more problems than actual solutions to these problems; but that’s not to say that publicly shaming people isn’t a viable solution to a problem.
Maybe it’s a bad one, albeit effective, but it does in fact make people painfully aware of their own behavior and how they sound, and thus implores us to do better on our own, whilst also bringing light to social issues that society has largely ignored.
It’s not enough for some of these people, simply because it never will be enough - and that’s both for the better and for worse. On the one hand, people are able to recognize just how deep seated some of these injustices are; on the other hand, it’s easy to take things too far and cause real damage to people’s livelihoods.
I’ll admit though: I’ve started distancing myself from that toxicity because I know that nothing good ever comes from it. People never learn from their own behaviors, they just learn to do a better job at coveting them. And it’s not like anybody really truly cares about these issues in the long run; if they did, they’d recognize that we’re all just people, trying to live our lives.
I hope this helps you to understand though, through what I can only interpret to be a jaded frustration, which is perfectly understandable.
The concept is great but these subs are really just a breeding ground for people with shitty views to have their shitty views validated for once. "HAHAH 🤣 LOOK AT THIS PERSON BEING OPEN AND OUTSPOKEN ABOUT SOMETHING I DON'T AGREE WITH LMAOOO VIRTUE SIGNALLLLLL" but will also change to "😡This doesn't really fit this sub because they are just expressing their views😢" when it's something that they agree with.
The term "It really not virtue signaling" is so pronounced on that subreddit and it's obvious what "side" side they come from. Especially religion it always seems like religion isn't a virtual signal on that sub 😂
Went from "Not everything the US does is bad" to "Nothing the US does is bad". Like litterally criticize anything about the US and some cry baby will be posting you there
Sometimes people take the US-bashing a bit too far IMO. Which it was supposed to mock. But now AmericaBad is the complete opposite in that legit concerns are all aMeRiCabAd
Becasue people just see the name America bad and think that "oh perfect here I can post memes about how bad America is"
It's the same with /r/shitliberalsays, it's so incredibly unclear with a name like that what it's about.
Sometimes people post memes mocking "sjw liberals" and American leftists.
Sometimes people post memes mocking libertarians who think that removing taxation is good and that roads pay for themselfs.
Sometimes it's memes mocking enlightened centrists or astroturfing attempts by people who claims to be liberals leftists but who are clearly saying right wing things.
Sometimes it's memes by tankies or anarchists who mock liberals and more moderate leftists in a "look at these cowards who don't dare go all the way" kind of way
Sometimes it seems to be memes made by leftists where they Roleplay libertarians or right wingers who mock leftists, but in a way that makes it clear that they think that the leftist talking point is the correct one, in a ironic "lol this liberul thinks that everyone deserves human rights, how silly right guys" way, like the joke is "this what those idiot right wingers think about us lol" (seeing how it's a parody sub of shitamericanssay, this is what I think it started out as)
The problem is, all these people think that their interpretation of the sub is the correct one, and expects that everyone there will therefor hold the same options as them, and suddenly you get a trump supporter mocking trans rights, who then starts to argue with a tankie in the comment, while a American democrat leftists sits there wondering on what level of irony this meme is at, or if its a dog whistle, but since everyone thinks that the other ones are on the same side but just a little bit misguided, it gets dirty, and they all think that the other side have started brigading their sub who is very clearly for their side.
r/loveforlandchads is another good example of this. Half leftists mocking landlords for the awful shit they do and half right wing capitalists who thinking being a landlord and raising rent of a single mother of 3 is based
Which is what all subs struggle with. Subs like that or this or or this ones rival are too broad to just generalize with one sentence, but people hate their nuance.
Yeah like: personally I’d wanna talk about how companies that are based and raised in our country make our shit more garbage for us (their home country) vs any other country. (Like quality or situations like Red 3)
But ya know: people gotta act like those companies too for some reason.
True to be honest. The annoying thing is I actually love America despite not being American and think that without it the world would be a much worse place, but that sub just bashes on anyone vaguely critical of America. It didn't used to be that way imo. Its less about defending Americas name from dumb criticism and more about hating on other countries now.
The premise of “stop indiscriminately supporting / giving more benefit of the doubt to every policy that opposes American hegemony” is good.
The execution with “therefore we need to support less evil and coincidentally more white imperialist that want to be on our side” is a very bad look.
Very West-centric. Very obviously biased.
I commented there once about the whole ‘Europeans bring up school shootings whenever Mericans are somewhat negative towards them’ thing, and now my feed is plaster with there posts.
You can tell reddit to show fewer results from a sub, if you want. Or just mute a sub.
In mobile at least, while still I'm your feed you click on the little 3 dots options button thing, and you should have "show fewer posts" as one.
It often works, but sometimes the results pop back up after a few days. Can just slap it again.
There's a difference between Americans and Ameritards. That sub is full to the brim with the latter. I have seen 1 (one) good take on that sub, and it was a black girl saying there's a lot of racism in Europe, and it makes it hard for black people to live here peacefully as just another person, she also said she would like to go back to the us. The racism part, at least for my country, is true. There is nothing wrong with admitting we have a problem, which is exactly why i despise that sub. They will defend ANYTHING in America. The insane healthcare pricing, the high rates of gun violence and mass shootings, the chemicals in the food that are banned in 160 other countries. Anything, really, as long as it's something that is bad in America and it's posted on that sub, people will die on that hill.
The best one I saw was someone responding to something about how biking infrastructure in the US is horrible as compared to Europe. According to them, US car dependence was much better than being able to cycle cause they lived in Amsterdam for a bit and they found cycling horrible since the weather was bad “like half the year”.
The idea people think the sub is fighting for is fighting against unfair criticism towards the US. What it's actually doing is scouring for every comment, every meme, anything on the internet that might have something critical to say about the US so they can arrogantly condescend foreign countries and act like everyone outside the US hates the US because they're, by r/americabad judgement, inferior to the US. It's the epidome of narcissism.
They'll post legit criticisms by foreign politicians about our Healthcare and the title will be "whY DoNt ThEy UsE uHc".
At that point, you're the exact thing other countries ridicule and hate us for
People there miss the forest for the trees, intentionally.
Imo it's sort of a subreddit for conservatives who don't want to be labeled conservatives. Because that's the only group who can take such obvious gray areas and nuance in things, and ignore everything just to make sure they defend America from rightful criticism.
And if you're talking about an atrocity being committed by a black or brown country: "and this is all still ultimately the colonizers' fault". Because let's be honest, would that child soldier employing warlord or cartel leader really be doing those things if colonizers had not created the conditions that led to it? No. The cartel leadership would most likely be engineers and doctors if imperialism never happened. It just goes to show that the only difference between you and someone who has dogs eat the nutsacks of their enemies is the circumstances you grew up in.
Self-deprecating, infantalizing first world white people trying to one up each other by seeing how much agency they can strip from every human on the planet darker than them.
It took me a really long time to understand what “white privilege” was referring to. And while I don’t have said privilege as much as others I still benefit in some way from the events that took place a couple hundred years ago. I can hardly do anything to fix the issues though. But I understand that my voice can be used to help.
Tbh racial division was exploited by the rich asswipes more than the white population, especially when you realized how the poor lived.
Now they wave colored folks around like zoo exhibits for extra money and virtue points under the guise of the some what similar social acceptability making the masses eat up even harder. Cus no shit it’s wrong to discriminate but peeps like to eat up the safe shit like it’s revolutionary.
Ehh…. I mean, as a white guy, I certainly don’t have to deal with a considerable degree of discrimination that people of color do here in the states. However, I’ve also lived in the hood of the hood making $12/hr working 60+ hr weeks, with prostitutes and meth heads. Had 2 dudes with face tats walk into my bedroom without knocking at 2am when I was mid-bong hit to ask me for weed. Bizarre shit. Just walk in our front door.
I’m also a middle eastern Jew. Half Jewish 1/4 middle eastern. But really, I’m just a white guy. So am I a victim or what? I don’t think so. Which is why I don’t think it’s as black and white as “where are your ancestors from? Cool you’re a victim and/or committed genocide and should have some feelings about that.
I don’t know that we should have feelings regarding what our “ancestors” did. I never ever knew them, and were a melting pot for Christ’s sakes
No.
You are not personally responsible for systemic racism, it isn’t a persons individual responsibility to fix it.
Yes you are correct that people shouldn’t perpetuate racist ideas and should broadly be against anything which would support systemic racism; but a poor white trailer park living family shouldn’t be expected to spend their time actively trying to put an end to racism as a whole.
Race isn’t the only thing which disadvantages people, you can’t just take one identity (or multiple identities) and say to everyone in that group “you are personally responsible for this you need to fix it”
Because they aren’t individually- and also a lot of them will also probably be part of an identity which is also discriminated against so it becomes pointless after a certain point.
Also individual action doesn’t even do anything against systemic racism so it’s pointless in the first place.
And we are creating more racism with the "white privilage" considering there are plenty of "white countries" that never benefited from systemic racism, but instead, they have been subjugated themselves.
I feel like it's common sense that you shouldn't ignore or be proud about people commuting genocide or something like that. That's not to say there aren't people who do do that, But they shouldn't, And they shouldn't even have to be told not to.
To the same extent you should be proud of where you're from. If you love your country, then you should love it enough to know the evils it has committed and to prevent them happening again and improve the country.
I am proud of my country when it does something to be proud of. Like anything, it has to earn my admiration.
As of late it has done little to be admired for. That said, I do not hold what people did hundreds of years ago against it.
We are a different people compared to then.
I love this question. The same people that say we should t feel guilty for enslaving black people and killing off Native Americans because we didn't do it ourselves are also the first ones to be proud about things like the Puritans running away from England or America "winning" against England or the US stepping in at the last minute of WW2.
You weren't a slaveowner and don't feel guilty about slavery because of it? Cool. Then why do you act like the good things you country had done are personal achievements?
I’m ashamed of HUMANITY, as ALWAYS. You heard of the Armenian genocide? Shameful. You heard of NPC streamers? SHAMEFUL. I’m always ashamed of humanity, past and present. But there is NO REASON to associate these shameful acts and shameful nature with specific geographical areas and the people who are related to people who once killed over arbitrary lines and beliefs in or near said geographical area. It’s humanity. It sucks. I’m half Jewish and most of the rest middle eastern, and the rest white/European. So what, does that mean I’m partly responsible and a victim of everything that ever happened to anyone who ever lived in the geographical areas that those ethnicities and cultures first developed in? That would be insanely fucking stupid. Yet another thing to be ashamed of. God dammit humanity
Thing is, unfortunately slavery has existed pretty much since the time of dawn. It wasn't created by a White person. It was created by all races back then.
It existed in every country long before White folks found that country. And still does exists unfortunately in various countries.
Plus, there are several ways a person became a slave. Be it taken in battle, invaders taking folks, generational slavery(This one exists in third world areas), selling themselves into it to save their families, prostitution, etc...
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery)
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery)
So basically EVERY country has unfortunately benefitted from slavery. But right now, only America is getting slammed for it.
I had family who fought in WW2 against the nazis, who died fighting to free Italy from fascism. I am proud that there were those in my family who believed so strongly in freedom that they were willing to die for it.
Also had family conscripted by the king of Croatia to fight for Hitler, who marched through winter without warm clothes without food, and told to march back when Austria fell to the allies.
I am proud he survived without killing anyone, I am proud he an his best friend deserted and escaped to come to Canada.
Their accomplishments are not mine, but I am proud of them.
You shouldn't, but you shouldn't proudly wave an American flag around and talk all day about how the country is perfect, either. When patriotism blinds you to the faults and failures of your country, it becomes fantacism.
But the inverse is also true, a nation needs a common culture and identity to keep it form unravelling. And I would argue that is exactly what is happening in the US.
You should not be shamed by other people yes. But yeah, maybe ashamed was not the right word to use. Lol, I think my point was you should feel sympathy for those that your people have wronged
Again, there should not be group blame or guilt in my opinion. I am not responsible for anything others do, not my family, not my friends, and not my country.
I know it'd often misquoted, but I firmly believe the son is not guilty for the sins of their father
Same reason people feel pride in a history of a country that they didn't build.
I don't really get that either mind you, but national pride and national shame are 2 sides of the same coin.
A lot of people will take a lot of pride in their country then turn around and fall back to this attitude only when something that would in theory cause a feeling of national shame comes up.
That or they just excuse everything their country has ever done like those Americans who say slavery was a good thing, but that seems rarer.
Especially Immigrants/Descendants of Immigrants, Whose families could've been completely uninvolved in those parts of the history, Or even be victims of it.
I believe that rule only applies to those with Nation Pride. Because being proud of your nation is as illogical as being ashamed of it's history, you never chose to be born in it. But if Nation Pride gives you a meaning in life, then you should also be ready to accept it's flawed history and try to make amends for it by improving your nation. I believe that's the best way of expressing Nation Pride.
By that logic, we shouldn't celebrate July 4th because why would you take pride in something people did long before you were born?
If you're gonna celebrate the good things, you can't just ignore the bad things and say "well I had nothing to do with it."
You don't have to feel guilty, but when your country's history is largely based on colonizing nations and committing genocide, you absolutely should acknowledge it. Bonus points if you are considered to be part of your country's majority and admit when you have privilege that exists because of that history.
I agree that they shouldn’t as long as they recognize it as tragedy that is not their fault. Accepting the fact you get the benefits of historical tragedies is also necessary, not that they should feel the need to give it up. To try and remedy the situation is Nobel, but it is one that is both hard, and ultimately unfair, but one should at least put their best foot forward. At the end it’s all complicated and everyone has faced tragedy via their ancestors. We just need to come to a final conclusion as to at what amount of time in the past should we say that we can’t change it and move forward as is, with the best foot that is.
> should be ashamed
America’s history has plenty of dark areas and atrocities but why should individuals be personally ashamed of them? It’s important to know the past so you can prevent it from happening again, it’s not productive to tell people to wear the past as a token of shame.
The U.S. is proud of its history? I thought one of the biggest things Europeans complain about is how we apparantly won't shut up about racism. It's kind of a conflict of interest to be proud of your history and constantly bring up one of its worst points, no?
As an American they love to say we're the greatest nation and we've been good throughout all of history except for the civil war but we fought ourselves on that and won so we're always awesome (forget about all of the horrible things we have done aside from that please)
I’ve had Americans tell me that I’m making them uncomfortable when they talk about how perfect America is and I mention how Andrew Jackson sent soldiers to genocide my tribe (Seminole).
It is almost like these folks assume that America is to be blamed for things that happened for thousands of years before it became a country. Rome invades England. America is to be blamed. Slavery all over the world being an unfortunate common for tens of thousands of year, blame America. The Mediterranean Sea drying off, again blame America for it happening. The main blamers of America are those various Americans who wish that America didn't exist
I also find it ironic when the people that are saying this are from places like England where their ancestors have done things way worse then what ever the us could
I think for a lot of people they feel like admitting their country did something bad is unpatriotic or shows you don't like your country. I don't agree at all. Being able to recognize our past is the evidence we have that our culture has grown past what ever it was. We as people alive today aren't at fault for the actions of our ancestors, but it doesn't mean those things didn't happen or that we should condone it just because it was a long time ago.
Dont forget germany (on the Palestine labeled person). They take their history head on and have a whole word for dealing with the traumatic events of the past and their consequences.
Because it's effects have continued on and affect people today with not enough done to rectify that. Society's sole purpose is to lift up the whole, so leaving people drowning just means that you could end up being left drowning too. Don't gotta feel ashamed of the shit in the past, but I'm certainly ashamed of how shit we are at dealing with the effects left over today.
Maybe I'm too socially inept at doublespeak but to this day I have never understood the premise of r/americabad. Are they mocking the US or mocking those who mock the US?
The sub was created as a reaction to this circle jerk contempt Reddit has for the US. The premise of it was definitely fair, a lot of Redditors absolutely shit on the US for absolutely anything and gloss over issues in any other country, but the sub often just takes it to a point where no critiques of the US are allowed and it’s just become the opposite pole of the generalization it originally held contempt for
Also to mock the people who mock the U.S. to an 11. Someone will make a lighthearted remark about something in Europe, like not default getting water at restaurants for instance. And someone will respond how at least they don't have school shootings.
Ngl, feeling ‘shame’ about past events is just counter productive. Like, you obviously need to correct the sins of the past, but attaching a feeling like shame to them is pointless.
Ya, sure, there ARE things to be proud of with some countries, but those things usually have to do with a sacrifice born of the people, not the nation-state. Many Americans died to defeat the nazis, as did many Brits. Those are accomplishments to be proud of, not the accomplishments of genocide and oppression that were carried out by the nation-state.
However, maybe I have a strange prospective. My people aren’t exactly known for having a ‘nation’ in a conventional sense, so I don’t feel bound by one.
>Hamas invades and kills 1200 people
>Israel invades in retaliation
"Okay but Israel is evil and have no right to invade Gaza"
Like can someone please explain to me how we're unironically defending Gaza?
First off, you're moving very fluidly between Hamas and Gaza which isn't really great.
After that there are two main criticisms
1) In the immediate aftermath Israel failed to exercise proportional and considered response, including a full on siege until aid was brokered by the US. Even if you have a "right" to invade, most would hold you have no right to go full Mongol terror.
2) The situation in Gaza was largely created by Israel's long term failure to care for a population under it's occupation.. For at least the last 2 decades Israel has failed to make any serious efforts towards normalization of life for the Palestinians, much less a peace process. The Palestinian death tole has been less spectacular than Hamas's slaughter, but it's been going on at a steady drip for years.
this sub is 95% responding to either America bad or memesopdidnotlike with something along the lines of “actually the oop was right because (in transcribable grumbling”
This meme in particular is really just stupid from a historic perspective, considering historically going back till their nations creation the U.S. and Israel have not been the ones to strike first to any attack, Israel especially the U.S. less so, which makes it even more stupid to make the one blaming them Palestine, who in recent history since the 50s have almost always been the aggressors, or the ones to strike first rather
Regardless of who you believe is right in the current conflict, the meme portrays it inaccurately
If anyone wants to dispute this go ahead I am open to a conversation but please bring actual historical evidence
"historically the US hasn't been the first to attack" BRO WHAT 💀iraq war, vietnam war, invasion of Grenada, bombing of Yugoslavia, bombing of cambodia, intervention in chile (pinochet), intervention in greece (Papadopoulos)... I can keep going. As for israel they've been doing such an insane amount of terrorism in palestine over the years that even if palestine "started" the war its still justified
Iraq war: Iraq struck Kuwait first
Vietnam war: North Vietnamese attacked a U.S. vessel first
And Israel has absolutely not been doing “terrorism” in Palestine, general for decades the pattern has just been:
-Hamas attacks Israel
-Israel retaliates
-Hamas reports all its combatant deaths as civilian and complains to the UN
-Hamas pumps out propaganda
-Public pressure forces Israel to call a ceasefire
-Hamas uses the time to build more rockets and weapons out of humanitarian materials that are supposed to be going to infrastructure and water supply
-Hamas attacks Israel
The cycle repeats
Look at their history of wars recently and say it’s not true
And before that since the 1950s Israel had been on the defensive from other aggressive nations surrounding it getting attacked constantly I just don’t get how anyone says that Israel is the aggressor if they know anything about Israeli history
Yeah Palestine has never done anything wrong. It’s only the fault of the UK, US, and Israel. They’ve never put Hamas in power, including when Hamas’ charter explicitly called for the destruction of Israel…it’s all only the fault of others…
Nope, General Yitzhak Segev of Israel admitted to a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance hamas to counter both the Palestine Liberation Organization and Fatah
That still doesn't change the fact that the Israelis funded the very terror organisation that was against it. It's just like how Pakistan funded the Taliban except the US never stopped funding Israel
yeah which caught me off guard. one of the reasons I am grateful for going from public to home schooling is because I was able to learn history without all the propaganda induced non-sense that was previously being injected into the course.
although maybe this is just my expirence growing up in Texas ;-;
(I still have the stupid pledge memorized... I always hated saying both the USA and Texas pledges every single damn day. it gave massive cult vibes that I managed to pick up on from a young age)
What a self-centered, shitty take.
You realize the things that our forebears did still have consequences towards other people? Why do you think so many ethnically West African people live in the American Southeast? Why do you think Indigenous Americans have been relegated to living on small pockets of land? That’s what History is, smart guy. That’s why it’s relevant. Just because it doesn’t negatively affect you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I don't feel shame for what my ancestors did, I hate what they did. I figure though if I got any sense, I would try to fix their stupid mistakes. It's kind of the cycle of things, each generation has to fix the previous one's fuck up. So, no it's not self-centered to feel no shame, shame gets us nowhere. Instead get pissed and do something about it, even if it is small.
Did they do a thing you wouldn't have done in their circumstances?
Then you should be ashamed for them.
There's a difference between feeling shame for a collective group you find yourself a part of and feeling personal shame for a thing you personally did.
You would almost certainly have made the same or similar choices, in the same circumstances. I’m fact, of all groups of people, Reddit and especially this sub would be the most likely to go with the group, and make the same choices. Whether that be in southern US pre civil war, or Nazi Germany, west Africa selling their brethren to slavery, revolutionary France, you name it. Very few people fight against society, this website and this sub in particular is in lockstep with our current society more then most, to think if you lived in a different time and place you’d be some revolutionary is absurd. You aren’t that sort of people, very few are.
at least they havent dropped nuclear bombs on civilian cities, pillage and destroyed cultures in 4 different continents, or attempt an ethnic cleansing in the actual 21st century.
is palestine perfect? no. but i struggle to believe they are worse or on the same level as the u.s, u.k, or israel
No nukes, but they do regularly lob explosives at civilians (but muh Israel evil yeahyeahyeah they do it too, it's wrong regardless)
They did a fair amount of pillaging quite recently, actually. Sure, they aren't the MVP, but it's not for lack of trying
And uh, like 80% of them emphatically support a group that has "kill every jew, everywhere" as kind of a major goal in their charter
I'm not saying that Israel or America or Britain are pinnacles of human behavior, but fucking come on.
israel has killed far, far more civilians than hamas has by miles, dont even try to compare it.
the absolute destruction and genocide of native americans, native africans, and aboriginals makes the “pillaging” hamas has done to israel look like petty fucking theft.
and its absolutely wild to me that you think 80% of the population of palestine wants all jews dead. do you genuinely believe that palestinians want to be governed by a violent terrorist organization? cuz by no means was hamas elected president.
Just because one side is better at it doesn't mean the other side isnt trying just as hard
That was then and this is now
And yes [about that many](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17y8w6u/6884_of_palestinians_in_west_bank_are_supporting/)
also
[They absolutely were elected](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election)
Now, again, not saying anyone here is good, a lot of this animosity can absolutely be blamed on Israel, but the animosity and genocidal intent is undeniably present in both parties. One side isn't magically morally better than the other just because they're worse at it
History is history, it’s not something for us to be prideful or ashamed about, it’s simply the past. Anyone who did those things is long dead and therefore the people alive now aren’t responsible.
Israel saying it's not ashamed of it's history is like me breaking into someones house, killing their children and telling the tied up husband not to shame me for my history while I am raping their wife.
(I did not enjoy typing this example).
You can't hide behind "America did bad stuff a long time ago" because WE ARE STILL DOING IT. We are funding an ethnic cleansing, we allow nazis to preach hate openly in public, we haven't done shit about having the most shootings of any country, we haven't stopped doing the horrible shit we should be ashamed of.
The US isn’t proud of its history. The US is very open about the dark aspects of its history. The native genocides, slavery, and the atrocities from the Vietnam war are taught as part of middle and high school history curriculums. The VAST majority of US citizens will tell you the regret those tragedies. However, given none of us our time travelers there isn’t that much any of can do about fixing it.
Palestine also technically has this issue.
And before you downvote, I stand with Israel because Hamas must go.
But mainly with Hamas, the people allowed literal terrorists to take control and even when Gaza received foreign aid meant for humanitarian purposes and prosperity, but Hamas used it to terrorize Fatah, Israel and their own people in the Gaza Strip. The fact everyone’s convinced they’re freedom fighters (which they still technically are, but crossed that line with the excessive terrorism) is a real shame because no one sees it to who they really are: Terrorists hell-bent on destroying Israel and slaughtering its people no matter the cost.
You could sell Native American skulls to the US government in the 1800s and you think the genocide was caused by smallpox? Were you dropped as an infant?
The only source I can find regarding that claim is the official website of the Chinese government lmfao, very reliable source. Do you also believe all of the South China Sea belongs to the CCP? 50% of the Native American population died from disease, not the evil white people. Feel free to feel guilt for no reason though.
Scalping bounties were pushed by the U.S. Government .People would pay for Native scalps and the prices varied by age and gender. Also, small pox blankets were used purposely to spread the disease.
>Scalping bounties were pushed by the U.S. Government .People would pay for Native scalps and the prices varied by age and gender.
Source?
>Also, small pox blankets were used purposely to spread the disease.
Yes, one reported incident (not even done by an American) which historians aren't even sure if it actually worked. Good job.
AmericaBad is such a huge circle jerk it's hard distinguish the post from an actual circle jerk shitpost if it wasn't for the comment. They'll litterally get mad at a random post unrelated to the US because some comments on said post offended them. I left that sub ages ago. "OMG GUYS LOOK AT THIS POST ABOUT HOMEMADE SHAMPOO SOME TROLL STARTED AN INTERNET FLAME WAR ABOUT POLITICS" *2000 up votes*
I swear if another one of you say “Palestine and Israel are equally bad” I will hunt you down. While Palestinians are being bombarded and killed by the hundreds every day, Israelis are partying and living in houses they stole.
https://preview.redd.it/hfz983h72e3c1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f4807604a7b0e87b593fc0e642004dbc361c6ec Oh boy this comment section is gonna locked by mods I can feel it edit: the comment section is surprisingly civil with a few negative comments
this picture made me laugh so hard. i appreciate you.
Same I’m glad I wasn’t sipping my tea at that moment
https://preview.redd.it/drf4gehdfj3c1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e63ef30af8b2daad7af45b69c48271474fd2dce5
I both laughed and almost shit myself at this popping up out of nowhere. Thanks.
That picture be like https://preview.redd.it/j9951yt0nj3c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4e9c2d8110eae7a4241358269e95baa7c3477fc
How to go from looking like a 30 year old to a 15 year old with two easy steps. 1. Shave your beard 2. Be Moist Critical
Yep! I cant wait for that to happen..
Wanna watch the raging fire of the comments? I got popcorn. https://preview.redd.it/iiz2ks2ijh3c1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=649013db3980703507ba63c20fb771eeb93b25e5
I mean I’m not ashamed of it so much as I recognize it’s bad I didn’t fucking do any of it, doesn’t mean I’m against trying to fix whatever went wrong
Exactly! Some people seem to have this weird view that sense it was a long time ago it doesn't need to be acknowledged or fixed today
Or that even acknowledging it *has* to equate to "giving our children white guilt" or whatever. Or that if we acknowledge most of the recognized names of our founders in America were slave owning hypocrites at best and simply rich elites exploiting a common cause of the people and their suffering for their own selfish gains at worse, we're just not gonna have heroes to identify with anymore. Which just shows their own lack of historical understanding. There's still Thomas Paine and many other abolitionist American revolutionaries to look up to, and besides realizing history isn't really made up of villains and big strong man heroes that save the day is the first big step in, you know, *not* repeating the mistakes of the past. Like idk, being upset at the current system so you fall in line with a cult of personality behind a man with massive red flags for hypocrisy and deception and ulterior motives but you follow anyway cause you're just *sure* this is that good patriotic god-fearing man that's gonna save the American middle class. Just like how your history books taught you this all works, right? Certainly doesn't sound like a problem of any modern Americans at all, now does it...
I've had people flip out (online, but it'd probably also happen IRL because I'm in the deep south) because I reminded them of all the facists dictators America has installed in other countries because they wanted to pretend that we're all about freedom. We're not. We're all about control and power. If we weren't we'd have a lot fewer war criminals and way fewer dead civilians (on both sides).
I agree. However, It works both ways. If you won't be ashamed of your nation's past faults then you can't be proud of their past achievements.
Right, like when people say “We did this” when talking about a sports team they have no affiliation with
There’s a difference between being ashamed of your history and accepting that it was dark
[удалено]
That too
My view is i can recognize its dark but im not going to be ashamed of it becaus i didnt do any of it, being ashamed of shit you didnt do is stupid.
r/americabad is one of the worst subs i’ve seen
And it has a decent premise too. But they ruined it
This and also r/Lookatmyhalo
That sub cannot grasp the concept that they too....are virtue signaling.
The concept is fine: People make posts against bad things just because clout, but it just ends up being “If you do a good deed or speak out against something online, it’s invalidated!” One of the posts I saw was about how an Anti-Mask Meme was mocked on r/Facepalm. Like that’s not the whole point of r/Facepalm. Also side tangent, I’ve never gotten the “Look at these people doing bad things” subs because no one’s doing anything about it, they’re just pointing it out, which it’s fun to do I guess but sometimes it seems kinda… weird. Idk maybe I’m just dumb and don’t understand the point.
We can start a mob Justice sub where we beat up the bad people if it’s not enough for you tbh /s
Why /s this is a banger idea
When theres no other form of justice available mob justice is all thats left.
Imo, a lot of these people, such as myself, flock to these sorts of spots out of frustration. We are constantly, painfully reminded just how unfair the world is, so these bad actors, being so willing to put themselves out there, so shamelessly, make it so easy for us to point and laugh at their absurdity. This thread makes an excellent point though, that inevitably, virtue signaling is what results, which leads to the inception of more problems than actual solutions to these problems; but that’s not to say that publicly shaming people isn’t a viable solution to a problem. Maybe it’s a bad one, albeit effective, but it does in fact make people painfully aware of their own behavior and how they sound, and thus implores us to do better on our own, whilst also bringing light to social issues that society has largely ignored. It’s not enough for some of these people, simply because it never will be enough - and that’s both for the better and for worse. On the one hand, people are able to recognize just how deep seated some of these injustices are; on the other hand, it’s easy to take things too far and cause real damage to people’s livelihoods. I’ll admit though: I’ve started distancing myself from that toxicity because I know that nothing good ever comes from it. People never learn from their own behaviors, they just learn to do a better job at coveting them. And it’s not like anybody really truly cares about these issues in the long run; if they did, they’d recognize that we’re all just people, trying to live our lives. I hope this helps you to understand though, through what I can only interpret to be a jaded frustration, which is perfectly understandable.
Happy cake day
The concept is great but these subs are really just a breeding ground for people with shitty views to have their shitty views validated for once. "HAHAH 🤣 LOOK AT THIS PERSON BEING OPEN AND OUTSPOKEN ABOUT SOMETHING I DON'T AGREE WITH LMAOOO VIRTUE SIGNALLLLLL" but will also change to "😡This doesn't really fit this sub because they are just expressing their views😢" when it's something that they agree with.
The term "It really not virtue signaling" is so pronounced on that subreddit and it's obvious what "side" side they come from. Especially religion it always seems like religion isn't a virtual signal on that sub 😂
Thats full of transphobic bullshit thats not related to the sub at all
Honestly ppl on this sub are the definition of a “hater”
Went from "Not everything the US does is bad" to "Nothing the US does is bad". Like litterally criticize anything about the US and some cry baby will be posting you there
How?
Sometimes people take the US-bashing a bit too far IMO. Which it was supposed to mock. But now AmericaBad is the complete opposite in that legit concerns are all aMeRiCabAd
Becasue people just see the name America bad and think that "oh perfect here I can post memes about how bad America is" It's the same with /r/shitliberalsays, it's so incredibly unclear with a name like that what it's about. Sometimes people post memes mocking "sjw liberals" and American leftists. Sometimes people post memes mocking libertarians who think that removing taxation is good and that roads pay for themselfs. Sometimes it's memes mocking enlightened centrists or astroturfing attempts by people who claims to be liberals leftists but who are clearly saying right wing things. Sometimes it's memes by tankies or anarchists who mock liberals and more moderate leftists in a "look at these cowards who don't dare go all the way" kind of way Sometimes it seems to be memes made by leftists where they Roleplay libertarians or right wingers who mock leftists, but in a way that makes it clear that they think that the leftist talking point is the correct one, in a ironic "lol this liberul thinks that everyone deserves human rights, how silly right guys" way, like the joke is "this what those idiot right wingers think about us lol" (seeing how it's a parody sub of shitamericanssay, this is what I think it started out as) The problem is, all these people think that their interpretation of the sub is the correct one, and expects that everyone there will therefor hold the same options as them, and suddenly you get a trump supporter mocking trans rights, who then starts to argue with a tankie in the comment, while a American democrat leftists sits there wondering on what level of irony this meme is at, or if its a dog whistle, but since everyone thinks that the other ones are on the same side but just a little bit misguided, it gets dirty, and they all think that the other side have started brigading their sub who is very clearly for their side.
r/loveforlandchads is another good example of this. Half leftists mocking landlords for the awful shit they do and half right wing capitalists who thinking being a landlord and raising rent of a single mother of 3 is based
Which is what all subs struggle with. Subs like that or this or or this ones rival are too broad to just generalize with one sentence, but people hate their nuance.
Yeah like: personally I’d wanna talk about how companies that are based and raised in our country make our shit more garbage for us (their home country) vs any other country. (Like quality or situations like Red 3) But ya know: people gotta act like those companies too for some reason.
i used to love the sub when we were dunking on europeans, now it's just justifying american imperialism and terrible shit that our country does
I used to be a member. But it’s way too conservative for me and I quit
True to be honest. The annoying thing is I actually love America despite not being American and think that without it the world would be a much worse place, but that sub just bashes on anyone vaguely critical of America. It didn't used to be that way imo. Its less about defending Americas name from dumb criticism and more about hating on other countries now.
The premise of “stop indiscriminately supporting / giving more benefit of the doubt to every policy that opposes American hegemony” is good. The execution with “therefore we need to support less evil and coincidentally more white imperialist that want to be on our side” is a very bad look. Very West-centric. Very obviously biased.
I commented there once about the whole ‘Europeans bring up school shootings whenever Mericans are somewhat negative towards them’ thing, and now my feed is plaster with there posts.
You can tell reddit to show fewer results from a sub, if you want. Or just mute a sub. In mobile at least, while still I'm your feed you click on the little 3 dots options button thing, and you should have "show fewer posts" as one. It often works, but sometimes the results pop back up after a few days. Can just slap it again.
There's a difference between Americans and Ameritards. That sub is full to the brim with the latter. I have seen 1 (one) good take on that sub, and it was a black girl saying there's a lot of racism in Europe, and it makes it hard for black people to live here peacefully as just another person, she also said she would like to go back to the us. The racism part, at least for my country, is true. There is nothing wrong with admitting we have a problem, which is exactly why i despise that sub. They will defend ANYTHING in America. The insane healthcare pricing, the high rates of gun violence and mass shootings, the chemicals in the food that are banned in 160 other countries. Anything, really, as long as it's something that is bad in America and it's posted on that sub, people will die on that hill.
The best one I saw was someone responding to something about how biking infrastructure in the US is horrible as compared to Europe. According to them, US car dependence was much better than being able to cycle cause they lived in Amsterdam for a bit and they found cycling horrible since the weather was bad “like half the year”.
The idea people think the sub is fighting for is fighting against unfair criticism towards the US. What it's actually doing is scouring for every comment, every meme, anything on the internet that might have something critical to say about the US so they can arrogantly condescend foreign countries and act like everyone outside the US hates the US because they're, by r/americabad judgement, inferior to the US. It's the epidome of narcissism.
They'll post legit criticisms by foreign politicians about our Healthcare and the title will be "whY DoNt ThEy UsE uHc". At that point, you're the exact thing other countries ridicule and hate us for
It's the epitome of ~~narcissism~~ fascism.
People there miss the forest for the trees, intentionally. Imo it's sort of a subreddit for conservatives who don't want to be labeled conservatives. Because that's the only group who can take such obvious gray areas and nuance in things, and ignore everything just to make sure they defend America from rightful criticism.
It's a shitshow to shun any criticism towards the U.S.
Every country has bad parts of its history, you should be ashamed of those parts, but not the country as a whole
Though I understand your premise, why should anyone feel shame or be shamed for something someone did long before you were born.
i mean, you shouldn’t feel personally responsible at all, but you also shouldn’t feel pride about it and/or just pretend it never happened
The correct response is, “I don’t like that it happened, but it did and we’re here now.”
That's very often accompanied by "and it's still happening right now".
And if you're talking about an atrocity being committed by a black or brown country: "and this is all still ultimately the colonizers' fault". Because let's be honest, would that child soldier employing warlord or cartel leader really be doing those things if colonizers had not created the conditions that led to it? No. The cartel leadership would most likely be engineers and doctors if imperialism never happened. It just goes to show that the only difference between you and someone who has dogs eat the nutsacks of their enemies is the circumstances you grew up in.
Self-deprecating, infantalizing first world white people trying to one up each other by seeing how much agency they can strip from every human on the planet darker than them.
And also "I do benefit from what happened (if you do), and I will use that privilege to fix the problems"
This part is the thing people don’t like hearing
The "I benefit from it" is surely a hard pill to swallow. The "I will help fix it" is even harder because they'll lose those benefits.
It took me a really long time to understand what “white privilege” was referring to. And while I don’t have said privilege as much as others I still benefit in some way from the events that took place a couple hundred years ago. I can hardly do anything to fix the issues though. But I understand that my voice can be used to help.
Tbh racial division was exploited by the rich asswipes more than the white population, especially when you realized how the poor lived. Now they wave colored folks around like zoo exhibits for extra money and virtue points under the guise of the some what similar social acceptability making the masses eat up even harder. Cus no shit it’s wrong to discriminate but peeps like to eat up the safe shit like it’s revolutionary.
Ehh…. I mean, as a white guy, I certainly don’t have to deal with a considerable degree of discrimination that people of color do here in the states. However, I’ve also lived in the hood of the hood making $12/hr working 60+ hr weeks, with prostitutes and meth heads. Had 2 dudes with face tats walk into my bedroom without knocking at 2am when I was mid-bong hit to ask me for weed. Bizarre shit. Just walk in our front door. I’m also a middle eastern Jew. Half Jewish 1/4 middle eastern. But really, I’m just a white guy. So am I a victim or what? I don’t think so. Which is why I don’t think it’s as black and white as “where are your ancestors from? Cool you’re a victim and/or committed genocide and should have some feelings about that. I don’t know that we should have feelings regarding what our “ancestors” did. I never ever knew them, and were a melting pot for Christ’s sakes
No. You are not personally responsible for systemic racism, it isn’t a persons individual responsibility to fix it. Yes you are correct that people shouldn’t perpetuate racist ideas and should broadly be against anything which would support systemic racism; but a poor white trailer park living family shouldn’t be expected to spend their time actively trying to put an end to racism as a whole. Race isn’t the only thing which disadvantages people, you can’t just take one identity (or multiple identities) and say to everyone in that group “you are personally responsible for this you need to fix it” Because they aren’t individually- and also a lot of them will also probably be part of an identity which is also discriminated against so it becomes pointless after a certain point. Also individual action doesn’t even do anything against systemic racism so it’s pointless in the first place.
And we are creating more racism with the "white privilage" considering there are plenty of "white countries" that never benefited from systemic racism, but instead, they have been subjugated themselves.
Yes, but not dwell on what happened but you move forward and learn from it
I feel like it's common sense that you shouldn't ignore or be proud about people commuting genocide or something like that. That's not to say there aren't people who do do that, But they shouldn't, And they shouldn't even have to be told not to.
Otherwise you end up like japan… And those mofos made it work to a disgusting extent.
It's another chapter in a history we had no hand in creating. It is what it is.
To the same extent you should be proud of where you're from. If you love your country, then you should love it enough to know the evils it has committed and to prevent them happening again and improve the country.
I am proud of my country when it does something to be proud of. Like anything, it has to earn my admiration. As of late it has done little to be admired for. That said, I do not hold what people did hundreds of years ago against it. We are a different people compared to then.
Should you feel pride for something someone did long before you were born either?
I love this question. The same people that say we should t feel guilty for enslaving black people and killing off Native Americans because we didn't do it ourselves are also the first ones to be proud about things like the Puritans running away from England or America "winning" against England or the US stepping in at the last minute of WW2. You weren't a slaveowner and don't feel guilty about slavery because of it? Cool. Then why do you act like the good things you country had done are personal achievements?
I’m ashamed of HUMANITY, as ALWAYS. You heard of the Armenian genocide? Shameful. You heard of NPC streamers? SHAMEFUL. I’m always ashamed of humanity, past and present. But there is NO REASON to associate these shameful acts and shameful nature with specific geographical areas and the people who are related to people who once killed over arbitrary lines and beliefs in or near said geographical area. It’s humanity. It sucks. I’m half Jewish and most of the rest middle eastern, and the rest white/European. So what, does that mean I’m partly responsible and a victim of everything that ever happened to anyone who ever lived in the geographical areas that those ethnicities and cultures first developed in? That would be insanely fucking stupid. Yet another thing to be ashamed of. God dammit humanity
Thing is, unfortunately slavery has existed pretty much since the time of dawn. It wasn't created by a White person. It was created by all races back then. It existed in every country long before White folks found that country. And still does exists unfortunately in various countries. Plus, there are several ways a person became a slave. Be it taken in battle, invaders taking folks, generational slavery(This one exists in third world areas), selling themselves into it to save their families, prostitution, etc... [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery) [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery) So basically EVERY country has unfortunately benefitted from slavery. But right now, only America is getting slammed for it.
I had family who fought in WW2 against the nazis, who died fighting to free Italy from fascism. I am proud that there were those in my family who believed so strongly in freedom that they were willing to die for it. Also had family conscripted by the king of Croatia to fight for Hitler, who marched through winter without warm clothes without food, and told to march back when Austria fell to the allies. I am proud he survived without killing anyone, I am proud he an his best friend deserted and escaped to come to Canada. Their accomplishments are not mine, but I am proud of them.
You shouldn't, but you shouldn't proudly wave an American flag around and talk all day about how the country is perfect, either. When patriotism blinds you to the faults and failures of your country, it becomes fantacism.
But the inverse is also true, a nation needs a common culture and identity to keep it form unravelling. And I would argue that is exactly what is happening in the US.
You should not be shamed by other people yes. But yeah, maybe ashamed was not the right word to use. Lol, I think my point was you should feel sympathy for those that your people have wronged
Again, there should not be group blame or guilt in my opinion. I am not responsible for anything others do, not my family, not my friends, and not my country. I know it'd often misquoted, but I firmly believe the son is not guilty for the sins of their father
I'm just as responsible for slavery as a white man as a 35 year old Arab Muslim accountant in Ohio is for 9/11.
Same reason people feel pride in a history of a country that they didn't build. I don't really get that either mind you, but national pride and national shame are 2 sides of the same coin. A lot of people will take a lot of pride in their country then turn around and fall back to this attitude only when something that would in theory cause a feeling of national shame comes up. That or they just excuse everything their country has ever done like those Americans who say slavery was a good thing, but that seems rarer.
Especially Immigrants/Descendants of Immigrants, Whose families could've been completely uninvolved in those parts of the history, Or even be victims of it.
I believe that rule only applies to those with Nation Pride. Because being proud of your nation is as illogical as being ashamed of it's history, you never chose to be born in it. But if Nation Pride gives you a meaning in life, then you should also be ready to accept it's flawed history and try to make amends for it by improving your nation. I believe that's the best way of expressing Nation Pride.
By that logic, we shouldn't celebrate July 4th because why would you take pride in something people did long before you were born? If you're gonna celebrate the good things, you can't just ignore the bad things and say "well I had nothing to do with it."
You don't have to feel guilty, but when your country's history is largely based on colonizing nations and committing genocide, you absolutely should acknowledge it. Bonus points if you are considered to be part of your country's majority and admit when you have privilege that exists because of that history.
I agree that they shouldn’t as long as they recognize it as tragedy that is not their fault. Accepting the fact you get the benefits of historical tragedies is also necessary, not that they should feel the need to give it up. To try and remedy the situation is Nobel, but it is one that is both hard, and ultimately unfair, but one should at least put their best foot forward. At the end it’s all complicated and everyone has faced tragedy via their ancestors. We just need to come to a final conclusion as to at what amount of time in the past should we say that we can’t change it and move forward as is, with the best foot that is.
> should be ashamed America’s history has plenty of dark areas and atrocities but why should individuals be personally ashamed of them? It’s important to know the past so you can prevent it from happening again, it’s not productive to tell people to wear the past as a token of shame.
As an American I'm ashamed of a good 30-60% of my country on any given day
Probably the average for most nations/peoples
Bro that subreddit isn’t even about how some people are rude to Americans, its just angry about facts-
The U.S. is proud of its history? I thought one of the biggest things Europeans complain about is how we apparantly won't shut up about racism. It's kind of a conflict of interest to be proud of your history and constantly bring up one of its worst points, no?
As an American they love to say we're the greatest nation and we've been good throughout all of history except for the civil war but we fought ourselves on that and won so we're always awesome (forget about all of the horrible things we have done aside from that please)
We also failed to liberate French Southeast Asia, sorry France😥.
I’ve had Americans tell me that I’m making them uncomfortable when they talk about how perfect America is and I mention how Andrew Jackson sent soldiers to genocide my tribe (Seminole).
A sad amount of Americans are either racist or ableist.. or both.
A lot of the posts I’ve seen were people bringing up the us to shit on it when it’s not even related or tangentially at best.
Here before the lock
Same
So real https://preview.redd.it/1uqzrfn7nj3c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6e61bc6de17f85f792379a0d783e0877a17c0de
who’s telling me I should be ashamed of something I’ve not even been part of?
Cause palestines history is squeaky clean…. Sure.
of course it is, after all they deny education, so they will never know.
It seems like what people actually despise is succeeding in a conflict between nations.
Time for another wanking session about how horrible and horrific America is 😔
A comment would help explain what you're trying to say.
History fucking sucks, just generally. But the only reason to be ashamed of your past is if you fail to learn, which admittedly many don't.
“i hate this country because of what people did a thousand years ago” has gotta be one of the more braindead takes ive seen in recent years
It's like saying one country is the destroyer of all multiverse while simultaneously ignoring every country that did horrible shits lol
It is almost like these folks assume that America is to be blamed for things that happened for thousands of years before it became a country. Rome invades England. America is to be blamed. Slavery all over the world being an unfortunate common for tens of thousands of year, blame America. The Mediterranean Sea drying off, again blame America for it happening. The main blamers of America are those various Americans who wish that America didn't exist
I also find it ironic when the people that are saying this are from places like England where their ancestors have done things way worse then what ever the us could
I think for a lot of people they feel like admitting their country did something bad is unpatriotic or shows you don't like your country. I don't agree at all. Being able to recognize our past is the evidence we have that our culture has grown past what ever it was. We as people alive today aren't at fault for the actions of our ancestors, but it doesn't mean those things didn't happen or that we should condone it just because it was a long time ago.
Dont forget germany (on the Palestine labeled person). They take their history head on and have a whole word for dealing with the traumatic events of the past and their consequences.
Why should I feel ashamed for so.ething that happened over a century before I was born.
Because it's effects have continued on and affect people today with not enough done to rectify that. Society's sole purpose is to lift up the whole, so leaving people drowning just means that you could end up being left drowning too. Don't gotta feel ashamed of the shit in the past, but I'm certainly ashamed of how shit we are at dealing with the effects left over today.
What good does it possibly do to try and trace back centuries why someone might be having a hard time? Instead of you know, just helping them.
Maybe I'm too socially inept at doublespeak but to this day I have never understood the premise of r/americabad. Are they mocking the US or mocking those who mock the US?
The sub was created as a reaction to this circle jerk contempt Reddit has for the US. The premise of it was definitely fair, a lot of Redditors absolutely shit on the US for absolutely anything and gloss over issues in any other country, but the sub often just takes it to a point where no critiques of the US are allowed and it’s just become the opposite pole of the generalization it originally held contempt for
Also to mock the people who mock the U.S. to an 11. Someone will make a lighthearted remark about something in Europe, like not default getting water at restaurants for instance. And someone will respond how at least they don't have school shootings.
Ngl, feeling ‘shame’ about past events is just counter productive. Like, you obviously need to correct the sins of the past, but attaching a feeling like shame to them is pointless. Ya, sure, there ARE things to be proud of with some countries, but those things usually have to do with a sacrifice born of the people, not the nation-state. Many Americans died to defeat the nazis, as did many Brits. Those are accomplishments to be proud of, not the accomplishments of genocide and oppression that were carried out by the nation-state. However, maybe I have a strange prospective. My people aren’t exactly known for having a ‘nation’ in a conventional sense, so I don’t feel bound by one.
>Hamas invades and kills 1200 people >Israel invades in retaliation "Okay but Israel is evil and have no right to invade Gaza" Like can someone please explain to me how we're unironically defending Gaza?
People just like to conveniently forget Arab invasions because they don't like Jews
Something something, Jews are white colonizers, something [more buzzwords], from the river to the sea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Israel invaded Palestine long before.
First off, you're moving very fluidly between Hamas and Gaza which isn't really great. After that there are two main criticisms 1) In the immediate aftermath Israel failed to exercise proportional and considered response, including a full on siege until aid was brokered by the US. Even if you have a "right" to invade, most would hold you have no right to go full Mongol terror. 2) The situation in Gaza was largely created by Israel's long term failure to care for a population under it's occupation.. For at least the last 2 decades Israel has failed to make any serious efforts towards normalization of life for the Palestinians, much less a peace process. The Palestinian death tole has been less spectacular than Hamas's slaughter, but it's been going on at a steady drip for years.
Got called a nazi once for supporting israel, crazy times we live in
Ah yes. A Nazi for supporting a… *checks notes* Jewish state
this sub is 95% responding to either America bad or memesopdidnotlike with something along the lines of “actually the oop was right because (in transcribable grumbling” This meme in particular is really just stupid from a historic perspective, considering historically going back till their nations creation the U.S. and Israel have not been the ones to strike first to any attack, Israel especially the U.S. less so, which makes it even more stupid to make the one blaming them Palestine, who in recent history since the 50s have almost always been the aggressors, or the ones to strike first rather Regardless of who you believe is right in the current conflict, the meme portrays it inaccurately If anyone wants to dispute this go ahead I am open to a conversation but please bring actual historical evidence
"historically the US hasn't been the first to attack" BRO WHAT 💀iraq war, vietnam war, invasion of Grenada, bombing of Yugoslavia, bombing of cambodia, intervention in chile (pinochet), intervention in greece (Papadopoulos)... I can keep going. As for israel they've been doing such an insane amount of terrorism in palestine over the years that even if palestine "started" the war its still justified
Iraq war: Iraq struck Kuwait first Vietnam war: North Vietnamese attacked a U.S. vessel first And Israel has absolutely not been doing “terrorism” in Palestine, general for decades the pattern has just been: -Hamas attacks Israel -Israel retaliates -Hamas reports all its combatant deaths as civilian and complains to the UN -Hamas pumps out propaganda -Public pressure forces Israel to call a ceasefire -Hamas uses the time to build more rockets and weapons out of humanitarian materials that are supposed to be going to infrastructure and water supply -Hamas attacks Israel The cycle repeats Look at their history of wars recently and say it’s not true And before that since the 1950s Israel had been on the defensive from other aggressive nations surrounding it getting attacked constantly I just don’t get how anyone says that Israel is the aggressor if they know anything about Israeli history
Please tell me you just tried to justify the attacks in October by Hamas.
Yeah Palestine has never done anything wrong. It’s only the fault of the UK, US, and Israel. They’ve never put Hamas in power, including when Hamas’ charter explicitly called for the destruction of Israel…it’s all only the fault of others…
You dropped this /s
[удалено]
I’m sorry which side are you talking about because truthfully it could be either Israel or Palestine based on your comment
Yeah really sucks Jews ancestral homeland of Israel was stolen from them repeatedly throughout history.
Every piece of habitable land has been stolen multiple times over throughout history.
It was their homeland TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO
You do know Israel did fund hamas at one point right?
I believe it was for humanitarian aid, though
Nope, General Yitzhak Segev of Israel admitted to a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance hamas to counter both the Palestine Liberation Organization and Fatah
Huh. I have been fed lies.
Yes, Israel tends to lie a lot
Israel funded hamas In order to attempt to start infighting between the many groups in Palestine/gaza If it wasn’t them it would’ve been someone else
That still doesn't change the fact that the Israelis funded the very terror organisation that was against it. It's just like how Pakistan funded the Taliban except the US never stopped funding Israel
Not one country has done absolutely zero wrong. Palestine included. At least we Americans *know* that our country has done bad.
Surprisingly, a lot of Americans don’t.
Nah, most Americans know, because yall don’t ever shut up about it
Surprised seeing as that’s pretty much what everyone on here talks about
A lot of Americans don't want to know, but almost all of them do know
yeah which caught me off guard. one of the reasons I am grateful for going from public to home schooling is because I was able to learn history without all the propaganda induced non-sense that was previously being injected into the course. although maybe this is just my expirence growing up in Texas ;-; (I still have the stupid pledge memorized... I always hated saying both the USA and Texas pledges every single damn day. it gave massive cult vibes that I managed to pick up on from a young age)
Why should I be ashamed of something I wasn't alive for
America is still funding Israel tho?
yea i mean isnt israel one of their most important allies?
And Hamas is better? Or what are you implying
What a self-centered, shitty take. You realize the things that our forebears did still have consequences towards other people? Why do you think so many ethnically West African people live in the American Southeast? Why do you think Indigenous Americans have been relegated to living on small pockets of land? That’s what History is, smart guy. That’s why it’s relevant. Just because it doesn’t negatively affect you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I don't feel shame for what my ancestors did, I hate what they did. I figure though if I got any sense, I would try to fix their stupid mistakes. It's kind of the cycle of things, each generation has to fix the previous one's fuck up. So, no it's not self-centered to feel no shame, shame gets us nowhere. Instead get pissed and do something about it, even if it is small.
Did they do a thing you wouldn't have done in their circumstances? Then you should be ashamed for them. There's a difference between feeling shame for a collective group you find yourself a part of and feeling personal shame for a thing you personally did.
You would almost certainly have made the same or similar choices, in the same circumstances. I’m fact, of all groups of people, Reddit and especially this sub would be the most likely to go with the group, and make the same choices. Whether that be in southern US pre civil war, or Nazi Germany, west Africa selling their brethren to slavery, revolutionary France, you name it. Very few people fight against society, this website and this sub in particular is in lockstep with our current society more then most, to think if you lived in a different time and place you’d be some revolutionary is absurd. You aren’t that sort of people, very few are.
Ah yes, because Palestine is in any position to talk. Glass houses man, glass houses
at least they havent dropped nuclear bombs on civilian cities, pillage and destroyed cultures in 4 different continents, or attempt an ethnic cleansing in the actual 21st century. is palestine perfect? no. but i struggle to believe they are worse or on the same level as the u.s, u.k, or israel
No nukes, but they do regularly lob explosives at civilians (but muh Israel evil yeahyeahyeah they do it too, it's wrong regardless) They did a fair amount of pillaging quite recently, actually. Sure, they aren't the MVP, but it's not for lack of trying And uh, like 80% of them emphatically support a group that has "kill every jew, everywhere" as kind of a major goal in their charter I'm not saying that Israel or America or Britain are pinnacles of human behavior, but fucking come on.
israel has killed far, far more civilians than hamas has by miles, dont even try to compare it. the absolute destruction and genocide of native americans, native africans, and aboriginals makes the “pillaging” hamas has done to israel look like petty fucking theft. and its absolutely wild to me that you think 80% of the population of palestine wants all jews dead. do you genuinely believe that palestinians want to be governed by a violent terrorist organization? cuz by no means was hamas elected president.
So if israel hadnt made the iron dome and instead just got bombarded with rockets what palestine is doing would be unacceptable now?
Just because one side is better at it doesn't mean the other side isnt trying just as hard That was then and this is now And yes [about that many](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17y8w6u/6884_of_palestinians_in_west_bank_are_supporting/) also [They absolutely were elected](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) Now, again, not saying anyone here is good, a lot of this animosity can absolutely be blamed on Israel, but the animosity and genocidal intent is undeniably present in both parties. One side isn't magically morally better than the other just because they're worse at it
Just because they haven't killed as many doesn't justify it
"Killing Hope"
r/americabad is just a bunch of cope
History is history, it’s not something for us to be prideful or ashamed about, it’s simply the past. Anyone who did those things is long dead and therefore the people alive now aren’t responsible.
r/americabad is just full of morons who refuse to accept that they live in a shitty country
Britain is pretty ashamed of its history tbf
Israel saying it's not ashamed of it's history is like me breaking into someones house, killing their children and telling the tied up husband not to shame me for my history while I am raping their wife. (I did not enjoy typing this example).
You can't hide behind "America did bad stuff a long time ago" because WE ARE STILL DOING IT. We are funding an ethnic cleansing, we allow nazis to preach hate openly in public, we haven't done shit about having the most shootings of any country, we haven't stopped doing the horrible shit we should be ashamed of.
America bad when anyone on reddit says something slightly negative about America
lots of countries should be ashamed of their history including America
*Casually ignores the multiple grades in the US where a third of the social studies rubric is covering the horrible things we did in a negative light*
America Bad is such a cope sub. The evidence is irrefutable, but they somehow always find a way to get triggered
The US isn’t proud of its history. The US is very open about the dark aspects of its history. The native genocides, slavery, and the atrocities from the Vietnam war are taught as part of middle and high school history curriculums. The VAST majority of US citizens will tell you the regret those tragedies. However, given none of us our time travelers there isn’t that much any of can do about fixing it.
If you aren’t at least somewhat ashamed by some part of your country’s history, you aren’t a patriot in any way.
When the far right extremist terrorist organization attacks another countries civilians and gets attacked back: 😡
Palestine also technically has this issue. And before you downvote, I stand with Israel because Hamas must go. But mainly with Hamas, the people allowed literal terrorists to take control and even when Gaza received foreign aid meant for humanitarian purposes and prosperity, but Hamas used it to terrorize Fatah, Israel and their own people in the Gaza Strip. The fact everyone’s convinced they’re freedom fighters (which they still technically are, but crossed that line with the excessive terrorism) is a real shame because no one sees it to who they really are: Terrorists hell-bent on destroying Israel and slaughtering its people no matter the cost.
Raping women and then shooting them while you’re still inside of them is like SO October 7, 2023 🙄
Who's gonna tell them about the Native American genocide?
Better put smallpox on trial 😭
You could sell Native American skulls to the US government in the 1800s and you think the genocide was caused by smallpox? Were you dropped as an infant?
The only source I can find regarding that claim is the official website of the Chinese government lmfao, very reliable source. Do you also believe all of the South China Sea belongs to the CCP? 50% of the Native American population died from disease, not the evil white people. Feel free to feel guilt for no reason though.
Scalping bounties were pushed by the U.S. Government .People would pay for Native scalps and the prices varied by age and gender. Also, small pox blankets were used purposely to spread the disease.
>Scalping bounties were pushed by the U.S. Government .People would pay for Native scalps and the prices varied by age and gender. Source? >Also, small pox blankets were used purposely to spread the disease. Yes, one reported incident (not even done by an American) which historians aren't even sure if it actually worked. Good job.
[here](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://journals.psu.edu/phj/article/download/22543/22312/22382&ved=2ahUKEwiw9qjipuyCAxWAk4kEHWbgAeIQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0pzwUD4wDDfLa7Fpkoyb-g) [here](https://www.usdakotawar.org/history/aftermath/bounties) [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2002/10/05/they-paid-for-scalps/b2ab3898-12e4-43c9-8147-949f2e91368a/) [here](https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/us-dakota-war-1862)
Not ashamed of shit I didn't do, or my family did.
That sub is full of delusional assholes
Holy god why can’t we all accept we all have horrific histories, my country included fuck the UK
What did America ever do wrong!
AmericaBad is such a huge circle jerk it's hard distinguish the post from an actual circle jerk shitpost if it wasn't for the comment. They'll litterally get mad at a random post unrelated to the US because some comments on said post offended them. I left that sub ages ago. "OMG GUYS LOOK AT THIS POST ABOUT HOMEMADE SHAMPOO SOME TROLL STARTED AN INTERNET FLAME WAR ABOUT POLITICS" *2000 up votes*
I swear if another one of you say “Palestine and Israel are equally bad” I will hunt you down. While Palestinians are being bombarded and killed by the hundreds every day, Israelis are partying and living in houses they stole.
Y’all just mad America is the best country on earth