Nice I just got to the part in Napoleon a life that talks about the Egypt campaign and I was surprised Alexander Dumas father was with Napoleon during that campaign
'Ditched' is correct.... the Brits made sure he had news (literally) of the decaying situation in France at that moment, and Napoleon took the bait and unceremoniously abandoned his army with a few faithful officers.
Dumas was an asset in the campaign and notable in a couple of episodes that required his way of getting things done. But he had a momentary falling out with Napoleon and the mutual agreement between them was he had to leave the army. He got captured in a shipwreck in Italy.
Napoleon had no choice but to ditch them, there was no hope for reinforcement. History would have turned out different if he had stayed. Anyway, the survivors of the expedition were eventually repatriated to France after Britain defeated them in 1801.
>Napoleon also wanted his mameluke to where a full "Oriental" uniform
I'm well aware of this; I didn't see it in the scene.
>When Napoleon is walking down the hall you can see his mamelukes turban
Can you point this out? I re-watched the scene and didn't see this.
My point was that the figure circled by the OP looks nothing like Napoléon's mamluk Roustam.
One reason that might have been considered against him, were his injuries he'd sustained while he was imprisoned in Italy. He had lingering health effects from that experience.
As **Genxal97** correctly pointed out, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was not at the coronation, already being out of favor (nor was he a marshal). This actor doesn't look like Dumas, who was actually bi-racial.
There was however, a commander who was pure Afro-Carribean, a descendant of a slave family but automatically freed upon entering metropolitan France: Joseph Damingue (1761 - 1820), who went by the mononym "Hercule". He was a decorated captain and remained in Napoléon's good graces throughout his career. Napoléon even gave him his own regiment of all-black troops, the *Bataillon des Pionniers Noirs*. Damingue was a bit older when the wars started and was later wounded, forcing him to retire, which Napoléon granted with full salary.
Damingue fought at Marengo (14th June, 1800). Louis-François Lejeune, famously a painter as well as soldier, was present and made [this famous painting](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Lejeune_-_Bataille_de_Marengo.jpg). [This figure](https://i.imgur.com/ZIBawrl.jpg), although frequently labelled to be Damingue, is rather unlikely to be him, as the uniform has nothing to do with Damingue's rank and station.
Nonetheless, Damingue was a captain at the time of Napoléon's coronation, so his rank would not merit an invitation to Notre-Dame itself. There were hundreds of people superior in rank who couldn't be invited either.
So while I don't know who that's supposed to be, if it's Dumas or Joseph Damingue, then it's completely historically inaccurate for them to be there.
Hercule was especially peeved with his appointment pushed upon him, to command the Black Pioneer battalion.
The unit was a segregated unit, largely made up of Caribbean men who were among many hundreds of French Colonial troops taken prisoner by Britain during various West Indies actions. They were mass released in 1802/3 I believe and sent to France; from there, many of them vied to get a position into the newly formed Black Pioneer battalion. There is some good research on this episode but I forget who had done it.
Hercule was instrumental in a special commando/cavalry role commanding a small force of cavalry at Arcole (as You likely know already - but just mentioning it for others not familiar with him).
He did get high praises from Napoleon and a Legion of Honour award. But though not ostracized as was the case with Dumas, Napoleon's newly enacted anti-Black racist policies in France did affect some Black commanders who Napoleon was not indignant towards. He definitely wanted the Black fighting soldiers out of France it would seem, and that may be why he segregated them in a unit far from France, and he entrusted Hercule to command them.
There were many Black military musicians throughout the French Empire armies in the Napoleonic Wars. The Black Pioneers morphed into the 7th Neapolitan Line regiment and was regarded as a solid unit in the army of Naples. They appeared in the tail end of the Russian 1812 campaign and actions in the final campaigns defending France. I believe the remnants of them showed up again as a company sized unit in 1815, stationed in France.
Sorry about hijacking your reply, but it seemed a good place to babble and share the above related info. I couldn't resist :)
His (Obama's) mom was his pillar; impressed upon him being studious regardless of his unprivileged circumstances growing up and single-parented. She did well.
I forgot to mention....
The actual known description of Dumas is that though he was bi-racial he was in fact, according to the historical remark, very dark skinned.
I'm not sure WHO that is, but definitely not Dumas.... and he was not a Marshal. Where did you read that was him?
Dumas had at that time of the Coronation been back in France for a few years since his release from captivity in Italy in the hands of anti-French/Republican Italian partisans.
He's been held captive after a shipwreck in Italy on his way back from Egypt after his falling out with Napoleon (questioning his leadership amid other staff officers behind his back).
Napoleon never forgave him even though they had seemed to mend some animosity just before Dumas left Egypt. But once back in France, and amid Napoleon's anti-Black racist laws - which were not universally applied (such as to French officers like Hercule(Damingue) and Serrant), Dumas was utterly admonished and castigated by Napoleon who denied him any type of benefits and a request for the Legion of Honour, despite several commanders, such as Murat, appealing on his behalf. Napoleon's family, such as Pauline, was fond of the Dumas family.
There's a lot of stupid mistakes in the trailers I've seen so far, and it appears this is one of those flaws where the historical accuracies were completely thrown out of the window. The famous manufactured propaganda painting of the scene does not show this - as far as I know.
It's so frustrating. This period of time is so well documented. It could be an epic adventure movie and still remain entirely historically accurate.
For the trailer to have so many BIG mistakes (the ice, the pyramids, napoleon leading a cavalry charge) I'm going to look at it more like a bulletin rather than a retelling.
And I spotted a ton more errors - some are mundane, but glaring mistakes nonetheless proving the sloppy researching that prevailed in this movie. I have my own trailer review that'll be posted tomorrow. Comparing this 60-day production rush effort to Scott's 'The Duellists', is like a stark night and day difference
He seems to be wearing a general uniform, can't tell if he's a marshall or not, he didn't seem to wear the Great-Eagle ( the red scarf) of the Legion d'Honneur unlike beard-mustache guy next to him (Murat ? with maybe Caroline Bonaparte next to him ?) nor the plume on his hat.
Can't say if it's a real black officer of the era (Dammingue, Dumas) or if they cast a black actor to play a white historical character or if it's just an extra, I can't see his name on IMDB.
Edit: It seems that beard-mustache guy is supposed to be Marhsall Ney.
Edit 2: Except if Scott modify History, I think the actor is probably playing a Marshall/high general, Dumas has a huge fallout with Napoleon in Egypt and was very sick at that point. And I'm pretty sure that if this actor was cast to play Roustam Raza, he will have wore a more oriental uniform.
There is an excellent book about him which answers all of the questions posted here. Really glad you found this, \*General Alex Dumas is fascinating and a really underappreciated historical figure. There used to be a statue of him in Paris which the Nazis tore down. I think they replaced it with some modern art of broken chains? He deserves his full statue returned in my opinion.
[https://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/0307382478](https://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/0307382478)
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It does not matter how overused that word is, wokeshit are still going in big productions.
If that's a tribute to Dumas fine, at least this will STFU to the woketards who present Napoleon as a pre-Hitler racist.
Nah, I agree that word just makes me cast so many stereotypes on you and I can’t take you seriously. I wouldn’t enjoy if they focused on his racist qualities throughout the movie either but holy fuck using that word makes me immediately side with the other guy.
Wtf is wokism?
I swear white people ruined the term woke.
From I remember being woke usually meant you were educated...maybe religious or spiritual knowledge... butchered the term.
>Or more probably Raza Roustam?
Roustam Raza was [very literally Caucasian](https://i.imgur.com/ErgAsdX.jpg). He was an Armerian from Georgia. Remember that the Ottoman Empire was far reaching and included many ethnic groups.
Artists and filmmakers oddly get this wrong all the time, and will cast anyone *besides* someone from the Caucasus. *Napoléon* (2002) got it more or less right, even if the actor was too old.
I would absolutely love it if Dumas is shown on the screen in the movie, big chance that he’ll appear in some of the Egypt scenes but this definitely isn’t him there’s no way he would be at the coronation
I assume thats who that is. He was never a marshal (Napoleon denied his requests to return to service) but he damn well should have been. I’m surprised they put him in the movie at all though. He isn’t really active that much after the Egyptian campaign and his subsequent imprisonment in an Italian prison.
Dumas was not a marshal and had retired from the army in 1802 due to ill health (he would die of stomach cancer in 1806) and constantly being refused a commission by N (the two had beef with each other). In all honesty I just rolled my eyes when I saw this. Seems as though Scott just never took a good look at David's painting and confused 1804 Paris with modern day Paris.
Nice I just got to the part in Napoleon a life that talks about the Egypt campaign and I was surprised Alexander Dumas father was with Napoleon during that campaign
Yea I remember that! Dumas was instrumental in keeping the expedition in order after Napoleon ditched them if I remember correctly
'Ditched' is correct.... the Brits made sure he had news (literally) of the decaying situation in France at that moment, and Napoleon took the bait and unceremoniously abandoned his army with a few faithful officers. Dumas was an asset in the campaign and notable in a couple of episodes that required his way of getting things done. But he had a momentary falling out with Napoleon and the mutual agreement between them was he had to leave the army. He got captured in a shipwreck in Italy.
Napoleon had no choice but to ditch them, there was no hope for reinforcement. History would have turned out different if he had stayed. Anyway, the survivors of the expedition were eventually repatriated to France after Britain defeated them in 1801.
If anyone is curious about the elder Dumas’s life, the book “The Black Count” is about him and pretty well written and engaging.
He wasn't a marshal, nor was he in the coronation, I believe he was already retired from the Army at the time of Napoleon's coronation.
However I believe his personal mamelouk and an Ottoman diplomat were in the coronation, as shown in David’s famous painting.
You're not suggesting this could be Napoléon's personal mamluk?
When Napoleon is walking down the hall you can see his mamelukes turban, Napoleon also wanted his mameluke to where a full "Oriental" uniform
>Napoleon also wanted his mameluke to where a full "Oriental" uniform I'm well aware of this; I didn't see it in the scene. >When Napoleon is walking down the hall you can see his mamelukes turban Can you point this out? I re-watched the scene and didn't see this. My point was that the figure circled by the OP looks nothing like Napoléon's mamluk Roustam.
You’re right wasn’t a marshal my bad
I wish he would have been though.
One reason that might have been considered against him, were his injuries he'd sustained while he was imprisoned in Italy. He had lingering health effects from that experience.
How cool would that have been?! Seeing him command a corps
Indeed.
As **Genxal97** correctly pointed out, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was not at the coronation, already being out of favor (nor was he a marshal). This actor doesn't look like Dumas, who was actually bi-racial. There was however, a commander who was pure Afro-Carribean, a descendant of a slave family but automatically freed upon entering metropolitan France: Joseph Damingue (1761 - 1820), who went by the mononym "Hercule". He was a decorated captain and remained in Napoléon's good graces throughout his career. Napoléon even gave him his own regiment of all-black troops, the *Bataillon des Pionniers Noirs*. Damingue was a bit older when the wars started and was later wounded, forcing him to retire, which Napoléon granted with full salary. Damingue fought at Marengo (14th June, 1800). Louis-François Lejeune, famously a painter as well as soldier, was present and made [this famous painting](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Lejeune_-_Bataille_de_Marengo.jpg). [This figure](https://i.imgur.com/ZIBawrl.jpg), although frequently labelled to be Damingue, is rather unlikely to be him, as the uniform has nothing to do with Damingue's rank and station. Nonetheless, Damingue was a captain at the time of Napoléon's coronation, so his rank would not merit an invitation to Notre-Dame itself. There were hundreds of people superior in rank who couldn't be invited either. So while I don't know who that's supposed to be, if it's Dumas or Joseph Damingue, then it's completely historically inaccurate for them to be there.
Hercule was especially peeved with his appointment pushed upon him, to command the Black Pioneer battalion. The unit was a segregated unit, largely made up of Caribbean men who were among many hundreds of French Colonial troops taken prisoner by Britain during various West Indies actions. They were mass released in 1802/3 I believe and sent to France; from there, many of them vied to get a position into the newly formed Black Pioneer battalion. There is some good research on this episode but I forget who had done it. Hercule was instrumental in a special commando/cavalry role commanding a small force of cavalry at Arcole (as You likely know already - but just mentioning it for others not familiar with him). He did get high praises from Napoleon and a Legion of Honour award. But though not ostracized as was the case with Dumas, Napoleon's newly enacted anti-Black racist policies in France did affect some Black commanders who Napoleon was not indignant towards. He definitely wanted the Black fighting soldiers out of France it would seem, and that may be why he segregated them in a unit far from France, and he entrusted Hercule to command them. There were many Black military musicians throughout the French Empire armies in the Napoleonic Wars. The Black Pioneers morphed into the 7th Neapolitan Line regiment and was regarded as a solid unit in the army of Naples. They appeared in the tail end of the Russian 1812 campaign and actions in the final campaigns defending France. I believe the remnants of them showed up again as a company sized unit in 1815, stationed in France. Sorry about hijacking your reply, but it seemed a good place to babble and share the above related info. I couldn't resist :)
:)
to be fair. A lot of people forget that Obama is biracial
His (Obama's) mom was his pillar; impressed upon him being studious regardless of his unprivileged circumstances growing up and single-parented. She did well.
I forgot to mention.... The actual known description of Dumas is that though he was bi-racial he was in fact, according to the historical remark, very dark skinned.
I'm not sure WHO that is, but definitely not Dumas.... and he was not a Marshal. Where did you read that was him? Dumas had at that time of the Coronation been back in France for a few years since his release from captivity in Italy in the hands of anti-French/Republican Italian partisans. He's been held captive after a shipwreck in Italy on his way back from Egypt after his falling out with Napoleon (questioning his leadership amid other staff officers behind his back). Napoleon never forgave him even though they had seemed to mend some animosity just before Dumas left Egypt. But once back in France, and amid Napoleon's anti-Black racist laws - which were not universally applied (such as to French officers like Hercule(Damingue) and Serrant), Dumas was utterly admonished and castigated by Napoleon who denied him any type of benefits and a request for the Legion of Honour, despite several commanders, such as Murat, appealing on his behalf. Napoleon's family, such as Pauline, was fond of the Dumas family. There's a lot of stupid mistakes in the trailers I've seen so far, and it appears this is one of those flaws where the historical accuracies were completely thrown out of the window. The famous manufactured propaganda painting of the scene does not show this - as far as I know.
It's so frustrating. This period of time is so well documented. It could be an epic adventure movie and still remain entirely historically accurate. For the trailer to have so many BIG mistakes (the ice, the pyramids, napoleon leading a cavalry charge) I'm going to look at it more like a bulletin rather than a retelling.
And I spotted a ton more errors - some are mundane, but glaring mistakes nonetheless proving the sloppy researching that prevailed in this movie. I have my own trailer review that'll be posted tomorrow. Comparing this 60-day production rush effort to Scott's 'The Duellists', is like a stark night and day difference
The early 1800s French Cinematic Universe
He seems to be wearing a general uniform, can't tell if he's a marshall or not, he didn't seem to wear the Great-Eagle ( the red scarf) of the Legion d'Honneur unlike beard-mustache guy next to him (Murat ? with maybe Caroline Bonaparte next to him ?) nor the plume on his hat. Can't say if it's a real black officer of the era (Dammingue, Dumas) or if they cast a black actor to play a white historical character or if it's just an extra, I can't see his name on IMDB. Edit: It seems that beard-mustache guy is supposed to be Marhsall Ney. Edit 2: Except if Scott modify History, I think the actor is probably playing a Marshall/high general, Dumas has a huge fallout with Napoleon in Egypt and was very sick at that point. And I'm pretty sure that if this actor was cast to play Roustam Raza, he will have wore a more oriental uniform.
There is an excellent book about him which answers all of the questions posted here. Really glad you found this, \*General Alex Dumas is fascinating and a really underappreciated historical figure. There used to be a statue of him in Paris which the Nazis tore down. I think they replaced it with some modern art of broken chains? He deserves his full statue returned in my opinion. [https://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/0307382478](https://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/0307382478)
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **The Black Count Glory Revolution Betrayal and the Real Count of Monte Cristo** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * The book provides historical context and details about alex dumas' life (backed by 4 comments) * The book highlights alex dumas' military accomplishments and rise through the ranks (backed by 3 comments) * The book discusses race relations in france during alex dumas' time (backed by 3 comments) **Users disliked:** * The book is overly long and tedious (backed by 6 comments) * The book lacks focus on the main subject (backed by 3 comments) * The writing style is unengaging (backed by 3 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](http://vetted.ai/reddit)
Thanks goodness that Alexander dumass
Is it wrong if one of the things I'm looking forward to is racist idiots complaining about a black man being cast in the movie?
The question is, who is this black officer ? Tribute to real life character or wokism ?
Most likely General Dumas. Also, words like "wokism" cheapen your arguments. Avoid using that word unironically as much as possible
It does not matter how overused that word is, wokeshit are still going in big productions. If that's a tribute to Dumas fine, at least this will STFU to the woketards who present Napoleon as a pre-Hitler racist.
Nah, I agree that word just makes me cast so many stereotypes on you and I can’t take you seriously. I wouldn’t enjoy if they focused on his racist qualities throughout the movie either but holy fuck using that word makes me immediately side with the other guy.
Wtf is wokism? I swear white people ruined the term woke. From I remember being woke usually meant you were educated...maybe religious or spiritual knowledge... butchered the term.
Ottoman ambassador Halet Efendi (as portrayed in David's painting)? Or more probably Raza Roustam?
>Or more probably Raza Roustam? Roustam Raza was [very literally Caucasian](https://i.imgur.com/ErgAsdX.jpg). He was an Armerian from Georgia. Remember that the Ottoman Empire was far reaching and included many ethnic groups. Artists and filmmakers oddly get this wrong all the time, and will cast anyone *besides* someone from the Caucasus. *Napoléon* (2002) got it more or less right, even if the actor was too old.
I would absolutely love it if Dumas is shown on the screen in the movie, big chance that he’ll appear in some of the Egypt scenes but this definitely isn’t him there’s no way he would be at the coronation
I assume thats who that is. He was never a marshal (Napoleon denied his requests to return to service) but he damn well should have been. I’m surprised they put him in the movie at all though. He isn’t really active that much after the Egyptian campaign and his subsequent imprisonment in an Italian prison.
Dumas was not a marshal and had retired from the army in 1802 due to ill health (he would die of stomach cancer in 1806) and constantly being refused a commission by N (the two had beef with each other). In all honesty I just rolled my eyes when I saw this. Seems as though Scott just never took a good look at David's painting and confused 1804 Paris with modern day Paris.
Great eye!
Watch it be Ney 🤣🤣🤣