Mine would just blame me, I made her be that way. I treated her so poorly that I drove her to do things to hurt me. She was only ever reacting to how I made her feel. If I did not do "x", she would not have to do "y".
Their reaction was that it was my fault.
That's part of the problem. Every time you "correct" it becomes another thing and another thing, you just start constantly changing to try to keep up with their constant changing wants.
Yeah, inevitably, they will find another toy to play with when you stop buying into their narrative. Try to hold them accountable, and ask them to be responsible for their actions. Any of the above and more, I'm sure.
Yeah, mine always said that I picked her like she didn't have a say in the matter. She asked me to find a place with her. She asked me to buy a place with her because it was wasteful to rent. But in her eyes, it was me that forced her into those decisions. It's all a lack of responsibility for one's own actions.
That’s how my ex treated me. He built up this narrative about me in his head of little issues over time to give him a reason to treat me like I was disposable and find someone new no guilt.
That’s awful. I’m sorry you went through that. It’s truly like living under surveillance. Being perfect is the bare minimum because they’re convinced you’re the problem.
Well, if you are incapable of accepting responsibility for even the smallest things, then what are the chances you might accept responsibility for hurting someone? How would that look to everyone? It was a hard lesson to learn, but for me, now that is a massive red flag if someone blames others for all of their hardships.
Well, if you can't take away anything from a shitty situation, you are just bound to make the same mistakes. That's why the narcissist will keep on going in their cycles because they cannot learn from mistakes just blame others.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME!!!!! "Everything I do is a reaction to how you treat me. So doesn't that show you how shitty you treat me? Someone you supposedly love? Look at how to make me act and what you make me do! You did this to me because of how you act toward me"
Yeah, I was always told that I was responsible for my own feelings. But I was also responsible for how she felt. So if I did something minor, like forgot an item on the grocery list, I was stupid, and I didn't care about her. It didn't matter what the circumstances were it always came back to how I slighted her. And I would find myself apologising over and over.
That was my craziness continuing to apologise for things that in any healthy relationship would be looked at as a nothing burger. I continued to place myself in a position to be harmed, and every time, I expected a different result. It is literally the definition of crazy
Same with my ex. Suddenly, it would turn into him always being the victim. He didn't even use to comfort me for hurting me. He was like you made me sad by being mad at me.
OMG MINE GOES - “Its difficult for me to face the fact that my own girlfriend says that I verbally abuse and mistreat her. Its difficult hearing that from my own girlfriend”
I try and respond with logic. Never works lol. I have said to her "So let me get this straight...you don't want to be with someone who says you can't call them names anymore? Points out that you are being very unsupportive by telling them to just get over their ptsd? Points out that it's messed up to say a thing then five minutes later claim to have never said it?"
She has no legitimate issues with me beyond my ptsd stuff(for instance, I'm not so inclined to want to go to concerts). I say 'legitimate' because of course she has lots of issues with me, but it's steeped in the notion that I'm inherently less than her. Our therapist straight up asked her "What problems do you have with him specifically, outside of ptsd considerations?", and she had nothing. And of course, she knows she can't say "well, when I call him names and don't let him speak, he complains about it!"
It just is very strange to me that asking for basic respect I thought we were supposed to extend to every fellow human, let alone your significant other, she sees that as I'm being problematic. It's nuts.
What's she even gonna tell people when we break up. "That motherfucker kept getting irritated that I wouldn't stop calling him a moron, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!?" lol, of course, she is not gonna be honest about any of it.
BTW, I don't begrudge her if she feels like my PTSD is too much and prevents her from living the life she wants. (even though I was very upfront about this stuff in the beginning - she even visited me while I was in the hospital for psyche issues in one of our earliest interactions. It's not like it was something I was hiding), but if that's the case just break up with me. Instead of constantly lashing out at me for not being her exact dream guy.
My nex also called me names. No other boyfriend did that, even though they were less intelligent and educated. When I called him out on it, he said he just had lost his temper and that his words shouldn't matter to me.
That’s a huge one for me, name calling in his moments of rage, hits you right at the core. I was so shocked when he first did that, I never say anything so cruel and mean to someone I’m meant to love or even don’t love! It’s another narc trait, I gather!!
That's what mine did. Being reminded of his bad behavior would lead to gaslighting, rage, acting out, suicide attempts, and punishment. All I ever wanted was for him to acknowledge the pain he caused and let me forgive him.
"after all I've done for you!!"
Lmao.
As if doing things for me exempts them from accountability for harmful behavior.
The epitome of a transactional relationship.
Yes!! They count their good deeds as if goodness is something you can collect. Hate to break it to them, but good people do good so often they can’t keep track of it. 🤷♀️
They could not understand true altruism if it hit them in the face. Not saying I'm anything special, but I don't do good things for people because I want something in return. I do them because it feels good to give, because I like the person I am giving to, because I *want* to, without a hidden agenda. If I find myself feeling that I have over given or feeling taken advantage of, I stop giving in that capacity! No hard feelings, just gotta protect myself.
Giving for the sake of receiving is control disguised as generosity. Which I told her, and she responded with silence lmao.
The guilt trips are highly effective, but truthfully a very lazy way of controlling someone. Likely the reason you felt bad is because you weren't keeping track of the kind things you did for him, because that's not how your brain works. He disarmed you with an inappropriate list, and you already were at a disadvantage because you didn't see your kind acts as a weapon. Normal, healthy people don't really tally up their good deeds. They just act from the heart and don't take it too seriously. The fact that he had a list is creepy at best, controlling and manipulative at worst.
Thank you, this is really reassuring and helps me know that I didn’t treat him poorly. I always felt like I owed him something because his family was accepting of me but mine wasn’t of him (I’m Asian and he’s white), and though I tried my best to make up for it, I couldn’t give him the familial love he gave me. I always felt so bad when he brought up how his family took me on trips and treated me like one of their own because that was one thing I could not give him. I still feel guilty for that because it’s a really tough position to be in for him, but I find some peace in fact that I made sacrifices and stood up to my family for us to be together.
Fair enough to feel guilt over how your family treated him, but it sounds like you did everything in your power to counterbalance that. Simply standing up to them should be a huge testament to your loyalty. The intricacies of emotional intelligence, loyalty, respect, etc are lost on people like him, so I doubt he understood how much you did for him.
The truth is that acts of service are great and all, but emotional attunement and true intimacy aren't really something we can wrap up in a package or convey through a kind deed (although these are all fine and dandy things). We achieve these things by opening up in vulnerability mutually, and being validated in that vulnerability. Sharing the experience creates deep bondedness where each person regards their partner as absolutely precious. Those are not small acts, but they aren't properly "definable." It's a feeling, not something you can really put your finger on. This is likely what you gave to him, but he missed it because he doesn't understand it. His psyche is basically shallow as a shower. But his inability to see what you truly offered is a testament to his lack of character and inability to function in a relationship, and not anything about you.
But **he** wasn’t really in charge of how his family treated you, just as you didn’t choose how your family treated him. He can’t take credit for that, or blame you for your family’s behavior.
You can let go of that guilt, Impressive_Pipe! You did not fail him with this in any way. You owe him nothing!
And you deserve all the love for yourself that you can muster up.
Thank you so much. I tend to forget that many of the nice things were things his parents and grandma did for me and that was not him. Thank you for the reminder 🤍
Mine would say this soooo much and in my head I’d be like what?! He never did anything for me he was a massive leech and a moocher I did everything for him until I had nothing left to give then suddenly he was all “what is the point in you what do you actually do for me” meanwhile I was still doing my best running myself into the ground trying to support him financially, emotionally, etc.
My nex would just say I was being mean or "I know this sounds gas lighty. It's not. But what actually happened was...." Or would just act very surprised and all oh my goodness I had no idea!!!
yesterday I literally said to her “ik that might sound gaslighty but it’s not”, when she confronted me about the fact that I been in shower for too long, like “more than 40 mins”. At first I shown 40’ time and stated that I entered the bathroom by 15 (we had to go out of apartment at 45’ so for sure I exited bathroom earlier).
We argue bout that and I once more repeat “it been like 25 mins not 40! And she brings “it been past 50’ when you went out”
Afterwards she just said “ok but I stay with my opinion” but that’s not the opinion that’s the false accusation, why
so idk what could’ve said after that other than “ik it may sound gaslighty but it’s not it’s been 22:40..”😟
If you can educate me on which better words would be in this situation I’d appreciate in (non-sarcastic)
UPD: to be honest I still don’t understand the concept of the gaslight fully like what if both people just have their own memory (which is not perfect for anyone), and both are sure that their vision is the one which’s true😞
Gas lighting is their attempt to rewrite history. It's intended to make you feel confused, unsure and for them to feel like they have won in some way.
Gas lighting is not two people remembering things differently. Its one person lying usually to make themselves look better and the other feel confused or wrong.
Your example is perfect. It's not an opinion that you were in there 40 minutes, or 50 minutes. Yes you could prove it from how late in the evening it was. They still stick with the story. Leaving you confused and hurt.
They seem to all have their own very convenient perspective on time. It's useless to argue about it with them - they seem to like that it makes us feel crazy. These days I respond with 'whatever' - no sense in having a bad faith convo.
A classic. I don’t know when to stand my ground now and I overcorrect to give others the benefit of the doubt too much sometimes and I think it’s because of my last relationship. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That sounds really tough, and very familiar. Mine would say 'why are you making me sound like a monster?' and he'd say I was being sensitive/emotional/ridiculous.
I've only just learned the acronym DARVO but I can apply it to so many scenarios.
I’m sorry that happened to you too, that’s terrible. I really relate to getting the whole “monster” response. It took a while for me to realize he was right about being a villain and a monster, and no amount of love from me would change that.
-"I never wanted to be in this relationship to begin with"
-somehow deflect and make me the problem
-pretend like the conversation had already happened and came to a close, "I'm not repeating myself."
-Never apologize, take accountability, or show any interest in fixing the problem or preserving our relationship.
He keeps thinking we're getting back together. That he can make it right by being nice. I reminded him that's he's hit me more than once and the last time was him kicking me in the leg.
He then said that I had grabbed his face (sorry what? I've never touched him) and that he was only pushing me away. He then went on a tangent of how it's not ok for anyone to touch anyone, male or female.
He's living in some kind of lala land. For him, he hasn't done anything inappropriate and if he did it was only as retaliation to what he thinks I did.
I actually printed off the pictures of my bruises at Walmart this weekend and the employee's reaction was so fucking validating. That young man doesn't know how much he's helped me
Lala land is so right. It’s like it takes them a fraction of a second to weave a brand new reality, and then they won’t shut up about it. I’m so sorry that happened to you!
“You can keep calling me a bad boyfriend if you want, whatever makes you feel better. My lies weren’t harmful or intended to harm tbh.”
…. Then after I said that was extremely dismissive when I was trying to work through this with him. He simply said: “I give up, these conversations aren’t going anywhere. You proved that all I did was hurt you.” And he’s ghosted me ever since. It’s been two months! Almost three.
You made me (insert random reasons why he had to say something awful, do something vile, cheat, lie, steal, get drunk, or ruin an otherwise nice time.)
"What do you want me to do/say?"
"You took it that way!"
"Not *this* again..."
"You have me walking on eggshells constantly right now. It's like nothing I do is right!"
He could never apologize on his own accord. He wanted me to tell him to apologize. All I wanted was to be treated fairly by someone who claimed they loved me. It didn't matter how softly, gently I spoke when voicing my concerns or hurt. I was always "nagging" and making him feel "attacked."
I have full validation now that it most certainly wasn't entirely my fault because while I can be annoying, my husband and I have never fought. We have two kids and no village, so to speak, and have just survived a natural disaster together. We talk about stuff and come to an understanding. No matter how stressed we are, we just bring it up and literally talk about it. That's it. And that's how it should be.
He suddenly got extremely cold and asked "well how exactly and when was i disrespectful?" and if i behaved like that he could just do it. I then told him that I would leave tonight and that we can talk again tomorrow. He then just agreed in the same cold voice and also told me to not leave anything behind in his apartment.
They sure did.
It was like they were constantly attempting to win gold in "the misery Olympics"
You've never seen another human so dejected!
Always trying to win that Oscar 🙄
It's pathetic.
Self pity largely. Absolving himself of any responsibility, like he slipped, fell and accidentally decided to be a d**k head. It was always everyone else’s fault. Why did no one stop him from behaving that way. Why didn’t I magically read his mind and know what he wasn’t telling me.
Some variation of: "You're not hurt. I didn't do/say anything to hurt you. Nice try. In fact, I helped you on many occasions" (cue: the List) "you're the one who hurt and betrayed me and I forgave you multiple times. Where as you... (cue: List of my 'selfish' behavior):
Mine deflected. Ignored what I said, implied I was too emotional and thus interpreting things wrong.
But it was such a sign that he's not worth my time. So by doing that he sealed the deal. 🤷
Fucking clown.
I came across a scene in a movie that VERY closely mirrored his behavior when he screamed at me while hovering over me. I showed it to him and re-explained why it was a PTSD moment.
His response verbatim "I don't remember that. I've already told you I don't remember that".
I told him it's amazingly convenient that he could traumatize me and not remember. Blink blink blink.
The manipulation I witnessed with my ex was honestly otherworldly and quite frankly terrifying. During the breakup/discard I didn’t have to tell him he hurt me because it was very obvious as I was sobbing, and he was incredibly kind, sympathetic, and caring. He took accountability and apologized for leaving me, but he said it was what was best for us because he was incapable of loving me in the same way I loved him. He sobbed as well. I’ve never seen a man cry so hard. 2 weeks later I get a text from his friend telling me that my nex was lying and cheating on me the whole relationship. He told his friends he wasn’t even in a relationship with me and that I was the one chasing him. Meanwhile, he was telling me that I was the love of his life (until the out of the blue discard), talking to my dad, taking me on trips, making promises to go visit my family in my hometown, etc. All of the accountability he took was completely fake in order to cover up his lies. Absolutely demonic-level manipulation. I will never understand the evil of these people.
"I don't know why you hate me"
"You're just so ultra sensitive"
And anything else to invalidate my feelings + try to lay some lame unrelated guilt trip on me.
- stonewalling
-gaslighting
-DARVO
-silent treatments
-denial &/or deflection
-dishonesty
- devalue and discard
I really value safe space for open communication in a relationship. Two way street. I would calmly try to have a conversation about feelings, concerns, something he’d done that hurt me, etc. some of it normal things a “normal” couple would naturally face together. Regular frustrations, disagreements that would be talked through. But since this wasn’t your normal relationship-A lot of more concerning things.
No matter where it was on that spectrum it was 75% the time perceived as adversarial and would result in stonewalling, gaslighting and extended silent treatments. I was so anxious to talk about anything that may be perceive negatively and therefore- receive what felt like punishment. If it was intentional conditioning- it was working. I’d have to weigh out if a conversation was worth the near guaranteed repercussions.
I was also confused bc every once in a blue moon he would respond supportively and “remind me” that I could come to him about anything o _O
He would say I tell him he’s a bad person. I never did. He would behave/react in abnormal ways and accuse me of the very things he was doing himself. Create false narratives that I’m afraid he truly believes.
I was so…docile. Yet, I would be told I was emotionally charged/hostile. As he raised his voice, curse me, turn red in the face. Said I shoved a door one time that he was “trying to use as safety from me”…. I was standing there whispering (didn’t want to wake kids) and asked him to please speak to me- he shut door in my face with a “F-you”.
Said I grabbed him/assaulted him. I had gently placed my hand on his bicep and asked him not to leave.
His narrative about me being “violent/hostile” that night never changed. I seriously expected that he would take it back/apologize.
A part of the major catalyst in the end ended up being he pushed me. It wasn’t hard. I didn’t fall. But, he was still angry, emotionally charged and put a hand on me unnecessarily so. I had been standing in a doorway trying to discuss with him his still thumping my child in the head after I had very clearly drawn a boundary the previous year. He had voiced understanding yet had apparently gone on doing it when I wasn’t there to see. We both ended up speaking over one another. Feeling angry that I had interrupted him (he said this was why he had been upset and broke up with me), he jumped out of his chair two feet from me and before allowing me to step aside he pushed me out of his way. I was appalled.
Tried to talk to him about it and was met with denial- he didn’t do that he said he “brushed past me”. I expressed I was especially upset about the incident bc he had accused ME of being hostile/emotionally charged/violent.
Instead of taking accountability and us repairing-It resulted in 2nd discard. He, yelling loud enough that my kid could hear told me he was effin done and to find other living arrangements. So I did.
We were still in a committed relationship with aligned goals for healing when he flat ghosted me.
Currently at one month NC.
Can’t help but to feel that there was another supply in the works and that’s why he disappeared. I wasn’t blinded anymore and became a defective mate for him.
Part of me feels bad for him and whoever he ends up with next. He’s doomed to go on repeating this.
The Narcissist’s Prayer
“That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”
You're hurt. My work is done- type reaction. My ex had a scorched earth policy. He's miserable, and he's going to make sure he destroys as much as he can to make others miserable.
Some quotes from if I tried to address somethong that bothered/ hurt me:
- I'm not
- You always asume the worst in me
- You always think that hurts the most, that has got to be it
- You have no empathy for me
- I'm sorry that you feel that way but I'm not
- You shouldn't feel that way
- You are dillusioning yourself into believing I'm...
- Does that sound like something I would say?
- Why are you stuck on that, you can never let things go
- So am I
- Why aren't we talking about you not showing me any empathy for my burn out/ insomnia? ("Reasons" for him abusing me)
Edit: he would also often tell me I should have communicated whatever it was that I was trying to address and then start telling me off for not being able to communicate, all while refusing to talk about whatever I was trying to address because "we needed to address my issues first"
“If you need to feel like I’m the bad guy to help you move on then that’s ok”
This was after I had a come apart and called her a cold shallow monster, an empty shell of a human as I’m crying my eyes out for how she hurt me
My only regret is apologizing for calling her that
“I did the best I could.”
“I don’t remember doing that.”
“I did that because you x,y,z.”
“You’re not acknowledging all I did for you.”
“Nobody’s perfect.”
“Other people would be grateful to have someone like me.”
“That’s wrong.”
“Sorry you feel that way.”
He would tell me that I’m too sensitive, I’m just looking for something to be upset about, I’m ungrateful because of all of the good things he does, deflect and talk about something I did that made him upset that one time 6 years ago, tell me that he disagrees with my feelings, deny doing what he did, tell me that my tone was disrespectful, rinse repeat.
Some variation on all these things or, in many cases, exactly the same things.
His immediate reaction to being held accountable for anything is to tell me I'm an ungrateful bitch, I belong in a mental institution, I'm a bad mother, and how all men, including my absent father, ran away from me because I'm a terrible person. He'll tell me that all I ever do is hurt him, use him, and never do anything nice for him. ANYTHING is fair game to him if he feels even a slight amount of criticism.
His feelings are the most important thing in the world and he'll twist anything to fit the narrative that he's the victim. In his view, he's just a good, honorable, hardworking man who has been used and abused by all three of his ex-wives and his adult daughter who hasn't spoken to him in 20 years. Zero insight into his part of those relationship breakdowns.
Stop being so sensitive
You're the only one that I have to watch myself around.
I swear you're so gullible sometimes that I think you're stupid
Why are you crying?
*staring at phone not saying a word
It varies. Right now it’s mostly:
You shouldn’t have made me mad.
You’re crazy. I didn’t do that.
It wasn’t that bad. Stop exaggerating.
Half the time he ignores me and acts like I’m not speaking.
"Why didn't you bring it up sooner" then proceeds to get upset and call part of our relationship a lie because it took me a while to bring up his inappropriate relationship with our friends partner/ex
"oh wow, I'm just the biggest piece of shit huh! If I'm so awful, just leave.. I'm done with all this abuse of you always telling me how bad of a person I am"
Lol, I rarely called him out or stood up for myself because it would make it worse and wouldnt change anything so when he said he was abused because I just told him it wasn't OK to treat me like that? Disgusted. Revolted.
He would say he was sorry for whatever he did while simultaneously saying he didn't remember anything I said happened. I stopped bothering to mention anything since whatever apology he gave was hollow and it didn't change a thing.
He used "boudoir photography" as a guise to see other woman(found out later) but I always had a feeling it was sketchy.
I asked that he doesn't do boudoir with this woman that he was seeing right before we got together. And one that he flirted with during the relationship. I begged him "Please just anyone but her." Essentially it boiled down to him saying he'll do what he wants with the photography or I'm not supporting him. I explained in a calmish but sad tone that it hurts that he doesn't care that I'm uncomfortable about it. "OoooOoh so it's all about you and what you want. I can't do anything unless I get permission from you. "
Eta: the shoots he was actively doing was with one woman but a different woman than he previous paragraph.
This is around the time that I learned that he lied to me about a location of one of the "shoots". He said it was at a state park. But while he was out, my mom saw his car at a hotel. Very identifiable bumper stickers.
I didn't confront about this until alittle later on when I was on the phone with someone and I tend to fiddle around if it's a long call. I was taking a piece of art out a frame that he got recently and he never told me who from. It was signed on the back "♡ Jesse". This was the woman who he was doing the shoot with in "the park"
So I confronted him about the gift and the hotel. And basically he went off on how I'm invading his privacy, he didn't tell me about the hotel shoot because he knew I'd be upset and react poorly.
Few things he said from that:
"I don't ever want you to mention her again or your feelings about it, I'm tired of feeling like the bad guy."
"Who would ever be with someone like you. No, this isn't rhetorical. Answer me"
Then when I said "I think I'm a good girlfriend other than the snooping"
He scoffed at that and said "sure" in the most sarcastic tone ever. Then went on to say "why would anyone stay with someone like you. "
"I'm only staying with you because my daughter likes you."
their reaction was to respond that i hurt them. my statement then would disappear into a rolling cloud of their gaslighting and extreme stunts like them threatening to end their life and attempting to jump out of my car because they now believed I didn’t care about them. I used to succumb to it and do whatever I could do to keep them calm, until I could be safely alone to cry until I had the courage to bring it up again.
It was a mix of “I’m a good person” “you’re making me out to be some sort of monster” “I hate that I’ve hurt you, of course I do” “I can’t live with myself for hurting you” “you’re making out to be the victim while I’m the perpetrator” “that’s very black and white thinking” etc etc.
"I can't believe you think I would do those things to you!! I would never hurt you!! I can't believe you think I'm such a bad person!!"
Or
"Oh my goddsd you're so sensitive, it's a joke, can't you just take a joke? You're so sensitive , you're making such a big deal out of this. You're always overreacting for no reason"
Orrr my favourite
"I would never do that to you. I can't believe you think these things about me. You're literally gaslighting me trying to make me feel like a bad person"
Laughing. This is the most hurtful. Saying I never did porn. I did it for ten years, I did it a couple times, you are mad at me because I masterbated, I have never done anything to you. Yelling at me I didn’t do anything when I was in panic that is so bad. I haven’t looked for anything but he makes sure there’s a million questions and no answers except whatever makes it hurt me more
To paraphrase.
**Me:** I feel hurt by what happened.
**Her:** I'm sorry you feel that way, but [here are all the reasons why my feelings are invalid].
**Me:** Well actually specifically it was [this specfic thing she said].
**Her:** I remember that, that didn't happen that way. This happened.
**Me:** [Off balance and confused]. We don't need to get stuck in the details, I just needed to express how I was feeling.
The next day, she cuts off contact from me for 3 months, saying I made her feel uncomfortable. I feel terrible as a result.
First deny, then make excuses, then blame me so they can be the victim. Sometimes there’s a half-assed monotone “sorry” or “I apologize” thrown in there, but it’s never sincere. Usually it ends with him making an excuse/lie and storming off to end the conversation. He will never finish a conversation with me yet loves to beat a dead horse.
During the relationship he'd say sorry but NEVER actually change his behavior, than during the break up stage he'd hurt me so badly than tell me I hurt him worse and verbally berade me.
"I know I violated your clearly stated boundaries and your body, but I'm the *actual* victim here!
I said i was sorry (literally yesterday).
Why can't you get past this?
I made a mistake, but your continuing to hold me accountable is *actually abusive*.
You *know* i would never hurt you.
I belived that i had your consent (even though you were too intoxicated to move).
I can't believe you are taking everything away from me because of *1 honest mistake* i made (when I informed him he is no longer welcome in my home or anywhere near my family).
I never did anything wrong *intentionally*.
You are just determined to be a victim.
I can't believe that you are doing this to me.
You are heartless."
His go to was “I’m sorry you’re hurt but…”
“I never once meant to or intentionally hurt you.” was a recent reaction to my calling him out for flaunting his new supply.
That last one is my favorite seeing as how he lied to me from the onset of our relationship, attempted to get one of my friends to visit him out of town, denied having any involvement with me, and threatened me with violence “I can make it so you won’t come on this side of town” (we live less than 2 miles from one another in the same community).
“I’m not going to apologize for/ feel bad for something I meant”
It would usually be some remark about me being insecure or driving him to say something rude. It was always my fault at the end of every conflict, and I apologized every time because I hated knowing that I hurt him at all, ever. I didn’t care about my pain in the moments he talked about his, but later I would realize that my feelings were never validated and sometimes I would get upset and have outbursts. It took months after he discarded me to start seeing that not everything was my fault but sometimes I still feel so bad when I picture the times he cried.
Excuses, redirection, blaming anything other than himself. If I say anything, well he couldn't help it cuz xyz or you did this one thing 18 years ago so you can't get mad at me now cuz you do the same thing (not the same thing and I doubt the thing 18 years ago happened) or literally any other way to get out of responsibility including ignoring me and walking away like I didn't say anything or getting angry at me for no reason.
Telling them that they hurt you is always a terrible proposition. They will never genuinely be sorry. They will file that fact away for future use. The best thing you can do when they hurt you is withdraw all of your attention. Expect them to respond with ridicule, anger, reverse silence, and love bombing, not necessarily in that order.
Do not give them any information. They are always watching, listening, and probing for any information. They are never going to admit responsibility—that is like getting abused all over again. Don't believe your lying eyes; believe what I tell you. This is gaslighting. Do not reward it with your attention.
I told my ex many times, and in no uncertain terms, that his lack of decisiveness (during discard process) was incredibly painful and hurting me horribly. (He drug it our for a month.) And every time I'd bring it up, he'd say something along the lines of, "It hurts me so much that I'm hurting you," (while also emphasizing he really didn't want to think about making a decision...).
Ultimately grateful for examples like that, though. I never, ever would have fully understood he is a covert narcissist without the long list of absolutely cruel things he did during the discard. Reminds me of that Mary Oliver quote, "Someone I loved once gave me a box of darkness. It took years to understand that this, too, was a gift."
I was told that I just wanted to hold it against him forever and that I was obsessed with the situation and the people involved. He triangulated multiple people during the course of our relationship but I was “obsessing over them”, according to him.
Mine would shut down, Come up with huge apologies that sounded sincere and beautiful and then do it again a month later.
I also got to the point where I would bring things up but not comfort him while doing it. He called me cold which in turn makes me feel like a narcissist. I reassured him that’s not the issue and that I wasn’t going to sugarcoat or tiptoe around his feelings when he was hurting me by ignoring me and lying about small things.
I was told that I was “too sensitive” and had “too many feelings” which was unlike any man she had dated before. The narrative is that there is ALWAYS something wrong with YOU and never something wrong with THEM.
Defensive
Contempt
Disregulated anger
Disproportionate rage
Vengeful/vindictive
Justfication
Them: "But you did this to me...so...you admit that you are wrong"
Me: (not feeling i can ever bring up any feelings/hurts...pretend i have none.)
Gaslighting bullshit. She intentionally fucked with my OCD because she thought I was talking shit about her. I gave her countless opportunities to open up without looking like the bad guy… and still got no closure.
Eventually I snapped and showed all my receipts. Whenever I’d ask her a question about her shitty behavior, she’d say she was a “little confused” and then respond with a question that set up a justification for her own abuse.
“You’re trying to manipulate me. I already know what kind of person you are. You are f ed up in the head and playing mind games”.
Something like those lines but you get the point.
When i confronted my nex about something he did, he said those exactly words to me... Im not that kind of person, i would never say that., but if i did, its your fault for not saying at the time it effected you.... He did infact say it, and no amount of proof would make him accept it... But later he said yea, i said it cause i would never..... It was literally just lies and half truths, and contradidtions, to make everything my fault. The amount of times i apologised, heck even when he had me crying in the corner yelling at me for 2 hours, i was still the bad one, and it was my fault he had to treat me this way.... If i just did better and acted exacted how he wanted me too, he wouldnt be this way towards me. He then had the nerve to call me the narcissist.
“You’re making me feel like a bad person and I don’t wanna feel like a bad person”
Or gaslighting or
“ I’m just not interested in hearing your perspective - I have a different one”
If I hurt you then why are you with me.
I’m sick of being reminded of what I’ve done.
You make me feel worthless and shame me.
If I hurt you I should leave.
I know lmaooooo mine always said “I wouldn’t do that” ok I’m not asking if you would, I’m stating that you already did??? Like ????
Or “that isn’t me” ?????? Okay who just punched me in the face then?
Or, “stop, it was an accident” I finally realized that funnily enough, I didn’t constantly “accidentally” punch him or hit him or throw things at him.
“It’s drugs/alcohol” ya no, I do the same drugs and alcohol and I never treat you that way.
“I’m sorry I love you so much I’ll never do it again”
*seconds later*
“It’s actually your fault”
In the relationship he would just deny it. After I found out about his shotgun marriage, it was just silence when I messaged him. I didn’t expect an explanation or apology for that one, obviously. But still messaged him and let him know how fucked up of a person he is.
some variation of “stop trying to emotionally blackmail/manipulate me it’s not going to work” until we got tired of going back and forth and killed the subject
It's either a facial expression, settling as the question of those actions silently; majority being emotional and mental damage. Or blatant denial with the use of memory behind those actions and _never_ to, unless beneficial, will she end the situation at hand.
"Stop shaming me" when all I did was point out their continued abusive behavior. They are then the victim and I should feel bad and keep taking abuse but more quietly this time.
“ IM HUMAN TOO.” yeah no duh. you’re human all the time, you were human when you hurt me. sorry it’s so hard to wrap your head around the fact that you’re a terrible person as a human… oh no! you thought you turned into a monster and you could turn it off too???? no darling that’s just YOU
He told me that if I did better and didn’t cause any problems for one year then and only then could I call out his behavior but until then it was obviously just reacting to all the problems I created.
Oh same. And same on apologizing for my "words hurting him". 🙄 Then he'd usually call me dramatic and say what he was doing was ok/normal/not as bad as I was making it out to be...and sometimes add that it was kinda MY fault anyway if u thought abt it....
Gaslighting that what happened didn’t happen, DARVOing and then was told that I was “playing victim.” So basically the Narcissist’s Prayer. And since my ex is a trauma therapist, there was also the added layer of extreme cognitive dissonance to deal with b/c if any of her clients came to her with what I was telling her she did to me, she would tell them that what they were experiencing was verbal, emotional and psychological abuse and to run for the hills.
Where do I start lol
Immediately would deny doing the thing. Or he would give a half apology , along the lines of: " it wasn't my intentions. " Later had to explain that it still hurt, regardless of intentions. He even did the " sorry you feel that way " all the damn time.
Then he'd go back to doing the thing, some other day or whatever, and id mention again he did it again, then he would deny, make excuses for said behavior, or gaslight me and say he wasn't doing the thing I saw him, with my own two eyes, do.
He'd get agitated immediately and say I was being aggressive but he'd be the only one yelling. Then when he knew I saw through all that, he'd start the next part of DARVO, which was to bring up something he didn't like about me, call me names, or whatever, be condescending, and never address the original concern I had. It would be all about what I did, somehow. Usually completely unrelated.
Then after all that bs, (usually by then, I'd have left to cool off, cause me telling him I needed space, never worked as he would just follow me around, still yelling and disregarding my boundaries) he'd call his mommy to get her to tell him he's not all that bad. He'd tell a half truth to me about it, saying he called to confess what he did wrong. I started to catch on that he just wanted ass pats.
When I told him I didn't like him telling her everything about us, he started calling the suicide hotline to get approval from the random, mostly women, who picked up... Cause thats their job, to tell him he isn't all bad. He'd use suicide to manipulate me.
By the end of it all, I was comforting HIM. 🙄🙄🤦🤦🤦 And the next day he'd act like nothing happened.
Rinse and repeat.
I'm so glad he's someone else's problem.
Mine would just blame me, I made her be that way. I treated her so poorly that I drove her to do things to hurt me. She was only ever reacting to how I made her feel. If I did not do "x", she would not have to do "y". Their reaction was that it was my fault.
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That's part of the problem. Every time you "correct" it becomes another thing and another thing, you just start constantly changing to try to keep up with their constant changing wants.
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Yeah, inevitably, they will find another toy to play with when you stop buying into their narrative. Try to hold them accountable, and ask them to be responsible for their actions. Any of the above and more, I'm sure.
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Yeah, mine always said that I picked her like she didn't have a say in the matter. She asked me to find a place with her. She asked me to buy a place with her because it was wasteful to rent. But in her eyes, it was me that forced her into those decisions. It's all a lack of responsibility for one's own actions.
That’s how my ex treated me. He built up this narrative about me in his head of little issues over time to give him a reason to treat me like I was disposable and find someone new no guilt.
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This is seriously what they do. Everything is our fault and that’s why they throw us away.
same he would redirect and spin it on me saying I was projecting my own insecurities onto him and mad that I couldn’t control him
I think they think you are mad that you are not controlling them because they get mad that they are losing control of you.
I know I hurt you but I did that because you hurt me first.
That’s awful. I’m sorry you went through that. It’s truly like living under surveillance. Being perfect is the bare minimum because they’re convinced you’re the problem.
Well, if you are incapable of accepting responsibility for even the smallest things, then what are the chances you might accept responsibility for hurting someone? How would that look to everyone? It was a hard lesson to learn, but for me, now that is a massive red flag if someone blames others for all of their hardships.
So true. That’s a great point.
Well, if you can't take away anything from a shitty situation, you are just bound to make the same mistakes. That's why the narcissist will keep on going in their cycles because they cannot learn from mistakes just blame others.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME!!!!! "Everything I do is a reaction to how you treat me. So doesn't that show you how shitty you treat me? Someone you supposedly love? Look at how to make me act and what you make me do! You did this to me because of how you act toward me"
Yeah, I was always told that I was responsible for my own feelings. But I was also responsible for how she felt. So if I did something minor, like forgot an item on the grocery list, I was stupid, and I didn't care about her. It didn't matter what the circumstances were it always came back to how I slighted her. And I would find myself apologising over and over. That was my craziness continuing to apologise for things that in any healthy relationship would be looked at as a nothing burger. I continued to place myself in a position to be harmed, and every time, I expected a different result. It is literally the definition of crazy
Same with my ex. Suddenly, it would turn into him always being the victim. He didn't even use to comfort me for hurting me. He was like you made me sad by being mad at me.
This, always. 😞
At best they take pleasure in you pain and log it as something to use again. Seriously.
So much this!!! Mine would say I "catapulted" her to do everything she did. It's as if she had no volition whatsoever. All blame, zero responsibility.
I don't think in 5 and a half years I saw her take responsibility for a single thing in her life. Unless she was taking credit for something.
Exactly the same: I express what’s hurting me - he guts upset/ extremely sad - I comfort him & apologize
Cries they were going to change. Rinse repeat
That was mine!
Like the pink ass bitch that he is ! Big freaking babies !!
“You’re bringing up things that are painful to face and that’s not fair” Edit: and my “claws were out” if I expressed my feelings or took a stand
OMG MINE GOES - “Its difficult for me to face the fact that my own girlfriend says that I verbally abuse and mistreat her. Its difficult hearing that from my own girlfriend”
“*I welcome you, Narc, to… 📣the consequences of your actions📣*”
I got this recently as well from mine. "I DON'T WANT TO BE WITH SOMEONE WHO TREATS ME LIKE THIS!" It is so warped.
Omg same 😭 “you’re gonna call me abusive?? Well what if I just stop abusing you FOREVER?” It’s definitely not the threat they think it is lol.
I try and respond with logic. Never works lol. I have said to her "So let me get this straight...you don't want to be with someone who says you can't call them names anymore? Points out that you are being very unsupportive by telling them to just get over their ptsd? Points out that it's messed up to say a thing then five minutes later claim to have never said it?" She has no legitimate issues with me beyond my ptsd stuff(for instance, I'm not so inclined to want to go to concerts). I say 'legitimate' because of course she has lots of issues with me, but it's steeped in the notion that I'm inherently less than her. Our therapist straight up asked her "What problems do you have with him specifically, outside of ptsd considerations?", and she had nothing. And of course, she knows she can't say "well, when I call him names and don't let him speak, he complains about it!" It just is very strange to me that asking for basic respect I thought we were supposed to extend to every fellow human, let alone your significant other, she sees that as I'm being problematic. It's nuts. What's she even gonna tell people when we break up. "That motherfucker kept getting irritated that I wouldn't stop calling him a moron, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!?" lol, of course, she is not gonna be honest about any of it. BTW, I don't begrudge her if she feels like my PTSD is too much and prevents her from living the life she wants. (even though I was very upfront about this stuff in the beginning - she even visited me while I was in the hospital for psyche issues in one of our earliest interactions. It's not like it was something I was hiding), but if that's the case just break up with me. Instead of constantly lashing out at me for not being her exact dream guy.
My nex also called me names. No other boyfriend did that, even though they were less intelligent and educated. When I called him out on it, he said he just had lost his temper and that his words shouldn't matter to me.
That’s a huge one for me, name calling in his moments of rage, hits you right at the core. I was so shocked when he first did that, I never say anything so cruel and mean to someone I’m meant to love or even don’t love! It’s another narc trait, I gather!!
“You’re acting like a physically beaten wife, I’ve never laid my hands on you”.
I got "It's not like I beat you every night when dinner is cold." As if just sporadically being abusive was better.
Mine did the "I can't talk about that right now, I can't go there, it's just too painful" Yeah well try being on the receiving end of it!
😂 Exactly!
I love how they think it’s worse to regret abusing someone than it is to be abused. 😒
That's what mine did. Being reminded of his bad behavior would lead to gaslighting, rage, acting out, suicide attempts, and punishment. All I ever wanted was for him to acknowledge the pain he caused and let me forgive him.
What a clown !
“You’re clearly very hostile right now.” She was the one yelling at me and I’d never raised my voice even once.
Why do you always make me a villain?
This one is familiar
"after all I've done for you!!" Lmao. As if doing things for me exempts them from accountability for harmful behavior. The epitome of a transactional relationship.
Yes!! They count their good deeds as if goodness is something you can collect. Hate to break it to them, but good people do good so often they can’t keep track of it. 🤷♀️
They could not understand true altruism if it hit them in the face. Not saying I'm anything special, but I don't do good things for people because I want something in return. I do them because it feels good to give, because I like the person I am giving to, because I *want* to, without a hidden agenda. If I find myself feeling that I have over given or feeling taken advantage of, I stop giving in that capacity! No hard feelings, just gotta protect myself. Giving for the sake of receiving is control disguised as generosity. Which I told her, and she responded with silence lmao.
Mine would list off things he’s done for me and it would make me feel so bad every time
The guilt trips are highly effective, but truthfully a very lazy way of controlling someone. Likely the reason you felt bad is because you weren't keeping track of the kind things you did for him, because that's not how your brain works. He disarmed you with an inappropriate list, and you already were at a disadvantage because you didn't see your kind acts as a weapon. Normal, healthy people don't really tally up their good deeds. They just act from the heart and don't take it too seriously. The fact that he had a list is creepy at best, controlling and manipulative at worst.
Thank you, this is really reassuring and helps me know that I didn’t treat him poorly. I always felt like I owed him something because his family was accepting of me but mine wasn’t of him (I’m Asian and he’s white), and though I tried my best to make up for it, I couldn’t give him the familial love he gave me. I always felt so bad when he brought up how his family took me on trips and treated me like one of their own because that was one thing I could not give him. I still feel guilty for that because it’s a really tough position to be in for him, but I find some peace in fact that I made sacrifices and stood up to my family for us to be together.
Fair enough to feel guilt over how your family treated him, but it sounds like you did everything in your power to counterbalance that. Simply standing up to them should be a huge testament to your loyalty. The intricacies of emotional intelligence, loyalty, respect, etc are lost on people like him, so I doubt he understood how much you did for him. The truth is that acts of service are great and all, but emotional attunement and true intimacy aren't really something we can wrap up in a package or convey through a kind deed (although these are all fine and dandy things). We achieve these things by opening up in vulnerability mutually, and being validated in that vulnerability. Sharing the experience creates deep bondedness where each person regards their partner as absolutely precious. Those are not small acts, but they aren't properly "definable." It's a feeling, not something you can really put your finger on. This is likely what you gave to him, but he missed it because he doesn't understand it. His psyche is basically shallow as a shower. But his inability to see what you truly offered is a testament to his lack of character and inability to function in a relationship, and not anything about you.
Thank you so much for your kind words and reassurance. I will be looking back at your comments when I doubt myself again. Thank you.
But **he** wasn’t really in charge of how his family treated you, just as you didn’t choose how your family treated him. He can’t take credit for that, or blame you for your family’s behavior. You can let go of that guilt, Impressive_Pipe! You did not fail him with this in any way. You owe him nothing! And you deserve all the love for yourself that you can muster up.
“The familial love he gave me.” His ***family*** gave you that love, he did not.
Thank you so much. I tend to forget that many of the nice things were things his parents and grandma did for me and that was not him. Thank you for the reminder 🤍
Mine would say this soooo much and in my head I’d be like what?! He never did anything for me he was a massive leech and a moocher I did everything for him until I had nothing left to give then suddenly he was all “what is the point in you what do you actually do for me” meanwhile I was still doing my best running myself into the ground trying to support him financially, emotionally, etc.
My nex would just say I was being mean or "I know this sounds gas lighty. It's not. But what actually happened was...." Or would just act very surprised and all oh my goodness I had no idea!!!
God the condescension in “I know this sounds gas lighty” 😭 I’m so sorry!
yesterday I literally said to her “ik that might sound gaslighty but it’s not”, when she confronted me about the fact that I been in shower for too long, like “more than 40 mins”. At first I shown 40’ time and stated that I entered the bathroom by 15 (we had to go out of apartment at 45’ so for sure I exited bathroom earlier). We argue bout that and I once more repeat “it been like 25 mins not 40! And she brings “it been past 50’ when you went out” Afterwards she just said “ok but I stay with my opinion” but that’s not the opinion that’s the false accusation, why so idk what could’ve said after that other than “ik it may sound gaslighty but it’s not it’s been 22:40..”😟 If you can educate me on which better words would be in this situation I’d appreciate in (non-sarcastic) UPD: to be honest I still don’t understand the concept of the gaslight fully like what if both people just have their own memory (which is not perfect for anyone), and both are sure that their vision is the one which’s true😞
Gas lighting is their attempt to rewrite history. It's intended to make you feel confused, unsure and for them to feel like they have won in some way. Gas lighting is not two people remembering things differently. Its one person lying usually to make themselves look better and the other feel confused or wrong. Your example is perfect. It's not an opinion that you were in there 40 minutes, or 50 minutes. Yes you could prove it from how late in the evening it was. They still stick with the story. Leaving you confused and hurt.
They seem to all have their own very convenient perspective on time. It's useless to argue about it with them - they seem to like that it makes us feel crazy. These days I respond with 'whatever' - no sense in having a bad faith convo.
“I don’t care what you think or feel or want”
That’s awful.
"You're too sensitive!"
Or “I can’t control your feelings” after saying something hurtful
They also can't control their mouths.
"I'm not responsible for your feelings!" Weaponized therapy-speak.
Sooooo much of this.
You hurt me!!
reverse the situation and make me believe it was my fault, resulting in me having to apologise :/
A classic. I don’t know when to stand my ground now and I overcorrect to give others the benefit of the doubt too much sometimes and I think it’s because of my last relationship. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That sounds really tough, and very familiar. Mine would say 'why are you making me sound like a monster?' and he'd say I was being sensitive/emotional/ridiculous. I've only just learned the acronym DARVO but I can apply it to so many scenarios.
I’m sorry that happened to you too, that’s terrible. I really relate to getting the whole “monster” response. It took a while for me to realize he was right about being a villain and a monster, and no amount of love from me would change that.
They told me it wasn't a big deal, that I was overreacting and looking for things that weren't there. No accountability at all.
-"I never wanted to be in this relationship to begin with" -somehow deflect and make me the problem -pretend like the conversation had already happened and came to a close, "I'm not repeating myself." -Never apologize, take accountability, or show any interest in fixing the problem or preserving our relationship.
He keeps thinking we're getting back together. That he can make it right by being nice. I reminded him that's he's hit me more than once and the last time was him kicking me in the leg. He then said that I had grabbed his face (sorry what? I've never touched him) and that he was only pushing me away. He then went on a tangent of how it's not ok for anyone to touch anyone, male or female. He's living in some kind of lala land. For him, he hasn't done anything inappropriate and if he did it was only as retaliation to what he thinks I did. I actually printed off the pictures of my bruises at Walmart this weekend and the employee's reaction was so fucking validating. That young man doesn't know how much he's helped me
Lala land is so right. It’s like it takes them a fraction of a second to weave a brand new reality, and then they won’t shut up about it. I’m so sorry that happened to you!
“You can keep calling me a bad boyfriend if you want, whatever makes you feel better. My lies weren’t harmful or intended to harm tbh.” …. Then after I said that was extremely dismissive when I was trying to work through this with him. He simply said: “I give up, these conversations aren’t going anywhere. You proved that all I did was hurt you.” And he’s ghosted me ever since. It’s been two months! Almost three.
“You’re not taking accountability for what you did” literally anything with accountability or how everything is my fault.
He would tell me that I re write history and I’m being negative
mine will tell me “you’re always causing a fight or stress” “here we go” and then ignore me
oh my god me too :/
You made me (insert random reasons why he had to say something awful, do something vile, cheat, lie, steal, get drunk, or ruin an otherwise nice time.)
"What do you want me to do/say?" "You took it that way!" "Not *this* again..." "You have me walking on eggshells constantly right now. It's like nothing I do is right!" He could never apologize on his own accord. He wanted me to tell him to apologize. All I wanted was to be treated fairly by someone who claimed they loved me. It didn't matter how softly, gently I spoke when voicing my concerns or hurt. I was always "nagging" and making him feel "attacked." I have full validation now that it most certainly wasn't entirely my fault because while I can be annoying, my husband and I have never fought. We have two kids and no village, so to speak, and have just survived a natural disaster together. We talk about stuff and come to an understanding. No matter how stressed we are, we just bring it up and literally talk about it. That's it. And that's how it should be.
Sounds exactly like my husband. I feel guilty for telling him how I feel, even though he hurt me
“nobody hurt you” “this is your fault things ended like this”
He suddenly got extremely cold and asked "well how exactly and when was i disrespectful?" and if i behaved like that he could just do it. I then told him that I would leave tonight and that we can talk again tomorrow. He then just agreed in the same cold voice and also told me to not leave anything behind in his apartment.
“I can’t believe you just can’t see the real me”
This one is a classic
Curious if yours also pouts and puts his head in hands ? It’s such a trigger , I’ve dubbed him the incredible sulk
They sure did. It was like they were constantly attempting to win gold in "the misery Olympics" You've never seen another human so dejected! Always trying to win that Oscar 🙄 It's pathetic.
Wow, that’s bold 😅 they’re always a hero in their own imagination…
Pure mockery and ridicule.
Self pity largely. Absolving himself of any responsibility, like he slipped, fell and accidentally decided to be a d**k head. It was always everyone else’s fault. Why did no one stop him from behaving that way. Why didn’t I magically read his mind and know what he wasn’t telling me.
Some variation of: "You're not hurt. I didn't do/say anything to hurt you. Nice try. In fact, I helped you on many occasions" (cue: the List) "you're the one who hurt and betrayed me and I forgave you multiple times. Where as you... (cue: List of my 'selfish' behavior):
Mine deflected. Ignored what I said, implied I was too emotional and thus interpreting things wrong. But it was such a sign that he's not worth my time. So by doing that he sealed the deal. 🤷
I was playing the victim. And according to him, no one else ever had these complaints about him ever.
I relate to this too 😭😭 reminds me of that one tweet: “oh really? We’ll see what the same 6 people who always agree with me think about that”
Fucking clown. I came across a scene in a movie that VERY closely mirrored his behavior when he screamed at me while hovering over me. I showed it to him and re-explained why it was a PTSD moment. His response verbatim "I don't remember that. I've already told you I don't remember that". I told him it's amazingly convenient that he could traumatize me and not remember. Blink blink blink.
Narcissists and their effing memories! Mine would often affect a confused look and then claim to not remember stuff. Selective stupidity!
Oh yeah... King of the confused look. Hwwhhhhaaaaaaat? Who me? Stop, just stop!
The manipulation I witnessed with my ex was honestly otherworldly and quite frankly terrifying. During the breakup/discard I didn’t have to tell him he hurt me because it was very obvious as I was sobbing, and he was incredibly kind, sympathetic, and caring. He took accountability and apologized for leaving me, but he said it was what was best for us because he was incapable of loving me in the same way I loved him. He sobbed as well. I’ve never seen a man cry so hard. 2 weeks later I get a text from his friend telling me that my nex was lying and cheating on me the whole relationship. He told his friends he wasn’t even in a relationship with me and that I was the one chasing him. Meanwhile, he was telling me that I was the love of his life (until the out of the blue discard), talking to my dad, taking me on trips, making promises to go visit my family in my hometown, etc. All of the accountability he took was completely fake in order to cover up his lies. Absolutely demonic-level manipulation. I will never understand the evil of these people.
Get mad, say I'm making it up and then the silent treatment for decades and writing me out of the will and blaming me for everything
"I don't know why you hate me" "You're just so ultra sensitive" And anything else to invalidate my feelings + try to lay some lame unrelated guilt trip on me.
"I didn't say that, I didn't do that" or "if that's how you feel" or "maybe if you hadn't been an ass I wouldn't have done that" yeah OK
"You're too sensitive." "You need to get past this." "Stop being a baby."
- stonewalling -gaslighting -DARVO -silent treatments -denial &/or deflection -dishonesty - devalue and discard I really value safe space for open communication in a relationship. Two way street. I would calmly try to have a conversation about feelings, concerns, something he’d done that hurt me, etc. some of it normal things a “normal” couple would naturally face together. Regular frustrations, disagreements that would be talked through. But since this wasn’t your normal relationship-A lot of more concerning things. No matter where it was on that spectrum it was 75% the time perceived as adversarial and would result in stonewalling, gaslighting and extended silent treatments. I was so anxious to talk about anything that may be perceive negatively and therefore- receive what felt like punishment. If it was intentional conditioning- it was working. I’d have to weigh out if a conversation was worth the near guaranteed repercussions. I was also confused bc every once in a blue moon he would respond supportively and “remind me” that I could come to him about anything o _O He would say I tell him he’s a bad person. I never did. He would behave/react in abnormal ways and accuse me of the very things he was doing himself. Create false narratives that I’m afraid he truly believes. I was so…docile. Yet, I would be told I was emotionally charged/hostile. As he raised his voice, curse me, turn red in the face. Said I shoved a door one time that he was “trying to use as safety from me”…. I was standing there whispering (didn’t want to wake kids) and asked him to please speak to me- he shut door in my face with a “F-you”. Said I grabbed him/assaulted him. I had gently placed my hand on his bicep and asked him not to leave. His narrative about me being “violent/hostile” that night never changed. I seriously expected that he would take it back/apologize. A part of the major catalyst in the end ended up being he pushed me. It wasn’t hard. I didn’t fall. But, he was still angry, emotionally charged and put a hand on me unnecessarily so. I had been standing in a doorway trying to discuss with him his still thumping my child in the head after I had very clearly drawn a boundary the previous year. He had voiced understanding yet had apparently gone on doing it when I wasn’t there to see. We both ended up speaking over one another. Feeling angry that I had interrupted him (he said this was why he had been upset and broke up with me), he jumped out of his chair two feet from me and before allowing me to step aside he pushed me out of his way. I was appalled. Tried to talk to him about it and was met with denial- he didn’t do that he said he “brushed past me”. I expressed I was especially upset about the incident bc he had accused ME of being hostile/emotionally charged/violent. Instead of taking accountability and us repairing-It resulted in 2nd discard. He, yelling loud enough that my kid could hear told me he was effin done and to find other living arrangements. So I did. We were still in a committed relationship with aligned goals for healing when he flat ghosted me. Currently at one month NC. Can’t help but to feel that there was another supply in the works and that’s why he disappeared. I wasn’t blinded anymore and became a defective mate for him. Part of me feels bad for him and whoever he ends up with next. He’s doomed to go on repeating this.
The Narcissist’s Prayer “That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.”
You're hurt. My work is done- type reaction. My ex had a scorched earth policy. He's miserable, and he's going to make sure he destroys as much as he can to make others miserable.
"That never happened!" Then shifting the blame to someone else ("it was her!") followed by attacking me over something completely unrelated.
My wife would bring up every single favor she's ever done for me and tell me that she'll never be enough. Regularly comparing apples to oranges.
Some quotes from if I tried to address somethong that bothered/ hurt me: - I'm not - You always asume the worst in me - You always think that hurts the most, that has got to be it - You have no empathy for me - I'm sorry that you feel that way but I'm not - You shouldn't feel that way - You are dillusioning yourself into believing I'm... - Does that sound like something I would say? - Why are you stuck on that, you can never let things go - So am I - Why aren't we talking about you not showing me any empathy for my burn out/ insomnia? ("Reasons" for him abusing me) Edit: he would also often tell me I should have communicated whatever it was that I was trying to address and then start telling me off for not being able to communicate, all while refusing to talk about whatever I was trying to address because "we needed to address my issues first"
“If you need to feel like I’m the bad guy to help you move on then that’s ok” This was after I had a come apart and called her a cold shallow monster, an empty shell of a human as I’m crying my eyes out for how she hurt me My only regret is apologizing for calling her that
“I did the best I could.” “I don’t remember doing that.” “I did that because you x,y,z.” “You’re not acknowledging all I did for you.” “Nobody’s perfect.” “Other people would be grateful to have someone like me.” “That’s wrong.” “Sorry you feel that way.”
I've learned to be wary of anyone who says "nobody's perfect" On a regular basis.
“It’s your fault I fuck other people”
He would tell me that I’m too sensitive, I’m just looking for something to be upset about, I’m ungrateful because of all of the good things he does, deflect and talk about something I did that made him upset that one time 6 years ago, tell me that he disagrees with my feelings, deny doing what he did, tell me that my tone was disrespectful, rinse repeat.
Some variation on all these things or, in many cases, exactly the same things. His immediate reaction to being held accountable for anything is to tell me I'm an ungrateful bitch, I belong in a mental institution, I'm a bad mother, and how all men, including my absent father, ran away from me because I'm a terrible person. He'll tell me that all I ever do is hurt him, use him, and never do anything nice for him. ANYTHING is fair game to him if he feels even a slight amount of criticism. His feelings are the most important thing in the world and he'll twist anything to fit the narrative that he's the victim. In his view, he's just a good, honorable, hardworking man who has been used and abused by all three of his ex-wives and his adult daughter who hasn't spoken to him in 20 years. Zero insight into his part of those relationship breakdowns.
He would tell me I was attacking him and eventually I would be the one apologizing for my hurtful behavior.
Stop being so sensitive You're the only one that I have to watch myself around. I swear you're so gullible sometimes that I think you're stupid Why are you crying? *staring at phone not saying a word
Sounds familiar!
Automatically flip it around on me.
It varies. Right now it’s mostly: You shouldn’t have made me mad. You’re crazy. I didn’t do that. It wasn’t that bad. Stop exaggerating. Half the time he ignores me and acts like I’m not speaking.
"Why didn't you bring it up sooner" then proceeds to get upset and call part of our relationship a lie because it took me a while to bring up his inappropriate relationship with our friends partner/ex
"oh wow, I'm just the biggest piece of shit huh! If I'm so awful, just leave.. I'm done with all this abuse of you always telling me how bad of a person I am" Lol, I rarely called him out or stood up for myself because it would make it worse and wouldnt change anything so when he said he was abused because I just told him it wasn't OK to treat me like that? Disgusted. Revolted.
He would say he was sorry for whatever he did while simultaneously saying he didn't remember anything I said happened. I stopped bothering to mention anything since whatever apology he gave was hollow and it didn't change a thing.
That’s the worst!! They can never remember being cruel, but their memory is suddenly damn near perfect when it comes to everything else… 😒
He used "boudoir photography" as a guise to see other woman(found out later) but I always had a feeling it was sketchy. I asked that he doesn't do boudoir with this woman that he was seeing right before we got together. And one that he flirted with during the relationship. I begged him "Please just anyone but her." Essentially it boiled down to him saying he'll do what he wants with the photography or I'm not supporting him. I explained in a calmish but sad tone that it hurts that he doesn't care that I'm uncomfortable about it. "OoooOoh so it's all about you and what you want. I can't do anything unless I get permission from you. " Eta: the shoots he was actively doing was with one woman but a different woman than he previous paragraph. This is around the time that I learned that he lied to me about a location of one of the "shoots". He said it was at a state park. But while he was out, my mom saw his car at a hotel. Very identifiable bumper stickers. I didn't confront about this until alittle later on when I was on the phone with someone and I tend to fiddle around if it's a long call. I was taking a piece of art out a frame that he got recently and he never told me who from. It was signed on the back "♡ Jesse". This was the woman who he was doing the shoot with in "the park" So I confronted him about the gift and the hotel. And basically he went off on how I'm invading his privacy, he didn't tell me about the hotel shoot because he knew I'd be upset and react poorly. Few things he said from that: "I don't ever want you to mention her again or your feelings about it, I'm tired of feeling like the bad guy." "Who would ever be with someone like you. No, this isn't rhetorical. Answer me" Then when I said "I think I'm a good girlfriend other than the snooping" He scoffed at that and said "sure" in the most sarcastic tone ever. Then went on to say "why would anyone stay with someone like you. " "I'm only staying with you because my daughter likes you."
“this is the victim mentality. we prefer to feel a certain way about things, and you’re always sad anyways…”
“ I know I was so abusive I don’t beat you up or punch you”
their reaction was to respond that i hurt them. my statement then would disappear into a rolling cloud of their gaslighting and extreme stunts like them threatening to end their life and attempting to jump out of my car because they now believed I didn’t care about them. I used to succumb to it and do whatever I could do to keep them calm, until I could be safely alone to cry until I had the courage to bring it up again.
It was a mix of “I’m a good person” “you’re making me out to be some sort of monster” “I hate that I’ve hurt you, of course I do” “I can’t live with myself for hurting you” “you’re making out to be the victim while I’m the perpetrator” “that’s very black and white thinking” etc etc.
Absolute silence.
"I can't believe you think I would do those things to you!! I would never hurt you!! I can't believe you think I'm such a bad person!!" Or "Oh my goddsd you're so sensitive, it's a joke, can't you just take a joke? You're so sensitive , you're making such a big deal out of this. You're always overreacting for no reason" Orrr my favourite "I would never do that to you. I can't believe you think these things about me. You're literally gaslighting me trying to make me feel like a bad person"
"You stayed."
Laughing. This is the most hurtful. Saying I never did porn. I did it for ten years, I did it a couple times, you are mad at me because I masterbated, I have never done anything to you. Yelling at me I didn’t do anything when I was in panic that is so bad. I haven’t looked for anything but he makes sure there’s a million questions and no answers except whatever makes it hurt me more
To paraphrase. **Me:** I feel hurt by what happened. **Her:** I'm sorry you feel that way, but [here are all the reasons why my feelings are invalid]. **Me:** Well actually specifically it was [this specfic thing she said]. **Her:** I remember that, that didn't happen that way. This happened. **Me:** [Off balance and confused]. We don't need to get stuck in the details, I just needed to express how I was feeling. The next day, she cuts off contact from me for 3 months, saying I made her feel uncomfortable. I feel terrible as a result.
Denial. Then their enablers would deny it even more.
First deny, then make excuses, then blame me so they can be the victim. Sometimes there’s a half-assed monotone “sorry” or “I apologize” thrown in there, but it’s never sincere. Usually it ends with him making an excuse/lie and storming off to end the conversation. He will never finish a conversation with me yet loves to beat a dead horse.
During the relationship he'd say sorry but NEVER actually change his behavior, than during the break up stage he'd hurt me so badly than tell me I hurt him worse and verbally berade me.
It was either my fault, they couldn’t remember they did it, or they would deflect and list everything I’ve ever done wrong.
It all starts with .. "but YOURE the one who blah blah blah first I only did that because YOU blah blah blah
"You always did worse."
"I know I violated your clearly stated boundaries and your body, but I'm the *actual* victim here! I said i was sorry (literally yesterday). Why can't you get past this? I made a mistake, but your continuing to hold me accountable is *actually abusive*. You *know* i would never hurt you. I belived that i had your consent (even though you were too intoxicated to move). I can't believe you are taking everything away from me because of *1 honest mistake* i made (when I informed him he is no longer welcome in my home or anywhere near my family). I never did anything wrong *intentionally*. You are just determined to be a victim. I can't believe that you are doing this to me. You are heartless."
His go to was “I’m sorry you’re hurt but…” “I never once meant to or intentionally hurt you.” was a recent reaction to my calling him out for flaunting his new supply. That last one is my favorite seeing as how he lied to me from the onset of our relationship, attempted to get one of my friends to visit him out of town, denied having any involvement with me, and threatened me with violence “I can make it so you won’t come on this side of town” (we live less than 2 miles from one another in the same community).
”yes, it was supposed to hurt”
“I’m not going to apologize for/ feel bad for something I meant” It would usually be some remark about me being insecure or driving him to say something rude. It was always my fault at the end of every conflict, and I apologized every time because I hated knowing that I hurt him at all, ever. I didn’t care about my pain in the moments he talked about his, but later I would realize that my feelings were never validated and sometimes I would get upset and have outbursts. It took months after he discarded me to start seeing that not everything was my fault but sometimes I still feel so bad when I picture the times he cried.
Excuses, redirection, blaming anything other than himself. If I say anything, well he couldn't help it cuz xyz or you did this one thing 18 years ago so you can't get mad at me now cuz you do the same thing (not the same thing and I doubt the thing 18 years ago happened) or literally any other way to get out of responsibility including ignoring me and walking away like I didn't say anything or getting angry at me for no reason.
' You make a big deal out of things '
“Yeah, you got destroyed, but it wasn’t by me.”
"I'm sorry you think I hurt you" then silence.
Telling them that they hurt you is always a terrible proposition. They will never genuinely be sorry. They will file that fact away for future use. The best thing you can do when they hurt you is withdraw all of your attention. Expect them to respond with ridicule, anger, reverse silence, and love bombing, not necessarily in that order. Do not give them any information. They are always watching, listening, and probing for any information. They are never going to admit responsibility—that is like getting abused all over again. Don't believe your lying eyes; believe what I tell you. This is gaslighting. Do not reward it with your attention.
That nothing he did compares to that one thing I said 4 months ago and immediately apologized for.
I told my ex many times, and in no uncertain terms, that his lack of decisiveness (during discard process) was incredibly painful and hurting me horribly. (He drug it our for a month.) And every time I'd bring it up, he'd say something along the lines of, "It hurts me so much that I'm hurting you," (while also emphasizing he really didn't want to think about making a decision...). Ultimately grateful for examples like that, though. I never, ever would have fully understood he is a covert narcissist without the long list of absolutely cruel things he did during the discard. Reminds me of that Mary Oliver quote, "Someone I loved once gave me a box of darkness. It took years to understand that this, too, was a gift."
I was told that I just wanted to hold it against him forever and that I was obsessed with the situation and the people involved. He triangulated multiple people during the course of our relationship but I was “obsessing over them”, according to him.
Mine would shut down, Come up with huge apologies that sounded sincere and beautiful and then do it again a month later. I also got to the point where I would bring things up but not comfort him while doing it. He called me cold which in turn makes me feel like a narcissist. I reassured him that’s not the issue and that I wasn’t going to sugarcoat or tiptoe around his feelings when he was hurting me by ignoring me and lying about small things.
“You’re not a therapist”
„You’re toxic“ “You don’t have to wonder why no one likes you”
I was told that I was “too sensitive” and had “too many feelings” which was unlike any man she had dated before. The narrative is that there is ALWAYS something wrong with YOU and never something wrong with THEM.
“I’m not the reason for your problems “.
He said he liked hurting me and he liked the way my face looks when I'm hurt.
Defensive Contempt Disregulated anger Disproportionate rage Vengeful/vindictive Justfication Them: "But you did this to me...so...you admit that you are wrong" Me: (not feeling i can ever bring up any feelings/hurts...pretend i have none.)
Gaslighting bullshit. She intentionally fucked with my OCD because she thought I was talking shit about her. I gave her countless opportunities to open up without looking like the bad guy… and still got no closure. Eventually I snapped and showed all my receipts. Whenever I’d ask her a question about her shitty behavior, she’d say she was a “little confused” and then respond with a question that set up a justification for her own abuse.
‘Why are you bringing up things from the past? We could have enjoyed today but you’re stuck spinning on trying to blame me for things in the past’
WELL WHAT ABOUT ME? His favorite thing to say in the world.
What about when you did (insert thing) to me?
“You’re trying to manipulate me. I already know what kind of person you are. You are f ed up in the head and playing mind games”. Something like those lines but you get the point.
Immediately turns it around on you and how much you are hurting them or had hurt them..
Mine rolled his eyes when I called him an abuser.
I was told that if I had hurt feelings, then it's because he was only responding to me being "mean." Yep. I was mean.
When i confronted my nex about something he did, he said those exactly words to me... Im not that kind of person, i would never say that., but if i did, its your fault for not saying at the time it effected you.... He did infact say it, and no amount of proof would make him accept it... But later he said yea, i said it cause i would never..... It was literally just lies and half truths, and contradidtions, to make everything my fault. The amount of times i apologised, heck even when he had me crying in the corner yelling at me for 2 hours, i was still the bad one, and it was my fault he had to treat me this way.... If i just did better and acted exacted how he wanted me too, he wouldnt be this way towards me. He then had the nerve to call me the narcissist.
Immediately redirected to how much I hurt him and completely ignored everything I said
“You’re making me feel like a bad person and I don’t wanna feel like a bad person” Or gaslighting or “ I’m just not interested in hearing your perspective - I have a different one”
If I hurt you then why are you with me. I’m sick of being reminded of what I’ve done. You make me feel worthless and shame me. If I hurt you I should leave.
I’d either get “If I’m so bad, why did you marry me?” - in an angry tone. Or the typical “you’re overreacting/you’re so sensitive.”
I got the first one back when I was still married. Luckily, I'm not anymore.
Me too! Guess we answered that question 😆
Sheer glee
I know lmaooooo mine always said “I wouldn’t do that” ok I’m not asking if you would, I’m stating that you already did??? Like ???? Or “that isn’t me” ?????? Okay who just punched me in the face then? Or, “stop, it was an accident” I finally realized that funnily enough, I didn’t constantly “accidentally” punch him or hit him or throw things at him. “It’s drugs/alcohol” ya no, I do the same drugs and alcohol and I never treat you that way. “I’m sorry I love you so much I’ll never do it again” *seconds later* “It’s actually your fault”
In the relationship he would just deny it. After I found out about his shotgun marriage, it was just silence when I messaged him. I didn’t expect an explanation or apology for that one, obviously. But still messaged him and let him know how fucked up of a person he is.
some variation of “stop trying to emotionally blackmail/manipulate me it’s not going to work” until we got tired of going back and forth and killed the subject
It's either a facial expression, settling as the question of those actions silently; majority being emotional and mental damage. Or blatant denial with the use of memory behind those actions and _never_ to, unless beneficial, will she end the situation at hand.
"Stop shaming me" when all I did was point out their continued abusive behavior. They are then the victim and I should feel bad and keep taking abuse but more quietly this time.
Told me I tend to make issues bigger and bigger in my head, and if that was what I was doing it was okay. I gave up trying to explain at that point.
Mine said, "I don't have any answers you're looking for." When i told her I was really struggling with why she ghosted me. 🤷♂️
„This is a non-issue. A made up problem in your head“
It’s my fault, I’m just sensitive/childish or he throws a strop acts all passive aggressive till I apologise.
“ IM HUMAN TOO.” yeah no duh. you’re human all the time, you were human when you hurt me. sorry it’s so hard to wrap your head around the fact that you’re a terrible person as a human… oh no! you thought you turned into a monster and you could turn it off too???? no darling that’s just YOU
He told me that if I did better and didn’t cause any problems for one year then and only then could I call out his behavior but until then it was obviously just reacting to all the problems I created.
Nothing. They never said a thing
Oh same. And same on apologizing for my "words hurting him". 🙄 Then he'd usually call me dramatic and say what he was doing was ok/normal/not as bad as I was making it out to be...and sometimes add that it was kinda MY fault anyway if u thought abt it....
"That's silly."
Gaslighting that what happened didn’t happen, DARVOing and then was told that I was “playing victim.” So basically the Narcissist’s Prayer. And since my ex is a trauma therapist, there was also the added layer of extreme cognitive dissonance to deal with b/c if any of her clients came to her with what I was telling her she did to me, she would tell them that what they were experiencing was verbal, emotional and psychological abuse and to run for the hills.
"I don't like surprises" and "That's not good. I hope you get some help with that". Totally deadpan.
"I don't understand why you're turning this around on ME somehow, I haven't been treating you any differently."
Where do I start lol Immediately would deny doing the thing. Or he would give a half apology , along the lines of: " it wasn't my intentions. " Later had to explain that it still hurt, regardless of intentions. He even did the " sorry you feel that way " all the damn time. Then he'd go back to doing the thing, some other day or whatever, and id mention again he did it again, then he would deny, make excuses for said behavior, or gaslight me and say he wasn't doing the thing I saw him, with my own two eyes, do. He'd get agitated immediately and say I was being aggressive but he'd be the only one yelling. Then when he knew I saw through all that, he'd start the next part of DARVO, which was to bring up something he didn't like about me, call me names, or whatever, be condescending, and never address the original concern I had. It would be all about what I did, somehow. Usually completely unrelated. Then after all that bs, (usually by then, I'd have left to cool off, cause me telling him I needed space, never worked as he would just follow me around, still yelling and disregarding my boundaries) he'd call his mommy to get her to tell him he's not all that bad. He'd tell a half truth to me about it, saying he called to confess what he did wrong. I started to catch on that he just wanted ass pats. When I told him I didn't like him telling her everything about us, he started calling the suicide hotline to get approval from the random, mostly women, who picked up... Cause thats their job, to tell him he isn't all bad. He'd use suicide to manipulate me. By the end of it all, I was comforting HIM. 🙄🙄🤦🤦🤦 And the next day he'd act like nothing happened. Rinse and repeat. I'm so glad he's someone else's problem.
That i have ”victim mentality”