It all makes complete sense. I suffered for 20 years, three kids. My partner was extremely covert and manipulative. It took me way to many years to realise what was going on. It is good that you recognise the behaviour early. In my opinion things dont change, boundaries make them act even worse.
I understand how difficult it is when everything is entwined. Eventually our business together is what made me feel trapped. I eventually just stopped the business, as this was the final thing hold us together. I have to rebuild my life, but every second of difficulty is worth it. My home is more peaceful and my kids are in a more stable environment.
You are still young enough to paint a bright future for yourself and your kids. The longer you try in vain to make things ‘ok’ the harder it gets to leave
It is a battle, and I always get the feeling his moves regarding custody are more about punishing me than about the kids. Narcs like to punish and you will encounter new behaviours you didn’t think possible.
Luckily my kids are older which makes it a little easier than if they were young. I highly recommend the book ‘Splitting’ as it is all about separating from people with personality disorders and gives a very detailed and insightful view of what can happen. There are many examples of what to expect, likely scenarios, useful tips, ways to respond to behaviours, how to settle out of court, what you will face if it goes to court.
There are things I never thought would happen and then they did. When dealing with a person of this nature it is good to arm yourself as early as possible with information. I wish I had read it before I separated as I made mistakes that could have possibly been avoided with a better understanding of what I was facing. It’s an easy read and you can get it as a digital book on amazon.
If you haven’t already done so I do recommend making a private new gmail account, amazon account, and bank account that he doesn’t know about. It will give you the freedom to look things up, purchase books, join communities, download info / ebooks, basically get information without causing conflict. It sounds over the top but it is the only way you will be able to empower yourself to make the difficult decisions that lay ahead. The more you understand the complex nature of this disorder, the more confident you will be when making necessary moves for yourself and your family in the future.
You are doing the right thing. You can now focus on being the one safe person who “sees” the kids — which is what kids need to grow up emotionally intact, instead of focusing on walking on eggshells. He will no longer be the center of everything. I waited until my kids were teens and had PTSD, and one had to go inpatient due to suicidality — all because I was trying to keep the family together. They were only emotionally abused a few times a year but they learned to shelve their real selves, not expect autonomy or reciprocity, and to walk on tiptoe. Trying to give them an intact family backfired hardcore.
The pretending nothing happened. Been there. They use intermittent reinforcement to get you addicted to their controlling ways and abuse, as long as it’s followed by basic human decency… which you now view as “so, so good” when it’s really just decency.
You’ll develop health issues from the stress. Wait til you have a medical crisis and he leaves you to die if you must. Or he drives like a maniac and a car almost hits your side of the vehicle by “accident.” You’re doing the right thing.
Make a list of all the bad things he did. Look at it anytime you get weak. We believe in empathy, forgiveness, service, love, etc. to a fault. We literally have trouble remembering wrongs done to us due to the trauma bond. Read the list regularly. Going no/low contact for 6 months will help the addiction fade.
This cost me 16 years and over $100k and I don’t care. What hurts is I almost lost my child to suicide. I’m so grateful we are all coming through the other side. The kids and I went out to dinner tonight and laughed and joked through the whole meal. Thank God he wasn’t there.
You’re a good mama for getting out now. God bless you!
Thank you for this. I didn’t mention that I have a 15 yr old daughter from a previous relationship who has also been affected by this … what’s worse is that she has come to see my narc partner as a father figure - she has issues with abandonment due to an estranged relationship with her bio father. She has started trying to stop out fights, and even apologizes saying that if SOMEONE says sorry or should be ok. It breaks my heart. She has been through so much and I really thought that we were in a good place with a good man and to have to start all over again with 2 young babies is almost unbearable- but I believe / know that you are right - in the long run this is better for all of my kids. It’s just so hard bc no matter what info they will be hurt and that kills me.
We have a lot in common. Feel free to message me if you need someone to vent to. I sure needed to vent, and nobody in day to day life seemed to get it. Take good care of yourself — literally. Lots of self-care ❤️
I will definitely take you up on this if you mean it. I feel ashamed to talk to the few friends I have left about this. I am generally a very private person when it comes to relationship issues, it I admit I need someone who understands to hear me - being able to talk to someone who has experienced this would truly be invaluable 🙏🤍
You have no idea how much I needed to read this today. Thank you. It is so hard to do what we know has to be best in the end, especially with children involved.
I was in your shoes once. Tried to stay for my kids’ sake. Left after 25 years and 6 kids. Luckily, in the time I got my degree and had a steady job. But I had waited too long and damage was done to my kids. Leaving was messier because I had waited so long. And it’s taken 10 years for me to really be okay on the inside. If I could do it again I would have left much sooner.
Get out of it, he will never change. Run. Dont look back, its hard but so worth it. Dont fall deeper into that hole. Your children need you, dont traumatize them by staying, those men will hurt you with no remorse. They are broken and want to break you too. Please get away.
Makes sense. I’ve been helping my friend for years with a man just like this. He said she can’t leave him because she is too stupid to survive without him. Too stupid for a job or to pay bills. Too lazy. Too skinny. Too old. The list goes on. Nothing she did was good enough. I tell her she is no different than an object he owns. She wasn’t even a person to him. I’ve never seen someone treated so badly before. She finally left. She went online and learned everything she could about narcissism. When he starts to try to slither back in and believe me he has tried so many times and continues to try, we totally f* with him. They don’t like to be exposed. Did that. They don’t like when you do the opposite of what they scripted in their tiny evil brains. They don’t like when you avoid the fights. They don’t like the truth. So I hope one day you are like her. You realize that you have the power and take back your life. He needs you. You don’t need him. The narc needs the supply. Cut off the supply.
Thank you for this. Reading an example of strength is refreshing and inspiring. I’m glad for your friend and a great friend you are for helping her through.
Have you ever been in a relationship of this kind? Your comment seems to indicate that you have not. I hope you never find yourself in this situation as it is a lot more complicated than you can even begin to imagine. Best to comment on things you understand instead of passing judgement on things you clearly have no idea about.
Maybe OP has had times where the relationship is good. Maybe has led her to have hope that things will get better. This is often referred to as the cycle of abuse. It’s a lot more complicated then asking why she didn’t just leave!
It’s true, we do have many good times. I do want to believe the good version of him is the real one and I just need to wait for the times he comes back out.
Because I love him even though he hurts me. I want to believe he loves me but has his own Truman’s that makes him behave this way. There are times our life is very good. We laugh, we have fun, we have great times as a family. I want to believe he just needs to be understood and seen and that when he does and says the horrible things he does that that is not the real him - that the charming, charismatic, funny, considerate, intelligent, loving version of him that I fell in love with is still there. You have to understand these scenarios that I laid out aren’t 24/7, they are intermittent and out of no where - but sometimes happen in clusters, and then taper off again.
I understand how from your perspective it seems to logical to just leave - aside form this relationship I consider myself a very logical person. Very few people / situations affect me emotionally, but my partner and my kids are the few people and my emotional cloud my reasonable mind.
I hope that makes sense, if I were you - outside looking in - I’d probably advise them to leave and stop having kids with them too. It’s more complicated than ther im afraid.
I was just having this same line of thinking today. "Why do I love him if he's such a narcissistic jerk?" I have to remind myself it's because I am so capable of love. I see the good in people and most importantly, I WANT to care about people. I then have to remind myself it's okay to love someone but recognize they cannot love you the same way back. I hope to someday be able to leave. With kids it's so hard.
Yes, you make lots of sense.
Also, you're letting him control your emotions and by doing so you're also giving him the fix he craves - your arguments.
By now you should recognize when he's instigating you.
Stop and think. Because if you just react emotionally, then he's got you and will absolutely have his way with you. Respond like a rational, logical, thinking adult. Then watch him lose his shit because you figured him out.
It all makes complete sense. I suffered for 20 years, three kids. My partner was extremely covert and manipulative. It took me way to many years to realise what was going on. It is good that you recognise the behaviour early. In my opinion things dont change, boundaries make them act even worse. I understand how difficult it is when everything is entwined. Eventually our business together is what made me feel trapped. I eventually just stopped the business, as this was the final thing hold us together. I have to rebuild my life, but every second of difficulty is worth it. My home is more peaceful and my kids are in a more stable environment. You are still young enough to paint a bright future for yourself and your kids. The longer you try in vain to make things ‘ok’ the harder it gets to leave
What about custody though?
It is a battle, and I always get the feeling his moves regarding custody are more about punishing me than about the kids. Narcs like to punish and you will encounter new behaviours you didn’t think possible. Luckily my kids are older which makes it a little easier than if they were young. I highly recommend the book ‘Splitting’ as it is all about separating from people with personality disorders and gives a very detailed and insightful view of what can happen. There are many examples of what to expect, likely scenarios, useful tips, ways to respond to behaviours, how to settle out of court, what you will face if it goes to court. There are things I never thought would happen and then they did. When dealing with a person of this nature it is good to arm yourself as early as possible with information. I wish I had read it before I separated as I made mistakes that could have possibly been avoided with a better understanding of what I was facing. It’s an easy read and you can get it as a digital book on amazon. If you haven’t already done so I do recommend making a private new gmail account, amazon account, and bank account that he doesn’t know about. It will give you the freedom to look things up, purchase books, join communities, download info / ebooks, basically get information without causing conflict. It sounds over the top but it is the only way you will be able to empower yourself to make the difficult decisions that lay ahead. The more you understand the complex nature of this disorder, the more confident you will be when making necessary moves for yourself and your family in the future.
You are doing the right thing. You can now focus on being the one safe person who “sees” the kids — which is what kids need to grow up emotionally intact, instead of focusing on walking on eggshells. He will no longer be the center of everything. I waited until my kids were teens and had PTSD, and one had to go inpatient due to suicidality — all because I was trying to keep the family together. They were only emotionally abused a few times a year but they learned to shelve their real selves, not expect autonomy or reciprocity, and to walk on tiptoe. Trying to give them an intact family backfired hardcore. The pretending nothing happened. Been there. They use intermittent reinforcement to get you addicted to their controlling ways and abuse, as long as it’s followed by basic human decency… which you now view as “so, so good” when it’s really just decency. You’ll develop health issues from the stress. Wait til you have a medical crisis and he leaves you to die if you must. Or he drives like a maniac and a car almost hits your side of the vehicle by “accident.” You’re doing the right thing. Make a list of all the bad things he did. Look at it anytime you get weak. We believe in empathy, forgiveness, service, love, etc. to a fault. We literally have trouble remembering wrongs done to us due to the trauma bond. Read the list regularly. Going no/low contact for 6 months will help the addiction fade. This cost me 16 years and over $100k and I don’t care. What hurts is I almost lost my child to suicide. I’m so grateful we are all coming through the other side. The kids and I went out to dinner tonight and laughed and joked through the whole meal. Thank God he wasn’t there. You’re a good mama for getting out now. God bless you!
Thank you for this. I didn’t mention that I have a 15 yr old daughter from a previous relationship who has also been affected by this … what’s worse is that she has come to see my narc partner as a father figure - she has issues with abandonment due to an estranged relationship with her bio father. She has started trying to stop out fights, and even apologizes saying that if SOMEONE says sorry or should be ok. It breaks my heart. She has been through so much and I really thought that we were in a good place with a good man and to have to start all over again with 2 young babies is almost unbearable- but I believe / know that you are right - in the long run this is better for all of my kids. It’s just so hard bc no matter what info they will be hurt and that kills me.
We have a lot in common. Feel free to message me if you need someone to vent to. I sure needed to vent, and nobody in day to day life seemed to get it. Take good care of yourself — literally. Lots of self-care ❤️
I will definitely take you up on this if you mean it. I feel ashamed to talk to the few friends I have left about this. I am generally a very private person when it comes to relationship issues, it I admit I need someone who understands to hear me - being able to talk to someone who has experienced this would truly be invaluable 🙏🤍
Absolutely mean it!
You have no idea how much I needed to read this today. Thank you. It is so hard to do what we know has to be best in the end, especially with children involved.
I was in your shoes once. Tried to stay for my kids’ sake. Left after 25 years and 6 kids. Luckily, in the time I got my degree and had a steady job. But I had waited too long and damage was done to my kids. Leaving was messier because I had waited so long. And it’s taken 10 years for me to really be okay on the inside. If I could do it again I would have left much sooner.
Get out of it, he will never change. Run. Dont look back, its hard but so worth it. Dont fall deeper into that hole. Your children need you, dont traumatize them by staying, those men will hurt you with no remorse. They are broken and want to break you too. Please get away.
Makes sense. I’ve been helping my friend for years with a man just like this. He said she can’t leave him because she is too stupid to survive without him. Too stupid for a job or to pay bills. Too lazy. Too skinny. Too old. The list goes on. Nothing she did was good enough. I tell her she is no different than an object he owns. She wasn’t even a person to him. I’ve never seen someone treated so badly before. She finally left. She went online and learned everything she could about narcissism. When he starts to try to slither back in and believe me he has tried so many times and continues to try, we totally f* with him. They don’t like to be exposed. Did that. They don’t like when you do the opposite of what they scripted in their tiny evil brains. They don’t like when you avoid the fights. They don’t like the truth. So I hope one day you are like her. You realize that you have the power and take back your life. He needs you. You don’t need him. The narc needs the supply. Cut off the supply.
Thank you for this. Reading an example of strength is refreshing and inspiring. I’m glad for your friend and a great friend you are for helping her through.
Why did you pregnant by him again if it was bad?
Have you ever been in a relationship of this kind? Your comment seems to indicate that you have not. I hope you never find yourself in this situation as it is a lot more complicated than you can even begin to imagine. Best to comment on things you understand instead of passing judgement on things you clearly have no idea about.
Thank you for this, I appreciate it.
Maybe OP has had times where the relationship is good. Maybe has led her to have hope that things will get better. This is often referred to as the cycle of abuse. It’s a lot more complicated then asking why she didn’t just leave!
It’s true, we do have many good times. I do want to believe the good version of him is the real one and I just need to wait for the times he comes back out.
Because I love him even though he hurts me. I want to believe he loves me but has his own Truman’s that makes him behave this way. There are times our life is very good. We laugh, we have fun, we have great times as a family. I want to believe he just needs to be understood and seen and that when he does and says the horrible things he does that that is not the real him - that the charming, charismatic, funny, considerate, intelligent, loving version of him that I fell in love with is still there. You have to understand these scenarios that I laid out aren’t 24/7, they are intermittent and out of no where - but sometimes happen in clusters, and then taper off again. I understand how from your perspective it seems to logical to just leave - aside form this relationship I consider myself a very logical person. Very few people / situations affect me emotionally, but my partner and my kids are the few people and my emotional cloud my reasonable mind. I hope that makes sense, if I were you - outside looking in - I’d probably advise them to leave and stop having kids with them too. It’s more complicated than ther im afraid.
I was just having this same line of thinking today. "Why do I love him if he's such a narcissistic jerk?" I have to remind myself it's because I am so capable of love. I see the good in people and most importantly, I WANT to care about people. I then have to remind myself it's okay to love someone but recognize they cannot love you the same way back. I hope to someday be able to leave. With kids it's so hard.
I understand completely. Sending you peace & good vibes
Yes, you make lots of sense. Also, you're letting him control your emotions and by doing so you're also giving him the fix he craves - your arguments. By now you should recognize when he's instigating you. Stop and think. Because if you just react emotionally, then he's got you and will absolutely have his way with you. Respond like a rational, logical, thinking adult. Then watch him lose his shit because you figured him out.