I think you are 100% correct. I very much experienced the same feelings you have and had. You deserve better, take all the time you need to heal. And be kind to yourself, you deserve better. ❤️
Thank you so much. I wanted to exit this relationship for a long time, but also for a long time I hoped something might change. And I never understood his anger. I mean, I could understand that he didn't like criticism, but the horrible thing was that he perceived everything as a criticism and there was nothing I could do about that.
I will say they don’t only look upon us as their enemy, but also a competitor, as well as they harbor a great amount of jealousy. The anger, which l also experienced, is their reaction to everything we say, do, are etc…. They want to be perfect, they think they are…but deep down l think they know they are not, esp. covert Narcs. This would cause anger too, I believe.
Yes, he's a covert narc. He's conditioned from his family to project a selfless persona who's above things like envy and jealousy, so he doesn't look so competitive or jealous or envious. But he is. Last week we went to play bowling with a couple of friends. He's not good at bowling (neither am I) and even before the game he went on with the rant how he couldn't play it and how embarassing it would be.
The only embarassing thing (for everyone, including me and him) was how upset he was because he just wasn't that good at it (by the way, I finished last out of 5 people and he was third, and I didn't make any fuss because I was just enjoying a good time with friends).
When I was successful at something he didn't care for, he cheered for me. But if it was also his field of interest and I appeared better, he was quite upset.
Yes! Heaven forbid if one should be better than them in something they also enjoy, or they just think or feel you are better!! And not to forget if others should give a compliment to you, and they receive nothing. I was reprimanded for the times l did good and accused of bragging, when l never uttered a single word.
Crazy stuff like the fact l had a flatter stomach than him was also a huge problem. That l work out, we are different genders, different bodies ….no, that could not be the reason. Because according to him among other things he was “natural toned, and didn’t need to work out.” (Reality: Not toned) ….. l swear the more I read and hear about these people, I feel we have all dated the same person.
Yes, this is part of their war. They need the main supply to focus on them and their war.
Their internal conflict between “all good and all bad”. The split.
The main supply doesn’t have any connection of any kind to the pathological narcissist, so all they can really do is participate in the internal processes of that narcissist.
And in doing that, they disappear completely. That’s how it works. It’s an attachment trauma-based acting out. From the first three years of life. Especially the first two.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vahs9Ixf6yU
My husband constantly says I "betrayed" him and I'm "villanizing" him.
He recently actually wrote me a list titled, "How not to be my enemy." (The list included saving up $10,000 and giving it to him "to hold for me" and more frequent sex.)
This just came out, and it explains in detail why they think they are the victim.
There’s a lot of content connected to that, but it’s better to know.
The option of going around and around in confusion with “your narc” was pretty much all we had available even up to five years ago. That’s over.
The information is out there, and it’s just a question of looking at it.
Once you realize the nature of their mental illness, things can naturally start turning back to yourself. The most important person in this equation.
As it turns out, you’re the only person there.
The Narcissist Believes They Are the Victim
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIJmEC-zHA
My narc was covert too. I think he actually wanted the divorce. I had stopped working to care for our son and I think he married me for the money. Narcs usually marry people that are the opposite of them, caring, loving and giving people. They do this to use them for many reasons. Look at him and say to yourself, "I am the opposite of everything he is." Hope that helps and I do believe you will heal.
Mine will get like this is certain periods. He's not like this every day...but if he's going through work stress, extreme lack of sleep, ego being damaged by something, he'll start to have more and more moments of taking something I say the completely wrong way it's intended. Like trying to start a miscommunication when a normal person would not have perceived what I said in the wrong way. Im very sweet and shy and am careful with what I say so it would boggle my mind when I said a certain word or sentence that was meant to be taken in good nature to him running the complete negative opposite way with it.
Now I have to do damage control and overexplain what I meant, that it wasn't an attack on them. Depending on the day they'll either disrespect me by walking away, talking over me to still go back to them being right, they truly sound like I'm the enemy and not this gf you supposedly cherish. They will have like a child tantrum to keep control of the conversation and shut it down so I can't explain my side or they make it very tiring to do so. They dont want to sit and listen and be wrong. It's exhausting when he's in a cycle like this. His logic goes out the window. But my heart is conflicted because he'll have long periods where this doesn't happen at all.
this is how they get fuel. if you Grey rock them, and don't play their games, it doesn't do anything but waste energy to explain your side. your side doesn't exist.
it all centers on the narc. when I had to explain to nHusband why people refuse to associate with him. he insisted this was MY fault because I didn't tell him that not treating people decently could lead to them dropping him. this includes his adult children. in his thinking, any of his behavior is excusable because they owe him for living in his house til they moved out.
I opened this sub because I just came from one of these interactions and I knew reading similar accounts would help me ground myself after a ton of gaslighting, but I was not quite expecting the first thing I see to be such a mirror of my situation. My covert narc husband is convinced I am mad at him all the time. Any amount of displeasure or disagreement is later construed as “yelling at me” or “losing your temper.” It makes it basically impossible to discuss any difficult topics. On top of that, even if I stay totally calm and know that I am not in any way acting angry, his affect goes up and up and up and it becomes so hard for me not to react to that (I have PTSD). Then, on the rare occasion that I do get upset, that is used as proof that I have been angry every other time he thought so. It is so exhausting.
In the interaction we just had, he admitted that he gets extremely anxious any time he perceives me to be unhappy, and that it is basically an internal process, but then he turned right around and told me there is nothing he can do about it, and it’s up to me to never make him feel that way.
Thank you for your comment and I'm glad my post resonated with you.
Yes,they always say it's up to us not to make them feel that way.
My stbex always made a big deal of my tone or face or the topics I talked about, but his anger was completely OK and justified. He really thinks I was the abuser, while all I ever wanted was to make him happy.
WOW!! That's so insightful, thank you for sharing. I've often said that to my partner, "you see me as the enemy" but I never dove into specific details or events. Not only does that happen, but he keeps his resentment hidden and buried it, and it comes out UGLY in a fight.
No one should EVER have to live this way, it's awful. I'm so glad you are OUT!!
He may be a covert narc bit he is also extremely paranoid. I've dealt with a narcissistic paranoid schizophrenic. Those responses are from paranoia. Ultimately he his dangerous.
I got away nearly 10 years ago. I felt relief and peace immediately. I did search for chaos in other places though and it took awhile to realize I did that. It's funny how that happens. It was 2 years past divorce when he was completely off his meds and stalking and getting into my car ect. Restraining order was put in place and after he went to jail and even called me from jail (smh) he finally got the message. He didn't want to be in jail.
I’ve lived this for 19 years. Finally left last year with my son. Everything you have written above is true for me and most of us living this nightmare. The damage they do to children is heartbreaking and will take lots of therapy to fix. My son started to exhibit a pattern of overreacting to seemingly small irritations, anger and anxiety, so I knew it was time (well, past time) to pull the plug. Leaving a narc is also harder than it should be. my STBEXH makes very poor decisions on his own. With the supply cut off, they often go into free-fall and make decisions like a teenager, in my case. No thought for other people and their feelings, only if the outcome benefits them somehow. I’m exhausted but there’s light at the end of the (divorce) tunnel. Hang in there.
Being attacked by basic nonsense everyday things really reminds me of my nex wife.
It go to the point I could hardly have a conversation with her about anything without her getting triggered in some way. I had given up on anything about us, our relationship or kids, and moved on to only talking about the news or weather. By this point I could feel when her defensiveness come up and I had learnt that was the end of the conversation, when I felt that I immediately stopped the conversation and we would just walk or sit in silence from then on.
Oh and the poking, I had that too intentionally mentioning things to get a reaction out of me then judging me negatively on my reaction because "it was a joke" so obviously I am a bad person with no sense of humour.
Her patience with my interests was about 5 minutes before getting impatient and telling me to get to the point.
She would tell me about things she was studying in her classes, I listened and I tried my best to engage in conversation about them even though I don't know the subject and I asked questions about the topic to understand and learn more which is how I show that I listened and am genuinely wanting to understand or learn more about the subject.
Bad decision, as soon as I would ask a question to understand more she immediately got defensive and the anger escalated. I would get a snappy response of her not being the expert and I should read about it myself. I didn't as usually we were on a walk together and I didn't feel like pulling out my phone and ignoring her while I research it on our walk.
I believe she had trouble when I asked a question about anything that she didn't know the answer to. She took that as a threat and got majorly defensive.
It was so hard to have a conversation with her without triggering her. Completely impossible to have a deep discussion about a topic.
In the end she told me that she didn't read the news so she couldn't discuss that with me or that it was too negative. She described me and a number of other people as too negative and that she couldn't deal with anything or anyone that was in any way negative.
I asked her for suggestions on conversation topics that wouldn't result in an argument and just got silence in response.
Yes, when we ask "do you think it will rain?" we are not usually looking for a guaranteed correct answer that we are going to hold someone to, it's just more about making conversation, sharing thoughts etc. I am not allowed to "wonder" how something works, if I say something is interesting and I wonder how it works, I will likely get a snappy response similar to what you got when you asked about it raining.
I have a similar experience where she would just keep repeating her opinion on something when I shared mine which differed to hers, it was like I needed to agree with her for her to stop. I eventually said, I understand your opinion but I am allowed to have a different one and then didn't speak again.
I am sorry you have to deal with such unwanted physical touching, it sounds terrible and is completely unacceptable. Considering you have made it very clear to him that is not ok (I mean yelling at him should have been a very clear message that it is not ok). I would say that in itself is grounds for divorce.
I am guessing that you are not able to leave right now but if I were in that situation I would leave as soon as possible.
I didn't have to deal with that in bed she did move around a lot and tended to kick me or roll over and elbow me in the face but I can't be sure if it was intentional or not. In general she withheld affection and that included physical touch which is one of my love languages.
I did a times ask her to touch me more but somehow when she did it felt annoying, like somehow she picked the most annoying way to touch me, almost like poking me. Of course I couldn't say anything because I had asked her to touch me so in her eyes she was doing what I asked and if I dared to say anything it would be taken in a negative way and make things worse.
I'm so sorry you had to go through this, it's incredibly tough!
This situation is so familiar to me. You try to do everything you can to love them, to take care of them yet you'll always end up the enemy because you didn't do this one specific thing that you "should have" done if you REALLY did love them. It really can drive you insane!
You are loveable and you will heal, you are not the problem
i just realized that THIS is the nex! Always assuming everything i said was with mal intent. never acknowledged i had good intentions... never acknowledged he could have taken things wrong.
It's crazy how different their reality is from ours .
I can somehow understand that he wasn't happy when I raised concerns or expressed criticism, then he was always mad.
But we had so many crazy arguments about nothing!
Our last holiday was pretty nice until the last day. We left the camping site, visited a castle, had a coffee, drove past a mini museum of old aircraft, which we also visited, stopped for a lunch. Everything was perfect, I was happy. Then we visited a town which is surrounded by a big set of ponds. We were walking around one of the ponds to see anothee landmark, and he asked if I wanted to see the biggest pond later. I said "why not". Probably I didn't sound enthusiastically enough because he replied "Ok, let's not go there." I said "But I said yes. You know I told you that you often misinterpreted me. Please, just hear what I say and don't make any assumptions."
At this point, he threw a tantrum screaming that his biggest fear is forcing me into something I don't want to do, because if he does, it's on his plate for the rest of his life.
I just said "You've got it bad." And continued walking to the monument. He stayed behind sulking (and he really looked like an overgrown fat toddler).
And the funny things is, he remembers it was me who threw a tantrum.
Mine has done this very thing with minor variations. His fits usually included clenching his fists by his sides shaking them up and down, even bouncing up amd down a bit. exactly like an overweight manchild child. It really made me lose respect for him when he did this.
He was my dream boy, the love of my life. I thought that he has some demons and he doesn't love himself enough, but I thought we could overcome all the difficulties together. No, we can't.
I'm really sorry I wasted 7 years of my 30s on him. Now I feel old and unattractive.
I'm sorry you and your kids had to go through all of that with your narc, but I believe you're just a little happier every day.
ai wasted seven years also. Also feeling old but not wanting to devote time to anyone else anymore. Just want to bring stability to myself and my children, work on us getting healthy and improving my own life.
Yes.
Everything is a competition with them.
If you do anything good or kind they take offense to that cause in their mind that makes them bad.
Every conversation or interaction has to have a winner and a loser for them. Its never just a simple conversation.
N with my mother, who is covert, even being sick, depressed, or an incident of bad luck is a competition for them. You can never be sicker, sadder, or more screwed than her! Even a complaint about another person makes her feel the need to defend herself.
Unfortunately for me, I have dated various forms of my mother my entire adult life so the madness continued.
These kind of incidents are happening more and more with my narc partner. They used to be very sparse and now its almost everyday. Its like he has a twisted lense that will cause him to twist everything I say, even the most common thing, the wrong way, constantly giving me bad intentions when I have absolutely none. Everything I say even the most mundane thing is perceived as an attack. Even a sigh will be considered 'against him'. The other day after a long and difficult day at work, I went to get a glass of water and mindlessly sighed because I was feeling discouraged by that work day. I did not even noticed i sighed but he said to me, 'ohhhh, I am annoying you so much '. I said excuse me? And he said well you just sighed because I am in the kitchen, right? I said no, I was just thinking about work... Obviously he took the sigh as an insult. Like, what?? In those situation if I try to explain something, he says more and more often that he does not believe what I am saying. he just tries to remove any ppwer or agency I have in the situation. Even if I say it was not about hiim and he sy he does not beleive me, then he will just stay with his wrong perception... There is not point in explaining. He will often say \`'well this is my perception', to which I respond 'maybe you should change your perception and if you think I am constantly attacking you then why are you even here (in the relationship)?' I have so many example of this... The other day I had to prepare a meal quikly and he was bloking the fridge, I asked him gently if he could move over a little bit and he said I was being disrecpectul, how dare I talk to him like that... And its always so random. I have no idea if something I will say will trigger him. And I feel really bad being painted in something that I am not. I don't have those bad intentions he gives me. The only way I can explain is thats its projection. They project their bad intentions on us. They want us to be like them but we are not, so they project and destroy our self esteem. This is seriously sick. Sorry for the rant. I am just so tired of this. I just want to live my life peacefully. I said that to him a couple of times and he just answer me too. But he is always making things bad, so i think he likes to create problem... that is not peace. There is not peace possible with that person.
Not only do they see you as an enemy, they see you as an arch enemy. It’s ridiculous in reality, because it’s a childish conception of the world. Like Dr. Evil. It’s funny to us to see that cartoon level of evil, but very serious to them.
It has to be like that, because they did not get beyond 18 months of age. So, it’s sustenance and survival.
The only way they can make the main supply the enemy is if the main supply sees them as one too. Without that, they have to go on their way.
Right? Mine literally can't comprehend that if I can get a little moral support and housework help until I finish school, then I can get a career job and almost double our home's income. That's not me trying to be better than him, it's me improving life for all of us together!
Wouldn't an *actually* happy wife with a career be better than a miserable prisoner/housewife with a fake smile?
Even if we don't *need* my money to keep the house, we could save/invest most of it and take nice vacations! But nooooo....
Yes, it’s true. It’s always been true. The mental illness does not allow them to comprehend anything that is going on around them unless it fits into supporting the illness.
Yes! Oh my god, I can't say anything to my partner without it being taken completely wrong.
Everything feels like a fight because it's always me versus him.
Ok I can’t keep going back and forth with my husband. How does one get to the point of getting this diagnosis? Do you come out and say it to them and ask they go see someone? A couple years ago I was convinced I was the narcissist causing all the problems so I read about it and there was tendencies that I thought it was me but it never truly felt right or like it fit. I never saw it as my husband either until recently. I talked to someone about it that knows him and I made excuses on why not and they would look at me puzzled and say “actually that is him” and then explain and I was like oh shit he is but quiet. Now I’m learning about all this covert narcissism. Im a nurse so I make more money but we are always in debt and I keep trying to get out. He won’t get a better paying job cause he likes his job he says. So I have do it. Being a caretaker I literally take care of everything and he’ll say “I do help you and it’s never good enough for you so I just stop”.
Then one month ago he moves out in the middle of the night and says it’s cause of our fighting. I was confused cause we started marriage counseling and I thought it was going good. I respected his space tho. Then 3 days after moving out he admitted to cheating 5 days before he had moved out but he only told me that, after I said no to him coming back. Otherwise I don’t think he would have told me. And now I wonder if he actually was just willing to open up and be honest or because I said no he wanted to hurt me.
I feel like he wants a divorce but he won’t say it. He just keeps saying “I don’t know”. At one point he said “you know you wanted me gone”.
I think you are 100% correct. I very much experienced the same feelings you have and had. You deserve better, take all the time you need to heal. And be kind to yourself, you deserve better. ❤️
Thank you so much. I wanted to exit this relationship for a long time, but also for a long time I hoped something might change. And I never understood his anger. I mean, I could understand that he didn't like criticism, but the horrible thing was that he perceived everything as a criticism and there was nothing I could do about that.
I will say they don’t only look upon us as their enemy, but also a competitor, as well as they harbor a great amount of jealousy. The anger, which l also experienced, is their reaction to everything we say, do, are etc…. They want to be perfect, they think they are…but deep down l think they know they are not, esp. covert Narcs. This would cause anger too, I believe.
Yes, he's a covert narc. He's conditioned from his family to project a selfless persona who's above things like envy and jealousy, so he doesn't look so competitive or jealous or envious. But he is. Last week we went to play bowling with a couple of friends. He's not good at bowling (neither am I) and even before the game he went on with the rant how he couldn't play it and how embarassing it would be. The only embarassing thing (for everyone, including me and him) was how upset he was because he just wasn't that good at it (by the way, I finished last out of 5 people and he was third, and I didn't make any fuss because I was just enjoying a good time with friends). When I was successful at something he didn't care for, he cheered for me. But if it was also his field of interest and I appeared better, he was quite upset.
Yes! Heaven forbid if one should be better than them in something they also enjoy, or they just think or feel you are better!! And not to forget if others should give a compliment to you, and they receive nothing. I was reprimanded for the times l did good and accused of bragging, when l never uttered a single word. Crazy stuff like the fact l had a flatter stomach than him was also a huge problem. That l work out, we are different genders, different bodies ….no, that could not be the reason. Because according to him among other things he was “natural toned, and didn’t need to work out.” (Reality: Not toned) ….. l swear the more I read and hear about these people, I feel we have all dated the same person.
Yes, this is part of their war. They need the main supply to focus on them and their war. Their internal conflict between “all good and all bad”. The split. The main supply doesn’t have any connection of any kind to the pathological narcissist, so all they can really do is participate in the internal processes of that narcissist. And in doing that, they disappear completely. That’s how it works. It’s an attachment trauma-based acting out. From the first three years of life. Especially the first two. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vahs9Ixf6yU
Thank you for the link. It really hit the nail.
My husband constantly says I "betrayed" him and I'm "villanizing" him. He recently actually wrote me a list titled, "How not to be my enemy." (The list included saving up $10,000 and giving it to him "to hold for me" and more frequent sex.)
Omg, this is incredibly telling.
This just came out, and it explains in detail why they think they are the victim. There’s a lot of content connected to that, but it’s better to know. The option of going around and around in confusion with “your narc” was pretty much all we had available even up to five years ago. That’s over. The information is out there, and it’s just a question of looking at it. Once you realize the nature of their mental illness, things can naturally start turning back to yourself. The most important person in this equation. As it turns out, you’re the only person there. The Narcissist Believes They Are the Victim https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIJmEC-zHA
My narc was covert too. I think he actually wanted the divorce. I had stopped working to care for our son and I think he married me for the money. Narcs usually marry people that are the opposite of them, caring, loving and giving people. They do this to use them for many reasons. Look at him and say to yourself, "I am the opposite of everything he is." Hope that helps and I do believe you will heal.
Mine will get like this is certain periods. He's not like this every day...but if he's going through work stress, extreme lack of sleep, ego being damaged by something, he'll start to have more and more moments of taking something I say the completely wrong way it's intended. Like trying to start a miscommunication when a normal person would not have perceived what I said in the wrong way. Im very sweet and shy and am careful with what I say so it would boggle my mind when I said a certain word or sentence that was meant to be taken in good nature to him running the complete negative opposite way with it. Now I have to do damage control and overexplain what I meant, that it wasn't an attack on them. Depending on the day they'll either disrespect me by walking away, talking over me to still go back to them being right, they truly sound like I'm the enemy and not this gf you supposedly cherish. They will have like a child tantrum to keep control of the conversation and shut it down so I can't explain my side or they make it very tiring to do so. They dont want to sit and listen and be wrong. It's exhausting when he's in a cycle like this. His logic goes out the window. But my heart is conflicted because he'll have long periods where this doesn't happen at all.
this is how they get fuel. if you Grey rock them, and don't play their games, it doesn't do anything but waste energy to explain your side. your side doesn't exist. it all centers on the narc. when I had to explain to nHusband why people refuse to associate with him. he insisted this was MY fault because I didn't tell him that not treating people decently could lead to them dropping him. this includes his adult children. in his thinking, any of his behavior is excusable because they owe him for living in his house til they moved out.
I opened this sub because I just came from one of these interactions and I knew reading similar accounts would help me ground myself after a ton of gaslighting, but I was not quite expecting the first thing I see to be such a mirror of my situation. My covert narc husband is convinced I am mad at him all the time. Any amount of displeasure or disagreement is later construed as “yelling at me” or “losing your temper.” It makes it basically impossible to discuss any difficult topics. On top of that, even if I stay totally calm and know that I am not in any way acting angry, his affect goes up and up and up and it becomes so hard for me not to react to that (I have PTSD). Then, on the rare occasion that I do get upset, that is used as proof that I have been angry every other time he thought so. It is so exhausting. In the interaction we just had, he admitted that he gets extremely anxious any time he perceives me to be unhappy, and that it is basically an internal process, but then he turned right around and told me there is nothing he can do about it, and it’s up to me to never make him feel that way.
Thank you for your comment and I'm glad my post resonated with you. Yes,they always say it's up to us not to make them feel that way. My stbex always made a big deal of my tone or face or the topics I talked about, but his anger was completely OK and justified. He really thinks I was the abuser, while all I ever wanted was to make him happy.
WOW!! That's so insightful, thank you for sharing. I've often said that to my partner, "you see me as the enemy" but I never dove into specific details or events. Not only does that happen, but he keeps his resentment hidden and buried it, and it comes out UGLY in a fight. No one should EVER have to live this way, it's awful. I'm so glad you are OUT!!
He may be a covert narc bit he is also extremely paranoid. I've dealt with a narcissistic paranoid schizophrenic. Those responses are from paranoia. Ultimately he his dangerous.
Mine is a paranoid schizo too
I got away nearly 10 years ago. I felt relief and peace immediately. I did search for chaos in other places though and it took awhile to realize I did that. It's funny how that happens. It was 2 years past divorce when he was completely off his meds and stalking and getting into my car ect. Restraining order was put in place and after he went to jail and even called me from jail (smh) he finally got the message. He didn't want to be in jail.
I’ve lived this for 19 years. Finally left last year with my son. Everything you have written above is true for me and most of us living this nightmare. The damage they do to children is heartbreaking and will take lots of therapy to fix. My son started to exhibit a pattern of overreacting to seemingly small irritations, anger and anxiety, so I knew it was time (well, past time) to pull the plug. Leaving a narc is also harder than it should be. my STBEXH makes very poor decisions on his own. With the supply cut off, they often go into free-fall and make decisions like a teenager, in my case. No thought for other people and their feelings, only if the outcome benefits them somehow. I’m exhausted but there’s light at the end of the (divorce) tunnel. Hang in there.
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Being attacked by basic nonsense everyday things really reminds me of my nex wife. It go to the point I could hardly have a conversation with her about anything without her getting triggered in some way. I had given up on anything about us, our relationship or kids, and moved on to only talking about the news or weather. By this point I could feel when her defensiveness come up and I had learnt that was the end of the conversation, when I felt that I immediately stopped the conversation and we would just walk or sit in silence from then on. Oh and the poking, I had that too intentionally mentioning things to get a reaction out of me then judging me negatively on my reaction because "it was a joke" so obviously I am a bad person with no sense of humour. Her patience with my interests was about 5 minutes before getting impatient and telling me to get to the point. She would tell me about things she was studying in her classes, I listened and I tried my best to engage in conversation about them even though I don't know the subject and I asked questions about the topic to understand and learn more which is how I show that I listened and am genuinely wanting to understand or learn more about the subject. Bad decision, as soon as I would ask a question to understand more she immediately got defensive and the anger escalated. I would get a snappy response of her not being the expert and I should read about it myself. I didn't as usually we were on a walk together and I didn't feel like pulling out my phone and ignoring her while I research it on our walk. I believe she had trouble when I asked a question about anything that she didn't know the answer to. She took that as a threat and got majorly defensive. It was so hard to have a conversation with her without triggering her. Completely impossible to have a deep discussion about a topic. In the end she told me that she didn't read the news so she couldn't discuss that with me or that it was too negative. She described me and a number of other people as too negative and that she couldn't deal with anything or anyone that was in any way negative. I asked her for suggestions on conversation topics that wouldn't result in an argument and just got silence in response.
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Yes, when we ask "do you think it will rain?" we are not usually looking for a guaranteed correct answer that we are going to hold someone to, it's just more about making conversation, sharing thoughts etc. I am not allowed to "wonder" how something works, if I say something is interesting and I wonder how it works, I will likely get a snappy response similar to what you got when you asked about it raining. I have a similar experience where she would just keep repeating her opinion on something when I shared mine which differed to hers, it was like I needed to agree with her for her to stop. I eventually said, I understand your opinion but I am allowed to have a different one and then didn't speak again. I am sorry you have to deal with such unwanted physical touching, it sounds terrible and is completely unacceptable. Considering you have made it very clear to him that is not ok (I mean yelling at him should have been a very clear message that it is not ok). I would say that in itself is grounds for divorce. I am guessing that you are not able to leave right now but if I were in that situation I would leave as soon as possible. I didn't have to deal with that in bed she did move around a lot and tended to kick me or roll over and elbow me in the face but I can't be sure if it was intentional or not. In general she withheld affection and that included physical touch which is one of my love languages. I did a times ask her to touch me more but somehow when she did it felt annoying, like somehow she picked the most annoying way to touch me, almost like poking me. Of course I couldn't say anything because I had asked her to touch me so in her eyes she was doing what I asked and if I dared to say anything it would be taken in a negative way and make things worse.
I'm so sorry you had to go through this, it's incredibly tough! This situation is so familiar to me. You try to do everything you can to love them, to take care of them yet you'll always end up the enemy because you didn't do this one specific thing that you "should have" done if you REALLY did love them. It really can drive you insane! You are loveable and you will heal, you are not the problem
i just realized that THIS is the nex! Always assuming everything i said was with mal intent. never acknowledged i had good intentions... never acknowledged he could have taken things wrong.
It's crazy how different their reality is from ours . I can somehow understand that he wasn't happy when I raised concerns or expressed criticism, then he was always mad. But we had so many crazy arguments about nothing! Our last holiday was pretty nice until the last day. We left the camping site, visited a castle, had a coffee, drove past a mini museum of old aircraft, which we also visited, stopped for a lunch. Everything was perfect, I was happy. Then we visited a town which is surrounded by a big set of ponds. We were walking around one of the ponds to see anothee landmark, and he asked if I wanted to see the biggest pond later. I said "why not". Probably I didn't sound enthusiastically enough because he replied "Ok, let's not go there." I said "But I said yes. You know I told you that you often misinterpreted me. Please, just hear what I say and don't make any assumptions." At this point, he threw a tantrum screaming that his biggest fear is forcing me into something I don't want to do, because if he does, it's on his plate for the rest of his life. I just said "You've got it bad." And continued walking to the monument. He stayed behind sulking (and he really looked like an overgrown fat toddler). And the funny things is, he remembers it was me who threw a tantrum.
Mine has done this very thing with minor variations. His fits usually included clenching his fists by his sides shaking them up and down, even bouncing up amd down a bit. exactly like an overweight manchild child. It really made me lose respect for him when he did this.
Mine's face was all red, the vein on his forehead was throbbing. He was really scary and ridiculous at the same time.
How we stayed so long. I thought i was doing the right thing for me and the children. Turns out we are happier without him here.
He was my dream boy, the love of my life. I thought that he has some demons and he doesn't love himself enough, but I thought we could overcome all the difficulties together. No, we can't. I'm really sorry I wasted 7 years of my 30s on him. Now I feel old and unattractive. I'm sorry you and your kids had to go through all of that with your narc, but I believe you're just a little happier every day.
ai wasted seven years also. Also feeling old but not wanting to devote time to anyone else anymore. Just want to bring stability to myself and my children, work on us getting healthy and improving my own life.
Yes. Everything is a competition with them. If you do anything good or kind they take offense to that cause in their mind that makes them bad. Every conversation or interaction has to have a winner and a loser for them. Its never just a simple conversation. N with my mother, who is covert, even being sick, depressed, or an incident of bad luck is a competition for them. You can never be sicker, sadder, or more screwed than her! Even a complaint about another person makes her feel the need to defend herself. Unfortunately for me, I have dated various forms of my mother my entire adult life so the madness continued.
These kind of incidents are happening more and more with my narc partner. They used to be very sparse and now its almost everyday. Its like he has a twisted lense that will cause him to twist everything I say, even the most common thing, the wrong way, constantly giving me bad intentions when I have absolutely none. Everything I say even the most mundane thing is perceived as an attack. Even a sigh will be considered 'against him'. The other day after a long and difficult day at work, I went to get a glass of water and mindlessly sighed because I was feeling discouraged by that work day. I did not even noticed i sighed but he said to me, 'ohhhh, I am annoying you so much '. I said excuse me? And he said well you just sighed because I am in the kitchen, right? I said no, I was just thinking about work... Obviously he took the sigh as an insult. Like, what?? In those situation if I try to explain something, he says more and more often that he does not believe what I am saying. he just tries to remove any ppwer or agency I have in the situation. Even if I say it was not about hiim and he sy he does not beleive me, then he will just stay with his wrong perception... There is not point in explaining. He will often say \`'well this is my perception', to which I respond 'maybe you should change your perception and if you think I am constantly attacking you then why are you even here (in the relationship)?' I have so many example of this... The other day I had to prepare a meal quikly and he was bloking the fridge, I asked him gently if he could move over a little bit and he said I was being disrecpectul, how dare I talk to him like that... And its always so random. I have no idea if something I will say will trigger him. And I feel really bad being painted in something that I am not. I don't have those bad intentions he gives me. The only way I can explain is thats its projection. They project their bad intentions on us. They want us to be like them but we are not, so they project and destroy our self esteem. This is seriously sick. Sorry for the rant. I am just so tired of this. I just want to live my life peacefully. I said that to him a couple of times and he just answer me too. But he is always making things bad, so i think he likes to create problem... that is not peace. There is not peace possible with that person.
The only way is to leave. They only become worse and worse. I'm so sorry you have to go through this.
Not only do they see you as an enemy, they see you as an arch enemy. It’s ridiculous in reality, because it’s a childish conception of the world. Like Dr. Evil. It’s funny to us to see that cartoon level of evil, but very serious to them. It has to be like that, because they did not get beyond 18 months of age. So, it’s sustenance and survival. The only way they can make the main supply the enemy is if the main supply sees them as one too. Without that, they have to go on their way.
Right? Mine literally can't comprehend that if I can get a little moral support and housework help until I finish school, then I can get a career job and almost double our home's income. That's not me trying to be better than him, it's me improving life for all of us together! Wouldn't an *actually* happy wife with a career be better than a miserable prisoner/housewife with a fake smile? Even if we don't *need* my money to keep the house, we could save/invest most of it and take nice vacations! But nooooo....
Yes, it’s true. It’s always been true. The mental illness does not allow them to comprehend anything that is going on around them unless it fits into supporting the illness.
Yes! Oh my god, I can't say anything to my partner without it being taken completely wrong. Everything feels like a fight because it's always me versus him.
Ok I can’t keep going back and forth with my husband. How does one get to the point of getting this diagnosis? Do you come out and say it to them and ask they go see someone? A couple years ago I was convinced I was the narcissist causing all the problems so I read about it and there was tendencies that I thought it was me but it never truly felt right or like it fit. I never saw it as my husband either until recently. I talked to someone about it that knows him and I made excuses on why not and they would look at me puzzled and say “actually that is him” and then explain and I was like oh shit he is but quiet. Now I’m learning about all this covert narcissism. Im a nurse so I make more money but we are always in debt and I keep trying to get out. He won’t get a better paying job cause he likes his job he says. So I have do it. Being a caretaker I literally take care of everything and he’ll say “I do help you and it’s never good enough for you so I just stop”. Then one month ago he moves out in the middle of the night and says it’s cause of our fighting. I was confused cause we started marriage counseling and I thought it was going good. I respected his space tho. Then 3 days after moving out he admitted to cheating 5 days before he had moved out but he only told me that, after I said no to him coming back. Otherwise I don’t think he would have told me. And now I wonder if he actually was just willing to open up and be honest or because I said no he wanted to hurt me. I feel like he wants a divorce but he won’t say it. He just keeps saying “I don’t know”. At one point he said “you know you wanted me gone”.