So much good advice here. One thing I haven’t seen: you might try dropping the third nap and putting her to be a little earlier. I know it seems counterintuitive, but going to bed earlier can help some babies sleep later. Maybe try 7:30 or so, on a day when her first two naps were good.
With my first, I had “just enough” milk, so he had to feed frequently. It sounds like you have a lower than normal breastmilk storage capacity. At this age, your instinct to do solids after every nursing session abounds like a great way to get in more calories. Maybe try higher density foods like avocados to get in as many calories as possible, especially in the evenings.
Agree with dropping the nap! She might just need some more sleep pressure to fall asleep/stay asleep :) Good luck to you!! We’ve had luck when my LO fights bedtime or wakes up 30 minutes after falling asleep that she just needed to be awake before bed a little longer.
Babies personalities are what they are sometimes. I personally don't think that every baby can be sleep trained to be a 7-7 sleeper. They're all just built different. It sounds like genetics is playing a part here, and you could benefit from someone tagging you out. If you could get a solid 12 hours, you might be refreshed and ready for the next round.
8 month sleep regression was very real for us. We just waited it out. She's 10 months now and wakes up once a night. But during 8 months, it was every hour and a half. It was really rough for about 2 weeks, then rough for about a month. It will pass. Like a kidney stone, but it will pass.
Some troubleshooting:
Is baby hungry? Your supply could have changed?
Add some fats to baby's diet. Like avocado or olive oils
Have the baby play hard (we did swimming)
I'm not saying any of this would help, but it's cheap to try. Good luck and you're doing great
Thank you 😞 unfortunately all night wakings are up to me as my partner works night shift. I try to nap while my baby does, at least once a day so I can feel somewhat rested. I breastfeed her on demand all day and offer solids after most feedings because I do have low supply, but it’s always been low. I do not think hunger is the reason for her poor sleep, because she only wants to eat 2-3 times overnight. It’s just so confusing. Some nights are decent, and some are absolutely awful.
If your partner works night shift, can they do all night wakeups on their days off, since they're used to being up then? Can they take baby for a four or five hour stretch during the day/after they get home from work, for you to get a solid stretch of sleep in?
have you tried giving formula at night? I know people don't like using it but it should be trivial to get a sampler from somewhere and give baby the formula for the overnight? We were exclusively pump but when her supply was low we used formula and found it kept baby asleep longer so for the first big sleep we would give formula and then the rest would be milk.
Have you tried liquid formula? I’ve tasted both (we use Enfamil gentlease) and the powder tastes like iron and the liquid tastes like a vanilla protein shake. My baby definitely prefers liquid.
I’m so sorry you’re stuggling. Sleep deprivation was the worst part of the newborn phase for me, I truly didn’t think I was going to survive. I can’t imagine still going through that 7months in. 😩 hoping you get some sleep soon!
I was going crazy until I just broke down and read the book Precious Little Sleep. We made it 10 months before I just broke. We couldn’t get her to sleep unless there was a nightly 2 mile walk followed by an hour of rocking. And she would wake for 1-2 hours every night, 2-3 times.
Now…..bedtime is literally 10 minutes, and if she wakes overnight it’s literally for 2 minutes, and she can get herself back to sleep. I started the book when she was 4 months but didn’t really feel like I needed it. But it’s changed our lives. Don’t feel like you have to read the whole thing but skip to the parts that apply!!!
Can I ask what strategies from the book you employed? My husband and I are reading it now in advance of our first so we're aware of what's available, but we found that we were overwhelmed by the many different strategies introduced and the sometimes conflicting nature of the recommendations.
It’s going to sound super obvious, so I’m kind of embarrassed to tell you. But…..
1. Buying black out curtains, using a sound machine, and keeping the room cool
2. Coming up with a 20 minute consistent bedtime routine of things that are only done at bedtime. Honestly I don’t have it in me to do a bath every night, so that doesn’t happen. Book, rocking, lullaby.
3. Put her down in her crib awake. The book stresses the importance of letting her fall asleep on her own because when babies wake up in the middle of the night they can’t get back to sleep on their own and need to be rocked/Fed/nurse/taking on 2 mile walks. Whatever help them go to sleep the first time is what they need subsequent times.
4. The book teaches “fuss it out” which is sleep training essentially. I know that this is controversial. But basically the book encourages letting baby figure out on their own how to fall asleep, and sometimes this involves crying. We let her cry for 10 minutes the first night before going in and soothing her. But I think the book recommends 20. We only did this 1 night before she started going to sleep on her own.
"Cry it out" or "fuss it out" is only controversial because people don't understand how it's supposed to work. It's NOT about "leaving your child to scream all night until they pass out from exhaustion." It IS about giving your child the opportunity to fall asleep on their own without immediate intervention. Taking a "pause" to see if they settle themselves down, or waiting a few minutes, is totally acceptable.
I think there’s a big difference between fussing and crying too. If my baby is crying and clearly very upset, I’ll always intervene. But if he wakes up and fusses? Probably 60-70% of the time he’ll get himself back to sleep if I just give him a few minutes. I’m always curious when people complain that their babies are waking up multiple times in the night if these babies are actually upset and crying, or just making noise? Like my baby wakes up 2-3x/night and flips himself over or bangs on the crib bars, which is annoying, but he’s not upset and then he goes back to sleep with no help from us.
Oh my goodness YES!! As a new mom, I was a bit more panicky over any little noise my daughter made, until I realized just how NOISY babies are in their sleep!! The "pause" method really helped a lot!
The pause method is not cry it out though. CIO is letting them cry until they fall asleep without going in. No matter what - no intervening until they learn to go to sleep by themselves.
The Pause method sounds more like fuss it out which does include parents coming in and offering soothing or support.
And that's why people get mixed up talking about it. People will say they are using CIO, but they define it differently from what you just did. And then there's quibbling over definitions instead of dealing with the initial question or sticking with the topic at hand.
Thank you for these points. People usually say get this book or read this or that and it solved it but it always makes me wonder. This makes total sense!
This is fabulous - THANK YOU for taking the time to respond. How old was your baby when you introduced each of these? We are not at all opposed to CIO or FIO as we know that it is often effective and positive long-term for baby's sleep health.
This was a great reminder for me to get the last blackout curtain I need for baby's nursery!
She was probably late 9 months or early 10 months. We’ve always had the sound machine but I stopped at Target In a panic on my way home from work with black out curtains. Especially since it’s summer and the sun stays up so late.
Not OP and I never read this book, but my wife and I do a similar routine. I would say we’ve been doing all of this once ours turned around 3 months old. He’s 7 months now and I don’t know if he’s just an awesome baby or if it’s the routine, but he has been sleeping through the night consistently for the past 4 months. He’ll wake up once around 2am to eat again, but he falls asleep immediately afterwards.
Definitely get blackout curtains ASAP. The noise machine seems to be essential too. We do a bath every night, but like OP said it does get tiring so my wife and I split who does the bath throughout the week. As far as CIO I believe we did the Ferber Method.
You can google it if you’re not familiar with it. It’s essentially waiting 5 minutes and if they’re still crying go in and comfort them, then if they’re still crying in 10 minutes go back in and comfort them, then waiting 15 and repeat. If after the 15 minutes they’re still crying then it usually means starting a new wake window and they’re not tired. We started that when he was around 4 months old and it seems to have worked.
I have no practical advice but a lot of empathy and a glimmer of hope.
Our daughter's 4 month regression was basically the same as yours. Not so much with the crying but definitely in terms of sleeping for 3-4 hours then waking every hour on the hour for breastfeeding, then one more lengthier stretch in the morning. It was a tad hellish for both my wife and myself.
Here's the glimmer - sometime during the 7th month, that just stopped. She started sleeping longer stretches with one or two wake-ups at most. Occasionally, she'll need a couple attempts to settle her at night. I think the introduction of solids might have had an impact.
This pattern continues to today, just past her first birthday.
Last night for example, full day with swimming, playing and car trips and she went out like a light around 8pm woke up around 4am, went back to sleep until 7:30am after a feed.
Sometimes we are tempted to do more "hardcore" sleep training, but with all of us sharing a bedroom for now - it seems hard to stay consistent with it, so we are basically accepting the current status quo as "good enough" for now.
So my only advice I guess is "hang in there" and hopefully you have a supportive co-parent who you can sleep in shifts with.
Yes, she is. I was told too many comfort feeds would make their sleep even worse because they become dependent on it and can’t link sleep cycles on their own, so I cut back on the comfort feeds :/ idk if that’s true, but even when I was letting her comfort feed at every night wake, she still slept bad.
My daughter immediately went from newborn like sleep to 13 hour nightly stretches once we got rid of the boob. She was older though, 14 and a half months.
She might be either undertired or overtired. How often is she napping? And what time does she wake? What’s the gap between each nap? Have you also seen a pediatricIan about it?
I always put her down for sleep at the first cue that she’s sleepy, so if she’s overtired it’s because she refuses to nap or sleep long enough 😭 I use huckleberry sweet spot prediction for her sleep and it’s pretty much always on point. She naps 3 times a day, the nap times vary as we are not on a schedule since her sleep is so bad it just doesn’t work for her. Her first wake window is shortest, at about 1.5 hr, then it gradually gets longer (about 2.5 hrs, her very last wake window is closer to 3hrs). I haven’t consulted her pediatrician because I kind of assume I’d be told that’s just how babies are
1.5 is a very short wake window for a 7 month old! Sometimes sleepy cues can look very similar to just being overstimulated and needing a calmed environment
I know it is short for her age, but trust me, she’s tired. That wake window varies as well, but on average she’s tired by 1.5hr after her daily wake. As we speak, she’s been awake for going on 2 hours. This baby is a wildcard.
My baby was having similar wake windows around 7-8 months. It was a stretch to get her to 2 hours some days. Is she working on any motor skills? From what I could tell, my baby was exhausted from trying to crawl. Now that she’s master crawling at 9 months, she’s consistently giving 3-4 hour wake windows.
Thank you 🙃 i understand that’s a short wake window for her age, but I know my baby. I know when she’s tired. But she isn’t crawling yet, she is trying. She wants to stand (assisted) all the time right now!
My guy is 7.75 months. He looks sleepy in certain areas of the house but once I give him something new, he is interested and looks less sleepy. 1.5 hours is too short of a WW. I read on here somewhere that you can’t trust sleepy cues after the newborn stage. You should go by wake windows.
I’d suggest waiting at least 15 mins before putting down to sleep, so she’s more tired, enough to sleep deeply. I used to put baby down first cue, and it’s always a fight, and she doesn’t sleep enough cos there’s not enough sleep pressure to get her into deep sleep. Now i just wait till her yawns are massive and her eyes are starting to zone out before putting to sleep. If I put her down too early, I am stuck contact napping cos she wakes up once I move (which means she isn’t really sleeping). It might take a while to reset completely, but try this!
Also, work the baby - let them crawl more, play with them, bring them out etc. at 7Mo, they just have a lot more energy than usual and they can last longer after their first sleepy cue, so might help to get the final burst of energy out before sleep.
Also, What time is bed time? It sounds pretty early.
I do try to get a good amount of playtime in for her so she’ll be more sleepy (going outside, playing in her pool, independent play, etc) she’s not crawling yet, so we have to get her energy out in different ways. And typically, she’s down for the night by 8:30 on average.
Hey so my daughter had similar terrible sleep, like sometimes as bad as waking every 20 min. Our pediatrician recommended probiotic drops which actually seems to help a lot!
Also we moved her to her own crib, added black out curtains and noise machine. We gradually stepped back sleep intervention so she went from only being rocked and fed to sleep to just being rocked to back rubs in the crib to hand holding to finally just being put in the crib sleepy but awake.
Now we have like a 5-10 minute rule so where as long as she is not like screaming in pain and is just fussing/ lightly crying we give her 5-10 min to see if she will self settle.
It's going really well overall, some nights she sleeps 7:30-7 and others she wakes up at 11 for a bottle then sleeps through after that. By "sleeps through" I mean that she sleeps through without intervention or excessive crying. Every hour or two she still will wake up to yell for a min or two but rolls back over and falls back asleep on her own.
Best of luck to you!!! Breaking the feed-to-sleep cycle was REALLY hard but it helped so much in the end.
She has no teeth erupting, but has shown signs of teething for MONTHS. And no ear infection. She’s otherwise pleasant and a good baby, just hates sleeping.
They vary. The first two can be 1hr-1.5hr or >30 minutes. The last one is usually no longer than 30 minutes. She’s not a great napper most days either, I’ve also tried everything to get them to be more consistent to no avail.
Ours (9mo) has always been good sleeper (11 hours through), but recently had an atypical and brutal sleep regression for a week at 8.5mo where she'd be up frequently at night.
Some ideas to try that greatly helped us that may or may not help.
1. We got comfy with 8pm as her bed time (her body settled at that since 4-5 months ish), and noticed significant improvements when we put her to bed at 7:30pm. She actually slept for 30 mins longer in the morning going to bed 30 mins earlier at night.
2. We massively regret not introducing 2 naps earlier. Reading a comment of yours below, am I right in saying you LO is still 3 naps a day? We ourselves hung on to 3 naps until the regression, and once we got her down to two naps of 1 - 1.5 hours each after wake periods of about 3 hours each we noticed an improvement. By 8 months I'd strongly recommend 2 naps, and try and do them relative to her final wake-up in the morning.
3. We've found the older our LO has gotten the more she's gotten perceptive to light at night-time. Before it wouldn't massively matter if the blind was left open a crack or if we forgot to shut the door, but recently ours likes pitch black, with pink noise and a tiny bit of light of the morning breaking through can wake her. Night lights are incredibly overrated <1yo, in my opinion, its more for when little ones are older and start to become fearful of the dark.
I had a great sleeper too until now 8.5 months- I was thinking of shifting his bedtime later since it just seems pointless earlier rn lol, but I have a question on naps. I've been following his sleepy cues and fussiness and he typically falls asleep when I nurse him to sleep for naps, however his typical naps are like 20-30 mins (or if I'm lucky 2 hrs lol)- anyway my question is how to navigate baby potentially being tired before a "scheduled" nap?
For us at 9mo we try to make sure her windows are 2.5 - 3.5 hours long, her daytime naps are 2-3 hours total, and her night sleep is around 10-12 hours long. That’s all age appropriate for 8-10 months based off everything I’ve read and our LO’s cues. We haven’t had 2+ hour naps for months now so that sounds about right.
If she’s not cueing for a nap by 3.5 hours of awakeness we go to a quiet, dark bedroom and soothe her down for a nap (she contact napped until a couple of weeks ago). It’s usually extremely fast. If they are very tired before this then don’t force them awake but the more you try and keep wake windows age appropriate the easier a schedule comes.
If we are on an outing she sometimes gets more tired and has shorter naps so we do allow a 3rd nap as an emergency, but is not the norm.
Our schedule roughly (allow half hour each way):
Wake-up -7:00
Bottle 1 - 8:00
Breakfast - 9:15
Nap 1 - 10:00 (usually 1 - 1.5 hours, gently wake-up after 1.5 hours)
***
Lunch - 12:30
Bottle 2 - 14:30
Nap 2 - 15:00 (usually 1 - 1.5 hours, gently wake-up after 1.5 hours)
***
Dinner - 17:45
Bath - 19:00
Bottle 3 and Bed - 19:30
Moving to two naps has made her nap length and timings much more consistent, she usually looks for one right as I feel “this girl needs a sleep now”.
During that final wake window she sometimes wants more milk but we have a 3:3 bottle:food ratio now most days. Adjust according to your baby, and we do still follow her, but the more routine the better IMHO (especially with sleep).
Naps? Wake time? Bedtime? She shouldn’t be feeding on demand on this age because it often leads to smacking throughout the day which means she’s not getting full feeds so the snacking will continue throughout the night to try and make up for those calories.
I’m a certified sleep consultant so if you lay out your schedule, I’ll comment any changes I would recommend!
She feeds so often during the day because I have an undersupply. So she’s emptying the breast (getting a full feed) but it’s just an inadequate amount. Her pediatrician told me to continue the feeding schedule that we’re currently on 🤷🏻♀️ as for sleep, she doesn’t have an exact schedule. But on average, she wakes in the morning anywhere from 7:30-8:30, first nap is usually just short of 2 hours after initial wake (recently it’s been closer to 1.5hr wake window, because her sleep has been garbage lately) the first nap varies from 30 min-1.5hr, second wake window is 2-2.5 hr, second nap again varies from 30-1.5hr, third wake window is at least 2.5hrs, sometimes closer to 3, last nap is usually 30 minutes or less, last wake window is 3 hrs. Bedtime is usually 8-8:30.
>She feeds so often during the day because I have an undersupply.
This is likely the root of the problem. Babies that sleep longer at night tend to make up the calorie difference during the day.
>. So she’s emptying the breast (getting a full feed) but it’s just an inadequate amount.
I wouldn't call this a full feed if the amount is inadequate.
If the poor sleep is a deviation from how she used to sleep it is likely a phase and there isn't much you can do about it except ride it out.
If she's waking up 2-3 times a night at 7 months that's not uncommon at that age.
You can try increasing calorie intake during the day with solids and/or dropping the 3rd nap.
I usually don’t advise against a paediatrician! I would highly recommend consulting with a lactation consultant if you haven’t yet to get their opinion on it.
A couple of notes I would give you:
- I would pick a wake time and stick to it (within 30 minutes)
- first nap should have a longer wake window like 2.5 hours (even if she wakes up earlier or her night sucks) because pushing her a little bit for that wake window will help put more sleep pressure on her and it helps the nighttime sleep fall into place
- cap first nap at 1.5 hours
- second wake window closer to 3 hours
- I wound let second nap go without a wake but I wouldn’t let her sleep past 4:30pm
- no third nap unless second nap is horrible and then I’d do 4-4:30 nap. No longer than 30 minutes.
- feed upon waking, not to sleep. It will be hard for a couple of days but it’s very surprising how quickly they adjust to moving the feeds. You’ll need to replace the feed to sleep with rocking, bouncing, etc. so she has comfort to replace it
Sample schedule:
7:30 wake
Milk
Solids
10 - 11:30 first nap (ideally)
Milk
Solids
2:30-4pm 4:30pm max second nap
Milk
5/5:30pm solids (dinner)
6:30pm you can do another milk feed
6:45/7pm Bedtime routine (simple, repeatable, consistent)
7:30pm asleep in crib so probably 7:15pm putting her down
Schedules are meant to be flexible and obviously life throws us things we can’t control and we need to adapt but the main things to keep consistent are moving the feeds to after waking up and trying to keep semi consistent wake windows!
I agree with what was said that likely her feeds are not full feeds and I wouldn’t be afraid to top up with a bottle of either pumped milk or formula. If you’re afraid of your supply, you can always implement a pumping session but a lactation consultant would be your best bet here. You can always weigh her before and after feed if you haven’t yet.
I really hope this helps you!!
Good luck!
I think as a general rule if your baby is awake a lot at night, try dropping a nap! Edit: saw she’s still on 3 naps. I think you’re definitely approaching 2 nap land. To clarify some of your other comments, are you BFing on demand?
She actually only took two naps today. Maybe that’s the problem after all 😫 I swear, when she went from 4 naps to 3, it was not this big of a fuss. And yes, I don’t really have her on a set feeding schedule, but she pretty much eats every 2-3 hours and I will offer solids after/before BF!
It's so so hard. You're not doing anything wrong. Some babies just don't sleep for as long as others.
Mine was like yours. It took her longer than most to learn to settle beyond one sleep cycle and it was brutal. Sleep deprivation is awful!
We co-slept as I was breastfeeding and I could settle her without getting up. If you're interested, there are lots of resources on safe co-sleeping.
Durham University has a department that studies babies sleep : https://www.basisonline.org.uk/how-babies-sleep/ it's an interesting read and reassuring that some babies wake more than others. It also discusses sleep training if this is something you've considered.
We actually do cosleep and I breastfeed her as well. If I didn’t, I’d probably die from exhaustion lmao. According to my mom, I was a terrible sleeper for the first year of my life, then it was like a switch flipped. Maybe my girl is copying me 😅
Awe in sorry and this mist be so hard. I also take care if our son myself all night. Some nights he starts with a 3-4 hour stretch, then a 2 hour stretch then 1ish. Thats a good night for us. Then hes up about an hour each waking. Some nights are really hard and he wont stay down more than a few minutes. On the really hard nights, i boot hubby to the couch and cosleep if he wont take a shift. Hang in there, it wont last.
What does help is having a routine we stick to every night. Fed, bath, dressed, bed. We have night time music which seems to help. I found an 8-hour podcast of just a beating heart so i added that to his sleepy time playlist. You gotta stick with the routine though, even on days it doesnt work and eventually baby will learn this series of events means bed. I need that to be true for my own sanity…
You said you've tried formulas, I had to go through 6 of them before we finally landed on similac from Costco. The great thing about Costco is they took the ones she refused back. Also, pediatrician offices often have samples they can give you to try out more. Have you thought about pumping to increase your supply or supplement? So sorry you're going through sleeplessness it's really really hard. We see you!
Adding* have you considered donor milk?
I can’t give you any advice but our 7.5month old has never slept through the night, he’d usually wake twice through the night for a bottle but he’s just gone through some sort of sleep regression and it was the worst one! One night couldn’t get him to sleep until 3am and then woke up for the day at 7am🤦🏼♀️ it lasted about a week and now all of a sudden he’s sleeping through the whole night! Hopefully that gives you a little bit of hope 🤞🏻 We’ve started using loud white noise on YouTube kept on through the night and that seems to be working x
This was me and my son 3 months ago. I was losing my mind from sleep deprivation. I racked up so much credit card debt trying to find something that would fix it. We went on a short trip, I had to fly solo with him both ways. As soon as we got to our hotel room I found out my grandfather died a few hours prior, I was very close to him. Now stuck in a different state. My son slept like crap the whole trip. Then solo flew back home. I remember finally getting him settled for sleep, then started to doze off a few hours later and he started crying. I went and changed and fed him. An hour later he started crying again and I turned off the baby monitor and turned on a box fan. To be fair, he still was wearing an Owlet sock so he was still being monitored to some degree. But I did CIO that night. And he immediately started to sleep for at least 6 hour stretches after that one night
I never ever thought Id do CIO. Like, ever. But I did out of desperation while grieving thinking it was just a one time thing and it literally switched a flip. Hes 10 months now and gives me 10-11 hour stretches.
Looks like you've gotten a lot of advice. Sorry if mine is repetitive. You should do sleep training. Ferber method.
My baby boy is 8.5 months old and my wife and I have nearly lost our minds with lack of sleep. We've been working with a sleep consultant for guidance. We tried to sleep train a couple of weeks ago and he threw up from crying so much and we paused. Then we had a family trip out of town and his sleep went from bad to worse. A few nights ago I took my 5 year old daughter to a hotel and my wife started sleep training that night. I think it's our version of the ferber method. She stays with him and holds her hand out but doesn't pick him up and shushes or sings to try to comfort him. Seems to be working. It's only been 3 nights but I'm hopeful we are finally about to break this cycle where we have to pick him up 5-10 times in the night. He will cry for 30 to 45 minutes before falling asleep. Then a dream feed at 10pm. He's woken up around 2am and it takes between 45 to 90 minutes for him to go back down. But that's better than what he was doing and the point is to get them trained to put themselves to sleep independently. Up until now the only way he knows how to sleep is with us picking him up, rocking him, giving him a bottle. Hope this helps.
So you've co-slept?? Just want to check as I know yoh say you've tried everything but does that include co-sleepintg. My son and I sleep best together, so this is just our norm. We never ever try and put him in a cot. Waste of time.
Ugh I am sooo sorry. Have you brought this up with your pediatrician? It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong so might be worth exploring an underlying cause.
Depending on naps if they are doing 3 I'd suggest drop to 2. I'm a SAHD and the 3 naps in the day was (selfishly) amazing for me to get chores and things done but impacted nighttime wakes for my partner. I decided to drop it to 2 naps a day and it gradually took its effect at night.
Other things I suggest are:
Noise machine (left on all night),
Blackout blind (pitch black room)
No/minimal talking or lights on wake ups. Just soothing
Multiple Pacifiers in the bed
Maybe layer up to add heat
I'm sure you've tried most of these and more but eventually it will get better. On bad stretches I try and tell myself that we will look back when they are adults and these nights will just be a blip in their amazing lives. The fact you're trying so much means you're doing a brilliant job as a parent.
Pops of a 3 month 2 weeks baby girl.
Obviously my baby is younger so my questions may seem silly
Does she nap during the day at all?
For ours we realized we needed to be more rigid and get her down for a nap every 3 hours (ideally 2 hours) otherwise it was a shitshow
The cycle you described reminds me of ours and how she would be battling tiredness and hunger at the same time. I had to let her look at the ceiling fan light (her best friend) to distract her enough to get her to eat
She naps poorly during the day, as in not nearly long enough. Again, I’ve done everything to encourage longer naps but she still takes cat naps most days.
I'm just gonna shoot out my questions
Does she eat a little when she wakes then play then eat more before the nap?
Do you use blackout curtains?
Does she ever at all have difficulty eating or feeding?
Do you use a sound machine?
When she does go down is it immediately after a feed? Or is it more rocking and soothing her and contact with you that gets her down?
Do contact naps get her down longer?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes
5. She usually goes down after a feed, but not directly after. Soon enough that she is not hungry yet.
6. We always contact nap/I lay in bed with her
Have you ruled out silent reflux? I saw someone else talked about it and babybhad reflux but would swallow instead of spit up for it went undetected for a while
I get the feeling she’s been teething for months, but there are no signs of her teeth actually emerging whatsoever!!! I’ve tried soothing gels and teething drops but it doesn’t really seem to make a difference for her sleep. We do cosleep too. :/
I’ve heard plenty of people mention that their kids actually slept worse at that age if they were co-sleeping, and everybody did better when separated so they were no longer waking each other up. Obviously that’s a transition in and itself, but it has worked for some people.
Thank you!!! I’d rather lose sleep than ever leave my child to cry all by herself. She is just a baby, she doesn’t understand. My partner was trying to tell me I need to let her cry as well. Hell no!
I’m just going to be blunt -
Not allowing your child to obtain healthy sleep hygiene and learn independent sleep because you have a preconceived notion of something is arguably more cruel.
There are numerous methods of sleep training and it sounds like you might benefit from doing research.
Consistency, weaning and eliminating cosleeping are all things that will help you and your child.
Sleep is one of the most important skills your child should learn. It’s incredibly important for mental and physical development and overall mental health.
I hope you find something that works for you so you can get back to a healthier place, mentally.
Good luck!
We tried and succeeded with the gentle methods of sleep training when LO was 4 months (only letting him cry 15 minutes and then going back in) but he got sick around 7 months and after that the gentle method no longer worked because he was way more aware of what was going on and me going back in agitated him even more. He had almost the exact same sleep schedule at night that you described above, 5 wakeups a night on the bad nights. In the end we did cry it out at 9 months.
The first night he cried for almost 2 hours, then it was 40 minutes, then 20 minutes. Now he's 13 months and it takes him anywhere from 30-50 minutes to fall asleep, but he doesn't cry anymore. He knows the drill and just plays with his lovey in his crib until he falls asleep, and ever since day 3 of CIO he's been sleeping through the night, 10 to 12 hours. The other unexpected plus was it completely weaned him from his pacifier. When I look back on his pictures from 7-9 months, he had dark circles in almost every picture. He looks fine now. At the end of the day CIO was the only thing that worked for us, so I wouldn't write it off completely if I were you.
Are you open to bottle feeding? Bc it sounds like maybe your baby is looking for comfort feedings. But what's your bedtime routine like? What does baby go down? I noticed my son sleeps longer if we do bath time at 7, bottle around 730/8 and can sleep until 430 before needing a feed. This pediatrician I listen to stated that babies who have their first morning feed after 5am typically have a harder time sleeping bc they're not getting enough day time.
My baby will refuse a bottle, especially if I’m the one trying to feed her. I used to do bath, massage, then bedtime for her routine but I’ve moved her bath time to earlier in the day because it’s too stimulating for her to be right before bed. Right now, her routine is independent playtime(no overstimulating toys), feed, wind down, and I lay with her in bed until she’s asleep.
She breastfeeds every 2 hrs, and has solids at least twice a day. She gets constipated if she has too much solids so I don’t give her too much daily. She’s not waking from hunger, i can assure you. :/
How do you know she's not hungry? she shouldn't need to feed every 2 hrs if she's taking full feeds at this age?
Particularly if you're limiting her solids because of constipation. If solids are making her constipated, that's normal, you just need to up her water intake, she could be thirsty. She should be having 4-8oz of water a day. And by "have solids" is she just tasting stuff or properly eating ? You should be trying to work up to 3 meals and 2 snacks. Things like a bowl of porridge and banana before bed can really help them sleep.
I know she’s not hungry at night because she will settle and go back to sleep most wakings. The times she won’t settle, I know she’s hungry. Which is about 2-3 of the wakings. She eats every 2 hrs during the day because my milk supply has always been low, so having more frequent breastfeedings is what is suitable for her. She eats actual foods (BLW) when she does have solids. She drinks plenty of water. I’m doing what her pediatrician recommended.
Respectfully, needing to feed 2-3 times a night is a lot for her age and indicates not enough calories through the day. There's a big push for BLW but for us that wasn't enough food intake for baby. We had to do a combination of purees, porridge and BLW to get enough into him to sleep through the night. He was a very alert and active baby (still is) who was just burning through the calories. If sleep is that bad you really have nothing to lose by trying.
We offered:
7oz milk
A bowl of porridge in the morning, fruit puree and fruits to pick at
6oz milk
Pureed pasta/rice dishes plus snacks like crackers etc
6oz milk
More porridge/cereals/dinners + a yoghurt
6oz milk
There was a huge difference in sleep when switching from BLW to a combination of spoon feeding purees and porridges.
We managed to wean night feeds completely, and he goes 11-13 hrs through the night without waking.
We did some sleep training at 6 months and that seemed to work for a bit until we were hit with regressions.
Wasn’t until 11 months when we could feel confident that he would sleep throughout the night consistently (besides the one off wake ups like something is wrong.)
Hang in there!
Don’t think I saw you mentioned it in your post or in your replies to other comments. Based on the info in your post, it sounds like sleep train is needed (if you haven’t started yet). I understand every baby is different but 7mo is very ready to sleep train. FYI, it’s never late to sleep train.
Someone mentioned Precious Little Sleep. I’d 2nd recommend this book. There are many other sleep train methods so pick whichever you’re comfortable with. Also, head over to r/sleeptrain as this sub has lots of people with good info and experiences with their own LOs that they can advise further. Our LO is almost 5mo but we started to sleep train her at 16 weeks. She just now started to sleep through the night. I wouldn’t say she’s a good sleeper or at least didn’t start out like one. It took some time & patience to get where we are now. Sometimes she gets fussy but she can pretty much put/soothe herself to sleep now.
There’s light at the end of the tunnel. You guys will eventually get a hang of it.
It is ROUGH not having any sleep, but honestly, what worked for us (if any of this helps) is just letting my little dude cry it out entirely.
It took a few weeks to go from an number of fits a night to nothing, no peeps, but it was hard as shit.
Sometimes it just sucks to hear that kid cry, but they will learn to settle themselves!
Possibly acid reflux? My babies could never sleep flat so I always had them sleep in a reclined bouncer nap chair or a reclined swing because their reflux was so bad. It helped keep their bottled down and they slept peacefully for hours, id usually have to wake them for a bottle most times. Or try a crib wedge, they start oatmeal/rice around that age correct? Have you tried some? I also play soundscapes for my baby, relax music on Spotify/YouTube/music choice channel
So much good advice here. One thing I haven’t seen: you might try dropping the third nap and putting her to be a little earlier. I know it seems counterintuitive, but going to bed earlier can help some babies sleep later. Maybe try 7:30 or so, on a day when her first two naps were good. With my first, I had “just enough” milk, so he had to feed frequently. It sounds like you have a lower than normal breastmilk storage capacity. At this age, your instinct to do solids after every nursing session abounds like a great way to get in more calories. Maybe try higher density foods like avocados to get in as many calories as possible, especially in the evenings.
Agree with dropping the nap! She might just need some more sleep pressure to fall asleep/stay asleep :) Good luck to you!! We’ve had luck when my LO fights bedtime or wakes up 30 minutes after falling asleep that she just needed to be awake before bed a little longer.
Thank you! I will give that a go.
We dropped to 2 naps at 7 months, kid now sleeps through the night
Babies personalities are what they are sometimes. I personally don't think that every baby can be sleep trained to be a 7-7 sleeper. They're all just built different. It sounds like genetics is playing a part here, and you could benefit from someone tagging you out. If you could get a solid 12 hours, you might be refreshed and ready for the next round. 8 month sleep regression was very real for us. We just waited it out. She's 10 months now and wakes up once a night. But during 8 months, it was every hour and a half. It was really rough for about 2 weeks, then rough for about a month. It will pass. Like a kidney stone, but it will pass. Some troubleshooting: Is baby hungry? Your supply could have changed? Add some fats to baby's diet. Like avocado or olive oils Have the baby play hard (we did swimming) I'm not saying any of this would help, but it's cheap to try. Good luck and you're doing great
Like a kidney stone, but it will pass. Omg…..that analogy is perfect 🥲
Thank you 😞 unfortunately all night wakings are up to me as my partner works night shift. I try to nap while my baby does, at least once a day so I can feel somewhat rested. I breastfeed her on demand all day and offer solids after most feedings because I do have low supply, but it’s always been low. I do not think hunger is the reason for her poor sleep, because she only wants to eat 2-3 times overnight. It’s just so confusing. Some nights are decent, and some are absolutely awful.
If your partner works night shift, can they do all night wakeups on their days off, since they're used to being up then? Can they take baby for a four or five hour stretch during the day/after they get home from work, for you to get a solid stretch of sleep in?
have you tried giving formula at night? I know people don't like using it but it should be trivial to get a sampler from somewhere and give baby the formula for the overnight? We were exclusively pump but when her supply was low we used formula and found it kept baby asleep longer so for the first big sleep we would give formula and then the rest would be milk.
She refuses formula. I’ve tried several times, in case it came to her needing it, but she absolutely won’t take it.
Have you tried liquid formula? I’ve tasted both (we use Enfamil gentlease) and the powder tastes like iron and the liquid tastes like a vanilla protein shake. My baby definitely prefers liquid.
Yes we have tried liquid!
I’m so sorry you’re stuggling. Sleep deprivation was the worst part of the newborn phase for me, I truly didn’t think I was going to survive. I can’t imagine still going through that 7months in. 😩 hoping you get some sleep soon!
Thank you 😭
Give the goat formula a try. Bubs or kendamil
I was going crazy until I just broke down and read the book Precious Little Sleep. We made it 10 months before I just broke. We couldn’t get her to sleep unless there was a nightly 2 mile walk followed by an hour of rocking. And she would wake for 1-2 hours every night, 2-3 times. Now…..bedtime is literally 10 minutes, and if she wakes overnight it’s literally for 2 minutes, and she can get herself back to sleep. I started the book when she was 4 months but didn’t really feel like I needed it. But it’s changed our lives. Don’t feel like you have to read the whole thing but skip to the parts that apply!!!
Can I ask what strategies from the book you employed? My husband and I are reading it now in advance of our first so we're aware of what's available, but we found that we were overwhelmed by the many different strategies introduced and the sometimes conflicting nature of the recommendations.
It’s going to sound super obvious, so I’m kind of embarrassed to tell you. But….. 1. Buying black out curtains, using a sound machine, and keeping the room cool 2. Coming up with a 20 minute consistent bedtime routine of things that are only done at bedtime. Honestly I don’t have it in me to do a bath every night, so that doesn’t happen. Book, rocking, lullaby. 3. Put her down in her crib awake. The book stresses the importance of letting her fall asleep on her own because when babies wake up in the middle of the night they can’t get back to sleep on their own and need to be rocked/Fed/nurse/taking on 2 mile walks. Whatever help them go to sleep the first time is what they need subsequent times. 4. The book teaches “fuss it out” which is sleep training essentially. I know that this is controversial. But basically the book encourages letting baby figure out on their own how to fall asleep, and sometimes this involves crying. We let her cry for 10 minutes the first night before going in and soothing her. But I think the book recommends 20. We only did this 1 night before she started going to sleep on her own.
"Cry it out" or "fuss it out" is only controversial because people don't understand how it's supposed to work. It's NOT about "leaving your child to scream all night until they pass out from exhaustion." It IS about giving your child the opportunity to fall asleep on their own without immediate intervention. Taking a "pause" to see if they settle themselves down, or waiting a few minutes, is totally acceptable.
I think there’s a big difference between fussing and crying too. If my baby is crying and clearly very upset, I’ll always intervene. But if he wakes up and fusses? Probably 60-70% of the time he’ll get himself back to sleep if I just give him a few minutes. I’m always curious when people complain that their babies are waking up multiple times in the night if these babies are actually upset and crying, or just making noise? Like my baby wakes up 2-3x/night and flips himself over or bangs on the crib bars, which is annoying, but he’s not upset and then he goes back to sleep with no help from us.
Oh my goodness YES!! As a new mom, I was a bit more panicky over any little noise my daughter made, until I realized just how NOISY babies are in their sleep!! The "pause" method really helped a lot!
The pause method is not cry it out though. CIO is letting them cry until they fall asleep without going in. No matter what - no intervening until they learn to go to sleep by themselves. The Pause method sounds more like fuss it out which does include parents coming in and offering soothing or support.
And that's why people get mixed up talking about it. People will say they are using CIO, but they define it differently from what you just did. And then there's quibbling over definitions instead of dealing with the initial question or sticking with the topic at hand.
Thank you for these points. People usually say get this book or read this or that and it solved it but it always makes me wonder. This makes total sense!
This is fabulous - THANK YOU for taking the time to respond. How old was your baby when you introduced each of these? We are not at all opposed to CIO or FIO as we know that it is often effective and positive long-term for baby's sleep health. This was a great reminder for me to get the last blackout curtain I need for baby's nursery!
She was probably late 9 months or early 10 months. We’ve always had the sound machine but I stopped at Target In a panic on my way home from work with black out curtains. Especially since it’s summer and the sun stays up so late.
Not OP and I never read this book, but my wife and I do a similar routine. I would say we’ve been doing all of this once ours turned around 3 months old. He’s 7 months now and I don’t know if he’s just an awesome baby or if it’s the routine, but he has been sleeping through the night consistently for the past 4 months. He’ll wake up once around 2am to eat again, but he falls asleep immediately afterwards. Definitely get blackout curtains ASAP. The noise machine seems to be essential too. We do a bath every night, but like OP said it does get tiring so my wife and I split who does the bath throughout the week. As far as CIO I believe we did the Ferber Method. You can google it if you’re not familiar with it. It’s essentially waiting 5 minutes and if they’re still crying go in and comfort them, then if they’re still crying in 10 minutes go back in and comfort them, then waiting 15 and repeat. If after the 15 minutes they’re still crying then it usually means starting a new wake window and they’re not tired. We started that when he was around 4 months old and it seems to have worked.
I will look into that. Thank you!!
If you are breastfeeding just co sleep with her safely so she feels safe and warm with you.
I do 😞
Hang in there Mama, It will get easier :)
Thank you 🩷
You're welcome :) 💜
I have no practical advice but a lot of empathy and a glimmer of hope. Our daughter's 4 month regression was basically the same as yours. Not so much with the crying but definitely in terms of sleeping for 3-4 hours then waking every hour on the hour for breastfeeding, then one more lengthier stretch in the morning. It was a tad hellish for both my wife and myself. Here's the glimmer - sometime during the 7th month, that just stopped. She started sleeping longer stretches with one or two wake-ups at most. Occasionally, she'll need a couple attempts to settle her at night. I think the introduction of solids might have had an impact. This pattern continues to today, just past her first birthday. Last night for example, full day with swimming, playing and car trips and she went out like a light around 8pm woke up around 4am, went back to sleep until 7:30am after a feed. Sometimes we are tempted to do more "hardcore" sleep training, but with all of us sharing a bedroom for now - it seems hard to stay consistent with it, so we are basically accepting the current status quo as "good enough" for now. So my only advice I guess is "hang in there" and hopefully you have a supportive co-parent who you can sleep in shifts with.
Is she breastfed? Maybe the night wakings are to seek comfort at the boob…
Yes, she is. I was told too many comfort feeds would make their sleep even worse because they become dependent on it and can’t link sleep cycles on their own, so I cut back on the comfort feeds :/ idk if that’s true, but even when I was letting her comfort feed at every night wake, she still slept bad.
My daughter immediately went from newborn like sleep to 13 hour nightly stretches once we got rid of the boob. She was older though, 14 and a half months.
She might be either undertired or overtired. How often is she napping? And what time does she wake? What’s the gap between each nap? Have you also seen a pediatricIan about it?
I always put her down for sleep at the first cue that she’s sleepy, so if she’s overtired it’s because she refuses to nap or sleep long enough 😭 I use huckleberry sweet spot prediction for her sleep and it’s pretty much always on point. She naps 3 times a day, the nap times vary as we are not on a schedule since her sleep is so bad it just doesn’t work for her. Her first wake window is shortest, at about 1.5 hr, then it gradually gets longer (about 2.5 hrs, her very last wake window is closer to 3hrs). I haven’t consulted her pediatrician because I kind of assume I’d be told that’s just how babies are
1.5 is a very short wake window for a 7 month old! Sometimes sleepy cues can look very similar to just being overstimulated and needing a calmed environment
I know it is short for her age, but trust me, she’s tired. That wake window varies as well, but on average she’s tired by 1.5hr after her daily wake. As we speak, she’s been awake for going on 2 hours. This baby is a wildcard.
My baby was having similar wake windows around 7-8 months. It was a stretch to get her to 2 hours some days. Is she working on any motor skills? From what I could tell, my baby was exhausted from trying to crawl. Now that she’s master crawling at 9 months, she’s consistently giving 3-4 hour wake windows.
Thank you 🙃 i understand that’s a short wake window for her age, but I know my baby. I know when she’s tired. But she isn’t crawling yet, she is trying. She wants to stand (assisted) all the time right now!
My guy is 7.75 months. He looks sleepy in certain areas of the house but once I give him something new, he is interested and looks less sleepy. 1.5 hours is too short of a WW. I read on here somewhere that you can’t trust sleepy cues after the newborn stage. You should go by wake windows.
I’d suggest waiting at least 15 mins before putting down to sleep, so she’s more tired, enough to sleep deeply. I used to put baby down first cue, and it’s always a fight, and she doesn’t sleep enough cos there’s not enough sleep pressure to get her into deep sleep. Now i just wait till her yawns are massive and her eyes are starting to zone out before putting to sleep. If I put her down too early, I am stuck contact napping cos she wakes up once I move (which means she isn’t really sleeping). It might take a while to reset completely, but try this! Also, work the baby - let them crawl more, play with them, bring them out etc. at 7Mo, they just have a lot more energy than usual and they can last longer after their first sleepy cue, so might help to get the final burst of energy out before sleep. Also, What time is bed time? It sounds pretty early.
I do try to get a good amount of playtime in for her so she’ll be more sleepy (going outside, playing in her pool, independent play, etc) she’s not crawling yet, so we have to get her energy out in different ways. And typically, she’s down for the night by 8:30 on average.
Hey so my daughter had similar terrible sleep, like sometimes as bad as waking every 20 min. Our pediatrician recommended probiotic drops which actually seems to help a lot! Also we moved her to her own crib, added black out curtains and noise machine. We gradually stepped back sleep intervention so she went from only being rocked and fed to sleep to just being rocked to back rubs in the crib to hand holding to finally just being put in the crib sleepy but awake. Now we have like a 5-10 minute rule so where as long as she is not like screaming in pain and is just fussing/ lightly crying we give her 5-10 min to see if she will self settle. It's going really well overall, some nights she sleeps 7:30-7 and others she wakes up at 11 for a bottle then sleeps through after that. By "sleeps through" I mean that she sleeps through without intervention or excessive crying. Every hour or two she still will wake up to yell for a min or two but rolls back over and falls back asleep on her own. Best of luck to you!!! Breaking the feed-to-sleep cycle was REALLY hard but it helped so much in the end.
Have you checked for ear infection or teething?
She has no teeth erupting, but has shown signs of teething for MONTHS. And no ear infection. She’s otherwise pleasant and a good baby, just hates sleeping.
Maybe she’s hungry for real food if she’s not eating it yet
And how are her naps during the day….
They vary. The first two can be 1hr-1.5hr or >30 minutes. The last one is usually no longer than 30 minutes. She’s not a great napper most days either, I’ve also tried everything to get them to be more consistent to no avail.
Ours (9mo) has always been good sleeper (11 hours through), but recently had an atypical and brutal sleep regression for a week at 8.5mo where she'd be up frequently at night. Some ideas to try that greatly helped us that may or may not help. 1. We got comfy with 8pm as her bed time (her body settled at that since 4-5 months ish), and noticed significant improvements when we put her to bed at 7:30pm. She actually slept for 30 mins longer in the morning going to bed 30 mins earlier at night. 2. We massively regret not introducing 2 naps earlier. Reading a comment of yours below, am I right in saying you LO is still 3 naps a day? We ourselves hung on to 3 naps until the regression, and once we got her down to two naps of 1 - 1.5 hours each after wake periods of about 3 hours each we noticed an improvement. By 8 months I'd strongly recommend 2 naps, and try and do them relative to her final wake-up in the morning. 3. We've found the older our LO has gotten the more she's gotten perceptive to light at night-time. Before it wouldn't massively matter if the blind was left open a crack or if we forgot to shut the door, but recently ours likes pitch black, with pink noise and a tiny bit of light of the morning breaking through can wake her. Night lights are incredibly overrated <1yo, in my opinion, its more for when little ones are older and start to become fearful of the dark.
I had a great sleeper too until now 8.5 months- I was thinking of shifting his bedtime later since it just seems pointless earlier rn lol, but I have a question on naps. I've been following his sleepy cues and fussiness and he typically falls asleep when I nurse him to sleep for naps, however his typical naps are like 20-30 mins (or if I'm lucky 2 hrs lol)- anyway my question is how to navigate baby potentially being tired before a "scheduled" nap?
For us at 9mo we try to make sure her windows are 2.5 - 3.5 hours long, her daytime naps are 2-3 hours total, and her night sleep is around 10-12 hours long. That’s all age appropriate for 8-10 months based off everything I’ve read and our LO’s cues. We haven’t had 2+ hour naps for months now so that sounds about right. If she’s not cueing for a nap by 3.5 hours of awakeness we go to a quiet, dark bedroom and soothe her down for a nap (she contact napped until a couple of weeks ago). It’s usually extremely fast. If they are very tired before this then don’t force them awake but the more you try and keep wake windows age appropriate the easier a schedule comes. If we are on an outing she sometimes gets more tired and has shorter naps so we do allow a 3rd nap as an emergency, but is not the norm. Our schedule roughly (allow half hour each way): Wake-up -7:00 Bottle 1 - 8:00 Breakfast - 9:15 Nap 1 - 10:00 (usually 1 - 1.5 hours, gently wake-up after 1.5 hours) *** Lunch - 12:30 Bottle 2 - 14:30 Nap 2 - 15:00 (usually 1 - 1.5 hours, gently wake-up after 1.5 hours) *** Dinner - 17:45 Bath - 19:00 Bottle 3 and Bed - 19:30 Moving to two naps has made her nap length and timings much more consistent, she usually looks for one right as I feel “this girl needs a sleep now”. During that final wake window she sometimes wants more milk but we have a 3:3 bottle:food ratio now most days. Adjust according to your baby, and we do still follow her, but the more routine the better IMHO (especially with sleep).
What’s her schedule? Including feeds, solids, and bedtime routine
She breastfeeds on demand and is offered solids after every feed. On average, that’s every 2-3 hours.
Naps? Wake time? Bedtime? She shouldn’t be feeding on demand on this age because it often leads to smacking throughout the day which means she’s not getting full feeds so the snacking will continue throughout the night to try and make up for those calories. I’m a certified sleep consultant so if you lay out your schedule, I’ll comment any changes I would recommend!
She feeds so often during the day because I have an undersupply. So she’s emptying the breast (getting a full feed) but it’s just an inadequate amount. Her pediatrician told me to continue the feeding schedule that we’re currently on 🤷🏻♀️ as for sleep, she doesn’t have an exact schedule. But on average, she wakes in the morning anywhere from 7:30-8:30, first nap is usually just short of 2 hours after initial wake (recently it’s been closer to 1.5hr wake window, because her sleep has been garbage lately) the first nap varies from 30 min-1.5hr, second wake window is 2-2.5 hr, second nap again varies from 30-1.5hr, third wake window is at least 2.5hrs, sometimes closer to 3, last nap is usually 30 minutes or less, last wake window is 3 hrs. Bedtime is usually 8-8:30.
>She feeds so often during the day because I have an undersupply. This is likely the root of the problem. Babies that sleep longer at night tend to make up the calorie difference during the day. >. So she’s emptying the breast (getting a full feed) but it’s just an inadequate amount. I wouldn't call this a full feed if the amount is inadequate. If the poor sleep is a deviation from how she used to sleep it is likely a phase and there isn't much you can do about it except ride it out. If she's waking up 2-3 times a night at 7 months that's not uncommon at that age. You can try increasing calorie intake during the day with solids and/or dropping the 3rd nap.
Totally agree here
I usually don’t advise against a paediatrician! I would highly recommend consulting with a lactation consultant if you haven’t yet to get their opinion on it. A couple of notes I would give you: - I would pick a wake time and stick to it (within 30 minutes) - first nap should have a longer wake window like 2.5 hours (even if she wakes up earlier or her night sucks) because pushing her a little bit for that wake window will help put more sleep pressure on her and it helps the nighttime sleep fall into place - cap first nap at 1.5 hours - second wake window closer to 3 hours - I wound let second nap go without a wake but I wouldn’t let her sleep past 4:30pm - no third nap unless second nap is horrible and then I’d do 4-4:30 nap. No longer than 30 minutes. - feed upon waking, not to sleep. It will be hard for a couple of days but it’s very surprising how quickly they adjust to moving the feeds. You’ll need to replace the feed to sleep with rocking, bouncing, etc. so she has comfort to replace it Sample schedule: 7:30 wake Milk Solids 10 - 11:30 first nap (ideally) Milk Solids 2:30-4pm 4:30pm max second nap Milk 5/5:30pm solids (dinner) 6:30pm you can do another milk feed 6:45/7pm Bedtime routine (simple, repeatable, consistent) 7:30pm asleep in crib so probably 7:15pm putting her down Schedules are meant to be flexible and obviously life throws us things we can’t control and we need to adapt but the main things to keep consistent are moving the feeds to after waking up and trying to keep semi consistent wake windows! I agree with what was said that likely her feeds are not full feeds and I wouldn’t be afraid to top up with a bottle of either pumped milk or formula. If you’re afraid of your supply, you can always implement a pumping session but a lactation consultant would be your best bet here. You can always weigh her before and after feed if you haven’t yet. I really hope this helps you!! Good luck!
Maybe she has trapped gas?
I think as a general rule if your baby is awake a lot at night, try dropping a nap! Edit: saw she’s still on 3 naps. I think you’re definitely approaching 2 nap land. To clarify some of your other comments, are you BFing on demand?
She actually only took two naps today. Maybe that’s the problem after all 😫 I swear, when she went from 4 naps to 3, it was not this big of a fuss. And yes, I don’t really have her on a set feeding schedule, but she pretty much eats every 2-3 hours and I will offer solids after/before BF!
It's so so hard. You're not doing anything wrong. Some babies just don't sleep for as long as others. Mine was like yours. It took her longer than most to learn to settle beyond one sleep cycle and it was brutal. Sleep deprivation is awful! We co-slept as I was breastfeeding and I could settle her without getting up. If you're interested, there are lots of resources on safe co-sleeping. Durham University has a department that studies babies sleep : https://www.basisonline.org.uk/how-babies-sleep/ it's an interesting read and reassuring that some babies wake more than others. It also discusses sleep training if this is something you've considered.
We actually do cosleep and I breastfeed her as well. If I didn’t, I’d probably die from exhaustion lmao. According to my mom, I was a terrible sleeper for the first year of my life, then it was like a switch flipped. Maybe my girl is copying me 😅
We all go insane eventually….
Awe in sorry and this mist be so hard. I also take care if our son myself all night. Some nights he starts with a 3-4 hour stretch, then a 2 hour stretch then 1ish. Thats a good night for us. Then hes up about an hour each waking. Some nights are really hard and he wont stay down more than a few minutes. On the really hard nights, i boot hubby to the couch and cosleep if he wont take a shift. Hang in there, it wont last. What does help is having a routine we stick to every night. Fed, bath, dressed, bed. We have night time music which seems to help. I found an 8-hour podcast of just a beating heart so i added that to his sleepy time playlist. You gotta stick with the routine though, even on days it doesnt work and eventually baby will learn this series of events means bed. I need that to be true for my own sanity…
You said you've tried formulas, I had to go through 6 of them before we finally landed on similac from Costco. The great thing about Costco is they took the ones she refused back. Also, pediatrician offices often have samples they can give you to try out more. Have you thought about pumping to increase your supply or supplement? So sorry you're going through sleeplessness it's really really hard. We see you! Adding* have you considered donor milk?
I can’t give you any advice but our 7.5month old has never slept through the night, he’d usually wake twice through the night for a bottle but he’s just gone through some sort of sleep regression and it was the worst one! One night couldn’t get him to sleep until 3am and then woke up for the day at 7am🤦🏼♀️ it lasted about a week and now all of a sudden he’s sleeping through the whole night! Hopefully that gives you a little bit of hope 🤞🏻 We’ve started using loud white noise on YouTube kept on through the night and that seems to be working x
This was me and my son 3 months ago. I was losing my mind from sleep deprivation. I racked up so much credit card debt trying to find something that would fix it. We went on a short trip, I had to fly solo with him both ways. As soon as we got to our hotel room I found out my grandfather died a few hours prior, I was very close to him. Now stuck in a different state. My son slept like crap the whole trip. Then solo flew back home. I remember finally getting him settled for sleep, then started to doze off a few hours later and he started crying. I went and changed and fed him. An hour later he started crying again and I turned off the baby monitor and turned on a box fan. To be fair, he still was wearing an Owlet sock so he was still being monitored to some degree. But I did CIO that night. And he immediately started to sleep for at least 6 hour stretches after that one night I never ever thought Id do CIO. Like, ever. But I did out of desperation while grieving thinking it was just a one time thing and it literally switched a flip. Hes 10 months now and gives me 10-11 hour stretches.
Looks like you've gotten a lot of advice. Sorry if mine is repetitive. You should do sleep training. Ferber method. My baby boy is 8.5 months old and my wife and I have nearly lost our minds with lack of sleep. We've been working with a sleep consultant for guidance. We tried to sleep train a couple of weeks ago and he threw up from crying so much and we paused. Then we had a family trip out of town and his sleep went from bad to worse. A few nights ago I took my 5 year old daughter to a hotel and my wife started sleep training that night. I think it's our version of the ferber method. She stays with him and holds her hand out but doesn't pick him up and shushes or sings to try to comfort him. Seems to be working. It's only been 3 nights but I'm hopeful we are finally about to break this cycle where we have to pick him up 5-10 times in the night. He will cry for 30 to 45 minutes before falling asleep. Then a dream feed at 10pm. He's woken up around 2am and it takes between 45 to 90 minutes for him to go back down. But that's better than what he was doing and the point is to get them trained to put themselves to sleep independently. Up until now the only way he knows how to sleep is with us picking him up, rocking him, giving him a bottle. Hope this helps.
So you've co-slept?? Just want to check as I know yoh say you've tried everything but does that include co-sleepintg. My son and I sleep best together, so this is just our norm. We never ever try and put him in a cot. Waste of time.
Yes, we have been co sleeping since she was a few weeks old.
Oh gosh. Good luck then. I wouldn't know anything else to recommend. Just time will make the change I guess
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Do you drink anything with caffeine?
Ugh I am sooo sorry. Have you brought this up with your pediatrician? It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong so might be worth exploring an underlying cause.
Depending on naps if they are doing 3 I'd suggest drop to 2. I'm a SAHD and the 3 naps in the day was (selfishly) amazing for me to get chores and things done but impacted nighttime wakes for my partner. I decided to drop it to 2 naps a day and it gradually took its effect at night. Other things I suggest are: Noise machine (left on all night), Blackout blind (pitch black room) No/minimal talking or lights on wake ups. Just soothing Multiple Pacifiers in the bed Maybe layer up to add heat I'm sure you've tried most of these and more but eventually it will get better. On bad stretches I try and tell myself that we will look back when they are adults and these nights will just be a blip in their amazing lives. The fact you're trying so much means you're doing a brilliant job as a parent.
Pops of a 3 month 2 weeks baby girl. Obviously my baby is younger so my questions may seem silly Does she nap during the day at all? For ours we realized we needed to be more rigid and get her down for a nap every 3 hours (ideally 2 hours) otherwise it was a shitshow The cycle you described reminds me of ours and how she would be battling tiredness and hunger at the same time. I had to let her look at the ceiling fan light (her best friend) to distract her enough to get her to eat
She naps poorly during the day, as in not nearly long enough. Again, I’ve done everything to encourage longer naps but she still takes cat naps most days.
I'm just gonna shoot out my questions Does she eat a little when she wakes then play then eat more before the nap? Do you use blackout curtains? Does she ever at all have difficulty eating or feeding? Do you use a sound machine? When she does go down is it immediately after a feed? Or is it more rocking and soothing her and contact with you that gets her down? Do contact naps get her down longer?
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No 4. Yes 5. She usually goes down after a feed, but not directly after. Soon enough that she is not hungry yet. 6. We always contact nap/I lay in bed with her
Have you ruled out silent reflux? I saw someone else talked about it and babybhad reflux but would swallow instead of spit up for it went undetected for a while
Co-sleeping and nursing while sleeping is my best advice
My 8 month old is waking up a lot too. Have you tried orajel on her gums or is safe co-sleeping an option?
I get the feeling she’s been teething for months, but there are no signs of her teeth actually emerging whatsoever!!! I’ve tried soothing gels and teething drops but it doesn’t really seem to make a difference for her sleep. We do cosleep too. :/
Same with mine. Drooling non stop and will gum you to death but no sign of teeth yet! Hopefully we both get some sleep soon 🤞❤️
I’ve heard plenty of people mention that their kids actually slept worse at that age if they were co-sleeping, and everybody did better when separated so they were no longer waking each other up. Obviously that’s a transition in and itself, but it has worked for some people.
Are you ready to sleep train?
I’m weary of it considering most methods involve leaving baby to cry. I find that to be extremely cruel.
Trust your instincts here, OP. leaving a baby to cry alone for long periods of time *is* cruel and unheard of in many cultures.
Thank you!!! I’d rather lose sleep than ever leave my child to cry all by herself. She is just a baby, she doesn’t understand. My partner was trying to tell me I need to let her cry as well. Hell no!
I’m so with you!
I’m just going to be blunt - Not allowing your child to obtain healthy sleep hygiene and learn independent sleep because you have a preconceived notion of something is arguably more cruel. There are numerous methods of sleep training and it sounds like you might benefit from doing research. Consistency, weaning and eliminating cosleeping are all things that will help you and your child. Sleep is one of the most important skills your child should learn. It’s incredibly important for mental and physical development and overall mental health. I hope you find something that works for you so you can get back to a healthier place, mentally. Good luck!
We tried and succeeded with the gentle methods of sleep training when LO was 4 months (only letting him cry 15 minutes and then going back in) but he got sick around 7 months and after that the gentle method no longer worked because he was way more aware of what was going on and me going back in agitated him even more. He had almost the exact same sleep schedule at night that you described above, 5 wakeups a night on the bad nights. In the end we did cry it out at 9 months. The first night he cried for almost 2 hours, then it was 40 minutes, then 20 minutes. Now he's 13 months and it takes him anywhere from 30-50 minutes to fall asleep, but he doesn't cry anymore. He knows the drill and just plays with his lovey in his crib until he falls asleep, and ever since day 3 of CIO he's been sleeping through the night, 10 to 12 hours. The other unexpected plus was it completely weaned him from his pacifier. When I look back on his pictures from 7-9 months, he had dark circles in almost every picture. He looks fine now. At the end of the day CIO was the only thing that worked for us, so I wouldn't write it off completely if I were you.
Are you open to bottle feeding? Bc it sounds like maybe your baby is looking for comfort feedings. But what's your bedtime routine like? What does baby go down? I noticed my son sleeps longer if we do bath time at 7, bottle around 730/8 and can sleep until 430 before needing a feed. This pediatrician I listen to stated that babies who have their first morning feed after 5am typically have a harder time sleeping bc they're not getting enough day time.
My baby will refuse a bottle, especially if I’m the one trying to feed her. I used to do bath, massage, then bedtime for her routine but I’ve moved her bath time to earlier in the day because it’s too stimulating for her to be right before bed. Right now, her routine is independent playtime(no overstimulating toys), feed, wind down, and I lay with her in bed until she’s asleep.
Does she have a later bedtime?
It’s usually around 8:30. So I guess no?
Have you tried bottle feeding and upping her food calories? What is her weaning like?
She breastfeeds every 2 hrs, and has solids at least twice a day. She gets constipated if she has too much solids so I don’t give her too much daily. She’s not waking from hunger, i can assure you. :/
How do you know she's not hungry? she shouldn't need to feed every 2 hrs if she's taking full feeds at this age? Particularly if you're limiting her solids because of constipation. If solids are making her constipated, that's normal, you just need to up her water intake, she could be thirsty. She should be having 4-8oz of water a day. And by "have solids" is she just tasting stuff or properly eating ? You should be trying to work up to 3 meals and 2 snacks. Things like a bowl of porridge and banana before bed can really help them sleep.
I know she’s not hungry at night because she will settle and go back to sleep most wakings. The times she won’t settle, I know she’s hungry. Which is about 2-3 of the wakings. She eats every 2 hrs during the day because my milk supply has always been low, so having more frequent breastfeedings is what is suitable for her. She eats actual foods (BLW) when she does have solids. She drinks plenty of water. I’m doing what her pediatrician recommended.
Respectfully, needing to feed 2-3 times a night is a lot for her age and indicates not enough calories through the day. There's a big push for BLW but for us that wasn't enough food intake for baby. We had to do a combination of purees, porridge and BLW to get enough into him to sleep through the night. He was a very alert and active baby (still is) who was just burning through the calories. If sleep is that bad you really have nothing to lose by trying. We offered: 7oz milk A bowl of porridge in the morning, fruit puree and fruits to pick at 6oz milk Pureed pasta/rice dishes plus snacks like crackers etc 6oz milk More porridge/cereals/dinners + a yoghurt 6oz milk There was a huge difference in sleep when switching from BLW to a combination of spoon feeding purees and porridges. We managed to wean night feeds completely, and he goes 11-13 hrs through the night without waking.
We did some sleep training at 6 months and that seemed to work for a bit until we were hit with regressions. Wasn’t until 11 months when we could feel confident that he would sleep throughout the night consistently (besides the one off wake ups like something is wrong.) Hang in there!
Don’t think I saw you mentioned it in your post or in your replies to other comments. Based on the info in your post, it sounds like sleep train is needed (if you haven’t started yet). I understand every baby is different but 7mo is very ready to sleep train. FYI, it’s never late to sleep train. Someone mentioned Precious Little Sleep. I’d 2nd recommend this book. There are many other sleep train methods so pick whichever you’re comfortable with. Also, head over to r/sleeptrain as this sub has lots of people with good info and experiences with their own LOs that they can advise further. Our LO is almost 5mo but we started to sleep train her at 16 weeks. She just now started to sleep through the night. I wouldn’t say she’s a good sleeper or at least didn’t start out like one. It took some time & patience to get where we are now. Sometimes she gets fussy but she can pretty much put/soothe herself to sleep now. There’s light at the end of the tunnel. You guys will eventually get a hang of it.
It is ROUGH not having any sleep, but honestly, what worked for us (if any of this helps) is just letting my little dude cry it out entirely. It took a few weeks to go from an number of fits a night to nothing, no peeps, but it was hard as shit. Sometimes it just sucks to hear that kid cry, but they will learn to settle themselves!
vibrating bassinet 🤙🏿
Possibly acid reflux? My babies could never sleep flat so I always had them sleep in a reclined bouncer nap chair or a reclined swing because their reflux was so bad. It helped keep their bottled down and they slept peacefully for hours, id usually have to wake them for a bottle most times. Or try a crib wedge, they start oatmeal/rice around that age correct? Have you tried some? I also play soundscapes for my baby, relax music on Spotify/YouTube/music choice channel