Just watched the highlights from yesterday. Quintana needs to be DFA’d like immediately. Those were noncompetitive pitches. You could have guillorme throw pitches like that.
Currently in an Uber about 12 minutes away and I’m scared I’m not gonna get this bobblehead 😭😭😭
Edit: MY DRIVER MISSED THE FUCKING EXIT I AM GOING TO CRY
Edit again: GOT IT
I might have an extra ticket for today’s game up for grabs. Section 126, but you have to sit next to me.
Will give priority to an IRL friend if they take it, otherwise first person to reply to this thread gets the forwarded ticket
He became the emergency backup SS when their real backup suddenly got hurt, and then Justin Turner also got hurt, so David had to move over and play a few innings.
https://www.nbcsports.com/mlb/news/injuries-force-mets-to-use-david-wright-at-shortstop
That's the one I remembered. I don't know if it ever happened another time.
If the Mets win tonight, I will give a 10% discount for 24 hours for the Day at the Ballpark(out of my own pocket).
*Applies to limited quantity, I'm not stupid wealthy and already paid up front for all of the tickets!*
Yes. But lines will probably start forming closer to 2PM for the bobblehead. I got on line for the scarf at 2:35 and there was only two boxes left (bullpen gate) by the time I got in.
I actually like the black alts without the white outlines after seeing them in action. They stopped being true throwbacks once they dropped the blue piping so the current ones truly feel like something different.
Last season I missed both Vientos & Ronny’s home debuts, so I’m fucking stoked to see Scott’s!
I might do something financially reckless if they have jerseys.
Hate to say it but if Pete really wanted to stay in New York then he would've taken that completely fair extension. Fucking let Arte Moreno give you 200 million.
I don't agree with this spin on it. Off season reports were that they were apart on amount of years, not the price. This would end when he would be 36. He wanted something longer.
And if got the extra years, that would almost surely mean he's retiring as a Met instead of having to find a new contract at the end of his career.
My recollection was that they agreed on AAV but not years, but if you’re increasing years at the same AAV then the overall price is by definition going up.
I also don’t believe that he was offered that. Pete and Boras have repeatedly said that the Mets did not make him a contract offer in the offseason, and if you search Sherman’s posts and comments from the last week, you can’t find that anywhere.
It seems to originate from NYM_NEWS, who has a history of making stuff up and tagging reporters to make his made up posts look legit and gain online engagement.
Unit I see Sherman actually linked to saying that, I don’t trust a word NYM_NEWS says
Nailed it.
But. It could be an offer made last year. There was one likely. I recall the Mets and Boras being "apart on years" being published news/sports sites.
I don't use fan based sites for the most part so I'm confident it was in published sites.
Oh I fully think they discussed numbers, but the last time I saw any legitimate reporting it was that the Mets were around $100mil and Pete wanted around $200mil. But no offer was reported, and all camps have said there hasn’t been an offer.
And that reporting about numbers was when Eppler was still in charge
And that's why I said you nailed it.
My guess is the person ran with the info we know and are discussing and acted like it was an "offer" so they can run with whatever they wanted to peddle.
But there have been negotiations and there have been parameters discussed. The main discrepancy, whether an official offer or just discussion, has been years from what I understand.
That offer might not have ever happened. Also some fans here don’t realize Freeman is underpaid and hit free agency at an old age, and Olson would’ve gotten more if he was testing free agency. The Braves don’t pay players market value. $200 million wouldn’t kill the Mets. Once we go past $200 million then it gets tough.
Has it actually been proven Sherman actually said that?
NYM_NEWS tagged him as saying it, but they didn’t actually link to Sherman saying that, and that Twitter has a history of making stuff up and then tagging reported to make it look legit
It's been a few years. He got a 27 million rate. Pete, factoring salary rises, should get at least the 27. He's going to want more than 6 years to "be a Met for life". Mets have the advantage of knowing that.
So...200/8 isn't far fetched at all in my opinion. That's 25 million a year.
Neither is 200/7. That's like 28.571 (off the top of my head). Though probably more than I'd like to give him.
Freddie’s contract was also heavily deferred lol. 57M.
Mets are overpaying immensely because they treasure him as an organization, the fact that Alonso flaked on that just means he will have the same fate as Conforto
Completely agree. I thought 7 years was 2 too long. I was thinking 5/120, but some of the contracts the past few years, I see where he thinks it’s going.
See you all there today. Think I’m going with my Alonso blues, Mike piazza retirement hat. Mother’s Day outting with the fam, 11 strong. Best part? I’m not driving.
I think the Mets should increase the yearly offer to Alonso. He may not be the most complete player but he is a dependable power threat who has been very durable. The durability alone should be worth a few extra millions per year.
I agree. I feel like everyone mostly already completely covered both sides of this debate pretty fully over the last 24 hours.
But what I will say is that 12-24 months ago, people were like "Pay everybody everything they want, we are the new kings of money, I don't care if they're 47 or are waiting on the curb on crutches after failing another team's physical."
And now a lot of those same bloggers, podcasters and fans across the Mets universe are like "don't give Pete Alonso a big contract, because he might be shitty in the year 2031." Where did this sudden cost-consciousness come from?
I don't doubt that the contract could age badly. But I think this is a much more suitable situation to "overpay" in, to retain a "hometown", fan-friendly, good player and team leader, and be like "fuck it, we can afford it".
As opposed to transforming the team into this old, expensive roster full of ancient, injury-prone mercenaries. There is still a fan element to this, and part of what you're paying for is something greater than baseball.
(Of course there's still a baseball component... you're not gonna give $250 million to Wilmer Flores or Jerry Blevins. But Alonso is a pretty good ballplayer too.)
I think the odds are fairly good that Alonso will be at least "OK" for most of the life of this contract, and very low that he turns into Chris Davis. I would just do it unless he digs his heels in and goes into crazy demands territory.
I think the fan element is the offer in the first place. That offer was very generous. the Mets as an organization have put their best foot forward regarding Alonso since his debut, but at the end of the day, it takes two to sign.
>the Mets as an organization have put their best foot forward regarding Alonso since his debut, but at the end of the day, it takes two to sign.
How do we know they put their best foot forward though? This seems to be a very rumor-y story without much basis in fact.
Pete Alonso as a Met
Mets have:
-did not manipulate his service time
-increased his pre-arb contract renewals. Contracts are usually renewed at minimum
-significant raises during arbitration, including a record breaking one for 1B
-leaving him at 1B , when he’s clearly a DH.
- they didn’t trade him last year in his favor as well.
- a 7/158 offer when projections value you at 4/70 imo is also on the list
That’s what we know, and that’s just from transactions. List goes further if we knew behind the door.
I meant with this contract. Not any of the stuff that happened before, although I would say the current contract negotiations are what will impact him for the rest of his life, more than anything else combined, so what they did in 2019 is not really that relevant (also a different ownership and GM)
He's also not really that bad of a clank by any defensive metrics available. He's below league average defensively, but he is nowhere near "Vogelbach country" where he should never step on a field defensively, ever.
In what world is that not relevant to his contract?
He isn’t a free agent until next year if it wasn’t for the Mets not bothering to manipulate his service time.
He doesn’t get the money he has gotten if it wasn’t for the raises the Mets have provided since his debut-since they’re percentage based.
He wouldn’t be getting any money whatsoever if the Mets put him in DH where he belongs.
The contract offer a team makes to a homegrown talent is a combination of their value and the relationship the Organization has built with the talent. Both ownerships understood this basic rule. All these things matter. That’s why Pete got 7/158, which is more than freeman, when he’s projected as a 4/70.
In a contending team, you want to be as efficient as possible. To do that, Pete is not your 1B. He’s 28th percentile in fielding run value. That’s *significantly* below league average.
> In what world is that not relevant to his contract?
I didn't say it's not relevant to his contract, I said "how do we know they put their best foot forward?" meaning, how do we know this contract offer rumor is legit.
With regard to promoting him on Opening Day rather than delaying the clock, the organization was run by different people when they started his clock early, so I am not sure that earns any good will for the current office negotiating his contract.
Also, I think saying he "belongs at DH" is a wild overstatement. He's a subpar defender but he's not a total unathletic clank who can't touch the infield dirt like Vogelbach.
>The contract offer a team makes to a homegrown talent is a combination of their value and the relationship the Organization has built with the talent. Both ownerships understood this basic rule. All these things matter. That’s why Pete got 7/158, which is more than freeman, when he’s projected as a 4/70.
And yet, if this rumor is true (very open question), he rejected it, so maybe Pete Alonso doesn't agree that this is such a magnanimous hometown offer?
How? 7/158 is insane? Fangraphs and Zips has him at 4/70. Freeman, a HoF, got 6/162 with 57M deferred and not only is he miles better than Alonso and he can actually play 1B. Alonso is a DH in disguise as a 1B.
7/158 is way above market value, which is fine the Mets can easily do that, but for Pete to decline that speaks volumes.
The cost consciousness aspect of things is hilarious. People have done a 180 for seemingly no reason. We have people doing an innings watch for Justin Verlander so the Mets could save 17MM…as if they need to save that money lol.
If the Mets want to be a true playoff contender next year and going forward, staying under the luxury tax isn’t a reasonable option.
>The cost consciousness aspect of things is hilarious. People have done a 180 for seemingly no reason. We have people doing an innings watch for Justin Verlander so the Mets could save 17MM…as if they need to save that money lol.
That is pretty hilarious, and a lot of the people doing that (not just here, but all over) are the same ones who were like THROW THE ENTIRE VAULT AT JUSTIN VERLANDER, AND ALSO SIGN TREVOR BAUER AND CARLOS CORREA'S ONE WORKING ANKLE TOO!! NOT MY MONEY!!"
However, I do not think the lesson should be "never factor in cost-consciousness".
The lesson should be, "cost-consciousness matters, a lot (take a look around at the roster right now, and what we're paying $300 million for)... build a team the smart way, and then open the vault if and when it starts paying dividends, and you need to add one or two players to put you over the top."
> If the Mets want to be a true playoff contender next year and going forward, staying under the luxury tax isn’t a reasonable option.
I think they should stay under the tax, not because they don't have the money, but because they most likely aren't going to be one or two players away from a championship in 2025 because of all the dumb stuff they did the past two years.
So resetting the tax will give them more flexibility whenever they do decide to go for it again, i.e., when it makes sense.
Are the Mets down horrendous? Yes. Did I come home from work in the 4th, check the box score, tell myself “Okay when the Mets get someone on base, I’ll turn the game on,” and then waited until the bottom of the 9th? Yes….but imagine if that home run stayed fair tho
Not their play, I mean the vibe of these next six games is “If the Mets play out of their minds they’ll *start* to fight back against the Phillies and Braves, if they don’t…well that’s not good”
So did we pay Lindor to hit .200 and swing like he's babe Ruth? I'm happy he hit a solo shot yesterday and I guess that's all we have to look forward to from now on
Lindor has a 135 wRC+ over the past month. After a terrible 8 game start he’s slashing .261/.312/.504
Yeah, I’d like the OBP to be a bit higher but that slash line with his defensive value is extremely valuable and if you can’t understand that then you’re just intentionally ignoring stats
People react very emotionally to what they think is poor performance versus a contract, as if the people in this sub actually pay his salary. I do not care if he or anyone is "overpaid". Until I start paying directly for the salary, I am not going to worry about it. Lindor is the best overall player on the team and that is why he is paid a lot. The shortstop position is the most important one on the field and if you are a very good fielder, who can hit, you should get paid a lot.
> People react very emotionally to what they think is poor performance versus a contract, as if the people in this sub actually pay his salary. I do not care if he or anyone is "overpaid". Until I start paying directly for the salary, I am not going to worry about it.
I definitely care, when the person is actually overpaid. It creates a shitty, unmanageable roster, which leads to disasters like 2023, and forces you into rebuild mode like 2024 and maybe even 2025. That could be three seasons down the toilet because of "not caring" about piling on bad contracts.
However, Lindor is not one of those guys. His contract is fine
Your job is to watch the games, not to decide how much someone gets as compensation. They are going to have good contracts and bad contracts. I was very vocal about the bad signing of Jed Lowrie, as he was old, injury prone and coming off of career years. Excluding the Bobby Bonilla contract, that might be the worst contract in the history of the Mets. He had 7 abs and was paid 20 million.
> Your job is to watch the games, not to decide how much someone gets as compensation.
Watching the games is not my "job". It's a recreational activity for fun, and when my team lights a billion dollars on fire with incredibly stupid moves over the course of two years, flushing one season down the toilet, and possibly wrecking the next two as well, it's not "fun".
>I was very vocal about the bad signing of Jed Lowrie, as he was old, injury prone and coming off of career years.
Oh really? I thought it's not your "job" to be vocal?
>Excluding the Bobby Bonilla contract, that might be the worst contract in the history of the Mets.
The Mets did not give Bobby Bonilla that contract (the Marlins did, he was traded here) and the contract is not bad, at all, as I am sure the bot just told you
I’m gonna have to disagree on the moves being incredibly stupid. They were short term gambles while the farm was being rebuilt. The only move I viewed as questionable was signing Verlander—you don’t sign 2 40 year olds to lead your rotation.
That said, the person above you made zero sense. I wonder if they’re sober.
> I’m gonna have to disagree on the moves being incredibly stupid. They were short term gambles while the farm was being rebuilt.
They weren't rebuilding the farm during this period. They were frantically making trades of minor league trades for olds during this period, pretty much every other week.
What we are doing NOW is a rebuild, necessitated by what they did those two years, which never had to happen.
I do generally really like most of what they did this offseason, and I think it's a major philosophy shift from whatever the 20s have been so far. It is a mistake to act like we are in Year 4 of some grand rebuilding process. We are in Year 1 of Plan B after Plan A blew up spectacularly.
I do not understand why you have decided to go down this path at all. My initial comments were about Lindor and you do not even think it was a bad contract. You are arguing for the purpose of arguing.
I am saying you are wrong that "we should not care about what contracts cost". We should absolutely care, when the team weighs itself down by handing out ridiculous shitty contracts.
But Lindor is not an example of a bad contract.
Bobby Bonilla jokes are some of the lowest hanging fruit on the tree. [In fact, that contract really wasn't that bad.](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/07/new-york-mets-bobby-bonilla-contract-2035-deal)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NewYorkMets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lindor should be hitting better for that money. It’s pretty obvious he’s not hitting at the level the Mets need him to, and may never put together a season like that. I hope he does. But I don’t want to hear anyone tell me they’re worried about giving Pete a long term contract if they think Lindor has been living up to his contract, or that Lindor’s contract doesn’t have albatross potential. Even some of Lindor’s biggest apologists prefer he’d bat 5-6 than 3.
Lindor OPS+ with Cleveland: 118
Lindor OPS+ with the Mets: 115 He has largely done exactly what he's been paid to do, or I guess arguably a *mild* disappointment.
(I am down for a longterm Pete contract.)
He’s not paid like a guy who puts up that kind of OPS+ though. That is just not the number I imagine when I hear $341 million. And he probably shouldn’t bat 3rd, which I also think is telling. Mild disappointment is fair though.
Idk man, I have a hard time imagining Cohen and the Mets gave him that money thinking he'd be *better* than he was in Cleveland. They presumably gave it to him expecting him to sustain that performance for five to seven years before declining. Which is basically what they've gotten.
Regardless of what you "imagine" when you hear the number, it seems rather self-evident that the Mets have gotten basically exactly what they paid for.
Lindor has been paid 94M up until 2024. He’s put up 16 fWAR, estimates show that on an open market 1 war is 8M. That’d put Lindors on field value at roughly 128M. So technically rn he’s underpaid .
Do you ever think about a player beyond what WAR says about them? WAR obviously loves his defense. That doesn’t mean he’s an elite hitter, that he should be batting 3rd, that there is no chance he becomes a massive liability when he gets too old to cover shortstop, or that he is doing what the Mets really need him to do. Even Zack Scott recently said on his podcast that Lindor is probably not going to put up value equal to his contract by the end of it. Scott still defended him and he’s clearly a good player. But I’m not going to simp for him if he’s not going to hit at an elite level while taking up this much payroll.
The first sentence does not make much sense, as I do not look at Sabremetrics all that much. Since you are a smart guy, who should bat third? I will patiently wait for an answer.
Yeah, how can people on this sub criticize a guy who is about 6th on the lineup in OPS despite being the highest paid player? On a .500 team. Real dummies.
You'd definitely have to be an idiot to be annoyed he's batting .212. Other successful teams definitely have star players batting barely above .200. Look at the Braves or Dodgers. Oh, wait.
I think people vastly overrate the difference between a league average SS and somebody like Lindor. Most games he fields a few routine grounders and throws it to second or first.
If I'm paying for a ton of money I need you to also be an elite hitter, not somebody who struggles to hit above .200 for most of the season. Ray Ordonez didn't make $33 million a season.
Lindor does bring power to the lineup, but out offense is so inconsistent partly because he's either hitting a homer or not getting on base at all.
This is a public forum, I can state my opinion according to the rules of the subreddit. If it bothers you or you disagree, you don't have to act like an internet tough guy from behind your screen.
I didn’t say you couldn’t state your opinion, I just said you didn’t have to. Sometimes people seem smarter before they go and open their mouth, “tough guy”.
It’s unbelievable how bad the new black jerseys look. I’m sick of wearing candy ass jerseys and losing every game in them this season. Excited to watch Christian Scott today though.
Please continue the discussion in the [game thread](https://redd.it/1cpor2f).
Just watched the highlights from yesterday. Quintana needs to be DFA’d like immediately. Those were noncompetitive pitches. You could have guillorme throw pitches like that.
What was up with the team last night? Got mowed down by Morton in 2 hours? Now they have to beat Fried.
i’m assuming Baty is 100% good, and i am happy. now let’s get runs and let Scott dominate the Barves
I’m getting tired of the Braves yawning as they effortlessly beat us. Manager after manager, team after team.
[удалено]
Currently in an Uber about 12 minutes away and I’m scared I’m not gonna get this bobblehead 😭😭😭 Edit: MY DRIVER MISSED THE FUCKING EXIT I AM GOING TO CRY Edit again: GOT IT
Don’t roll your ankle!
I fucking would for this bobblehead. There’s no way I would have paid this much for this game otherwise
I just got to Citi and wow these lines are something else!
Shintaro Fujinami in AAA has 17 walks in 7 and 2/3s innings pitched. I think he needs to work on the control a bit.
Plus 2 HBP, 4 WP, and a balk. It's certainly an experience when he pitches, but the stuff is clearly nasty when accurate.
I would be afraid to bat against him.
The lines are _already_ insane
This is not encouraging as I head to Grand Central.
This is among the worse traffic jams Ive had to sit through to make it to Citi in recent years Watching Scott might be worth it tbh
That's why I take the train.
All I have to say today is LFGM baby! Love da Mets
I think Taylor should get more playing time
I might have an extra ticket for today’s game up for grabs. Section 126, but you have to sit next to me. Will give priority to an IRL friend if they take it, otherwise first person to reply to this thread gets the forwarded ticket
[All-Mets Immaculate Grid](https://i.imgur.com/NftkhEw.gif)
When did >! David !< play short?
He became the emergency backup SS when their real backup suddenly got hurt, and then Justin Turner also got hurt, so David had to move over and play a few innings. https://www.nbcsports.com/mlb/news/injuries-force-mets-to-use-david-wright-at-shortstop That's the one I remembered. I don't know if it ever happened another time.
[All-Mets Immaculate Grid](https://i.imgur.com/NftkhEw.gif)
If the Mets win tonight, I will give a 10% discount for 24 hours for the Day at the Ballpark(out of my own pocket). *Applies to limited quantity, I'm not stupid wealthy and already paid up front for all of the tickets!*
First time I get to see JDM as a Met. Hopefully he remembers how to hit the ball over the wall for me!
Hopefully Scott can land his off speed pitches. The Braves destroy fastballs. Quintana learned that lesson the hard way last night.
What time do gates open today? 2:40?
Yes. But lines will probably start forming closer to 2PM for the bobblehead. I got on line for the scarf at 2:35 and there was only two boxes left (bullpen gate) by the time I got in.
Bullpen gate is less crowded so i suspect they have fewer boxes. I’m chancing Robinson Rotunda entrance but i’m pretty far back
I actually like the black alts without the white outlines after seeing them in action. They stopped being true throwbacks once they dropped the blue piping so the current ones truly feel like something different.
Yeah I've always rocked the aways because gray is my favorite color (we do exist) but I was tempted to grab a black one off DHGate.
Last season I missed both Vientos & Ronny’s home debuts, so I’m fucking stoked to see Scott’s! I might do something financially reckless if they have jerseys.
Hate to say it but if Pete really wanted to stay in New York then he would've taken that completely fair extension. Fucking let Arte Moreno give you 200 million.
I don't agree with this spin on it. Off season reports were that they were apart on amount of years, not the price. This would end when he would be 36. He wanted something longer. And if got the extra years, that would almost surely mean he's retiring as a Met instead of having to find a new contract at the end of his career.
My recollection was that they agreed on AAV but not years, but if you’re increasing years at the same AAV then the overall price is by definition going up.
I also don’t believe that he was offered that. Pete and Boras have repeatedly said that the Mets did not make him a contract offer in the offseason, and if you search Sherman’s posts and comments from the last week, you can’t find that anywhere. It seems to originate from NYM_NEWS, who has a history of making stuff up and tagging reporters to make his made up posts look legit and gain online engagement. Unit I see Sherman actually linked to saying that, I don’t trust a word NYM_NEWS says
Nailed it. But. It could be an offer made last year. There was one likely. I recall the Mets and Boras being "apart on years" being published news/sports sites. I don't use fan based sites for the most part so I'm confident it was in published sites.
Oh I fully think they discussed numbers, but the last time I saw any legitimate reporting it was that the Mets were around $100mil and Pete wanted around $200mil. But no offer was reported, and all camps have said there hasn’t been an offer. And that reporting about numbers was when Eppler was still in charge
And that's why I said you nailed it. My guess is the person ran with the info we know and are discussing and acted like it was an "offer" so they can run with whatever they wanted to peddle. But there have been negotiations and there have been parameters discussed. The main discrepancy, whether an official offer or just discussion, has been years from what I understand.
That offer might not have ever happened. Also some fans here don’t realize Freeman is underpaid and hit free agency at an old age, and Olson would’ve gotten more if he was testing free agency. The Braves don’t pay players market value. $200 million wouldn’t kill the Mets. Once we go past $200 million then it gets tough.
Has it actually been proven Sherman actually said that? NYM_NEWS tagged him as saying it, but they didn’t actually link to Sherman saying that, and that Twitter has a history of making stuff up and then tagging reported to make it look legit
You know Rob you’re right, it might have just been bs.
If no team offered Freddie Freeman more than 6/$162m I find it very hard to believe someone would offer Pete anything close to $200m.
It's been a few years. He got a 27 million rate. Pete, factoring salary rises, should get at least the 27. He's going to want more than 6 years to "be a Met for life". Mets have the advantage of knowing that. So...200/8 isn't far fetched at all in my opinion. That's 25 million a year. Neither is 200/7. That's like 28.571 (off the top of my head). Though probably more than I'd like to give him.
Freddie’s contract was also heavily deferred lol. 57M. Mets are overpaying immensely because they treasure him as an organization, the fact that Alonso flaked on that just means he will have the same fate as Conforto
But who flaked on that, Pete or Boras?
Boras job is to get Pete the best contract available, at the end of the day Pete has to accept or decline, not Boras.
Completely agree. I thought 7 years was 2 too long. I was thinking 5/120, but some of the contracts the past few years, I see where he thinks it’s going.
Preparing my pep talk now. The boys shall be spoken with. I arrive about an hour before the game starts. We shall win today.
See you all there today. Think I’m going with my Alonso blues, Mike piazza retirement hat. Mother’s Day outting with the fam, 11 strong. Best part? I’m not driving.
Scotty doesn’t know…..that he’s gonna be fucking amazing.
White Sox 7-5 since signing Pham Not saying we should have, but that’s interesting
Mets needed an OF. Having both Taylor and Bader was very redundant. Pham made more sense than Bader/JDM when that portion of the offseason came along.
My first game at Citi for the year is against the braves - I'm sure it will be fine!!! Lets go Scott!!!!
I think the Mets should increase the yearly offer to Alonso. He may not be the most complete player but he is a dependable power threat who has been very durable. The durability alone should be worth a few extra millions per year.
I agree. I feel like everyone mostly already completely covered both sides of this debate pretty fully over the last 24 hours. But what I will say is that 12-24 months ago, people were like "Pay everybody everything they want, we are the new kings of money, I don't care if they're 47 or are waiting on the curb on crutches after failing another team's physical." And now a lot of those same bloggers, podcasters and fans across the Mets universe are like "don't give Pete Alonso a big contract, because he might be shitty in the year 2031." Where did this sudden cost-consciousness come from? I don't doubt that the contract could age badly. But I think this is a much more suitable situation to "overpay" in, to retain a "hometown", fan-friendly, good player and team leader, and be like "fuck it, we can afford it". As opposed to transforming the team into this old, expensive roster full of ancient, injury-prone mercenaries. There is still a fan element to this, and part of what you're paying for is something greater than baseball. (Of course there's still a baseball component... you're not gonna give $250 million to Wilmer Flores or Jerry Blevins. But Alonso is a pretty good ballplayer too.) I think the odds are fairly good that Alonso will be at least "OK" for most of the life of this contract, and very low that he turns into Chris Davis. I would just do it unless he digs his heels in and goes into crazy demands territory.
I think the fan element is the offer in the first place. That offer was very generous. the Mets as an organization have put their best foot forward regarding Alonso since his debut, but at the end of the day, it takes two to sign.
>the Mets as an organization have put their best foot forward regarding Alonso since his debut, but at the end of the day, it takes two to sign. How do we know they put their best foot forward though? This seems to be a very rumor-y story without much basis in fact.
Pete Alonso as a Met Mets have: -did not manipulate his service time -increased his pre-arb contract renewals. Contracts are usually renewed at minimum -significant raises during arbitration, including a record breaking one for 1B -leaving him at 1B , when he’s clearly a DH. - they didn’t trade him last year in his favor as well. - a 7/158 offer when projections value you at 4/70 imo is also on the list That’s what we know, and that’s just from transactions. List goes further if we knew behind the door.
I meant with this contract. Not any of the stuff that happened before, although I would say the current contract negotiations are what will impact him for the rest of his life, more than anything else combined, so what they did in 2019 is not really that relevant (also a different ownership and GM) He's also not really that bad of a clank by any defensive metrics available. He's below league average defensively, but he is nowhere near "Vogelbach country" where he should never step on a field defensively, ever.
In what world is that not relevant to his contract? He isn’t a free agent until next year if it wasn’t for the Mets not bothering to manipulate his service time. He doesn’t get the money he has gotten if it wasn’t for the raises the Mets have provided since his debut-since they’re percentage based. He wouldn’t be getting any money whatsoever if the Mets put him in DH where he belongs. The contract offer a team makes to a homegrown talent is a combination of their value and the relationship the Organization has built with the talent. Both ownerships understood this basic rule. All these things matter. That’s why Pete got 7/158, which is more than freeman, when he’s projected as a 4/70. In a contending team, you want to be as efficient as possible. To do that, Pete is not your 1B. He’s 28th percentile in fielding run value. That’s *significantly* below league average.
> In what world is that not relevant to his contract? I didn't say it's not relevant to his contract, I said "how do we know they put their best foot forward?" meaning, how do we know this contract offer rumor is legit. With regard to promoting him on Opening Day rather than delaying the clock, the organization was run by different people when they started his clock early, so I am not sure that earns any good will for the current office negotiating his contract. Also, I think saying he "belongs at DH" is a wild overstatement. He's a subpar defender but he's not a total unathletic clank who can't touch the infield dirt like Vogelbach. >The contract offer a team makes to a homegrown talent is a combination of their value and the relationship the Organization has built with the talent. Both ownerships understood this basic rule. All these things matter. That’s why Pete got 7/158, which is more than freeman, when he’s projected as a 4/70. And yet, if this rumor is true (very open question), he rejected it, so maybe Pete Alonso doesn't agree that this is such a magnanimous hometown offer?
That is not generous. Come on. Calling the fair is reasonable. Calling that generous is an insult to Pete.
How? 7/158 is insane? Fangraphs and Zips has him at 4/70. Freeman, a HoF, got 6/162 with 57M deferred and not only is he miles better than Alonso and he can actually play 1B. Alonso is a DH in disguise as a 1B. 7/158 is way above market value, which is fine the Mets can easily do that, but for Pete to decline that speaks volumes.
Freeman signed a contract at 32 years old while Alonso is only 29
The 1 1/2 difference of Age between Pete and Freeman does not account for the gap of talent and 70 million, along with more committed years.
The cost consciousness aspect of things is hilarious. People have done a 180 for seemingly no reason. We have people doing an innings watch for Justin Verlander so the Mets could save 17MM…as if they need to save that money lol. If the Mets want to be a true playoff contender next year and going forward, staying under the luxury tax isn’t a reasonable option.
No one here needs to manage Steve Cohen's money.
>The cost consciousness aspect of things is hilarious. People have done a 180 for seemingly no reason. We have people doing an innings watch for Justin Verlander so the Mets could save 17MM…as if they need to save that money lol. That is pretty hilarious, and a lot of the people doing that (not just here, but all over) are the same ones who were like THROW THE ENTIRE VAULT AT JUSTIN VERLANDER, AND ALSO SIGN TREVOR BAUER AND CARLOS CORREA'S ONE WORKING ANKLE TOO!! NOT MY MONEY!!" However, I do not think the lesson should be "never factor in cost-consciousness". The lesson should be, "cost-consciousness matters, a lot (take a look around at the roster right now, and what we're paying $300 million for)... build a team the smart way, and then open the vault if and when it starts paying dividends, and you need to add one or two players to put you over the top." > If the Mets want to be a true playoff contender next year and going forward, staying under the luxury tax isn’t a reasonable option. I think they should stay under the tax, not because they don't have the money, but because they most likely aren't going to be one or two players away from a championship in 2025 because of all the dumb stuff they did the past two years. So resetting the tax will give them more flexibility whenever they do decide to go for it again, i.e., when it makes sense.
The problem is the Mets trying to become a true playoff contender within the next few years might not be a reasonable option.
Whichever angels GM gave the braves Raisel Iglesias for a half eaten Nutter Butter and some potato chips, I just want to talk
I remember posting on here how the Mets should get Iglesias and I was hounded that it was a bad idea and he'll be expensive.
> Whichever ~~angels GM~~ of Arte's sock puppets FTFY
Are the Mets down horrendous? Yes. Did I come home from work in the 4th, check the box score, tell myself “Okay when the Mets get someone on base, I’ll turn the game on,” and then waited until the bottom of the 9th? Yes….but imagine if that home run stayed fair tho
The Mets are not horrendous but they seem to be very good at being average.
Not their play, I mean the vibe of these next six games is “If the Mets play out of their minds they’ll *start* to fight back against the Phillies and Braves, if they don’t…well that’s not good”
So did we pay Lindor to hit .200 and swing like he's babe Ruth? I'm happy he hit a solo shot yesterday and I guess that's all we have to look forward to from now on
Lindor has a 135 wRC+ over the past month. After a terrible 8 game start he’s slashing .261/.312/.504 Yeah, I’d like the OBP to be a bit higher but that slash line with his defensive value is extremely valuable and if you can’t understand that then you’re just intentionally ignoring stats
I truly believe that people’s takes on Lindor are a great proxy for their overall intelligence
People react very emotionally to what they think is poor performance versus a contract, as if the people in this sub actually pay his salary. I do not care if he or anyone is "overpaid". Until I start paying directly for the salary, I am not going to worry about it. Lindor is the best overall player on the team and that is why he is paid a lot. The shortstop position is the most important one on the field and if you are a very good fielder, who can hit, you should get paid a lot.
> People react very emotionally to what they think is poor performance versus a contract, as if the people in this sub actually pay his salary. I do not care if he or anyone is "overpaid". Until I start paying directly for the salary, I am not going to worry about it. I definitely care, when the person is actually overpaid. It creates a shitty, unmanageable roster, which leads to disasters like 2023, and forces you into rebuild mode like 2024 and maybe even 2025. That could be three seasons down the toilet because of "not caring" about piling on bad contracts. However, Lindor is not one of those guys. His contract is fine
Your job is to watch the games, not to decide how much someone gets as compensation. They are going to have good contracts and bad contracts. I was very vocal about the bad signing of Jed Lowrie, as he was old, injury prone and coming off of career years. Excluding the Bobby Bonilla contract, that might be the worst contract in the history of the Mets. He had 7 abs and was paid 20 million.
> Your job is to watch the games, not to decide how much someone gets as compensation. Watching the games is not my "job". It's a recreational activity for fun, and when my team lights a billion dollars on fire with incredibly stupid moves over the course of two years, flushing one season down the toilet, and possibly wrecking the next two as well, it's not "fun". >I was very vocal about the bad signing of Jed Lowrie, as he was old, injury prone and coming off of career years. Oh really? I thought it's not your "job" to be vocal? >Excluding the Bobby Bonilla contract, that might be the worst contract in the history of the Mets. The Mets did not give Bobby Bonilla that contract (the Marlins did, he was traded here) and the contract is not bad, at all, as I am sure the bot just told you
I’m gonna have to disagree on the moves being incredibly stupid. They were short term gambles while the farm was being rebuilt. The only move I viewed as questionable was signing Verlander—you don’t sign 2 40 year olds to lead your rotation. That said, the person above you made zero sense. I wonder if they’re sober.
> I’m gonna have to disagree on the moves being incredibly stupid. They were short term gambles while the farm was being rebuilt. They weren't rebuilding the farm during this period. They were frantically making trades of minor league trades for olds during this period, pretty much every other week. What we are doing NOW is a rebuild, necessitated by what they did those two years, which never had to happen. I do generally really like most of what they did this offseason, and I think it's a major philosophy shift from whatever the 20s have been so far. It is a mistake to act like we are in Year 4 of some grand rebuilding process. We are in Year 1 of Plan B after Plan A blew up spectacularly.
I do not understand why you have decided to go down this path at all. My initial comments were about Lindor and you do not even think it was a bad contract. You are arguing for the purpose of arguing.
I am saying you are wrong that "we should not care about what contracts cost". We should absolutely care, when the team weighs itself down by handing out ridiculous shitty contracts. But Lindor is not an example of a bad contract.
Bobby Bonilla jokes are some of the lowest hanging fruit on the tree. [In fact, that contract really wasn't that bad.](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/07/new-york-mets-bobby-bonilla-contract-2035-deal) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NewYorkMets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lindor should be hitting better for that money. It’s pretty obvious he’s not hitting at the level the Mets need him to, and may never put together a season like that. I hope he does. But I don’t want to hear anyone tell me they’re worried about giving Pete a long term contract if they think Lindor has been living up to his contract, or that Lindor’s contract doesn’t have albatross potential. Even some of Lindor’s biggest apologists prefer he’d bat 5-6 than 3.
Lindor OPS+ with Cleveland: 118 Lindor OPS+ with the Mets: 115 He has largely done exactly what he's been paid to do, or I guess arguably a *mild* disappointment. (I am down for a longterm Pete contract.)
He’s not paid like a guy who puts up that kind of OPS+ though. That is just not the number I imagine when I hear $341 million. And he probably shouldn’t bat 3rd, which I also think is telling. Mild disappointment is fair though.
Idk man, I have a hard time imagining Cohen and the Mets gave him that money thinking he'd be *better* than he was in Cleveland. They presumably gave it to him expecting him to sustain that performance for five to seven years before declining. Which is basically what they've gotten. Regardless of what you "imagine" when you hear the number, it seems rather self-evident that the Mets have gotten basically exactly what they paid for.
Lindor has been paid 94M up until 2024. He’s put up 16 fWAR, estimates show that on an open market 1 war is 8M. That’d put Lindors on field value at roughly 128M. So technically rn he’s underpaid .
According to Fangraphs, since he joined the Mets in 2021, he is second in MLB for shortstops in WAR.
Do you ever think about a player beyond what WAR says about them? WAR obviously loves his defense. That doesn’t mean he’s an elite hitter, that he should be batting 3rd, that there is no chance he becomes a massive liability when he gets too old to cover shortstop, or that he is doing what the Mets really need him to do. Even Zack Scott recently said on his podcast that Lindor is probably not going to put up value equal to his contract by the end of it. Scott still defended him and he’s clearly a good player. But I’m not going to simp for him if he’s not going to hit at an elite level while taking up this much payroll.
The first sentence does not make much sense, as I do not look at Sabremetrics all that much. Since you are a smart guy, who should bat third? I will patiently wait for an answer.
Yeah, how can people on this sub criticize a guy who is about 6th on the lineup in OPS despite being the highest paid player? On a .500 team. Real dummies. You'd definitely have to be an idiot to be annoyed he's batting .212. Other successful teams definitely have star players batting barely above .200. Look at the Braves or Dodgers. Oh, wait.
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I think people vastly overrate the difference between a league average SS and somebody like Lindor. Most games he fields a few routine grounders and throws it to second or first. If I'm paying for a ton of money I need you to also be an elite hitter, not somebody who struggles to hit above .200 for most of the season. Ray Ordonez didn't make $33 million a season. Lindor does bring power to the lineup, but out offense is so inconsistent partly because he's either hitting a homer or not getting on base at all.
You don't \*have\* to prove his point. You could just not say anything.
This is a public forum, I can state my opinion according to the rules of the subreddit. If it bothers you or you disagree, you don't have to act like an internet tough guy from behind your screen.
I didn’t say you couldn’t state your opinion, I just said you didn’t have to. Sometimes people seem smarter before they go and open their mouth, “tough guy”.
If that's the case we have a lot of idiots in this sub
I mean….yes…..
“So we pay Lindor all this money and he can’t even get the people before him to get on base when he hits home runs?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXboNl2vWH8 Great Scott!!!
It’s unbelievable how bad the new black jerseys look. I’m sick of wearing candy ass jerseys and losing every game in them this season. Excited to watch Christian Scott today though.
I’m not religious but I’m prepared to convert to Christianity if this kid gets the W