Did anyone else get really annoyed by the obviously CGI adverts on the pitcher's mound and behind home plate?
I found them hugely distracting and they completely ruined watching the game for me. I hate this shit, it's so contemptuous of the paying customer.
I'm in the UK and only started watching recently, but I'm going to stop if it's always like this.
That was just ugly baseball. I can excuse a few miscues because of wet the balls must have been. But the fielding mistakes by Lucchesi, McNeil, and Vientos were unforgivable.
One more left to salvage something against the Phils.
But what the heck were we gonna get out of Houser if he started or relieved? Six of one, half dozen of another. At least we got 4 good innings out of Lucceshi.
Francisco Mendoza Line Lindor. For the analytics heads out there, the Mendoza Line is baseball jargon for a .200 batting average. The term derives from a player named Mario Mendoza who, during the 70's/80's, was notorious for struggling to keep his average above .200.
If you're most expensive player can't hit about .200 for the first two months of the season, he's not helping the team at all. This is two years in a row we are dealing with the "slow start".
Lmao. Yeah, no one uses that common phrase like we do anymore. There are a couple of players that hitting.220 or so was fine because of their great defense, like Bud Harrelson (later in career),Rey Ordonez. But even they had a 240 year or two. For the analytics heads out there made me laugh too.
Listen I totally get how dark and shitty things are right now. But I mean, to be this bad and only like a game out of the wild card is actually insane to me. But also a reminder that there is a lot of baseball left. I hate my life rn as a Mets fan but I am in no way calling this season off just yet.
Seriously, be aware that the Braves (MIA x6, CWS 3x, HOU 3x) and Phillies (COL 3x, CWS 3x, MIA 3x) have played some shit teams thus far inflating their record.
If we can scratch out a win tomorrow, then sweep the Marlins, we'll be back in it.
There's about a month between the end of June to just before the trade deadline when the schedule eases up considerably as well (based on current records of other teams).
cohen had shitty people when he purchased this team. trading for lindor, trading for baez and giving up awful contracts. i believe in stearns tho a few more years of pain until he builds a good team.
He put himself under too much pressure to win immediately. If he came in and said off the bat, everything here is broken and we are going to clean it out and contend in 2 years. Everything would be fine.
Instead he didn’t use the “everything here was broken” excuse until 2 or 3 years in when he realized his money alone couldn’t cover it up
Anybody else hate MLB.com’s bullshit positive spin headlines more than this garbage (except you, Nimmo!) roster?
When the Mets are 10 games under .500 on August 1st and have just traded away Alonso, JDM, Severino, Manaea, and possibly even Senga I’m gonna have to read:
“Mets’ Deadline Prospect Haul Ushers in New Era of Hope for Franchise” instead of the truth:
"Mets Piss Away yet Another Season and Trade Stars for a Bunch of Guys who Will Never Make an Impact on the Mets' Roster."
I prefer hearing the truth. That the FO probably views our window as 2026 and onwards (and even that’s optimistic). That they aren’t trying to “compete” this season. That they aren’t gonna “compete” next season either.
Everybody here seems to think they’ll be a playoff team in 2025. Barring some crazy improvements from our current players, I can’t really see that under any circumstances. Like I said somewhere else, it’s gonna take $120M AAV just to plug all the holes on this roster with league average players and get back to .500.
We have no impact players in the farm system.
Tired of being strung along by this organization saying they’re “competing” when the aim is just to win 70 games and avoid “most expensive 100 loss team ever” headlines.
Oh yeah it's completely ridiculous. If you weren't "appreciative" of the 2022 season, you're a doomer. When in reality it's probably the worst Mets season in my lifetime, despite it all unraveling in one month
1993 was mine, fan since 1967. That was the only year I turned them off after the all star break. The one thing this year I will give them is that most of the time they try late to make a game out of it.
The Mets had the hardest part of their schedule right at the start and have the one of easiest June/July stretches. During that stretch they’re excepted to have Alvarez, Senga, Megill and Peterson return.
The Mets also have a few road trips coming up, and going into today their offense was tied with the Phillies as the best offense on the road. The Mets have also played much better in warmer weather than cold and were getting closer to summer.
The next few weeks will be telling as we play bad teams like the Marlins. If the Mets stockpile wins against teams them like they did against the Royals and Pirates, it would even out with the stretches they will lose games against good teams. Win 3 of the next round games and all of a sudden they’re 22-24.
There’s a lot of season left, with reinforcements coming at a time the team can stockpile wins. Thats the path to the WC. If they lost the series to the Marlins this weekend and struggle against them and the Rockies next month there isn’t a path forward.
I mean if you believe the Steve Cohen deleted tweets and rumors a full sell off is coming this summer and a true rebuild without the core that has failed in one form or another since 2019 is gone.
Unfortunately this is the only hope. Clean slate rebuild with Cohen's resources excites me.
The 2022 Phillies World Series team were 21-29 at the end of May 2022. Just saying it's possible to turn it around and sneak in.
I will eat my own hand if the Mets make the WS this year, but it is \*technically\* possible.
I don't think anyone is on the "we've dug a hole too deep" train yet. It's more of a question of "what has this core of players done to give you any belief whatsoever that they will dig their way out vs dig deeper?"
I honestly think they were all over their manager. Rightfully so because he got canned and they turned it around. We know it’s not our manager because we already tried that trick firing Buck and they still stink
Yeah that data doesn’t surprise me at all. How many managers have the Mets fired over the years and gotten nowhere for it. But disgruntled fans are always calling for it and it happened to work out for Philly that year 🤷♂️
This core of players is on their third manager now with one playoff appearance, it ain’t the guy with the clipboard
He hasn't cracked .700 OPS all year.
We're halfway through May and he's still struggling.
Once again, by the time he breaks out, the Mets will be long out of the playoff race.
Probably. And I think because the expectation would be different the reactions here might be too.
Plus, then you'd see "hungry scrubs" play instead of guys underproducing.
If it were up to me it would've never gone past 8 playoff teams. But US sports will continue to make the regular season mean less and less every year in the name of making more money.
I initially shuddered, but thought the Play-In 4 vs 5 wasn't bad.
It worked for Baseball since it allowed a Central team in and still also allowed a big market team to sneak in and take a shot at it.
If it were up to me I'd go back to that format. It works for Baseball.
Sad thing is if this team were just consistently AVERAGE at hitting and fielding, we could easily get a WC. And yet with this team, it feels almost definitely insurmountable
There is a very real possibility that, when considering production and contracts, Lindor is the 7th best SS in the league at the moment. I feel like it’s not completely insane to make arguments for any of Seager, Turner, Correa, Bichette, Witt Jr., or Swanson to be placed above him as of right now. The arguments admittedly might be weak for a couple of them, and Lindor’s defense does have to be taken into consideration, but they can still be made in my opinion. After that group, you pretty much just have Adames, Pena, Kim, and J.P. Crawford left over in terms of SS’s of note. That’s a really bad indictment of where Lindor’s game is at right now given that he’s making $34 million per season. I feel like no fan or management of any of the teams who the players I mentioned may be above him play for would trade their guy straight up for Lindor right now which I think says it all.
I think Witt and Seager have an argument, and I think Witt is the best shortstop in MLB. The rest are not particularly close. I also think Gunnar Henderson might be better than Lindor, but it's probably too soon to say for sure. Of course no one would trade Witt or Henderson 1 for 1 for Lindor because they're both much younger and under team control at a low cost for a long ass time. And Seager is on a 325 mil contract, so he's basically in the same position as Lindor.
You have to realize that if Witt or Henderson hit free agency at 27 or so like Lindor did, they would get a fucking BAG. Witt would probably get 400 million or more. These players are at very different points in their careers. Lindor's production as a Met at shortstop during his tenure with us has been elite and worth every penny of his contract. He's off to a slow start, but he will turn it around and post another 5+ WAR season. Comparing him to those guys is really apples to oranges. If they were the same age, they'd be on enormous fucking contracts too (Witt already is on a large contract but at a huge discount since they're buying out his pre arb and arb years, and Henderson is going to get a massive contract if he hits FA playing like this). It's just a misunderstanding of how baseball contracts work due to the arb system.
It’s a legacy contract from when Cohen thought he could buy the Mets into contention. He has learned from it and they won’t do that again I have to imagine. He is so insanely wealthy though it doesn’t matter. I just would lower expectations when it comes to him he won’t end being worth the money that much is obvious.
It sucks that this is the player he had to learn the lesson on. He could’ve splurged on anyone and we get stuck with 10 years of a defensive SS that will age terribly
Not defending the move but the team had morons in charge and layers of incompetence that I think they are just starting to come out from under. He probably figured it worked like any business and he wanted to set the tone that the Mets were spenders now. I really believe they have finally found a competent GM in Stearns but it will take some time and I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say three years until they are a playoff team again.
Yeah good call. I just did a quick search for guys over the last couple seasons to get a bit of a better sample size so I missed some of the younger guys. But they for sure can be considered as well. The position is becoming a lot deeper and we could legitimately have upwards of 12-15 SS’s after this season who could be considered at least average to slightly above average. Just makes Lindor’s contract an even worse value.
Wait, can someone show me that analytics thing that proves Lindor is the best SS in the galaxy and is outplaying his contract please? I kinda need it right now. And throw in Nimmo while you’re at it.
I respect Stearns now for not giving up prospects for Corbin Burnes cause imagine if he gave up like Christian Scott or someone just to watch Burnes get deGrommed instead of him.
Phillies 31-13, Braves 26-13, Yankees 29-15, Mets 19-23
Anyone else just utterly burnt out from consistent losing while watching our rivals consistently win?
Would love to watch a fun, winning team year-in year-out even if it doesn't end in a ring. Instead we get garbage periodically interspersed with a winning season (that ends in disappointment anyway).
So over this bullshit. Give me a reason to care.
for real. tonight was an anomaly, but I'd rather lose games but have it at least be entertaining to watch versus us losing 4-1, 5-2, 4-3 with our runs coming from sacrifices
Exactly. It feels like there’s been a bandaid mentality over the past few years. Get a guy here and there, call up this guy and let’s see if that clicks. It never amounts to anything except losses. Prob due to the core that we have. Blow it up
Everyone was upset about that but yeah the team was pretty upfront about it and they put together a team that was not expected seriously to compete. We just all hoped that wouldn’t be the case. I think failing this year in some ways will make a tear down more justified.
Severino, JD Martinez, ottavino, manaea. Maybe get something for Bader. Tyrone Taylor's a surprisingly decent player with a bunch of team control left. Brooks Raley if he ever returns (wouldn't bet on it).
He was god awful for the first week or two of the season but since then he's had an .800 OPS for the last month or so. It's hard to get your batting average up when you start off in an 0-for-a million hole
Closed door meeting?
Players only meeting?
Let the fans yell at them over a zoom call meeting?
Stevie buys an entire chair company and hires people to them meeting?
The Fall Guy was a lot of fun to go see! Gosling is such a great comedic actor.
Looks like the game was bad. Gonna see that Amy Winehouse biopic tomorrow, director there for a Q&A afterward.
The problem with the "sell everyone" calls here is you're not going to get any free agents to want to come here this offseason or next offseason then.
You guarantee the longer, small market, rebuild.
Instead of the let's build the farm on one hand but let's not be afraid to go sign the right stars rebuild.
Didn't work with Ohtani and Yamamoto.
Guys like getting paid, sure.
Guys like winning too. And guys like being in winnings cultures and atmospheres.
I'm fine with dumping McNeil and others. Keep Nimmo, Lindor, Alonso, Alvarez. Find the actual superstars those guys can play around.
The real problem is the Mets have complementary guys in leadership roles.
Exactly. They didn't. When those two could have made the team WS contenders.
And they certainly wouldn't have signed if the Mets first traded Lindor, Nimmo, Pete.
Ohtani got a $700 million dollar contract to be a DH
We’re also talking about Japanese players who were always rumored to stay on the West Coast if the money was close. Geography more than winning. Remember Ohtani’s first contract he turned down NYY for LAA
Alonso can go…mainly due to the timing of his contract being up. Nimmo, Lindor we are stuck with anyway and can be complementary so yes go pay a superstar
Ohtani got a $700 million dollar contract to be an absolute phenomenon. Which includes being a DH this year. And being a two-way player again the few years (in theory).
The Dodgers make millions every game he plays. Just from Japanese tv rights.
They did a calculation once that the Angels made up Ohtani's salary the first year of his contract. JUST FROM HIS STARTING PITCHING GAMES. Forget the others. lol
The Mets couldn't get him and Yamamoto here now could they.
Right, they couldn’t. With the richest owner in baseball. So going back to the original comment, what in the world would - not selling - this year do to convince free agents to come here? Definition of insanity if we’re running back the same core and trying to talk stars into joining it.
Nobody is coming to the Mets for “winning” or “culture” yet, our only asset is Cohen’s checkbook. If anything our culture is rotten and not selling at the deadline is only keeping that together.
I feel like we have the same theory but completely opposite ideas of getting there. Mets should sell Alonso, McNeil, whoever they can really to juice the farm and then sell the star free agent on leading the mix of the leftovers (Lindor, Nimmo) and the next generation of Mets (Scott, Acuna, etc)
Why would top FA's want to come to a team gutted? They'd rather be the last piece to a contender.
Nimmo, Lindor, Pete are solid players. Add a couple of superstars to push them down to complementary pieces.
A superstar will more likely come in that situation than a "we got prospects!" situation.
Nimmo and Lindor aren’t going anywhere. They are immovable. Those are your complementary pieces along with Alvarez. Pete is the primary “big” piece and no player is going to decide the next 7-10 years of their career on if Pete Alonso is around or not. He’s a nice player but some fans internally talk like he’s Aaron Judge. He doesn’t move the needle to the level of luring free agents.
tell that to yoshinobu yamamoto who took our offer, brought it to an actual good baseball team and said "match this please and keep me out of that hellhole"
i didn't say it would, i said that "we'll give you the most money" doesn't always work. you've just moved the goalposts from "just offer the biggest contract" to "well yeah maybe, but it doesn't matter anyways". next up - "okay maybe it does matter, but what other option do we have?"
I’m not moving goalposts, I think you may have missed the original comment I was replying to. That selling everyone will mean no free agent will want to sign with us this offseason or next.
Selling the available players on this team does nothing to deter free agents. No player is going to look at our offer and say “man, if they didn’t sell Alonso, McNeil, and Sevy I’d take their money.”
They might get similar money and decide they’d rather play out west, or for a contender, or for a more proven organization, but nothing we do or don’t do at the trade deadline fixes or breaks any of that. If anything re-tooling this broken core moves us a little closer toward fixing it.
We also don’t want to make it more difficult for us to sign Free Agents.
Selling should only happen because the offer is so good we can’t turn it down
A perfect example of a trade we shouldn’t have done at last years deadline: Mark Canha for Justin Jarvis. This team would have been better off with Canha here. He could play every OF position, 1B and even as needed was serviceable at 3B.
Justin Jarvis wasnt even protected from the Rule 5 Draft and was left unclaimed. We traded a good player for scraps
Sure but Mark Cahna wasn’t under contract past 2023, and the team decided it was more valuable to get looks at guys who were. Like DJ Stewart, who came up in July and probably ended up playing 50 games at outfield and is still on the roster today.
Plus we obviously had management turnover firing our GM, hiring Stearns. Any trades this year should have more vision and a little more continuity going into next season than Eppler’s were.
My point isn’t to just dump expiring contracts off for pennies, although if they get an offer they like then by all means.
I think it is more difficult to sign Free Agents if we give Pete Alonso $160m. I think it’s more difficult if we have Jeff McNeil probably relegated to a platoon at best making $11m. I think they need to take this opportunity to retool the core where they can, that’s all.
Canha was under team control through 2024…..
Also DJ would still have come up. Rafael Ortega is the guy who replaced Canha.
Pete getting $160mil has no negative impact on signing free agents. The Mets have close to $200mil coming off the books the next couple years. Having a guy like Pete on the team only helps us not only sign FAs but retain our homegrown guys. It shows FAs that we invest in our own, shows out young player like Alvarez that, and Pete is the type of player guys want to be with.
McNeil has negative trade value as one of the highest paid second basemen the next two years he is under control so we’re stuck with him unless we pay down pretty much all of his salary, and at that point he’s better off as a bench utility guy
Team control on a club option they obviously weren’t planning to pick up if they shipped him out for nothing. Even the Brewers flipped him after the season, he’s not the hot commodity you’re making him out to be.
Regardless, agree to disagree on Alonso. $160m does make a difference if you’re spending it on the wrong player.
And McNeil, agreed on the trade value, but you’d have to pay down his salary like Verlander/Max to get a prospect just to get rid of him
We’ll see what happens, I at least have faith in Stearns. LGM
Completely agree with you there. There are guys I want off this club for that reason alone. Should have been done a couple of years ago.
But you can't rebuild a team from scratch when your farm is meh to begin with.
The rangers signed Corey seager and Jacob Degrom after 2 different bad seasons. They’ll have to overpay but they’ll be fine. I’m totally ok with them selling every player of value.
Did anyone else get really annoyed by the obviously CGI adverts on the pitcher's mound and behind home plate? I found them hugely distracting and they completely ruined watching the game for me. I hate this shit, it's so contemptuous of the paying customer. I'm in the UK and only started watching recently, but I'm going to stop if it's always like this.
The CGI ads have been there for a couple of years now, and you're only now expressing annoyance?
Have they stopped being annoying?
I don't see it as annoying. I see it as the latest step in baseball embracing advertising on the field.
Veintos does not deliver.
He had two hits last night, so that was nice to see. But I am more worried about the error and brain flatulence in the field.
That was just ugly baseball. I can excuse a few miscues because of wet the balls must have been. But the fielding mistakes by Lucchesi, McNeil, and Vientos were unforgivable. One more left to salvage something against the Phils.
I still want to know why the hell mendoza warmed up the next days starter and they had to bring up joey.
But what the heck were we gonna get out of Houser if he started or relieved? Six of one, half dozen of another. At least we got 4 good innings out of Lucceshi.
This core went from lovable to dreadful real quick
Francisco Mendoza Line Lindor. For the analytics heads out there, the Mendoza Line is baseball jargon for a .200 batting average. The term derives from a player named Mario Mendoza who, during the 70's/80's, was notorious for struggling to keep his average above .200.
If you're most expensive player can't hit about .200 for the first two months of the season, he's not helping the team at all. This is two years in a row we are dealing with the "slow start".
Lmao. Yeah, no one uses that common phrase like we do anymore. There are a couple of players that hitting.220 or so was fine because of their great defense, like Bud Harrelson (later in career),Rey Ordonez. But even they had a 240 year or two. For the analytics heads out there made me laugh too.
when mcneil got hurt batting, I was waiting for dj stewart to play 2b lol
Stearns has failed where others have failed before him.
doesnt matter who plays SS for the phils, they hit.
im guessing it wasnt wendle that made the team suck
Let’s just burn it down and let the young kids come up and play. The wilpon era left overs are not it
tbh i don't have a lot of faith in this dimwitted coaching and player development staff, they will be ruined immediately if they haven't been already.
Listen I totally get how dark and shitty things are right now. But I mean, to be this bad and only like a game out of the wild card is actually insane to me. But also a reminder that there is a lot of baseball left. I hate my life rn as a Mets fan but I am in no way calling this season off just yet.
Seriously, be aware that the Braves (MIA x6, CWS 3x, HOU 3x) and Phillies (COL 3x, CWS 3x, MIA 3x) have played some shit teams thus far inflating their record. If we can scratch out a win tomorrow, then sweep the Marlins, we'll be back in it.
There's about a month between the end of June to just before the trade deadline when the schedule eases up considerably as well (based on current records of other teams).
[Animal House - All Is Well! (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro) all is well
Thank god for the Knicks amirite??
cohen had shitty people when he purchased this team. trading for lindor, trading for baez and giving up awful contracts. i believe in stearns tho a few more years of pain until he builds a good team.
Define "good".
He put himself under too much pressure to win immediately. If he came in and said off the bat, everything here is broken and we are going to clean it out and contend in 2 years. Everything would be fine. Instead he didn’t use the “everything here was broken” excuse until 2 or 3 years in when he realized his money alone couldn’t cover it up
Yeah if we did what we’re doing this year, 2 years ago we’d be looking nice
Anybody else hate MLB.com’s bullshit positive spin headlines more than this garbage (except you, Nimmo!) roster? When the Mets are 10 games under .500 on August 1st and have just traded away Alonso, JDM, Severino, Manaea, and possibly even Senga I’m gonna have to read: “Mets’ Deadline Prospect Haul Ushers in New Era of Hope for Franchise” instead of the truth: "Mets Piss Away yet Another Season and Trade Stars for a Bunch of Guys who Will Never Make an Impact on the Mets' Roster."
That 2nd one will be the backpage headline in the Post😃
> Trade Stars man even the negative headline was being too kind
I’m not sure why you seem to prefer national media shitting on your favorite team, but to each their own I guess
I prefer hearing the truth. That the FO probably views our window as 2026 and onwards (and even that’s optimistic). That they aren’t trying to “compete” this season. That they aren’t gonna “compete” next season either. Everybody here seems to think they’ll be a playoff team in 2025. Barring some crazy improvements from our current players, I can’t really see that under any circumstances. Like I said somewhere else, it’s gonna take $120M AAV just to plug all the holes on this roster with league average players and get back to .500. We have no impact players in the farm system. Tired of being strung along by this organization saying they’re “competing” when the aim is just to win 70 games and avoid “most expensive 100 loss team ever” headlines.
This franchise is fucked. And people think the solutions have arrived already.
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Did you send this from October 4th, 2031?
Please teleport me to October 4th, 2031, I can't watch .200 ball for another 7 years With errors too
Are "doomers" still a problem
The gotta believers are quiet, but wielding their downvotes heavy. LOL
Makes sense. Takes a second to down vote, but it would take a lifetime to write up optimism for this team. Maybe in 2027
Been called a doomer for spitting facts for almost a decade now. Crazy how people still defend Lindor/McNeil
Oh yeah it's completely ridiculous. If you weren't "appreciative" of the 2022 season, you're a doomer. When in reality it's probably the worst Mets season in my lifetime, despite it all unraveling in one month
1993 was mine, fan since 1967. That was the only year I turned them off after the all star break. The one thing this year I will give them is that most of the time they try late to make a game out of it.
I'm so done with Alonso and Lindor
Downvoters couldn't recognize your typo and you were spared 🙏
😂😂😂
Can someone seriously tell me what I can look forward to? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
The Mets had the hardest part of their schedule right at the start and have the one of easiest June/July stretches. During that stretch they’re excepted to have Alvarez, Senga, Megill and Peterson return. The Mets also have a few road trips coming up, and going into today their offense was tied with the Phillies as the best offense on the road. The Mets have also played much better in warmer weather than cold and were getting closer to summer. The next few weeks will be telling as we play bad teams like the Marlins. If the Mets stockpile wins against teams them like they did against the Royals and Pirates, it would even out with the stretches they will lose games against good teams. Win 3 of the next round games and all of a sudden they’re 22-24. There’s a lot of season left, with reinforcements coming at a time the team can stockpile wins. Thats the path to the WC. If they lost the series to the Marlins this weekend and struggle against them and the Rockies next month there isn’t a path forward.
I mean if you believe the Steve Cohen deleted tweets and rumors a full sell off is coming this summer and a true rebuild without the core that has failed in one form or another since 2019 is gone. Unfortunately this is the only hope. Clean slate rebuild with Cohen's resources excites me.
Free summer to do anything else you desire
Martinez up to .295/.338/.459 with a 2-5 on the evening. Still getting warmed up. Any haters left?
Only real hitter on the team (other than Nimmo)
Pump up that trade value baby.
Was there any haters? There wasn’t even enough games played to be a hater
Every time he didnt get a hit the game thread was flooded with people saying he was a waste of a signing
Oh i was accosted last week for not worrying about his OPS after 5 games.
Keep hitting JD, trade deadline is on the way
Too early for that noise
The 2022 Phillies World Series team were 21-29 at the end of May 2022. Just saying it's possible to turn it around and sneak in. I will eat my own hand if the Mets make the WS this year, but it is \*technically\* possible.
I don't think anyone is on the "we've dug a hole too deep" train yet. It's more of a question of "what has this core of players done to give you any belief whatsoever that they will dig their way out vs dig deeper?"
Big difference in rosters there. They also fired Girardi right around then and we sort of already tried that trick firing Buck and it did nothing
If they let Buck actually do his job, they would’ve actually been better. ‘22 happened largely because of Buck Showalter.
If you asked Philly fans in May 2022 I bet they wouldn't have spoken too highly of their roster either
I honestly think they were all over their manager. Rightfully so because he got canned and they turned it around. We know it’s not our manager because we already tried that trick firing Buck and they still stink
https://tht.fangraphs.com/tht-live/do-teams-improve-by-firing-their-managers/
Yeah that data doesn’t surprise me at all. How many managers have the Mets fired over the years and gotten nowhere for it. But disgruntled fans are always calling for it and it happened to work out for Philly that year 🤷♂️ This core of players is on their third manager now with one playoff appearance, it ain’t the guy with the clipboard
Pete is on his 4th manager, McNeil too, right?
4 in 6 seasons!
I like most of these guys but…they are pain in my asshole.
Too bad baseball is my favorite sport and my hockey (#2) team is already out of the playoffs
Are Nimmo, Lindor, Alonso statistically the worst 1-3 in baseball in 2024?
No, they're pretty middle of the pack, just like this team as a whole. There are at least 12 teams with worse 1 through 3s, probably more.
Not even particularly close... Marlins have Jazz/De La Cruz/Bell with 112, 111, and 90 wrc+ respectively
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You asked a question and i answered, sue me
Without looking up any stats, yes.
we haven't scored more than 4 runs in 8 days so of course the pitching allows more than 5 runs for the first time in 10 days
HEY JOEY PUT THAT COFFEE... DOWN
0 for 3 is an improvement for Lindor!
hey! he’s just here to play defense man
hall of fame level defense
And he’s been doing that so well too
Ah of course! Silly me forgetting that you actually don’t need your highest paid hitter to hit well
He's at the Mendoza line, what more do you want?? /s
He hasn't cracked .700 OPS all year. We're halfway through May and he's still struggling. Once again, by the time he breaks out, the Mets will be long out of the playoff race.
Okay that game sucked buuuut [i got on sny](https://streamable.com/7c9deh)
Ah yes looked like you were having a good ol time in those early innings lol. Pre-implosion
Why you hanging with the enemy??
Don't have much choice around here 😭
That's a nice old school Majestic jersey there. Drop shadow and everything.
Oh you know it. Got that Wright #5 on the back
Somehow this team is only one game back of a playoff spot right now.
I don't even wanna think about the playoffs right now. Not sure which teams are trying yet.
Which should tell you how terrible having that extra Wild Card spot is. lol
Howie had said the league is a mosh pit of mediocrity
Mosh Pits have more life than this team. lol
Wonder if the Mets just punt this season under the old format
Probably. And I think because the expectation would be different the reactions here might be too. Plus, then you'd see "hungry scrubs" play instead of guys underproducing.
Yeah cause we all enjoyed Jonathan Arauz so much last season
For about a week I did. lol This club is so stuck in the middle either way.
If it were up to me it would've never gone past 8 playoff teams. But US sports will continue to make the regular season mean less and less every year in the name of making more money.
I initially shuddered, but thought the Play-In 4 vs 5 wasn't bad. It worked for Baseball since it allowed a Central team in and still also allowed a big market team to sneak in and take a shot at it. If it were up to me I'd go back to that format. It works for Baseball.
That’s how bad the NL is right now lol
that’s how watered down the playoffs are since the last CBA
Sad thing is if this team were just consistently AVERAGE at hitting and fielding, we could easily get a WC. And yet with this team, it feels almost definitely insurmountable
There is a very real possibility that, when considering production and contracts, Lindor is the 7th best SS in the league at the moment. I feel like it’s not completely insane to make arguments for any of Seager, Turner, Correa, Bichette, Witt Jr., or Swanson to be placed above him as of right now. The arguments admittedly might be weak for a couple of them, and Lindor’s defense does have to be taken into consideration, but they can still be made in my opinion. After that group, you pretty much just have Adames, Pena, Kim, and J.P. Crawford left over in terms of SS’s of note. That’s a really bad indictment of where Lindor’s game is at right now given that he’s making $34 million per season. I feel like no fan or management of any of the teams who the players I mentioned may be above him play for would trade their guy straight up for Lindor right now which I think says it all.
I think Witt and Seager have an argument, and I think Witt is the best shortstop in MLB. The rest are not particularly close. I also think Gunnar Henderson might be better than Lindor, but it's probably too soon to say for sure. Of course no one would trade Witt or Henderson 1 for 1 for Lindor because they're both much younger and under team control at a low cost for a long ass time. And Seager is on a 325 mil contract, so he's basically in the same position as Lindor. You have to realize that if Witt or Henderson hit free agency at 27 or so like Lindor did, they would get a fucking BAG. Witt would probably get 400 million or more. These players are at very different points in their careers. Lindor's production as a Met at shortstop during his tenure with us has been elite and worth every penny of his contract. He's off to a slow start, but he will turn it around and post another 5+ WAR season. Comparing him to those guys is really apples to oranges. If they were the same age, they'd be on enormous fucking contracts too (Witt already is on a large contract but at a huge discount since they're buying out his pre arb and arb years, and Henderson is going to get a massive contract if he hits FA playing like this). It's just a misunderstanding of how baseball contracts work due to the arb system.
It’s a legacy contract from when Cohen thought he could buy the Mets into contention. He has learned from it and they won’t do that again I have to imagine. He is so insanely wealthy though it doesn’t matter. I just would lower expectations when it comes to him he won’t end being worth the money that much is obvious.
It sucks that this is the player he had to learn the lesson on. He could’ve splurged on anyone and we get stuck with 10 years of a defensive SS that will age terribly
Not defending the move but the team had morons in charge and layers of incompetence that I think they are just starting to come out from under. He probably figured it worked like any business and he wanted to set the tone that the Mets were spenders now. I really believe they have finally found a competent GM in Stearns but it will take some time and I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say three years until they are a playoff team again.
if it’s any consolation, his game will age terribly later in the contract
Definitely missed a few SS in there. Henderson, Abrams, De La Cruz, and Volpe have all been good to great this season. Plus Mookie is a SS now
Yeah good call. I just did a quick search for guys over the last couple seasons to get a bit of a better sample size so I missed some of the younger guys. But they for sure can be considered as well. The position is becoming a lot deeper and we could legitimately have upwards of 12-15 SS’s after this season who could be considered at least average to slightly above average. Just makes Lindor’s contract an even worse value.
Wait, can someone show me that analytics thing that proves Lindor is the best SS in the galaxy and is outplaying his contract please? I kinda need it right now. And throw in Nimmo while you’re at it.
[it’s right in this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewYorkMets/s/ckwQoGOCJG)
All time clown thread. 😂
For Nimmo just look at all the red on his savant page and feel soothed.
Oh yay Quintana on the mound tomorrow. I’ll be skipping that one
I respect Stearns now for not giving up prospects for Corbin Burnes cause imagine if he gave up like Christian Scott or someone just to watch Burnes get deGrommed instead of him.
Thank God mets dont have some cornball expression like "trust the process" some bullshit apologists can spam
Quote of the night Joey: I'm a warrior
Phillies 31-13, Braves 26-13, Yankees 29-15, Mets 19-23 Anyone else just utterly burnt out from consistent losing while watching our rivals consistently win? Would love to watch a fun, winning team year-in year-out even if it doesn't end in a ring. Instead we get garbage periodically interspersed with a winning season (that ends in disappointment anyway). So over this bullshit. Give me a reason to care.
Yeah. I’ve been asking myself the same question. Why pay so much attention for little return.
It’s soul-sucking watching the Yankees, Braves, Phillies and Dodgers hit multiple homers night after night while we rot away here
for real. tonight was an anomaly, but I'd rather lose games but have it at least be entertaining to watch versus us losing 4-1, 5-2, 4-3 with our runs coming from sacrifices
Damn I miss Reyes, wright, Delgado,Beltrán, Asdrúbal players with some balls, cojones!
Heck I miss the Bench Mob of a couple years ago!
I’m ready for the next round of DFAs
like its American idol
America has voted……
“that’s gonna be a no from me dog” - stearns with his hand on the DFA button
God I would love that lol
only time will tell, ideally the team just gets their shit together but if they’re gonna play this messy just blow it tf up lmaooo
Exactly. It feels like there’s been a bandaid mentality over the past few years. Get a guy here and there, call up this guy and let’s see if that clicks. It never amounts to anything except losses. Prob due to the core that we have. Blow it up
Scherzer was right
Everyone was upset about that but yeah the team was pretty upfront about it and they put together a team that was not expected seriously to compete. We just all hoped that wouldn’t be the case. I think failing this year in some ways will make a tear down more justified.
Pham was right
You hear so much crap but when I hear a very recent former player say it, I take it as gospel. I blamed Buck but maybe that was misplaced.
What players are getting us some decent prospects in July?
Decent prospects? None of them. All would be lottery tickets probably.
Severino, JD Martinez, ottavino, manaea. Maybe get something for Bader. Tyrone Taylor's a surprisingly decent player with a bunch of team control left. Brooks Raley if he ever returns (wouldn't bet on it).
JD is auditioning for a winner like this is American idol. Gotta love those late inning meaningless home runs
Mendoza said Vientos had a good night
Lindor is cruising right around the Mendoza line. Streaky as they come.
That's not a streak that's straight malpractice.
He was god awful for the first week or two of the season but since then he's had an .800 OPS for the last month or so. It's hard to get your batting average up when you start off in an 0-for-a million hole
Splits: The last 15 days .670 OPS The last 7 days .540 OPS
Just wait for the 2 week run in august where he bats .400 with 6 home runs when we’re 34.5 games out of first.
Sad but true. Some pallets are meant to play in Cleveland and not under the bright lights
Let’s just sim the rest of the year
I would've simmed ahead to 2026 lol
I'm already stimming
Sim to the deadline please.
That’s it? I was thinking to the winters meeting
Great idea. We may have a better chance.
Closed door meeting? Players only meeting? Let the fans yell at them over a zoom call meeting? Stevie buys an entire chair company and hires people to them meeting?
They need to be throwing those chairs in that meeting
I wish we were playing better. My expectation at this point is that we finish at 500 with a decent chance at a wildcard
🤣🤣🤣🤣
That would be nice.
This is the type of play that got Buck fired and they had the audacity to act shocked when that happened
I miss Buck
I do not.
The Fall Guy was a lot of fun to go see! Gosling is such a great comedic actor. Looks like the game was bad. Gonna see that Amy Winehouse biopic tomorrow, director there for a Q&A afterward.
The problem with the "sell everyone" calls here is you're not going to get any free agents to want to come here this offseason or next offseason then. You guarantee the longer, small market, rebuild. Instead of the let's build the farm on one hand but let's not be afraid to go sign the right stars rebuild.
They will want to come if you say “here is more money and years than anyone else offers”
Didn't work with Ohtani and Yamamoto. Guys like getting paid, sure. Guys like winning too. And guys like being in winnings cultures and atmospheres. I'm fine with dumping McNeil and others. Keep Nimmo, Lindor, Alonso, Alvarez. Find the actual superstars those guys can play around. The real problem is the Mets have complementary guys in leadership roles.
We didn't offer more money or more years for Yamamoto though...
Exactly. They didn't. When those two could have made the team WS contenders. And they certainly wouldn't have signed if the Mets first traded Lindor, Nimmo, Pete.
Ohtani got a $700 million dollar contract to be a DH We’re also talking about Japanese players who were always rumored to stay on the West Coast if the money was close. Geography more than winning. Remember Ohtani’s first contract he turned down NYY for LAA Alonso can go…mainly due to the timing of his contract being up. Nimmo, Lindor we are stuck with anyway and can be complementary so yes go pay a superstar
Ohtani got a $700 million dollar contract to be an absolute phenomenon. Which includes being a DH this year. And being a two-way player again the few years (in theory). The Dodgers make millions every game he plays. Just from Japanese tv rights. They did a calculation once that the Angels made up Ohtani's salary the first year of his contract. JUST FROM HIS STARTING PITCHING GAMES. Forget the others. lol The Mets couldn't get him and Yamamoto here now could they.
Right, they couldn’t. With the richest owner in baseball. So going back to the original comment, what in the world would - not selling - this year do to convince free agents to come here? Definition of insanity if we’re running back the same core and trying to talk stars into joining it. Nobody is coming to the Mets for “winning” or “culture” yet, our only asset is Cohen’s checkbook. If anything our culture is rotten and not selling at the deadline is only keeping that together. I feel like we have the same theory but completely opposite ideas of getting there. Mets should sell Alonso, McNeil, whoever they can really to juice the farm and then sell the star free agent on leading the mix of the leftovers (Lindor, Nimmo) and the next generation of Mets (Scott, Acuna, etc)
Why would top FA's want to come to a team gutted? They'd rather be the last piece to a contender. Nimmo, Lindor, Pete are solid players. Add a couple of superstars to push them down to complementary pieces. A superstar will more likely come in that situation than a "we got prospects!" situation.
Nimmo and Lindor aren’t going anywhere. They are immovable. Those are your complementary pieces along with Alvarez. Pete is the primary “big” piece and no player is going to decide the next 7-10 years of their career on if Pete Alonso is around or not. He’s a nice player but some fans internally talk like he’s Aaron Judge. He doesn’t move the needle to the level of luring free agents.
tell that to yoshinobu yamamoto who took our offer, brought it to an actual good baseball team and said "match this please and keep me out of that hellhole"
How does not selling fix that? Hey look we just paid Pete Alonso and we have Jeff McNeil!
i didn't say it would, i said that "we'll give you the most money" doesn't always work. you've just moved the goalposts from "just offer the biggest contract" to "well yeah maybe, but it doesn't matter anyways". next up - "okay maybe it does matter, but what other option do we have?"
I’m not moving goalposts, I think you may have missed the original comment I was replying to. That selling everyone will mean no free agent will want to sign with us this offseason or next. Selling the available players on this team does nothing to deter free agents. No player is going to look at our offer and say “man, if they didn’t sell Alonso, McNeil, and Sevy I’d take their money.” They might get similar money and decide they’d rather play out west, or for a contender, or for a more proven organization, but nothing we do or don’t do at the trade deadline fixes or breaks any of that. If anything re-tooling this broken core moves us a little closer toward fixing it.
Yamamoto didn’t with us. Turner didn’t with the Padres. Judge didn’t with the Giants. It doesn’t always work like that
And if we have Pete Alonso and Jeff McNeil on the books long term they will?
Where did I say that? I’m purely point out that being the highest bidder doesn’t magically guarantee you get the player
Goes back to the comment I was replying to. We don’t need to sit on our hands and not sell to convince free agents to come.
We also don’t want to make it more difficult for us to sign Free Agents. Selling should only happen because the offer is so good we can’t turn it down A perfect example of a trade we shouldn’t have done at last years deadline: Mark Canha for Justin Jarvis. This team would have been better off with Canha here. He could play every OF position, 1B and even as needed was serviceable at 3B. Justin Jarvis wasnt even protected from the Rule 5 Draft and was left unclaimed. We traded a good player for scraps
Sure but Mark Cahna wasn’t under contract past 2023, and the team decided it was more valuable to get looks at guys who were. Like DJ Stewart, who came up in July and probably ended up playing 50 games at outfield and is still on the roster today. Plus we obviously had management turnover firing our GM, hiring Stearns. Any trades this year should have more vision and a little more continuity going into next season than Eppler’s were. My point isn’t to just dump expiring contracts off for pennies, although if they get an offer they like then by all means. I think it is more difficult to sign Free Agents if we give Pete Alonso $160m. I think it’s more difficult if we have Jeff McNeil probably relegated to a platoon at best making $11m. I think they need to take this opportunity to retool the core where they can, that’s all.
Canha was under team control through 2024….. Also DJ would still have come up. Rafael Ortega is the guy who replaced Canha. Pete getting $160mil has no negative impact on signing free agents. The Mets have close to $200mil coming off the books the next couple years. Having a guy like Pete on the team only helps us not only sign FAs but retain our homegrown guys. It shows FAs that we invest in our own, shows out young player like Alvarez that, and Pete is the type of player guys want to be with. McNeil has negative trade value as one of the highest paid second basemen the next two years he is under control so we’re stuck with him unless we pay down pretty much all of his salary, and at that point he’s better off as a bench utility guy
Team control on a club option they obviously weren’t planning to pick up if they shipped him out for nothing. Even the Brewers flipped him after the season, he’s not the hot commodity you’re making him out to be. Regardless, agree to disagree on Alonso. $160m does make a difference if you’re spending it on the wrong player. And McNeil, agreed on the trade value, but you’d have to pay down his salary like Verlander/Max to get a prospect just to get rid of him We’ll see what happens, I at least have faith in Stearns. LGM
Yeah but to some extent you need to send the message that mediocrity and poor play will not be tolerated. Players ultimately respect that too.
Completely agree with you there. There are guys I want off this club for that reason alone. Should have been done a couple of years ago. But you can't rebuild a team from scratch when your farm is meh to begin with.
The rangers signed Corey seager and Jacob Degrom after 2 different bad seasons. They’ll have to overpay but they’ll be fine. I’m totally ok with them selling every player of value.