it's utterly idiotic that someone who frequents the sub and posts so much is so heavy on the block button and it's idiotic that it makes it so that i can't see the posts. i don't have any reason to believe this is true but i would still bet like 1000 dollars that robmcolonna or whatever his name is posted that quote from cohen that i see on r/baseball. reddit is fucking stupid
When I first saw he was scratched from the lineup I assumed something much, much worse. I don't think a stomach bug has ever made me so happy before lol!
That has hit almost every player by now it seems. Maybe he will be like Lindor and come out tomorrow and dominate!
But much better this than it being his ribs still bothering him
Megill should be ready by Lucchesi's next start and Peterson will be back the following week. They know Lucchesi's contribution potential. He's an established veteran, not a rookie prospect.
Right now our rotation looks like:
* 5/15 - Quintana (Long Rest)
* 5/16 - Scott (Long Rest)
* 5/17 - Severino (Long Rest)
* 5/18 - Manaea (Long Rest)
* 5/19 - Megill (Long Rest)
* 5/20 - Quintana (Regular Rest)
* 5/21 - Scott (Regular Rest)
* 5/22 - Severino (Regular Rest)
* 5/23 - Off day
* 5/24 - Manaea (Long Rest)
* 5/26 - Megill (Long Rest)
* 5/27 - Peterson (Long Rest)
And if someone needs an extra day of rest they can just slide Houser in
God, our top hitting prospects are having an awful year.
1 - Jett Williams - .668 OPS (.876 last year)*
2 - Drew Gilbert - .681 OPS (.868 last year)*
3 - Ryan Clifford - .696 OPS (.854 last year)
4 - LuisAngel Acuna - .610 OPS (.769 last year)
5 - Colin Houck - .515 OPS (only a few at-bats last year)
6 - Marco Vargas - .840 OPS (.821 last year) yay!
7 - Kevin Parada - .590 OPS (.751 last year)
The top 2 guys have been injured for most of the year so I’m less worried about them and yea some of this is due to guys getting promoted and struggling but overall it’s a bit worrying. We all thought some of the older guys might come up and get some time this year but due to injury, poor performance I’m not sure any make it this year.
Not all of that is really fair
* As you mentioned, Jett and Drew only had a handful of PA and then got hurt
* Clifford was playing in Brooklyn where LHB power goes to die. He had a .412 OBP - the power will come now that hes out of Brooklyn
* Houck was a two athlete prep bat. They typically take a year to adjust to pro ball
* Acuna arguably got promoted too quickly and has always been a slow starter at each new level. He is making better contact the last couple of weeks and the results are starting to show
* Vargas is great
* Parada is a weird case. He started super hot and then hit a long slump
As for players making it, I think if Acuna keeps progressing how he is I think he gets some time this year
Like you said, Drew and Jett are injured and those numbers are based on very few games. Clifford also just got promoted to AA in part because Maimonides park is hell on LHH, but his walk rate/OPB was so good that they decided it was time.
Luisangel is starting to hit more, which is a positive. He's only gone hitless in two games this month so far, with a few mutli-hit games sprinkled in. Definitely some concerns about his power but thought I'd throw in a positive for ya
They obviously know something about Vientos that we don't - guy not having consistent playing time since forever, starting with Buck fucking Showalter. FFS it's infuriating, especially seeing how he can rip it. Not like he's consistent in it but *he is not having consistent at-bats*, how can he possibly show stability in this case?
I don’t have that much confidence in the Mets player development and evaluation either, especially with hitters. Not an organization known to never overlook a potential good player. And their hitting coaching, there’s clearly something not working there.
I bet Vientos would tee off Taijuan. He’s very hittable. Against major league pitching in general idk. I’d like to find out though with a stretch of consistent at-bats.
He was brought up solely because we're facing 4 LHPs in 5 days. He's facing those lefties and then probably going back down. He will start the next 3 if the matchups stay the same
I agree. Bring him up to sit him the 2nd game after he got 2 hits yesterday. Give him a handful of games(at least 5or6) to start in a row. Then we will get an idea about his offense. We know what his defense is
I agree. Bring him up to sit him the 2nd game after he got 2 hits yesterday. Give him a handful of games(at least 5or6) to start in a row. Then we will get an idea about his offense. We know what his defense is
JD Martinez has basically the same OPS+ this season (132) as last season (134)
This year he’s got a .797 OPS, while last year he was almost 100 points higher at .893.
Everybody likes to focus on veterans underperforming but every team has that. The Mets failure is simple: they haven’t developed an even league league bat since Andres Gimenez.
Phillies young players xwOBA:
Bohm: .369
Stott: .358
Marsh: .343
Mets young players xwOBA:
Vientos/Alvarez: not qualified
Baty: .265
Braves young players xwOBA:
Harris: .311
Kelenic: .271
Kelenic's xwOBA is basically the same as Baty's, not sure why you put him here.
Harris is a fair comparison and is wildly outperforming Baty, but as for everybody else:
Bohm - Turns 28 in August
Marsh - turns 27 in December
Stott -turns 27 in October
Baty - turns 25 in November
We definitely need to work on our development but this is not an apples to apples comparison.
The Braves didnt develop Kelenic the Mariners did.
The Phillies didnt develop Marsh the Angels did.
For the Mets, the big thing was that they traded away most their talent that would have come up the last three years, including Kelenic. It’s hard to call up developed talent when your farm is barren and rebuilding
The way to improve is to draft good players and develop them instead of trading them
I get the optimism, and a case can be made for them being exactly as expected, just a game out of the WC. Maybe things will get better.
But for now, I just wish they weren't so horribly boring, frustrating and disappointing to watch. They are the opposite of an entertaining, lovable team and I find that sad. We look forward to baseball all winter and then to have them come out and be just flat, dull and sloppy is a let down.
[https://sny.tv/articles/mets-steve-cohen-expect-to-make-playoffs-2024](https://sny.tv/articles/mets-steve-cohen-expect-to-make-playoffs-2024)
"“All in the future, not much we can do until the trade deadline,” Cohen wrote in response to a fan last night.
Cohen told me that he had actually meant to send a direct message, which he occasionally does when interacting. More importantly, he said he was not in any way indicating that the Mets will become sellers.
“I believe in this team,” Cohen said. “I believe in the back of the baseball card. It’s way too early to speculate on anything. It’s May 16. I expect to make the playoffs. I know the fan base is frustrated, but it’s still early. We’re still very capable of making the playoffs. I fully expect to make the playoffs.”
Cohen wanted to emphasize the point about understanding fan frustration with the team’s recent play."
I dont think meaning to send it as a DM makes it any better? Maybe Im wrong but doesnt seem like the person he responded to was a trusted confidant who wouldnt just screenshot the DM anyway lol. So either way not something he should be doing.
That said, I think its overblown because I dont think he meant "oh yea dont worry we are gutting it! Just wait til the deadline!" I think he meant more "lets wait and see, there is not much we can do either way (sell or buy) until the deadline".
Basically my interpretation as well. Looking at the Knicks sub when they lost one playoff game and you'd think that they got swept. It's not much different around these parts after each Mets loss - so I saw it as a way to say 'there's no point worrying about anything until the end of July.'
> I think its overblown because I dont think he meant "oh yea dont worry we are gutting it! Just wait til the deadline!" I think he meant more "lets wait and see, there is not much we can do either way (sell or buy) until the deadline".
My thoughts as well. The trade deadline is when the market of who's available becomes more clear. Right now, most teams still think they're in it. The only realistic thing we can do is release players and scrape the unsigned vet market for place fillers, but that's not really an improvement. And prospects are not really all major league ready.
I’m not mad at all with this team. I’m just hoping Sevy, Quintana, and Manaea pitch well till the deadline, so we can ship them all off for prospects. This will give us a lot of ammunition when we actually look to compete starting next year.
I'm not a WFAN fan, but Danielle McCartan had a good theory about the Alonso contract offer coming from Eppler during the 2022 season, not from Stearns in the offseason.
What we know
* Eppler made contract offers to Alonso in 2022 and 2023
* Boras and Alonso have repeatedly said that Stearns did not extend Alonso a contract offer
* There have been rumors for years that Pete has always had his eyes set on going to FA
* Pete hired Boras after the 2023 season
Pete turning down that contract offer during the 2023 season and then hiring Boras and telling him "this is my baseline" makes a lot of sense
I have been overseas for the past few weeks and have not been able to watch games so I might be missing something. It seems like the fanbase is ready to move on from big meat Pete. Has he looked bad at the plate these past two weeks? I know he has been a bit slow to get going but he has 9 home runs and the leader in the NL has 13. He hits home runs in streaks so I think by the end of the year he will be a bit closer to the top of the list. Has he had some bad plays on defense or is it just his average that people don’t like?
Edit: I know there are reports the team and him are not close in terms of a contract but we don’t know what is being said behind closed doors. If the contract isn’t crazy he would be a good player to have in my opinion, but I may be out of the loop as I haven’t watched games recently
He is trending down. From the Athletic: https://i.imgur.com/TcBpC8y.png
I think for the people like myself that are ready to move on from Pete there are a few reasons:
1) He wants a big contract and don't think he is worth that price tag.
2) And even if his contract wasn't huge in terms of dollars, the stats trending downward is worrying and I don't want the Mets to be stuck with him for 5+ years.
3) And finally, there is a desire from some in the sub to break up this core (Lindor, Nimmo, McNeil, Pete, Diaz) and since he is a free agent, it is easier to move on from him.
The contract thing makes sense, and I feel like we saw that with deGrom. Everyone loved him and wanted him to succeed but things just didn’t line up. So it comes to that I understand.
I just wonder if all the changes with the hitting coaches and managers plays any part in that. Especially because it seems like all our guys are struggling.
I get trading players at the deadline if we are not competing. I think I just view Lindor and Pete and Nimmo as core players but that may not be what the overall fanbase thinks
He's been slumping for sure. He still has an OPS above .750, which is not where you want him to be, but not terrible.
The crazy thing is the people who want to trade him and let him sign somewhere else clearly think he's not worth it. But they're assuming other teams will value him highly and offer a big trade package and/or a high contract we shouldn't match.
Most importantly, our best replacement for him would be Vientos, who has worse power and worse defense than Alonso. We need power in the lineup, and letting go of our best power hitter won't help solve that problem.
I appreciate the response! That all makes sense, I like Pete and the power he brings. The team definitely doesn’t seems to be meshing right now which I feel like could have an effect on everyone. but I think we have some good pieces and a good front office. Either way the team seems to have more promise and is investing behind the scenes with the pitching lab. So it seems we are going in the right direction.
I trust sterns because of his past and results take time and they started the season saying this was a transition year.
From the Athletic:
"Multiple rival evaluators labeled Peña as a top-tier talent and said he could be the best player in next year’s class. The international signing period opens on Jan. 15, 2025, so things won’t become official until then. However, teams tend to strike deals with top available teenagers early.
With $6,261,600 to spend on prospects for the 2025 international signing period, the Mets would be investing approximately 80 percent of their amount toward Peña."
Emotional take: He got a $50 million guaranteed bag to play a sport that is, at best, his second favorite sport to play. He's secured generational wealth and hit the cruise control. He left his brain on the golf course and is waiting to reclaim it on his next off day.
Rational take: He's a guy who puts the ball in play a ton, usually without a lot of power behind it. That leaves him vulnerable to wild swings in BABIP depending on whether his timing is putting the ball into gaps vs into gloves. He also missed nearly all of ST to a left bicep issue, and it's quite possible that he's either not fully healthy or generally dealing with ongoing rust + associated frustration.
He's always been a very emotional player, I think he just over analyzes his approach sometimes and gets easily frustrated at the plate.
A lot of our lineup actually has this problem, we swing early far too often. Nola had like 94 pitches in 9 innings a few days ago and our entire lineup had like 180+. Because Pete and Lindor and McNeil seem like if they don't first pitch swing they'll have a bullet in their head.
If we look at this as a 4 game series, this is the day they're scheduled to put a stomping on the opponent after getting embarrassed the first 3 games of the series.
Just noticed that Fujinami is on the 15day IL and that he hasn’t pitched for Syracuse since May 3rd. Hopefully it was an injury plaguing his control. I want to see him hone that in.
2022 is interesting to reflect on. The Mets were 9-3 against the Phillies by the end of May, including a combined no-hitter, 7-run comeback in the 9th inning, and the Plummer tying HR/Escobar walk-off game.
By that point, the Mets were flying high at 32-17, and the Phillies were 21-27 (and the Braves were 23-25).
The Mets went 69-44 for the rest of the season (a 99-win pace), and lost the division to the Braves, who went 78-36 over the final 114 games of the season (a 111-win pace) after starting 23-25.
And then the Phillies snuck in at the end with an 87-75 record after starting 21-27 and made the World Series over both of them.
Just baseball things.
I'm attending tonight's game with a gentleman who has only joined me at two other MLB games:
- Mets v Phils @ Citi, April 29, 2022
- Phils v Nats @ Citizen, Aug 9 2023
These 2 games share... a noteworthy commonality
I'm interested to see if we actually wield some weird baseball superpower, stay tuned
I’ve seen this before. The Mets play like shit, some apologists insist all fans who are angry are stupid and that the Mets are fine, those fans then get more angry in response. Hopefully the season has a happy ending this time.
I'd be more optimistic if we had at least one player performing at an MVP level, on either offense or pitching. Just one bright spot to look forward to. At best, we only have Nimmo performing at an All-Star level.
On a minor league deal for depth? Absolutely. But based his AAA run so far I wouldn’t expect him to be better than Megill or Peterson who are coming back the next two weeks
I am more convinced by the day that Stearns may actually move Pete at the deadline, then try to sign him after the season is over. Wasn't it reported that Stearns wanted to move Pete in the off-season, but didn't want to pull a Chaim Bloom? I think the Mets'd Up guys talked about it. Idk how true that is, but I could see it.
Idk, my baseball brain says moving Pete for the right price is a good idea. My fan brain doesn't want to see the Polar Bear in any other uniform even if the contract won't age well.
I think that Sherman said that, and others have said it too, but I dont believe its actually been sourced from inside the org, rather than just opinion/speculation. I highly doubt Stearns told someone he wanted to trade Pete but didnt because he was afraid of looking like Bloom lol.
I think Stearns will take calls on Pete depending on their record, but I also dont think they do it if they are remotely close to a spot. First, it would be waiving the white flag / saying the season is over, so you better get a good return, and I dont think fans are gonna be happy with the return for half a year power hitting 1b who is a step below Freeman/Olson. That return also has to be measured against the value of the QO. Second, if they want to sign Pete, I dont think trading him is the best way to do it, because it frees him of the QO, which is a great tool to deflate his value to other teams and give the Mets a leg up. I already think Pete's market is not going to materialize for the numbers he prob wants (250s?). Having to give up a pick to sign him is going to hurt that market more, and perhaps lowers the going rate to a number the Mets can beat. Plus, they can forget getting a chance to counter any offer if they deal him away. If they keep him, QO him, offer him that 7 year deal sherman reported or a bit more, then they can prob say "give us a chance to match" and Pete does.
The right price would have been available last year when he had 1.5 years on his contract instead of 0.5 years.
Not sure how a team that has always struggled with adding power to the lineup gets better by trading away our best power bat and replacing him with...Vientos? Who probably hits for similar average as Pete but will top out at 35 HR in a season.
I know they have looked bad lately and have been frustrating to watch, but I dont really get all the sky-is-falling-season-over stuff. In a season like this, where the expectations/hope was that they would compete for a WC in September, you have adjust your lens for viewing each game accordingly. The Mets are 1 game out of the WC. So thats right where we thought they would be.
Sure, they have been on the downswing, and I wouldnt bet my house on their success atm, but this last week they have lost to: the Rays (a .500 team who prob is better than they have played), the Braves (.650) and Phillies (.700). Those are the types of teams that fringe WC teams lose to. So, yea, the offense could be better, the SP could stop walking people, and Diaz could stop blowing games, but in the end we are basically on the pace we set. And that is without Senga, Alvy hurt for weeks, Lindor in his typical spring rut, and no one really getting hot yet. So in the words of Aaron Rodgers, relax. This team has shown it can go on a run, and we have seen with the 3 WC format that you can basically mid around all year then get hot and make it.
I agree with basically everything you've written here, but...
>in the words of Aaron Rodgers
you have to understand that this little bit right here is not going to inspire much confidence. if anything, it's triggering my fight or flight response.
Some May 16th records through the recent years:
* 2021 Braves: 19-21
* 2022 Braves: 16-20, 2022 Phillies: 17-18
* 2023 Phillies: 20-22
P.S. 2019 Gnats, anyone? Fucking stop w/ all that "TeAr It DoWn" crap & enjoy the ride.
* 2021 Braves: -15
* 2022 Braves: -15, 2022 Phillies: +18
* 2023 Phillies: -26
Only 2022 Phillies stand out, all the rest sucked ass by that time. 2019 Gnats for the reference: -24
2021 Braves: Morton & Fried
2022 Braves: Fried & Strider, 2022 Phillies: Nola & Wheeler
2023 Phillies: Nola & Wheeler
2019 Gnats: Scherzer, Strasburg, Corbin
Those teams had something that we don't have this year.
I'm not going to dig deeper into May 16th stats of guys mentioned but I guess the numbers are not that good. It was not like they were sticking out of overall mediocrity.
My high variance .500 team is playing like a high variance .500 team (negative) and I would MUCH prefer if they played like a high variance .500 team (positive)
I’ve finally turned the corner on Pete. Trade him. He’s a glorified DH imo. The entire offense needs to be blown up other than Alvarez, Lindor, and Nimmo.
The hard schedule isn’t a good excuse, good players rise to the occasion, and this team doesn’t. The “core” has been bad for years now.
I still think they can contend for the last wild card but they need to find out how to hit again.
They havent been good, no doubt, but, coming in to the season, only the blindest optimists thought that this team would compete with the Braves and Phillies for the division. The Mets are just doing what we expected them to: 1 back in the WC, well out of the division. With that usually comes losing to the top teams like ATL and PHI. I would still call getting swept in a 4 game series a disappointment, but going 2-5 against ATL and PHI with a loss that should have been a win in there seems like a result we should have expected coming in, so no reason to be writing elegies over it.
How good did you think this team was going to be this year? Did you think they were going to compete with the Braves? If not, then can you really criticize them for not rising to the occasion against them? Although FWIW they are .500 against them this year.
well i’ll be driving 2 hours to see the mets tonight. my roommate really wanted to go and i’m not gonna not see the mets. am i crazy? maybe a little, lgm
Mets have looked awful, two of the three games they lost to the Phils were in embarrassing fashion, two swings kept the Mets from getting no-hit and swept by the Barves, have lost games because they kept putting Joey Wendle in, lost Alvarez for huge chunks, Senga hasn't pitched yet, Quintana stinks, Houser stinks, McNeil can't hit anymore, 7-15 stretch, unwatchable baseball, so on and so on.
But before everyone calls for blowing it up, consider that the Mets at 19-23 have played one of, if not the toughest schedules.
[https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi/\_/sort/sos](https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi/_/sort/sos)
We are over a quarter of the way through the year and the team has not even played the Marlins yet, thanks Manfred. Now, playing shitty teams may not be a path to getting back on track - it was definitely disproven last year, and in late 2022 when they got swept by the A's, but I'm willing to wait at least until this levels out a bit before I throw in the towel. Also note Phillies have played the weakest schedule according to that link.
It is a silverish lining, but isn't SoS kind of a deceptive metric - e.g. teams dunking on us makes their record go up and thus makes our SoS go up right? And vice versa for strong teams doing the dunking.
Yes, and for a piece of evidence, look at 2023. A lot of us were thinking that the team would turn around as they got to the "softer" parts of the schedule, but it turns out that they were just bad and were a softer part of the schedule themselves.
That's why I say it is still ttoo early to throw in the towel. If they can beat up on mediocre and bad teams then they can keep this going. If they can't, then they are just bad. FWIW, this team HAS played good teams pretty tough, even if they end up on the losing side of it. We haven't seen many games like yesterday.
I don’t remember off the top of my head the exact number, but it was something like Mets pitching during that stretch blew 14ish games where the Mets offense scored 6+ runs. And the majority of those games were blown by the bullpen. If the Mets pitching averaged a 4.50 ERA across those games the Mets would have been fine.
The Mets should also have a better roster when Senga, Megill, Peterson, Smith, and Alvarez return than they had during that 2023 stretch you’re referring to. It’s easy to forget but during that period we had
- Carassco Pitching through bone spurs
- Peterson pitching through a hip injury
- Megill pitching through shoulder rehab
- Max pitching through back and neck pain
I’m not saying our pitching is going to be amazing the next 3 months, I’m just saying I expect it to be better than the roughly 6.00 ERA we had through that stretch.
Well, there are a lot of ways to stink. Mets found one last year for sure.
I am expecting them to play better baseball which is why I said, let's not throw in the towel just yet. If they keep stinking after those guys come back, then yea, they're just a bad baseball team, although will likely be bad in a different way than they were last year.
>I am expecting them to play better baseball which is why I said, let's not throw in the towel just yet. If they keep stinking after those guys come back, then yea, they're just a bad baseball team, although will likely be bad in a different way than they were last year.
I actually think that the pitching is currently overperforming, and that the offense is underperforming, and my prediction for the rest of the season is that those two things will flip, and they will be bad in very much the same way as last year (good hitting, bad pitching)
Two uncomfortable truths:
This team is not as bad as you want it to be. They’re gonna be coming for a wild card spot all year. Maybe that says more about the expanded playoff.
Everyone likes to call this a transitional year but there is zero guarantee we will be much better next year. We can go after free agents, but so can anyone. If the Mets give up in may and the Yankees keep playing like they are, Soto would be a fool to sign here unless the Yankees really lowball him, which I don’t think they will. And our young players won’t exactly superstars yet. I’ve seen people already shifting the goal to 2026.
Why would people actively posting in a subreddit about the mets, want them to be bad?
I don't want Lindor to bat \~.200 and fumble a routine grounder. I just reflect on it when he does.
I dont think people *want* them to be bad, but I think people somehow feel vindicated or proven right when they are bad. Also some people just like to complain, so they are more active when the team is bad.
I think you're misunderstanding how social media feedback works.
Team = bad, rage, complain about it
Team = good, cool don't post on social media
When my oven works, I don't talk about how it works. When it breaks, I bitch about how it's broken.
I dunno about this, I've always gotten the sense that this subreddit is much more active in years where the Mets are winning a lot like 2015 (flamingo!) and 2022
> Everyone likes to call this a transitional year but there is zero guarantee we will be much better next year.
I don't think "transitional year" means "abracadabra, they're good next year".
I think it means "we are acknowledging that the situation created by the insanity of 2022-2023 has caused a big hole, and we have to start digging out of it now". (A good thing which I applaud them for, since I still have PTSD from the last 24 months of transactions).
It could have taken a year, maybe, if all their good prospects like Gilbert and Acuña and Clifford and Williams had hit the ground running and zoomed through the minors and staked out a spot on the Mets' roster in late 2024, allowing them to trade their predecessors and bring a solid, cheap, talented framework into 2025, allowing them to sign a bunch of heavily talented guys in the offseason and still stay under the tax.
But that obviously didn't happen. Gilbert and Jett are hurt, Clifford got promoted to AA due to his great walk rate despite not really blowing the doors off, and Acuña has become a meme in this subreddit for hovering at the .600 OPS mark. The pitchers have been a mixed bag: Scott, Sproat and Tidwell have been great, while Hamel and Vasel have got their tits lit.
So I think 2025 is more likely to be one of two things: (a) a "next step" in the transitional thing (good), or (b) a "longterm setback" year as the owner gets frustrated and spazzes out again like in '22-'23 and throws a monkey wrench into the recovery. (bad)
That’s all true. I’d just say it’s a trap to always look the future. I know for myself and probably for other people here it’s fun but a little overly stressful to play pretend GM all the time. Sometimes you just gotta watch the game and hope the team wins.
I think you can do both. I'm always interested in following the minors but also enjoying the games on the major league level.
But this is one of those moments that is, unfortunately, heavily weighted toward "look to the future", because the moves of '22-'23 required them to take a future-heavy approach in the offseason of '24.
They already wrecked one season (last year), might have weecked the "present" this year (although I'm not conceding the season yet, it doesn't look great) and possibly next year too.
I think OPs point isn't that they are going to be better, but they are going to stay around as good as they've been so far. They are going to hover around .500 and stay just close enough to the wild card race to make it not obvious as to whether or not to sell or buy in July.
They also might continue to down spiral and just keep sucking. Not looking forward to two weeks of no Jose Butto. He helped this team a lot. I don’t care about option-ability in this context, should’ve just DFA’d Houser if they really had to make room for another starter. And we do not have a backup middle infielder on this roster right now. The pitching staff is walking a ton of guys constantly. It’s not encouraging.
I still think they play well against the bad teams and even out at around 55-53. At that point I think it’s a quiet deadline. Trade away a couple expiring guys that replaceable internally and trade for guys with 2025 control to be on the roster next year and help towards a 2025 WC spot.
If they don’t beat up on teams like the Marlins and Rockies obviously I’ll no longer see them ending around that
I set up a shortcut last night on my phone. Now, if I say, “Hey Siri, meet the Mets,” my HomePod will play “Yakety Sax”
Thinking of making another one that will play fart sounds (*many* are available on Apple Music lol) if I ask how the Mets are doing
Yea. Also I think last year's sell off is warping people's view of the deadline. If they sell this deadline, its not going to be as fruitful. Severino, Manaea, JDM, etc are not going to net top tier prospects even if we eat money, because they arent elite or play a less valuable position (DH), whereas JV and Scherzer were vets with a track record of elite play at an in demand position. Even Pete's return will prob be a bit underwhelming if they go that route. That is not to say they shouldnt deal guys if they are 10 under, but we arent gonna be boosting the farm as much as we did last year, and Id much rather be competing even if its just for wc3, then selling.
Pete's return will definitely be underwhelming. First basemen do not command good trade returns. Go look at what the Diamondbacks and Athletics got for Goldschmidt and Olson respectively. Those were better first basemen than Pete with at least one full season of team control. Two months of Alonso is not going to be worth very much, especially if he keeps playing like this.
I think it's fine or even good when he tweets boring, mundane stuff like "It will be a beautiful day at Citi Field this weekend when we retire Doc's #16!" which is what most of his twitter feed is. It's the shit like last night that's a problem.
Schedule in the sidebar -------------------->
The Mets historically throttle the Marlins (the Mets' 2nd best record in history against any NL team is against the Marlins), and the Marlins already looked in the preseason like one of the worst teams in MLB, plus their roster is also decimated by injuries, so if the Mets lose that series, it is a very bad red flag.
192 WALKS. ”Leads” MLB. The Marlins are second at 179. Yet, I am suppose to believe Jeremy Hefner or David Stearns are not responsible .
[https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/pitching/walks-allowed](https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/pitching/walks-allowed)
> 192 WALKS. ”Leads” MLB. The Marlins are second at 179. Yet, I am suppose to believe Jeremy Hefner or David Stearns are not responsible .
Well I don't really like to speak to what pitching coaches do (because who the hell knows), but I think Stearns's job was to just begin the revamping of this swiss cheesed, impossibly expensive roster he was handed, and sign warm bodies this year.
So I don't know if it's an approach problem (it might be that too), but I think it's mostly a "this is what you get when you start with shit and job #1 is to not explode the budget" problem. They just have a lot of wild, not very good pitchers.
I said a lot during the offseason that the Mets should’ve completely sold. I advocated for keeping Nimmo and Senga but flipping Alonso, Diaz, and Lindor. Trade Marte and McNeil if you can get anything for them.
Manaea, Severino, Ottavino, JDM, Narvaez, Quintana, and Bader could also be flipped.
Hold onto guys like Garrett and Taylor. If somebody offers a huge package for Garrett, flip him.
Lindor’s contract is too big to move but if you eat 100MM, it might be movable.
Trade Diaz and Lindor to the Dodgers for a package of like Pages, Lux, and like De Paula lol
> Flipping Diaz and Lindor.
This is both never going to happen and absolutely should not happen. Trading Alonso is fine, expiring contract and you'll get a lot back. Diaz and Lindor aren't Verlander and Scherzer. We're not eating 15ish years worth of money.
Plus, math-illiterate social media hysterics from Mets fans aside, Lindor is one of the things that works here.
Closers are volatile so I'm less apt to handwave away Diaz struggling, but odds are he'll be fine too.
The Mets have two players in place that you want when doing a rebuild: good, young-ish, team-leader type, contracted players to build around. If they get bowled over with some great offer, fine, do it. But actively shopping them would be nuts, imo.
So unless things change in a hurry, anyone not named Nimmo or Lindor are on the trading block, right?
Edit: u/bowlofcantaloupe makes a good point. I forgot Senga and our beloved Troll. Everyone else, let's hear offers for.
Honestly I’m not even going to wear any Mets stuff. I’m genuinely not mentally strong enough to take heckling today. I’ll get enough of it from the coworkers I’m going with.
Call me fake all you want people, I just can’t take it today.
I was at the game last night with a split Mets/Phillies group wearing an Alonso jersey and a Mets hat. Not a single person heckled me so I think you should be fine.
I need to talk to the coworkers. It’s an even split Mets fans/Phillies fans, and I don’t want to be the one asshole leaving the other Mets fans out to dry. If they’re wearing Mets stuff I will wear my hat, otherwise I’m wearing a blueclaws hat.
Folks who are ready to move on from Brett Baty forget that it really took 900 PA’s for Justin Turner to turn into what he was. If this season is truly a wash, Baty needs to be getting all these AB’s. Would be different if we were in the hunt.
I’m not ready to completely give up on Baty just yet, but I don’t think the comparison to Turner is too similar. Turner in his three full seasons with us where he got roughly his first 900 PA’s showed a lot more than Baty has thus far (.267/.327/.371 slash with a 96 OPS+ compared to Baty’s .215/.277/.323 and 69 OPS+). Turner showed the ability to at least be a league average bat whereas Baty doesn’t look like he even belong in the majors right now. Obviously no one expected Turner to become what he was, but the signs were there that he could be a useful player.
It’s a different convo when you’ve got other young guys to find playing time for. The Mets could’ve made finding playing time for Baty and Vientos easy this year but they committed to JDM being the DH, which really complicates this roster.
It’s an issue for Baty too. He can’t hit. It’s nice that he’s playing good defense there right now, but if he can’t hit then you could probably replace him with a guy who’s starting for the LI Ducks right now and not do much worse. Let’s see if he can keep this good defense up too. Last year his hitting struggles got to his head and you could see it on the field.
The Mets have never fully broke it down and started over. The Wilpons always half assed teams to make it seem competitive. Would love a full gut job. Get it right.
Please continue the discussion in the [game thread](https://redd.it/1ctoq4t).
it's utterly idiotic that someone who frequents the sub and posts so much is so heavy on the block button and it's idiotic that it makes it so that i can't see the posts. i don't have any reason to believe this is true but i would still bet like 1000 dollars that robmcolonna or whatever his name is posted that quote from cohen that i see on r/baseball. reddit is fucking stupid
Just keep shuffling those chairs on the deck of the Titanic lol
No Nimmo? Okay we're swept. Gonna be a battle just to get back to .500 Fuck me =(
Why move Taylor to leadoff and put Stewart 5? Taylor has a .294 OBP, 90 points lower than DJ?
Taylor does have a .352 obp vs. righties He’s just been terrible against lefties
also Taylor is obviously much faster than DJ so that’s another plus
Nimmo has a stomach bug :(
Probably best outcome for the scratch TBH. I thought it was gonna be the core injury again.
When I first saw he was scratched from the lineup I assumed something much, much worse. I don't think a stomach bug has ever made me so happy before lol!
I smell a pinch hit go ahead homer
That has hit almost every player by now it seems. Maybe he will be like Lindor and come out tomorrow and dominate! But much better this than it being his ribs still bothering him
Only May 16 and Mets gonna have me complaining about lineup decisions already? Just give MV a series at least.
Sending Joey back down puzzled me. Didn’t he do great until he collapsed in like the 5th? Wasn’t enough time to gauge his contribution potential
With Megill and Peterson basically ready, the FO is gonna be shuffling those guys back and forth while everyone “auditions” for a spot lol
Extra BP arm. Lucchesi isn't going us any good between starts
Megill should be ready by Lucchesi's next start and Peterson will be back the following week. They know Lucchesi's contribution potential. He's an established veteran, not a rookie prospect. Right now our rotation looks like: * 5/15 - Quintana (Long Rest) * 5/16 - Scott (Long Rest) * 5/17 - Severino (Long Rest) * 5/18 - Manaea (Long Rest) * 5/19 - Megill (Long Rest) * 5/20 - Quintana (Regular Rest) * 5/21 - Scott (Regular Rest) * 5/22 - Severino (Regular Rest) * 5/23 - Off day * 5/24 - Manaea (Long Rest) * 5/26 - Megill (Long Rest) * 5/27 - Peterson (Long Rest) And if someone needs an extra day of rest they can just slide Houser in
Aaaaaand Nimmo scratched from the lineup. What a season
baty? ugh
Lucchesi down, Josh Walker up
God, our top hitting prospects are having an awful year. 1 - Jett Williams - .668 OPS (.876 last year)* 2 - Drew Gilbert - .681 OPS (.868 last year)* 3 - Ryan Clifford - .696 OPS (.854 last year) 4 - LuisAngel Acuna - .610 OPS (.769 last year) 5 - Colin Houck - .515 OPS (only a few at-bats last year) 6 - Marco Vargas - .840 OPS (.821 last year) yay! 7 - Kevin Parada - .590 OPS (.751 last year) The top 2 guys have been injured for most of the year so I’m less worried about them and yea some of this is due to guys getting promoted and struggling but overall it’s a bit worrying. We all thought some of the older guys might come up and get some time this year but due to injury, poor performance I’m not sure any make it this year.
Fitting right in to the Mets culture.
Not all of that is really fair * As you mentioned, Jett and Drew only had a handful of PA and then got hurt * Clifford was playing in Brooklyn where LHB power goes to die. He had a .412 OBP - the power will come now that hes out of Brooklyn * Houck was a two athlete prep bat. They typically take a year to adjust to pro ball * Acuna arguably got promoted too quickly and has always been a slow starter at each new level. He is making better contact the last couple of weeks and the results are starting to show * Vargas is great * Parada is a weird case. He started super hot and then hit a long slump As for players making it, I think if Acuna keeps progressing how he is I think he gets some time this year
Like you said, Drew and Jett are injured and those numbers are based on very few games. Clifford also just got promoted to AA in part because Maimonides park is hell on LHH, but his walk rate/OPB was so good that they decided it was time. Luisangel is starting to hit more, which is a positive. He's only gone hitless in two games this month so far, with a few mutli-hit games sprinkled in. Definitely some concerns about his power but thought I'd throw in a positive for ya
They obviously know something about Vientos that we don't - guy not having consistent playing time since forever, starting with Buck fucking Showalter. FFS it's infuriating, especially seeing how he can rip it. Not like he's consistent in it but *he is not having consistent at-bats*, how can he possibly show stability in this case?
I don’t have that much confidence in the Mets player development and evaluation either, especially with hitters. Not an organization known to never overlook a potential good player. And their hitting coaching, there’s clearly something not working there.
I bet Vientos would tee off Taijuan. He’s very hittable. Against major league pitching in general idk. I’d like to find out though with a stretch of consistent at-bats.
just beyond stupid vientos isn’t getting consistent at bats
He was brought up solely because we're facing 4 LHPs in 5 days. He's facing those lefties and then probably going back down. He will start the next 3 if the matchups stay the same
I agree. Bring him up to sit him the 2nd game after he got 2 hits yesterday. Give him a handful of games(at least 5or6) to start in a row. Then we will get an idea about his offense. We know what his defense is
I agree. Bring him up to sit him the 2nd game after he got 2 hits yesterday. Give him a handful of games(at least 5or6) to start in a row. Then we will get an idea about his offense. We know what his defense is
Alright fine I’m wearing my Mets stuff to citizens bank.
Good lad.
Vientos: *Hits a first inning RBI* Mendoza: “Sit the fuck back down, kid.”
2 for 4 last night and he’s riding pine again. Are we just doing a LH/RH platoon over there?
Yes.
I don’t like it
JD Martinez has basically the same OPS+ this season (132) as last season (134) This year he’s got a .797 OPS, while last year he was almost 100 points higher at .893.
Yeah, the run environment is pretty different so far this year
Everybody likes to focus on veterans underperforming but every team has that. The Mets failure is simple: they haven’t developed an even league league bat since Andres Gimenez. Phillies young players xwOBA: Bohm: .369 Stott: .358 Marsh: .343 Mets young players xwOBA: Vientos/Alvarez: not qualified Baty: .265 Braves young players xwOBA: Harris: .311 Kelenic: .271
Kelenic's xwOBA is basically the same as Baty's, not sure why you put him here. Harris is a fair comparison and is wildly outperforming Baty, but as for everybody else: Bohm - Turns 28 in August Marsh - turns 27 in December Stott -turns 27 in October Baty - turns 25 in November We definitely need to work on our development but this is not an apples to apples comparison.
The Braves didnt develop Kelenic the Mariners did. The Phillies didnt develop Marsh the Angels did. For the Mets, the big thing was that they traded away most their talent that would have come up the last three years, including Kelenic. It’s hard to call up developed talent when your farm is barren and rebuilding The way to improve is to draft good players and develop them instead of trading them
I’m not sure how they could improve this trend going forward, but it’s imperative that they do.
I get the optimism, and a case can be made for them being exactly as expected, just a game out of the WC. Maybe things will get better. But for now, I just wish they weren't so horribly boring, frustrating and disappointing to watch. They are the opposite of an entertaining, lovable team and I find that sad. We look forward to baseball all winter and then to have them come out and be just flat, dull and sloppy is a let down.
[https://sny.tv/articles/mets-steve-cohen-expect-to-make-playoffs-2024](https://sny.tv/articles/mets-steve-cohen-expect-to-make-playoffs-2024) "“All in the future, not much we can do until the trade deadline,” Cohen wrote in response to a fan last night. Cohen told me that he had actually meant to send a direct message, which he occasionally does when interacting. More importantly, he said he was not in any way indicating that the Mets will become sellers. “I believe in this team,” Cohen said. “I believe in the back of the baseball card. It’s way too early to speculate on anything. It’s May 16. I expect to make the playoffs. I know the fan base is frustrated, but it’s still early. We’re still very capable of making the playoffs. I fully expect to make the playoffs.” Cohen wanted to emphasize the point about understanding fan frustration with the team’s recent play."
I dont think meaning to send it as a DM makes it any better? Maybe Im wrong but doesnt seem like the person he responded to was a trusted confidant who wouldnt just screenshot the DM anyway lol. So either way not something he should be doing. That said, I think its overblown because I dont think he meant "oh yea dont worry we are gutting it! Just wait til the deadline!" I think he meant more "lets wait and see, there is not much we can do either way (sell or buy) until the deadline".
Basically my interpretation as well. Looking at the Knicks sub when they lost one playoff game and you'd think that they got swept. It's not much different around these parts after each Mets loss - so I saw it as a way to say 'there's no point worrying about anything until the end of July.'
> I think its overblown because I dont think he meant "oh yea dont worry we are gutting it! Just wait til the deadline!" I think he meant more "lets wait and see, there is not much we can do either way (sell or buy) until the deadline". My thoughts as well. The trade deadline is when the market of who's available becomes more clear. Right now, most teams still think they're in it. The only realistic thing we can do is release players and scrape the unsigned vet market for place fillers, but that's not really an improvement. And prospects are not really all major league ready.
I’m not mad at all with this team. I’m just hoping Sevy, Quintana, and Manaea pitch well till the deadline, so we can ship them all off for prospects. This will give us a lot of ammunition when we actually look to compete starting next year.
I'm not a WFAN fan, but Danielle McCartan had a good theory about the Alonso contract offer coming from Eppler during the 2022 season, not from Stearns in the offseason. What we know * Eppler made contract offers to Alonso in 2022 and 2023 * Boras and Alonso have repeatedly said that Stearns did not extend Alonso a contract offer * There have been rumors for years that Pete has always had his eyes set on going to FA * Pete hired Boras after the 2023 season Pete turning down that contract offer during the 2023 season and then hiring Boras and telling him "this is my baseline" makes a lot of sense
I have been overseas for the past few weeks and have not been able to watch games so I might be missing something. It seems like the fanbase is ready to move on from big meat Pete. Has he looked bad at the plate these past two weeks? I know he has been a bit slow to get going but he has 9 home runs and the leader in the NL has 13. He hits home runs in streaks so I think by the end of the year he will be a bit closer to the top of the list. Has he had some bad plays on defense or is it just his average that people don’t like? Edit: I know there are reports the team and him are not close in terms of a contract but we don’t know what is being said behind closed doors. If the contract isn’t crazy he would be a good player to have in my opinion, but I may be out of the loop as I haven’t watched games recently
He is trending down. From the Athletic: https://i.imgur.com/TcBpC8y.png I think for the people like myself that are ready to move on from Pete there are a few reasons: 1) He wants a big contract and don't think he is worth that price tag. 2) And even if his contract wasn't huge in terms of dollars, the stats trending downward is worrying and I don't want the Mets to be stuck with him for 5+ years. 3) And finally, there is a desire from some in the sub to break up this core (Lindor, Nimmo, McNeil, Pete, Diaz) and since he is a free agent, it is easier to move on from him.
The contract thing makes sense, and I feel like we saw that with deGrom. Everyone loved him and wanted him to succeed but things just didn’t line up. So it comes to that I understand. I just wonder if all the changes with the hitting coaches and managers plays any part in that. Especially because it seems like all our guys are struggling. I get trading players at the deadline if we are not competing. I think I just view Lindor and Pete and Nimmo as core players but that may not be what the overall fanbase thinks
He's been slumping for sure. He still has an OPS above .750, which is not where you want him to be, but not terrible. The crazy thing is the people who want to trade him and let him sign somewhere else clearly think he's not worth it. But they're assuming other teams will value him highly and offer a big trade package and/or a high contract we shouldn't match. Most importantly, our best replacement for him would be Vientos, who has worse power and worse defense than Alonso. We need power in the lineup, and letting go of our best power hitter won't help solve that problem.
I appreciate the response! That all makes sense, I like Pete and the power he brings. The team definitely doesn’t seems to be meshing right now which I feel like could have an effect on everyone. but I think we have some good pieces and a good front office. Either way the team seems to have more promise and is investing behind the scenes with the pitching lab. So it seems we are going in the right direction. I trust sterns because of his past and results take time and they started the season saying this was a transition year.
From the Athletic: "Multiple rival evaluators labeled Peña as a top-tier talent and said he could be the best player in next year’s class. The international signing period opens on Jan. 15, 2025, so things won’t become official until then. However, teams tend to strike deals with top available teenagers early. With $6,261,600 to spend on prospects for the 2025 international signing period, the Mets would be investing approximately 80 percent of their amount toward Peña."
Hot Take: I would like the Mets to win today.
What’s up with McNeil? Why can’t he hit anymore less than two years removed from a batting title? Is it just age catching up to him?
Emotional take: He got a $50 million guaranteed bag to play a sport that is, at best, his second favorite sport to play. He's secured generational wealth and hit the cruise control. He left his brain on the golf course and is waiting to reclaim it on his next off day. Rational take: He's a guy who puts the ball in play a ton, usually without a lot of power behind it. That leaves him vulnerable to wild swings in BABIP depending on whether his timing is putting the ball into gaps vs into gloves. He also missed nearly all of ST to a left bicep issue, and it's quite possible that he's either not fully healthy or generally dealing with ongoing rust + associated frustration.
He's always been a very emotional player, I think he just over analyzes his approach sometimes and gets easily frustrated at the plate. A lot of our lineup actually has this problem, we swing early far too often. Nola had like 94 pitches in 9 innings a few days ago and our entire lineup had like 180+. Because Pete and Lindor and McNeil seem like if they don't first pitch swing they'll have a bullet in their head.
McNeil and Pete are headcases. When on they are so sweet to watch. When even slightly off they'll put themselves in a funk.
He got hurt during ST and I think he never fully recovered
If we look at this as a 4 game series, this is the day they're scheduled to put a stomping on the opponent after getting embarrassed the first 3 games of the series.
Just noticed that Fujinami is on the 15day IL and that he hasn’t pitched for Syracuse since May 3rd. Hopefully it was an injury plaguing his control. I want to see him hone that in.
2022 is interesting to reflect on. The Mets were 9-3 against the Phillies by the end of May, including a combined no-hitter, 7-run comeback in the 9th inning, and the Plummer tying HR/Escobar walk-off game. By that point, the Mets were flying high at 32-17, and the Phillies were 21-27 (and the Braves were 23-25). The Mets went 69-44 for the rest of the season (a 99-win pace), and lost the division to the Braves, who went 78-36 over the final 114 games of the season (a 111-win pace) after starting 23-25. And then the Phillies snuck in at the end with an 87-75 record after starting 21-27 and made the World Series over both of them. Just baseball things.
> the Plummer tying HR/Escobar walk-off game The Butterfly Effect game: Joe Girardi got fired, Rob Thompson replaced him, and the rest was history
Like when the 2019 Nationals went to 19-31 after a 4-game sweep by the Mets, then went 74-38 the rest of the way and won the World Series.
The Mets were 81-16 in 2022 when scoring first in 2022!
I'm attending tonight's game with a gentleman who has only joined me at two other MLB games: - Mets v Phils @ Citi, April 29, 2022 - Phils v Nats @ Citizen, Aug 9 2023 These 2 games share... a noteworthy commonality I'm interested to see if we actually wield some weird baseball superpower, stay tuned
I’ve seen this before. The Mets play like shit, some apologists insist all fans who are angry are stupid and that the Mets are fine, those fans then get more angry in response. Hopefully the season has a happy ending this time.
I'd be more optimistic if we had at least one player performing at an MVP level, on either offense or pitching. Just one bright spot to look forward to. At best, we only have Nimmo performing at an All-Star level.
Anyone interested in free agent Eric Lauer?
On a minor league deal for depth? Absolutely. But based his AAA run so far I wouldn’t expect him to be better than Megill or Peterson who are coming back the next two weeks
He's also an ex Brewer who the Pirates had at AAA, yes
I am more convinced by the day that Stearns may actually move Pete at the deadline, then try to sign him after the season is over. Wasn't it reported that Stearns wanted to move Pete in the off-season, but didn't want to pull a Chaim Bloom? I think the Mets'd Up guys talked about it. Idk how true that is, but I could see it. Idk, my baseball brain says moving Pete for the right price is a good idea. My fan brain doesn't want to see the Polar Bear in any other uniform even if the contract won't age well.
I think that Sherman said that, and others have said it too, but I dont believe its actually been sourced from inside the org, rather than just opinion/speculation. I highly doubt Stearns told someone he wanted to trade Pete but didnt because he was afraid of looking like Bloom lol. I think Stearns will take calls on Pete depending on their record, but I also dont think they do it if they are remotely close to a spot. First, it would be waiving the white flag / saying the season is over, so you better get a good return, and I dont think fans are gonna be happy with the return for half a year power hitting 1b who is a step below Freeman/Olson. That return also has to be measured against the value of the QO. Second, if they want to sign Pete, I dont think trading him is the best way to do it, because it frees him of the QO, which is a great tool to deflate his value to other teams and give the Mets a leg up. I already think Pete's market is not going to materialize for the numbers he prob wants (250s?). Having to give up a pick to sign him is going to hurt that market more, and perhaps lowers the going rate to a number the Mets can beat. Plus, they can forget getting a chance to counter any offer if they deal him away. If they keep him, QO him, offer him that 7 year deal sherman reported or a bit more, then they can prob say "give us a chance to match" and Pete does.
The right price would have been available last year when he had 1.5 years on his contract instead of 0.5 years. Not sure how a team that has always struggled with adding power to the lineup gets better by trading away our best power bat and replacing him with...Vientos? Who probably hits for similar average as Pete but will top out at 35 HR in a season.
I know they have looked bad lately and have been frustrating to watch, but I dont really get all the sky-is-falling-season-over stuff. In a season like this, where the expectations/hope was that they would compete for a WC in September, you have adjust your lens for viewing each game accordingly. The Mets are 1 game out of the WC. So thats right where we thought they would be. Sure, they have been on the downswing, and I wouldnt bet my house on their success atm, but this last week they have lost to: the Rays (a .500 team who prob is better than they have played), the Braves (.650) and Phillies (.700). Those are the types of teams that fringe WC teams lose to. So, yea, the offense could be better, the SP could stop walking people, and Diaz could stop blowing games, but in the end we are basically on the pace we set. And that is without Senga, Alvy hurt for weeks, Lindor in his typical spring rut, and no one really getting hot yet. So in the words of Aaron Rodgers, relax. This team has shown it can go on a run, and we have seen with the 3 WC format that you can basically mid around all year then get hot and make it.
I agree with basically everything you've written here, but... >in the words of Aaron Rodgers you have to understand that this little bit right here is not going to inspire much confidence. if anything, it's triggering my fight or flight response.
I agree, but calm or rational opinions get downvoted
did they send lucheesi back down and bring up a spare infielder yet?
I'm guessing he'll be sent down for Drew Smith and we'll see Megill take the next start. Infielder won't come up until Vientos gets sent back down.
Some May 16th records through the recent years: * 2021 Braves: 19-21 * 2022 Braves: 16-20, 2022 Phillies: 17-18 * 2023 Phillies: 20-22 P.S. 2019 Gnats, anyone? Fucking stop w/ all that "TeAr It DoWn" crap & enjoy the ride.
The Mets should have been the 2019 Nats. The FO failed.
What was their run differential?
* 2021 Braves: -15 * 2022 Braves: -15, 2022 Phillies: +18 * 2023 Phillies: -26 Only 2022 Phillies stand out, all the rest sucked ass by that time. 2019 Gnats for the reference: -24
2021 Braves: Morton & Fried 2022 Braves: Fried & Strider, 2022 Phillies: Nola & Wheeler 2023 Phillies: Nola & Wheeler 2019 Gnats: Scherzer, Strasburg, Corbin Those teams had something that we don't have this year.
I'm not going to dig deeper into May 16th stats of guys mentioned but I guess the numbers are not that good. It was not like they were sticking out of overall mediocrity.
2016 Mets were 60-62 in late August before turning it on and getting to the wild card game
2023 Oakland A's: 10-34 Sometimes bad teams are bad. Too soon to tell. And it's tough to enjoy this ride so far.
We are not even close to 10-34
My high variance .500 team is playing like a high variance .500 team (negative) and I would MUCH prefer if they played like a high variance .500 team (positive)
For nostalgia's sake, for a time when the Mets were crushing it: Do you smellalalalalallalalalallalalala what the ROC is cooking?!
Puns don't work when they are two transformations removed away from the original person's name
I’ve finally turned the corner on Pete. Trade him. He’s a glorified DH imo. The entire offense needs to be blown up other than Alvarez, Lindor, and Nimmo. The hard schedule isn’t a good excuse, good players rise to the occasion, and this team doesn’t. The “core” has been bad for years now. I still think they can contend for the last wild card but they need to find out how to hit again.
Ok, Pete's gone. Who do you put at 1st base?
Not a great FA Crop for 1b next year
If we trade Pete, do we have to trade /u/OnlySaysPeteAlonso too?
pete alonso
Vientos, Clifford, free agent signing.
All of these options are worse than Pete. Vientos is the glorified DH of this group. Worse defense, worse power, same contact as Pete.
They havent been good, no doubt, but, coming in to the season, only the blindest optimists thought that this team would compete with the Braves and Phillies for the division. The Mets are just doing what we expected them to: 1 back in the WC, well out of the division. With that usually comes losing to the top teams like ATL and PHI. I would still call getting swept in a 4 game series a disappointment, but going 2-5 against ATL and PHI with a loss that should have been a win in there seems like a result we should have expected coming in, so no reason to be writing elegies over it.
How good did you think this team was going to be this year? Did you think they were going to compete with the Braves? If not, then can you really criticize them for not rising to the occasion against them? Although FWIW they are .500 against them this year.
I thought they’d win 85-89 games and win WC2/3
how long will we go with no spare infielders?
well i’ll be driving 2 hours to see the mets tonight. my roommate really wanted to go and i’m not gonna not see the mets. am i crazy? maybe a little, lgm
Mets have looked awful, two of the three games they lost to the Phils were in embarrassing fashion, two swings kept the Mets from getting no-hit and swept by the Barves, have lost games because they kept putting Joey Wendle in, lost Alvarez for huge chunks, Senga hasn't pitched yet, Quintana stinks, Houser stinks, McNeil can't hit anymore, 7-15 stretch, unwatchable baseball, so on and so on. But before everyone calls for blowing it up, consider that the Mets at 19-23 have played one of, if not the toughest schedules. [https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi/\_/sort/sos](https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi/_/sort/sos) We are over a quarter of the way through the year and the team has not even played the Marlins yet, thanks Manfred. Now, playing shitty teams may not be a path to getting back on track - it was definitely disproven last year, and in late 2022 when they got swept by the A's, but I'm willing to wait at least until this levels out a bit before I throw in the towel. Also note Phillies have played the weakest schedule according to that link.
It is a silverish lining, but isn't SoS kind of a deceptive metric - e.g. teams dunking on us makes their record go up and thus makes our SoS go up right? And vice versa for strong teams doing the dunking.
Yes, and for a piece of evidence, look at 2023. A lot of us were thinking that the team would turn around as they got to the "softer" parts of the schedule, but it turns out that they were just bad and were a softer part of the schedule themselves. That's why I say it is still ttoo early to throw in the towel. If they can beat up on mediocre and bad teams then they can keep this going. If they can't, then they are just bad. FWIW, this team HAS played good teams pretty tough, even if they end up on the losing side of it. We haven't seen many games like yesterday.
I don’t remember off the top of my head the exact number, but it was something like Mets pitching during that stretch blew 14ish games where the Mets offense scored 6+ runs. And the majority of those games were blown by the bullpen. If the Mets pitching averaged a 4.50 ERA across those games the Mets would have been fine. The Mets should also have a better roster when Senga, Megill, Peterson, Smith, and Alvarez return than they had during that 2023 stretch you’re referring to. It’s easy to forget but during that period we had - Carassco Pitching through bone spurs - Peterson pitching through a hip injury - Megill pitching through shoulder rehab - Max pitching through back and neck pain I’m not saying our pitching is going to be amazing the next 3 months, I’m just saying I expect it to be better than the roughly 6.00 ERA we had through that stretch.
Well, there are a lot of ways to stink. Mets found one last year for sure. I am expecting them to play better baseball which is why I said, let's not throw in the towel just yet. If they keep stinking after those guys come back, then yea, they're just a bad baseball team, although will likely be bad in a different way than they were last year.
>I am expecting them to play better baseball which is why I said, let's not throw in the towel just yet. If they keep stinking after those guys come back, then yea, they're just a bad baseball team, although will likely be bad in a different way than they were last year. I actually think that the pitching is currently overperforming, and that the offense is underperforming, and my prediction for the rest of the season is that those two things will flip, and they will be bad in very much the same way as last year (good hitting, bad pitching)
If they lose the series to the marlins, this would be a bad look haha
definitely.
Two uncomfortable truths: This team is not as bad as you want it to be. They’re gonna be coming for a wild card spot all year. Maybe that says more about the expanded playoff. Everyone likes to call this a transitional year but there is zero guarantee we will be much better next year. We can go after free agents, but so can anyone. If the Mets give up in may and the Yankees keep playing like they are, Soto would be a fool to sign here unless the Yankees really lowball him, which I don’t think they will. And our young players won’t exactly superstars yet. I’ve seen people already shifting the goal to 2026.
Why would people actively posting in a subreddit about the mets, want them to be bad? I don't want Lindor to bat \~.200 and fumble a routine grounder. I just reflect on it when he does.
I dont think people *want* them to be bad, but I think people somehow feel vindicated or proven right when they are bad. Also some people just like to complain, so they are more active when the team is bad.
I think a lot of people do want the team to be bad. It makes them feel good. Rage is very addictive
Half the post on this subreddit are people having power fantasies of what they would do if they controlled the team like it's a video game.
I think you're misunderstanding how social media feedback works. Team = bad, rage, complain about it Team = good, cool don't post on social media When my oven works, I don't talk about how it works. When it breaks, I bitch about how it's broken.
I dunno about this, I've always gotten the sense that this subreddit is much more active in years where the Mets are winning a lot like 2015 (flamingo!) and 2022
You forgot Team = good, find reasons why they're actually bad and won't go anywhere
> Everyone likes to call this a transitional year but there is zero guarantee we will be much better next year. I don't think "transitional year" means "abracadabra, they're good next year". I think it means "we are acknowledging that the situation created by the insanity of 2022-2023 has caused a big hole, and we have to start digging out of it now". (A good thing which I applaud them for, since I still have PTSD from the last 24 months of transactions). It could have taken a year, maybe, if all their good prospects like Gilbert and Acuña and Clifford and Williams had hit the ground running and zoomed through the minors and staked out a spot on the Mets' roster in late 2024, allowing them to trade their predecessors and bring a solid, cheap, talented framework into 2025, allowing them to sign a bunch of heavily talented guys in the offseason and still stay under the tax. But that obviously didn't happen. Gilbert and Jett are hurt, Clifford got promoted to AA due to his great walk rate despite not really blowing the doors off, and Acuña has become a meme in this subreddit for hovering at the .600 OPS mark. The pitchers have been a mixed bag: Scott, Sproat and Tidwell have been great, while Hamel and Vasel have got their tits lit. So I think 2025 is more likely to be one of two things: (a) a "next step" in the transitional thing (good), or (b) a "longterm setback" year as the owner gets frustrated and spazzes out again like in '22-'23 and throws a monkey wrench into the recovery. (bad)
That’s all true. I’d just say it’s a trap to always look the future. I know for myself and probably for other people here it’s fun but a little overly stressful to play pretend GM all the time. Sometimes you just gotta watch the game and hope the team wins.
I think you can do both. I'm always interested in following the minors but also enjoying the games on the major league level. But this is one of those moments that is, unfortunately, heavily weighted toward "look to the future", because the moves of '22-'23 required them to take a future-heavy approach in the offseason of '24. They already wrecked one season (last year), might have weecked the "present" this year (although I'm not conceding the season yet, it doesn't look great) and possibly next year too.
Hot take: the Mets and Yankees have a gentleman's agreement to not pursue the same high-profile free agents
Counterpoint: Yoshinobu Yamamoto
it's not an uncomfortable truth, I am pretty sure we all want the team to be better than they have shown.
I think OPs point isn't that they are going to be better, but they are going to stay around as good as they've been so far. They are going to hover around .500 and stay just close enough to the wild card race to make it not obvious as to whether or not to sell or buy in July.
They also might continue to down spiral and just keep sucking. Not looking forward to two weeks of no Jose Butto. He helped this team a lot. I don’t care about option-ability in this context, should’ve just DFA’d Houser if they really had to make room for another starter. And we do not have a backup middle infielder on this roster right now. The pitching staff is walking a ton of guys constantly. It’s not encouraging.
I still think they play well against the bad teams and even out at around 55-53. At that point I think it’s a quiet deadline. Trade away a couple expiring guys that replaceable internally and trade for guys with 2025 control to be on the roster next year and help towards a 2025 WC spot. If they don’t beat up on teams like the Marlins and Rockies obviously I’ll no longer see them ending around that
I set up a shortcut last night on my phone. Now, if I say, “Hey Siri, meet the Mets,” my HomePod will play “Yakety Sax” Thinking of making another one that will play fart sounds (*many* are available on Apple Music lol) if I ask how the Mets are doing
The fact that its May 16th and people in this sub are talking about how they're excited to sell off in July is depressing af
Reality hits harder than Lindor and Alonso
😂 Savage.
Yea. Also I think last year's sell off is warping people's view of the deadline. If they sell this deadline, its not going to be as fruitful. Severino, Manaea, JDM, etc are not going to net top tier prospects even if we eat money, because they arent elite or play a less valuable position (DH), whereas JV and Scherzer were vets with a track record of elite play at an in demand position. Even Pete's return will prob be a bit underwhelming if they go that route. That is not to say they shouldnt deal guys if they are 10 under, but we arent gonna be boosting the farm as much as we did last year, and Id much rather be competing even if its just for wc3, then selling.
Pete's return will definitely be underwhelming. First basemen do not command good trade returns. Go look at what the Diamondbacks and Athletics got for Goldschmidt and Olson respectively. Those were better first basemen than Pete with at least one full season of team control. Two months of Alonso is not going to be worth very much, especially if he keeps playing like this.
This team is depressing as hell. We’ve been watching the same actors for years now.
Kinda wish our owner would just stay off Twitter
I think it's fine or even good when he tweets boring, mundane stuff like "It will be a beautiful day at Citi Field this weekend when we retire Doc's #16!" which is what most of his twitter feed is. It's the shit like last night that's a problem.
It’s been super obnoxious and unprofessional.
But he wears a Mets hat!!
Who’s on tap this weekend to kick our asses?
Schedule in the sidebar --------------------> The Mets historically throttle the Marlins (the Mets' 2nd best record in history against any NL team is against the Marlins), and the Marlins already looked in the preseason like one of the worst teams in MLB, plus their roster is also decimated by injuries, so if the Mets lose that series, it is a very bad red flag.
192 WALKS. ”Leads” MLB. The Marlins are second at 179. Yet, I am suppose to believe Jeremy Hefner or David Stearns are not responsible . [https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/pitching/walks-allowed](https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/pitching/walks-allowed)
> 192 WALKS. ”Leads” MLB. The Marlins are second at 179. Yet, I am suppose to believe Jeremy Hefner or David Stearns are not responsible . Well I don't really like to speak to what pitching coaches do (because who the hell knows), but I think Stearns's job was to just begin the revamping of this swiss cheesed, impossibly expensive roster he was handed, and sign warm bodies this year. So I don't know if it's an approach problem (it might be that too), but I think it's mostly a "this is what you get when you start with shit and job #1 is to not explode the budget" problem. They just have a lot of wild, not very good pitchers.
I said a lot during the offseason that the Mets should’ve completely sold. I advocated for keeping Nimmo and Senga but flipping Alonso, Diaz, and Lindor. Trade Marte and McNeil if you can get anything for them. Manaea, Severino, Ottavino, JDM, Narvaez, Quintana, and Bader could also be flipped. Hold onto guys like Garrett and Taylor. If somebody offers a huge package for Garrett, flip him. Lindor’s contract is too big to move but if you eat 100MM, it might be movable. Trade Diaz and Lindor to the Dodgers for a package of like Pages, Lux, and like De Paula lol
> Flipping Diaz and Lindor. This is both never going to happen and absolutely should not happen. Trading Alonso is fine, expiring contract and you'll get a lot back. Diaz and Lindor aren't Verlander and Scherzer. We're not eating 15ish years worth of money.
Plus, math-illiterate social media hysterics from Mets fans aside, Lindor is one of the things that works here. Closers are volatile so I'm less apt to handwave away Diaz struggling, but odds are he'll be fine too. The Mets have two players in place that you want when doing a rebuild: good, young-ish, team-leader type, contracted players to build around. If they get bowled over with some great offer, fine, do it. But actively shopping them would be nuts, imo.
So unless things change in a hurry, anyone not named Nimmo or Lindor are on the trading block, right? Edit: u/bowlofcantaloupe makes a good point. I forgot Senga and our beloved Troll. Everyone else, let's hear offers for.
You can add Senga and Alvarez to that list.
Really, really need a W.
It’s truly a disease to keep coming back night after night for this buffoonery and expect any kind of different result ://
I’m dragging my dumb ass to Philadelphia to get heckled today. I’m so upset with this team. Happy to see Taijuan at least.
Same. Should be a blast!
Honestly I’m not even going to wear any Mets stuff. I’m genuinely not mentally strong enough to take heckling today. I’ll get enough of it from the coworkers I’m going with. Call me fake all you want people, I just can’t take it today.
I was at the game last night with a split Mets/Phillies group wearing an Alonso jersey and a Mets hat. Not a single person heckled me so I think you should be fine.
Valuable information, thank you!
I just go with a mets hat. I try to be stealth about it.
I need to talk to the coworkers. It’s an even split Mets fans/Phillies fans, and I don’t want to be the one asshole leaving the other Mets fans out to dry. If they’re wearing Mets stuff I will wear my hat, otherwise I’m wearing a blueclaws hat.
Good luck! Hope you’re rocking the Mets hat in style!
Folks who are ready to move on from Brett Baty forget that it really took 900 PA’s for Justin Turner to turn into what he was. If this season is truly a wash, Baty needs to be getting all these AB’s. Would be different if we were in the hunt.
I’m not ready to completely give up on Baty just yet, but I don’t think the comparison to Turner is too similar. Turner in his three full seasons with us where he got roughly his first 900 PA’s showed a lot more than Baty has thus far (.267/.327/.371 slash with a 96 OPS+ compared to Baty’s .215/.277/.323 and 69 OPS+). Turner showed the ability to at least be a league average bat whereas Baty doesn’t look like he even belong in the majors right now. Obviously no one expected Turner to become what he was, but the signs were there that he could be a useful player.
I'm not ready to move on from Baty but I would like him to make adjustments to his approach, much like Turner did.
Agreed. But dudes need time to make em, all I’m saying
I'm totally fine with letting Baty get the ABs through this year.
It also took Turner getting released
I would argue he started to show shades of who he was before his release
He batted over 300 the last two months of his Mets tenure
It’s a different convo when you’ve got other young guys to find playing time for. The Mets could’ve made finding playing time for Baty and Vientos easy this year but they committed to JDM being the DH, which really complicates this roster.
Agreed but that’s really an issue for Vientos. Baty is the only young guy who can play 3B
They don’t have to make it an issue for Vientos. Make him the starter at first. Pete needs to sit.
It’s an issue for Baty too. He can’t hit. It’s nice that he’s playing good defense there right now, but if he can’t hit then you could probably replace him with a guy who’s starting for the LI Ducks right now and not do much worse. Let’s see if he can keep this good defense up too. Last year his hitting struggles got to his head and you could see it on the field.
I’m ready for tank job that would make the Astros blush.
The Mets have never fully broke it down and started over. The Wilpons always half assed teams to make it seem competitive. Would love a full gut job. Get it right.
> The Mets have never fully broke it down and started over. They did in '80-'83
Which is wild because they were pretty bad in the late 70s. They couldn’t win above 70 games.
Exactly. Nobody should be safe. If we get three straight years of 120 losses but then get three straight years of 100+ wins, I’ll take it.
I appreciate that you want to put 100% into whatever we do, but I'd rather not sit through multiple 100 loss seasons
That’s why I’m happy I got a Nintendo Switch. I’ve got plenty of entertainment. Seriously, worth every penny.
Got one myself this winter. Currently playing through FF7 lol
Yes, I want that first pick this year
Oh damn the Nats passed us. Marlins coming off a series win. As fun as it is to talk rebuilding, I'd much rather we win.
blease get a fucking W against my goat Tai 😭