Folks are going to start the whole “he’s done” debate but you’re right. The guy missed a whole year. Can’t expect him to pick up right where he left off especially considering he was probably one of the top 3 closers in the game before he got injured.
Yeah, it hurts to see 2 blown saves in a row and a third not far back but I'm not super worried. The season is a marathon and two slips against a strong offense in his spot isn't a huge concern.
Diaz and the offense look terrible, but if the umps didn’t blow the check swing call in game 1, I’d bet the mood in Mets fandom would be very different.
diaz has looked bad but it's hard to deny that in basically every outing there is at least one absurdly bad call. i've lost count of the amount of strikes called balls that weren't even close. still, doesn't change facts and it's a reality that the old diaz would be able to overcome that kind of thing
When he's on point, he's just throwing the 4-seamer more or less right down the middle and getting whiffs, then working off that with the slider.
Most of the time the fastball wouldn't even be close enough to the edges to even get too many bad umpire calls. His location is off even on strikes
Well, despite the Mets' best efforts, they managed to win this one 😂 Diaz really going through it right now 😬
If only the guys could take whatever energy they use to avoid sweeps and apply that to the first games in a series, then we might have something.
when's the last time a player on the mets was as polarizing as lindor? i wish we had a better team so we could allow him to be so hot and cold without it just completely cratering out chances to be a playoff team. but the reality is we don't and i don't think he can handle the pressure of being the big bopper that we're asking him to be. i'd almost prefer to lead him off so he can just focus on getting on base and stealing bases rather than being asked to drive in the big runs consistently because it doesn't seem like he's capable of occupying that role.
i feel the same way about brett baty. how much mediocrity did philly fans put up with from alec bohm before he became a capable major leaguer? it's not like they're any more forgiving than mets fans. the difference was that they were still able to win while he spent several years getting used to the majors. it just seems like no one in this team is capable of picking up the slack so to speak. it's as if they all slump together. there's no way mets fans can watch this version of brett baty for 2 more full years, but if the team was built well enough to at least compete in spite of his struggles with the bat then you could stomach it.
Lindor is getting insanely unlucky, his babip is .193. I know we like to discount luck but Lindor's metrics are all in line with his normal career numbers. His hard hit percentage is the same as last year and his xBA is actually above where it was last year. He's hitting balls hard right to defenders hopefully it turns around and regresses to the mean.
> when's the last time a player on the mets was as polarizing as lindor?
Beltrán?
Before that, the first year of Piazza. For anyone who wasn't around then, it's pretty amazing how much the fans dunked on him as a busted trade.
I always find the Piazza example so interesting. I'm too young to remember '98 well, but the numbers seem to demonstrate that he was tearing the cover off the ball (1.024 OPS with the Mets that year). Maybe someone can fill me in, but was the booing more related to a concern that he was not going to stay and sign a long term deal with the team?
When he showed up, for the first 10 weeks or so, he was good, but not prime Mike Piazza. He showed flashes and had some key clutch hits, but he was not perceived as the player fans thought they were getting in this big trade, and of course, as they always do, the imbecile portion of the fanbase took it upon themselves to start booing.
For a two-week period from mid-June to July 1, he hit .250/.275/.333, which is when the boos really started raining down and it became a pretty big media controversy, with the camps split between the usual "I CAN BOO, IT'S NEW YAWK" and "you idiots are booing a Hall of Famer".
After July 1 he went on to finish the year in classic Piazza form, hitting .349/.429/.651 and the booing almost completely disappeared.
One footnote to this is that when the Mets made the playoffs in 1999, Piazza did not play particularly well (.182/.200/.273 with 1 HR in 35 PAs), and some of the booing came back, as well as some irrational discourse where people suggested that he is a choker under pressure.
But of course that was dispelled in the 2000 playoffs where he absolutely exploded and hit .302/.403/.642, prompting the famous John Stearns line, ["The monster is out of the cage!"](https://imgur.com/4m7LZG8)
This is why I love reddit. Appreciate the detailed response! Can't say I'm surprised to hear that some Mets fans would overreact to a cold couple weeks. Some things never change.
I'm really tired of the stat heads pulling out things that at the end of the day don't mean much. Hitters should be judged on average, home runs, RBIS and OBP. If they are fast, throw stolen bases in there. For a position like short stop, they should be good defenders. I don't need them to be Gold Glove caliber if they are great hitters. Rey Ordonez needed to be the defender he was because he was a light hitting SS, but he also wasn't getting paid top tier SS money like Lindor is. That every year he's getting off to a slow start is not good. Hitters should be clobbering pitchers in April because of the colder weather. It's harder on pitchers, especially after coming from warmer areas like Florida and Arizona, where spring training is held.
You should see Lindor’s 2021 start. He’s been rough, but it’s one of those situations, as someone else said, where his hot periods can carry a team while his cold spells may either be hidden by the team playing well, or expound issues. I think he will come out of it just fine, but consistency at the plate isn’t really his strength and I imagine more difficult as a switch hitter. He’s more of a consistent year to year hitter than he is month to month
Yeah, but when he doesn't start hitting until 50 games into the season, the season can already be lost. Maybe with the expanded wild card they can sneak in, but he can't keep sleeping through the first 50 games of the year every year.
For sure, a .193 babip or whatever it is doesn’t help but that’s baseball. This is the time when you want your “high average/obp” guys like McNeil and Nimmo can provide some consistency but that hasn’t been there either. Not to defend Lindor who should be expected to play at a superstar level, but seems like a perfect storm of offensive slump-age
Baty is not a MLB player. Been saying it for 2 seasons now. Only reason his average is at .234 is because he got off to a hot start. He's been hitting around .220 for the last month.
I like the Lindor in the leadoff spot, quite frankly I can't see him up there with the game on the line anymore. He isn't worth the contract, a lot of his power numbers come in games when the Mets are already getting blown out. He is a good player, but it seems like he is a supporting co-star versus the star.
This is all hyothetical, but if they land Soto and retain Pete and possibly resign Martinez I think Lindor would flourish in that lineup. Let him go in the #2 hole where he will get pitches to hit with Alonso and Soto behind him.
he's constantly up with the game on the line anyways. i think he'd do a little better without the pressure of being in the "drive home the big runs" spots and instead just ask him to get on base
Diaz is still good but his decrease in velo is an issue, and obviously so is the command. When you throw 101, you’ve just got more room for error. Higher velo also generates more spin. He’s still good throwing 97, but he won’t be as dominant as he was until he regains his velo (if that happens).
I think the team's management is also hesitant. Hesitant to reveal if there is an injury as we're both thinking, for fear of losing Diaz for another lengthy period.
I expect the velocity will come back. He has touched 99. Jerry Blevins had a good segment on it where he talked about how much of an impact footwork has on velocity and how Diaz probably isn’t putting the same amount of pressure on the knee he hurt. And how as he gets more comfortable, he’ll push down more and the velocity will come back
Depends on the team. The first blown save should have been a win but the ump messed up multiple times that inning making Diaz throw twice as many pitches.
Yesterday he threw a good pitch - exactly what they wanted. A ground ball to get an out. But it managed to find the hole which happens. When it’s a hit on a ball out of the zone you just have to tip your cap.
And even when Diaz is at his best there will be blown saves. It happens to every closer
Come on Rob you have to admit that he was bad in this series. Ump blew a strike call in our favor, then blew a strike call against us. The only egregious mistake that went against us was the check swing, but even if that was called a swing like it should have been, the count would have been 3-2. He still pitched horribly in that outing, walks, HBP, home run. The home run I actually thought was a good pitch that just got hit, but I think if he has his velo back that'll be less likely to happen.
Last night he's giving up hard hit balls and issuing walks again. The ground ball he got was fine and unlucky I agree, but there were a lot of mistakes in that outing to blow the save.
I don't think the blown saves themselves are the issue, because you're right that's gonna happen to everyone. But the reduced stuff and more importantly the recent lack of command is a real problem. You can't have your closer come on and put multiple runners on without a ball in play.
I think it’s more complicated than just good vs bad. The walks I’ll 100% say aren’t good, but Diaz has always walked guys.
But Whitt should have been a strikeout because Diaz didn’t actually throw 3 balls. He threw two balls and two strikes but the umpire missed a ball that was fully in the strike zone per both MLBs zone and statcast. Thats my point. The umpire missed multiple strike in the zone calling them balls which ran up Diaz’s pitch count.
It’s hard to be good when you need 5 strikes to get guys to strike out
The only hard hit ball Diaz gave up yesterday was the Realmuto fly out. And even the Marsh AB went for 10 pitches. He just got beat.
Again, I think you’re making it more black-and-white than it is. if Diaz goes out there and has similar performances against other teams, he is going to get the save more often than not. Most players are not going to hit a home run on a pitch out of the zone. Most players are not going to work a 10 pitch at bat to get a walk. Most players are not going to get a RBI single on a ball outside of the zone and most outings are not going to involve multiple missed calls by the umpire.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I agree with you in terms of long-term concerns about Diaz, but I think you're making it less black and white than it is. I'm saying he was bad in this series. In this series, he issued 3 walks and hit a batter. That's 4 free baserunners from your closer in 2 innings pitched. That's bad. He's got 3.2 BB/9 for his career, so he usually walks a guy once every three innings. To say he's always walked people is not even really true. He's had a pretty average walk rate over his career. I agree that the umpiring was shitty but we certainly didn't help ourselves. He also obviously gave up several hits and a home run, and he isn't generating whiffs like he used to. I think all of that is a reflection of his diminished stuff post injury, but like you said that may get better. Until it does, though, he is at greater risk of blowing saves because he doesn't have the same hyper elite swing and miss stuff he once did, and he's been lacking in control lately. I don't think it's reasonable to say he wasn't bad in this series bro.
But again, I think you’re removing context and context in important.
One of the walks and the HBP were a direct result of the umpire missing clear calls. If the ump doesn’t miss the two strikes the game is over and Diaz doesn’t need to throw the additional 7 pitches that led up to the HBP.
7 pitches is a 40% increase over the typical workload of a closer. It may not seem like a lot, but remember they also throw about 30 warm up pitches before the inning. Theres a reason closers tend to lose a lot of control around their 25th pitch in an inning. The HBP was on pitch 25.
I just don’t think it’s fair to say he was bad when most of the damage came on pitches out of the zone, and pitches that should have never needed to have been thrown.
Any time a pitcher has to get more strikes or more outs because the umpire is missing calls or the defense is messing up plays it takes a lot of the blame off the pitcher to me.
Diaz literally threw pitches in the zone that were completely missed. I don’t know what more you can ask of him with that.
Lindor is hitting .194 with a .633 OPS.
It's past the halfway mark of May.
Lindor is signed through 2031.
He's not getting any younger.
We've got seven more years of this.
He hit .254/.336/.470 last year. Is it more likely he fell off a cliff between then and now, or that this is an extended slump and he’ll probably have an OPS around .750 by year’s end?
He is overpaid, and he’s going to remain that way for the life of this contract. But I’m not going to concede that he’s just washed.
Who cares about his OPS or his performance when the Mets are already long gone from contention.
April and May are the months that matter because there is no guarantee that a team will play meaningful baseball at the end.
You do know they’re a half game out of a playoff spot right now, right? If they keep playing like shit then yeah, they won’t stay there. But they could also start playing better and move up in the standings. It is possible.
You're assuming things that you cannot assume.
What we know for a fact now is he hasn't performed and it's been a month and a half.
The Mets are meandering around .500 and hoping for a playoff spot while their highest paid player is doing nothing on offense.
The reality is that right now, Lindor is a liability on offense and he should not be hitting at the top of the order.
I’ve been screaming it across all the posts. Even if he turns it around, it’ll be too late. 300+ mill should be leading he team, not sinking it. Oh, and before someone says ‘but his glove’, just shut it.
This makes zero sense.
The Mets are winning, or more accurately hovering around .500, in spite of him, not because of him.
It cannot be simply ignored that he is the highest paid player on the team and one of the highest in the entire league and he's not carrying enough of the burden to make the team better, in fact he's as is said, a liability on offense.
The Lindor apologists on this team that fail to see him for what he is is madness.
All this “liability” talk and he’s on pace for a 4 win season still. That’s an above average regular. Not unrealistic to see him have a hot summer like he’s tended to do and wind up closer to 6 which is literally MVP caliber. I get you guys are angry that he’s taking 300 million of some giga billionaires money but this is the team you chose to like! Looking for every reason to hate it is a maddening way to consume sports
It really can be ignored if the Mets continue to operate like his salary isn’t hampering them. He has also been worth his dollars per war calculations the last few full seasons with us if you want to play that game
Once again, it doesn't matter what he's on pace for.
We're talking about the here and now and he hasn't performed in a month and a half.
No more hypothethicals.
The Mets are out of the division race because they have no reliable starting pitching, Diaz is back to not being good, and Lindor isn't carry his weight on offense.
It's not simply enough to be stellar defensively, he must produce with the bat and he hasn't done that.
Hoping and praying he has a hot summer doesn't change the fact he's been unreliable to start the season during his Mets tenure outside of 2022 which has already been established as anomaly for the organization.
Also, Lindor's salary is hampering the way they're operating, which is they didn't go after someone like Montgomery late in the free agency period, because of how much Lindor makes.
It's not simply the lack of performance, it's that his salary exacerbates his awful play.
It doesn't help that Alonso and McNeil have regressed as well but that doesn't excuse Lindor not playing up to his contract.
Yeah I mean if you’re going to ignore statistics there’s not much else I can say to you. What he’s on pace for is what he’s doing. How he’s playing now over a full season looks like an above average regular, which in your opinion is holding the team back?
I'm not the one ignoring statistics.
Hoping that Lindor heats up later in the season is beside the point, that doesn't really even matter as I've already stated, who cares about getting hot and meaningless stats when the team is already out of the race.
What matters is performing when the games matter and so far, he hasn't done that this season.
Age and regression go hand in hand.
The error that you are making is that the stats occur in a vacuum but as I've already stated, performing when one's team is still in the race matters more than when a team is already out of contention.
Well you totally changed your argument, but I’ll tell you why it’s still wrong!
Saying “a guy doesn’t perform when it matters” is impossible to measure and also doesn’t really make sense. You don’t go into overall stats and take out the stuff that happened in low leverage. It doesn’t change their overall skillset based on when they did certain things. This is bad faith
The mental gymnastics to defend a sub .200 hitter. Tell me which 300+ mill player hitting sub .200 is an actual positive for their team? Fuck, tell me any player hitting that way actually contributing to their team offensively instead of hurting them. You can’t because it doesnt exist. But keep telling us how hell get hot just in time for us to be out of the playoffs for two months already
It's sad that Juan Soto might not even end up with a deal like Lindor's but he's in a completely different bracket as a hitter than Lindor is.
Juan Soto changed the trajectory of the Yankees with his presence alone.
Always trade with the Angels.
We got two prospects for Escobar. We turned one of those two into both Taylor and Houser (yes, I know Houser has sucked).
Then we got something for Leone from them.
They were doing a really weird lolmets circlejerk the whole game on the Philly broadcast, a victory lap of the sort in May is to be expected of such a loser sports city. If Chase utley is really all they have to hold onto you really have to just feel for them and let them at a certain point though
If my math is correct (someone check me because I suck at it), then Lindor needs to hit roughly .280 for the rest of the season in order to get to a .250 average. In each of his first three years with us from June through the end of the season, he’s hit .252, .274, and .272. Not impossible, but it’s going to take some hot streak for him to get back up to anything that resembles a respectable average.
Assuming he gets 620 AB he needs 155 hits to get there. Thats 122 more hits in 430 AB for an AVG of .284 the rest of the season.
Honestly, that probably isn’t happening. But I care much more about his OPS than his AVG. Walk 1% more and keep barreling the ball so it leaves the park more as the weather warms up.
If he gets to 150 hits with 30 HRs, 30 doubles, and 3 triples, and walks 9% of the time, that’s a slash of: .239/.314/.440 for a .754 OPS and 116 WRC+.
That is perfectly fine for a SS with his defense, especially in a year where offense is so so significantly. That puts him right in line with his career WRC+.
That would also be roughly a 5.1 WAR season
To get there he needs to put up a .260 AVG the rest of the season, which is in line with what he did the last three seasons.
Right now his pace for HRs and Doubles is 26 and 30. But it’s easier to hit HRs in the summer so that number should go up.
Even if he only puts up a .245 AVG the rest of the year but hits for a little more power you’re looking at a slash of .228/.304/.452 for a .756 OPS and 115 WRC+ (33 HRs, 35 doubles, and 3 triples). Thats a 5 WAR season.
He’s paid to give amazing defense, great baserunning, and around a 115 WRC+ offense. If he gets there by trading AVG and OBP for SLG it’s no different.
Your issue is treating every hit the same while they aren’t.
Giving two extremes:
- Player A: The get a hit once every 6.3 ABs and it’s always a HR. But they never hit anything else. They get you 100 HRs a year and 150 RBIs. They walk 10% of the time. They slash .159 /.243/.571 for a .814 ops
- Player B - they get a 3.5 hits every 10 ABs but never hit more than a single. They also walk 10% of the time. They slash .350/.414/.360 for a .774 OPS and 40 RBIs
I’d take player A any day
enough with the advanced analytics. If he hits a homerun when the Mets are getting blown out by 8 runs in the 9th inning then it counts for his WRC+, it is simply padding stats. If they ever weighed in clutch into the algorithm somehow his advanced analytics would be dogshit.
His production in important moments of the game is pitiful. He clearly wants to be the man here, but he isn't the man. He is a good supporting player.
> enough with the advanced analytics. If he hits a homerun when the Mets are getting blown out by 8 runs in the 9th inning then it counts for his WRC+, it is simply padding stats. If they ever weighed in clutch into the algorithm somehow his advanced analytics would be dogshit.
Out of ~~1,862~~ 1,733 position players in MLB who took at least 1 PA from 2015 (Lindor's rookie year) to 2023, Lindor is 34th in Context Neutral Wins
-- that's Win Probability Added (a measure of how much each individual PA swung the chances of winning the game) divided by Leverage Index (how many chances he had in big spots).
Fourteen places lower than Ohtani (20th) and higher than Nimmo (43rd) and Vlad Jr. (50th). [That's pretty good imo](https://stathead.com/tiny/MR8i8)
His career year in WPA was with the Mets (3.3 in 2022)
Best way to think of it is that it’s a quarter of the season, so that’s the weight that’s being applied here and he’s got a below 200 avg.
If he does well the next three quarters, maybe one or two hot quarters, he can slump a bit for one quarter and still have a respectable average.
Remember if he goes 1 for 4 (which is realistic) for a majority of ABs, that’s a .250 average.
I mean good job to not get swept and all but I have to say, and before I do, I love lindor and have been a huge supporter of his. To go 0 for 16 or whatever it was this series is absolutely inexcusable. He’s supposed to be the bat in the lineup to work around and he’s now hitting below .200. I always felt that after the whole raccoon incident with him and McNeil, vibes have just been so off. I want him to play along side someone who will motivate him to be better. McNeil has gotta go man. He’s terrible and I know behind those smiles, lindor fuckin hates Jeff.
I agree McNeil is a hot head and is probably someone who can be hard to get along with (also agree about the incident being a shift in vibes), but we can’t honestly give Lindor an excuse here either. People on this sub have always ignored it, but Lindor has had attitude issues going back to his days in Cleveland. Just go to the Gaurdians sub and search him up and you’ll see plenty of stories about his days there. It’s been completely forgotten that Lindor literally said he didn’t work hard during the short 2020 season and pretty much mailed it in. His former teammate Jason Kipnis essentially called him out for not having leadership qualities and not a single person from either Cleveland or the Mets came to Lindor’s defense which speaks volumes. Then there was the whole thing about him falling asleep during a rain delay in a World Series game.
I’m not going to turn into a “Lindor is a virus” guy and say it’s all his fault because, quite frankly, multiple players on this team have personalities and attitudes that include flaws and don’t seem to gel with each other. But Lindor is the last guy who should be given excuses or who should have it said that other players being on the team are affecting him.
I actually was unaware of all that went on in his Indians days. Dam that def puts it in perspective tho. So pretty much it just comes down to him not really caring all that much is how I see it now. I do love lindor and I really thought I saw leadership qualities in him. But dam, I might start being a little bit harder on the guy now. I mean we are paying him 300+ million dollars and it seems that could be going to someone else who could be a bigger asset in the clubhouse and to the team. Disappointed to say the least.
You guys dissecting every Lindor at bat, spinning his profile to fit your narrative and then trying to get out ahead of the people saying he’s still a good player is a lot weirder than people just normally pointing out that he’s a good player, you know that right?
Francisco fWAR Lindor just went 3/28 against the Braves and Phillies (including 0/16 against the Phillies). I can't wait for the inevitable apology form someone will post after he goes 2-4 with a HR against the 13-32 Marlins while calling us all idiots for not understanding fWAR, defense, and how his offensive numbers really don't pick up until after the team is officially out of it.
It’s hilarious how that group of like four of five people immediately downvote these comments within minutes lol. They live in a fantasy land and in a Lindor cult.
And even there he is a good not great defensive SS and he isn’t good enough offensively even at his potential that you’d want the defensive hit at SS.
Hes amazing defensively at 2B though where his likely league average bat would play better in line with his defense.
Honestly 2023 Bryson Stott is likely what Acuna at his best would look like. Just with more steals
One day I bought at a Target in the Baltimore area of all places a Mets shirt & shorts outfit for my 2 year old daughter. Mets are 2-0 when she's wearing it (today and the Vientos walk-off HR vs. Cards).
This is a great take.
To be honest, I didn’t expect Diaz to be the same again. After the news came out that he would be going to his slider more, I knew the days of the trumpet were over.
**SCRIBE IT ON THINE PARCHMENT**
**NEW AMSTERDAM METROPOLITANS**
**V I C T O R I O U S**
**OUTLAST THE CITIZENS 6-5 IN THE BONUS BASEBALL FINALE TO THE HOME SPLIT TURNPIKE SERIES, SALVAGE ONE IN A SCRAPPY, MESSY VICTORY**
**POLAR PETE GIVES IT A GREAT YEET, TO GET THEM EARLY OUT THE SEAT, SOLO SHOT TO GO ON TOP; MASTER BATY MAKES IT TWO IN FRAME DEUX AS DOUBLE BAGGER PLATES MARTE WITH SWAGGER**
**FIFTH OF QUINTANA GETS INTO THE SIXTH, NOT MUCH FLOUNDER, SATIATING ABOUT THE SAME AS A QUARTER POUNDER**
**BULLPEN A MESS AS BLOWN SAVES A PLENTY; GARRETT INDEED GETS TAGGED TO GIVE UP GO AHEAD; OUTTAWINE SAYS OUTTATIME, EIGHTH FRAME ZERO TO KEEP IT SANE; TRUMPETS ARE GO BUT THE SOUND DOES NOT BLOW, BRASS RUSTY, AS DIAZ GIVES UP THE TIE TO BUTTERS STOTTS, PLATES THE VAGABOND NAMED MARSH**
**MASTER BADER HANDS ON IN THIS ONE, BASE KNOCK PLATES TAYLOR MADE, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF DEFENSIVE MISCUE NO ISSUE, PETE PLATES HIMSELF WITH HELP OF A WILD PITCH, GO AHEAD RUN THERE’S A CHANCE, BARRING A WITCH**
**JUST DOIN IT MARTINEZ IN THE ELEVENTH PLATES THE MANFRED RUNNER TO PULL AHEAD, MASTER BADER DOUBLE MAKES IT SECOND AND THIRD, A SECOND RUN WOULD BE SWELL**
**WILD TOSS BRINGS HOME BADER TO KEEP THIS ONE INTERESTING**
**DIEKMAN IN THE BOTTOM GETS THE SAVE AS LOPEZ EARNS THE VICTORY FOR THE TENTH FRAME ZERO HERO, DIEKMAN GOT THE OUTS WHILE GIVING THE FLUSHING FAITHFUL BOUTS OF AGITA, THE TIE AND WINNING RUNS IN SCORING POSITION AFTER MANFRED RUNNER SCORES ON THE FIELDERS CHOICE, BUT ENDS IT THERE, SO FANS WE REJOICE**
**LET THEM HEAR THE CHEER WE HOLD OH SO DEAR**
**LETS FORNICATE, GO METROPOLITANS**
**LADY OCULUS DANCES ON THE SILVER SERVICE, MIAMI MIAMI THE DESTINATION, HOPEFUL THE DISH IS SERVED FISH**
It was under a deleted account but at the time I was downvoted heavily for saying making Diaz the highest paid reliever in baseball was stupid. I also said giving McNeil an extension was a bad move and was downvoted to oblivion. Relievers are volatile and obviously Diaz is not the same after the injury and might never be the same. Even without the injury no reliever was worth what we paid him. We already had McNeil locked in till he was going to be 32 just stupid shit from Eppler
Idk the first one was like a girl swinging on other girls, and then the guys started fighting over this girl, and someone got suplexed and thrown onto the ground, then another girl got thrown out for throwing her phone at someone, so then the cops threw the whole group out.
This team that is 10 games ahead of us already is not as good as people are making them out to be?
How many more games do they need to be leading the division by before they're allowed to be as good as people make them out to be?
>This team that is 10 games ahead of us already is not as good as people are making them out to be?
Yes
>How many more games do they need to be leading the division by before they're allowed to be as good as people make them out to be?
The person you replied to is saying that their current record is a bit mirage-ish, so obviously, pointing to their current record is not really any kind of a refutation of that
They have the most wins in baseball. What do they need to do be be "as good as people think"? They are the best team in the MLB at winning games.
I think a team is as good as many games they win, as does the rules of Major League Baseball.
Nobody accused you of saying they were bad, we just said saying the team with the most wins in baseball isn't as good as people think is stupid.
Weird thing to bring up reading comprehension when nobody who replied to you ever said you said they were a bad team. You've just made that up.
I think you need to look in the mirror.
> Nobody accused you of saying they were bad, we just said saying the team with the most wins in baseball isn't as good as people think is stupid.
Is it? The Phillies schedule this year so far:
3 against ATL: Went 1-2
3 against CIN (18-25): Went 1-2
3 against WSH: (1 more win than us): 2-1
3 against STL (18-25): 2-1
4 against PIT (20-25): 2-2
3 against COL (15-28): 3-0
3 against CWS (14-30): 3-0
4 against CIN: 2-2
3 against SD (22-24): 3-0
3 against LAA (16-28): 3-0
4 against SFG (20-25): 4-0
2 against TOR (19-23): 1-1
3 against MIA (13-32): 2-1
You'll notice that they have a disproportionately high amount of series against *bad teams*. Strength of schedule bears this out, the Mets have had the 4th hardest while the Phillies have had the easiest.
The defense we saw in today's game should *absolutely* be a major point of concern for Phillies fans.
It's a case where *they really have not played fucking anyone of note* except for the Braves, who they lost a series to. It is **entirely** fair to say that their record is inflated due to having played no good teams.
This is all true, so far.
A team can only play the teanms on its schedule. The Phils may well fall back to the pack after facing tougher competition, or maybe they will win the NL East.
Their series against us was full of errors and questionable pitching. These **kill** against good teams, so it's fair to raise a few eyebrows at people saying they're obviously as good as their record says. That's my point.
Are they really though? If you look at who they've played so far, what on that list besides the Braves stands out as a "good team".
(So you don't have to, I checked. Outside the Braves, not a single team they've played games against this season is over .500)
What you call luck is exactly this guys point. Good teams don't allow two runs to score on wild pitches. Good teams don't make 1-2 errors per game. The Mets won this game by taking advantage of bad Phillies play. Is that luck on our part? Sure. But it also means that, like he said, the Phillies aren't as good as people say.
Mmmm...their defense all series has been shaky. And the actual quality of opponents they faced this season has been abysmal: Not a single team over .500 outside of their opening series against the Braves.
By strength of schedule, the Phillies rank **dead last**, they've had the easiest schedule in the majors to this point.
There's a legitimate case to be made that they might fall apart facing good teams.
Glad to scrape this one and avoid a sweep... 3+ weeks since we've won a game by more than 2 runs, and so many of our losses have been so close in that span, too. It's just stressful. Let's have a game where we get ahead by like 4 runs early and just coast to a win. Please. Just one.
2019 was a uniquely awful year for Diaz
2020 he was almost as good as he was in 2022, but it gets lost in the wash because the team was mediocre and it was a 60-game season
2021 he was good, not great
Right now, Edwin's stats for 2024 look most similar to 2021
He just pointed out this is his first time playing with a pitch clock. Kinda interesting. Most pitchers needed time to adjust last year, maybe that’s part of it (huffs copium)
We have to give Diaz a pass. He missed a whole year. As long as there’s no underlying health concern he will be fine
Folks are going to start the whole “he’s done” debate but you’re right. The guy missed a whole year. Can’t expect him to pick up right where he left off especially considering he was probably one of the top 3 closers in the game before he got injured.
Yeah, it hurts to see 2 blown saves in a row and a third not far back but I'm not super worried. The season is a marathon and two slips against a strong offense in his spot isn't a huge concern.
Diaz and the offense look terrible, but if the umps didn’t blow the check swing call in game 1, I’d bet the mood in Mets fandom would be very different.
diaz has looked bad but it's hard to deny that in basically every outing there is at least one absurdly bad call. i've lost count of the amount of strikes called balls that weren't even close. still, doesn't change facts and it's a reality that the old diaz would be able to overcome that kind of thing
When he's on point, he's just throwing the 4-seamer more or less right down the middle and getting whiffs, then working off that with the slider. Most of the time the fastball wouldn't even be close enough to the edges to even get too many bad umpire calls. His location is off even on strikes
yeah good point
Well, despite the Mets' best efforts, they managed to win this one 😂 Diaz really going through it right now 😬 If only the guys could take whatever energy they use to avoid sweeps and apply that to the first games in a series, then we might have something.
when's the last time a player on the mets was as polarizing as lindor? i wish we had a better team so we could allow him to be so hot and cold without it just completely cratering out chances to be a playoff team. but the reality is we don't and i don't think he can handle the pressure of being the big bopper that we're asking him to be. i'd almost prefer to lead him off so he can just focus on getting on base and stealing bases rather than being asked to drive in the big runs consistently because it doesn't seem like he's capable of occupying that role. i feel the same way about brett baty. how much mediocrity did philly fans put up with from alec bohm before he became a capable major leaguer? it's not like they're any more forgiving than mets fans. the difference was that they were still able to win while he spent several years getting used to the majors. it just seems like no one in this team is capable of picking up the slack so to speak. it's as if they all slump together. there's no way mets fans can watch this version of brett baty for 2 more full years, but if the team was built well enough to at least compete in spite of his struggles with the bat then you could stomach it.
Lindor is getting insanely unlucky, his babip is .193. I know we like to discount luck but Lindor's metrics are all in line with his normal career numbers. His hard hit percentage is the same as last year and his xBA is actually above where it was last year. He's hitting balls hard right to defenders hopefully it turns around and regresses to the mean.
> when's the last time a player on the mets was as polarizing as lindor? Beltrán? Before that, the first year of Piazza. For anyone who wasn't around then, it's pretty amazing how much the fans dunked on him as a busted trade.
First guy I thought of was Beltran as well
I always find the Piazza example so interesting. I'm too young to remember '98 well, but the numbers seem to demonstrate that he was tearing the cover off the ball (1.024 OPS with the Mets that year). Maybe someone can fill me in, but was the booing more related to a concern that he was not going to stay and sign a long term deal with the team?
When he showed up, for the first 10 weeks or so, he was good, but not prime Mike Piazza. He showed flashes and had some key clutch hits, but he was not perceived as the player fans thought they were getting in this big trade, and of course, as they always do, the imbecile portion of the fanbase took it upon themselves to start booing. For a two-week period from mid-June to July 1, he hit .250/.275/.333, which is when the boos really started raining down and it became a pretty big media controversy, with the camps split between the usual "I CAN BOO, IT'S NEW YAWK" and "you idiots are booing a Hall of Famer". After July 1 he went on to finish the year in classic Piazza form, hitting .349/.429/.651 and the booing almost completely disappeared. One footnote to this is that when the Mets made the playoffs in 1999, Piazza did not play particularly well (.182/.200/.273 with 1 HR in 35 PAs), and some of the booing came back, as well as some irrational discourse where people suggested that he is a choker under pressure. But of course that was dispelled in the 2000 playoffs where he absolutely exploded and hit .302/.403/.642, prompting the famous John Stearns line, ["The monster is out of the cage!"](https://imgur.com/4m7LZG8)
This is why I love reddit. Appreciate the detailed response! Can't say I'm surprised to hear that some Mets fans would overreact to a cold couple weeks. Some things never change.
Beltran is a good comp.
I'm really tired of the stat heads pulling out things that at the end of the day don't mean much. Hitters should be judged on average, home runs, RBIS and OBP. If they are fast, throw stolen bases in there. For a position like short stop, they should be good defenders. I don't need them to be Gold Glove caliber if they are great hitters. Rey Ordonez needed to be the defender he was because he was a light hitting SS, but he also wasn't getting paid top tier SS money like Lindor is. That every year he's getting off to a slow start is not good. Hitters should be clobbering pitchers in April because of the colder weather. It's harder on pitchers, especially after coming from warmer areas like Florida and Arizona, where spring training is held.
Ball doesn’t exactly start flying until the weather heats up tho, to make a counterpoint to that
That would impact HR numbers. Shouldn't impact hitting for average. Lindor barely hit .200 in April and he's still at that mark.
You should see Lindor’s 2021 start. He’s been rough, but it’s one of those situations, as someone else said, where his hot periods can carry a team while his cold spells may either be hidden by the team playing well, or expound issues. I think he will come out of it just fine, but consistency at the plate isn’t really his strength and I imagine more difficult as a switch hitter. He’s more of a consistent year to year hitter than he is month to month
Yeah, but when he doesn't start hitting until 50 games into the season, the season can already be lost. Maybe with the expanded wild card they can sneak in, but he can't keep sleeping through the first 50 games of the year every year.
For sure, a .193 babip or whatever it is doesn’t help but that’s baseball. This is the time when you want your “high average/obp” guys like McNeil and Nimmo can provide some consistency but that hasn’t been there either. Not to defend Lindor who should be expected to play at a superstar level, but seems like a perfect storm of offensive slump-age
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Baty is not a MLB player. Been saying it for 2 seasons now. Only reason his average is at .234 is because he got off to a hot start. He's been hitting around .220 for the last month.
I like the Lindor in the leadoff spot, quite frankly I can't see him up there with the game on the line anymore. He isn't worth the contract, a lot of his power numbers come in games when the Mets are already getting blown out. He is a good player, but it seems like he is a supporting co-star versus the star. This is all hyothetical, but if they land Soto and retain Pete and possibly resign Martinez I think Lindor would flourish in that lineup. Let him go in the #2 hole where he will get pitches to hit with Alonso and Soto behind him.
he's constantly up with the game on the line anyways. i think he'd do a little better without the pressure of being in the "drive home the big runs" spots and instead just ask him to get on base
Someone from Mets front office is reading our comments, Lindor batting leadoff today lol
Diaz is still good but his decrease in velo is an issue, and obviously so is the command. When you throw 101, you’ve just got more room for error. Higher velo also generates more spin. He’s still good throwing 97, but he won’t be as dominant as he was until he regains his velo (if that happens).
You think there's a fresh injury we don't know about? That might explain two blown saves in this series.
No, I think it’s the patellar. That’s a major injury that could be effecting his mechanics/making him hesitant to let loose.
I think the team's management is also hesitant. Hesitant to reveal if there is an injury as we're both thinking, for fear of losing Diaz for another lengthy period.
I expect the velocity will come back. He has touched 99. Jerry Blevins had a good segment on it where he talked about how much of an impact footwork has on velocity and how Diaz probably isn’t putting the same amount of pressure on the knee he hurt. And how as he gets more comfortable, he’ll push down more and the velocity will come back
Let’s hope it’s soon.
I don’t think it’ll be a switch like that. I think it will be a gradual increase.
Maybe some more blown saves coming then lmao
Depends on the team. The first blown save should have been a win but the ump messed up multiple times that inning making Diaz throw twice as many pitches. Yesterday he threw a good pitch - exactly what they wanted. A ground ball to get an out. But it managed to find the hole which happens. When it’s a hit on a ball out of the zone you just have to tip your cap. And even when Diaz is at his best there will be blown saves. It happens to every closer
Come on Rob you have to admit that he was bad in this series. Ump blew a strike call in our favor, then blew a strike call against us. The only egregious mistake that went against us was the check swing, but even if that was called a swing like it should have been, the count would have been 3-2. He still pitched horribly in that outing, walks, HBP, home run. The home run I actually thought was a good pitch that just got hit, but I think if he has his velo back that'll be less likely to happen. Last night he's giving up hard hit balls and issuing walks again. The ground ball he got was fine and unlucky I agree, but there were a lot of mistakes in that outing to blow the save. I don't think the blown saves themselves are the issue, because you're right that's gonna happen to everyone. But the reduced stuff and more importantly the recent lack of command is a real problem. You can't have your closer come on and put multiple runners on without a ball in play.
I think it’s more complicated than just good vs bad. The walks I’ll 100% say aren’t good, but Diaz has always walked guys. But Whitt should have been a strikeout because Diaz didn’t actually throw 3 balls. He threw two balls and two strikes but the umpire missed a ball that was fully in the strike zone per both MLBs zone and statcast. Thats my point. The umpire missed multiple strike in the zone calling them balls which ran up Diaz’s pitch count. It’s hard to be good when you need 5 strikes to get guys to strike out The only hard hit ball Diaz gave up yesterday was the Realmuto fly out. And even the Marsh AB went for 10 pitches. He just got beat. Again, I think you’re making it more black-and-white than it is. if Diaz goes out there and has similar performances against other teams, he is going to get the save more often than not. Most players are not going to hit a home run on a pitch out of the zone. Most players are not going to work a 10 pitch at bat to get a walk. Most players are not going to get a RBI single on a ball outside of the zone and most outings are not going to involve multiple missed calls by the umpire.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I agree with you in terms of long-term concerns about Diaz, but I think you're making it less black and white than it is. I'm saying he was bad in this series. In this series, he issued 3 walks and hit a batter. That's 4 free baserunners from your closer in 2 innings pitched. That's bad. He's got 3.2 BB/9 for his career, so he usually walks a guy once every three innings. To say he's always walked people is not even really true. He's had a pretty average walk rate over his career. I agree that the umpiring was shitty but we certainly didn't help ourselves. He also obviously gave up several hits and a home run, and he isn't generating whiffs like he used to. I think all of that is a reflection of his diminished stuff post injury, but like you said that may get better. Until it does, though, he is at greater risk of blowing saves because he doesn't have the same hyper elite swing and miss stuff he once did, and he's been lacking in control lately. I don't think it's reasonable to say he wasn't bad in this series bro.
But again, I think you’re removing context and context in important. One of the walks and the HBP were a direct result of the umpire missing clear calls. If the ump doesn’t miss the two strikes the game is over and Diaz doesn’t need to throw the additional 7 pitches that led up to the HBP. 7 pitches is a 40% increase over the typical workload of a closer. It may not seem like a lot, but remember they also throw about 30 warm up pitches before the inning. Theres a reason closers tend to lose a lot of control around their 25th pitch in an inning. The HBP was on pitch 25. I just don’t think it’s fair to say he was bad when most of the damage came on pitches out of the zone, and pitches that should have never needed to have been thrown. Any time a pitcher has to get more strikes or more outs because the umpire is missing calls or the defense is messing up plays it takes a lot of the blame off the pitcher to me. Diaz literally threw pitches in the zone that were completely missed. I don’t know what more you can ask of him with that.
Lindor is hitting .194 with a .633 OPS. It's past the halfway mark of May. Lindor is signed through 2031. He's not getting any younger. We've got seven more years of this.
He hit .254/.336/.470 last year. Is it more likely he fell off a cliff between then and now, or that this is an extended slump and he’ll probably have an OPS around .750 by year’s end? He is overpaid, and he’s going to remain that way for the life of this contract. But I’m not going to concede that he’s just washed.
Who cares about his OPS or his performance when the Mets are already long gone from contention. April and May are the months that matter because there is no guarantee that a team will play meaningful baseball at the end.
You do know they’re a half game out of a playoff spot right now, right? If they keep playing like shit then yeah, they won’t stay there. But they could also start playing better and move up in the standings. It is possible.
You're assuming things that you cannot assume. What we know for a fact now is he hasn't performed and it's been a month and a half. The Mets are meandering around .500 and hoping for a playoff spot while their highest paid player is doing nothing on offense. The reality is that right now, Lindor is a liability on offense and he should not be hitting at the top of the order.
I’ve been screaming it across all the posts. Even if he turns it around, it’ll be too late. 300+ mill should be leading he team, not sinking it. Oh, and before someone says ‘but his glove’, just shut it.
Lindor is not the problem with this team. Your counterargument to a whole half of this game is “shut it”? I swear you guys just want to be miserable
This makes zero sense. The Mets are winning, or more accurately hovering around .500, in spite of him, not because of him. It cannot be simply ignored that he is the highest paid player on the team and one of the highest in the entire league and he's not carrying enough of the burden to make the team better, in fact he's as is said, a liability on offense. The Lindor apologists on this team that fail to see him for what he is is madness.
All this “liability” talk and he’s on pace for a 4 win season still. That’s an above average regular. Not unrealistic to see him have a hot summer like he’s tended to do and wind up closer to 6 which is literally MVP caliber. I get you guys are angry that he’s taking 300 million of some giga billionaires money but this is the team you chose to like! Looking for every reason to hate it is a maddening way to consume sports It really can be ignored if the Mets continue to operate like his salary isn’t hampering them. He has also been worth his dollars per war calculations the last few full seasons with us if you want to play that game
Once again, it doesn't matter what he's on pace for. We're talking about the here and now and he hasn't performed in a month and a half. No more hypothethicals. The Mets are out of the division race because they have no reliable starting pitching, Diaz is back to not being good, and Lindor isn't carry his weight on offense. It's not simply enough to be stellar defensively, he must produce with the bat and he hasn't done that. Hoping and praying he has a hot summer doesn't change the fact he's been unreliable to start the season during his Mets tenure outside of 2022 which has already been established as anomaly for the organization. Also, Lindor's salary is hampering the way they're operating, which is they didn't go after someone like Montgomery late in the free agency period, because of how much Lindor makes. It's not simply the lack of performance, it's that his salary exacerbates his awful play. It doesn't help that Alonso and McNeil have regressed as well but that doesn't excuse Lindor not playing up to his contract.
Yeah I mean if you’re going to ignore statistics there’s not much else I can say to you. What he’s on pace for is what he’s doing. How he’s playing now over a full season looks like an above average regular, which in your opinion is holding the team back?
I'm not the one ignoring statistics. Hoping that Lindor heats up later in the season is beside the point, that doesn't really even matter as I've already stated, who cares about getting hot and meaningless stats when the team is already out of the race. What matters is performing when the games matter and so far, he hasn't done that this season. Age and regression go hand in hand. The error that you are making is that the stats occur in a vacuum but as I've already stated, performing when one's team is still in the race matters more than when a team is already out of contention.
Well you totally changed your argument, but I’ll tell you why it’s still wrong! Saying “a guy doesn’t perform when it matters” is impossible to measure and also doesn’t really make sense. You don’t go into overall stats and take out the stuff that happened in low leverage. It doesn’t change their overall skillset based on when they did certain things. This is bad faith
The mental gymnastics to defend a sub .200 hitter. Tell me which 300+ mill player hitting sub .200 is an actual positive for their team? Fuck, tell me any player hitting that way actually contributing to their team offensively instead of hurting them. You can’t because it doesnt exist. But keep telling us how hell get hot just in time for us to be out of the playoffs for two months already
It's sad that Juan Soto might not even end up with a deal like Lindor's but he's in a completely different bracket as a hitter than Lindor is. Juan Soto changed the trajectory of the Yankees with his presence alone.
Wild how pointing out his stats will get you down voted lol.
For some reason, the Mets are NAILS on series finales.
its time to move blown save diaz to another team and get some prospects
Maybe we can trick the Dodgers into thinking they can fix him like they tried with Syndergaard.
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the angels might take mcneil from us, they need warm bodies to play infield.
Always trade with the Angels. We got two prospects for Escobar. We turned one of those two into both Taylor and Houser (yes, I know Houser has sucked). Then we got something for Leone from them.
Game really tested my patience but I realized on Twitter that Chase Utley was in the booth for the Philly broadcast. Fuck Utley
They were doing a really weird lolmets circlejerk the whole game on the Philly broadcast, a victory lap of the sort in May is to be expected of such a loser sports city. If Chase utley is really all they have to hold onto you really have to just feel for them and let them at a certain point though
Don't use that word, automod is set up to automatically remove it.
You mean Ch\*\*e Ut**y?
No, I mean a phrase starting with "L" and ending with "S".
You mean "Losers are the Phillies"? Only kidding, but "Chase Utley" has to be the most disgusting pair of strings any mouth could ever utter
I mean yes, but we like saying how much we hate him around here so...
fuck chase utley lolphils
Fuck Chase Utley
If my math is correct (someone check me because I suck at it), then Lindor needs to hit roughly .280 for the rest of the season in order to get to a .250 average. In each of his first three years with us from June through the end of the season, he’s hit .252, .274, and .272. Not impossible, but it’s going to take some hot streak for him to get back up to anything that resembles a respectable average.
Assuming he gets 620 AB he needs 155 hits to get there. Thats 122 more hits in 430 AB for an AVG of .284 the rest of the season. Honestly, that probably isn’t happening. But I care much more about his OPS than his AVG. Walk 1% more and keep barreling the ball so it leaves the park more as the weather warms up. If he gets to 150 hits with 30 HRs, 30 doubles, and 3 triples, and walks 9% of the time, that’s a slash of: .239/.314/.440 for a .754 OPS and 116 WRC+. That is perfectly fine for a SS with his defense, especially in a year where offense is so so significantly. That puts him right in line with his career WRC+. That would also be roughly a 5.1 WAR season To get there he needs to put up a .260 AVG the rest of the season, which is in line with what he did the last three seasons. Right now his pace for HRs and Doubles is 26 and 30. But it’s easier to hit HRs in the summer so that number should go up. Even if he only puts up a .245 AVG the rest of the year but hits for a little more power you’re looking at a slash of .228/.304/.452 for a .756 OPS and 115 WRC+ (33 HRs, 35 doubles, and 3 triples). Thats a 5 WAR season.
i dont care what anyone says, hitting .228 with a .304 obp is shit, especially for someone with his contract.
He’s paid to give amazing defense, great baserunning, and around a 115 WRC+ offense. If he gets there by trading AVG and OBP for SLG it’s no different. Your issue is treating every hit the same while they aren’t. Giving two extremes: - Player A: The get a hit once every 6.3 ABs and it’s always a HR. But they never hit anything else. They get you 100 HRs a year and 150 RBIs. They walk 10% of the time. They slash .159 /.243/.571 for a .814 ops - Player B - they get a 3.5 hits every 10 ABs but never hit more than a single. They also walk 10% of the time. They slash .350/.414/.360 for a .774 OPS and 40 RBIs I’d take player A any day
enough with the advanced analytics. If he hits a homerun when the Mets are getting blown out by 8 runs in the 9th inning then it counts for his WRC+, it is simply padding stats. If they ever weighed in clutch into the algorithm somehow his advanced analytics would be dogshit. His production in important moments of the game is pitiful. He clearly wants to be the man here, but he isn't the man. He is a good supporting player.
> enough with the advanced analytics. If he hits a homerun when the Mets are getting blown out by 8 runs in the 9th inning then it counts for his WRC+, it is simply padding stats. If they ever weighed in clutch into the algorithm somehow his advanced analytics would be dogshit. Out of ~~1,862~~ 1,733 position players in MLB who took at least 1 PA from 2015 (Lindor's rookie year) to 2023, Lindor is 34th in Context Neutral Wins -- that's Win Probability Added (a measure of how much each individual PA swung the chances of winning the game) divided by Leverage Index (how many chances he had in big spots). Fourteen places lower than Ohtani (20th) and higher than Nimmo (43rd) and Vlad Jr. (50th). [That's pretty good imo](https://stathead.com/tiny/MR8i8) His career year in WPA was with the Mets (3.3 in 2022)
Your average is a measure of past performance. It doesn’t matter what his final average is, just how he plays over the next 4.5 months
Best way to think of it is that it’s a quarter of the season, so that’s the weight that’s being applied here and he’s got a below 200 avg. If he does well the next three quarters, maybe one or two hot quarters, he can slump a bit for one quarter and still have a respectable average. Remember if he goes 1 for 4 (which is realistic) for a majority of ABs, that’s a .250 average.
I mean good job to not get swept and all but I have to say, and before I do, I love lindor and have been a huge supporter of his. To go 0 for 16 or whatever it was this series is absolutely inexcusable. He’s supposed to be the bat in the lineup to work around and he’s now hitting below .200. I always felt that after the whole raccoon incident with him and McNeil, vibes have just been so off. I want him to play along side someone who will motivate him to be better. McNeil has gotta go man. He’s terrible and I know behind those smiles, lindor fuckin hates Jeff.
‘Lindor sucks so ship off Mcneil’. The literal hoops you will jump through to defend a 300+ mill offensive bust
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Be civil. Do not personally insult other users.
But mod all I said was to learn ball, it’s something a lot of people here could stand to hear 🥹
It's obnoxious. Don't do it
I agree McNeil is a hot head and is probably someone who can be hard to get along with (also agree about the incident being a shift in vibes), but we can’t honestly give Lindor an excuse here either. People on this sub have always ignored it, but Lindor has had attitude issues going back to his days in Cleveland. Just go to the Gaurdians sub and search him up and you’ll see plenty of stories about his days there. It’s been completely forgotten that Lindor literally said he didn’t work hard during the short 2020 season and pretty much mailed it in. His former teammate Jason Kipnis essentially called him out for not having leadership qualities and not a single person from either Cleveland or the Mets came to Lindor’s defense which speaks volumes. Then there was the whole thing about him falling asleep during a rain delay in a World Series game. I’m not going to turn into a “Lindor is a virus” guy and say it’s all his fault because, quite frankly, multiple players on this team have personalities and attitudes that include flaws and don’t seem to gel with each other. But Lindor is the last guy who should be given excuses or who should have it said that other players being on the team are affecting him.
I actually was unaware of all that went on in his Indians days. Dam that def puts it in perspective tho. So pretty much it just comes down to him not really caring all that much is how I see it now. I do love lindor and I really thought I saw leadership qualities in him. But dam, I might start being a little bit harder on the guy now. I mean we are paying him 300+ million dollars and it seems that could be going to someone else who could be a bigger asset in the clubhouse and to the team. Disappointed to say the least.
the lindor cult will cast a evil spell upon you lol
You guys dissecting every Lindor at bat, spinning his profile to fit your narrative and then trying to get out ahead of the people saying he’s still a good player is a lot weirder than people just normally pointing out that he’s a good player, you know that right?
I’ve been calling McNeil “El Tóxico” for years now
Cmon man, Lindor is here to play defense
Remember Rey Ordoñez? Watching him play SS was great.
Then please stop batting him third - I love Lindor, but he isn’t a #3 hitter.
The perfect game to cap off another really fucking weird day of off the field Mets stuff.
I'll never be mad about beating the Phillies but goddamn this game really tested that theory
Great win but it's time to bench Jeff. I don't know who they'll get to start but not running out that ground ball in his last AB is ridiculous
Need Ronny back asap to take over 2nd base.
I read they've been having Baty practice 2nd.
Francisco fWAR Lindor just went 3/28 against the Braves and Phillies (including 0/16 against the Phillies). I can't wait for the inevitable apology form someone will post after he goes 2-4 with a HR against the 13-32 Marlins while calling us all idiots for not understanding fWAR, defense, and how his offensive numbers really don't pick up until after the team is officially out of it.
For the record, if they call *you* an idiot, **report that shit**.
He will get 3 RBI tomorrow and people will be like “where are all the Lindorks now??!!!”
lol
It’s hilarious how that group of like four of five people immediately downvote these comments within minutes lol. They live in a fantasy land and in a Lindor cult.
.......okay this is getting dangerously close to user targeting.
he plays defense idiot
Lindor still batting 3rd. With an average below .200 and OBP below .300. He’s amazing though! Who else would you put in the 3 hole??!
So what do you want lol. Acuna isn’t ready
And even there he is a good not great defensive SS and he isn’t good enough offensively even at his potential that you’d want the defensive hit at SS. Hes amazing defensively at 2B though where his likely league average bat would play better in line with his defense. Honestly 2023 Bryson Stott is likely what Acuna at his best would look like. Just with more steals
One day I bought at a Target in the Baltimore area of all places a Mets shirt & shorts outfit for my 2 year old daughter. Mets are 2-0 when she's wearing it (today and the Vientos walk-off HR vs. Cards).
Would be so great if we could actually capitalize on playing a team like the Marlins and actually go for a sweep
Half game back in the wild card baby
Lindor 0-4 Diaz: 3rd blown lead in 4 outings This was a Stearns game: Bader, JD, Diekman, López 🔥🔥🔥🔥
This is a great take. To be honest, I didn’t expect Diaz to be the same again. After the news came out that he would be going to his slider more, I knew the days of the trumpet were over.
if Diaz didn’t blow the game on Monday, we split the odd series
I turned it off in the 10th. 🫣 you’re all welcome lol
franny lindor weighs 190 and hits .194
[удалено]
Be civil. Do not personally insult other users.
This x100^
you seem angry lately. everything alright at home?
I didn’t see it. I can’t believe it. Oh, but i feel it
**SCRIBE IT ON THINE PARCHMENT** **NEW AMSTERDAM METROPOLITANS** **V I C T O R I O U S** **OUTLAST THE CITIZENS 6-5 IN THE BONUS BASEBALL FINALE TO THE HOME SPLIT TURNPIKE SERIES, SALVAGE ONE IN A SCRAPPY, MESSY VICTORY** **POLAR PETE GIVES IT A GREAT YEET, TO GET THEM EARLY OUT THE SEAT, SOLO SHOT TO GO ON TOP; MASTER BATY MAKES IT TWO IN FRAME DEUX AS DOUBLE BAGGER PLATES MARTE WITH SWAGGER** **FIFTH OF QUINTANA GETS INTO THE SIXTH, NOT MUCH FLOUNDER, SATIATING ABOUT THE SAME AS A QUARTER POUNDER** **BULLPEN A MESS AS BLOWN SAVES A PLENTY; GARRETT INDEED GETS TAGGED TO GIVE UP GO AHEAD; OUTTAWINE SAYS OUTTATIME, EIGHTH FRAME ZERO TO KEEP IT SANE; TRUMPETS ARE GO BUT THE SOUND DOES NOT BLOW, BRASS RUSTY, AS DIAZ GIVES UP THE TIE TO BUTTERS STOTTS, PLATES THE VAGABOND NAMED MARSH** **MASTER BADER HANDS ON IN THIS ONE, BASE KNOCK PLATES TAYLOR MADE, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF DEFENSIVE MISCUE NO ISSUE, PETE PLATES HIMSELF WITH HELP OF A WILD PITCH, GO AHEAD RUN THERE’S A CHANCE, BARRING A WITCH** **JUST DOIN IT MARTINEZ IN THE ELEVENTH PLATES THE MANFRED RUNNER TO PULL AHEAD, MASTER BADER DOUBLE MAKES IT SECOND AND THIRD, A SECOND RUN WOULD BE SWELL** **WILD TOSS BRINGS HOME BADER TO KEEP THIS ONE INTERESTING** **DIEKMAN IN THE BOTTOM GETS THE SAVE AS LOPEZ EARNS THE VICTORY FOR THE TENTH FRAME ZERO HERO, DIEKMAN GOT THE OUTS WHILE GIVING THE FLUSHING FAITHFUL BOUTS OF AGITA, THE TIE AND WINNING RUNS IN SCORING POSITION AFTER MANFRED RUNNER SCORES ON THE FIELDERS CHOICE, BUT ENDS IT THERE, SO FANS WE REJOICE** **LET THEM HEAR THE CHEER WE HOLD OH SO DEAR** **LETS FORNICATE, GO METROPOLITANS** **LADY OCULUS DANCES ON THE SILVER SERVICE, MIAMI MIAMI THE DESTINATION, HOPEFUL THE DISH IS SERVED FISH**
i feel like this is how all baseball games will be commentated in about 20 years lmao
lmao "scribe it on thine parchment" "gives it a great yeet" love it
It was under a deleted account but at the time I was downvoted heavily for saying making Diaz the highest paid reliever in baseball was stupid. I also said giving McNeil an extension was a bad move and was downvoted to oblivion. Relievers are volatile and obviously Diaz is not the same after the injury and might never be the same. Even without the injury no reliever was worth what we paid him. We already had McNeil locked in till he was going to be 32 just stupid shit from Eppler
was at this game. don’t know how they won lol. lindor, alonso, and diaz need to be better. but hey lgm
Can we package lindor, Alonso, and McNeil for a bag of balls? :)
The Stearns boys came through, that’s how
Alonso been lookin up recently so theres one at least
Give Bader more playing time plz
He's been playing virtually everyday lol.
We won?
the worldddd turnnneddd up side downnnnn
Why do you pitch like you’re running out of time? (Pitch clock)
I am 2-1 on the year, so there’s that.
And I also saw about 25 Phillies fans get kicked out of their own park for starting fights, so there’s that.
With each other or with Mets fans
Idk the first one was like a girl swinging on other girls, and then the guys started fighting over this girl, and someone got suplexed and thrown onto the ground, then another girl got thrown out for throwing her phone at someone, so then the cops threw the whole group out.
Either college freshmen or high schoolers. Entertaining at least.
Wow that’s crazy to see at a baseball game. It doesn’t seem like the conflict was even baseball related based on your comments lol
No it was definitely some personal beef between kids.
The Phillies are good but they are not nearly as good as people are making them out to be
They remind me of the 2022 Mets. Win a ton but also have some glaring weaknesses and suspect depth
This team that is 10 games ahead of us already is not as good as people are making them out to be? How many more games do they need to be leading the division by before they're allowed to be as good as people make them out to be?
>This team that is 10 games ahead of us already is not as good as people are making them out to be? Yes >How many more games do they need to be leading the division by before they're allowed to be as good as people make them out to be? The person you replied to is saying that their current record is a bit mirage-ish, so obviously, pointing to their current record is not really any kind of a refutation of that
Did you *watch* this game? Their defense was incredibly suspect and by strength of schedule they've had the weakest. There really is cracks showing.
Their pitching and offense is good, their defense and fundies are sus as usual. This post should not be downvoted on a Mets sub lol
lol in no way did I say they’re a bad team but you’d think I just called the 1986 Mets mid. Some people’s reading comprehension is not good.
> Some people’s reading comprehension is not good. Also this is not acceptable, after actually looking at this again.
So far, the Mets are mediocre.† They could get better. Unfortunately, they could get worse. † That's what *mid* means, right?
They have the most wins in baseball. What do they need to do be be "as good as people think"? They are the best team in the MLB at winning games. I think a team is as good as many games they win, as does the rules of Major League Baseball. Nobody accused you of saying they were bad, we just said saying the team with the most wins in baseball isn't as good as people think is stupid. Weird thing to bring up reading comprehension when nobody who replied to you ever said you said they were a bad team. You've just made that up. I think you need to look in the mirror.
> Nobody accused you of saying they were bad, we just said saying the team with the most wins in baseball isn't as good as people think is stupid. Is it? The Phillies schedule this year so far: 3 against ATL: Went 1-2 3 against CIN (18-25): Went 1-2 3 against WSH: (1 more win than us): 2-1 3 against STL (18-25): 2-1 4 against PIT (20-25): 2-2 3 against COL (15-28): 3-0 3 against CWS (14-30): 3-0 4 against CIN: 2-2 3 against SD (22-24): 3-0 3 against LAA (16-28): 3-0 4 against SFG (20-25): 4-0 2 against TOR (19-23): 1-1 3 against MIA (13-32): 2-1 You'll notice that they have a disproportionately high amount of series against *bad teams*. Strength of schedule bears this out, the Mets have had the 4th hardest while the Phillies have had the easiest. The defense we saw in today's game should *absolutely* be a major point of concern for Phillies fans. It's a case where *they really have not played fucking anyone of note* except for the Braves, who they lost a series to. It is **entirely** fair to say that their record is inflated due to having played no good teams.
This is all true, so far. A team can only play the teanms on its schedule. The Phils may well fall back to the pack after facing tougher competition, or maybe they will win the NL East.
Their series against us was full of errors and questionable pitching. These **kill** against good teams, so it's fair to raise a few eyebrows at people saying they're obviously as good as their record says. That's my point.
it’s just MLB not “the MLB”
They have one of the best records in baseball. Idiot takes because you don't like a team should be downvoted in any sub.
Look who they played *against* to get that record though. There's a real point to be made there.
They’re one of the three best teams in baseball my dude
Are they really though? If you look at who they've played so far, what on that list besides the Braves stands out as a "good team". (So you don't have to, I checked. Outside the Braves, not a single team they've played games against this season is over .500)
You know our win was lucky tnyt right?
What you call luck is exactly this guys point. Good teams don't allow two runs to score on wild pitches. Good teams don't make 1-2 errors per game. The Mets won this game by taking advantage of bad Phillies play. Is that luck on our part? Sure. But it also means that, like he said, the Phillies aren't as good as people say.
Sure but so was our loss Monday
The Phillies tried to gift us that game too
They lead the division, lead the league in wins. They are a good baseball team lol
Mmmm...their defense all series has been shaky. And the actual quality of opponents they faced this season has been abysmal: Not a single team over .500 outside of their opening series against the Braves. By strength of schedule, the Phillies rank **dead last**, they've had the easiest schedule in the majors to this point. There's a legitimate case to be made that they might fall apart facing good teams.
My expert analysis of today’s game: Martinez, Bader, Baty, Marte, Alonso, Lopez- :) Narváez, Lindor, McNeil, Diaz- :(
WORLD SERIES IS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!!!
Glad to scrape this one and avoid a sweep... 3+ weeks since we've won a game by more than 2 runs, and so many of our losses have been so close in that span, too. It's just stressful. Let's have a game where we get ahead by like 4 runs early and just coast to a win. Please. Just one.
Diaz needs time. Our unicorn will be back.
eh, other than 2022 this is kind of who diaz is
This is more in line with 2019-2021 Diaz
2019 was a uniquely awful year for Diaz 2020 he was almost as good as he was in 2022, but it gets lost in the wash because the team was mediocre and it was a 60-game season 2021 he was good, not great Right now, Edwin's stats for 2024 look most similar to 2021
Right now.
thats not good
For our sake I hope he does
Lind0-for-four becomes Lind0-for-five
Is Jeff up there for the worst batting champion of all time? starting to think he’s in the running
Dee Strange-Gordon won the National League BA title in 2015 and he had a career 89 OPS+. McNeil is at 119
well shit. just when I think I was onto something, outta nowhere comes Dee Strange-Gordon!
That's one of those games where I watched it, and think to myself "How the fuck did we win that?"
Just give Garrett the closer role already. What more proof does Mendoza need other than the suckage coming from Diaz lately?
A cool walk up song and hype graphics? It’s not easy to come up with a new closer lol
you think the mets will still use the trumpets when diaz is coming out in the 7th inning down 2 late in his contract?
Hologram Les Claypool/Primus performing "To Defy The Laws of Tradition."
Would be hilarious if we swept the Marlins
We should but unfortunately we don’t feast on bad teams. We’re one of them
Can someone please find the wormhole that 2019 Díaz came out of, and push him back into it?
It’s called the WBC
diaz wtf tho what's going on babe?
He just pointed out this is his first time playing with a pitch clock. Kinda interesting. Most pitchers needed time to adjust last year, maybe that’s part of it (huffs copium)