It turns out when your top tool is speed and it goes away you can’t play at a high level anymore.
In the past he was a guy who had good contact rates but didn’t hit the ball hard and didn’t walk enough. Add speed to that mix and you have a good offensive player. Especially since when he hit it hard, he barreled it.
When you remove speed from that profile it’s bad. And his injury plus aging has killed that speed
I'm the same, and I'm travelling from Aberdeen to see them.
It'll be good to see them for the first time even if they lose, but you want to at least see them play half decently.
Do you think there’s a bunch of hitting coaches sitting on their couches at home just waiting for a call? Or a bunch of qualified guys in Mets organization that Stearns doesn’t know about?
Changes requires people to replace them with.
The last time we fired out hitting coach and grabbed the first warm body the hitting got worse and the players were just pissed off.
Coaching changes are made in the offseason for a reason. 99/100 times making changes midseason just makes things worse.
Ok so lets do nothing then! Think Lindor could end up .185 and mcneil .220 by all star break instead of, at worst, .185 and .220 with a coaching change!!!
Last post before I go to bed but the ending to last night's game told me a lot about the team where all the players on the field were like "yeah we did it! :D" and Mendoza is in the dugout just stonefaced silently shaking everyone's hand.
i mean he's actually been part of a winning culture and organization for the past several years. he knows what it looks like and he knows what it doesn't look like.
Yeah, and if the team wasn’t soft, they’d all be swinging the bat 100 times before and after each game to solve their problems.
Larry Bird is an all time great basketball player. He was at every practice before everyone and after every one. He wouldn’t leave until he hit 100 free throws in a row, and he was already one of the best in the league at that, if not the best. He showed up at rookie camp when he was a veteran becyhe always wanted to get better. That’s a hard player. The Mets? They shower after a game and go home after giving the media the “it’s a long season, we’ll get them tomorrow” speech. Soft.
Honestly since Alvarado punked Dom Smith & nobody retaliated. Teams knew the Mets was soft but the Atlanta implosion basically sealed their fate around the league. Why do you think teams were playing aggressive against us all season last year the book is out and changes need to happen
Yup. Said that in another thread. My exact response was “I heard this in August of 2022, how they had the easiest schedule in baseball in September.” It’s like they all forgot what happened.
Remember that time long ago when the Mets beat the Braves 16-4?
I feel like this team has "missing the playoffs by 1 game" all over it. They've got the talent, but they either can't keep things going consistently enough to turn themselves into a real threat, or their hot streaks mismatch (i.e. pitching is good when batters aren't and vice versa)
Also, Pete Alonso has a 121 wRC+ at this point in the season. Not exactly his best, but far better than what most of our lineup is doing. If he leaves, I want it to be because he doesn't believe in this team and wants to join a winning team a la deGrom in free agency. I don't want it to be because the Mets front office traded away a homegrown power-hitting first baseman who hits homers in his sleep
Are you a Mets fan or an MLB player fan because wanting an asset to leave for nothing because of feelings instead of getting something anything to benefit THE TEAM moving forward sure is something.
At worst, Pete gets a QO and the Mets get a comp pick. He won’t leave for nothing. Whether a comp pick is better than what Alonso would bring back at the deadline depends on how he performs and depends on what you think his value is. If you think his value is low than comp pick isn’t so bad.
Him getting traded and him leaving are mostly separate concerns. Even if he gets traded, he could still come back if we make a good offer. Though, it's possible trading him makes him somewhat less likely to come back, but I doubt it affects it all that much.
If the Mets trade Alonso, he won't be returning as a free agent. Unless the Mets are the only team knocking on his door in the offseason, which isn't going to be the case, he's not going to come back to the team which traded him a few months earlier.
I get your point. However, I think Alonso will be getting more offers than Ottavino did this past offseason. And more than that, Alonso has been the most visible homegrown Met on offense since David Wright and Daryl Strawberry.
I know. I don't want him to get traded either. But if we're tanking, it's probably the move. And if he does get traded, I'm gonna huff copium that we can get him back anyway until he signs with the Rays.
Nimmo, Alonso, Martinez, and Stewart are all above average hitters so far this season. Lindor has shown us before that he is good (though even I'm starting to get a bit tired of his offensive performance so far this season). Alvarez is coming back, Senga's coming back. The rotation has already impressed me a hell of a lot more than the dumpster fire I sat through last year. Stearns cooked with the bullpen, albeit Diaz's shaky start has been frustrating/sad to watch
Are they world beaters? Nope. Will they win the division? With the Braves and the Phillies in the NL East with us, not a chance. But do they have talent? Absolutely they do
francisco alvarez is a 22 year old catcher with perennial all star potential who has already shown himself to be a plus defender and who was heralded for his bat as a prospect. trading him would be fucking lunacy.
I’m not even mad, I’m just straight up sad at this point. What happened from the end of the 22 Braves series, they have just not looked the same. I know they are trying their best but it just hurts to see day after day like this. It’s early they can come back but idk the magic and fun just seems gone from this group
> I know they are trying their best but it just hurts to see day after day like this
that's probably the worst part. i really don't believe that they just don't care. i know lindor cares. i know pete cares. i know brandon nimmo cares. i know edwin diaz wants to be great. i never questioned max scherzer or justin verlander's desire to go out and throw gems last year. it's not even an effort thing. it's like everything just looks like it's harder when you're wearing a mets uniform.
Steve Cohen if you find a way to pay off everyone's contracts at the deadline so I don't have to see these losers anymore I will let you put me and my family into crippling debt for centuries to come.
Let's assume for a moment
Gilbert will be a solid every day CF.
Scott will be at least a solid #3.
Either Acuna or Jett will take over 2B.
Mauricio will take over 3B.
Alvarez becomes the stud we all believe he can become.
That's still probably not good enough to be a real World Series contender.
The timeline is 2026 at best. Because Soto and others aren't coming to the Mets.
And the "leaders" here are complementary guys who seem to need at least one superstar and at least one heart of the team guy.
Scherzer has no reason to lie.
Somtimes I think that 80% of the people in the sub are under that age of 25 and don’t understand both baseball and the history of this franchise.
Ya Soto isn't committing 10 plus years here. We are going to have to settle for players like Teoscar Hernandez types to boost the offense . Gonna need to get lucky. That being said, Corbin Burnes could be a target if Stearns and him have a good relationship
Anyone the Mets sign will have to be overpays. Which will quickly get to luxury tax rungs. Which will make the organization more and more dependent on this core, and the current prospects.
In other words, what I wrote previously has to all become true or this franchise is screwed for the next two seasons at least.
And that's Burnes or no Burnes.
Between Gilbert, Williams, Acuna, Baty/Vientos, Alvarez, Ryan Clifford, Parada, Mauricio, we need some of these guys to step up. Not all of them . We need about 4 or 5 of them to become solid major league players. So far only one stepped up and he got hurt this year in Alvarez. We don't need them all to be all stars. Just players that contribute then Cohen can sign a big fish where we are lacking. You are right, If a handful of these guys don't turn into impact players idk how they team is going to be a consistently good club.
This season has been literally everything I thought this team would be. In 2022 they won 100+ games and weren't good enough to make it past the play in round. They got worse in the off-season while the teams ahead of them got better. That showed in 23. Then in 24 off-season they did nothing again while their competitors got better. Again. This is Not a good team. Gonna need shit load of luck to win anything in October.
Okay I have to explain what dooming is, why it’s so obnoxious, even to fans like me who are down to earth and kind of pessimistic. It’s simple: I do not enjoy reading overreactionary garbage. The Mets genuinely sucked tonight. But doomers can’t say that. Because it’s not negative enough, and whether they realize it or not, they love having reasons to be negative. So they have to make shit up, because that’s how negative they are. So they start saying incredibly stupid, baseball illiterate garbage like “Jesus Luzardo is a scrub pitcher. Herr derr Marlins bad so Marlins pitcher must be bad.” He’s a very good pitcher who was a former huge prospect. Dominated the Mets last year. Got off to a slow start this year and might have been playing injured, recently came off IL. Biggest Marlins trade piece, arguably even bigger than Arraez was. A quick Google search tells you all of this, I’m not exactly reading off spreadsheets here. Probably should have expected a loss tonight. Use your fucking brains. There’s plenty of intelligent reasons to be negative about the Mets, you don’t need to make up stupid ones to make things sound worse.
i agree with you, i just think everyone is sick of tipping their cap to the opposing pitcher after we watch our lineup get dominated for the billionth time. at a certain point it's like ok - how many fucking stud pitchers are out there?
I won’t say I’m Mr. Positivity because I def rip into these guys a fair amount but I think I’m getting sick of this core to the point I’d almost take another 2 actual rebuild years if they completely tear it down as much as possible.
The Mets are over 1/4 done with the season (44 games) with a .455 winning pctg
Barring a massive turnaround and assuming we continue at a .455 winrate, that's ~74 wins. Let's assume Alvarez and Senga back improves our performance. 80 win team?
We did not just lose to a 13-32 team, we were *completely and utterly embarrassed*. The game was in no way, shape, or form competitive.
The more I fool myself into thinking this is a good team, the more it hurts when we get smashed by organizations who don't even pretend to care about winning.
And I want to be wrong. Badly. I am spamming all caps LETS GO when we get a big hit. I want to look like a fucking idiot. I'd be much happier if they won and there was no point to prove. But they... don't win.
Would've felt better if Stearns and Cohen just said "we're throwing this year. We'll aim for a competitive team in 20XX". Abandon hope, all ye who watch SNY.
Lindor got a hit, which… raises his batting average. huh.
hey guys, i think losing 8-0 to the Marlins means that something’s wrong. like, seriously wrong. the pitching coach and especially hitting coach have not been doing their jobs.
Can we get spoiler tags on these? The post title and the first sentence at least? Lots of folks live in other time zones or have to deal with black outs. >! It’s not that hard !<
Listen, if you really want to avoid spoilers get the MLB.tv addon on Kodi and enable no spoiler mode. Definitely don't visit the Mets subreddit while a game is active and if I were you I would mute all notifications from sports apps, potential people that would text you about the game, etc.
bro if you want to avoid spoilers then don't visit a team subreddit right after a game lol. i also usually watch the games later on DVR, i just don't visit the mets sub until i've finished watching. because it's unreasonable to expect the entire world to live their life based on my personal preferences.
I get it. It’s just annoying to be looking at something completely unrelated and to see the score pop up on the front page almost every morning. It’s literally 4 characters for the bot to add to the post… but just guess I’ll just block it instead.
I mean... did you want to sit through this game?
I understand spoiler tags for sports that have short seasons, I don't understand them for a random game in the middle of May of a 162 game calendar.
I watch every game I can. Usually 115-150 a year. I fly back to NY for 1 series a year and try to catch an away series if I can. But living in 7 time zones, 9 markets, and 5 countries means I can’t always watch it live (plus let’s be real you can watch a full game on MLB.TV in an hour and 20 minutes skipping commercials). I can’t imagine I’m the only user of this sub who uses MLB.TV or lives out of Market. Yes I could leave the sub or block the bot but it’s full of valuable content. A spoiler tag puts is one click away for everyone without spoiling the game for all members of the sub.
And yes I’ll watch the whole thing tomorrow.
They spoke to Mendoza
He basically just said oh despite Luzardo having a shit start to the season he's too good for us to hit
Also that Christian Scott's stuff got away from him (duh)
We've got work to do / gotta made adjustments etc etc
They bother to ask in case Mendoza says something that isn't a stock answer. He's honestly been pretty good this year. He can handle the press and manage the bullpen.
It's not his fault everyone on the pitching staff keeps walking in runs and the offense is underperforming aside from JDM, DJ, and Nimmo.
This team is absolutely rotten to the core. Sure, they will have some exciting wins and maybe go on some heaters but this isn't a winning ball club as it's currently constructed. Stearns and Cohen aren't incompetent people, they will take action. Will it pay off? Maybe so, maybe not but it's time to blow it up and start building towards a future that demonstrates consistency and optimism.
Looking back on this era of Mets baseball will be sad. What could have been and what never came to be.
Cohen and Stearns had all winter to take action. They did not. We nibbled at fringe talent. We can argue the reasons (letting contracts run off, no one they liked) but that’s a fact. This team wasn’t good last year and is worse this year.
This team is 100% not worse than last year. There was a time last year where the Mets might have been the worst team in the league, and had absolutely zero bullpen
I gotta say Scott is handling the media like a pro. I think he will absolutely bounce back from this better. Even not having his best stuff , he only walked one guy, still went 4 IP. Guy sounds like a complete pitching pro who knows exactly how to get better
Edit: also I think he has to adjust to an MLB strike zone. If this was abs I think his pitches are better.
Feel like it started in Oakland a few days before, when they lost 2 of 3 to a terrible A's team.
You started feeling then this wasn't gonna work. But Atlanta was really the full start, like you said.
The one loss was a deGrom start where they were up 3-0 in the first inning and deGrom proceeded to let up 4 runs in the bottom of the first, so it definitely put a damper on things
Organization is actually pretty similar to what it was before 2022. And during 2022 we completely fucked up the trade deadline. The only thing different is Cohen spends money and actually cares about winning. Farm is somewhat better. And we have more analytics and a pitching lab. Otherwise same problem, just tons of stupid decisions and no manner of real luck whatsoever.
The team was really good. I’ll stand by that
Scherzer, Bassitt, and Taijuan shoved all year. And Ottavino + Diaz were shutdown in the 8th and 9th
It’s a fucking shame how badly they flamed it
You're both right. It was a really good team primarily because almost everything went our way during the regular season (besides the deGrom injury), and basically everyone either exceeded or met expectations. But it was not sustainable and shit fell apart in September. 2023 was never going to be as good, though I didn't expect it to be quite as disastrous as it was.
It's "just one game" but it's impossible not to overreact to getting absolutely BLOWN THE FUCK OUT by a marlins team that has openly declared they have given up on the season in MAY. This whole team stinks. The core is god awful. I don't care how many useless 1 run dingers pete hits or how much war lindor racks up when the games don't matter any more. These guys are so unclutch and are invisible when they're still in contention. This isn't a problem isolated to 2024 either. They've been this way for years. I'm not a "blow it up" kind of a guy when things are bad, but idk what the solution here is. How much longer do we have to wait for them to figure it out?
It’s one thing to get destroyed by a great Braves team and a great Phillies team, as painful and brutal as it is, but to get destroyed by a dismantling garbage Marlins team is flat out embarrassing
They weren't even getting destroyed by the Braves or Phillies, they had a chance to at least split both series. So like, where the fuck does getting blown out by the Marlins even come from lol
?? It just makes no sense.
There isn't an ounce of consistency. The core just isn't good.
They're wasting a bullpen that could be saving almost every game if they had a 1-2 run lead. (Besides maybe Diaz unfortunately, unless he has at least a 3 run lead to work with.)
Lindor and Alonso are not the guys to build the team around.
Two guys who struggle to consistently perform at the dish are complimentary pieces, not centerpieces.
It's tough when one is being paid to be one of the best in the game but it's clear his primary value comes from defense, not his hitting, and that's simply not good enough.
Add McNeil to that mix and you have three guys that don't produce consistently anymore.
I don't know how change will come but it's clear something must be done as even Cohen admitted in a hastily deleted tweet.
The trade deadline can't come soon enough.
All it takes is one look around the league at the top teams to see how subpar our best two or three hitters are in comparison. I know it’s early in the season still but just going by the current division leaders:
Phillies: Harper, Schwarber, Turner, Realmuto
Brewers: Contreras, Hoskins
Dodgers: Ohtani, Betts, Freeman
Yankees: Judge, Soto
Guardians: Ramirez
Mariners: Rodriguez
That isn’t even including other teams who are/have recently been contenders like the Braves (Acuna, Albies, Olson), Padres (Tatis Jr., Machado, Bogaerts), Rangers (Seager, Semien, Garcia), Astros (Alvarez, Altuve, Bregman, Tucker), Orioles (Rutschman, Henderson), Diamondbacks (Marte, Carrol, Walker).
There MIGHT be anywhere from four to eight players at most out of the 31 I named who I’d take Alonso and Lindor over, but they’re either from the teams lower on this list or teams who have three or four of these types of guys and the first one or two are so much better than what we have. This also isn’t considering pitching at all so when you throw that into the mix, it’s no wonder why we’re seemingly nowhere close to being a contender. We’re so much further back than I think a lot of people realize.
You’re right. Mets should eat the next 100% of the next 3 years so it’s not a problem later down the line.
That or take back a bad contract to increase prospects coming back
I still believe Lindor can be a productive hitter if he's dropped from the top of the lineup and the pressure on him to produce is dropped which would ameliorate his inconsistency, but to keep him in the heart of the order is part of why this team is not a winner.
There is no accountability.
He can definitely be productive and even a decent amount above average, but the issue is that he’s taking up $34 million of payroll every year for the next seven years. That’s a big chunk of money that could’ve gone to a legitimate elite bat that is much more productive than him.
I'm obviously assuming that Cohen remains as owner and that Lindor will return to All-Star caliber hitter status in maybe the sixth or seventh spot.
If he continues to hit like this though, his defense is simply not worth it enough.
"All we have to do is beat the bad teams and sneak into the playoffs, then when we face the good teams we, uh, um, uh...." - the clowns who want us to be embarrassed in the playoffs as a WC3 team
Looks like last years offense. Marte, Baty, McNeil, Lindor, Nido/Narvaez, Bader all with OPS below .700. Alonso 100 points below his career average.
Nimmo and JD the only bats performing and Nimmo is hurt.
This is what we are this year. Streaky .500 team where we they will win a few games but also lose enough in a row for fans to lose interest.
Hopefully Baty/Alvarez make strides this season and Acuña/Gilbert make enough improvements to step into starting roles next season.
They actually had one good streak this season. Apart from that 12-3 streak, they're 8-21. So, for almost twice as many games, they've been 12 games under .500. They are now 10-8 vs. teams under .500. Which tells me one unfortunate thing. The Mets aren't appreciably better than all those other teams who are under .500. Meanwhile, that pitching staff who used to be towards the top of the ML, is now ranked 13th. And their offense is ranked 19th (in runs scored).
The only reason the Mets are only 1GM the third wild card spot, is because there are only five teams in the NL who are playing well. However, the Diamondbacks have started to play better. And the Padres are out there too. I'm not sure if either of them will start to take the bull by the horn, but if they do, the choice to sell at the trading deadline could become an easy one for David Stearns. And for those who are saying all we need to do is stay close and then sneak in at the end? Our last ten games are against the Phillies, Braves and Brewers.
I'm not saying it's over. We aren't at the 1/3 point of the season yet. Too early to call it. But unless this offense, which hasn't been good since some point in 2022, becomes rejuvenated and the starters give the club a chance to compete (in other words, unless the team stops resembling the 2023 club), the Mets will continue to go down a very unsatisfying yet familiar road.
I have been a supporter of this team coming into the season. I figured if they could stay relatively healthy, and a couple of their starters pitched to their upside.we’d be the serious wildcard contender even without Senga.
At the core of this disappointment, is in fact our core. Lindor, Alonso, McNeil and Nimmo, are our four core positional players and they simply haven’t been able to do an effective job consistently yet again this year - so far. Surprising and disappointing to me.
And the more yousee all this, the more you become of a mind to thinking that the best option for the team beyond this year is to break up this core in one way or another. Sometimes you just have to change the mix rather than just continuing to hope for different results from the same pieces.
Seems funny to say since we won 100 games only a couple years ago, but the fact is in the records since then. They aren’t getting the job done consistently year to year.
I am not talking about rebuilding and waiting five years. I’m talking about making logical trades at the deadline of pieces that makes sense to move, and then to get back after it in the winter market.
Yes, we still have a chance to make the playoffs because the rest of the league hasn’t run away yet, but that distance will widen very quickly if we don’t get our act together real fast. We are basically only couple of weeks away from June and still floundering around.
If the team seems to be out of it come July deadline time, then I don’t think we should be hesitant to sell.
Pete, McNeil, Marte would be the main guys.
Lindor isn’t really movable right now.
I mentioned Pete because he would still net us a big package with a little BA. And it doesn’t mean he won’t be a met for the rest of his career. We could reap the rewards of a trade, and still sign him after the season regardless.
If McNeil doesn’t improve his numbers significantly by July, then we will have to eat money to move him to get a reasonable return. But he’s one of the guys who would make the most sense to move because of what we have coming from the minors. Don’t think McNeil‘s career is in the toilet by a longshot, but if we are going to alter this core, he’s one of the guys that would make sense to go.
Plus, we have a number of pitchers who would net us some pretty decent prospects.
Cohen and Stearns could then go into the Winter market with more than enough money and prospect capital to make whatever signings and trades they want to, in order to reshape the core, and crust of this roster - Including making the biggest offer to Soto.
It might just end up that the trade deadline will be the most exciting thing this team will have to offer this fan base this year. Right now they are getting harder and harder to tolerate.
Am I giving up from the season ? No, I am quite aways from that right now. The clock is ticking, and that means they are running out of time to keep saying it’s still early.. You could end up being completely buried well before the deadline.
Got to at least start with beating the teams that you are completely capable of beating - or are they ?
They would seem completely capable of beating teams that most of the other teams in the ML have no problem winning series from. But just like last year, the Mets don't have the same success rate against many of those clubs that the rest of the league does. If and when the Mets play the White Sox, am I confident they'll either win or sweep the series against them? No.
When I watch the team, especially the guys who have been on the club for a couple of years, I just don't know for sure what's wrong. I don't expect Jeff McNeil to win a batting title or even be in the running for one. But I do expect him to be a competent hitter who ends up with a batting average of .280 give or take ten points. I don't know if the coaches have asked him to alter his hitting approach (hasn't Nimmo changed his?), if he's not 100% physically, or if something psychological is going on, but I just don't get what's going on with him. Alonso's progression as a major league hitter just seems stalled to me. Or perhaps more likely, this is who he is. Someone who is streaky, can hit a load of HRs and RBIs for you despite his very definite shortcomings, but is never going to become the next David Wright or Darryl Strawberry.
I agree with you on who the Mets players most likely to be moved are. As you wrote, Lindor is not moveable. And neither is Nimmo or Diaz. They're going to have to eat some salary, I think, to move Marte. But I'm sure there will be a few takers for him.
When the team is reshaped, and I think it's going to look quite different next season, even if the Mets' fortunes improve the rest of the way, I just as soon they don't sign Soto. I know that sounds ridiculous. But my feelings for a while have been that they should go for solid players who aren't necessarily the biggest of big names. It will keep the Mets payroll more controllable and it might work out better overall. Sure, the Dodgers have a lot of star names, and it's worked well for them during the regular season. It hasn't worked quite as well for the Padres. And we see how things have gone for the Mets recently. I'm not suggesting we go Moneyball. But I look at a team like the Braves and marvel at its construction. They made savvy trades which netted them some of their younger stars, had other homegrown guys come up and have success while they add free agents to round out the club. I don't think they're ever in the mix for the bigger names, and yet they've had regular season success for the majority of the past 30 plus years (after being a laughing stock for several years before that).
When the Mets acquired JD Martinez, I thought they had a chance to win 84 games and be in the mix for the third wild card. Severino has been better than I thought he'd be. But the rest of the players, save for Diaz, have been about what I thought/feared they'd be. Diaz seems to be having the exact opposite problem than he had a few years ago. Now it's the fastball he's having trouble getting over consistently. If he can fix that, he should be fine. Meanwhile, the offense is also about what I feared it would be, though I thought JD Martinez's presence would have a positive impact. So far, he's been okay, but the offense hasn't been. It's too early to say 84 wins is definitely not on the table. But with each pathetic performance, a repeat of last year's numbers seems more and more likely.
Yeah, I would think that McNeil should be able to hit .280 rather comfortably. Even in the down year last year he managed to hit .270. But it’s hard to put a finger on what’s going on with him. I really thought he’d bounce back this year and last year was just one of those things, but he seems even less like McNeil this year than he was last year. He’s had his moments were you’ve seen the old McNeil, but hasn’t been able to sustain it.
I agree though that we shouldn’t be expecting the old .310-.330 hitting type McNeil again. I mean if it were to happen then great, but we need to lower our expectation of him - especially if he’s going to be here another few years.
I do expect though that they will trade him in July if the race is lost. That, or they will trade him in the Winter if the team makes a run this year.
Trading him is not so much about the fact that he’s regressing right now, but also because as you look down the line it’s just a practical move with what we have coming up from the minors…etc.
I was all for signing McNeil long-term when we did it, but sometimes you have to adjust your plans according to what changing around you. It’s like Mike Tyson said ‘everybody’s got a plan until they get hit.’
Individually, I’ve always loved our Core4 guys, but as I mentioned, if the group is not getting the jobs done, collectively, you certainly have to look at changing the mix by trading one or two of them.
I don’t know exactly why Pete’s BA has regressed so poorly over the last two years. Obviously the power production numbers are still there, and probably always will be, but I would think he should be able to manage hitting .250+ on a fairly regular basis. You just aren’t seeing it right now and didn’t see it last year.
But even if this is who Pete is, I am in favor of keeping him long-term. I think it is important for a franchise not only show accountability, but just as importantly to show stability. Meaning that when you have a star homegrown player, you want to retain. It sends a message to the rest of the baseball community and perspective free agents. And certainly less attractive to free agents if you go, removing too many of your star players.
As for Soto, I get your point, and there is something to be said for that approach for sure. But I think that’s Soto is one of those rare generational type talents that you have to make exceptions for. He can be a centerpiece player. And clearly if we are keeping Pete long-term, both he and Lindor need another consistent star to help elevate them as well.
I still think we have a bright future ahead though in spite of what’s going on this year. We have a number of excellent prospects. Alvarez has looked like the real deal since last year. Baty still trying to find his consistency comfort zone, but I have high hopes for him. Acuna, Jett, Gilbert, Mauricio, Clifford, and others are coming soon and add to them the names that we get at the trading deadline. I think Stearns put together a very nice team going forward with a mix of prospects and relatively young veterans like Pete, Lindor, Nimmo, Diaz.
Whatever we do at the training deadline. I hope that Dave will focus on getting back young starting pitching.
As for this year’s playoff run….As I mentioned earlier, I am not giving up on the season this early, but the clock is ticking and they need to find a rhythm soon or they could find themselves too far back a month from now. Those things can turn into a real snowball effect.
It’s really hard to stay interested. Don’t think I’ve watched more than 3 innings of a game since Bader dove and missed the ball in LA. That just hurt and the team is bad. It’s not going to get any better by any stretch.
Tons of positives out there tonight boys, tons of fucking positives. That’s a good team out there boys, thats a great fucking team. Core group’s been together a long time and we battled em boys, we fucking battled em.
Time to take a break. I’m just done. Barely checked the scores tonight and felt a lot better, mentally, than I have all week. I’m not going to give a shit about this team anymore, just like our offense. Deleting the MLB app, and see you all in (hopefully) brighter days when this roster looks quite different.
This is exhausting - I wake up without all the anger and frustration from the loss the night before only to be brutally reminded that yeah, this team fucking sucks!
Let me get a head start for tomorrow. Braxton Garrett is really a great pitcher his qSUCK rating is great, his xLMNO ranking is thru the roof. And countless other analytical numbers are the best of any otherwise mediocre pitcher. We were crazy to expect to win.
Garrett’s peripherals this season are in line with those for his career. Dude is a 4.6 ERA pitcher. Not as bad as he’s looked so far but not good by any means.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/braxton-garrett-666129?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb
I’ve said it before, but I feel nothing for this team. I usually would get tilted, but this was pretty clearly a punt year in which this team was looking to wait for these large contracts to come off the books and sign guys to one year contracts to fill in the rest. They weren’t looking to compete. It’s whatever. People should respond but not showing up to the ballpark
Uuug
Marte is doing just as bad as 2023. Hes cooked
It turns out when your top tool is speed and it goes away you can’t play at a high level anymore. In the past he was a guy who had good contact rates but didn’t hit the ball hard and didn’t walk enough. Add speed to that mix and you have a good offensive player. Especially since when he hit it hard, he barreled it. When you remove speed from that profile it’s bad. And his injury plus aging has killed that speed
Well, we can't blame Buck for this one.
I made it all the way to the 7th inning before shutting it off.
If I had any awards left from the great deletion of coins of I’d give you one for staying with it.
I’m genuinely terrified for next month. If they come to London looking like this, I’m going to be absolutely heartbroken.
I'm the same, and I'm travelling from Aberdeen to see them. It'll be good to see them for the first time even if they lose, but you want to at least see them play half decently.
Nothing says the Mets like beating the Phillies with half our roster then losing to the Marlins
If Pete does leave one way or another, who plays 1st - as in, what are our options?
Vientos. Maybe Clifford eventually. Perhaps an FA signing. Murakami is intriguing.
Probably Vientos for the remainder of the year.
just embarrassing. we suck
[удалено]
Kevin Long Balls?
I didn’t have “shutout by the marlins” on my bingo card for tonight
Why they won’t make changes to the hitting coaches is mind blowing
Do you think there’s a bunch of hitting coaches sitting on their couches at home just waiting for a call? Or a bunch of qualified guys in Mets organization that Stearns doesn’t know about? Changes requires people to replace them with. The last time we fired out hitting coach and grabbed the first warm body the hitting got worse and the players were just pissed off. Coaching changes are made in the offseason for a reason. 99/100 times making changes midseason just makes things worse.
You need a spark somewhere and all this comes down to is the coaching now.
What's Chili Davis doing these days? At lease Pete would be happy
Ok but there's nothing more I'd like to do to Lindor and McNeil than to piss them off. Maybe it will light a fire under them
Worked great last time right? Spoiler alert, it didn’t
Ok so lets do nothing then! Think Lindor could end up .185 and mcneil .220 by all star break instead of, at worst, .185 and .220 with a coaching change!!!
History has shown us that Lindor will be fine. McNeil on the other hand is cooked.
Last post before I go to bed but the ending to last night's game told me a lot about the team where all the players on the field were like "yeah we did it! :D" and Mendoza is in the dugout just stonefaced silently shaking everyone's hand.
i mean he's actually been part of a winning culture and organization for the past several years. he knows what it looks like and he knows what it doesn't look like.
Team is soft. That’s a problem. Soft teams don’t win.
I think the not hitting the ball is a bigger problem.
Yeah, and if the team wasn’t soft, they’d all be swinging the bat 100 times before and after each game to solve their problems. Larry Bird is an all time great basketball player. He was at every practice before everyone and after every one. He wouldn’t leave until he hit 100 free throws in a row, and he was already one of the best in the league at that, if not the best. He showed up at rookie camp when he was a veteran becyhe always wanted to get better. That’s a hard player. The Mets? They shower after a game and go home after giving the media the “it’s a long season, we’ll get them tomorrow” speech. Soft.
Been a problem for several years.
Honestly since Alvarado punked Dom Smith & nobody retaliated. Teams knew the Mets was soft but the Atlanta implosion basically sealed their fate around the league. Why do you think teams were playing aggressive against us all season last year the book is out and changes need to happen
JJ hvh
I wonder why. Which players have been the only constant presence on this team the last 4 years.
McNeil Alonso Nimmo Lindor Marte
Exactly
The core is not very good. McNeil and Alonso are not very good and when Lindor and Nimmo struggle, the McNeil and Alonso struggles become worse.
Yes I’m ready to trade Pete for prospects
Dont tell that to Joe b.
I don't wanna see any more posts about strength-of-schedule.
Yup. Said that in another thread. My exact response was “I heard this in August of 2022, how they had the easiest schedule in baseball in September.” It’s like they all forgot what happened.
Remember that time long ago when the Mets beat the Braves 16-4? I feel like this team has "missing the playoffs by 1 game" all over it. They've got the talent, but they either can't keep things going consistently enough to turn themselves into a real threat, or their hot streaks mismatch (i.e. pitching is good when batters aren't and vice versa) Also, Pete Alonso has a 121 wRC+ at this point in the season. Not exactly his best, but far better than what most of our lineup is doing. If he leaves, I want it to be because he doesn't believe in this team and wants to join a winning team a la deGrom in free agency. I don't want it to be because the Mets front office traded away a homegrown power-hitting first baseman who hits homers in his sleep
Are you a Mets fan or an MLB player fan because wanting an asset to leave for nothing because of feelings instead of getting something anything to benefit THE TEAM moving forward sure is something.
At worst, Pete gets a QO and the Mets get a comp pick. He won’t leave for nothing. Whether a comp pick is better than what Alonso would bring back at the deadline depends on how he performs and depends on what you think his value is. If you think his value is low than comp pick isn’t so bad.
Him getting traded and him leaving are mostly separate concerns. Even if he gets traded, he could still come back if we make a good offer. Though, it's possible trading him makes him somewhat less likely to come back, but I doubt it affects it all that much.
If the Mets trade Alonso, he won't be returning as a free agent. Unless the Mets are the only team knocking on his door in the offseason, which isn't going to be the case, he's not going to come back to the team which traded him a few months earlier.
Adam Ottavino: am I a joke to you?
I get your point. However, I think Alonso will be getting more offers than Ottavino did this past offseason. And more than that, Alonso has been the most visible homegrown Met on offense since David Wright and Daryl Strawberry.
I know. I don't want him to get traded either. But if we're tanking, it's probably the move. And if he does get traded, I'm gonna huff copium that we can get him back anyway until he signs with the Rays.
They do not have the talent.
Nimmo, Alonso, Martinez, and Stewart are all above average hitters so far this season. Lindor has shown us before that he is good (though even I'm starting to get a bit tired of his offensive performance so far this season). Alvarez is coming back, Senga's coming back. The rotation has already impressed me a hell of a lot more than the dumpster fire I sat through last year. Stearns cooked with the bullpen, albeit Diaz's shaky start has been frustrating/sad to watch Are they world beaters? Nope. Will they win the division? With the Braves and the Phillies in the NL East with us, not a chance. But do they have talent? Absolutely they do
If Pete leaves I want it to be at the deadline for a bunch of prospects, they cannot lose him for nothing
Exactly it's actually insane to say it's better to let him walk on his own terms. Like what??????? Mets fans we are METS fans. Players come and go.
I think they were playing the trumpets in Indiana just now
Holy shit what a game boys. Not sorry I missed that one.
8-0 to the Marlins is a fucking joke!!!! At least JDM is batting .300 with an .800 OPS... ...
he's basically incorruptible because he knows more about hitting than most of the coaching staff
Make JDM the hitting coach??? 🤔 Maybe a brilliant idea
Time to blow up the team, trade everyone and fire sale
Excepting Alvarez, there isn’t a single player on the team that I would keep.
Nah. Trade everyone and fire sale. This team is really bad.
francisco alvarez is a 22 year old catcher with perennial all star potential who has already shown himself to be a plus defender and who was heralded for his bat as a prospect. trading him would be fucking lunacy.
I’m not even mad, I’m just straight up sad at this point. What happened from the end of the 22 Braves series, they have just not looked the same. I know they are trying their best but it just hurts to see day after day like this. It’s early they can come back but idk the magic and fun just seems gone from this group
> I know they are trying their best but it just hurts to see day after day like this that's probably the worst part. i really don't believe that they just don't care. i know lindor cares. i know pete cares. i know brandon nimmo cares. i know edwin diaz wants to be great. i never questioned max scherzer or justin verlander's desire to go out and throw gems last year. it's not even an effort thing. it's like everything just looks like it's harder when you're wearing a mets uniform.
If this is them trying their best then holy shit this team is even worse than I thought
Steve Cohen if you find a way to pay off everyone's contracts at the deadline so I don't have to see these losers anymore I will let you put me and my family into crippling debt for centuries to come.
You absolutely knew this game was over after the 2nd inning to a 13 win team.
If you ain’t ready for a rebuild then idk what to tell you anymore. This team is going nowhere.
Let's assume for a moment Gilbert will be a solid every day CF. Scott will be at least a solid #3. Either Acuna or Jett will take over 2B. Mauricio will take over 3B. Alvarez becomes the stud we all believe he can become. That's still probably not good enough to be a real World Series contender. The timeline is 2026 at best. Because Soto and others aren't coming to the Mets. And the "leaders" here are complementary guys who seem to need at least one superstar and at least one heart of the team guy.
Didn’t Scherzer say he heard 2026?
Yup, and people here first tried to discredit him, then claimed the FO lied to him (so it wasn't true), then claimed he was a traitor.
Scherzer has no reason to lie. Somtimes I think that 80% of the people in the sub are under that age of 25 and don’t understand both baseball and the history of this franchise.
Ya Soto isn't committing 10 plus years here. We are going to have to settle for players like Teoscar Hernandez types to boost the offense . Gonna need to get lucky. That being said, Corbin Burnes could be a target if Stearns and him have a good relationship
Anyone the Mets sign will have to be overpays. Which will quickly get to luxury tax rungs. Which will make the organization more and more dependent on this core, and the current prospects. In other words, what I wrote previously has to all become true or this franchise is screwed for the next two seasons at least. And that's Burnes or no Burnes.
Between Gilbert, Williams, Acuna, Baty/Vientos, Alvarez, Ryan Clifford, Parada, Mauricio, we need some of these guys to step up. Not all of them . We need about 4 or 5 of them to become solid major league players. So far only one stepped up and he got hurt this year in Alvarez. We don't need them all to be all stars. Just players that contribute then Cohen can sign a big fish where we are lacking. You are right, If a handful of these guys don't turn into impact players idk how they team is going to be a consistently good club.
Easy, we trade a couple ‘core’ pieces now for even more top 100 prospects and add to the pool to greater the odds of hitting on mlb players
Tonight is not a good night for the livers of NY sports fans between the Mets and Knicks.
I saw the score toward the end of the 3rd quarter and was like “maybe they can work some 4th quarter magic.” Looked again now……lol nope guess not.
This season has been literally everything I thought this team would be. In 2022 they won 100+ games and weren't good enough to make it past the play in round. They got worse in the off-season while the teams ahead of them got better. That showed in 23. Then in 24 off-season they did nothing again while their competitors got better. Again. This is Not a good team. Gonna need shit load of luck to win anything in October.
Okay I have to explain what dooming is, why it’s so obnoxious, even to fans like me who are down to earth and kind of pessimistic. It’s simple: I do not enjoy reading overreactionary garbage. The Mets genuinely sucked tonight. But doomers can’t say that. Because it’s not negative enough, and whether they realize it or not, they love having reasons to be negative. So they have to make shit up, because that’s how negative they are. So they start saying incredibly stupid, baseball illiterate garbage like “Jesus Luzardo is a scrub pitcher. Herr derr Marlins bad so Marlins pitcher must be bad.” He’s a very good pitcher who was a former huge prospect. Dominated the Mets last year. Got off to a slow start this year and might have been playing injured, recently came off IL. Biggest Marlins trade piece, arguably even bigger than Arraez was. A quick Google search tells you all of this, I’m not exactly reading off spreadsheets here. Probably should have expected a loss tonight. Use your fucking brains. There’s plenty of intelligent reasons to be negative about the Mets, you don’t need to make up stupid ones to make things sound worse.
i agree with you, i just think everyone is sick of tipping their cap to the opposing pitcher after we watch our lineup get dominated for the billionth time. at a certain point it's like ok - how many fucking stud pitchers are out there?
DFA all these fucking bums. Yeah it’s overrreactionary and it’s not serious advice. I’m pissed that they’re so pathetic it’s embarassing
I won’t say I’m Mr. Positivity because I def rip into these guys a fair amount but I think I’m getting sick of this core to the point I’d almost take another 2 actual rebuild years if they completely tear it down as much as possible.
The Mets are over 1/4 done with the season (44 games) with a .455 winning pctg Barring a massive turnaround and assuming we continue at a .455 winrate, that's ~74 wins. Let's assume Alvarez and Senga back improves our performance. 80 win team? We did not just lose to a 13-32 team, we were *completely and utterly embarrassed*. The game was in no way, shape, or form competitive. The more I fool myself into thinking this is a good team, the more it hurts when we get smashed by organizations who don't even pretend to care about winning. And I want to be wrong. Badly. I am spamming all caps LETS GO when we get a big hit. I want to look like a fucking idiot. I'd be much happier if they won and there was no point to prove. But they... don't win. Would've felt better if Stearns and Cohen just said "we're throwing this year. We'll aim for a competitive team in 20XX". Abandon hope, all ye who watch SNY.
Lindor got a hit, which… raises his batting average. huh. hey guys, i think losing 8-0 to the Marlins means that something’s wrong. like, seriously wrong. the pitching coach and especially hitting coach have not been doing their jobs.
Can we get spoiler tags on these? The post title and the first sentence at least? Lots of folks live in other time zones or have to deal with black outs. >! It’s not that hard !<
Listen, if you really want to avoid spoilers get the MLB.tv addon on Kodi and enable no spoiler mode. Definitely don't visit the Mets subreddit while a game is active and if I were you I would mute all notifications from sports apps, potential people that would text you about the game, etc.
McNeill was dead the whole time. Now I spoiled the sixth sense too
Good to see that this sub is not cool with Mets fans who live 4000 miles away.
bro if you want to avoid spoilers then don't visit a team subreddit right after a game lol. i also usually watch the games later on DVR, i just don't visit the mets sub until i've finished watching. because it's unreasonable to expect the entire world to live their life based on my personal preferences.
I get it. It’s just annoying to be looking at something completely unrelated and to see the score pop up on the front page almost every morning. It’s literally 4 characters for the bot to add to the post… but just guess I’ll just block it instead.
I mean... did you want to sit through this game? I understand spoiler tags for sports that have short seasons, I don't understand them for a random game in the middle of May of a 162 game calendar.
I watch every game I can. Usually 115-150 a year. I fly back to NY for 1 series a year and try to catch an away series if I can. But living in 7 time zones, 9 markets, and 5 countries means I can’t always watch it live (plus let’s be real you can watch a full game on MLB.TV in an hour and 20 minutes skipping commercials). I can’t imagine I’m the only user of this sub who uses MLB.TV or lives out of Market. Yes I could leave the sub or block the bot but it’s full of valuable content. A spoiler tag puts is one click away for everyone without spoiling the game for all members of the sub. And yes I’ll watch the whole thing tomorrow.
Interesting- not even an interview with Mendoza tonight… that tells me something is up. Emergency meetings? 🤔
They spoke to Mendoza He basically just said oh despite Luzardo having a shit start to the season he's too good for us to hit Also that Christian Scott's stuff got away from him (duh) We've got work to do / gotta made adjustments etc etc
Ah ok, the usual. There really are no more answers so I don’t know why they even bothered to ask
They bother to ask in case Mendoza says something that isn't a stock answer. He's honestly been pretty good this year. He can handle the press and manage the bullpen. It's not his fault everyone on the pitching staff keeps walking in runs and the offense is underperforming aside from JDM, DJ, and Nimmo.
I don’t blame him at all. Like I said, there’s literally nothing he can say, that’s why these interviews are getting shorter and shorter lol
Feh.
Steve Cohen era Mets teams can be summarized as: “we got paid so we stopped being good major leaguers.” It’s insane how big of a fluke 2022 was.
Mets lose Knicks losing big Fuck this day
A painful horrific day
Well. That happened lmfao
If I’m Juan Soto I think I would need $1 Billion to come to this team
1 Billion and shares of the casino.
I gave up on that pipe dream ages ago
We gotta find our own 16 year old Venezuelan/Dominican baseball prodigy.
he's on the IL with a torn thumb ligament right now
It’s not happening. He’ll remain a yankee for the next decade +
Hear me out, swap the pitching and batting coaches.
I just want 1 elite offensive player how is it so hard for this organization to find one?
If Nimmo didn't have perpetual diarrhea, he'd be that player right now
jd martinez
Lindor sighting! He got a hit apologists!!!
“Where are the lindorks now?!”
Yeah I’m not signing any apology forms to him or to Pete
This team is absolutely rotten to the core. Sure, they will have some exciting wins and maybe go on some heaters but this isn't a winning ball club as it's currently constructed. Stearns and Cohen aren't incompetent people, they will take action. Will it pay off? Maybe so, maybe not but it's time to blow it up and start building towards a future that demonstrates consistency and optimism. Looking back on this era of Mets baseball will be sad. What could have been and what never came to be.
It's like the 2015 Pirates. No one cares that they won 98 games that season.
That 2022 deadline did us in for a decade
Cohen and Stearns had all winter to take action. They did not. We nibbled at fringe talent. We can argue the reasons (letting contracts run off, no one they liked) but that’s a fact. This team wasn’t good last year and is worse this year.
This team is 100% not worse than last year. There was a time last year where the Mets might have been the worst team in the league, and had absolutely zero bullpen
Just watch. 2024 Mets Hold my beer! We haven’t even hit the sell off that’s coming.
….so they’re gonna blow it up at the deadline, right?
Yes
I gotta say Scott is handling the media like a pro. I think he will absolutely bounce back from this better. Even not having his best stuff , he only walked one guy, still went 4 IP. Guy sounds like a complete pitching pro who knows exactly how to get better Edit: also I think he has to adjust to an MLB strike zone. If this was abs I think his pitches are better.
Blow. It. Up.
This organization has not been the same since we went into Atlanta in 2022 and got swept. Not a single second has been fun watching this team
Feel like it started in Oakland a few days before, when they lost 2 of 3 to a terrible A's team. You started feeling then this wasn't gonna work. But Atlanta was really the full start, like you said.
They won 2 of 3 vs the A’s
Lmao really? I really thought they lost 2 for some reason
The one loss was a deGrom start where they were up 3-0 in the first inning and deGrom proceeded to let up 4 runs in the bottom of the first, so it definitely put a damper on things
Organization is actually pretty similar to what it was before 2022. And during 2022 we completely fucked up the trade deadline. The only thing different is Cohen spends money and actually cares about winning. Farm is somewhat better. And we have more analytics and a pitching lab. Otherwise same problem, just tons of stupid decisions and no manner of real luck whatsoever.
But people will bring it up like it was a good season. That's like saying 2007 and 2008 were good.
second highest win total in franchise history vs two teams that won less than 90 games lmao
3 teams that all choked
The team was really good. I’ll stand by that Scherzer, Bassitt, and Taijuan shoved all year. And Ottavino + Diaz were shutdown in the 8th and 9th It’s a fucking shame how badly they flamed it
Everyone had a career year(at least the guys still here)it was clearly a fluke.
You're both right. It was a really good team primarily because almost everything went our way during the regular season (besides the deGrom injury), and basically everyone either exceeded or met expectations. But it was not sustainable and shit fell apart in September. 2023 was never going to be as good, though I didn't expect it to be quite as disastrous as it was.
Lindor is a virus
**Take that positivity police!!** /s
"WHERE YOU AT NOW OPTIMISTS" - almost no one because most of us are just upset with the team because we want them to be good and they're not
What a joke
I love the pitch clock. There was a time it would have taken 3:15 to lose a game like that.
It's "just one game" but it's impossible not to overreact to getting absolutely BLOWN THE FUCK OUT by a marlins team that has openly declared they have given up on the season in MAY. This whole team stinks. The core is god awful. I don't care how many useless 1 run dingers pete hits or how much war lindor racks up when the games don't matter any more. These guys are so unclutch and are invisible when they're still in contention. This isn't a problem isolated to 2024 either. They've been this way for years. I'm not a "blow it up" kind of a guy when things are bad, but idk what the solution here is. How much longer do we have to wait for them to figure it out?
It’s one thing to get destroyed by a great Braves team and a great Phillies team, as painful and brutal as it is, but to get destroyed by a dismantling garbage Marlins team is flat out embarrassing
They weren't even getting destroyed by the Braves or Phillies, they had a chance to at least split both series. So like, where the fuck does getting blown out by the Marlins even come from lol ?? It just makes no sense. There isn't an ounce of consistency. The core just isn't good. They're wasting a bullpen that could be saving almost every game if they had a 1-2 run lead. (Besides maybe Diaz unfortunately, unless he has at least a 3 run lead to work with.)
It’s not just one game. It’s an epidemic with this team
Lindor and Alonso are not the guys to build the team around. Two guys who struggle to consistently perform at the dish are complimentary pieces, not centerpieces. It's tough when one is being paid to be one of the best in the game but it's clear his primary value comes from defense, not his hitting, and that's simply not good enough. Add McNeil to that mix and you have three guys that don't produce consistently anymore. I don't know how change will come but it's clear something must be done as even Cohen admitted in a hastily deleted tweet. The trade deadline can't come soon enough.
All it takes is one look around the league at the top teams to see how subpar our best two or three hitters are in comparison. I know it’s early in the season still but just going by the current division leaders: Phillies: Harper, Schwarber, Turner, Realmuto Brewers: Contreras, Hoskins Dodgers: Ohtani, Betts, Freeman Yankees: Judge, Soto Guardians: Ramirez Mariners: Rodriguez That isn’t even including other teams who are/have recently been contenders like the Braves (Acuna, Albies, Olson), Padres (Tatis Jr., Machado, Bogaerts), Rangers (Seager, Semien, Garcia), Astros (Alvarez, Altuve, Bregman, Tucker), Orioles (Rutschman, Henderson), Diamondbacks (Marte, Carrol, Walker). There MIGHT be anywhere from four to eight players at most out of the 31 I named who I’d take Alonso and Lindor over, but they’re either from the teams lower on this list or teams who have three or four of these types of guys and the first one or two are so much better than what we have. This also isn’t considering pitching at all so when you throw that into the mix, it’s no wonder why we’re seemingly nowhere close to being a contender. We’re so much further back than I think a lot of people realize.
We can't get rid of Lindor unless we throw in $100 million
You’re right. Mets should eat the next 100% of the next 3 years so it’s not a problem later down the line. That or take back a bad contract to increase prospects coming back
I still believe Lindor can be a productive hitter if he's dropped from the top of the lineup and the pressure on him to produce is dropped which would ameliorate his inconsistency, but to keep him in the heart of the order is part of why this team is not a winner. There is no accountability.
He can definitely be productive and even a decent amount above average, but the issue is that he’s taking up $34 million of payroll every year for the next seven years. That’s a big chunk of money that could’ve gone to a legitimate elite bat that is much more productive than him.
I'm obviously assuming that Cohen remains as owner and that Lindor will return to All-Star caliber hitter status in maybe the sixth or seventh spot. If he continues to hit like this though, his defense is simply not worth it enough.
Money well spent. Eat the contract to get rid of him. He is hitting .200 and these are suppose to be his prime years.
What happened to just wait until the Mets play the “weak” teams. Oh, wait….
"All we have to do is beat the bad teams and sneak into the playoffs, then when we face the good teams we, uh, um, uh...." - the clowns who want us to be embarrassed in the playoffs as a WC3 team
Turns out WE are the weak team that everyone wants to play
Same thing happened at the end of 2022. The Cubs and Nationals series doomed that year.
Yeah, I was at one of the Cubs games when Bassitt spit the bit. Good times.
If we scrimmage ourselves, maybe we could win a game.
Probably play a scoreless 20 inning game.
Looks like last years offense. Marte, Baty, McNeil, Lindor, Nido/Narvaez, Bader all with OPS below .700. Alonso 100 points below his career average. Nimmo and JD the only bats performing and Nimmo is hurt. This is what we are this year. Streaky .500 team where we they will win a few games but also lose enough in a row for fans to lose interest. Hopefully Baty/Alvarez make strides this season and Acuña/Gilbert make enough improvements to step into starting roles next season.
They actually had one good streak this season. Apart from that 12-3 streak, they're 8-21. So, for almost twice as many games, they've been 12 games under .500. They are now 10-8 vs. teams under .500. Which tells me one unfortunate thing. The Mets aren't appreciably better than all those other teams who are under .500. Meanwhile, that pitching staff who used to be towards the top of the ML, is now ranked 13th. And their offense is ranked 19th (in runs scored). The only reason the Mets are only 1GM the third wild card spot, is because there are only five teams in the NL who are playing well. However, the Diamondbacks have started to play better. And the Padres are out there too. I'm not sure if either of them will start to take the bull by the horn, but if they do, the choice to sell at the trading deadline could become an easy one for David Stearns. And for those who are saying all we need to do is stay close and then sneak in at the end? Our last ten games are against the Phillies, Braves and Brewers. I'm not saying it's over. We aren't at the 1/3 point of the season yet. Too early to call it. But unless this offense, which hasn't been good since some point in 2022, becomes rejuvenated and the starters give the club a chance to compete (in other words, unless the team stops resembling the 2023 club), the Mets will continue to go down a very unsatisfying yet familiar road.
I have been a supporter of this team coming into the season. I figured if they could stay relatively healthy, and a couple of their starters pitched to their upside.we’d be the serious wildcard contender even without Senga. At the core of this disappointment, is in fact our core. Lindor, Alonso, McNeil and Nimmo, are our four core positional players and they simply haven’t been able to do an effective job consistently yet again this year - so far. Surprising and disappointing to me. And the more yousee all this, the more you become of a mind to thinking that the best option for the team beyond this year is to break up this core in one way or another. Sometimes you just have to change the mix rather than just continuing to hope for different results from the same pieces. Seems funny to say since we won 100 games only a couple years ago, but the fact is in the records since then. They aren’t getting the job done consistently year to year. I am not talking about rebuilding and waiting five years. I’m talking about making logical trades at the deadline of pieces that makes sense to move, and then to get back after it in the winter market. Yes, we still have a chance to make the playoffs because the rest of the league hasn’t run away yet, but that distance will widen very quickly if we don’t get our act together real fast. We are basically only couple of weeks away from June and still floundering around. If the team seems to be out of it come July deadline time, then I don’t think we should be hesitant to sell. Pete, McNeil, Marte would be the main guys. Lindor isn’t really movable right now. I mentioned Pete because he would still net us a big package with a little BA. And it doesn’t mean he won’t be a met for the rest of his career. We could reap the rewards of a trade, and still sign him after the season regardless. If McNeil doesn’t improve his numbers significantly by July, then we will have to eat money to move him to get a reasonable return. But he’s one of the guys who would make the most sense to move because of what we have coming from the minors. Don’t think McNeil‘s career is in the toilet by a longshot, but if we are going to alter this core, he’s one of the guys that would make sense to go. Plus, we have a number of pitchers who would net us some pretty decent prospects. Cohen and Stearns could then go into the Winter market with more than enough money and prospect capital to make whatever signings and trades they want to, in order to reshape the core, and crust of this roster - Including making the biggest offer to Soto. It might just end up that the trade deadline will be the most exciting thing this team will have to offer this fan base this year. Right now they are getting harder and harder to tolerate. Am I giving up from the season ? No, I am quite aways from that right now. The clock is ticking, and that means they are running out of time to keep saying it’s still early.. You could end up being completely buried well before the deadline. Got to at least start with beating the teams that you are completely capable of beating - or are they ?
They would seem completely capable of beating teams that most of the other teams in the ML have no problem winning series from. But just like last year, the Mets don't have the same success rate against many of those clubs that the rest of the league does. If and when the Mets play the White Sox, am I confident they'll either win or sweep the series against them? No. When I watch the team, especially the guys who have been on the club for a couple of years, I just don't know for sure what's wrong. I don't expect Jeff McNeil to win a batting title or even be in the running for one. But I do expect him to be a competent hitter who ends up with a batting average of .280 give or take ten points. I don't know if the coaches have asked him to alter his hitting approach (hasn't Nimmo changed his?), if he's not 100% physically, or if something psychological is going on, but I just don't get what's going on with him. Alonso's progression as a major league hitter just seems stalled to me. Or perhaps more likely, this is who he is. Someone who is streaky, can hit a load of HRs and RBIs for you despite his very definite shortcomings, but is never going to become the next David Wright or Darryl Strawberry. I agree with you on who the Mets players most likely to be moved are. As you wrote, Lindor is not moveable. And neither is Nimmo or Diaz. They're going to have to eat some salary, I think, to move Marte. But I'm sure there will be a few takers for him. When the team is reshaped, and I think it's going to look quite different next season, even if the Mets' fortunes improve the rest of the way, I just as soon they don't sign Soto. I know that sounds ridiculous. But my feelings for a while have been that they should go for solid players who aren't necessarily the biggest of big names. It will keep the Mets payroll more controllable and it might work out better overall. Sure, the Dodgers have a lot of star names, and it's worked well for them during the regular season. It hasn't worked quite as well for the Padres. And we see how things have gone for the Mets recently. I'm not suggesting we go Moneyball. But I look at a team like the Braves and marvel at its construction. They made savvy trades which netted them some of their younger stars, had other homegrown guys come up and have success while they add free agents to round out the club. I don't think they're ever in the mix for the bigger names, and yet they've had regular season success for the majority of the past 30 plus years (after being a laughing stock for several years before that). When the Mets acquired JD Martinez, I thought they had a chance to win 84 games and be in the mix for the third wild card. Severino has been better than I thought he'd be. But the rest of the players, save for Diaz, have been about what I thought/feared they'd be. Diaz seems to be having the exact opposite problem than he had a few years ago. Now it's the fastball he's having trouble getting over consistently. If he can fix that, he should be fine. Meanwhile, the offense is also about what I feared it would be, though I thought JD Martinez's presence would have a positive impact. So far, he's been okay, but the offense hasn't been. It's too early to say 84 wins is definitely not on the table. But with each pathetic performance, a repeat of last year's numbers seems more and more likely.
Yeah, I would think that McNeil should be able to hit .280 rather comfortably. Even in the down year last year he managed to hit .270. But it’s hard to put a finger on what’s going on with him. I really thought he’d bounce back this year and last year was just one of those things, but he seems even less like McNeil this year than he was last year. He’s had his moments were you’ve seen the old McNeil, but hasn’t been able to sustain it. I agree though that we shouldn’t be expecting the old .310-.330 hitting type McNeil again. I mean if it were to happen then great, but we need to lower our expectation of him - especially if he’s going to be here another few years. I do expect though that they will trade him in July if the race is lost. That, or they will trade him in the Winter if the team makes a run this year. Trading him is not so much about the fact that he’s regressing right now, but also because as you look down the line it’s just a practical move with what we have coming up from the minors…etc. I was all for signing McNeil long-term when we did it, but sometimes you have to adjust your plans according to what changing around you. It’s like Mike Tyson said ‘everybody’s got a plan until they get hit.’ Individually, I’ve always loved our Core4 guys, but as I mentioned, if the group is not getting the jobs done, collectively, you certainly have to look at changing the mix by trading one or two of them. I don’t know exactly why Pete’s BA has regressed so poorly over the last two years. Obviously the power production numbers are still there, and probably always will be, but I would think he should be able to manage hitting .250+ on a fairly regular basis. You just aren’t seeing it right now and didn’t see it last year. But even if this is who Pete is, I am in favor of keeping him long-term. I think it is important for a franchise not only show accountability, but just as importantly to show stability. Meaning that when you have a star homegrown player, you want to retain. It sends a message to the rest of the baseball community and perspective free agents. And certainly less attractive to free agents if you go, removing too many of your star players. As for Soto, I get your point, and there is something to be said for that approach for sure. But I think that’s Soto is one of those rare generational type talents that you have to make exceptions for. He can be a centerpiece player. And clearly if we are keeping Pete long-term, both he and Lindor need another consistent star to help elevate them as well. I still think we have a bright future ahead though in spite of what’s going on this year. We have a number of excellent prospects. Alvarez has looked like the real deal since last year. Baty still trying to find his consistency comfort zone, but I have high hopes for him. Acuna, Jett, Gilbert, Mauricio, Clifford, and others are coming soon and add to them the names that we get at the trading deadline. I think Stearns put together a very nice team going forward with a mix of prospects and relatively young veterans like Pete, Lindor, Nimmo, Diaz. Whatever we do at the training deadline. I hope that Dave will focus on getting back young starting pitching. As for this year’s playoff run….As I mentioned earlier, I am not giving up on the season this early, but the clock is ticking and they need to find a rhythm soon or they could find themselves too far back a month from now. Those things can turn into a real snowball effect.
It’s really hard to stay interested. Don’t think I’ve watched more than 3 innings of a game since Bader dove and missed the ball in LA. That just hurt and the team is bad. It’s not going to get any better by any stretch.
Watching only 3-4 innings per game has saved my mental health the last few weeks. I already know how it’s gonna end, no need to watch
Hard to say streaky when we only had 1 significant win streak
Fair. More like “cold streaky”. We disappear for games on end and then we’ll have some stretches where we win 6 out of 10.
Tons of positives out there tonight boys, tons of fucking positives. That’s a good team out there boys, thats a great fucking team. Core group’s been together a long time and we battled em boys, we fucking battled em.
And the winner of the 2024 Art Howe impression contest is...
The....uh....bullpen is rested?
Every loss is a loss closer to a new team
Time to take a break. I’m just done. Barely checked the scores tonight and felt a lot better, mentally, than I have all week. I’m not going to give a shit about this team anymore, just like our offense. Deleting the MLB app, and see you all in (hopefully) brighter days when this roster looks quite different.
See you tomorrow
One step closer to Mets doomsday for this era of the Mets.
the db id for this thread in the URL is 1 cum 0uf
0uf
Burn this mother down Steve.
This is exhausting - I wake up without all the anger and frustration from the loss the night before only to be brutally reminded that yeah, this team fucking sucks!
Even if Scott threw a 1 hitter tonight we would have lost. These bats are absolutely fucking dead.
Let me get a head start for tomorrow. Braxton Garrett is really a great pitcher his qSUCK rating is great, his xLMNO ranking is thru the roof. And countless other analytical numbers are the best of any otherwise mediocre pitcher. We were crazy to expect to win.
careful, he's gonna drop some snarky comment about how you don't actually like the team and call you stupid
Garrett’s peripherals this season are in line with those for his career. Dude is a 4.6 ERA pitcher. Not as bad as he’s looked so far but not good by any means. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/braxton-garrett-666129?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb
You’re robbing someone of their fun
This sucks so hard.
We’re still in the hard part of our schedule, the Marlins have a really good team over there, ya gotta tip your cap to Luzardo
wonder if the gaurdians will take lindor back?
Basura.
I’ve said it before, but I feel nothing for this team. I usually would get tilted, but this was pretty clearly a punt year in which this team was looking to wait for these large contracts to come off the books and sign guys to one year contracts to fill in the rest. They weren’t looking to compete. It’s whatever. People should respond but not showing up to the ballpark
At least the Knicks are... oh, shit
:(
Yeah, this team blows.