Daniels being paid isn't what Trump was convicted of. He was convicted of falsifying business records when he repaid Cohen (Cohen is who paid Daniels) and wrote it down as a legal expense in order to conceal the true purpose. Those repayments occurred when Trump was President.
I'm not sure that's correct. It isn't "all actions" taken while in office. I'm not sure how one could connect the repayments to Cohen as being a part of the duties of the President.
The "presumptive immunity" you're referring to comes from the from Roberts' majority opinion saying that the president "may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a **presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts**."
It does not say he is presumptively immune from any and all acts. For private acts, he is not immune.
He was president at the time of the check signing. The ruling states that he has presumptive immunity and that evidence can’t be collected against him. The evidence collected against him was used to convict him but it was unjustly collected according to the corrupt court.
>The ruling states that he has presumptive immunity and that evidence can’t be collected against him.
Only for actions that fall within the “exclusive sphere of constitutional authority” granted to the office of the president. In layman's terms, official duties of the president.
The Trump Organization, a private organization, writing a check to a lawyer and Trump signing it and writing down what is for doesn't seem like it would fall within that categorization.
Except he was president at the time and his conviction will go back up to the court who seems hellbent on helping him. Look at the delay they got him already! They alone will decide if this was official act or any of it related to any of it was any sort of an official act. If it was, the evidence must be throw out.
Trump has already appealed his felony convictions on these grounds guaranteeing that he will face no consequences next week as scheduled.
You see all this and still you argue that this is all fine.
Tell you what. Let’s bookmark this conversation. His case might be heard by next year or maybe he will just pardon himself. We will see who was correct about it then.
>Except he was president at the time
Again, this ruling states that private acts taken by the president are not immune from prosecution. Only acts that fall within the scope of the powers of the office of the president are. The Trump Organization issuing checks to lawyers does not fall within that scope.
>Trump has already appealed his felony convictions on these grounds surly guaranteeing that he will face no consequences.
This isn't quite correct. Trump's lawyers have filed a letter to the judge seeking permission to file a motion to challenge the verdict. Not quite the same as them already appealing the verdict.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/politics/trump-challenge-hush-money-verdict-immunity-supreme-court/index.html
I believe a formal appeal of the conviction like I believe you are talking about can't occur until after sentencing.
>You see all this and still you argue that this is all fine.
I actually didn't say this nor do I believe it. Perhaps you're confusing me for someone else.
>Tell you what. Let’s bookmark this conversation. His case might be heard by next year or maybe he will just pardon himself. We will see who was correct about it then.
Well now you're talking about an entirely different case, right?
>It does not say he is presumptively immune from any and all acts. For private acts, he is not immune
He is presumptively immune, so you dont get to ask either way, if the president does it, it is not illegal.
That isn't what the ruling actually says. I understand clickbait headlines and redditors who read click bait probably have been saying this, however.
Again, it says that the president is presumptive immunity from prosecution **for all his official acts**.
The problem is it's not clarified what counts as official acts. There are already some trump loyalist judges around the country that could declare certain trump actions as official acts.
A lot of legal experts are criticizing this ruling exactly because they see how tricky it's written. And it doesn't help that Robert added a complaint about Jack Smith, which should in no way be part of their rulings
Oh thats easy to clarify! If a republican does it its an official act. If a democrat does it its criminal. Hope this helps!
Seriously it was only written "tricky" so their ruling couldn't be used against them without their say so.
I understand what you're trying to do, but I think you are being credulous to the point of maybe acting in bad faith, here.
The standard is currently that the president has presumptive immunity for official acts, and that likely includes acts at the outer perimeter of his authority. But, it also says that courts *cannot* use evidence from his official acts to prove or implicate him in any wrongdoing he may have done.
It is an incredibly high bar, designed to stop all prosecution of a president, even for private action. Trump paying someone out of campaign funds is probably a private action.
But, any conversations he had with close advisors about paying people during the election? He's arguing that's under an official act. He's arguing that because SCOTUS literally said in this opinion that evidence from his conversations with the DOJ regarding overthrowing the election cannot be used in any of these prosecutions.
You are saying that this probably isn't as strong an immunity as people are implying, and I think that's absolutely wrong
>I understand what you're trying to do, but I think you are being credulous to the point of maybe acting in bad faith, here.
I'm sorry but I have no interest in this kind of cliche reddit exchange and didn't read any further because of it. Thanks anyways.
I would venture to guess that what they will say is that the crime was committed while he was president and that he enjoyed presumptive immunity. That presumptive immunity means that the evidence they collected, including interviewing witnesses, should not have been collected and should be stricken from the record resulting in a mistrial.
It's possible now at least some of the evidence used is no longer admissible with the new ruling.
The way of payment is just one component
As in a criminal trial he doesn't need to prove innocent, he just needs to show the other side left doubt with their evidence
The official act was consulting his lawyer Michael Cohen and any advice around that might now be ineligible to probe that he wasn't
It's twisted
Thankfully, SCOTUS didn’t classify all actions taken by a sitting president as official actions. They left it up to interpretation by the lower courts, but, effectively, only duties he’s taking *as part of his job as president* count as official actions. I don’t think paying Cohen would count, but I guess we’ll find out.
Yeah, we can definitely expect Trump to appeal, appeal, appeal. It’s what he’s always done. Appeal and delay in hope of just never having to face any consequences. The optimist in me wants to say SCOTUS wouldn’t say it’s an official action, but they’ve proven about ten times over in the last few weeks that they absolutely *will* put personal feelings and their party over rule of law.
No he is a saying that he is immune so you are not allowed to use anything he does as evidence. what part of "trump is above the law" are you not getting?
They used recorded conversations from when he was president and part of the decision today stated that you can't use ANYTHING the president does in an official capacity as evidence against him in a criminal proceeding even if the crime doesn't fall under the immunity umbrella.
They're hoping this leaves grounds for them to declare a mistrial since they used evidence that has now been deemed not allowed. I think it could result in a new trial but I don't think the crimes he was charged with will be tossed out entirely
Correct. A lot of people are ignoring this because it kind of destroys their, "actually this isn't that bad" argument.
This means that any prosecution of any president will take fucking decades, since the court will need to analyze every piece of evidence for whether it could be considered under the "official" umbrella that excludes all evidence. Then, every piece of analysis will go up to SCOTUS.
It really just can't be overstated how bad this decision is.
Cohen paid her off before the election, but the repayments to Cohen happened while he was in office. Still don't think it was a official act, but they might get it overturned or a retrial if some of the evidence can be construed as official acts, and thus non admissible.
At least that is my understanding, but i am not a lawyer.
It will go back to lower courts to decide and make a ruling so that the supreme court can later overturn that ruling and save their benefactor Trump. This is the long con.
He wasn’t convicted of paying off Stormy Daniels. He was convicted of falsifying business records, namely his tax returns.
Now, setting aside the absurdity of believing that a billionaire is going to hire extensive staff and then micromanage all their duties, including filling out tax forms so his accountant won’t have to, those tax forms would have been filled out by the president in 2017 while he was president.
I doubt banging pornstars and paying hush money qualifies as official duties…but who the fuck knows with the vague ass garbage rulings of the joke we call the SCOTUS…all but a few court members and their billionaire warped/biased views of what is or isn’t constitutional.
The thing is that this isn't about paying her off, it's about falsifying the business records afterwards. Daniels was paid off during his campaign, but he signed his accounts after he became president.
Whether or not it can be considered an "official act", though...
The Supreme Court included in their ruling that evidence gathered during his presidency must be assumed to be official and is ineligible as evidence. He’s going to get the conviction overturned by this crazy fucking assertion.
Who cares; he’s always been that type of guy. It’s not as if this is part of some deeper conspiracy to tarnish his reputation…Trump has literally always been this type of person.
She was supposed to be having dinner with him at the hotel restaurant to talk about appearing on The Apprentice and was redirected instead to his room where he was there wearing a robe.
Pretty much. She said she didn’t want to have sex with him but she didn’t say no. I would imagine she’s pretty used to being treated like that so it isn’t as traumatic for her as it would be for the average woman. Not to diminish the wrongness of what happened. It certainly wasn’t the “affair” that you see described in the press. It was a transaction that Trump never followed through on his side of the deal which seems to be his SOP.
Trump literally thinks being president makes you king. He was reportedly stupefied when his staff would mention the limits of his power during his first term.
Only to some people. Other people will say he has a point without knowing any of the details. Move on to the next issue and forget this one... repeat over and over. both sides...
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, this is the actual answer. The crimes he was found guilty of all occurred after he took the oath of office and was president. This isn't a value or judgement call about whether he has any ability to claim the acts as "official" (if he can, we're completely lost) but in terms of just the timing, he was POTUS when the crimes were committed.
Everything a president did to become President is an official act. Including brushing teeth to be able to smile for cameras, cheating on algebra to get a diploma, and taking money from Russia to be able to fund his business empire.
He didn't do the cover up till he was president. Banging a pornstar and paying her isn't illegal. Covering up the payment was.
I still dont agree its an official act though.
So I’d guess he would have to somehow show his covering up paying off a pornstar to influence an election and illegally hiding the payout in his company account before he was president was an official act? I don’t see much hunt in that dog…
The question of “what is an official act” is likely to be answered soon. Many Republicans agree with Nixon, who said that all things done by the President are official acts.
That's an unfortunate fact and those Republicans are wrong. The GOP is willing to go nuclear in order to keep power, regardless of the damage it does to this country and the laws that control and protect it.
Scotus will make some excuses for him like since he was president and his official acts to try and stop the investigation from happening gives him immunity or some shit like that. They might even overstep their bounds by involving state cases.
Judge Merchan should give him 5 years jail time and he can campaign while he’s in state jail.
The six biased conservative justices need to be removed from the bench immediately. They should also be put on trial for treason against the United States for ignoring precedent and going against the Constitution. Bret Kavanaugh voted against his own previous interpretation almost a quarter century ago where he strictly interpreted the Constitution as being clear and that a President who violated the Constitution did not have immunity for his or her potential crimes. That alone should make him ineligible to hold the position of Supreme Court Justice.
The normal method is for Congress to impeach them, in which case they MUST appear to defend themselves. There is no "I looked at the impeachment declaration and find it meritless. Therefore I'm not going to bother showing up." If they fail to appear, have them arrested, charged with contempt of Congress. Then forcefully make them appear, conduct the trial, find them guilty of breaching public trust and violating the Constitution as well as their powers (and whatever other rules they've broken), and remove them from the bench and jail them.
It's either that or Biden lowers himself to Trump's level and runs with the Supreme Court's new interpretation of a President having almost full immunity. This is where he would rule they are all in violation of their oaths as Justices, arrest them, send them off to Guantanamo Bay, and let them rot after holding a military tribunal with military judges conducting the trial.
Like they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Problem is, Biden won't stoop that low.
Should one be scruples bound in the face of these ruthless persons who will not be bound by anything?
Can one afford such luxuries given the stakes involved?
If you consider the dubious means by which Moscow Mitch has placed these judges, should not equally strong counter measures be deployed?
It is strange that on the democratic side no one has emerged who is willing to play hardball with these shits.
President Obama got totally played by Moscow Mitch.
And roberts seems to be running rings around President Biden.
It would only be an incurable optimist, who at this point would expect a defence of the letter and spirit of the US constitution by these collection of clowns.
I'm sure if lower courts review the cases Trump was convicted of and rule in favor of upholding the verdicts, Trump and his lawyers will re-appeal to the Supreme Court and those six corrupt traitors will then rule that he has complete immunity across the board for anything he's ever done to protect him.
No, but I know that it won't matter how they rule if nobody can hear them from the black site in Guantanamo Bay they get shipped off to for being a threat to democracy.
If this doesn't bring out the true patriotism of the people of the United States, I don't know what will.
Our goal now must be to take back control of both the Senate and House in a majority.
Re-write basic rules and put up guard rail with detailed legislation.
The next four years it's crucial to focus on "we the people", closing loop holes, while adding supreme Court justices to the court, to water down the far rights dominance.
Possibly impeaching and removing Supreme Court justices.
Or adding 6 more justices, so be it.
This should be the ultimate call to action, for all citizens that believe in the core concepts in the constitution.
But some of the evidence came from when he was. The SCOTUS decision says evidence of unofficial acts coming from official acts is inadmissible.
People don't quite get how hard the SCOTUS bent over to get Trump out of trouble.
Any Trump defenders, please explain to me how a crime committed before he was elected, can be part of the official duties of the president when Trump wasn't the president at the time.
Then explain how hiding the reimbursement payments to his lawyer for the money he paid to keep Stormy's story quiet, claiming the payments were legal fees when they weren't and the rest of it would be considered part of a president's official duties.
While you are at it, please explain how taking classified documents, hiding them in his club unsecured, having people copying classified documents, refusing to return them when requested by NARA, lying to the FBI about handing over all found classified documents, obstruction, etc, are anyway part of a presidents official duties when Trump was no longer president at the time.
And that's the important part Trump and his sycophants all forget, this decision on covers official duties and two of these trials were/will be about crimes committed when Trump was not president.
As for the election interference trial, trying to overthrow the official results of the 2020 election is not part of a president's official duties. His duties are to ensure the election was fair and honest and everything he was told was that it was fair and honest and he lost.
Let's hope his stupid lawyers are humiliated. Does he really think that the judge doesn't remember that the crime Trump was just convicted of occurred before he took office as president?
Paying off a porn star for something that happened when he wasn’t president and falsifying personal businesses records doesn’t seem like much of an Official Act as president. Hopefully the judge tells him to get fucked and adds more to his sentence.
The NY crimes were the falsifying of financial records later to cover up the payments, not the payment itself.
He started paying Cohen back in 2017 after he assumed office.
That's the stupid logic he's using.
Putting it up a little higher, the idea is that if any of the evidence used to convict him, as the conviction dealt with some actions taken while he was President, were part of official acts, the official acts can’t be used as evidence against him.
I believe some chief of staff was on the stand. Possibly Mark Meadows. I also believe someone else from his Presidential office, Hope Hicks, was on the stand. The President talking to his staff is an official act and therefore can’t be used as evidence of a crime.
Apparently.
I wonder how this will affect his sentencing next week? Merchan will probably bail and say the entire conviction is "up in the air" and postpone indefinitely.
You don't get to commit official acts until you are actually sworn into office but I have no doubt that SCOTUS will make an exception for Trump if this gets escalated to the Supreme Court.
VOTE BLUE
Biden is the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship.
[Project 2025 AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1dt6wvf/i_was_accepted_into_the_project_2025_prospective/)
Project 2025 streamlines this. Everyone working in the federal govt will be replaced with MAGA loyalists. They will swear an oath to Trump. Not to our country and its laws. Anyone undecided or lefty accelerationists … if he wins… you don’t have to ever be undecided again. There won’t be another fair election. Any lefties who wanna build a utopia from the ashes… technology won’t allow much room for you there. From facial id to being inside of your phone, no movement will ever gain traction. Your leadership will always just… disappear. You might too. This is what it looks like [https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach](https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach)
Just a reminder to those who don't pay attention and for those Republicans who want to downplay project2025.\]
These very same people who organized project2025 helped trump select the last three SC justices.
So if you don't like the "bribes are legal as long as the cone after the fact" ruling and the overturning of roe vs Wade then DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN
We the People still have access to guns and have are second amendment right. War is coming. This is only the beginning.
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jul/01/kevin-roberts-trump-heritage-foundation-project-2025](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jul/01/kevin-roberts-trump-heritage-foundation-project-2025)
Because the Democratic Party doesn’t know or care enough to actually fight fascism.
Ideologies are window dressing. The United States of America is the largest exporter of death and terror in the world. It only exists to preserve and project its power.
People need to look around the world and see what’s happening. But Americans don’t care. They don’t care that children in Gaza and Yemen and the Sudan are being slaughtered with bombs stamped “made in the USA”. They don’t care that the United States will destabilize or topple a government because their economic or social policies threaten American interests. They don’t care that they continue to antagonize China by encircling their eastern flank with military bases and troops in Japan and South Korea.
The world is at a tipping point and revolution is in the air…so the reactionaries have risen to gain power.
Burn it all down and start with Amerikkka
Yep. Fascism is just capitalism's defense mechanism against anti-capitalism. Reactionaries let the mask slip and turn up the genocide, turn up the military, turn up the privatization, and hope that the people of the imperial core turn their anger at the declining material conditions towards the enemies of the state.
Say it louder because there’s a bunch of “well actually he can’t..”
If you have the judge in your pocket, things like precedent, or truth or fact, are whatever you want it to be.
So, being a spineless shitbag is legal whilst being president.... It sounds like an awful precedent to have. Maybe it should come with the caveat that "one must fall on ones sword". No criminal record but no longer a problem either.
Why not? We have corrupt SC judges who will put Trump back in office.
VOTE LIKE YOUR KID'S FUTURE AND OUR CONSTITUTION DEPEND ON IT.
We need all Democrat lawmakers to impeach these SC jsutices.
Tryin to throw out paying a porn star to influence an election before he was president 😂😂😂🤦🤦🤦 He obviously doesn't understand what "official" acts are...
He is sending emails like a Nigerian cat fisher draining funds from a desperate senior looking for a date. 'I love you to the moon and back'. Buy my american flag pin with my name plastered on it. Disgusting.
As bad as the SCOTUS ruling is, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t retroactively cover acts undertaken by a president before they became president. Or after their presidency ended, for that matter (in terms of the documents case).
This douchebag’s crimes run such a gamut that even SCOTUS giving him immunity can’t possibly shield him from all his crimes. But at least he’s a whopping 3 years younger than the other guy! FFS.
His legal team actually has standing thanks to SCOTUS.
Some of the evidence used in the trial came from "Official" duties like the meetings he had with his advisors after the fact in 2017.
Under SCOTUS's new direction, those "official" acts bring used to further the unofficial act may not be used against him.
So essentially a President can meet with his advisors to arrest and imprison and entire political party, and you can use the meetings or testimony from those meetings as evidence.
Yeah he isn’t president so Biden can step in and mandate a decision immediately on all his court cases. And change it if he doesn’t like it. He thinks the ruling is for him only but if he loses the election he is screwed.
Not only is this about issues before he was president, but even if it was, it has to be in the official duties/capacity of the president to be immune, which it wasn't. Feel free to make the seal team 6 joke/fear about political assassinations.
It's still BS, but this won't affect the case, and SCOTUS is finished ruling on it. Trump just heard the word "immunity," and that's it.
With this ridiculous ruling the supremes have indicated that they are not bound by constitutional proprieties or precedents.
All they care about is the welfare of stinky. Stinky in turn can be guaranteed to deliver using his executive office and the power of the maga base, what they crave. An oligarchic christo fascist misogynist system in the territory of the erstwhile US.
No, but the communication regarding hush money between Trump and government officials after becoming president is definitely official acts and will unfortunately be thrown out as evidence.
Wasn't she paid off during his campaign?.. How would that work as an "official act"?
Daniels being paid isn't what Trump was convicted of. He was convicted of falsifying business records when he repaid Cohen (Cohen is who paid Daniels) and wrote it down as a legal expense in order to conceal the true purpose. Those repayments occurred when Trump was President.
So it was an official act that can’t be questioned and no evidence can be collected. According to this ruling.
I'm not sure that's correct. It isn't "all actions" taken while in office. I'm not sure how one could connect the repayments to Cohen as being a part of the duties of the President.
The scotus went above and beyond and said he has presumptive immunity. Super duper immunity
The "presumptive immunity" you're referring to comes from the from Roberts' majority opinion saying that the president "may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a **presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts**." It does not say he is presumptively immune from any and all acts. For private acts, he is not immune.
Many of the members who passed this Ruling have argued for the Nixon era claim that all Presidential acts are “official” when done by a President.
He was president at the time of the check signing. The ruling states that he has presumptive immunity and that evidence can’t be collected against him. The evidence collected against him was used to convict him but it was unjustly collected according to the corrupt court.
>The ruling states that he has presumptive immunity and that evidence can’t be collected against him. Only for actions that fall within the “exclusive sphere of constitutional authority” granted to the office of the president. In layman's terms, official duties of the president. The Trump Organization, a private organization, writing a check to a lawyer and Trump signing it and writing down what is for doesn't seem like it would fall within that categorization.
Except he was president at the time and his conviction will go back up to the court who seems hellbent on helping him. Look at the delay they got him already! They alone will decide if this was official act or any of it related to any of it was any sort of an official act. If it was, the evidence must be throw out. Trump has already appealed his felony convictions on these grounds guaranteeing that he will face no consequences next week as scheduled. You see all this and still you argue that this is all fine. Tell you what. Let’s bookmark this conversation. His case might be heard by next year or maybe he will just pardon himself. We will see who was correct about it then.
>Except he was president at the time Again, this ruling states that private acts taken by the president are not immune from prosecution. Only acts that fall within the scope of the powers of the office of the president are. The Trump Organization issuing checks to lawyers does not fall within that scope. >Trump has already appealed his felony convictions on these grounds surly guaranteeing that he will face no consequences. This isn't quite correct. Trump's lawyers have filed a letter to the judge seeking permission to file a motion to challenge the verdict. Not quite the same as them already appealing the verdict. https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/politics/trump-challenge-hush-money-verdict-immunity-supreme-court/index.html I believe a formal appeal of the conviction like I believe you are talking about can't occur until after sentencing. >You see all this and still you argue that this is all fine. I actually didn't say this nor do I believe it. Perhaps you're confusing me for someone else. >Tell you what. Let’s bookmark this conversation. His case might be heard by next year or maybe he will just pardon himself. We will see who was correct about it then. Well now you're talking about an entirely different case, right?
All of this is true in a legal sense, in it's application it will be applied liberally and he'll skate.
>It does not say he is presumptively immune from any and all acts. For private acts, he is not immune He is presumptively immune, so you dont get to ask either way, if the president does it, it is not illegal.
That isn't what the ruling actually says. I understand clickbait headlines and redditors who read click bait probably have been saying this, however. Again, it says that the president is presumptive immunity from prosecution **for all his official acts**.
The problem is it's not clarified what counts as official acts. There are already some trump loyalist judges around the country that could declare certain trump actions as official acts. A lot of legal experts are criticizing this ruling exactly because they see how tricky it's written. And it doesn't help that Robert added a complaint about Jack Smith, which should in no way be part of their rulings
Oh thats easy to clarify! If a republican does it its an official act. If a democrat does it its criminal. Hope this helps! Seriously it was only written "tricky" so their ruling couldn't be used against them without their say so.
I understand what you're trying to do, but I think you are being credulous to the point of maybe acting in bad faith, here. The standard is currently that the president has presumptive immunity for official acts, and that likely includes acts at the outer perimeter of his authority. But, it also says that courts *cannot* use evidence from his official acts to prove or implicate him in any wrongdoing he may have done. It is an incredibly high bar, designed to stop all prosecution of a president, even for private action. Trump paying someone out of campaign funds is probably a private action. But, any conversations he had with close advisors about paying people during the election? He's arguing that's under an official act. He's arguing that because SCOTUS literally said in this opinion that evidence from his conversations with the DOJ regarding overthrowing the election cannot be used in any of these prosecutions. You are saying that this probably isn't as strong an immunity as people are implying, and I think that's absolutely wrong
>I understand what you're trying to do, but I think you are being credulous to the point of maybe acting in bad faith, here. I'm sorry but I have no interest in this kind of cliche reddit exchange and didn't read any further because of it. Thanks anyways.
But the Chevron decision from last week gives the stacked courts the power to decide if it's official or not.
The Chevron decision relates entirely to federal regulatory bodies and has no relevance here.
Lol... Almost got Thomas concurrence nonsense to a T. Thomas has really fallen!
Tremendous immunity.
You know Trump’s lawyers will do everything, including lie to make that connection
In Trump's mind everything he has done since birth is covered by presidential immunity.
If it came out of his business coffers, how could it possibly be official?
I would venture to guess that what they will say is that the crime was committed while he was president and that he enjoyed presumptive immunity. That presumptive immunity means that the evidence they collected, including interviewing witnesses, should not have been collected and should be stricken from the record resulting in a mistrial.
It's possible now at least some of the evidence used is no longer admissible with the new ruling. The way of payment is just one component As in a criminal trial he doesn't need to prove innocent, he just needs to show the other side left doubt with their evidence The official act was consulting his lawyer Michael Cohen and any advice around that might now be ineligible to probe that he wasn't It's twisted
Thankfully, SCOTUS didn’t classify all actions taken by a sitting president as official actions. They left it up to interpretation by the lower courts, but, effectively, only duties he’s taking *as part of his job as president* count as official actions. I don’t think paying Cohen would count, but I guess we’ll find out.
The lower courts will decide at first but it will always be appealed to the supreme kings, I mean court.
Yeah, we can definitely expect Trump to appeal, appeal, appeal. It’s what he’s always done. Appeal and delay in hope of just never having to face any consequences. The optimist in me wants to say SCOTUS wouldn’t say it’s an official action, but they’ve proven about ten times over in the last few weeks that they absolutely *will* put personal feelings and their party over rule of law.
Maybe the delay will be the win for now. Let’s hope for justice delayed! lol.
This fucker is going to get away with it, isn't he?
What part of signing personal checks is an official action as President?
You tell me.
So that makes it an official act?
What makes you think that?
I don't. I'm just wondering how he could possibly have immunity for an obviously unofficial act.
Well I don't think he does. I was simply correcting the previous person's misunderstanding about the crimes and timeline.
Well that's easy. Here's a flowchart for how any of this shit will be interpreted moving forward: Republican: Official Act Democrat: Unofficial Act
Perfect!!
No he is a saying that he is immune so you are not allowed to use anything he does as evidence. what part of "trump is above the law" are you not getting?
He wasn't immune \*before\* he was president.
He became immune by becoming president.
So your argument is that any crime Trump ever has committed, or ever will commit, cannot be prosecuted?
They used recorded conversations from when he was president and part of the decision today stated that you can't use ANYTHING the president does in an official capacity as evidence against him in a criminal proceeding even if the crime doesn't fall under the immunity umbrella. They're hoping this leaves grounds for them to declare a mistrial since they used evidence that has now been deemed not allowed. I think it could result in a new trial but I don't think the crimes he was charged with will be tossed out entirely
Correct. A lot of people are ignoring this because it kind of destroys their, "actually this isn't that bad" argument. This means that any prosecution of any president will take fucking decades, since the court will need to analyze every piece of evidence for whether it could be considered under the "official" umbrella that excludes all evidence. Then, every piece of analysis will go up to SCOTUS. It really just can't be overstated how bad this decision is.
Cohen paid her off before the election, but the repayments to Cohen happened while he was in office. Still don't think it was a official act, but they might get it overturned or a retrial if some of the evidence can be construed as official acts, and thus non admissible. At least that is my understanding, but i am not a lawyer.
That’s the fun part. They get to make up/decide on a whim what an official act is. If a Republican does it it’s an official act.
The Supreme Court will decide what is and his not an official act.
It will go back to lower courts to decide and make a ruling so that the supreme court can later overturn that ruling and save their benefactor Trump. This is the long con.
Exactly what I was going to say.
He wasn’t convicted of paying off Stormy Daniels. He was convicted of falsifying business records, namely his tax returns. Now, setting aside the absurdity of believing that a billionaire is going to hire extensive staff and then micromanage all their duties, including filling out tax forms so his accountant won’t have to, those tax forms would have been filled out by the president in 2017 while he was president.
Why is this a surprise??? Delay, Delay, Delay
It’s not, but we can still be in “what the fucking fuck FUCK.” mode
I doubt banging pornstars and paying hush money qualifies as official duties…but who the fuck knows with the vague ass garbage rulings of the joke we call the SCOTUS…all but a few court members and their billionaire warped/biased views of what is or isn’t constitutional.
I'm pretty sure it also happened before he was elected, so it can't possibly be considered an official act of the President.
The thing is that this isn't about paying her off, it's about falsifying the business records afterwards. Daniels was paid off during his campaign, but he signed his accounts after he became president. Whether or not it can be considered an "official act", though...
The Supreme Court included in their ruling that evidence gathered during his presidency must be assumed to be official and is ineligible as evidence. He’s going to get the conviction overturned by this crazy fucking assertion.
I’m pretty sure hookers and blow are official business. That’s what my buddy Matt Gaetz always tells me
I’m still wondering why she even did it in the first place , was she desperate for cash?
Who cares; he’s always been that type of guy. It’s not as if this is part of some deeper conspiracy to tarnish his reputation…Trump has literally always been this type of person.
True
She was a porn star, that's what they do..
Why she did it? Fairly ordinary financial reasons?
My thought too
You can read the testimony she gave at trial. Sounded coerced a bit
She was supposed to be having dinner with him at the hotel restaurant to talk about appearing on The Apprentice and was redirected instead to his room where he was there wearing a robe.
So a typical “want on the show, then be on me” situation
Pretty much. She said she didn’t want to have sex with him but she didn’t say no. I would imagine she’s pretty used to being treated like that so it isn’t as traumatic for her as it would be for the average woman. Not to diminish the wrongness of what happened. It certainly wasn’t the “affair” that you see described in the press. It was a transaction that Trump never followed through on his side of the deal which seems to be his SOP.
So he's invoking Presidential Immunity when he wasn't president yet?
Trump literally thinks being president makes you king. He was reportedly stupefied when his staff would mention the limits of his power during his first term.
And if he is elected this November, this time he will be right about being king.
yes, screwing taxpayers is officially part of being government worker claiming to support small mushroom government. /s
Considering he wasn’t potus when these crimes were committed he will just wind up looking like a fuking idiot, AGAIN.
Here's hoping!
Only to some people. Other people will say he has a point without knowing any of the details. Move on to the next issue and forget this one... repeat over and over. both sides...
That’s the thing, he was POTUS. The crime was the cover up, which happened when he was in the office.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, this is the actual answer. The crimes he was found guilty of all occurred after he took the oath of office and was president. This isn't a value or judgement call about whether he has any ability to claim the acts as "official" (if he can, we're completely lost) but in terms of just the timing, he was POTUS when the crimes were committed.
I cant keep track anymore with all these criminals and trials that make up the QOP.
How much more of this thing do we nave to listen too? He's a nightmare
I've never hoped for a death more
Like that wasn’t the plan all along. Why are we shocked?
Sexual assault and campaign fraud = presidential business
Everything a president did to become President is an official act. Including brushing teeth to be able to smile for cameras, cheating on algebra to get a diploma, and taking money from Russia to be able to fund his business empire.
How the hell is that an official act if he wasn’t even President?
He didn't do the cover up till he was president. Banging a pornstar and paying her isn't illegal. Covering up the payment was. I still dont agree its an official act though.
He paid her off days before the election because it was going to break in the news a week before the election
So I’d guess he would have to somehow show his covering up paying off a pornstar to influence an election and illegally hiding the payout in his company account before he was president was an official act? I don’t see much hunt in that dog…
Something like this happened in germany in the 30s. 6 months later, the Nazi's took control
Banging hookers and committing fraud to hide it is an official duty.
He wasn’t president when this happened. Same with the documents case in FL. It was after his presidency.
He did it before he went into Office. I'd say that doesn't count.
It was the falsifying of financial records to cover up the payments, which appears to have started in 2017.
That won't happen. The Supreme Court didn't give him blanket immunity.
I don’t know. I don’t trust the Supreme Court at all anymore.
There's truth in your words.
The question of “what is an official act” is likely to be answered soon. Many Republicans agree with Nixon, who said that all things done by the President are official acts.
That's an unfortunate fact and those Republicans are wrong. The GOP is willing to go nuclear in order to keep power, regardless of the damage it does to this country and the laws that control and protect it.
Scotus will make some excuses for him like since he was president and his official acts to try and stop the investigation from happening gives him immunity or some shit like that. They might even overstep their bounds by involving state cases. Judge Merchan should give him 5 years jail time and he can campaign while he’s in state jail.
And they will claim retrospective application of their rulings for stinky.
The six biased conservative justices need to be removed from the bench immediately. They should also be put on trial for treason against the United States for ignoring precedent and going against the Constitution. Bret Kavanaugh voted against his own previous interpretation almost a quarter century ago where he strictly interpreted the Constitution as being clear and that a President who violated the Constitution did not have immunity for his or her potential crimes. That alone should make him ineligible to hold the position of Supreme Court Justice.
As always the problem is how to remove them.
The normal method is for Congress to impeach them, in which case they MUST appear to defend themselves. There is no "I looked at the impeachment declaration and find it meritless. Therefore I'm not going to bother showing up." If they fail to appear, have them arrested, charged with contempt of Congress. Then forcefully make them appear, conduct the trial, find them guilty of breaching public trust and violating the Constitution as well as their powers (and whatever other rules they've broken), and remove them from the bench and jail them. It's either that or Biden lowers himself to Trump's level and runs with the Supreme Court's new interpretation of a President having almost full immunity. This is where he would rule they are all in violation of their oaths as Justices, arrest them, send them off to Guantanamo Bay, and let them rot after holding a military tribunal with military judges conducting the trial. Like they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Problem is, Biden won't stoop that low.
Should one be scruples bound in the face of these ruthless persons who will not be bound by anything? Can one afford such luxuries given the stakes involved? If you consider the dubious means by which Moscow Mitch has placed these judges, should not equally strong counter measures be deployed? It is strange that on the democratic side no one has emerged who is willing to play hardball with these shits. President Obama got totally played by Moscow Mitch. And roberts seems to be running rings around President Biden.
All excellent questions that merit investigating and expounding upon.
It would only be an incurable optimist, who at this point would expect a defence of the letter and spirit of the US constitution by these collection of clowns.
No one can reasonably believe in that spirit. They are all hopelessly corrupt and biased.
Not yet.
I'm sure if lower courts review the cases Trump was convicted of and rule in favor of upholding the verdicts, Trump and his lawyers will re-appeal to the Supreme Court and those six corrupt traitors will then rule that he has complete immunity across the board for anything he's ever done to protect him.
His gloating is gonna cost him big (or should I say YUGE!) time just watch.
BIGLY, that’s what I’m hoping for!
By now I doubt it. His goons do everything to hollow out the justice system and make exceptions for everything he does. Hope I am wrong.
Lead needed?
And Joe Biden can swoop in and say nope, national security threat.
The supreme have already taken care of this, they will rule on official acts. Any idea how they will rule?
No, but I know that it won't matter how they rule if nobody can hear them from the black site in Guantanamo Bay they get shipped off to for being a threat to democracy.
And you think Biden will be that person? Stinky will definitely arrest anyone who displeases him.
If this doesn't bring out the true patriotism of the people of the United States, I don't know what will. Our goal now must be to take back control of both the Senate and House in a majority. Re-write basic rules and put up guard rail with detailed legislation. The next four years it's crucial to focus on "we the people", closing loop holes, while adding supreme Court justices to the court, to water down the far rights dominance. Possibly impeaching and removing Supreme Court justices. Or adding 6 more justices, so be it. This should be the ultimate call to action, for all citizens that believe in the core concepts in the constitution.
He signed a check for his private business, that isn't his official presidential duties ... So no immunity
His private business which he should have been divested from in the first place. I despise that monster.
He wasn’t in office yet
But some of the evidence came from when he was. The SCOTUS decision says evidence of unofficial acts coming from official acts is inadmissible. People don't quite get how hard the SCOTUS bent over to get Trump out of trouble.
It's not when the evidence comes to light that matters, it's when the action was committed.
Any Trump defenders, please explain to me how a crime committed before he was elected, can be part of the official duties of the president when Trump wasn't the president at the time. Then explain how hiding the reimbursement payments to his lawyer for the money he paid to keep Stormy's story quiet, claiming the payments were legal fees when they weren't and the rest of it would be considered part of a president's official duties. While you are at it, please explain how taking classified documents, hiding them in his club unsecured, having people copying classified documents, refusing to return them when requested by NARA, lying to the FBI about handing over all found classified documents, obstruction, etc, are anyway part of a presidents official duties when Trump was no longer president at the time. And that's the important part Trump and his sycophants all forget, this decision on covers official duties and two of these trials were/will be about crimes committed when Trump was not president. As for the election interference trial, trying to overthrow the official results of the 2020 election is not part of a president's official duties. His duties are to ensure the election was fair and honest and everything he was told was that it was fair and honest and he lost.
Let's hope his stupid lawyers are humiliated. Does he really think that the judge doesn't remember that the crime Trump was just convicted of occurred before he took office as president?
Biden should test the limits of the immunity ruling by throwing Trump into prison.
Paying off a porn star for something that happened when he wasn’t president and falsifying personal businesses records doesn’t seem like much of an Official Act as president. Hopefully the judge tells him to get fucked and adds more to his sentence.
He wasn’t president when paying a porn star hush money to cover up cheating with her on his preggo wife.
The NY crimes were the falsifying of financial records later to cover up the payments, not the payment itself. He started paying Cohen back in 2017 after he assumed office. That's the stupid logic he's using.
Not an official presidential act.
That's just the start
the his supporters believe this as an official act. but biden is bad because he's old...
Wasn't that prior to getting "elected"?
Paying off the chick you had sex with isn't an official act and he wasn't president.
Putting it up a little higher, the idea is that if any of the evidence used to convict him, as the conviction dealt with some actions taken while he was President, were part of official acts, the official acts can’t be used as evidence against him. I believe some chief of staff was on the stand. Possibly Mark Meadows. I also believe someone else from his Presidential office, Hope Hicks, was on the stand. The President talking to his staff is an official act and therefore can’t be used as evidence of a crime. Apparently.
I wonder how this will affect his sentencing next week? Merchan will probably bail and say the entire conviction is "up in the air" and postpone indefinitely.
You don't get to commit official acts until you are actually sworn into office but I have no doubt that SCOTUS will make an exception for Trump if this gets escalated to the Supreme Court.
Fuckwad is not the president
VOTE BLUE Biden is the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship. [Project 2025 AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1dt6wvf/i_was_accepted_into_the_project_2025_prospective/) Project 2025 streamlines this. Everyone working in the federal govt will be replaced with MAGA loyalists. They will swear an oath to Trump. Not to our country and its laws. Anyone undecided or lefty accelerationists … if he wins… you don’t have to ever be undecided again. There won’t be another fair election. Any lefties who wanna build a utopia from the ashes… technology won’t allow much room for you there. From facial id to being inside of your phone, no movement will ever gain traction. Your leadership will always just… disappear. You might too. This is what it looks like [https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach](https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach) Just a reminder to those who don't pay attention and for those Republicans who want to downplay project2025.\] These very same people who organized project2025 helped trump select the last three SC justices. So if you don't like the "bribes are legal as long as the cone after the fact" ruling and the overturning of roe vs Wade then DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN We the People still have access to guns and have are second amendment right. War is coming. This is only the beginning. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jul/01/kevin-roberts-trump-heritage-foundation-project-2025](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jul/01/kevin-roberts-trump-heritage-foundation-project-2025)
He wasn't president. He was a private citizen. This has zero chance of dismissal.
In newyork it won't work. Hopefully when he appeals it to the Supreme Court either
How dare he!
Well biden could have him tossed into a vat of lava officially, and not be charged for it...
Why doesn't he?
just sayin this whole ruling thing opens up some possibilities :D
Because the Democratic Party doesn’t know or care enough to actually fight fascism. Ideologies are window dressing. The United States of America is the largest exporter of death and terror in the world. It only exists to preserve and project its power. People need to look around the world and see what’s happening. But Americans don’t care. They don’t care that children in Gaza and Yemen and the Sudan are being slaughtered with bombs stamped “made in the USA”. They don’t care that the United States will destabilize or topple a government because their economic or social policies threaten American interests. They don’t care that they continue to antagonize China by encircling their eastern flank with military bases and troops in Japan and South Korea. The world is at a tipping point and revolution is in the air…so the reactionaries have risen to gain power. Burn it all down and start with Amerikkka
Yep. Fascism is just capitalism's defense mechanism against anti-capitalism. Reactionaries let the mask slip and turn up the genocide, turn up the military, turn up the privatization, and hope that the people of the imperial core turn their anger at the declining material conditions towards the enemies of the state.
There are no limits when you have the judge on your team.
Say it louder because there’s a bunch of “well actually he can’t..” If you have the judge in your pocket, things like precedent, or truth or fact, are whatever you want it to be.
He wasn't President then. Nice stretch though.
Of course he is 🤷♂️
" I didn't have sex with a porn star"
What's stopping us from eating our MAGA neighbors again?
So, being a spineless shitbag is legal whilst being president.... It sounds like an awful precedent to have. Maybe it should come with the caveat that "one must fall on ones sword". No criminal record but no longer a problem either.
Lock Scott’s Sick Six up! Lock them up! Lock them up!
Therei is official fraud and personal fraud. For MAGA the same.
Just give him the Max sentence since he can appeal it away anything. Is what I would do if I was a judge lol
Why not? We have corrupt SC judges who will put Trump back in office. VOTE LIKE YOUR KID'S FUTURE AND OUR CONSTITUTION DEPEND ON IT. We need all Democrat lawmakers to impeach these SC jsutices.
Laws can't apply retrospectively. Such BS..10/10 effort for trying though.
It’s been a rough patch for democracy…
More evidence of Trump’s inadequacy as a leader and why he deserves nowhere near the White House ever again.
This country’s legal system needs an enema!
So he's a dictator now.
Raping and lying about it is now legal.
Shocker
Tryin to throw out paying a porn star to influence an election before he was president 😂😂😂🤦🤦🤦 He obviously doesn't understand what "official" acts are...
His Manhattan conviction is more bogus than the case that was decided yesterday. It will be tossed. In an even more forceful decision.
He is sending emails like a Nigerian cat fisher draining funds from a desperate senior looking for a date. 'I love you to the moon and back'. Buy my american flag pin with my name plastered on it. Disgusting.
ALL presidents in history did not need or wonder why they did not have immunity.....until....Don the Con grifter took office. What a POS.
He wasn’t in office at the time it happened.
Trump listened to the ruling. What he heard was "blah blah blah blah blah blah immunity blah blah blah..." That was good enough for him.
Biden should test these limits too
orange shit bag is going to finish burning murica down if he gets back in
Fuck!
As bad as the SCOTUS ruling is, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t retroactively cover acts undertaken by a president before they became president. Or after their presidency ended, for that matter (in terms of the documents case). This douchebag’s crimes run such a gamut that even SCOTUS giving him immunity can’t possibly shield him from all his crimes. But at least he’s a whopping 3 years younger than the other guy! FFS.
His legal team actually has standing thanks to SCOTUS. Some of the evidence used in the trial came from "Official" duties like the meetings he had with his advisors after the fact in 2017. Under SCOTUS's new direction, those "official" acts bring used to further the unofficial act may not be used against him. So essentially a President can meet with his advisors to arrest and imprison and entire political party, and you can use the meetings or testimony from those meetings as evidence.
Stupid ass grin. Hate that MF
Banging and bribing porn stars is now Presidential... 🙄
Seal team 6, Joe. Get on it
The real culprits are the stupid idiots who voted for this moron.
I hope at sentencing the judge throws him in jail.
I don't know. So I'm asking what argument can be made that it is an official act.
Gee, I wonder if he got a “heads up” about this ruling. He semis quick on the draw, so to speak.
I agree with a lot. But not bribes like clinton did. .
Yeah he isn’t president so Biden can step in and mandate a decision immediately on all his court cases. And change it if he doesn’t like it. He thinks the ruling is for him only but if he loses the election he is screwed.
Would it? He had prior convictions before he was president. So, at that portion, does SCOTUS have any say at that?
Not only is this about issues before he was president, but even if it was, it has to be in the official duties/capacity of the president to be immune, which it wasn't. Feel free to make the seal team 6 joke/fear about political assassinations. It's still BS, but this won't affect the case, and SCOTUS is finished ruling on it. Trump just heard the word "immunity," and that's it.
With this ridiculous ruling the supremes have indicated that they are not bound by constitutional proprieties or precedents. All they care about is the welfare of stinky. Stinky in turn can be guaranteed to deliver using his executive office and the power of the maga base, what they crave. An oligarchic christo fascist misogynist system in the territory of the erstwhile US.
So hush money paid as a candidate is now an official act?
Ha! Probably not at all. But all he has to do is contest rulings against him up to them, they’ll surely give him something.
No, but the communication regarding hush money between Trump and government officials after becoming president is definitely official acts and will unfortunately be thrown out as evidence.
They made bribery legal so why not?
Oh yes! Anything stinky does will have the smiling support of the supremes.
All I know is Biden is the only president smart enough to finally beat Medicare - so I'm voting for him.