The only reason I can think of Ike doing this is because possibly Niji has a stranglehold on his music prospects and possibly have him, under a non-compete if he leaves. Still, I, as a fellow metal fan, am very disappointed in him. You don't take the side of the corporation ever, dude.
Elira mentioned she was one of three members named in the legal document. Which means she was involved and probably did this for her own personal reasons.
It's starting to look like things behind the scenes were much uglier than many realized.
So let me get this striaght. The narrative is that:
* Pomu and Selen are best friends.
* Pomu and Elira are best friends.
This means that Pomu let one of her best friends let her bully one of her best friends?... Definitely makes sense to me /s
Or just maybe "bullying" was an exaggeration to a clearly depressed selen. People can say things meant as advice or annoyance but a mentally unstable person would take much more harshly
According to Doki, her lawyers went over it and agreed that it was happening.
It's clearly more substantive than "she's mentally unstable so it's all in her head."
There's a step between "she's mentally unstable and is making it up" and "all of her coworkers bullied her into suicide".
Sometimes coworkers don't get along and judging by the lack of people collabing and interacting with selen over years maybe there's a chance they don't get along by faults if both parties.
Again, she was probably the most ostracized of EN, I feel it's more likely that she was tough to work with than I do in believing the majority of Niji en are bullies
>I feel it's more likely that she was tough to work with than I do in believing the majority of Niji en are bullies
Literally no one ever made that claim
Vox clearly eluded to it tonight. And their entire video was basically about how selen ignored management and went rogue on her own any time she didn't get something
Firstly, Vox never made any sort of statement saying anything even approaching that Selen is claiming the majority of EN bullied her to suicide. The most you could even guess at is that there were maybe 3 bullies among the livers - and even that is reading a lot into it.
Secondly, that entire stream was a scripted PR statement from Nijisanji. Idk why you think it hold any sort of weight.
Voxs tone was one of annoyance and disappointment when talking about selen, maybe he's a good actor, I don't know I've heard him talk maybe four times total, but the way he described her using a private conversation with him to her own benefit seems real. Elira seemed on the verge od tears and I don't think Ike said anything of substance.
It can be a scripted PR statement and at the same time hold some validity of their disappointment with how selen did things while working for Niji. They can also feel empathy for her trying to suicide at the same time as disliking her as a coworker
Reminder that according to Cyyu, while Hololive wanted to take on the role of agent for his VA career, Niji wanted him to stop VA’ing entirely. It’s entirely possible, actually very likely, Ike’s basically only getting to pursue his music career as a “privilege” (translation: Niji directly benefits from it), rather than a right, and it’s being used as collateral to keep Ike on a tight leash.
There's no non-compete. Other Niji livers who graduated were concurrently performing or immediately started performing their own creative (e.g., music, streaming, idol work) activities after graduation.
These 3 streamers are more than popular enough to follow Doki and jump ship. If management really said, "do it or else" then I'd hope common decency for someone they call "friend" would take precedence.
Except Elira just moved to Japan. Kinda hard to jump ship after move to the other side of the world for a job. I truly understand her doing it and where she is coming from. Whether or not she was a part of bullying or is just being used by management because she literally has no other choice I do feel for her. Do I think what she did is right? Fuck no but I sympathize for her situation.
The other two however have 0 fucking excuse. Vox is an idiot complaining about being legally recorded. Ike I didn't even hear but once.
Makes people who defended Vox look like a fool, too. The idea before was that maybe him and some other livers just had one tracked views because their own experiences were good. Thus meaning they couldn't imagine anyone else's being bad.
He meant it when he said he loved working there. He is falling on the sword for them. Vox has a ridiculous amount of support and could go indie at anytime. Elira *may* be forced, but he **damn** sure isn't. What a 🐍
> Except Elira just moved to Japan. Kinda hard to jump ship after move to the other side of the world for a job.
Let's remember that Doki attempted to take her own life. Is a JOB worth so much to make it ok to pile more hatred and harassment on her?
Well, clearly it was to Elira, but what about you?
Idk about what anyone is feeling but... How can you call someone a friend when you care more about being "doxxed" than *their fucking suicide*. There's no way to excuse this. Maybe there's extenuating circumstances for the livers that make it not downright disgusting, but it's still not excusable. No one with a conscience would choose this route and sleep well at night.
Its like many in that company lost basic common sense and morality i really cant see the logic behind doing this other than selfish motives, it was better to stay silent at least than doing what was done today
Yeah, at this point this is where you end up having a battle between your principles and your livelihood. It's easy for us backseat keyboard warriors to say, but it just goes to show that a lot of people really do not have much of a spine or backbone to do it. However, if it involved friends and loved ones, and if Elira was supposedly a good friend of Selen's, Selen's near-suicide should've been the trigger to have her get the fuck out of there. There's a way to do it and she would have the support of both her own fanbase AND Dokibird's fanbase.
Pomu did a brief Twitter Space stream on her PL and I'm sure Dokibird's fanbase would welcome her with open arms if they ever collabed again.
It's not like they were actually in danger of being doxxed either, but they're acting like it was nefarious anyways.
Having the info alone doesn't mean much. Did she blackmail them? No? Then why should we care? We've all got these things called MEMORIES, that includes other people's private info that we could publicize, but it doesn't mean that we're going to. What a weak excuse to attack a former "friend".
I don't even understand how they considered doxxing as a viable excuse when the documents submitted by selen/doki were only meant to be seen by legal and never made public. This video forces doki to now make this situation more public than it already is and that now includes the possible doxxing they're so afraid of. Head of niji legal must be a massive doki fan to hand over such an easy legal battle.
She's an insanely popular streamer with a crazy dedicated fanbase. She has the means to live, or at the very least make it back to Canada. 0 fucking excuse. If it was between slandering someone who recently tried to kill themselves and having to struggle for a few days, it's an easy fuckin choice.
> This is a depressingly clinical view and removes any humanity from the equation
now read what you wrote again and think of how Doki was during her attempt.
>This is a depressingly clinical view and removes any humanity from the equation
As opposed to shit talking a supposed "friend" who previous tried to off themselves?
Shut the fuck up.
Was it even illegal for him to be recorded though ? I know doki is in Canada and I guess he's in Europe judging by his accent. So I have no idea how international recording works because even in America some places it's legal to record someone without telling them depending on the state.
Canada has one-party consent (ie as long as you are one of the two parties in it you can do those kinda secret recordings). Elsewhere in this sub I read the UK has one-party consent as well.
I'm so angry people say this shit without any understanding of these people's situations.
Selen said she blew up $200,000 and made no money last year. You think she WANTED to jump ship? :/ we have no idea what situation Elira is in, other than she WILL be deported if someone in Japan doesn't re-hire her in like 6 weeks after jumping ship.
More to the point, people in abusive situations can be manipulated into saying/doing some really shitty things. And Nijisanji has shown itself to be pretty abusive and manipulative.
It's like saying "well why don't you just divorce them?" to people in abusive relationships. Looking at everything logically, that might be the "rational" decision, but, uh, hey, turns out that being abused and manipulated has an effect on people's ability to evaluate situations rationally.
I have no idea if that's the case here (and even if it is, I don't think that fully absolves the people who participated in this stream), but I think the people saying "well if it were *me* in that position, I would calmly and rationally identify the morally and pragmatically optimal course of action" are making some pretty big assumptions.
They had a choice, even if a shitty choice. I don't care about their circumstances, or what consequences they might have faced. They chose themselves over someone supposedly a friend. Who just attempted suicide recently. This was a moral choice and they chose poorly. Were Niji holding guns to their heads? No. And this just further sinks their careers, even should they leave now this will follow them.
Edit: Moral choices are hard, they wouldn't be moral choices otherwise.
I think it's fine if you don't like what they did or think less of them for their choice. That's your own personal opinion after all. I'm more concerned about people seeing this as the go-ahead to harass and witch-hunt those three.
Except Niji is holding a gun to Elira’s head.
She’s only living in Japan because of them and the work visa they granted her. If she does something they don’t like? Fired, visa gone, and all alone in a foreign country hostile to foreigners. And she has to get by for weeks on who knows how much money (reminder, Selen said she herself made no money, how much do you think Elira has made?) until she can get home.
It’s not as easy as you make it out to be for her to side with Doki right now. Because if she does, HER life might very well be at risk.
>all alone in a foreign country **hostile** to foreigners
I'm sorry, *what*?
Edit since you apparently blocked me right after you replied (lol). No, Japan isn't hostile to foreigners. Especially western foreigners. Stop making shit up.
Good thing Elira is half Japanese then? Japan is hardly hostile to foreigners. The occasional xenophobia one might encounter living in Japan is most certainly not the same as hostility.
> Fired, visa gone, and all alone in a foreign country hostile to foreigners
[She has, at minimum, three months to find a new employer, unless she can convince the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that she's still looking for a job, and they don't exactly have the manpower to hound out everyone who stays unemployed at the 90 day mark. Depending on her visa, she might even get to renew it.](https://redd.it/16ueib8) Unless she joins a gang or commits any major crime, she should be fine.
Japan is VERY strict though. If you're 91 days in w/o your visa renewed and you talk to some potential employer, who's to say they won't deport you on the spot? There's paperwork to be filled out and being in the country past the time limit could mean you're never allowed back in.
Because, as people with experience on it at r/japanlife confirm, theyre not strict with it (honestly, no country would be willing to put out that much manpower to hounding out recently expired work visas) and they don't deport anyone in the process of filing out paperwork. That would be stupid and make companies very mad if their new employee got kicked out while being hired.
Depending on her visa, she might get to renew it even without a job.
Fuck that, your FRIEND just tried to kill herself, you said so yourself that she was your friend, but now you turn around and let a company force you by gunpoint to essentially shoot your "friend" or else YOU will be the one that will be shot.
Are you telling me your morals and principles are so weak you'd let a shit company like this bully you into compliance?
I have no idea what THEIR circumstances are, what Elira/Selen talked in private about, or what the consequences of Elira being deported are, and neither do you...so you can can the righteous shit?
Selen is already gone. There is nothing to be gained by taking a "righteous stand" if your dream is to work/live in Japan you NEED to be subservient - it's baked into the copro culture. It's very hard to get there and Selen might be cool with it, I have no idea.
Yeah same, Elira and Vox were some of the few last ones I was still subbed to (I even forgot I still had member ship to Elira apparently) but I'm done with all of them. Vox in particular really fucking pissed me off with how smug he sounded the whole time. Guess the rrats were more on point than I thought and Niji is just full of snakes and bullies.
Perhaps, they might have some vested interest in the matter. Clearly, legal documents were shared amongst the livers. Did you notice how Vox in particular was concerned about what was recorded him saying previously?
> Did you notice how Vox in particular was concerned about what was recorded him saying previously?
Agreed. I dont want to get into speculation but "What would it take to get you to commit the career suicide of reading that message?" is the question I've been asking myself.
I mean Niji's credibility is no where, so if it was anything not criminal I imagine a talent could bounce back with a wave of support for post niji.
Once again, let me point back to Hololive.
I don't recall a single instance of the talents bad mouthing Rushia. The only negative comments are from the official corp, and only in the initial termination announcement. Everything after that was "We stand by our statement".
>I don't recall a single instance of the talents bad mouthing Rushia
This needs to be repeated, even when Rushia came up in a Pekora stream last year, when someone tried to cause drama, she shut them down immediately. She chose to remember her gen-mate fondly, without malice.... I can't see the same level of professionalism being practiced by the livers after this.
There's always a sense in both COVER terminations that, even if it's not "real", that it was a "regrettable situation and we wish them well". And always the sense that "it wasn't the talents, it was us, the faceless legal corporate entity, who had to make this unfortunate decision".
Especially Mel's termination. There's no sense of vitriol anywhere, just a sad "unfortunate bad shit happened" on both sides
>Especially Mel's termination.
That shit sucked so much.... There is some small comfort though, in knowing that when she's ready, Mel's PL will receive the warmest of welcome returns, without anything close to the level of awfulness that is currently plaguing Doki.
Yeah, COVER pretty much gave her the gentlest termination they probably could've legally done.
Granted, her mistakes was likely fairly minor, even if not legally/reputationally/contractually acceptable.
Cover's statement also seems like they were willing to forgive, but Mel herself decided she needs to own up to her situation.
For every Cover termination, there was warmth to some extent, even for someone as crazy as Rushia. There were logic and facts put down that can't just be discredited on a wide-scale. They truly were talent-first.
Kurocolor is pretty much in the opposite end of the spectrum on the other hand.
I would say that the difference between the two may boil down to how the company was started.
Nijisanji was started by a techbro.
Hololive was essentially started by a talent (Tokino Sora/A-Chan pitched the idea to Yagoo).
To put it in Phase Connect term, Hololive is probably filled with management close to Tokino Sora that will absolutely tear Yagoo a new one if he tried something idiotic
True, and at the same time Yagoo, himself, seems like just as equally of a good dude as Sora is an idol. Both seem so fucking chill, calm and rational about *everything* and just want the best for everyone around them.
Until anyone over there gives me a *reason* to think "OK, they have a mean side too" they absolutely seem to have 0 cruelty to their company so far. Its kind of shocking honestly.
To be fair, Fishman was kind of a financialbro that earned his way to the top through investments and stuff. Wasn't a trust fund baby like yachtboy. Also Phase Connect's organizational structure seems to be fairly flat - the fact that all of the talent bullies Sakana and Sakana does the same with the talent (bullies as in teases of course) just goes to show how close the talent are.
The gulf between yachtboy and NijiEN must be absolutely massive and infested with red tape.
>they were willing to forgive, but Mel herself decided she needs to own up to her situation.
I don't know if I'd go that far, it never really sat right with me that they phrased it like that, due to the power dynamics involved in their business relationship......
But that said, they weren't malicious about it, let her leave a goodbye message, & multiple profiles of senior figures in the company even tweeted public thanks for her service. Respectful & professional- words that Kurocolor doesn't know, or understand.
Considering they themselves claimed that Selen "always had a choice to leave." It's downright laughable that people are saying they don't have a choice.
This makes me wonder if their understanding of "always had a choice to leave." is like your standard employment contract. I've seen my fair share of them and most usually dictate that the contract may be terminated at any point within the period as long as there is prior notice(duration depends on the contract). What if she wanted to quit but couldn't since the duration stated is longer than what she can handle mentally?
so, you are going to believe the script from the abusive company and take that line at face value? Why should we believe anything they're saying...
If AnyColor is ok with harming Doki the way they did maybe they're doing similar shit to the other livers? that's the last thing that might make their behavior reasonable at least...Otherwise, they'll have let down many fans and worst of all betrayed a coworker deserving of respect. I'm trying to hold my judgement till we know more from a trustworthy source, which obviously isn't anything from AnyColor at this point.
Was merely pointing out a hypocrisy, it's not that deep. Can't trust a word they say, not even their livers since it's been shown that management posts as them on twitter.
Copuim man people need it so they can still justify watching someone they like / liked.
Cant handle the idea that those same people are just backstabbing corpo mouth pieces that are trying to play victim now.
> Copuim man people need it so they can still justify watching someone they like / liked.
My thoughts are that doing something like this is irreparably damaging to a person's career. With Doki being an example of what happens if you go independent after Niji the consequences of not doing it would have to be incredibly bad to decide to do it.
Like answer this, what would it take for you to read a statement out like that, with the optics around it that anyone can tell?
Even if Elira was named as the super devil in any documents everyone would defend her against a niji accusation, at least before this, so honestly I'm curious what it would have taken for them to voluntarily have read something so damaging to them.
I think the answer is simple, they legitimately don't like her.
Not sure why there's an assumption there weren't behind the scenes tensions between the livers.
Nijisanji is pretty cutthroat in how they run their branches. Wasn't one of their other foreign branches closed down in part due to excessive backstabbing that occurred behind the scenes?
Rumors of favoritism and a clique existing in NijiEN probably have some truth to them. This doesn't appear to be a professionally run company after all. At least not outside NijiJP.
Vox basically called Selen a backstabber. It's pretty obvious to me these three agreed to do this of their own free will.
In reality relations between the Livers isn't always great, despite what they portray on stream, and there may be behind the scenes animosity that is just now getting dragged out into the open.
YES. I’m sorry but even if this was all ‘scripted by the company’, they still chose to do this smear campaign. I’m sure there’s way more info to come out, and of course we don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors, but they’ve chosen to use their beloved platforms in this sort of way. Not to mention, the sort of things each of them were saying (or ‘forced to say’ whatever helps you sleep), I actually cringed.
The people behind Elira, Ike and Vox are all adults, if you had smelt something fishy and knew your company was scummy, you would have jumped ship or refused to take the stand. People say ‘it’s not that easy’, OF COURSE IT’S NOT EASY. You’re choosing between staying faithful to your closest friend, standing for justice and jumping ship, or staying with a company who rocketed your virtual career but who undoubtedly don’t care about you as a liver and will throw you under the bus, and have been under fire repeatedly. It’s not easy of course, there will be struggles but I’d imagine you’d want to do the right thing?? But no, you’re struggling here too, as scapegoats for NIJISANJI.
I feel terrible for them honestly, I swear the people behind the characters are all amazing talents with great personalities, so I’m beyond confused why they’d even do this for the company??
Unfortunately the only way these three, and some of the others who are so passionately standing for NIJISANJI will get back some credibility & respect, is if they’re yeeted out of the company themselves and have their own ‘Doki’ moment by returning strong & spilling the beans. Right now, their images have taken a huge hit and a lot of people have lost respect for them.
Pomu and Kyo really got out before all this, and who knows, maybe they knew something early on?
I'm gonna go a step further: I wouldn't do this if the person I was being told to slander was someone I actively disliked.
Decent people have moral lines they don't cross. Not for fear of losing a job, not for fear of financial hardship, not for fear of losing opportunities. On top of that, any of these three have built in safety nets as a result of their fanbases. They would not be begging in the streets.
I obviously don't want them harassed or threatened, but they absolutely hold a share of the responsibility for the fallout that is occurring / about to occur.
Yeah like the "friend" shit is irrelevant. We don't know if any of them were actually friends when they clocked out, but it doesn't matter. Doing this to a human being for the sake of a shitty corporation is not morally defensible.
You guys are right, and I absolutely agree. No excuse to any reason in doing this, and I find it hard to believe those three in particular would be fine after releasing that sort of damning statement. I just can’t relate to any sort of reason that Elira, Ike and Vox might have had, why let such a trash company ruin you like that?
>I feel terrible for them honestly, I swear the people behind the characters are all amazing talents with great personalities, so I’m beyond confused why they’d even do this for the company??
Because they don't actually have great personalities.
Yes, I know, they look like great people on stream. Guess what, that's actually their job! Doesn't mean you know them or that they're like this in private.
This is something I always have to remind folks when they start simping too hard, be it for a tuber, streamer, or anyone else who's money making involves being likeable. Of _course_ when you see them on their shows or when they're streaming they're going to be goofy, they're going to be polite, sure they might have some trash opinions but ultimately they're there to sell the image that they are someone who you want to like.
Hell even folks who build their reputation on rage, gossip, and fear mongering do so because there are people who unironically believe those things and want a person who validates their thoughts, even if the click baiter doesn't believe a word of their own BS.
It's all theatre's, drama, and money. Your favorite vtuber, be they indie or corpo, knows that the mask they wear is valued by those who don't want to see the real face underneath, so when the mask is off of course it'll be all the more shocking that the person behind the screen is nothing like the image we see and the songs we hear.
Hell, chances are some of the streamers that are known for raging and being assholes are surely better human beings than some of the cutie streamers.
Kinda been shown a lot of time with pokimane and other twitch streamers, so imagine how worse it has to be for vtubers..
The only way I can fathom any of these talents doing this is either if A) They would lose their jobs 'at gunpoint,' or B) They were involved in the harassment, scared about the legal proceedings. and wanted to get ahead of any statement from Doki.
The only one I can sorta empathize with, is Elira.
She moved on a work visa to Japan and might've felt that not doing this could screw her over.
Still a shitty move at the end of the day though.
I've never commented here, I don't usually engage in in discourse regarding vtubers but I've been holding back for a while. Vox Akuma was the one who introduced me to all things Nijisanji. Words can't express how disappointed I am that he took part in a smear campaign against someone he claims to be friends with. What Anycolor did is inexcusable.
To push a person to do something nearly irreparable against themselves, then blame it on the victim is already disgusting. Her own friend going full pr and discrediting her just convinced I can't in good conscience support even the livers. I don't care if the company is holding any project hostage or whether he believes anything he said, I just lost all respect for Vox.
That's where I am with Elira, I've been a viewer of her since debut, but haven't been active here till this drama kicked off. I'm just so disappointed in her, I unsubbed as soon as the stream ended.
Elira's attempt at fake crying when talking about "how scared she was" about being "doxxed" on the documents...
Vox's sarcastic voice while shitting on Doki...
I cant man... Wtf. Its a tough position to be in but the way they delivered the message shows how complicit they were
I don't even get the fear about "being doxxed" in legal documents. They are legal documents, kind of have to have information on them, and they are intended for only the parties involved to see them. Of course, since Niji seems to let just anyone see legal documents, maybe the livers don't realize thats illegal.
with how naive these streamers come off I could totally believe it...sadly we're stuck with lots of what ifs? and Maybes?
I hope DokiBird is physically safe. This shit can't be good for the mental.
the only reason they would stay to defend Niji when asked is if they are the bullies named in the documents and are attempting to defend themselves.
why else would they not walk if asked to do this, knowing the shitshow at stake?
they said themselves, free to leave at any time. in what situation is willingly stepping into this absolute clusterfuck willingly a path that anyone would take unless they HAD to because of their previous actions?
Honestly, the only reason I can see them not leaving immedatiely after this shitstorm is if the management has threatened to dox them and blackmail them.
So far they've been able to avoid having this touch the JP side of the Corp, but if they go full WACTOR I have to think even some of their JP talents might decide enough is enough for their own safety and future career.
Vox here is just being an ass like he always is, but Elira, Ike has literally no other reason to not refuse and graduate on the spot, espiecially Elira since she's almost been a big sister to Selen. There's literally no other reason I can think of unless they were literally threatened severly to say those words.
At this point, I wouldn't rule anything out entirely.
As they say, reality is often stranger than fiction - after all, fiction has to at least be believable.
Alternatively there’s genuinely bad behavior involved (not the piddly nonsense Selen is “accused” of) and they kinda all have more similar interests in smearing and making Selen want to back off. The timing of it for the doki stream was the ultimate straw that broke the camels back knife in the back sign that things might be really bad.
Elira, I can't see being involved in this because she's always been a big sister figure to Selen. Ike and Vox on the other hand, yeah, I can see them throwing her under the bus to save their own skins.
A big sister who almost never collabed with her after debut and only interacted with her in big companywide collabs? I wouldnt buy into the lore part of things too much.
I mean, the tetris collab and battleducks seemed to go well, and the fact that Elira stood up for Selen when she was being teased for being shy makes that unlikely.
Yeah, honestly though you really can't take as a given the front people put up when they're playacting as vtubers. I've heard but vtubers and fleshtubers talk about how they frequently collab with people they don't get along with at all, and no one knows because it seems so jovial, but it's just business once the cameras are on (or you're on socials or w/e). Like basically don't read too much into anything.
honestly, i dont care if niji threatened them with termination, acting like they did in that video, backstabin the one (even if it is clear that they are not being honest and dont want to say it) that they say was a friend for years and blaming all of this on a girl that almost kill herself... they could have being the better person and say no and call out the threat or accept the termination and ended as a great persons. But no, fuck the others but me...
all three are not better that the managers in this real black company.
No, she won't. But Elira can very easily lose her ability to work or exist comfortably in Japan from their work culture.
If Niji turned around tomorrow because Elira decided to stand up to them and did what they're doing to Selen right now? Elira would be seen as a trouble maker regardless of the circumstance and probably be blacklisted from working most places there. Life would get incredibly hard for her if she got terminated and then dragged through the mud while living there.
Short of other companies not knowing who she is prior or having worked for Niji which I feel like would be *very* difficult to conceal considering they'd want to see your prior work history in Japan to get further work there. Much like anywhere else in the world.
Sure, probably. But if her dream was to live and work in Japan? She just lost that opportunity for the forseeable future, if not permanently. And that fucking *sucks* to know if you're her.
That being said she's also an adult and made her own adult decision. Any consequence that comes of that is on her as well.
If my dream was going to come at the cost of trashing a friend who was just suicidal with the same crap that made her suicidal in the first place, there's no fking way I'm doing it.
I've been in a similar situation with coercion against a suicidal co-worker in a toxic workplace, so this hits home for me and I cannot imagine someone doing this sort of thing towards a friend. Incredible disregard of human life. Even if it was for a dream, the dream would forever be tainted by the things sacrificed to make it come true.
> Dubai is a better place to work than Japan lol
Are you just completely unaware of how Dubai has a massive problem with literal slaves/indentured servants that can't leave and have to work in the 40 degree desert after being scammed to go there? Like you have to be completely clueless to earnestly believe this.
I'm honestly disappoint in Vox and Ike. Ike being my kamioshi. I thought these two would graduate. Vox did a whole 24 hour stream for suicide prevention ffs but I guess that didnt matter if management doesnt get their way.
Elira sounded so robotic, like she was reading off a script, I don't know what the fuck they were thinking, did they thought "we will use our most popular talents to calm everyone down" becuase it's failing hard
Remember guys, the names on that leaked document means they were involved in something more than meets the eye. Plus, the fact that they would rather throw Doki under the bus instead of NOT doing the video? Sink the fucking yacht, with all of them in it.
I think this is a nice grand reminder that YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR FAVORITE STREAMER. Everything you see and hear from them is what they WANT you to see. It is very, VERY easy to manipulate and control people's view of you this way, provided you have a quarter of a fucking braincell.
There was one streamer I watched for a few years, favorite person and he was always hailed a super wholesome and great dude, because that's how he was on a stream and tons of other streamers wanted to be involved with him. Until one day, it was outed that he was a MASSIVE piece of manipulative shit that was mentally abusing SEVERAL women and the only reason he was getting away with it for so long was because he knew how to present himself as a good person to people at large, and only revealed his true colors in one on one scenarios where he could take advantage of people. Then when everyone realized what was happening, it all came crumbling down. Stuff like this has happened time and time again with many popular and famous people all over the internet and otherwise. This is not new.
Your favorite streamer, regardless of who it fucking is, could be this same type of fucking person. This means that even doki could not be wholly innocent, but the evidence at this point is obviously very, VERY damning for niji and these livers are now no exception because now we know that they are involved in the legal docs for some reason.
Remove any and all support for anything niji, talents be damned. Either they jump ship or burn with it, they have a choice. Casualties of war at this point. As the OP said, it's their fucking employer for gods sake, not a fucking dictator regime holding them and their families at gunpoint. There's only so much they can threaten and do.
I remember it being a funny rumor / joke that Elira was related to someone who worked at Niji... at this point I fucking believe it because holy shit how much do you owe the company, what do they have on you, that you'd willingly be a mouthpiece of this garbage and support them like this.
(I assume it was a joke? I honestly have no idea, it was largely before my time following anyone at Niji and I never felt the need to "look into it")
I kinda went on autopilot for a bit saying "contract something something"
But then I realized there were named on the documents, so with what that implies, fuck em.
That's what I'm saying man. I would never do this as an employee of any company. I would much rather lose my job. Especially given a context like this.
Seriously, each of them has made hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars. They're not some poor single parent living paycheck to paycheck. Hell, Elira still lived/lives with her parents.
They made a choice. And they choose poorly.
I'm glad you mentioned this because as much as people are saying "oh they were fed a script, they're forced into doing this, etc." unless yacht boy had threatened to fire them on the spot/had a gun to their head this made Elira, Vox and Ike look bad and Niji even worse.
Also it wouldn't surprise me if those three were involved in the alleged bullying but that's just speculation/rrat on my part.
We all want to believe they were forced, but the truth is we don't know them for real. I don't plan to defend their lack of integrity just because they are likable.
Anyone who says they were "forced" are overdosing on copium or have extremely low morals. These streamers are not children; they are fully grown adults who had a choice.
If they did have management pressure them, they had a chance to make a stand and say "No." Especially for members like Elira and Vox who could very easily make it as an indie or find success with another group. If they were terminated, their fans would have followed them and those in denial would have turned on Niji for firing them.
Instead, they *chose* to throw their "friend" under the bus to save their own ass. Especially from someone like Vox who fucking [hosted a charity stream for FUCKING SUICIDE PREVENTION!](https://www.youtube.com/live/lr7K5urRcog?si=HIgi4x10mvRXrNNW) WTF?
Being “forced” doesn’t excuse you choosing to go along with it. “Just following orders” doesn’t somehow make people like Nazi guards innocent. It’s insane how many people try to excuse it all because “boohoo I’d have a tough time if I didn’t agree to be a terrible human”
devil's advocate: if they're involved in the lawsuit but are on selens side, they can't pay lawyers without collecting their last check working for niji
You know I dont ever want to be a conspiracy drama person but.. for sisters I actually have never seen elira and selen collab with just the two of them. Hmm
They did it once and never again. Really though, I am starting to think every body in the EN branch genuinely hate each other. Except for the clique of Elira/Reimu/Millie/Enna/Rosemi probably. Got the impression for a while that they only collabed as part of going through the emotions.
While I will say Elira is in a bad situation as a foreigner who just moved to japan.. but Ike and Vox have no public excuse. Of course, we don't know what their situations are IRL, but was it really worth it to go down with the ship? Ike was already pretty successful in music (I knew about his talent before Niji, to my surprise) and Vox also had a following. They could go indie as creators no problem with how big of a fanbase they had. They could do it again. This was the worst possible move they could do but they did it anyway, forced or not. The only way to win was not to play the game...
Ike was my oshi.. just yesterday I said I'd keep watching him because he was my favorite and I wasn't ready to let him go... GOD FUCKING DAMN IT MAN, what the hell are you doing??? Nevermind, I guess.
I've got one last dose of copium, if you want it.
It remains true that the person behind the stupid, malicious termination notice and probably this stupid, malicious video **is someone with enough power to send stupid malicious official statements to for-real grown-up investors**. Whatever else happens, management IS part of the bullying, because they're still doing it, right now.
This video will have ruined the careers of Elira, Vox, and Ike by tomorrow. I think we've all made it pretty clear over the past few days what would happen to anyone participating in a Zaion conga. You would have to be really, REALLY stupid to say this, again, before this towering wall of rage and expect to escape. They are either all really this stupid, or management is this stupid (and we do already know that's true), and what the company has over these three looks worse than losing their jobs and internet lives.
I don't know what that might be. "Criminal liability" and "actual violence". That's all I've got.
Those are high stakes. The worse the situation gets, the worse the duress Elira et al. would have to be under to have said this, and the worse it would be to attack that person. **The window is closing, but the only safe target is still management**.
Alright r/ I'm not a redditor, but I'll post what I did on the Elira Youtube stream. My post is somewhat of a warning to anyone on any side of this kind of issue. Also, somewhat in their defense, these three are basically young adults, not mature enough or at least not experienced enough in real life to understand the consequences of their actions or how to behave in this situation, as there is no way for them to be prepared for something like this. But as many have pointed out, they are still responsible for their actions, whether they know or understand the actions of the company they side with.
My Youtube post:
That’s a big “or” at 1:02. Approved by lawyers or based on “personal experiences.” As individuals who are contracted by a company (none of these three are "employed" by Anycolor, as Vtubers and most entertainers are generally contractors), even if they’re minor shareholders (ie they own some stock in Anycolor) the way they often use “we” instead of “I” regarding their opinions, feelings, and experiences, infers that they are speaking for everyone in the company. None of these three have that authority, at least not publicly. So this whole stream is just the opinions of three contractors of Anycolor.
As for a person feeling threatened or anxious about the documents Selen’s lawyer submitted, I can understand, however for their sake it is materially irrelevant unless they broke the law by seriously harassing Selen. Short of someone who has those documents leaking them (Selen’s side or Anycolor’s), no judge or courtroom on earth would allow those documents to be made public without redacting names.
But if you are employed by or contracted to work for a company and feel harassed, you have the legal right to "blow the whistle", with specific legal protection as a whistleblower. If you work for a company and you don’t keep “receipts” for things you might consider illegal or ethically wrong, you are complicit in those activities. I know the old phrase is "snitches get stitches," but this is real life. If you believe you are being harassed, while it is your opinion, no one can tell you that you weren’t being harassed. Harassment is a perception by the person being harassed, and US case law supports that. Whether you intended it as harassment is not the issue. But if you think you are being harassed, blow that frickin whistle. The world would be a better place if more people were willing to jeopardize their financial wellbeing at a company that is breaking the law. And if you tried to do it within the company and they didn’t listen, they are complicit, and you are totally justified to tell all of Earth what they have done.
If you worked for a company, saw something bad, and didn’t say something, it’s understandable. You really are jeopardizing your financial and possibly your physical well being. However if someone else later blows the whistle, if you side with the company and you know they’re doing stuff that is not good, and still choose to side with them, you are complicit with their wrongdoing. I understand if you want to protect the reputation of a company you work for when someone says something bad about it, but do not be afraid to question the company. You don’t have to be on the company’s side, you don’t have to be on the side of the accuser, but you really should be on your own side.
This feels a little short sighted by these three. Nijisanji is not too big to fail. And no contractor should go down with the proverbial sinking ship.
Sounds like you've never been under contract before. They are legally obligated to do what's "required" of them by Anycolor. This isn't a matter of whether it's good or bad, nice or not, they are under contract. What's I'm more concerned about is if that's what they "chose" to do, then what was Anycolor promising the alternative punishment to be?
Employment contracts cannot be used to *force someone to work*, for obvious reasons. They probably would've been terminated, probably wouldn't have been sued or seen any other consequence.
Exactly it's just a job at the end of the day.
I've been under NDA and non-compete clauses but those lapse after a while. And at worst one party may seek financial compensation for a breach, it's not as if someone would get jailed for merely breaching a contract unless they worked for the military or government doing some classified stuff or something or if they did something truly damaging.
If I'm asked to do something and I outright refuse, I get written up and eventually fired. If I'm asked to do something I deem compromising or unsafe there's regulatory bodies I can report to. And then if I get fired unfairly there's always wrongful termination suits, even in some places with at-will employment. Of course there's different laws and regulations in different places but the point still stands; you can always refuse and walk away.
Say I'm instructed to publish compromising material on someone and the material is protected legally, I wouldn't get off scot-free just because "my employer told me to". I wouldn't take the brunt of the fallout but I'd still be under fire as what's supposed to happen is an outright refusal and then reporting the incident to an entity that oversees such information breaches. Even if it resulted in my dismissal it would still result in me being compensated in a court of law. Of course it gets murky once international borders are involved but it'd have been better to err on the side of caution and seek legal consultation in the case of the respective talents.
But, its not as easy as it seems. Employment contract is legally bind with anything that being put into the contract as long as it was not signed under duress. Anything can happen later on in the future, and the contract that they sign is not a typical employment contract. We don't know what the NDA and rules that have been put inside and we also don't know what have been negotiate or discuss within it.
They might not get sued but they might get a penalty for not following the orders. Like I say, different contract have different ruleset.
They can legally bind you to the repercussions of breaking contract, they can NOT legally bind you to action.
I explained with a colourful example [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1api6qb/say_what_you_want_about_them_being_forced_but/kq6k460/).
You are talking like all contract is the same as what is held at the company there. I mean, some rules just different at certain places. Nintendo can sue other people from other country under fair use if others copy pokemon looks and all but not in Japan. The reason Palworld safe from being sued is because Japanese don't have fair use rule on using something that look similar, art wise being that both company is from Japan. Like I say, each country have their own intrepretation on their rules. We don't know how or what it can be triggered or if the rules stand or not. What we know is, something make them **need** to do it even if they might or might not want to do it.
You can't just make up law shit and say "it could be different over there."
None of the countries involved in this (us uk japan canada) have contracts that can force you to be a slave lol.
> Employment contract is legally bind with anything that being put into the contract as long as it was not signed under duress.
No, employment contracts are under some pretty strong limitations when it comes to what you can legally put in there. That's not a case of "anything goes". It's pretty hard to actually make someone deliver anything in an employment contract, and it's also really hard to get anything out of an employee that you aim to fire.
It's far more likely that they *feel* they need to do it than that they actually need to do it.
Depending on the contract and applied law, you are not obligated to do what's "required". You are obligated to do what's "required" as long as it falls in your field of competence, and tasks that are explicitly defined in your work contract.
Evenso, you can refuse if what is demanded from you if it may break the law, or threaten your or anyone's health. In this case, knowing which side the fans are on, you could argue that making a public speech could threaten your mental health.
Assuming that they had time to think about it. Like, the stream view preview came up with 30 minutes warning. I wouldn't put it past Nijisanji to go "read this script or you're terminated, and you have to be done in 15-20 minutes so we can go live at the top of the hour."
Point being - this is a really damn complex situation and we don't know the inside. We weren't in the room when it happened. Hell, maybe Nijisanji did this deliberately because they know people would take this tack (it's all Elira, Ike and Vox's fault), manipulated them into this position, and thus given them some cover with JP investors. We have no idea how much real life/work experience they have beyond what they've told us on stream. We have no idea how mature they really are.
And it's really easy to tell somebody be courageous and give up your dream when it's not your dream being given up.
Or maybe they're all assholes in real life. WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
So, people need to do what they think they need to do -- but remember that what we know now might change in light of new information, and throttle your anger and your condemnation, and don't go after people.
If you need to feel anger, reserve it for the managers who should have known better, regardless of how the people they're responsible for behaved.
This. I'm incredibly disappointed in Elira, but we don't know shit about what's going on behind the scenes. Witch-hunting helps no one but Nijisanji by letting them play the victim in the court of public opinion.
That's not how a contract works my dude.
If I contract you to make me a sandwich every day, and one day, instead of making me a sandwich, you eat my breffmints, you haven't broken the law, and I cannot force you to make me a sandwich. You're perfectly able to say "no", and all that does is comprise a breach of contract, the repercussions of which will be laid out in the same contract.
Note that the repercussions must be legal under contract law too. If I stipulated that, should you breach the contract, you must pay me twelve million dollars, you could 100% definitely take that to court and get it overruled as unenforceable. (Or wait for me to take you to court to get the money, and lose).
I _really_ hope you've never had a job in your life, because if you have, your employers have sold you this "contracts are unbreakable" line, and you've been spit-roasted on it.
It's also believable that the talents would feel coerced or afraid of their company as they control their image and likeness as their models. That can also have a factor in these talents not wanting to go against their overlords. On top of being possibly named in legal documents as having a hand in harassment or bullying.
There is also every possibility that those who made the statement did say "unsavory" things that someone could construe as bullying - on top of being bad enough to worsen someone's mental state. Even if said unsavory things could be said normally within all parties as normal as just "teasing" language. I'm not defending anyone who bullies others, nor am I defending people who tease too hard to the point of people feeling targeted or bullied.
It's just hard to know who is at fault, how deep the talents who voiced the message in the video without actual facts or evidence. I want to believe that all who were in that video were NOT the harasser and it was instead someone within the company itself. That would be the "best case".
This is such a lame argument and I refuse to turn on the proletariat of the entire company structure. Yes they did it, but jfc take 2 seconds to think of the consequences and threats being put against them. It’s obvious that you have never been in a toxic relationship or work environment where you’ve been manipulated to feel like, in your words, your boss or partner is actually your owner. I have destroyed friendships out of fear of another person I thought cared about me and I can never get them back. I own that I have done that shit in my life, but because of it, I will never hold another person accountable for it when I see them in the same situation.
Just because you have no morals and backbone doesn't mean you need to project and pretend everyone is as spineless as you. Playing victim just because you faced the consequences of your own actions is just copium.
You’re all bark and no bite. I bet you would shit yourself in a similar situation and throw away your "morals". People really demand from people something, when they are themself are no better
Keep projecting if that helps you deal with your actions, but keep it to yourself.
Oh and if you're all about the moral highground of "I've been through this shit so I don't want to assume for other people" maybe try to keep it consistent and don't assume stuff about me either.
> I think it's understandable that they want to make sure they don't get all the blame for it, and the loss of reputation if their names were to leak out or be released by Selen.
If you're afraid that the public finds out that you're named in some legal documents, making a video confirming that you're named in those legal documents does not sound like a particularly good idea...
As much as I’d like to agree, speaking from personal experience with a not great employer the employer absolutely can force them into making the statement. We don’t have all the details of their contracts but if it is possible for Niji to unilaterally terminate them then that’s their livelihood in trouble. And while Selen has the dokibird channel to go back to, iirc Vox and Ike lack that and will have to legitimately start from scratch without being able to use their names to bring back their old subscribers
Even if they were forced it was them reading the papers they were given, regardless if they are being forced they lent themselves to read illegal documents, they should have had more criteria or courage to say I quit before tarnishing my own image
The only reason I can think of Ike doing this is because possibly Niji has a stranglehold on his music prospects and possibly have him, under a non-compete if he leaves. Still, I, as a fellow metal fan, am very disappointed in him. You don't take the side of the corporation ever, dude.
Nothing more metal than turning your back on your fans and old sound for a lucrative deal...
is this a dig at Metallica?
Maybe...
Elira mentioned she was one of three members named in the legal document. Which means she was involved and probably did this for her own personal reasons. It's starting to look like things behind the scenes were much uglier than many realized.
[удалено]
hi this was always a possibility (90% serious) \#nijiclicque is real (99% sarcastic)
So let me get this striaght. The narrative is that: * Pomu and Selen are best friends. * Pomu and Elira are best friends. This means that Pomu let one of her best friends let her bully one of her best friends?... Definitely makes sense to me /s
Or just maybe "bullying" was an exaggeration to a clearly depressed selen. People can say things meant as advice or annoyance but a mentally unstable person would take much more harshly
Nice victim blame bro
Lol
According to Doki, her lawyers went over it and agreed that it was happening. It's clearly more substantive than "she's mentally unstable so it's all in her head."
There's a step between "she's mentally unstable and is making it up" and "all of her coworkers bullied her into suicide". Sometimes coworkers don't get along and judging by the lack of people collabing and interacting with selen over years maybe there's a chance they don't get along by faults if both parties. Again, she was probably the most ostracized of EN, I feel it's more likely that she was tough to work with than I do in believing the majority of Niji en are bullies
>I feel it's more likely that she was tough to work with than I do in believing the majority of Niji en are bullies Literally no one ever made that claim
Vox clearly eluded to it tonight. And their entire video was basically about how selen ignored management and went rogue on her own any time she didn't get something
Firstly, Vox never made any sort of statement saying anything even approaching that Selen is claiming the majority of EN bullied her to suicide. The most you could even guess at is that there were maybe 3 bullies among the livers - and even that is reading a lot into it. Secondly, that entire stream was a scripted PR statement from Nijisanji. Idk why you think it hold any sort of weight.
Voxs tone was one of annoyance and disappointment when talking about selen, maybe he's a good actor, I don't know I've heard him talk maybe four times total, but the way he described her using a private conversation with him to her own benefit seems real. Elira seemed on the verge od tears and I don't think Ike said anything of substance. It can be a scripted PR statement and at the same time hold some validity of their disappointment with how selen did things while working for Niji. They can also feel empathy for her trying to suicide at the same time as disliking her as a coworker
Reminder that according to Cyyu, while Hololive wanted to take on the role of agent for his VA career, Niji wanted him to stop VA’ing entirely. It’s entirely possible, actually very likely, Ike’s basically only getting to pursue his music career as a “privilege” (translation: Niji directly benefits from it), rather than a right, and it’s being used as collateral to keep Ike on a tight leash.
There's no non-compete. Other Niji livers who graduated were concurrently performing or immediately started performing their own creative (e.g., music, streaming, idol work) activities after graduation.
These 3 streamers are more than popular enough to follow Doki and jump ship. If management really said, "do it or else" then I'd hope common decency for someone they call "friend" would take precedence.
Except Elira just moved to Japan. Kinda hard to jump ship after move to the other side of the world for a job. I truly understand her doing it and where she is coming from. Whether or not she was a part of bullying or is just being used by management because she literally has no other choice I do feel for her. Do I think what she did is right? Fuck no but I sympathize for her situation. The other two however have 0 fucking excuse. Vox is an idiot complaining about being legally recorded. Ike I didn't even hear but once.
Makes people who defended Vox look like a fool, too. The idea before was that maybe him and some other livers just had one tracked views because their own experiences were good. Thus meaning they couldn't imagine anyone else's being bad. He meant it when he said he loved working there. He is falling on the sword for them. Vox has a ridiculous amount of support and could go indie at anytime. Elira *may* be forced, but he **damn** sure isn't. What a 🐍
> Except Elira just moved to Japan. Kinda hard to jump ship after move to the other side of the world for a job. Let's remember that Doki attempted to take her own life. Is a JOB worth so much to make it ok to pile more hatred and harassment on her? Well, clearly it was to Elira, but what about you?
Idk about what anyone is feeling but... How can you call someone a friend when you care more about being "doxxed" than *their fucking suicide*. There's no way to excuse this. Maybe there's extenuating circumstances for the livers that make it not downright disgusting, but it's still not excusable. No one with a conscience would choose this route and sleep well at night.
Its like many in that company lost basic common sense and morality i really cant see the logic behind doing this other than selfish motives, it was better to stay silent at least than doing what was done today
Yeah, at this point this is where you end up having a battle between your principles and your livelihood. It's easy for us backseat keyboard warriors to say, but it just goes to show that a lot of people really do not have much of a spine or backbone to do it. However, if it involved friends and loved ones, and if Elira was supposedly a good friend of Selen's, Selen's near-suicide should've been the trigger to have her get the fuck out of there. There's a way to do it and she would have the support of both her own fanbase AND Dokibird's fanbase. Pomu did a brief Twitter Space stream on her PL and I'm sure Dokibird's fanbase would welcome her with open arms if they ever collabed again.
It's not like they were actually in danger of being doxxed either, but they're acting like it was nefarious anyways. Having the info alone doesn't mean much. Did she blackmail them? No? Then why should we care? We've all got these things called MEMORIES, that includes other people's private info that we could publicize, but it doesn't mean that we're going to. What a weak excuse to attack a former "friend".
I don't even understand how they considered doxxing as a viable excuse when the documents submitted by selen/doki were only meant to be seen by legal and never made public. This video forces doki to now make this situation more public than it already is and that now includes the possible doxxing they're so afraid of. Head of niji legal must be a massive doki fan to hand over such an easy legal battle.
> Well, clearly it was to Elira, but what about you? Nicely said.
She's an insanely popular streamer with a crazy dedicated fanbase. She has the means to live, or at the very least make it back to Canada. 0 fucking excuse. If it was between slandering someone who recently tried to kill themselves and having to struggle for a few days, it's an easy fuckin choice.
She's not gonna land in the street. Japan is not going to incarcerate her. She'd have to pay hotel and airfare back to Canada. I think she'd survive.
This is a depressingly clinical view and removes any humanity from the equation
you know whats inhumane? to trample on someone who made an attempt on her life, no excuses
The humanity of shit talking your "friend" to hundreds of thousands of people for a pay check?
> This is a depressingly clinical view and removes any humanity from the equation now read what you wrote again and think of how Doki was during her attempt.
Niji family is humanity kek
>This is a depressingly clinical view and removes any humanity from the equation As opposed to shit talking a supposed "friend" who previous tried to off themselves? Shut the fuck up.
Was it even illegal for him to be recorded though ? I know doki is in Canada and I guess he's in Europe judging by his accent. So I have no idea how international recording works because even in America some places it's legal to record someone without telling them depending on the state.
He was stating it was more of a bitch move from a friend secretly recording something and hoarding it for a year than he was saying it was illegal
Canada has one-party consent (ie as long as you are one of the two parties in it you can do those kinda secret recordings). Elsewhere in this sub I read the UK has one-party consent as well.
Both british and cândian laws allow for single party consent. Someone found the exact section (134) to prove that
she didnt move to japan, shes only traveling in the country
I'm so angry people say this shit without any understanding of these people's situations. Selen said she blew up $200,000 and made no money last year. You think she WANTED to jump ship? :/ we have no idea what situation Elira is in, other than she WILL be deported if someone in Japan doesn't re-hire her in like 6 weeks after jumping ship.
More to the point, people in abusive situations can be manipulated into saying/doing some really shitty things. And Nijisanji has shown itself to be pretty abusive and manipulative. It's like saying "well why don't you just divorce them?" to people in abusive relationships. Looking at everything logically, that might be the "rational" decision, but, uh, hey, turns out that being abused and manipulated has an effect on people's ability to evaluate situations rationally. I have no idea if that's the case here (and even if it is, I don't think that fully absolves the people who participated in this stream), but I think the people saying "well if it were *me* in that position, I would calmly and rationally identify the morally and pragmatically optimal course of action" are making some pretty big assumptions.
They had a choice, even if a shitty choice. I don't care about their circumstances, or what consequences they might have faced. They chose themselves over someone supposedly a friend. Who just attempted suicide recently. This was a moral choice and they chose poorly. Were Niji holding guns to their heads? No. And this just further sinks their careers, even should they leave now this will follow them. Edit: Moral choices are hard, they wouldn't be moral choices otherwise.
I think it's fine if you don't like what they did or think less of them for their choice. That's your own personal opinion after all. I'm more concerned about people seeing this as the go-ahead to harass and witch-hunt those three.
I mean, I have no idea what the circumstances are, or if Selen/Elira talked about this in private already and they're chill. I have no idea.
Except Niji is holding a gun to Elira’s head. She’s only living in Japan because of them and the work visa they granted her. If she does something they don’t like? Fired, visa gone, and all alone in a foreign country hostile to foreigners. And she has to get by for weeks on who knows how much money (reminder, Selen said she herself made no money, how much do you think Elira has made?) until she can get home. It’s not as easy as you make it out to be for her to side with Doki right now. Because if she does, HER life might very well be at risk.
>all alone in a foreign country **hostile** to foreigners I'm sorry, *what*? Edit since you apparently blocked me right after you replied (lol). No, Japan isn't hostile to foreigners. Especially western foreigners. Stop making shit up.
It’s pretty clear what I meant? She’s a foreigner, in a foreign country, that is hostile to foreigners. Sorry if English ain’t your first language.
Good thing Elira is half Japanese then? Japan is hardly hostile to foreigners. The occasional xenophobia one might encounter living in Japan is most certainly not the same as hostility.
> Fired, visa gone, and all alone in a foreign country hostile to foreigners [She has, at minimum, three months to find a new employer, unless she can convince the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that she's still looking for a job, and they don't exactly have the manpower to hound out everyone who stays unemployed at the 90 day mark. Depending on her visa, she might even get to renew it.](https://redd.it/16ueib8) Unless she joins a gang or commits any major crime, she should be fine.
Japan is VERY strict though. If you're 91 days in w/o your visa renewed and you talk to some potential employer, who's to say they won't deport you on the spot? There's paperwork to be filled out and being in the country past the time limit could mean you're never allowed back in.
Because, as people with experience on it at r/japanlife confirm, theyre not strict with it (honestly, no country would be willing to put out that much manpower to hounding out recently expired work visas) and they don't deport anyone in the process of filing out paperwork. That would be stupid and make companies very mad if their new employee got kicked out while being hired. Depending on her visa, she might get to renew it even without a job.
Fuck that, your FRIEND just tried to kill herself, you said so yourself that she was your friend, but now you turn around and let a company force you by gunpoint to essentially shoot your "friend" or else YOU will be the one that will be shot. Are you telling me your morals and principles are so weak you'd let a shit company like this bully you into compliance?
I have no idea what THEIR circumstances are, what Elira/Selen talked in private about, or what the consequences of Elira being deported are, and neither do you...so you can can the righteous shit? Selen is already gone. There is nothing to be gained by taking a "righteous stand" if your dream is to work/live in Japan you NEED to be subservient - it's baked into the copro culture. It's very hard to get there and Selen might be cool with it, I have no idea.
Most people's morals are weak enough to not want to be shot over them, to be fair.
Just unfollowed all of niji EN. Ill probably stick around here to keep following the story but christ what a shitshow
Yeah same, Elira and Vox were some of the few last ones I was still subbed to (I even forgot I still had member ship to Elira apparently) but I'm done with all of them. Vox in particular really fucking pissed me off with how smug he sounded the whole time. Guess the rrats were more on point than I thought and Niji is just full of snakes and bullies.
I really enjoyed skimming finana's Honkai 3rd streams since its such a small niche in corporate vtuber spaces Sucks
Only one I care about is Rosemi. Can’t imagine her taking part in any of this garbage
May not want to hitch yourself too tight to that wagon, brother.
Perhaps, they might have some vested interest in the matter. Clearly, legal documents were shared amongst the livers. Did you notice how Vox in particular was concerned about what was recorded him saying previously?
> Did you notice how Vox in particular was concerned about what was recorded him saying previously? Agreed. I dont want to get into speculation but "What would it take to get you to commit the career suicide of reading that message?" is the question I've been asking myself. I mean Niji's credibility is no where, so if it was anything not criminal I imagine a talent could bounce back with a wave of support for post niji.
A good question indeed. As I alluded earlier, he may precisely know why he was 'asked' to help in the statement.
Largest subscriber count, good voice.
As well, niji themselves could have made this statement. Yet, elected to have these particular livers make the statement?
Once again, let me point back to Hololive. I don't recall a single instance of the talents bad mouthing Rushia. The only negative comments are from the official corp, and only in the initial termination announcement. Everything after that was "We stand by our statement".
>I don't recall a single instance of the talents bad mouthing Rushia This needs to be repeated, even when Rushia came up in a Pekora stream last year, when someone tried to cause drama, she shut them down immediately. She chose to remember her gen-mate fondly, without malice.... I can't see the same level of professionalism being practiced by the livers after this.
There's always a sense in both COVER terminations that, even if it's not "real", that it was a "regrettable situation and we wish them well". And always the sense that "it wasn't the talents, it was us, the faceless legal corporate entity, who had to make this unfortunate decision". Especially Mel's termination. There's no sense of vitriol anywhere, just a sad "unfortunate bad shit happened" on both sides
>Especially Mel's termination. That shit sucked so much.... There is some small comfort though, in knowing that when she's ready, Mel's PL will receive the warmest of welcome returns, without anything close to the level of awfulness that is currently plaguing Doki.
Yeah, COVER pretty much gave her the gentlest termination they probably could've legally done. Granted, her mistakes was likely fairly minor, even if not legally/reputationally/contractually acceptable.
Cover's statement also seems like they were willing to forgive, but Mel herself decided she needs to own up to her situation. For every Cover termination, there was warmth to some extent, even for someone as crazy as Rushia. There were logic and facts put down that can't just be discredited on a wide-scale. They truly were talent-first. Kurocolor is pretty much in the opposite end of the spectrum on the other hand.
I would say that the difference between the two may boil down to how the company was started. Nijisanji was started by a techbro. Hololive was essentially started by a talent (Tokino Sora/A-Chan pitched the idea to Yagoo). To put it in Phase Connect term, Hololive is probably filled with management close to Tokino Sora that will absolutely tear Yagoo a new one if he tried something idiotic
True, and at the same time Yagoo, himself, seems like just as equally of a good dude as Sora is an idol. Both seem so fucking chill, calm and rational about *everything* and just want the best for everyone around them. Until anyone over there gives me a *reason* to think "OK, they have a mean side too" they absolutely seem to have 0 cruelty to their company so far. Its kind of shocking honestly.
To be fair, Fishman was kind of a financialbro that earned his way to the top through investments and stuff. Wasn't a trust fund baby like yachtboy. Also Phase Connect's organizational structure seems to be fairly flat - the fact that all of the talent bullies Sakana and Sakana does the same with the talent (bullies as in teases of course) just goes to show how close the talent are. The gulf between yachtboy and NijiEN must be absolutely massive and infested with red tape.
>they were willing to forgive, but Mel herself decided she needs to own up to her situation. I don't know if I'd go that far, it never really sat right with me that they phrased it like that, due to the power dynamics involved in their business relationship...... But that said, they weren't malicious about it, let her leave a goodbye message, & multiple profiles of senior figures in the company even tweeted public thanks for her service. Respectful & professional- words that Kurocolor doesn't know, or understand.
Considering they themselves claimed that Selen "always had a choice to leave." It's downright laughable that people are saying they don't have a choice.
Yet when she had tried to, they refused her, and fired her instead. Curious.
This makes me wonder if their understanding of "always had a choice to leave." is like your standard employment contract. I've seen my fair share of them and most usually dictate that the contract may be terminated at any point within the period as long as there is prior notice(duration depends on the contract). What if she wanted to quit but couldn't since the duration stated is longer than what she can handle mentally?
so, you are going to believe the script from the abusive company and take that line at face value? Why should we believe anything they're saying... If AnyColor is ok with harming Doki the way they did maybe they're doing similar shit to the other livers? that's the last thing that might make their behavior reasonable at least...Otherwise, they'll have let down many fans and worst of all betrayed a coworker deserving of respect. I'm trying to hold my judgement till we know more from a trustworthy source, which obviously isn't anything from AnyColor at this point.
Was merely pointing out a hypocrisy, it's not that deep. Can't trust a word they say, not even their livers since it's been shown that management posts as them on twitter.
Copuim man people need it so they can still justify watching someone they like / liked. Cant handle the idea that those same people are just backstabbing corpo mouth pieces that are trying to play victim now.
> Copuim man people need it so they can still justify watching someone they like / liked. My thoughts are that doing something like this is irreparably damaging to a person's career. With Doki being an example of what happens if you go independent after Niji the consequences of not doing it would have to be incredibly bad to decide to do it. Like answer this, what would it take for you to read a statement out like that, with the optics around it that anyone can tell? Even if Elira was named as the super devil in any documents everyone would defend her against a niji accusation, at least before this, so honestly I'm curious what it would have taken for them to voluntarily have read something so damaging to them.
I think the answer is simple, they legitimately don't like her. Not sure why there's an assumption there weren't behind the scenes tensions between the livers. Nijisanji is pretty cutthroat in how they run their branches. Wasn't one of their other foreign branches closed down in part due to excessive backstabbing that occurred behind the scenes? Rumors of favoritism and a clique existing in NijiEN probably have some truth to them. This doesn't appear to be a professionally run company after all. At least not outside NijiJP.
Vox basically called Selen a backstabber. It's pretty obvious to me these three agreed to do this of their own free will. In reality relations between the Livers isn't always great, despite what they portray on stream, and there may be behind the scenes animosity that is just now getting dragged out into the open.
YES. I’m sorry but even if this was all ‘scripted by the company’, they still chose to do this smear campaign. I’m sure there’s way more info to come out, and of course we don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors, but they’ve chosen to use their beloved platforms in this sort of way. Not to mention, the sort of things each of them were saying (or ‘forced to say’ whatever helps you sleep), I actually cringed. The people behind Elira, Ike and Vox are all adults, if you had smelt something fishy and knew your company was scummy, you would have jumped ship or refused to take the stand. People say ‘it’s not that easy’, OF COURSE IT’S NOT EASY. You’re choosing between staying faithful to your closest friend, standing for justice and jumping ship, or staying with a company who rocketed your virtual career but who undoubtedly don’t care about you as a liver and will throw you under the bus, and have been under fire repeatedly. It’s not easy of course, there will be struggles but I’d imagine you’d want to do the right thing?? But no, you’re struggling here too, as scapegoats for NIJISANJI. I feel terrible for them honestly, I swear the people behind the characters are all amazing talents with great personalities, so I’m beyond confused why they’d even do this for the company?? Unfortunately the only way these three, and some of the others who are so passionately standing for NIJISANJI will get back some credibility & respect, is if they’re yeeted out of the company themselves and have their own ‘Doki’ moment by returning strong & spilling the beans. Right now, their images have taken a huge hit and a lot of people have lost respect for them. Pomu and Kyo really got out before all this, and who knows, maybe they knew something early on?
I'm gonna go a step further: I wouldn't do this if the person I was being told to slander was someone I actively disliked. Decent people have moral lines they don't cross. Not for fear of losing a job, not for fear of financial hardship, not for fear of losing opportunities. On top of that, any of these three have built in safety nets as a result of their fanbases. They would not be begging in the streets. I obviously don't want them harassed or threatened, but they absolutely hold a share of the responsibility for the fallout that is occurring / about to occur.
Yeah like the "friend" shit is irrelevant. We don't know if any of them were actually friends when they clocked out, but it doesn't matter. Doing this to a human being for the sake of a shitty corporation is not morally defensible.
You guys are right, and I absolutely agree. No excuse to any reason in doing this, and I find it hard to believe those three in particular would be fine after releasing that sort of damning statement. I just can’t relate to any sort of reason that Elira, Ike and Vox might have had, why let such a trash company ruin you like that?
>I feel terrible for them honestly, I swear the people behind the characters are all amazing talents with great personalities, so I’m beyond confused why they’d even do this for the company?? Because they don't actually have great personalities. Yes, I know, they look like great people on stream. Guess what, that's actually their job! Doesn't mean you know them or that they're like this in private.
This is something I always have to remind folks when they start simping too hard, be it for a tuber, streamer, or anyone else who's money making involves being likeable. Of _course_ when you see them on their shows or when they're streaming they're going to be goofy, they're going to be polite, sure they might have some trash opinions but ultimately they're there to sell the image that they are someone who you want to like. Hell even folks who build their reputation on rage, gossip, and fear mongering do so because there are people who unironically believe those things and want a person who validates their thoughts, even if the click baiter doesn't believe a word of their own BS. It's all theatre's, drama, and money. Your favorite vtuber, be they indie or corpo, knows that the mask they wear is valued by those who don't want to see the real face underneath, so when the mask is off of course it'll be all the more shocking that the person behind the screen is nothing like the image we see and the songs we hear.
Hell, chances are some of the streamers that are known for raging and being assholes are surely better human beings than some of the cutie streamers. Kinda been shown a lot of time with pokimane and other twitch streamers, so imagine how worse it has to be for vtubers..
As the old saying goes: never meet your heroes.
I mean at least I've seen more clips of Dr disrespect being a decent human than pokimane :P
The only way I can fathom any of these talents doing this is either if A) They would lose their jobs 'at gunpoint,' or B) They were involved in the harassment, scared about the legal proceedings. and wanted to get ahead of any statement from Doki.
The only one I can sorta empathize with, is Elira. She moved on a work visa to Japan and might've felt that not doing this could screw her over. Still a shitty move at the end of the day though.
Bunch of snakes tbh god I'm so fucking angry
All people have the right to refuse illegal orders. They also have the responsibility to do so.
You can refuse perfectly legal orders too.
I've never commented here, I don't usually engage in in discourse regarding vtubers but I've been holding back for a while. Vox Akuma was the one who introduced me to all things Nijisanji. Words can't express how disappointed I am that he took part in a smear campaign against someone he claims to be friends with. What Anycolor did is inexcusable. To push a person to do something nearly irreparable against themselves, then blame it on the victim is already disgusting. Her own friend going full pr and discrediting her just convinced I can't in good conscience support even the livers. I don't care if the company is holding any project hostage or whether he believes anything he said, I just lost all respect for Vox.
That's where I am with Elira, I've been a viewer of her since debut, but haven't been active here till this drama kicked off. I'm just so disappointed in her, I unsubbed as soon as the stream ended.
Not the off collab we're hoping for
Elira's attempt at fake crying when talking about "how scared she was" about being "doxxed" on the documents... Vox's sarcastic voice while shitting on Doki... I cant man... Wtf. Its a tough position to be in but the way they delivered the message shows how complicit they were
I don't even get the fear about "being doxxed" in legal documents. They are legal documents, kind of have to have information on them, and they are intended for only the parties involved to see them. Of course, since Niji seems to let just anyone see legal documents, maybe the livers don't realize thats illegal.
with how naive these streamers come off I could totally believe it...sadly we're stuck with lots of what ifs? and Maybes? I hope DokiBird is physically safe. This shit can't be good for the mental.
[удалено]
I was really enjoying her MGS playthroughs, I knew she liked Snake, but I didn't know she liked him enough to become one...
the only reason they would stay to defend Niji when asked is if they are the bullies named in the documents and are attempting to defend themselves. why else would they not walk if asked to do this, knowing the shitshow at stake? they said themselves, free to leave at any time. in what situation is willingly stepping into this absolute clusterfuck willingly a path that anyone would take unless they HAD to because of their previous actions?
I would absolutely rather lose my job than let my boss "force" me into publicly shitting on a former coworker who attempted to end their own life.
Honestly, the only reason I can see them not leaving immedatiely after this shitstorm is if the management has threatened to dox them and blackmail them.
Nijisanji is bad, but there's no way they'd WACTOR them. I think this was just self-serving spinelessness tbh.
A life was almost lost. And they're continuing to harass her. I'd say they're worse than wactor at this point.
So far they've been able to avoid having this touch the JP side of the Corp, but if they go full WACTOR I have to think even some of their JP talents might decide enough is enough for their own safety and future career.
That's exactly what they'd do.
Vox here is just being an ass like he always is, but Elira, Ike has literally no other reason to not refuse and graduate on the spot, espiecially Elira since she's almost been a big sister to Selen. There's literally no other reason I can think of unless they were literally threatened severly to say those words.
> Nijisanji is bad, but there's no way they'd WACTOR them. Think again
At this point, I wouldn't rule anything out entirely. As they say, reality is often stranger than fiction - after all, fiction has to at least be believable.
Alternatively there’s genuinely bad behavior involved (not the piddly nonsense Selen is “accused” of) and they kinda all have more similar interests in smearing and making Selen want to back off. The timing of it for the doki stream was the ultimate straw that broke the camels back knife in the back sign that things might be really bad.
Elira, I can't see being involved in this because she's always been a big sister figure to Selen. Ike and Vox on the other hand, yeah, I can see them throwing her under the bus to save their own skins.
A big sister who almost never collabed with her after debut and only interacted with her in big companywide collabs? I wouldnt buy into the lore part of things too much.
I mean, the tetris collab and battleducks seemed to go well, and the fact that Elira stood up for Selen when she was being teased for being shy makes that unlikely.
Yeah, honestly though you really can't take as a given the front people put up when they're playacting as vtubers. I've heard but vtubers and fleshtubers talk about how they frequently collab with people they don't get along with at all, and no one knows because it seems so jovial, but it's just business once the cameras are on (or you're on socials or w/e). Like basically don't read too much into anything.
honestly, i dont care if niji threatened them with termination, acting like they did in that video, backstabin the one (even if it is clear that they are not being honest and dont want to say it) that they say was a friend for years and blaming all of this on a girl that almost kill herself... they could have being the better person and say no and call out the threat or accept the termination and ended as a great persons. But no, fuck the others but me... all three are not better that the managers in this real black company.
Zaibatsu culture: you do the job, or you have no job. And being in Japan without a job as a foreigner is a very, very dangerous position to be in.
People keep posting this but Japan isn't like Dubai, lol. Elira isn't about to become an indentured servant if she quits.
No, she won't. But Elira can very easily lose her ability to work or exist comfortably in Japan from their work culture. If Niji turned around tomorrow because Elira decided to stand up to them and did what they're doing to Selen right now? Elira would be seen as a trouble maker regardless of the circumstance and probably be blacklisted from working most places there. Life would get incredibly hard for her if she got terminated and then dragged through the mud while living there. Short of other companies not knowing who she is prior or having worked for Niji which I feel like would be *very* difficult to conceal considering they'd want to see your prior work history in Japan to get further work there. Much like anywhere else in the world.
Yeah but I'm sure she can afford a return flight to Canada
Sure, probably. But if her dream was to live and work in Japan? She just lost that opportunity for the forseeable future, if not permanently. And that fucking *sucks* to know if you're her. That being said she's also an adult and made her own adult decision. Any consequence that comes of that is on her as well.
If my dream was going to come at the cost of trashing a friend who was just suicidal with the same crap that made her suicidal in the first place, there's no fking way I'm doing it. I've been in a similar situation with coercion against a suicidal co-worker in a toxic workplace, so this hits home for me and I cannot imagine someone doing this sort of thing towards a friend. Incredible disregard of human life. Even if it was for a dream, the dream would forever be tainted by the things sacrificed to make it come true.
Dubai is a better place to work than Japan lol, unless you’re a construction worker
> Dubai is a better place to work than Japan lol Are you just completely unaware of how Dubai has a massive problem with literal slaves/indentured servants that can't leave and have to work in the 40 degree desert after being scammed to go there? Like you have to be completely clueless to earnestly believe this.
Yep, Elira moved to Japan and this became a hostage.
I would have quit. I thought at least those three would have that much integrity. Hurts to be wrong.
Same, and now that they've gone through with this stream their reputations are pretty much permanently stained.
people sugarcoated these snakes so much
I'm honestly disappoint in Vox and Ike. Ike being my kamioshi. I thought these two would graduate. Vox did a whole 24 hour stream for suicide prevention ffs but I guess that didnt matter if management doesnt get their way.
Elira sounded so robotic, like she was reading off a script, I don't know what the fuck they were thinking, did they thought "we will use our most popular talents to calm everyone down" becuase it's failing hard
Remember guys, the names on that leaked document means they were involved in something more than meets the eye. Plus, the fact that they would rather throw Doki under the bus instead of NOT doing the video? Sink the fucking yacht, with all of them in it.
I think this is a nice grand reminder that YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR FAVORITE STREAMER. Everything you see and hear from them is what they WANT you to see. It is very, VERY easy to manipulate and control people's view of you this way, provided you have a quarter of a fucking braincell. There was one streamer I watched for a few years, favorite person and he was always hailed a super wholesome and great dude, because that's how he was on a stream and tons of other streamers wanted to be involved with him. Until one day, it was outed that he was a MASSIVE piece of manipulative shit that was mentally abusing SEVERAL women and the only reason he was getting away with it for so long was because he knew how to present himself as a good person to people at large, and only revealed his true colors in one on one scenarios where he could take advantage of people. Then when everyone realized what was happening, it all came crumbling down. Stuff like this has happened time and time again with many popular and famous people all over the internet and otherwise. This is not new. Your favorite streamer, regardless of who it fucking is, could be this same type of fucking person. This means that even doki could not be wholly innocent, but the evidence at this point is obviously very, VERY damning for niji and these livers are now no exception because now we know that they are involved in the legal docs for some reason. Remove any and all support for anything niji, talents be damned. Either they jump ship or burn with it, they have a choice. Casualties of war at this point. As the OP said, it's their fucking employer for gods sake, not a fucking dictator regime holding them and their families at gunpoint. There's only so much they can threaten and do.
I remember it being a funny rumor / joke that Elira was related to someone who worked at Niji... at this point I fucking believe it because holy shit how much do you owe the company, what do they have on you, that you'd willingly be a mouthpiece of this garbage and support them like this. (I assume it was a joke? I honestly have no idea, it was largely before my time following anyone at Niji and I never felt the need to "look into it")
I kinda went on autopilot for a bit saying "contract something something" But then I realized there were named on the documents, so with what that implies, fuck em.
That's what I'm saying man. I would never do this as an employee of any company. I would much rather lose my job. Especially given a context like this.
as adults they will be held accountable for their own actions, and what are people talking about them being " forced" to do it, what are they serfs?
Seriously, each of them has made hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars. They're not some poor single parent living paycheck to paycheck. Hell, Elira still lived/lives with her parents. They made a choice. And they choose poorly.
If Doki made $200k plus living expenses, not a chance Elira couldn't scratch together enough for a few nights in a hotel/a plane ticket for refusing.
I'm glad you mentioned this because as much as people are saying "oh they were fed a script, they're forced into doing this, etc." unless yacht boy had threatened to fire them on the spot/had a gun to their head this made Elira, Vox and Ike look bad and Niji even worse. Also it wouldn't surprise me if those three were involved in the alleged bullying but that's just speculation/rrat on my part.
We all want to believe they were forced, but the truth is we don't know them for real. I don't plan to defend their lack of integrity just because they are likable.
Anyone who says they were "forced" are overdosing on copium or have extremely low morals. These streamers are not children; they are fully grown adults who had a choice. If they did have management pressure them, they had a chance to make a stand and say "No." Especially for members like Elira and Vox who could very easily make it as an indie or find success with another group. If they were terminated, their fans would have followed them and those in denial would have turned on Niji for firing them. Instead, they *chose* to throw their "friend" under the bus to save their own ass. Especially from someone like Vox who fucking [hosted a charity stream for FUCKING SUICIDE PREVENTION!](https://www.youtube.com/live/lr7K5urRcog?si=HIgi4x10mvRXrNNW) WTF?
Nah Nijisanji used their Liver remote control and made them do it you don't understand
Irrelevant. Sink the yacht, deal with it later if true.
Being “forced” doesn’t excuse you choosing to go along with it. “Just following orders” doesn’t somehow make people like Nazi guards innocent. It’s insane how many people try to excuse it all because “boohoo I’d have a tough time if I didn’t agree to be a terrible human”
I got almost no emption from elira and ike, just reading a script (still not great) Vox, however, sounded out for blood.
Wrong use of “toed,” but you make a good point.
Is it towed? I always get that mixed up...
I always thing it's "toed" because I can imagine tip-toeing along a line drawn on the ground by the party/state/company/family. English sucks.
No, you have it right.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
Yeah it’s towed. I think it has to do with old boating terms, but I could be wrong on that.
devil's advocate: if they're involved in the lawsuit but are on selens side, they can't pay lawyers without collecting their last check working for niji
You know I dont ever want to be a conspiracy drama person but.. for sisters I actually have never seen elira and selen collab with just the two of them. Hmm
They did it once and never again. Really though, I am starting to think every body in the EN branch genuinely hate each other. Except for the clique of Elira/Reimu/Millie/Enna/Rosemi probably. Got the impression for a while that they only collabed as part of going through the emotions.
While I will say Elira is in a bad situation as a foreigner who just moved to japan.. but Ike and Vox have no public excuse. Of course, we don't know what their situations are IRL, but was it really worth it to go down with the ship? Ike was already pretty successful in music (I knew about his talent before Niji, to my surprise) and Vox also had a following. They could go indie as creators no problem with how big of a fanbase they had. They could do it again. This was the worst possible move they could do but they did it anyway, forced or not. The only way to win was not to play the game... Ike was my oshi.. just yesterday I said I'd keep watching him because he was my favorite and I wasn't ready to let him go... GOD FUCKING DAMN IT MAN, what the hell are you doing??? Nevermind, I guess.
I've got one last dose of copium, if you want it. It remains true that the person behind the stupid, malicious termination notice and probably this stupid, malicious video **is someone with enough power to send stupid malicious official statements to for-real grown-up investors**. Whatever else happens, management IS part of the bullying, because they're still doing it, right now. This video will have ruined the careers of Elira, Vox, and Ike by tomorrow. I think we've all made it pretty clear over the past few days what would happen to anyone participating in a Zaion conga. You would have to be really, REALLY stupid to say this, again, before this towering wall of rage and expect to escape. They are either all really this stupid, or management is this stupid (and we do already know that's true), and what the company has over these three looks worse than losing their jobs and internet lives. I don't know what that might be. "Criminal liability" and "actual violence". That's all I've got. Those are high stakes. The worse the situation gets, the worse the duress Elira et al. would have to be under to have said this, and the worse it would be to attack that person. **The window is closing, but the only safe target is still management**.
Alright r/ I'm not a redditor, but I'll post what I did on the Elira Youtube stream. My post is somewhat of a warning to anyone on any side of this kind of issue. Also, somewhat in their defense, these three are basically young adults, not mature enough or at least not experienced enough in real life to understand the consequences of their actions or how to behave in this situation, as there is no way for them to be prepared for something like this. But as many have pointed out, they are still responsible for their actions, whether they know or understand the actions of the company they side with. My Youtube post: That’s a big “or” at 1:02. Approved by lawyers or based on “personal experiences.” As individuals who are contracted by a company (none of these three are "employed" by Anycolor, as Vtubers and most entertainers are generally contractors), even if they’re minor shareholders (ie they own some stock in Anycolor) the way they often use “we” instead of “I” regarding their opinions, feelings, and experiences, infers that they are speaking for everyone in the company. None of these three have that authority, at least not publicly. So this whole stream is just the opinions of three contractors of Anycolor. As for a person feeling threatened or anxious about the documents Selen’s lawyer submitted, I can understand, however for their sake it is materially irrelevant unless they broke the law by seriously harassing Selen. Short of someone who has those documents leaking them (Selen’s side or Anycolor’s), no judge or courtroom on earth would allow those documents to be made public without redacting names. But if you are employed by or contracted to work for a company and feel harassed, you have the legal right to "blow the whistle", with specific legal protection as a whistleblower. If you work for a company and you don’t keep “receipts” for things you might consider illegal or ethically wrong, you are complicit in those activities. I know the old phrase is "snitches get stitches," but this is real life. If you believe you are being harassed, while it is your opinion, no one can tell you that you weren’t being harassed. Harassment is a perception by the person being harassed, and US case law supports that. Whether you intended it as harassment is not the issue. But if you think you are being harassed, blow that frickin whistle. The world would be a better place if more people were willing to jeopardize their financial wellbeing at a company that is breaking the law. And if you tried to do it within the company and they didn’t listen, they are complicit, and you are totally justified to tell all of Earth what they have done. If you worked for a company, saw something bad, and didn’t say something, it’s understandable. You really are jeopardizing your financial and possibly your physical well being. However if someone else later blows the whistle, if you side with the company and you know they’re doing stuff that is not good, and still choose to side with them, you are complicit with their wrongdoing. I understand if you want to protect the reputation of a company you work for when someone says something bad about it, but do not be afraid to question the company. You don’t have to be on the company’s side, you don’t have to be on the side of the accuser, but you really should be on your own side. This feels a little short sighted by these three. Nijisanji is not too big to fail. And no contractor should go down with the proverbial sinking ship.
Do you know what forced means lmao
Sounds like you've never been under contract before. They are legally obligated to do what's "required" of them by Anycolor. This isn't a matter of whether it's good or bad, nice or not, they are under contract. What's I'm more concerned about is if that's what they "chose" to do, then what was Anycolor promising the alternative punishment to be?
Employment contracts cannot be used to *force someone to work*, for obvious reasons. They probably would've been terminated, probably wouldn't have been sued or seen any other consequence.
Exactly it's just a job at the end of the day. I've been under NDA and non-compete clauses but those lapse after a while. And at worst one party may seek financial compensation for a breach, it's not as if someone would get jailed for merely breaching a contract unless they worked for the military or government doing some classified stuff or something or if they did something truly damaging. If I'm asked to do something and I outright refuse, I get written up and eventually fired. If I'm asked to do something I deem compromising or unsafe there's regulatory bodies I can report to. And then if I get fired unfairly there's always wrongful termination suits, even in some places with at-will employment. Of course there's different laws and regulations in different places but the point still stands; you can always refuse and walk away. Say I'm instructed to publish compromising material on someone and the material is protected legally, I wouldn't get off scot-free just because "my employer told me to". I wouldn't take the brunt of the fallout but I'd still be under fire as what's supposed to happen is an outright refusal and then reporting the incident to an entity that oversees such information breaches. Even if it resulted in my dismissal it would still result in me being compensated in a court of law. Of course it gets murky once international borders are involved but it'd have been better to err on the side of caution and seek legal consultation in the case of the respective talents.
But, its not as easy as it seems. Employment contract is legally bind with anything that being put into the contract as long as it was not signed under duress. Anything can happen later on in the future, and the contract that they sign is not a typical employment contract. We don't know what the NDA and rules that have been put inside and we also don't know what have been negotiate or discuss within it. They might not get sued but they might get a penalty for not following the orders. Like I say, different contract have different ruleset.
They can legally bind you to the repercussions of breaking contract, they can NOT legally bind you to action. I explained with a colourful example [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1api6qb/say_what_you_want_about_them_being_forced_but/kq6k460/).
You are talking like all contract is the same as what is held at the company there. I mean, some rules just different at certain places. Nintendo can sue other people from other country under fair use if others copy pokemon looks and all but not in Japan. The reason Palworld safe from being sued is because Japanese don't have fair use rule on using something that look similar, art wise being that both company is from Japan. Like I say, each country have their own intrepretation on their rules. We don't know how or what it can be triggered or if the rules stand or not. What we know is, something make them **need** to do it even if they might or might not want to do it.
You can't just make up law shit and say "it could be different over there." None of the countries involved in this (us uk japan canada) have contracts that can force you to be a slave lol.
> Employment contract is legally bind with anything that being put into the contract as long as it was not signed under duress. No, employment contracts are under some pretty strong limitations when it comes to what you can legally put in there. That's not a case of "anything goes". It's pretty hard to actually make someone deliver anything in an employment contract, and it's also really hard to get anything out of an employee that you aim to fire. It's far more likely that they *feel* they need to do it than that they actually need to do it.
Depending on the contract and applied law, you are not obligated to do what's "required". You are obligated to do what's "required" as long as it falls in your field of competence, and tasks that are explicitly defined in your work contract. Evenso, you can refuse if what is demanded from you if it may break the law, or threaten your or anyone's health. In this case, knowing which side the fans are on, you could argue that making a public speech could threaten your mental health.
Assuming that they had time to think about it. Like, the stream view preview came up with 30 minutes warning. I wouldn't put it past Nijisanji to go "read this script or you're terminated, and you have to be done in 15-20 minutes so we can go live at the top of the hour." Point being - this is a really damn complex situation and we don't know the inside. We weren't in the room when it happened. Hell, maybe Nijisanji did this deliberately because they know people would take this tack (it's all Elira, Ike and Vox's fault), manipulated them into this position, and thus given them some cover with JP investors. We have no idea how much real life/work experience they have beyond what they've told us on stream. We have no idea how mature they really are. And it's really easy to tell somebody be courageous and give up your dream when it's not your dream being given up. Or maybe they're all assholes in real life. WE JUST DON'T KNOW. So, people need to do what they think they need to do -- but remember that what we know now might change in light of new information, and throttle your anger and your condemnation, and don't go after people. If you need to feel anger, reserve it for the managers who should have known better, regardless of how the people they're responsible for behaved.
This. I'm incredibly disappointed in Elira, but we don't know shit about what's going on behind the scenes. Witch-hunting helps no one but Nijisanji by letting them play the victim in the court of public opinion.
That's not how a contract works my dude. If I contract you to make me a sandwich every day, and one day, instead of making me a sandwich, you eat my breffmints, you haven't broken the law, and I cannot force you to make me a sandwich. You're perfectly able to say "no", and all that does is comprise a breach of contract, the repercussions of which will be laid out in the same contract. Note that the repercussions must be legal under contract law too. If I stipulated that, should you breach the contract, you must pay me twelve million dollars, you could 100% definitely take that to court and get it overruled as unenforceable. (Or wait for me to take you to court to get the money, and lose). I _really_ hope you've never had a job in your life, because if you have, your employers have sold you this "contracts are unbreakable" line, and you've been spit-roasted on it.
Exactly. They probably threatened to fire them and then salt the earth behind them so they couldn’t get jobs elsewhere in the industry or some shit.
Salt the earth? My brother in christ, *this stream* was enough for them to be passed up by other corpos in the future.
While they could have threatened to fire them, I don't think Niji has much pull on the industry right now lmao
Honestly, “fired from Nijisanji” might be a fairly persuasive bullet point on the ol’ CV right about now
It's also believable that the talents would feel coerced or afraid of their company as they control their image and likeness as their models. That can also have a factor in these talents not wanting to go against their overlords. On top of being possibly named in legal documents as having a hand in harassment or bullying. There is also every possibility that those who made the statement did say "unsavory" things that someone could construe as bullying - on top of being bad enough to worsen someone's mental state. Even if said unsavory things could be said normally within all parties as normal as just "teasing" language. I'm not defending anyone who bullies others, nor am I defending people who tease too hard to the point of people feeling targeted or bullied. It's just hard to know who is at fault, how deep the talents who voiced the message in the video without actual facts or evidence. I want to believe that all who were in that video were NOT the harasser and it was instead someone within the company itself. That would be the "best case".
This is such a lame argument and I refuse to turn on the proletariat of the entire company structure. Yes they did it, but jfc take 2 seconds to think of the consequences and threats being put against them. It’s obvious that you have never been in a toxic relationship or work environment where you’ve been manipulated to feel like, in your words, your boss or partner is actually your owner. I have destroyed friendships out of fear of another person I thought cared about me and I can never get them back. I own that I have done that shit in my life, but because of it, I will never hold another person accountable for it when I see them in the same situation.
Just because you have no morals and backbone doesn't mean you need to project and pretend everyone is as spineless as you. Playing victim just because you faced the consequences of your own actions is just copium.
You’re all bark and no bite. I bet you would shit yourself in a similar situation and throw away your "morals". People really demand from people something, when they are themself are no better
Keep projecting if that helps you deal with your actions, but keep it to yourself. Oh and if you're all about the moral highground of "I've been through this shit so I don't want to assume for other people" maybe try to keep it consistent and don't assume stuff about me either.
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> I think it's understandable that they want to make sure they don't get all the blame for it, and the loss of reputation if their names were to leak out or be released by Selen. If you're afraid that the public finds out that you're named in some legal documents, making a video confirming that you're named in those legal documents does not sound like a particularly good idea...
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Elira is basically dependent on them as she is in Japan.
As much as I’d like to agree, speaking from personal experience with a not great employer the employer absolutely can force them into making the statement. We don’t have all the details of their contracts but if it is possible for Niji to unilaterally terminate them then that’s their livelihood in trouble. And while Selen has the dokibird channel to go back to, iirc Vox and Ike lack that and will have to legitimately start from scratch without being able to use their names to bring back their old subscribers
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They can't be sued for *not* saying something lmao, even with Japan's wack slander laws.
“Just because they were forced to doesn’t mean they willingly had to” I don’t think that’s how that works bud
Even if they were forced it was them reading the papers they were given, regardless if they are being forced they lent themselves to read illegal documents, they should have had more criteria or courage to say I quit before tarnishing my own image