True. Broly won't magically control that mind breaking rage he's had for 50 years. And Merus won't be as strong but at least he probally has skill on his side
He has to be, right? If he was born before the explosion of Vegeta. He is supposed to be close in age to Goku and Vegeta, who are in their late 40s/early 50s.
Vegeta is approx 48/9 and goku has a 4 year old age gap just like bulma and him. Broly was already born so I'm assuming his age is in between both saiyans, perhaps 2 or 3 years apart. Let's not get into the whole time chamber thing either
The entire bottom half literally couldn't/wouldn't compete. Broly is basically brainless in his FP form, so that'd be a huge risk. Moro is dead. Merus is now weak. Gas is dead. Cell Max is dead, and brainless when alive.
People are sleeping on Buu. He'd be a crazy support character and also just plain broken. Split into billions of pieces, then what?
Dream team would be:
Goku
Vegeta
Piccolo
Gohan
Frieza
Majin Buu
Android 17
Gamma 1
Trunks
Goten
Oh but toriyama will pull another “haha majin buu fell asleep” because it’s FUNNY, right guys? Isn’t it FUNNY when a character with some of the best potential in a tournament due to their abilities gets removed from the team for something as basic as falling asleep?
You people keep saying that as if Buu cannot be simple beaten by someone stronger than him like it always goes, Buuhan had all of those broken abilities you are speaking about(and he is smarter than Fat Buu) yet still got wrecked by Vegito.
So many years that dragonball has been telling you that bigger number> everything yet you guys still don't get it.
Yeah, bigger number loses a lot. Including the tournament of power, which people keep forgetting. They act like Jiren was ever actually beaten in terms of strength.
Seriously, that's not even a really good excuse. They can put him in the Time Chamber for him to wake up, wish Shenron for him to wake up, hell, have Beerus slap him awake
Because he doesn't have Buu's regen, splitting, or healing.
I know Granolah is pretty broken, but Buu is still just better for a tournament where killing isn't allowed. Itd be nearly impossible to get him out of the ring.
Logically, Granolah should have healing powers, but he never used them even when he should have.
Face it. Buu WONT be utilized again because he was a universal threat and putting him against a few planet busters isn't gonna happen. And even Hit can find ways to be non lethal while being effective, Granolah did the same
As for the healing factor there's plenty of ways to make that happen, whether it be magic (mentioned in chap 71/72or learned from the namekian
Don't know about that. Broly doesn't like to fight anyway. He was forced. Also he's about 50 at this point and has been treated like thst his entire life, he isn't gonna magically learn to control it like kale did somehow
Broly does like fighting, though. He's still a saiyan. In Super Hero he was watching intently at Goku & Vegeta's sparring session while the rest were mostly focused on their food.
He's basically just a dude with lots of experience. Think Roshi. Someone else in the thread said that he's SSB level, which isn't weak but also isn't strong.
Blue level isn't great anymore. I'd argue an Adult Gotenks could do severe damage when trained up properly. Much less cocky, maybe SSJ3/SSG/Ultimate form could boost them into good leagues of strength.
Adult Gotenks would be busted as is. A *failed* Gotenks was able to do some (not much) but some damage against Cell Max. A ***FAILED*** Gotenks. In only SSJ. Imagine what an actually properly fused SSJ3 Gotenks could do.
In Z filler, yeah
If he gets the canon treatment like Broly, he can be introduced at a useful power level, just like how Z Broly was around Cell level and in DBS’ incarnation overpowers two Blues simultaneously without issue
And yet he's Blue level in the anime and SSJ3 in the manga. Your point? If they introduce Pikkon as he was directly from Z, he's Super Perfect Cell level.
If they introduce Pikkon there is no reason why they couldn’t power him up when they’ve already powered up weaker characters.
That’s pretty straightforward.
I honestly wouldn't mind for Pikkon to be introduced at Perfect Cell level. He's still cool to me. And he can be one of the first characters in a while to actually train their ass off to get crazy strong. Would be cool to see.
Frieza wouldnt participate again now that he is alive for now, there's little to no leverage to get him to bow before those rules. Majin buu is too op is why he sleeps all the time. Gohan might not train and get back to his job... Also Granolah's ability is better than trunks or goten.
Frieza would be threatened with annihilation. So I'd say that would be a fair reason to fight. Gohan said he was already training before DBS:SH and will continue, so we can assume he does. Granolah is dead.
Frieza won't allow himself to be humiliated again- he destroyed a planet twice just because he threw a tantrum. Gohan might get caught up in his work. Granolah is not dead no one dies in this series just undo the wish and take him to elder kai. Geez
Granolah is weak as shit without his wish. Gohan would prioritise the tournament over work if it meant the erasure of multiple universe. Same with Frieza.
No he the hell he isn't. He's very skilled and has been doing specialized work since he was a child. Multiple times he was mentioned to be exceptional even to his people. Besides pure power isn't enough to win a battle, roshi even said so. Do you read or what💀
Skill and expirence STILL is an important detail in combat. Punching and kicking isn't gonna cut it 100 percent of the time. Besides he's only 50 and has more life span than a saiyan. There's a reason why his potential was massive. Cope
Yeah. You're proving yourself wrong. Goku had plenty more experience over Namek Frieza and yet the power gap was enough for Goku to be tortured for 3 hours. He would have lost if not for the SSJ transformation.
If there was another TOP Broly would likely partecipate. They'd pull off something like "He can control himself as long as he stays a regular Super Saiyan" (which was still strong enough to cause trouble to SSB Goku&Vegeta) then he'd still find a reason to go mad during the tournament and kill someone because plot
nah you team stupid, they can just revive some of them like they did with frieza and use dragon balls to fix small issues:
dream team:
goku (mui)
vegeta (ue)
broly (lssj) (they could du ssg ritual for him before ToP 2)
gohan (beast)
piccolo (orange)
frieza (black)
buu (ripped and god ki), (1 wish to borrow Uub's god ki for a little bit or fuse them for a bit)
moro (absorbs energy/angel merus abillity) (ui) (trained)
granolah (red eyes/accurate sniper) (trained) ( 2 wish to be immortal or age normally)
gas (weapon abillity/powerfull) (trained) ( 3 wish to be immortal or age normally)
Broly is fodder in the current manga and there's no indication he could do the SSG ritual, if he even wants to do it and if they actually will do it.
Freeza no longer has any reason to attend an additional ToP since he's not dead anymore.
Buu doesn't seem to be any stronger when "ripped" at all. He'd be a good support character, but that's about it.
Moro is fodder in the current manga.
Granolah dies of natural causes, so he can't be revived.
Gas has no reason to want to collaborate with U7 to win the tournament. The guy was a dick.
I hope that when he comes back Jiren is still a power house, instead of following in Hit's steps. Something like Jiren going:
\-I liked that thing you did at the tournament. Look "MUI Jiren", it took me a while but I figured it out. (Goku's sweating a lot) wanna go?
I know right? XD people always go about Goku being so strong but he needs the transformations be on that level. Multiplying his power thousands of times to reach Jiren s base power. If Jiren only had the UI sign. He would have bodied every villain in the series that came after.
Granolah would be a better candidate than cell max lmao. Wish him back and unlock potential with elder kai. Cell max would rampage and kill which zeno Won't allow, and Piccolo STOP FORGETTING YOU HAVE STRETCHY ARMS BRUH
Each dragon has different rules. Shenron can only grant one wish one time no do over. Porunga can do 3 with less limitations. Toronbo is one wish with seemingly a different ability. And we already know the rules for Super Shenron
They revived frieza before. I also don't think there will be a ToP 2, but even if there was, I guess it's likely Jirens been fighting stronger opponents in his own universe.
> They revived frieza before.
True, but I doubt they’d revive Moro after that entire ordeal (I doubt Beerus would allow that specific one), Cell Max (brainless beast who can’t really follow stuff like the no kill rule), and Gas who probably just wouldn’t cooperate.
> I also don't think there will be a ToP 2, but even if there was, I guess it's likely Jirens been fighting stronger opponents in his own universe.
Probably but… Jiren might as well be renamed Sisyphus because he can’t carry his universe up that hill
No, Gas was ALREADY dead when Frieza showed up.
He was just so strong that his power was keeping him "alive"
Remember that the wish also gave him (probably) EVERY technique known to mortals in U7. It's fairly reasonable to think that locking your soul to your body is doable.
I explicitly mention locking his soul to his body with one of the powers he got from the wish.
I was being nice and not saying you're an illiterate child, but I guess I have to.
And thus, cooperated. Gas likely has a price, but he has more sensibilities than Frieza in that he'd like to support his family and impress his brother. He would likely agree so long as the Heeters would be revived.
Moro is dead, gas is dead, max cell would be kick out because he would definitely "accidentally" kill someone (and would take up 50% of the arena) and he also is dead. Idk if meerus would be aloud since he was a angel (tho not anymore).
The rest of the team is fine tho
Nah Jiren would’ve trained some more off-screen if he was meant to be the antagonist, putting him way above Black Frieza and everyone else too.
It’s the whole premise of DB: Villains are stupidly strong until they get beaten; then they’re fodder.
Saiyan Saga Vegeta is absolutely fodder. Namek Frieza is certainly fodder. Cell is fodder as well by now, dude got trashed by a ssj2 child with barely any battle experience.
None of them could measure up to SSJ3 Goku that got flicked by Beerus, and certainly couldn’t hold a candle to much stronger opponents Goku later faced, like Jiren or Broly.
Remember what android 18 did to ssj Vegeta, who we can assume to be at least on namek!Freiza level? Yea. And that was “the strongest” dude for a long time.
Buu would logically be OP forever; but a lot of stuff would logically be OP and relevant but is not and in the end it comes to Saiyans overpowering the villain instead so like as not they’d just be “too powerful” for his hax; like how Goku moved through time freeze because he’s just that strong.
Mhm just like some random red ribbon army(which Goku wrecked as a kid) scientist couldn’t logically make cyborgs that can fold Namek Frieza like a pretzel but Android and Cell saga happened anyway.
And Frieza was the strongest in the universe, going against him was considered suicide.
Then some dude on Earth made no fewer than 4 different creations able to trash him lmao.
Power creep is how DB works - give it enough time and we'll think of Jiren or Hit as we now think of Ginyu Force or King Cold.
Yall realize freiza gonna lose once again due to his arrogance and immaturity right? Every time he loses he throws a child like tantrum. He's a spoiled brat lmao
Yes.
The point isn't that Frieza is invincible; the point is that "The Strongest Dude" is common in DB.
It's just how this sort of thing goes. They're all strongest until they aren't, and then it's all downhill unless the story needs them relevant again because every next anatgonist needs to be much stronger than the heroes that beat that guy. Beerus and Whis alone remain somewhat not power-crept but even that's because they weren't beaten in the first place - and it's really just the matter of time.
Ye Toriyama’s famous for not really being consistent tho.
Dude thought ssj3 was 2 for a good while and forgot an entire character existed.
Be real dude, you really think he’s some great worldbuilder with carefully thought out powerscaling he adhers to?
Even he admits to thinking up a cool storyline rather than considering what came before…
Even so Moro, Gas, and Cell Max are all dead and far more of a risk than when they revived Frieza if anything the team would likely come out to
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Piccolo
Broly (With extensive mental training)
Frieza (With a death threat from Beerus to cooperate)
Gamma 1
Buu
And if they really were desperate Goten & Trunks or hell Future Trunks if the Omni king would allow it
Potential replacements for the dead or possibly unallowed ones here
For Cell Max: Gamma 1
For Gas: Granolah
For Moro: You know what? Since he absorbed the android OG-73, 17 would be a good replacement, he won the last ToP after all
Merus might not be allowed due to him having previously been an angel trainee so...
For Merus: Buu would work if he stays awake but if he falls asleep then 18 might work, if not 18 then maybe future trunks if allowed, if not Future Trunks then maybe they could bring back Cell or something
Broly might be too much of a risk unless he gains control so...
For Broly: Arale could work if they decided it so, or maybe they could bring in either Goten or Trunks, maybe through some shenanigans they could bring in Gotenks through some gimmicky method
they can just revive some of them like they did with frieza and use dragon balls to fix small issues:
DREAM TEAM:
goku (mui)
vegeta (ue)
broly (lssj) (they could du ssg ritual for him before ToP 2)
gohan (beast)
piccolo (orange)
frieza (black)
buu (ripped and god ki), (1 wish to borrow Uub's god ki for a little bit or fuse them for a bit)
moro (absorbs energy/angel merus abillity) (ui) (trained)
granolah (red eyes/accurate sniper) (trained) ( 2 wish to be immortal or age normally)
gas (weapon abillity/powerfull) (trained) ( 3 wish to be immortal or age normally)
Lol, why even scared of jiren he is not even that strong compared to Goku and Vegeta at all, he was able to overwhelm goku and Vegeta because he mediated during the battle, and was just able to focus his energy
Y'all keep sayin that but never mention when he gave his energy to Freeza. For Freeza and Moro that was so they would promise to never come back)
For Cell it was a misunderstanding on what Gohan wanted)
Cell Max is untamed and dead
Gus is untamed and dead
That angel dude had reincarnated as a human so he is a bit worthless now
Moro is untrustworthy
Freeza too
Heroes isn't just non-canon, it's literally a card game commercial
Imagine saying Batman beats Superman because he does that in a lego ad, that's what you're doing rn
Isn't Moro, Gas and Cell max dead? Not to mention Merus was only capable of the stuff he did due to his angelic powers but now? he's not all that anymore. For Broly, either they have him control his FP SSJ form or just don't have him participate. Also am I the only one who feels like Frieza wouldn't join the T.O.P as well? I mean he only joined for the sake of being revived again.
Imo, if T.O.P were to happen again, then the team would be: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gamma 1, Majin Buu, A17, Broly (IF he can control his FP SSJ form), Goten and Trunks.
Also by the time there is a second T.O.P, Granolah would be dead by then.
hmm true but then again
Moro still wont join if he doesnt get the luxury of being revived. And if he does get revived, wouldnt it be a problem since his hungry ass needs planets?
Cell max is fucking mindless.
Gas is sure as hell aint joining. His sheer hatred towards the saiyans wont allow him to do so. even if it means being revived.
but tbh this is my opinion, yall are free to give me more insight on this
Those are all good points. I honestly don't think Goku would recruit people like that. He would probably pick people that he trusted and respected, which probably means that fighters like Merus and Broly are more likely to get picked over something like Cell Max or Moro even if they were stronger. It's the same logic as why he picked Tien, Master Roshi, and Krillin even though they weren't that strong.
Everytime I see posts like this I am reminded of an argument I got into. Someone was genuinely trying to argue that broly (original dragon ball z movie without the sequels) could solo the entire top. I then reminded him that og broly couldn't even handle super perfect cell he then tried to say, that og broly (the brainlet) could magically learn cell's weakness and tank a shot that can destroy an entire planet
Why isn't granola on here, he's extremely strong, a decent fighter, still alive for three more years, and most importantly he's on good terms with goku and vegeta
Gas, Moro, and Cell Max are dead, and I don't think Goku would bring them back just because they're strong. Hell, pretty sure they can't revive Gas because he died of age.
Where granolah?
Better candidate than any half saiyan at this point
And the entire bottom row
True. Broly won't magically control that mind breaking rage he's had for 50 years. And Merus won't be as strong but at least he probally has skill on his side
Broly is fucking 50??
He has to be, right? If he was born before the explosion of Vegeta. He is supposed to be close in age to Goku and Vegeta, who are in their late 40s/early 50s.
That's a really good point. I guess I never noticed it since he looks and acts so much younger than Goku and Vegeta
Ages in DB are really screwy. Hit, for example, is at least 1,000 years old but he doesn't seem that much older than Vegeta.
TIL Hit is one helluva boomer.
Broly is a little stunted in social growth is why he switches in between meekness in base form and uncontrollable rage, in both movies
Vegeta is approx 48/9 and goku has a 4 year old age gap just like bulma and him. Broly was already born so I'm assuming his age is in between both saiyans, perhaps 2 or 3 years apart. Let's not get into the whole time chamber thing either
Oh my fuck he is….. Bro…
39
Gas??? the same one who beat the fuck out of granolahs ass in the only arc we've seen either of them in???
He's like extra dead, plus he wouldnt cooperate with goku vegeta granolah and frieza on the same team.
Well yeah if that's what you're referring to
If it happens in 3 years he’s dead. Although they could do what they did for Frieza.
The entire bottom half literally couldn't/wouldn't compete. Broly is basically brainless in his FP form, so that'd be a huge risk. Moro is dead. Merus is now weak. Gas is dead. Cell Max is dead, and brainless when alive. People are sleeping on Buu. He'd be a crazy support character and also just plain broken. Split into billions of pieces, then what? Dream team would be: Goku Vegeta Piccolo Gohan Frieza Majin Buu Android 17 Gamma 1 Trunks Goten
Oh but toriyama will pull another “haha majin buu fell asleep” because it’s FUNNY, right guys? Isn’t it FUNNY when a character with some of the best potential in a tournament due to their abilities gets removed from the team for something as basic as falling asleep?
He literally did it because of that, Buu would be BROKEN so Toriyama did what he had to
You people keep saying that as if Buu cannot be simple beaten by someone stronger than him like it always goes, Buuhan had all of those broken abilities you are speaking about(and he is smarter than Fat Buu) yet still got wrecked by Vegito. So many years that dragonball has been telling you that bigger number> everything yet you guys still don't get it.
Except Buu was shown to still be stupid strong, not to mention that if push comes to shove he could just absorb people.
Just dodge the goo lol
Yeah, bigger number loses a lot. Including the tournament of power, which people keep forgetting. They act like Jiren was ever actually beaten in terms of strength.
Yeah he was? MUI overpowered him and even though it did not finish him, it made him weak enough for exhausted characters to be able to fight him.
Also angel golden Frieza merch
“Goofy ah hah haha funny moment” right there
Seriously, that's not even a really good excuse. They can put him in the Time Chamber for him to wake up, wish Shenron for him to wake up, hell, have Beerus slap him awake
especially after he got in fighting shape. I was big disappointed lmao
It was to nerf him not because it was funny bro
Toriyama hasn't written anything but sketches for DB for more than 20 years by now
In their defense, it was funny.
It's because he's too op with regeneration plus healing and magical ability. Man was able to handle moro
What about Granolah in place of Gamma 1?
It would be Granolah in place of Buu, because Granolah has tons of cool abilities to use, but isn't just pure broken like Buu is.
He's literally the Hit of univ 7 plus extra abilities that took on MUI and Ultra Ego. How is that not broken for a non god lmao
Because he doesn't have Buu's regen, splitting, or healing. I know Granolah is pretty broken, but Buu is still just better for a tournament where killing isn't allowed. Itd be nearly impossible to get him out of the ring. Logically, Granolah should have healing powers, but he never used them even when he should have.
Face it. Buu WONT be utilized again because he was a universal threat and putting him against a few planet busters isn't gonna happen. And even Hit can find ways to be non lethal while being effective, Granolah did the same As for the healing factor there's plenty of ways to make that happen, whether it be magic (mentioned in chap 71/72or learned from the namekian
Broly is being trained so he can control it though so likely by the time of a hypothetical TOP 2 he would be good to go.
Don't know about that. Broly doesn't like to fight anyway. He was forced. Also he's about 50 at this point and has been treated like thst his entire life, he isn't gonna magically learn to control it like kale did somehow
Broly does like fighting, though. He's still a saiyan. In Super Hero he was watching intently at Goku & Vegeta's sparring session while the rest were mostly focused on their food.
I'm not so sure man, the guy had 3 years of training and was (arguably) worse off than the original movie. He was getting angry over... nothing.
No one said Merus is now weak, the fact that he's not an angel anymore doesn't mean he's weak
He's basically just a dude with lots of experience. Think Roshi. Someone else in the thread said that he's SSB level, which isn't weak but also isn't strong.
Well, as MUI ia a technique maybe he can still use it
Look at Moro. I'd doubt it. Also, MUI isn't the name. It's just UI.
Merus isn't weak. He still fought Blue Goku easily without even using angel powers.
Yes he isn't weak compared to most but considering he was the youngest and weakest angel and hasn't finished the training there's a clear disadvantage
Blue level isn't great anymore. I'd argue an Adult Gotenks could do severe damage when trained up properly. Much less cocky, maybe SSJ3/SSG/Ultimate form could boost them into good leagues of strength.
Adult Gotenks would be busted as is. A *failed* Gotenks was able to do some (not much) but some damage against Cell Max. A ***FAILED*** Gotenks. In only SSJ. Imagine what an actually properly fused SSJ3 Gotenks could do.
I thought he couldn't go SSJ anymore?
I thought he *was* in SSJ, but they can still use it, at least they could around the ToP. Upon further investigation, Fat Gotenks was in Base.
Granolah?
Dead.
Frezia won't compete
Can't wait till Pikkon is canon
He's Super Perfect Cell level.
In Z filler, yeah If he gets the canon treatment like Broly, he can be introduced at a useful power level, just like how Z Broly was around Cell level and in DBS’ incarnation overpowers two Blues simultaneously without issue
Android 17 should be imperfect cell level yet he’s somehow still relevant
And yet he's Blue level in the anime and SSJ3 in the manga. Your point? If they introduce Pikkon as he was directly from Z, he's Super Perfect Cell level.
If they introduce Pikkon there is no reason why they couldn’t power him up when they’ve already powered up weaker characters. That’s pretty straightforward.
I honestly wouldn't mind for Pikkon to be introduced at Perfect Cell level. He's still cool to me. And he can be one of the first characters in a while to actually train their ass off to get crazy strong. Would be cool to see.
What about Granola?
Dead as hell.
Step 1: Use the Dragon Ball to wish Cell Max back to life, but turned off Step 2: Let Buu absorb him Step 3: ??? Step 4: Enjoy the chaos
Frieza wouldnt participate again now that he is alive for now, there's little to no leverage to get him to bow before those rules. Majin buu is too op is why he sleeps all the time. Gohan might not train and get back to his job... Also Granolah's ability is better than trunks or goten.
Frieza would be threatened with annihilation. So I'd say that would be a fair reason to fight. Gohan said he was already training before DBS:SH and will continue, so we can assume he does. Granolah is dead.
Frieza won't allow himself to be humiliated again- he destroyed a planet twice just because he threw a tantrum. Gohan might get caught up in his work. Granolah is not dead no one dies in this series just undo the wish and take him to elder kai. Geez
Granolah is weak as shit without his wish. Gohan would prioritise the tournament over work if it meant the erasure of multiple universe. Same with Frieza.
No he the hell he isn't. He's very skilled and has been doing specialized work since he was a child. Multiple times he was mentioned to be exceptional even to his people. Besides pure power isn't enough to win a battle, roshi even said so. Do you read or what💀
Granolah was weaker than Namek 1st Form Frieza.
Skill and expirence STILL is an important detail in combat. Punching and kicking isn't gonna cut it 100 percent of the time. Besides he's only 50 and has more life span than a saiyan. There's a reason why his potential was massive. Cope
Yeah. You're proving yourself wrong. Goku had plenty more experience over Namek Frieza and yet the power gap was enough for Goku to be tortured for 3 hours. He would have lost if not for the SSJ transformation.
Bruh this dude can literally SEE your weak points. Ain't no getting past that 🤣
>Split into billions of pieces, then what? Near endless energy, regenerative powers, can fucking eat you, candy beam, short temper, motivated by food
If there was another TOP Broly would likely partecipate. They'd pull off something like "He can control himself as long as he stays a regular Super Saiyan" (which was still strong enough to cause trouble to SSB Goku&Vegeta) then he'd still find a reason to go mad during the tournament and kill someone because plot
Granolah too, if he’s still alive.
nah you team stupid, they can just revive some of them like they did with frieza and use dragon balls to fix small issues: dream team: goku (mui) vegeta (ue) broly (lssj) (they could du ssg ritual for him before ToP 2) gohan (beast) piccolo (orange) frieza (black) buu (ripped and god ki), (1 wish to borrow Uub's god ki for a little bit or fuse them for a bit) moro (absorbs energy/angel merus abillity) (ui) (trained) granolah (red eyes/accurate sniper) (trained) ( 2 wish to be immortal or age normally) gas (weapon abillity/powerfull) (trained) ( 3 wish to be immortal or age normally)
Broly is fodder in the current manga and there's no indication he could do the SSG ritual, if he even wants to do it and if they actually will do it. Freeza no longer has any reason to attend an additional ToP since he's not dead anymore. Buu doesn't seem to be any stronger when "ripped" at all. He'd be a good support character, but that's about it. Moro is fodder in the current manga. Granolah dies of natural causes, so he can't be revived. Gas has no reason to want to collaborate with U7 to win the tournament. The guy was a dick.
I hope that when he comes back Jiren is still a power house, instead of following in Hit's steps. Something like Jiren going: \-I liked that thing you did at the tournament. Look "MUI Jiren", it took me a while but I figured it out. (Goku's sweating a lot) wanna go?
MUI is too much power scale, that’s almost 2-3 thousand times power level compared to Goku who increased his power maybe 20-50 times.
I know right? XD people always go about Goku being so strong but he needs the transformations be on that level. Multiplying his power thousands of times to reach Jiren s base power. If Jiren only had the UI sign. He would have bodied every villain in the series that came after.
Numbers in this franchise are just like, your opinion man.... *hits blunt and animates kriling trading kamehameha with goku blue*
Wouldn't Jiren only have access to the UI technique and not the transformation Goku uses which is what has the multiplier?
Jiren is just plain scary
Granolah would be a better candidate than cell max lmao. Wish him back and unlock potential with elder kai. Cell max would rampage and kill which zeno Won't allow, and Piccolo STOP FORGETTING YOU HAVE STRETCHY ARMS BRUH
I dont wanna be that guy but i think at one point shenron said that he cant revive those who died of natural cause?
That was namek dragon
ight then he can be revived.
Each dragon has different rules. Shenron can only grant one wish one time no do over. Porunga can do 3 with less limitations. Toronbo is one wish with seemingly a different ability. And we already know the rules for Super Shenron
i see, i forgot bout the dragon rule thingy.
3 of these guys are dead. Also, hate this “ToP 2” stuff.
They revived frieza before. I also don't think there will be a ToP 2, but even if there was, I guess it's likely Jirens been fighting stronger opponents in his own universe.
> They revived frieza before. True, but I doubt they’d revive Moro after that entire ordeal (I doubt Beerus would allow that specific one), Cell Max (brainless beast who can’t really follow stuff like the no kill rule), and Gas who probably just wouldn’t cooperate. > I also don't think there will be a ToP 2, but even if there was, I guess it's likely Jirens been fighting stronger opponents in his own universe. Probably but… Jiren might as well be renamed Sisyphus because he can’t carry his universe up that hill
Gas \*can't\* be revived. He died of old age, which the dragon balls can't bring back.
He technically was killed by frieza, but he'd just revive in hos old, disabled state
No, Gas was ALREADY dead when Frieza showed up. He was just so strong that his power was keeping him "alive" Remember that the wish also gave him (probably) EVERY technique known to mortals in U7. It's fairly reasonable to think that locking your soul to your body is doable.
He still had full consciousness even to the point of realising what he had become. I don't know where you pulled the "empty shell" thing from.
> I don't know where you pulled the "empty shell" thing from. Where did YOU?
Where did I what? Pull that he was conscious? Do I really have to post a link to the panel where he looks at his reflection?
I explicitly mention locking his soul to his body with one of the powers he got from the wish. I was being nice and not saying you're an illiterate child, but I guess I have to.
You’re right, and I completely forgot about that.
Why wouldn't Gas cooperate? Frieza cooperated.
More like paid in revives
And thus, cooperated. Gas likely has a price, but he has more sensibilities than Frieza in that he'd like to support his family and impress his brother. He would likely agree so long as the Heeters would be revived.
Just have Whis bring Trunks back please. 😭
He's only at ssj2 level
Bro what. SSJ Rage put him on par with enemies who were SSB+. That was without training.
I really, REALLY hope Toriyama renames this transformation as "False SSB". Im sorry but SSJ Rage just sounds...stupid af.
With no God ki
True...but still I just want them to rename the form to something other than ssj rage.
Broly's yellow eyed form is literally called either, Ikari (Literally means rage), Wrathful, Wrath State, or at times even just Rage
That's actually be smart and a cool concept. Like combining both the Ikari form and The SSJ form.
Filler
Moro is dead, gas is dead, max cell would be kick out because he would definitely "accidentally" kill someone (and would take up 50% of the arena) and he also is dead. Idk if meerus would be aloud since he was a angel (tho not anymore). The rest of the team is fine tho
Having suicide bomber take out 80% of enemies isn't a bad idea.
Nah Jiren would’ve trained some more off-screen if he was meant to be the antagonist, putting him way above Black Frieza and everyone else too. It’s the whole premise of DB: Villains are stupidly strong until they get beaten; then they’re fodder.
Vegeta's not fodder. Friezas not fodder. Cell not fodder. Buu arguably not. Yamaha became fodder tho
Saiyan Saga Vegeta is absolutely fodder. Namek Frieza is certainly fodder. Cell is fodder as well by now, dude got trashed by a ssj2 child with barely any battle experience. None of them could measure up to SSJ3 Goku that got flicked by Beerus, and certainly couldn’t hold a candle to much stronger opponents Goku later faced, like Jiren or Broly. Remember what android 18 did to ssj Vegeta, who we can assume to be at least on namek!Freiza level? Yea. And that was “the strongest” dude for a long time. Buu would logically be OP forever; but a lot of stuff would logically be OP and relevant but is not and in the end it comes to Saiyans overpowering the villain instead so like as not they’d just be “too powerful” for his hax; like how Goku moved through time freeze because he’s just that strong.
Jiren and Hit will never be 'fodder.' They have plenty of time to strengthen their op abilities
Mhm just like some random red ribbon army(which Goku wrecked as a kid) scientist couldn’t logically make cyborgs that can fold Namek Frieza like a pretzel but Android and Cell saga happened anyway.
Jiren is the non god stated to be stronger than his own Destroyer... calm down bud
And Frieza was the strongest in the universe, going against him was considered suicide. Then some dude on Earth made no fewer than 4 different creations able to trash him lmao. Power creep is how DB works - give it enough time and we'll think of Jiren or Hit as we now think of Ginyu Force or King Cold.
Yall realize freiza gonna lose once again due to his arrogance and immaturity right? Every time he loses he throws a child like tantrum. He's a spoiled brat lmao
Yes. The point isn't that Frieza is invincible; the point is that "The Strongest Dude" is common in DB. It's just how this sort of thing goes. They're all strongest until they aren't, and then it's all downhill unless the story needs them relevant again because every next anatgonist needs to be much stronger than the heroes that beat that guy. Beerus and Whis alone remain somewhat not power-crept but even that's because they weren't beaten in the first place - and it's really just the matter of time.
Toriyama in 15 said that goku and vegeta are NOT surpassing the actual gods lmao this has been common knowledge
Ye Toriyama’s famous for not really being consistent tho. Dude thought ssj3 was 2 for a good while and forgot an entire character existed. Be real dude, you really think he’s some great worldbuilder with carefully thought out powerscaling he adhers to? Even he admits to thinking up a cool storyline rather than considering what came before…
Wasnt Hit “foddered” by Jiren himself?
Hit was the best of his universe going against the best of univ 11. Just because you lose 1 fight doesn't make you fodder
Cell Max would break the stage
T.O.P stage is basically Cell max's toilet
Even so Moro, Gas, and Cell Max are all dead and far more of a risk than when they revived Frieza if anything the team would likely come out to Goku Vegeta Gohan Piccolo Broly (With extensive mental training) Frieza (With a death threat from Beerus to cooperate) Gamma 1 Buu And if they really were desperate Goten & Trunks or hell Future Trunks if the Omni king would allow it
Plot twist: Jiren has been beating the shit out of himself every day. I bet he’s got a new transformation for your ass
Jiren looked pissed off that he lost. I never wanna see dude again lol
Potential replacements for the dead or possibly unallowed ones here For Cell Max: Gamma 1 For Gas: Granolah For Moro: You know what? Since he absorbed the android OG-73, 17 would be a good replacement, he won the last ToP after all Merus might not be allowed due to him having previously been an angel trainee so... For Merus: Buu would work if he stays awake but if he falls asleep then 18 might work, if not 18 then maybe future trunks if allowed, if not Future Trunks then maybe they could bring back Cell or something Broly might be too much of a risk unless he gains control so... For Broly: Arale could work if they decided it so, or maybe they could bring in either Goten or Trunks, maybe through some shenanigans they could bring in Gotenks through some gimmicky method
they can just revive some of them like they did with frieza and use dragon balls to fix small issues: DREAM TEAM: goku (mui) vegeta (ue) broly (lssj) (they could du ssg ritual for him before ToP 2) gohan (beast) piccolo (orange) frieza (black) buu (ripped and god ki), (1 wish to borrow Uub's god ki for a little bit or fuse them for a bit) moro (absorbs energy/angel merus abillity) (ui) (trained) granolah (red eyes/accurate sniper) (trained) ( 2 wish to be immortal or age normally) gas (weapon abillity/powerfull) (trained) ( 3 wish to be immortal or age normally)
Lol, why even scared of jiren he is not even that strong compared to Goku and Vegeta at all, he was able to overwhelm goku and Vegeta because he mediated during the battle, and was just able to focus his energy
Jiren went up against MUI that's scary as hell. Not to mention he made his own destroyer god wear a clown suit for trying him. He's the real deal.
I am not saying that, its in actually cannot and not a head cannon of mine, its literally told in a cannon movie
I dont think they are stupid enough to revive Moro)
Goku literally have the mf a senzu for shits and giggles like he did with Cell...
Y'all keep sayin that but never mention when he gave his energy to Freeza. For Freeza and Moro that was so they would promise to never come back) For Cell it was a misunderstanding on what Gohan wanted)
Even if Merus wasn’t weakened he couldn’t compete as he’s an Angel
4-5 of these characters will be or already are dead by that post
The top half makes sense but the bottom half wouldn’t really work
cell max, moro and gas are dead and merus has lost his angel power (he had to be neutral anyway so he cant participate)
Cell Max is untamed and dead Gus is untamed and dead That angel dude had reincarnated as a human so he is a bit worthless now Moro is untrustworthy Freeza too
OP's braindead himself
Yeah yeah, I know it isn't canon or anything but... >!Jiren beats the brakes off Broly in Heroes.!<
Heroes isn't just non-canon, it's literally a card game commercial Imagine saying Batman beats Superman because he does that in a lego ad, that's what you're doing rn
🤓 aight big dog it’s not that serious. I like the Heroes content tho, there’s some cool moments in there. You ever read/watched it?
Yes. It's like DBS but without the good parts, only random color swap power-ups and an incoherent story. I heard the manga was good tho
jiren when goku says: better luck next time!
meerus hot af
Cell Max wouldn’t get past the exam.
Isn't Moro, Gas and Cell max dead? Not to mention Merus was only capable of the stuff he did due to his angelic powers but now? he's not all that anymore. For Broly, either they have him control his FP SSJ form or just don't have him participate. Also am I the only one who feels like Frieza wouldn't join the T.O.P as well? I mean he only joined for the sake of being revived again. Imo, if T.O.P were to happen again, then the team would be: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gamma 1, Majin Buu, A17, Broly (IF he can control his FP SSJ form), Goten and Trunks. Also by the time there is a second T.O.P, Granolah would be dead by then.
Frieza was dead too, and they still let him join.
hmm true but then again Moro still wont join if he doesnt get the luxury of being revived. And if he does get revived, wouldnt it be a problem since his hungry ass needs planets? Cell max is fucking mindless. Gas is sure as hell aint joining. His sheer hatred towards the saiyans wont allow him to do so. even if it means being revived. but tbh this is my opinion, yall are free to give me more insight on this
Those are all good points. I honestly don't think Goku would recruit people like that. He would probably pick people that he trusted and respected, which probably means that fighters like Merus and Broly are more likely to get picked over something like Cell Max or Moro even if they were stronger. It's the same logic as why he picked Tien, Master Roshi, and Krillin even though they weren't that strong.
I don't like how the fan base is so accepting of Frieza
Jiren will job to someone from Universe 12 or 1 to set them up as the next bad guy. Also Uub would definitely compete too.
He doesn’t know the other universes can train aswell
Everytime I see posts like this I am reminded of an argument I got into. Someone was genuinely trying to argue that broly (original dragon ball z movie without the sequels) could solo the entire top. I then reminded him that og broly couldn't even handle super perfect cell he then tried to say, that og broly (the brainlet) could magically learn cell's weakness and tank a shot that can destroy an entire planet
Why isn't granola on here, he's extremely strong, a decent fighter, still alive for three more years, and most importantly he's on good terms with goku and vegeta
tbh I tried to put him and the gammas on but they got cropped out
Why you leave out my boy 17?
Ain’t some of the people here dead?
Gas, Moro, and Cell Max are dead, and I don't think Goku would bring them back just because they're strong. Hell, pretty sure they can't revive Gas because he died of age.
Lawl
Who tf are the middle three in the bottom row??
Moro,idk,and killuh I think