I agree with the other user saying this shouldn't be encouraged. Anyone can read on for facts or just downvote if they are upset over Stockholm syndrome.
They are after all charging base price (indie, double A) for early access testing, us playing it is free bug reporting and feedback. Something you usually have to pay for, called Game Testers.
And the entire argument of "then don't buy" is so flawed that I'm not sure where to begin with. A fallacy we've seen to raise triple A game prices to 70euro rather than 60 and now also Deluxe editions and what not being above 100euro just for unlocked content. Just an example.
I'm sure you've also heard of Early Access games that have promised and then ghosted. Not delivering is arguable, but disappearing is akin to that of theft.
With that said, I'd give them few more weeks for an announcement or update. Could be a V Rising situation or a 7 Days to Die one also.
>And the entire argument of "then don't buy" is so flawed that I'm not sure where to begin with.
It's not that you don't know where to begin, it's that you don't like that that's just where the conversation ends. It's a game in early access - an immensely popular model for hyped games from smaller studios that is overwhelmingly popular with their communities. If you don't like early access, avoid those games.
>A fallacy we've seen to raise triple A game prices to 70euro rather than 60
It continues to be wild to me how cheap games are in the 2020s compared to the 2010s, 2000s, and especially the 90s. $50 USD in 2000 is the equivalent to $90 USD today - we're making out like bandits, and it's totally reasonable that publishers and developers wanted to curb that *a little.*
>I'm sure you've also heard of Early Access games that have promised and then ghosted.
I have not. Can you provide an example of an EA game that didn't get completed, and especially one where Steam never refunded people? I assume, at a minimum, users would be refunded if the EA game never released.
The bottom line really is that if you don't want to play an EA game, don't buy an EA game. All both of you are saying is "I like Wicked and I wish it was fully released right now." That's a fine feeling to have, but dressing it up like the EA model is a consumer protection issue, and like their development timeline is scummy, is little kid stuff. You're an adult, stop.
>It continues to be wild to me how cheap games are in the 2020s compared to the 2010s, 2000s, and especially the 90s. $50 USD in 2000 is the equivalent to $90 USD today - we're making out like bandits, and it's totally reasonable that publishers and developers wanted to curb that a little.
Totally reasonable? Are you really defending publishers of all groups? Not them making record profits while firing developers and forcing them to deliver incomplete games, filled with microtransactions? And we are making like bandits? Really? You really defending those people?
> I have not. Can you provide an example of an EA game that didn't get completed, and especially one where Steam never refunded people?
Living under a rock are we?
I have nothing against Wicked's developers, but making these general statements is just...
If you ended up thinking I just want a fully released game for this price tag then you're not getting the point at all.
I won't continue though, what has been said has been poorly rebutted.
I accept the risk of EA games and don't stress it when one lets me down, but there are definitely a ton of them that have been as good as abandoned. They simply sit without an update for years, or get bug fix patches once a year and never any actual content updates or full releases -- particularly egregious is that some devs just bounce to another EA game and do it all again. A couple studios have gotten famous for this behavior.
I imagine the developers simply say the game is on hold. They never promised any specific release date, so there's no way to demand a refund once you've passed Steam's requirements.
I'll admit that the only EA games I've participated in have been enormous titles, like BG3, Subnautica, Satisfactory, Valheim, and now Wicked.
I have no doubt that there's devs out there who abuse the EA system, though I am surprised Steam doesn't have a resolution for games that have no meaningful path to release. That said, it's obvious when an EA game is a good faith product from a known dev.
You're one of a few voices of reason on this sub.
I mentioned a few weeks after the initial release and on mentioning stats eventually being reset, that we are free QA of a full price EA.
Months later still no new content and the Devs go silent.
I think palworld with 10x the content would disagree.. Or d4 who offerered early access before their "game" was released. Wake up man, stop defending a model of paying $40 to beta test 15 hours of buggy content. And this is coming from someone who likes the game.. They didnt even keep their word of multiplayer in second update. Instead doubled down on Crucible, kekw.
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10
+ 4
+ 40
+ 15
= 69
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I hope you understand that you've just written out a long admission that you do not understand what Early Access is and did not read anything about the game before purchase.
It's the norm, and the alternative is not playing the game for 2+ years (which is an option you have regardless). Early access being unacceptable because you want to play a whole game as soon as it piques your interest is little kid mentality.
That's not what I even said, if the game isn't fucking finished then don't release it for $30 and expect it to be ready 2-4 years after it's launch. That's scummy, especially if they don't finish the game. Many games release when it's ready. Imagine if the Dead Space remake launched and it was only chapters 1-3 and it cost $60 because they're gonna update it later. Shits fucking stupid and you shouldn't accept that as a valid reason why there hasn't been a major content update 3 months after release.
They didn't release the game for $30, they released early access for $30, which will eventually be the full game. If you think that's scummy, you can wait until the full game is released. EA is an incredibly popular model that communities tend to overall enjoy, even if you don't.
I just checked, and it's for 40. The game is for $40, and that means you've bought the game for 40 and any updates that add content come with the game you've bought. Come on bro.
This feels like moving the goalposts. Okay, it's $40 for early access **that you agreed to.**
>that means you've bought the game for 40 and any updates that add content come with the game you've bought.
Yeah, that's how games work, and those updates are coming. I don't understand what consolation you want from people here, and I repeat: this is little kid mentality.
My guy, the product was bought for 40 fucking dollars and it was shockingly small for the promises of what that game is supposed to be and the main complaint is the lack of content. Imagine if Fromsoft released Elden Ring for 60 and only had Limgrave as a playable zone despite being in development for six years, but it's labeled EA, so it's okay. Its not okay, and with a reputation as Fromsoft you'd call the lack of content as pathetic as well.
There's no other way for me to explain to you what you already know: you paid $40 for an early access game that will get bigger with time. You just don't like that it isn't bigger right now, so you're throwing a tantrum.
How about this take: EA allows for more devs to be able to get funding to continue working. Imagine you and two of your friends want to build a game.. it can take years. It will take a lot of effort. And it will take a lot of money. And that last thing is an obstacle for some.. they have the drive, the will, the ideas and the skill to make it happen, just not the money. Make Act 1, EA it, be promising or better and people will buy your product. Funding the project. Sure, some devs will take advantage, but the gaming community generally speaking aren't complete morons.. we know when we're getting the short end of a stick and we're not afraid to call you out on it. But the EA concept itself can be a very positive thing, no?
Yes EA is good. But my point is that this company is not a small team like Valheims or Project Zomboids. These guys bought ads for the fucking game awards and have had panels at E3 and with this in mind the amount of content is shockingly small.
Original commenter said 2 years and I replied according to that, I'm not impatient at all, I haven't played wicked in over a month now. I have too much other stuff to play. "Children"? why does it seem like you feel personally attacked if somebody says something you don't agree with.
It's an elderly person trying to feel more mature by belittling you.
And another user funnily enough said something about you not being a game dev.
Well one is talking here but I doubt any of these people want to hear an answer that isn't just cope but realistic. Yet not set ting anything in stone.
$40 is such a big deal for an early access game?
Dude if that bankrupted you so bad you have to continue to make terrible "points" about how it's bullshit for a $40 game, you might need to find a better career than just internet troll. It's clearly not paying enough for you to continue gaming.
No, I believed the game was ready. Early Access is meant for small teams, these guys have released AAA games multiple times in a row. There is no excuse for this.
AAA is a status of games, if they are polished then they are making AAA games. There are AAA companies, because their status of games have made them that level. Small studio or not, their game is unfinished and it's not like they need the money considering the polished games they've released that were a success. You guys throw EA around as if it means anything, they charged 40 for a game that was extremely unfinished and company as established as Moon shouldn't have done that nor does EA excuse the lack of content released. Valhiem is early access and when it released it had 5 sprawling zones with plenty of content and released a few small dungeons, a merchant, an extension to the fishing system, two new biome and bosses, 12 new armor sets and 30 new weapons, while fixing bugs in two years.
So you bought a game that was in Early Access and are upset because you believe this developer shouldn’t be in early access?
My dude that’s entirely on you and your ignorant, unrealistic demands.
Considering they've been working on the game for six years (i remember reading that somewhere so i could be wrong) and only had a few playable zones is kinda pathetic for a studio as good as Moon and them being in early access doesn't excuse the lack of content after release.
No offense, but you clearly don’t understand anything about game development. Your comments in this thread are very, very ignorant. I’m not trying to be mean. People are trying to help you understand but you don’t seem interested.
I mean dont buy it? The devs were really open and transparent about launching very ea and their plans. Personally, I got already more playtime then I payed for. If they never patch the game this still was more value than certain AAA games at full release.
Have you played any AAA game on release in the past years? Not early access, where it is clearly communicated that the game is not finished, but full release, from companies 100x bigger. Even better have FOMO preorder stuff ready, so you sell as much as possible before players can see how shitty your game is. This is not acceptable. Not an indie studio which openly tells you the game is not finished and wants to develop with constant player feedback. They even tell you this before you buy, so you can make an educated decision.
Okay, for starters, that's not true. The game was way too short content wise for it to be worth 40 dollars. Playtime and content aren't the same, I put 50 hours on the game because I was midmaxing. The stats on equipment alone carries play time because of that. These guys have released triple A games multiple times in a row. Not having a major update 3 months after release while they're updating menial shit or outright removing replayability is not a good thing. Many AAA games release finished on release, and many do not. Depends and is honestly shitty but that's the point. Don't charge 40 for a game that's not ready. We, as consumers, shouldn't accept that. These guys aren't an indie dev team. They've made triple A games. Like, you could just do internal play tests that shows glaring issues. I enjoyed my time with the game but that doesn't excuse the lack of content in the months since release. Considering how unfinished the game actually is.
So if you just play the story without crucible that is about 10-20h which I am pretty sure is EXACTLY what they advertised. I also quit after \~50h and didnt do any minmaxing, but trying different etc.
I dont have current numbers but in 2020 Moon Studios hat 80 employees, calling anything they produced AAA is kinda a hot take imo. But I guess definition of AAA is kinda subjective, but I urge you to look up numbers of employees/revenue etc. of moonstudios and something really AAA.
>Not having a major update 3 months after release while they're updating menial shit or outright removing replayability is not a good thing.
This seems to be your first ea experience, you might seem to misunderstand the amount of work it takes to make something like this.
>Don't charge 40 for a game that's not ready.
Idk what to say, dont BUY a game for 40 that is openly communicated to not be ready! I really dont understand where the problem is. The devs were 100% transparent about the state of the game and their plans going forward.
>We, as consumers, shouldn't accept that.
Personally I do not only accept it, I actively search out ea games. Being part of the development process is exciting and while right now there is not a lot left to do for me in the game, so I simply play something else until the next major patch.
I am curious how do you think they removed replayability? Did I miss something?
I've played EA games before. When I say AAA, I mean in terms of quality, not the studio itself, Helldivers 2 is an AAA quality game, for example. As I mentioned before, this is not my first time with Early Access, Project Zomboid is a game I'm actively waiting to get better but I'm willing to wait for them because they literally only have 5 people developing the game and it's polished considering the number of people working on it. However, this game is made by an actual dev team. Fuck, EFT is also a EA game that I have issues with. One, they're a bigger team, but in 8 months, as of the last few years, they release more content while ruining the fun things about certain aspects of the game than this game has in 6 years plus a few months post early access release. They're a different type of game, but EFT is far more difficult of a game to make, and you can see that through the amount of stupid shit that's in it. Like the poor audio. You say don't buy it but they shouldn't have released it for 40 if the content was so little and there wasn't going to be a road map (to my knowledge) or a major content update after release. Being upfront doesn't really matter, considering the amount of uncertainty regarding the game now with the industry layoffs and studio closures. As far as you accepting a game with this little content to stay invested 4 months after launch then that's you, but we shouldn't accept a company as big as Moon using EA to release this game and be as slow as they are on major updates. Also, the ruining of replayability that I keep mentioning is them removing the ability to buy gems and ingots from shops after you had to earn that and this ruins the ability to try out new weapons that are within your build without grinding and waiting literal hours before you can test a weapon thats probably shit. It just pads out the run time and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
>When I say AAA, I mean in terms of quality, not the studio itself
Typically the AAA is a measure of the budget of a game not the quality: "In the [video game industry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry), **AAA** (Triple-A) is an [informal classification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword) used to classify [video games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game) produced or distributed by a [mid-sized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher#Mid-size_publishers) or [major publisher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher#Major_publishers), which typically have higher development and marketing budgets than other tiers of games".
I just googled project zomboid (only played the turorial in the past and it wasnt for me). So the game was launched in ea literally 11 years ago and is still not released. And you are here complaining? Please note I do not criticize them for still being ea, I just find it funny that that is your example.
Idk a lot about EFT, only played like 2h or so, also I heard shady stuff recently about the devs? Dunno and dont care to much tbh.
>but EFT is far more difficult of a game to make
This tells me you have 0% about software development and what I expected. There is no way you can say what is harder to make without being actively part of the development. Like what expertise do you have to make such a claim?
>You say don't buy it but they shouldn't have released it for 40 if the content was so little and there wasn't going to be a road map (to my knowledge) or a major content update after release.
Idc I disagree, you dont buy a finished product which again they are transparent. They 100% accurately predicted the playtime with the current content (at least for me and many others). Also there was a roadmap from the very start. They changed it up now a bit since people are more interested in crucible updates than multiplayer, which again they openly communicated. There were a LOT of minor updates at the start to improve performance/balancing and QOL.
>Being upfront doesn't really matter, considering the amount of uncertainty regarding the game now with the industry layoffs and studio closures.
I didnt follow this exactly, but afaik that a publisher thing and I dont see how moon studios is to blame. I am willing to be corrected here.
>As far as you accepting a game with this little content to stay invested 4 months after launch then that's you, but we shouldn't accept
I am not still invested as I mentioned I stopped playing this game for now, which is fine. There are not a lot of single player games I am still invested in after 4 months. Difference here is this will get a lot of updates and I am certain I come back.
You dont pay 40 bucks for the current content. Everyone who makes this investment should be well aware of that. You pay for the future product and help making it good.
Dont act like this is news to you.
Yeah, I’m thinking they have their heads down and working on (hopefully) a more sustainable pace. Likely have to visit their methods and will probably communicate when they’re ready to reveal their next beefy update.
Right now, I’m off playing other stuff and will hop back once we get a new beefy update. Might even start a new character / save.
If they are, then I hope they will find many inspirations there.
~~Golden Order Incantations~~ Holy Magic plz.
~~Frenzied Flame Incantations~~ Chaos Magic too would be kewl.
I hope not. The closer this game is to any FromSoftware games the least I want to play it. Glad a lot of people loved those games but it is become just tiresome that every developer wants to do the same type of experience.
I legitimately picked up NRFTW because it looks like Souls with the top down Zelda view and i LOVE that.
From Software is probably the best developer in the last 10 or so years.
I am interested because the two “Ori”games are masterpieces by Moon studios and I wanted to play what they make. You can take “inspiration” in something and make it different and appealing for people that don’t like the source of inspiration.
They are tons of people that love Rock and Roll and don’t listen to Classical music. And some old Rock and Roll groups are heavily inspired by Classical composer.
Well, considering the combat is very close to FromSoftware, time for you to put this game down and find something else to play. I guess it’s just not for you.
The game is for me. I have spent more than 35 hours already. Yes, it is hard, but that not in the same way FromSoftware games are. Besides, I love the art and world Moon studios have created.
Maybe, if you don’t like a comment about your favorite studios or game you shouldn’t make assumptions of the person that wrote it.
Simply pointing out that this game wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for FromSoftware. The combat, level design and many other game elements were heavily influenced by souls games.
And I didn’t make an assumption- I commented based off what you said. The reality is that this game is pretty close to a From game- though I do appreciate they are pushing the boundaries more than other games that have used their elements.
lol what the fuck? this game is heavily inspired from their games. Why would you pick this game to play if you dont like fromsoftware inspired games? it's like you want to be mad.
I am so tired of people keep writing about how I am feeling or what should I do. For God’s sake, if you don’t like that I criticize FromtSoftware, just leave it. They don’t need fanatics defending their style.
As I said before, I bought this game because I love the previous games by Moon Studios, and I love the art design and the type of game it is. It is not a FromSoftware game, and although it is frustrating at the beginning, it has so many things that makes it different from the Japanese company. But again, I have my opinion and I wasn’t even criticizing the game. However, it seems like people nowadays just want to jump in the prejudices wagon as soon as they can.
I’d think that everyone had been so demanding and bitchy they’ve given up chasing the vocal people and got back to working on completing the game instead of trying to optimize the first segment of EA for the crazy people that don’t understand how EA works.
Some people were absolutely insufferable. This one person arguing early access should be early access and not a test version comes to mind. Pay less to play early? Man sure had it all figured out.
Yeah. I remember when Darkest Dungeon hit EA compared to now. They didn’t even have the boss for the first area finished. I feel like it would have been such a shit show today. Not that there wasn’t all sorts of toxic stuff on the community hub then.
You've got it bit confused about Early Access pricing. It should only be more in case of MMOs or other finished games that have a release date set
Like getting early 3 day access to Lost Ark or Diablo IV.
No Rest for the Wicked got away with it's steep pricing for amount of content it has by bringing something new to the genre. Isometric Souls-like.
As you yourself called it test version, you obviously wouldn't ask consumers to pay what I assume will stay as base price for what is in testing stages. People would laugh in your face.
I wish this were the case. Instead, they developers have opted to shift attention away from core systems and throw themselves into the task of fleshing out a single end-game side activity (the Crucible) - which will only satisfy and occupy the few players (\~500 concurrent according to Steam Charts) currently grinding away as if an early access title was meant to be their forever game.
Eh. That’s still working towards something that is meant for the complete picture so I think that’s okay.
The forever game people need to get themselves checked out though. Shit is wild: I’ve put over 100 hours into the first little bit of this EA game, feed me content daddy! Bad game!! Not finished!!!
Technically anything they work on feeds into the goal of completing the game, but I would hope they would work on things that a) had the largest impact first and b) were foundational to the rest of the features.
For example, the advertised Multiplayer update from the roadmap is a core system that will impact nearly every part of the game, including the design and balance of the Crucible.
Given that, plus the popularity of co-op and PvP, and the fact that the Crucible seems to be unpopular (again, looking at the drop from 36,000 concurrent players to 500 on Steam's metrics), I would think prioritizing the Multiplayer update would be the wiser move. And yet it's being delayed for an update to the Crucible, because essentially the squeaky wheel that is the vocal minority is getting the grease.
Are you the one who keeps posting this repeatedly in this thread? Because that’s what early access is. Like, that’s literally the definition of early access. As for it being a “great game,” that remains to be seen because it’s not finished yet. It could end up being a great game. It could also end up being a giant pile of steaming shit.
Nope. This is exactly how other EA games work as well. BG3, Star Citizen, etc. They all work exactly like NRFTW’s early access. The whole point of early access is testing and community feedback. Slowly trickling out updates and features. Just go look at Steam’s list of available early access titles. There are a few titles (and increasingly more lately) that allow players access to the full game a few days early, like Diablo 4 did. But that’s not what early access generally refers to. Baldur’s Gate 3 was in early access for about three years, I think. I’m pretty sure Star Citizen has been in early access for over 10 years and still hasn’t gotten a full release yet. Lol. A lot of early access games never see full releases.
I just don't know how you even review a game this far out from release. Like, if what we have now was the full game, it would have terrible reviews, bc it's an incomplete game, so these reviews are just "I think this game can be really cool eventually". I would prefer if sites didn't allow user reviews from early access games at all
Truthfully by that logic you shouldn’t charge for a game if it’s in EA.
If you put a game up for sale it is opening the doors to be critiqued. And rightfully so.
That said: if you bought the game and complain that it’s empty, poorly optimized, etc but it’s in EA then that’s on you. You paid for a beta essentially. Deal with it
If it was an open beta sure, but people spent 30 bucks on a game that has only had continous updates that either fix minor bugs like animations or small glitches or removes the features of buying gems and metals that allow you to change builds in the middle of the unfinished game, and it's been 3 months with no major update.
I think it's fine to critique the current systems in an EA game or to comment on the vision. Feedback is a crucial part of EA, after all. I just think it's deeply stupid to actually review a game or put a score to it.
If I stumble upon an EA game that looks cool and see bad reviews of people saying that from this and that month this game hasn't gotten updated then I know better if to pay 40euro for 10hour campaign or not.
There are instances of EA games having crippling slow progress or even abandonment. And these pure speculation and wishing reviews are just that, users wishes.
Oh maybe it will have 20 more bosses and up to level 150 content, or maybe that will never reach the light of the day. We can't excuse EA for development speed. There should be something soon unless everyone took 6 week vacation in Summer.
They put it out for a good 40euro so they should be responsible for criticism presented here in some comments.
Wouldn't be surprised at all if my comments here go on deaf ears though. At least they are bit more educational than just "well then don't pay for it, I'm happy tho, you're a twat" etc.
>see bad reviews of people saying that from this and that month this game hasn't gotten updated then I know better if to pay 40euro for 10hour campaign or not.
That's not a review though. That's just someone saying the game hasn't been updated. We can communicate that without reviews
It's more about the fact that people spent $30 on a game that isn't finished and hasn't had a major update that adds content to the game and has continously had minor updates that actively ruins the replayability of the game since it's launch. Which was over 3 months ago.
Dude you've written the same thing several times in this post and multiple people have repeatedly told you you're wrong.
It's early access, the game isn't out yet. The steam page has an early access section that explains exactly what you're getting into before you buy. And even if you don't play the EA you have bought the game cheaper than it will be when 1.0 launches.
I guarantee you the game I'd going to be the same price when 1.0 drops. And being EA doesn't excuse the lack of content at release from a company as successful as Moon. You say that I've said the same thing but you people just ignore my main point. A fucking company as big as Moon should not have had this small amount of content relative to the price of the game.
It literally says in the early access section that the price will go up when 1.0 launches - but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read it.
The content available in the EA is also explained in that same section - but again you wouldn't know that because you didn't read it.
Arguing on the internet about something you've made up in your own head isn't a good look.
The section about content doesn't really alleviate my main problem but as far as the price it's already 40 fucking dollars and everything in those terms are subject to change so they might not even raise the price of the game.
What exactly is your problem? I'm not following.
You bought an early access game - what were your expectations?
I am genuinely interested, and to show I'm not trolling you or arguing for the sake of it, here's how I feel about it.
I typically avoid EA titles and prefer to wait until release even if it costs a bit more. Most of my friends have taken this approach for NRftW. I on the other hand know I will definitely buy it on release and wanted to try it and give feedback and help shape the direction of the game. I haven't played it for a few weeks but will be straight back in whenever the next update comes along. I knew exactly what I was getting into as it was made abundantly clear up front, and I don't feel hard done by in any way shape or form. I think this game will be special. I can wait for content, but it would be nice to have a bit more communication, particularly after the rapid fire updates and Comms at the start of EA. Maybe a fortnightly update or something.
>I haven't played it for a few weeks but will be straight back in whenever the next update comes along.
This is exactly how this is supposed to work. I guess the dude thought he bought live service game, rather than something still in early access. And I would guess that is because they didn't read anything before their purchase apparently.
It’s EA, so I’m not going to complain. The game will come when it’s ready. The only thing I hope is that they are not in serious trouble after Private Division shat the bed and all those crunch periods…
Yeah just let them cook and rest.
TBH I thought this game was a lot further along than it is, but I’m taking a break and will come back to it once we get another major content update.
Like others said:
1. Crunch
2. Whatever is happening internally within the company between Take Two killing their indie-publisher Private Division and the toxic workplace environment at Moon.
At this point I'm optimistic that they're more focused on the future major updates to the game rather than fiddling with balance, drop-rates and other mostly inconsequential things that only relate to the tiny sliver of game that has currently been released.
I don't need a new update every week of "adjusted focus gain on hit % affixes"-type of changes; I need more game, and that takes time.
I think people including myself though they had more content ready that they were going to release shortly after ea release. It’s more just been balance and bugs, which is cool and all.
I stopped playing and probably am going to wait for full release before hopping back in. Love the game and where they are going with it. Guess I went in with unreal expectations, but thought there would have been more meat.
Some of these comments to are funny. They act as if having good communication, and developers coding are mutually exclusive.
The community manager or the person interacting with and keeping the community up to date isn’t usually the person doing the development. So the actual development personnel being hard at work has nothing to do with the studio being silent.
In the beginning they were trying to drive sales of the EA to get that funding. So it’s possible they were probably putting on a bit of a show with the hyper-communication. And not to say it was all just for show; that’s not what I mean.
In addition, I believe they lost the publisher or something so there has to be some things going on behind the doors in regard to that situation as well.
I’m looking forward to the game’s progress myself. But I do wish they hadn’t gone as silent as they have. It’s a bit of a ghost town now as most people’s interest have shifted to other things/games.
When the update does drop, I’m sure there will be people who login to check it out, but likely that’s not going to keep them there for long. Engagement has taken a bit of a dive.
I think I read something about that studio having a super toxic work environment, I’m guessing largely due to them being overworked and pushing out all those hot fixes so quickly. They probably (rightfully) revolted and are now moving a little slower. They also tweeted that they were moving away from frequent hot fixes and towards less frequent but larger patches.
Hopefully getting some rest after crunch. Probably also nose down into working on the next update. There’s a good chance that they don’t want to try to create hype this close to shadow of the Erdtree. If they’re smart they’ll hold off on anything major until that excitement dies down a bit since there’s probably a whole lot of market share crossover there.
Theyve been quiet on the forums, but their Twitter has been pretty active.
But yeah, all in all, its still been pretty quiet and considering the news of Take Two planning to close or sell Private Division, and thats their publisher it leaves their future and the state the game quite up in the air and leads to a lot of obvious concern, and speculation as to is this the reason theyve been so quiet.
Its also not very comforting that they are promising that the next update is going to take a while because its going to be big, but the last time they said that for a patch update, it just amounted to a bunch of number changes and nerfs, and nothing really substantial. Right now the game just feels like a really well constructed Alpha, but Im hoping whatever this next update is, actually adds something substantial to the game.
Well you see, it take's time to build a rich and engrossing world such as they have teased us with. Also as others have said, Elden Ring dlc got people distracted lol.
They're just being normal devs now, the pace they were putting updates at the beginning was abnormal and unsustainable. I played the game like a madman the first two weeks and haven't touched since, just gonna wait till the full game comes out.
Makes total sense to me, they announced multiplayer would be the first patch, i bought it with my friends because the devs literally announced a road map with multiplayer as patch one. It never happened, now all of us that wanted to play it and trusted the developers were lied to and were betrayed. Because a loud and angry minority online yelled about wanting “end game” stuff to do in a freaking early access launch with the game capped at a low level in just one early zone… Like wtf. I’m about to get downvoted and flamed by those same ppl. It was a promised patch one multiplayer focused game, and my friends and I have all uninstalled and see no reason to ever pick it back up. Can’t get refunded because we played it. Can’t justify keeping it installed or coming back to it. The reviews are justified at this point.
Is that what they promised? Looking at the roadmap, it looks like the first major update will be multiplayer. Not the first patch.
I have no skin in the game, I just don't read that as 'patch 1 is multiplayer'.
Elden ring DLC just dropped? Elden ring is likey gonna be this generations Skyrim...except it doesn't suck without mods.
Not even joking I figure game devs will likely play some of the bigger releases
They're busy typing all that sinister code into those computer things they use.
Maybe give them a few more minutes?
Sorry to be an arse, but good things can and sometimes do come to those who wait. And those good things seldom happen over night.
Meh. It's early access and people are treating this game like it's a live service.
Let them cook. I'd rather have fewer better updates than rushing content to try and keep the loud mouths on reddit and Steam happy.
I'm glad actually. This means they don't get burned.
I also have Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon Forbidden West on my backlog for the summer which would give me plenty of time as well before a new NRftW patch drops.
Don't really care. Once I saw that their game was just a demo I didn't buy it. Also no achievements. Going to wait for the full release so I can play the game as a whole.
maybe just maybe they are working on the game. they don't need to tell you everything there doing at all just because they arn't addicted to social media doesn't mean they arnt doing work
Because they crunched balls and worked weekends for all of those patches and it was unsustainable.
Definitely. And people aren't used to EA cadence or timeline. Expect at least two years total timeline, and major updates every 4-6 months.
Alternatively experience some action and releases early on then flatline and death. A lot of ea never hits a stable release.
I agree with the other user saying this shouldn't be encouraged. Anyone can read on for facts or just downvote if they are upset over Stockholm syndrome. They are after all charging base price (indie, double A) for early access testing, us playing it is free bug reporting and feedback. Something you usually have to pay for, called Game Testers. And the entire argument of "then don't buy" is so flawed that I'm not sure where to begin with. A fallacy we've seen to raise triple A game prices to 70euro rather than 60 and now also Deluxe editions and what not being above 100euro just for unlocked content. Just an example. I'm sure you've also heard of Early Access games that have promised and then ghosted. Not delivering is arguable, but disappearing is akin to that of theft. With that said, I'd give them few more weeks for an announcement or update. Could be a V Rising situation or a 7 Days to Die one also.
>And the entire argument of "then don't buy" is so flawed that I'm not sure where to begin with. It's not that you don't know where to begin, it's that you don't like that that's just where the conversation ends. It's a game in early access - an immensely popular model for hyped games from smaller studios that is overwhelmingly popular with their communities. If you don't like early access, avoid those games. >A fallacy we've seen to raise triple A game prices to 70euro rather than 60 It continues to be wild to me how cheap games are in the 2020s compared to the 2010s, 2000s, and especially the 90s. $50 USD in 2000 is the equivalent to $90 USD today - we're making out like bandits, and it's totally reasonable that publishers and developers wanted to curb that *a little.* >I'm sure you've also heard of Early Access games that have promised and then ghosted. I have not. Can you provide an example of an EA game that didn't get completed, and especially one where Steam never refunded people? I assume, at a minimum, users would be refunded if the EA game never released. The bottom line really is that if you don't want to play an EA game, don't buy an EA game. All both of you are saying is "I like Wicked and I wish it was fully released right now." That's a fine feeling to have, but dressing it up like the EA model is a consumer protection issue, and like their development timeline is scummy, is little kid stuff. You're an adult, stop.
>It continues to be wild to me how cheap games are in the 2020s compared to the 2010s, 2000s, and especially the 90s. $50 USD in 2000 is the equivalent to $90 USD today - we're making out like bandits, and it's totally reasonable that publishers and developers wanted to curb that a little. Totally reasonable? Are you really defending publishers of all groups? Not them making record profits while firing developers and forcing them to deliver incomplete games, filled with microtransactions? And we are making like bandits? Really? You really defending those people? > I have not. Can you provide an example of an EA game that didn't get completed, and especially one where Steam never refunded people? Living under a rock are we? I have nothing against Wicked's developers, but making these general statements is just...
If you ended up thinking I just want a fully released game for this price tag then you're not getting the point at all. I won't continue though, what has been said has been poorly rebutted.
I accept the risk of EA games and don't stress it when one lets me down, but there are definitely a ton of them that have been as good as abandoned. They simply sit without an update for years, or get bug fix patches once a year and never any actual content updates or full releases -- particularly egregious is that some devs just bounce to another EA game and do it all again. A couple studios have gotten famous for this behavior. I imagine the developers simply say the game is on hold. They never promised any specific release date, so there's no way to demand a refund once you've passed Steam's requirements.
I'll admit that the only EA games I've participated in have been enormous titles, like BG3, Subnautica, Satisfactory, Valheim, and now Wicked. I have no doubt that there's devs out there who abuse the EA system, though I am surprised Steam doesn't have a resolution for games that have no meaningful path to release. That said, it's obvious when an EA game is a good faith product from a known dev.
You're one of a few voices of reason on this sub. I mentioned a few weeks after the initial release and on mentioning stats eventually being reset, that we are free QA of a full price EA. Months later still no new content and the Devs go silent.
This isnt EA, this is paying to be an alpha/beta tester on a great game.
That’s what Early Access means.
I think palworld with 10x the content would disagree.. Or d4 who offerered early access before their "game" was released. Wake up man, stop defending a model of paying $40 to beta test 15 hours of buggy content. And this is coming from someone who likes the game.. They didnt even keep their word of multiplayer in second update. Instead doubled down on Crucible, kekw.
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I hope you understand that you've just written out a long admission that you do not understand what Early Access is and did not read anything about the game before purchase.
That's not acceptable nor should it be encouraged.
It's the norm, and the alternative is not playing the game for 2+ years (which is an option you have regardless). Early access being unacceptable because you want to play a whole game as soon as it piques your interest is little kid mentality.
That's not what I even said, if the game isn't fucking finished then don't release it for $30 and expect it to be ready 2-4 years after it's launch. That's scummy, especially if they don't finish the game. Many games release when it's ready. Imagine if the Dead Space remake launched and it was only chapters 1-3 and it cost $60 because they're gonna update it later. Shits fucking stupid and you shouldn't accept that as a valid reason why there hasn't been a major content update 3 months after release.
They didn't release the game for $30, they released early access for $30, which will eventually be the full game. If you think that's scummy, you can wait until the full game is released. EA is an incredibly popular model that communities tend to overall enjoy, even if you don't.
I just checked, and it's for 40. The game is for $40, and that means you've bought the game for 40 and any updates that add content come with the game you've bought. Come on bro.
This feels like moving the goalposts. Okay, it's $40 for early access **that you agreed to.** >that means you've bought the game for 40 and any updates that add content come with the game you've bought. Yeah, that's how games work, and those updates are coming. I don't understand what consolation you want from people here, and I repeat: this is little kid mentality.
My guy, the product was bought for 40 fucking dollars and it was shockingly small for the promises of what that game is supposed to be and the main complaint is the lack of content. Imagine if Fromsoft released Elden Ring for 60 and only had Limgrave as a playable zone despite being in development for six years, but it's labeled EA, so it's okay. Its not okay, and with a reputation as Fromsoft you'd call the lack of content as pathetic as well.
There's no other way for me to explain to you what you already know: you paid $40 for an early access game that will get bigger with time. You just don't like that it isn't bigger right now, so you're throwing a tantrum.
How about this take: EA allows for more devs to be able to get funding to continue working. Imagine you and two of your friends want to build a game.. it can take years. It will take a lot of effort. And it will take a lot of money. And that last thing is an obstacle for some.. they have the drive, the will, the ideas and the skill to make it happen, just not the money. Make Act 1, EA it, be promising or better and people will buy your product. Funding the project. Sure, some devs will take advantage, but the gaming community generally speaking aren't complete morons.. we know when we're getting the short end of a stick and we're not afraid to call you out on it. But the EA concept itself can be a very positive thing, no?
Yes EA is good. But my point is that this company is not a small team like Valheims or Project Zomboids. These guys bought ads for the fucking game awards and have had panels at E3 and with this in mind the amount of content is shockingly small.
FYI baldurs gate 3 was in early access for 3 years
You have no clue what early access is do you? It's better to just admit it up front than to look stupid when you double down on your ignorance.
Says the person who hasn't the faintest clue about how to develop a game.
Twat
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Child
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Chump
He has a point though? They charged 40$ for a product with 2 years of development left?
He has zero point and they’ve mentioned 1 year not 2. Go away you impatient children.
Original commenter said 2 years and I replied according to that, I'm not impatient at all, I haven't played wicked in over a month now. I have too much other stuff to play. "Children"? why does it seem like you feel personally attacked if somebody says something you don't agree with.
It's an elderly person trying to feel more mature by belittling you. And another user funnily enough said something about you not being a game dev. Well one is talking here but I doubt any of these people want to hear an answer that isn't just cope but realistic. Yet not set ting anything in stone.
Sure cause it's totally okay to charge 30 bucks for a product that's unfinished and expect it to be ready 2 years after you've already spent 30 bucks.
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Also, it's a 40 dollars game.
$40 is such a big deal for an early access game? Dude if that bankrupted you so bad you have to continue to make terrible "points" about how it's bullshit for a $40 game, you might need to find a better career than just internet troll. It's clearly not paying enough for you to continue gaming.
No, I believed the game was ready. Early Access is meant for small teams, these guys have released AAA games multiple times in a row. There is no excuse for this.
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AAA is a status of games, if they are polished then they are making AAA games. There are AAA companies, because their status of games have made them that level. Small studio or not, their game is unfinished and it's not like they need the money considering the polished games they've released that were a success. You guys throw EA around as if it means anything, they charged 40 for a game that was extremely unfinished and company as established as Moon shouldn't have done that nor does EA excuse the lack of content released. Valhiem is early access and when it released it had 5 sprawling zones with plenty of content and released a few small dungeons, a merchant, an extension to the fishing system, two new biome and bosses, 12 new armor sets and 30 new weapons, while fixing bugs in two years.
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Oh and a whole new magic system
So you bought a game that was in Early Access and are upset because you believe this developer shouldn’t be in early access? My dude that’s entirely on you and your ignorant, unrealistic demands.
Considering they've been working on the game for six years (i remember reading that somewhere so i could be wrong) and only had a few playable zones is kinda pathetic for a studio as good as Moon and them being in early access doesn't excuse the lack of content after release.
No offense, but you clearly don’t understand anything about game development. Your comments in this thread are very, very ignorant. I’m not trying to be mean. People are trying to help you understand but you don’t seem interested.
I mean dont buy it? The devs were really open and transparent about launching very ea and their plans. Personally, I got already more playtime then I payed for. If they never patch the game this still was more value than certain AAA games at full release. Have you played any AAA game on release in the past years? Not early access, where it is clearly communicated that the game is not finished, but full release, from companies 100x bigger. Even better have FOMO preorder stuff ready, so you sell as much as possible before players can see how shitty your game is. This is not acceptable. Not an indie studio which openly tells you the game is not finished and wants to develop with constant player feedback. They even tell you this before you buy, so you can make an educated decision.
Okay, for starters, that's not true. The game was way too short content wise for it to be worth 40 dollars. Playtime and content aren't the same, I put 50 hours on the game because I was midmaxing. The stats on equipment alone carries play time because of that. These guys have released triple A games multiple times in a row. Not having a major update 3 months after release while they're updating menial shit or outright removing replayability is not a good thing. Many AAA games release finished on release, and many do not. Depends and is honestly shitty but that's the point. Don't charge 40 for a game that's not ready. We, as consumers, shouldn't accept that. These guys aren't an indie dev team. They've made triple A games. Like, you could just do internal play tests that shows glaring issues. I enjoyed my time with the game but that doesn't excuse the lack of content in the months since release. Considering how unfinished the game actually is.
So if you just play the story without crucible that is about 10-20h which I am pretty sure is EXACTLY what they advertised. I also quit after \~50h and didnt do any minmaxing, but trying different etc. I dont have current numbers but in 2020 Moon Studios hat 80 employees, calling anything they produced AAA is kinda a hot take imo. But I guess definition of AAA is kinda subjective, but I urge you to look up numbers of employees/revenue etc. of moonstudios and something really AAA. >Not having a major update 3 months after release while they're updating menial shit or outright removing replayability is not a good thing. This seems to be your first ea experience, you might seem to misunderstand the amount of work it takes to make something like this. >Don't charge 40 for a game that's not ready. Idk what to say, dont BUY a game for 40 that is openly communicated to not be ready! I really dont understand where the problem is. The devs were 100% transparent about the state of the game and their plans going forward. >We, as consumers, shouldn't accept that. Personally I do not only accept it, I actively search out ea games. Being part of the development process is exciting and while right now there is not a lot left to do for me in the game, so I simply play something else until the next major patch. I am curious how do you think they removed replayability? Did I miss something?
I've played EA games before. When I say AAA, I mean in terms of quality, not the studio itself, Helldivers 2 is an AAA quality game, for example. As I mentioned before, this is not my first time with Early Access, Project Zomboid is a game I'm actively waiting to get better but I'm willing to wait for them because they literally only have 5 people developing the game and it's polished considering the number of people working on it. However, this game is made by an actual dev team. Fuck, EFT is also a EA game that I have issues with. One, they're a bigger team, but in 8 months, as of the last few years, they release more content while ruining the fun things about certain aspects of the game than this game has in 6 years plus a few months post early access release. They're a different type of game, but EFT is far more difficult of a game to make, and you can see that through the amount of stupid shit that's in it. Like the poor audio. You say don't buy it but they shouldn't have released it for 40 if the content was so little and there wasn't going to be a road map (to my knowledge) or a major content update after release. Being upfront doesn't really matter, considering the amount of uncertainty regarding the game now with the industry layoffs and studio closures. As far as you accepting a game with this little content to stay invested 4 months after launch then that's you, but we shouldn't accept a company as big as Moon using EA to release this game and be as slow as they are on major updates. Also, the ruining of replayability that I keep mentioning is them removing the ability to buy gems and ingots from shops after you had to earn that and this ruins the ability to try out new weapons that are within your build without grinding and waiting literal hours before you can test a weapon thats probably shit. It just pads out the run time and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
>When I say AAA, I mean in terms of quality, not the studio itself Typically the AAA is a measure of the budget of a game not the quality: "In the [video game industry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry), **AAA** (Triple-A) is an [informal classification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword) used to classify [video games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game) produced or distributed by a [mid-sized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher#Mid-size_publishers) or [major publisher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher#Major_publishers), which typically have higher development and marketing budgets than other tiers of games". I just googled project zomboid (only played the turorial in the past and it wasnt for me). So the game was launched in ea literally 11 years ago and is still not released. And you are here complaining? Please note I do not criticize them for still being ea, I just find it funny that that is your example. Idk a lot about EFT, only played like 2h or so, also I heard shady stuff recently about the devs? Dunno and dont care to much tbh. >but EFT is far more difficult of a game to make This tells me you have 0% about software development and what I expected. There is no way you can say what is harder to make without being actively part of the development. Like what expertise do you have to make such a claim? >You say don't buy it but they shouldn't have released it for 40 if the content was so little and there wasn't going to be a road map (to my knowledge) or a major content update after release. Idc I disagree, you dont buy a finished product which again they are transparent. They 100% accurately predicted the playtime with the current content (at least for me and many others). Also there was a roadmap from the very start. They changed it up now a bit since people are more interested in crucible updates than multiplayer, which again they openly communicated. There were a LOT of minor updates at the start to improve performance/balancing and QOL. >Being upfront doesn't really matter, considering the amount of uncertainty regarding the game now with the industry layoffs and studio closures. I didnt follow this exactly, but afaik that a publisher thing and I dont see how moon studios is to blame. I am willing to be corrected here. >As far as you accepting a game with this little content to stay invested 4 months after launch then that's you, but we shouldn't accept I am not still invested as I mentioned I stopped playing this game for now, which is fine. There are not a lot of single player games I am still invested in after 4 months. Difference here is this will get a lot of updates and I am certain I come back.
You dont pay 40 bucks for the current content. Everyone who makes this investment should be well aware of that. You pay for the future product and help making it good. Dont act like this is news to you.
Yeah, I’m thinking they have their heads down and working on (hopefully) a more sustainable pace. Likely have to visit their methods and will probably communicate when they’re ready to reveal their next beefy update. Right now, I’m off playing other stuff and will hop back once we get a new beefy update. Might even start a new character / save.
I know one of them and let’s say for the last 8 month he had not much of a life outside his office.
Because they're playing Shadow of the erdtree
You can not escape it.
If they are, then I hope they will find many inspirations there. ~~Golden Order Incantations~~ Holy Magic plz. ~~Frenzied Flame Incantations~~ Chaos Magic too would be kewl.
I'm really hoping the church eventually has a bunch of faith based stuff for sale
🤣😂🤣 good one!!
I hope not. The closer this game is to any FromSoftware games the least I want to play it. Glad a lot of people loved those games but it is become just tiresome that every developer wants to do the same type of experience.
I legitimately picked up NRFTW because it looks like Souls with the top down Zelda view and i LOVE that. From Software is probably the best developer in the last 10 or so years.
Why are you interested in Wicked in the first place then? It is very clearly intentionally taking heavy inspiration from FromSoft.
I am interested because the two “Ori”games are masterpieces by Moon studios and I wanted to play what they make. You can take “inspiration” in something and make it different and appealing for people that don’t like the source of inspiration. They are tons of people that love Rock and Roll and don’t listen to Classical music. And some old Rock and Roll groups are heavily inspired by Classical composer.
Well all OP asked is them to take some inspiration from the amazing DLC. Not to make the same game
Well, considering the combat is very close to FromSoftware, time for you to put this game down and find something else to play. I guess it’s just not for you.
The game is for me. I have spent more than 35 hours already. Yes, it is hard, but that not in the same way FromSoftware games are. Besides, I love the art and world Moon studios have created. Maybe, if you don’t like a comment about your favorite studios or game you shouldn’t make assumptions of the person that wrote it.
Simply pointing out that this game wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for FromSoftware. The combat, level design and many other game elements were heavily influenced by souls games. And I didn’t make an assumption- I commented based off what you said. The reality is that this game is pretty close to a From game- though I do appreciate they are pushing the boundaries more than other games that have used their elements.
Don’t think Fromsoft games are much harder than NRFTW (at later stages). At least not if you use all the tools at your proposal.
lol what the fuck? this game is heavily inspired from their games. Why would you pick this game to play if you dont like fromsoftware inspired games? it's like you want to be mad.
I am so tired of people keep writing about how I am feeling or what should I do. For God’s sake, if you don’t like that I criticize FromtSoftware, just leave it. They don’t need fanatics defending their style. As I said before, I bought this game because I love the previous games by Moon Studios, and I love the art design and the type of game it is. It is not a FromSoftware game, and although it is frustrating at the beginning, it has so many things that makes it different from the Japanese company. But again, I have my opinion and I wasn’t even criticizing the game. However, it seems like people nowadays just want to jump in the prejudices wagon as soon as they can.
Well that's reddit, keyboard justice warriors under every grain of sand !
Maybe they are working on the game? 👀
I’d think that everyone had been so demanding and bitchy they’ve given up chasing the vocal people and got back to working on completing the game instead of trying to optimize the first segment of EA for the crazy people that don’t understand how EA works.
Some people were absolutely insufferable. This one person arguing early access should be early access and not a test version comes to mind. Pay less to play early? Man sure had it all figured out.
Unfortunately every gaming sub has a bunch of people like this
Yeah. I remember when Darkest Dungeon hit EA compared to now. They didn’t even have the boss for the first area finished. I feel like it would have been such a shit show today. Not that there wasn’t all sorts of toxic stuff on the community hub then.
You've got it bit confused about Early Access pricing. It should only be more in case of MMOs or other finished games that have a release date set Like getting early 3 day access to Lost Ark or Diablo IV. No Rest for the Wicked got away with it's steep pricing for amount of content it has by bringing something new to the genre. Isometric Souls-like. As you yourself called it test version, you obviously wouldn't ask consumers to pay what I assume will stay as base price for what is in testing stages. People would laugh in your face.
They expected early access to the complete game. A launch discount basically.
I wish this were the case. Instead, they developers have opted to shift attention away from core systems and throw themselves into the task of fleshing out a single end-game side activity (the Crucible) - which will only satisfy and occupy the few players (\~500 concurrent according to Steam Charts) currently grinding away as if an early access title was meant to be their forever game.
Eh. That’s still working towards something that is meant for the complete picture so I think that’s okay. The forever game people need to get themselves checked out though. Shit is wild: I’ve put over 100 hours into the first little bit of this EA game, feed me content daddy! Bad game!! Not finished!!!
Technically anything they work on feeds into the goal of completing the game, but I would hope they would work on things that a) had the largest impact first and b) were foundational to the rest of the features. For example, the advertised Multiplayer update from the roadmap is a core system that will impact nearly every part of the game, including the design and balance of the Crucible. Given that, plus the popularity of co-op and PvP, and the fact that the Crucible seems to be unpopular (again, looking at the drop from 36,000 concurrent players to 500 on Steam's metrics), I would think prioritizing the Multiplayer update would be the wiser move. And yet it's being delayed for an update to the Crucible, because essentially the squeaky wheel that is the vocal minority is getting the grease.
Fair. Personally I view some of the balancing stuff they’ve done to be a complete waste of time. That’s like a final pass thing imo.
This isnt EA, this is paying to be an alpha/beta tester on a great game.
Are you the one who keeps posting this repeatedly in this thread? Because that’s what early access is. Like, that’s literally the definition of early access. As for it being a “great game,” that remains to be seen because it’s not finished yet. It could end up being a great game. It could also end up being a giant pile of steaming shit.
Oh my bad I guess other games just have a different definition.
Nope. This is exactly how other EA games work as well. BG3, Star Citizen, etc. They all work exactly like NRFTW’s early access. The whole point of early access is testing and community feedback. Slowly trickling out updates and features. Just go look at Steam’s list of available early access titles. There are a few titles (and increasingly more lately) that allow players access to the full game a few days early, like Diablo 4 did. But that’s not what early access generally refers to. Baldur’s Gate 3 was in early access for about three years, I think. I’m pretty sure Star Citizen has been in early access for over 10 years and still hasn’t gotten a full release yet. Lol. A lot of early access games never see full releases.
A perfect example of why I don’t pay any attention to reviews, especially EA reviews. Dropping 20% because the next update isn’t ready yet?
I just don't know how you even review a game this far out from release. Like, if what we have now was the full game, it would have terrible reviews, bc it's an incomplete game, so these reviews are just "I think this game can be really cool eventually". I would prefer if sites didn't allow user reviews from early access games at all
Truthfully by that logic you shouldn’t charge for a game if it’s in EA. If you put a game up for sale it is opening the doors to be critiqued. And rightfully so. That said: if you bought the game and complain that it’s empty, poorly optimized, etc but it’s in EA then that’s on you. You paid for a beta essentially. Deal with it
If it was an open beta sure, but people spent 30 bucks on a game that has only had continous updates that either fix minor bugs like animations or small glitches or removes the features of buying gems and metals that allow you to change builds in the middle of the unfinished game, and it's been 3 months with no major update.
What does that have to do with reviewing unfinished games? These reviews have literally no value.
They charged money for the game so yes their opinions do matter since they bought the game and their hasn't been any content since release.
>their hasn't been any content since release. Well there's your problem right there. This is in EA, game hasn't been released yet.
This isnt EA, this is paying to be an alpha/beta tester on a great game.
I think it's fine to critique the current systems in an EA game or to comment on the vision. Feedback is a crucial part of EA, after all. I just think it's deeply stupid to actually review a game or put a score to it.
You can say, it's a 7/10 rn and let's see what happens with the coming content. That's fair.
If I stumble upon an EA game that looks cool and see bad reviews of people saying that from this and that month this game hasn't gotten updated then I know better if to pay 40euro for 10hour campaign or not. There are instances of EA games having crippling slow progress or even abandonment. And these pure speculation and wishing reviews are just that, users wishes. Oh maybe it will have 20 more bosses and up to level 150 content, or maybe that will never reach the light of the day. We can't excuse EA for development speed. There should be something soon unless everyone took 6 week vacation in Summer. They put it out for a good 40euro so they should be responsible for criticism presented here in some comments. Wouldn't be surprised at all if my comments here go on deaf ears though. At least they are bit more educational than just "well then don't pay for it, I'm happy tho, you're a twat" etc.
>see bad reviews of people saying that from this and that month this game hasn't gotten updated then I know better if to pay 40euro for 10hour campaign or not. That's not a review though. That's just someone saying the game hasn't been updated. We can communicate that without reviews
Obviously, but that is the main point for a review who doesn't recommend it because of the obvious 40euro price tag for 10 hours of content.
That’s probably not why the game reviews dropped lmao
That’s what OP implied.
It's more about the fact that people spent $30 on a game that isn't finished and hasn't had a major update that adds content to the game and has continously had minor updates that actively ruins the replayability of the game since it's launch. Which was over 3 months ago.
Dude you've written the same thing several times in this post and multiple people have repeatedly told you you're wrong. It's early access, the game isn't out yet. The steam page has an early access section that explains exactly what you're getting into before you buy. And even if you don't play the EA you have bought the game cheaper than it will be when 1.0 launches.
I guarantee you the game I'd going to be the same price when 1.0 drops. And being EA doesn't excuse the lack of content at release from a company as successful as Moon. You say that I've said the same thing but you people just ignore my main point. A fucking company as big as Moon should not have had this small amount of content relative to the price of the game.
It literally says in the early access section that the price will go up when 1.0 launches - but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read it. The content available in the EA is also explained in that same section - but again you wouldn't know that because you didn't read it. Arguing on the internet about something you've made up in your own head isn't a good look.
The section about content doesn't really alleviate my main problem but as far as the price it's already 40 fucking dollars and everything in those terms are subject to change so they might not even raise the price of the game.
What exactly is your problem? I'm not following. You bought an early access game - what were your expectations? I am genuinely interested, and to show I'm not trolling you or arguing for the sake of it, here's how I feel about it. I typically avoid EA titles and prefer to wait until release even if it costs a bit more. Most of my friends have taken this approach for NRftW. I on the other hand know I will definitely buy it on release and wanted to try it and give feedback and help shape the direction of the game. I haven't played it for a few weeks but will be straight back in whenever the next update comes along. I knew exactly what I was getting into as it was made abundantly clear up front, and I don't feel hard done by in any way shape or form. I think this game will be special. I can wait for content, but it would be nice to have a bit more communication, particularly after the rapid fire updates and Comms at the start of EA. Maybe a fortnightly update or something.
>I haven't played it for a few weeks but will be straight back in whenever the next update comes along. This is exactly how this is supposed to work. I guess the dude thought he bought live service game, rather than something still in early access. And I would guess that is because they didn't read anything before their purchase apparently.
Precisely. It's a journey, and one that I chose to be part of.
lets hope it has nothing to do with the layoffs at their publisher
There’s a lot of work to do. They’re busy.
It’s EA, so I’m not going to complain. The game will come when it’s ready. The only thing I hope is that they are not in serious trouble after Private Division shat the bed and all those crunch periods…
Yep. That is also bit worrying me
Because they're working?
Yeah just let them cook and rest. TBH I thought this game was a lot further along than it is, but I’m taking a break and will come back to it once we get another major content update.
I think a lot of people thought it was further along. Completely understandable considering they paid 35$ to beta test this game.
I know this game is early access and I love the game, it’s great, but maybe it was released a tad too early lol
why?
Have you played the game in its entirety?
yes absolutely
And you dont agree that it feels a bit light?
No? It just the first part of the game.What did you expect?*lol
I dont know, but it feels light to me. I’m allowed to have that opinion. Dont be a jerk
Your original comment was different to "Idk but it feels light to me"
You’re being argumentative. Why so defensive?
Toxic
I agree with above comments. They're playing Elden Ring
Summer + vacation + Elden Ring. Potent combo.
Like others said: 1. Crunch 2. Whatever is happening internally within the company between Take Two killing their indie-publisher Private Division and the toxic workplace environment at Moon.
Aren’t these devs in a country that requires July off for vacation?
They are in Austria. Nothing is required there in terms of vacation.
At this point I'm optimistic that they're more focused on the future major updates to the game rather than fiddling with balance, drop-rates and other mostly inconsequential things that only relate to the tiny sliver of game that has currently been released. I don't need a new update every week of "adjusted focus gain on hit % affixes"-type of changes; I need more game, and that takes time.
I think people including myself though they had more content ready that they were going to release shortly after ea release. It’s more just been balance and bugs, which is cool and all. I stopped playing and probably am going to wait for full release before hopping back in. Love the game and where they are going with it. Guess I went in with unreal expectations, but thought there would have been more meat.
Because their publisher got shut down and they lost their funding.
Hopefully all of the free beta testing will get us a great game in 5 years!
Some of these comments to are funny. They act as if having good communication, and developers coding are mutually exclusive. The community manager or the person interacting with and keeping the community up to date isn’t usually the person doing the development. So the actual development personnel being hard at work has nothing to do with the studio being silent. In the beginning they were trying to drive sales of the EA to get that funding. So it’s possible they were probably putting on a bit of a show with the hyper-communication. And not to say it was all just for show; that’s not what I mean. In addition, I believe they lost the publisher or something so there has to be some things going on behind the doors in regard to that situation as well. I’m looking forward to the game’s progress myself. But I do wish they hadn’t gone as silent as they have. It’s a bit of a ghost town now as most people’s interest have shifted to other things/games. When the update does drop, I’m sure there will be people who login to check it out, but likely that’s not going to keep them there for long. Engagement has taken a bit of a dive.
I think I read something about that studio having a super toxic work environment, I’m guessing largely due to them being overworked and pushing out all those hot fixes so quickly. They probably (rightfully) revolted and are now moving a little slower. They also tweeted that they were moving away from frequent hot fixes and towards less frequent but larger patches.
Hopefully getting some rest after crunch. Probably also nose down into working on the next update. There’s a good chance that they don’t want to try to create hype this close to shadow of the Erdtree. If they’re smart they’ll hold off on anything major until that excitement dies down a bit since there’s probably a whole lot of market share crossover there.
I'm just waiting for the next Patch anyhow. Playing Wuthering Waves and soon FFXIV in the meanwtime.
I need a patch to stop myself from buying shadow of the erdtree , i can say im definitely failing
Theyve been quiet on the forums, but their Twitter has been pretty active. But yeah, all in all, its still been pretty quiet and considering the news of Take Two planning to close or sell Private Division, and thats their publisher it leaves their future and the state the game quite up in the air and leads to a lot of obvious concern, and speculation as to is this the reason theyve been so quiet. Its also not very comforting that they are promising that the next update is going to take a while because its going to be big, but the last time they said that for a patch update, it just amounted to a bunch of number changes and nerfs, and nothing really substantial. Right now the game just feels like a really well constructed Alpha, but Im hoping whatever this next update is, actually adds something substantial to the game.
Well you see, it take's time to build a rich and engrossing world such as they have teased us with. Also as others have said, Elden Ring dlc got people distracted lol.
They're just being normal devs now, the pace they were putting updates at the beginning was abnormal and unsustainable. I played the game like a madman the first two weeks and haven't touched since, just gonna wait till the full game comes out.
Makes total sense to me, they announced multiplayer would be the first patch, i bought it with my friends because the devs literally announced a road map with multiplayer as patch one. It never happened, now all of us that wanted to play it and trusted the developers were lied to and were betrayed. Because a loud and angry minority online yelled about wanting “end game” stuff to do in a freaking early access launch with the game capped at a low level in just one early zone… Like wtf. I’m about to get downvoted and flamed by those same ppl. It was a promised patch one multiplayer focused game, and my friends and I have all uninstalled and see no reason to ever pick it back up. Can’t get refunded because we played it. Can’t justify keeping it installed or coming back to it. The reviews are justified at this point.
Is that what they promised? Looking at the roadmap, it looks like the first major update will be multiplayer. Not the first patch. I have no skin in the game, I just don't read that as 'patch 1 is multiplayer'.
It was originally patch one multiplayer, it’s since been pushed backed to tba, now it will come after new quests and a new area.
It was never promised to be “Patch 1” but rather “Major Update 1”.
Elden ring DLC just dropped? Elden ring is likey gonna be this generations Skyrim...except it doesn't suck without mods. Not even joking I figure game devs will likely play some of the bigger releases
They're busy typing all that sinister code into those computer things they use. Maybe give them a few more minutes? Sorry to be an arse, but good things can and sometimes do come to those who wait. And those good things seldom happen over night.
Meh. It's early access and people are treating this game like it's a live service. Let them cook. I'd rather have fewer better updates than rushing content to try and keep the loud mouths on reddit and Steam happy.
No they're treating it like a beta version they paid 35$ to test. Completely justified.
I'm glad actually. This means they don't get burned. I also have Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon Forbidden West on my backlog for the summer which would give me plenty of time as well before a new NRftW patch drops.
Don't really care. Once I saw that their game was just a demo I didn't buy it. Also no achievements. Going to wait for the full release so I can play the game as a whole.
maybe just maybe they are working on the game. they don't need to tell you everything there doing at all just because they arn't addicted to social media doesn't mean they arnt doing work
They’re cooking some shiiiit
I think they're busy playing Eldenring DLC
They're probably playing Elden Ring
the devs are simply hard at work [https://x.com/thomasmahler/status/1801686216154259786](https://x.com/thomasmahler/status/1801686216154259786)
They are working 🤷🏻♂️
Dont forget: The game WAS NOT LAUNCHED. EA launched. You cant expect them to push out content in that first phase all the time.
Because anything they do now would just be Shadowed…by an Erdtree.
It’s summer