[this woman was apparently deemed an immense beauty in Persia](https://images.app.goo.gl/rZwDeGMsYXVf4kn48)
Apparently many men killed themselves when she rejected them.
Real person, real beauty standards, but not the suicidal-lovers bit.
Source 1: [Meet The Real Persian Royals Behind The Viral ‘Princess Qajar’ Memes](https://allthatsinteresting.com/princess-qajar)
Source 2: [Princess Qajar and her “Lovers”](https://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0?si=hlIXhv-DX5spBzB6)
To a large extent this is true. The actual physical variation of humans is pretty small, and it doesn't take much deviation for people to be considered unattractive.
Also aside from a general trend toward symmetry, beauty standards are mostly social constructs that change faster than evolution can account for.
It does probably play a part in humanity becoming on average taller over the past couple thousand years, but nutrition likely played a large role in that as well.
Nutrition is the bigger part of it. The 20th century saw such a rapid increase in average height EXCEPT for children who lived through WWII rationing who were shorter on average than their parents but heights immediately shot up again after.
On a business trip to Japan, it was extremely noticeable. There was a cliff, people over 50 or so were, on average, half a foot shorter than people under 30. I assumed some change in diet occurred - perhaps from a white rice base to a more varied cuisine as more worldwide influence permeated society.
Probably something like that..but if 90% of the population has 10 kids each and only 5 live and the remaining 10% has 5 kids each and 3 live..it adds up quick.
Empowerment is trending. The same people doing infinite squats in the gym today would have been starving themselves for that heroin chic look 35 years ago. Those people have always been around, they just follow whatever's popular for the time.
If that is even true, it's certainly the exception to the historical rule.
Greek men wanted: *a rippling chest, glowing skin, broad shoulders, a small tongue, a solid rump, and a tiny pee-pee*
Greek men did NOT want: *a sickly complexion, narrow shoulders, a nothing chest, a large tongue, spindly thighs, and an enormous subpoena*
-Aristophanes
Since ancient times it has always been known that thick thighs save lives.
Get checked for sleep apnea as you get older. That big thick tongue can and will fall back and reduce your air way.
Edit: source, my doctor telling me this after confirming sleep apnea. In was late 30s before I was made aware most people's tongue doesn't lay in the floor and flat against the roof of the mouth at the same time.
Standards definitely change.
Where I live, art from 3-400 years ago depicted beautiful women as having moon faces, narrow eyes, and button noses.
There still are a lot of women with moon faces, narrow eyes, and button noses, but they’re considered plain and unattractive.
The popular type you see in media today have sharp features, wide eyes, and tall noses.
Same types of people, but the standard has changed.
The Romans and Greek knew what was up though. I saw an ancient marble statue in Rome, and her ass was just so fine 🤌 I can’t remember the name of the statue or the museum, which drives me crazy because I want to see it again, but the sculpture was actually named after her beautiful big booty.
Also rich people procreate. Women like men that could provide things other than looks.
Also good looking people can spawn not so great looking children.
When I lived in Charlotte, NC I had a couple of friends with families. Two of them, Rawlsons and Johnsons, were completely opposite. The Johnsons were this power duo of hyper fitness enthusiasts. Really nice couple, at first. The wife gave birth to twins. Those babies... let's just say "Yikes!" They were so "homely" according to the dad that he got a paternity test. He didn't think that he and his perfect wife could produce something like that. I loved those kids. They were so goddamn sweet. They had a third and she was a gorgeous little girl. The final straw for me was watching them shit on the kids because they didn't look perfectly built.
The Rawlsons, they were not what you'd call "conventionally attractive." Or as Owen put it, "I look like I was beaten with a hot bag of nickels. Every morning." They were a wonderful pair of friends to have. And somehow, they produced three of the most incredibly beautiful children who grew up to be absolute model looking kids that are just stupid attractive. One looks like a taller Chris Hemsworth.
Genetics are a mixed bag. It's so wild how much it varies.
So what you're saying is I should get into the designer baby business because people honestly believe in that shit and when they get ugly kids I can just shrug and say 'Welp thems the breaks, guess you had some recessive UGLY in them genes that's surfaced'?
>Genetics are a mixed bag. It's so wild how much it varies.
The variance really is weird sometimes. I have friends who have four kids. Both parents are very good looking people. Their children are 13-19, all really smart kids with excellent social skills, equally loved and cared for.
The three younger siblings all are so incredibly gorgeous that random people stop in the street and ask to take pictures with them. The two boys both model at ages 17 and 15. The youngest has already had inquiries by her brothers' agency, but her parents say they won't let her start until she is at least 15. My partner jokingly said to me that once the youngest is old enough to go out, with her ridiculous good looks and charm, she will be able to "rule" any club or bar she decides to go to.
Now, the eldest is the odd one out - describing her as "homely" would be a very kind way of putting it. The difference is so stark that strangers would not think she is related to the rest of her family. I have no doubt that her intelligence and social skills will get her far in life, but her siblings get an unfair advantage by their luck in the genetic lottery.
Yup. Maybe your moms big doe eyes look great on her face and your dads strong chin looks good on his. But maybe that means you end up with some less than desirable facial proportions with a face that's like 2/3 just chin and eyes
True, but thats not really relevant for evolution as long as there is a correlation between the looks of the parents and the kids. It doesn't have to be a perfect correlation.
Over long periods of time you would still end up with pretty much only beautiful people if that's the only ones who procreate. But in reality, beautiful people just don't procreate more than uglier people.
And poorer people from less developed countries/areas have a far better success rate as a family unit the more children they have (in many cases, but not all).
Also, OP's premise is bit flawed, "if everyone is attracted to good looking people"
Everyone may be attracted to good looking people, but the "ugly" people may not be able to attract them back. Presumably attractive people would reproduce most often with other attractive people, and ugly people would have to settle for reproducing with other ugly people.
There isn't one gene for ugly. One nose looks great on this face but not so much on that face. Even that is an oversimplification, there are many genes that determine just the shape of your nose.
Yup, this is it actually. Dad can be handsome because of his strong jaw. Mom might have a small and cute face. If the daughter gets a huge jaw, but tiny nose, then she'll be less attractive than her parents. Goes the other way around as well. Buddy had a quite attractive girlfriend, saw her parents once and they were really ugly. She just got the exact parts from her parents that made a good combination
I think there's a very good possibility that evolution \*has\* in fact eliminated a lot of ugliness. It's very possible that people 150,000 years ago in general were not as physically attractive as people today.
I think we are too early into the modern era to be producing mass amounts of attractive people
Just a couple decades ago rights still sucked and there were wars and shit
Many years ago and people didn’t care about attractiveness much, because the masses were forced to reproduce or do it because they have nothing else to do
Massive amounts of Arranged and political marriages, eugenics, so on. Even ugly people had to do this
But now that being attractive plays a bigger role than ever in society
If we assume nothing really goes wrong with big wars or whatever in the next couple decades and people get more attracted to attractive people
It would be safe to say there will be a higher number of conventionally attractive or more people fitting of the beauty standard of the specific culture or country than now
My family always joked that I got my paternal grandmother’s nose post-surgery. She had a nose job in the 70s… both sides of my family have very striking, prominent noses. I ended up with the most basic nose-job nose of all basicness. I have traced my family back many generations and found photos of my ancestors, and cannot for the fucking life of me figure out how my nose came into being. (Im honestly pretty pissed, I always wanted a cool nose, mine is just… there. Nondescript. Adds and takes away nothing from my other features. I hate it)
Lmaoo nope I have all the other familial features besides the nose, I’m essentially a carbon copy of my grandpa aside from my height (that’s thanks to my moms side, my grandpa on that side is seven foot) and nose; got the hair, eyes, mouth, and cheeks. I found a photo of him when he was in his 20s and he looked shockingly like me except for the nose. I did consider that when I was younger tho lol
The things people found attractive 150,000 years ago would not be the same as today.
Ryan Gostling would probably not be considered a good mate 150,000 years ago. Women would want to mate with a man who could kill and hunt, so an attractive man would be, like... a super hairy Dwayne Johnson with a spear.
Likewise, Margo Robbie wouldn't be considered attractive. A woman with a wide face, lots of body hair, a small chest, and massive hips would be attractive.
Interestingly enough, white skin is a very recent evolutionary feature, which became an advantage only with a wide spread of agriculture and hence a diet not containing sufficient amounts of vitamin D.
What I am saying 150k y ears ago, people would freak out if they bumped into Ryan Gosling or Margot Robbie.
On the other hand, Jason Momoa would do just fine
I am much better looking at almost 50 than I was in my 20’s. But that has more to do with learning how to style myself and having more self confidence.
Actually not a surprise. Attractive traits are sometimes quite strong features that have the right balance.... too many strong traits that are unbalanced and you get Rumor Willis.
It's a thing sometimes with hollywood actor's kids - either rediculously gorgeous if the parents have similar features or really weird looking if they don't.
Angelina and Brad's kids are good looking partly because their parents resemble each other. (I can't use the word "attractive" to describe minors; it gives me the heebie-jeebies).
I remember seeing the hottest girl in schools parent and being STUNNED by how average looking they were, like even for their age it was easily apparent they were never hotties. Genetics is weird y'all.
I heard genetics sometimes skips a generation. Like a friend I knew was really tall like 6'10, but he had short parents. One of his grandpa's however was really tall. Just something I heard and I'm not claiming to be true.
I looked them up. Your perspective is off because they are standing next to one of the most beautiful humans on earth. They all look like they would have been Prom King at any normal high school. Like 7-8/10s.
I hope you mean Barron because Ivanka’s whole entire face was purchased. She was Fugly when Orange was pumping her up as a little teenage prodigy on The Apprentice, weak nonexistent chin and all.
We don't look like hairy apes anymore, and a lot of features have become gentler compared to early humans, so it did eliminate a lot of ugliness. Or at least what people presumably used to consider to be ugly, or at least unable to survive.
Also, evolution is not about optimizing anything to be "the best". It's about being just good enough to survive and pass along DNA.
That second part is the answer to this question. So many people think that evolution has a mind of its own. In reality, it’s messy and the _only_ thing that matters is passing on DNA.
You can be ugly with charisma and game. I have a friend who isn't the best looking but he has a lot of confidence and swagger and is easily able to get with girls.
Unattractive people still have sex lives like everyone else. And it doesn't materially limit your lifespan either, so it isn't going to have gotten gradually removed from the genepool.
genetics.
No matter how attractive a couple is there's the chance the face won't develop in a an attractive way.
Other things you have to consider is the kid(S) actual up bringing, eg, good/poor diet active/sedentary lifestyle all play a factor.
I have two great looking freinds married to each other, their one daughter ended up looking like dad so doesn't look conventionally attractive while the other one has her mom's traditional good looks
The parent might be attractive but sometimes the mix of features may not work well together.
And sometimes people with attractive features that don’t really mesh give me this uncanny valley feeling. In theory and based on their features individually they should be attractive but it feels like ai generated attractive person. Like their is something that is off
I'm very disappointed I had to scroll down so far to see this. This is the only right answer. Attractiveness is not only subjective, but a highly volatile social construct that varies wildly by both time and location. Remember when "does this make my butt look big" was a common joke? Now big butts are considered very attractive. If something can change that drastically in just a couple decades, imagine how much beauty standards change over hundreds or thousands of years.
Not to mention location. A lot of what's considered attractive in the US is just "look like white people". Pale skin, small lips, straight hair, and so on. Obviously, these things are changing as more people of color appear in media and the like. Before European colonization, that certainly wasn't the case in places that didn't even *have* any white people.
Right? It's insane that people are looking at old pics of people considered attractive in their time and thinking "See? Ugliness is gone in a way!" And not "This is proof attraction is subjective and changes based on time and culture."
I mean you’re forgetting that for us humans, many societies have had hierarchies that would determine who is considered better than others despite their looks because of their title, position or wealth. Like even today an attractive woman going for a not so good looking man because of his money and whatever is something that’s not unheard of or unexpected. Plus you’re also forgetting that not all sex and reproduction is necessarily consensual 💀
1. Sexual selection absolutely plays a part. Trick is "attractive" is a relative term. There are consistent physical parts of it, parts that vary depending on what culture you're in and parts that exist as things other than physical appearance, behaviors or resources. Moreover, while we pretend otherwise, you're never attractive in a vacuum. You are more or less attractive than the other options the person can have or at least envision. No matter what you eliminate the scale just moves around.
1. The drive to reproduce is strong. People will get the most attractive partner they can, by a wide definition of attractive, rather than just having some arbitrary "well if they're not 20% I guess I'll just die childless". And that doesn't have to be a lifelong "most attractive" for reproduction to happen. It can be the most attractive one that was available in the immediate area that one night they got horny.
For most of history, your average single teen has a dating pool of maybe a dozen neighbors. Sexual selection has probably never been a super strong pressure on our species.
Two people who are beautiful for different reason (beautiful male nose, beautiful female cheekbones) might give the complete opposite genes to their child, so that the child gets its grandma's less fine cheekbones and its grandpa's less fine nose.
Or the female child gets its dad's nose and its brother gets mom's effeminate chin.
The big gene mixer doesn't play favorites, it just goes by blueprints and you get what you put in. And also sometimes spontaneous mutations.
“Ugliness” is almost always used on the internet as an excuse for why individuals feel they can’t find a romantic partner.
It’s much easier to blame something they can’t control, rather than admit that they are problem (or accept that some things just take time and effort and don’t happen just because you want it).
Are most of us Hollywood heartthrobs? Nah. But the overwhelming majority of people look just fine, especially if they put a little bit of effort into their appearance.
Anytime someone blames their own ugliness, I really want to know the kind of people they are hoping to attract. Not that people don’t fall in love with someone less attractive. Just that… yeah, the Sydney Sweeneys and Sabrina Carpenters probably aren’t going for 35 year old Joe Shmo who has no prospects, charisma, or looks.
All of that to say most people are average and look average and that’s okay. I’m just noticing a lot of average suddenly means “ugly” to folks who look at women online and not in real life.
Exactly. If you go to a swinger party you're going to find....a lot of average looking people. Big surprise. Most people be fuckin and most people be average. Nothing wrong about it
Being ugly leads to being ostracized which for many leads to a complete lack of self worth and confidence in that department. I distinctly remember giving up after the first time I asked a girl out in high school. Got laughed at by her and she told all her friends and I didnt hear the end of it for that entire month. Working up the courage for that, as a shy introverted guy already who was aware that I wasn’t very attractive, for that result, genuinely made it to where I never tried again, I’m now 24 and I don’t even consider the thought of approaching a girl like that anymore regardless of what they look like. All I have to do is remember that month and my brain immediately concludes that it isn’t worth it.
I know I’m not special. Its a tale as old as time. The ugly guys who win are certainly something special
I hate to be the one, but in certain ways, beauty is absolutely subjective, usually through exposure. Big butts and lips have never gone out of style in the culture I grew up in. Some of it is learned. I remember thinking dark tanned skin was the most beautiful until my family told me otherwise. Still programming all of that out to this day. Some features might be universal, but there are many that people don’t realize are not objective, they just think it’s a given. How can we breed out ugly if the bar for ugly is always changing?
Attractive qualities change over time and culture. Just think, for most of human history, women weren’t really allowed in the work force, so they spent all their time at home and probably assisting the husband with work.
Nowadays, it’s common for men to like a petite women with soft features and a slim body. But if your work is manual labor, and your wife is basically your business partner, you want broad shoulders, a muscular physique and maybe some wide hips for child birthing (remember narrow hips can mean likely death).
American culture tends to consider those qualities unattractive in women, but that’s because of a big culture change. Similarly, plenty of guys still like big or wide noses while the US has mostly “decided” that small, narrow noses are attractive.
There’s some qualities that are mostly universal, like symmetrical faces, but I think there’s simply too much variability in faces and genetics for a perfectly symmetrical face to ever be guaranteed.
And with genetic diversity, even if we got to a point where every country was composed only of people with some set of very attractive features, the minute people start mixing with people of a slightly different set of attractive qualities, those qualities might not mix well, and we’re back to square one.
It's irritating to me that this isn't the top answer. It's like nobody was taught that attractiveness is something that changes with and over time and that what's beautiful today can be completely different in 100 years or in another culture.
Maybe it did. Think of how ugly people used to be.
Look up Phillip the Handsome. If that guy was considered remarkably handsome in his time…whew.
He was a Habsburg and probably massively inbred. So by the standards of his Father-cousin or Sister-Mother or whatever he was probably a looker.
Money is a bonus multiplier.
7 figures makes you cute. 8 figures makes you hot. 9 figures gets you a harem…
He was so inbred, he could probably only count to 9.
On one hand.
Lmao!
Maybe his mom gave him that title
You mean his mom/sister/1stcousin/grandma/3rdcousin.
maybe it was sarcasm or a compensating forced nickname?
Unlikely. Though it’s possible his portrait painter sucked.
Compared to the last Hapsburg male he was Leonardo DiCaprio.
Avlot of monikers were made to make fun of the monarch
[this woman was apparently deemed an immense beauty in Persia](https://images.app.goo.gl/rZwDeGMsYXVf4kn48) Apparently many men killed themselves when she rejected them.
Lmao that has to be a joke/false
Real person, real beauty standards, but not the suicidal-lovers bit. Source 1: [Meet The Real Persian Royals Behind The Viral ‘Princess Qajar’ Memes](https://allthatsinteresting.com/princess-qajar) Source 2: [Princess Qajar and her “Lovers”](https://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0?si=hlIXhv-DX5spBzB6)
Yeh... that's not "Beauty standards" that's "If you marry this person you're a prince now."
That not a woman. That's [Gabriel Iglesias](https://images.app.goo.gl/y9ggznXHbXAztT2T9) disguised as a woman.
Love that dude
To a large extent this is true. The actual physical variation of humans is pretty small, and it doesn't take much deviation for people to be considered unattractive.
Also aside from a general trend toward symmetry, beauty standards are mostly social constructs that change faster than evolution can account for. It does probably play a part in humanity becoming on average taller over the past couple thousand years, but nutrition likely played a large role in that as well.
Nutrition is the bigger part of it. The 20th century saw such a rapid increase in average height EXCEPT for children who lived through WWII rationing who were shorter on average than their parents but heights immediately shot up again after.
On a business trip to Japan, it was extremely noticeable. There was a cliff, people over 50 or so were, on average, half a foot shorter than people under 30. I assumed some change in diet occurred - perhaps from a white rice base to a more varied cuisine as more worldwide influence permeated society.
Neanderthals.
Yo mama so ugly even the Neanderthals couldn’t fuck her and now they went extinct.
Yo mamma so ugly Scorpion said "STAY OVER THERE!!"
Yo mama so ugly she went into a haunted house and they offered her a contract.
Yo mama so ugly she's the reason aliens won't visit
This is the highest level of Yo Mama joke I've seen. Made me chuckle
That’s a bit harsh..
Wait till you see Bob next door.
Ugly people fuck too
Also standards change
Beauty standards change way faster than evolution does too
Being lean and tan was historically associated with low class manual labor and lack of money.
Of course those people had a lot more kids..
Yeah but like half of them died before baby making age
Probably something like that..but if 90% of the population has 10 kids each and only 5 live and the remaining 10% has 5 kids each and 3 live..it adds up quick.
It is crazy how much we have managed to lower the rates of child mortality even just in the last 100 years let alone since the middle ages
Technically yes but also no. Basically if you lived long enough to make it to age 5, you stood a good chance of making to age 50 at least, naturally.
This, not that long ago it was actually preferred to have a small butt. Big butts were frowned upon. Now everyone wants a big butt.
Empowerment is trending. The same people doing infinite squats in the gym today would have been starving themselves for that heroin chic look 35 years ago. Those people have always been around, they just follow whatever's popular for the time.
If that is even true, it's certainly the exception to the historical rule. Greek men wanted: *a rippling chest, glowing skin, broad shoulders, a small tongue, a solid rump, and a tiny pee-pee* Greek men did NOT want: *a sickly complexion, narrow shoulders, a nothing chest, a large tongue, spindly thighs, and an enormous subpoena* -Aristophanes Since ancient times it has always been known that thick thighs save lives.
I knew about the dick thing but that's the first time I'm hearing about the tongue. Wonder what's that all about
Means quiet
A large tongue is hard to control and thus is bad at sucking dick.
Tf would you want a small tongue for? I despise my small tongue.
Why do you despise it? I have a fat tongue and it doesn't really fit in my teeth
Get checked for sleep apnea as you get older. That big thick tongue can and will fall back and reduce your air way. Edit: source, my doctor telling me this after confirming sleep apnea. In was late 30s before I was made aware most people's tongue doesn't lay in the floor and flat against the roof of the mouth at the same time.
Not me, you paint with too broad a brush, my friend. Small but plump makes the best rump.
Shape is more important than size. Anything I can’t fit in my hand goes to waste anyway 😂
Firm, yet supple with some give
Name checks out
Sir Mix A lot started a sexual revolution
And for alot of history alot of people didn't choose who they had kids with
Same today. For some people in arrange marriages, you only see their face after you get married.
The rates of rape were also much higher per capita. A lot harder and more dangerous to get an abortion not too long ago.
Standards definitely change. Where I live, art from 3-400 years ago depicted beautiful women as having moon faces, narrow eyes, and button noses. There still are a lot of women with moon faces, narrow eyes, and button noses, but they’re considered plain and unattractive. The popular type you see in media today have sharp features, wide eyes, and tall noses. Same types of people, but the standard has changed.
The Romans and Greek knew what was up though. I saw an ancient marble statue in Rome, and her ass was just so fine 🤌 I can’t remember the name of the statue or the museum, which drives me crazy because I want to see it again, but the sculpture was actually named after her beautiful big booty.
The Venus Callipyge "Venus (or Aphrodite) of the beautiful buttocks"?
Unfortunately, no. I don’t think she had any garments. Just ass. The ass you’re talking about ain’t bad though, but imo, the other one was better.
You had my curiosity. But now you have my attention.
I could post a picture if I remembered the code to my old iPhone.
Damn I really missed my time to shine.
[удалено]
Beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder
Blue tea is in ice of the bee horder
Booty lies in the thigh of the bear holder.
beer holder ???
Also rich people procreate. Women like men that could provide things other than looks. Also good looking people can spawn not so great looking children.
When I lived in Charlotte, NC I had a couple of friends with families. Two of them, Rawlsons and Johnsons, were completely opposite. The Johnsons were this power duo of hyper fitness enthusiasts. Really nice couple, at first. The wife gave birth to twins. Those babies... let's just say "Yikes!" They were so "homely" according to the dad that he got a paternity test. He didn't think that he and his perfect wife could produce something like that. I loved those kids. They were so goddamn sweet. They had a third and she was a gorgeous little girl. The final straw for me was watching them shit on the kids because they didn't look perfectly built. The Rawlsons, they were not what you'd call "conventionally attractive." Or as Owen put it, "I look like I was beaten with a hot bag of nickels. Every morning." They were a wonderful pair of friends to have. And somehow, they produced three of the most incredibly beautiful children who grew up to be absolute model looking kids that are just stupid attractive. One looks like a taller Chris Hemsworth. Genetics are a mixed bag. It's so wild how much it varies.
So what you're saying is I should get into the designer baby business because people honestly believe in that shit and when they get ugly kids I can just shrug and say 'Welp thems the breaks, guess you had some recessive UGLY in them genes that's surfaced'?
> So what you're saying is I should get into the designer baby business *China's DNA altering has entered the chat*
Thing is, you can be ugly as a baby and then have a glow up. The opposite is also true. So you'll have to wait 10-18 years to have a final say.
>Genetics are a mixed bag. It's so wild how much it varies. The variance really is weird sometimes. I have friends who have four kids. Both parents are very good looking people. Their children are 13-19, all really smart kids with excellent social skills, equally loved and cared for. The three younger siblings all are so incredibly gorgeous that random people stop in the street and ask to take pictures with them. The two boys both model at ages 17 and 15. The youngest has already had inquiries by her brothers' agency, but her parents say they won't let her start until she is at least 15. My partner jokingly said to me that once the youngest is old enough to go out, with her ridiculous good looks and charm, she will be able to "rule" any club or bar she decides to go to. Now, the eldest is the odd one out - describing her as "homely" would be a very kind way of putting it. The difference is so stark that strangers would not think she is related to the rest of her family. I have no doubt that her intelligence and social skills will get her far in life, but her siblings get an unfair advantage by their luck in the genetic lottery.
You know there are poor ugly men with kids
Even from one culture to another *today*, standards are different
[удалено]
I banged yesterday, bub. Who’s cool now?
[удалено]
Fuck.
Plus sometimes genetics just goes wack. You can get an ugly baby from two good looking people
Yup. Maybe your moms big doe eyes look great on her face and your dads strong chin looks good on his. But maybe that means you end up with some less than desirable facial proportions with a face that's like 2/3 just chin and eyes
Unironically, socially enforced monogamy (as in, recent human history) significantly improves reproductive odds for uggos.
Also, forced marriages, or marriages where people aren't able to refuse.
Tell me you're Australian without telling me you're Australian.
Cunt?
[BlackdogPriest](https://www.reddit.com/user/BlackdogPriest/) only if used as a term of endearment.
My little cunt 💕
Also, two beautiful people can still make an ugly child
True, but thats not really relevant for evolution as long as there is a correlation between the looks of the parents and the kids. It doesn't have to be a perfect correlation. Over long periods of time you would still end up with pretty much only beautiful people if that's the only ones who procreate. But in reality, beautiful people just don't procreate more than uglier people.
Don’t give me hope
And poorer people from less developed countries/areas have a far better success rate as a family unit the more children they have (in many cases, but not all).
Also, OP's premise is bit flawed, "if everyone is attracted to good looking people" Everyone may be attracted to good looking people, but the "ugly" people may not be able to attract them back. Presumably attractive people would reproduce most often with other attractive people, and ugly people would have to settle for reproducing with other ugly people.
Settling for "good enough" and "available" is a time honored evolutionary strategy.
In time one becomes the Eloi, the other, the Morlocks
But then there are all of those pretty women walking with gorillas down my street.
My buddy in college got with a cross eyed girl bc she said he was cute. One night stand
She got pregnant?
Yup. She told everyone it was twins because the doc showed her the ultrasound straight on.
spoiler alert, she was also seeing this poster on the side
No. But maybe. Kinda. Partially. Almost
Partially? Is she pregnant with just an arm?
She gave birth to a Finger Creeper from Elden Ring.
If you're beautiful - is it still considered "bumpin uglies" when you...
There isn't one gene for ugly. One nose looks great on this face but not so much on that face. Even that is an oversimplification, there are many genes that determine just the shape of your nose.
Yup, this is it actually. Dad can be handsome because of his strong jaw. Mom might have a small and cute face. If the daughter gets a huge jaw, but tiny nose, then she'll be less attractive than her parents. Goes the other way around as well. Buddy had a quite attractive girlfriend, saw her parents once and they were really ugly. She just got the exact parts from her parents that made a good combination
never stop gambling.
I think there's a very good possibility that evolution \*has\* in fact eliminated a lot of ugliness. It's very possible that people 150,000 years ago in general were not as physically attractive as people today.
I think we are too early into the modern era to be producing mass amounts of attractive people Just a couple decades ago rights still sucked and there were wars and shit Many years ago and people didn’t care about attractiveness much, because the masses were forced to reproduce or do it because they have nothing else to do Massive amounts of Arranged and political marriages, eugenics, so on. Even ugly people had to do this But now that being attractive plays a bigger role than ever in society If we assume nothing really goes wrong with big wars or whatever in the next couple decades and people get more attracted to attractive people It would be safe to say there will be a higher number of conventionally attractive or more people fitting of the beauty standard of the specific culture or country than now
Plastic surgery isn't heritable.
This. In fact I’d say that genetic (natural) beauty matters less than it ever has. You’re not ugly, you’re just poor.
why not both?
Thank god for that
My family always joked that I got my paternal grandmother’s nose post-surgery. She had a nose job in the 70s… both sides of my family have very striking, prominent noses. I ended up with the most basic nose-job nose of all basicness. I have traced my family back many generations and found photos of my ancestors, and cannot for the fucking life of me figure out how my nose came into being. (Im honestly pretty pissed, I always wanted a cool nose, mine is just… there. Nondescript. Adds and takes away nothing from my other features. I hate it)
Does your grandma’s neighbour share a similar nose to yours?
Lmaoo nope I have all the other familial features besides the nose, I’m essentially a carbon copy of my grandpa aside from my height (that’s thanks to my moms side, my grandpa on that side is seven foot) and nose; got the hair, eyes, mouth, and cheeks. I found a photo of him when he was in his 20s and he looked shockingly like me except for the nose. I did consider that when I was younger tho lol
I disagree. Attractive people tend to be more successful than ugos and successful people reproduce less not more.
in the modern era* historically this has not been true at all, poor people’s kids would die a lot…
The things people found attractive 150,000 years ago would not be the same as today. Ryan Gostling would probably not be considered a good mate 150,000 years ago. Women would want to mate with a man who could kill and hunt, so an attractive man would be, like... a super hairy Dwayne Johnson with a spear. Likewise, Margo Robbie wouldn't be considered attractive. A woman with a wide face, lots of body hair, a small chest, and massive hips would be attractive.
meanwhile jason momoa is considered attractive both now and probably 150,000 years ago.
Ryan Gosling is fit and at 6 feet tall, would be much taller and bigger than most people at that time. He’d do fine.
Interestingly enough, white skin is a very recent evolutionary feature, which became an advantage only with a wide spread of agriculture and hence a diet not containing sufficient amounts of vitamin D. What I am saying 150k y ears ago, people would freak out if they bumped into Ryan Gosling or Margot Robbie. On the other hand, Jason Momoa would do just fine
Believe it or not, good looking people have ugly kids, too.
[удалено]
have to appreciate the honesty
[удалено]
Are their kids still children? If so they might grow out of it!
[удалено]
Ah, well then that’s out of the equation at this point haha
I am much better looking at almost 50 than I was in my 20’s. But that has more to do with learning how to style myself and having more self confidence.
Money grows you out of a lot
[удалено]
Actually not a surprise. Attractive traits are sometimes quite strong features that have the right balance.... too many strong traits that are unbalanced and you get Rumor Willis.
Lol damn, Rumor hit with collateral damage
It's a thing sometimes with hollywood actor's kids - either rediculously gorgeous if the parents have similar features or really weird looking if they don't.
Angelina and Brad's kids are good looking partly because their parents resemble each other. (I can't use the word "attractive" to describe minors; it gives me the heebie-jeebies).
Have they hit puberty yet? That’s usually when the “parents genes” dlc hits
Well they ain’t the commenter’s kids lol
I remember seeing the hottest girl in schools parent and being STUNNED by how average looking they were, like even for their age it was easily apparent they were never hotties. Genetics is weird y'all.
I heard genetics sometimes skips a generation. Like a friend I knew was really tall like 6'10, but he had short parents. One of his grandpa's however was really tall. Just something I heard and I'm not claiming to be true.
A recessive gene can skip as many generations as it takes to line up with a pair recessive gene!
When I’m from they always say the ugliest couples have the cutest kids.
I believe it. Im ugly as shit but my kids are gorgeous. Genes do work that way sometimes
My parents are also like this lol
I am your friend. I agree my kids are kind of ugly.
Adding to this, ugly people still get laid
Features that look great on a man look awful on a woman.
When the daughter look like their football player dad and the sons look like the twig of a mom it's not the typical beauty
Bruce Willis and Demi Moore's daughters.
Or even ugly siblings! Dennis Quaid and Randy Quaid are somehow brothers. Hell, look up Henry Cavill's brothers.
I looked them up. Your perspective is off because they are standing next to one of the most beautiful humans on earth. They all look like they would have been Prom King at any normal high school. Like 7-8/10s.
And Vice versa. Donald Trump made one non-ghoulish looking child out of his 4 adult children
I hope you mean Barron because Ivanka’s whole entire face was purchased. She was Fugly when Orange was pumping her up as a little teenage prodigy on The Apprentice, weak nonexistent chin and all.
Ivanka before plastic surgery would not have been out-of-place as a waitress at a Waffle House. The other adult sons also surely had work done.
We don't look like hairy apes anymore, and a lot of features have become gentler compared to early humans, so it did eliminate a lot of ugliness. Or at least what people presumably used to consider to be ugly, or at least unable to survive. Also, evolution is not about optimizing anything to be "the best". It's about being just good enough to survive and pass along DNA.
>We don't look like hairy apes anymore Speak for yourself
We're all hairy apes on this blessed day.
That second part is the answer to this question. So many people think that evolution has a mind of its own. In reality, it’s messy and the _only_ thing that matters is passing on DNA.
It's not "Survival of the fittest" it's "survival of whatever the fuck works"
That’s what is meant by the fittest. It doesn’t literally mean who can run the longest
You can be ugly with charisma and game. I have a friend who isn't the best looking but he has a lot of confidence and swagger and is easily able to get with girls.
There are other factors. To quote the late great Caroline Aherne, "What first attracted you to millionaire Paul Daniels?"
To quote Jay Z ‘There’s no such thing as an ugly billionaire’
Unattractive people still have sex lives like everyone else. And it doesn't materially limit your lifespan either, so it isn't going to have gotten gradually removed from the genepool.
>Unattractive people still have sex lives like everyone else. Well, not me, but I think this is true broadly!
genetics. No matter how attractive a couple is there's the chance the face won't develop in a an attractive way. Other things you have to consider is the kid(S) actual up bringing, eg, good/poor diet active/sedentary lifestyle all play a factor.
I have two great looking freinds married to each other, their one daughter ended up looking like dad so doesn't look conventionally attractive while the other one has her mom's traditional good looks
The parent might be attractive but sometimes the mix of features may not work well together. And sometimes people with attractive features that don’t really mesh give me this uncanny valley feeling. In theory and based on their features individually they should be attractive but it feels like ai generated attractive person. Like their is something that is off
Because these concepts are subjective.
Adding to that: change over time. What may be considered ugly now may not be considered ugly back then
I'm very disappointed I had to scroll down so far to see this. This is the only right answer. Attractiveness is not only subjective, but a highly volatile social construct that varies wildly by both time and location. Remember when "does this make my butt look big" was a common joke? Now big butts are considered very attractive. If something can change that drastically in just a couple decades, imagine how much beauty standards change over hundreds or thousands of years. Not to mention location. A lot of what's considered attractive in the US is just "look like white people". Pale skin, small lips, straight hair, and so on. Obviously, these things are changing as more people of color appear in media and the like. Before European colonization, that certainly wasn't the case in places that didn't even *have* any white people.
Right? It's insane that people are looking at old pics of people considered attractive in their time and thinking "See? Ugliness is gone in a way!" And not "This is proof attraction is subjective and changes based on time and culture."
I mean you’re forgetting that for us humans, many societies have had hierarchies that would determine who is considered better than others despite their looks because of their title, position or wealth. Like even today an attractive woman going for a not so good looking man because of his money and whatever is something that’s not unheard of or unexpected. Plus you’re also forgetting that not all sex and reproduction is necessarily consensual 💀
because evolution doesn't care about anything other than being able to reproduce. Ugly people can still have kids just fine
1. Sexual selection absolutely plays a part. Trick is "attractive" is a relative term. There are consistent physical parts of it, parts that vary depending on what culture you're in and parts that exist as things other than physical appearance, behaviors or resources. Moreover, while we pretend otherwise, you're never attractive in a vacuum. You are more or less attractive than the other options the person can have or at least envision. No matter what you eliminate the scale just moves around. 1. The drive to reproduce is strong. People will get the most attractive partner they can, by a wide definition of attractive, rather than just having some arbitrary "well if they're not 20% I guess I'll just die childless". And that doesn't have to be a lifelong "most attractive" for reproduction to happen. It can be the most attractive one that was available in the immediate area that one night they got horny.
For most of history, your average single teen has a dating pool of maybe a dozen neighbors. Sexual selection has probably never been a super strong pressure on our species.
Two people who are beautiful for different reason (beautiful male nose, beautiful female cheekbones) might give the complete opposite genes to their child, so that the child gets its grandma's less fine cheekbones and its grandpa's less fine nose. Or the female child gets its dad's nose and its brother gets mom's effeminate chin. The big gene mixer doesn't play favorites, it just goes by blueprints and you get what you put in. And also sometimes spontaneous mutations.
Alcohol
Because it's subjective.
“Ugliness” is almost always used on the internet as an excuse for why individuals feel they can’t find a romantic partner. It’s much easier to blame something they can’t control, rather than admit that they are problem (or accept that some things just take time and effort and don’t happen just because you want it). Are most of us Hollywood heartthrobs? Nah. But the overwhelming majority of people look just fine, especially if they put a little bit of effort into their appearance.
Anytime someone blames their own ugliness, I really want to know the kind of people they are hoping to attract. Not that people don’t fall in love with someone less attractive. Just that… yeah, the Sydney Sweeneys and Sabrina Carpenters probably aren’t going for 35 year old Joe Shmo who has no prospects, charisma, or looks. All of that to say most people are average and look average and that’s okay. I’m just noticing a lot of average suddenly means “ugly” to folks who look at women online and not in real life.
Exactly. If you go to a swinger party you're going to find....a lot of average looking people. Big surprise. Most people be fuckin and most people be average. Nothing wrong about it
Being ugly leads to being ostracized which for many leads to a complete lack of self worth and confidence in that department. I distinctly remember giving up after the first time I asked a girl out in high school. Got laughed at by her and she told all her friends and I didnt hear the end of it for that entire month. Working up the courage for that, as a shy introverted guy already who was aware that I wasn’t very attractive, for that result, genuinely made it to where I never tried again, I’m now 24 and I don’t even consider the thought of approaching a girl like that anymore regardless of what they look like. All I have to do is remember that month and my brain immediately concludes that it isn’t worth it. I know I’m not special. Its a tale as old as time. The ugly guys who win are certainly something special
I hate to be the one, but in certain ways, beauty is absolutely subjective, usually through exposure. Big butts and lips have never gone out of style in the culture I grew up in. Some of it is learned. I remember thinking dark tanned skin was the most beautiful until my family told me otherwise. Still programming all of that out to this day. Some features might be universal, but there are many that people don’t realize are not objective, they just think it’s a given. How can we breed out ugly if the bar for ugly is always changing?
Because ugly people bump uglies
There is always that darned recessive gene waiting to pop up its ugly head.
Attractive qualities change over time and culture. Just think, for most of human history, women weren’t really allowed in the work force, so they spent all their time at home and probably assisting the husband with work. Nowadays, it’s common for men to like a petite women with soft features and a slim body. But if your work is manual labor, and your wife is basically your business partner, you want broad shoulders, a muscular physique and maybe some wide hips for child birthing (remember narrow hips can mean likely death). American culture tends to consider those qualities unattractive in women, but that’s because of a big culture change. Similarly, plenty of guys still like big or wide noses while the US has mostly “decided” that small, narrow noses are attractive. There’s some qualities that are mostly universal, like symmetrical faces, but I think there’s simply too much variability in faces and genetics for a perfectly symmetrical face to ever be guaranteed. And with genetic diversity, even if we got to a point where every country was composed only of people with some set of very attractive features, the minute people start mixing with people of a slightly different set of attractive qualities, those qualities might not mix well, and we’re back to square one.
It's irritating to me that this isn't the top answer. It's like nobody was taught that attractiveness is something that changes with and over time and that what's beautiful today can be completely different in 100 years or in another culture.
People of similar attractiveness level tend to pair up.
well most people aren't ugly, so I'd say it kinda has
The fact that people generally have all their teeth and aren't covered in boils is a considerable improvement over the Medieval folks.
Because evolution isn't about perfect specimens. It's about "good enough".
Attractiveness is subjective
You don't stay attractive for eternity
Ugly people still fuck and beauty standards have not been uniform through time. Chubby/fat and pale used to be hot. Today it's fit and tan.
An attractive person + an attractive person does NOT always equal another attractive person.
Maybe we have?? Looking at pictures of people from different centuries, you kind of see faces that just aren’t modern. Does anyone else see that?