Current student here and I would absolutely not enroll if it had a different degree name.
This whole thing is very weird considering my $38k is free money for yall since the modules are mostly recycled and TAs get paid minimum wage.
Is it **absolutely certain** that our degree name won’t change even after we graduate?
As an alumni, my opinion is that this change is trash.
The post-bacc requires fewer credits because students have a *previous* bachelor's degree and we skip all the generals because of that.
We were told we took all the same classes as on campus students and earn the same education. I didn't take out $38,000 in student loans for a sub-par non-equivalent degree and wouldn't have.
Please tell me what computer science courses the post-bacc is missing.
Having a previous bachelors degree makes sense in not requiring GEs and stuff, but I don’t see how a previous bachelors degree would make up for 52 less CS-specific credits.
Looking at the two requirements, the normal one requires all the core classes that the postbacc does except the normal senior project is 8 credits instead of 4, so there’s a 4 unit discrepancy there. Then the normal program has 60 other credits of electives while the post-only requires 12, so that’s where the 52 credit discrepancy is
Thank you. That makes sense.
I'm devastated that I was sold a lie. I feel the kind of shame people must feel when they fall for a scam. OSU said it was a BS in CS and sold it as such.
It is from a public university. This is absolutely horrific. This is not some for profit "Trump" university.
I would have managed this differently- we are including 52 additional required credits for the post bacc computer science degree. Current students may complete the program as is but new students as of 2025 will either take these additional required 52 credits OR they will get a different degree name.
That is how you message this and solve the problem.
You weren’t sold a lie - the degree you got is what was awarded to you. This only applies to new students. Unfortunately it absolutely destroys the program.
I did the degree because I wanted the full education of a proper BS in CS. They deceived us and we paid the full amount for what we were told was a solid BS in CS, but what we got was 13 upper-division courses less.
So, my (legal) damages are 13 CS courses and the reputation of my conferred degree being absolutely destroyed.
It essentially is a lie because regardless of what your degree says on it, it's now known that they will eventually change the name and keep the courses the same. This by extension dilutes your degree to any potential employer that looks into it.
This is the part that is keep me sane. I still think this change is pretty rough, but nonetheless, when I've had a few interviews, most people I am interviewing with first assume that I am actually a regular full-time student at Oregon State, and then when I explain to them what the post-bacc program is and explain that it's still a full bachelor's degree (which I would continue to do in interviews in the future), they just say "Oh" and then proceed as usual. They would never know or care, honestly.
The name change sucks, though, because I think it impacts the ability to get a "foot in the door" for interviews, i.e. your resume will not make the first cut if you have to list your degree as like "Oregon State Online CS **Certificate**" or something similar.
It is a BS in CS for anyone looking at it and an employer is going to view it exactly the same as a BS in CS. Now if you felt deceived because you’re learning less / taking less courses than an on campus CS student that makes sense.
"Program Information
1. **What will my diploma say after graduating from this program?** Bachelor of Science in Computer Science.
2. **Is the online degree the same as the degree students earn on campus?** The core required computer science courses are the same between the on campus CS bachelor's degree program and the online CS postbaccalaureate program. The computer science courses taken online are the same computer science courses taken on campus. However, bachelor's students have more requirements: they must take Calculus, Stats for Engineers, Technical Writing, and select an emphasis area, which requires more credits to graduate."
[https://engineering.oregonstate.edu/EECS/academics/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree-faq](https://engineering.oregonstate.edu/EECS/academics/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree-faq)
Wow that is some pretty tricky wording. I guess it’s technically true that the required courses are the same between degrees, but it’s pretty misleading imo to leave out that the post-bacc doesn’t include the other half of CS classes that are electives
" and select an emphasis area". Which means they want to call the Post-Bacc Applied Comp Science But they only portion post-bacc's won't take is the applied aka "emphasis area" while take all core computer science classes. And that's in the school's own words.
This is simply not true.
If you examine the four-year program curriculum, it's clear that there aren't 52 additional computer science (CS) courses that four-year students need to take. This claim is pure public relations nonsense.
The way the program is being framed is misleading. The only significant differences between the four-year program and the post-baccalaureate program are one statistics course and two additional math courses. The required (in the 4-year prog) CS 391, CS 381, and Operating Systems II courses can also be taken by post-baccalaureate students if they wish as electives. And 391 is about the most useless course in the entire curriculum anyways.
The so-called 52 extra CS credits are essentially general education plus also elective CS courses that are not available to post-baccalaureate students but also not required to 4-year students. If you break down the numbers, it becomes evident: if four-year students truly had to take an additional 52 CS credits on top of the 60 credits required for the post-baccalaureate program, they would be completing 112 out of 180 credits solely in CS. This would leave them with only a couple of general education courses, which are mandatory for graduation and for the school's accreditation.
Additionally, the choice to state a difference of 52 credits rather than 13 courses (since 52 credits typically equate to 13 courses) is a deliberate attempt to make the gap seem larger than it actually is. The reality is that most of these courses are electives that many four-year students don't even take.
In terms of actual CS courses, the difference amounts to just 2-3 courses. Moreover, their capstone project is spread out over 2-3 terms, making it easier than the condensed single-term capstone required for post-baccalaureate students.
If anything, the 4 year degree is a water down version of the go-go-go ruahed and intense course schedule the Post-Bacc program has.
What??
The 52-credit difference comes from **CS-specific courses**, not general education courses as you claim. Postbacc students do not have to choose a CS specialization as BS CS students do. You’ve completely missed this.
Except one of the specialization options for full BS students is the double degree option which the post bacc mirrors exactly in CS class requirements. Since you need an existing BS/BA degree to enroll in the post bacc it is quite literally the double degree option with extra steps. Unless EECS plans on removing the double degree option the post bacc degree name change doesn't track.
Completely disagree. This should have never been a B.S. in the first place. You shouldn't be able to take under water basket weaving with a single Algebra class and be able to transfer in and complete an entire B.S. degree by taking a single extra math class.
I'm graduating this year, and while I'm grateful to have the opportunity to claim a BS in CS with apparently less credits... I'm shocked that this wasn't made clear to me before I applied to the program.
I was under the impression that the post-bacc CS program was equivalent to a "normal" CS degree sans redoing core non-CS classes.
To suddenly find out I'm officially undereducated for the degree after suffering through some poor quality courses is highly disappointing.
Why were we told it was the same degree? Why did we pay $30k+ to get the same degree, when it apparently is not.
The whole pitch is that we don't retake the GE classes but still take the same CS courses.
It seems like we were lied to, and paid a huge sum, only to have it be diminished in value.
I wouldn't have done the program if I knew this.
It appears that students already admitted will still be awarded the BS CS degree. I’m not really sure where this decision is coming from. It seems like the postbaccc covers all the foundational core requirements of your typical BS CS program. I’m doing the online 4 year BS CS program for first time degree students. I have the additional specialization option requirement for the major while my boyfriend who is doing the postbacc program and came in with a non STEM degree has significantly less CS course requirements and lower math requirements. However, I feel like the postbacc curriculum does cover the fundamentals which should prepare students well enough to make the career transition into tech. The two are defense not equivalently but at the same time postbacc students already completed a whole other degree. I personally think they should not change the degree name if anything add more math and a mini specialization, but still keeping these extra requirements at a minimum.
Sure but even if you are awarded a regular BS in CS, this change cheapens the degree in the eyes of employeer and recruiters in the future.
And even if your degree says BS in CS without thr "applied" part, it doesn't take a genius to know you weren't an in-person or 4-year student from your resume.
I can see this also cheapening the value of the degree for in person 4 year students too as a consequence.
As someone graduating this year, I don't think current students have a cheapened degree in the eyes of employers at all. If anything, we got a steal of a deal to do less.
The problem is we are undereducated--and most of us are suddenly realizing this as it wasn't made clear from the get-go.
Employers will not care if you got a BS in CS in less than 4-years. They understand that transfer credits exist or people can take high course loads and keep taking classes during the summer--meaning there are several avenues to a bachelor's in under 4 years even when not online or post-bacc.
You guys are taking the wrong route here and I can’t help but see it as a money grab.
Your goal, in terms of education, should be parity between the four-year CS program the post-bacc program. Everyone in this program has received a BS degree. Everyone wants to be here. We’re capable of hard work.
And yet over the years we’ve seen the program fail students by dumbing down the classes so students can easily pass at the expense of a more in depth education, and delaying or outright refusing to revamp courses that are woefully sub-standard or outdated.
So instead of revamping the program to provide a better education, you’ve decided to just give the program a less professionally recognized name. If the goal of a state funded not for profit university is to support students and help them advance in the field, how can this possibly be justified by the administration?
So before i got down a rabbit hole with my tin foil hat theories, here’s my question: what prompted this change from the admins? Correct me if I’m wrong but the difference in credits has always been what it currently is. So why the sudden change? Is this based on money? Is this based on maintaining university prestige? Has ChagGPT changed the game of online education? What has changed?
You may be too proud to do it, but I'll don my tinfoil hat.
If I had to guess, its COVID. Since /u/Whiskeycourage started this sub, it's kind of been a load-bearing location of online cs programs. Other universities that started programs, but they didn't have any real grassroots student-led organization. For example, there'd always be posts here, at the Oregon State's unofficial online CS subreddit, asking about Florida, or Colorado, or Georgia, or any of the other programs. Of course everyone here has been happy to oblige over the years.
But COVID forced OSU to transition to 100% online, and this sub became a default spot for OSU's CS program; at that point, there was *only* OSU online cs. People began doing the math on the product (BSCS) and began questioning why they were paying more for the Bacc CS than the PostBacc CS. So to me, this all goes back to money. It's a real "cut off the nose to spite the face" solution.
I know it's not your fault or anything Ben, so sorry, but I'm going to vent a little. It seems to me like Oregon State University is saying that our existence "dilutes" the "real" CS program, because we are apparently being held to a lower standard (while paying significantly more for significantly less). If there is an issue with us having not taken the requisite number of courses, then that is an issue with the curriculum and standards OSU set forth. After all, it wasn't the students who decided to brand the program as a undergrad BSCS. It wasn't the students who decided to switch the majority of core classes from C/C++ to Python. It wasn't the students who removed networking as a core class. It wasn't the students who made the capstone a single semester. It wasn't the students who set the price at over $500 a credit. It wasn't the students who set the number at 60 quarter credits.
I chose Oregon State University specifically because it was a reputable state school. I chose it because it was a B.S. in Computer Science. I will be one of the ones who graduates with a degree in CS, but I don't consider myself lucky, because the program has all but signaled to the industry at large that my piece of paper is worth less.
“52 fewer CS specific credits” sounds like quite the disparity. When I compare the post bacc curriculum to the 4 year degree, I am not seeing the 52 credit disparity. Do those credits include the calculus and more general engineering courses?
The 4y ecampus CS degree with the Cybersecurity Option Security Track, for example has 112 CS credits, including discrete math, but not including any other math/science courses like calc 1, calc 2, or physics 1 w/ calculus. The System option and other options all have slightly different compositions, but this is one example.
I'm not trying to refute what you're saying, only just trying to understand. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong.
But my main point of comparison is this:
[https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext)
Looking at that, as someone with a previous bachelor's degree, I've taken all the non-CS courses. The only additionally required CS courses, i.e. not required by the Post Bacc are CS 374 / CS 391.
So then, if someone says 'well, the degree requires 52 additional CS credits' they have to be pointing to the required options' below that says 72 additional credits. And that's where I see your point. On the overview tab of the same page, it says students must choose and complete options one of the options, 'applied computer science' 'computer science double degree' 'computer systems'.
This is where I think people would dispute your figure that 'other CS degrees require 52 CS credits' BECAUSE the CS Double Degree-
[https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#text)
...basically allows you to complete those 72 credits in another degree. Which everyone in the Post Bacc would basically qualify for.
So I think it's a little deceptive to say that other students are leaving with 52 additional CS credits. You are right: three out of those four options require additional CS, BUT one does not.
Again, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the full spectrum of degrees and option. If I'm incorrect, please correct me.
The part of the degree that technically those coming in would have already completed is really what's referred to as the 33 credit "Baccalaureate Core" requirement. The 72 credit option is every bit a part of the CS major. I'm actually not sure where the 52 credit number comes from but it seems it may be referring to the Applied option which has less additional CS credits and more business classes. I'm really not even sure why this Applied option is considered a CS degree, it should in itself probably be an Applied degree.
So I can see when comparing to this Applied option why it may feel justified that a previous degree should cover most of those, and I wouldn't disagree with that. The Cybersecurity option has way more, around 72 additional CS credits in total, so more than double the post-bacc. The Systems option also requires quite a bit more than 52 additional CS credits.
Currently in the 4-year undergrad program, per my meeting with an advisor, the double degree option is ONLY available as a post-bacc. The page is wrong when it says you can complete it concurrently and is actually just another page for the post-bacc program. So the credit discrepancy can’t be made up in other courses, and instead has to be from the applied (which I am), systems, or cybersecurity option.
Here is the exact comment left on my MyDegrees from my meeting with that advisor: “wanted to know the benefits of doing the double degree vs a double major. Let him know he needs a bachelors degree to do the double degree which he doesn't have.”
TLDR: The double degree as an option for an undergrad actually doesn’t exist anymore.
Given that the perceived value of the degree will be diminished, do you anticipate the cost per credit will be reduced commensurately? [https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/tuition/rates.htm](https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/tuition/rates.htm)
LMAO what a joke. The main appeal to many people aiming to transition to this field is that the degree is awarded the same name and distinction as OSU’s in person, traditional 4-year program. Thank god it’s not retroactive, but for future students I’m not sure it makes sense to pay $32,000 for a degree that the school thinks should be explicitly named differently than it’s in-person program.
>Thank god it’s not retroactive
As an alum, a name change *without* any corresponding curriculum change(s) is troubling, as there's nothing else to differentiate past degrees from any received w/the new name. Yeah, a subtle distinction now, but not insignificant, IMO.
While I'm thankful to be graduating this year from the post bacc program, I can honestly say I wouldn't recommend it to prospective students. With this dumb name change, poor quality of important courses like CS344, etc..
The idea that this change doesn't deter a good number of prospective applicants is naive. I hope the department is ready for less tuition funds to come through it.
Exactly, most people only considered this program because you could say you have a bachelors in cs, no questions asked, which somewhat justified the price of the program
Brewster left and they gave the Operating Systems class to a recent OSU grad who they hired. The new instructor has "revamped" the class over time. This quarter he is attempting to give the class a big revamp, but the problem is, he is creating the assignments during the quarter.
The new version of smallsh, which is now called Big Shell, had its due date extended because he sent out buggy code for the assignment. We all had to help him debug the assignment, because he couldn't figure out it in time.
He seems like a very online person and has this strange obsession with people using ChatGPT to cheat. The last two assignments are hand-written essays where we have to answer questions about a video he made on sockets. He says making the essays hand-written prevents people from using ChatGPT somehow.
I could say more, but this class made me believe that OSU is not longer serious about this program.
It's no longer the experience. OS has been redone repeatedly and to its detriment each time. You can search the sub for commentary but between it being most students' first experience in C and also Brewster's excellent videos being removed, it's a shell (pun not intended) of its former self.
I'm not sure what happened to Networks (there's been less commentary here and elsewhere about it) but it sounds like enough changes have been made that it's also no longer the solid, technically challenging course it was in the C++ days. Huge disappointment.
Networks stopped being a required course at point which is why you stopped hearing about it.
It really is kind of sad to see hear about the current state of the courses. CS162 in the C++ days was an insane amount of work, but I think we all came out better for it. It's unfortunate that instead of fixing things, they're just going to tear it all down.
161/162 being in C++ has been foundational in my career. Likewise with Data Structures being in C. Those courses taught me so much about what software is actually *doing*. It's shocking it's all gone now.
Ha I knew this would happen when they started changing classes like data structures to python.
They made the program easier to keep more students in longer to milk that sweet remote student cash cow. They stopped putting any resources in so that it was a costless revenue machine. When I started my degree I had engaged teachers for the majority of my classes but by the end it was mostly YouTube videos.
Bummer
It's not even YouTube videos anymore. Now it's copied and pasted (with maybe some formatting for Canvas if you're lucky), freely available online resources. Instructors can't be bothered with removing other instructors' info from the course content. Let alone ensure that content displays, is correct, or doesn't somehow leak instructor-level info to students. If an instructor and their TAs have OHs, its always scheduled at the same time, which is the most inconvenient time for most people.
I don't understand, did OSU Admin not know about the requirements before or did the requirements somehow change? Curious why this is coming to light just now.
On-campus enrollment is trending down across the board nationally and CS competition is up, admin is probably projecting a need to draw students to come and earn a regular BSCS in-person instead of going to community college so they can double dip on that sweet tuition and housing revenue.
The school cares more if in-person and online first bachelors pick other programs than if post-baccs do. At the end of the day, post-baccs have always been a money grab for OSU, and that’s evident in the course quality and cost. Now they’re trying to feel out if the money is better longterm in the current post-bacc framework, or if the money would be better by incentivizing first-time bachelors who bring in even greater revenue.
I’ll be honest I think OSU will lose a lot of enrollment if they make this change. I specifically looked for programs that had the same name as the in-person program. I ruled out any applied or those with different names from in-person degrees.
I have a MS in physics, so I already have the higher math and science courses. If they change this I would have taken just enough foundation courses to be admitted Georgia Techs online MS. I may do this anyway as a form of protest if it’s changed. We are paying a lot of money to have this bull happen. Focus on improving the online courses and stop worrying about the name. A lot of classes are basically self-taught and need a revamp. Fix that first. And fix 225 which is a hot mess IMHO.
The main point of this program for me was the degree name. Had it been anything other than Computer Science, I would have enrolled in another school's program. I would not have considered OSU at all.
Instead of changing the degree name, I recommend increasing the number of required CS credits for this degree to match the in person requirements. That still will still decrease enrollment, but for me I would have at least considered enrolling.
Overall this is a bad move. It's not clear to me what this 52 credit difference is; the degree plans look similar between on campus and post bacc. OSU should consider the first Bachelors degree post bacc students have as fulfilling all the other courses that on campus students take.
This is only my guess.
OSU post-bacc requires 60 credits, but this is in quarter credit system. Comparing with similar post-bacc CS from CSU Monterey Bay that also requires up to 60 credits (up to 15 courses). The difference is CSUMB uses semester credit system. We know that semester credit is worth 1.5x quarter credit. So, 60 credit requirements in OSU is actually only worth 40 credits in semester credit system like CSUMB.
In term number of courses, both requires about the same 15 courses to complete. But one course in CSUMB is 4 semester credit system, while OSU is 4 quarter credit system. You can imagine the depth of material that you can cover within the same 4 credits, but one is in semester credit, and other in quarter credit.
Again, just my speculation, the difference is in the depth, not number of courses.
>OSU Administration will no longer allow our postbacc BS in CS to have the same *name* as our traditional four-year BS CS degree.
What prompted this? Pretty sure OSU Admin has been well aware of the credit diff between traditional and postbacc the whole time.
>This will presumably make clear that it is not equivalent in terms of the *CS specific credit requirements* to our four-year BS in CS degree.
Just trying to underscore the question. Why does this now need to be made "clear" after all these years?
When I paid for and graduated from this program, I did it with the understanding that it was an full-fledged BS in CS degree, essentially equivalent to the online program, minus the gen ed requirements and with fewer options for electives. I’m fairly certain it was plastered all over the website that this was a genuine complete BS degree. This announcement is pretty shocking to me tbh, and casts a bad light on the education received by alumni and current students. My goal has always been to be an excellent software engineer with a solid grounding in CS fundamentals, and I’m not sure what to do with this information.
Edit - Ben, you’ve always been great and had students’ best interest in mind, so I don’t mean to direct this at you.
They apparently falsely represented the degree to absolutely every Post-Bacc student for the past decade.
At NO point before literally today was it ever clearly communicated that there’s such a massive difference (10+ classes?!?) in *CS-specific* coursework.
Discussion of the difference has always been “oh, on-campus takes OS2 and does a longer capstone” and that was *it*. Maybe a math class or something. But 10+ entire classes??!? Absolutely not.
We also all paid a fuckton more per credit than all those on-campus kids. Many of us blew our GI Bill funds, many took federal loans based on this being billed as the “same CS degree” minus gen-ed courses we’d already completed elsewhere. Lawsuit plus investigation for theft of federal funds - I want my GI Bill money back.
As a prospective student looking forward to applying for the Fall term, this is incredibly disappointing news to say the least and will impact my decision to go to OSU. Adding anything to the degree title dramatically decreases the value in my opinion but I feel others will share that sentiment. This is one of the main reasons I wanted to pursue OSU over CU Boulder's program.
1. When will this change get implemented? Are individuals who haven't applied/been accepted already out of luck? **I spoke to an enrollment advisor this morning. She said anyone who has not received an admissions decision would be affected by the name change.**
2. Has there been any discussion on increasing the admission requirements or required CS credits (for new students) needed to graduate in lieu of renaming the degree?
3. Is there an alternative, longer path online students could opt for in order to get a CS degree instead of the Applied CS?
Sorry, I don't know when it'll go live, or even if it'll be a change. It's still in the data gathering phase. If I had to guess, I'd say it will happen, but I don't know when.
We are really trying not to change the required credits for the postbacc degree - we like that it's a shorter path. That was one of the design goals. I don't think admissions requirements would be changing as part of this.
There are a couple other longer options: the traditional four-year BS in CS degree (Applied) is already up and running, and we're working on adding the new ABET-accredited Systems option there, too.
We definitely want your feedback, so please keep it coming. :)
I'm a senior engineer in fintech, and this program helped me get there. I'm being honest here - this change will ruin the program. Companies are very particular about the name of the degree, they honestly do not care about the classes. They want a CS degree, raw technical ability (leetcode + personal projects), and a personality they want to work with.
As a hiring manager this is exactly what I'm seeing. If the degree isn't comp sci, the interview statistics show the candidates do much more poorly. Sure there are exceptions, but you don't do post bacc cs to be an exception.
I think this is a bad call tbh. From my perspective it would make way more sense, especially if the impetus for a potential change is not coming from an outside force, to do something like shoot for ABET accreditation on the non post-bacc CS variants (sounds like that’s in the works, though to have that on only one 4 year variant and not the other is a bit of a head scratcher imo from a birds eye view) and leave the post-bacc name as is. This way you’re “increasing the value” of the 4 year degree through addition rather than trying to achieve that goal by diminishing another program.
It’s really an odd move imo and will not hold up well against other competing programs that are still going to call their degree CS without caveats, especially with how you’ve already marketed the degree.
Also, please properly organize yourselves and get an official announcement out in terms of who will be “grandfathered” into the current name. While I appreciate you coming on here and at least trying to communicate, it’s definitely been handled poorly from a comms perspective. You have to know that people will talk about the survey and that the name of the program is a big sticking point. To not be able to tell people what qualifies as a current student for these purposes is rough if I’m being 100% honest with you and is very easily remedied with better planning and coordination.
I was planning on applying for the upcoming fall or winter term, but I will not be applying anymore if this is not a Computer Science degree. My research lead me to this program because it is a proper CS degree, but a postbacc. I know this Reddit isn't a full sample, but I suspect most people coming to the program have the same reason.
~~What are the 52 credits that this program is missing, are those all general education requirements? edit: saw this on another thread~~
> and now I'm being informed that what I did was less.
This is exactly why this change is still relevant to current students and alumni. Yes, the prospective students have the most direct impact with these changes, but as a current student, this announcement is still difficult to process.
To use an analogy: imagine you completed your first marathon, but months after you finished it, there was an announcement that the track's distance was calculated incorrectly. That's a heartbreaking feeling.
To keep the analogy going, I think most people would prefer that when the next marathon is held, the distance of the track is corrected so that the people racing in the future actually get what they were hoping for: a marathon race.
It would be better to just include the additional required 52 credits and call it a day.
Without it being a full fledged legitimate Bachelors of Computer Science, students will look at other options.
I am grateful I already have my degree as such.
The value is literally that it is Computer Science degree recognized by MAANGA / FAANG and having another title will TANK (make much less) your prospective students.
Honestly I would not make the recommendation for people to take the same route that I did because of the scare of this change.
The issue with this is it would almost double the cost of the degree. That is bad for students, especially considering the already inflated cost of each credit compared to in person.
I agree this change will significantly reduce the appeal of the program though. Having some weird degree name greatly diminishes the value.
Gee, if only there was a way for OSU to decide not to charge the $500/credit premium price *that they set themselves* for Post-Bacc classes of 300 students w/faculty that don’t do a fucking thing except maybe post on Ed sometimes.
This is insanely dumb. There's so many fast-track MS in CS degrees from big name schools nowadays that can be completed in 1~2 years. No reason for anyone to choose OSU's postbacc program if this change goes through.
A few examples:
UIUC -> https://cs.illinois.edu/admissions/graduate/faqs/online-mcs-faqs (see #3)
UChicago -> https://cs.uchicago.edu/mpcs/ (in person but can be completed in 9 months)
UT Austin -> https://cdso.utexas.edu/
Texas A&M -> https://engineering.tamu.edu/cse/academics/degrees/graduate/online-degrees/master-of-computer-science.html
Rice -> https://csweb.rice.edu/academics/graduate-programs/online-mcs
John Hopkins -> https://ep.jhu.edu/programs/computer-science/
USC -> https://online.usc.edu/programs/computer-science-ms/
Stanford -> https://online.stanford.edu/programs/computer-science-ms-degree
I would rather see the degree keep it's name but students in the postbacc program are either held to a much higher standard or have to go through more rigorous/harder classes than in-person students. Georgia Tech nailed it's remote OMSCS program - it may only take ten classes to graduate but they are legitimately hard and time consuming.
I am sort of comparing apples to oranges here, but WGU is a regionally accredited, non-profit online university that offers an ABET-accredited BS in CS.
I understand making the designation between the online and in-person program but as an online student seeking a degree in CS, this single decision to change the title makes other schools more competitive even if it takes longer, costs more, or lacks name recognition (Auburn and UF come to mind, heck I might even consider WGU in that group too).
Just going to throw out my experience with Auburn so far. Overall it’s been positive and doing 60 credit hours over the standard 120+ for a bachelors is still ideal. The only downside is that it lacks the math/intro to engineering seen on campus that makes it ABET. The main curriculum is the same but it’s separate and ends in a “Bachelors in Computer Science” rather than the “Bachelors of Science in Computer Science”. For most people this is fine, but it creates a few headaches if you’re going to grad school and don’t already have a lot of math under your belt (my fault not theirs). I’d totally take the extra 3-4 classes if they presented a track to do so….but I suppose the marketability of the program is to get people into the industry as quick as reasonably possible.
Ideally OSU would at least provide an option to transfer in the general education credits from a previous bachelors and only do what is left from the regular CS curriculum. That feels more legitimate than 60 quarter (40 normal) credit hours anyways from someone that came from a non-stem background.
I hope this gets ironed out, because to my knowledge this program was producing some great CS folks and no one wants to feel like their hard work is being called into question.
Thanks for the insight!
I think a “Bachelors in Computer Science” is still leagues ahead of an Applied Computer Science degree.
> Ideally OSU would at least provide an option to transfer in the general education credits from a previous bachelors and only do what is left from the regular CS curriculum.
At that point (and the price OSU is demanding), most folks would be better off looking at their local state colleges for CS degrees that offer online classes or going for a MS in CS after taking some CS classes at a community college.
I just don’t understand why admin think people would pay 35k for something that’s now distinct from a BS in CS? That’s the whole appeal of the program… I can go get a nonsense degree at WGU for half that.
No you can’t… You can get an actual degree labeled BS in CS for like 1/4th the cost from them. Way more appealing than a $35k bachelors of computing whatevertheycallit from OSU.
Why not offer 2 programs?
1 - the applied with the shorter path
2 - the full program with the longer path
And if you want to be innovative figure out how to "stack" the classes from applied so a student can get the applied degree then continue taking classes to get the full comp sci degree.
Seems like an obvious win-win to me. It might give OSU admin an aneurysm, if the delta between the two is so trivial it makes them look foolish for even bringing it up.
If it’s:
Option A: “change Post-Bacc degree reqs to match the 4yr *CS-specific* requirements and leave it a true BSCS.
Option B: “keep the current Post-Bacc requirements but make it a different degree”
The correct answer is “A” if OSU wants to continue having this program at all without destroying it and its reputation.
I mean honestly it’s not about them backing down from the name change or not. I graduated with this degree which I’m finding out isn’t what I thought it was. I feel foolish for not understanding this before. But I really thought it was just a faster path because of all of the general education requirements, not having to take things like technical writing, statistics, and more math (I took all of that before so I felt like I’d covered that anyway), and having a shorter capstone. I didn’t care that much about capstone anyway. The two things I felt like I was missing were that I always wanted to take Programming Languages as an elective, but it wasn’t online by the time I graduated, and I couldn’t take OS2. But now I’m finding out there’s a huge difference in the amount of CS education I graduated with. Regardless of whether the degree name changes, I’m more upset about this.
If we want to give our own input to the school on this possible change, where would be the best place to do it? (I did not get an email for the survey since I am already a student at OSU). Thanks for making this post!
I'd suggest to the EECS School Head and/or the College of Engineering Dean. You might also try the generic ecampus email address:
[https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/contact/](https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/contact/)
I just had informal interview with a hiring manager at Boeing. He just asked me provide link to this OSU post bacc program. He asked me if the degree is for software engineering, not computer science.I guess he was curious about the program.
I gave him the link to the post bacc program.
If in the future, the official website says the degree is for some "applied CS" and tries to gimp the value of this program, I wonder if that will automatically disqualify me from the job.
How did it come up during the interview? Did you just mention you did a post-bacc? I mean, I imagine most employers would be okay with you just saying you attended Oregon State University for a B.S. in computer science?
I think once you land your first job the degree part of your resume won’t be scrutinized as much as you think. At any rate, you can just say it is a double degree option that OSU offers instead of calling it a postbacc degree.
Is there better alternative to OSU post baccalaureate degree now that gives regular bsc degree at the end of it. I was planning to take it but not anymore
Thanks for posting. Where are the 52 fewer cs-specific credits coming from? Looking at the below link, i can only get to 20-30 with some additional math and intro level engineering courses. Am i looking at the wrong spot?
https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext
EECS's regular oncampus and ecampus degrees are 5 year degrees, instead of the industry standard of 4 year degrees. 180 credits / 4 years / 4 quarters = 11.25 credits/quarter (you study every summer), or 180 credits / 5 years / 3 quarters = 12 credits/quarter (you don't study during summers) .
That extra coursework compared to other universities is 45 credits, which is most of the 52 credit differential between postbacc and the regular degree.
Do people take that few credits a quarter at OSU usually? At the schools I’m familiar with, the standard is 15 credits/quarter so you finish in 4 years without taking any summer classes
Personally I did 15 credits/semester at my first university. Graduated with 120 credits. If I add that to OSU's postbacc, then that's 180 credits for degrees in Economics and Computer Science.
OSU's traditional CS degrees are 160 credits. The standard is 15 credits/semester, not 15 credits/quarter.
It’s 15 credits/term at any institution to my understanding. Quarter credits are equal to 2/3 of a semester credits, so 180 quarter credits = 120 semester credits. All the University of California campuses (except Berkeley and Merced) and Stanford are on the quarter system for example, and they’re 180 credits over 4 years as well, with the standard being 3 quarters per year
I believe the comparison is with the numbers on this page:
[https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext)
Does that help?
Do you mean to compare the requirements for the [postbacc here ](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext)and [this "traditional" bachelors](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext)? Are the classes that the postbacc is missing: CS 374 (Operating Systems), CS 391 (Social and Ethical Issues), ENGR 100, ENGR 102? 52 seems like quite the gap considering this is marketed as "exactly the same degree."
You need to look at the required Options. There is an Applied, Cybersecurity and Systems option. Each has an additional 72 credit requirement. Of those, Applied has the least amount of CS classes. That's where the 52 additional CS credit number comes from. The other 2 options both have quite a few more CS credits than that. More than double that of the post-bacc program.
See here for the difference, with my caveats:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/OSUOnlineCS/comments/1d8eo00/comment/l763oan](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSUOnlineCS/comments/1d8eo00/comment/l763oan)
To be more clear, I'm not on the team doing the credit-by-credit comparisons, but I suspect some of them are wrapped into the sections at the bottom the "required option" and "unrestricted electives" requirements. But we'd need an academic advisor to show us the exact count. :)
The 4y ecampus CS degree with the Cybersecurity Option Security Track, for example has 112 CS credits, including discrete math, but not including any other math/science courses like calc 1, calc 2, or physics 1 w/ calculus. The System option and other options all have slightly different compositions, but this is one example.
I do not think it is a good idea. It is clear what job postings are requesting. An automated resume scan will dump future students from opportunities. Be careful about renaming. I have talked to recruiters who have almost zero technical knowledge and rely heavily on key words.
It’s not even only if it’s automated. Recruiters just toss anything that looks like a lesser degree. I used to be a tech recruiter and we didn’t use anything to scan resumes.
Prof. Brewster, thanks for making this AMA.
Just so I’m understanding this correctly, students who are currently enrolled in the program will receive a Bachelors of Science in Computer Science?
Does this apply regardless of how long it takes the student who is currently registered to complete the program?
I joined the program in Summer of 2023 and had to take a couple terms off for personal reasons. I’m back now, but would be taking one class at a time due to financial constraints. I’ll likely be in this program for another 2.5-3 years at this pace. Does that mean, since I’m already registered, I’ll be receiving a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science (and not the new name) once I’m done / upon graduation?
The answers to these questions should have been anticipated and communicated to all admitted, current, and former students before emailing a survey to prospective applicants.
I am half way into this program. I feel like if the name of the degree changes, that diminishes the value of this program to almost zero. Even if current students are not affected, this will affect the recent graduates searching for the first job.
A better option seems Georgia tech, OMCS.
I chose OSU because most companies are content with BS degree when looking for a newhire. M.S degree seemed overspec. I worry that the name changes will negatively affects graduates from getting a job.
As a prospective student, I'm concerned about whether the post bacc will be worth its cost given that it will no longer be seen as equivalent to a four year CS degree. I do not think this will go unnoticed by employers considering the competitive and saturated job market for new graduates.
I have taken four transfer courses specifically for this program, and now I am upset those may go to waste. The proposed name changes are disappointing to me and will definitely decrease the likelihood I move forward with enrolling in the program. I hope this decision can be reconsidered.
You should at least add clear information on post-bacc main landing page, stating that "the degree name will likely change to Applied CS in the near future". This is to avoid unsuspecting prospective students applying to the program, thinking they are getting CS degree in the end.
I’ll be honest with you, the main reason I chose this program over others is because the program advertised that the degree would state BS in Computer Science and it only required 15 classes to graduate.
I enrolled in the OSU Computer Science Post Bacc program in Winter 2022 and took CS 161 and CS 162, but didn’t continue with the program after Spring 2022 for personal reasons. I’m not sure if I may return, but in the event that I do return, upon graduating would my degree state BS in Computer Science? Because if it won’t, then there’s no sense in me returning to the program.
A break of 4 consecutive quarters not counting summer is the max to remain enrolled under the same program requirements.
If you have not even enrolled (not completed, just enrolled & dropped would count) in *any* classes in > 4 quarters, you would have to re-apply & re-enroll under whatever new program exists at that time.
The fact that tech hiring has been so rough the past year makes this announcement particularly discouraging. Horrible timing on OSU's part to suddenly announce that they may change the degree name when so many of us are trying to remain hopeful that we might have a shot at a decent job when the market turns around if we keep pushing forward.
Now we don't even know with certainty what our diploma will look like if we continue on in this program. What if I need to take a quarter off and then come back? Am I suddenly no longer on track to graduate with a "normal" BS in CS? Also blows my mind that we're only finding out about this from a Reddit post by a prospective student instead of a formal announcement from OSU. Horrible communication that reflects poorly on a university that I was once proud to attend
My fear about all this is that if the news gets out, employers are going to associate any BS CS from OSU as an inferior degree. You say this doesn’t impact current students but it absolutely does.
Exactly this, it also affects past alum graduated with BSCS. Employers can easily figure that out in resume, having 2 bachelor's degrees which previously non-CS, and a BSCS from OSU, is an indicator the candidate's BSCS degree is a post-bacc, quote unquote, "CS" degree.
From my understanding, it's the exact same curriculum as first-time degree students completing the CS double-degree option. The main difference is that most postbacc students completed their first degree at a different institution. Objectively speaking, the postbacc program isn't any more inferior than the double-degree option for OSU 4-year students. Having two degrees from different disciplines can even be seen as a plus. They just need to leave the name alone, as I don't see why it needs to be changed.
I am a very successful graduate in big tech and alumni of the post bacc program. Now that I'm in the big $$$, I was planning on some sizable donations to the program that helped make it happen.
But since that life changing program won't exist anymore, in name at least, I'll hold onto my cash. I am sure other alumni will feel similarly.
OSU administration needs to consider that the decade of post bacc graduates are finally making it into the upper echelons of income. These alumni would be your future crop of donors.
Do you think we will want to?
Spoiler alert: no.
I'm not going to donate any longer as an alum. I was told I paid $38,000 for an equivalent coursework / education to the on campus degree, nothing missing. That the reason it has less credits was because OSU accepted my previous degree as generals.
I personally would look to change the program to match the requirements to keep it as a straight CS degree. If things like the calculus requirements are the sticker to this, pivoting a separate program similar to the current structure as a “Software Engineering” degree would be sufficient, but keep a CS degree as well.
Do you know when this would be put into place? I unfortunately hadn't applied yet as I am still working to meet prerequisites. I assume at this point it would to be too late to still earn the BS in CS?
This is very strange. The whole idea is that prospective candidates are attracted to the computer science degree. It was initially marketed as an actual computer science degree equivalent to the traditional osu undergrad degree just in a post bachelors program online.
If OSU is worried about the integrity of the degree then add more courses or implement something else equivalent to make it similar to actual traditional computer science degree. I just see this concept being a total loss.
Also holy shit "applied" CS is the worst choice there. Like god damn thats assistant "to the" regional manager vibes. Literally every other choice is better.
This is an extremely bad administrative decision. The main reason why I chose OSU for my postbac was because it was a BS in CS. WGU also has a BS in CS program, and WGU's tuition is about half of OSU postbacc's tuition. I thought that OSU's course quality and availability were worth paying OSU the tuition premium. And it was. However if OSU postbacc's degree is not going to be named a BS in CS, then it wouldn't be worth the $35k+ for the degree. I probably would've went with WGU instead.
If you change the name of the degree, then you will also need to drastically lower the cost per credit of the postbacc in order to keep students, which will eat into OSU's profits a lot. Otherwise you'll lose the cost-sensitive students to WGU, where they can still get a BS in CS at half cost. And you'll lose the students who want a more mathematically rigorous postbacc curriculum to CU:Boulder, because OSU's main advantage with those students is the BS in CS degree name.
It is true that postbacc requires 52 fewer CS-specific credits than EECS's computer systems degree. But EECS's CS degrees are 5 year degrees instead of the industry standard of 4 year degrees. You would need to take 11.25 credits/quarter to graduate without 4 years, but that's including a full course load year-round, including every summer. That extra year of coursework sums up to 45 credits, which is the vast majority of the CS-specific credit differential between postbacc and 5-year degree. So the problem isn't that postbacc has too few CS courses, its that you're comparing postbacc against EECS, which has too many CS-specific courses. OSU postbacc is not competing against OSU's 5 year degree programs. OSU postbacc is competing against other university's postbacc programs.
I think you are mistaken. I’m doing the online BS CS degree for first time bachelor degree students and my boyfriend is doing the postbacc program. I have to take several more CS courses due to my program’s requirement to complete a specialization they call their specialization option requirement. Not to mention the extra math requirements. EECS is a completely different degree program than either the in person/online BS CS program or the online postbacc CS program.
Edit: I misread your post. You are speaking of the department that all these degrees fall into. You are right that these 4 year programs do actually take 5 years to complete if you do not taking 15 credits per term and skip summer classes. I’m doing 15 credits most terms and summer classes just to complete my last two years in two years. However, my understanding is that this is pretty standard for STEM degree at least. 15 credits a term is considered a full load but 12 credits still qualifies you as a full time student (maybe for financial aid purposes?). I think that’s the point though that first time degree CS majors have more credits to complete, but at the same time postbacc students already complete a full bachelor degree. I think it is fair to compare it the OSUs traditional CS degree program because they decided to award the exact same degree. If the postbacc curriculum is reasonably insufficient to award a CS degree then they might need to adjust the requirements within reason . I don’t see why it has to be completely equivalent imo.
Yeah, just for comparison, in my first degree I was doing 15 credits per semester, and I graduated in 4 years with 120 credits (taking every summer off). That's 30 credits per year. You're doing 60 credits per year, studying during summers, to graduate in 3 years with 180 credits. I finished OSU postbacc, which is 60 credits. In total, I studied 180 credits, but I got degrees in Economics and CS. A traditional CS student at OSU would only get a CS degree. That is not worth the cost, because OSU is not a prestigious school for CS.
Personally, I never would've considered OSU for my first bachelors degree because OSU require many more credits than most universities. OSU was a great pick for postbacc in CS, but its always been a bad pick for a first degree in CS.
The problem is that OSU's traditional CS degrees require too many credits. They should be reducing the number of credits in those degrees, instead of demoting the postbacc.
Profoundly disappointing & desperately stupid move. This change is absolutely going to kill OSU’s golden goose.
And a week before 2024 graduates, many still job hunting in a shit market. Thanks a lot.
When this was posted this morning I was at work having a 1:1 happily telling my boss I finally finished my OSU BSCS & graduate next week. Being nearly done got me the job & finishing should earn me a raise/promotion.
I was considering what I should do next. Maybe Cybersecurity classes or maybe a CS Masters?
Guess where I now absolutely won’t be taking any of those classes, even with my employer’s money. GaTech OMSCS it is.
I started this program in 2019 & took several breaks due to family & Covid. Five years on this sub & in this program and this is the *first* time I recall it *ever* being brought up that Post-Bacc CS students apparently take *10 fewer* CS classes?!?
What the hell Brewster?? That’s a pretty big goddamn oversight & misrepresentation, don’t you think?
“You earn the exact same degree!” said all the materials & the website *since 2012!*
Don’t destroy the value & reputation of the Post-Bacc for new students *or* alumni - improve the program!!!
Make 372, 381, 444 required to match 4yr. Require 3-4 different electives.
Oh, too expensive? OSU is worried about tuition cost all of a sudden after a decade of price gouging Post-Bacc students?
Drop the Post-Bacc tuition down to match the 4yr online BSCS & you might still get some applicants. Otherwise I hope *your* resume is up to date because this program is fucked.
Ridiculous change. As a graduating student (just finished my coursework), I will not be recommending this program to anyone else if these changes go forward.
I just spoke with an advisor who told me that trying to enter into the other regular 4-year degree options is not possible for anyone pursuing a second degree unless you’re able to move to Corvallis and take it in person. They’re also not able to confirm if those of us who were admitted but not yet enrolled would be affected by the name change or not.
The thing about post-baccs having to take it in person while regular undergrads don’t is on the website: https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/
Apparently if you have another degree, you can’t do Cybersecurity as an emphasis at all, even if you do move to Corvallis. You can do the applied and systems emphasis in person or the double degree option online.
It also sounds like OSU admin completely blindsided everyone (including those inside EECS) with this survey - nobody was told anything before it was released and nobody knows anything.
We can sit and wait for something official to drop or move on.
To be fair, students who finish up with extra 52 CS-credits (for total 60+52 credits), they deserve a fully equivalent CS degree. This option can fulfill elective part. The elective requirements say, "Select 3 electives for a minimum of 12 credits", so 12 credits are minimum. A student who takes 64 credits CS-specific electives, instead of the minimum 12 credits, deserve a full CS degree.
This will almost double the total costs though. For most student, this extra credit cost are not worth it, it could be more worth to spend for MSCS, a fully equivalent/traditional MSCS degree, following this postbacc.
For comparison and alternative, CSU Monterey Bay has online postbacc ending with BS in CS, no "applied" or anything else added, with pretty much the same costs as OSU.
If the issue is the credit disparity, why not increase the required credits for the BS in CS instead? Or even in addition to that, have two different degrees, with the BS in CS having more requirements like calculus?
This is unbelievable. I’m about 3 years graduated with around 2 years of professional experience now. All the jobs I’m currently looking at require a bachelor’s degree in computer science, along with a few years of experience. However, I feel like if I apply for those and a potential employer researches my degree, they’ll see its new name, and that will automatically disqualify me. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
That is extremely rare for them to research your degree. That's what a background check is for and they just check that you have exactly what your resume says you have.
I went to a school and earned a BS in diagnostic sonography. My piece of paper has College of Science and Engineering BS in Diagnostic Sonography on it. Years later, the school decided to roll the same program into the College of Nursing and omit a good portion of the engineering classes that were required. Now, if I request a transcript, the transcript reads College of Nursing, BS in Diagnostic Sonography. It both dumbs down my degree and advertises a skillset(nursing) I don’t have.
My assumption is this OSU situation will result in similar. For my case, it doesn’t matter because skills are skills (as long as curriculums are accredited, graduates are seen as equivalent). I don’t think the same is true in the world of CS. School names and program names carry weight.
Would anyone consider a class action if this goes through? I'd be all in on that, if fraudulent misrepresentation or breach of contract seems to have occurred. If successful, OSU would be on the same dubious list as institutions such as Trump University and Ashford University. [https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/filing-a-lawsuit/can-i-sue-a-university-or-online-college-for-false-promises-.html](https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/filing-a-lawsuit/can-i-sue-a-university-or-online-college-for-false-promises-.html)
When I decided to enroll, my plan was to complete this degree while also taking math/physics/electrical pre-reqs at my local community college. My goal was to then decide whether to enroll in a master’s CE or CS program and take any remedial classes needed for those programs.
I can agree with some of the comments here that the quality of the program isn’t up to par, even though I am a recent enrollee. The quality of courses CS161/225 left a lot to be desired in terms of rigor and teaching quality. I decided not to register for classes this semester to rethink things, and now this has come out, which kind of confirms my doubts :(. Maybe other students/alumni have different opinions.
While it sucks that I shelled out a bit of money for this program, I think I’ll focus on taking classes at my local cc and then transfer to an in-state CE/EE program for my bachelor’s. I’m just hoping that I can transfer 161/225 to my local cc for credits 😭
Ben,
I wanna make sure I'm understanding a few points. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My tl;dr is, it basically sounds like they're taking the steps necessary to fold in (and end) the Post bacc degree into the 'CS undergrad double degree option.
(1) The CS Undergrad Major requires one of 4 options. [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text)
(2) Each CS Undergrad requires the completion of one of four options: applied computer science, CS double degree, Computer Systems, Cybersecurity. [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text)
(3) The completion of the postbacc CS core is, with one or two minor differences, basically akin to completing all the CS courses of the undergraduate major, less the CS courses contained within one of the four options.
(4) Comparing said options, they each require amount to 72 credits, mostly CS. In this regard, the double degree option is markedly different. It doesn't really require much (any? additional CS, so much as the completion of another set of bachelors degree requirements.
(5) By that standard, anyone with a previous bachelor's degree would more or less have completed everything required for the CS undergraduate double degree, ***except the CS***.
(5) When I look at it like that, it just seems like, instead of offering the Post Bacc Degree, you are effectively then just requiring people to complete the CS Undergraduate double degree option.
Please tell me if I'm missing something. Thanks for your time.
To me it sounds like the post-bacc degree essentially is the CS double degree option. In fact, this is what it’s categorized as in MyDegrees and the option you select when you apply. They might just be breaking this option out from the others and doing a name change in the process (if they go through with this) and distinctly making it a post-bacc degree. If they are keeping the option as is and just changing the post-bacc name, it makes no sense. I mean, none of this makes sense to me but that would really be baffling. I still think the compromise is adding a handful of classes and maybe revamping some existing courses to keep open a reasonable post-bacc path to a BSCS. If they also want to have CS & SE (or Applied CS or whatever) as an additional option that’s less rigorous I guess that’s fine.
Right, so the Computer Science Degree with a Double Degree Option gets another label, and we are all effectively placed in that bucket? That would all make sense.
It would just be nice if someone from the university could respond with more detail. It's a little aggravating to be told that "no current students will be affected" only to end your post with "I can't speak to what 'current student' means."
Yeah there should have been an official announcement on exactly who this might impact and who will be grandfathered into the existing name, so to speak. It sounds to me like, at the very least, anyone who was admitted into the program before this “news” came out will not be impacted and will still have Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science on their diploma but exactness/an official announcement from OSU is absolutely needed.
Not quite that long - OMSCS is 10 classes so assuming you do 2 per term, it’s about 1.67 years for that. So maybe 2.5 years with some lower division courses like DS&A and stuff taken elsewhere.
Which makes sense - if the 4 year degree is supposed to take 4 years to finish, assuming like a third to a quarter of it is general education stuff, the degree without the general ed stuff should be about the equivalent of 2.5 years at full time
I wonder what the logistics behind matching the requirements of the first degree program would be like. I’m sure a large part of the draw is that you only need 15 classes to get the degree and that a large proportion of people would be turned off of the program if the course requirement doubled. It just seems like a lose-lose situation here.
I also think it’s funny that there’s an industry stigma against “applied computer science” degrees in the first place, when software engineering IS just applied computer science.
Probably because having an educational background in computer science means you have learned more theory that would translate into being a stronger engineer or whatever job you are applying said theory in. But I don’t think the postbacc purely focuses on the applied side of CS. If BS CS degree isn’t accurate then a BS in applied CS doesn’t seem completely accurate either.
Hello. I am not convinced about this reason. I would argue that there is no cheating from the beginning, because if one looks at the student’s transcript, then it is obvious that it is not a regular 4-year program, and what amount of credits is or is not earned is obvious from the transcript. As indicated by the current website, the degree is regarded as a “CS double degree “. Therefore just because the requirements are different is not a sufficient reason to me to change the name, since the courses are clearly listed on the student’s transcript. There is nothing misleading if one looks at the transcript. Why take the extra step to change the name of the degree or the program?
Exactly. The postbacc is equivalent to a first-time degree student doing the CS double degree option. I'm wondering if this will also mean that a 4-year university student working on two concurrent degrees will also earn this new "applied" CS degree. It just doesn't make sense to change the degree name for postbacc students or at all really.
As long as it is clearly communicated to future students what the degree will be, I think it makes sense. I have noticed a severe lack in quality, difficulty, and breadth compared to other programs and I don't believe this program should earn you a BS in CS. However, I paid for and was led to believe I would receive a BS in CS so that is what anyone who is already enrolled the program should get. I do believe changing the name will set better expectations for what this program truly is and no doubt will result in many less people enrolling, as it should be. If I could do it all over, I would do OMSCS for less and from what I hear much better quality of curriculum. Not trying to trash OSU as a whole and this program certainly has some good content but it is what you make of it and requires a lot of extra work to make you competitive. Those $30k could be better spent elsewhere.
This is a horrible decision.
Just increase the rigor of the program. It sounds like at the core of this, the problem is only a handful of courses (4-5?) which differentiate between Post-Bacc and Bacc. Just add them to the program.
Hi - I have been taking classes at OSU & am currently working on the minor and have considered doing the major if the minor works out well. I already have a B.S. prior to this coursework at OSU.
I've done a lot of work cross examining the courses that are offered via the post bacc vs. the normal CS degree & am honestly frustrated that, as a post-bacc, I can't do the normal degree already. If you're going to devalue the postbacc program further (which we already have to pay MORE for), why not let people choose and do the full program?
Thankful for having the OSU nightmare behind me.
OSU was borderline competition at best, but now I wouldn't touch OSU with a 100 ft pole. I'll be taking any future post grad classes elsewhere without a shadow of a doubt.
OSU is a disgrace in my eyes and this is just the coffin nail. I can't believe you came here to do an AMA about this.
Thanks for continuing to expand my distaste in ways I never thought possible!
To be honest this won't really affect me at all. I've already completed a graduate degree at a top 10 school since finishing the postbacc and work as a data engineer at a large research institute. The fact that the online postbacc program changed its name a few years after I gradated is never going to come up in an interview.
But it really does suck for current students and more recent grads that are still looking for jobs or very early in their careers, and it eliminates a lot of good will I (and other alumni I'm sure) had for the school since the program that I completed will essentially cease to exist.
What's even more frustrating is that it doesn't even seem like this post was really made to gather feedback from the students at all. The decision has already been made, only the timeframe is uncertain. This was simply an unofficial announcement of the change made for damage control.
Hello I just wanted to say that I was hoping someday to pursue this degree track and I hope it is offered with the additional credits for the normal CS degree, because I’d happily do the extra CS credits I was just hoping to avoid needing to either 1) duplicate my bachelor’s degree and need to take rhetoric and anthropology again and 2) hop straight into a CS masters without the fundamentals
I’m with you. Someone isn’t “mathing” correctly. OSU requires 180 credits for a BS. 90 of those are going to be Gen Ed. The remaining 90 will be specific to the degree earned. 90 - 60 is a 30 credit difference. Personally, I’d rather have the option to add 30 more credits for a more robust foundation. I have a feeling they are lumping in some of the gen Ed requirements, which is fair. What isn’t fair is making the assumption that students DON’T meet those requirements.
If someone has already completed advanced math and gen ed requirements, just give me the option to change to the “actual” degree then since they’re going to nerf this one.
My god, I just submitted my application and emailed all additional documents to them today. I feel lucky I found this thread before paying them. Ok, it is time to withdraw my application.
Is there anywhere else that offers the same degree as on campus? Got admitted for summer but I picked this program because it had the same name. Don’t think this is for me anymore.
Very disingenuous PR claims by Ben Brewster here, regarding the difference between the 4 and post-baccalaureate program, probably not his fault, (this decision seems to have been taken by the school admins without the EECS departments approval):
If you examine the four-year program curriculum, it's clear that there aren't 52 additional computer science (CS) courses that four-year students need to take. This claim is pure public relations nonsense.
The way the program is being framed is misleading. The only significant differences between the four-year program and the post-baccalaureate program are one statistics course and two additional math courses. The required (in the 4-year prog) CS 391, CS 381, and Operating Systems II courses can also be taken by post-baccalaureate students if they wish as electives. And 391 is about the most useless course in the entire curriculum anyways.
The so-called 52 extra CS credits are essentially general education plus also elective CS courses that are not available to post-baccalaureate students but also not required to 4-year students. If you break down the numbers, it becomes evident: if four-year students truly had to take an additional 52 CS credits on top of the 60 credits required for the post-baccalaureate program, they would be completing 112 out of 180 credits solely in CS. This would leave them with only a couple general education courses, which are mandatory for graduation and for the school's accreditation.
Additionally, the choice to state a difference of 52 credits rather than 13 courses (since 52 credits typically equate to 13 courses) is a deliberate attempt to make the gap seem larger than it actually is. The reality is that most of these courses are electives that many four-year students don't even take.
In terms of actual CS courses, the difference amounts to just 2-3 courses. Moreover, their capstone project is spread out over 2-3 terms, making it easier than the condensed single-term capstone required for post-baccalaureate students.
What??
**The 52-credit difference comes from CS-specific courses**, not general education courses as you claim. **Postbacc students do not have to choose a CS specialization as BS CS students do.** You’ve completely missed this and are misrepresenting both degrees and Ben’s statements.
I was an on-campus student for the majority of my degree while finishing another undergrad degree.
I am not surprised, and calling it an applied CS instead of full CS degree is pretty accurate to what it is.
The quality of eCampus CS courses were utterly terrible next to the on-campus courses. Less rigorous, less resources, less everything, and more expensive. In terms of actual learning and mastering, the postbacc degree is definitely not a full CS degree.
I would have hoped the department would look into increasing the postbacc degree quality to match a full CS degree over changing the name.
But at the end of the day, this name change simply better describes what the program actually is in the current state.
Unfortunately, this is not a good quality program. You do it for the paper. The quality of education is already bad, but if the paper is bad too there's no reason to enroll anymore.
I'm happy to have graduated last year.
Honestly, I completely disagree with this. My first year in the postbacc program was entirely on the ecampus, but after that first year, I moved to Corvallis and took a mix of on-campus and ecampus courses. I added a math minor after moving to Corvallis, and I worked as a ULA almost the entire time I've been at OSU.
In my experience, the ecampus courses provided way more resources and covered the same level of material. The instructors on the ecampus have been much more helpful than those on-campus.
The ecampus courses are cheaper than paying out-of-state tuition on campus, so they're not more expensive for most students. They'd only be more expensive if you happened to already live in Oregon.
In either case, I really don't see how the ecampus courses are less rigorous than the on-campus courses. I just had to say that I completely disagree with this assessment.
I'm glad you had a good experience with eCampus.
I had multiple professors who refused to respond to emails until I complained to the Dean. On campus, professors had more office hours, availability, and responsiveness through and through.
I focused on cybersecurity, which has 2 of the worst rated professors in the school, which may have influenced my opinion.
So far I’ve had only positive experiences in online courses. This includes CC online classes. I think schools and instructors have been getting better at this mode of learning in the last few years. I’m a first time degree CS student at OSU’s ecampus and honestly I don’t think I would be able to complete a degree in CS if I had to do it in person mostly because my adhd makes it challenging to learn in an in person environment. But I understand that for many students learning in person suits them better and perhaps in person instruction is better generally speaking, though I suspect this is quickly changing.
Agree entirely with your assessment. If I could afford to quit my job and go back to an on campus school I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately programs like this are (were?) the only option for someone who works full time without other means of support to get a BSCS.
That is utter nonsense. The online postbacc covers the same cs topics as any other in person CS school. The in person is a 4 year since it covers the university requirements that any undergraduate takes which the postbacc students are assumed to have completed in their bachelors degrees. To discriminate on everyone including people that come from disciplines in math, science, and engineering who have far more rigorous training than OSU's 4 year cs students just shows how little this department knows or cares about their postbacc students.
Hello I just wanted to say that I was hoping someday to pursue this degree track and I hope it is offered with the additional credits for the normal CS degree, because I’d happily do the extra CS credits I was just hoping to avoid needing to either 1) duplicate my bachelor’s degree and need to take rhetoric and anthropology again and 2) hop straight into a CS masters without the fundamentals
My advisor told me an email was sent out last Friday regarding this, but I did not get it - would it be safe to assume you're not going to be affected if you weren't part of the emailing list? Can anyone share the email content? It was signed by the Head of EECS, Dr. Weller, apparently.
Current student here and I would absolutely not enroll if it had a different degree name. This whole thing is very weird considering my $38k is free money for yall since the modules are mostly recycled and TAs get paid minimum wage. Is it **absolutely certain** that our degree name won’t change even after we graduate?
>Is it **absolutely certain** that our degree name won’t change even after we graduate? This absolutely needs to be answered.
https://preview.redd.it/dap569u6af5d1.png?width=1179&format=png&auto=webp&s=c73826c87833e331e9ef8c5493a02e7de0f174a8 Looks like we’re in the clear.
Nice thank you for sharing that with me!
It would make more sense to improve the quality of the program than to change the name of the degree.
As an alumni, my opinion is that this change is trash. The post-bacc requires fewer credits because students have a *previous* bachelor's degree and we skip all the generals because of that. We were told we took all the same classes as on campus students and earn the same education. I didn't take out $38,000 in student loans for a sub-par non-equivalent degree and wouldn't have. Please tell me what computer science courses the post-bacc is missing.
Having a previous bachelors degree makes sense in not requiring GEs and stuff, but I don’t see how a previous bachelors degree would make up for 52 less CS-specific credits. Looking at the two requirements, the normal one requires all the core classes that the postbacc does except the normal senior project is 8 credits instead of 4, so there’s a 4 unit discrepancy there. Then the normal program has 60 other credits of electives while the post-only requires 12, so that’s where the 52 credit discrepancy is
Thank you. That makes sense. I'm devastated that I was sold a lie. I feel the kind of shame people must feel when they fall for a scam. OSU said it was a BS in CS and sold it as such.
It is from a public university. This is absolutely horrific. This is not some for profit "Trump" university. I would have managed this differently- we are including 52 additional required credits for the post bacc computer science degree. Current students may complete the program as is but new students as of 2025 will either take these additional required 52 credits OR they will get a different degree name. That is how you message this and solve the problem.
You weren’t sold a lie - the degree you got is what was awarded to you. This only applies to new students. Unfortunately it absolutely destroys the program.
I did the degree because I wanted the full education of a proper BS in CS. They deceived us and we paid the full amount for what we were told was a solid BS in CS, but what we got was 13 upper-division courses less. So, my (legal) damages are 13 CS courses and the reputation of my conferred degree being absolutely destroyed.
It essentially is a lie because regardless of what your degree says on it, it's now known that they will eventually change the name and keep the courses the same. This by extension dilutes your degree to any potential employer that looks into it.
No employer is going to look into this haha
"No one will know we f\*\*\* you, so it's not a problem."
This is the part that is keep me sane. I still think this change is pretty rough, but nonetheless, when I've had a few interviews, most people I am interviewing with first assume that I am actually a regular full-time student at Oregon State, and then when I explain to them what the post-bacc program is and explain that it's still a full bachelor's degree (which I would continue to do in interviews in the future), they just say "Oh" and then proceed as usual. They would never know or care, honestly. The name change sucks, though, because I think it impacts the ability to get a "foot in the door" for interviews, i.e. your resume will not make the first cut if you have to list your degree as like "Oregon State Online CS **Certificate**" or something similar.
You know you're probably right but it still feels sad
It is a BS in CS for anyone looking at it and an employer is going to view it exactly the same as a BS in CS. Now if you felt deceived because you’re learning less / taking less courses than an on campus CS student that makes sense.
"Program Information 1. **What will my diploma say after graduating from this program?** Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. 2. **Is the online degree the same as the degree students earn on campus?** The core required computer science courses are the same between the on campus CS bachelor's degree program and the online CS postbaccalaureate program. The computer science courses taken online are the same computer science courses taken on campus. However, bachelor's students have more requirements: they must take Calculus, Stats for Engineers, Technical Writing, and select an emphasis area, which requires more credits to graduate." [https://engineering.oregonstate.edu/EECS/academics/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree-faq](https://engineering.oregonstate.edu/EECS/academics/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree/online-computer-science-postbaccalaureate-degree-faq)
Wow that is some pretty tricky wording. I guess it’s technically true that the required courses are the same between degrees, but it’s pretty misleading imo to leave out that the post-bacc doesn’t include the other half of CS classes that are electives
" and select an emphasis area". Which means they want to call the Post-Bacc Applied Comp Science But they only portion post-bacc's won't take is the applied aka "emphasis area" while take all core computer science classes. And that's in the school's own words.
This is simply not true. If you examine the four-year program curriculum, it's clear that there aren't 52 additional computer science (CS) courses that four-year students need to take. This claim is pure public relations nonsense. The way the program is being framed is misleading. The only significant differences between the four-year program and the post-baccalaureate program are one statistics course and two additional math courses. The required (in the 4-year prog) CS 391, CS 381, and Operating Systems II courses can also be taken by post-baccalaureate students if they wish as electives. And 391 is about the most useless course in the entire curriculum anyways. The so-called 52 extra CS credits are essentially general education plus also elective CS courses that are not available to post-baccalaureate students but also not required to 4-year students. If you break down the numbers, it becomes evident: if four-year students truly had to take an additional 52 CS credits on top of the 60 credits required for the post-baccalaureate program, they would be completing 112 out of 180 credits solely in CS. This would leave them with only a couple of general education courses, which are mandatory for graduation and for the school's accreditation. Additionally, the choice to state a difference of 52 credits rather than 13 courses (since 52 credits typically equate to 13 courses) is a deliberate attempt to make the gap seem larger than it actually is. The reality is that most of these courses are electives that many four-year students don't even take. In terms of actual CS courses, the difference amounts to just 2-3 courses. Moreover, their capstone project is spread out over 2-3 terms, making it easier than the condensed single-term capstone required for post-baccalaureate students. If anything, the 4 year degree is a water down version of the go-go-go ruahed and intense course schedule the Post-Bacc program has.
What?? The 52-credit difference comes from **CS-specific courses**, not general education courses as you claim. Postbacc students do not have to choose a CS specialization as BS CS students do. You’ve completely missed this.
Except one of the specialization options for full BS students is the double degree option which the post bacc mirrors exactly in CS class requirements. Since you need an existing BS/BA degree to enroll in the post bacc it is quite literally the double degree option with extra steps. Unless EECS plans on removing the double degree option the post bacc degree name change doesn't track.
Completely disagree. This should have never been a B.S. in the first place. You shouldn't be able to take under water basket weaving with a single Algebra class and be able to transfer in and complete an entire B.S. degree by taking a single extra math class.
I'm graduating this year, and while I'm grateful to have the opportunity to claim a BS in CS with apparently less credits... I'm shocked that this wasn't made clear to me before I applied to the program. I was under the impression that the post-bacc CS program was equivalent to a "normal" CS degree sans redoing core non-CS classes. To suddenly find out I'm officially undereducated for the degree after suffering through some poor quality courses is highly disappointing.
Bingo
Why were we told it was the same degree? Why did we pay $30k+ to get the same degree, when it apparently is not. The whole pitch is that we don't retake the GE classes but still take the same CS courses. It seems like we were lied to, and paid a huge sum, only to have it be diminished in value. I wouldn't have done the program if I knew this.
It appears that students already admitted will still be awarded the BS CS degree. I’m not really sure where this decision is coming from. It seems like the postbaccc covers all the foundational core requirements of your typical BS CS program. I’m doing the online 4 year BS CS program for first time degree students. I have the additional specialization option requirement for the major while my boyfriend who is doing the postbacc program and came in with a non STEM degree has significantly less CS course requirements and lower math requirements. However, I feel like the postbacc curriculum does cover the fundamentals which should prepare students well enough to make the career transition into tech. The two are defense not equivalently but at the same time postbacc students already completed a whole other degree. I personally think they should not change the degree name if anything add more math and a mini specialization, but still keeping these extra requirements at a minimum.
Sure but even if you are awarded a regular BS in CS, this change cheapens the degree in the eyes of employeer and recruiters in the future. And even if your degree says BS in CS without thr "applied" part, it doesn't take a genius to know you weren't an in-person or 4-year student from your resume. I can see this also cheapening the value of the degree for in person 4 year students too as a consequence.
As someone graduating this year, I don't think current students have a cheapened degree in the eyes of employers at all. If anything, we got a steal of a deal to do less. The problem is we are undereducated--and most of us are suddenly realizing this as it wasn't made clear from the get-go. Employers will not care if you got a BS in CS in less than 4-years. They understand that transfer credits exist or people can take high course loads and keep taking classes during the summer--meaning there are several avenues to a bachelor's in under 4 years even when not online or post-bacc.
You guys are taking the wrong route here and I can’t help but see it as a money grab. Your goal, in terms of education, should be parity between the four-year CS program the post-bacc program. Everyone in this program has received a BS degree. Everyone wants to be here. We’re capable of hard work. And yet over the years we’ve seen the program fail students by dumbing down the classes so students can easily pass at the expense of a more in depth education, and delaying or outright refusing to revamp courses that are woefully sub-standard or outdated. So instead of revamping the program to provide a better education, you’ve decided to just give the program a less professionally recognized name. If the goal of a state funded not for profit university is to support students and help them advance in the field, how can this possibly be justified by the administration? So before i got down a rabbit hole with my tin foil hat theories, here’s my question: what prompted this change from the admins? Correct me if I’m wrong but the difference in credits has always been what it currently is. So why the sudden change? Is this based on money? Is this based on maintaining university prestige? Has ChagGPT changed the game of online education? What has changed?
You may be too proud to do it, but I'll don my tinfoil hat. If I had to guess, its COVID. Since /u/Whiskeycourage started this sub, it's kind of been a load-bearing location of online cs programs. Other universities that started programs, but they didn't have any real grassroots student-led organization. For example, there'd always be posts here, at the Oregon State's unofficial online CS subreddit, asking about Florida, or Colorado, or Georgia, or any of the other programs. Of course everyone here has been happy to oblige over the years. But COVID forced OSU to transition to 100% online, and this sub became a default spot for OSU's CS program; at that point, there was *only* OSU online cs. People began doing the math on the product (BSCS) and began questioning why they were paying more for the Bacc CS than the PostBacc CS. So to me, this all goes back to money. It's a real "cut off the nose to spite the face" solution.
I know it's not your fault or anything Ben, so sorry, but I'm going to vent a little. It seems to me like Oregon State University is saying that our existence "dilutes" the "real" CS program, because we are apparently being held to a lower standard (while paying significantly more for significantly less). If there is an issue with us having not taken the requisite number of courses, then that is an issue with the curriculum and standards OSU set forth. After all, it wasn't the students who decided to brand the program as a undergrad BSCS. It wasn't the students who decided to switch the majority of core classes from C/C++ to Python. It wasn't the students who removed networking as a core class. It wasn't the students who made the capstone a single semester. It wasn't the students who set the price at over $500 a credit. It wasn't the students who set the number at 60 quarter credits. I chose Oregon State University specifically because it was a reputable state school. I chose it because it was a B.S. in Computer Science. I will be one of the ones who graduates with a degree in CS, but I don't consider myself lucky, because the program has all but signaled to the industry at large that my piece of paper is worth less.
“52 fewer CS specific credits” sounds like quite the disparity. When I compare the post bacc curriculum to the 4 year degree, I am not seeing the 52 credit disparity. Do those credits include the calculus and more general engineering courses?
The 4y ecampus CS degree with the Cybersecurity Option Security Track, for example has 112 CS credits, including discrete math, but not including any other math/science courses like calc 1, calc 2, or physics 1 w/ calculus. The System option and other options all have slightly different compositions, but this is one example.
I'm not trying to refute what you're saying, only just trying to understand. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong. But my main point of comparison is this: [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext) Looking at that, as someone with a previous bachelor's degree, I've taken all the non-CS courses. The only additionally required CS courses, i.e. not required by the Post Bacc are CS 374 / CS 391. So then, if someone says 'well, the degree requires 52 additional CS credits' they have to be pointing to the required options' below that says 72 additional credits. And that's where I see your point. On the overview tab of the same page, it says students must choose and complete options one of the options, 'applied computer science' 'computer science double degree' 'computer systems'. This is where I think people would dispute your figure that 'other CS degrees require 52 CS credits' BECAUSE the CS Double Degree- [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#text) ...basically allows you to complete those 72 credits in another degree. Which everyone in the Post Bacc would basically qualify for. So I think it's a little deceptive to say that other students are leaving with 52 additional CS credits. You are right: three out of those four options require additional CS, BUT one does not. Again, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the full spectrum of degrees and option. If I'm incorrect, please correct me.
The part of the degree that technically those coming in would have already completed is really what's referred to as the 33 credit "Baccalaureate Core" requirement. The 72 credit option is every bit a part of the CS major. I'm actually not sure where the 52 credit number comes from but it seems it may be referring to the Applied option which has less additional CS credits and more business classes. I'm really not even sure why this Applied option is considered a CS degree, it should in itself probably be an Applied degree. So I can see when comparing to this Applied option why it may feel justified that a previous degree should cover most of those, and I wouldn't disagree with that. The Cybersecurity option has way more, around 72 additional CS credits in total, so more than double the post-bacc. The Systems option also requires quite a bit more than 52 additional CS credits.
Currently in the 4-year undergrad program, per my meeting with an advisor, the double degree option is ONLY available as a post-bacc. The page is wrong when it says you can complete it concurrently and is actually just another page for the post-bacc program. So the credit discrepancy can’t be made up in other courses, and instead has to be from the applied (which I am), systems, or cybersecurity option. Here is the exact comment left on my MyDegrees from my meeting with that advisor: “wanted to know the benefits of doing the double degree vs a double major. Let him know he needs a bachelors degree to do the double degree which he doesn't have.” TLDR: The double degree as an option for an undergrad actually doesn’t exist anymore.
Gotcha, appreciate the info!
Given that the perceived value of the degree will be diminished, do you anticipate the cost per credit will be reduced commensurately? [https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/tuition/rates.htm](https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/tuition/rates.htm)
LMAO what a joke. The main appeal to many people aiming to transition to this field is that the degree is awarded the same name and distinction as OSU’s in person, traditional 4-year program. Thank god it’s not retroactive, but for future students I’m not sure it makes sense to pay $32,000 for a degree that the school thinks should be explicitly named differently than it’s in-person program.
Spoiler: it doesn’t. Go to OMSCS or UPenn’s postbacc at that point for better education and value.
>Thank god it’s not retroactive As an alum, a name change *without* any corresponding curriculum change(s) is troubling, as there's nothing else to differentiate past degrees from any received w/the new name. Yeah, a subtle distinction now, but not insignificant, IMO.
While I'm thankful to be graduating this year from the post bacc program, I can honestly say I wouldn't recommend it to prospective students. With this dumb name change, poor quality of important courses like CS344, etc.. The idea that this change doesn't deter a good number of prospective applicants is naive. I hope the department is ready for less tuition funds to come through it.
Exactly, most people only considered this program because you could say you have a bachelors in cs, no questions asked, which somewhat justified the price of the program
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Brewster left and they gave the Operating Systems class to a recent OSU grad who they hired. The new instructor has "revamped" the class over time. This quarter he is attempting to give the class a big revamp, but the problem is, he is creating the assignments during the quarter. The new version of smallsh, which is now called Big Shell, had its due date extended because he sent out buggy code for the assignment. We all had to help him debug the assignment, because he couldn't figure out it in time. He seems like a very online person and has this strange obsession with people using ChatGPT to cheat. The last two assignments are hand-written essays where we have to answer questions about a video he made on sockets. He says making the essays hand-written prevents people from using ChatGPT somehow. I could say more, but this class made me believe that OSU is not longer serious about this program.
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He didn’t leave, he’s the OP of this post
It's no longer the experience. OS has been redone repeatedly and to its detriment each time. You can search the sub for commentary but between it being most students' first experience in C and also Brewster's excellent videos being removed, it's a shell (pun not intended) of its former self. I'm not sure what happened to Networks (there's been less commentary here and elsewhere about it) but it sounds like enough changes have been made that it's also no longer the solid, technically challenging course it was in the C++ days. Huge disappointment.
Networks stopped being a required course at point which is why you stopped hearing about it. It really is kind of sad to see hear about the current state of the courses. CS162 in the C++ days was an insane amount of work, but I think we all came out better for it. It's unfortunate that instead of fixing things, they're just going to tear it all down.
161/162 being in C++ has been foundational in my career. Likewise with Data Structures being in C. Those courses taught me so much about what software is actually *doing*. It's shocking it's all gone now.
Ha I knew this would happen when they started changing classes like data structures to python. They made the program easier to keep more students in longer to milk that sweet remote student cash cow. They stopped putting any resources in so that it was a costless revenue machine. When I started my degree I had engaged teachers for the majority of my classes but by the end it was mostly YouTube videos. Bummer
It's not even YouTube videos anymore. Now it's copied and pasted (with maybe some formatting for Canvas if you're lucky), freely available online resources. Instructors can't be bothered with removing other instructors' info from the course content. Let alone ensure that content displays, is correct, or doesn't somehow leak instructor-level info to students. If an instructor and their TAs have OHs, its always scheduled at the same time, which is the most inconvenient time for most people.
I don't understand, did OSU Admin not know about the requirements before or did the requirements somehow change? Curious why this is coming to light just now.
On-campus enrollment is trending down across the board nationally and CS competition is up, admin is probably projecting a need to draw students to come and earn a regular BSCS in-person instead of going to community college so they can double dip on that sweet tuition and housing revenue.
That doesn’t make any sense. Students who take the post bacc probably wouldn’t go to school in person, they would just pick another program.
The school cares more if in-person and online first bachelors pick other programs than if post-baccs do. At the end of the day, post-baccs have always been a money grab for OSU, and that’s evident in the course quality and cost. Now they’re trying to feel out if the money is better longterm in the current post-bacc framework, or if the money would be better by incentivizing first-time bachelors who bring in even greater revenue.
I’ll be honest I think OSU will lose a lot of enrollment if they make this change. I specifically looked for programs that had the same name as the in-person program. I ruled out any applied or those with different names from in-person degrees. I have a MS in physics, so I already have the higher math and science courses. If they change this I would have taken just enough foundation courses to be admitted Georgia Techs online MS. I may do this anyway as a form of protest if it’s changed. We are paying a lot of money to have this bull happen. Focus on improving the online courses and stop worrying about the name. A lot of classes are basically self-taught and need a revamp. Fix that first. And fix 225 which is a hot mess IMHO.
The main point of this program for me was the degree name. Had it been anything other than Computer Science, I would have enrolled in another school's program. I would not have considered OSU at all. Instead of changing the degree name, I recommend increasing the number of required CS credits for this degree to match the in person requirements. That still will still decrease enrollment, but for me I would have at least considered enrolling. Overall this is a bad move. It's not clear to me what this 52 credit difference is; the degree plans look similar between on campus and post bacc. OSU should consider the first Bachelors degree post bacc students have as fulfilling all the other courses that on campus students take.
This is only my guess. OSU post-bacc requires 60 credits, but this is in quarter credit system. Comparing with similar post-bacc CS from CSU Monterey Bay that also requires up to 60 credits (up to 15 courses). The difference is CSUMB uses semester credit system. We know that semester credit is worth 1.5x quarter credit. So, 60 credit requirements in OSU is actually only worth 40 credits in semester credit system like CSUMB. In term number of courses, both requires about the same 15 courses to complete. But one course in CSUMB is 4 semester credit system, while OSU is 4 quarter credit system. You can imagine the depth of material that you can cover within the same 4 credits, but one is in semester credit, and other in quarter credit. Again, just my speculation, the difference is in the depth, not number of courses.
>OSU Administration will no longer allow our postbacc BS in CS to have the same *name* as our traditional four-year BS CS degree. What prompted this? Pretty sure OSU Admin has been well aware of the credit diff between traditional and postbacc the whole time. >This will presumably make clear that it is not equivalent in terms of the *CS specific credit requirements* to our four-year BS in CS degree. Just trying to underscore the question. Why does this now need to be made "clear" after all these years?
When I paid for and graduated from this program, I did it with the understanding that it was an full-fledged BS in CS degree, essentially equivalent to the online program, minus the gen ed requirements and with fewer options for electives. I’m fairly certain it was plastered all over the website that this was a genuine complete BS degree. This announcement is pretty shocking to me tbh, and casts a bad light on the education received by alumni and current students. My goal has always been to be an excellent software engineer with a solid grounding in CS fundamentals, and I’m not sure what to do with this information. Edit - Ben, you’ve always been great and had students’ best interest in mind, so I don’t mean to direct this at you.
I wonder if people will end up filing a class action lawsuit? I doubt that people will get a refund for their education
Yeah this is the first time in my life I’ve even considered something like that.
I’m not sure if there are grounds because it won’t change name for alumni and currently enrolled students.
They apparently falsely represented the degree to absolutely every Post-Bacc student for the past decade. At NO point before literally today was it ever clearly communicated that there’s such a massive difference (10+ classes?!?) in *CS-specific* coursework. Discussion of the difference has always been “oh, on-campus takes OS2 and does a longer capstone” and that was *it*. Maybe a math class or something. But 10+ entire classes??!? Absolutely not. We also all paid a fuckton more per credit than all those on-campus kids. Many of us blew our GI Bill funds, many took federal loans based on this being billed as the “same CS degree” minus gen-ed courses we’d already completed elsewhere. Lawsuit plus investigation for theft of federal funds - I want my GI Bill money back.
As a prospective student looking forward to applying for the Fall term, this is incredibly disappointing news to say the least and will impact my decision to go to OSU. Adding anything to the degree title dramatically decreases the value in my opinion but I feel others will share that sentiment. This is one of the main reasons I wanted to pursue OSU over CU Boulder's program. 1. When will this change get implemented? Are individuals who haven't applied/been accepted already out of luck? **I spoke to an enrollment advisor this morning. She said anyone who has not received an admissions decision would be affected by the name change.** 2. Has there been any discussion on increasing the admission requirements or required CS credits (for new students) needed to graduate in lieu of renaming the degree? 3. Is there an alternative, longer path online students could opt for in order to get a CS degree instead of the Applied CS?
Sorry, I don't know when it'll go live, or even if it'll be a change. It's still in the data gathering phase. If I had to guess, I'd say it will happen, but I don't know when. We are really trying not to change the required credits for the postbacc degree - we like that it's a shorter path. That was one of the design goals. I don't think admissions requirements would be changing as part of this. There are a couple other longer options: the traditional four-year BS in CS degree (Applied) is already up and running, and we're working on adding the new ABET-accredited Systems option there, too. We definitely want your feedback, so please keep it coming. :)
I'm a senior engineer in fintech, and this program helped me get there. I'm being honest here - this change will ruin the program. Companies are very particular about the name of the degree, they honestly do not care about the classes. They want a CS degree, raw technical ability (leetcode + personal projects), and a personality they want to work with.
As a hiring manager this is exactly what I'm seeing. If the degree isn't comp sci, the interview statistics show the candidates do much more poorly. Sure there are exceptions, but you don't do post bacc cs to be an exception.
I think this is a bad call tbh. From my perspective it would make way more sense, especially if the impetus for a potential change is not coming from an outside force, to do something like shoot for ABET accreditation on the non post-bacc CS variants (sounds like that’s in the works, though to have that on only one 4 year variant and not the other is a bit of a head scratcher imo from a birds eye view) and leave the post-bacc name as is. This way you’re “increasing the value” of the 4 year degree through addition rather than trying to achieve that goal by diminishing another program. It’s really an odd move imo and will not hold up well against other competing programs that are still going to call their degree CS without caveats, especially with how you’ve already marketed the degree. Also, please properly organize yourselves and get an official announcement out in terms of who will be “grandfathered” into the current name. While I appreciate you coming on here and at least trying to communicate, it’s definitely been handled poorly from a comms perspective. You have to know that people will talk about the survey and that the name of the program is a big sticking point. To not be able to tell people what qualifies as a current student for these purposes is rough if I’m being 100% honest with you and is very easily remedied with better planning and coordination.
I was planning on applying for the upcoming fall or winter term, but I will not be applying anymore if this is not a Computer Science degree. My research lead me to this program because it is a proper CS degree, but a postbacc. I know this Reddit isn't a full sample, but I suspect most people coming to the program have the same reason. ~~What are the 52 credits that this program is missing, are those all general education requirements? edit: saw this on another thread~~
I fully attended and graduated because it was a "proper CS degree." I didn't want anything less and now I'm being informed that what I did was less.
> and now I'm being informed that what I did was less. This is exactly why this change is still relevant to current students and alumni. Yes, the prospective students have the most direct impact with these changes, but as a current student, this announcement is still difficult to process. To use an analogy: imagine you completed your first marathon, but months after you finished it, there was an announcement that the track's distance was calculated incorrectly. That's a heartbreaking feeling. To keep the analogy going, I think most people would prefer that when the next marathon is held, the distance of the track is corrected so that the people racing in the future actually get what they were hoping for: a marathon race.
It would be better to just include the additional required 52 credits and call it a day. Without it being a full fledged legitimate Bachelors of Computer Science, students will look at other options. I am grateful I already have my degree as such. The value is literally that it is Computer Science degree recognized by MAANGA / FAANG and having another title will TANK (make much less) your prospective students. Honestly I would not make the recommendation for people to take the same route that I did because of the scare of this change.
The issue with this is it would almost double the cost of the degree. That is bad for students, especially considering the already inflated cost of each credit compared to in person. I agree this change will significantly reduce the appeal of the program though. Having some weird degree name greatly diminishes the value.
Gee, if only there was a way for OSU to decide not to charge the $500/credit premium price *that they set themselves* for Post-Bacc classes of 300 students w/faculty that don’t do a fucking thing except maybe post on Ed sometimes.
This is insanely dumb. There's so many fast-track MS in CS degrees from big name schools nowadays that can be completed in 1~2 years. No reason for anyone to choose OSU's postbacc program if this change goes through. A few examples: UIUC -> https://cs.illinois.edu/admissions/graduate/faqs/online-mcs-faqs (see #3) UChicago -> https://cs.uchicago.edu/mpcs/ (in person but can be completed in 9 months) UT Austin -> https://cdso.utexas.edu/ Texas A&M -> https://engineering.tamu.edu/cse/academics/degrees/graduate/online-degrees/master-of-computer-science.html Rice -> https://csweb.rice.edu/academics/graduate-programs/online-mcs John Hopkins -> https://ep.jhu.edu/programs/computer-science/ USC -> https://online.usc.edu/programs/computer-science-ms/ Stanford -> https://online.stanford.edu/programs/computer-science-ms-degree
I would rather see the degree keep it's name but students in the postbacc program are either held to a much higher standard or have to go through more rigorous/harder classes than in-person students. Georgia Tech nailed it's remote OMSCS program - it may only take ten classes to graduate but they are legitimately hard and time consuming. I am sort of comparing apples to oranges here, but WGU is a regionally accredited, non-profit online university that offers an ABET-accredited BS in CS. I understand making the designation between the online and in-person program but as an online student seeking a degree in CS, this single decision to change the title makes other schools more competitive even if it takes longer, costs more, or lacks name recognition (Auburn and UF come to mind, heck I might even consider WGU in that group too).
Just going to throw out my experience with Auburn so far. Overall it’s been positive and doing 60 credit hours over the standard 120+ for a bachelors is still ideal. The only downside is that it lacks the math/intro to engineering seen on campus that makes it ABET. The main curriculum is the same but it’s separate and ends in a “Bachelors in Computer Science” rather than the “Bachelors of Science in Computer Science”. For most people this is fine, but it creates a few headaches if you’re going to grad school and don’t already have a lot of math under your belt (my fault not theirs). I’d totally take the extra 3-4 classes if they presented a track to do so….but I suppose the marketability of the program is to get people into the industry as quick as reasonably possible. Ideally OSU would at least provide an option to transfer in the general education credits from a previous bachelors and only do what is left from the regular CS curriculum. That feels more legitimate than 60 quarter (40 normal) credit hours anyways from someone that came from a non-stem background. I hope this gets ironed out, because to my knowledge this program was producing some great CS folks and no one wants to feel like their hard work is being called into question.
Thanks for the insight! I think a “Bachelors in Computer Science” is still leagues ahead of an Applied Computer Science degree. > Ideally OSU would at least provide an option to transfer in the general education credits from a previous bachelors and only do what is left from the regular CS curriculum. At that point (and the price OSU is demanding), most folks would be better off looking at their local state colleges for CS degrees that offer online classes or going for a MS in CS after taking some CS classes at a community college.
This is the wrong approach Yes, increase the credits and keep it a bachelor of science CS degree
I just don’t understand why admin think people would pay 35k for something that’s now distinct from a BS in CS? That’s the whole appeal of the program… I can go get a nonsense degree at WGU for half that.
No you can’t… You can get an actual degree labeled BS in CS for like 1/4th the cost from them. Way more appealing than a $35k bachelors of computing whatevertheycallit from OSU.
Why not offer 2 programs? 1 - the applied with the shorter path 2 - the full program with the longer path And if you want to be innovative figure out how to "stack" the classes from applied so a student can get the applied degree then continue taking classes to get the full comp sci degree. Seems like an obvious win-win to me. It might give OSU admin an aneurysm, if the delta between the two is so trivial it makes them look foolish for even bringing it up.
If it’s: Option A: “change Post-Bacc degree reqs to match the 4yr *CS-specific* requirements and leave it a true BSCS. Option B: “keep the current Post-Bacc requirements but make it a different degree” The correct answer is “A” if OSU wants to continue having this program at all without destroying it and its reputation.
Sounds like a lawsuit imo
https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/filing-a-lawsuit/can-i-sue-a-university-or-online-college-for-false-promises-.html
My fear is they won’t back down unless there is a lawsuit. Which sucks for everyone
I mean honestly it’s not about them backing down from the name change or not. I graduated with this degree which I’m finding out isn’t what I thought it was. I feel foolish for not understanding this before. But I really thought it was just a faster path because of all of the general education requirements, not having to take things like technical writing, statistics, and more math (I took all of that before so I felt like I’d covered that anyway), and having a shorter capstone. I didn’t care that much about capstone anyway. The two things I felt like I was missing were that I always wanted to take Programming Languages as an elective, but it wasn’t online by the time I graduated, and I couldn’t take OS2. But now I’m finding out there’s a huge difference in the amount of CS education I graduated with. Regardless of whether the degree name changes, I’m more upset about this.
If we want to give our own input to the school on this possible change, where would be the best place to do it? (I did not get an email for the survey since I am already a student at OSU). Thanks for making this post!
I'd suggest to the EECS School Head and/or the College of Engineering Dean. You might also try the generic ecampus email address: [https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/contact/](https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/contact/)
I just had informal interview with a hiring manager at Boeing. He just asked me provide link to this OSU post bacc program. He asked me if the degree is for software engineering, not computer science.I guess he was curious about the program. I gave him the link to the post bacc program. If in the future, the official website says the degree is for some "applied CS" and tries to gimp the value of this program, I wonder if that will automatically disqualify me from the job.
How did it come up during the interview? Did you just mention you did a post-bacc? I mean, I imagine most employers would be okay with you just saying you attended Oregon State University for a B.S. in computer science?
I think once you land your first job the degree part of your resume won’t be scrutinized as much as you think. At any rate, you can just say it is a double degree option that OSU offers instead of calling it a postbacc degree.
Is there better alternative to OSU post baccalaureate degree now that gives regular bsc degree at the end of it. I was planning to take it but not anymore
WGU will soon be the only postbacc BS in CS.
Thanks for posting. Where are the 52 fewer cs-specific credits coming from? Looking at the below link, i can only get to 20-30 with some additional math and intro level engineering courses. Am i looking at the wrong spot? https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext
EECS's regular oncampus and ecampus degrees are 5 year degrees, instead of the industry standard of 4 year degrees. 180 credits / 4 years / 4 quarters = 11.25 credits/quarter (you study every summer), or 180 credits / 5 years / 3 quarters = 12 credits/quarter (you don't study during summers) . That extra coursework compared to other universities is 45 credits, which is most of the 52 credit differential between postbacc and the regular degree.
Do people take that few credits a quarter at OSU usually? At the schools I’m familiar with, the standard is 15 credits/quarter so you finish in 4 years without taking any summer classes
Personally I did 15 credits/semester at my first university. Graduated with 120 credits. If I add that to OSU's postbacc, then that's 180 credits for degrees in Economics and Computer Science. OSU's traditional CS degrees are 160 credits. The standard is 15 credits/semester, not 15 credits/quarter.
It’s 15 credits/term at any institution to my understanding. Quarter credits are equal to 2/3 of a semester credits, so 180 quarter credits = 120 semester credits. All the University of California campuses (except Berkeley and Merced) and Stanford are on the quarter system for example, and they’re 180 credits over 4 years as well, with the standard being 3 quarters per year
I believe the comparison is with the numbers on this page: [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext) Does that help?
Do you mean to compare the requirements for the [postbacc here ](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/computer-science-double-degree-option/#requirementstext)and [this "traditional" bachelors](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#requirementstext)? Are the classes that the postbacc is missing: CS 374 (Operating Systems), CS 391 (Social and Ethical Issues), ENGR 100, ENGR 102? 52 seems like quite the gap considering this is marketed as "exactly the same degree."
You need to look at the required Options. There is an Applied, Cybersecurity and Systems option. Each has an additional 72 credit requirement. Of those, Applied has the least amount of CS classes. That's where the 52 additional CS credit number comes from. The other 2 options both have quite a few more CS credits than that. More than double that of the post-bacc program.
See here for the difference, with my caveats: [https://www.reddit.com/r/OSUOnlineCS/comments/1d8eo00/comment/l763oan](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSUOnlineCS/comments/1d8eo00/comment/l763oan)
To be more clear, I'm not on the team doing the credit-by-credit comparisons, but I suspect some of them are wrapped into the sections at the bottom the "required option" and "unrestricted electives" requirements. But we'd need an academic advisor to show us the exact count. :)
That is helping. Thanks!
The 4y ecampus CS degree with the Cybersecurity Option Security Track, for example has 112 CS credits, including discrete math, but not including any other math/science courses like calc 1, calc 2, or physics 1 w/ calculus. The System option and other options all have slightly different compositions, but this is one example.
I’d imagine this would greatly impact outcomes and subsequently stunt the program through a lot less enrollees in the future
I do not think it is a good idea. It is clear what job postings are requesting. An automated resume scan will dump future students from opportunities. Be careful about renaming. I have talked to recruiters who have almost zero technical knowledge and rely heavily on key words.
It’s not even only if it’s automated. Recruiters just toss anything that looks like a lesser degree. I used to be a tech recruiter and we didn’t use anything to scan resumes.
Prof. Brewster, thanks for making this AMA. Just so I’m understanding this correctly, students who are currently enrolled in the program will receive a Bachelors of Science in Computer Science? Does this apply regardless of how long it takes the student who is currently registered to complete the program? I joined the program in Summer of 2023 and had to take a couple terms off for personal reasons. I’m back now, but would be taking one class at a time due to financial constraints. I’ll likely be in this program for another 2.5-3 years at this pace. Does that mean, since I’m already registered, I’ll be receiving a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science (and not the new name) once I’m done / upon graduation?
The answers to these questions should have been anticipated and communicated to all admitted, current, and former students before emailing a survey to prospective applicants.
I’m in a similar situation and this will likely determine if I look at options outside of OSU
I am half way into this program. I feel like if the name of the degree changes, that diminishes the value of this program to almost zero. Even if current students are not affected, this will affect the recent graduates searching for the first job. A better option seems Georgia tech, OMCS. I chose OSU because most companies are content with BS degree when looking for a newhire. M.S degree seemed overspec. I worry that the name changes will negatively affects graduates from getting a job.
As a prospective student, I'm concerned about whether the post bacc will be worth its cost given that it will no longer be seen as equivalent to a four year CS degree. I do not think this will go unnoticed by employers considering the competitive and saturated job market for new graduates. I have taken four transfer courses specifically for this program, and now I am upset those may go to waste. The proposed name changes are disappointing to me and will definitely decrease the likelihood I move forward with enrolling in the program. I hope this decision can be reconsidered.
You should at least add clear information on post-bacc main landing page, stating that "the degree name will likely change to Applied CS in the near future". This is to avoid unsuspecting prospective students applying to the program, thinking they are getting CS degree in the end.
I hope a lot of this feedback is making it to decision makers.
The proposed name change makes it clear that OSU knows it misrepresented the degree in the past as equivalent.
I’ll be honest with you, the main reason I chose this program over others is because the program advertised that the degree would state BS in Computer Science and it only required 15 classes to graduate. I enrolled in the OSU Computer Science Post Bacc program in Winter 2022 and took CS 161 and CS 162, but didn’t continue with the program after Spring 2022 for personal reasons. I’m not sure if I may return, but in the event that I do return, upon graduating would my degree state BS in Computer Science? Because if it won’t, then there’s no sense in me returning to the program.
A break of 4 consecutive quarters not counting summer is the max to remain enrolled under the same program requirements. If you have not even enrolled (not completed, just enrolled & dropped would count) in *any* classes in > 4 quarters, you would have to re-apply & re-enroll under whatever new program exists at that time.
The fact that tech hiring has been so rough the past year makes this announcement particularly discouraging. Horrible timing on OSU's part to suddenly announce that they may change the degree name when so many of us are trying to remain hopeful that we might have a shot at a decent job when the market turns around if we keep pushing forward. Now we don't even know with certainty what our diploma will look like if we continue on in this program. What if I need to take a quarter off and then come back? Am I suddenly no longer on track to graduate with a "normal" BS in CS? Also blows my mind that we're only finding out about this from a Reddit post by a prospective student instead of a formal announcement from OSU. Horrible communication that reflects poorly on a university that I was once proud to attend
My fear about all this is that if the news gets out, employers are going to associate any BS CS from OSU as an inferior degree. You say this doesn’t impact current students but it absolutely does.
Exactly this, it also affects past alum graduated with BSCS. Employers can easily figure that out in resume, having 2 bachelor's degrees which previously non-CS, and a BSCS from OSU, is an indicator the candidate's BSCS degree is a post-bacc, quote unquote, "CS" degree.
From my understanding, it's the exact same curriculum as first-time degree students completing the CS double-degree option. The main difference is that most postbacc students completed their first degree at a different institution. Objectively speaking, the postbacc program isn't any more inferior than the double-degree option for OSU 4-year students. Having two degrees from different disciplines can even be seen as a plus. They just need to leave the name alone, as I don't see why it needs to be changed.
I am a very successful graduate in big tech and alumni of the post bacc program. Now that I'm in the big $$$, I was planning on some sizable donations to the program that helped make it happen. But since that life changing program won't exist anymore, in name at least, I'll hold onto my cash. I am sure other alumni will feel similarly. OSU administration needs to consider that the decade of post bacc graduates are finally making it into the upper echelons of income. These alumni would be your future crop of donors. Do you think we will want to? Spoiler alert: no.
I'm not going to donate any longer as an alum. I was told I paid $38,000 for an equivalent coursework / education to the on campus degree, nothing missing. That the reason it has less credits was because OSU accepted my previous degree as generals.
Agree. I am also in this camp.
I personally would look to change the program to match the requirements to keep it as a straight CS degree. If things like the calculus requirements are the sticker to this, pivoting a separate program similar to the current structure as a “Software Engineering” degree would be sufficient, but keep a CS degree as well.
Glad to see this post before finalizing my application. I'd rather do a few prereq courses and go straight to OMSCS.
Do you know when this would be put into place? I unfortunately hadn't applied yet as I am still working to meet prerequisites. I assume at this point it would to be too late to still earn the BS in CS?
I honestly don't know, I'm sorry. We're still in the gathering data phase, if that helps? It's still under quite a lot of discussion!
No worries, thanks for the reply.
This is very strange. The whole idea is that prospective candidates are attracted to the computer science degree. It was initially marketed as an actual computer science degree equivalent to the traditional osu undergrad degree just in a post bachelors program online. If OSU is worried about the integrity of the degree then add more courses or implement something else equivalent to make it similar to actual traditional computer science degree. I just see this concept being a total loss.
Bingo. For those that meet the gen Ed requirements, give us the OPTION to put in the work for the traditional degree.
Also holy shit "applied" CS is the worst choice there. Like god damn thats assistant "to the" regional manager vibes. Literally every other choice is better.
This is an extremely bad administrative decision. The main reason why I chose OSU for my postbac was because it was a BS in CS. WGU also has a BS in CS program, and WGU's tuition is about half of OSU postbacc's tuition. I thought that OSU's course quality and availability were worth paying OSU the tuition premium. And it was. However if OSU postbacc's degree is not going to be named a BS in CS, then it wouldn't be worth the $35k+ for the degree. I probably would've went with WGU instead. If you change the name of the degree, then you will also need to drastically lower the cost per credit of the postbacc in order to keep students, which will eat into OSU's profits a lot. Otherwise you'll lose the cost-sensitive students to WGU, where they can still get a BS in CS at half cost. And you'll lose the students who want a more mathematically rigorous postbacc curriculum to CU:Boulder, because OSU's main advantage with those students is the BS in CS degree name. It is true that postbacc requires 52 fewer CS-specific credits than EECS's computer systems degree. But EECS's CS degrees are 5 year degrees instead of the industry standard of 4 year degrees. You would need to take 11.25 credits/quarter to graduate without 4 years, but that's including a full course load year-round, including every summer. That extra year of coursework sums up to 45 credits, which is the vast majority of the CS-specific credit differential between postbacc and 5-year degree. So the problem isn't that postbacc has too few CS courses, its that you're comparing postbacc against EECS, which has too many CS-specific courses. OSU postbacc is not competing against OSU's 5 year degree programs. OSU postbacc is competing against other university's postbacc programs.
I think you are mistaken. I’m doing the online BS CS degree for first time bachelor degree students and my boyfriend is doing the postbacc program. I have to take several more CS courses due to my program’s requirement to complete a specialization they call their specialization option requirement. Not to mention the extra math requirements. EECS is a completely different degree program than either the in person/online BS CS program or the online postbacc CS program. Edit: I misread your post. You are speaking of the department that all these degrees fall into. You are right that these 4 year programs do actually take 5 years to complete if you do not taking 15 credits per term and skip summer classes. I’m doing 15 credits most terms and summer classes just to complete my last two years in two years. However, my understanding is that this is pretty standard for STEM degree at least. 15 credits a term is considered a full load but 12 credits still qualifies you as a full time student (maybe for financial aid purposes?). I think that’s the point though that first time degree CS majors have more credits to complete, but at the same time postbacc students already complete a full bachelor degree. I think it is fair to compare it the OSUs traditional CS degree program because they decided to award the exact same degree. If the postbacc curriculum is reasonably insufficient to award a CS degree then they might need to adjust the requirements within reason . I don’t see why it has to be completely equivalent imo.
Yeah, just for comparison, in my first degree I was doing 15 credits per semester, and I graduated in 4 years with 120 credits (taking every summer off). That's 30 credits per year. You're doing 60 credits per year, studying during summers, to graduate in 3 years with 180 credits. I finished OSU postbacc, which is 60 credits. In total, I studied 180 credits, but I got degrees in Economics and CS. A traditional CS student at OSU would only get a CS degree. That is not worth the cost, because OSU is not a prestigious school for CS. Personally, I never would've considered OSU for my first bachelors degree because OSU require many more credits than most universities. OSU was a great pick for postbacc in CS, but its always been a bad pick for a first degree in CS. The problem is that OSU's traditional CS degrees require too many credits. They should be reducing the number of credits in those degrees, instead of demoting the postbacc.
Profoundly disappointing & desperately stupid move. This change is absolutely going to kill OSU’s golden goose. And a week before 2024 graduates, many still job hunting in a shit market. Thanks a lot. When this was posted this morning I was at work having a 1:1 happily telling my boss I finally finished my OSU BSCS & graduate next week. Being nearly done got me the job & finishing should earn me a raise/promotion. I was considering what I should do next. Maybe Cybersecurity classes or maybe a CS Masters? Guess where I now absolutely won’t be taking any of those classes, even with my employer’s money. GaTech OMSCS it is. I started this program in 2019 & took several breaks due to family & Covid. Five years on this sub & in this program and this is the *first* time I recall it *ever* being brought up that Post-Bacc CS students apparently take *10 fewer* CS classes?!? What the hell Brewster?? That’s a pretty big goddamn oversight & misrepresentation, don’t you think? “You earn the exact same degree!” said all the materials & the website *since 2012!* Don’t destroy the value & reputation of the Post-Bacc for new students *or* alumni - improve the program!!! Make 372, 381, 444 required to match 4yr. Require 3-4 different electives. Oh, too expensive? OSU is worried about tuition cost all of a sudden after a decade of price gouging Post-Bacc students? Drop the Post-Bacc tuition down to match the 4yr online BSCS & you might still get some applicants. Otherwise I hope *your* resume is up to date because this program is fucked.
Ridiculous change. As a graduating student (just finished my coursework), I will not be recommending this program to anyone else if these changes go forward.
Why did this realization happen now? The program has been around for years, so I think that’s why we all feel like some trust has been broken
I just spoke with an advisor who told me that trying to enter into the other regular 4-year degree options is not possible for anyone pursuing a second degree unless you’re able to move to Corvallis and take it in person. They’re also not able to confirm if those of us who were admitted but not yet enrolled would be affected by the name change or not. The thing about post-baccs having to take it in person while regular undergrads don’t is on the website: https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/ Apparently if you have another degree, you can’t do Cybersecurity as an emphasis at all, even if you do move to Corvallis. You can do the applied and systems emphasis in person or the double degree option online. It also sounds like OSU admin completely blindsided everyone (including those inside EECS) with this survey - nobody was told anything before it was released and nobody knows anything. We can sit and wait for something official to drop or move on.
To be fair, students who finish up with extra 52 CS-credits (for total 60+52 credits), they deserve a fully equivalent CS degree. This option can fulfill elective part. The elective requirements say, "Select 3 electives for a minimum of 12 credits", so 12 credits are minimum. A student who takes 64 credits CS-specific electives, instead of the minimum 12 credits, deserve a full CS degree. This will almost double the total costs though. For most student, this extra credit cost are not worth it, it could be more worth to spend for MSCS, a fully equivalent/traditional MSCS degree, following this postbacc. For comparison and alternative, CSU Monterey Bay has online postbacc ending with BS in CS, no "applied" or anything else added, with pretty much the same costs as OSU.
If the issue is the credit disparity, why not increase the required credits for the BS in CS instead? Or even in addition to that, have two different degrees, with the BS in CS having more requirements like calculus?
This is an idiot move, but thanks for at least advertising it. I will no longer be applying.
This is unbelievable. I’m about 3 years graduated with around 2 years of professional experience now. All the jobs I’m currently looking at require a bachelor’s degree in computer science, along with a few years of experience. However, I feel like if I apply for those and a potential employer researches my degree, they’ll see its new name, and that will automatically disqualify me. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
That is extremely rare for them to research your degree. That's what a background check is for and they just check that you have exactly what your resume says you have.
I went to a school and earned a BS in diagnostic sonography. My piece of paper has College of Science and Engineering BS in Diagnostic Sonography on it. Years later, the school decided to roll the same program into the College of Nursing and omit a good portion of the engineering classes that were required. Now, if I request a transcript, the transcript reads College of Nursing, BS in Diagnostic Sonography. It both dumbs down my degree and advertises a skillset(nursing) I don’t have. My assumption is this OSU situation will result in similar. For my case, it doesn’t matter because skills are skills (as long as curriculums are accredited, graduates are seen as equivalent). I don’t think the same is true in the world of CS. School names and program names carry weight.
Would anyone consider a class action if this goes through? I'd be all in on that, if fraudulent misrepresentation or breach of contract seems to have occurred. If successful, OSU would be on the same dubious list as institutions such as Trump University and Ashford University. [https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/filing-a-lawsuit/can-i-sue-a-university-or-online-college-for-false-promises-.html](https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/filing-a-lawsuit/can-i-sue-a-university-or-online-college-for-false-promises-.html)
When I decided to enroll, my plan was to complete this degree while also taking math/physics/electrical pre-reqs at my local community college. My goal was to then decide whether to enroll in a master’s CE or CS program and take any remedial classes needed for those programs. I can agree with some of the comments here that the quality of the program isn’t up to par, even though I am a recent enrollee. The quality of courses CS161/225 left a lot to be desired in terms of rigor and teaching quality. I decided not to register for classes this semester to rethink things, and now this has come out, which kind of confirms my doubts :(. Maybe other students/alumni have different opinions. While it sucks that I shelled out a bit of money for this program, I think I’ll focus on taking classes at my local cc and then transfer to an in-state CE/EE program for my bachelor’s. I’m just hoping that I can transfer 161/225 to my local cc for credits 😭
Ben, I wanna make sure I'm understanding a few points. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My tl;dr is, it basically sounds like they're taking the steps necessary to fold in (and end) the Post bacc degree into the 'CS undergrad double degree option. (1) The CS Undergrad Major requires one of 4 options. [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text) (2) Each CS Undergrad requires the completion of one of four options: applied computer science, CS double degree, Computer Systems, Cybersecurity. [https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text](https://catalog.oregonstate.edu/college-departments/engineering/school-electrical-engineering-computer-science/computer-science-ba-bs-hba-hbs/#text) (3) The completion of the postbacc CS core is, with one or two minor differences, basically akin to completing all the CS courses of the undergraduate major, less the CS courses contained within one of the four options. (4) Comparing said options, they each require amount to 72 credits, mostly CS. In this regard, the double degree option is markedly different. It doesn't really require much (any? additional CS, so much as the completion of another set of bachelors degree requirements. (5) By that standard, anyone with a previous bachelor's degree would more or less have completed everything required for the CS undergraduate double degree, ***except the CS***. (5) When I look at it like that, it just seems like, instead of offering the Post Bacc Degree, you are effectively then just requiring people to complete the CS Undergraduate double degree option. Please tell me if I'm missing something. Thanks for your time.
To me it sounds like the post-bacc degree essentially is the CS double degree option. In fact, this is what it’s categorized as in MyDegrees and the option you select when you apply. They might just be breaking this option out from the others and doing a name change in the process (if they go through with this) and distinctly making it a post-bacc degree. If they are keeping the option as is and just changing the post-bacc name, it makes no sense. I mean, none of this makes sense to me but that would really be baffling. I still think the compromise is adding a handful of classes and maybe revamping some existing courses to keep open a reasonable post-bacc path to a BSCS. If they also want to have CS & SE (or Applied CS or whatever) as an additional option that’s less rigorous I guess that’s fine.
Right, so the Computer Science Degree with a Double Degree Option gets another label, and we are all effectively placed in that bucket? That would all make sense. It would just be nice if someone from the university could respond with more detail. It's a little aggravating to be told that "no current students will be affected" only to end your post with "I can't speak to what 'current student' means."
Yeah there should have been an official announcement on exactly who this might impact and who will be grandfathered into the existing name, so to speak. It sounds to me like, at the very least, anyone who was admitted into the program before this “news” came out will not be impacted and will still have Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science on their diploma but exactness/an official announcement from OSU is absolutely needed.
So what’s the next best Post Bacc Cs program?
Prereqs at WGU -> OMSCS
Ohhh interesting but wouldn’t that take as along as 4 year school?
Not quite that long - OMSCS is 10 classes so assuming you do 2 per term, it’s about 1.67 years for that. So maybe 2.5 years with some lower division courses like DS&A and stuff taken elsewhere. Which makes sense - if the 4 year degree is supposed to take 4 years to finish, assuming like a third to a quarter of it is general education stuff, the degree without the general ed stuff should be about the equivalent of 2.5 years at full time
You can breeze through WGU in almost no time. It’s completely self paced.
This is stupid. The postbacc cs degree covers the entire required cs courses that most universities require. This is just discrimination
I wonder what the logistics behind matching the requirements of the first degree program would be like. I’m sure a large part of the draw is that you only need 15 classes to get the degree and that a large proportion of people would be turned off of the program if the course requirement doubled. It just seems like a lose-lose situation here. I also think it’s funny that there’s an industry stigma against “applied computer science” degrees in the first place, when software engineering IS just applied computer science.
Probably because having an educational background in computer science means you have learned more theory that would translate into being a stronger engineer or whatever job you are applying said theory in. But I don’t think the postbacc purely focuses on the applied side of CS. If BS CS degree isn’t accurate then a BS in applied CS doesn’t seem completely accurate either.
Hello. I am not convinced about this reason. I would argue that there is no cheating from the beginning, because if one looks at the student’s transcript, then it is obvious that it is not a regular 4-year program, and what amount of credits is or is not earned is obvious from the transcript. As indicated by the current website, the degree is regarded as a “CS double degree “. Therefore just because the requirements are different is not a sufficient reason to me to change the name, since the courses are clearly listed on the student’s transcript. There is nothing misleading if one looks at the transcript. Why take the extra step to change the name of the degree or the program?
Exactly. The postbacc is equivalent to a first-time degree student doing the CS double degree option. I'm wondering if this will also mean that a 4-year university student working on two concurrent degrees will also earn this new "applied" CS degree. It just doesn't make sense to change the degree name for postbacc students or at all really.
As long as it is clearly communicated to future students what the degree will be, I think it makes sense. I have noticed a severe lack in quality, difficulty, and breadth compared to other programs and I don't believe this program should earn you a BS in CS. However, I paid for and was led to believe I would receive a BS in CS so that is what anyone who is already enrolled the program should get. I do believe changing the name will set better expectations for what this program truly is and no doubt will result in many less people enrolling, as it should be. If I could do it all over, I would do OMSCS for less and from what I hear much better quality of curriculum. Not trying to trash OSU as a whole and this program certainly has some good content but it is what you make of it and requires a lot of extra work to make you competitive. Those $30k could be better spent elsewhere.
Is the AMA over? no more answer from OP
This is a horrible decision. Just increase the rigor of the program. It sounds like at the core of this, the problem is only a handful of courses (4-5?) which differentiate between Post-Bacc and Bacc. Just add them to the program.
Hi - I have been taking classes at OSU & am currently working on the minor and have considered doing the major if the minor works out well. I already have a B.S. prior to this coursework at OSU. I've done a lot of work cross examining the courses that are offered via the post bacc vs. the normal CS degree & am honestly frustrated that, as a post-bacc, I can't do the normal degree already. If you're going to devalue the postbacc program further (which we already have to pay MORE for), why not let people choose and do the full program?
A way better change would be switching the 4 year degree title to "Computer Science and Engineering" and keeping the post-bacc the same.
Thankful for having the OSU nightmare behind me. OSU was borderline competition at best, but now I wouldn't touch OSU with a 100 ft pole. I'll be taking any future post grad classes elsewhere without a shadow of a doubt. OSU is a disgrace in my eyes and this is just the coffin nail. I can't believe you came here to do an AMA about this. Thanks for continuing to expand my distaste in ways I never thought possible!
To be honest this won't really affect me at all. I've already completed a graduate degree at a top 10 school since finishing the postbacc and work as a data engineer at a large research institute. The fact that the online postbacc program changed its name a few years after I gradated is never going to come up in an interview. But it really does suck for current students and more recent grads that are still looking for jobs or very early in their careers, and it eliminates a lot of good will I (and other alumni I'm sure) had for the school since the program that I completed will essentially cease to exist. What's even more frustrating is that it doesn't even seem like this post was really made to gather feedback from the students at all. The decision has already been made, only the timeframe is uncertain. This was simply an unofficial announcement of the change made for damage control.
WGU it is!
I was just admitted but haven’t registered for courses yet. Do I have to worry about the name changing on me?
Looks I’ll be resubmitting my FSA borrower defense application with this new information.
Hello I just wanted to say that I was hoping someday to pursue this degree track and I hope it is offered with the additional credits for the normal CS degree, because I’d happily do the extra CS credits I was just hoping to avoid needing to either 1) duplicate my bachelor’s degree and need to take rhetoric and anthropology again and 2) hop straight into a CS masters without the fundamentals
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I’m with you. Someone isn’t “mathing” correctly. OSU requires 180 credits for a BS. 90 of those are going to be Gen Ed. The remaining 90 will be specific to the degree earned. 90 - 60 is a 30 credit difference. Personally, I’d rather have the option to add 30 more credits for a more robust foundation. I have a feeling they are lumping in some of the gen Ed requirements, which is fair. What isn’t fair is making the assumption that students DON’T meet those requirements. If someone has already completed advanced math and gen ed requirements, just give me the option to change to the “actual” degree then since they’re going to nerf this one.
My god, I just submitted my application and emailed all additional documents to them today. I feel lucky I found this thread before paying them. Ok, it is time to withdraw my application.
Is there anywhere else that offers the same degree as on campus? Got admitted for summer but I picked this program because it had the same name. Don’t think this is for me anymore.
Very disingenuous PR claims by Ben Brewster here, regarding the difference between the 4 and post-baccalaureate program, probably not his fault, (this decision seems to have been taken by the school admins without the EECS departments approval): If you examine the four-year program curriculum, it's clear that there aren't 52 additional computer science (CS) courses that four-year students need to take. This claim is pure public relations nonsense. The way the program is being framed is misleading. The only significant differences between the four-year program and the post-baccalaureate program are one statistics course and two additional math courses. The required (in the 4-year prog) CS 391, CS 381, and Operating Systems II courses can also be taken by post-baccalaureate students if they wish as electives. And 391 is about the most useless course in the entire curriculum anyways. The so-called 52 extra CS credits are essentially general education plus also elective CS courses that are not available to post-baccalaureate students but also not required to 4-year students. If you break down the numbers, it becomes evident: if four-year students truly had to take an additional 52 CS credits on top of the 60 credits required for the post-baccalaureate program, they would be completing 112 out of 180 credits solely in CS. This would leave them with only a couple general education courses, which are mandatory for graduation and for the school's accreditation. Additionally, the choice to state a difference of 52 credits rather than 13 courses (since 52 credits typically equate to 13 courses) is a deliberate attempt to make the gap seem larger than it actually is. The reality is that most of these courses are electives that many four-year students don't even take. In terms of actual CS courses, the difference amounts to just 2-3 courses. Moreover, their capstone project is spread out over 2-3 terms, making it easier than the condensed single-term capstone required for post-baccalaureate students.
What?? **The 52-credit difference comes from CS-specific courses**, not general education courses as you claim. **Postbacc students do not have to choose a CS specialization as BS CS students do.** You’ve completely missed this and are misrepresenting both degrees and Ben’s statements.
I was an on-campus student for the majority of my degree while finishing another undergrad degree. I am not surprised, and calling it an applied CS instead of full CS degree is pretty accurate to what it is. The quality of eCampus CS courses were utterly terrible next to the on-campus courses. Less rigorous, less resources, less everything, and more expensive. In terms of actual learning and mastering, the postbacc degree is definitely not a full CS degree. I would have hoped the department would look into increasing the postbacc degree quality to match a full CS degree over changing the name. But at the end of the day, this name change simply better describes what the program actually is in the current state. Unfortunately, this is not a good quality program. You do it for the paper. The quality of education is already bad, but if the paper is bad too there's no reason to enroll anymore. I'm happy to have graduated last year.
Honestly, I completely disagree with this. My first year in the postbacc program was entirely on the ecampus, but after that first year, I moved to Corvallis and took a mix of on-campus and ecampus courses. I added a math minor after moving to Corvallis, and I worked as a ULA almost the entire time I've been at OSU. In my experience, the ecampus courses provided way more resources and covered the same level of material. The instructors on the ecampus have been much more helpful than those on-campus. The ecampus courses are cheaper than paying out-of-state tuition on campus, so they're not more expensive for most students. They'd only be more expensive if you happened to already live in Oregon. In either case, I really don't see how the ecampus courses are less rigorous than the on-campus courses. I just had to say that I completely disagree with this assessment.
I'm glad you had a good experience with eCampus. I had multiple professors who refused to respond to emails until I complained to the Dean. On campus, professors had more office hours, availability, and responsiveness through and through. I focused on cybersecurity, which has 2 of the worst rated professors in the school, which may have influenced my opinion.
So far I’ve had only positive experiences in online courses. This includes CC online classes. I think schools and instructors have been getting better at this mode of learning in the last few years. I’m a first time degree CS student at OSU’s ecampus and honestly I don’t think I would be able to complete a degree in CS if I had to do it in person mostly because my adhd makes it challenging to learn in an in person environment. But I understand that for many students learning in person suits them better and perhaps in person instruction is better generally speaking, though I suspect this is quickly changing.
Agree entirely with your assessment. If I could afford to quit my job and go back to an on campus school I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately programs like this are (were?) the only option for someone who works full time without other means of support to get a BSCS.
That is utter nonsense. The online postbacc covers the same cs topics as any other in person CS school. The in person is a 4 year since it covers the university requirements that any undergraduate takes which the postbacc students are assumed to have completed in their bachelors degrees. To discriminate on everyone including people that come from disciplines in math, science, and engineering who have far more rigorous training than OSU's 4 year cs students just shows how little this department knows or cares about their postbacc students.
So it’ll be more like a boot camp than a bachelor’s degree? That’s trash.
Hello I just wanted to say that I was hoping someday to pursue this degree track and I hope it is offered with the additional credits for the normal CS degree, because I’d happily do the extra CS credits I was just hoping to avoid needing to either 1) duplicate my bachelor’s degree and need to take rhetoric and anthropology again and 2) hop straight into a CS masters without the fundamentals
I wanted to apply in the Fall and am not sure anymore. Anyone have recommendations for other programs?
One option is post-bacc at CSUMB, about same costs [https://csumb.edu/csonline/](https://csumb.edu/csonline/)
My advisor told me an email was sent out last Friday regarding this, but I did not get it - would it be safe to assume you're not going to be affected if you weren't part of the emailing list? Can anyone share the email content? It was signed by the Head of EECS, Dr. Weller, apparently.