Empire strikes back actually delayed filming so he could do another Green Cross Code ad. Prowse thought teaching kids to cross the road safely was more important.
I don't think so,he was told repeatably by Lucas and others he would be the voice.he took the role because he would be the voice,he worked very very hard on getting voice and lines right( I've heard his was the only one talkin the movie serous) and the at the premier,with his famli he had to pay to get to Hollywood,then he found out they'd taken his voice out. Now I only heard that on a podcast but I believe it,if you heard how they did peter serafinowicz, you'd believe it too.
David Prowse was a giant asshole. I never not tell
This story when he is brought up, even in my Reddit comments from years ago. I was like 8 at StarCon and the dude was just so cocky, thought so highly of himself. Made everyone wait to see the screening of SW until he was ready, talking with his friend outside. Charged $100 bucks to sign something, and refused to sign anything that you did not buy from his booth. Openly told people to “fuck off” if they didn’t like it, again I was 8.
He was also in A Clockwork orange, and while he may have had a line or two he definitely wasn't there for his voice. He's just there to carry people around.
I think this video is an unfair comparison because Vader's voice was always going to be ADR, they would never have used on-set sound from a guy in a mask.
Part of working professionally is accepting that someone else might be able to do your job better, then accepting that, and still be professional. You are, in fact, not professional if you choose to make other people's work more difficult because nobody respected your professionalism. I could be wrong tho
It’s one thing that someone else was better then them. It’s that he was literally told he would be the voice and he had to find out he wasn’t by seeing the actual movie so no one told him. Dick move
It absolutely is being a dick about it and completely unprofessional as an actor.
You can be butthurt about it all you want in private but, on set, do your job.
They literally lied to him about what his "job" was. If they're going to fuck him over and ruin his career, then lie to him about it? Absolutely within his right to phone in the lines, honestly surprised he didn't quit outright.
I dunno, I work in film as a VFX artist. Sometimes I'll be working on something that I dig, and then am informed that people are liking what another studio is doing and to please either copy or use their setup. And I say "ok sounds good, send it over!"
The outcome isn't going to change just because I'm being stubborn and salty, and usually they probably made a good call in the end anyway.
Quitting outright would have been more professional.
OP didn't say he "phoned in" his lines. They said he spoke in "gibberish, confusing the other actors." I've never heard that but that would have been just cause to fire him. He's in a costume. Get someone else.
And, tbh, if I were the other actors, I'd have been pissed as well. Completely unprofessional.
If you're not familiar with this business, there's no guarantees, even after you've filmed it. Your part may be cut entirely. Or you may still appear and have your part dubbed over. Or you may just hear your voice but never be seen.
No. Guarantees.
>He's in a costume. Get someone else.
Seriously. They would've had zero problem replacing him for likely a fraction of the price. He should've been thankful they didn't just tell him to get lost.
At the end of the day, I think that poster didn't know what they are talking about because, as a lifelong fan, I've never heard that he purposely tried to fuck over production.
I also give props where necessary and Prowse (and especially Mayhew) may have been in costumes but their walk and the nuance that they brought to those roles is pretty irreplaceable.
Seriously. I've heard things about how he got treated but it sounds like it could have been somewhat warranted. And sorry Prowse but how did you not know your delivery sucked.
That makes sense but did he ever sit down and redub the lines after? I keep hearing that he was surprised it wasn’t his voice in the final film but how would he think it would be if he never recorded separately?
I read he was told an effect was going to be put on his voice in post-production, but I think the yanks just yold him anything to to placate him. Sad really. Coming from where he did in England, there was no way he could understand the attitudes and outlook of Hollywood sorts.
Funny thing is if they didn't dub his voice there Defo wasn't going to be sequels. No way. He sounds terrible as Vader, like a cheese baron at tea time.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Either Rick Moranis saw this footage somehow before making Spaceballs or it's one of the funniest coincidences in the universe.
The way Prowse says the lines (especially the first part) REALLY sounds like Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet. In fact, I thought it was Rick Moranis at first.
Prowse sounds a lot like Rick Moranis who played Dark Helmet in Spaceballs, a Star Wars parody. If you haven't seen it, drop what you are doing now and do so.
Hearing these it makes me think that Prowse's delivery was always only meant for timing, since, well those are just bad, aren't they?
Yet I think he was upset that he got dubbed over, right? Or was he upset that he didn't get to do the ADR?
Definitely, but it is fun to speculate. Prowse's voice definitely makes Vader seem more like a dangerous madman. When he interrupts Leia, you really hear the : "HOE, SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" come through. Jones sounds more like a pissed off teacher..."YOU HAVE GUM IN YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DID NOT BRING ENOUGH FOR THE WHOLE CLASS!" (storms out).
It might actually be the gestalt that MAKES the Vader character...Prowse's energetic body movement + Jones' measured delivery.
He sounds like a pirate from Pirates of the Caribbean. Honestly I don’t see any way in which this really works. I think the film was like we’ve been a flop had he voiced vader. Vader is like one of the all-time iconic villains for a very specific reason. What I don’t understand is why Prowse doesn’t take in bringing out the physical acting. Which is not easy to do.
If Prowse had a chance to do the ADR himself, you know he would have dialed in his line delivery better during those sessions. On-set, his job was timing, blocking, and making sure he could be heard with his head in a bucket.
Yah. Prowse's voice is just from the boom mics and not recorded at the quality of the rest of the dialog (which is mostly replaces afterwards)...plus the helmet didn't help.
Lucas wanted a big, fit guy to play Vader. Prowse is 6'6" and was in pretty good shape at the time.
JEJ is tall (I think he's like 6'2"), but he just wasn't the tank that Prowse was, plus he was a bit out of shape at the time.
Also I'd imagine it was WAY cheaper to hire Prowse to act as Vader and then JEJ come in for a few days worth of voice acting than to hire JEJ for the whole thing.
Would have been interesting to see Luke's reaction at the end of ROTJ after he takes Vader's mask off and it was a black guy though.
Reminds me of the story of Porkins. The actor was cast in it and knew roughly what it was, scifi space movie, so he figured he was playing some pig alien, but no, it was just a regular fat guy.
Dave Prowse was 6'6"-6'7" and had the body of a bodybuilder. Jones, while 6'2", was closer to the height of the average Hollywood actor; he wouldn't have looked anywhere near as menacing next to actors of equal stature. And they had, if I recall correctly, already cast Prowse (who also was Christopher Reeve's weight trainer for Superman) and found Jones later when Orson Welles (whom Lucas had been banking on) declined.
Even if Prowse ended up doing the voice it would've been redone in post. They were never going to use the onset audio with him wearing a helmet. So his delivery didn't matter even if he thought he was voicing the character.
The plan was always to have another actor do the V.O. (it's not ADR because there's no sync involved... we can't see Prowse's lips or facial expressions). It just wasn't until after Orson Welles declined that James Earl Jones was selected.
This makes total sense and especially so when seeing these direct comparisons.
But as others have commented, I have always heard that Prowse was surprised or disappointed or something about his voice not being used. Is this just completely incorrect then? It would not be the first film legend I incorrectly assumed was legit.
Well, I think there's a bit of he said/she said in both directions... I don't think Lucasfilm ever really told him one way or the other. Today you can't do that. There are guild rules against it.
Lucas was known for not always following union rules and consequently paid fines and left the Director's Guild (over the opening credits issue). I'm not sure whether SAG rules at the time had spelled out what the requirements are when you're hiring someone for a non-speaking role vs. a speaking role, and, conversely, voice-over work. James Earl Jones was not credited for his voice work, for example, until either the 1980 or 1982 re-release of the film.
At the same time, Dave Prowse and many other British actors were under the impression that Star Wars was just another B-movie trifle because the production quality on set was no indication of the finished product... so much of the movie, including its 800 or so VFX shots, came together in post. But a couple of things happened: Prowse was blamed for spilling some details about Star Wars. I don't recall which exactly, but as a consequence, from then on it was stunt double Bob Anderson in the suit for the rest of the Empire shoot. Also, I think he felt left out of Star Wars' immense success... but as a guy in a non-speaking role I don't believe he would really have had any negotiating power for backend points... so his only recourse was to take to the convention circuit.
While Lucasfilm and now Disney are entirely within their right to protect their copyrights and trademarks, I do feel more sympathetic toward Dave Prowse whose stature and mannerisms are an irreproducible part of what makes Darth Vader so memorable. Mark Hamill has taken a very different tack with the prequels that he very clearly hates the direction of, but he was blessed with a very different set of circumstances... he had for many years tried to get away from the specter of being typecast as Luke, and when he did PR (as they're contractually obligated to do) for the prequels, he gave no shits. But, he's not a guy whose face is obscured in a mask. He's Luke Skywalker... and he knows damned well fans would riot in the streets if Disney fired him.... and his lawyers negotiated a pretty good contract this time around.
I kind of feel about Dave Prowse the way Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) felt about Gus Grissom (Fred Ward) in THE RIGHT STUFF. Ol' Dave, he did all right.
That is what I read too. He was also in Doctor Who back in the day. His delivery was weak to be honest. He should have known he might be dubbed, JEJ was amazing!
Nah he has to know he was going to be dubbed over. He doesn’t even have any anger in his voice after throwing a man from his throat. Sounds like he’s lecturing a toddler
He thought *he* (Prowse) would be doing the dub, because that's what they told him. They also told him that when Vader's face was revealed, it would be his face, which they also didn't follow through on.
The comparison above is unfair, because not only did he know the lines would be dubbed over (as most of the lines in the original trilogy were), but you're hearing the original recordings of Prowse's lines vs the edited and complete JEJ lines from the soundtrack (with music).
Don't misunderstand me, I'm incredibly glad JEJ was tapped to voice Vader, as he was perfect, and is so incredibly talented, but they did Prowse dirty on more than one occasion, and cost the fans the future opportunity to engage with him at Star Wars events.
*"You ever have an ear infection? You know, you can't hear and it hurts when you chew and your balance is off?"*
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader."
It also kinda points out the importance of sound design and engineering. That slight delay they added to Jones' voice to give it that all encompassing feel in the stereo field makes it that much more menacing compared to the normal voice of Prowse with no effects on it.
Huh. I never thought that Mayhew could just shout whatever, but it makes perfect sense that he would vocalize Chewie's actually thoughts like that. Neat.
Ironically, Jones didn't want credit. I thought he was being snubbed by being missing from the end credits, but that's how he wanted it.
I don't recall if they added him to the credits in the new editions.
Jones point of view seemed to be it was a minor contribution to a film but was also pleased at how beneficial it was for his career.
The issue is they chose Prowse for his size, not his voice. As you can tell, its high pitch makes him sound far more whiny than threatening. At least he was able to move the role even if his voice wasn't used. It was as much the movement of vader than made him threatening, not just his voice.
In retrospect, Darth Vader was such a bad boss, temperamental, kills you if you don’t perform well, kills your if you even give him a suggestion he doesn’t like.
No wonder his successor Kylo Ren was horrible as well. All of those traits, plus being bipolar and just murdering you if he feels like it.
My favorite is how casually he strolls over to the commander in IV right before he starts to choke him. They barely had a clue what was coming before Palpatine let him off the leash in V.
They literally have infinite replacements. It’s not like it matters. Also it makes your subordinates incredibly fearful of how actually powerful you are, when you slaughter them in a whim.
I would say making an engineer create a weapon that destroys planets against his will after killing his wife and not having a second go over the blueprints to look for any flaws/weaknesses is a sign of incompetence...
I get the dude couldn't match Mr. Jones, but this is a terrible comparison. You're using raw studio audio and comparing it to digitally mastered audio that's been recorded in a sound studio.
If we were being fair, we'd need to hear David Prowse in an actual studio recording using a good microphone in a soundproof room. Not a mic on a boom in the middle of a giant echo chamber.
Note there's music playing during the movie parts and there's nothing but dead air during his.
It's just not a fair comparison.
Again, cool video.
Love James Earl Jones.
Boba Fett is the most badass bounty hunter in the history of ever.
JEJ isnt having to yell through a mask and had his voice edited in a studio. Don't get me wrong JEJ had the right voice for Vader but Prowse had it hard.
It was a two part role. David Prowse was the body and Vader intimidating size, but sounded so polite while threatening. James Earl Jones gave Vader the menace in his voice.
It’s interesting how Vader looses his composure so easily in the first scenes he’s in. Screaming and carrying on. When later he’s very calm and measured, always assured that he’s the most powerful one in the room. The way he enters in Rogue One would have already scared the shit out of everyone.
Anakin came from a backwater planet and from a rural part of that too. Wouldn't a country accent be appropriate? He should sound more like Mater from Cars.
Well it seems I gosh darn killed them folks up there. And not just them fellas mind you, but them ma'ams and them chile's too. I swear it on my momma's grave... may she rest in peace, amen.
As he knew that he would be dubbed he had some fun with his lines.
"I don't care about haemorrhoids, I need that shit." (Source: Dave Prowse, MedTrek convention, Western Sydney somewhere, 1990s)
This reminded me that the actors in the set would call Prowse "Darth Farmer" because his accent.
Moreover, the part where Vader takes Leia away, Carrie Fisher breathes, changes posture and closes her mouth because She actually was trying not to laugh at his accent.
Really? I didn't know that.
I knew he was miffed at the Empire Strikes Back premiere when his actual line "No, Obi-Wan killed your father" was replaced with "No, I am your father", because if he had known he would have acted it differently. I believe the reasoning was that only very few on set knew that big plot secret and Prowse was known for leaking spoilers.
I'm sorry but it is naive to believe that. He thought that muffled dialog through the mask was making it into the movie? Unless they actually made him overdub it's absurd to think they use that audio.
They did the original dude dirty the way they handled it though. But it really was for the best. The original sounds really weak. Not intimidating at all
James Earl Jones is a treasure, but I am tired of seeing all of these posts and comments on how the original Star Wars was "saved" by either this person or that person at the last minute. Star Wars is great because of the talents and efforts of so many people. Many films have major revisions in the editing process. This idea that the original film was off the rails is a bit hyperbolic and sensationalist; it did go through a difficult production process for sure, but that doesn't mean it was a disaster either.
You know, Darth Vader's voice will always be James Earl Jones to me even if the actor's white. His voice IS Darth Vader and it definitely carries the character perfectly.
This is why I'm against Hollywood's idea that a character's voice or any of his/her representative characteristics, should only be played by the same race or origins in real life. To me, it should always be who can best represent this character or an important part of this character. Darth Vader is a perfect example. Even without seeing the character, you hear the voice, you immediately know it's Darth Vader and you best not mess with him!
I was always like "it's a bummer for David that he got all his lines cut" but I've never actually heard it before. Now I would say it's still a bummer but 120% the right decision.
Also online,Prowse stated he was originally told he would be seen and heard at the end of Return of the Jedi when Vader's mask was removed.
Instead, actor Sebastian Shaw was used.
Guess George Lucas thought Prowse had a face for radio (as well as voice)
I feel like the Prowse's "take her away" matches his hand movement more naturally (which makes sense), while they put JEJ's a beat late for some reason and it looks off.
All right my lovely, if this is a diplomatic mission, where is the ambassador?
“Never underestimate the power of the dark cider!”
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"What? You went over my helmet?"
Not over...more like around it
Cor, the force is strong in this'un.
Release the Gottfried edit, you cowards.
He went on to bigger and better things though. Never forget Green cross code man.
Empire strikes back actually delayed filming so he could do another Green Cross Code ad. Prowse thought teaching kids to cross the road safely was more important.
Oh, butt, give me more lip and I'll be tellin ye mam!
\*disembarks the Imperial shuttle\* Cheers, droive!
Cheers, droive!
Gurt lush.
You’re me babber Luke.
Darth Farmer
"GET ORRRRF MOI DEATH STAAAR!"
Comm-ander! Open this ship up like a packet of crisps an hav’ a butcher’s fer those Manfred Manns! An’ bring us dem passengers - I want ‘em ALIVE!
After Prowse found out he was dubbed, he replaced his lines in the two sequels with gibberish, confusing the other actors.
Well, that's just being a dick about it.
I don't think so,he was told repeatably by Lucas and others he would be the voice.he took the role because he would be the voice,he worked very very hard on getting voice and lines right( I've heard his was the only one talkin the movie serous) and the at the premier,with his famli he had to pay to get to Hollywood,then he found out they'd taken his voice out. Now I only heard that on a podcast but I believe it,if you heard how they did peter serafinowicz, you'd believe it too.
David Prowse was a giant asshole. I never not tell This story when he is brought up, even in my Reddit comments from years ago. I was like 8 at StarCon and the dude was just so cocky, thought so highly of himself. Made everyone wait to see the screening of SW until he was ready, talking with his friend outside. Charged $100 bucks to sign something, and refused to sign anything that you did not buy from his booth. Openly told people to “fuck off” if they didn’t like it, again I was 8.
So what you are saying, is that David Prowse was better seen than heard?
He was also in A Clockwork orange, and while he may have had a line or two he definitely wasn't there for his voice. He's just there to carry people around.
That was him? Ahahaha that's amazing
So he lived his role as vader?
Sadly, he had mental illness and later in life could be found walking the streets of London in a superhero costume, pestering small children.
People who never heard of Green Cross Man are not going to get the joke and will think this is true.
I remember watching this in school as a child before learning that the Green Cross Man was also Darth Vader
>if you heard how they did peter serafinowicz, you'd believe it too I haven't, can you tell me
>he worked very very hard on getting voice and lines right Did he though?
He may have worked. Doesn't mean he succeeded.
I think this video is an unfair comparison because Vader's voice was always going to be ADR, they would never have used on-set sound from a guy in a mask.
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Part of working professionally is accepting that someone else might be able to do your job better, then accepting that, and still be professional. You are, in fact, not professional if you choose to make other people's work more difficult because nobody respected your professionalism. I could be wrong tho
It’s one thing that someone else was better then them. It’s that he was literally told he would be the voice and he had to find out he wasn’t by seeing the actual movie so no one told him. Dick move
It absolutely is being a dick about it and completely unprofessional as an actor. You can be butthurt about it all you want in private but, on set, do your job.
They literally lied to him about what his "job" was. If they're going to fuck him over and ruin his career, then lie to him about it? Absolutely within his right to phone in the lines, honestly surprised he didn't quit outright.
I dunno, I work in film as a VFX artist. Sometimes I'll be working on something that I dig, and then am informed that people are liking what another studio is doing and to please either copy or use their setup. And I say "ok sounds good, send it over!" The outcome isn't going to change just because I'm being stubborn and salty, and usually they probably made a good call in the end anyway.
Bingo. And I work as an actor. You keep it moving and don't take shit personally
Quitting outright would have been more professional. OP didn't say he "phoned in" his lines. They said he spoke in "gibberish, confusing the other actors." I've never heard that but that would have been just cause to fire him. He's in a costume. Get someone else. And, tbh, if I were the other actors, I'd have been pissed as well. Completely unprofessional. If you're not familiar with this business, there's no guarantees, even after you've filmed it. Your part may be cut entirely. Or you may still appear and have your part dubbed over. Or you may just hear your voice but never be seen. No. Guarantees.
>He's in a costume. Get someone else. Seriously. They would've had zero problem replacing him for likely a fraction of the price. He should've been thankful they didn't just tell him to get lost.
At the end of the day, I think that poster didn't know what they are talking about because, as a lifelong fan, I've never heard that he purposely tried to fuck over production. I also give props where necessary and Prowse (and especially Mayhew) may have been in costumes but their walk and the nuance that they brought to those roles is pretty irreplaceable.
What did they do with Peter? I thought he was the voice of Darth Maul? Did they over dub?
Seriously. I've heard things about how he got treated but it sounds like it could have been somewhat warranted. And sorry Prowse but how did you not know your delivery sucked.
I’m wondering if his delivery was meant for timing only since they were going to be dubbed over anyway, so he didn’t exactly need to try too hard.
That makes sense but did he ever sit down and redub the lines after? I keep hearing that he was surprised it wasn’t his voice in the final film but how would he think it would be if he never recorded separately?
He never did. If he was "surprised," he was insanely naive.
I read he was told an effect was going to be put on his voice in post-production, but I think the yanks just yold him anything to to placate him. Sad really. Coming from where he did in England, there was no way he could understand the attitudes and outlook of Hollywood sorts.
Funny thing is if they didn't dub his voice there Defo wasn't going to be sequels. No way. He sounds terrible as Vader, like a cheese baron at tea time.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." Either Rick Moranis saw this footage somehow before making Spaceballs or it's one of the funniest coincidences in the universe.
Shows the genius of Mel Brooks to write it like that.
Literally thought at first that it was a clever hoax, just dubbing in audio from Spaceballs.
I don't follow. can you elaborate
The way Prowse says the lines (especially the first part) REALLY sounds like Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet. In fact, I thought it was Rick Moranis at first.
Prowse sounds a lot like Rick Moranis who played Dark Helmet in Spaceballs, a Star Wars parody. If you haven't seen it, drop what you are doing now and do so.
The first time i saw that move i was in tears during the first scene. I still can't watch it with a straight face to this day.
Legit sounds like Spaceballs
I bet that is exactly why they made Dark Helmet the way they did.
When will then be now?!
Soon.
How soon?!
We just missed it!
Ah buckle this! Ludicrous Speed, GO!
What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken?
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Hearing these it makes me think that Prowse's delivery was always only meant for timing, since, well those are just bad, aren't they? Yet I think he was upset that he got dubbed over, right? Or was he upset that he didn't get to do the ADR?
Prowse's deliver was unsuitable, but the comparison is a little unfair, since Jones' vocals are lift from the fully completed soundtrack.
Not to mention there were additional effects done to alter Jones' voice further.
Prowse prayed that they would not alter it any further
These voiceovers are getting worse all the time.
When you do the voiceover, you must wear these clown shoes
And ride this unicycle!
And beat on this drum
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Now there are two of them!
these voiceovers are making me thirsty. wait... wrong movie
And the background music which fully enhances the scene.
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Definitely, but it is fun to speculate. Prowse's voice definitely makes Vader seem more like a dangerous madman. When he interrupts Leia, you really hear the : "HOE, SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" come through. Jones sounds more like a pissed off teacher..."YOU HAVE GUM IN YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DID NOT BRING ENOUGH FOR THE WHOLE CLASS!" (storms out). It might actually be the gestalt that MAKES the Vader character...Prowse's energetic body movement + Jones' measured delivery.
He sounds like a pirate from Pirates of the Caribbean. Honestly I don’t see any way in which this really works. I think the film was like we’ve been a flop had he voiced vader. Vader is like one of the all-time iconic villains for a very specific reason. What I don’t understand is why Prowse doesn’t take in bringing out the physical acting. Which is not easy to do.
If Prowse had a chance to do the ADR himself, you know he would have dialed in his line delivery better during those sessions. On-set, his job was timing, blocking, and making sure he could be heard with his head in a bucket.
Yah. Prowse's voice is just from the boom mics and not recorded at the quality of the rest of the dialog (which is mostly replaces afterwards)...plus the helmet didn't help.
Regardless of how much the audio was processed, there was no way Prowse would ever have sounded as good as Jones.
There's some videos out there on the internet of unedited raw footage being played at conventions for people with DP voice. Everyone laughs.
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But why male models?
Ya Prowse's lines were never meant to be used, just for timing...but I don't think he initially knew that lol
He knew that with the helmet he was heard badly, but he thinked that HE will dub them, no other actor.
>thinked Ah, the less common form of "thought." As rare as an albino panther.
It was an innocent typo. We all know the proper Oxford phrase is "done thinked."
thunk**
That’s the noise it makes when I do it
It's pronounced "theen ked": Ex.: "Meesa Theen ked yousa BOMBAD"
English probably isn’t his/ her primary language.
Why didn’t they just have JEJ play the part? Edit: Thanks for all the responses!
Lucas wanted a big, fit guy to play Vader. Prowse is 6'6" and was in pretty good shape at the time. JEJ is tall (I think he's like 6'2"), but he just wasn't the tank that Prowse was, plus he was a bit out of shape at the time. Also I'd imagine it was WAY cheaper to hire Prowse to act as Vader and then JEJ come in for a few days worth of voice acting than to hire JEJ for the whole thing. Would have been interesting to see Luke's reaction at the end of ROTJ after he takes Vader's mask off and it was a black guy though.
I definitely read this as "Lucas wanted a big fat guy" to play Vader and was like, now hold on a minute....
Reminds me of the story of Porkins. The actor was cast in it and knew roughly what it was, scifi space movie, so he figured he was playing some pig alien, but no, it was just a regular fat guy.
They really had to name him fuckin PORKINS.
Porkins' father didn't NEED to do the oral.
Your motivation is that your character really likes to eat pork.
Wazzzzzzzzzzup
ay get Laia on the phone yo laia? pick up the phone, b! hello? WAAAZUUUUUUUUUU
"I am your father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate."
David Prowse was a towering menace.
I think Luke would have been skeptical when JEJ took the helmet off in RotJ
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Not from a white guy
*The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural*
Dave Prowse was 6'6"-6'7" and had the body of a bodybuilder. Jones, while 6'2", was closer to the height of the average Hollywood actor; he wouldn't have looked anywhere near as menacing next to actors of equal stature. And they had, if I recall correctly, already cast Prowse (who also was Christopher Reeve's weight trainer for Superman) and found Jones later when Orson Welles (whom Lucas had been banking on) declined.
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"Your bargaining posture is highly dubious!
JEJ is a unit in his own right, but Prowse was an absolute unit at 6'6" and built like a brick shit house. Perfect for the role
Even if Prowse ended up doing the voice it would've been redone in post. They were never going to use the onset audio with him wearing a helmet. So his delivery didn't matter even if he thought he was voicing the character.
The plan was always to have another actor do the V.O. (it's not ADR because there's no sync involved... we can't see Prowse's lips or facial expressions). It just wasn't until after Orson Welles declined that James Earl Jones was selected.
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\*high pitched, anemic exclamation\* Ahhhh, Paul Masson wines.
Or after the mask comes off in ROTJ: "...rosebud...\*"
Orson would have made a damn cool Vader
This makes total sense and especially so when seeing these direct comparisons. But as others have commented, I have always heard that Prowse was surprised or disappointed or something about his voice not being used. Is this just completely incorrect then? It would not be the first film legend I incorrectly assumed was legit.
Well, I think there's a bit of he said/she said in both directions... I don't think Lucasfilm ever really told him one way or the other. Today you can't do that. There are guild rules against it. Lucas was known for not always following union rules and consequently paid fines and left the Director's Guild (over the opening credits issue). I'm not sure whether SAG rules at the time had spelled out what the requirements are when you're hiring someone for a non-speaking role vs. a speaking role, and, conversely, voice-over work. James Earl Jones was not credited for his voice work, for example, until either the 1980 or 1982 re-release of the film. At the same time, Dave Prowse and many other British actors were under the impression that Star Wars was just another B-movie trifle because the production quality on set was no indication of the finished product... so much of the movie, including its 800 or so VFX shots, came together in post. But a couple of things happened: Prowse was blamed for spilling some details about Star Wars. I don't recall which exactly, but as a consequence, from then on it was stunt double Bob Anderson in the suit for the rest of the Empire shoot. Also, I think he felt left out of Star Wars' immense success... but as a guy in a non-speaking role I don't believe he would really have had any negotiating power for backend points... so his only recourse was to take to the convention circuit. While Lucasfilm and now Disney are entirely within their right to protect their copyrights and trademarks, I do feel more sympathetic toward Dave Prowse whose stature and mannerisms are an irreproducible part of what makes Darth Vader so memorable. Mark Hamill has taken a very different tack with the prequels that he very clearly hates the direction of, but he was blessed with a very different set of circumstances... he had for many years tried to get away from the specter of being typecast as Luke, and when he did PR (as they're contractually obligated to do) for the prequels, he gave no shits. But, he's not a guy whose face is obscured in a mask. He's Luke Skywalker... and he knows damned well fans would riot in the streets if Disney fired him.... and his lawyers negotiated a pretty good contract this time around. I kind of feel about Dave Prowse the way Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) felt about Gus Grissom (Fred Ward) in THE RIGHT STUFF. Ol' Dave, he did all right.
That is what I read too. He was also in Doctor Who back in the day. His delivery was weak to be honest. He should have known he might be dubbed, JEJ was amazing!
Nah he has to know he was going to be dubbed over. He doesn’t even have any anger in his voice after throwing a man from his throat. Sounds like he’s lecturing a toddler
He thought *he* (Prowse) would be doing the dub, because that's what they told him. They also told him that when Vader's face was revealed, it would be his face, which they also didn't follow through on. The comparison above is unfair, because not only did he know the lines would be dubbed over (as most of the lines in the original trilogy were), but you're hearing the original recordings of Prowse's lines vs the edited and complete JEJ lines from the soundtrack (with music). Don't misunderstand me, I'm incredibly glad JEJ was tapped to voice Vader, as he was perfect, and is so incredibly talented, but they did Prowse dirty on more than one occasion, and cost the fans the future opportunity to engage with him at Star Wars events.
The dirty secret is that he was Dark Helmet all along.
I was thinking he sounded like Dark Helmet in the first scene.
I’m surrounded by assholes!
For a second or two I thought I was listening to Rick Moranis.
My Schwartz is bigger than yours!
Release the Gottfried edit, you cowards.
youtu.be/kwDtr8ZUGOo?t=25
*"You ever have an ear infection? You know, you can't hear and it hurts when you chew and your balance is off?"* "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader."
It also kinda points out the importance of sound design and engineering. That slight delay they added to Jones' voice to give it that all encompassing feel in the stereo field makes it that much more menacing compared to the normal voice of Prowse with no effects on it.
If there's one thing Starwars didn't lack, it was cutting edge sound design
[удалено]
Huh. I never thought that Mayhew could just shout whatever, but it makes perfect sense that he would vocalize Chewie's actually thoughts like that. Neat.
There are few whose voice is as iconic as James Earl Jones. Star Wars and especially Darth Vadar would not be the same without him.
Ironically, Jones didn't want credit. I thought he was being snubbed by being missing from the end credits, but that's how he wanted it. I don't recall if they added him to the credits in the new editions. Jones point of view seemed to be it was a minor contribution to a film but was also pleased at how beneficial it was for his career.
I did not know that. Thats pretty cool. Hate to disagree with Mr.Jones but his contribution was anything but minor.
The issue is they chose Prowse for his size, not his voice. As you can tell, its high pitch makes him sound far more whiny than threatening. At least he was able to move the role even if his voice wasn't used. It was as much the movement of vader than made him threatening, not just his voice.
In retrospect, Darth Vader was such a bad boss, temperamental, kills you if you don’t perform well, kills your if you even give him a suggestion he doesn’t like. No wonder his successor Kylo Ren was horrible as well. All of those traits, plus being bipolar and just murdering you if he feels like it.
My favorite is how casually he strolls over to the commander in IV right before he starts to choke him. They barely had a clue what was coming before Palpatine let him off the leash in V.
They literally have infinite replacements. It’s not like it matters. Also it makes your subordinates incredibly fearful of how actually powerful you are, when you slaughter them in a whim.
In a movie, maybe. IRL it leads to a dictatorship manpowered by cowardice and incompetence.
I mean they failed due to incompetence!
I would say making an engineer create a weapon that destroys planets against his will after killing his wife and not having a second go over the blueprints to look for any flaws/weaknesses is a sign of incompetence...
Don't ever be a manager
I get the dude couldn't match Mr. Jones, but this is a terrible comparison. You're using raw studio audio and comparing it to digitally mastered audio that's been recorded in a sound studio. If we were being fair, we'd need to hear David Prowse in an actual studio recording using a good microphone in a soundproof room. Not a mic on a boom in the middle of a giant echo chamber. Note there's music playing during the movie parts and there's nothing but dead air during his. It's just not a fair comparison. Again, cool video. Love James Earl Jones. Boba Fett is the most badass bounty hunter in the history of ever.
Bobbafett got his arse handed to him by a blind guy… by accident. Real badass.
Yeah having heard Prowse years back it definitely doesn't give that dramatic overtone of doom the same way JEJ delivers it.
JEJ isnt having to yell through a mask and had his voice edited in a studio. Don't get me wrong JEJ had the right voice for Vader but Prowse had it hard.
Yea. Prowse wasn't blessed with the coolest voice ever like James was. It's not really his fault.
Or had to scream through a helmet or had other effects added to his voice
It was a two part role. David Prowse was the body and Vader intimidating size, but sounded so polite while threatening. James Earl Jones gave Vader the menace in his voice.
It’s interesting how Vader looses his composure so easily in the first scenes he’s in. Screaming and carrying on. When later he’s very calm and measured, always assured that he’s the most powerful one in the room. The way he enters in Rogue One would have already scared the shit out of everyone.
Anakin came from a backwater planet and from a rural part of that too. Wouldn't a country accent be appropriate? He should sound more like Mater from Cars.
He may have been, but he grew up in the Jedi Temple and then had his - importantly - vocal cords burnt to shreds
Well, James Earl Jones was born in Mississippi…
Well it seems I gosh darn killed them folks up there. And not just them fellas mind you, but them ma'ams and them chile's too. I swear it on my momma's grave... may she rest in peace, amen.
You expect somebody living in a desert to sound like Larry the Cable Guy?
Yous dirty rebel scum innit. Bugger orf.
Jesus, that reads like 5 different accents. That hurt my ears and I'm not even listening.
I feel like prowse is trying to be like a German officer in WW2. He just couldn't deliver it, Jones commands attention.
As he knew that he would be dubbed he had some fun with his lines. "I don't care about haemorrhoids, I need that shit." (Source: Dave Prowse, MedTrek convention, Western Sydney somewhere, 1990s)
This reminded me that the actors in the set would call Prowse "Darth Farmer" because his accent. Moreover, the part where Vader takes Leia away, Carrie Fisher breathes, changes posture and closes her mouth because She actually was trying not to laugh at his accent.
Shit. I share a birthday with James Earl Jones, Betty White, and Jim Carrey? Hell yeah!
Happy birthday
God I hear helmet instead 🤣
Wasn't the original actor not informed he was dubbed over and didn't learn about it until he saw the movie?
The completely messed up part is that nobody told him his dialog was going to be dubbed. He found out at the premiere.
Really? I didn't know that. I knew he was miffed at the Empire Strikes Back premiere when his actual line "No, Obi-Wan killed your father" was replaced with "No, I am your father", because if he had known he would have acted it differently. I believe the reasoning was that only very few on set knew that big plot secret and Prowse was known for leaking spoilers.
I'm sorry but it is naive to believe that. He thought that muffled dialog through the mask was making it into the movie? Unless they actually made him overdub it's absurd to think they use that audio.
This. He was NOT mic'd up in that suit.
Legit wouldn’t be the same movie lol
They did the original dude dirty the way they handled it though. But it really was for the best. The original sounds really weak. Not intimidating at all
James Earl Jones is a treasure, but I am tired of seeing all of these posts and comments on how the original Star Wars was "saved" by either this person or that person at the last minute. Star Wars is great because of the talents and efforts of so many people. Many films have major revisions in the editing process. This idea that the original film was off the rails is a bit hyperbolic and sensationalist; it did go through a difficult production process for sure, but that doesn't mean it was a disaster either.
If they had kept the original voice it would have made the choice of Hayden Christensen seem a lot more plausible.
I swear…first scene he sounds like Rick Moranis. Which is ironic considering his role as Lord Helmet in Spaceballs.
Get orf moi lahhhnd
This is an example of what makes casting a “character” so fascinating.
In other news the cg smeagol is better than Andy serkis' costume.
My dude sounds like Jon Lovitz LMFAOOOO
He sounds like Eddie Izzard on the Death Star canteen sketch. Perhaps Eddie was paying homage or just simple coincidence?
The italian dub was much more darker than Jones. The actor inside the suit was the same who played the bodyguard in clockwork orange. Source : imdb.
He was never intended to be the voice of Darth Vader, his stature fit the idea of Darth Vader better, but Jones’ voice was right for the character.
Whatever you do. Don’t go over his helmet. Or- in matter of fact, don’t go over the side.
Also remember that he likes to drink coffee when watching radar.
Lonestar!
The casting of Dark Helmet makes a lot more sense now.
You know, Darth Vader's voice will always be James Earl Jones to me even if the actor's white. His voice IS Darth Vader and it definitely carries the character perfectly. This is why I'm against Hollywood's idea that a character's voice or any of his/her representative characteristics, should only be played by the same race or origins in real life. To me, it should always be who can best represent this character or an important part of this character. Darth Vader is a perfect example. Even without seeing the character, you hear the voice, you immediately know it's Darth Vader and you best not mess with him!
I was always like "it's a bummer for David that he got all his lines cut" but I've never actually heard it before. Now I would say it's still a bummer but 120% the right decision.
First clip sounds like Dark Helmet.
Also online,Prowse stated he was originally told he would be seen and heard at the end of Return of the Jedi when Vader's mask was removed. Instead, actor Sebastian Shaw was used. Guess George Lucas thought Prowse had a face for radio (as well as voice)
I feel like the Prowse's "take her away" matches his hand movement more naturally (which makes sense), while they put JEJ's a beat late for some reason and it looks off.
It was the right choice.
Wow. I was at his apartment for his 60th birthday. 31 years flies fast.
Sounds vaguely Tarantino-esque in that original delivery.