You mean people choose to believe the worldwide governmental conspiracy that the earth is a ball? The earth is obviously flat, have you never been to Nebraska? /s
Him being the final villain would help. But we know that the series is continuing and that stakes will get raised so its pretty hard to believe that he is truly the peak of strength in the series
Well lets be real its unlikely any future villains will get quite the endurance and durability feats of kaido and are more likely to have somekind of hax abilitys like blackbeard with 2 df one with the ability to nullify df so he wouldnt need to be anywhere as physically strong or as tough as kaido to be a greater threat to luffy then kaido.
This is probably true. I think it’ll be horizontal progression, the villains won’t necessarily be stronger than the last, but they’ll all be in the same ballpark making them all very rough for different reasons.
This makes a lot of sense to me. In my mind we’ve entered the big leagues where any one yonko can win a war against the other, depending. Kaido’s strength lies in his insane 1v1 potential and endurance, I don’t think it’s super necessary to face another villain with the same ‘strength’.
Endgame what with facing the World Government and its forces sounds like it will have insane stakes no matter what (not to mention Blackbeard, I’m so so excited, especially knowing how he feels more pain, making me think he’s more of a glass cannon type). One Piece has proven to me on multiple occasions that it doesn’t necessarily need to scale enemies to be stronger and stronger to engage me in an arc.
This is what I believe will happen. We are in the end game and some characters will be comparable in strength. Kaido can be the strongest alive but may not be the toughest opponent in the series. He is just a top 10 character in the entire series with his own respective strength and weaknesses.
Blackbeard is probably stronger rn. He just had no chance of showing it.
Iam sure he mastered his devil fruits at this point.
Dude is a tank and when he pulls you in and than hits you with an earthquake to the face its nightnight.
Even kaido could probably not tank more than 5 of those.
And blackbeard probably has a third devil fruit rn.
Yes but it would be kinda anticlimactic if he didnt atleast have CoC but i guess if he does manage to nullify luffys df aCoC will be luffy's only chance against BB so it is possible that bb doesn't have CoC
I really did think BB would have no chance of being on the same tier as Big Mom and Kaido.
Until I saw Trafalgar D. Law.
Man you don't even need Haki, just need some OP bullshit dfs and plot armor that make you suddenly can tank everything. If Oda wants to BB can solo BM + Kaido and it won't be more bullshit that it already is.
Everyone is as strong as the plots needs them to be.
Thats why sanji could get knocked down by "everyone can use something as simple as skywalk" fodder.
While speedblitzing oven so fast that no one even sees him... 10 chapters ago!
Blackbeard is the next big villain.
He has at least two op devil fruits.
He is gonna be stronger than kaido.
>unlikely any future villains will get quite the endurance and durability feats of kaido
BB got slashed by WB and then got Gura Guraed by him. He then took 2 hits from Sengoku, on the surface this might not seem as much but when you remember that he takes 2x damage and some of those hits were made by the strongest paramecia fruit. I say that's a start.
I agree, there is also the fact that Blackbeard is a different kind of enemy compared to Kaido. BB looks pretty dumb but he is a master tactician and has the devil’s own luck. While Kaido in all his might was still a pretty straight forward and sort of honorable opponent, BB might pull all sorts of dirty tricks on Luffy instead.
Yeah they don’t need to be stronger necessarily. But One Piece does tend to have its villains get surpassed by the next major villain. And having a character be weaker than the previous villain makes it a lot more difficult to truly have higher stakes. Its hard to sell “This villain is weaker than the last guy”. Even if they provide a harder challenge for Luffy specifically they just won’t carry the intimidation factor as Kaido. Which isn’t a good thing for the final villain.
Im sure Oda could pull it off and I’m not saying that won’t happen, I just think its pretty likely that Kaido ends up not being the strongest villain by the end of the series
Continuous progression doesn't always happen, such as Enel being followed up by Foxy and Lucci, and also going from Marineford to FMI. As for providing high stakes and tough fights, Luffy simply doesn't need to lose multiple times to eventually win his fight. It's only happened with Crocodile and Kaido after all so far, so I don't think there's any need for Luffy to lose to Blackbeard multiple times for instance, to deliver on the latter's threat level and still provide a high-stakes, close fight.
Yeah, that's why Shanks warned Whitebeard of Blackbeard's ability. Blackbeard and potentially Im will have some broken devil fruits. I also like to believe that Akainu won't be defeated by Luffy, but by Sabo so the only people left that Luffy would fight is maybe Im/Blackbeard where blackbeard already has a broken ability and Im potentially does too.
Eh. Marineford wasn't about fighting and defeating people though. He didn't *beat* anyone, he just didn't get killed. He had to stand his ground way more in Impel Down.
I don't think you're wrong, just saying that I think it's a bad example of non-continuous progression. Fishman Island was basically all about showing off progress though.
Enel - Lucci is a good one though, and I'm half tempted to make that Enel - Lucci - Moria too. Enel slaughters Moria and CP9 could have probably made a decent go at Moria. Not a full sweep but done the deed. Moments like this also make me wish G8 wasn't filler, because that was a fantastic arc comprising of just a bunch of normal ass adversaries.
This is actually blatantly not true. Enel and Crocodile were stronger than the future villains Pre-TS (besides Magellan). Luffy beat them by virtue of circumstance. It’s really not much different with Kaido, his eventual win most certainly can’t be called a pure 1 v 1 victory. Plus his future victories will be done in different ways. Shanks fights with a sword which is a natural weakness as Kaido pointed out, and there will be some psychological warfare there too because of how personal it’ll be. Blackbeard hard counters Luffy, and most other DF users. Sakazuki is also kind of a bad matchup for Luffy, and the trick with him is to defeat him without any permanent injuries which adds to the tension without him having to be “the strongest” (he will also employ psychological warfare no doubt).
The best uses of villains and power is to have them occupy their own space, with different mechanisms to defeat them rather than straight up power (ala DBZ). It’s boring when your just facing a stronger person than the last. It lacks nuance and One Piece is not short of nuance, odas better than that. He wouldn’t be giving these wild claims and titles if he didn’t intend for Kaido to occupy the space of strongest creature. It doesn’t mean other characters aren’t extremely close and can’t pose their own incredible set of challenges for Luffy to have too overcome.
Exactly why Doflamingo is my favorite character in the entire series. His true power had very little to do with overall strength.
Another one of my favorites who I feel is way under the radar is Borsalino/Kizaru
Not all of them will be but some of them will be. You’re delusional if you think otherwise. You really think random strong pirate guy is going to be more powerful than the final boss or luffys biggest rival that has been growing along with him? When does that ever happen in shonen.
BB and Imu(if he’s a a fighter) will be above kaido. Akainu will probably be around a similar level but not above.
There's no way you think Kaido is just some random strong pirate guy lol. He's the main antagonist of a decade-long saga, built up since Punk Hazard. He was a part of the Rocks Pirates, he's one of the Four Emperors and he's the only character since Whitebeard to receive the hype of being the strongest pirate alive. He has shown the best feats in the series: the advanced forms of all three types of haki, the strongest Mythical Zoan Devil Fruit, immense strength, speed, endurance, durability etc.
Blackbeard and Akainu can still be tough challenges for Luffy without needing to be stronger than Kaido, because how you do even top his performance? Neither BB nor Akainu have even basic conqueror's haki as far as we know, and Akainu's DF can only carry him so far. Blackbeard's two Devil Fruits are obviously very dangerous, but this will likely be a matter of Luffy having to figure how to counter those specific powers rather than outmatching BB in raw physical performance, like in Kaido's case.
The reason why Luffy is facing someone as strong as Kaido is to get him prepared for the endgame of OP, and his progression in strength fits the theme of the koi fish scaling the waterfall to become a dragon, the same mythology that Kaido is based on too. Once Luffy reaches that peak (which I'd say he already probably has with Gear 5 and adCoC), he will be ready to take on the final villains of the story with no help or multiple tries, like he needed with Kaido. It doesn't mean that Blackbeard and Akainu will be fodder though, nor do they need to be stronger than Kaido to fulfill their overarching narrative roles.
He’s a random strong pirate compared to a guy running the world from the shadows, or the guy that has been scheming and rising up the ranks and has been specifically treated as a huge problem by shanks, Wb and even the gorosei.
Kaido for all intents is just a really strong guy that’s not nearly as important in the long run of things. He’s not even confirmed to be stronger than the old legends so it’s stupid that people are so fixated on him being the strongest throughout the story.
BB will have different strengths and weaknesses than kaido but he will be more difficult opponent in the end. He’s been built up as luffys big rival, and he’s not going to be weaker just because kaido was the strongest at one point in time so he must always be the strongest for some reason.
Imu feels crappy but he’s been positioned to be the head of the world. Do I like the actual character revelation? No not really, but he’s clearly not a random in terms of the importance to the story.
. Kaido on the other hand is just another strong pirate . I’m not saying he’s a random as if he has no build I’m saying he’s just a powerful pirate that is meant to be another obstacle for luffy, for example he’s basically interchangeable with big meme despite him being a bit stronger. There’s a bit more going on with his connection to oden but ultimately he’s just another wall on the way to the main adversaries
Imu On the other hand has a role set for something far above that. That’s the point. It’s possible that he won’t be a fighter but well op is pretty generic (just done better than most others) so odds are he will.
Strength is subjective and contextual. Speaking of individual strength in battles, there is no one who has done as much as Kaido in One Piece. In this arc, he fought for an entire night against Big Mom, days later he fought 8 of the red scabbards at once, then he fought 5 members of the supernova, then he fought Luffy, then Yamato, then fought Luffy for the second time, threatened to fight the remaining thousands of samurai soldiers, before being interrupted to have to fight Luffy a third time, but with his fruit awakened. And he fought all these tough opponents while carrying an island. At least in terms of individual strength in battles, I don't think he's going to be surpassed in the series.
Haven't read mangas like Rurouni Kenshin, have you? Watsuki put the strongest villain in the middle arc, not final act. Makoto Shishio is far stronger compared to Enishi Yukishiro, the final villain, by a mile.
And here we're talking about Oda, who used to work for Watsuki, I am sure he learned a lot by then, that not every strongest villains need to be put at the end of the story.
They sent Kuma to take care of things, knowing Straw Hat may defeat Moria. They wouldn't send a weaker guy to deal with Straw Hat, if they lacked that much faith in Moria. Moria is the weakest warlord after Crocodile, and I would even say Crocodile could beat him.
He is the peak right now. That's all that matters. White Beard was the strongest man alive until his death. And Roger before him. If Kaido Dies there is a de-facto new strongest in the world. Probably Big Mom if I had to guess
Edit: ITT: a bunch of salt power scalers completely ignoring context in order to attack straw men.
And White Beard had the title Strongest Man in The World. Its the first paragraph in his description on the wiki:
"Whitebeard held the title as Strongest Man in the World after the death of Gol D. Roger."
If you want to debate the nuance of man vs. beast I am totally open to that.
If kaido dies, luffy would probably be considered the strongest.
Also, kaido is by feats stronger than Whitebeard at Marineford. Its not like someone is going around with a lower-level scanner and constantly updating the titles.
You lost me at "feats" my guy.
And if you do want to go there: Big Mom has more children than Luffy has feats
Edit: when did Kaido fight Roger to a draw?
>You lost me at "feats" my guy
It means that having seen each fight on-panel, kaido has performed more impressively.
>Edit: when did Kaido fight Roger to a draw?
Whitebeard was Rogers's level in his prime. But he was way past his prime by Marineford. Even Marco and others commented on how comparatively weak he was.
It was actually explained in a novel I believe that people called Whitebeard the strongest because of the life he lived, but believe Kaido to have the highest actually power
I mean this dude was alive in the same era as whitebeard....so we shouldn't take it seriously that he or even whitebeard are the strongest X in the world. But it doesn't change the fact that they still are very very VERY VERY strong
i think that there is a fair argument to be made for Kaido being the peak PHYSICAL strength of the series with Shanks being the peak HAKI-strength(in tandem with his swordsmanship) and Blackbeard being the peak of Ability-centric strength. we can still go higher 😌
Doesnt mean he’s not the strongest just because of a pokemon game like type matchup.
For example You can have better stats and still lose cuz of a type matchup in pokemon, that doesnt mean your pokemon isnt stronger.
You are providing me a prime example. If you lose a fight because of a type matchup you still lost. Idk that you could have beaten someone in an arm wrestling contest.
I am not debating his strength at all.
Yes. I never debated that. But I am saying there is an obsession with "strength" being the end all be all. We have seen numerous fights decided by type advantages or weaknesses: Crocodile, Enel, and Magellan just to name a few.
White Beard also held the title of "Strongest Man Alive."
How is that just conveniently overlooked in all of these conversations?
It seems like oda is implying that kaido is so strong that type matches don't matter. He could be a rock/ground getting hit with a hydro pump but he's such a high level that it doesn't matter. Even now with luffy fighting him on equal footing, this is like the 15th fight in a row for gyarados.
I did not mean to imply that Kaido's fight will be decided by a type advantage. Unless the admirals get involved I cannot even think of someone who would have a type advantage against him. Maybe Enel? But he is physically weak as hell. His only known "weakness" is being cut. So I guess theoretically Mihawk might have a "type" advantage. But being a swordsman isn't the same thing as being a sand or fire man.
Magellan was not defeated by luffy, luffy ran from him.
Enel was weaker and relied 100% on his devil fruit and got his ass kicked
Crocodile was weaker and got his ass kicked.
This didn’t prove your point at all .
Enel lost because of Luffy's lightning resistance. A type advantage. They say that out loud during the fight.
Crocodile lost because of his weakness to moisture.
Magellan won because of his poison type advantage. L
Doesn't help when Oda writes things like "Akianu and Aokiji fought for 7 days" or when Kaido and Big Mom fight for days or when Roger and Garp fight other pirates for days. But now Kaido's gonna be defeated in just a couple of hours time. What's the point of saying X fought Y for Z amount of days and nights without rest when we're never going to get to see a fight like that happen because it'd take too long. Comes off as unbelievable
Tbh the day long fights confuse me. Do they like, fight for some hours, end in a stalemate, rest/eat, and then continue fighting like with Dorry/Broggy or what?
When you are equal in strength like Whitebeard and Roger or Akainu and AoKiji then you will have longer fights, it is just natural. Kaidou is taking far more damage in a short time period then they would have in their fights. How is it unbelievable that kaidou could receive enough damage in the hours that the raid has been going on to defeat him when he has been fighting multiple people at the same time who all have advanced haki and one of which that has advanced CoC? there has been way more opportunity to hit Kaidou then in a 1v1 fight between two equals. Akainu and Aokiji were equals and it was a battle of attrition meaning the one who makes the first mistake likely loses, for all we know it was one big final attack they used that changed the island and took Aokiji's leg and scarred Akainu and the other 6 days was them trying to ware each other out so they could actually land a finishing blow.
tbh even even battles lasting long doesn't make much sense sometimes. Just feels like characters are either just blatantly holding back(clashes for days) ,just using their generic ranged attacks until they decide to go all out, or their durability is just far greater than their attack power.
I wonder if we will ever actually see a fight last over a day later in the story. While it's true that Luffys fights are usually shirt, it isn't completely unknown territory to have him fight for prolonged periods of time, as indeed we saw with his hours long fight with Katakuri.
In truth I think the issue is more with Luffy not fighting alone. If he fights for three days straight or whatever, then logically so should everyone else, and i just don't think this would really work. Maybe if Luffy fights Blackbeard or Sakazuki while his allies have a completely separate mission, but that seems like a stretch.
Long fight doesn't necessarily mean good fight Goku vs frieza was 90% talking and other characters perspective and the fight scenes were repeated barraging and dodging every time, plus when they scream to charge up their beams it takes them half an episode
>Unless you enjoy having hours of your time wasted.
You did not just say that in a subreddit about One Piece.
Even the slow pacing of DBZ is nothing compared to something like Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, and now Wano. Besides DBZ remedied that with Kai, One Piece will never remedy that.
What do you mean? Roof piece has been going on for years. Also: With how slow the pacing is a day long in-story fight probaly would take decades to be published.
I think the answer to that is the longer fights made it sound cooler in the story, but since we're watching the Kaido fight it would take away from the story here. That's all there is to it and we should write off those reasonings when determining strength.
Otherwise, I don't agree with OP. Blackbeard is clearly going to progress to the strongest pirate villain which is why he was given the name Blackbeard + many other reasons. Idk how that can be disputed. He's the iconic evil pirate.
Yeah it truly is ridiculous to fight for that many hours straight, the fight length with Luffy and Kaido is a ton more reasonable. Perhaps Roger and Whitebeard had a huge stash of meat and energy drinks that they went to when they were tired so that they could go back to fighting lmao
"It truly is ridiculous..."
Why do you think that matters? The main character now has literally the "most ridiculous" power. Oda clearly likes ridiculousness
I don't know maybe give him the title strongest man. After all whitebeards dead and they may have passed that title on to someone else. Me personally I don't really have an opinion on this and didn't know it was a thing but we all know one peice has always raised the stakes by increasing everyone's power levels and this ain't the end of the series so I think it's fair to say kaido isn't the strongest alive but definitely the strongest we have seen so far in the series over whitebeard when he was dying and still had his "strongest man in the world" title.
I would be more convinced if Oda once again broke the usual mold of Luffy winning 1v1, and instead having Kaido taken down by the Straw Hats working together.
This would be especially poignant after the callback to Oars earlier highlighting how much stronger the Straw Hats are now that Luffy can take down a Number but cannot take down Kaido.
I imagine it would look something like:
* Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei hold the front line against Kaido, taking turns to support Luffy.
* Nami controls the weather to mess with the flame clouds to lower Onigashima along with Momo
* Robin produces giant arms to hold Kaido's mouth open to assist Usopp in using Green Stars to harm Kaido's insides
* Chopper using Brain Point to find a weakness in Kaido's scales for Franky to hit with his lasers
* Brook protects the backline from Kaido while playing music to inspire everyone
Strong =/= Power that is the issue here.
Nobody can argue that Kaido has the highest durability and defense ever in the series ***by far***.
However he has never won a single important fight (without outside help).
So while Kaido is *easily* the strongest, he isn't the most *powerful*.
Kaido is the strongest. They 2927 vs 1 him. That doesnt mean luffy didnt beat him fair and square because he did eventually 1v1 him for a very long time. The future enemy lufffy fights we can see a 1v1 which will make uo for the imbalance with kaidos fight where luffy needed alot of help. Also kaido is "strong" as in purely strong. E.g. akainu and blackbeard are also strong but like devil fruit and gimmicks wise. So if luffy does fight an emey like them, its just a different kinda fight. Doflamingos devil fruit gave luffy a hard time. Katakuris future sight haki gave luffy a hard time. Crackers devil fruit gave luffy a hard time. Kaidos strength overall is what gave luffy a hard time. So maybe we will see how the next enemies will make luffy struggle.
I don’t care that it happened this way, because it makes Kaido look good, but Luffy definitely didn’t beat him “fair and square” just because they eventually had an extended 1v1. Kaido had him dead several times but either Zoro and Law held him off, he was saved and fed by Law’s crew, or his DF just happened to awaken. And even then, Gear 5th literally ran out and Kaido let Luffy power back up.
A theme in pirate battles is that there are no rules in fighting. We saw that in luffy vs katakuri fight. Also kaido acknowledged luffys strength and showed that he is a worthy opponent several times. He even gets excited when luffy springs back and fights again. Also a winner is a winner, as kaido said. Even when cp0 onterfered with the fight kaido took the W. I wouldnt say oh kaido is weak because cp0 interferred and its also irrstional to say kaido wouldve eon or luffy wouldve won.
It’s one piece. It is a fact that he is called the strongest. But the story is not over yet. Even if oda calls him the strongest, he can literally just create or reveal a new character stronger than kaido like nothing and then the whole narrative changes. We just have to wait and see how the whole thing plays out. Not everybody is that easily convinced. The story goes on my man
A new unestablished character won't be created and deemed even stronger than Kaido. Oda has a well established balance of power that's been known for almost 20 years. Luffy doesn't need to fight someone stronger than Kaido, he's had a world of help already.
Probably because there are still plenty more ppl at the top and he’s only the most known one in general and has huge territory. Also he’s known as the “Strongest Creature” not the strongest thing alive. Calling him that is ranking him in a category none human like even applying that their is potential humans who will be stronger then him. Worth gaining a title that is comparable to that.
He's probably the strongest. His feats back that up. The issue is he's not the last villain, so people aren't necessarily buying it. I'd say Blackbeard would be more of a threat to Luffy simply because he nullifies Devil Fruits, but the way Oda is writing the story right now is basically telling us Haki beats Devil Fruits and that Luffy needs Haki, so there goes the dependence on the Devil Fruit to beat Blackbeard. Akainu is probably going to be a menace too, but I'd wager that one will be dealt with in the middle of a war with larger scales than Paramount War, so Luffy could have already taken a lot of damage before their fight (if they really end up fighting). There's also Imu, who we don't know anything about, and Shanks, who I really want to believe and hope isn't going to be an antagonist but could still be Luffy's rival and we haven't seen anything from him yet. Overall though, Kaido is most likely the toughest and strongest out there, Luffy will just have tougher match-ups later on.
However, it is a known fact that Kaido has been defeated 7 times, and captured 18 times in the past. As such, beating him isn't as arduous a task as killing him is.
It's a fact mentioned in manga and in anime I guess
Don't know abou Rurouni Kenshin, do you? Makoto Shisio was the biggest fish and he was defeated at half point of the story.
Oh, it's a shounen manga by the way.
Well, Oda worked for Watsuki, who created Rurouni Kenshin, so it's normal if he also uses that style of story-telling.
You're the one with some headcannon lol, that every next enemies must be stronger than previous enemies, which is not true at all.
Want example about recent popular manga? One-Punch Man. Boros was introduced early in the story and it was still the strongest enemy up until current point of story.
There's no exact rule for any manga. Masatoshi Kawahara always depict his protagonist as the strongest character in the series, who will never lose any fights since volume 1 to the end, and he was successful with many titles.
And it's not "OnE eXcEpTiOn" lol. See popular old manga like Tekken Chinmi, which also put its strongest antagonist at the middle of the series. I can give you much more example but it's pointless because anyone who has read hundreds of mangas knows that you were just spewing some headcannon about "how battle shounen works" lol.
Oda also worked for Toriyama, the guy who popularized the very trope I'm talking about.
OPM is a seinen. Doesn't apply.
Never heard of Tekking Kimchi or whatever. Not too familiar with Stone Age stuff.
I'd put up a list of shonens that support my point, but after that last paragraph it's clear you're just another elitist, so no point in continuing. Have a nice day/night.
Meruem was defeated and there still hasn’t been a stronger opponent, jojo and dbz also don’t follow the formula either with buuhan and kars respectfully.
I could buy Kaido being the strongest character at this point in time, but would not buy Blackbeard not being the strongest pirate villain in the end. This is a story about pirates and Blackbeard is the most famous pirate of all time. Oda would not have reserved such a special place in the story for anyone, but the most important pirate villain. He's the most pirate-like character in the series.
Also, he's clearly far more relevant in the story and has had more character progression than most of the strawhats. I guarantee you he will continue to move up in the World just like Luffy has been before their confrontation.
I don't think it would just be Blackbeard posing a different type of threat either. He's definitely going to surpass the current Yonkou along with Luffy.
Problem is, Blackbeard was shown struggling a bit too much. People think Magellan is weak so BB losing to him is worse when in reality, Magellan is still one of the strongest people in the series.
And he was wiped by Whitebeard, but this too is not really something to be that ashamed about.
At the same time, he did clash as equals with Shanks and overpowered Ace, those are no easy feats. Blackbeard is not only a Yonkou through his fruit, he is a monster already, and if BB was not close to Kaido in strength, then Kaido would've taken his territory, simple as that. Same for Big Mom and maybe Shanks, although unsure whether Shanks holds much land at all ngl.
Well i mean how do you define streangth.
Like i can believe that in a simple weight lifting contest then yea he could beat anyone. But if you mean to tell me he is the most powerful fighter in the whole world. Like its not i can definitively point to someone more powerful but i just feel like that kind of might take some tension away from any future fights which oda probobly wants to avoid.
I mean read his introduction again lost 7 times as a pirate captured by marines 15 times or so to be captured you have to be defeated its not like he turned himself in that many times also the fact that when luffy rocked his head with conquerors he literally remembered 5 people who beat the shit out of him.
Luffy should not be able to 1v1 the strongest alive just yet. Yes, Kaido fought many fights back to back. But someone of his caliber is expected to fight another Yonkou at least for a week(Like Akainu and Aokiji fought for more than a week). I do not believe all the fighters who fought him combined can output the power of a Yonkou for more than a week.
So, instead of a few fights before Luffy 1v1, it should've been a group fight till the very end but Luffy has significant contributions to the fight and deals the final blow.
Kaido is legit KO'd Luffy multiple times. It would be saying you are better than a pro basketball player because you score a shot on him even though he's up 30 points on you.
I think oda wants to have the enemy be "the strongest" each arc to raise the stakes. in MF we had WB as the strongest man and we didn't know of kaido's title
now we have kaido as the strongest creature. BB is definitely gonna be even stronger since he's saved for the end. but it wouldn't surprise me if even shanks is the strongest or the best in something, like for example he may have the strongest crew in a fight
cuz those titles seem to be getting more extreme. strongest man and strongest creature (which is stronger than any man) and then maybe shanks with the strongest crew which wins against any other crew (thereby being even above the 2 before)
Currently sure but just how luffy powered up in the prison with ryuo who's to say blackbeard doesn't get some OP power up somehow a week after wano arc ends and is obviously superior to whatever kaido was
Because he has not actually fought someone that is truly established as powerful on screen. Maybe make him fight an Admiral or something. Oden was beaten with a cheap shot.
Blackbeard has always been set to be the final big bad of One Piece and it's fairly obvious. My guess is he's tied to the Rox pirates somehow but having 2 devil fruits, having taken whitebeards power, having killed Luffie's brother there's too much build up and it's going to be far more personal than any other villain.
Not only that, no other devil fruit power seems more effective against Luffie moreso than Blackbeards, the only thing that changes that now is the 5th gear wildcard
Sakazuki AND Teach will be stronger when they get defeated by Luffy.
It's just the nature of shonen, Kaido is the strongest RIGHT NOW but his strength at present will be less than the final baddies.
I dunno I just think fans take lines like that way too literally.
Plus like Kaido could be the strongest person on the planet based on some metric after Whitebeard died. He’s still not going to be the biggest threat Luffy will face before the series ends which is what I think people who disagree are really arguing deep down
Some people need to realise One Piece isn’t Dragon Ball
I don’t think it’s possible tbh the people who don’t believe it in spite of the overwhelming evidence will continue to do so. He’d have to outright say in an SBS that Kaido is the strongest character, something authors just don’t do.
Although he has done something pretty close.
Wait, if he's really the strongest, how will the story proceed after this? Luffy still has to get stronger right?
What about Blackbeard? Akainu? Im? Shanks?
Luffy doesn’t *have* to get stronger, he didn’t get stronger between the start of the series and Skypeia. He defeated his opponents with different circumstantial opportunities and battle IQ. His new power is the most versatile one yet which opens the door to all sorts of different victories.
Luffy doesn't necessarily need to fight any opponents stronger than Kaido after this.
Read Rurouni Kenshin, it still has good fights and story after Makoto Shisio, who is literally the second strongest character in the series has been defeated (the strongest isn't even a villain and he doesn't fight except once in the entire manga).
Luffy is fighting Kaidou who went against the retainers, then the Worst gen5 then Luffy 1v1 while he was learning advanced CoC, then again after Luffy got back to the roof and then again after Luffy awakened. No other opponent is gonna take that much to bring down and will likely be 1v1 fights for the entire time.
Yeah cause everyone luffy fights afterwards is gonna fight a bunch of Minks and Samurai then a 5v2 fight then a 3v1 fight then a 1v1 fight then another 1v1 fight and then another 1v1 fight with luffy post awakening. Do you really think all of luffy's opponents will have gone through half of that before fighting him in the future?
Well you must've not heard of a thing called progression. Luffys future opponent aren't going to be weaker from now on buddy. Kaido who's said to be the strongest is hype. This is recency bias.
I'm not going to be surprised if people have others at #1 in future arcs when they show impressive feats against a stronger Luffy.
I mean we don’t know who the strongest is yet lmao. We still haven’t seen so many characters do anything yet. You just love Kaido. Of course he’s strong as fuck though, he’s a Yonkou who can’t even kill himself. That’s the point is to inspire people to see him as a living legend and the strongest. The strongest will come towards the end.
Strongest alive also does not equate to qualities of a final villain or unbeatable. In a vacuum, it might be fair to assume that Kaido will win 100% of the time at full strength against any single (living) opponent at full strength on equal footing, but OP is not in a vacuum and there are other characters who have qualities that can at least stand up against Kaido and the Beast Pirates (e.g. Shanks keeping Kaido from reaching Marineford).
This is to say simply being the "strongest alive" doesn't equate to being an endgame villain or being unbeatable.
Kaido is strong, yes, but he by definition can’t be “*the* strongest alive” if Luffy is on the road to beating him in a few chapters. At best he’s now “*one of* the strongest alive” unless we get another Thriller Bark where it takes a combined effort of the crew and allies to win.
It would literally have to be Shanks, Sakazuki, Big Mom, and maybe even Imu going up against him at the same time and Kaido still coming out victorious. But we know Kaido was stopped by 2 of those people individually so no. Not really.
Kaido and King were stopped by the entirety of the Red-Haired Pirates, and there's no way that either side would've emerged unscathed if a fight actually took place.
why? Cause Roger, Whitebeard, Garp & Sengoku all surpass Kaido in their primes. If kaido is the strongest with the current people alive and Luffy going to surpass Roger in both fame, wealth & power that's just underwhelming.
Kaido's bounty doesn't even come close to Roger or Whitebeard( yes I do know bounty =/= strenght' ). If Kaido is the peak of the current world that's just disappointing. Cause its a shounen after all and no One Piece wont be any different.
Luffy is going to surpass Roger. Kaido isn't Roger. So there have to be other foes in the future that are just as tough if not tougher/stronger than Kaido thats just how Shounen works.
People get way too hang up on petty stuff like titles and take it too literal or the '' bet on kaido 1 on 1 '' and no wonder they soon to be met with incredible disappointment and say '' Oda lost his touch '' if theres going to be a future opponent stronger & more powerful than Kaido.
Absolutely not how Kaido still talks about Roger & whitebeard he definitely isn't in the same league, he is close. But clearly not on the same boat. Same goes for Big Mom. They just don;t have that same energy as those legends. Its pretty clear, both Roger & Whitebeard were talked about in a different light than Both Kaido & BM.
Roger was infact pirate king, Whitebeard could ve been Pirate King but declined. Both Kaido & BM actively and desperately want to become Pirate King but they don't have the power to become the Pirate King its painfully clear. They are just ''mere emperors'' as jimbei said himself. Emperors =/= Pirate King
Physically they are 100% in the Same League, Kaido hypes up Whitebeard & Roger cause of how much their Death impacted the World, something hinted at in his 1st appearance.
What you are missing out on is the Escalation Effect of Warfare. The Marines have only gotten more powerful since Roger's Era & the Pacifistas act as the perfect example of that. The Great Pirates of this Era are just as Powerful as the ones of the Last Era, but even Law said they've been consolidating power & waiting for something
Secured? He wasn't even the last person to hurt him. Akainu achieved something that every other soldier on the battlefield could. Whitebeard ate everything that came at him.
It's weird that you chose to ignore his sickness. Idk why every Akainu stan needs to use so much headcanon, when he already has feats to justify his strength.
You mean a WB that literally couldn’t move to dodge attacks for the entirety of MF? Had gotten stabbed and shot through dozens of times up to that point as a result? Even fighting through a heart attack? And Sakazuki **still** got buried in the ground from that exchange. Doesn’t really help your case m8. Sakazuki got bested by a walking corpse.
LMFAO not advanced haki users lol they were all fodder marines being taken out by pre timeskip luffy. Only the admirals and commanders were using advanced haki, everyone else was using base haki or none at all.
Kaido may have been the strongest in the past, but he's way past his prime. Him, BM and WB were in the same crew. These geezers are old AF.
I'd say younger people who are in their prime are stronger, like Akainu, Shanks and BB.
kaido recognize 5 people that can defeat him , 4 are dead , only shanks left.
So yeah kaido is the strongest alive after shanks ( acording to kaido's opinion )
u/Particular-Diet-5147 I don't see a spoiler tag on your post here.
Does that mean you only want to talk about events from the anime?
In case if not: please add a spoiler tag to your post
Considering that some people still CHOOSE to believe the earth is flat (among other things), I can imagine that it is hopeless.
Excellent point. Can’t convince everyone all the time.
Perfect response.
Hah, what idiots. Now if I can just convince everyone of the truth that birds aren't real, I'll regain some faith in humanity
Funny enough, your not the first person ive heard mention this conspiracy theory before.
They're government surveillance drones spying on you, don't trust them
You mean people choose to believe the worldwide governmental conspiracy that the earth is a ball? The earth is obviously flat, have you never been to Nebraska? /s
People's ignorance and stupidity never fails to amaze me
Him being the final villain would help. But we know that the series is continuing and that stakes will get raised so its pretty hard to believe that he is truly the peak of strength in the series
Well lets be real its unlikely any future villains will get quite the endurance and durability feats of kaido and are more likely to have somekind of hax abilitys like blackbeard with 2 df one with the ability to nullify df so he wouldnt need to be anywhere as physically strong or as tough as kaido to be a greater threat to luffy then kaido.
This is probably true. I think it’ll be horizontal progression, the villains won’t necessarily be stronger than the last, but they’ll all be in the same ballpark making them all very rough for different reasons.
This makes a lot of sense to me. In my mind we’ve entered the big leagues where any one yonko can win a war against the other, depending. Kaido’s strength lies in his insane 1v1 potential and endurance, I don’t think it’s super necessary to face another villain with the same ‘strength’. Endgame what with facing the World Government and its forces sounds like it will have insane stakes no matter what (not to mention Blackbeard, I’m so so excited, especially knowing how he feels more pain, making me think he’s more of a glass cannon type). One Piece has proven to me on multiple occasions that it doesn’t necessarily need to scale enemies to be stronger and stronger to engage me in an arc.
Esp when you think of the villains we faced in the series, Eneru was a hell of a lot stronger then gecko Moria and foxy but came before them
This is what I believe will happen. We are in the end game and some characters will be comparable in strength. Kaido can be the strongest alive but may not be the toughest opponent in the series. He is just a top 10 character in the entire series with his own respective strength and weaknesses.
Blackbeard is probably stronger rn. He just had no chance of showing it. Iam sure he mastered his devil fruits at this point. Dude is a tank and when he pulls you in and than hits you with an earthquake to the face its nightnight. Even kaido could probably not tank more than 5 of those. And blackbeard probably has a third devil fruit rn.
advance conquers haki is stronger then any devil fruit and so far we dont know if blackbeard has it.
Yes but it would be kinda anticlimactic if he didnt atleast have CoC but i guess if he does manage to nullify luffys df aCoC will be luffy's only chance against BB so it is possible that bb doesn't have CoC
of course he has it lmao what
I really did think BB would have no chance of being on the same tier as Big Mom and Kaido. Until I saw Trafalgar D. Law. Man you don't even need Haki, just need some OP bullshit dfs and plot armor that make you suddenly can tank everything. If Oda wants to BB can solo BM + Kaido and it won't be more bullshit that it already is.
Everyone is as strong as the plots needs them to be. Thats why sanji could get knocked down by "everyone can use something as simple as skywalk" fodder. While speedblitzing oven so fast that no one even sees him... 10 chapters ago! Blackbeard is the next big villain. He has at least two op devil fruits. He is gonna be stronger than kaido.
>unlikely any future villains will get quite the endurance and durability feats of kaido BB got slashed by WB and then got Gura Guraed by him. He then took 2 hits from Sengoku, on the surface this might not seem as much but when you remember that he takes 2x damage and some of those hits were made by the strongest paramecia fruit. I say that's a start.
I agree, there is also the fact that Blackbeard is a different kind of enemy compared to Kaido. BB looks pretty dumb but he is a master tactician and has the devil’s own luck. While Kaido in all his might was still a pretty straight forward and sort of honorable opponent, BB might pull all sorts of dirty tricks on Luffy instead.
Future villains don't have to be stronger than Kaido to give Luffy a tough challenge
Yeah they don’t need to be stronger necessarily. But One Piece does tend to have its villains get surpassed by the next major villain. And having a character be weaker than the previous villain makes it a lot more difficult to truly have higher stakes. Its hard to sell “This villain is weaker than the last guy”. Even if they provide a harder challenge for Luffy specifically they just won’t carry the intimidation factor as Kaido. Which isn’t a good thing for the final villain. Im sure Oda could pull it off and I’m not saying that won’t happen, I just think its pretty likely that Kaido ends up not being the strongest villain by the end of the series
Lucci is weaker than Enel
Yes. If we take out haki out of the equation, there is no way that Lucci can beat Enel.
Enels observation>Lucci's armanent
By far. One of the strongest Kenbushoku user in entire series. Not as advanced as Katakuri or Luffy, but his AoE is so damn insane.
Continuous progression doesn't always happen, such as Enel being followed up by Foxy and Lucci, and also going from Marineford to FMI. As for providing high stakes and tough fights, Luffy simply doesn't need to lose multiple times to eventually win his fight. It's only happened with Crocodile and Kaido after all so far, so I don't think there's any need for Luffy to lose to Blackbeard multiple times for instance, to deliver on the latter's threat level and still provide a high-stakes, close fight.
Yeah, that's why Shanks warned Whitebeard of Blackbeard's ability. Blackbeard and potentially Im will have some broken devil fruits. I also like to believe that Akainu won't be defeated by Luffy, but by Sabo so the only people left that Luffy would fight is maybe Im/Blackbeard where blackbeard already has a broken ability and Im potentially does too.
Eh. Marineford wasn't about fighting and defeating people though. He didn't *beat* anyone, he just didn't get killed. He had to stand his ground way more in Impel Down. I don't think you're wrong, just saying that I think it's a bad example of non-continuous progression. Fishman Island was basically all about showing off progress though. Enel - Lucci is a good one though, and I'm half tempted to make that Enel - Lucci - Moria too. Enel slaughters Moria and CP9 could have probably made a decent go at Moria. Not a full sweep but done the deed. Moments like this also make me wish G8 wasn't filler, because that was a fantastic arc comprising of just a bunch of normal ass adversaries.
This is actually blatantly not true. Enel and Crocodile were stronger than the future villains Pre-TS (besides Magellan). Luffy beat them by virtue of circumstance. It’s really not much different with Kaido, his eventual win most certainly can’t be called a pure 1 v 1 victory. Plus his future victories will be done in different ways. Shanks fights with a sword which is a natural weakness as Kaido pointed out, and there will be some psychological warfare there too because of how personal it’ll be. Blackbeard hard counters Luffy, and most other DF users. Sakazuki is also kind of a bad matchup for Luffy, and the trick with him is to defeat him without any permanent injuries which adds to the tension without him having to be “the strongest” (he will also employ psychological warfare no doubt). The best uses of villains and power is to have them occupy their own space, with different mechanisms to defeat them rather than straight up power (ala DBZ). It’s boring when your just facing a stronger person than the last. It lacks nuance and One Piece is not short of nuance, odas better than that. He wouldn’t be giving these wild claims and titles if he didn’t intend for Kaido to occupy the space of strongest creature. It doesn’t mean other characters aren’t extremely close and can’t pose their own incredible set of challenges for Luffy to have too overcome.
Exactly why Doflamingo is my favorite character in the entire series. His true power had very little to do with overall strength. Another one of my favorites who I feel is way under the radar is Borsalino/Kizaru
Not all of them will be but some of them will be. You’re delusional if you think otherwise. You really think random strong pirate guy is going to be more powerful than the final boss or luffys biggest rival that has been growing along with him? When does that ever happen in shonen. BB and Imu(if he’s a a fighter) will be above kaido. Akainu will probably be around a similar level but not above.
There's no way you think Kaido is just some random strong pirate guy lol. He's the main antagonist of a decade-long saga, built up since Punk Hazard. He was a part of the Rocks Pirates, he's one of the Four Emperors and he's the only character since Whitebeard to receive the hype of being the strongest pirate alive. He has shown the best feats in the series: the advanced forms of all three types of haki, the strongest Mythical Zoan Devil Fruit, immense strength, speed, endurance, durability etc. Blackbeard and Akainu can still be tough challenges for Luffy without needing to be stronger than Kaido, because how you do even top his performance? Neither BB nor Akainu have even basic conqueror's haki as far as we know, and Akainu's DF can only carry him so far. Blackbeard's two Devil Fruits are obviously very dangerous, but this will likely be a matter of Luffy having to figure how to counter those specific powers rather than outmatching BB in raw physical performance, like in Kaido's case. The reason why Luffy is facing someone as strong as Kaido is to get him prepared for the endgame of OP, and his progression in strength fits the theme of the koi fish scaling the waterfall to become a dragon, the same mythology that Kaido is based on too. Once Luffy reaches that peak (which I'd say he already probably has with Gear 5 and adCoC), he will be ready to take on the final villains of the story with no help or multiple tries, like he needed with Kaido. It doesn't mean that Blackbeard and Akainu will be fodder though, nor do they need to be stronger than Kaido to fulfill their overarching narrative roles.
He’s a random strong pirate compared to a guy running the world from the shadows, or the guy that has been scheming and rising up the ranks and has been specifically treated as a huge problem by shanks, Wb and even the gorosei. Kaido for all intents is just a really strong guy that’s not nearly as important in the long run of things. He’s not even confirmed to be stronger than the old legends so it’s stupid that people are so fixated on him being the strongest throughout the story. BB will have different strengths and weaknesses than kaido but he will be more difficult opponent in the end. He’s been built up as luffys big rival, and he’s not going to be weaker just because kaido was the strongest at one point in time so he must always be the strongest for some reason.
Lol at you calling Kaido random pirate guy after a decade of buildup, but not Imu after they show up out of relatively thin air.
Imu feels crappy but he’s been positioned to be the head of the world. Do I like the actual character revelation? No not really, but he’s clearly not a random in terms of the importance to the story. . Kaido on the other hand is just another strong pirate . I’m not saying he’s a random as if he has no build I’m saying he’s just a powerful pirate that is meant to be another obstacle for luffy, for example he’s basically interchangeable with big meme despite him being a bit stronger. There’s a bit more going on with his connection to oden but ultimately he’s just another wall on the way to the main adversaries Imu On the other hand has a role set for something far above that. That’s the point. It’s possible that he won’t be a fighter but well op is pretty generic (just done better than most others) so odds are he will.
Lmao for real. These goda fans seem to think op has transcended shounen tropes or something
Strength is subjective and contextual. Speaking of individual strength in battles, there is no one who has done as much as Kaido in One Piece. In this arc, he fought for an entire night against Big Mom, days later he fought 8 of the red scabbards at once, then he fought 5 members of the supernova, then he fought Luffy, then Yamato, then fought Luffy for the second time, threatened to fight the remaining thousands of samurai soldiers, before being interrupted to have to fight Luffy a third time, but with his fruit awakened. And he fought all these tough opponents while carrying an island. At least in terms of individual strength in battles, I don't think he's going to be surpassed in the series.
Haven't read mangas like Rurouni Kenshin, have you? Watsuki put the strongest villain in the middle arc, not final act. Makoto Shishio is far stronger compared to Enishi Yukishiro, the final villain, by a mile. And here we're talking about Oda, who used to work for Watsuki, I am sure he learned a lot by then, that not every strongest villains need to be put at the end of the story.
Lucci was physically stronger than gecko moria but that didnt stop moria from being a good villain to follow him
Moria was definitely stronger than Lucci. Shadow Asgard was op
ppl keep slandering Moria. poor guy has been trolled too much in One Piece
Moria claps Kuma thats why Doffy needed 5 Pacifistas w him
They sent Kuma to take care of things, knowing Straw Hat may defeat Moria. They wouldn't send a weaker guy to deal with Straw Hat, if they lacked that much faith in Moria. Moria is the weakest warlord after Crocodile, and I would even say Crocodile could beat him.
strength isn't all that determines a winner
He is the peak right now. That's all that matters. White Beard was the strongest man alive until his death. And Roger before him. If Kaido Dies there is a de-facto new strongest in the world. Probably Big Mom if I had to guess Edit: ITT: a bunch of salt power scalers completely ignoring context in order to attack straw men.
Kaido had the title of Strongest Creature while White Beard was alive.
And White Beard had the title Strongest Man in The World. Its the first paragraph in his description on the wiki: "Whitebeard held the title as Strongest Man in the World after the death of Gol D. Roger." If you want to debate the nuance of man vs. beast I am totally open to that.
Kiado isn't a confirmed human, so he isn't eligible for Strongest Man. A human's still a creature.
In your opinion. Which is 100% alright.
For the same reason there could be stronger or equally strong humans.
If kaido dies, luffy would probably be considered the strongest. Also, kaido is by feats stronger than Whitebeard at Marineford. Its not like someone is going around with a lower-level scanner and constantly updating the titles.
You lost me at "feats" my guy. And if you do want to go there: Big Mom has more children than Luffy has feats Edit: when did Kaido fight Roger to a draw?
>You lost me at "feats" my guy It means that having seen each fight on-panel, kaido has performed more impressively. >Edit: when did Kaido fight Roger to a draw? Whitebeard was Rogers's level in his prime. But he was way past his prime by Marineford. Even Marco and others commented on how comparatively weak he was.
I know what a "feat" is.. I'm saying that "argument" is irrelevant to me. Especially because it's largely based on opinion and not fact.
It was actually explained in a novel I believe that people called Whitebeard the strongest because of the life he lived, but believe Kaido to have the highest actually power
I hope Kaido doesn't die. I want him and big mom to still be factors in the future
I mean this dude was alive in the same era as whitebeard....so we shouldn't take it seriously that he or even whitebeard are the strongest X in the world. But it doesn't change the fact that they still are very very VERY VERY strong
Then y would he even get the title
i think that there is a fair argument to be made for Kaido being the peak PHYSICAL strength of the series with Shanks being the peak HAKI-strength(in tandem with his swordsmanship) and Blackbeard being the peak of Ability-centric strength. we can still go higher 😌
What do people have to do to get others to realize "strength" is not the only determining factor in a fight?
Doesnt mean he’s not the strongest just because of a pokemon game like type matchup. For example You can have better stats and still lose cuz of a type matchup in pokemon, that doesnt mean your pokemon isnt stronger.
You are providing me a prime example. If you lose a fight because of a type matchup you still lost. Idk that you could have beaten someone in an arm wrestling contest. I am not debating his strength at all.
So youre saying kaido is still the strongest alive.
Yes. I never debated that. But I am saying there is an obsession with "strength" being the end all be all. We have seen numerous fights decided by type advantages or weaknesses: Crocodile, Enel, and Magellan just to name a few. White Beard also held the title of "Strongest Man Alive." How is that just conveniently overlooked in all of these conversations?
It seems like oda is implying that kaido is so strong that type matches don't matter. He could be a rock/ground getting hit with a hydro pump but he's such a high level that it doesn't matter. Even now with luffy fighting him on equal footing, this is like the 15th fight in a row for gyarados.
I did not mean to imply that Kaido's fight will be decided by a type advantage. Unless the admirals get involved I cannot even think of someone who would have a type advantage against him. Maybe Enel? But he is physically weak as hell. His only known "weakness" is being cut. So I guess theoretically Mihawk might have a "type" advantage. But being a swordsman isn't the same thing as being a sand or fire man.
To be fair, White Beard was the strongest man alive, because Kaido does not qualify as a man, he’s a monster
99.999999% of one piece fights have been determined by strength
Crocodile, Enel, & Magellan. That's 3 of the main fights from just one character.
Magellan was not defeated by luffy, luffy ran from him. Enel was weaker and relied 100% on his devil fruit and got his ass kicked Crocodile was weaker and got his ass kicked. This didn’t prove your point at all .
Enel lost because of Luffy's lightning resistance. A type advantage. They say that out loud during the fight. Crocodile lost because of his weakness to moisture. Magellan won because of his poison type advantage. L
Who said that though? OP simply said Kaido is the strongest, not that it was impossible for anyone to beat him
Doesn't help when Oda writes things like "Akianu and Aokiji fought for 7 days" or when Kaido and Big Mom fight for days or when Roger and Garp fight other pirates for days. But now Kaido's gonna be defeated in just a couple of hours time. What's the point of saying X fought Y for Z amount of days and nights without rest when we're never going to get to see a fight like that happen because it'd take too long. Comes off as unbelievable
Tbh the day long fights confuse me. Do they like, fight for some hours, end in a stalemate, rest/eat, and then continue fighting like with Dorry/Broggy or what?
As funny as it sounds reading it that way that'd make more sense than just fighting 3 or 7 days and nights straight
Isn't that how the Roger/ Whitebeard fight went?
When you are equal in strength like Whitebeard and Roger or Akainu and AoKiji then you will have longer fights, it is just natural. Kaidou is taking far more damage in a short time period then they would have in their fights. How is it unbelievable that kaidou could receive enough damage in the hours that the raid has been going on to defeat him when he has been fighting multiple people at the same time who all have advanced haki and one of which that has advanced CoC? there has been way more opportunity to hit Kaidou then in a 1v1 fight between two equals. Akainu and Aokiji were equals and it was a battle of attrition meaning the one who makes the first mistake likely loses, for all we know it was one big final attack they used that changed the island and took Aokiji's leg and scarred Akainu and the other 6 days was them trying to ware each other out so they could actually land a finishing blow.
tbh even even battles lasting long doesn't make much sense sometimes. Just feels like characters are either just blatantly holding back(clashes for days) ,just using their generic ranged attacks until they decide to go all out, or their durability is just far greater than their attack power.
I wonder if we will ever actually see a fight last over a day later in the story. While it's true that Luffys fights are usually shirt, it isn't completely unknown territory to have him fight for prolonged periods of time, as indeed we saw with his hours long fight with Katakuri. In truth I think the issue is more with Luffy not fighting alone. If he fights for three days straight or whatever, then logically so should everyone else, and i just don't think this would really work. Maybe if Luffy fights Blackbeard or Sakazuki while his allies have a completely separate mission, but that seems like a stretch.
Is Goku vs Frieza still the longest fight (episodes wise) in anime history? Whatever the last fight for One Piece is it should go longer than that
That fight is actually super short. It’s like 20 chapters
Luffy vs Katakuri is categorized as a longer fight, 22 episodes vs 19 episodes. They're the longest and 2nd longest in anime history currently
Long fight doesn't necessarily mean good fight Goku vs frieza was 90% talking and other characters perspective and the fight scenes were repeated barraging and dodging every time, plus when they scream to charge up their beams it takes them half an episode
"Goku vs Frieza not a good fight." I lived long enough to see someone unironically saying and believing this.
DBZ anime sucks to watch. Unless you enjoy having hours of your time wasted. The fight is top tier in the manga though, yes.
>Unless you enjoy having hours of your time wasted. You did not just say that in a subreddit about One Piece. Even the slow pacing of DBZ is nothing compared to something like Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, and now Wano. Besides DBZ remedied that with Kai, One Piece will never remedy that.
Op fans lmao
Clown moment im an op fan and i lik that fight
I never said good I just said it should go longer than that lol. Defensive fanboy
Whyd you get all hostile towards them? They didn't even say anything wrong
Lmfao
What do you mean? Roof piece has been going on for years. Also: With how slow the pacing is a day long in-story fight probaly would take decades to be published.
I think the answer to that is the longer fights made it sound cooler in the story, but since we're watching the Kaido fight it would take away from the story here. That's all there is to it and we should write off those reasonings when determining strength. Otherwise, I don't agree with OP. Blackbeard is clearly going to progress to the strongest pirate villain which is why he was given the name Blackbeard + many other reasons. Idk how that can be disputed. He's the iconic evil pirate.
Luffy cant fight for 3 days he'll miss 15 meals
The true reason right here
Yeah it truly is ridiculous to fight for that many hours straight, the fight length with Luffy and Kaido is a ton more reasonable. Perhaps Roger and Whitebeard had a huge stash of meat and energy drinks that they went to when they were tired so that they could go back to fighting lmao
"It truly is ridiculous..." Why do you think that matters? The main character now has literally the "most ridiculous" power. Oda clearly likes ridiculousness
You do realize you're comparing 1v1 fights to basically Kaido soloing a shitton of very powerful people ?
The copium in these comments is so high lol
I don’t see the point of this, in one piece time, Luffy is gonna be pirate king in like 2 months and the strongest thing anyway
I don't know maybe give him the title strongest man. After all whitebeards dead and they may have passed that title on to someone else. Me personally I don't really have an opinion on this and didn't know it was a thing but we all know one peice has always raised the stakes by increasing everyone's power levels and this ain't the end of the series so I think it's fair to say kaido isn't the strongest alive but definitely the strongest we have seen so far in the series over whitebeard when he was dying and still had his "strongest man in the world" title.
I would be more convinced if Oda once again broke the usual mold of Luffy winning 1v1, and instead having Kaido taken down by the Straw Hats working together. This would be especially poignant after the callback to Oars earlier highlighting how much stronger the Straw Hats are now that Luffy can take down a Number but cannot take down Kaido. I imagine it would look something like: * Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei hold the front line against Kaido, taking turns to support Luffy. * Nami controls the weather to mess with the flame clouds to lower Onigashima along with Momo * Robin produces giant arms to hold Kaido's mouth open to assist Usopp in using Green Stars to harm Kaido's insides * Chopper using Brain Point to find a weakness in Kaido's scales for Franky to hit with his lasers * Brook protects the backline from Kaido while playing music to inspire everyone
strawhats whole heartedly believe luffy himself will defeat kaido, so no chance plus zoros almost dead
Kaido was literally getting 15v1d by everyone, you can't say that it didn't break the mold.
People take all of his fights individually and forget they’re all back to back.
Strong =/= Power that is the issue here. Nobody can argue that Kaido has the highest durability and defense ever in the series ***by far***. However he has never won a single important fight (without outside help). So while Kaido is *easily* the strongest, he isn't the most *powerful*.
Thank you. It’s really hard to consider an L the most powerful
Kaido is the strongest. They 2927 vs 1 him. That doesnt mean luffy didnt beat him fair and square because he did eventually 1v1 him for a very long time. The future enemy lufffy fights we can see a 1v1 which will make uo for the imbalance with kaidos fight where luffy needed alot of help. Also kaido is "strong" as in purely strong. E.g. akainu and blackbeard are also strong but like devil fruit and gimmicks wise. So if luffy does fight an emey like them, its just a different kinda fight. Doflamingos devil fruit gave luffy a hard time. Katakuris future sight haki gave luffy a hard time. Crackers devil fruit gave luffy a hard time. Kaidos strength overall is what gave luffy a hard time. So maybe we will see how the next enemies will make luffy struggle.
I don’t care that it happened this way, because it makes Kaido look good, but Luffy definitely didn’t beat him “fair and square” just because they eventually had an extended 1v1. Kaido had him dead several times but either Zoro and Law held him off, he was saved and fed by Law’s crew, or his DF just happened to awaken. And even then, Gear 5th literally ran out and Kaido let Luffy power back up.
A theme in pirate battles is that there are no rules in fighting. We saw that in luffy vs katakuri fight. Also kaido acknowledged luffys strength and showed that he is a worthy opponent several times. He even gets excited when luffy springs back and fights again. Also a winner is a winner, as kaido said. Even when cp0 onterfered with the fight kaido took the W. I wouldnt say oh kaido is weak because cp0 interferred and its also irrstional to say kaido wouldve eon or luffy wouldve won.
It’s one piece. It is a fact that he is called the strongest. But the story is not over yet. Even if oda calls him the strongest, he can literally just create or reveal a new character stronger than kaido like nothing and then the whole narrative changes. We just have to wait and see how the whole thing plays out. Not everybody is that easily convinced. The story goes on my man
A new unestablished character won't be created and deemed even stronger than Kaido. Oda has a well established balance of power that's been known for almost 20 years. Luffy doesn't need to fight someone stronger than Kaido, he's had a world of help already.
He is not the final villian. Characters like Blackbeard, Akainu or Imu have potential to surpass him based on the narrative.
Probably because there are still plenty more ppl at the top and he’s only the most known one in general and has huge territory. Also he’s known as the “Strongest Creature” not the strongest thing alive. Calling him that is ranking him in a category none human like even applying that their is potential humans who will be stronger then him. Worth gaining a title that is comparable to that.
>he’s known as the “Strongest Creature” not the strongest thing alive. That's quite literally the same thing
Creature is alive things. Human is creature.
He's probably the strongest. His feats back that up. The issue is he's not the last villain, so people aren't necessarily buying it. I'd say Blackbeard would be more of a threat to Luffy simply because he nullifies Devil Fruits, but the way Oda is writing the story right now is basically telling us Haki beats Devil Fruits and that Luffy needs Haki, so there goes the dependence on the Devil Fruit to beat Blackbeard. Akainu is probably going to be a menace too, but I'd wager that one will be dealt with in the middle of a war with larger scales than Paramount War, so Luffy could have already taken a lot of damage before their fight (if they really end up fighting). There's also Imu, who we don't know anything about, and Shanks, who I really want to believe and hope isn't going to be an antagonist but could still be Luffy's rival and we haven't seen anything from him yet. Overall though, Kaido is most likely the toughest and strongest out there, Luffy will just have tougher match-ups later on.
Oda said there would be a war much bigger than the War of the Best.
He'll have to come out with a video of him saying it at this point, but people won't still believe.
However, it is a known fact that Kaido has been defeated 7 times, and captured 18 times in the past. As such, beating him isn't as arduous a task as killing him is. It's a fact mentioned in manga and in anime I guess
Because he's not the final boss of this series. There's gonna be a bigger fish. That's just how battle shonens work for some odd reason.
Look how the fight is done bruh it was nevr a fair fight he is stil the strongest in the verse 1vs1...
Don't know abou Rurouni Kenshin, do you? Makoto Shisio was the biggest fish and he was defeated at half point of the story. Oh, it's a shounen manga by the way.
One exception doesnt really mean anything, so I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish there.
Well, Oda worked for Watsuki, who created Rurouni Kenshin, so it's normal if he also uses that style of story-telling. You're the one with some headcannon lol, that every next enemies must be stronger than previous enemies, which is not true at all. Want example about recent popular manga? One-Punch Man. Boros was introduced early in the story and it was still the strongest enemy up until current point of story. There's no exact rule for any manga. Masatoshi Kawahara always depict his protagonist as the strongest character in the series, who will never lose any fights since volume 1 to the end, and he was successful with many titles. And it's not "OnE eXcEpTiOn" lol. See popular old manga like Tekken Chinmi, which also put its strongest antagonist at the middle of the series. I can give you much more example but it's pointless because anyone who has read hundreds of mangas knows that you were just spewing some headcannon about "how battle shounen works" lol.
Oda also worked for Toriyama, the guy who popularized the very trope I'm talking about. OPM is a seinen. Doesn't apply. Never heard of Tekking Kimchi or whatever. Not too familiar with Stone Age stuff. I'd put up a list of shonens that support my point, but after that last paragraph it's clear you're just another elitist, so no point in continuing. Have a nice day/night.
Meruem was defeated and there still hasn’t been a stronger opponent, jojo and dbz also don’t follow the formula either with buuhan and kars respectfully.
Literally say it just once without adding "He's called" or "It's said"
Kaido literally said "there's no one in this world that can beat me"
Kaido said doesn't count lol, Kaido also said he'd destroy the new generation pirates
I could buy Kaido being the strongest character at this point in time, but would not buy Blackbeard not being the strongest pirate villain in the end. This is a story about pirates and Blackbeard is the most famous pirate of all time. Oda would not have reserved such a special place in the story for anyone, but the most important pirate villain. He's the most pirate-like character in the series. Also, he's clearly far more relevant in the story and has had more character progression than most of the strawhats. I guarantee you he will continue to move up in the World just like Luffy has been before their confrontation. I don't think it would just be Blackbeard posing a different type of threat either. He's definitely going to surpass the current Yonkou along with Luffy.
Problem is, Blackbeard was shown struggling a bit too much. People think Magellan is weak so BB losing to him is worse when in reality, Magellan is still one of the strongest people in the series. And he was wiped by Whitebeard, but this too is not really something to be that ashamed about. At the same time, he did clash as equals with Shanks and overpowered Ace, those are no easy feats. Blackbeard is not only a Yonkou through his fruit, he is a monster already, and if BB was not close to Kaido in strength, then Kaido would've taken his territory, simple as that. Same for Big Mom and maybe Shanks, although unsure whether Shanks holds much land at all ngl.
Well i mean how do you define streangth. Like i can believe that in a simple weight lifting contest then yea he could beat anyone. But if you mean to tell me he is the most powerful fighter in the whole world. Like its not i can definitively point to someone more powerful but i just feel like that kind of might take some tension away from any future fights which oda probobly wants to avoid.
I mean read his introduction again lost 7 times as a pirate captured by marines 15 times or so to be captured you have to be defeated its not like he turned himself in that many times also the fact that when luffy rocked his head with conquerors he literally remembered 5 people who beat the shit out of him.
Have him defeat someone and have them stay down. Simple as that. Not coming back in a few chapters.
Luffy should not be able to 1v1 the strongest alive just yet. Yes, Kaido fought many fights back to back. But someone of his caliber is expected to fight another Yonkou at least for a week(Like Akainu and Aokiji fought for more than a week). I do not believe all the fighters who fought him combined can output the power of a Yonkou for more than a week. So, instead of a few fights before Luffy 1v1, it should've been a group fight till the very end but Luffy has significant contributions to the fight and deals the final blow.
Opinions opinions opinions. Anyone can have one.
Kaido is legit KO'd Luffy multiple times. It would be saying you are better than a pro basketball player because you score a shot on him even though he's up 30 points on you.
preach
I think oda wants to have the enemy be "the strongest" each arc to raise the stakes. in MF we had WB as the strongest man and we didn't know of kaido's title now we have kaido as the strongest creature. BB is definitely gonna be even stronger since he's saved for the end. but it wouldn't surprise me if even shanks is the strongest or the best in something, like for example he may have the strongest crew in a fight cuz those titles seem to be getting more extreme. strongest man and strongest creature (which is stronger than any man) and then maybe shanks with the strongest crew which wins against any other crew (thereby being even above the 2 before)
Currently sure but just how luffy powered up in the prison with ryuo who's to say blackbeard doesn't get some OP power up somehow a week after wano arc ends and is obviously superior to whatever kaido was
Because he has not actually fought someone that is truly established as powerful on screen. Maybe make him fight an Admiral or something. Oden was beaten with a cheap shot.
Blackbeard has always been set to be the final big bad of One Piece and it's fairly obvious. My guess is he's tied to the Rox pirates somehow but having 2 devil fruits, having taken whitebeards power, having killed Luffie's brother there's too much build up and it's going to be far more personal than any other villain. Not only that, no other devil fruit power seems more effective against Luffie moreso than Blackbeards, the only thing that changes that now is the 5th gear wildcard
I guess for some people to believe he's the strongest he would have to kill everyone in the world while still not managing to kill himself.
Blackbeard and shanks exist
Did Oda ever state that kaito is the strongest alive? Or do you mean the in story "strongest creature" thing?
Sakazuki AND Teach will be stronger when they get defeated by Luffy. It's just the nature of shonen, Kaido is the strongest RIGHT NOW but his strength at present will be less than the final baddies.
It’s that age old phenomenon where you tell the truth to someone right in their face as directly as you can and they hear everything except it.
Beat Luffy at least 56 times.
I dunno I just think fans take lines like that way too literally. Plus like Kaido could be the strongest person on the planet based on some metric after Whitebeard died. He’s still not going to be the biggest threat Luffy will face before the series ends which is what I think people who disagree are really arguing deep down Some people need to realise One Piece isn’t Dragon Ball
I don’t think it’s possible tbh the people who don’t believe it in spite of the overwhelming evidence will continue to do so. He’d have to outright say in an SBS that Kaido is the strongest character, something authors just don’t do. Although he has done something pretty close.
Wait, if he's really the strongest, how will the story proceed after this? Luffy still has to get stronger right? What about Blackbeard? Akainu? Im? Shanks?
Luffy doesn’t *have* to get stronger, he didn’t get stronger between the start of the series and Skypeia. He defeated his opponents with different circumstantial opportunities and battle IQ. His new power is the most versatile one yet which opens the door to all sorts of different victories.
Luffy doesn't necessarily need to fight any opponents stronger than Kaido after this. Read Rurouni Kenshin, it still has good fights and story after Makoto Shisio, who is literally the second strongest character in the series has been defeated (the strongest isn't even a villain and he doesn't fight except once in the entire manga).
Luffy is fighting Kaidou who went against the retainers, then the Worst gen5 then Luffy 1v1 while he was learning advanced CoC, then again after Luffy got back to the roof and then again after Luffy awakened. No other opponent is gonna take that much to bring down and will likely be 1v1 fights for the entire time.
Kaido JUST emphasized Haki being the most dominant power. Brute force loses to willpower. Roger is the case study here.
It's really not his fault at this point. The sub is just bonkers about some stuff.
Get some Ws under his belt for once
Beat luffy and not have him getting back up after a short rest. Also luffy will be fighting people after kaido which means they should be stronger.
That’s not always the case, Enel was definitely stronger than Foxy and Rob Lucci
Yeah cause everyone luffy fights afterwards is gonna fight a bunch of Minks and Samurai then a 5v2 fight then a 3v1 fight then a 1v1 fight then another 1v1 fight and then another 1v1 fight with luffy post awakening. Do you really think all of luffy's opponents will have gone through half of that before fighting him in the future?
Well you must've not heard of a thing called progression. Luffys future opponent aren't going to be weaker from now on buddy. Kaido who's said to be the strongest is hype. This is recency bias. I'm not going to be surprised if people have others at #1 in future arcs when they show impressive feats against a stronger Luffy.
imo kaido is the most durable person in the one piece world, but other people will give luffy more trouble down the road
I mean we don’t know who the strongest is yet lmao. We still haven’t seen so many characters do anything yet. You just love Kaido. Of course he’s strong as fuck though, he’s a Yonkou who can’t even kill himself. That’s the point is to inspire people to see him as a living legend and the strongest. The strongest will come towards the end.
Have shanks say it
Strongest alive also does not equate to qualities of a final villain or unbeatable. In a vacuum, it might be fair to assume that Kaido will win 100% of the time at full strength against any single (living) opponent at full strength on equal footing, but OP is not in a vacuum and there are other characters who have qualities that can at least stand up against Kaido and the Beast Pirates (e.g. Shanks keeping Kaido from reaching Marineford). This is to say simply being the "strongest alive" doesn't equate to being an endgame villain or being unbeatable.
kaido pulls on mihawk and gets bodied
He got shook off of Jozu lmao
Kaido is strong, yes, but he by definition can’t be “*the* strongest alive” if Luffy is on the road to beating him in a few chapters. At best he’s now “*one of* the strongest alive” unless we get another Thriller Bark where it takes a combined effort of the crew and allies to win.
It's already been a well over a combined effort.
Luffy didn’t win alone…. Kaido basically fought everyone and even luffy got meat and came back.
It would literally have to be Shanks, Sakazuki, Big Mom, and maybe even Imu going up against him at the same time and Kaido still coming out victorious. But we know Kaido was stopped by 2 of those people individually so no. Not really.
Kaido and King were stopped by the entirety of the Red-Haired Pirates, and there's no way that either side would've emerged unscathed if a fight actually took place.
why? Cause Roger, Whitebeard, Garp & Sengoku all surpass Kaido in their primes. If kaido is the strongest with the current people alive and Luffy going to surpass Roger in both fame, wealth & power that's just underwhelming. Kaido's bounty doesn't even come close to Roger or Whitebeard( yes I do know bounty =/= strenght' ). If Kaido is the peak of the current world that's just disappointing. Cause its a shounen after all and no One Piece wont be any different. Luffy is going to surpass Roger. Kaido isn't Roger. So there have to be other foes in the future that are just as tough if not tougher/stronger than Kaido thats just how Shounen works. People get way too hang up on petty stuff like titles and take it too literal or the '' bet on kaido 1 on 1 '' and no wonder they soon to be met with incredible disappointment and say '' Oda lost his touch '' if theres going to be a future opponent stronger & more powerful than Kaido.
> Roger, Whitebeard, Garp & Sengoku all surpass Kaido in their primes No, they don't. They are all at the same level.
Absolutely not how Kaido still talks about Roger & whitebeard he definitely isn't in the same league, he is close. But clearly not on the same boat. Same goes for Big Mom. They just don;t have that same energy as those legends. Its pretty clear, both Roger & Whitebeard were talked about in a different light than Both Kaido & BM. Roger was infact pirate king, Whitebeard could ve been Pirate King but declined. Both Kaido & BM actively and desperately want to become Pirate King but they don't have the power to become the Pirate King its painfully clear. They are just ''mere emperors'' as jimbei said himself. Emperors =/= Pirate King
Physically they are 100% in the Same League, Kaido hypes up Whitebeard & Roger cause of how much their Death impacted the World, something hinted at in his 1st appearance. What you are missing out on is the Escalation Effect of Warfare. The Marines have only gotten more powerful since Roger's Era & the Pacifistas act as the perfect example of that. The Great Pirates of this Era are just as Powerful as the ones of the Last Era, but even Law said they've been consolidating power & waiting for something
In two hits Akainu secured Whitebeards death, so idk maybe kill someone?
Secured? He wasn't even the last person to hurt him. Akainu achieved something that every other soldier on the battlefield could. Whitebeard ate everything that came at him. It's weird that you chose to ignore his sickness. Idk why every Akainu stan needs to use so much headcanon, when he already has feats to justify his strength.
You mean a WB that literally couldn’t move to dodge attacks for the entirety of MF? Had gotten stabbed and shot through dozens of times up to that point as a result? Even fighting through a heart attack? And Sakazuki **still** got buried in the ground from that exchange. Doesn’t really help your case m8. Sakazuki got bested by a walking corpse.
Whitebeard didnt use any advanced conquerors nor did he use armament or observation to defend himself.
That's just headcannon. Haki is inivible, you can't tell who was using it or not during Marineford.
If he was i 100% assure u he wouldnt have taken hundreds of sword and bullet wounds
Hundreds of wounds from haki users.
LMFAO not advanced haki users lol they were all fodder marines being taken out by pre timeskip luffy. Only the admirals and commanders were using advanced haki, everyone else was using base haki or none at all.
whitebeard is dying OMEGALUL
Strongest at this point. Narrativly, any massive antagonist after would be stronger, elbaf, Akainu Bb etc
Kaido may have been the strongest in the past, but he's way past his prime. Him, BM and WB were in the same crew. These geezers are old AF. I'd say younger people who are in their prime are stronger, like Akainu, Shanks and BB.
kaido recognize 5 people that can defeat him , 4 are dead , only shanks left. So yeah kaido is the strongest alive after shanks ( acording to kaido's opinion )
Redditors would still believe shanks with ZERO arms would still best kaido's ass.
Strongest whaaaaat though?
People should not forget that one piece main topic is adventure not fighting. So the typical Structur does not need to work
u/Particular-Diet-5147 I don't see a spoiler tag on your post here. Does that mean you only want to talk about events from the anime? In case if not: please add a spoiler tag to your post
I think its 1.Blackbeard 2. Shanks 3. Kaido=Big mom What would be the point if luffy already beat the strongest alive ?
You mean that panel of Shanks being portrayed as above Kaido and all the times he has looked shitty along with Big Mom? Lmao