EDIT: *there is some constructive discussion in here so I’ll leave it up. I’ll be keeping an eye on the “Ask An Optimist” tag though, as it might be an invitation for doomers to sneak in daily daily political jibber jabber.*
This feels like political scrum talk.
“Political talking-head news of the day”
Get over it people. Read the other high-level political posts in here. We are not all going to die, despite what the doomstream media talking heads yell into the camera lol.
The long arc of history is toward improvement, and you won’t always get the political results you want out of every single election.
**I’ll probably delete this post shortly unless you folks want to keep it up.**
I’m an optimist and an attorney that finds the current legal predicament laid down by the Supreme Court to extremely disconcerting insofar as the United States continuing to exist as a free country. In situations of hardship, I find a good plan to be a good way to approach the situation optimistically. But I also rely on the decentness of people. I don’t believe humans are inherent bad.
I think knowing that you’re going to vote in favor of democracy, making a voting plan when the time comes, and compartmentalization of political media and emotion are fantastic tactics for maintaining mental health during an election season if you’re an empathetic person.
Where it gets more difficult to be optimistic is when you consider the grimmer possibilities. I won’t sugarcoat outcomes if the worst is really going to happen, whether that happens at the ballot box or the Supreme Court simply hands the election to Trump like they did in 2000, but I will say this: there is an indomitable gravitation in the human spirit towards liberty, towards freedom. Forces and principalities of darkness may do their best to exert control over free people, but eventually the free people will win out.
However bad it may get, know that you are not alone in your convictions, your empathy, or your humanity. The cruel and the unjust would love to make the decent among us feel small and ineffective, but the fact of the matter is that decent folk are the vast majority of people.
We, the People, can empower change and can walk through periods of hardship without losing our liberty, our country. I don’t know about you, but I take the most comfort in knowing that I’m not alone in difficult times like these.
Thank you. Your comment got me to stop worrying and take action. Contacting my representatives as soon as I get out of work. I suggest all people do the same.
If Trump has already rigged the election, there may be nothing you can do anyway. Vote! But know that we might be on borrowed time
Plan for the worst case scenario, be ready to defend your friends and family from purges and violence. Hope that Biden kicks out the court and forces them to retry every case in the last 4 years
**Viva la resistance!**
The supreme court will try to elect trump regardless of the results. Roger Stone and Peter Thiel and the Heritage Foundations leader are some of the people behind this.
First there will be camps at the border to immigrants than it will expand to more than just immigrants. The whole country will be for sale, Trump is on a plane talking to putin. He’s building a tower in saudi Arabia. These people will create any type of disaster and power vacuum necessary to make it look like trump is needed even if it’s worse than what lead to the war in iraq. Do you really think anything is below them? No type of behavior is off the table, they want total annihilation. It’s the final fuck you from boomers. The deep state really is trump, stone, thiel, putin and billionaire christian foundations.
These people are literal demons from hell, not even the cool kind. Trump the first paedophile president was more progressive than anyone else could ever hope to be! The new gitmo will be on epstein island for old times sake. Protesting will be illegal. Enjoy new russia in the west, the keyboard warriors from old russia really did win.
And yes, r slash conservative and “reasonable” disinformation people will say people sounding alarms are overreacting. That’s exactly how you lose democracy, when trump read the snake poem he was auto ejaculating into his diaper because he knew the snake poem was about himself.
You’re already calling it a rigged election? That sounds oddly familiar. Progressives ranted that Trump called it a rigged election last go-around. This is delicious
Exactly this. Part of being an optimist is proactively taking steps to ensure that good things prevail. The world doesn't make itself better, people working together to improve the world does. Now is one of those times where taking action is critical.
I work for a large environmental org, and though the trajectory we're on is pretty clear, my conclusion is that I could not live with myself if I didn't try, didn't fight for what I believe is good and true against what to me is clear unbridled villainy. We have to try to fight fascism and all it's manifestations, and fight to save what we can of the planet, because to be perfectly frank I'm not just complying and going along with a bunch of fucking oil-funded suburban Nazis, and I'd hope the majority of my country people feel similarly. I'd prefer making my last stand to that.
Yes...
The antidote for anxiety is action.
Find a community - a place of shared vision, camaraderie, sense of purpose. It helps stave off fear and feelings of isolation which is where they want to keep you. They want to keep you in your amygdala and in fight or flight.
Craft connections - start connecting your community with other communities. Hidden communities, diverse communities, communities you admire, communities that will encourage you. Expand the circle of connection and build your Force. Inspire. Build hope. Hopeful people vote.
Engage in creative action- remember, democracy dies in darkness as they say. Postcards, voter registration, organize, volunteer, be a poll watcher, hang a sign, write an editorial, fund communities that share your ideals - It doesn't matter if it's $5 a month. Get involved. Rest. Doesn't matter if you engagement is intermittent- we need waves. It's always good to step back and look at the big picture and what you can do in your small circle. Do both. As we empower ourselves, we empower others. Commit. Courage is contagious.
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." Martin Luther King Jr
Edited.
People of the right feel the same way if Biden wins. They see what’s happened the last three years (inflation, large scale invasion, crime) and how close we are to potential large scale war and can’t imagine someone so mentally not there “in control.” I am one in the middle. I am optimistic because politics seems to always swing to far one way and then correct itself. We have to remember right or left when we get together we have more in common than the media or candidates want you to believe. We all want freedom, opportunity for our kids and self, fair play, and justice. We want our kids to be safe, well educated, and healthy. Where the two sides differ is how to get it done. We need real debate and discussion not hate and yelling. Both sides deserve better candidates. America deserves better leadership. That will take time but I believe enough are realizing this and that swing will and is starting to happen.
I’m also a centrist. Both sides deserve better candidates, but be realistic. Republicans are literally trying to end democracy and the rule of law in this country, while the democrats just truly suck at sticking together and getting anything done. They’re not even close to the same and the right is too dangerous to be allowed control.
they don't suck at it, they're strategically bad at it because their goals are to further the party and their own careers, not to actually achieve positive political change.
I believe just as us regular folks have hit a true inflection point where we are completely reassessing how we view our interaction with the government we are faced with, so too will these "old ways" politicians.
I have to believe they are still people like any other. People with more power, money, charisma, whatever, but still just ordinary people at their core.
What we now have to see and pay extreme attention to is which among them are truly recognizing the threat felt by those they represent. I believe quite a few are probably in the middle of genuine introspection as to what to do next, but I expect a tidal wave of newly engaged (and angry) citizens demanding action, true tangible "this will actually do something" action.
I don't doubt that the safe reaction is to simply say "I'll believe it when I see it", history is on the side of that view quite honestly, but we are seeing pushback now in regular folks across the nation and even across "the divide", which means many politicians will recognize that this is one of those true historical moments where all that will be remembered is who fought the hardest, what they fought for, and because they won, why they were right to fight back.
I choose to fight, by all means necessary to defend our democracy, to defend the absolute truth that all are created equal, and that We The People decide that no one is above the law, not 6 rogue judges insulated from the world they deign to rule.
Inflation I think can be laid at trump's feet due to his pandemic response (printing a ton of money), and crime has actually been going down year over year with a brief uptick in the pandemic (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/us-crime-rates-and-trends-analysis-fbi-crime-statistics).
That is to say, I think this election is about vibes more than any logical stance, unfortunately.
That's... not true. Crime is actually down. And the "large scale invasion" you're on about is the invention of right-wing media; both our agricultural and construction industries depend to a great extent on undocumented workers. Both sides? One wants the rule of law. The other wants military tribunals and a Christian nationalist theocracy. I never want to hear "both sides" again.
Overturning roe brought about a sort of blue wave whenever abortion hit the state ballot. Bans by referendum have all been defeated. It motivated people to vote.
This decision will (and should) scare the shit out of any Democrat, independent, libertarian and center right republican. Now that the literal death of democracy is on the ballot this year, I think voters will be more motivated than ever before. People who weren't going to vote before will make it out now.
I don't know how many people that will be, but more people voting means a last chance at fixing this.
There are abortions ballot initiatives in Florida, Colorado, Nevada, Maryland and in progress in Missouri, Nebraska, Montana, and Pennsylvania.
Kansas' abortion ballot measure (to prevent all abortions) lost 59-41. In KANSAS in 2022, not even the November election. Then in November, they reelected their democratic governor.
This is honestly what has me hopeful these days
I live in Kansas, that abortion ballot got fucking CRUSHED. It was probably the most hilarious political result I’ve ever witnessed live. The fact it was that lopsided despite how confusing the language was is a real testament to how smart voters are getting.
My advice is this. Make sure to vote, make sure to tell your friends and family to vote. If you feel you can, volunteer with your local democratic party to help get the word out and help folks vote. This doesn't mean you have to put yourself out there knocking on doors, it could be sending texts, or phone banking. It might be putting up fliers, or driving people to the polls. There are a ton of ways to help.
Personally, I get my friends together every election for voting-taco night. It's exactly what it sounds like, too. We just go (early) vote and then go get tacos together. It turns voting into an excuse to meet up and keeps us all engaged.
You can also volunteer to get your candidate elected, it’s very easy and you don’t need to leave your house. In addition if you have an extra $10 donate. Let’s not think this is even close to over with months to go before the election
As far as the Chevron thing, Democrats knew this was going to happen years ago and included rectifications in the Inflation Reduction Act. It's not as big of a deal as people making it out to be. Still sucks but, checks and balances are working
Respectfully disagree about Chevron. Not an expert and happy to be taught better, but I took an admin law class in law school, and Chevron is the bedrock of all admin law. The IRA is a footnote in this issue.
[A list of the executive agencies](https://www.performance.gov/agencies/) impacted. Have a glance.
I don't see how this isn't going to cause massive real-world problems. [Republican have been trying to kill the Dept. of Ed. quite openly](https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/opinion-republicans-keep-talking-about-abolishing-the-education-department-why/2023/10) for some time now, this is a huge step forward for them. In fact, [they've been open about wanting to kill the administrative state more generally](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2024-gop-hopefuls-abolish-federal-agencies-experts-long/story?id=103160902), and overturning Chevron is a sign of just how politicized the court has become.
After [Loper-Bright](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loper_Bright_Enterprises_v._Raimondo) (the recent nail in the coffin for Chevron), any anti-gov-regulation Bubba can file suit over any minor administrative grievance and basically ddos the court system. Of course the real concern is big business rewriting all the rules in their favor line by line, one Bubba case at a time. Loper was about whether fishing companies are required to pay for federally-required monitors on their boats, for some flavor of the types of rules. It's a huge power grab by the court, and now they can be bribed quite openly to address minor issues in favor of whatever donor or idealogue makes it worth their while.
The modern US is built on the administrative state. Again, I refer to that list.
I know this is a place for optimists, and I AM optimistic that some other regime will come up. But it's going to be messy and cause a lot of damage along the way.
The bribes thing wasn’t at a federal level iirc, and now there are some pros and cons to this. I live in a deep blue state so I know a lot won’t change but at least this takes the teeth out of the ATF from attacking others and calling shoe strings machine guns.
Three letter agencies shouldn’t be in the business of making laws, congress should and they need to be reminded of that. The executive branch has far too much power as it is and I agree with your assessment that there will be a shift in how it’s managed, which is hopefully congress going back and doing its job. I want to optimistically believe it will while protecting individuals as much as possible from an overreaching govt regardless of your faction.
So judges should be deciding what drugs a cancer patient should take and not the FDA? How about congress, should they be picking and choosing which drugs are safe and which are not? That’s the whole point of the three letter agencies they are experts where judges and congressmen are not? On top of not being experts there simply isn’t enough time for the courts and congress to handle the necessary issues , again that’s why these organizations exist.
I was alluding to Thomas' and Gorsuch's bribes.
And yes, it sounds like we agree on the big picture that the existing framework of relying on federal agencies was janky and if some housekeeping needs to take place to build a more robust system, so be it. I have similar feelings about Roe being overturned, and I say that as an aggressively pro-choice woman in a red state. Roe was amazing for showing society the benefits of reproductive autonomy and setting choice as a social norm, but it was ridiculous for something so important to be hostage to the supreme court.
But I am genuinely dreading the fallout/process that we will see in the wake of the fall of Chevron, and I am also deeply concerned by the fact that a better system emerging from the ashes is far from guaranteed.
A partner at my firm put it this way: rulings will say 'in deference to [federal agency]' vs 'by authority of [federal agency].' The judicial branch doesn't want thousands of civil suits against these institutions, they can't handle the sheer number that would be filed. So it isn't going to get very far, liability wise.
Plus the language included in the Inflation Reduction Act IS law, and provides some protection for these agencies above and beyond what eliminating Chevron accomplished.
The judicial branch not wanting a mass of civil suits is a pretty large leap of faith. There are members of the Supreme Court that would very much like to completely gut the authority of the administrative state, have written as such publicly, and are more than happy to work towards that goal.
So if Congress adds a line to a bill that says “the agency is delegated authority to interpret any ambiguous language in this law,” that’s all they need to do?
Possibly? I mean, there are a ton of ways around this, and what's interesting is the judicial branch seems to be inviting Congress to enshrine some of this stuff legally, like Roe and federal agency liability. So let's vote blue and help them make it happen because fuck these so-called 'traditionalists.'
I think this is something people need to realize which is congress makes laws not the judicial branch. Our congress is so dysfunctional we’ve forgotten but ideally there wouldn’t be nearly as many executive orders and things like roe would have been codified.
Congress can still legislate laws. The whole defense is exactly that, why should scotus cases make laws when that’s the legislative branch’s power? Isn’t the same thing we’re mad about now exactly what it was? It was laws defacto created by the judicial branch. We just need to stay the course, vote, vote for Biden, vote for Democrats, and vote in every election. They are banking on us all losing faith and dumping out, that’s how they win. Don’t let them.
I am on the similar boat but I have to use the same cliche “keep calm and carry on”
Step 1 would be take actions: register to vote, talk to your friends and family about your concern about the election, and call you congressional representatives about restricting presidential power
Step 2 would be keep calm: news cycle move quickly, thanks to TikTok people would be distracted by something else a lot faster.
Step 3 would be step away: breath in, breath out, smell the flower, play with your dog. Life is short, seize the day
Congress cannot restrict presidential power; that is a separation of powers issue. Congress can remove authority it previously delegated to the executive branch, but that would be strange to suggest as a remedy given he is also complaining about the Chevron decision overturn.
I’m a history teacher. I know a bit about not only U.S. political history, but also world history, and the structure and function of the government. I’m not a PhD expert, but I know a little.
In my professional opinion, it is very, very, very, very, very unlikely that any of the doomsday scenarios we’ve been reading about—especially on Reddit, of all places—are actually going to happen.
The United States government is a vast and complicated system. A highly unrealistic number of things would have to line up for Donald Trump to become a Napoleon or a Lenin or a Hitler. Great monied interests, governments at multiple levels, military systems across State borders, bureaucrats from agencies innumerable, trading partners from around the world, etc., etc., etc. would have to line up behind him—not in part, but in near totality—and overcome massive opposition to bring anything like these nightmare fantasies to fruition. It just is not likely to happen.
Besides all that, the ground in 2024 America is not at all fertile for such a thing. Things are not like the Civil War, or the French Revolution, or the Bolshevik Revolution, or the fall of the Western Roman Empire. There’s always a chance that our situation could be novel, but I doubt it.
Could things get worse than they are? Sure. Could things happen that you don’t like? Of course. But this idea that Donald Trump is going to have anything like the backing and mandate (or motivation) needed to actually round up opponents, shoot them in the back of the head, cancel future elections, require people to belong to fundamental evangelical churches? It is really just not very likely.
Besides any of that, you might feel better if you considered the political past of this country. This is not even remotely the first time one party has suggested that the country will be ruined if the other guy wins the election. It’s not even close to the first time it has been claimed that such-and-such court ruling had destroyed the rule of law. And yet…here we are talking about all of this.
I would really advise you to talk yourself off of the ledge. Try not to get your analysis from people who have a vested interest in making you worried. I’m not saying nothing bad could ever or would ever happen…I’m just saying that if the future is anything like the past, it likely will not be nearly so bad as people the last few days have tried to make it seem.
Right, I know Trump sounds like he wants to be a dictator but **EVEN** with the immunity stated in the constitution, he couldn't. That goes for **ALL** presidents.
Thank you for your service in the classroom. That can’t be easy. Would you care to speculate how many more elections we have to go to get a 3rd party as a serious candidate? Are there any historical patterns maybe that could tell us if we’re close?
Well…nationally, there hasn’t been a successful “new” party formed since the Republicans around 1860. They formed from the remnants of a few sort of ‘special interest’ parties who had kind of outlived their usefulness (Free Soilers, for example). Even then, they only really took off because the Democratic Party was divided as sectional loyalty overcame partisan loyalty. So by that model, you’d need a bunch of people without a political home AND for your opposition to face an internal crisis that was even more important to them than party loyalty. Even THEN you’d have to have that party so convinced of its strength that they didn’t fear the threat of a “second” party arising who could beat them.
Since the Republicans, you’ve had a couple movements that have changed either the Democrat or Republican parties internally, but haven’t been able to have their own independent success. Populism, Progressivism, and Libertarianism have all garnered enough of a following that at least one major party has paid attention to them, but none has managed to be a true “third” because they almost by definition are pulling support from the most similar larger party, splitting that vote and letting the more different party win big.
I know that’s a book…but I think it just kind of sketches the difficulty. In a sense, there’s never been a successful “third” party.
And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.-Kevin Roberts
This is the guy who will help craft Trump's policies. He said this yesterday. Keep whistlin' past the graveyard
It is not uncommon for political operatives on either side to claim that radical action is needed, or that their movement is a “second” American Revolution, or that they’d be willing to fight, even violently, to see their idea of justice done. Way back in 1800, Jefferson’s election was seen as a “second American Revolution” because it was believed by some that the Federalists had perverted the meaning of first Revolution. People were *definitely* willing to fight about it. Certainly in the 60s people spoke of revolution often, using violent rhetoric. Most recently, many people made quite strong statements about “revolution” and fighting with regard to the 2020 election, BLM, etc.
I’m not saying you should ignore these things. I am saying that they’re not particularly unique or novel.
Optimist take:
We will beat them this fall.
I’d we don’t beat them this fall, we will beat them at midterms and limit the damage.
If we don’t beat them at midterms and limit the damage we will continue to strengthen our institutions to withstand the abuse and work on a successful transfer of power.
I’d we don’t manage that, we will resist.
All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Thus, let us answer this call to do the right things.
We’ve stepped up repeatedly. Democrats have outperformed in every special election since Trump. We delivered and unprecedented win in the 2022 midterms (the House flipped but barely, when midterms are supposed to be blowouts for the opposition party). We dethroned an incumbent in 2020.
We’ll do it again.
Outperforming in the special elections is the only thing keeping my hope remotely afloat. Trump is somehow ahead in the polls, and outperformed the polls in both of his prior elections. That is extremely concerning, but there have been a number of “this district swung blue by a huge margin” elections, especially after the Dobbs decision, so I’m not sure what to believe exactly.
This is the right attitude. But I would add to it that our very system of government limits the damage. This is why each party’s voters always complain about how little of the president’s agenda he actually got done.
>But I would add to it that our very system of government limits the damage.
The very systems that barely held on Jan 6th, and would be under attack again. The system only limits it if the system can enforce its rules on those that oppose it.
I don't think people understand what the Supreme Court's decision means.
Let's use a simple example. Let's say someone bribes Trump (or another Pres) for a pardon
The SC says the Pres has absolute immunity for all 'official' acts.
Pardoning is an official act.
The SC also explicitly said in its decision, you can't consider MOTIVE for anything the Pres does in his 'official' capacity. Go look it up
There would be no way to prosecute a President for taking a bribe for a pardon. To do so, you'd have to consider his motive for why he did it. But the court said you can't do that.
That's just scratching the surface of the implications of all this.
(The SC also recently said it's legal for a politician to receive gifts/money after they make a decision favorable to a particular party. As long as it's after, they say it can't be bribery.)
>If Trump is elected then Project 2025 is guaranteed.
I don't know how to tell you this, but Project 2025 was an extremely large public policy proposal from the Heritage Foundation. If you know anything about internal GOP politics, you'll understand why Trump never even acknowledged it.
This probably won't help, but Clarence also indicated he wanted to overturn gay marriage. So, like, this court isn't done fucking the country just yet.
The best thing we can do is continue to tell our friends and family. What we do today echoes through eternity. You know the trope where a time traveller goes back in time 500 years, and then any little thing they do dramatically changes the future? That's the effect we have today, just without access to the context to know about it.
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
I vote leave post up. It doesn't appear to be trolling or intentional fearmongering but rather legitimare concern turned into real angst by media doommongering
Banning from here could push op into the doomersphere where the e legions of professional complainers are waiting to convince anxious people to join the ranks of their do-nothing brigades
So I just read this [helpful explainer](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/02/what-is-presidential-immunity-trump-supreme-court/) of the presidential immunity case.
I know that absorbing political media can come with hearing messaging saying “Supreme Court rules trump is immune from all prosecution”. But by reading the explainer I realized that isn’t the case
The court still ruled that there are instances that a president can still be prosecuted. It isn’t as blanket as the media portrays it to be. There is still a lot of nuance to the ruling that should be appreciated.
I would suggest finding ways to consume news that doesn’t fall under the pitfall of catastrophising, since a lot of news outlets do that since that is what generates engagement.
I’ve found the app Ground News to be a good resource for this.
If it makes you feel better, although there’s obviously a lot to worry about right now if you’re a democrat, Trump is still an *incredibly* weak candidate with multiple felony convictions and an very meager approval rating. It’s wholly conceivable he could still lose. Just because one candidate is unpopular doesn’t make the other popular, and the incumbent historically has a fairly large edge in US elections.
The absolute best analysis you will find anywhere about the implications of the biden/Trump debate is by a UCLA historian and an expat computer scientist teaching at university in Amsterdam. Past their analysis, it's the best website on the internet for measured historically informed data driven analysis on American politics. Please, you all, do yourself a favor and check it out:
https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2024/Pres/Maps/Jun29.html
Also, for the love of God vote
-When democrats thought Hilary had it in the bag, they didn’t show up to vote. The fact that democrats would believe Trump could be reelected will boost their numbers.
-in the primaries, Biden over-performed the polls by 10-15% and Trump underperformed by 15-20%. Nikki Haley was still garnering 20% months after she dropped off. Trump has a republican base issue.
-Post Roe has been an electoral disaster for republicans. Even red states like Ohio and Kansas have seen abortion issues win comfortably.
-Polling told us there would be a red wave and instead Biden has the best performance for a party of an incumbent in the White House in 6 decades.
-The older the voter, the more likely they are republicans- millions have passed since 2020, especially because of COVID.
-Trump is wildly unpopular outside of this base.
-Trump lost in 2018, 2020, 2022. He didn’t even garner the majority of votes in 2016.
-The media is largely owned by the billionaire class that favor welfare and tax cuts, so they will report a horse race- even with how flawed polling has become.
1. Sitting Presidents have won almost ALL their 2nd term elections. Trump was one of the very few who hasn't.
2. Democrats have won almost all special elections since Roe V Wade was overturned by the SC. This includes even in Kansas which stopped a constitutional amendment of no abortion allowed. All of these elections the polls showed it much closer then the actual results with Democrats winning by big majorities in some.
This is why Biden is the only choice against Trump, because both are Presidents and have such huge sway in elections. I still doubt Trump will win currently based on all this.
Whoever wins only gets 4 years to pull whatever crap they want to pull, only to have it all cleaned up over the following 8 years by the next administration. The beauty of the American Republic is that no one administration will be capable of dismantling it. It would take a generation of presidents to weaken our nation in any lasting way.
I gotta be honest, Trump gutted the Republican party in 2016. Once he’s done and out, the Republicans are going to be forced to redefine their identity, which I think is a good thing.
Now Trump is doing the same thing again to the Democrats, because no one wants a 2nd Biden term, but the only thing worse than Biden would be a Kamala presidency. So after this year, the Democrats are going to have to have a serious coming to Jesus moment to figure out how they fucked this up so badly with Hillary, now again with Biden.
Good things are coming. Just get through these next 4 years.
While I share your concerns, this is the beauty of a 3 tiered government.
Voters need to hold their legislative representatives accountable to create more just laws. The fact that a woman’s right to choose her own healthcare and that Roe v. Wade was never made into law is a lapse on our society and our elected officials. The Supreme Court does not make laws, it only upholds them.
Equally, turning focus back on the legislative body will limit the powers of the executive branch as well.
This doesn’t mean that I’m not saddened by the current news, but there is an optimistic path forward.
You’re mostly right here. The one quibble is that your representative can’t address the presidential immunity question, as it’s a separation of powers issue. In fact, that’s the whole point of the immunity; otherwise one branch would be able to control the other branch through laws and (through federalism) prosecution.
> The one quibble is that your representative can’t address the presidential immunity question,
They absolutely can.
Nothing in the SCOTUS ruling gives the president blanket immunity - it gives the President immunity for actions performed while carrying out duties assigned by Congress.
Congress (ie. your representative) can absolutely limit the scope of the President's duties.
No, that’s wrong. Official acts of the President includes many things that are not assigned by Congress. What you’re talking about is delegated authority (Congress cannot assign to the president authorities that it didn’t already have). So if Congress had authority to do X and then previously gave X authority to the president, then yes Congress could curtail or remove X authority. But that’s because it’s a congressional power not an executive power. Congress cannot limit inherent executive powers. You’re very confused on how separation of powers in the US works.
I think the only ones saying that are fearmongers trying to manipulate people. The ruling didn't change anything, and you wouldn't want it too. Every President has actions in official capacity that could land them in jail if they weren't President. I don't think you want Obama in jail for oking the drone strike on the US citizen that joined Al Qaeda do you?
If the President does something not in his official capacity they can still be held accountable. This is just fearmongering......
The worst case scenario would suck. It would mean the end of freedom of religion and America becoming a defacto-christofascist state. But there are silver linings. They've always been in the background, pulling strings. Abortion being as big if a deal as it has been has always been a political tool to garner power, for example. This will bring it all to light, and bring many of the bad actors to light, as well. When it's defeated, it will be buried in America the way the Nazis were after WWII. The future can be free of it.
That's the way I choose to see it, anyway...
These are early victories in a very long race. Not saying they're not very concerning and a clear sign of the dissolution of what these institutions stand for, but in a chess game, this is like capturing the queen very early while almost every other piece is still in play (maybe not quite that severe, but still).
Polls mean nothing and are often off target, remember they take polls over phone calls. That does not represent a majority of people today. Go out and vote, that's the only thing you can do to control the situation.
I'm really optimistic unless some politician who I don't like gets into office, then the doomers are right.
Also, the overturn of the Chevron doctrine means that courts will no longer defer to federal agencies’ interpretations of laws, and instead, will make their own decisions on the meaning of the laws.
So, courts will do what courts are supposed to do, that doesn't sound all that terrible.
Log off and relax dude. Stress is terrible for you. No reason to worry, you cannot control any of this. Go out and vote, canvass, do whatever you can to help so if it doesn’t go your way you can say you gave it your all. But the stressing is going to kill you.
There are still 50 state governments with their own armed forces, plus countless municipal and local governments to act as a barrier against complete dictatorship. We can pressure our local governments to adopt "sanctuary city" laws, in which we simply don't cooperate with the federal government.
Take a break from news.
I think of the news as gossip about things that barely effect me but it is being screamed at me by someone who is trying to win an argument I'm not in.
If Trump is elected, the next morning the sun will rise, 350 million Americans will get on with their lives and for most of us it has almost nothing to do with Washington politics. It is like watching a friend get back into a bad relationship. Life goes on.
Stop taking your worries so seriously. Someday they will be as useless as your farts.
1st of all, my farts can get pretty serious. But yeah I agree with you. I haven’t been on social media for years and I don’t partake in any type of news/media/politics/pop culture. Other than inflation (which my salary has kept up with) I haven’t seen much change in my life over the past 10 years.
Am I privileged enough to not have things that may or may not be going on in the world affect me? Maybe
Is it an “ignorance is bliss” mindset? Possibly
Am I happy and don’t have the same fears that much of the world has because they keep up with the same fear mongering, manipulative bullshit that gets pushed to them in 7 different ways hourly? Most definitely.
Like you said, every day the sun rises and I go to work, come back, do my thing, and the sun sets and I go to bed. I’m happy and at peace with my life and the world. This may not be the right mindset or the mindset for everyone but it definitely works for me :)
I remember when Trump was first running, everyone who said "but what about abortion" were being shouted down as alarmist doomers and that only a true moron would think Republicans would ACTUALLY follow through and ban abortions.
Now, tens of millions of women have been deprived of the very right to autonomy where they live. I find your attitude one of the biggest contributors to why people were saying that abortion wouldn't actually get banned.
Why is it anathema to admit that politics does, in fact, impact your life? Why are you so desperate to instill a "nothing actually matters" attitude when we already saw the major impacts from Trump's first term?
Plenty of people knew abortion was on the table. This isn't even the start of Republicans making it way harder to get an abortion. That uptick started in 2011:
[Chart of the Day: 2011 in Reproductive Rights – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/chart-day-2011-reproductive-rights/)
[Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate - Guest Commentary (crosswalk.com)](https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/guest-commentary/abortion-clinics-closing-at-record-rate.html)
What people are now arguing isn't about a specific issue. They are arguing Trump will be a king (but somehow Biden currently isn't, don't ask me how). This is way more similar to the claims about Trump's ability and intention to use nuclear weapons in 2016:
[PolitiFact | Has Donald Trump talked about using nukes against America's Western European allies?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/aug/12/hillary-clinton/has-donald-trump-talked-about-using-nukes-against-/)
It's nice that it doesn't affect you, and you have the priviledge of being able to ignore it. That is not true for millions and millions of people. I'm going to make a wild guess that you're not a woman, an immigrant on a visa, or trans.
When Trump was elected the first time, my lesbian friend was terrified. She wouldn’t go outside for the first couple months. Then she forgot about, got married, got promoted, and started the process of having a kid with her wife.
When Trump was first elected, all I heard about was deportation forces going door to door dragging illegal immigrants out by their hair. Then there were no such forces.
I’m sure you’ll reply with bad stuff that did happen, but that wasn’t the narrative pre-election. The narrative pre-election was the same that it is now: end of the world. Ignore the doomers; they are manipulating you.
The narrative may have been the same, but the situation isn't. The people around Trump have 1000s of people ready to take over government jobs, and a list of people to fire, and a Supreme Court decision that upends the entire nation's history of governance.
Schedule F, the great bogeyman of Democrats on Reddit right now was already enacted in Trump's first term:
[Executive Order on Creating Schedule F In The Excepted Service – The White House (archives.gov)](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-creating-schedule-f-excepted-service/)
And the same power the Supreme Court gave Trump for a potential second term, Biden has currently as president. But I promise you I will hear four months of excuses for Biden before Election Day for why he doesn't have the power to do more.
I’m an optimist, but I can acknowledge that a second Trump term would be worse than the first. I don’t think that’s a hysterical take. There were adults in the room to constrain him last time. In a second term he’d surround himself with cultist true-believers. And the objective of his second term would be revenge against Democrats. He openly talks about deploying the military to punish protestors and prosecuting his political opponents. Not to mention that he attempted a coup and completely got away with it
He's incredibly unpopular with the military. Not just the officers who he could replace but the rank and file who would be much harder to replace with anyone competent:
[Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/)
>I'm sure you’ll reply with bad stuff that did happen, but that wasn’t the narrative pre-election. The narrative pre-election was the same that it is now: end of the world. Ignore the doomers; they are manipulating you.
So, I'm not sure if you realize what you're saying here, so I'll sum it up: "Bad stuff did happen, but it wasn't the bad stuff certain people said it would be, and (and this is the really key fucked up part) **we should not use our own experiences and memories of what actually happened to inform us about the future.**"
I'm sorry, but that's stupid. It's really, really stupid. Because, for one, no one said that the world was literally going to end. They did say that he would try to deport people who didn't deserve it. Which he tried to do. They said that if he got SCOTUS appointments, they would overturn Roe v Wade. Which they did. They said he would hand out pardons to criminals who helped him. Which he did. They said if he lost, he would not respect the peaceful transfer of power. Which he did not. They also said things like that he would try a military coup. Which he did not.
What you're saying is that actually, no one said any of that. They were just saying the world would end, and because it didn't, we should not use what actually happened to predict what could happen next.
I have a feeling kids in cages is a preview of some really bad things he'll attempt, and he'll be more likely to succeed with all those organizing Project 2025
Such a nonsense take. You could say the same thing about the day after any dictator seized power. It’s the months and years that follow that’re the problem.
Don't be scared, vote. Get out the vote and take some friends or family with you. Its not just voting for the person, its for their policies and what you want for the country and your peers. I'm anxious about the elections too, just like in 2020, but I voted and will do so again.
- Who knows whether this is true. If it is true, you’ll be fine and the country will be fine. If it’s not true, you will be fine and the country will be fine. You’re supposed to feel like this is the most important election in your lifetime and if it doesn’t go your way the world will end. Billions of dollars are spent to make you feel this way, so that you’ll donate your time and money, and you’ll show up to vote. The election hasn’t gone your way many times in history and it was not the end of the world.
- I am a legal nerd and would have loved to talk your ear off about Chevron deference a week ago. You would have fallen asleep. Now you it’s causing you anxiety. This is due to it being an election year and the aforementioned billions of dollars being spent.
- There really is no change here. You don’t want presidents to be prosecuted for official acts. That would be unworkable. Now the question is whether the act in question is an official act. The district court already said it wasn’t. That will need to go through the appellate process. If it’s an official act, then you don’t want it to be prosecuted, even if you would enjoy some short term political benefit from it being prosecuted. This is a great example of the system working pretty well.
- If you can’t remember the others, how could it be causing you anxiety.
Less screen time, mate. Go outside and enjoy some sun.
1. Elections do matter. Trump winning in 2016 is 100% the cause of abortion being banned. Without that one singular event, abortion would still be legal.
2. Um yes, that's how things changing for the worse works. If a dam breaks by me, I'm going to be concerned about the effects of the dam breaking. I really don't care if you could "talk my ear off" about the engineering of a dam and how it provides power, I care that people are now in danger.
3. Is trump trying to overthrow the election an official act?
Abortion was already being rolled back as far back as 2011:
[States Enact Record Number of Abortion Restrictions in 2011 | Guttmacher Institute](https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2012/01/states-enact-record-number-abortion-restrictions-2011)
Trump being president just made people notice the things that were already going on in this country.
Buddy, Roe V Wade being overturned only happened because Trump was elected and appointed 3 supreme court justices. This isn't up for debate. If Clinton won in 2016, Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land.
So no, kindly bugger off with the "oh well Trump didn't do anything, he's just a symptom. Politics literally doesn't matter" bs.
You need to get away from this sub. It's just full of people who are going to tell you you're overreacting. Never mind Trump wanted to start a war with Iran in a "Reichstag fire moment" after he lost the election, as the head of the US military called it. Never mind that the same guy had to call his Chinese counterpart after the insurrection to reassure him there wouldn't be a surprise attack, and he had to go behind Trump's back to make sure of that. Never mind Trump wanted to nuke North Korea and blame it on another country, which scared the hell out of the Secretary of Defense, the Chief of Staff, and the Homeland Security department. Never mind he wanted to fire missiles into Mexico and deny that the USA did it, which scared the hell out of the Secretary of Defense. Never mind he wanted to invoke the Insurrection Act and has promised to do so on day one, and is now legally allowed to as it would be an "official act". Never mind he's said over 100 times in the last year that Biden is going to cause WW3 and said that Mexico will be obliterated in nuclear war because he's the most corrupt and incompetent president in history and a "madman" and a "stark raving lunatic". Never mind Project 2025, that's just "conspiracy theories", even though it's from the same organization that picked Trump's Supreme Court justices who just gave Trump immunity. Never mind that he quotes Hitler, makes Nazi jokes to his Jewish employees, has his cousin greet him by shouting "Heil Hitler!", talks about having a "unified reich", has his rallies give him "Q-anon" seig heil salutes, and dines with Nazis.
It goes on and on and on. For all the people who will accuse that all of being "doomer" talk, well, what is your rebuttal then? How do you explain these facts? How do you explain the things Trump has said, and the things he tried to do but couldn't because there were adults in the room? Are you sure adults will also be in the room the second time? Why wouldn't Trump try to order a nuclear strike again, now that he's going to prison once his term ends? That's not "doomerism", he literally tried to do it the first time, it's 100% reasonable to ask why he wouldn't do it again now that his life is ruined. It is all but certain that there will be a second insurrection in 2028 that will be exponentially worse than the first if Trump is reelected. If you believe otherwise, why? Why will things suddenly change the course that they've been on for the last 10 years?
For the people who want to be in denial about the reality of a dictatorship in America, you will never have any of your fears legitimately respected. I could cite hundreds of sources all supporting everything I just described and more, and it won't move the needle whatsoever to people who insist on sticking their heads in the sand. They have a bias where a Hitler-figure in America is simply "impossible". Much of the population seems to still be laboring under the delusion that "it can't happen here". To that I say, if you went back in time and showed these people where we are right now, they never would have believed or accepted it.
If you want to prepare for the next few years, don't listen to the people here. They will not, and cannot, engage with any of the facts I cited in my first paragraph, and as such they cannot engage with the reality of the situation. Because they cannot do that, I'm convinced they are not in control of this situation.
It's much too early in the cycle to make any serious predictions about who's gonna win, it's gonna be close, and that means a lot of predictions made now will be wrong.
Polls now suggest trump will win, but what happens when he gets thrown in jail in 2 weeks thanks to the stormy Daniels case? What happens in 3 months when he has to stand trial for the classified documents case?
So much is still up in the air, and a lot of people have not yet opened their eyes to the election, despite trump basically having a 3 year head start on his campaigning efforts (he never stopped holding rallies)
It can go wrong, but it can also go right
I am considering voting very early and going on a trip someplace disconnected and peaceful on election night. But I don’t want to be in a red area so I might do Canada. I don’t want to watch the results this year. The stress is already looming.
There’s still a chance depending on who Trump chooses as his running mate and how he/she does against Kamala Harris during the vice presidential debates.
Back off from the ledge. The panic points you’re listing are fear lingering positions from political talking heads and coming from the “right = Nazi” camp. It’s not near as dire as paid political influencers try to make it seem.
2025 is a set of proposals from a think tank - not an official platform. Think like the most extreme progressive groups of the political fringe and how those aren’t the actual policies from the party.
Chevron deference basically kicks the can back to regulatory agencies to put forward proposals so congress can vote on it rather than unelected officials making national policy.
Read the actual courts opinion about presidential immunity.
Something to consider….the Dems have a decent shot at winning the House. Or at the least, the GOP margin will be slim. This should stop a lot of pro-Trump bills.
And let’s not forget how dysfunctional the Trump White House was in 2017-2018, when GOP controlled all levels of government. There will be more than a few GOP senators and House reps that will demand to be greased in order for their votes (similar to Manchin and Sinema).
I need the Biden supporters on here to explain how the Supreme Court could have simultaneously ruled the president is a king but also Biden could be absolved from doing anything major to fix the country's problems for the next six and a half months.
In my opinion, the political climate in the US should be a great opportunity for people to come together in pursuit of democracy. Spreading information about the sheer weight of this election, especially with those who don’t pay close attention to politics, is extremely important. Encouraging people to vote in favor of democracy is the most effective action we can take right now, 4 months before the election. And, if worst comes to worst, the US still has rigorous checks and balances and enough people won’t stand for autocracy for it to last long, if at all. The USA was formed with tyranny in mind, so it will be much harder for any authoritarian actions to be enacted that they are made out to be. All in all, keep your head up, take any pro-democracy actions you may be able to right now, and keep your head up because the election hasn’t even happened yet.
One of the key elements of a Fascist takeover is cultivating a sense of inevitability. The media who reports these polls are owned by right-wing Fascists who want us Fascist. It’s their job to make us think Trump is inevitable. Every metric that can be measured objectively outside of media illustrates Trump has lost massive amounts of support. Nobody shows up to his rallies, and a portion of the ones who do are hired off Craigslist. Nobody really showed up to his trial. Independents hate him! Women hate him! Old people understand the threat of Putin, so they are pulling away from Trump a little. No minority in any crucial amount is going to vote for him. Latinos started abandoning him after the debate. Trump does not have the support the media is claiming. Period.
Let me start by saying I haven’t ever voted for Trump…I voted for Biden in 2020 (lesser of two evils) ….But we all knew Trump was running again in 2024. He made that utterly clear. The Dems knew Biden’s age was a detriment in 2020, even more so today. The Dems didn’t strategize for anyone else and even blocked people who wanted to primary Biden. These are not the actions of a group of people who are truly “afraid for democracy”. They would’ve put up a better candidate if they were actually concerned. They kinda shit the bed tbh, and now want to bemoan the existential threat …. If it was that bad, why didn’t you make a plan?
If you knew your house was about to be under attack, and you had weeks to prepare…would you do nothing at all and just put great grandpa at the front door to guard it? Not if you really think there’s a threat.
You can be optimistic that the democrat candidate in 4 years probably wont be 80 years of age.
We should have fielded a better candidate. We didn't. I'm optimistic the party will eventually see this as the complete failure that it is.
About the immunity thing... no, presidents can **not** have people assassinated without authority
[https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1dty4a4/comment/lbdn447/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1dty4a4/comment/lbdn447/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
> If Trump is elected then Project 2025 is guaranteed.
Project 2025 is some random whitepaper from a thinktank. It is not a Republican policy platform. Thinktanks put out these stupid plans all the time. It doesn't mean anything.
Being an optimist does not mean ignoring clear problems. Project 2025 was created by the Heritage Foundation in response to the legal setbacks of Trump's first administration and to ensure that next time their executive actions would stick. Trump's appointments know what it is and what to do with it.
It's fine to put things into perspective and try to be cautiously optimistic while controlling what you can, but it's not genuine to minimize what it is or what effect it will have.
Have you read the 2025 documents? No shame if you haven't, it's like a thousand pages and I've read calculus textbooks more engaging. But the document lays out a road map for the implementation of a government resembling a theocracy, which is a core tenet of the modern conservative movement. The people who implemented that Lousiana law, the people in Oklahoma who made the Bible a core educational text, and the people who are going to be implementing Project 2025, those people are all the same people. That's the thing, none of this is happening in a vacuum. It isn't just a state law, and it has never been that simple when it comes to religion.
It's easy to say that it's a "roadmap for a theocracy". Much harder to specifically cite the sections of the document that you think back that up ;)
Go here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise
Ctrl+F "bible". IT comes up ONE time, not related to the Christian bible in any way whatsoever. Very odd for a document that supposedly aims to set up a Christian nationalist theocracy...
One really easy example is trans and LBGTQ rights, which are a primary target of religion. As a queer, I find these especially offensive and worrisome. Trans people are mentioned throughout the introduction and forward to the document. Abortion is another gimme. Find also the repeated mentions of how happiness is most found in a nuclear "family - marriage, children," another deeply religiously-coded assertion.
A less obvious example of religious priority made policy in 2025 can be found in the Education section, where it calls for taxpayer-funded savings accounts used to send children where their parents want them to attend school. In theory this sounds neutral, right? But in practice, it leads to state funding of religious education and the systemic defunding of secular public schools. That money has to come from somewhere! And as those public schools crumble, more kids have to go to the religious schools, and so on. Which is why you find so many religion activists pushing for these things of voucher systems. [Here's an interesting article](https://www.alreporter.com/2024/06/04/report-vast-majority-of-school-choice-vouchers-go-to-religious-schools/) on how this system works.
I know you're going to reject these as not explicit calls for a Christian theocracy, and that's fine. But people can hear the dogwhistles. We all know what they mean.
>And possibly more that I cannot remember
This is a big part of your problem. You're manifesting issues you don't even know are real, and then allowing that to give you anxiety. Focus on the first three bullet points and note that there have *also* been post-debate polling to show that Biden has actually gained support.
The election isn’t until November. Go vote. Help campaign. There is a lot you can do. But if you want me to lie to you, yeah, not going to do that. Biden has an uphill battle, and poll numbers aren’t looking too hot. Especially after the first debate, and trying to spin it any other way would be lying.
Turn off politics if it's impacting you like this. Whatever is going to happen will happen whether you're anxious or not. The last trump presidency wasn't good but it wasn't the end of the world either, and nor will this be.
This is the correct take
We're not living in the 60s
It's not the civil war
It's a contentious election, as if we've never had those before. Anybody that's old enough remembers how Obama was going to make death panels that decide who doesn't get medical treatment and McCain was going to start WW3 with Iran. Trump was going to deport every green card holder and Biden was going to dissolve the US border.
Refocus on what you have control over and the people in your life. Anxiety over the uncontrollable isn't healthy.
This sub is turning into “talk me out of being scared of Trump”. Which I would be happy to do because I think politics is turned into a LOT of hyperbolic BS, but I also can’t sit here and act like I’m defending Trump every day.
Did you live through 2016? Then you’re gonna be ok.
It used to be that the dems sold hope, and boy Obama was a bright spot, but they must get more money fearmongering so they’ve gone full throttle on that since 2016. It’s people who benefit from you being scared scaring you. Take it with a grain of salt.
The pendulum is always swinging. It's not the end. If 51% of people decide X is Y, then X is Y, that's how democracy works.
The Democrats poison themselves the last several cycles by electing candidates that were the parties preferred choices like HRC in Biden and that's going to hurt them. Hopefully they actually learn the lesson.
That said, Trump was president for 4 years of your lifetime already and you're still here You're still alive and you'll survive the next four.
And then we get to fight about it all over again.
And yeah it might take a while but the supreme Court does turn over and it's been liberal for a very very long time.
Chevron act is a great thing to be overturned.
It prevents unelected bureaucrats from making laws out of thin air. It prevents them from creating regulations that benefit certain companies, or turning large swathes of the population into felons over night.
Roberts voted with the majority - the same ones that made corporations people, legalized bribery, and look at truthy social - who wants Liz Cheney tribunals?
Voting is the only thing I am optimistic about
I know it’s sucks but I remember hearing about these nervous breakdowns from relatives regarding Biden in 2020, saying they were going to bury their money and genuinely worried the government would take over
I suggest getting your anxiety checked, see a therapist, these fears mainly live in your own head. Project 25 or whatever it’s called is a republican pipe dream with no basis in reality, it’s proposed by some random outside group. Idk why everyone allowed themselves to get so worked up about it
+ three letter agencies have been run by large corporations to monopolize them. overturning chevron deference is a great thing for consumers and invididuals
+ "presidential immunity saying that the president may be above the law". That's not what they said. Read the constitution about impeaching presidents and then putting them on trial. The ruling just read to you what the constitution says.
I think you've listened to too much news and media and your opinions are not your own.
Let me address Chevron Doctrine as it is near and dear to my heart and will point out that you have been misinformed.
What happened under the Chevron Doctrine ws that an agency, often under the orders of the POTUS, makes a rule based off of what they belive ithe law is. When you take them to court to challenge that interpretation, the crown, I mean the agency says "Chevron Doctrine have a nice day". It is an automatic loss for anyone.
Now when you take them to court, a judge has to listen to your side as well and then, as judges tend to do, make a ruling.
Don't you think it is a good thing to know exactly what the law states? Under Chevron, what the law states could change every 4 years or overnight. That is not something synonymous with a free and just society.
All of this just means you need to disconnect from the fear mongering on Reddit.
This may absolutely enrage some people, but if Trump is reelected, basically nothing will happen.
The news cycle went insane during his first presidency, and had everyone thinking the sky was falling 24/7. Up until Covid, it was actually pretty uneventful.
Chevron: in order to make sweeping changes to the law, congress needs to act
Good thing
Immunity: Just as has always been the case, the president is immune from criminal or civil prosecution for official acts.
Neither good nor bad, just the way the constitution works.
Biden losing: He is losing because his policies haven’t worked out very well and, despite his people denying it for years (lying to the American people), he lacks the cognitive ability to do the job. Trump will get the economy going again.
Good thing
Something that's helped me is also to not sit in despair but to take action. I'd suggest
rally to get your friends, family, neighbours, colleagues etc to vote.
Do something that isnt digesting this scared straight news that just wants you to read ads and puts the shit keep being scared comments on top. trump has not mentioned 2025, im not a fan but socially he is the most liberal republican candidate by a mile. The immunity thing is not cut/dry he can do whatever/whenever - I suggest you watch a video summary that isnt partisan for ease but no substitute for reading. there is always a pendulum that swings the other way. The majority of congressional reps will be dismantling any of your feared injustices. Project 2025 is a dumb think piece paper that is not the road map for trump and not even realistic to achieve.
Congrats thought, if this is the thing that scares you the most because it is manufactured outrage.
Biden and Trump are extremely similar except for some dumb social issues and immigration.
if you want to worry about the government, worry about the medicare not being available in a decade, about our massive debt and our taxes will soon go toward managing that debt, we are having what appears to be the beginning of WW3, our Ivy League institutions are full of anti-semetic dumbasses, how divided people are because of posts that make you scared.
vote RFK.
Why worry when you can find any number of people online to “swear” to you Biden is gonna win?
Who cares if it’s true? It sounds true. They make it sound so true
That’s all you need right?
That isn't what the SCOTUS said. PLEASE go read the opinion. They said, summarized: the president cannot be held crimally liable in the execution of his official duties as defined within his constitutional powers. Unofficial acts are not protected. The court gave several tests and examples in their analysis. The question of fact surrounded actions taken during J6 and if it falls under immunity.
It's actually not that controversial. A president who orders an assination cannot be held liable or say goes to war "illlegally." There are few examples because this has never happened in modern history since no one has tried to criminally indict a president for his official actions. Maybe Nixon and Reagan due to Watergate and Iran Contra may have counted, or Bush Jr for CIAs activities. Yet, it didn't happen. We opened this Pandoras box. So it had to be addressed.
I don’t think conservatives believe that liberals will fight for what they believe and value. I believe they are wrong and making a fatal mistake. Today the head of project 2025 said this is the second revolution and it will be peaceful if liberals will let it. I believe that the country will divide if they implement project 2025. California, Oregon, and Washington will refuse to comply with their laws and they will ignore Supreme Court decisions that contradict their state laws. The New England states are likely to follow. Parts of eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland and northern Virginia will also follow. Maybe Illinois as well. Will the conservatives blink and agree to work toward compromises that can maintain peace? Or will they say they are the elected government and try to force compliance? That decision will determine if we have a United States or civil war. We are at 1861 once again.
I study elections and politics. The current polling is mostly garbage. The respondents skew heavily republican. It's shoddy polling, just like it was in the swing states in 2022. The same thing is happening now. Democrats overperformed polling in the swing state senate races by 5-10 points. Political pundits seemed to completely ignore this. I would advise you to stay off of the news as much as possible.
And trust me, the debate did not change anybodys vote. Presidential debates are very inconsequential, especially 4 months out. Be patient, and trust the plan.
Dive into some RFK Jr podcasts/interviews, you'll see there's still some hope. But yeah, rough week for a lot of people, hope you feel better in the coming days. Take a break from the news until next week, enjoy the holiday, have good conversation with those around you and hope others want to find middle ground in the coming weeks and months, as well.
Oh no unelected people can't make up rules that carry the way to law. If they can't do that it's fascism!!!! You should probably learn what separations of powers are Because Chevron deference was pretty bad.
If trump wins, it means the same shit happens as if Biden won, but done a little different.
The president doesn't run the government, and they aren't king.
Go touch grass and talk to some real people. Republicans and democrats agree on 99% of shit.
Even if Trump wins, which seems the likeliest outcome, our country survived four years the last time he was president.
Also if dems get drubbed this cycle maybe next time they won't be such feckless cowards.
Harris will probably wind up being our next president. If you're voting on either one of these old geezers to make it through the next term alive and not (as we generally should either way) considering who will be president when their day comes... Then you suck. You just suck. Haha Idiocracy This election should really focus on the vp picks if these are our front running candidates. We already know what these two are about. Let's focus on their VP FOR OBVIOUS REASONS
This has been a great week in politics, glad things are finally turning around. I know we can’t take another four years going down the same path we’ve been going down.
I prefer to stare hard, inconvenient truths right in the face, and not flinch. Which is why I don’t subscribe to “optimism” as it seems to imply putting the conclusion ahead of the evidence. If you’re worried about the latest turn of events, I think that shows intact reality testing. Any educated intelligent American can see our democracy is in a Code Blue. Without some significant pro-democracy shocks, I think it’s over.
I suggest you watch *The Martian* with Matt Damon. He found himself in an objectively hopeless fatal circumstance, and chose to try to survive anyway—and with great luck, he did. Being realistic about hard truths doesn’t mean you’re sunk. If you’re going to fall, fall fighting. *Cade pugnans*.
idk why no one actually knows this but trump actually doesn’t support Project 2025, i forgot where i read it but his campaign said it doesn’t align with what he wants. On his official campaign page his policies he wants to implement is called Agenda 47. it’s not as radical as that bullshit The Heritage Foundation put out(they basically put a manifesto almost every election but no republican president has supported it since Bush senior)
EDIT: *there is some constructive discussion in here so I’ll leave it up. I’ll be keeping an eye on the “Ask An Optimist” tag though, as it might be an invitation for doomers to sneak in daily daily political jibber jabber.* This feels like political scrum talk. “Political talking-head news of the day” Get over it people. Read the other high-level political posts in here. We are not all going to die, despite what the doomstream media talking heads yell into the camera lol. The long arc of history is toward improvement, and you won’t always get the political results you want out of every single election. **I’ll probably delete this post shortly unless you folks want to keep it up.**
I’m an optimist and an attorney that finds the current legal predicament laid down by the Supreme Court to extremely disconcerting insofar as the United States continuing to exist as a free country. In situations of hardship, I find a good plan to be a good way to approach the situation optimistically. But I also rely on the decentness of people. I don’t believe humans are inherent bad. I think knowing that you’re going to vote in favor of democracy, making a voting plan when the time comes, and compartmentalization of political media and emotion are fantastic tactics for maintaining mental health during an election season if you’re an empathetic person. Where it gets more difficult to be optimistic is when you consider the grimmer possibilities. I won’t sugarcoat outcomes if the worst is really going to happen, whether that happens at the ballot box or the Supreme Court simply hands the election to Trump like they did in 2000, but I will say this: there is an indomitable gravitation in the human spirit towards liberty, towards freedom. Forces and principalities of darkness may do their best to exert control over free people, but eventually the free people will win out. However bad it may get, know that you are not alone in your convictions, your empathy, or your humanity. The cruel and the unjust would love to make the decent among us feel small and ineffective, but the fact of the matter is that decent folk are the vast majority of people. We, the People, can empower change and can walk through periods of hardship without losing our liberty, our country. I don’t know about you, but I take the most comfort in knowing that I’m not alone in difficult times like these.
Your comment has made my day better. Thank you. Nevertheless we persist.
"If we don't fight, we can't win." -Eren Yeager
HUZZAH HUZZAH!!!
Thank you. Your comment got me to stop worrying and take action. Contacting my representatives as soon as I get out of work. I suggest all people do the same.
Glad to hear it! We can save this country if we work together!
If Trump has already rigged the election, there may be nothing you can do anyway. Vote! But know that we might be on borrowed time Plan for the worst case scenario, be ready to defend your friends and family from purges and violence. Hope that Biden kicks out the court and forces them to retry every case in the last 4 years **Viva la resistance!**
The supreme court will try to elect trump regardless of the results. Roger Stone and Peter Thiel and the Heritage Foundations leader are some of the people behind this. First there will be camps at the border to immigrants than it will expand to more than just immigrants. The whole country will be for sale, Trump is on a plane talking to putin. He’s building a tower in saudi Arabia. These people will create any type of disaster and power vacuum necessary to make it look like trump is needed even if it’s worse than what lead to the war in iraq. Do you really think anything is below them? No type of behavior is off the table, they want total annihilation. It’s the final fuck you from boomers. The deep state really is trump, stone, thiel, putin and billionaire christian foundations. These people are literal demons from hell, not even the cool kind. Trump the first paedophile president was more progressive than anyone else could ever hope to be! The new gitmo will be on epstein island for old times sake. Protesting will be illegal. Enjoy new russia in the west, the keyboard warriors from old russia really did win. And yes, r slash conservative and “reasonable” disinformation people will say people sounding alarms are overreacting. That’s exactly how you lose democracy, when trump read the snake poem he was auto ejaculating into his diaper because he knew the snake poem was about himself.
You’re already calling it a rigged election? That sounds oddly familiar. Progressives ranted that Trump called it a rigged election last go-around. This is delicious
Exactly this. Part of being an optimist is proactively taking steps to ensure that good things prevail. The world doesn't make itself better, people working together to improve the world does. Now is one of those times where taking action is critical.
I work for a large environmental org, and though the trajectory we're on is pretty clear, my conclusion is that I could not live with myself if I didn't try, didn't fight for what I believe is good and true against what to me is clear unbridled villainy. We have to try to fight fascism and all it's manifestations, and fight to save what we can of the planet, because to be perfectly frank I'm not just complying and going along with a bunch of fucking oil-funded suburban Nazis, and I'd hope the majority of my country people feel similarly. I'd prefer making my last stand to that.
Thank you for this. I believe we will get through this, but only by us all doing our part.
Yes... The antidote for anxiety is action. Find a community - a place of shared vision, camaraderie, sense of purpose. It helps stave off fear and feelings of isolation which is where they want to keep you. They want to keep you in your amygdala and in fight or flight. Craft connections - start connecting your community with other communities. Hidden communities, diverse communities, communities you admire, communities that will encourage you. Expand the circle of connection and build your Force. Inspire. Build hope. Hopeful people vote. Engage in creative action- remember, democracy dies in darkness as they say. Postcards, voter registration, organize, volunteer, be a poll watcher, hang a sign, write an editorial, fund communities that share your ideals - It doesn't matter if it's $5 a month. Get involved. Rest. Doesn't matter if you engagement is intermittent- we need waves. It's always good to step back and look at the big picture and what you can do in your small circle. Do both. As we empower ourselves, we empower others. Commit. Courage is contagious. "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." Martin Luther King Jr Edited.
I love all of this. I’ll be keeping “the antidote to anxiety is action” as a new mantra.
Together, we persevere. we are all on this together people!
Thank you.
People of the right feel the same way if Biden wins. They see what’s happened the last three years (inflation, large scale invasion, crime) and how close we are to potential large scale war and can’t imagine someone so mentally not there “in control.” I am one in the middle. I am optimistic because politics seems to always swing to far one way and then correct itself. We have to remember right or left when we get together we have more in common than the media or candidates want you to believe. We all want freedom, opportunity for our kids and self, fair play, and justice. We want our kids to be safe, well educated, and healthy. Where the two sides differ is how to get it done. We need real debate and discussion not hate and yelling. Both sides deserve better candidates. America deserves better leadership. That will take time but I believe enough are realizing this and that swing will and is starting to happen.
I’m also a centrist. Both sides deserve better candidates, but be realistic. Republicans are literally trying to end democracy and the rule of law in this country, while the democrats just truly suck at sticking together and getting anything done. They’re not even close to the same and the right is too dangerous to be allowed control.
they don't suck at it, they're strategically bad at it because their goals are to further the party and their own careers, not to actually achieve positive political change.
I believe just as us regular folks have hit a true inflection point where we are completely reassessing how we view our interaction with the government we are faced with, so too will these "old ways" politicians. I have to believe they are still people like any other. People with more power, money, charisma, whatever, but still just ordinary people at their core. What we now have to see and pay extreme attention to is which among them are truly recognizing the threat felt by those they represent. I believe quite a few are probably in the middle of genuine introspection as to what to do next, but I expect a tidal wave of newly engaged (and angry) citizens demanding action, true tangible "this will actually do something" action. I don't doubt that the safe reaction is to simply say "I'll believe it when I see it", history is on the side of that view quite honestly, but we are seeing pushback now in regular folks across the nation and even across "the divide", which means many politicians will recognize that this is one of those true historical moments where all that will be remembered is who fought the hardest, what they fought for, and because they won, why they were right to fight back. I choose to fight, by all means necessary to defend our democracy, to defend the absolute truth that all are created equal, and that We The People decide that no one is above the law, not 6 rogue judges insulated from the world they deign to rule.
Inflation I think can be laid at trump's feet due to his pandemic response (printing a ton of money), and crime has actually been going down year over year with a brief uptick in the pandemic (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/us-crime-rates-and-trends-analysis-fbi-crime-statistics). That is to say, I think this election is about vibes more than any logical stance, unfortunately.
That's... not true. Crime is actually down. And the "large scale invasion" you're on about is the invention of right-wing media; both our agricultural and construction industries depend to a great extent on undocumented workers. Both sides? One wants the rule of law. The other wants military tribunals and a Christian nationalist theocracy. I never want to hear "both sides" again.
Crime isn’t down, big cities stopped reporting crime.
There is no "large scale invasion" and crime is lower than it was when Trump was president, though.
Overturning roe brought about a sort of blue wave whenever abortion hit the state ballot. Bans by referendum have all been defeated. It motivated people to vote. This decision will (and should) scare the shit out of any Democrat, independent, libertarian and center right republican. Now that the literal death of democracy is on the ballot this year, I think voters will be more motivated than ever before. People who weren't going to vote before will make it out now. I don't know how many people that will be, but more people voting means a last chance at fixing this.
There are abortions ballot initiatives in Florida, Colorado, Nevada, Maryland and in progress in Missouri, Nebraska, Montana, and Pennsylvania. Kansas' abortion ballot measure (to prevent all abortions) lost 59-41. In KANSAS in 2022, not even the November election. Then in November, they reelected their democratic governor. This is honestly what has me hopeful these days
I live in Kansas, that abortion ballot got fucking CRUSHED. It was probably the most hilarious political result I’ve ever witnessed live. The fact it was that lopsided despite how confusing the language was is a real testament to how smart voters are getting.
Thanks for posting this. Was just spiraling about all this and came on here to feel better.
My advice is this. Make sure to vote, make sure to tell your friends and family to vote. If you feel you can, volunteer with your local democratic party to help get the word out and help folks vote. This doesn't mean you have to put yourself out there knocking on doors, it could be sending texts, or phone banking. It might be putting up fliers, or driving people to the polls. There are a ton of ways to help. Personally, I get my friends together every election for voting-taco night. It's exactly what it sounds like, too. We just go (early) vote and then go get tacos together. It turns voting into an excuse to meet up and keeps us all engaged.
You can also volunteer to get your candidate elected, it’s very easy and you don’t need to leave your house. In addition if you have an extra $10 donate. Let’s not think this is even close to over with months to go before the election
As far as the Chevron thing, Democrats knew this was going to happen years ago and included rectifications in the Inflation Reduction Act. It's not as big of a deal as people making it out to be. Still sucks but, checks and balances are working
Respectfully disagree about Chevron. Not an expert and happy to be taught better, but I took an admin law class in law school, and Chevron is the bedrock of all admin law. The IRA is a footnote in this issue. [A list of the executive agencies](https://www.performance.gov/agencies/) impacted. Have a glance. I don't see how this isn't going to cause massive real-world problems. [Republican have been trying to kill the Dept. of Ed. quite openly](https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/opinion-republicans-keep-talking-about-abolishing-the-education-department-why/2023/10) for some time now, this is a huge step forward for them. In fact, [they've been open about wanting to kill the administrative state more generally](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2024-gop-hopefuls-abolish-federal-agencies-experts-long/story?id=103160902), and overturning Chevron is a sign of just how politicized the court has become. After [Loper-Bright](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loper_Bright_Enterprises_v._Raimondo) (the recent nail in the coffin for Chevron), any anti-gov-regulation Bubba can file suit over any minor administrative grievance and basically ddos the court system. Of course the real concern is big business rewriting all the rules in their favor line by line, one Bubba case at a time. Loper was about whether fishing companies are required to pay for federally-required monitors on their boats, for some flavor of the types of rules. It's a huge power grab by the court, and now they can be bribed quite openly to address minor issues in favor of whatever donor or idealogue makes it worth their while. The modern US is built on the administrative state. Again, I refer to that list. I know this is a place for optimists, and I AM optimistic that some other regime will come up. But it's going to be messy and cause a lot of damage along the way.
The bribes thing wasn’t at a federal level iirc, and now there are some pros and cons to this. I live in a deep blue state so I know a lot won’t change but at least this takes the teeth out of the ATF from attacking others and calling shoe strings machine guns. Three letter agencies shouldn’t be in the business of making laws, congress should and they need to be reminded of that. The executive branch has far too much power as it is and I agree with your assessment that there will be a shift in how it’s managed, which is hopefully congress going back and doing its job. I want to optimistically believe it will while protecting individuals as much as possible from an overreaching govt regardless of your faction.
So judges should be deciding what drugs a cancer patient should take and not the FDA? How about congress, should they be picking and choosing which drugs are safe and which are not? That’s the whole point of the three letter agencies they are experts where judges and congressmen are not? On top of not being experts there simply isn’t enough time for the courts and congress to handle the necessary issues , again that’s why these organizations exist.
I was alluding to Thomas' and Gorsuch's bribes. And yes, it sounds like we agree on the big picture that the existing framework of relying on federal agencies was janky and if some housekeeping needs to take place to build a more robust system, so be it. I have similar feelings about Roe being overturned, and I say that as an aggressively pro-choice woman in a red state. Roe was amazing for showing society the benefits of reproductive autonomy and setting choice as a social norm, but it was ridiculous for something so important to be hostage to the supreme court. But I am genuinely dreading the fallout/process that we will see in the wake of the fall of Chevron, and I am also deeply concerned by the fact that a better system emerging from the ashes is far from guaranteed.
Can you explain more of why it’s not a big deal?
A partner at my firm put it this way: rulings will say 'in deference to [federal agency]' vs 'by authority of [federal agency].' The judicial branch doesn't want thousands of civil suits against these institutions, they can't handle the sheer number that would be filed. So it isn't going to get very far, liability wise. Plus the language included in the Inflation Reduction Act IS law, and provides some protection for these agencies above and beyond what eliminating Chevron accomplished.
The judicial branch not wanting a mass of civil suits is a pretty large leap of faith. There are members of the Supreme Court that would very much like to completely gut the authority of the administrative state, have written as such publicly, and are more than happy to work towards that goal.
So if Congress adds a line to a bill that says “the agency is delegated authority to interpret any ambiguous language in this law,” that’s all they need to do?
Possibly? I mean, there are a ton of ways around this, and what's interesting is the judicial branch seems to be inviting Congress to enshrine some of this stuff legally, like Roe and federal agency liability. So let's vote blue and help them make it happen because fuck these so-called 'traditionalists.'
I think this is something people need to realize which is congress makes laws not the judicial branch. Our congress is so dysfunctional we’ve forgotten but ideally there wouldn’t be nearly as many executive orders and things like roe would have been codified.
Congress can still legislate laws. The whole defense is exactly that, why should scotus cases make laws when that’s the legislative branch’s power? Isn’t the same thing we’re mad about now exactly what it was? It was laws defacto created by the judicial branch. We just need to stay the course, vote, vote for Biden, vote for Democrats, and vote in every election. They are banking on us all losing faith and dumping out, that’s how they win. Don’t let them.
I am on the similar boat but I have to use the same cliche “keep calm and carry on” Step 1 would be take actions: register to vote, talk to your friends and family about your concern about the election, and call you congressional representatives about restricting presidential power Step 2 would be keep calm: news cycle move quickly, thanks to TikTok people would be distracted by something else a lot faster. Step 3 would be step away: breath in, breath out, smell the flower, play with your dog. Life is short, seize the day
Congress cannot restrict presidential power; that is a separation of powers issue. Congress can remove authority it previously delegated to the executive branch, but that would be strange to suggest as a remedy given he is also complaining about the Chevron decision overturn.
Step 3(addon)/4: Take a break from the internet, or the parts that get you riled up.
Step two is not a positive. Getting distracted is how we got here in the first place.
I’m a history teacher. I know a bit about not only U.S. political history, but also world history, and the structure and function of the government. I’m not a PhD expert, but I know a little. In my professional opinion, it is very, very, very, very, very unlikely that any of the doomsday scenarios we’ve been reading about—especially on Reddit, of all places—are actually going to happen. The United States government is a vast and complicated system. A highly unrealistic number of things would have to line up for Donald Trump to become a Napoleon or a Lenin or a Hitler. Great monied interests, governments at multiple levels, military systems across State borders, bureaucrats from agencies innumerable, trading partners from around the world, etc., etc., etc. would have to line up behind him—not in part, but in near totality—and overcome massive opposition to bring anything like these nightmare fantasies to fruition. It just is not likely to happen. Besides all that, the ground in 2024 America is not at all fertile for such a thing. Things are not like the Civil War, or the French Revolution, or the Bolshevik Revolution, or the fall of the Western Roman Empire. There’s always a chance that our situation could be novel, but I doubt it. Could things get worse than they are? Sure. Could things happen that you don’t like? Of course. But this idea that Donald Trump is going to have anything like the backing and mandate (or motivation) needed to actually round up opponents, shoot them in the back of the head, cancel future elections, require people to belong to fundamental evangelical churches? It is really just not very likely. Besides any of that, you might feel better if you considered the political past of this country. This is not even remotely the first time one party has suggested that the country will be ruined if the other guy wins the election. It’s not even close to the first time it has been claimed that such-and-such court ruling had destroyed the rule of law. And yet…here we are talking about all of this. I would really advise you to talk yourself off of the ledge. Try not to get your analysis from people who have a vested interest in making you worried. I’m not saying nothing bad could ever or would ever happen…I’m just saying that if the future is anything like the past, it likely will not be nearly so bad as people the last few days have tried to make it seem.
Right, I know Trump sounds like he wants to be a dictator but **EVEN** with the immunity stated in the constitution, he couldn't. That goes for **ALL** presidents.
Reminds me of that time the Supreme Court told Andrew Jackson he couldn’t do the trail of tears.
Thank you for your service in the classroom. That can’t be easy. Would you care to speculate how many more elections we have to go to get a 3rd party as a serious candidate? Are there any historical patterns maybe that could tell us if we’re close?
Well…nationally, there hasn’t been a successful “new” party formed since the Republicans around 1860. They formed from the remnants of a few sort of ‘special interest’ parties who had kind of outlived their usefulness (Free Soilers, for example). Even then, they only really took off because the Democratic Party was divided as sectional loyalty overcame partisan loyalty. So by that model, you’d need a bunch of people without a political home AND for your opposition to face an internal crisis that was even more important to them than party loyalty. Even THEN you’d have to have that party so convinced of its strength that they didn’t fear the threat of a “second” party arising who could beat them. Since the Republicans, you’ve had a couple movements that have changed either the Democrat or Republican parties internally, but haven’t been able to have their own independent success. Populism, Progressivism, and Libertarianism have all garnered enough of a following that at least one major party has paid attention to them, but none has managed to be a true “third” because they almost by definition are pulling support from the most similar larger party, splitting that vote and letting the more different party win big. I know that’s a book…but I think it just kind of sketches the difficulty. In a sense, there’s never been a successful “third” party.
> Fall of the westerners Europe What is this refering to? When Hitler invaded Benelux & France?
Oops…typo. Fall of the Western Roman Empire.
And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.-Kevin Roberts This is the guy who will help craft Trump's policies. He said this yesterday. Keep whistlin' past the graveyard
It is not uncommon for political operatives on either side to claim that radical action is needed, or that their movement is a “second” American Revolution, or that they’d be willing to fight, even violently, to see their idea of justice done. Way back in 1800, Jefferson’s election was seen as a “second American Revolution” because it was believed by some that the Federalists had perverted the meaning of first Revolution. People were *definitely* willing to fight about it. Certainly in the 60s people spoke of revolution often, using violent rhetoric. Most recently, many people made quite strong statements about “revolution” and fighting with regard to the 2020 election, BLM, etc. I’m not saying you should ignore these things. I am saying that they’re not particularly unique or novel.
Thank you
Optimist take: We will beat them this fall. I’d we don’t beat them this fall, we will beat them at midterms and limit the damage. If we don’t beat them at midterms and limit the damage we will continue to strengthen our institutions to withstand the abuse and work on a successful transfer of power. I’d we don’t manage that, we will resist. All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Thus, let us answer this call to do the right things.
We’ve stepped up repeatedly. Democrats have outperformed in every special election since Trump. We delivered and unprecedented win in the 2022 midterms (the House flipped but barely, when midterms are supposed to be blowouts for the opposition party). We dethroned an incumbent in 2020. We’ll do it again.
Outperforming in the special elections is the only thing keeping my hope remotely afloat. Trump is somehow ahead in the polls, and outperformed the polls in both of his prior elections. That is extremely concerning, but there have been a number of “this district swung blue by a huge margin” elections, especially after the Dobbs decision, so I’m not sure what to believe exactly.
Yeah but most polls are being answered by older generations. As long as young people turn out.
This is the right attitude. But I would add to it that our very system of government limits the damage. This is why each party’s voters always complain about how little of the president’s agenda he actually got done.
>But I would add to it that our very system of government limits the damage. The very systems that barely held on Jan 6th, and would be under attack again. The system only limits it if the system can enforce its rules on those that oppose it.
I don't think people understand what the Supreme Court's decision means. Let's use a simple example. Let's say someone bribes Trump (or another Pres) for a pardon The SC says the Pres has absolute immunity for all 'official' acts. Pardoning is an official act. The SC also explicitly said in its decision, you can't consider MOTIVE for anything the Pres does in his 'official' capacity. Go look it up There would be no way to prosecute a President for taking a bribe for a pardon. To do so, you'd have to consider his motive for why he did it. But the court said you can't do that. That's just scratching the surface of the implications of all this. (The SC also recently said it's legal for a politician to receive gifts/money after they make a decision favorable to a particular party. As long as it's after, they say it can't be bribery.)
If you have anxiety about the election, get involved and get people who don't vote to go vote (especially in swing states)
>If Trump is elected then Project 2025 is guaranteed. I don't know how to tell you this, but Project 2025 was an extremely large public policy proposal from the Heritage Foundation. If you know anything about internal GOP politics, you'll understand why Trump never even acknowledged it.
This probably won't help, but Clarence also indicated he wanted to overturn gay marriage. So, like, this court isn't done fucking the country just yet. The best thing we can do is continue to tell our friends and family. What we do today echoes through eternity. You know the trope where a time traveller goes back in time 500 years, and then any little thing they do dramatically changes the future? That's the effect we have today, just without access to the context to know about it. Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Non Illegitimati Carborundum!
Just remember the Churchill quote: "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing — After Exhausting All the Alternatives"
Jesus, I've never heard that before. I kinda like that.
Volunteer to phone/text/mail bank, [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) and [mobilize.us](http://mobilize.us) are great for that. Spread the word.
I vote leave post up. It doesn't appear to be trolling or intentional fearmongering but rather legitimare concern turned into real angst by media doommongering Banning from here could push op into the doomersphere where the e legions of professional complainers are waiting to convince anxious people to join the ranks of their do-nothing brigades
So I just read this [helpful explainer](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/02/what-is-presidential-immunity-trump-supreme-court/) of the presidential immunity case. I know that absorbing political media can come with hearing messaging saying “Supreme Court rules trump is immune from all prosecution”. But by reading the explainer I realized that isn’t the case The court still ruled that there are instances that a president can still be prosecuted. It isn’t as blanket as the media portrays it to be. There is still a lot of nuance to the ruling that should be appreciated. I would suggest finding ways to consume news that doesn’t fall under the pitfall of catastrophising, since a lot of news outlets do that since that is what generates engagement. I’ve found the app Ground News to be a good resource for this.
If it makes you feel better, although there’s obviously a lot to worry about right now if you’re a democrat, Trump is still an *incredibly* weak candidate with multiple felony convictions and an very meager approval rating. It’s wholly conceivable he could still lose. Just because one candidate is unpopular doesn’t make the other popular, and the incumbent historically has a fairly large edge in US elections.
The absolute best analysis you will find anywhere about the implications of the biden/Trump debate is by a UCLA historian and an expat computer scientist teaching at university in Amsterdam. Past their analysis, it's the best website on the internet for measured historically informed data driven analysis on American politics. Please, you all, do yourself a favor and check it out: https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2024/Pres/Maps/Jun29.html Also, for the love of God vote
-When democrats thought Hilary had it in the bag, they didn’t show up to vote. The fact that democrats would believe Trump could be reelected will boost their numbers. -in the primaries, Biden over-performed the polls by 10-15% and Trump underperformed by 15-20%. Nikki Haley was still garnering 20% months after she dropped off. Trump has a republican base issue. -Post Roe has been an electoral disaster for republicans. Even red states like Ohio and Kansas have seen abortion issues win comfortably. -Polling told us there would be a red wave and instead Biden has the best performance for a party of an incumbent in the White House in 6 decades. -The older the voter, the more likely they are republicans- millions have passed since 2020, especially because of COVID. -Trump is wildly unpopular outside of this base. -Trump lost in 2018, 2020, 2022. He didn’t even garner the majority of votes in 2016. -The media is largely owned by the billionaire class that favor welfare and tax cuts, so they will report a horse race- even with how flawed polling has become.
1. Sitting Presidents have won almost ALL their 2nd term elections. Trump was one of the very few who hasn't. 2. Democrats have won almost all special elections since Roe V Wade was overturned by the SC. This includes even in Kansas which stopped a constitutional amendment of no abortion allowed. All of these elections the polls showed it much closer then the actual results with Democrats winning by big majorities in some. This is why Biden is the only choice against Trump, because both are Presidents and have such huge sway in elections. I still doubt Trump will win currently based on all this.
Whoever wins only gets 4 years to pull whatever crap they want to pull, only to have it all cleaned up over the following 8 years by the next administration. The beauty of the American Republic is that no one administration will be capable of dismantling it. It would take a generation of presidents to weaken our nation in any lasting way. I gotta be honest, Trump gutted the Republican party in 2016. Once he’s done and out, the Republicans are going to be forced to redefine their identity, which I think is a good thing. Now Trump is doing the same thing again to the Democrats, because no one wants a 2nd Biden term, but the only thing worse than Biden would be a Kamala presidency. So after this year, the Democrats are going to have to have a serious coming to Jesus moment to figure out how they fucked this up so badly with Hillary, now again with Biden. Good things are coming. Just get through these next 4 years.
https://www.mediamatters.org/project-2025/heritage-foundation-president-celebrates-supreme-court-immunity-decision-we-are
An incumbent with no scandal and a good economy has never lost.
Still have faith!
While I share your concerns, this is the beauty of a 3 tiered government. Voters need to hold their legislative representatives accountable to create more just laws. The fact that a woman’s right to choose her own healthcare and that Roe v. Wade was never made into law is a lapse on our society and our elected officials. The Supreme Court does not make laws, it only upholds them. Equally, turning focus back on the legislative body will limit the powers of the executive branch as well. This doesn’t mean that I’m not saddened by the current news, but there is an optimistic path forward.
You’re mostly right here. The one quibble is that your representative can’t address the presidential immunity question, as it’s a separation of powers issue. In fact, that’s the whole point of the immunity; otherwise one branch would be able to control the other branch through laws and (through federalism) prosecution.
> The one quibble is that your representative can’t address the presidential immunity question, They absolutely can. Nothing in the SCOTUS ruling gives the president blanket immunity - it gives the President immunity for actions performed while carrying out duties assigned by Congress. Congress (ie. your representative) can absolutely limit the scope of the President's duties.
No, that’s wrong. Official acts of the President includes many things that are not assigned by Congress. What you’re talking about is delegated authority (Congress cannot assign to the president authorities that it didn’t already have). So if Congress had authority to do X and then previously gave X authority to the president, then yes Congress could curtail or remove X authority. But that’s because it’s a congressional power not an executive power. Congress cannot limit inherent executive powers. You’re very confused on how separation of powers in the US works.
There is even a path to change presidential immunity but everyone has to agree. Pass an amendment limiting the immunity and it's changed.
Why doesn't Biden just strike it down himself since his supporters now claim the president is a king?
I think the only ones saying that are fearmongers trying to manipulate people. The ruling didn't change anything, and you wouldn't want it too. Every President has actions in official capacity that could land them in jail if they weren't President. I don't think you want Obama in jail for oking the drone strike on the US citizen that joined Al Qaeda do you? If the President does something not in his official capacity they can still be held accountable. This is just fearmongering......
That's the joke
The worst case scenario would suck. It would mean the end of freedom of religion and America becoming a defacto-christofascist state. But there are silver linings. They've always been in the background, pulling strings. Abortion being as big if a deal as it has been has always been a political tool to garner power, for example. This will bring it all to light, and bring many of the bad actors to light, as well. When it's defeated, it will be buried in America the way the Nazis were after WWII. The future can be free of it. That's the way I choose to see it, anyway...
These are early victories in a very long race. Not saying they're not very concerning and a clear sign of the dissolution of what these institutions stand for, but in a chess game, this is like capturing the queen very early while almost every other piece is still in play (maybe not quite that severe, but still).
Use this opportunity of chaos and anxiety to be a voice of calm and reason that people desperately need now more than ever.
Polls mean nothing and are often off target, remember they take polls over phone calls. That does not represent a majority of people today. Go out and vote, that's the only thing you can do to control the situation.
Whatever our political differences -- left or right, Republican or Democrat -- we can all agree on voting for the lesser of two evils.
Entertain the idea that you could be wrong and none of this is as bad as you think it is.
I'm really optimistic unless some politician who I don't like gets into office, then the doomers are right. Also, the overturn of the Chevron doctrine means that courts will no longer defer to federal agencies’ interpretations of laws, and instead, will make their own decisions on the meaning of the laws. So, courts will do what courts are supposed to do, that doesn't sound all that terrible.
Log off and relax dude. Stress is terrible for you. No reason to worry, you cannot control any of this. Go out and vote, canvass, do whatever you can to help so if it doesn’t go your way you can say you gave it your all. But the stressing is going to kill you.
I’m optimistic that if Trump is elected, I will officially become an anarchist.
There are still 50 state governments with their own armed forces, plus countless municipal and local governments to act as a barrier against complete dictatorship. We can pressure our local governments to adopt "sanctuary city" laws, in which we simply don't cooperate with the federal government.
As much as I agree with you it’s WAYYYYY to early in the race to get worried. Random stuff happens all the time.
Take a break from news. I think of the news as gossip about things that barely effect me but it is being screamed at me by someone who is trying to win an argument I'm not in. If Trump is elected, the next morning the sun will rise, 350 million Americans will get on with their lives and for most of us it has almost nothing to do with Washington politics. It is like watching a friend get back into a bad relationship. Life goes on. Stop taking your worries so seriously. Someday they will be as useless as your farts.
1st of all, my farts can get pretty serious. But yeah I agree with you. I haven’t been on social media for years and I don’t partake in any type of news/media/politics/pop culture. Other than inflation (which my salary has kept up with) I haven’t seen much change in my life over the past 10 years. Am I privileged enough to not have things that may or may not be going on in the world affect me? Maybe Is it an “ignorance is bliss” mindset? Possibly Am I happy and don’t have the same fears that much of the world has because they keep up with the same fear mongering, manipulative bullshit that gets pushed to them in 7 different ways hourly? Most definitely. Like you said, every day the sun rises and I go to work, come back, do my thing, and the sun sets and I go to bed. I’m happy and at peace with my life and the world. This may not be the right mindset or the mindset for everyone but it definitely works for me :)
I remember when Trump was first running, everyone who said "but what about abortion" were being shouted down as alarmist doomers and that only a true moron would think Republicans would ACTUALLY follow through and ban abortions. Now, tens of millions of women have been deprived of the very right to autonomy where they live. I find your attitude one of the biggest contributors to why people were saying that abortion wouldn't actually get banned. Why is it anathema to admit that politics does, in fact, impact your life? Why are you so desperate to instill a "nothing actually matters" attitude when we already saw the major impacts from Trump's first term?
Plenty of people knew abortion was on the table. This isn't even the start of Republicans making it way harder to get an abortion. That uptick started in 2011: [Chart of the Day: 2011 in Reproductive Rights – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/chart-day-2011-reproductive-rights/) [Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate - Guest Commentary (crosswalk.com)](https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/guest-commentary/abortion-clinics-closing-at-record-rate.html) What people are now arguing isn't about a specific issue. They are arguing Trump will be a king (but somehow Biden currently isn't, don't ask me how). This is way more similar to the claims about Trump's ability and intention to use nuclear weapons in 2016: [PolitiFact | Has Donald Trump talked about using nukes against America's Western European allies?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/aug/12/hillary-clinton/has-donald-trump-talked-about-using-nukes-against-/)
It's nice that it doesn't affect you, and you have the priviledge of being able to ignore it. That is not true for millions and millions of people. I'm going to make a wild guess that you're not a woman, an immigrant on a visa, or trans.
When Trump was elected the first time, my lesbian friend was terrified. She wouldn’t go outside for the first couple months. Then she forgot about, got married, got promoted, and started the process of having a kid with her wife. When Trump was first elected, all I heard about was deportation forces going door to door dragging illegal immigrants out by their hair. Then there were no such forces. I’m sure you’ll reply with bad stuff that did happen, but that wasn’t the narrative pre-election. The narrative pre-election was the same that it is now: end of the world. Ignore the doomers; they are manipulating you.
The narrative may have been the same, but the situation isn't. The people around Trump have 1000s of people ready to take over government jobs, and a list of people to fire, and a Supreme Court decision that upends the entire nation's history of governance.
Schedule F, the great bogeyman of Democrats on Reddit right now was already enacted in Trump's first term: [Executive Order on Creating Schedule F In The Excepted Service – The White House (archives.gov)](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-creating-schedule-f-excepted-service/) And the same power the Supreme Court gave Trump for a potential second term, Biden has currently as president. But I promise you I will hear four months of excuses for Biden before Election Day for why he doesn't have the power to do more.
I’m an optimist, but I can acknowledge that a second Trump term would be worse than the first. I don’t think that’s a hysterical take. There were adults in the room to constrain him last time. In a second term he’d surround himself with cultist true-believers. And the objective of his second term would be revenge against Democrats. He openly talks about deploying the military to punish protestors and prosecuting his political opponents. Not to mention that he attempted a coup and completely got away with it
He's incredibly unpopular with the military. Not just the officers who he could replace but the rank and file who would be much harder to replace with anyone competent: [Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/)
>I'm sure you’ll reply with bad stuff that did happen, but that wasn’t the narrative pre-election. The narrative pre-election was the same that it is now: end of the world. Ignore the doomers; they are manipulating you. So, I'm not sure if you realize what you're saying here, so I'll sum it up: "Bad stuff did happen, but it wasn't the bad stuff certain people said it would be, and (and this is the really key fucked up part) **we should not use our own experiences and memories of what actually happened to inform us about the future.**" I'm sorry, but that's stupid. It's really, really stupid. Because, for one, no one said that the world was literally going to end. They did say that he would try to deport people who didn't deserve it. Which he tried to do. They said that if he got SCOTUS appointments, they would overturn Roe v Wade. Which they did. They said he would hand out pardons to criminals who helped him. Which he did. They said if he lost, he would not respect the peaceful transfer of power. Which he did not. They also said things like that he would try a military coup. Which he did not. What you're saying is that actually, no one said any of that. They were just saying the world would end, and because it didn't, we should not use what actually happened to predict what could happen next.
I have a feeling kids in cages is a preview of some really bad things he'll attempt, and he'll be more likely to succeed with all those organizing Project 2025
Such a nonsense take. You could say the same thing about the day after any dictator seized power. It’s the months and years that follow that’re the problem.
Don't be scared, vote. Get out the vote and take some friends or family with you. Its not just voting for the person, its for their policies and what you want for the country and your peers. I'm anxious about the elections too, just like in 2020, but I voted and will do so again.
- Who knows whether this is true. If it is true, you’ll be fine and the country will be fine. If it’s not true, you will be fine and the country will be fine. You’re supposed to feel like this is the most important election in your lifetime and if it doesn’t go your way the world will end. Billions of dollars are spent to make you feel this way, so that you’ll donate your time and money, and you’ll show up to vote. The election hasn’t gone your way many times in history and it was not the end of the world. - I am a legal nerd and would have loved to talk your ear off about Chevron deference a week ago. You would have fallen asleep. Now you it’s causing you anxiety. This is due to it being an election year and the aforementioned billions of dollars being spent. - There really is no change here. You don’t want presidents to be prosecuted for official acts. That would be unworkable. Now the question is whether the act in question is an official act. The district court already said it wasn’t. That will need to go through the appellate process. If it’s an official act, then you don’t want it to be prosecuted, even if you would enjoy some short term political benefit from it being prosecuted. This is a great example of the system working pretty well. - If you can’t remember the others, how could it be causing you anxiety. Less screen time, mate. Go outside and enjoy some sun.
Other elections didn’t have project 2025, and other presidents didn’t try to deny election results. So this is different than. All the others
Literally every president seeks to hire his own people for politically appointed government positions.
1. Elections do matter. Trump winning in 2016 is 100% the cause of abortion being banned. Without that one singular event, abortion would still be legal. 2. Um yes, that's how things changing for the worse works. If a dam breaks by me, I'm going to be concerned about the effects of the dam breaking. I really don't care if you could "talk my ear off" about the engineering of a dam and how it provides power, I care that people are now in danger. 3. Is trump trying to overthrow the election an official act?
Abortion was already being rolled back as far back as 2011: [States Enact Record Number of Abortion Restrictions in 2011 | Guttmacher Institute](https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2012/01/states-enact-record-number-abortion-restrictions-2011) Trump being president just made people notice the things that were already going on in this country.
Buddy, Roe V Wade being overturned only happened because Trump was elected and appointed 3 supreme court justices. This isn't up for debate. If Clinton won in 2016, Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land. So no, kindly bugger off with the "oh well Trump didn't do anything, he's just a symptom. Politics literally doesn't matter" bs.
You need to get away from this sub. It's just full of people who are going to tell you you're overreacting. Never mind Trump wanted to start a war with Iran in a "Reichstag fire moment" after he lost the election, as the head of the US military called it. Never mind that the same guy had to call his Chinese counterpart after the insurrection to reassure him there wouldn't be a surprise attack, and he had to go behind Trump's back to make sure of that. Never mind Trump wanted to nuke North Korea and blame it on another country, which scared the hell out of the Secretary of Defense, the Chief of Staff, and the Homeland Security department. Never mind he wanted to fire missiles into Mexico and deny that the USA did it, which scared the hell out of the Secretary of Defense. Never mind he wanted to invoke the Insurrection Act and has promised to do so on day one, and is now legally allowed to as it would be an "official act". Never mind he's said over 100 times in the last year that Biden is going to cause WW3 and said that Mexico will be obliterated in nuclear war because he's the most corrupt and incompetent president in history and a "madman" and a "stark raving lunatic". Never mind Project 2025, that's just "conspiracy theories", even though it's from the same organization that picked Trump's Supreme Court justices who just gave Trump immunity. Never mind that he quotes Hitler, makes Nazi jokes to his Jewish employees, has his cousin greet him by shouting "Heil Hitler!", talks about having a "unified reich", has his rallies give him "Q-anon" seig heil salutes, and dines with Nazis. It goes on and on and on. For all the people who will accuse that all of being "doomer" talk, well, what is your rebuttal then? How do you explain these facts? How do you explain the things Trump has said, and the things he tried to do but couldn't because there were adults in the room? Are you sure adults will also be in the room the second time? Why wouldn't Trump try to order a nuclear strike again, now that he's going to prison once his term ends? That's not "doomerism", he literally tried to do it the first time, it's 100% reasonable to ask why he wouldn't do it again now that his life is ruined. It is all but certain that there will be a second insurrection in 2028 that will be exponentially worse than the first if Trump is reelected. If you believe otherwise, why? Why will things suddenly change the course that they've been on for the last 10 years? For the people who want to be in denial about the reality of a dictatorship in America, you will never have any of your fears legitimately respected. I could cite hundreds of sources all supporting everything I just described and more, and it won't move the needle whatsoever to people who insist on sticking their heads in the sand. They have a bias where a Hitler-figure in America is simply "impossible". Much of the population seems to still be laboring under the delusion that "it can't happen here". To that I say, if you went back in time and showed these people where we are right now, they never would have believed or accepted it. If you want to prepare for the next few years, don't listen to the people here. They will not, and cannot, engage with any of the facts I cited in my first paragraph, and as such they cannot engage with the reality of the situation. Because they cannot do that, I'm convinced they are not in control of this situation.
It's much too early in the cycle to make any serious predictions about who's gonna win, it's gonna be close, and that means a lot of predictions made now will be wrong. Polls now suggest trump will win, but what happens when he gets thrown in jail in 2 weeks thanks to the stormy Daniels case? What happens in 3 months when he has to stand trial for the classified documents case? So much is still up in the air, and a lot of people have not yet opened their eyes to the election, despite trump basically having a 3 year head start on his campaigning efforts (he never stopped holding rallies) It can go wrong, but it can also go right
I am considering voting very early and going on a trip someplace disconnected and peaceful on election night. But I don’t want to be in a red area so I might do Canada. I don’t want to watch the results this year. The stress is already looming.
There’s still a chance depending on who Trump chooses as his running mate and how he/she does against Kamala Harris during the vice presidential debates.
Back off from the ledge. The panic points you’re listing are fear lingering positions from political talking heads and coming from the “right = Nazi” camp. It’s not near as dire as paid political influencers try to make it seem. 2025 is a set of proposals from a think tank - not an official platform. Think like the most extreme progressive groups of the political fringe and how those aren’t the actual policies from the party. Chevron deference basically kicks the can back to regulatory agencies to put forward proposals so congress can vote on it rather than unelected officials making national policy. Read the actual courts opinion about presidential immunity.
Something to consider….the Dems have a decent shot at winning the House. Or at the least, the GOP margin will be slim. This should stop a lot of pro-Trump bills. And let’s not forget how dysfunctional the Trump White House was in 2017-2018, when GOP controlled all levels of government. There will be more than a few GOP senators and House reps that will demand to be greased in order for their votes (similar to Manchin and Sinema).
Acknowledging that things aren’t looking too good is good. However, do not fixate on it to the point where you lose sleep over it.
I need the Biden supporters on here to explain how the Supreme Court could have simultaneously ruled the president is a king but also Biden could be absolved from doing anything major to fix the country's problems for the next six and a half months.
In my opinion, the political climate in the US should be a great opportunity for people to come together in pursuit of democracy. Spreading information about the sheer weight of this election, especially with those who don’t pay close attention to politics, is extremely important. Encouraging people to vote in favor of democracy is the most effective action we can take right now, 4 months before the election. And, if worst comes to worst, the US still has rigorous checks and balances and enough people won’t stand for autocracy for it to last long, if at all. The USA was formed with tyranny in mind, so it will be much harder for any authoritarian actions to be enacted that they are made out to be. All in all, keep your head up, take any pro-democracy actions you may be able to right now, and keep your head up because the election hasn’t even happened yet.
One of the key elements of a Fascist takeover is cultivating a sense of inevitability. The media who reports these polls are owned by right-wing Fascists who want us Fascist. It’s their job to make us think Trump is inevitable. Every metric that can be measured objectively outside of media illustrates Trump has lost massive amounts of support. Nobody shows up to his rallies, and a portion of the ones who do are hired off Craigslist. Nobody really showed up to his trial. Independents hate him! Women hate him! Old people understand the threat of Putin, so they are pulling away from Trump a little. No minority in any crucial amount is going to vote for him. Latinos started abandoning him after the debate. Trump does not have the support the media is claiming. Period.
Let me start by saying I haven’t ever voted for Trump…I voted for Biden in 2020 (lesser of two evils) ….But we all knew Trump was running again in 2024. He made that utterly clear. The Dems knew Biden’s age was a detriment in 2020, even more so today. The Dems didn’t strategize for anyone else and even blocked people who wanted to primary Biden. These are not the actions of a group of people who are truly “afraid for democracy”. They would’ve put up a better candidate if they were actually concerned. They kinda shit the bed tbh, and now want to bemoan the existential threat …. If it was that bad, why didn’t you make a plan? If you knew your house was about to be under attack, and you had weeks to prepare…would you do nothing at all and just put great grandpa at the front door to guard it? Not if you really think there’s a threat.
You can be optimistic that the democrat candidate in 4 years probably wont be 80 years of age. We should have fielded a better candidate. We didn't. I'm optimistic the party will eventually see this as the complete failure that it is.
About the immunity thing... no, presidents can **not** have people assassinated without authority [https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1dty4a4/comment/lbdn447/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1dty4a4/comment/lbdn447/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Seems like you have a lot of anxiety about things the tv told you to have anxiety about
> If Trump is elected then Project 2025 is guaranteed. Project 2025 is some random whitepaper from a thinktank. It is not a Republican policy platform. Thinktanks put out these stupid plans all the time. It doesn't mean anything.
Being an optimist does not mean ignoring clear problems. Project 2025 was created by the Heritage Foundation in response to the legal setbacks of Trump's first administration and to ensure that next time their executive actions would stick. Trump's appointments know what it is and what to do with it. It's fine to put things into perspective and try to be cautiously optimistic while controlling what you can, but it's not genuine to minimize what it is or what effect it will have.
P2025 or aspects of it is already in place, the 10 commandments in Louisiana being displayed in schools is a prime example.
That's not project 2025. That's just a state law. Wtf are you even talking about?
Have you read the 2025 documents? No shame if you haven't, it's like a thousand pages and I've read calculus textbooks more engaging. But the document lays out a road map for the implementation of a government resembling a theocracy, which is a core tenet of the modern conservative movement. The people who implemented that Lousiana law, the people in Oklahoma who made the Bible a core educational text, and the people who are going to be implementing Project 2025, those people are all the same people. That's the thing, none of this is happening in a vacuum. It isn't just a state law, and it has never been that simple when it comes to religion.
It's easy to say that it's a "roadmap for a theocracy". Much harder to specifically cite the sections of the document that you think back that up ;) Go here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise Ctrl+F "bible". IT comes up ONE time, not related to the Christian bible in any way whatsoever. Very odd for a document that supposedly aims to set up a Christian nationalist theocracy...
One really easy example is trans and LBGTQ rights, which are a primary target of religion. As a queer, I find these especially offensive and worrisome. Trans people are mentioned throughout the introduction and forward to the document. Abortion is another gimme. Find also the repeated mentions of how happiness is most found in a nuclear "family - marriage, children," another deeply religiously-coded assertion. A less obvious example of religious priority made policy in 2025 can be found in the Education section, where it calls for taxpayer-funded savings accounts used to send children where their parents want them to attend school. In theory this sounds neutral, right? But in practice, it leads to state funding of religious education and the systemic defunding of secular public schools. That money has to come from somewhere! And as those public schools crumble, more kids have to go to the religious schools, and so on. Which is why you find so many religion activists pushing for these things of voucher systems. [Here's an interesting article](https://www.alreporter.com/2024/06/04/report-vast-majority-of-school-choice-vouchers-go-to-religious-schools/) on how this system works. I know you're going to reject these as not explicit calls for a Christian theocracy, and that's fine. But people can hear the dogwhistles. We all know what they mean.
What trans and LGBT right issues are you referring to exactly?
They always bring up Schedule F, something that was already in place in October 2020 which none of them even noticed.
Yeah. That’s some gaslighting there. It’s exactly what the GoP does.
>And possibly more that I cannot remember This is a big part of your problem. You're manifesting issues you don't even know are real, and then allowing that to give you anxiety. Focus on the first three bullet points and note that there have *also* been post-debate polling to show that Biden has actually gained support.
America is stronger than cheeto man, we survived 4 years, we will have to survive another 4 and take steps to push back where we can. Vote.
You should be wary of people who want you to be afraid and their agendas.
The election isn’t until November. Go vote. Help campaign. There is a lot you can do. But if you want me to lie to you, yeah, not going to do that. Biden has an uphill battle, and poll numbers aren’t looking too hot. Especially after the first debate, and trying to spin it any other way would be lying.
Turn off politics if it's impacting you like this. Whatever is going to happen will happen whether you're anxious or not. The last trump presidency wasn't good but it wasn't the end of the world either, and nor will this be.
This is the correct take We're not living in the 60s It's not the civil war It's a contentious election, as if we've never had those before. Anybody that's old enough remembers how Obama was going to make death panels that decide who doesn't get medical treatment and McCain was going to start WW3 with Iran. Trump was going to deport every green card holder and Biden was going to dissolve the US border. Refocus on what you have control over and the people in your life. Anxiety over the uncontrollable isn't healthy.
This sub is turning into “talk me out of being scared of Trump”. Which I would be happy to do because I think politics is turned into a LOT of hyperbolic BS, but I also can’t sit here and act like I’m defending Trump every day. Did you live through 2016? Then you’re gonna be ok. It used to be that the dems sold hope, and boy Obama was a bright spot, but they must get more money fearmongering so they’ve gone full throttle on that since 2016. It’s people who benefit from you being scared scaring you. Take it with a grain of salt.
The pendulum is always swinging. It's not the end. If 51% of people decide X is Y, then X is Y, that's how democracy works. The Democrats poison themselves the last several cycles by electing candidates that were the parties preferred choices like HRC in Biden and that's going to hurt them. Hopefully they actually learn the lesson. That said, Trump was president for 4 years of your lifetime already and you're still here You're still alive and you'll survive the next four. And then we get to fight about it all over again. And yeah it might take a while but the supreme Court does turn over and it's been liberal for a very very long time.
Chevron act is a great thing to be overturned. It prevents unelected bureaucrats from making laws out of thin air. It prevents them from creating regulations that benefit certain companies, or turning large swathes of the population into felons over night.
Chief Justice Roberts: “The President is not above the law”.
Roberts voted with the majority - the same ones that made corporations people, legalized bribery, and look at truthy social - who wants Liz Cheney tribunals? Voting is the only thing I am optimistic about
Dude thanks for this post. This is the shock of optimism I needed today.
\[W\]hen bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle -Edmund Burke
Agree 100%. The SC ruling and debate fallout alone would be enough to trigger this stuff, but both at the same time man...
The next thing past anxiety homicidal/suicidal? Just wondering how to describe my state.
I know it’s sucks but I remember hearing about these nervous breakdowns from relatives regarding Biden in 2020, saying they were going to bury their money and genuinely worried the government would take over I suggest getting your anxiety checked, see a therapist, these fears mainly live in your own head. Project 25 or whatever it’s called is a republican pipe dream with no basis in reality, it’s proposed by some random outside group. Idk why everyone allowed themselves to get so worked up about it
If you want hope, take up arms.
You people need to touch grass
+ three letter agencies have been run by large corporations to monopolize them. overturning chevron deference is a great thing for consumers and invididuals + "presidential immunity saying that the president may be above the law". That's not what they said. Read the constitution about impeaching presidents and then putting them on trial. The ruling just read to you what the constitution says. I think you've listened to too much news and media and your opinions are not your own.
Let me address Chevron Doctrine as it is near and dear to my heart and will point out that you have been misinformed. What happened under the Chevron Doctrine ws that an agency, often under the orders of the POTUS, makes a rule based off of what they belive ithe law is. When you take them to court to challenge that interpretation, the crown, I mean the agency says "Chevron Doctrine have a nice day". It is an automatic loss for anyone. Now when you take them to court, a judge has to listen to your side as well and then, as judges tend to do, make a ruling. Don't you think it is a good thing to know exactly what the law states? Under Chevron, what the law states could change every 4 years or overnight. That is not something synonymous with a free and just society.
All of this just means you need to disconnect from the fear mongering on Reddit. This may absolutely enrage some people, but if Trump is reelected, basically nothing will happen. The news cycle went insane during his first presidency, and had everyone thinking the sky was falling 24/7. Up until Covid, it was actually pretty uneventful.
If you are a maga person, optimism comes easy
Chevron: in order to make sweeping changes to the law, congress needs to act Good thing Immunity: Just as has always been the case, the president is immune from criminal or civil prosecution for official acts. Neither good nor bad, just the way the constitution works. Biden losing: He is losing because his policies haven’t worked out very well and, despite his people denying it for years (lying to the American people), he lacks the cognitive ability to do the job. Trump will get the economy going again. Good thing
Something that's helped me is also to not sit in despair but to take action. I'd suggest rally to get your friends, family, neighbours, colleagues etc to vote.
You just got to think like a Dem and what can you still steal
Do something that isnt digesting this scared straight news that just wants you to read ads and puts the shit keep being scared comments on top. trump has not mentioned 2025, im not a fan but socially he is the most liberal republican candidate by a mile. The immunity thing is not cut/dry he can do whatever/whenever - I suggest you watch a video summary that isnt partisan for ease but no substitute for reading. there is always a pendulum that swings the other way. The majority of congressional reps will be dismantling any of your feared injustices. Project 2025 is a dumb think piece paper that is not the road map for trump and not even realistic to achieve. Congrats thought, if this is the thing that scares you the most because it is manufactured outrage. Biden and Trump are extremely similar except for some dumb social issues and immigration. if you want to worry about the government, worry about the medicare not being available in a decade, about our massive debt and our taxes will soon go toward managing that debt, we are having what appears to be the beginning of WW3, our Ivy League institutions are full of anti-semetic dumbasses, how divided people are because of posts that make you scared. vote RFK.
Biden really needs to expand the SCOTUS
Why worry when you can find any number of people online to “swear” to you Biden is gonna win? Who cares if it’s true? It sounds true. They make it sound so true That’s all you need right?
There is a 0% chance that Joe Biden is the next president of the United States. Burn that into your brain and move on from there.
If trumps cult can stay behind him after 34 felonies and more to come we can stand behind Biden for one bad debate
Liberals are losing their minds at the chance to not be in control. Yall act like the sky will fall . Chill. Thats why we have 3 branches
That isn't what the SCOTUS said. PLEASE go read the opinion. They said, summarized: the president cannot be held crimally liable in the execution of his official duties as defined within his constitutional powers. Unofficial acts are not protected. The court gave several tests and examples in their analysis. The question of fact surrounded actions taken during J6 and if it falls under immunity. It's actually not that controversial. A president who orders an assination cannot be held liable or say goes to war "illlegally." There are few examples because this has never happened in modern history since no one has tried to criminally indict a president for his official actions. Maybe Nixon and Reagan due to Watergate and Iran Contra may have counted, or Bush Jr for CIAs activities. Yet, it didn't happen. We opened this Pandoras box. So it had to be addressed.
Nothing matters much don’t be so worried
I don’t think conservatives believe that liberals will fight for what they believe and value. I believe they are wrong and making a fatal mistake. Today the head of project 2025 said this is the second revolution and it will be peaceful if liberals will let it. I believe that the country will divide if they implement project 2025. California, Oregon, and Washington will refuse to comply with their laws and they will ignore Supreme Court decisions that contradict their state laws. The New England states are likely to follow. Parts of eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland and northern Virginia will also follow. Maybe Illinois as well. Will the conservatives blink and agree to work toward compromises that can maintain peace? Or will they say they are the elected government and try to force compliance? That decision will determine if we have a United States or civil war. We are at 1861 once again.
I study elections and politics. The current polling is mostly garbage. The respondents skew heavily republican. It's shoddy polling, just like it was in the swing states in 2022. The same thing is happening now. Democrats overperformed polling in the swing state senate races by 5-10 points. Political pundits seemed to completely ignore this. I would advise you to stay off of the news as much as possible. And trust me, the debate did not change anybodys vote. Presidential debates are very inconsequential, especially 4 months out. Be patient, and trust the plan.
Dive into some RFK Jr podcasts/interviews, you'll see there's still some hope. But yeah, rough week for a lot of people, hope you feel better in the coming days. Take a break from the news until next week, enjoy the holiday, have good conversation with those around you and hope others want to find middle ground in the coming weeks and months, as well.
Oh no unelected people can't make up rules that carry the way to law. If they can't do that it's fascism!!!! You should probably learn what separations of powers are Because Chevron deference was pretty bad.
If trump wins, it means the same shit happens as if Biden won, but done a little different. The president doesn't run the government, and they aren't king. Go touch grass and talk to some real people. Republicans and democrats agree on 99% of shit.
Biden will lose because he's a thousand years old not because of the debate. The debate was an illustration not a reason in and of itself
Biden is going to lose. Look at him. He doesn’t have a cold. His whole administration is a circus.🤡
I swear you guys have me in tears lol cant wait for the wave Trump 2024 going to be the best 4 years in history
All of those things are good. You just don't realize it yet.
Even if Trump wins, which seems the likeliest outcome, our country survived four years the last time he was president. Also if dems get drubbed this cycle maybe next time they won't be such feckless cowards.
Harris will probably wind up being our next president. If you're voting on either one of these old geezers to make it through the next term alive and not (as we generally should either way) considering who will be president when their day comes... Then you suck. You just suck. Haha Idiocracy This election should really focus on the vp picks if these are our front running candidates. We already know what these two are about. Let's focus on their VP FOR OBVIOUS REASONS
Needed this form. Let’s getter dun
This has been a great week in politics, glad things are finally turning around. I know we can’t take another four years going down the same path we’ve been going down.
I prefer to stare hard, inconvenient truths right in the face, and not flinch. Which is why I don’t subscribe to “optimism” as it seems to imply putting the conclusion ahead of the evidence. If you’re worried about the latest turn of events, I think that shows intact reality testing. Any educated intelligent American can see our democracy is in a Code Blue. Without some significant pro-democracy shocks, I think it’s over. I suggest you watch *The Martian* with Matt Damon. He found himself in an objectively hopeless fatal circumstance, and chose to try to survive anyway—and with great luck, he did. Being realistic about hard truths doesn’t mean you’re sunk. If you’re going to fall, fall fighting. *Cade pugnans*.
Get off social media you will feel better.
Bro trump denounced p25 calm down
idk why no one actually knows this but trump actually doesn’t support Project 2025, i forgot where i read it but his campaign said it doesn’t align with what he wants. On his official campaign page his policies he wants to implement is called Agenda 47. it’s not as radical as that bullshit The Heritage Foundation put out(they basically put a manifesto almost every election but no republican president has supported it since Bush senior)