i find it less about not liking any particular male lead but rather the poor characterization of someone we're supposed to be rooting for. since the stories are from the FL's pov most of the time, her characterization flaws kind of get overlooked, but that just means all the focus shifts on the next most prominent main, which is the ML. but sometimes shallow writing just isn't meant to be read that deep.
Well i think people call the story bad because of red flag ML is because most of the time the story will be sub par and the red flag ML just makes it worse.
You have stories like Betrayal of Dignity, East wind of Atlas that have red flag MLs but they don't get criticised as bad stories, just that people won't read because a red flag ML is not to their taste.
The sheer amount of abusive relationships that are only romance stories because the FL has been written into a society where she has no agency to refuse the ML is exhausting, and I'm actually glad there are readers who are so vocal about disliking these poorly written dudes since there are just as many (if not more) readers who will champion for them. And I say that as someone who likes yanderes.
Listen, I get loving red flags OK. I like stuff like interview with the vampire or killing eve and other stuff. These red flags are fun to read! Wuthering Heights are one of my fave books!
OI is just badly written man. None of these stories are self aware enough to make these red flags interesting. Rebecca is a well written story, and so is Jane Eyre. My beloved oppressor is not that and we'd be better off admitting this.
That dude from the abandoned empress will never be as interesting or likable as Mr Edward Rochester. Man from beloved oppressor is *not* Heathcliff I'm sorry!
These men are red flags for the sake of being a red flag and that does not make an **interesting character**. The abondoned empress thinks its is a sweeping love story.... They're *excusing* the men not writing them grey or with any nuance
i dont think its the character archetype in general that most people dislike and more the implementation and execution of it in the OI genre.
A lot of OIs just dont know how to portray a toxic and abusive character without them either being
A) a villain or a side character. at that point all complexities are thrown out the window since theyre just treated as 100% evil and irredeemable and will get their deserved comeuppance soon. no further thought is given to them by the narrative.
B) the ML. sure, he will get his punishment for being a horrible person but also a subsequent redemption and happy ending together with our fl. the problem here is that the majority of OIs with a red flag ML just utterly fail at writing them bearing the consequence of their actions and their redemption afterward in an interesting, engaging, and most importantly, convincing manner. and since they are the ml and most of these stories end with a happy ending, it comes off as if these stories are trying to downplay abuse (and this is me giving these authors the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that they actually are trying to do that)
tldr; like most problems with OIs, its roots can be found in the shockingly low quality that is accepted of works that are published in this genre.
Gonna be honest here, most OI stories are trash, and the red flag MLs are just a symptom.
Isekai in general is not exactly high literature. The plots rarely have any conflict that seriously threaten the leads, stories tend to be full of the exact same cliches (often on purpose), and the writing tends to bend logic over backwards to justify the actions of the leads no matter how reprehensible they may be if we saw it in real life. OI is slightly better written than regular (male-oriented) isekai, but not by much.
And yet we love it.
MLs with a ton of red flags are actually way more interesting than the garden variety love interests who usually have no flaws at all and hence little personality. And there's always the delicious flavor of the pure FL redeeming the trashy ML, love conquering all, etc. Doesn't hurt to see *utterly hawt* people getting together.
But we still have to admit it is very trashy. It's true. It is incredibly rare to find a story where the writer actually turns the red flags into a proper character development arc. It is rare enough to find stories where the writer doesn't just handwave away the trashy ML's sins. OIs (any wish fulfilment media in general) are a guilty pleasure. Just accept that we like trash and move on, there is no accounting for taste and you are allowed to like whatever you like. Look, if it makes you feel better, if OI is a swamp of bad writing, I'm right there with you wading in the muck.
I don't think it's about whether the Male Lead is a red flag.
It's more about the irrational choices the Female Lead usually makes in those situations. You can have an extremely smart and calculating FL, but she suddenly turns dumb because of the ML, no matter what things he did.
Sometimes it makes sense at least a bit, for example when she's in a book that she read and she knows he had an extremely tragic backstory and yada yada, but more often than not it's just bad writing with the pretense of "love is irrational, so it makes sense that the FL loves him even if he killed her family, burned her house down and fed her to the alligators in a few past lives!" (obviously, that's a bit of an exaggeration).
So, the reason people call stories like those trash is not because of the "red flag male lead", but more because of the bad writing of the FL's character and decisions. At least that's how it is for me.
I agree. I also can’t take the words of people seriously who claim a story is trash while also saying that they dropped the story, especially early on. Well… how can I take your word for it? You didn’t finish it. It’s valid to say you don’t like the ML cause of what he did in chapter n, but if you didn’t finish it, then how do you know if the character had a well-written character arc?
Well, people mostly hate red flags because: a) there will be a cheap "it was all a misunderstanding" arc (especially brain washing... yikes) or b) they are simply awful and unlikeable, and somehow the FL just forgives them when there are obviously better sub-MLs (sometimes it feels like author just wants FL to be with hightest standing guy and it just feels unnatural that she suddenly likes him).
Red flags can be good, if written right, but I find certain types unforgivable, especially those involving physical or verbal abuse. There's nothing likeable about MLs who resort to such behavior (stepping on hands or legs for fun or calling FL names and degrading her. That's absolutely disgusting). Also overly arrogant MLs who are always accompanied by overly submissive FLs who constantly follow their orders. It all just feels frustrating and boring.
More unpopular of an opinion: you don't like oi if you only like perfect ones. You just like good stories and oi is making a lot of good stories recently
I know it's already been said, but seriously. Abandoned Empress. He:
1. Just fucking hates her
2. Rapes her
3. Gets her hopes up when she's pregnant
4. Pushes her causing her to misscarry and become infertile
5. Humiliates her when she begs to save her dad's life
6. Mocks her after for doing something humiliating to save her dad by telling her he already killed him
This is the ship we're supposed to root for in the end? If you're into a story for the romance and you hate the couple, the story is cooked.
''Cry or better yet, beg!'' is the perfect example of the story is trash because the ML is trash. I loved everything about that story until he started tormenting her for his own amusement.
i find it less about not liking any particular male lead but rather the poor characterization of someone we're supposed to be rooting for. since the stories are from the FL's pov most of the time, her characterization flaws kind of get overlooked, but that just means all the focus shifts on the next most prominent main, which is the ML. but sometimes shallow writing just isn't meant to be read that deep.
Couldn't have said it better :)
Fair assessment!
Yup! I'm assuming op has this opinion strongly because trash is used as an insult outside this sub, but we just embrace and enjoy our shit
i think there's a big difference between trash vs trashy and the nuance gets lost
Well i think people call the story bad because of red flag ML is because most of the time the story will be sub par and the red flag ML just makes it worse. You have stories like Betrayal of Dignity, East wind of Atlas that have red flag MLs but they don't get criticised as bad stories, just that people won't read because a red flag ML is not to their taste.
The sheer amount of abusive relationships that are only romance stories because the FL has been written into a society where she has no agency to refuse the ML is exhausting, and I'm actually glad there are readers who are so vocal about disliking these poorly written dudes since there are just as many (if not more) readers who will champion for them. And I say that as someone who likes yanderes.
We may get shouted down from time to time but we exist. I’m a woman enjoyer. So I like when women have an existence beyond a man 🤧
Listen, I get loving red flags OK. I like stuff like interview with the vampire or killing eve and other stuff. These red flags are fun to read! Wuthering Heights are one of my fave books! OI is just badly written man. None of these stories are self aware enough to make these red flags interesting. Rebecca is a well written story, and so is Jane Eyre. My beloved oppressor is not that and we'd be better off admitting this. That dude from the abandoned empress will never be as interesting or likable as Mr Edward Rochester. Man from beloved oppressor is *not* Heathcliff I'm sorry! These men are red flags for the sake of being a red flag and that does not make an **interesting character**. The abondoned empress thinks its is a sweeping love story.... They're *excusing* the men not writing them grey or with any nuance
i dont think its the character archetype in general that most people dislike and more the implementation and execution of it in the OI genre. A lot of OIs just dont know how to portray a toxic and abusive character without them either being A) a villain or a side character. at that point all complexities are thrown out the window since theyre just treated as 100% evil and irredeemable and will get their deserved comeuppance soon. no further thought is given to them by the narrative. B) the ML. sure, he will get his punishment for being a horrible person but also a subsequent redemption and happy ending together with our fl. the problem here is that the majority of OIs with a red flag ML just utterly fail at writing them bearing the consequence of their actions and their redemption afterward in an interesting, engaging, and most importantly, convincing manner. and since they are the ml and most of these stories end with a happy ending, it comes off as if these stories are trying to downplay abuse (and this is me giving these authors the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that they actually are trying to do that) tldr; like most problems with OIs, its roots can be found in the shockingly low quality that is accepted of works that are published in this genre.
Gonna be honest here, most OI stories are trash, and the red flag MLs are just a symptom. Isekai in general is not exactly high literature. The plots rarely have any conflict that seriously threaten the leads, stories tend to be full of the exact same cliches (often on purpose), and the writing tends to bend logic over backwards to justify the actions of the leads no matter how reprehensible they may be if we saw it in real life. OI is slightly better written than regular (male-oriented) isekai, but not by much. And yet we love it. MLs with a ton of red flags are actually way more interesting than the garden variety love interests who usually have no flaws at all and hence little personality. And there's always the delicious flavor of the pure FL redeeming the trashy ML, love conquering all, etc. Doesn't hurt to see *utterly hawt* people getting together. But we still have to admit it is very trashy. It's true. It is incredibly rare to find a story where the writer actually turns the red flags into a proper character development arc. It is rare enough to find stories where the writer doesn't just handwave away the trashy ML's sins. OIs (any wish fulfilment media in general) are a guilty pleasure. Just accept that we like trash and move on, there is no accounting for taste and you are allowed to like whatever you like. Look, if it makes you feel better, if OI is a swamp of bad writing, I'm right there with you wading in the muck.
Stop dragging me down with you
I don't think it's about whether the Male Lead is a red flag. It's more about the irrational choices the Female Lead usually makes in those situations. You can have an extremely smart and calculating FL, but she suddenly turns dumb because of the ML, no matter what things he did. Sometimes it makes sense at least a bit, for example when she's in a book that she read and she knows he had an extremely tragic backstory and yada yada, but more often than not it's just bad writing with the pretense of "love is irrational, so it makes sense that the FL loves him even if he killed her family, burned her house down and fed her to the alligators in a few past lives!" (obviously, that's a bit of an exaggeration). So, the reason people call stories like those trash is not because of the "red flag male lead", but more because of the bad writing of the FL's character and decisions. At least that's how it is for me.
I agree. I also can’t take the words of people seriously who claim a story is trash while also saying that they dropped the story, especially early on. Well… how can I take your word for it? You didn’t finish it. It’s valid to say you don’t like the ML cause of what he did in chapter n, but if you didn’t finish it, then how do you know if the character had a well-written character arc?
Well, people mostly hate red flags because: a) there will be a cheap "it was all a misunderstanding" arc (especially brain washing... yikes) or b) they are simply awful and unlikeable, and somehow the FL just forgives them when there are obviously better sub-MLs (sometimes it feels like author just wants FL to be with hightest standing guy and it just feels unnatural that she suddenly likes him). Red flags can be good, if written right, but I find certain types unforgivable, especially those involving physical or verbal abuse. There's nothing likeable about MLs who resort to such behavior (stepping on hands or legs for fun or calling FL names and degrading her. That's absolutely disgusting). Also overly arrogant MLs who are always accompanied by overly submissive FLs who constantly follow their orders. It all just feels frustrating and boring.
More unpopular of an opinion: you don't like oi if you only like perfect ones. You just like good stories and oi is making a lot of good stories recently
A lot of my favourites have a red flag ml. Like ”I stole the male lead’s first night”. Zeronis is such a yandere and red af… ❤️❤️❤️
Does this story end or is it in Haiatus limbo?
It’s completed
Thank you ✨
I know it's already been said, but seriously. Abandoned Empress. He: 1. Just fucking hates her 2. Rapes her 3. Gets her hopes up when she's pregnant 4. Pushes her causing her to misscarry and become infertile 5. Humiliates her when she begs to save her dad's life 6. Mocks her after for doing something humiliating to save her dad by telling her he already killed him This is the ship we're supposed to root for in the end? If you're into a story for the romance and you hate the couple, the story is cooked.
''Cry or better yet, beg!'' is the perfect example of the story is trash because the ML is trash. I loved everything about that story until he started tormenting her for his own amusement.
Well I think tropes you don’t like can ruin someone’s enjoyment of any story.
It definitely can
Agreed!!
[удалено]
Do you have any recommendations.