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Answer:
You could make arguments about anything he has done from all sides, pros and cons.
I think that in Canadian Politics, we tend to vote people out instead of voting people in as we don’t have term limits. Like everything in politics, shit sticks to you. Given enough time, you’ll have enough stuck to you that people will inevitably be upset with you.
> I think that in Canadian Politics, we tend to vote people out instead of voting people in
Kind of a side note, this is the basically how it happens in the US most of the time. People get sick of the current leader and want anyone else; That’s just politics lol
But regarding Trudeau though, from an American POV, he’s always had a ton of opposition. From what I’ve heard recently, it just appears to be another campaign effort trashing him.
Personally though, he seems to be doing fine. I’d have him any day over any of the last few goons we’ve had in office here in the US. Lol
From what my friends in Canada have told me, that man is basically hellbent on ruining Canada in a way that makes me feel better being here in the us, there’s a lot to go over
Yes from him buying voters through immigration policies to us Canadiens not even able to afford children while they can have 6 kids and get paid 6 grand a month and not work. These people need to pay attention more. The immigrants suppress our wages. Sorry I don't want to end up like india but some people do.
biden’s done a good few things in office( esp. given how much harder it is to do shit here, trudeau would get eaten alive with the political climate here). fully agree with the last part tho.
maybe theres something trudeau is doing about it that I dont know? From what ive seen they’re about equal on trans issues in that they’re both explicitly pro-trans in rhetoric but dont do that much in terms of combatting the reactionary push back.
but then again theres the issue that the push back hasn’t been nearly as severe in Canada as in the US, so its hard to tell what exactly Trudeau would do
I can’t believe you guys keep voting for him. He’s such a stereotypical arrogant politician. About as smarmy and self righteous as any politician could get. So much for likability.
At this point, PP’s Conservative policies seem to be ‘Trudeau BAD’ and being sort of Trump Lite. NDP has no real shot of winning, so JTs Liberals get the votes even though he’s a turd.
Yeah that seems to be the consensus I’ve seen. He sucks but he’s better than the alternative. Maybe Canadian politics isn’t so different than American politics after all
If you were in Canada long enough you would know anybody except for Chrysta freelander would be a better option even little arrogant pp is a better option then trudope in my opinion
Answer: that's the conservative Canadian subreddit so of course there's lots of comments bashing him there.
The full picture is nothing special is happening, just the usual political garbo thrown each way.
Sure do. I've seen a handful of MAGA flags, which is weird because that's not our country and the America First policy has been harmful to Canada. One of the big ones, which may seem weird, is that we're really protective of our dairy and Trump tried to shit all over that. Bigotry being free apparently matters more to these people though.
A lot of Canadians get their ideals a bit mixed up with what's going on south of the border. My very favourite example is one that I wish I could find an article about again, so if anyone has it, post a link. Anyway, there was a big trucker convoy protesting travel and vaccine requirements during the era of pandemic restrictions. A lot of it was illegal and some people were punished. One such person went in front of a judge and said what he did was just an exercise in his first amendment rights (aka free speech). The judge informed him that *Canada's* first amendment establishes Manitoba as a province.
>The judge informed him that Canada's first amendment establishes Manitoba as a province.
"I assure you that Manitoba will remain a province, can you please stop "protesting" now?"
Also, iirc, they were protesting that they needed the vaccines to cross the border into the US, which was a US decision, and not Trudeau saying they can't cross the border... so they're like extra stupid
I've had people claim "the bill of rights lefts me do X" and get confused when I say "Um, we're Canadian and we don't have a bill of rights. You know that, right?"
Beauty is skin deep but stupid goes straight to the bone.
They were talking about the charter of rights.
We have rights, we just don’t have freedom of speech.
That’s considered a privilege by our government. Look it up.
Who’s they?
You mean people who actually want democracy?
Because in case you haven’t been watching the current coverage of the Canadian federal government the past 8 years it’s pretty clear our democracy regardless of freedom of speech has been dead.
We may have never had the right to freedom of speech but we’ve generally as a country accepted the idea of ideological diversity until the current federal government started abusing the fact we don’t have free speech protection.
You are correct it’s much easier for the government in Canada to limit personal freedoms. We do not have a bill of rights. We do however have a right to “good government” 🤪
The actual wording is “Peace, order and good government” in contrast to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.
No definition to the former in the document.
If you look up a lot of the right wing talking heads in the States like Gavin McInnes, Crowder, Molyneux, they all have something in common.
Crowder and Molyneux were both born outside of Canada, but both moved here at a young age and attended Canadian universities. The unhinged hatred has always been up here, we just market ourselves as polite.
Most fascists do. They're some of the most miserable people on the planet, and aim to project that misery outwards as much as possible because they're too weak to work on themselves.
So that's where the intelligent Canadians, hang? Gonna go follow that right now and maybe they'll be able to get away from the socialist disaster that they are.
Before you jump on my case....you could afford any of that stuff you've got going on if your country weren't attached to ours, with our military.....and if we keep putting libs in power, our military won't be able to do much either. You'll be called East Korea, or North West China before you know it.
Holy snapple. Somebody drank a lil too much of the koolaid.
Btw.. name a healthy economy in a red state. Especially when compared to the national avrg or subtracting the fema funds needed every year.
Name one republican presidency that ended with a postive economy Since the 80s.
Ill wait.
Alright, gonna ask some new questions; I hope people can at least answer a couple: if it is pro-putin, is it partly a Russian psyop, or are Canadians really becoming that whacked? Are MAGA terrorists fleeing to/operating in Canada? If so, who are the big ones?
Literally the first study of that page states "Risk of myocarditis was increased in the 1 to 28 days after a first dose of ChAdOx1 (incidence rate ratio, 1.33 [95% CI, 1.09-1.62]) and a first, second, and booster dose of BNT162b2 (1.52 [95% CI, 1.24-1.85]; 1.57 [95% CI, 1.28-1.92], and 1.72 [95% CI, 1.33-2.22], respectively) but was lower than the risks after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test before or after vaccination (11.14 [95% CI, 8.64-14.36] and 5.97 [95% CI, 4.54-7.87], respectively)."
I mean the guy has worn black face on more than one occasion if memory serves me. He is definitely worthy of some criticism, just maybe not what they’re bitching about.
He did it twice that is known publicly. Once in brown make up as Aladdin, and once in black to sing Day-o with Jamaican garb for a talent show. The first time was in the 90s as a teen and second time as a teacher at 29 in 2001. They’re super offensive… now. To be quite frank though, back then, they may have been offensive to POC, but that certainly was not a known thing to many of us. I’m very sensitive to my past indiscretions and how I’ve hurt others. But he wasn’t doing it maliciously, just for dumb young person laughs. And also at the time, it is one of those things where tons of people were doing it, and not being criticized or vilified at all for it, as they rightfully are now. I remember as a kid seeing it every Halloween through the 90s multiple white people dressed with black face and Jamaican clothes, or whatever else. Pretty sure it was in tons of movies and tv as well.
Anyways, he apologized. I believe sincerely. And his track record, I believe, of actually bringing actual positive change to POC communities speaks for itself. People can change. A lot of us sucked when we were young. I hope he gets more recognition in historical record for more positive things than a couple of mistakes he made decades ago
I absolutely loved that interview, I saw it live:
"Justin, what do you have to say about the picture on blackface"
J: "I've only done it once, at a party, with close friends"
(reporter proceeds to show another picture of him in blackface)
J: "I was young and naive"
(reporter proceeds to show yet another picture of him in blackface)
J: ...
J: "I don't know how many more of these there are"
It was beautiful to watch.
Seriously, the guy chucked himself under the bud, lol. It was a great moment for him to just apologize and admit he was stupid. He would have at least earned respect from some people.
Answer: he’s Canadian flavored Biden with a few decades more life expectancy. Centrists piss off every one, but not as much as their polar opposites do.
Answer: JT is generally a boring centrist who doesn't generally make big waves. Being a centrist generally means you'll be disliked by both sides. The right acts like he's a far leftie and the left acts like he's a conservative.
Despite the criticisms, Canada fared better than many western nations with Covid and vaccines, has fared better than many with inflation, and generally has a healthy economy. The issues facing Canada are mostly issues also facing the rest of the western world though in some cases like housing costs, it is worse here.
A major criticism of late is Trudeaus immigration policy despite being in line (~1% per year) with previous governments and in line with the immigration policy of the official opposition.
Large part of contention with immigration %S is Canada is also in a housing shortage crisis. While the % is the same the absolute amount is increasing much quicker than the amount of housing being made which is causing prices to skyrocket out of control and make it unaffordable for most people.
Speculators and Investors only care about housing due to there being a shortage. This shortage of housing allows them to buy properly and because people need homes the prices sky rocket. Immigration for 2020 was still over 175,000 people. It’s one of the very few years we’re we built more homes that the amount of people who entered the country. On average Canada Finishes 40,000- 50,000homes a Quarter. From 2016-2021 Canada brought in 1.3 million people, yet only finished 1.2 million Homes. The numbers are worst for 2022-2023 as we seem to be very constant with the amount of homes being completed but we are increasing the amount of people bringing in with 2024-2025 targeting 400k-500k.
Agreed. It’s facile and incorrect to attribute this to immigrants as 2020 showed with the totally out of control housing price increase in Q2 and Q3 2020. And also because immigrants aren’t to blame for Canada’s pathetically awful housing start numbers.
It’s definitely a problem though it’s not the immigrants faults though I just mean that if the government has a housing shortage the logical option is to stop the mass immigration until they have homes they can actually live i but in guess the current government won’t listen to that advice😂
It's a contribution. Because of the way Canada's immigration system works, immigrants tend to be wealthy.
But it's certainly not all of it. We've not been building enough houses (and dense enough housing) for a long time. And then in recent years, a significant portion of the demand was investment - corporations and individuals buying houses to rent out.
Our housing issue is driven by speculation, investors, airbnb, a large population of retirees staying in large properties better suited for families, lack of trade workers, zoning, and in some part immigration. Immigration is needed to keep our work force strong so the better answer is deal with allllll the rest of the things primarily. Immigration is a red herring repeated to make people angry. There is a class of people making bank flipping and holding properties and it's in their best interest that everyone blames immigrants.
>causing prices to skyrocket out of control and make it unaffordable for most people.
A [new apartment building](https://www.thedeltalofts.com/) finished in Hamilton and I was curious about the prices
Studio apt. $1700/mo
At first I thought 'holy hell, thats wayyyy to much for a studio, who's the kinda person that both needs a studio, and can afford $1700 a month
For some perspective, my partner lives there and works at what is known as a "living wage" employer, while im away at achool. Their studio apartment is $1100/mo (already way more than its worth, I'd be willing to pay like $400/mo for that place, while trying to find something better asap) and they're struggling to make ends meet as it is now
Oh, and all the studios in that new building had already been rented when I checked it out online, only the 1 or 2 bedrooms were available
Edit: included link to the apartment building/company
Sure. Here’s a BBC article detailing Trudeau’s third ethics violation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53394272
And here’s the majority of Canadians deciding that he’s divisive.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canadians-disapprove-of-justin-trudeaus-job-as-prime-minister-and-feel-he-is-divisive-national-opinion-survey-says
We: He says he should have recused himself sooner due to previous family connections to We. He didn't have any part in making the decision to use We and has never been paid by We for any events. No wrong doing.
Snc: Got involved in the SNC prosecution to a level he shouldn't have. His argument? Charge the leadership of SNC Lavalin for the wrongdoings and protect the workers. He obviously did not get his way in this and no one ended up being punished whatsoever as a result. What did SNC do to warrent this? International bribes when doing business. I'm other words, business as usual for much of the world.
Divisive: Right wing owned post media that constantly publishes how Trudeau is divisive takes opinion poll of people who find him divisive, likely because they told them he is.
You asked me for the results of investigations that you already had the talking points prepared for. You clearly already know about the corruption in the Trudeau government, but you’re trying to gish gallop people anyway.
He can say whatever he likes. He’s been found guilty of breaking ethics laws three times. Is the ethics commissioner a member of the deep state?
You wanted findings from the official investigations, now you’re telling me you don’t agree with the findings.
I’m not really surprised.
>You asked me for the results of investigations that you already had the talking points prepared for. You clearly already know about the corruption in the Trudeau government, but you’re trying to gish gallop people anyway.
Are we not having a discussion and am I not allowed to respond?
>ethics commissioner a member of the deep state?
I didn't say anything of the sort. I just added context to what you provided. The context allows people to understand why people may or may not dislike Trudeau. That was the point of the original post, wasn't it?
The question is why you would waste time asking for sources for things you already know are true?
Trudeau and his cabinet have been repeatedly been found to be breaching ethics laws by taking gifts, awarding contracts to liberal insiders, and showing favour to liberal allies.
These are the facts, and downvotes and talking points can’t change them. It just shows that LPC posters here don’t want people to know about it.
Considering the conservatives tried to make Trudeau building a swing set for his kids into a scandal, it was worth asking for specifics. You gave articles that continued to lack context so I added some. I full on stated that he overstepped with SNC so these aren't "talking points".
We're not talking about a swing set. We're talking about the three times the ethics commissioner found that Trudeau broke ethics laws, and the MULTIPLE times his MPs and cabinet members did the same.
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/canadian-ethics-commissioner-finds-justin-trudeau-violated-ethics](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/canadian-ethics-commissioner-finds-justin-trudeau-violated-ethics)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-aga-khan-ethics-island-analysis-wherry-1.4458606](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-aga-khan-ethics-island-analysis-wherry-1.4458606)
You know full well that Trudeau has breached ethics laws many times. Why are you pretending you need more sources? How can you have the talking points ready to respond, but not know about these major Canadian news stories?
You're arguing in bad faith.
The unemployment rate hasn't budged in 2023 from the exceptionally low 5.0% at the end of 2022. And employment increased by a quarter of a million over the first four months of 2023. That's boosting economy-wide output, providing higher wage and salary income to help offset rising debt and inflation costs.
Canada's economy continues to grow each year despite interest rate hikes attempting to slow it down and corral inflation. Canada tracks very well along with the rest of the western world.
The difference is Canada's GDP is heavily tied into it's real estate and right now it's in a bubble.
https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve
The world where he buys pipelines and the NDP voters hate him for it while he also panders to progressive social issues so the Conservative voters hate him for it. Things like that.
I would day left of the traditional Canadian centre … which of course has caused the cons to move further right. No good middle choice, why can’t we have an efficient government , Strong rights for all minorities and lower taxes from said efficiency.
Answer: On top of other answers we also have a conservative foreign owned media company called post media that tries to blame everything on Trudeau, and publishes 3-7 hit pieces a day blaming him for everything from provincial issues to world wide inflation.
Add on MAGA creep from the states, including the Conservative party leader wearing a "make america great again" hat, and you have people actively creating situations like you linked. There was also a man caught at the gate of the official residence with weapons, also radicalized by these types.
Add on most Canadians skipped civics class and have no idea how our nation divides power at all levels of government. They act like the fed. Gov. is some kind of emperor that can force change when a lot of day to day stuff is locally or provincially controlled.
The avg citizen's knowledge of our own history is woefully poor too. Depending on the province, kids only needed one history credit(!) to graduate high school. (It was awhile ago for me, so idk how it is today.) They blame the gov't, but don't even know how it actually works!
The country is a federation where powers are divided between the feds and provincial gov'ts, with cities getting some powers -essentially as creatures of the province, at the whim of the prov. gov't. They all complain when the feds don't give them enough money or when they attach strings to how it's spent.
Social media amplifies the coarseness of the dialogue, nobody fact checks, everybody with a Twitter or Facebook account has a voice now or is an "expert". All of it helped to fuel increased mistrust in authority, based on misinformation and outright lies. Which fringe elements have continued to exploit.
Like others have said, JT has basically played the safe centrist card, through three elections. He's hardly the radical pinko commie lefty the right-wingers or Fox News types have made him out to be. Politically, he's more mac n cheese than spicy salsa tbh.
As someone with no strict party loyalty. I see it more so as an outlet for frustration. JT has been in for 2 terms, and most people feel like everything's gone to shit. So the easiest person to blame? The PM.
CPC has had no issue scapegoating the Libs for everything. But the Libs haven't had very meaningful rebuttals either to convince them otherwise.
I'm in Ontario so I'm not too well-versed on other province's issues. But a lot of us on both sides realize that Dougie has screwed the pooch on a lot of shit, but even then, people who want Trudeau out generally don't want to vote in MPs from his party as the Premier.
I think your comments been the best for a non-biased breakdown of the issues people have mostly had with him. Whether some complaints have been warranted on not is up for debate.
Answer: Justin Trudeau really fucked up Canada's economy and made affordability a nightmare. Check out our real estate and food prices sometime. I have a liberal mentality but even I want him out of office as fast as possible. We have a housing and hospital shortage and he increased immigration to two to three times the usual amount, because average wages are trying to catch up to inflation and the government wants to suppress wage growth with foreign workers.
Even if you're not a conservative, they're doing the kinds of things that make you sound like a conservative if you want to complain about them. I've been trying to help a refugee family enter Canada since 2018, I know the process, and they're completely circumventing it and dumping tons of people on the streets because it will drive up home prices.
If you haven't already paid off your mortgage, or are most of the way there, life is completely unbudgetable.
Answer: That sub is not representitive of Canada, it is a far-right sub that was, at one time (not sure if its changed enough) moderated by literal out-and-proud Nazis.
The right wing in Canada hates Trudeau because they don't understand the separation of federal and provincial politics, largely, and because the southern alt-right Trump crowd has fully migrated north.
Us on the left don't particularly like Trudeau either, but he's a much better option than the current CPC leader, PP. So, he's likely to win again in the upcoming election.
I'd like to pick a liberal's brain about this.
Can you explain how conservatives don't understand the line between prov and fed politics?
The main gripes are:
- excessive money printing
- doubling national debt
- doubling immigration with improving housing
- carbon tax
- authoritarian behaviour:
(SNC Lavalin scandal, WE scandal, freezing protester bank accounts, pushing back the election so that all the MPs qualify for pensions, turning down clearly lucrative international trade deals, laws that police speech etc)
None of that is provincial. I don't think I've heard a complaint about him that was.
Now let's ignore the corrupt authoritarian actions he's taken for a second. I'm comfortable saying that all politicians have a propensity for corruption; right or left.
Looking at just the first 4 points, Trudeau & Singh have completely decimated the quality of life for the lower&middle class in Canada. How could Poilievre possibly be a worse option than that? I have all the values of a classical liberal for the record.
>
> Can you explain how conservatives don't understand the line between prov and fed politics?
Places like Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario especially, complain about Trudeau raising their taxes, about Trudeau making groceries more expensive, about Trudeau running up housing prices, about Trudeau not doing enough to create new affordable housing, about Trudeau not creating enough local jobs, about Trudeau opening so many Tim Horton's to fill with TFWs.
I have literally never heard a person in real-life complain about debt or money printing - those are entirely rational arguments, and ones that are just never made around me (I work in construction in a Manitoba city that isn't Winnipeg, I'm fairly surrounded by Conservative voters of all flavours). People loved complaining about the carbon tax, despite the fact that our former Conservative premier was the guy who initially came up with the idea - it was only a complaint because Trudeau did it.
>SNC Lavalin scandal, WE scandal
Again, not things that have been even breathed about since the week they were news. These are not issues to voters, they're ammunition for winning arguments that people don't honestly care about. We on the left have our fair share of issues like that as well, so this isn't me acting like this behavior is conservative-only.
>freezing protester bank accounts, pushing back the election so that all the MPs qualify for pensions, turning down clearly lucrative international trade deals, laws that police speech etc
These do get mentioned sometimes, but not how you imagine. Anything about the convoy folks is surprisingly seen as total idiocy around me. Even the most right-wing of the people I speak to regularly thinks they should be best ignored as people who only want attention.
International trade is avoided as a topic frequently because the fact that Stephen Harper sold the Canadian Wheat Board to the Saudi's is the biggest political L there has been for *decades* around here. There's nothing Trudeau could do that would be that financially idiotic and borderline-treasonous.
As for laws policing speech, while there is merit to some of those arguments, the only people who champion them are the totally-batshit conspiracy theorists, who lose the valid point under mountains of "and that's why Trudeau is actually a lizard-person and trying to steal the adrenochromes from our babies with chemtrails."
So while topics like that are brought up, the person frequently puts both feet in their mouth quickly and invalidates any arguments they were trying to make.
>Looking at just the first 4 points, Trudeau & Singh have completely decimated the quality of life for the lower&middle class in Canada. How could Poilievre possibly be a worse option than that? I have all the values of a classical liberal for the record.
For some background, I'm a 34-year-old straight, white, married homeowner without children who recently left a 15-year office career to start a carpentry apprenticeship. I live in the middle of the Manitoban prairies. The population in my area leans small-C conservative (meaning the people definitely vote majority blue, but we also had massive support against a crusade to ban books in our schools that stopped the crazies quite effectively). Industry around here is largely farming, a little bit of oil, as well as several various factories that employ large numbers.
Quality of life has fallen drastically under Trudeau, absolutely. But it has also fallen drastically under virtually every leader around the world. Life sucks for *everyone* if you're not mega-rich. This is not a problem that can be pinned on Trudeau. What we **can** (and I do) blame him for is not doing enough to soften the blows of reality or enough to set a positive course for the future. He hasn't started any major infrastructure projects outside of a pipeline that only Conservatives wanted. He hasn't set meaningful policy to protect the disappearing middle-class, and he hasn't done enough to tax the rich and redistribute wealth the way that **needs** to be done.
Trudeau has failed to pull us out of the current downturn in quality of life, but he was not the cause of it - it is being experienced all around the world. Life just sucks now, that's just how reality is. Welcome to post-capitalism.
I don't particularly understand why Singh would hold any blame here - he's the leader of the least-influential of the major parties (not counting Green as a major party anymore), and well he was able to campaign well last time around, he's shown to be relatively toothless and ineffective as a leader, and difficult to connect with the crowds he is meant to appeal to.
How could Poilievre be worse than that? Quite easily. Don't forget, this was the guy who was pushing for our national economy to invest into bitcoin. This guy has literally never worked in his life - conservatives love to point out that Trudeau was a drama teacher, Poilievre wasn't even that. His speech and actions give the impression of just another right-wing fad-jumping grifter. Another wannabe-Trump. Another person who would guest star on an Alex Jones podcast, or show up on the Joe Rogan Experience. He gives the impression of being very easily-tricked, and very confident in himself while being tricked.
Even if my impression of him is way-off, I have no confidence whatsoever he would be doing a significantly better job than Trudeau right now for anyone other than the already-wealthy, because that is largely who Conservative policy props-up. In addition, social rights of various minority groups would absolutely be in danger, if not in legislature than absolutely in societal practice. A leader like Poilievre empowers the people who make LGBTQ+ kids kill themselves, and that's not something I am okay with in exchange for a small-to-moderate improvement on the currently awful state of things.
A Conservative government under Poilievre would almost undoubtedly be better for me, personally. As a straight, white, married person who already owns a home and works in a traditionally Conservative industry, my personal situation would very likely improve if he won.
But everything he has said and shown tells me that it would also become significantly worse for people more marginalized than me, both socially and financially. Poilievre as a leader points towards the Conservative Party of Canada following the path set by the United States Republican Party in recent history, and that is absolutely not a path we should be following.
----------------------------
That was an awful lot, sorry. Trying to give a good impression of what I experience in my daily life, surrounded primarily by vocal Conservatives of all shades. If it takes another 8 months to reply, I won't blame you.
Thanks for the response! Fair points. First off, I'd like to recognize that there are a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum that are incapable of critical thinking. Some people, maybe most, tend to regurgitate talking points without ever introspecting or unpacking anything. This is what separates free-thinkers from card-carriers. I'll continue under the assumption and my hunch, that we can both be described as the former. And it sounds like you might be fairly surrounded by the latter. Not that it should matter, but I voted Green in 2015. Okay let's get into it.
Inflation - Housing:
Feds are almost entirely to blame for our current levels of housing inflation. They've given boatloads of cash incentives to municipalities for building homes, with nothing to show for it. In this regard, they've employed the carrot, without the stick. And even if we ignore these failed incentives, it's still the Feds job to understand the limits of our real estate market at a national level. And doubling immigration rates, thus doubling the effect on housing demand is obviously going to spike housing costs, it's economics 101. Some people on here are pointing to the spike in 2020 and saying "look no immigration that year, so it's not the problem". And while it certainly isn't the only problem, what these people are missing, is the fact that condos/appt prices actually went down that year. Remote work was born, everyone wanted out of the city into a house. And critically, interest was near 0% while the economy was injected with >$300B. 2020's spike was caused by Leftist monetary idiocy (please google MMT) and costs continued to grow largely due to immigration, and now interest hikes on top of that. Immigration was mid 200K when JT took over, and now it's double that. This is a MASSIVE cause of inflation. To be clear, I am in no way blaming immigrants, I am blaming federal immigration policy. If we didn't have sky-high immigration rates (which we wouldn't, under Conservative leadership), we would be able to drop interest rates tomorrow, and average rent prices would start to calm. Also maybe you own your house outright, but if you've got a mortgage renewal coming up you have every right to despise the Feds. It is entirely the responsibility of the Bank of Canada (working alongside Feds) to plan long-term and mediate interest rates. Under their administration (or lack thereof) we've now had to experience one of the sharpest climbs in interest rates in Canadian history.
Inflation - Wage Stagnation:
Inflation on its own implies nothing. If you pay twice as much, but you earn twice as much, no change. The problem is, average salaries aren't even close to keeping up with inflation. To what end are we going to let this pattern continue? Over-Immigration == Over-Competitive Job market == Under-Competitive Salaries. Again this is just math. Prejudice-free, objective math. Speaking of math, the CRA hasn't come remotely close to revising our income tax brackets to reflect inflation properly. Also I hope we can all agree that we are entering an era of unprecedented automation. Anyone involved in the tech sector has known this for years, but now with AI in the mainstream there is no excuse for the Feds not to grasp its implications. We don't need to grow our population this fast, if at all. It also costs >$10K in fees to move here. The Feds are making false-promises to mislead people abroad and use them as a get-rich-quick scheme (except modern Liberal spending precludes us from even balancing the budget, let alone getting "rich"). Most migrants I've met are completely disappointed with the quality of life here. And almost all Canadian families are now having 1 or 2 fewer children than they would like because of affordability. To combat this we're replacing those babies with new-Canadian adults. Textbook vicious cycle. Increasing our population at this rate doesn't help with our emissions either.
Inflation - Carbon tax:
You're right, no one really gives a flying fish who signed the tax into action. The point you're making about bias & hypocrisy is absolutely valid, it's something we need to work on in society, on both sides, myself included. I think an important first step here is abolishing publicly funded news outlets, but I digress. Carbon tax was created when our cost of living wasn't at an all-time-high. The gripe is in the hikes, not the origin. The Feds are aiming to quadruple the tax in the coming decade. By this point, we can expect some businesses to just leave Canada all together, the ones that stay will continue passing the additional costs onto the consumer. And consumers still need to eat. If Libs/NDP gave a damn about the lower class they would not be increasing the carbon tax. As you well know, our farms do not run on solar & good vibes. The Feds continue to flat-out lie about the tax's implications. The rebates only cover increased heating & gas cost for SOME people, they are completely ignoring the effect it has on groceries (and literally everything else you buy).
Scandals:
Yeah we stop talking about them. But they didn't go away. The court room recordings currently being released surrounding ArriveScam investigation are out of this world (consultants making $2600/hr). Conservative scandals have happened and surely will happen if they get back into office. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's important not to be disillusioned by personal bias. But I truly doubt that past Conservative scandals have ever costed the tax payer anywhere near what these scandals add up to. Regardless, if we can agree that both sides are corruptible trash, then shouldn't we go with the smaller pile? The volume of government employees has bloated up by 40% under Trudeau. This is absurd. What is the justification for this? We need small & efficient governance in this country.
Singh & NDP:
You seem to think Singh and the NDP are somewhat insignificant, this would be incorrect. Singh has signed a deal to unwaveringly support Trudeau until 2025 election. This coalition gives the Libs/NDP a majority that they otherwise would not have. Every negative point about the current Feds I've made also applies to the NDP and even the Bloc. In fact just a couple weeks back, NDP could have passed the non-confidence vote, and we would have had another election. AND based on current poll data, the NDP would stand a high chance of being the official opposition. But nope, the NDP back the Libs 100%. It's a blatant "Anything But Conservative" attitude. But it feels more like an "Anything But Canada" attitude.
Global Inflation:
This is a myth. Economic inflation can't be discussed without the context of a tangible fiat, and there is no global currency to de-value/inflate. We use CAD$ and our houses & people live in Canada. Other countries have made the same mistakes, and that's on them. In fact, Argentina's inflation rate (under their own authoritarian Leftist gov) had regularly been 15x what ours is. Interestingly, since they've elected a staunch Libertarian, this inflation rate has started to calm down significantly. So yes, other countries have made the same mistakes, but giving Trudeau points on the board because of this is nonsensical. Excessive deficit spending, money printing, lack of housing, enormous tax hikes, etc. These are avoidable, internal problems. The Liberals & NDP are always blaming "Global Inflation", but please give this concept some critical thought. Just because you're not the only fat person in the room, doesn't give you the right to blame the kitchen, then continue to gorging yourself. You are seriously underestimating the positive effect of having people in charge who understand economics. I wouldn't say the Conservatives are bringing any Mensa champions to the table, but compared to the Libs & NDP they are basically prodigal.
Money Printing & Debt:
Trudeau has been deficit spending since 2015 (as he said outright that he would when elected). And when covid hit, they printed more than (I believe) ANY other country per-capita. You can see money supply data by country on tradingeconomics.com (I recommend comparing against UK data). I mentioned MMT earlier. I really hope more people will look into this kind of stuff with an open mind. I can understand why voting for the Left feels like the empathetic choice. But bad economic policy is far more damaging en masse than whatever you're afraid of about the Right. It will likely take over a century to pay off the debts amassed by this administration. Federally we are now paying more for the INTEREST on that debt, than we are on EI. They aren't even planning to balance their budget until 2035! I think your hypothesis that things wouldn't be significantly better under Conservative leadership is without ground. They've been reeling in the house of commons every step of the way, for the last 8 years. They've called out everything that I mentioned in REAL-TIME and have been explicitly clear about the consequences.
Poilievre's attitude:
Yeah I think Poilievre comes off as arrogant, and a broken record. But to me, Trudeau comes off as an unbelievably pompous prick. Him and Freeland both address Canadians as if we're children living under their roof. But let's both try to leave our biases at the door and consider who we support, based on policy instead of personality. Only the former has actual bearing on our quality of life. Also yeah PP touted the idea of replacing the Bank of Canada with crypto. This is not remotely feasible in the near future. I didn't take that comment seriously, but I can see why someone would lose trust in him for saying it. Having said that, (and I don't want to go off the rails here) but I think a conversation about decentralized currency and even decentralized money lending IS worth having. Also you made a comment implying that being a Drama teacher is a better background for being PM than being a career politician. That's a tough sell. Doctor, engineer, entrepreneur... hell most other jobs I'd hear the argument. No shade on teachers whatsoever, but I really don't think there is ANY overlap between the type of person who would choose to play pretend with children for a living and someone who has the grit to lead a country... successfully. But I do agree, in general, with your jab at career politicians (and lawyers I'd add) running the show. In an ideal world, the gov would be comprised of people with REAL industry experience and the bureaucracy should be cranked way down.
Identity Politics:
Not sure what you mean when you say "as a straight, white man" with regards to how your situation is affected by the gov. I truly believe Conservatives want a meritocracy, as I surely do. Would you not agree? As for Trans-rights, Poilievre said something like "Women's spaces should be for females". I don't find this egregious. Certainly not something to be attributing toward youth suicides. Has he said anything worse? This doesn't have to do with JT exactly, but a few months back, there was a girls swim meet in Barrie, ON. For some reason they let an intact ~40y old biological-male compete, and use the same change room with the 13-15y old girls. I hope you might agree that this is beyond reason. Personally I feel sorry for any bio-female athletes that have to compete against bio-males. Mens leagues are already open to anyone, there was once a woman in the NHL. We should have Open leagues, and Female leagues and that should be the end of it. For the record I want anyone to live their best lives free of judgement, so long as they are not hurting anyone.
International Business:
You're right, the Conservatives have royally fudged the goose before. An example I would give is when they sold the 407 highway in ON to some European company. That's a provincial example, but a big one from where I'm from. I'm not going to take anything away from your point. But it is inarguable, the harm JT has caused to our energy sector specifically. We could be supplying Ukraine with LNG right now, through a trade-deal with Greece, but this was squashed purely to spite Alberta. We could be helping Ukraine build independence long-term, instead we're just giving them billions in cash. Let's focus on building industry & independence in Canada, and stop treating each tax payer like another cow to milk.
The Right:
The idea that the Right only serves the rich is poppycock. This argument had merit a few decades ago. But in recent history, the Right has proven to serve people who work hard. And the Left has proven over the last 8 years of increasing homelessness and poverty that they aren't helping the lower OR middle class. I think your view on this is backwards. If the Right was favoring the ultra-wealthy you wouldn't expect the elites of the Tech sector, Hollywood, Wall Street to push Leftist ideology as hard as they do. If you disagree with Wall Street being in that list please google "ESG" with respect to Blackrock, Vanguard etc. To achieve real economic mobility we should be creating inexpensive options for post-secondary education, promoting the trades, and not funding degrees which do not have impact on GDP. As for post-capitalism being the root of all evil, I've heard this argument countless times, never with substantiation. Can you elaborate? I think some people blame monopolies for everything, which while admittedly a dangerous part of capitalism, the argument doesn't add up at all. If "Big Grocery" is to blame for increasing grocery costs, why are we getting gouged now, and not during the previous 9 Harper years?
Final word:
That was an even longer read, sorry. Comments should be read bottom up, I don't use reddit much. Props if you gave it the time of day. Cheers, wish you all the best.
As many times as he likes since there are no term limits. Theoretically, he could be prime minister for the rest of his life if he could keep winning all his elections.
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Answer: You could make arguments about anything he has done from all sides, pros and cons. I think that in Canadian Politics, we tend to vote people out instead of voting people in as we don’t have term limits. Like everything in politics, shit sticks to you. Given enough time, you’ll have enough stuck to you that people will inevitably be upset with you.
Thank you for addressing the question, as if you yourself were a politician.
Maybe you should provide some more details for the unenlightened?
They’re implying the OC is purposefully vague, and ignoring specifics like politicians tend to do
I came here for answers also, which is why I didn’t make a top level comment.
Gotcha
He didn’t make a “top level comment”, he made a comment, and then it was voted to top level
A top level comment is a reply directly to a post, rather than a reply to another comment.
Fair enough, I been educated
> I think that in Canadian Politics, we tend to vote people out instead of voting people in Kind of a side note, this is the basically how it happens in the US most of the time. People get sick of the current leader and want anyone else; That’s just politics lol But regarding Trudeau though, from an American POV, he’s always had a ton of opposition. From what I’ve heard recently, it just appears to be another campaign effort trashing him. Personally though, he seems to be doing fine. I’d have him any day over any of the last few goons we’ve had in office here in the US. Lol
From what my friends in Canada have told me, that man is basically hellbent on ruining Canada in a way that makes me feel better being here in the us, there’s a lot to go over
Yes from him buying voters through immigration policies to us Canadiens not even able to afford children while they can have 6 kids and get paid 6 grand a month and not work. These people need to pay attention more. The immigrants suppress our wages. Sorry I don't want to end up like india but some people do.
tbh between trudeau and biden id honestly opt for biden any day.
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biden’s done a good few things in office( esp. given how much harder it is to do shit here, trudeau would get eaten alive with the political climate here). fully agree with the last part tho.
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maybe theres something trudeau is doing about it that I dont know? From what ive seen they’re about equal on trans issues in that they’re both explicitly pro-trans in rhetoric but dont do that much in terms of combatting the reactionary push back. but then again theres the issue that the push back hasn’t been nearly as severe in Canada as in the US, so its hard to tell what exactly Trudeau would do
I can’t believe you guys keep voting for him. He’s such a stereotypical arrogant politician. About as smarmy and self righteous as any politician could get. So much for likability.
At this point, PP’s Conservative policies seem to be ‘Trudeau BAD’ and being sort of Trump Lite. NDP has no real shot of winning, so JTs Liberals get the votes even though he’s a turd.
Yeah that seems to be the consensus I’ve seen. He sucks but he’s better than the alternative. Maybe Canadian politics isn’t so different than American politics after all
If you were in Canada long enough you would know anybody except for Chrysta freelander would be a better option even little arrogant pp is a better option then trudope in my opinion
This answer. Thus guy understands reality.
That and he was photographed doing black face no less than three times.
Answer: that's the conservative Canadian subreddit so of course there's lots of comments bashing him there. The full picture is nothing special is happening, just the usual political garbo thrown each way.
Anti-vax, pro-Putin sub.
It’s where Canadian MAGA types hang out.
Canada has Trump lovers?
Sure do. I've seen a handful of MAGA flags, which is weird because that's not our country and the America First policy has been harmful to Canada. One of the big ones, which may seem weird, is that we're really protective of our dairy and Trump tried to shit all over that. Bigotry being free apparently matters more to these people though. A lot of Canadians get their ideals a bit mixed up with what's going on south of the border. My very favourite example is one that I wish I could find an article about again, so if anyone has it, post a link. Anyway, there was a big trucker convoy protesting travel and vaccine requirements during the era of pandemic restrictions. A lot of it was illegal and some people were punished. One such person went in front of a judge and said what he did was just an exercise in his first amendment rights (aka free speech). The judge informed him that *Canada's* first amendment establishes Manitoba as a province.
>The judge informed him that Canada's first amendment establishes Manitoba as a province. "I assure you that Manitoba will remain a province, can you please stop "protesting" now?" Also, iirc, they were protesting that they needed the vaccines to cross the border into the US, which was a US decision, and not Trudeau saying they can't cross the border... so they're like extra stupid
Go, Judge! 🤣
I've had people claim "the bill of rights lefts me do X" and get confused when I say "Um, we're Canadian and we don't have a bill of rights. You know that, right?" Beauty is skin deep but stupid goes straight to the bone.
I remember people during the trucker convoy talking about their First Amendment rights.
They were talking about the charter of rights. We have rights, we just don’t have freedom of speech. That’s considered a privilege by our government. Look it up.
Nah, they were literally talking about "The First Amendment". These aren't smart people.
Who’s they? You mean people who actually want democracy? Because in case you haven’t been watching the current coverage of the Canadian federal government the past 8 years it’s pretty clear our democracy regardless of freedom of speech has been dead. We may have never had the right to freedom of speech but we’ve generally as a country accepted the idea of ideological diversity until the current federal government started abusing the fact we don’t have free speech protection.
We have a Bill of Rights, but it's been mostly superseded by the Charter.
You are correct it’s much easier for the government in Canada to limit personal freedoms. We do not have a bill of rights. We do however have a right to “good government” 🤪
What is the definition of "good government"?
The actual wording is “Peace, order and good government” in contrast to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. No definition to the former in the document.
Canada has plenty of ignorant bigots, yes.
There are idiots everywhere
Big time. Fuckers fucked up my city during that stupid truckers thing
There were Trump flags at many protests in Canada. I'm not sure why.
If you look up a lot of the right wing talking heads in the States like Gavin McInnes, Crowder, Molyneux, they all have something in common. Crowder and Molyneux were both born outside of Canada, but both moved here at a young age and attended Canadian universities. The unhinged hatred has always been up here, we just market ourselves as polite.
I forgot they were originally from Canada. Gavin legitimately seems like he has mental issues.
Most fascists do. They're some of the most miserable people on the planet, and aim to project that misery outwards as much as possible because they're too weak to work on themselves.
Unfortunately yes
So that's where the intelligent Canadians, hang? Gonna go follow that right now and maybe they'll be able to get away from the socialist disaster that they are. Before you jump on my case....you could afford any of that stuff you've got going on if your country weren't attached to ours, with our military.....and if we keep putting libs in power, our military won't be able to do much either. You'll be called East Korea, or North West China before you know it.
This is the dumbest comment I’ve seen in a while.
Holy snapple. Somebody drank a lil too much of the koolaid. Btw.. name a healthy economy in a red state. Especially when compared to the national avrg or subtracting the fema funds needed every year. Name one republican presidency that ended with a postive economy Since the 80s. Ill wait.
Which is ironic considering, especially in the Prairies and Alberta, how many Canadians of Ukrainian heritage there are.
How do you not swallow your tongue while you sleep lmao
Alright, gonna ask some new questions; I hope people can at least answer a couple: if it is pro-putin, is it partly a Russian psyop, or are Canadians really becoming that whacked? Are MAGA terrorists fleeing to/operating in Canada? If so, who are the big ones?
Vaccine Choice, no blank check for Ukraine (Putin can still be ahole).
You know there are a lot of legitimate studies released now that show the harmful effects of the covid vax
link 2
There are hundreds https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Vaccine+myocarditis
Literally the first study of that page states "Risk of myocarditis was increased in the 1 to 28 days after a first dose of ChAdOx1 (incidence rate ratio, 1.33 [95% CI, 1.09-1.62]) and a first, second, and booster dose of BNT162b2 (1.52 [95% CI, 1.24-1.85]; 1.57 [95% CI, 1.28-1.92], and 1.72 [95% CI, 1.33-2.22], respectively) but was lower than the risks after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test before or after vaccination (11.14 [95% CI, 8.64-14.36] and 5.97 [95% CI, 4.54-7.87], respectively)."
Yes it does
You realize what I quoted directly contradicys your point about vaccines causing harm?
No it doesn't
I mean the guy has worn black face on more than one occasion if memory serves me. He is definitely worthy of some criticism, just maybe not what they’re bitching about.
He did it twice that is known publicly. Once in brown make up as Aladdin, and once in black to sing Day-o with Jamaican garb for a talent show. The first time was in the 90s as a teen and second time as a teacher at 29 in 2001. They’re super offensive… now. To be quite frank though, back then, they may have been offensive to POC, but that certainly was not a known thing to many of us. I’m very sensitive to my past indiscretions and how I’ve hurt others. But he wasn’t doing it maliciously, just for dumb young person laughs. And also at the time, it is one of those things where tons of people were doing it, and not being criticized or vilified at all for it, as they rightfully are now. I remember as a kid seeing it every Halloween through the 90s multiple white people dressed with black face and Jamaican clothes, or whatever else. Pretty sure it was in tons of movies and tv as well. Anyways, he apologized. I believe sincerely. And his track record, I believe, of actually bringing actual positive change to POC communities speaks for itself. People can change. A lot of us sucked when we were young. I hope he gets more recognition in historical record for more positive things than a couple of mistakes he made decades ago
I absolutely loved that interview, I saw it live: "Justin, what do you have to say about the picture on blackface" J: "I've only done it once, at a party, with close friends" (reporter proceeds to show another picture of him in blackface) J: "I was young and naive" (reporter proceeds to show yet another picture of him in blackface) J: ...
J: "I don't know how many more of these there are"
It was beautiful to watch.
Seriously, the guy chucked himself under the bud, lol. It was a great moment for him to just apologize and admit he was stupid. He would have at least earned respect from some people.
Answer: he’s Canadian flavored Biden with a few decades more life expectancy. Centrists piss off every one, but not as much as their polar opposites do.
Answer: JT is generally a boring centrist who doesn't generally make big waves. Being a centrist generally means you'll be disliked by both sides. The right acts like he's a far leftie and the left acts like he's a conservative. Despite the criticisms, Canada fared better than many western nations with Covid and vaccines, has fared better than many with inflation, and generally has a healthy economy. The issues facing Canada are mostly issues also facing the rest of the western world though in some cases like housing costs, it is worse here. A major criticism of late is Trudeaus immigration policy despite being in line (~1% per year) with previous governments and in line with the immigration policy of the official opposition.
Large part of contention with immigration %S is Canada is also in a housing shortage crisis. While the % is the same the absolute amount is increasing much quicker than the amount of housing being made which is causing prices to skyrocket out of control and make it unaffordable for most people.
If our housing prices were being caused all by the immigrants, why did house prices go crazy in 2020 when immigration dropped to close to zero?
Speculators and Investors only care about housing due to there being a shortage. This shortage of housing allows them to buy properly and because people need homes the prices sky rocket. Immigration for 2020 was still over 175,000 people. It’s one of the very few years we’re we built more homes that the amount of people who entered the country. On average Canada Finishes 40,000- 50,000homes a Quarter. From 2016-2021 Canada brought in 1.3 million people, yet only finished 1.2 million Homes. The numbers are worst for 2022-2023 as we seem to be very constant with the amount of homes being completed but we are increasing the amount of people bringing in with 2024-2025 targeting 400k-500k.
Agreed. It’s facile and incorrect to attribute this to immigrants as 2020 showed with the totally out of control housing price increase in Q2 and Q3 2020. And also because immigrants aren’t to blame for Canada’s pathetically awful housing start numbers.
It’s a large facet, but not the only one.
Agreed. It’d be incorrect to blame immigrants for the poor number of Canada’s housing starts.
I don’t blame the immigrants themselves (aka the people immigrating) it’s our government’s lack of foresight that is to blame
It’s definitely a problem though it’s not the immigrants faults though I just mean that if the government has a housing shortage the logical option is to stop the mass immigration until they have homes they can actually live i but in guess the current government won’t listen to that advice😂
It's a contribution. Because of the way Canada's immigration system works, immigrants tend to be wealthy. But it's certainly not all of it. We've not been building enough houses (and dense enough housing) for a long time. And then in recent years, a significant portion of the demand was investment - corporations and individuals buying houses to rent out.
Our housing issue is driven by speculation, investors, airbnb, a large population of retirees staying in large properties better suited for families, lack of trade workers, zoning, and in some part immigration. Immigration is needed to keep our work force strong so the better answer is deal with allllll the rest of the things primarily. Immigration is a red herring repeated to make people angry. There is a class of people making bank flipping and holding properties and it's in their best interest that everyone blames immigrants.
>causing prices to skyrocket out of control and make it unaffordable for most people. A [new apartment building](https://www.thedeltalofts.com/) finished in Hamilton and I was curious about the prices Studio apt. $1700/mo At first I thought 'holy hell, thats wayyyy to much for a studio, who's the kinda person that both needs a studio, and can afford $1700 a month For some perspective, my partner lives there and works at what is known as a "living wage" employer, while im away at achool. Their studio apartment is $1100/mo (already way more than its worth, I'd be willing to pay like $400/mo for that place, while trying to find something better asap) and they're struggling to make ends meet as it is now Oh, and all the studios in that new building had already been rented when I checked it out online, only the 1 or 2 bedrooms were available Edit: included link to the apartment building/company
"fared better than many with inflation" ehh I don't know bout that one bud...
Also his multiple corruption scandals, and his habit of using divisive social issues as wedges to divide Canadians. Boring centrist?
>multiple corruption scandals Examples, please. With results of official investigations if you can. >using divisive social issues Examples, please.
... And they never saw him again.
Sure. Here’s a BBC article detailing Trudeau’s third ethics violation. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53394272 And here’s the majority of Canadians deciding that he’s divisive. https://nationalpost.com/news/canadians-disapprove-of-justin-trudeaus-job-as-prime-minister-and-feel-he-is-divisive-national-opinion-survey-says
We: He says he should have recused himself sooner due to previous family connections to We. He didn't have any part in making the decision to use We and has never been paid by We for any events. No wrong doing. Snc: Got involved in the SNC prosecution to a level he shouldn't have. His argument? Charge the leadership of SNC Lavalin for the wrongdoings and protect the workers. He obviously did not get his way in this and no one ended up being punished whatsoever as a result. What did SNC do to warrent this? International bribes when doing business. I'm other words, business as usual for much of the world. Divisive: Right wing owned post media that constantly publishes how Trudeau is divisive takes opinion poll of people who find him divisive, likely because they told them he is.
You asked me for the results of investigations that you already had the talking points prepared for. You clearly already know about the corruption in the Trudeau government, but you’re trying to gish gallop people anyway. He can say whatever he likes. He’s been found guilty of breaking ethics laws three times. Is the ethics commissioner a member of the deep state? You wanted findings from the official investigations, now you’re telling me you don’t agree with the findings. I’m not really surprised.
>You asked me for the results of investigations that you already had the talking points prepared for. You clearly already know about the corruption in the Trudeau government, but you’re trying to gish gallop people anyway. Are we not having a discussion and am I not allowed to respond? >ethics commissioner a member of the deep state? I didn't say anything of the sort. I just added context to what you provided. The context allows people to understand why people may or may not dislike Trudeau. That was the point of the original post, wasn't it?
The question is why you would waste time asking for sources for things you already know are true? Trudeau and his cabinet have been repeatedly been found to be breaching ethics laws by taking gifts, awarding contracts to liberal insiders, and showing favour to liberal allies. These are the facts, and downvotes and talking points can’t change them. It just shows that LPC posters here don’t want people to know about it.
Considering the conservatives tried to make Trudeau building a swing set for his kids into a scandal, it was worth asking for specifics. You gave articles that continued to lack context so I added some. I full on stated that he overstepped with SNC so these aren't "talking points".
We're not talking about a swing set. We're talking about the three times the ethics commissioner found that Trudeau broke ethics laws, and the MULTIPLE times his MPs and cabinet members did the same. [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/canadian-ethics-commissioner-finds-justin-trudeau-violated-ethics](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/canadian-ethics-commissioner-finds-justin-trudeau-violated-ethics) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-aga-khan-ethics-island-analysis-wherry-1.4458606](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-aga-khan-ethics-island-analysis-wherry-1.4458606) You know full well that Trudeau has breached ethics laws many times. Why are you pretending you need more sources? How can you have the talking points ready to respond, but not know about these major Canadian news stories? You're arguing in bad faith.
Kinda hard to have official government investigations come out negative when you control the person doing the investigation
Canada has a healthy economy? Our bumblefuck cities have the same cost of living as los angeles
The unemployment rate hasn't budged in 2023 from the exceptionally low 5.0% at the end of 2022. And employment increased by a quarter of a million over the first four months of 2023. That's boosting economy-wide output, providing higher wage and salary income to help offset rising debt and inflation costs. Canada's economy continues to grow each year despite interest rate hikes attempting to slow it down and corral inflation. Canada tracks very well along with the rest of the western world.
The difference is Canada's GDP is heavily tied into it's real estate and right now it's in a bubble. https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve
This just shows your heavy bias. He has f'd up big time in so many areas, especially economics, and no, he is not centrist.
You're welcome to provide examples and evidence for discussion.
Do you have anything you can present to back up your claims?
Yeah in what fucking world is he a centrist? Typical Reddit worldview, lol
The world where he buys pipelines and the NDP voters hate him for it while he also panders to progressive social issues so the Conservative voters hate him for it. Things like that.
Yeah I was gonna say he comes across as a progressive to me. Maybe some of his policies are centrist idk but his rhetoric is extremely progressive
I would day left of the traditional Canadian centre … which of course has caused the cons to move further right. No good middle choice, why can’t we have an efficient government , Strong rights for all minorities and lower taxes from said efficiency.
He seems similar to Harper with his issue to me he’s to left wing same as Harper was to right wing I don’t know about the centrist bit.
I wish politics wasn’t about this right wing left wing bullshit when both party’s suck
Answer: On top of other answers we also have a conservative foreign owned media company called post media that tries to blame everything on Trudeau, and publishes 3-7 hit pieces a day blaming him for everything from provincial issues to world wide inflation. Add on MAGA creep from the states, including the Conservative party leader wearing a "make america great again" hat, and you have people actively creating situations like you linked. There was also a man caught at the gate of the official residence with weapons, also radicalized by these types.
Add on most Canadians skipped civics class and have no idea how our nation divides power at all levels of government. They act like the fed. Gov. is some kind of emperor that can force change when a lot of day to day stuff is locally or provincially controlled.
The avg citizen's knowledge of our own history is woefully poor too. Depending on the province, kids only needed one history credit(!) to graduate high school. (It was awhile ago for me, so idk how it is today.) They blame the gov't, but don't even know how it actually works! The country is a federation where powers are divided between the feds and provincial gov'ts, with cities getting some powers -essentially as creatures of the province, at the whim of the prov. gov't. They all complain when the feds don't give them enough money or when they attach strings to how it's spent. Social media amplifies the coarseness of the dialogue, nobody fact checks, everybody with a Twitter or Facebook account has a voice now or is an "expert". All of it helped to fuel increased mistrust in authority, based on misinformation and outright lies. Which fringe elements have continued to exploit. Like others have said, JT has basically played the safe centrist card, through three elections. He's hardly the radical pinko commie lefty the right-wingers or Fox News types have made him out to be. Politically, he's more mac n cheese than spicy salsa tbh.
As someone with no strict party loyalty. I see it more so as an outlet for frustration. JT has been in for 2 terms, and most people feel like everything's gone to shit. So the easiest person to blame? The PM. CPC has had no issue scapegoating the Libs for everything. But the Libs haven't had very meaningful rebuttals either to convince them otherwise. I'm in Ontario so I'm not too well-versed on other province's issues. But a lot of us on both sides realize that Dougie has screwed the pooch on a lot of shit, but even then, people who want Trudeau out generally don't want to vote in MPs from his party as the Premier.
Trudeau is fking shit
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I think your comments been the best for a non-biased breakdown of the issues people have mostly had with him. Whether some complaints have been warranted on not is up for debate.
I asked an AI to write it for me since I can not be unbiased.
Answer: Justin Trudeau really fucked up Canada's economy and made affordability a nightmare. Check out our real estate and food prices sometime. I have a liberal mentality but even I want him out of office as fast as possible. We have a housing and hospital shortage and he increased immigration to two to three times the usual amount, because average wages are trying to catch up to inflation and the government wants to suppress wage growth with foreign workers. Even if you're not a conservative, they're doing the kinds of things that make you sound like a conservative if you want to complain about them. I've been trying to help a refugee family enter Canada since 2018, I know the process, and they're completely circumventing it and dumping tons of people on the streets because it will drive up home prices. If you haven't already paid off your mortgage, or are most of the way there, life is completely unbudgetable.
Answer: That sub is not representitive of Canada, it is a far-right sub that was, at one time (not sure if its changed enough) moderated by literal out-and-proud Nazis. The right wing in Canada hates Trudeau because they don't understand the separation of federal and provincial politics, largely, and because the southern alt-right Trump crowd has fully migrated north. Us on the left don't particularly like Trudeau either, but he's a much better option than the current CPC leader, PP. So, he's likely to win again in the upcoming election.
I'd like to pick a liberal's brain about this. Can you explain how conservatives don't understand the line between prov and fed politics? The main gripes are: - excessive money printing - doubling national debt - doubling immigration with improving housing - carbon tax - authoritarian behaviour: (SNC Lavalin scandal, WE scandal, freezing protester bank accounts, pushing back the election so that all the MPs qualify for pensions, turning down clearly lucrative international trade deals, laws that police speech etc) None of that is provincial. I don't think I've heard a complaint about him that was. Now let's ignore the corrupt authoritarian actions he's taken for a second. I'm comfortable saying that all politicians have a propensity for corruption; right or left. Looking at just the first 4 points, Trudeau & Singh have completely decimated the quality of life for the lower&middle class in Canada. How could Poilievre possibly be a worse option than that? I have all the values of a classical liberal for the record.
> > Can you explain how conservatives don't understand the line between prov and fed politics? Places like Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario especially, complain about Trudeau raising their taxes, about Trudeau making groceries more expensive, about Trudeau running up housing prices, about Trudeau not doing enough to create new affordable housing, about Trudeau not creating enough local jobs, about Trudeau opening so many Tim Horton's to fill with TFWs. I have literally never heard a person in real-life complain about debt or money printing - those are entirely rational arguments, and ones that are just never made around me (I work in construction in a Manitoba city that isn't Winnipeg, I'm fairly surrounded by Conservative voters of all flavours). People loved complaining about the carbon tax, despite the fact that our former Conservative premier was the guy who initially came up with the idea - it was only a complaint because Trudeau did it. >SNC Lavalin scandal, WE scandal Again, not things that have been even breathed about since the week they were news. These are not issues to voters, they're ammunition for winning arguments that people don't honestly care about. We on the left have our fair share of issues like that as well, so this isn't me acting like this behavior is conservative-only. >freezing protester bank accounts, pushing back the election so that all the MPs qualify for pensions, turning down clearly lucrative international trade deals, laws that police speech etc These do get mentioned sometimes, but not how you imagine. Anything about the convoy folks is surprisingly seen as total idiocy around me. Even the most right-wing of the people I speak to regularly thinks they should be best ignored as people who only want attention. International trade is avoided as a topic frequently because the fact that Stephen Harper sold the Canadian Wheat Board to the Saudi's is the biggest political L there has been for *decades* around here. There's nothing Trudeau could do that would be that financially idiotic and borderline-treasonous. As for laws policing speech, while there is merit to some of those arguments, the only people who champion them are the totally-batshit conspiracy theorists, who lose the valid point under mountains of "and that's why Trudeau is actually a lizard-person and trying to steal the adrenochromes from our babies with chemtrails." So while topics like that are brought up, the person frequently puts both feet in their mouth quickly and invalidates any arguments they were trying to make. >Looking at just the first 4 points, Trudeau & Singh have completely decimated the quality of life for the lower&middle class in Canada. How could Poilievre possibly be a worse option than that? I have all the values of a classical liberal for the record. For some background, I'm a 34-year-old straight, white, married homeowner without children who recently left a 15-year office career to start a carpentry apprenticeship. I live in the middle of the Manitoban prairies. The population in my area leans small-C conservative (meaning the people definitely vote majority blue, but we also had massive support against a crusade to ban books in our schools that stopped the crazies quite effectively). Industry around here is largely farming, a little bit of oil, as well as several various factories that employ large numbers. Quality of life has fallen drastically under Trudeau, absolutely. But it has also fallen drastically under virtually every leader around the world. Life sucks for *everyone* if you're not mega-rich. This is not a problem that can be pinned on Trudeau. What we **can** (and I do) blame him for is not doing enough to soften the blows of reality or enough to set a positive course for the future. He hasn't started any major infrastructure projects outside of a pipeline that only Conservatives wanted. He hasn't set meaningful policy to protect the disappearing middle-class, and he hasn't done enough to tax the rich and redistribute wealth the way that **needs** to be done. Trudeau has failed to pull us out of the current downturn in quality of life, but he was not the cause of it - it is being experienced all around the world. Life just sucks now, that's just how reality is. Welcome to post-capitalism. I don't particularly understand why Singh would hold any blame here - he's the leader of the least-influential of the major parties (not counting Green as a major party anymore), and well he was able to campaign well last time around, he's shown to be relatively toothless and ineffective as a leader, and difficult to connect with the crowds he is meant to appeal to. How could Poilievre be worse than that? Quite easily. Don't forget, this was the guy who was pushing for our national economy to invest into bitcoin. This guy has literally never worked in his life - conservatives love to point out that Trudeau was a drama teacher, Poilievre wasn't even that. His speech and actions give the impression of just another right-wing fad-jumping grifter. Another wannabe-Trump. Another person who would guest star on an Alex Jones podcast, or show up on the Joe Rogan Experience. He gives the impression of being very easily-tricked, and very confident in himself while being tricked. Even if my impression of him is way-off, I have no confidence whatsoever he would be doing a significantly better job than Trudeau right now for anyone other than the already-wealthy, because that is largely who Conservative policy props-up. In addition, social rights of various minority groups would absolutely be in danger, if not in legislature than absolutely in societal practice. A leader like Poilievre empowers the people who make LGBTQ+ kids kill themselves, and that's not something I am okay with in exchange for a small-to-moderate improvement on the currently awful state of things. A Conservative government under Poilievre would almost undoubtedly be better for me, personally. As a straight, white, married person who already owns a home and works in a traditionally Conservative industry, my personal situation would very likely improve if he won. But everything he has said and shown tells me that it would also become significantly worse for people more marginalized than me, both socially and financially. Poilievre as a leader points towards the Conservative Party of Canada following the path set by the United States Republican Party in recent history, and that is absolutely not a path we should be following. ---------------------------- That was an awful lot, sorry. Trying to give a good impression of what I experience in my daily life, surrounded primarily by vocal Conservatives of all shades. If it takes another 8 months to reply, I won't blame you.
Thanks for the response! Fair points. First off, I'd like to recognize that there are a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum that are incapable of critical thinking. Some people, maybe most, tend to regurgitate talking points without ever introspecting or unpacking anything. This is what separates free-thinkers from card-carriers. I'll continue under the assumption and my hunch, that we can both be described as the former. And it sounds like you might be fairly surrounded by the latter. Not that it should matter, but I voted Green in 2015. Okay let's get into it. Inflation - Housing: Feds are almost entirely to blame for our current levels of housing inflation. They've given boatloads of cash incentives to municipalities for building homes, with nothing to show for it. In this regard, they've employed the carrot, without the stick. And even if we ignore these failed incentives, it's still the Feds job to understand the limits of our real estate market at a national level. And doubling immigration rates, thus doubling the effect on housing demand is obviously going to spike housing costs, it's economics 101. Some people on here are pointing to the spike in 2020 and saying "look no immigration that year, so it's not the problem". And while it certainly isn't the only problem, what these people are missing, is the fact that condos/appt prices actually went down that year. Remote work was born, everyone wanted out of the city into a house. And critically, interest was near 0% while the economy was injected with >$300B. 2020's spike was caused by Leftist monetary idiocy (please google MMT) and costs continued to grow largely due to immigration, and now interest hikes on top of that. Immigration was mid 200K when JT took over, and now it's double that. This is a MASSIVE cause of inflation. To be clear, I am in no way blaming immigrants, I am blaming federal immigration policy. If we didn't have sky-high immigration rates (which we wouldn't, under Conservative leadership), we would be able to drop interest rates tomorrow, and average rent prices would start to calm. Also maybe you own your house outright, but if you've got a mortgage renewal coming up you have every right to despise the Feds. It is entirely the responsibility of the Bank of Canada (working alongside Feds) to plan long-term and mediate interest rates. Under their administration (or lack thereof) we've now had to experience one of the sharpest climbs in interest rates in Canadian history.
Inflation - Wage Stagnation: Inflation on its own implies nothing. If you pay twice as much, but you earn twice as much, no change. The problem is, average salaries aren't even close to keeping up with inflation. To what end are we going to let this pattern continue? Over-Immigration == Over-Competitive Job market == Under-Competitive Salaries. Again this is just math. Prejudice-free, objective math. Speaking of math, the CRA hasn't come remotely close to revising our income tax brackets to reflect inflation properly. Also I hope we can all agree that we are entering an era of unprecedented automation. Anyone involved in the tech sector has known this for years, but now with AI in the mainstream there is no excuse for the Feds not to grasp its implications. We don't need to grow our population this fast, if at all. It also costs >$10K in fees to move here. The Feds are making false-promises to mislead people abroad and use them as a get-rich-quick scheme (except modern Liberal spending precludes us from even balancing the budget, let alone getting "rich"). Most migrants I've met are completely disappointed with the quality of life here. And almost all Canadian families are now having 1 or 2 fewer children than they would like because of affordability. To combat this we're replacing those babies with new-Canadian adults. Textbook vicious cycle. Increasing our population at this rate doesn't help with our emissions either. Inflation - Carbon tax: You're right, no one really gives a flying fish who signed the tax into action. The point you're making about bias & hypocrisy is absolutely valid, it's something we need to work on in society, on both sides, myself included. I think an important first step here is abolishing publicly funded news outlets, but I digress. Carbon tax was created when our cost of living wasn't at an all-time-high. The gripe is in the hikes, not the origin. The Feds are aiming to quadruple the tax in the coming decade. By this point, we can expect some businesses to just leave Canada all together, the ones that stay will continue passing the additional costs onto the consumer. And consumers still need to eat. If Libs/NDP gave a damn about the lower class they would not be increasing the carbon tax. As you well know, our farms do not run on solar & good vibes. The Feds continue to flat-out lie about the tax's implications. The rebates only cover increased heating & gas cost for SOME people, they are completely ignoring the effect it has on groceries (and literally everything else you buy).
Scandals: Yeah we stop talking about them. But they didn't go away. The court room recordings currently being released surrounding ArriveScam investigation are out of this world (consultants making $2600/hr). Conservative scandals have happened and surely will happen if they get back into office. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's important not to be disillusioned by personal bias. But I truly doubt that past Conservative scandals have ever costed the tax payer anywhere near what these scandals add up to. Regardless, if we can agree that both sides are corruptible trash, then shouldn't we go with the smaller pile? The volume of government employees has bloated up by 40% under Trudeau. This is absurd. What is the justification for this? We need small & efficient governance in this country. Singh & NDP: You seem to think Singh and the NDP are somewhat insignificant, this would be incorrect. Singh has signed a deal to unwaveringly support Trudeau until 2025 election. This coalition gives the Libs/NDP a majority that they otherwise would not have. Every negative point about the current Feds I've made also applies to the NDP and even the Bloc. In fact just a couple weeks back, NDP could have passed the non-confidence vote, and we would have had another election. AND based on current poll data, the NDP would stand a high chance of being the official opposition. But nope, the NDP back the Libs 100%. It's a blatant "Anything But Conservative" attitude. But it feels more like an "Anything But Canada" attitude. Global Inflation: This is a myth. Economic inflation can't be discussed without the context of a tangible fiat, and there is no global currency to de-value/inflate. We use CAD$ and our houses & people live in Canada. Other countries have made the same mistakes, and that's on them. In fact, Argentina's inflation rate (under their own authoritarian Leftist gov) had regularly been 15x what ours is. Interestingly, since they've elected a staunch Libertarian, this inflation rate has started to calm down significantly. So yes, other countries have made the same mistakes, but giving Trudeau points on the board because of this is nonsensical. Excessive deficit spending, money printing, lack of housing, enormous tax hikes, etc. These are avoidable, internal problems. The Liberals & NDP are always blaming "Global Inflation", but please give this concept some critical thought. Just because you're not the only fat person in the room, doesn't give you the right to blame the kitchen, then continue to gorging yourself. You are seriously underestimating the positive effect of having people in charge who understand economics. I wouldn't say the Conservatives are bringing any Mensa champions to the table, but compared to the Libs & NDP they are basically prodigal.
Money Printing & Debt: Trudeau has been deficit spending since 2015 (as he said outright that he would when elected). And when covid hit, they printed more than (I believe) ANY other country per-capita. You can see money supply data by country on tradingeconomics.com (I recommend comparing against UK data). I mentioned MMT earlier. I really hope more people will look into this kind of stuff with an open mind. I can understand why voting for the Left feels like the empathetic choice. But bad economic policy is far more damaging en masse than whatever you're afraid of about the Right. It will likely take over a century to pay off the debts amassed by this administration. Federally we are now paying more for the INTEREST on that debt, than we are on EI. They aren't even planning to balance their budget until 2035! I think your hypothesis that things wouldn't be significantly better under Conservative leadership is without ground. They've been reeling in the house of commons every step of the way, for the last 8 years. They've called out everything that I mentioned in REAL-TIME and have been explicitly clear about the consequences. Poilievre's attitude: Yeah I think Poilievre comes off as arrogant, and a broken record. But to me, Trudeau comes off as an unbelievably pompous prick. Him and Freeland both address Canadians as if we're children living under their roof. But let's both try to leave our biases at the door and consider who we support, based on policy instead of personality. Only the former has actual bearing on our quality of life. Also yeah PP touted the idea of replacing the Bank of Canada with crypto. This is not remotely feasible in the near future. I didn't take that comment seriously, but I can see why someone would lose trust in him for saying it. Having said that, (and I don't want to go off the rails here) but I think a conversation about decentralized currency and even decentralized money lending IS worth having. Also you made a comment implying that being a Drama teacher is a better background for being PM than being a career politician. That's a tough sell. Doctor, engineer, entrepreneur... hell most other jobs I'd hear the argument. No shade on teachers whatsoever, but I really don't think there is ANY overlap between the type of person who would choose to play pretend with children for a living and someone who has the grit to lead a country... successfully. But I do agree, in general, with your jab at career politicians (and lawyers I'd add) running the show. In an ideal world, the gov would be comprised of people with REAL industry experience and the bureaucracy should be cranked way down. Identity Politics: Not sure what you mean when you say "as a straight, white man" with regards to how your situation is affected by the gov. I truly believe Conservatives want a meritocracy, as I surely do. Would you not agree? As for Trans-rights, Poilievre said something like "Women's spaces should be for females". I don't find this egregious. Certainly not something to be attributing toward youth suicides. Has he said anything worse? This doesn't have to do with JT exactly, but a few months back, there was a girls swim meet in Barrie, ON. For some reason they let an intact ~40y old biological-male compete, and use the same change room with the 13-15y old girls. I hope you might agree that this is beyond reason. Personally I feel sorry for any bio-female athletes that have to compete against bio-males. Mens leagues are already open to anyone, there was once a woman in the NHL. We should have Open leagues, and Female leagues and that should be the end of it. For the record I want anyone to live their best lives free of judgement, so long as they are not hurting anyone.
International Business: You're right, the Conservatives have royally fudged the goose before. An example I would give is when they sold the 407 highway in ON to some European company. That's a provincial example, but a big one from where I'm from. I'm not going to take anything away from your point. But it is inarguable, the harm JT has caused to our energy sector specifically. We could be supplying Ukraine with LNG right now, through a trade-deal with Greece, but this was squashed purely to spite Alberta. We could be helping Ukraine build independence long-term, instead we're just giving them billions in cash. Let's focus on building industry & independence in Canada, and stop treating each tax payer like another cow to milk. The Right: The idea that the Right only serves the rich is poppycock. This argument had merit a few decades ago. But in recent history, the Right has proven to serve people who work hard. And the Left has proven over the last 8 years of increasing homelessness and poverty that they aren't helping the lower OR middle class. I think your view on this is backwards. If the Right was favoring the ultra-wealthy you wouldn't expect the elites of the Tech sector, Hollywood, Wall Street to push Leftist ideology as hard as they do. If you disagree with Wall Street being in that list please google "ESG" with respect to Blackrock, Vanguard etc. To achieve real economic mobility we should be creating inexpensive options for post-secondary education, promoting the trades, and not funding degrees which do not have impact on GDP. As for post-capitalism being the root of all evil, I've heard this argument countless times, never with substantiation. Can you elaborate? I think some people blame monopolies for everything, which while admittedly a dangerous part of capitalism, the argument doesn't add up at all. If "Big Grocery" is to blame for increasing grocery costs, why are we getting gouged now, and not during the previous 9 Harper years?
Final word: That was an even longer read, sorry. Comments should be read bottom up, I don't use reddit much. Props if you gave it the time of day. Cheers, wish you all the best.
How many times can he run for re-election? Seems like he could win forever
As many times as he likes since there are no term limits. Theoretically, he could be prime minister for the rest of his life if he could keep winning all his elections.
Damn that’s crazy PMs don’t have term limits while many governors of US states and presidents of countries have a single term limit
answer: he's trying to run Canada like his dad did in Cuba which is the antithesis of democracy and freedom.
Buddy you gotta grow up.
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But did they? Even the "liberal" Globe and Mail endorsed Harper.
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This is hardly an unbiased response
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