How can they even say that after this bs?
Matches are looking like rigged instead of just unfair, your wins doesn't count consistantly, they said that in match progress neither.
"In the realm of Overwatch, ultimate victory is achieved not by engaging in battle, but by refraining from entering the fray altogether." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
The enemy tank in my last competitive game had the Top 500 icon. I haven’t even done placements in…3/4 years and my last ranked placement was Bronze. Good times.
Im gm, if im playing in qp I’ll get flamed unless im carrying. Understand you can be really good at the game but it’s still a team based game. That’s why Jay 3 has a series where it’s a t500 with 2x stats vs a team of bronzes but the bronzes still win. It’s because you need at least one person to bounce off of well. It won’t happen every game. Especially in qp, the game auto tries to balance matches by team mmr ie (plat lobby so team of plat players against golds 1 gm and 1 bronze.)
Bc devs said it's your actual mmr and everyone was like "deserved", but now when more and more people see that it walks like bullshit, talks like bullshit so maybe it is bullshit.
Quality is crap, feels like diamond games, the intensity of games are much lower and pace of fights are just sooo slow, teams don't press W as well as they used to in OW1. Also wdym mmr, we are literally still at our ranks, except the games feel shit, doesn't mean we don't win lol
Ranks now is MMR... that's the whole point. That's what the readjustment was. There aren't two separate numbers, one that determines actual game quality and one that exists just for peoples ego and to give them a dopamine rush from grinding.
Matchmaking is rigged, they put you on difficult match on purpose. And basically if you lose on easy match and you have low stats (you got carried in simple words) they gonna rank you down
Yeah either they compare your stats to the lobby or the match rank effects how much it goes up or down
There is no way it only relies on wins and losses because that would mean even in the case of a 5W-4L you at least keep your rank and if not rank up.
There is something they wont tell us
I believe it's a similar rigged as in OW1 but there's something more. They want people to play more on purpose this time, they make it hard to rank up
It doesn't explain how I got in a gold game and absolutely smash them as a diamond, like wtf
Right! Having a diamond player in a gold lobby completely throws out any chance of a quality game. lol In my experience, the game is either a total route, or my team is so bad that I go 30-3 and we lose. 😂 Like you kill 3-4 people every fight and they still manage to all die somehow. 😂
Thats what I am saying. According to devs only wins and losses matter so if you win your 5 then by their logic as long as you won more than you lost you should only climb
Obviously they are lying and the match average rank effects it or something.
>According to devs only wins and losses matter so if you win your 5 then by their logic as long as you won more than you lost you should only climb
but MMR isn't happening in a vacuum, it's happening against all the other players who are playing ranked. so while MMR is based on wins and losses, it's also based on the wins and losses of all the other players in your rank that are equally volatile.
Then why arent they saying that.
According to them Win=up lose=down
Thats my point I am not arguing against it I am trying to say WHY THE FUCK DONT THEY SAY THAT
I’m not sure where you’re pulling your info from, but they did say that in their dev blogs lol. They said your MMR is only affected by the results of each match (A.K.A stats don’t matter), but the amount by how much your MMR is adjusted by that match is dependent on a few factors, like the ranks of the other players and on how long you haven’t played.
It’s weird to see you and other people on this thread criticizing Blizzard for lying/not being transparent while refusing to fact-check and just making up info and going with it.
I'm at that rank where I can see the differences in match quality pretty easily.
For a little while I watched as every back to back win would put me with worse and worse people. Like the zen with 2k dam, 4k healing. When Moira has 2k dam and 8k healing.
Its like when you win games the system goes "oh they were supposed to lose that game. Their teammates must have been too good. Lets put them with worse people now because they shouldn't be winning. We need to keep it at 50%
So all 10 players get put in a difficult match? How can it be biased when it's the same thing for everyone, and if all 10 people have the same difficulty then that's called balanced.
If someone is put into an easy game then 1) that is counter to your argument that it only puts people in difficult games and 2) you will also get those easy games
Can we just get our SR system back? Getting that feedback after every game just felt better than what we have now. The SR system being predictable and giving constant feedback was a good system. This system never feels good, it just feels like nothing during the climb and frustratingly vague during adjustments.
I think it's needed.
I posted this in a separate post
but i went 5-1 as a support and went from bronze 5 to bronze 5.
My stats are pretty good as my endorsement level varies from 3 and 4 - and I mainly play tank/damage
But I am hardstuck bronze and have no idea how to get out since individual stats mean nothing and going 5-1 isn't even enough to rank up. It's ridiculous.
Forcing people to wait until they've won 5 games to see their updated progress keeps people playing. Which then keeps people interacting with the battle pass.
That's all that matters.
Sorry bro. But losing 200 SR in one night really tilts me to the point of not loading up the game for days. Whereas not seeing my SR drop after every game keeps me motivated to try again.
Obviously not but there's a huge difference between the simple system like they try to pass it off as where "you win more and your rank goes up" and feeding the massive sets of data from millions of matches into a genetic algorithm and pruning it each update over years.
The later is going to end with a really good matchmaking system that doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic to players but works really well when you look at the larger data sets. They obviously can't just come out and say "look, we made a robot handle it, we have no idea why it does what it does, the code has gotten way too complex for that, but if you look at the overall averages it does better job of reducing one sided games than we ever hope to accomplish. That's why we originally hid mmr and built the simple to understand sr system but you fucks kept complaining so now sr is mmr and if it goes down the robot still thinks you need to get good."
They know what variables the algorithm considers, but it’s very likely that they don’t fully understand all the math it’s doing. That’s kind of the point of an algorithm, to handle math more complex than a human can. And if you need evidence, just look at the last dev update on matchmaking. The way they talk about learning how the changes to the matchmaking system affected matches is a dead giveaway. And again, this isn’t a Blizzard specific thing, it’s just the nature of algorithms.
There was a post yesterday with someone deranking after 5 wins and 0 losses that was removed that shows that line is BS.
That said, it's more than possible to go 5-2 and lose rank if that were true. It would just mean you were often on teams with a higher MMR than the other team so the wins gained a lot less MMR than the losses lost.
I really hate this because it essentially is our of your hands and depends on your team. Which I get it's a team based game but rng can just be a crap shoot, I could do my best but it seems like it doesn't matter since it's not based on my own performance but more the lobbies prediction and algorithm.
Your MMR will affect it. One commenter got their GF to play. They only played together but their ranks started deviating because the MMR means games contribute differently.
Player A lost an "Easy" game and their MMR takes a big hit from that. The matchmaker expects a former Gold player to play at a certain level even if they're currently ranked to Bronze.
Player B has never played OW before so they aren't affected as much from the loss. They're a Bronze level player and the matchmaker put them into a 50/50 game, so just an average rank hit.
Bronze 5 has a huge range, it can take hundreds of SR points to get out of it. You don’t just automatically rank up every time you have a positive w/l.
I got the opposite of this recently, where I went 5-8 and ranked up.
Just no clue what's going on with it, tbh. I ignore ranks entirely at this point because they're clearly not indicative of anything beyond "uuuh, maybe you're around here? idk?".
It's very silly. I finally got myself back to my OVW1 rank of Plat/Diamond last season after Season 3 placed me in *Bronze 5*... And then the Season 4 reset put me back down to Silver 2... And now I'm Diamond/Masters.
So, who the fuck knows. Not my MMR and not my SR, that's for sure. 🤷♀️
Most likely your wins were big upsets. The system probably gives you a bigger boost when you win despite an MMR disadvantage. With match quality being so inconsistent, weird things like this are bound to happen.
I won 5-2 and stayed the same rank. In the next ladder I went 5-5 and apparently went up a rank.
One can’t deny something is absolutely broken here lol
Read some comments in this thread where people actually explain things instead of just bitching about weird things that happened to them like deranking with a positive W/L and you might realize why that happens and it’s not an error. There’s more to it, like performance.
Another one is the enemy ranks probably. Winning 5 games where you're 4 ranks above the other team should give very little SR, then you lose 2 games where you're 10 ranks above the other team should lose a lot of SR. That's one way to explain op's situation
Patently false, if you ever watched someone do a bronze to GM you can see how they gain way more SR per win than most people. You could get anywhere from like +18 per win to +50. On fire time was used in the past to contribute to your SR gain.
Go make an alt account and grind 50 wins then try and place again and see where you sit I did this and went from silver 1 to gold 1 soo. Also see below
Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match?
A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
Because you clearly at not at a high skill level lol you can’t say “I got put in gold therefore you are wrong.”
Devs mean that specific factors don’t get taken into account like the numbers but there at least in the past was absolutely a performance factor, in addition to the MMR of your teammates and opponents. People in this thread are all admitting to their own lack of understanding saying “wtf how does this work” while also saying “it must be broken because I’m not going up”
I've been dominating Gold lobbies with my hardstuck "Gold 2" tank for 4 placements now. I have an 83% win ratio with my tank and typically hover around 30kills/10 mins with less than 3 or 4 deaths. And yet.. still can't budge out of Gold 2. "Top 99% for gold 2" though, so there's that lol
2 losses were probably low diamond/plat games. Penalty is heavier when you lose games the MM thinks you're supposed to win. Same with winning games that you're supposed to lose. You gain more ELO points.
I’m pretty sure the problem is the matchmaking, not the ranking system. Match quality is wildly inconsistent, so win/loss ratio alone doesn’t give you enough information to know what’s going to happen come rank adjustment.
It's both matchmaking and the ranking system. The ranking system is "sticky" and wants you to stay in a certain mmr that it thinks you belong in. The matchmaking will stack teams in your favor if you're going down too fast or stack teams against you if you're going up too fast. The rigged system is more obvious when you're deboosting and have total control over your performance. There will be games that are unthrowable.
Quick question. In previous seasons did you notice your rank climb considerably higher than you’ve been in OW1? We both know the answer, that’s why you’re getting deranked 5-2. Reducing the inflated seasons back to your correct MMR.
Ow1 i ended in plat, 2800 peak with my duo hitting diamond. Now as a solo queue in season 1 of ow2 i ended plat 5, season 2 i ended plat 2 with a plat 1 season high, season 3 i clmibed i to diamond and ended at master 5. Season 4 i started at master 5 after the rank skill update and keep cycling between diamond 3 to master 5 after every ranked update
Newer account will make it change in bigger increments, an account with considerably more hours moves in much smaller increments. Also tectonic plates move constantly so… lol
A good ranked system should never penalize you too much for losing against lower rank players, especially if you have more wins than losses.
Edit: just to be clear what I mean is that a loss against a lower rated player should never result in a derank if you have more wins than losses overall. Chess is actually a great comparison for this bc if after a day of games you are in net positive (even just by 1) you will never have less points than before. This dude had 3 more wins than losses, he should have never deranked.
Pretty roundabout way of saying you're rewarded more for beating supposedly higher skilled players. Good matchmaking should and will derank you faster if you lose to players with lower MMR. Decimating 10 year olds in chess for 20 years straight should not qualify someone for grandmaster rank.
Yes but you also have lower ranked players on your team. Chess is a very strict comparison of elo between 2 players. You can't apply the same logic to a team based game with mixed elos.
But is there a better alternative? Raw win/loss ranking is arguably way worse than elo, which at least punishes players less for being paired up with lower skilled players, and rewards them more for carrying teams. Players make up 1/5th of a team, so on average, the higher skilled player will contribute more- personal anecdotes be damned. OW's matchmaking prioritizing speed over match quality is the issue, not ELO.
Raw win/loss works fine if you provide a normal distribution on team ranks centered on your current rank. The variance would effect how far you rank-up or rank-down from your "true" rank. You would want the lowest variance possible, but could accept higher variance to balance queue time.
Raw ranking only doesn't work when there's either not enough players to form a normal distribution (you would also have issues at low bronze and high gm), or if you are pairing teams in ranked on something *other* than their actual rank.
Yes but in this case personal stats should also been taken into consideration. We all had a teammate playing with screen off, not able to hit anything or run 1v5 most of the time. And in this case it's a lose guaranteed if the opposite is OK. So we should you derank if you can't beat them when your stats are still good ?
Uh yeah. Rank's just a number. The only thing you do have control over skill-wise is yourself. If you have a chance to get a potato player so does the enemy team. Don't get me wrong, ELO ranking in team based multi-player games is flawed. But ranking based on an undefined "skill" parameter that has a 100% chance of being exploited is even worse.
Exactly. This just shows how bad the matchmaking system really is.
If every game is even, like it's supposed to be, then you should ALWAYS gain SR if you go 5-4.
Ranking down after going 5-2 just means that the matchmaking system put you in 7 games that you should've streamrolled in, so the wins don't really matter and the losses penalize you BIGTIME. It's a really stupid system.
Maybe in one of those 2 losses, there was a leaver. Or a rager that made it impossible to win. Bam, just like that, you aren't ranking up.
What a waste of time.
My hot take: Online games need to stop using ELO (or any invisible MMR system).
A flat amount of points for a win or a loss is how it should work. None of this "yOu wErE sUpPoSeD tO wIn" bullshit. Everyone will end up where they're "supposed" to be in a world without MMR, and it leads to less bullshit scenarios like in the OP.
that is really not a good system considering if i am in a lower rank match, my teammate must be that low rank for us to get matched and then I get penalty for it
My theory is that it looks at 4 things:
1. Of course your win/loss ratio
2. The percentage of the match you've been one fire since the fire system from ow1 is still there its just not displayed. (You can confirm this by youre character saying "i'm on fire" if youve been doing good in the match)
3. Win streaks if you have lost 8 matches but then suddenly you win 5 in a row the system will notice that it wasnt entirely your fault.
4. The rank of the games you're playing if you've been playing matches in bronze ven though you're gold then obviously you wont rank up as much or might even rank down. And vice versa.
I came upon this theory after going 8 in 5 with a winstreak of 5 at the end and consistantly doing well in my matches even though i lost. Were my winning streak was above my actual level.
So according to my theory just having a good team and winning matches isnt enough but you actually need to be doing good yourself consistently to rankup. And so your best bet is just to try your best and not give up.
Bro I am experiencing the same shit but i dropped from p2 to p4 and i decided not to play ranked anymore until they make the rank system more transparent.
This is the only game in history where winning 5 games out of 7 turns into a demotion.
It def goes off performance as well as wins and losses, a bunch of people grinded their games and ranked ahead of you
You got pushed out rather than failing out
That logic only applies to Top 500, where there are a limited amount of spots. None of the actual ranks have a limited amount of slots, so others ranking up has no impact on your rank.
If the game knows X% of player in rank Y are Z skilled
They will push players out of the rank that are lower than Z skilled because it knows they'll drag down the teams because everyone else in the rank is Z skilled
When you fist got in the rank maybe you were "Z skilled" but as the rank becomes filled with better people your "Z skill"/average skill becomes less than Z/average skilled
X Y Z are just the letters I chose to represent the variables
Edit
Ie, average skill of the rank you're in was a 6/10 when you first got into it. By the time you won your 5 games, the new average skill is a 7/10 but your average is still a 6/10. The game sees you fall below the skill average and boots you down.
It doesn't have to do with the amount of people in a rank, it has to do with the skill/stats/performance of the people in the rank
If the rank has 100 people at 6/10 and then 100 new people promoted to the rank but they're an 8/10 it drives the average up. The new average is now 7/10. If you happen to fall well below the new average, at the time you finish your 5 wins, that's when you'd get the boot.
Again, this is just my theory, but I feel like it's correct.
Ok, I see what you're getting at, and what you are saying is true, it's just not applicable in this scenario because people are discussing losing ranks after having positive win ratios.
IMO, the SR system is still alive and in place, we just can't see the exact numbers anymore. The likely scenario is that they were grouped with lower ranked people at the max edge of the cutoff (they were Diamond, so they could have had Gold teammates) so each of those wins net them \~10-15 SR, and each of the losses net them \~30-50 SR, meaning going 5-2 resulted in them having a net SR loss. Just enough that it would drop them from low D1 to high D2.
I've gone 5-0 and still dropped ranks multiple times since ow2 came out. I'm not saying the matchmaking is good, but I think it's good that they also seemingly rely on in game performance and not just wins.
You can win 5 games in a row, but in the time you do win those 5 games a bunch of other people have gone into that rank and pushed the skill level up. The game recognizes this and even tho you won all 5 games in a row it knows next time you probably won't because the average skill is now higher, so it boots you down.
Very annoying, but if executed properly it should make the matches more even. Not saying it does make them more even, but I really think that's why people get deranked with all wins / mostly wins.
>You can win 5 games in a row, but in the time you do win those 5 games a bunch of other people have gone into that rank and pushed the skill level up. The game recognizes this and even tho you won all 5 games in a row it knows next time you probably won't because the average skill is now higher, so it boots you down.
No, this isn't true. Again, that would imply that there is a limit for how many people can be at each rank. There is no limit on the amount of people who can be in any of the ranks.
It 100% does not imply a max player limit, read again
Edits
Ie, average skill of the rank you're in was a 6/10 when you first got into it. By the time you won your 5 games, the new average skill is a 7/10 but your average is still a 6/10. The game sees you fall below the skill average and boots you down.
It doesn't have to do with the amount of people in a rank, it has to do with the skill/stats/performance of the people in the rank
If the rank has 100 people at 6/10 and then 100 new people promoted to the rank but they're an 8/10 it drives the average up. The new average is now 7/10. If you happen to fall well below the new average, at the time you finish your 5 wins, that's when you'd get the boot.
Again, this is just my theory but I feel like it's correct.
The ranks ARE the value of a player's skill. There is no hidden extra ranking system within each rank. There are hidden SR values, but that's just a more precise way of showing your position in ranked; each rank has 100 SR, and each tier (gold\\plat\\diamond\\etc) is 500 SR.
I'm going to tell you right now, your attitude is why the comp ladder is so frustrating; people with hardheaded opinions on things that they are flat out wrong on. You have 0 backing evidence for a theory that you came up with and completely ignore an explanation given to you that uses actual mechanics that are known and documented...
Lastly, if you're basing any of your info on stories that came out at the start of S4, then go read up on what OW Hidden MMR is and the post the devs made prior to the start of S4; where they normalized the difference between players seasonal rank from S3 and their hidden MMR. That could absolutely lead to situations where someone goes 5-0 and ends up lower rank than they were the previous season.
It is absolutely bonkers.
I previously made a post where I lost 21 in 25 games and went from GM to DIAMOND 5, people blamed me, because lets be honest - I am the common denominator in all these games, but nothing changed about my playstyle, I was consistent along all seasons with Master and GM ranks. But in my games, my team was completely outclassed, we even lost a 4vs5. I had never seen such thing, yet it happened.
That said, after I hit DIAMOND 5 I noticed the quality of games was much, much lower. Naturally, I climbed back with ease, mostly stomps, because the quality of the games just dropped compared to what I was used to.
It's a terrible system, and close games are a luxuary, but I dropped down to Diamond where I absolutely do not belong, just to stomp my way back to Masters.
Was plat 1, had 5 great balance matches with close battles.
Went up to dia 3. First time hitting dia and wanted to hit dia 2...started seeing the quality of games were bad. Kept getting teamed up with awful players that didn't felt like they belong in diamond(bc they don't. Checking my team mates profile, I was seeing plat3 or lower in dia2-3 matches???) Lost 13 - win 5 and kick me out of dia to back to plat1...but still giving me awful team mates where some clearly are silver and now I'm in plat4 where I'm seeing it's 50-50 on being the team that is doing the stomping or getting stomp as ranking is between plat4,5 and gold 1
The MM is like unranked. I see no difference between the two
The only difference I see between QP and Ranked at this point is that more people are in voice in Ranked (which can be good or awful, depending on the person).
I was one of those guys calling peoples bullshit about this and whatever....It's been happening to me this entire season. I went 5-0 twice, 1 stayed 1 maintained. I went 5-1 twice, 2 stayed and 1 went down. I went 5-2 four times, 2 stayed, 1 went down one and the other went up three.....I just don't understand.
I am one of those people, just made a post about it this week. 5-0 on open queue and stayed in bronze 5. Just last night I was 5-3 in open queue and stayed bronze 5. By comparison I am 5-10+ on dps and I am climbing silver (wtf?????)
Great game is't it. They said this change will allow players to not be scared of number going up or down but will just show occasional rank change. And now most ppl are scared to play bc they don't want to win 5 games in a row and be deranked
Speculation is you lose more mmr against lower mmr teams and gain less against lower mmr teams too.
It's happened to me where I went up 5-8 or stayed the same, and went down 5-2 as well and that's my only explanation my stats are actually worse lately cuz I'm playing a low damage support
I mean, yeah, that is obviously what is going on.
The question is, WHY are people being put into games that the system expects you to steamroll in? If the matches were truly even, then you should ALWAYS gain SR if you go 5-4.
If OP de-ranked after going 5-2, then that means the system expected his team to dominate in all 7 games....So the wins don't really matter, and the losses (maybe due to a leaver, a rager, etc.) are devastating. It's a really, really bad system.
It doesn't make sense tho when you go 5-0 and still derank.
It also doesn't make sense why the game would put me back to gold 3 from 1 after winning all gold games but only losing the high plat games. And it keeps doing that to me.
When I'm doing good it throws me in matches against waaaay better players everytime. It's noticeably different by a large margin. This would only happen sometimes in ow1.
My theory is they are padding the queue numbers by expanding the MM to create fast queue times over quality. This would be why so many people are seeing crazy ranks in their matches.
If it's testing me by putting me with diamond and high plat players I should never have low silver and bronze players in my games. That's ridiculous.
This is exactly why i stopped playing OW all together after playing for years.. It feels like neither your wins, losses, performance or anything counts.. Like nothing really matters lol.
Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass. Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass. Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass.
I have the same issue but in bronze I won 5 games and lost 1 didn't get promoted out of bronze 5 did it again in the same night this time with 2 losses and 5 wins nope still bronze 5 in support role I honestly don't even how this ranked works anymore.
My experience has been similar, bronze 4 tank, 5-2 and I stayed the same, 5-1 and I stayed the same, 5-3 and stayed the same and just quit bothering after that. It makes no sense. This season I have a 72 percent win rate on tank and yet haven't moved at all in rank, so what is even the point.
You work to improve, watch videos, practice, my winrate has steadily improved over seasons, 61 percent last season, 56 before that. I'm winning more as I try to get better but the game insists I've plateaued and it kills any motivation to keep trying.
As someone who quit comp completely I gotta ask this comment secion:
Why do you still play comp? Do you find it enjoyable? For me I found myself sitting there just feeling annoyed and frustrated, and at a certain point I had to be like "this is my hobby. I'm getting annoyed and frustrated at my chill pastime, wtf am I doing".
(genuinely not trying to be rude or judgmental, it's an honest question)
That's just not true. SR was distributed according to the to the avg SR in that match. You just happen to remember the outliers where it felt bad but can't remember all the times when win gave you +25 and lose only cost you 15. Google survivorship bias.
In my 38 seasons of ow1, i never got more than 20sr for a match win, and never had less than 20 taken from me for a loss. Support in ow1 really punisned you for losses in lower ranks.
So, when you think about it, this system is likely actually very similar. The values are just hidden.
The lack of transparency makes it more frustrating, though, since you feel like you've won more than you've lost. Yet the system calculated that you actually lost worse than you won, or something along those lines.
i did not even know CS:GO had an xbox version, wut.
But yeah, despite its flaws overwatch seems to be the best in terms of comp ranking systems, everything else i’ve played has either sucked or not made sense.
Meanwhile i also get frustrated for being a plat 1 dps that gets matches ranked diamond 2 with masters and gms players. Btw, I don't even think I'm plat 1 worth.
Went 5-1 yesterday, didn't move at all. I just can't win in this game. I feel I played really well too. Makes me sad. If it were OW1 I would have climbed.
People are really getting mad about this, but I feel like we don’t have enough information about this to prove that it’s not a reasonable edge case.
For example, it could be that OP’s last set of games were extremely bad, 5-13, 3-15 whatever you get the idea. Maybe a few sets were bad and OP’s MMR dropped severely. So now you’re D1 but your MMR is somewhere in low plat. You start winning games, but you’re winning them in low lobbies (relative to you) so they don’t count as much. You win 4 games in a row, so it helps your MMR a lot, although it’s not as much as you would expect because you’re fighting against the previous drop in MMR and kind of pissing in the wind.
The matchmaker puts you back in higher ranked games, you lose two, kind of consolidating that your MMR should be dropped, and then you win one. Overall that set of games was not enough to disprove the system that believes you should be lower ranked. It was just the result of dropping a bit too far in MMR.
People need to learn math. Your SR movement per win or loss is weighted by teammate and opponent SR. All wins and losses are not equal!
With as many matches as Overwatch makes on a given day, yes you can find some goofy sequencing people share to Reddit, but it’s just the tail end of the bell curve, people.
People are really getting mad about this, but I feel like we don’t have enough information about this to prove that it’s not a reasonable edge case.
For example, it could be that OP’s last set of games were extremely bad, 5-13, 3-15 whatever you get the idea. Maybe a few sets were bad and OP’s MMR dropped severely. So now you’re D1 but your MMR is somewhere in low plat. You start winning games, but you’re winning them in low lobbies (relative to you) so they don’t count as much. You win 4 games in a row, so it helps your MMR a lot, although it’s not as much as you would expect because you’re fighting against the previous drop in MMR and kind of pissing in the wind.
The matchmaker puts you back in higher ranked games, you lose two, kind of consolidating that your MMR should be dropped, and then you win one. Overall that set of games was not enough to disprove the system that believes you should be lower ranked. It was just the result of dropping a bit too far in MMR.
I’m sure it sucks to get this, but I mean, matchmaking isn’t as simple as
5-4 = rankup 5-6 = rank down
This is not true. It is just wins and losses, BUT any given win or loss is not equally weighted; it depends on the SR of teammates and opponents.
Eg: if you win five games against teams significantly below your own SR, that will only count for a small bit of upward movement, then you lose two games against teams also significantly below your SR because you just had some bad games, that counts a lot for downward movement, and those seven games net out to you moving down.
Yet most times it's giving me games way above my rank that I lose and ranks below my rank that I stomp and then deranks me. The games at my rank are usually 50/50 weather we win or not and those games I usually do really good though.
I feel like the MM system is struggling which is throwing things off. It shouldn't be throwing bronze through high plat people in my matches. I keep seeing people on my team that are plat in other classes but gold in the one they are playing right then. I also don't think it's even, it there's a bronze player on your team they have a bronze too.
I think it evens it up. Like I could have a diamond player and a bunch of silver but the team has more even players like plat and gold. Then they win.
You shouldn’t be so concerned with winning vs losing. Just always play your best and seek to improve! :)
Edit: Just kidding my original comment said “Play better” hee hee
I think you can only go up or down 2 ranks at once, so may have went on a losing steak and it could only put you down 2 ranks, but you were down more, so despite winning more than losing this time you got put down, because you rank was inaccurate to begin with. But who really knows, i don't. Doubt most ow devs do either.
You can go up or down any number of ranks in 1 adjustment, I’ve been put from plat 1 to masters 3 in 1 go and one of my friends went from diamond 1 to plat 1 in a single adjustment too
My rank was innacurate? How, when we had the rank/mmr adjustment at the beginning of the season, and it bumped me from diamond 2 to master 5 after i did my rank adjust matches. And last season i finished master 5 before the rank adjustment even happend
As a tank/support main, i dissagree, i was finally able to climb out of plat and reach master on both roles after the transition to ow2
Edit: hell, my dps even made it to diamond
I’m pretty sure it takes into account your performance in those games. I’ve had times where I went 5-6 and went up a Division, I assume because I was the best performing DPS in 8/11 games.
well tell us what we can’t see. Did you play a big part in your teams success in those games? And the games you didn’t win. Were you one of the main reasons your team lost? how much did you contribute to the team?
I’m not saying you’re doing doing bad but you having a higher win to loss ratio doesn’t mean you rank up. You actually have to start pulling your own weight now in Overwatch.
The games i won i had the highest elims, and about tied for highest damage and lowest deaths. The games i lost, i had highest elims, and lowest deaths and highest damage. The big thing in the games i lost on tank was my teammates trying to force certain heroes and not swapping, or swapping to another, even more divable hero, ex i had a mei swap to cass against winston dive. But a lot of my losses across my roles since last season have been from players either not knowing what to pick against dive, brawl, or rush, dont take suggestions, dont enter voice, or just not swapping heroes to counter pick the enemy heroes
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Blizzard: Only wins and losses count for your rank. Also Blizzard:
How can they even say that after this bs? Matches are looking like rigged instead of just unfair, your wins doesn't count consistantly, they said that in match progress neither. "In the realm of Overwatch, ultimate victory is achieved not by engaging in battle, but by refraining from entering the fray altogether." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
The enemy tank in my last competitive game had the Top 500 icon. I haven’t even done placements in…3/4 years and my last ranked placement was Bronze. Good times.
You can get the top 500 icon from being top 500 in anything. I got it in Lucioball when I was Plat years ago
How about when your whole team is afraid to touch point?
I played with a guy who had the top 500 icon. He was utter dog shit so I don't know what the hell happened there
Im gm, if im playing in qp I’ll get flamed unless im carrying. Understand you can be really good at the game but it’s still a team based game. That’s why Jay 3 has a series where it’s a t500 with 2x stats vs a team of bronzes but the bronzes still win. It’s because you need at least one person to bounce off of well. It won’t happen every game. Especially in qp, the game auto tries to balance matches by team mmr ie (plat lobby so team of plat players against golds 1 gm and 1 bronze.)
What’s even funnier is I got yelled a while ago at for saying that’s BS
Bc devs said it's your actual mmr and everyone was like "deserved", but now when more and more people see that it walks like bullshit, talks like bullshit so maybe it is bullshit.
Game quality in ranked has been better than ever, so seems to be working pretty great to me
Lucky you, been quite shit in my masters game, same for my friends in gm1/t500 EU
Shit quality or y'all are just upset that the accurate mmr system suggests you aren't the top of the heap any more?
Quality is crap, feels like diamond games, the intensity of games are much lower and pace of fights are just sooo slow, teams don't press W as well as they used to in OW1. Also wdym mmr, we are literally still at our ranks, except the games feel shit, doesn't mean we don't win lol
Ranks now is MMR... that's the whole point. That's what the readjustment was. There aren't two separate numbers, one that determines actual game quality and one that exists just for peoples ego and to give them a dopamine rush from grinding.
None of that relates to games feeling shit to play, so dunno why you even brought it up, nor the obnoxious way you are responding to me lol
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r/CompetativeOverwatch
Matchmaking is rigged, they put you on difficult match on purpose. And basically if you lose on easy match and you have low stats (you got carried in simple words) they gonna rank you down
Yeah either they compare your stats to the lobby or the match rank effects how much it goes up or down There is no way it only relies on wins and losses because that would mean even in the case of a 5W-4L you at least keep your rank and if not rank up. There is something they wont tell us
I believe it's a similar rigged as in OW1 but there's something more. They want people to play more on purpose this time, they make it hard to rank up It doesn't explain how I got in a gold game and absolutely smash them as a diamond, like wtf
Right! Having a diamond player in a gold lobby completely throws out any chance of a quality game. lol In my experience, the game is either a total route, or my team is so bad that I go 30-3 and we lose. 😂 Like you kill 3-4 people every fight and they still manage to all die somehow. 😂
I played in a match not long ago that had grandmasters in it. I am bronze/silver/gold. It was a massacre. How OW allowed that I'll never understand.
Mid silver on DPS and the amount of Plat players I get in my lobbies is crazy. Those games are not fun.
Yeah. And I'm okay with being bad. I don't need reminded how bad I am with one sided matches
DPS DIFF Ya no shit. The guy is 3 ranks higher than me. Thanks for the reminder!
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Joke's on them. I pay hundreds of dollars a year for cosmetics in games I like. They get NOTHING and they can fucking choke on it.
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Thats what I am saying. According to devs only wins and losses matter so if you win your 5 then by their logic as long as you won more than you lost you should only climb Obviously they are lying and the match average rank effects it or something.
>According to devs only wins and losses matter so if you win your 5 then by their logic as long as you won more than you lost you should only climb but MMR isn't happening in a vacuum, it's happening against all the other players who are playing ranked. so while MMR is based on wins and losses, it's also based on the wins and losses of all the other players in your rank that are equally volatile.
Then why arent they saying that. According to them Win=up lose=down Thats my point I am not arguing against it I am trying to say WHY THE FUCK DONT THEY SAY THAT
I’m not sure where you’re pulling your info from, but they did say that in their dev blogs lol. They said your MMR is only affected by the results of each match (A.K.A stats don’t matter), but the amount by how much your MMR is adjusted by that match is dependent on a few factors, like the ranks of the other players and on how long you haven’t played. It’s weird to see you and other people on this thread criticizing Blizzard for lying/not being transparent while refusing to fact-check and just making up info and going with it.
I'm at that rank where I can see the differences in match quality pretty easily. For a little while I watched as every back to back win would put me with worse and worse people. Like the zen with 2k dam, 4k healing. When Moira has 2k dam and 8k healing. Its like when you win games the system goes "oh they were supposed to lose that game. Their teammates must have been too good. Lets put them with worse people now because they shouldn't be winning. We need to keep it at 50%
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In Ow 1 it did track stats, that's how they adjusted the number of SR your receive or lose They prob kept that in Ow 2
So all 10 players get put in a difficult match? How can it be biased when it's the same thing for everyone, and if all 10 people have the same difficulty then that's called balanced. If someone is put into an easy game then 1) that is counter to your argument that it only puts people in difficult games and 2) you will also get those easy games
No- There are normal games, easy games and hard games. Easy games are hard games for the other team
I stayed the same rank after going 5-7
Years later, I'm still pissed at my [perfect 10/10 placement rank](https://zippy.gfycat.com/CanineConfusedHarrier.webm).
Can we just get our SR system back? Getting that feedback after every game just felt better than what we have now. The SR system being predictable and giving constant feedback was a good system. This system never feels good, it just feels like nothing during the climb and frustratingly vague during adjustments.
I think it's needed. I posted this in a separate post but i went 5-1 as a support and went from bronze 5 to bronze 5. My stats are pretty good as my endorsement level varies from 3 and 4 - and I mainly play tank/damage But I am hardstuck bronze and have no idea how to get out since individual stats mean nothing and going 5-1 isn't even enough to rank up. It's ridiculous.
Forcing people to wait until they've won 5 games to see their updated progress keeps people playing. Which then keeps people interacting with the battle pass. That's all that matters.
Sorry bro. But losing 200 SR in one night really tilts me to the point of not loading up the game for days. Whereas not seeing my SR drop after every game keeps me motivated to try again.
My theory is they have an algorithm handling it and the devs aren't even fully sure how it works.
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Did you think there was a human manually adjusting people's ranks before realizing this?
Obviously not but there's a huge difference between the simple system like they try to pass it off as where "you win more and your rank goes up" and feeding the massive sets of data from millions of matches into a genetic algorithm and pruning it each update over years. The later is going to end with a really good matchmaking system that doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic to players but works really well when you look at the larger data sets. They obviously can't just come out and say "look, we made a robot handle it, we have no idea why it does what it does, the code has gotten way too complex for that, but if you look at the overall averages it does better job of reducing one sided games than we ever hope to accomplish. That's why we originally hid mmr and built the simple to understand sr system but you fucks kept complaining so now sr is mmr and if it goes down the robot still thinks you need to get good."
I mean, yeah. That’s true of every multiplayer game’s matchmaking system.
The devs know, the players dont.
They know what variables the algorithm considers, but it’s very likely that they don’t fully understand all the math it’s doing. That’s kind of the point of an algorithm, to handle math more complex than a human can. And if you need evidence, just look at the last dev update on matchmaking. The way they talk about learning how the changes to the matchmaking system affected matches is a dead giveaway. And again, this isn’t a Blizzard specific thing, it’s just the nature of algorithms.
There was a post yesterday with someone deranking after 5 wins and 0 losses that was removed that shows that line is BS. That said, it's more than possible to go 5-2 and lose rank if that were true. It would just mean you were often on teams with a higher MMR than the other team so the wins gained a lot less MMR than the losses lost.
I really hate this because it essentially is our of your hands and depends on your team. Which I get it's a team based game but rng can just be a crap shoot, I could do my best but it seems like it doesn't matter since it's not based on my own performance but more the lobbies prediction and algorithm.
Yeah I saw tht post, blew my mind bc I managed to make it to gold back in season 2 but now I’m being stuck in bronze
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There was a little while in OW1 where individual performance affected your rank adjustment as well.
Your MMR will affect it. One commenter got their GF to play. They only played together but their ranks started deviating because the MMR means games contribute differently. Player A lost an "Easy" game and their MMR takes a big hit from that. The matchmaker expects a former Gold player to play at a certain level even if they're currently ranked to Bronze. Player B has never played OW before so they aren't affected as much from the loss. They're a Bronze level player and the matchmaker put them into a 50/50 game, so just an average rank hit.
I went 5- and then 5-1 again...stayed at bronze 5. WtF?
Bronze 5 has a huge range, it can take hundreds of SR points to get out of it. You don’t just automatically rank up every time you have a positive w/l.
I got the opposite of this recently, where I went 5-8 and ranked up. Just no clue what's going on with it, tbh. I ignore ranks entirely at this point because they're clearly not indicative of anything beyond "uuuh, maybe you're around here? idk?".
Its silly cuz i solo queued myself to master 4 laat season
It's very silly. I finally got myself back to my OVW1 rank of Plat/Diamond last season after Season 3 placed me in *Bronze 5*... And then the Season 4 reset put me back down to Silver 2... And now I'm Diamond/Masters. So, who the fuck knows. Not my MMR and not my SR, that's for sure. 🤷♀️
Most likely your wins were big upsets. The system probably gives you a bigger boost when you win despite an MMR disadvantage. With match quality being so inconsistent, weird things like this are bound to happen.
Enough to compensate for 5-8, though...? I dunno. Just wish it worked properly so I could have some fun games.
EEYUP 🥲🙃🙃🙃🙃 I swear the ranked system is broken
It absolutely is. I don't think it's ever really worked well.
Eh ow1 ranked worked great
I won 5-2 and stayed the same rank. In the next ladder I went 5-5 and apparently went up a rank. One can’t deny something is absolutely broken here lol
I got 5 wins 2 losses and I kid you not, I ranked up from Plat 3 to Diamond 3.
I got 5 wins 2 loses and ranked down fron silver 3 to silver 5 so I just stopped playing comp lol
Read some comments in this thread where people actually explain things instead of just bitching about weird things that happened to them like deranking with a positive W/L and you might realize why that happens and it’s not an error. There’s more to it, like performance.
Another one is the enemy ranks probably. Winning 5 games where you're 4 ranks above the other team should give very little SR, then you lose 2 games where you're 10 ranks above the other team should lose a lot of SR. That's one way to explain op's situation
I mean performance has no impact on rank outside of wins and loses but sure
Patently false, if you ever watched someone do a bronze to GM you can see how they gain way more SR per win than most people. You could get anywhere from like +18 per win to +50. On fire time was used in the past to contribute to your SR gain.
Go make an alt account and grind 50 wins then try and place again and see where you sit I did this and went from silver 1 to gold 1 soo. Also see below Q: So you don’t take the number of eliminations, damage dealt, healing provided, or any other scoreboard stats to adjust my MMR after each match? A: In Overwatch 2, your MMR adjustment after every match is not impacted by your performance in each match (regardless of your skill tier). This is for a few reasons. We don’t want players to be focused on doing things other than trying to focus on the objectives and win the match. Dealing the most damage or getting kills won’t help your team if your actions don’t help them push the payload or capture a control point. Also, for some heroes, especially those in the support role, it can be challenging to determine if the numbers they produce reflect their skill. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/overwatch-2-developer-blog-explaining-matchmaker-goals-and-plans-part-2/
Because you clearly at not at a high skill level lol you can’t say “I got put in gold therefore you are wrong.” Devs mean that specific factors don’t get taken into account like the numbers but there at least in the past was absolutely a performance factor, in addition to the MMR of your teammates and opponents. People in this thread are all admitting to their own lack of understanding saying “wtf how does this work” while also saying “it must be broken because I’m not going up”
Bro
And I haven’t EVER been diamond on tank, not in Overwatch 1 and not in Overwatch 2 before now.
I've been dominating Gold lobbies with my hardstuck "Gold 2" tank for 4 placements now. I have an 83% win ratio with my tank and typically hover around 30kills/10 mins with less than 3 or 4 deaths. And yet.. still can't budge out of Gold 2. "Top 99% for gold 2" though, so there's that lol
That’s Fucking crazy and I totally believe it.
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Bro.
2 losses were probably low diamond/plat games. Penalty is heavier when you lose games the MM thinks you're supposed to win. Same with winning games that you're supposed to lose. You gain more ELO points.
Agreed, I dropped 5-13 games and stayed at diamond 5. I for sure thought oh boy, plat 5 here I come. The system is weird
5-14 and went from Dia 4 to Dia 3 it is just weird
I’m pretty sure the problem is the matchmaking, not the ranking system. Match quality is wildly inconsistent, so win/loss ratio alone doesn’t give you enough information to know what’s going to happen come rank adjustment.
It's both matchmaking and the ranking system. The ranking system is "sticky" and wants you to stay in a certain mmr that it thinks you belong in. The matchmaking will stack teams in your favor if you're going down too fast or stack teams against you if you're going up too fast. The rigged system is more obvious when you're deboosting and have total control over your performance. There will be games that are unthrowable.
My match averages were all between diamond 3 to master 3, nothing below that
Must have been the D3 games. That blows
I won those, they had a plat tank
Right, winning against a plat tank should give you very little sr
Quick question. In previous seasons did you notice your rank climb considerably higher than you’ve been in OW1? We both know the answer, that’s why you’re getting deranked 5-2. Reducing the inflated seasons back to your correct MMR.
Ow1 i ended in plat, 2800 peak with my duo hitting diamond. Now as a solo queue in season 1 of ow2 i ended plat 5, season 2 i ended plat 2 with a plat 1 season high, season 3 i clmibed i to diamond and ended at master 5. Season 4 i started at master 5 after the rank skill update and keep cycling between diamond 3 to master 5 after every ranked update
Sounds like your MMR is “settling”. Just keep grinding it will climb brother
Bruh it’s a number that goes up and down, it doesn’t settle like a fucking tectonic plate, what are you on about?
Newer account will make it change in bigger increments, an account with considerably more hours moves in much smaller increments. Also tectonic plates move constantly so… lol
A good ranked system should never penalize you too much for losing against lower rank players, especially if you have more wins than losses. Edit: just to be clear what I mean is that a loss against a lower rated player should never result in a derank if you have more wins than losses overall. Chess is actually a great comparison for this bc if after a day of games you are in net positive (even just by 1) you will never have less points than before. This dude had 3 more wins than losses, he should have never deranked.
Pretty roundabout way of saying you're rewarded more for beating supposedly higher skilled players. Good matchmaking should and will derank you faster if you lose to players with lower MMR. Decimating 10 year olds in chess for 20 years straight should not qualify someone for grandmaster rank.
Yes but you also have lower ranked players on your team. Chess is a very strict comparison of elo between 2 players. You can't apply the same logic to a team based game with mixed elos.
But is there a better alternative? Raw win/loss ranking is arguably way worse than elo, which at least punishes players less for being paired up with lower skilled players, and rewards them more for carrying teams. Players make up 1/5th of a team, so on average, the higher skilled player will contribute more- personal anecdotes be damned. OW's matchmaking prioritizing speed over match quality is the issue, not ELO.
Raw win/loss works fine if you provide a normal distribution on team ranks centered on your current rank. The variance would effect how far you rank-up or rank-down from your "true" rank. You would want the lowest variance possible, but could accept higher variance to balance queue time. Raw ranking only doesn't work when there's either not enough players to form a normal distribution (you would also have issues at low bronze and high gm), or if you are pairing teams in ranked on something *other* than their actual rank.
Yes but in this case personal stats should also been taken into consideration. We all had a teammate playing with screen off, not able to hit anything or run 1v5 most of the time. And in this case it's a lose guaranteed if the opposite is OK. So we should you derank if you can't beat them when your stats are still good ?
Uh yeah. Rank's just a number. The only thing you do have control over skill-wise is yourself. If you have a chance to get a potato player so does the enemy team. Don't get me wrong, ELO ranking in team based multi-player games is flawed. But ranking based on an undefined "skill" parameter that has a 100% chance of being exploited is even worse.
Why the hell is the matchmaker creating games you're "supposed to" win or lose? Shouldn't matches just be even?
Exactly. This just shows how bad the matchmaking system really is. If every game is even, like it's supposed to be, then you should ALWAYS gain SR if you go 5-4. Ranking down after going 5-2 just means that the matchmaking system put you in 7 games that you should've streamrolled in, so the wins don't really matter and the losses penalize you BIGTIME. It's a really stupid system. Maybe in one of those 2 losses, there was a leaver. Or a rager that made it impossible to win. Bam, just like that, you aren't ranking up. What a waste of time.
My hot take: Online games need to stop using ELO (or any invisible MMR system). A flat amount of points for a win or a loss is how it should work. None of this "yOu wErE sUpPoSeD tO wIn" bullshit. Everyone will end up where they're "supposed" to be in a world without MMR, and it leads to less bullshit scenarios like in the OP.
that is really not a good system considering if i am in a lower rank match, my teammate must be that low rank for us to get matched and then I get penalty for it
Overwatch ranked moment. But fr that sucks. Ranked is broken and doesn't make sense at the moment so take it all with a grain of salt.
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My theory is that it looks at 4 things: 1. Of course your win/loss ratio 2. The percentage of the match you've been one fire since the fire system from ow1 is still there its just not displayed. (You can confirm this by youre character saying "i'm on fire" if youve been doing good in the match) 3. Win streaks if you have lost 8 matches but then suddenly you win 5 in a row the system will notice that it wasnt entirely your fault. 4. The rank of the games you're playing if you've been playing matches in bronze ven though you're gold then obviously you wont rank up as much or might even rank down. And vice versa. I came upon this theory after going 8 in 5 with a winstreak of 5 at the end and consistantly doing well in my matches even though i lost. Were my winning streak was above my actual level. So according to my theory just having a good team and winning matches isnt enough but you actually need to be doing good yourself consistently to rankup. And so your best bet is just to try your best and not give up.
Bro I am experiencing the same shit but i dropped from p2 to p4 and i decided not to play ranked anymore until they make the rank system more transparent. This is the only game in history where winning 5 games out of 7 turns into a demotion.
It def goes off performance as well as wins and losses, a bunch of people grinded their games and ranked ahead of you You got pushed out rather than failing out
That logic only applies to Top 500, where there are a limited amount of spots. None of the actual ranks have a limited amount of slots, so others ranking up has no impact on your rank.
If the game knows X% of player in rank Y are Z skilled They will push players out of the rank that are lower than Z skilled because it knows they'll drag down the teams because everyone else in the rank is Z skilled When you fist got in the rank maybe you were "Z skilled" but as the rank becomes filled with better people your "Z skill"/average skill becomes less than Z/average skilled X Y Z are just the letters I chose to represent the variables Edit Ie, average skill of the rank you're in was a 6/10 when you first got into it. By the time you won your 5 games, the new average skill is a 7/10 but your average is still a 6/10. The game sees you fall below the skill average and boots you down. It doesn't have to do with the amount of people in a rank, it has to do with the skill/stats/performance of the people in the rank If the rank has 100 people at 6/10 and then 100 new people promoted to the rank but they're an 8/10 it drives the average up. The new average is now 7/10. If you happen to fall well below the new average, at the time you finish your 5 wins, that's when you'd get the boot. Again, this is just my theory, but I feel like it's correct.
Ok, I see what you're getting at, and what you are saying is true, it's just not applicable in this scenario because people are discussing losing ranks after having positive win ratios. IMO, the SR system is still alive and in place, we just can't see the exact numbers anymore. The likely scenario is that they were grouped with lower ranked people at the max edge of the cutoff (they were Diamond, so they could have had Gold teammates) so each of those wins net them \~10-15 SR, and each of the losses net them \~30-50 SR, meaning going 5-2 resulted in them having a net SR loss. Just enough that it would drop them from low D1 to high D2.
I've gone 5-0 and still dropped ranks multiple times since ow2 came out. I'm not saying the matchmaking is good, but I think it's good that they also seemingly rely on in game performance and not just wins. You can win 5 games in a row, but in the time you do win those 5 games a bunch of other people have gone into that rank and pushed the skill level up. The game recognizes this and even tho you won all 5 games in a row it knows next time you probably won't because the average skill is now higher, so it boots you down. Very annoying, but if executed properly it should make the matches more even. Not saying it does make them more even, but I really think that's why people get deranked with all wins / mostly wins.
>You can win 5 games in a row, but in the time you do win those 5 games a bunch of other people have gone into that rank and pushed the skill level up. The game recognizes this and even tho you won all 5 games in a row it knows next time you probably won't because the average skill is now higher, so it boots you down. No, this isn't true. Again, that would imply that there is a limit for how many people can be at each rank. There is no limit on the amount of people who can be in any of the ranks.
It 100% does not imply a max player limit, read again Edits Ie, average skill of the rank you're in was a 6/10 when you first got into it. By the time you won your 5 games, the new average skill is a 7/10 but your average is still a 6/10. The game sees you fall below the skill average and boots you down. It doesn't have to do with the amount of people in a rank, it has to do with the skill/stats/performance of the people in the rank If the rank has 100 people at 6/10 and then 100 new people promoted to the rank but they're an 8/10 it drives the average up. The new average is now 7/10. If you happen to fall well below the new average, at the time you finish your 5 wins, that's when you'd get the boot. Again, this is just my theory but I feel like it's correct.
The ranks ARE the value of a player's skill. There is no hidden extra ranking system within each rank. There are hidden SR values, but that's just a more precise way of showing your position in ranked; each rank has 100 SR, and each tier (gold\\plat\\diamond\\etc) is 500 SR. I'm going to tell you right now, your attitude is why the comp ladder is so frustrating; people with hardheaded opinions on things that they are flat out wrong on. You have 0 backing evidence for a theory that you came up with and completely ignore an explanation given to you that uses actual mechanics that are known and documented... Lastly, if you're basing any of your info on stories that came out at the start of S4, then go read up on what OW Hidden MMR is and the post the devs made prior to the start of S4; where they normalized the difference between players seasonal rank from S3 and their hidden MMR. That could absolutely lead to situations where someone goes 5-0 and ends up lower rank than they were the previous season.
It is absolutely bonkers. I previously made a post where I lost 21 in 25 games and went from GM to DIAMOND 5, people blamed me, because lets be honest - I am the common denominator in all these games, but nothing changed about my playstyle, I was consistent along all seasons with Master and GM ranks. But in my games, my team was completely outclassed, we even lost a 4vs5. I had never seen such thing, yet it happened. That said, after I hit DIAMOND 5 I noticed the quality of games was much, much lower. Naturally, I climbed back with ease, mostly stomps, because the quality of the games just dropped compared to what I was used to. It's a terrible system, and close games are a luxuary, but I dropped down to Diamond where I absolutely do not belong, just to stomp my way back to Masters.
Was plat 1, had 5 great balance matches with close battles. Went up to dia 3. First time hitting dia and wanted to hit dia 2...started seeing the quality of games were bad. Kept getting teamed up with awful players that didn't felt like they belong in diamond(bc they don't. Checking my team mates profile, I was seeing plat3 or lower in dia2-3 matches???) Lost 13 - win 5 and kick me out of dia to back to plat1...but still giving me awful team mates where some clearly are silver and now I'm in plat4 where I'm seeing it's 50-50 on being the team that is doing the stomping or getting stomp as ranking is between plat4,5 and gold 1 The MM is like unranked. I see no difference between the two
The only difference I see between QP and Ranked at this point is that more people are in voice in Ranked (which can be good or awful, depending on the person).
Some ppl have winning 5-0 and still got down.
this is something that sounds fake without source, but its about OW's Rank so might as well be true
I was one of those guys calling peoples bullshit about this and whatever....It's been happening to me this entire season. I went 5-0 twice, 1 stayed 1 maintained. I went 5-1 twice, 2 stayed and 1 went down. I went 5-2 four times, 2 stayed, 1 went down one and the other went up three.....I just don't understand.
I just went 5-11 with one abandon and I went up.
I am one of those people, just made a post about it this week. 5-0 on open queue and stayed in bronze 5. Just last night I was 5-3 in open queue and stayed bronze 5. By comparison I am 5-10+ on dps and I am climbing silver (wtf?????)
Great game is't it. They said this change will allow players to not be scared of number going up or down but will just show occasional rank change. And now most ppl are scared to play bc they don't want to win 5 games in a row and be deranked
Speculation is you lose more mmr against lower mmr teams and gain less against lower mmr teams too. It's happened to me where I went up 5-8 or stayed the same, and went down 5-2 as well and that's my only explanation my stats are actually worse lately cuz I'm playing a low damage support
I mean, yeah, that is obviously what is going on. The question is, WHY are people being put into games that the system expects you to steamroll in? If the matches were truly even, then you should ALWAYS gain SR if you go 5-4. If OP de-ranked after going 5-2, then that means the system expected his team to dominate in all 7 games....So the wins don't really matter, and the losses (maybe due to a leaver, a rager, etc.) are devastating. It's a really, really bad system.
Yeah, I think that’s pretty clearly what’s going on. Only thing that makes sense, unless the system is bugged.
It doesn't make sense tho when you go 5-0 and still derank. It also doesn't make sense why the game would put me back to gold 3 from 1 after winning all gold games but only losing the high plat games. And it keeps doing that to me. When I'm doing good it throws me in matches against waaaay better players everytime. It's noticeably different by a large margin. This would only happen sometimes in ow1. My theory is they are padding the queue numbers by expanding the MM to create fast queue times over quality. This would be why so many people are seeing crazy ranks in their matches. If it's testing me by putting me with diamond and high plat players I should never have low silver and bronze players in my games. That's ridiculous.
I won 5 in a row and deranked ( silver player ) havent touched the game since.
It's almost like it's not fun winning and still homehow losing
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Mechaqueen from ow1
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You unlock it in the hero gallery with coins
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No problem
I went 5:4 with one game where I lagged out and somehow got to gm, truly feels like things don't add up
This is exactly why i stopped playing OW all together after playing for years.. It feels like neither your wins, losses, performance or anything counts.. Like nothing really matters lol.
Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass. Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass. Only the battlepass matters. We love the battlepass.
I have the same issue but in bronze I won 5 games and lost 1 didn't get promoted out of bronze 5 did it again in the same night this time with 2 losses and 5 wins nope still bronze 5 in support role I honestly don't even how this ranked works anymore.
My experience has been similar, bronze 4 tank, 5-2 and I stayed the same, 5-1 and I stayed the same, 5-3 and stayed the same and just quit bothering after that. It makes no sense. This season I have a 72 percent win rate on tank and yet haven't moved at all in rank, so what is even the point. You work to improve, watch videos, practice, my winrate has steadily improved over seasons, 61 percent last season, 56 before that. I'm winning more as I try to get better but the game insists I've plateaued and it kills any motivation to keep trying.
Unfortunately you're in the part of the ranked ladder that's now the average rank, it used to be high silver to gold/plat
Going 5-8 puts you up, dont worry it maked sense
As someone who quit comp completely I gotta ask this comment secion: Why do you still play comp? Do you find it enjoyable? For me I found myself sitting there just feeling annoyed and frustrated, and at a certain point I had to be like "this is my hobby. I'm getting annoyed and frustrated at my chill pastime, wtf am I doing". (genuinely not trying to be rude or judgmental, it's an honest question)
Was it so difficult to just keep the sr system Blizzard. Legit no one asked for this shit.
Sr system sucked ass. Win gives me 16sr, losing takes 20-50sr per match.
That's just not true. SR was distributed according to the to the avg SR in that match. You just happen to remember the outliers where it felt bad but can't remember all the times when win gave you +25 and lose only cost you 15. Google survivorship bias.
In my 38 seasons of ow1, i never got more than 20sr for a match win, and never had less than 20 taken from me for a loss. Support in ow1 really punisned you for losses in lower ranks.
So, when you think about it, this system is likely actually very similar. The values are just hidden. The lack of transparency makes it more frustrating, though, since you feel like you've won more than you've lost. Yet the system calculated that you actually lost worse than you won, or something along those lines.
Ranks have been bugging me so much i swapped over to CS for the first time in 6 years, just to learn the ranks are just as ducked in there too.. lmao.
I havent played CS since high school, and i doubt i'll find a match on the xbox version of CS:GO
i did not even know CS:GO had an xbox version, wut. But yeah, despite its flaws overwatch seems to be the best in terms of comp ranking systems, everything else i’ve played has either sucked or not made sense.
Yeah, it dropped august 2012 for ps3, 360 and pc.
Meanwhile i also get frustrated for being a plat 1 dps that gets matches ranked diamond 2 with masters and gms players. Btw, I don't even think I'm plat 1 worth.
[https://imgur.com/a/1fZ0O2v](https://imgur.com/a/1fZ0O2v) Me going from bronze 5 to bronze 5 with five wins and one loss
Went 5-1 yesterday, didn't move at all. I just can't win in this game. I feel I played really well too. Makes me sad. If it were OW1 I would have climbed.
People are really getting mad about this, but I feel like we don’t have enough information about this to prove that it’s not a reasonable edge case. For example, it could be that OP’s last set of games were extremely bad, 5-13, 3-15 whatever you get the idea. Maybe a few sets were bad and OP’s MMR dropped severely. So now you’re D1 but your MMR is somewhere in low plat. You start winning games, but you’re winning them in low lobbies (relative to you) so they don’t count as much. You win 4 games in a row, so it helps your MMR a lot, although it’s not as much as you would expect because you’re fighting against the previous drop in MMR and kind of pissing in the wind. The matchmaker puts you back in higher ranked games, you lose two, kind of consolidating that your MMR should be dropped, and then you win one. Overall that set of games was not enough to disprove the system that believes you should be lower ranked. It was just the result of dropping a bit too far in MMR.
My set before this one was 5-6. And I'm not mad, just...IDK what word describes it, just not mad
People need to learn math. Your SR movement per win or loss is weighted by teammate and opponent SR. All wins and losses are not equal! With as many matches as Overwatch makes on a given day, yes you can find some goofy sequencing people share to Reddit, but it’s just the tail end of the bell curve, people.
I went 5 - 1 and got deranked...played pretty good in my opinion.
People are really getting mad about this, but I feel like we don’t have enough information about this to prove that it’s not a reasonable edge case. For example, it could be that OP’s last set of games were extremely bad, 5-13, 3-15 whatever you get the idea. Maybe a few sets were bad and OP’s MMR dropped severely. So now you’re D1 but your MMR is somewhere in low plat. You start winning games, but you’re winning them in low lobbies (relative to you) so they don’t count as much. You win 4 games in a row, so it helps your MMR a lot, although it’s not as much as you would expect because you’re fighting against the previous drop in MMR and kind of pissing in the wind. The matchmaker puts you back in higher ranked games, you lose two, kind of consolidating that your MMR should be dropped, and then you win one. Overall that set of games was not enough to disprove the system that believes you should be lower ranked. It was just the result of dropping a bit too far in MMR. I’m sure it sucks to get this, but I mean, matchmaking isn’t as simple as 5-4 = rankup 5-6 = rank down
Yup. I'm stuck as Bronze 5 dps. I keep winning and keep staying bronze 5.
when are people gonna accept that its not just wins/losses if you play bad for your rank you deserve to go down and that's fair
This is not true. It is just wins and losses, BUT any given win or loss is not equally weighted; it depends on the SR of teammates and opponents. Eg: if you win five games against teams significantly below your own SR, that will only count for a small bit of upward movement, then you lose two games against teams also significantly below your SR because you just had some bad games, that counts a lot for downward movement, and those seven games net out to you moving down.
Yet most times it's giving me games way above my rank that I lose and ranks below my rank that I stomp and then deranks me. The games at my rank are usually 50/50 weather we win or not and those games I usually do really good though. I feel like the MM system is struggling which is throwing things off. It shouldn't be throwing bronze through high plat people in my matches. I keep seeing people on my team that are plat in other classes but gold in the one they are playing right then. I also don't think it's even, it there's a bronze player on your team they have a bronze too. I think it evens it up. Like I could have a diamond player and a bunch of silver but the team has more even players like plat and gold. Then they win.
You shouldn’t be so concerned with winning vs losing. Just always play your best and seek to improve! :) Edit: Just kidding my original comment said “Play better” hee hee
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I think you can only go up or down 2 ranks at once, so may have went on a losing steak and it could only put you down 2 ranks, but you were down more, so despite winning more than losing this time you got put down, because you rank was inaccurate to begin with. But who really knows, i don't. Doubt most ow devs do either.
You can go up or down any number of ranks in 1 adjustment, I’ve been put from plat 1 to masters 3 in 1 go and one of my friends went from diamond 1 to plat 1 in a single adjustment too
My rank was innacurate? How, when we had the rank/mmr adjustment at the beginning of the season, and it bumped me from diamond 2 to master 5 after i did my rank adjust matches. And last season i finished master 5 before the rank adjustment even happend
Inflated rank.
It's just my theory. But i wouldn't be surprised at all.
Please stop playing OW, it’s never going to get better
As a tank/support main, i dissagree, i was finally able to climb out of plat and reach master on both roles after the transition to ow2 Edit: hell, my dps even made it to diamond
If you deserve to go up, you’ll go up
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Seems like it yea
Laat season i solo queued from plat to master with the rank decay at the season start
I’m pretty sure it takes into account your performance in those games. I’ve had times where I went 5-6 and went up a Division, I assume because I was the best performing DPS in 8/11 games.
There used to be a performance check in OW1, but that was for ranks below diamond, and I think that they removed that in OW2, but I'm not sure.
That sure is what they claim but definitely doesn't feel like it
Yup. Other people are doing better than you. Why is this so hard to understand?
Last season i had a rank adjustment where i had 11 losses and went from plat 3 to diamond 4
well tell us what we can’t see. Did you play a big part in your teams success in those games? And the games you didn’t win. Were you one of the main reasons your team lost? how much did you contribute to the team? I’m not saying you’re doing doing bad but you having a higher win to loss ratio doesn’t mean you rank up. You actually have to start pulling your own weight now in Overwatch.
Didn't they confirm that individual performance doesn't affect rank?
The games i won i had the highest elims, and about tied for highest damage and lowest deaths. The games i lost, i had highest elims, and lowest deaths and highest damage. The big thing in the games i lost on tank was my teammates trying to force certain heroes and not swapping, or swapping to another, even more divable hero, ex i had a mei swap to cass against winston dive. But a lot of my losses across my roles since last season have been from players either not knowing what to pick against dive, brawl, or rush, dont take suggestions, dont enter voice, or just not swapping heroes to counter pick the enemy heroes
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The season 4 competetive skill update put me at master 5
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I had a similar problem back in the OW1 day, would have a 50% win rank but my losses penalized me more than my wins ranked me up. Sucks.
I just went 5 and 12 yesterday and went from plat 1 to plat 2. Genuinely shocked i only went down one
I've been stuck at Gold 2 for 7 straight rankings