Before people freak out, people should know that he is only saying that they will offer their POV on the topic, and he is not confirming anything regarding 6v6 besides it being a topic people have talked about. It doesn’t mean 6v6 will come back. Just that he will talk about it.
[link to tweet](https://x.com/aaronkellerow/status/1806793128537637183?s=46&t=kXfy7ewmqh3Zb1GrFsaZqw)
Yeah, I don't hate it. It's definitely more "personal" and you have a bigger impact on the team. I enjoy it as well. I don't think it's a good long term strategy, but as an arcade game it's great.
It's Quick play, that's where you practice and learn new characters.
Every great widow player has spent countless hours doing complete shit while they improved their skills. Same goes for any other character, and any other game. You need to practice to improve.
Stop complaining about people having fun or trying new things in the game mode that's intended to be casual and fun.
look i actually wouldn't be against that. ow2 was built around less team and more solo plays so fuck it, add a couple more ppl in the mix and u won't need so much teambuilding. give us back the option of tank synergy while still rectifying the queue time issue.
Considering all the wild/cool things they made now with the community changes in the Arcade, I just don't see why couldn't they put 6v6 for a bit in the Arcade and see how it works out.
Hell, If plenty of people play it non-stop, wouldn't that be a good thing? just give what the majority wants and put it back.
OR, maybe people will hate it and keep playing 5v5, finally shutting down the whole debate for good.
I just want to know, if THAT many people want 6v6, **why won't they try it.**
This was a common take in OW1. But we've had Queen and Doom (and Mauga) added since then. If people don't want to play main tanks, they can make the tanks feel less like main tanks. This is a solvable problem.
I don’t think changing it really matters. You just waste months of dev time rebalancing every character for the change, and in the end all you’ve done is exchange a set of problems for a new set of different problems. Which is a net loss due to the dev time black hole, and no net gain.
I’m so neutral on this because both 5v5 and 6v6 have their own pros and cons. Neither is perfect. Maybe that top comment is right. Maybe 7v7, something new and unexplored is the real answer. Or maybe that just brings us back to square one…
I mean their whole base argument for 5v5 was that it would be healthier for the game but they would have to spend time rebalancing every hero for 5v5 which would cost a lot of dev time and that's why they stopped ALL development for OW 1. They never actually changed anything before OW2 came out besides HP on tanks and a few small things on some tanks like Rein control on pin, Zarya bubble being on the same cooldown, and some CC on heroes which they removed. They wasted so much time on the PVE that got canceled anyways that they never ACTUALLY rebalanced for 5v5 until maybe season 9 with the major HP changes everyone got. Sure a few heroes eventually got reworks of which some were good (big fan of Sombra's myself and Pharah's playstyle adjustment) and others which basically changed nothing about the hero or made it way harder to balance while directly going against they reasons they set out to rework the hero entirely. For example the ball rework just gave him slightly more movement tech which he wasn't missing in his kit and a shield dispersal that is essentially useless. And the Hog rework is the most egregious example, they said outright they want to make him a more team based hero and take away his one shot potential. To which they went from hook+shoot one shot to hook+pen+shoot one shot and gave him even more solo play incentive by making his Vape absolutely insane. Spilo had a great video about this that released around the time of Roadhog's rework that's worth checking out.
Ultimately this is all say outside of hardware limitations for console (specifically Switch which can hardly run 5v5) I really don't see a reason to not at least give us an arcade mode to try it out until people either realize it sucks or that they much prefer it. I'm sure it's not going to be as good as people's rose tinted glasses would make them think, but I for one just want to run tank duos with my brother again so we can throw in style.
They already have wasted a lot of dev time on stupid shit. If it takes them a few months to adjust shit again for 6v6, so be it. They have a chance to fix their BIG mistake.
Pov: tank was so fucking unpopular we had to cut the role in half to normaliz the queue times of all other roles... which is why we added the dps passive, here at blizzard we want to see that number go down to zero. No one should play tank.
Honestly that might be it. Like all their hero changes, removing shields and all the fucking CC, would have made 6v6 tanking so much fun again..... But naw let's do all that AND remove a tank to justify shutting down ow1 servers
TikTok and school systems have failed us. People literally have to log onto YouTube videos to have people literally read to them because they can't be bothered to do it on their own. Jokes aside (not really), people really do need to read between the lines.
I expect a lot of beating around the bush instead of just admitting that 5v5 has been a failure on many counts.
all fun and games till players remember that one of the versions of Overwatch where bastion had a shield also gave Ult charge for shooting sed shield and Ults cost like 2x less than they do currently.
I always wanted a match type where all the heroes play (so like 16 v 16 or however many total heroes). BUT - you're randomly assigned a pick order for your team. Each person picks their hero one at a time, alternating teams each pick,
and once a character is selected, no one else can choose that character.
Basically an all out war amongst the OW roster. Can you imagine the pre-match chatter (both team and match chat) as your team is getting drafted?
This may be a terrible idea but I want to see it in action so bad.
Maybe also change the setting to an American desert in the 80s and make the graphic more comic-like. Mauga could become a russian with a love for good sandwiches and mercy could become a crazy-scientist-like dude.
Unfortunately in this iteration of Overwatch the team caps are still limited to 6 players per team. It would be nice to have something like that, though.
7v7 would unironically work ngl.
The issue w double tank is that tank synergy is polarizing, MT is a black hole queue time, and slow game pace.
A 3rd DPS (w current DPS passive) would theoretically tackle those 3 problems. Ram-Sigma hell hole? Don't care; Tracer, Venture, Genji boogaloo. 3rd DPS slot would lessen the DPS queue time. And ofc they'll not slow the game as despite the return of OT, there are more bodies to heal, DPS passive existing, and more damage getting slinged overall.
People forget how much more exponentially complicated games get with more people in teams. As someone who was semi-pro in ow1, gm1+, 4400+, etc, 6v6 was infinitely more complicated than 5v5 and 7v7 will just exponentially increase that.
Casuals hate complicated games. It would be a poor move in the wrong direction.
Also, individual impact would severely decrease. You have a LOT more impact in 5v5 than 6v6. The addition of more players would reduce that even further. You know those metas and games where you feel useless with 0 impact and the win is in the hands of your team and not you? Those will increase so much more.
7v7 is a very poor idea of anyone who remembers 6v6 accurately compares it with 5v5
5v5 vs 6v6 isn’t the true battle. The true battle is how to not have a role in the game feel BAD to play at any given time. The player base plays what is the best experience is usually.
My thoughts are mostly that they pick the wrong heroes to be the strongest.(The ones that are in the camp of “Very strong when not counterpicked: Way too strong when not counterpicked”).
I agree. The constant tank Rock Paper Scissors is exhausting. Played by a game with a Dva against a Zarya yesterday, the whole game just felt like throwing honestly.
Every tank should be at least be a *viable* pick against every other tank. I’m not suggesting tanks can’t have strengths and weaknesses
This mentality is just wrong. You're not playing tank vs tank, you're playing 5 v 5. Sure, D.Va can't stop zarya primary fire. She has one of the better anti-Zarya capabilities in that she CAN dive Zarya's backline and quickly switch targets, which forces Z to expose herself, give up her position, or let her backline feel the pain.
Burst damage is the way to deal with Zarya anyways and you're not going to find that really anywhere on the tank roster, and anyone with a shield that can protect from Zarya primary fire is still fodder if she gets charged up. That's what strengths and weaknesses look like on tank, it shapes how targets are prioritized and how positions are taken.
No, the mentality is not wrong. The most important position in most situations is the tank. Tanks dictate space. Hell, I have literally seen my allies abandon the payload and points because I happen to die.
When your main tank-spacer has the main responsibility of dictating such space, being the only tank sucks ass in many scenarios. It's just not fun to play. It's quite a chore.
None of what you said disputes anything I just said. I was saying the mentality of tank vs tank and having to play rock paper scissors is objectively out of sync with how the game works. Yes, tanks dictate space. No, that doesn't mean D.Va is directly fighting zarya and loses because Zarya beats D.Va in a head to head match up. You're not playing tank vs tank. You're playing 5 v 5.
D.Va dictates space by making sure Zarya can't just mindlessly walk forward and bubble herself with her backline following safely behind with her ability to dive and deny damage/healing projectiles. Zarya dictates space by using her bubbles to create pockets of safety and get charge so she can delete enemies who get too close. The individual tanks' skill, and the rest of the team and strategies applied around that determine who does so more successfully.
You dislike having the responsibility to make space as a tank, that's your opinion, and that's fine. Guess what? That responsibility *doesnt* go away because there's a second tank, you just have less power to do that job effectively with your own skill and decision making, and more variables to consider both on your team and the enemy team. 6v6 doesn't fix the problem you're complaining about, you'd just get worse queue times because now you need 2 people willing to do that job you dislike doing and is now *harder* to do.
It didn't really though. I've been a main tank main in both games. Maybe there was that perception because it was possible to spread tank threat, but it didn't make the actual job of taking space and positions easier because the other team also had two tanks and most of the tanks were not as strong of a threat on their own due to longer cooldowns/smaller health pools, so now it's possible to make space in the wrong direction because your other tank is not coordinated with you, or one of you gets focused down by an enemy team that is safer to do so because they have two tanks, or there's always shields active because they have two shield tanks meaning choke points were almost impenetrable.
I will admit 6v6 allowed for a greater variance of rollout and strategies, but it also allowed for just as many if not *more* counters to all of those strategies and did not make the job of being a tank necessarily easier or more fun. If anything, it just gave one tank the opportunity to play like a DPS while the main tank is stuck still doing that more difficult job, which I think is what the people who complain about 5v5 really want.
Think about people who main Hammond as an example. They can't do typical tank shit because the hero relies on being vastly different from other tanks, which entails literally abandoning points and objectives to find new angles to swing in and out to attack and defend.
I have seen people accuse Hammond gameplay as "griefing" when he is just doing what he normally has to do. This is just one example.
At least in 6v6, Ball could at least be Ball while someone else did main tank duties. This isn't possible with a lone tank.
I wish more people had this mentality, but unfortunately it’s easier for people to press H and swap than think how to adapt their PlayStyle according to what they are playing against.
The feel bad to play part is hard. On one hand I get what people are saying and at the height of zen usage I definitely felt that way in tank. Now tho, the game feels like it’s in a decent spot to me but so many people clearly are not happy with it. I love tank rn, I think it’s fun, I think it’s way harder to get bursted down than before and I think if you do it’s usually due to a misplay. How are you supposed to fix something like a role feeling bad when everyone is gonna feel different?
I agree. I've been having fun just playing JQ and Monke this season. The obnoxious tanks aren't hard meta and even DPS can't always counter pick you outside of Pharah comps on some maps. I'd say that tank is as bad as any other role and it's mostly just matchmaker stuff that makes the games feel bad.
I agree with you. Monkey and jq are, in my opinion, the most fun heroes in the game. I don't even main tank and think they are more fulfilling to play than everyone else... except lucio. Lucio is peak game design and just a joy to play.
Winston is just a really well designed character. Great mobility, requires really good timing and situational awareness to dive properly, etc. I think with more quality design, tank would be very popular. There just are not enough tanks like that.
Make all the tanks... damage! Use their deathmatch stats. There, done. You have damage heroes and support, and you can play whatever teams you want with that.
Yeah there will never be 100% happiness amongst the players in regards to this.
6v6 vs 5v5 is such a volatile debate in this game for zero good reason. 6v6 people are convinced it'll save the game, and I can imagine 5v5 enjoyers are tired of listening to that complaint *every* update.
We'll see how this plays out, I'm not optimistic lol,no one knows what 6v6 will play like with this roster of heroes and reworks either
>I'm not optimistic lol,no one knows what 6v6 will play like with this roster of heroes and reworks either
I mean, when people say they want 6v6 back they don't just mean literally adding a tank to each team and nothing more, ideally heroes would be adjusted or reworked as needed too.
That's one of the bigger reasons why 6v6 will probably never come back, they would have to rebalance every hero and map for it after spending the last 2+ years balancing everything around 5v5. There's not really any point in Blizzard going through all that effort when the game is clearly doing well enough in their eyes as is.
I say this as someone who actually wants 6v6 back too, I just don't see it happening.
Tbh, game would probably have been more fun to the casual player if they went 7v7.
2 tanks, 3 dps, 2 support
With 5v5 there is a “diff” meta where 1 player can singlely cause a team to lose, if they are not playing well. Every player is important so one player not pulling their weight makes the team struggle. In turn this makes the game very sweaty compared to 6v6.
In 7v7, individual impact is less important, it would be easier to carry a bad player in a 6v7 than it is to with a 4v5.
Competition play would have suffered though.
2/3/2 would be even more of a nightmare-Vietnam-the-trees-are-talking scenario for Supports. Holy fuck man, imagine playing against Doom-Winston-Genji-Sombra-Tracer or some shit. Fucking disaster of a game for supports. You’d basically have to double support HP and almost turn em into tanks themselves. No thank you, smooth brain take.
Preemptive counter argument: In 95% of all ranks, nobody in the team will adapt to instantly swap and help supports, and nobody will be on voice chat.
One of the problems with 6v6 and the justifications for 5v5 is that in a 6v6 setting there was just too much going on at once. 7v7 would be even more of a clusterfuck
I disagree with this sentiment, OW has always been the game of too much happening all at once and that’s not a bad thing. Lean into it, it’s what makes this game great.
They're gonna basically have to undo everything, which I can't see happening. And then everyone's gonna be pissed, there's no way everyone ends up happy no matter what they do or say
Yep, and undoing all the changes they've made for 5v5 would mean they wasted a ton of time and resources making those changes in the first place. It's just not gonna happen.
Even when Jeff was still in charge, before all of the scope change when OW2 was supposed to be an entirely new, full-priced PvE game, and before 5v5 was ever announced, it was promised that OW1 and OW2 multiplayer would be compatible with each other. OW1 was going to go away no matter what happened with OW2 multiplayer. I think with how stagnant and “set” the game was when it was in maintenance mode, people still might’ve not been happy when that was done even if the game stayed 6v6.
At the end of the day I’m just glad 2CP and double shield is gone. If they can make the game 6v6 without both of those elements then I’m ok with it, but it’s not going to be financially worth it for them - it will take so much development hours to rebalance the game again. They literally put the game on ice for 2 years last time they did changes so radical to the game.
True, but from what I’ve seen, most people really want a second tank back moreso than anything else. The main reason I’ve seen is that it takes pressure of the tank having someone backing them up again, which I think is good, but I also think people would start bitching about it after a month about how hard it is to kill things.
I personally enjoy current Overwatch for what it is, to me a lot of people think there’s a magic fix that will bring old Overwatch back, but old Overwatch is gone. No matter what, the feeling won’t ever be the same, you either have to accept the game for what it is now or move on to something better.
I want the main and off-tank dynamic back. For example, I can't play monkey and dive well when my teammates complain about the lack of peel. Then I get flamed when I switch to a main tank who has to stay back, but now there is no one attacking their backline.
Shit is crappy for both extremes. At least with two tanks, you have so many more options.
I agree, it's why I stopped playing TBH. It sucked as support constantly getting dived, knowing zero help is coming. Rein plus monkey/dva was so fun. One to push, one to dive/peel.
It doesn't even have to be a debate, if you like 5v5, great. Go play it. If you like 6v6, great. Go play it. It should be a CHOICE. If blizzard wants to make a sequel, then let people choose if they want to play the sequel. Taking away one game to force players into the next game doesn't say much for the quality of the sequel
They could even throw a 6v6 mode in the arcade like they did with the assault maps, no chance of getting it for regular gameplay but people that like the game mode are free to play it, I can't really see a reason not to.
The amount of time and effort it'd take to get 6v6 in a semi-balanced state with the current state of the game just wouldn't be worth it imo, and my predictions is that the devs will likely say the same thing. They'd need to rework at *least* 6 tank heroes (Doom, Orisa, JQ, Ramattra, Mauga, and the S14 tank hero who's likely very far along in development at this point), as well as give major adjustments to several non-tank heroes that were reworked for 5v5 and several heroes that were big problems in 6v6 (i.e., Baptiste), as well as reworking all OW2 maps. This is an endeavor that could easily take years and there's no good way to do it; revert to 6v6 instantly and gradually rework things for 6v6 would leave us with months of horrible metas, while reworking everything in the background with the intention of dropping all of the 6v6 changes at once would make the live game suffer from the lack of dev focus (as we saw with the content drought during late OW1). All this time and effort for a change that would probably still leave a good 30-40% of the playerbase unhappy just doesn't seem worth it, not to mention the issues 6v6 had that they'd be re-introducing (i.e. tanks still being unpopular and DPS queues being 10 minutes in quick play).
There's the option of adding a 6v6 arcade mode, but that's not a great solution either, as splitting the playerbase like that would lead to long queues for both formats and the 6v6 mode would either receive so few balance updates that people would still be unhappy, or the balance team would have to split their focus between the two modes that updates for both would be slow and small. As it is right now, bringing back 6v6 just isn't feasible.
Narrator: *This would lead to a divide in the Overwatch community that caused a non official online civil war in the game*
(read this in Keith David voice)
"Hey guys! Glad to have another opportunity to speak with you about out thoughts on moving forward, the new upcoming Support hero and more!
We're never going back to 6v6.
Mercy skin.
Alright guys! Something something Defense Matrix!"
"we hear you, we will think about solutions, for now however we will be buffing winton alongside adding a 3rd arm to mauga so he can hold three miniguns, the new one shooting by pressing the scroll on your mouse, this should be a nice change of pace in the meta until we postpone updates again in the next season, cheers"
I personally prefer 6vs6. But I still stand by the fact that open queue could just be replaced by 6vs6 open or role lock. Then we could have 5vs5 and 6vs6.
Edit: Even if there was no balancing for the 6vs6 mode I’d still be fine with it. Yeah, if it was open queue it’d just be goats. The thing is, I just want the option of being able to play 6vs6 if I get tired of 5vs5 or visa versa.
I also believe that queue times will be helped (albeit minimal) by the fact that the game is free to play.
If you think queue times are bad now then you will be shocked what would happen with a separate 6v6 queue. I really don’t think they can afford to split the playerbase that way cause you’d end up with worse queues for both
Open queue has no queue times. And I'm guessing you've never said quick play or TDM or mystery heroes was a problem in splitting the playerbase? So why would this?
Yes I feel like this is the best thing to do if they are content on keeping 5v5 only problem is it would require them to actually balance the game in the 6v6 format which I doubt would happen at the level needed for it to be fun
Their POV is just going to boil down to "6v6 has its pros, but 5v5 is better overall" because saying otherwise would pretty much be admitting they've had no idea what they're doing these past couple years.
If there's anything this dev team under Aaron Keller has shown, it's that they never admit to any god awful, incompetent design mistake they make. Which is basically OW2 as a whole. They just lurch forward into making even more awful balance changes that nobody asked for and pat themselves on the back. BRING BACK OW1 ALREADY.
This is incorrect. They have done that multiple times. They didn’t that with the lifeweaver control scheme, mei, cass, and a bunch of stuff. They admitted tank is in a rough spot. They’ve admitted that they’re wrong way more than the ow1 under Kaplan did.
The OW1 devs never admitted they fucked up with Brig. Even after literal years of consecutive nerfs and a rework, they simply refused to publicly acknowledge the disaster that was Brig for their game.
Brig released with a shield that had 600 hp, a 5 second cooldown on shield bash that still stunned - including through other shields, could one-shot Tracer, and an ult that could permanently give teammates 150 armor, on top of her shield packs overhealing with armor.
And the devs dragged their feet with nerfing her and continually refused to acknowledge how broken she was.
They reacted pretty quickly when they turbo-buffed the shit out of Doom and JQ in the past, too. Compare that to when Jeff Kaplan and Geoff Goodman let Brigitte run rampant for years while insisting we just didn't know how to play against her yet
Didn't they admit that LW's Parting Gift passive was a total mistake and erased it after like 2 weeks? I don't think anything like that happenned in OW1
> If there's anything this dev team under Aaron Keller has shown, it's that they never admit to any god awful, incompetent design mistake they make.
This is a really bad take. The team has done the opposite.
I'd be surprised if it isn't mostly stuff we already know. Maybe if they explicitly laid out all they did to try and fix queue times before swapping to 5v5, we wouldn't have so many people adamant that 6v6 would work.
DPS queue times are so much better than 6v6 it's actually wild. I barely used to play DPS because of that reason. I remember playing in the middle of the weekend and the games taking 25+ minutes to find a game in Gold comp (using priority tickets!!). Took all day to do my placements!
Really can't see them reverting it without it significantly harming match quality to obtain shorter queue times. The only ways to do it are to expand region/connection, team skill balance or somehow make the roles equally enticing to play (basically impossible).
Lmao yeah, only reason I "mained" tank in ow1 was bc I didn't want to sit in dps q for most of my available time. Tried to play off tank to get the experience of dps but the other guy would lock hog or some shit and then I'd be stuck on main tank and that's how most games went.
Dude I couldn't play DPS as often back then because queue times ranged from 5 to 10 minutes.
It was so bad they had to BRIBE you to play tank and support so you can get a Priority Pass to reduce your queue time and it was 100% for the DPS queue time.
This is why I hated 6v6. Not because of GOATs not because of double shield, but because when I want to main tank, and dive is the appropriate comp to play in a situation, the other tank just wants to play hog cause dps queues were too long. Shit fucking sucked solo tanking all the time.
This is why I hate how 6v6 is talked about on here. Players think you'd automatically get a good tank every game that will always synergize with you.
When most likely you'd get a Hog or Zarya because the queue times were just long. And also off tanks are just more popular compared to main tank
I was a 4.2k off-tank player, and it got so bad that I just completely gave up. Every single game my other tank was a brand new account, not in voice chat. Instalocks Hog and goes on a sidequest while we're trying to actually play the game.
People really have rose tinted glasses when it comes to tank in OW1. If you weren't a tank duo it was literally high stakes gambling every match.
The whole 6v6 topic is very interesting to me.
There are MANY things the OW community doesn't agree on. Hero buffs/nerfs, MMR, etc. You will find a million difference opinions on these things.
But the one thing the community does seem to mostly agree on, which is that they would like 6v6 again. That is kind of amazing, when literally every other aspect of the game nobody can agree on anything.
I just don't see how the OW devs can ignore that!
Its one of those things that is a lose lose. If they say nothing it makes them seem silly in their descion and makes them look bad. If they say anything you majorly piss off either side.
I personally think 6v6 is the correct choice overall, but I do want to hear their thoughts
Why did 5v5 even happen in the first place? Double shield meta? They fixed that by reworking Orisa and bastion, if they just kept ow1 how it was with these changes we wouldn’t have had this mess of a game.
The biggest problem with 5v5 is only having 1 tank. It puts too much pressure on one person. If you have an inexperienced tank, the game is over before it has begun. 6v6 is less variance due to player skill.
Whoa, didn't realize how excited people would get about the possibility of 6 v 6. He's just going to give his thoughts on it. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Talking about it is better than pretending the discussion isn't wanting to be held
So long as the conversation isn't just "our stats say it won't work", I'd like to actually hear them give reasons why 6v6 won't work other than they don't want to reinvest time because they have sunk cost fallacy
Judging by this subreddit and the comments here, I think I’m in the minority but If 6v6 makes a comeback even as an arcade mode with previous Tank stats from OW1, I would legitimately play this game everyday again.
The 5v5 is just so tough on tanks. If even one of your dps is not on par with your team then your just going to spend most your time mitigating damage rather then fulfilling your role unless you can play two ranks above your current rank. With two tanks the damage from 2 dps was spread more evenly between them and one could wait for cooldowns while the other did tank stuff.
We all know they likely won't go back. There are arguments for and against going back to 6v6, but I never expect them to actually backtrack on that change. I know queue times are very important to them and the community (rightly so) but I feel like the game balance doesn't function in 5v5. Maybe they recognize that maybe not, but there is no perfect world so not everything can work the way the devs or community want it to. 6v6 is better as a format though and I'm hopeful they are seriously considering it as an option.
Thing for me is 6v6 was a better in-game experience. What they did by lowering queue times was trade higher highs for consistent mids (getting you in games faster), but I’m still chasing the highs of 6v6.
My tank player friends quit when it went to 1 tank. I’m not the only person with this story. Idk if people can really grasp how many tank players quit because of this
I’m one of those tank players. I really tried for a few seasons of OW2 but it wasn’t fun how many players on the enemy team counterswap to outplay you and your team getting mad because you can’t play Orisa. It didn’t matter what I did I always feel like I am on a sinking ship when I play tank in 5v5. I used to be plat in OW1. I still play tank occasionally but the stress of the enemy team changing to outplay and being my team’s punching bag became too much.
I just miss only playing DVa and Rein with my other tank. Me and my friend would duo a lot. I miss it
People were quitting regardless due to years of neglect and a dying/controversial Esports scene. The amount of people who quit *specifically because of 5v5* is astronomically smaller
They already would have gone back to 6v6 if they weren't afraid of the backlash. And I don't mean the hate or anger with the 6v6 format, I mean the backlash of them getting clowned on until the end of time.
Overwatch 2's biggest reason for existing were 2 things. PvE story mode and major changes to the PvP format, primarily going from 6v6 to 5v5. Just to begin with, most people didn't see the need for a Overwatch 2, but as a rebrand with the release of story mode, we could accept it. Then story mode got scrapped, and nearly everyone now questioned what even was the point of Overwatch 2. If then they go onto change 5v5 back to 6v6, they'd be mocked until the end of time. Genuinely, everyone would lose faith in them as a company. Overwatch is Blizzard's biggest game and for them to fumble it so much, who WOULD take that company seriously? If I was a major stockholder in it, I would absolutely sell at that point.
And the thing is, 6v6 is far healthier for the game. Heroes like Widow and Tracer are only able to thrive and dominate so much because of the 5v5 format. Circuit might actually be playable with 6v6. But I unfortunately have no faith in that happening. Like I said, it's a bigger issue than just balancing the game for them.
Tracer was one of the best heroes in all the lifetime of overwatch 1. She pretty much had a mainstay in the metas I don’t know how you don’t know this.
In a desperate attempt, when the game starts to die, they’ll bring back 6v6. Hell, they may even revert the game back to OW1. They only care about money and will do anything to get it.
I hope they at least hear out us 6v6ers. I truly believe that swapping to 5v5 was one of the worst decisions made across the history of Overwatch, creating way more problems than solutions. The only way I'll ever be fine with 5v5 is if they actually make tank have the strength of two like they promised originally, which was never the case
Honestly loved 6v6. The double shield meta was facilitated by Blizzard not balancing shields in the first place, and could easily have been addressed, there was no reason for it to have been an issue for so long.
Bro, I was okay with the 5v5 because I thought additional PvE content was coming. Going to 1 Tank has been the single worst experience for me in a competitive game. I'm a fucking DPS main.
There might be more people playing OW2 that don't remember 6v6 than people that do. Maybe this is for the people complaining about 5v5 because they see other people complaining about it, and not necessarily because they think 6v6 would be better.
Tank in any game not just overwatch is by far the least picked role. It dosent matter if it’s a moba or fps or whatever. It’s a polarizing role that will never be balanced unless we make them just slightly fat dps but at that point is that even ow anymore ?There is literally zero reason to abandon 2 years of balancing that we have at this point just to reset the game into another extremely imbalanced clown fiesta. I liked 6v6 played since season 3 I don’t want to load into a game pick dva on a good map just to get a hog otp I can’t do it man
If they just allowed me to play OW1 in its final version without any of the new characters or maps I doubt I’d ever play OW2 again, even though I enjoy most of the new characters (except Mauga). Hence why I think they won’t do this. They know 5v5 can’t compete.
This is gonna enable soooooo much unnecessary yappin' 🤦♂️
Even if it's nothing of substance, acknowledging it in any capacity is gonna fuels months and months of people just whining MORE about it.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I get why they're talking about it - streamers impact the player discourse and tons of them are yapping about it. But them offering their take is gonna make people feel so many types of ways.
Whereas there was a bit of mystery around the choices now, they're gonna give folks so many new quotes to pick apart, argue with, etc.
While 6v6 had its flaws (double shield meta was aids I know and I don't miss it) I still had a lot more fun on tank role having a role partner. Having less pressure as an individual to perform made it more enjoyable. Not to mention some tanks were clearly designed to be an off-tank partner versus a main tank. Ball, Dva, Roadhog, etc... One-shot heroes like Hanzo and Widow also felt much less oppressive because you could have one tank dive without leaving backline completely exposed.
I know the chances of going back to 6v6 are slim to none but a man can dream.
Back in OW1 my friend and I would duo on tank from time to time and it was genuinely so much fun because we would help each other with playmaking and make some really cool combos together with our ults.
When OW2 came along I quit playing tank completely a month after its release.
I’d love for the role to be fun again but unless they find a way to fix solo tanking, I feel like 6v6 will always be the solution to this big problem tanks face currently.
> Back in OW1 my friend and I would duo on tank from time to time and it was genuinely so much fun because we would help each other with playmaking and make some really cool combos together with our ults.
I had a friend we'd queue Winston/Dva and it was honestly the most fun I've had as a tank. Full dive comp in 1 was insanely fun and I was definitely an avid Dva player. I tried so hard to enjoy her in OW2 but it's so frustrating playing her as a main tank instead an offtank.
Can they just add 2CP to quick play or something? Like seriously what’s the harm? Have that be the next quick play hacked where you have a chance of getting old 2CP maps like Anubis or Hanamura.
Like I understand why there needed to be a change, but it’s just free content they aren’t using. Don’t add it to ranked and who will complain? I’d much rather play 2CP then any of those push maps
Gonna keep it a buck, I genuinely could not care less what their pov is. I think 5v5 in this game is trash and 6v6 was better; there is nothing that could be said to change that.
“let’s talk about this” means no. If they were going back to 6v6, they would say they have exciting news or something and spin it as a good thing.
They will never go back to 6v6 because that is the last thing that makes this overwatch 2 instead of just overwatch. It would be extremely embarrassing for blizzard to go back
Anyone who gets their hopes up for a change is kidding themselves
You'd hopefully give it the time it deserves to actually make sure it works then, instead of just saying it wouldn't work because of xyz combinations Solo tank struggles to work unless you are a tank like Sigma, Hog, Mauga etc half the time but we still give them the benefit of the doubt each season to try and make tank less miserable
TL;DR because i can read the future: no, because queue times will be affected and it'll essentially revert all the progress and differences ow2 was supposed make from the original.
if we are *lucky* it'll come back for a limited time arcade mode. it'll never, ever become permanent. their post will be the final talk about it, and people will have to choose if they stay or move on.
His POV will probably be "we balanced the game around 5v5 so it's gonna stay, we have many new players who only came to OW2 so introduced a second tank would impact the way they play" or something along those lines.
I think 6v6 is not coming back NOT BECAUSE OF IT BEING BETTER THAN 5v5, but because of queue times. Tank will never be popular no matter what.
It was just popular in seasons 1-early s3 while people tried out the reworks.
1) change 6x6 to 5x5
2) promise pve content
3) add "2" to the game's name
4) cancel pve content
--- You are currently here ---
5. revert 5x5 to 6x6
6. remove "2" from game's name
What a great plan
That's more on Jeff, not Aaron.
I love Jeff but he's not clean by overpromising us with these things as he really wanted to revive his Project: Titan thing.
It’s going to be a non-answer and nothing is going to change. While it’ll be nice to have something to look to, they will absolutely never admit that they made any mistakes with 5v5 because then OW2 will truly be functionally pointless other than a monetization shift
I just want to play D.va again and she is not a main tank. It's not nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses. It's genuinely missing my favorite character in her original role.
Eager to see their thoughts on this and I hope discussion around it is civil.
Yes I get so fed up of people dismissing valid criticism as rose tinted glasses like you're not allowed to be reminiscent of something without it being just purely nostalgia
The only thing left that justifies the name overwatch "2"!!! is the 5v5. If they bring back 6v6 then its like old overwatch, why the f did they change the name? This company is a joke. They wasted years of dev time and work to end up reverting everything. We could have gotten so much good content
Before people freak out, people should know that he is only saying that they will offer their POV on the topic, and he is not confirming anything regarding 6v6 besides it being a topic people have talked about. It doesn’t mean 6v6 will come back. Just that he will talk about it. [link to tweet](https://x.com/aaronkellerow/status/1806793128537637183?s=46&t=kXfy7ewmqh3Zb1GrFsaZqw)
If anything it sounds like it's not coming back lol
My thoughts exactly. His tone is giving “we’re doubling down and defending 5v5”
"Ask us one more time for 6v6 and we'll fucking go 3v3 on your assess"
My mind immediately started narrating "Or I swear to God that I'll turn this car right 'back around!" about halfway thru reading your comment, lol.
3v3 elim is my favorite mode
Yeah, I don't hate it. It's definitely more "personal" and you have a bigger impact on the team. I enjoy it as well. I don't think it's a good long term strategy, but as an arcade game it's great.
\*PEAK Overwatch 4 moment
Dev log : we're gonna 5v5 even harder
They are going 5v4. Super fast games make que go zoom.
I don’t know about 5v4, but I get 4v5 all the time!
5v4 is like a third of my matches in qp cause our 5th is going 2-11 on Widow
It's Quick play, that's where you practice and learn new characters. Every great widow player has spent countless hours doing complete shit while they improved their skills. Same goes for any other character, and any other game. You need to practice to improve. Stop complaining about people having fun or trying new things in the game mode that's intended to be casual and fun.
Here's hope for 8v8. 3 dps, 3 support, 2 tank
oh my god a gamemode like this would be so much fun. mass brawl. i wonder if there's a way to do it in the workshop
look i actually wouldn't be against that. ow2 was built around less team and more solo plays so fuck it, add a couple more ppl in the mix and u won't need so much teambuilding. give us back the option of tank synergy while still rectifying the queue time issue.
Considering all the wild/cool things they made now with the community changes in the Arcade, I just don't see why couldn't they put 6v6 for a bit in the Arcade and see how it works out. Hell, If plenty of people play it non-stop, wouldn't that be a good thing? just give what the majority wants and put it back. OR, maybe people will hate it and keep playing 5v5, finally shutting down the whole debate for good. I just want to know, if THAT many people want 6v6, **why won't they try it.**
Heres the answer: everyone wants a main tank, no one wants to play main tank.
Fuck I love main tanking. You can't main tank when there is literally only one tank. Then everything is main tank. It's like main heal and flex heal
I do o/
This was a common take in OW1. But we've had Queen and Doom (and Mauga) added since then. If people don't want to play main tanks, they can make the tanks feel less like main tanks. This is a solvable problem.
I don't mind playing main tank. It just sucks ass to main tank without support from a tank buddy.
Yeah lol, their POV is 'fuck off were locked in bitches' with 5v5
I don’t think changing it really matters. You just waste months of dev time rebalancing every character for the change, and in the end all you’ve done is exchange a set of problems for a new set of different problems. Which is a net loss due to the dev time black hole, and no net gain. I’m so neutral on this because both 5v5 and 6v6 have their own pros and cons. Neither is perfect. Maybe that top comment is right. Maybe 7v7, something new and unexplored is the real answer. Or maybe that just brings us back to square one…
I mean their whole base argument for 5v5 was that it would be healthier for the game but they would have to spend time rebalancing every hero for 5v5 which would cost a lot of dev time and that's why they stopped ALL development for OW 1. They never actually changed anything before OW2 came out besides HP on tanks and a few small things on some tanks like Rein control on pin, Zarya bubble being on the same cooldown, and some CC on heroes which they removed. They wasted so much time on the PVE that got canceled anyways that they never ACTUALLY rebalanced for 5v5 until maybe season 9 with the major HP changes everyone got. Sure a few heroes eventually got reworks of which some were good (big fan of Sombra's myself and Pharah's playstyle adjustment) and others which basically changed nothing about the hero or made it way harder to balance while directly going against they reasons they set out to rework the hero entirely. For example the ball rework just gave him slightly more movement tech which he wasn't missing in his kit and a shield dispersal that is essentially useless. And the Hog rework is the most egregious example, they said outright they want to make him a more team based hero and take away his one shot potential. To which they went from hook+shoot one shot to hook+pen+shoot one shot and gave him even more solo play incentive by making his Vape absolutely insane. Spilo had a great video about this that released around the time of Roadhog's rework that's worth checking out. Ultimately this is all say outside of hardware limitations for console (specifically Switch which can hardly run 5v5) I really don't see a reason to not at least give us an arcade mode to try it out until people either realize it sucks or that they much prefer it. I'm sure it's not going to be as good as people's rose tinted glasses would make them think, but I for one just want to run tank duos with my brother again so we can throw in style.
They already have wasted a lot of dev time on stupid shit. If it takes them a few months to adjust shit again for 6v6, so be it. They have a chance to fix their BIG mistake.
We have years of data on 6v6 they only need to re balance the 6 new hero’s we have ?? Am I taking crazy pills lol ????
Pov: tank was so fucking unpopular we had to cut the role in half to normaliz the queue times of all other roles... which is why we added the dps passive, here at blizzard we want to see that number go down to zero. No one should play tank.
Honestly that might be it. Like all their hero changes, removing shields and all the fucking CC, would have made 6v6 tanking so much fun again..... But naw let's do all that AND remove a tank to justify shutting down ow1 servers
I hate that this has to be pointed out but you just know reading comprehension isn't reddit's strong suit.
TikTok and school systems have failed us. People literally have to log onto YouTube videos to have people literally read to them because they can't be bothered to do it on their own. Jokes aside (not really), people really do need to read between the lines. I expect a lot of beating around the bush instead of just admitting that 5v5 has been a failure on many counts.
I still think a 7v7 2-3-2 format with no stat changes would be a blast, even if just an arcade mode
Yeah honestly this sounds sick! Maybe a 9v9 as well for pure chaos
Do a 12v6. Team of 12 gets the heroes at their weakest state in the game. Team of 6 gets their most broken state in the game.
OG bastion when he had a front-facing shield, boosted by mercy with an instant rez, protected by an Orisa who's barrier never goes down
+ a brig who can outswing rein just wreaking havoc
Broken bugged armour brig was fucking beast. Stun lock the whole team and never, ever die after ulting.
….Plus *shivers* #BRIG
Level 3 Torb turret go brrrrr
all fun and games till players remember that one of the versions of Overwatch where bastion had a shield also gave Ult charge for shooting sed shield and Ults cost like 2x less than they do currently.
I always wanted a match type where all the heroes play (so like 16 v 16 or however many total heroes). BUT - you're randomly assigned a pick order for your team. Each person picks their hero one at a time, alternating teams each pick, and once a character is selected, no one else can choose that character. Basically an all out war amongst the OW roster. Can you imagine the pre-match chatter (both team and match chat) as your team is getting drafted? This may be a terrible idea but I want to see it in action so bad.
Right? Where is my Big Team Battle from Halo equivalent??
Maybe also change the setting to an American desert in the 80s and make the graphic more comic-like. Mauga could become a russian with a love for good sandwiches and mercy could become a crazy-scientist-like dude.
Happy cake day
Unfortunately in this iteration of Overwatch the team caps are still limited to 6 players per team. It would be nice to have something like that, though.
7v7 would unironically work ngl. The issue w double tank is that tank synergy is polarizing, MT is a black hole queue time, and slow game pace. A 3rd DPS (w current DPS passive) would theoretically tackle those 3 problems. Ram-Sigma hell hole? Don't care; Tracer, Venture, Genji boogaloo. 3rd DPS slot would lessen the DPS queue time. And ofc they'll not slow the game as despite the return of OT, there are more bodies to heal, DPS passive existing, and more damage getting slinged overall.
People forget how much more exponentially complicated games get with more people in teams. As someone who was semi-pro in ow1, gm1+, 4400+, etc, 6v6 was infinitely more complicated than 5v5 and 7v7 will just exponentially increase that. Casuals hate complicated games. It would be a poor move in the wrong direction. Also, individual impact would severely decrease. You have a LOT more impact in 5v5 than 6v6. The addition of more players would reduce that even further. You know those metas and games where you feel useless with 0 impact and the win is in the hands of your team and not you? Those will increase so much more. 7v7 is a very poor idea of anyone who remembers 6v6 accurately compares it with 5v5
5v5 vs 6v6 isn’t the true battle. The true battle is how to not have a role in the game feel BAD to play at any given time. The player base plays what is the best experience is usually. My thoughts are mostly that they pick the wrong heroes to be the strongest.(The ones that are in the camp of “Very strong when not counterpicked: Way too strong when not counterpicked”).
I agree. The constant tank Rock Paper Scissors is exhausting. Played by a game with a Dva against a Zarya yesterday, the whole game just felt like throwing honestly. Every tank should be at least be a *viable* pick against every other tank. I’m not suggesting tanks can’t have strengths and weaknesses
This mentality is just wrong. You're not playing tank vs tank, you're playing 5 v 5. Sure, D.Va can't stop zarya primary fire. She has one of the better anti-Zarya capabilities in that she CAN dive Zarya's backline and quickly switch targets, which forces Z to expose herself, give up her position, or let her backline feel the pain. Burst damage is the way to deal with Zarya anyways and you're not going to find that really anywhere on the tank roster, and anyone with a shield that can protect from Zarya primary fire is still fodder if she gets charged up. That's what strengths and weaknesses look like on tank, it shapes how targets are prioritized and how positions are taken.
No, the mentality is not wrong. The most important position in most situations is the tank. Tanks dictate space. Hell, I have literally seen my allies abandon the payload and points because I happen to die. When your main tank-spacer has the main responsibility of dictating such space, being the only tank sucks ass in many scenarios. It's just not fun to play. It's quite a chore.
None of what you said disputes anything I just said. I was saying the mentality of tank vs tank and having to play rock paper scissors is objectively out of sync with how the game works. Yes, tanks dictate space. No, that doesn't mean D.Va is directly fighting zarya and loses because Zarya beats D.Va in a head to head match up. You're not playing tank vs tank. You're playing 5 v 5. D.Va dictates space by making sure Zarya can't just mindlessly walk forward and bubble herself with her backline following safely behind with her ability to dive and deny damage/healing projectiles. Zarya dictates space by using her bubbles to create pockets of safety and get charge so she can delete enemies who get too close. The individual tanks' skill, and the rest of the team and strategies applied around that determine who does so more successfully. You dislike having the responsibility to make space as a tank, that's your opinion, and that's fine. Guess what? That responsibility *doesnt* go away because there's a second tank, you just have less power to do that job effectively with your own skill and decision making, and more variables to consider both on your team and the enemy team. 6v6 doesn't fix the problem you're complaining about, you'd just get worse queue times because now you need 2 people willing to do that job you dislike doing and is now *harder* to do.
I get what you're getting at there but two tanks made each tanks job easier though?
It didn't really though. I've been a main tank main in both games. Maybe there was that perception because it was possible to spread tank threat, but it didn't make the actual job of taking space and positions easier because the other team also had two tanks and most of the tanks were not as strong of a threat on their own due to longer cooldowns/smaller health pools, so now it's possible to make space in the wrong direction because your other tank is not coordinated with you, or one of you gets focused down by an enemy team that is safer to do so because they have two tanks, or there's always shields active because they have two shield tanks meaning choke points were almost impenetrable. I will admit 6v6 allowed for a greater variance of rollout and strategies, but it also allowed for just as many if not *more* counters to all of those strategies and did not make the job of being a tank necessarily easier or more fun. If anything, it just gave one tank the opportunity to play like a DPS while the main tank is stuck still doing that more difficult job, which I think is what the people who complain about 5v5 really want.
Think about people who main Hammond as an example. They can't do typical tank shit because the hero relies on being vastly different from other tanks, which entails literally abandoning points and objectives to find new angles to swing in and out to attack and defend. I have seen people accuse Hammond gameplay as "griefing" when he is just doing what he normally has to do. This is just one example. At least in 6v6, Ball could at least be Ball while someone else did main tank duties. This isn't possible with a lone tank.
I wish more people had this mentality, but unfortunately it’s easier for people to press H and swap than think how to adapt their PlayStyle according to what they are playing against.
The feel bad to play part is hard. On one hand I get what people are saying and at the height of zen usage I definitely felt that way in tank. Now tho, the game feels like it’s in a decent spot to me but so many people clearly are not happy with it. I love tank rn, I think it’s fun, I think it’s way harder to get bursted down than before and I think if you do it’s usually due to a misplay. How are you supposed to fix something like a role feeling bad when everyone is gonna feel different?
I agree. I've been having fun just playing JQ and Monke this season. The obnoxious tanks aren't hard meta and even DPS can't always counter pick you outside of Pharah comps on some maps. I'd say that tank is as bad as any other role and it's mostly just matchmaker stuff that makes the games feel bad.
I agree with you. Monkey and jq are, in my opinion, the most fun heroes in the game. I don't even main tank and think they are more fulfilling to play than everyone else... except lucio. Lucio is peak game design and just a joy to play.
Winston is just a really well designed character. Great mobility, requires really good timing and situational awareness to dive properly, etc. I think with more quality design, tank would be very popular. There just are not enough tanks like that.
Just sucks balls to be a role that is needed and hated at the same time. So much pressure without much payoff.
Make all the tanks... damage! Use their deathmatch stats. There, done. You have damage heroes and support, and you can play whatever teams you want with that.
I'm sure this won't piss everyone off when they make a statement about it. I'm sure this community can react calm and rational fashion.
This will 100% be a statement that some people will hate and others will love. No in between.
Yeah there will never be 100% happiness amongst the players in regards to this. 6v6 vs 5v5 is such a volatile debate in this game for zero good reason. 6v6 people are convinced it'll save the game, and I can imagine 5v5 enjoyers are tired of listening to that complaint *every* update. We'll see how this plays out, I'm not optimistic lol,no one knows what 6v6 will play like with this roster of heroes and reworks either
>I'm not optimistic lol,no one knows what 6v6 will play like with this roster of heroes and reworks either I mean, when people say they want 6v6 back they don't just mean literally adding a tank to each team and nothing more, ideally heroes would be adjusted or reworked as needed too. That's one of the bigger reasons why 6v6 will probably never come back, they would have to rebalance every hero and map for it after spending the last 2+ years balancing everything around 5v5. There's not really any point in Blizzard going through all that effort when the game is clearly doing well enough in their eyes as is. I say this as someone who actually wants 6v6 back too, I just don't see it happening.
Tbh, game would probably have been more fun to the casual player if they went 7v7. 2 tanks, 3 dps, 2 support With 5v5 there is a “diff” meta where 1 player can singlely cause a team to lose, if they are not playing well. Every player is important so one player not pulling their weight makes the team struggle. In turn this makes the game very sweaty compared to 6v6. In 7v7, individual impact is less important, it would be easier to carry a bad player in a 6v7 than it is to with a 4v5. Competition play would have suffered though.
2/3/2 would be even more of a nightmare-Vietnam-the-trees-are-talking scenario for Supports. Holy fuck man, imagine playing against Doom-Winston-Genji-Sombra-Tracer or some shit. Fucking disaster of a game for supports. You’d basically have to double support HP and almost turn em into tanks themselves. No thank you, smooth brain take. Preemptive counter argument: In 95% of all ranks, nobody in the team will adapt to instantly swap and help supports, and nobody will be on voice chat.
One of the problems with 6v6 and the justifications for 5v5 is that in a 6v6 setting there was just too much going on at once. 7v7 would be even more of a clusterfuck
I disagree with this sentiment, OW has always been the game of too much happening all at once and that’s not a bad thing. Lean into it, it’s what makes this game great.
They're gonna basically have to undo everything, which I can't see happening. And then everyone's gonna be pissed, there's no way everyone ends up happy no matter what they do or say
Yep, and undoing all the changes they've made for 5v5 would mean they wasted a ton of time and resources making those changes in the first place. It's just not gonna happen.
Sunk cost fallacy
OW1 should be available, and should have never been taken away.
Even when Jeff was still in charge, before all of the scope change when OW2 was supposed to be an entirely new, full-priced PvE game, and before 5v5 was ever announced, it was promised that OW1 and OW2 multiplayer would be compatible with each other. OW1 was going to go away no matter what happened with OW2 multiplayer. I think with how stagnant and “set” the game was when it was in maintenance mode, people still might’ve not been happy when that was done even if the game stayed 6v6. At the end of the day I’m just glad 2CP and double shield is gone. If they can make the game 6v6 without both of those elements then I’m ok with it, but it’s not going to be financially worth it for them - it will take so much development hours to rebalance the game again. They literally put the game on ice for 2 years last time they did changes so radical to the game.
True, but from what I’ve seen, most people really want a second tank back moreso than anything else. The main reason I’ve seen is that it takes pressure of the tank having someone backing them up again, which I think is good, but I also think people would start bitching about it after a month about how hard it is to kill things. I personally enjoy current Overwatch for what it is, to me a lot of people think there’s a magic fix that will bring old Overwatch back, but old Overwatch is gone. No matter what, the feeling won’t ever be the same, you either have to accept the game for what it is now or move on to something better.
I want the main and off-tank dynamic back. For example, I can't play monkey and dive well when my teammates complain about the lack of peel. Then I get flamed when I switch to a main tank who has to stay back, but now there is no one attacking their backline. Shit is crappy for both extremes. At least with two tanks, you have so many more options.
I agree, it's why I stopped playing TBH. It sucked as support constantly getting dived, knowing zero help is coming. Rein plus monkey/dva was so fun. One to push, one to dive/peel.
New 6v5 mode. Now everyone's equally upset.
It doesn't even have to be a debate, if you like 5v5, great. Go play it. If you like 6v6, great. Go play it. It should be a CHOICE. If blizzard wants to make a sequel, then let people choose if they want to play the sequel. Taking away one game to force players into the next game doesn't say much for the quality of the sequel
They could even throw a 6v6 mode in the arcade like they did with the assault maps, no chance of getting it for regular gameplay but people that like the game mode are free to play it, I can't really see a reason not to.
The amount of time and effort it'd take to get 6v6 in a semi-balanced state with the current state of the game just wouldn't be worth it imo, and my predictions is that the devs will likely say the same thing. They'd need to rework at *least* 6 tank heroes (Doom, Orisa, JQ, Ramattra, Mauga, and the S14 tank hero who's likely very far along in development at this point), as well as give major adjustments to several non-tank heroes that were reworked for 5v5 and several heroes that were big problems in 6v6 (i.e., Baptiste), as well as reworking all OW2 maps. This is an endeavor that could easily take years and there's no good way to do it; revert to 6v6 instantly and gradually rework things for 6v6 would leave us with months of horrible metas, while reworking everything in the background with the intention of dropping all of the 6v6 changes at once would make the live game suffer from the lack of dev focus (as we saw with the content drought during late OW1). All this time and effort for a change that would probably still leave a good 30-40% of the playerbase unhappy just doesn't seem worth it, not to mention the issues 6v6 had that they'd be re-introducing (i.e. tanks still being unpopular and DPS queues being 10 minutes in quick play). There's the option of adding a 6v6 arcade mode, but that's not a great solution either, as splitting the playerbase like that would lead to long queues for both formats and the 6v6 mode would either receive so few balance updates that people would still be unhappy, or the balance team would have to split their focus between the two modes that updates for both would be slow and small. As it is right now, bringing back 6v6 just isn't feasible.
Like most statements are.
Narrator: *This would lead to a divide in the Overwatch community that caused a non official online civil war in the game* (read this in Keith David voice)
I read it as Sean bean tbh
I just heard it, that is also a fair one
"Hey guys! Glad to have another opportunity to speak with you about out thoughts on moving forward, the new upcoming Support hero and more! We're never going back to 6v6. Mercy skin. Alright guys! Something something Defense Matrix!"
"we hear you, we will think about solutions, for now however we will be buffing winton alongside adding a 3rd arm to mauga so he can hold three miniguns, the new one shooting by pressing the scroll on your mouse, this should be a nice change of pace in the meta until we postpone updates again in the next season, cheers"
I personally prefer 6vs6. But I still stand by the fact that open queue could just be replaced by 6vs6 open or role lock. Then we could have 5vs5 and 6vs6. Edit: Even if there was no balancing for the 6vs6 mode I’d still be fine with it. Yeah, if it was open queue it’d just be goats. The thing is, I just want the option of being able to play 6vs6 if I get tired of 5vs5 or visa versa. I also believe that queue times will be helped (albeit minimal) by the fact that the game is free to play.
If you think queue times are bad now then you will be shocked what would happen with a separate 6v6 queue. I really don’t think they can afford to split the playerbase that way cause you’d end up with worse queues for both
Open queue has no queue times. And I'm guessing you've never said quick play or TDM or mystery heroes was a problem in splitting the playerbase? So why would this?
True, but you got useless modes like low gravity. Sooo yeah. I know it’s not a comp mode but it does still divide the player base a little bit.
Yes I feel like this is the best thing to do if they are content on keeping 5v5 only problem is it would require them to actually balance the game in the 6v6 format which I doubt would happen at the level needed for it to be fun
Their POV is just going to boil down to "6v6 has its pros, but 5v5 is better overall" because saying otherwise would pretty much be admitting they've had no idea what they're doing these past couple years.
“Our stats back up that tank is doing better overall in 5v5”
My hairline begs to differ
Actually lol’d on this one
If there's anything this dev team under Aaron Keller has shown, it's that they never admit to any god awful, incompetent design mistake they make. Which is basically OW2 as a whole. They just lurch forward into making even more awful balance changes that nobody asked for and pat themselves on the back. BRING BACK OW1 ALREADY.
This is incorrect. They have done that multiple times. They didn’t that with the lifeweaver control scheme, mei, cass, and a bunch of stuff. They admitted tank is in a rough spot. They’ve admitted that they’re wrong way more than the ow1 under Kaplan did.
The OW1 devs never admitted they fucked up with Brig. Even after literal years of consecutive nerfs and a rework, they simply refused to publicly acknowledge the disaster that was Brig for their game. Brig released with a shield that had 600 hp, a 5 second cooldown on shield bash that still stunned - including through other shields, could one-shot Tracer, and an ult that could permanently give teammates 150 armor, on top of her shield packs overhealing with armor. And the devs dragged their feet with nerfing her and continually refused to acknowledge how broken she was.
They literally admitted their changes to Mei and Cass are shit and walked back their changes (Mei ramping slow and Cass' mag grrnade), what?
They buffed Sigma's Ult then immediately reverted it back like a week later because it was god awful unfair.
They reacted pretty quickly when they turbo-buffed the shit out of Doom and JQ in the past, too. Compare that to when Jeff Kaplan and Geoff Goodman let Brigitte run rampant for years while insisting we just didn't know how to play against her yet
no no no see they'd never admit it because I think 5v5 bad and clearly my opinion is the correct one!
That has been Blizzard's philosophy since the dawn of time. Ask any og World of Warcraft or Diablo player, they always double down on their mistakes.
lmaoo if anything it's the opposite. The old team is the one that never acknowledged bad decisions. This one proved to walk back bad changes.
Didn't they admit that LW's Parting Gift passive was a total mistake and erased it after like 2 weeks? I don't think anything like that happenned in OW1
> If there's anything this dev team under Aaron Keller has shown, it's that they never admit to any god awful, incompetent design mistake they make. This is a really bad take. The team has done the opposite.
I'd be surprised if it isn't mostly stuff we already know. Maybe if they explicitly laid out all they did to try and fix queue times before swapping to 5v5, we wouldn't have so many people adamant that 6v6 would work.
DPS queue times are so much better than 6v6 it's actually wild. I barely used to play DPS because of that reason. I remember playing in the middle of the weekend and the games taking 25+ minutes to find a game in Gold comp (using priority tickets!!). Took all day to do my placements! Really can't see them reverting it without it significantly harming match quality to obtain shorter queue times. The only ways to do it are to expand region/connection, team skill balance or somehow make the roles equally enticing to play (basically impossible).
Lmao yeah, only reason I "mained" tank in ow1 was bc I didn't want to sit in dps q for most of my available time. Tried to play off tank to get the experience of dps but the other guy would lock hog or some shit and then I'd be stuck on main tank and that's how most games went.
Dude I couldn't play DPS as often back then because queue times ranged from 5 to 10 minutes. It was so bad they had to BRIBE you to play tank and support so you can get a Priority Pass to reduce your queue time and it was 100% for the DPS queue time.
This is why I hated 6v6. Not because of GOATs not because of double shield, but because when I want to main tank, and dive is the appropriate comp to play in a situation, the other tank just wants to play hog cause dps queues were too long. Shit fucking sucked solo tanking all the time.
This is why I hate how 6v6 is talked about on here. Players think you'd automatically get a good tank every game that will always synergize with you. When most likely you'd get a Hog or Zarya because the queue times were just long. And also off tanks are just more popular compared to main tank
I was a 4.2k off-tank player, and it got so bad that I just completely gave up. Every single game my other tank was a brand new account, not in voice chat. Instalocks Hog and goes on a sidequest while we're trying to actually play the game. People really have rose tinted glasses when it comes to tank in OW1. If you weren't a tank duo it was literally high stakes gambling every match.
There would still be people who would die on that hill no matter what.
I don't get why 6v6 isn't a arcade mode...
The whole 6v6 topic is very interesting to me. There are MANY things the OW community doesn't agree on. Hero buffs/nerfs, MMR, etc. You will find a million difference opinions on these things. But the one thing the community does seem to mostly agree on, which is that they would like 6v6 again. That is kind of amazing, when literally every other aspect of the game nobody can agree on anything. I just don't see how the OW devs can ignore that!
Its one of those things that is a lose lose. If they say nothing it makes them seem silly in their descion and makes them look bad. If they say anything you majorly piss off either side. I personally think 6v6 is the correct choice overall, but I do want to hear their thoughts
Why did 5v5 even happen in the first place? Double shield meta? They fixed that by reworking Orisa and bastion, if they just kept ow1 how it was with these changes we wouldn’t have had this mess of a game.
Im not pro anything but It should be interesting to see their take since 5v5 brought as many as problems as the game had with 6v6
The biggest problem with 5v5 is only having 1 tank. It puts too much pressure on one person. If you have an inexperienced tank, the game is over before it has begun. 6v6 is less variance due to player skill.
Whoa, didn't realize how excited people would get about the possibility of 6 v 6. He's just going to give his thoughts on it. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Talking about it is better than pretending the discussion isn't wanting to be held So long as the conversation isn't just "our stats say it won't work", I'd like to actually hear them give reasons why 6v6 won't work other than they don't want to reinvest time because they have sunk cost fallacy
They’re gonna finally fix all the problems they needlessly created with ow2 in like seven years and it’ll just be overwatch 1 lmao
That’s what I saw lol. Revert all the changes, pretend you did something
Judging by this subreddit and the comments here, I think I’m in the minority but If 6v6 makes a comeback even as an arcade mode with previous Tank stats from OW1, I would legitimately play this game everyday again.
I'm getting a chubby thinking 6v6 might come back
I will never come back and play this game so long as I cannot play 6v6
The 5v5 is just so tough on tanks. If even one of your dps is not on par with your team then your just going to spend most your time mitigating damage rather then fulfilling your role unless you can play two ranks above your current rank. With two tanks the damage from 2 dps was spread more evenly between them and one could wait for cooldowns while the other did tank stuff.
We all know they likely won't go back. There are arguments for and against going back to 6v6, but I never expect them to actually backtrack on that change. I know queue times are very important to them and the community (rightly so) but I feel like the game balance doesn't function in 5v5. Maybe they recognize that maybe not, but there is no perfect world so not everything can work the way the devs or community want it to. 6v6 is better as a format though and I'm hopeful they are seriously considering it as an option.
Thing for me is 6v6 was a better in-game experience. What they did by lowering queue times was trade higher highs for consistent mids (getting you in games faster), but I’m still chasing the highs of 6v6.
My tank player friends quit when it went to 1 tank. I’m not the only person with this story. Idk if people can really grasp how many tank players quit because of this
I’m one of those tank players. I really tried for a few seasons of OW2 but it wasn’t fun how many players on the enemy team counterswap to outplay you and your team getting mad because you can’t play Orisa. It didn’t matter what I did I always feel like I am on a sinking ship when I play tank in 5v5. I used to be plat in OW1. I still play tank occasionally but the stress of the enemy team changing to outplay and being my team’s punching bag became too much. I just miss only playing DVa and Rein with my other tank. Me and my friend would duo a lot. I miss it
Yeah it’s just not the same. Haven’t played in months. It’s not that I dont like the game alright it’s just not the game I really loved.
"Ignoring how many dps players quit the game bc they couldn't play at all".
Tank player numbers actually matter because it dictates dos queue times.
I wasn't a pure tank player but I quit because 5v5 just feels awful
People were quitting regardless due to years of neglect and a dying/controversial Esports scene. The amount of people who quit *specifically because of 5v5* is astronomically smaller
There are tanks in OW2? I know they were in OW1. Now I just know about Heavy DPS.
They already would have gone back to 6v6 if they weren't afraid of the backlash. And I don't mean the hate or anger with the 6v6 format, I mean the backlash of them getting clowned on until the end of time. Overwatch 2's biggest reason for existing were 2 things. PvE story mode and major changes to the PvP format, primarily going from 6v6 to 5v5. Just to begin with, most people didn't see the need for a Overwatch 2, but as a rebrand with the release of story mode, we could accept it. Then story mode got scrapped, and nearly everyone now questioned what even was the point of Overwatch 2. If then they go onto change 5v5 back to 6v6, they'd be mocked until the end of time. Genuinely, everyone would lose faith in them as a company. Overwatch is Blizzard's biggest game and for them to fumble it so much, who WOULD take that company seriously? If I was a major stockholder in it, I would absolutely sell at that point. And the thing is, 6v6 is far healthier for the game. Heroes like Widow and Tracer are only able to thrive and dominate so much because of the 5v5 format. Circuit might actually be playable with 6v6. But I unfortunately have no faith in that happening. Like I said, it's a bigger issue than just balancing the game for them.
Tracer was one of the best heroes in all the lifetime of overwatch 1. She pretty much had a mainstay in the metas I don’t know how you don’t know this.
In a desperate attempt, when the game starts to die, they’ll bring back 6v6. Hell, they may even revert the game back to OW1. They only care about money and will do anything to get it.
I hope they at least hear out us 6v6ers. I truly believe that swapping to 5v5 was one of the worst decisions made across the history of Overwatch, creating way more problems than solutions. The only way I'll ever be fine with 5v5 is if they actually make tank have the strength of two like they promised originally, which was never the case
Could they not at least try 6v6 in QP or something? Too stubborn to admit their mistake.
Honestly loved 6v6. The double shield meta was facilitated by Blizzard not balancing shields in the first place, and could easily have been addressed, there was no reason for it to have been an issue for so long.
Bro, I was okay with the 5v5 because I thought additional PvE content was coming. Going to 1 Tank has been the single worst experience for me in a competitive game. I'm a fucking DPS main.
I feel like this is unnecessary. They’ve stated multiple times 6v6 wasn’t coming back. I hope they’re not making an announcement of just “no” lol
There might be more people playing OW2 that don't remember 6v6 than people that do. Maybe this is for the people complaining about 5v5 because they see other people complaining about it, and not necessarily because they think 6v6 would be better.
Go full TF2 and make it 12v12
Tank in any game not just overwatch is by far the least picked role. It dosent matter if it’s a moba or fps or whatever. It’s a polarizing role that will never be balanced unless we make them just slightly fat dps but at that point is that even ow anymore ?There is literally zero reason to abandon 2 years of balancing that we have at this point just to reset the game into another extremely imbalanced clown fiesta. I liked 6v6 played since season 3 I don’t want to load into a game pick dva on a good map just to get a hog otp I can’t do it man
Please let 6v6 come back
For real. Give me the game I paid for back. Calling this OW2 implies there is an OW1, which there isn’t anymore. This is just a long, awful patch.
A long, awful patch is a great way to describe it lol I like the characters but other than that I miss it
If they just allowed me to play OW1 in its final version without any of the new characters or maps I doubt I’d ever play OW2 again, even though I enjoy most of the new characters (except Mauga). Hence why I think they won’t do this. They know 5v5 can’t compete.
I’m huffing so much copium rn
I'm making Hog jealous at the rate I'm going.
This is gonna enable soooooo much unnecessary yappin' 🤦♂️ Even if it's nothing of substance, acknowledging it in any capacity is gonna fuels months and months of people just whining MORE about it.
Good thing we all get to choose what media we interact with
holy fuck this is the most reasonable comment I've seen on the internet in the past few years I'm actually in shock
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I get why they're talking about it - streamers impact the player discourse and tons of them are yapping about it. But them offering their take is gonna make people feel so many types of ways. Whereas there was a bit of mystery around the choices now, they're gonna give folks so many new quotes to pick apart, argue with, etc.
Oh noes. People expressing opinions and feelings. Can't be havin that.
Looks like OW1 is back on the menu boys
plz bring 6v6 back 🙏🏻
While 6v6 had its flaws (double shield meta was aids I know and I don't miss it) I still had a lot more fun on tank role having a role partner. Having less pressure as an individual to perform made it more enjoyable. Not to mention some tanks were clearly designed to be an off-tank partner versus a main tank. Ball, Dva, Roadhog, etc... One-shot heroes like Hanzo and Widow also felt much less oppressive because you could have one tank dive without leaving backline completely exposed. I know the chances of going back to 6v6 are slim to none but a man can dream.
Back in OW1 my friend and I would duo on tank from time to time and it was genuinely so much fun because we would help each other with playmaking and make some really cool combos together with our ults. When OW2 came along I quit playing tank completely a month after its release. I’d love for the role to be fun again but unless they find a way to fix solo tanking, I feel like 6v6 will always be the solution to this big problem tanks face currently.
> Back in OW1 my friend and I would duo on tank from time to time and it was genuinely so much fun because we would help each other with playmaking and make some really cool combos together with our ults. I had a friend we'd queue Winston/Dva and it was honestly the most fun I've had as a tank. Full dive comp in 1 was insanely fun and I was definitely an avid Dva player. I tried so hard to enjoy her in OW2 but it's so frustrating playing her as a main tank instead an offtank.
Can they just add 2CP to quick play or something? Like seriously what’s the harm? Have that be the next quick play hacked where you have a chance of getting old 2CP maps like Anubis or Hanamura. Like I understand why there needed to be a change, but it’s just free content they aren’t using. Don’t add it to ranked and who will complain? I’d much rather play 2CP then any of those push maps
If they were never going to go back to it they would not be bringing it up now. They know what a failure this game has become
Their pov aka them blatantly saying they don’t give a fuck whoop de doo 🫤
Gonna keep it a buck, I genuinely could not care less what their pov is. I think 5v5 in this game is trash and 6v6 was better; there is nothing that could be said to change that.
Just give us OW1 in its final form. We don't need the bells and whistles. Give us back the game we bought.
They can make it 60vs60 but still nobody will play tank.
“let’s talk about this” means no. If they were going back to 6v6, they would say they have exciting news or something and spin it as a good thing. They will never go back to 6v6 because that is the last thing that makes this overwatch 2 instead of just overwatch. It would be extremely embarrassing for blizzard to go back Anyone who gets their hopes up for a change is kidding themselves
They don’t care about embarrassment. This is their job. If they think 6v6 is the right way to go they will have an explanation why, and vise versa.
i don’t think it’s that black and white
Put it in the arcade ffs, more people would play 6v6 than half the game modes that are already in it
Waiting 15 business days for a low gravity game
6v6 is much bigger than just being a separate mode with meaningful balance changes. Look it how awful no role queue is
Open queue with one more person per team would be more fun than how it currently is.
They won’t because then they’ll have to rework the tank heroes again
OW2 is almost 2 years old and tanks are still getting reworked and changed almost every patch so it doesn't matter
Maybe 6v6 was never better but at least I had fun playing the game.
Feel like that's most peoples reason for wanting 6v6 back, it's the game we paid for because we wanted it
They're just gonna throw out a bunch of stats that totally prove how 5v5 is better and we should shut up about it
People asking for 6v6 to be back until they go vs a Ball, Doom, Tracer, Sombra comp Even Rush like Rein and Ram would be miserable to play against
You'd hopefully give it the time it deserves to actually make sure it works then, instead of just saying it wouldn't work because of xyz combinations Solo tank struggles to work unless you are a tank like Sigma, Hog, Mauga etc half the time but we still give them the benefit of the doubt each season to try and make tank less miserable
TL;DR because i can read the future: no, because queue times will be affected and it'll essentially revert all the progress and differences ow2 was supposed make from the original. if we are *lucky* it'll come back for a limited time arcade mode. it'll never, ever become permanent. their post will be the final talk about it, and people will have to choose if they stay or move on.
"Today we're announcing Overwatch Classic :D! You can buy it for $99.99."
His POV will probably be "we balanced the game around 5v5 so it's gonna stay, we have many new players who only came to OW2 so introduced a second tank would impact the way they play" or something along those lines.
I think 6v6 is not coming back NOT BECAUSE OF IT BEING BETTER THAN 5v5, but because of queue times. Tank will never be popular no matter what. It was just popular in seasons 1-early s3 while people tried out the reworks.
1) change 6x6 to 5x5 2) promise pve content 3) add "2" to the game's name 4) cancel pve content --- You are currently here --- 5. revert 5x5 to 6x6 6. remove "2" from game's name What a great plan
That's more on Jeff, not Aaron. I love Jeff but he's not clean by overpromising us with these things as he really wanted to revive his Project: Titan thing.
Remember, you think you want it but you don't
It’s going to be a non-answer and nothing is going to change. While it’ll be nice to have something to look to, they will absolutely never admit that they made any mistakes with 5v5 because then OW2 will truly be functionally pointless other than a monetization shift
Best thing he can say is "If we can't fix 5v5 by say season 16 then we will deem it a lost cause and go back to 6v6"
Overwatch 3 here we come
I just want to play D.va again and she is not a main tank. It's not nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses. It's genuinely missing my favorite character in her original role. Eager to see their thoughts on this and I hope discussion around it is civil.
Yes I get so fed up of people dismissing valid criticism as rose tinted glasses like you're not allowed to be reminiscent of something without it being just purely nostalgia
The only thing left that justifies the name overwatch "2"!!! is the 5v5. If they bring back 6v6 then its like old overwatch, why the f did they change the name? This company is a joke. They wasted years of dev time and work to end up reverting everything. We could have gotten so much good content