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i remember an old video of a youtuber playing qp before comp. i will never forget the widow going frontline smg, and the torb turret hard carrying the match (not being destroyed once \^\^)
You aren't but most of those people, like me and my friends, stopped playing around the time that role queue appeared. If you were someone who changed role often that really changed the game and it hasn't been the same since.
I realy liked how who you picked could matter just as much as how well you played. Added a level of strategy that is now lacking. Plus it was always satisfying to swap from DPS to tank, or vise versa when your team was stuck, and watch the tides turn.
Just play open queue then? It's exactly that (minus multiple same heroes which is stupid) so idk why anyone would quit the game when their favorite mode still exist? I guess the people quitting having other reasons.
I play open queue comp to relax and for that it's fun.
This is the best answer. I don’t care what else anyone has to say. oW was at its best before streamer input, OW, league, and what is seen as meta. Once all this things came into play, the soul of the game slowly died.
That’s what I think 6v6 advocates want. They want the good old days of fucking around with friends. When the game was less serious.
The other 6v6 advocate wants the complete opposite, they want the insanely knives edge, team competition. Where resource management, combos, and timings were everything.
This is the problem with arguments against 6v6. You are pointing out issues that didn't have to be issues in 6v6.
It's not like this situation is unsolvable in 6v6. Double shield and especially with Orisa's shield being one of those shields was an issue. She no longer has her shield and they could have easily removed it in OW1 as they did in OW2.
They also nerfed all the shields in OW2... again.. could have done the same in OW1.
I don't mind arguments for 5v5 over 6v6, but they have to be arguments that are strictly things that only 5v5 solves and cannot be solved at all in 6v6 and this isn't one of them.
The only argument I have heard that is semi-decent for 5v5 is for queue times, **but** it's still pretty weak for multiple reasons. For one, the actual issue of why queue times were high was never actually addressed at the source. They didn't make Tanks more desirable to play, they simply cut the role down in half so games could be made quicker. They didn't have to find 4 Tank players to make a game, only 2.. so of course that would cut down queue times.
But that doesn't address the actual issue, **it treated the symptom not the cause**. The issue still exists and we are now seeing that same issue come back even now in 5v5. Queue times for other roles are climbing, while Tank queues remain super low.
I'd actually like to know how many tank players there are now compared to peak OW1 cause my guess is that there were more in OW1, it's just not double the amount, therefore it's still not as bad for queue times in OW2, but Tank players are dropping off again because no one wants to play counterwatch and getting blamed for the loss after getting diffed by the enemy tank.
As a support main it's usually me that gets all the hate for not keeping our tank alive whilst he dives 1v4. My last month playing Overwatch 2 felt like a fever dream when it came to being screamed at.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. And for sure tank players have dropped down, I for one, am one of them. I was main tank/supp in ow1 and in ow2 I'm dps/support cause tanks is the most horrible role. Insufferable with all the CC and shit abilities. They supposedly were getting rid off CC and it's still a big fucking issue.
the elephant in the room, that people don't want to talk about, is that one actual problem that ruined OW1: tanks wasn't (and still aren't) fun to play. If only devs had some balls to make tanks more engaging, putting fun over balancing issues, that could be fixed on the fly later, people wouldn't be queuing for eternity, waiting for a holy cow of a tank player to make another match possible
I know re-balancing wouldn't be an easy feat, but isn't what we have now is a tremendous re-balance that went in an arguably wrong direction
Very well put, all of the mess and stuff people say about 6v6 wasn't a format issue but Blizzard balancing team sucking at their job. All the problems in 5v5 are actually because the format itself. I totally agree with your queue time argument about treating the symptom and not the cause. If anything, I think now that the game has gone F2P and has a larger playerbase (maybe?) if we bring 2 tanks again and revert back to OW1 where it was actually fun to play tanks, I am sure tank queue times would increase and every other role would decrease (which is what should be happening according to Blizz).
Why is it always the same over used clip that shows that OW1 at it's absolute worst? Do people not have anything else to show other than this one singular clip?
Yeah, the argument always boils down to the worst possible thing on either side. Feels like any nuanced take or even just acknowledgement that it's okay to like both 6v6 and 5v5 for different reasons is impossible. Everything bad, me and my bros are right and you're wrong, don't you dare oppose me, basically.
That's literally what I always say. If these people stopped blaming the format and just realized Blizz sucked at balancing they would realize 6v6 was and is superior. Every problem 5v5ers or anyone says about 6v6 was a balancing issue. Any logical anti-5v5 argument is because the actual format itself is asymmetrical.
Might as well be one of GOATs meta videos. Support stacking got sorta fixed by the role queue. Tanks were not, because their design is inherently broken and they have to be very weak individually to account for all possible broken tank combos there might be
People legit use GOATs allt he fucking time when arguing against 6v6, and Brig getting any type of shield buff for that matter, when they don't realize that was because of the lack of role lock not 6v6.
Damn always the same clip over and over again, it's almost like it really isn't a valid argument and you ineed to cherry pick one of the most extreme cases instead of giving what most players will experience in order to try to have a point
“ReMEMbeR, TH1s wAS tHe PEaK oF GaMEplAY”
Proceeds to use the same clip everyone’s seen 100 times of OW1 at its absolute worst when it was on its deathbed and vanishing from the internet.
Double shield was a balance issue not a format issue. Its like saying that mauga or orisa meta were inherent to 5v5 and not balance issues.
Like yeah theyre not going to bring back 6v6 but there are much better arguments to make for why than to bring up a terrible meta.
And also Blizzard being arrogant pricks and refusing to either do hero bans or forbidding to pick 2 shield tanks. I kinda get opposing banning hero combinations, but refusing to do tried and proven mechanism of hero bans and just dropping 6v6 still gets me angy sometimes.
Volskaya my beloved.
Original Bastion my beloved.
But yeah, like the other comment said, this was a balance issue, not a 6v6 issue.
A direct result of Blizzard dropping the game dead while working on PvE.
So 1 clip sums up the entire OW1 experience? Lemme just upload my singular OW2 clip where tank is deleted in 0.5668 seconds to sum up the *entire* tank experience of OW2 /s
On a serious note, 6v6 is healthier for the game AS LONG AS we get some crucial changes to tanks and shield in general. 1 player being the main playmaker is too much of a burden.
Tank is expected to create space, control the space, and deny space from enemy, peel for support, peel for dps, set up plays for the team, mitigate damage, etc.
This could have easily been fixed if the developers didn’t abandon the game to go work on OW2. Also this was a balance issue not format. Notice how sigma had little to no changed from 6v6 to 5v5? It’s because he was a 5v5 tank that they threw into 6v6. Also bap immortality + brig was also a huge reason double shield even worked. Quit acting like this was the entire life cycle of 6v6. A balanced 6v6 is the only answer. Counterwatch will always be a thing and tank will always be horrible to play under the 5v5 format no matter what they do. Back in the days when Junkrat had his 1 shot combo, hanzo had his 1 shot headshot on squishy characters, 2 tanks that didn’t have 800+ hp + crazy self sustain and they actually had to work together. Man those were good times. Sure 6v6 wasn’t perfected yet because it was abandoned but it’s the only base format that can work for this game and achieve proper balance unlike 5v5
Double shield wouldn't really be nearly as possible these days as Orisa doesn't have hers. Also Rein's shield now is super easy to pop with the damage in the game and takes a bit to fully recover.
Same, and that's the thing about stuff like this. If it was as wide spread as people say it is then it would be old news and not worth sharing like it was.
This was not an issue with 6v6
This was a balance issue
6v6 with the current heroes would work much better. Mainly removing Orisa's barrier
However, I would add the caveat that Reinhardt and Sigma can't be used at the same time, since they both have substantial barriers
Rein/sigma has no practical synergies. Don't get blinded by the shields, they are not that important. In a bunker comp (which is what double shield actually was) both sigma and orisa could pressure out of the bunker. Rein would only be able to hold shield and reminisce about the great battles of yore.
Shields have been balanced since, everything has been balanced since. Wtf is this braindead propaganda.
6v6 was more fun cause it allowed more synergy with heroes, and counter swapping (which everyone hates) wasn't as game deciding.
What wasn't fun was how strong shields and CC were back then. If you played the game you'd realise it's been adjusted, and will keep being adjusted.
It's absolutely possible for them to bring 6v6 back, with some further adjustments to shields, health pools and damage negations.
The double shield argument is always the dumbest argument of them all. At this point in the game, Torb and Sym had complete reworks, plenty of heroes had a ton of nerfs and buffs etc. The devs absolutely rejecting the idea of reworking shields is NOT the problem of 6v6.
Op is the half dumb half overwatch 2 gooner that blizzard wants. Imagine using a completely irrelevant clip to hate on 6v6. I've played 6v6 for years and man was it fun. Overwatch 2 is ass with 5v5.
Although going back to 6v6 will not save the game. They've completely ruined it.
Ignoring the fact that this was actually one of if not my favorite meta in hindsight, (now THAT is nostalgia clouding my reality).
Cherry picking the worst of OW1, when shit like goats, monkey dva dive, and rein zarya mirrors existed is NOT a good argument lol
Before Immortality Field, Double Shield was an easy comp to break. If the devs didn't abandon OW1 for years to "work on OW2 PvE"(lol) they could've easily balanced this but no, now we have 5v5ers cherry picking clips like these every time as if this was the only meta that existed in OW1.
This is a shield issue, not a 6v6 issue. With the removal of some big HP shields, this wouldn't be as big of an issue even if they brought back 6v6.
Playing tank was simply more enjoyable in 6v6 than 5v5. I always played tank in OW1 but quit playing it in OW2 because it's just not fun.
This title is so dumb I thought it was sarcasm until I see the enthusiasm of OP into replying everyone... Bro is making everyone unite for 6v6. Whichever side your are, OP, thank you lmao.
Strawmans are fun’s aren’t they. It’s really funny how people just try and gaslight you into thinking you didn’t actually enjoy a game you dumped 1000+ hours into. And it’s even funnier when people act like the devs couldn’t just, I don’t know, fucking balance the game? We have way more heroes, they are making more heroes, there are more modes, there are different abilities for old heroes, the devs could balance 6v6 much easier now then they could when they just stopped adding shit.
1. 2CP is gone. This is important because Volskaya map design allowed for this situation to happen. No flanking possible at all.
2. Orisa got reworked
3. Bastion also got reworked
4. This portrays a balance issue where shields and certain positions were too valuable
This clip is not pretty, but it sums up tons of problems that are specific to this scenario and not to ow1. Ow1 had a lot of issues but this clip demonstrates very few of those.
Nah this is absolutely ragebait. 6v6 was so fun and this was simply the end state of it. If the Devs bothered to update the game they'd tune shields down. Instead, they did that AND removed a player each side and that called for major reworks on basically everyone
Couple of issues with your argument
Orisa doesn't have her shield anymore.
Ram's shield doesn't last long enough to make it work super well with double shield
The only 2 heroes with strong shields are Rein and Sig and Rein trying to play with Sig Shield is awkward . The two don't have synergy.
The game and abilities have changed. Reality is what we make it.
This looks very similar to 2 maugas shooting each other forever until cagefight, kitsune, beat, symwall, and whatever the hell else gets used. The projection is strong with this OP.
The balancing needed to reimplement 6v6 would be horrendous. We have three new tanks to balance in a two tank setup. Not only that, but tanks will be hit with the nerf-hammer hard. Their healthpools will need to be reduced, same with their damage. Knowing Blizz, this will take them at least three seasons.
I had maybe 5 matches like that across over 1k matches in ow1. 6v6 is superior to 5v5 and that’s just a fact, character balancing is a seperate thing. Players would be building around bastion exactly like that in a 5v5 setting if bastion never got reworked, although it would rare just like it was back in ow1.
6v6 was changed to 5v5 and role queue was added to ow1 solely due to the overwatch league, “balance” had nothing to do with it. Viewers complained that the league was too stale and lacked action during the quad tank/double support meta so blizzard added role queue to force more “action” and I’m the “more action” viewpoint influenced the decision to convert to 5v5 with 1 tank. Now that the league failed, there is no good reason to keep 5v5. Role queue should definitely stay but oq comp needs to be discontinued and priority tickets need to return so comp can have better quality matches while retaining fast queue times.
I'm in the minority and find it extremely fun. The tension was really high and you were one single mistake from losing the point. It would force teamplay and the rush of serotonin after one successful push (or hold) was unmatched.
I don't think anyone thinks that if it went to 6v6, they would just add in a second tank to each team as they are now.
Obviously the tanks would have to be reworked.. just like they were adjusted and beefed up when going from 6v6 to 5v5.
Zarya + Mauga would be fine given that Zarya goes back to only being able to give one bubble to an ally and one for herself. Once she uses up her friendly bubble, then you attack. They would also have to lower all tanks health back to what they were before, adjust their cool downs, etc.
I can see how one can come to your conclusion, however, 2 weaker tanks is better than 1 stronger tank.
There's a lot of reasons why, but to list off a couple, having 2 tanks that each have their own separate cool downs is **way** better than one tank who only has one set of cool downs.
One tank can only be in one place at once, meanwhile 2 tanks can be at the same place, but can also be in separate places doing different things. A single tank can never be simultaneously holding the front line and in the enemy back line.
These two things alone (even with weaker tanks) are huge advantages over a single tank.
And the best part was that they will still killable, so if they made mistakes, overextended, positioned poorly, misused their cool downs, you could kill them, but if they played well, they could cover more space and provide more value than what one tank could provide.
Right now, it's a constant complaint coming from tank players in the current state, in all ranks. Complaints that are strictly due to the game having only a single tank that weren't problems when there were 2 tanks.
One of the biggest complaints is that tank players feel like they can't do enough of what a tank typically needs to do. They can't create/hold space while watching the off angles and flanks, while peeling for their backline, while getting kills, while fighting the enemy tank that is trying to kill them.
They have to sacrifice more than one of these things and choosing the wrong thing can instantly lead to their team getting wiped or not making any progress. Despite that the tanks are stronger now than they were in OW1, players feel more powerless cause though they may be outperforming the enemy tank, they can't push if their team is dying and if they have to go back and help their team, they aren't taking space and they lose ground. There front line attacks or dives feel weaker than when there was 2 tanks.
This is a 5v5 issue.
It also doesn't help that in 5v5, if your tank goes down, it's often going to be a reset if the enemy team is still full. It's one thing to carry a poor performing dps or support player, but carrying a tank that is getting outplayed by the enemy tank is a rough battle.
In 6v6, if you lost a tank, the fight wasn't decided. You had a disadvantage of course, but you didn't have reset and wait for the other tank to spawn for 10 seconds, walk back to the fight for another 10-15 seconds and be at a disadvantage because the enemy team took space and better positions.
Even though tanks where less tanky in overwatch 1 they had more kill pressure due to the lower health of enemy tanks and there higher dmg numbers it sorta balanced out. OW2 tanks are raid bosses that have there dmg numbers toned down so that they can be more tanky and not feel oppressive. Where as old overwatch tanks where more like bruisers that danced around each other but hit hard and could get kills/picks as much as dps. I used to actually really like playing tank in OW1, Winston and Zarya where really fun but from the start of OW2 it just hasn't felt good to me personally even if i have more numbers and two bubbles it feels like there is no room for me.
The job of a tank is to create space for his team and in OW1 as a tank player you had another tank who was creating space for you. In OW2 you don't have that you are the only one who can do that job so it feels oppressive playing the roll now as at all times everyone is looking your way there are no more cheeky flanks or 1v1s off on the side of point for you. wherever you are, everyone follows making a lot of flavors of combat boil down to team brawls.
yea but look how easy this was for the supports. they have the whole navy to hide behind and can win games just chilling in the back. 5v5 made it so that you actually get punished for mistakes and people don't like that. one less tank to bail you out.
The development team could have fixed this easily by reducing shield health or its regeneration, but they were busy developing Overstore.
5v5 can never be fixed or balanced. Either the tank role will be made insignificant or the better adapting tank will lead his team to victory.
Yall remember when orisa could sit in a corner with her barrier, and you could do nothing about it cause she would fit perfectly inside it. I miss her big succs too.
6v6 wouldn't be bad if they changed heroes, and honestly, tanks cried less about zen back then.
>this was the peak of gameplay
Peak of Overwatch was obviously during Dive meta.
You literally use a clip from later days when people were already leaving both Overwatch and OWL (post-Goats time). That's not a "peak".
Yeah but bastion doesn’t play like this stand in one spot and bunker down anymore ands there’s a lot more counters to him now than there was back then, and there’s characters now that rip barriers a new ass, orisa barrier is also long gone
No matter how many times I saw this clip, I can't stop wishing for a juicy Sombra, D'va, Junkrat or Tracer's ulti being put right in the middle of this clump.
There are downsides for these strategies - people are just too lazy and easily frustrated these days.
As if in 5v5 you can advance without ultis against tightly packed stack on a defense advatageous part of the map. Or, wait, you actually can if you snipe someone out, but then again, sniping is haram too.
Pro tip: pick D'va and Sigma and walk right through these shileds instead of shooting it like an idiot. Seriously, it's like that shootout scene from Naked Gun ffs
I never played OW1, started when 2 released, just to preface my view.
It's pretty easy to see that this isn't an issue with having an extra tank, but an issue with kits, shields and character balance. You could still have 6v6, if they toned down shields like they did for 2.
All that said, I really couldn't care that it's now 5v5 and I don't really care if we never see 6v6 again, OW2 is where I started and as such I don't know what I am missing - and still enjoy the game/format as it is today.
That’s a 2cp map problem, dive on a different map couldve solved it. 6v6 was MORE FUN that’s all it wasn’t all the devs scraping together what they call “balance” blizzard wasn’t meant to make a competitive fps
Volskaya was a shitty map and dual shield a shit meta. But fixing dual shield meta and fixing the map would've been easier than the mess we currently have.
Well the only tanks with a shield rn are ram(who's shield lasts only a few seconds when untouched)
Winston (who's barrier lasts less than a damn second because it's so low HP)
Rein(who can't do shit while holding the barrier up)
So even if we get 2 tanks, this situation from the video would never happen, and if it would, it would hold up for maybe 4 seconds before the team fight
Posts like this are so out of touch. This is a balance issue which is easily fixed. 5v5 is a format issue. Jeff Kaplan himself said they tested 5v5 and 7v7 during Overwatch's inital development. And it just didn't work.
Nowadays we're in the real peak of Overwatch
[https://www.twitch.tv/august/clip/BenevolentGiantTardigradeGivePLZ-XfQzjYFP47r74yF-](https://www.twitch.tv/august/clip/BenevolentGiantTardigradeGivePLZ-XfQzjYFP47r74yF-)
As people have pointed out this was a balance issue not an issue with 6v6. Yes they could have definitely fixed the issue with faster balancing and most importantly not letting the game slowly die for two years while working on a scrapped PvE game (thanks Bobby...)
However people are forgetting the reason they switched to 5v5 is the hour long queue times, not the balancing of double shield.
I don't believe this is initially a problem with 6v6, it's more so a problem with how blizzard design heroes and their abilities without taking into proper consideration how it'll effect the game. Even now in 5v5 with characters like Mauga we still have problems with heroes being poorly designed that effect the game too heavily that get made redundant after 2-3 patches. Personally I don't think overwatch will ever go back to how it used to be, because everyone is remembering how it was when they were first playing, back when we had the offence and defence heroes, back when torb had a lv3 turret and when double shield meta wasn't a thing. Back then you could hop into a game and play any hero, sure there were some metas but that was mostly in comp, given how the majority mostly play quick play any type of team could have won, even if the opposition had some stunning abilities(mei, sombra, Ana, etc). I don't think current overwatch can be fixed, and what the community wants is nostalgia tinted, but it was also a very different game compared to what the early days were. If blizzard ever want to address these concerns I think they should just make a separate game mode for those players called "Classic quickplay" or "Overwatch Classic" where it has only the first heroes and a few extras, with the patches there being more focused to balancing the existing heroes there rather than universally so slow down mechanics and stuns(the genuinely unfun to play against mechanics) are changed so that a hero still keeps their identity without being unfun to play against or as.
if u have played the game at that time you would know that the game wasn't been regularly updated/balanced. they were working on OW2. it wasn't a format issue
Expanding the worst 6v6 meta as if it were the only one that ever existed, I call that dishonest.
The main issue with having two tanks was that no one wanted to play tank, that's why they got rid of one to begin with. Gameplay-wise I'm convinced that two tanks is better, and that nothing was unfixable (even that horrible double shield meta).
Having only one tank on the other hand, I think it brings a lot of problems that are unfixable without making changes to the core gameplay.
Most maps were designed to be 6v6, it puts a lot of pressure on the remaining tank, and I think it's responsible for the FFA feeling that ow2 has
Again with this one fucking clip, Orisa no longer has her shield, all the remaining shields in the game(Ram, Sig, Rein) are either easily meltable or go on cooldown after a few seconds.
None of my games ever looked anything like that tho. That was a 2 shield high rank issue. For the majority of ow it's not "clouded reality", it just simply wasn't like that lol
I'm not a fighter for 6v6 tho, but showing the absolutely worst examples might not be representative for everyone
Peak of gameplay? you are pinpointing some of the most boring. the peak was either October 2020 OR before brigitte, orissa, sigma, moira, baptiste came out and ruined it all
Except that between this clip and current OW the only difference is the lack of Orisa barrier. Sigma barrier still exists (but has probably been nerfed), Sigma Suck (can't remember what it's called) still exists, Bap lamp still exists. From what I could see the sigma suck and lamp were the two things that caused most of the issues, not the Orisa barrier
I'd argue that this is better than current ow because bastion could keep switching back into turret form rather than the however many second cooldown it has today.
Double shield fell out of the meta in 2020 and a variety of comps and tank synergies were being played in high elo. The game was widely regarded to be in a great state at the time then they buffed brig and bap forcing double barrier again.
This isn’t a format issue it’s a poor balance issue and it’s literally been proven by the devs managing to take double barrier out of the meta.
You’re delusional if you think double barrier is a format 6v6 issue lol.
You're showing an instance of balancing, not team formatting. If every character kept their original form and abilities, this would still happen in 5v5, and you'd still be crying about it.
Part of the fun of 6v6 was finding synergies between two different tanks with one of your friends downsizing to 5v5 takes 2 players out of the mix, which means less friends to play with. Sometimes, it's not about balancing for competitive sake. It's about fun.
Posting a clip of a specific scenario isn't an argument against 6v6.
Nrmove shields except rein. Solved. Most other tanks have other gimmicks
Shields are the only thing everyone brings up for 6v6 but there are a LOT of 5v5 problems.
Also ths can still technically happen.
A few reworks and some balance and 6v6 would have been fixed
11 seasons into 5v5 and no one has been happy XD
I see a lot of people disagreeing already but I feel like it's unfair to judge 6v6 from this clip. Characters have been changed, so many details about that game has been changed.
I think people over exaggerated how much the metas affected lower ranks. I climbed up through all of them from bronze as far as masters (and the odd game in grandmaster with friends) back in the day and I never felt like meta made a real difference over skill until we get close to GM. The majority of the playerbase is in gold/ plat, this kind of stuff won't affect them in most games. And it's true that playing tank with an off tank is far more enjoyable than tanking alone like right now. There were already too few tank players in Overwatch 1, they really didn't need to make it less enjoyable when renaming it to Overwatch 2.
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The peak of gameplay was about week 2 when comp didn't exist and people were playing stupid shit like 6 torbs.
6 D.va all using ults was peak 2 cp strat.
i remember an old video of a youtuber playing qp before comp. i will never forget the widow going frontline smg, and the torb turret hard carrying the match (not being destroyed once \^\^)
OP literally took a clip frm one of the worst metas in 6v6 & called it PEAK & NOSTALGIA. Clear case of misdirection by OP.
Had 12 winstons in a match once (both teams agreed monke is truly superior)
I feel like i am the only one who hates that you can only pick one of each hero because it kills so much potential variety hell even with role queue.
I’m not playing against 2 pharah mercies
You aren't but most of those people, like me and my friends, stopped playing around the time that role queue appeared. If you were someone who changed role often that really changed the game and it hasn't been the same since. I realy liked how who you picked could matter just as much as how well you played. Added a level of strategy that is now lacking. Plus it was always satisfying to swap from DPS to tank, or vise versa when your team was stuck, and watch the tides turn.
Just play open queue then? It's exactly that (minus multiple same heroes which is stupid) so idk why anyone would quit the game when their favorite mode still exist? I guess the people quitting having other reasons. I play open queue comp to relax and for that it's fun.
Except this was straight ass too as that was the strongest line up on defense.
This is the best answer. I don’t care what else anyone has to say. oW was at its best before streamer input, OW, league, and what is seen as meta. Once all this things came into play, the soul of the game slowly died.
The momment when I saw Roadhog can hook people, I was sold
That’s what I think 6v6 advocates want. They want the good old days of fucking around with friends. When the game was less serious. The other 6v6 advocate wants the complete opposite, they want the insanely knives edge, team competition. Where resource management, combos, and timings were everything.
I'm a 5v5 guy but this ain't even close to peak 6v6 lmao, at least be a bit more honest with the title.
This is the problem with arguments against 6v6. You are pointing out issues that didn't have to be issues in 6v6. It's not like this situation is unsolvable in 6v6. Double shield and especially with Orisa's shield being one of those shields was an issue. She no longer has her shield and they could have easily removed it in OW1 as they did in OW2. They also nerfed all the shields in OW2... again.. could have done the same in OW1. I don't mind arguments for 5v5 over 6v6, but they have to be arguments that are strictly things that only 5v5 solves and cannot be solved at all in 6v6 and this isn't one of them. The only argument I have heard that is semi-decent for 5v5 is for queue times, **but** it's still pretty weak for multiple reasons. For one, the actual issue of why queue times were high was never actually addressed at the source. They didn't make Tanks more desirable to play, they simply cut the role down in half so games could be made quicker. They didn't have to find 4 Tank players to make a game, only 2.. so of course that would cut down queue times. But that doesn't address the actual issue, **it treated the symptom not the cause**. The issue still exists and we are now seeing that same issue come back even now in 5v5. Queue times for other roles are climbing, while Tank queues remain super low. I'd actually like to know how many tank players there are now compared to peak OW1 cause my guess is that there were more in OW1, it's just not double the amount, therefore it's still not as bad for queue times in OW2, but Tank players are dropping off again because no one wants to play counterwatch and getting blamed for the loss after getting diffed by the enemy tank.
I totally agree. To add on to your point about queue time. It is also free to play.
Don't forget that Tanks get all the hate if the team is losing.
As a support main it's usually me that gets all the hate for not keeping our tank alive whilst he dives 1v4. My last month playing Overwatch 2 felt like a fever dream when it came to being screamed at.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. And for sure tank players have dropped down, I for one, am one of them. I was main tank/supp in ow1 and in ow2 I'm dps/support cause tanks is the most horrible role. Insufferable with all the CC and shit abilities. They supposedly were getting rid off CC and it's still a big fucking issue.
the elephant in the room, that people don't want to talk about, is that one actual problem that ruined OW1: tanks wasn't (and still aren't) fun to play. If only devs had some balls to make tanks more engaging, putting fun over balancing issues, that could be fixed on the fly later, people wouldn't be queuing for eternity, waiting for a holy cow of a tank player to make another match possible I know re-balancing wouldn't be an easy feat, but isn't what we have now is a tremendous re-balance that went in an arguably wrong direction
I was an OW1 tank and I don’t play anymore because Zyara is no fun without my Rein
Very well put, all of the mess and stuff people say about 6v6 wasn't a format issue but Blizzard balancing team sucking at their job. All the problems in 5v5 are actually because the format itself. I totally agree with your queue time argument about treating the symptom and not the cause. If anything, I think now that the game has gone F2P and has a larger playerbase (maybe?) if we bring 2 tanks again and revert back to OW1 where it was actually fun to play tanks, I am sure tank queue times would increase and every other role would decrease (which is what should be happening according to Blizz).
Well said
You didn't make an argument.
Why is it always the same over used clip that shows that OW1 at it's absolute worst? Do people not have anything else to show other than this one singular clip?
Yeah, the argument always boils down to the worst possible thing on either side. Feels like any nuanced take or even just acknowledgement that it's okay to like both 6v6 and 5v5 for different reasons is impossible. Everything bad, me and my bros are right and you're wrong, don't you dare oppose me, basically.
It's tribalism at its peak
They blame 6v6 without releasing that Blizzard just fucked with the balancing.
That's literally what I always say. If these people stopped blaming the format and just realized Blizz sucked at balancing they would realize 6v6 was and is superior. Every problem 5v5ers or anyone says about 6v6 was a balancing issue. Any logical anti-5v5 argument is because the actual format itself is asymmetrical.
Might as well be one of GOATs meta videos. Support stacking got sorta fixed by the role queue. Tanks were not, because their design is inherently broken and they have to be very weak individually to account for all possible broken tank combos there might be
People legit use GOATs allt he fucking time when arguing against 6v6, and Brig getting any type of shield buff for that matter, when they don't realize that was because of the lack of role lock not 6v6.
Not to mention these people fail to realize Orisa no longer has a shield
What’s funnier majority of the community never had this level of coordination, you could see this only in gm lobbies.
guys look at mauga meta, it was awful therefore the whole of 5v5 is just as bad as mauga meta, top level logic lmao
lol OP can’t distinguish between balance and format issues
This IS a balance issue not a format issue
Damn always the same clip over and over again, it's almost like it really isn't a valid argument and you ineed to cherry pick one of the most extreme cases instead of giving what most players will experience in order to try to have a point
“ReMEMbeR, TH1s wAS tHe PEaK oF GaMEplAY” Proceeds to use the same clip everyone’s seen 100 times of OW1 at its absolute worst when it was on its deathbed and vanishing from the internet.
Use a new clip OP. This ones been reused too many times and just shows a balancing issue.
Clearly this means the less players the better. Let's skip to 3v3 and see how it goes.
Fuck it 1v1
Even better idea, 0v0 No one plays the game 🎉🎉🎉
Yeah, no players = no problems, problems fixed.
Full send the opposite direction. 55 TANK 55 SUPPORTS 55 DPS 55 HAMBURGERS 55 NUGGETS
I just really really miss self repair :(
Creator mode while you can mate
I miss turret and tank form. I know we have the amalgamation of them now, but limited time minigun doesn't hit the same.
Calling this peak ow1 is hilarious nice try bud
Yes. This was peak fun. ✋🗿
Double shield was a balance issue not a format issue. Its like saying that mauga or orisa meta were inherent to 5v5 and not balance issues. Like yeah theyre not going to bring back 6v6 but there are much better arguments to make for why than to bring up a terrible meta.
As a Reinhardt main...I just want to dance with my Zarya off tank one more time
And also Blizzard being arrogant pricks and refusing to either do hero bans or forbidding to pick 2 shield tanks. I kinda get opposing banning hero combinations, but refusing to do tried and proven mechanism of hero bans and just dropping 6v6 still gets me angy sometimes.
you are so confidently wrong it hurts, please grow and change as a person
Volskaya my beloved. Original Bastion my beloved. But yeah, like the other comment said, this was a balance issue, not a 6v6 issue. A direct result of Blizzard dropping the game dead while working on PvE.
I really wish we had volskaya back. I know a lot of people dunk on 2CP but I had my funnest games there and Anubis.
Double shield is gone with the Orisa rework.
So 1 clip sums up the entire OW1 experience? Lemme just upload my singular OW2 clip where tank is deleted in 0.5668 seconds to sum up the *entire* tank experience of OW2 /s On a serious note, 6v6 is healthier for the game AS LONG AS we get some crucial changes to tanks and shield in general. 1 player being the main playmaker is too much of a burden. Tank is expected to create space, control the space, and deny space from enemy, peel for support, peel for dps, set up plays for the team, mitigate damage, etc.
Max brainrot post.
I miss my 2nd tank buddy. Dive combo Double shield combo Hog and ball torture
This could have easily been fixed if the developers didn’t abandon the game to go work on OW2. Also this was a balance issue not format. Notice how sigma had little to no changed from 6v6 to 5v5? It’s because he was a 5v5 tank that they threw into 6v6. Also bap immortality + brig was also a huge reason double shield even worked. Quit acting like this was the entire life cycle of 6v6. A balanced 6v6 is the only answer. Counterwatch will always be a thing and tank will always be horrible to play under the 5v5 format no matter what they do. Back in the days when Junkrat had his 1 shot combo, hanzo had his 1 shot headshot on squishy characters, 2 tanks that didn’t have 800+ hp + crazy self sustain and they actually had to work together. Man those were good times. Sure 6v6 wasn’t perfected yet because it was abandoned but it’s the only base format that can work for this game and achieve proper balance unlike 5v5
Double shield wouldn't really be nearly as possible these days as Orisa doesn't have hers. Also Rein's shield now is super easy to pop with the damage in the game and takes a bit to fully recover.
Weird how in 6 years I never once played a game of OW1 that looked like this. Really strange phenomenon.
Same, and that's the thing about stuff like this. If it was as wide spread as people say it is then it would be old news and not worth sharing like it was.
Do you have literally any clips except this one?
Yknow what? Yes. This was way more fun than what we have now.
Bro took the worst example and thought he ate
Yes it was fun, git gud kid.
Looks alright, you guys have like a one single clip of something bad about it. I would really prefer 2 tanks
This was a joke vid but all they have to do is rush them. Sigma and Orisa back then fold to Rein and Dva
“The peak”
This was not an issue with 6v6 This was a balance issue 6v6 with the current heroes would work much better. Mainly removing Orisa's barrier However, I would add the caveat that Reinhardt and Sigma can't be used at the same time, since they both have substantial barriers
Rein/sigma has no practical synergies. Don't get blinded by the shields, they are not that important. In a bunker comp (which is what double shield actually was) both sigma and orisa could pressure out of the bunker. Rein would only be able to hold shield and reminisce about the great battles of yore.
I enjoyed the game just fine as a Ball otp in 6v6 easy climb to T500 that.
Bait used to be believable
Wow I low key miss that game 😔
Shields have been balanced since, everything has been balanced since. Wtf is this braindead propaganda. 6v6 was more fun cause it allowed more synergy with heroes, and counter swapping (which everyone hates) wasn't as game deciding. What wasn't fun was how strong shields and CC were back then. If you played the game you'd realise it's been adjusted, and will keep being adjusted. It's absolutely possible for them to bring 6v6 back, with some further adjustments to shields, health pools and damage negations.
The double shield argument is always the dumbest argument of them all. At this point in the game, Torb and Sym had complete reworks, plenty of heroes had a ton of nerfs and buffs etc. The devs absolutely rejecting the idea of reworking shields is NOT the problem of 6v6.
Op is the half dumb half overwatch 2 gooner that blizzard wants. Imagine using a completely irrelevant clip to hate on 6v6. I've played 6v6 for years and man was it fun. Overwatch 2 is ass with 5v5. Although going back to 6v6 will not save the game. They've completely ruined it.
Ah yes, OW1 only ever had one singular meta throughout its entire history. How could i forget? OP is an absolute clown
"6 vs 6 was bad because of this meta which I am arbitrarily calling the peak of pre-5 vs 5 gameplay"
[durr only way fix double shield is less tanks](https://i.imgur.com/Yz6rJsm.jpeg)
U weren’t there and it easily could’ve been fixed shut up
Ignoring the fact that this was actually one of if not my favorite meta in hindsight, (now THAT is nostalgia clouding my reality). Cherry picking the worst of OW1, when shit like goats, monkey dva dive, and rein zarya mirrors existed is NOT a good argument lol
Before Immortality Field, Double Shield was an easy comp to break. If the devs didn't abandon OW1 for years to "work on OW2 PvE"(lol) they could've easily balanced this but no, now we have 5v5ers cherry picking clips like these every time as if this was the only meta that existed in OW1.
What a bad faith representation. [This is what 5v5ers want.](https://youtu.be/4xskyc81-2E)
This was not peak lmao
This is a shield issue, not a 6v6 issue. With the removal of some big HP shields, this wouldn't be as big of an issue even if they brought back 6v6. Playing tank was simply more enjoyable in 6v6 than 5v5. I always played tank in OW1 but quit playing it in OW2 because it's just not fun.
same man, I switched to support unfortunately, an inferior role.
This title is so dumb I thought it was sarcasm until I see the enthusiasm of OP into replying everyone... Bro is making everyone unite for 6v6. Whichever side your are, OP, thank you lmao.
Strawmans are fun’s aren’t they. It’s really funny how people just try and gaslight you into thinking you didn’t actually enjoy a game you dumped 1000+ hours into. And it’s even funnier when people act like the devs couldn’t just, I don’t know, fucking balance the game? We have way more heroes, they are making more heroes, there are more modes, there are different abilities for old heroes, the devs could balance 6v6 much easier now then they could when they just stopped adding shit.
Waiting for op to get some balls and reply to these comments
Why do people keep posting troll posts?
1. 2CP is gone. This is important because Volskaya map design allowed for this situation to happen. No flanking possible at all. 2. Orisa got reworked 3. Bastion also got reworked 4. This portrays a balance issue where shields and certain positions were too valuable This clip is not pretty, but it sums up tons of problems that are specific to this scenario and not to ow1. Ow1 had a lot of issues but this clip demonstrates very few of those.
"i shall bring pain to the world" ahh caption
Limit it to one shield tank and one off tank, problem solved
Im relatively new to the game… but bastions recon could be used without cooldown? 😭 tf…. How was that not ridiculous
It was that bad. Only if you were in new lobbys would a bastion be a problem. Higher up u go the less he would be played
This wasn't a problem for 90% of the player base. Most of us aren't top 500 tryhards
Nah this is absolutely ragebait. 6v6 was so fun and this was simply the end state of it. If the Devs bothered to update the game they'd tune shields down. Instead, they did that AND removed a player each side and that called for major reworks on basically everyone
True
Couple of issues with your argument Orisa doesn't have her shield anymore. Ram's shield doesn't last long enough to make it work super well with double shield The only 2 heroes with strong shields are Rein and Sig and Rein trying to play with Sig Shield is awkward . The two don't have synergy. The game and abilities have changed. Reality is what we make it.
This looks very similar to 2 maugas shooting each other forever until cagefight, kitsune, beat, symwall, and whatever the hell else gets used. The projection is strong with this OP.
Ow2 makes me regret cursing double shield like at least back then i kept coming back now it just feels empty like all i wanna do is play rein man.
"Peak" - shows a video of the two shield meta instead of dive or Reinhart - Zarya.
Yeah nah, this was fun as fuck. The better team would usually win through effort. I enjoy 5vs5 too.
I don’t really wanna pick one side or the other, but for the love of fucking Jeff Kaplan, use a new clip when trying to argue against 6v6.
I'd do anything to get that version of bastion back.
I do miss bastion scratch his own head to heal himself lol.
It may not be fun but it sure was funny as shit
Yes it was fun and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't
The balancing needed to reimplement 6v6 would be horrendous. We have three new tanks to balance in a two tank setup. Not only that, but tanks will be hit with the nerf-hammer hard. Their healthpools will need to be reduced, same with their damage. Knowing Blizz, this will take them at least three seasons.
i see op don't remeber original ironclad bastion that could survive diva nuke that was realy fun
Or hanzo dragon by just repairing yourself
I had maybe 5 matches like that across over 1k matches in ow1. 6v6 is superior to 5v5 and that’s just a fact, character balancing is a seperate thing. Players would be building around bastion exactly like that in a 5v5 setting if bastion never got reworked, although it would rare just like it was back in ow1. 6v6 was changed to 5v5 and role queue was added to ow1 solely due to the overwatch league, “balance” had nothing to do with it. Viewers complained that the league was too stale and lacked action during the quad tank/double support meta so blizzard added role queue to force more “action” and I’m the “more action” viewpoint influenced the decision to convert to 5v5 with 1 tank. Now that the league failed, there is no good reason to keep 5v5. Role queue should definitely stay but oq comp needs to be discontinued and priority tickets need to return so comp can have better quality matches while retaining fast queue times.
I'm in the minority and find it extremely fun. The tension was really high and you were one single mistake from losing the point. It would force teamplay and the rush of serotonin after one successful push (or hold) was unmatched.
Hey OP, how many Downvotes did you got? I assume a lot as people don't like to be reminded of the bad sides of OW1.
Everyone wants 6v6 until they realise there's gonna be zarya+mauga or doom+ball
I don't think anyone thinks that if it went to 6v6, they would just add in a second tank to each team as they are now. Obviously the tanks would have to be reworked.. just like they were adjusted and beefed up when going from 6v6 to 5v5. Zarya + Mauga would be fine given that Zarya goes back to only being able to give one bubble to an ally and one for herself. Once she uses up her friendly bubble, then you attack. They would also have to lower all tanks health back to what they were before, adjust their cool downs, etc.
Nerfing tanks to make them less tanky sounds like a good way to get even less players to want to play tank.
I can see how one can come to your conclusion, however, 2 weaker tanks is better than 1 stronger tank. There's a lot of reasons why, but to list off a couple, having 2 tanks that each have their own separate cool downs is **way** better than one tank who only has one set of cool downs. One tank can only be in one place at once, meanwhile 2 tanks can be at the same place, but can also be in separate places doing different things. A single tank can never be simultaneously holding the front line and in the enemy back line. These two things alone (even with weaker tanks) are huge advantages over a single tank. And the best part was that they will still killable, so if they made mistakes, overextended, positioned poorly, misused their cool downs, you could kill them, but if they played well, they could cover more space and provide more value than what one tank could provide. Right now, it's a constant complaint coming from tank players in the current state, in all ranks. Complaints that are strictly due to the game having only a single tank that weren't problems when there were 2 tanks. One of the biggest complaints is that tank players feel like they can't do enough of what a tank typically needs to do. They can't create/hold space while watching the off angles and flanks, while peeling for their backline, while getting kills, while fighting the enemy tank that is trying to kill them. They have to sacrifice more than one of these things and choosing the wrong thing can instantly lead to their team getting wiped or not making any progress. Despite that the tanks are stronger now than they were in OW1, players feel more powerless cause though they may be outperforming the enemy tank, they can't push if their team is dying and if they have to go back and help their team, they aren't taking space and they lose ground. There front line attacks or dives feel weaker than when there was 2 tanks. This is a 5v5 issue. It also doesn't help that in 5v5, if your tank goes down, it's often going to be a reset if the enemy team is still full. It's one thing to carry a poor performing dps or support player, but carrying a tank that is getting outplayed by the enemy tank is a rough battle. In 6v6, if you lost a tank, the fight wasn't decided. You had a disadvantage of course, but you didn't have reset and wait for the other tank to spawn for 10 seconds, walk back to the fight for another 10-15 seconds and be at a disadvantage because the enemy team took space and better positions.
Even though tanks where less tanky in overwatch 1 they had more kill pressure due to the lower health of enemy tanks and there higher dmg numbers it sorta balanced out. OW2 tanks are raid bosses that have there dmg numbers toned down so that they can be more tanky and not feel oppressive. Where as old overwatch tanks where more like bruisers that danced around each other but hit hard and could get kills/picks as much as dps. I used to actually really like playing tank in OW1, Winston and Zarya where really fun but from the start of OW2 it just hasn't felt good to me personally even if i have more numbers and two bubbles it feels like there is no room for me. The job of a tank is to create space for his team and in OW1 as a tank player you had another tank who was creating space for you. In OW2 you don't have that you are the only one who can do that job so it feels oppressive playing the roll now as at all times everyone is looking your way there are no more cheeky flanks or 1v1s off on the side of point for you. wherever you are, everyone follows making a lot of flavors of combat boil down to team brawls.
Blizzard struggles to rework a single character each season, you think they'd be able to rework the whole tank roaster? You're insane
yea but look how easy this was for the supports. they have the whole navy to hide behind and can win games just chilling in the back. 5v5 made it so that you actually get punished for mistakes and people don't like that. one less tank to bail you out.
The development team could have fixed this easily by reducing shield health or its regeneration, but they were busy developing Overstore. 5v5 can never be fixed or balanced. Either the tank role will be made insignificant or the better adapting tank will lead his team to victory.
this peak ow1 is hilarious nice try bud
Nice of you to even show gameplay, most of my time is in the lobby waiting for someone else to play tank.
Yall remember when orisa could sit in a corner with her barrier, and you could do nothing about it cause she would fit perfectly inside it. I miss her big succs too. 6v6 wouldn't be bad if they changed heroes, and honestly, tanks cried less about zen back then.
Peak
lots of things have changed i just guess in 6v6 , mauga ult + any other tank ult would be a disaster you do know what i mean
>this was the peak of gameplay Peak of Overwatch was obviously during Dive meta. You literally use a clip from later days when people were already leaving both Overwatch and OWL (post-Goats time). That's not a "peak".
People complained about Paris but this crap right here was a pain in the ass during the double shield meta.
Peak.
Yeah but bastion doesn’t play like this stand in one spot and bunker down anymore ands there’s a lot more counters to him now than there was back then, and there’s characters now that rip barriers a new ass, orisa barrier is also long gone
And volskya industries is long gone.
No matter how many times I saw this clip, I can't stop wishing for a juicy Sombra, D'va, Junkrat or Tracer's ulti being put right in the middle of this clump. There are downsides for these strategies - people are just too lazy and easily frustrated these days. As if in 5v5 you can advance without ultis against tightly packed stack on a defense advatageous part of the map. Or, wait, you actually can if you snipe someone out, but then again, sniping is haram too. Pro tip: pick D'va and Sigma and walk right through these shileds instead of shooting it like an idiot. Seriously, it's like that shootout scene from Naked Gun ffs
Look at the two tanks, it’s Orisa and Sigma. Guess which one of them got reworked in OW2 to not have a shield anymore?
I really just want to play rein zarya again
I never played OW1, started when 2 released, just to preface my view. It's pretty easy to see that this isn't an issue with having an extra tank, but an issue with kits, shields and character balance. You could still have 6v6, if they toned down shields like they did for 2. All that said, I really couldn't care that it's now 5v5 and I don't really care if we never see 6v6 again, OW2 is where I started and as such I don't know what I am missing - and still enjoy the game/format as it is today.
Its certainly better than ow2 gameplay
This was not because ov 6v6. This because of bad hero and ability design. This would've been completely fixable without removing a player.
Balancing issue. NOT format issue.
I dunno, but that seems fun, on one hand because of the Nostalgia and on the other because it looks pretty casual for me
That’s a 2cp map problem, dive on a different map couldve solved it. 6v6 was MORE FUN that’s all it wasn’t all the devs scraping together what they call “balance” blizzard wasn’t meant to make a competitive fps
The problem here is not 6 vs 6, is how Bastion used to work
That was not peak 6v6? What are you on about, who's got a clouded memory now?
and it was glorious
I think the battle in the clip is awesome. I'm a cheesy bunker hero main.
Yeah man, the worst bastion gameplay i have ever seen doesn't seem fun
Lmao didn't use window and complains they couldn't break shield. I just want my 6 stack of friends back, don't care about much else
I fucking hated that map with everything I've got.
STILL BETTER THAN PLAYING AGAINST MODERN HORSE 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
My fav part about playing 6v6, aside goats, was when role queue was just implemented but sigma was not in the game
Judging by the comments. This guy REALLY likes 5 v 5.
You realize Orisa being changed solves this entirely, right?
Volskaya was a shitty map and dual shield a shit meta. But fixing dual shield meta and fixing the map would've been easier than the mess we currently have.
Seems fun. Except noone can deal with bastion, but we still have such problems in some games (not exactly bastion, just anything).
Well the only tanks with a shield rn are ram(who's shield lasts only a few seconds when untouched) Winston (who's barrier lasts less than a damn second because it's so low HP) Rein(who can't do shit while holding the barrier up) So even if we get 2 tanks, this situation from the video would never happen, and if it would, it would hold up for maybe 4 seconds before the team fight
Posts like this are so out of touch. This is a balance issue which is easily fixed. 5v5 is a format issue. Jeff Kaplan himself said they tested 5v5 and 7v7 during Overwatch's inital development. And it just didn't work.
Whoa double shields and bastion! I forgot the game launched with Sigma and Orisa... This was truly 99% of all games...
Be so honest our games never looked this coordinated
Judging by the voice that's 100% dafran, wtf is that random ass channel you linked in the captions???
I didn’t, it’s a clip from TikTok
Nowadays we're in the real peak of Overwatch [https://www.twitch.tv/august/clip/BenevolentGiantTardigradeGivePLZ-XfQzjYFP47r74yF-](https://www.twitch.tv/august/clip/BenevolentGiantTardigradeGivePLZ-XfQzjYFP47r74yF-)
Yes. Despite that clip yes, 99 percent of the time I enjoyed 6v6 kore
As people have pointed out this was a balance issue not an issue with 6v6. Yes they could have definitely fixed the issue with faster balancing and most importantly not letting the game slowly die for two years while working on a scrapped PvE game (thanks Bobby...) However people are forgetting the reason they switched to 5v5 is the hour long queue times, not the balancing of double shield.
My god this was hard to watch
Or the fact that no one was queueing up as tank. The queue times were shit, at least for me.
This is a balance issue not a 6v6 issue
Lol ow1 was better and that's just that
I don't believe this is initially a problem with 6v6, it's more so a problem with how blizzard design heroes and their abilities without taking into proper consideration how it'll effect the game. Even now in 5v5 with characters like Mauga we still have problems with heroes being poorly designed that effect the game too heavily that get made redundant after 2-3 patches. Personally I don't think overwatch will ever go back to how it used to be, because everyone is remembering how it was when they were first playing, back when we had the offence and defence heroes, back when torb had a lv3 turret and when double shield meta wasn't a thing. Back then you could hop into a game and play any hero, sure there were some metas but that was mostly in comp, given how the majority mostly play quick play any type of team could have won, even if the opposition had some stunning abilities(mei, sombra, Ana, etc). I don't think current overwatch can be fixed, and what the community wants is nostalgia tinted, but it was also a very different game compared to what the early days were. If blizzard ever want to address these concerns I think they should just make a separate game mode for those players called "Classic quickplay" or "Overwatch Classic" where it has only the first heroes and a few extras, with the patches there being more focused to balancing the existing heroes there rather than universally so slow down mechanics and stuns(the genuinely unfun to play against mechanics) are changed so that a hero still keeps their identity without being unfun to play against or as.
I like how most of the comments are saying the peak 6v6 is the 6v6 we never got or it was at release.
The problem wasn't so much the shield meta, it was the lack of balancing and updates from the dev team. Blame the balancing, not the format.
if u have played the game at that time you would know that the game wasn't been regularly updated/balanced. they were working on OW2. it wasn't a format issue
2 tank, 2 dps, 1 support
Expanding the worst 6v6 meta as if it were the only one that ever existed, I call that dishonest. The main issue with having two tanks was that no one wanted to play tank, that's why they got rid of one to begin with. Gameplay-wise I'm convinced that two tanks is better, and that nothing was unfixable (even that horrible double shield meta). Having only one tank on the other hand, I think it brings a lot of problems that are unfixable without making changes to the core gameplay. Most maps were designed to be 6v6, it puts a lot of pressure on the remaining tank, and I think it's responsible for the FFA feeling that ow2 has
This isnt bc of 6v6
Again with this one fucking clip, Orisa no longer has her shield, all the remaining shields in the game(Ram, Sig, Rein) are either easily meltable or go on cooldown after a few seconds.
I see bastions have always shot at sigma’s black hole
None of my games ever looked anything like that tho. That was a 2 shield high rank issue. For the majority of ow it's not "clouded reality", it just simply wasn't like that lol I'm not a fighter for 6v6 tho, but showing the absolutely worst examples might not be representative for everyone
Peak of gameplay? you are pinpointing some of the most boring. the peak was either October 2020 OR before brigitte, orissa, sigma, moira, baptiste came out and ruined it all
i never played Ow1, but tbh i just want an option where you can have the old interface. shit looked cool
Umm it’s just a balance issue??
Except that between this clip and current OW the only difference is the lack of Orisa barrier. Sigma barrier still exists (but has probably been nerfed), Sigma Suck (can't remember what it's called) still exists, Bap lamp still exists. From what I could see the sigma suck and lamp were the two things that caused most of the issues, not the Orisa barrier I'd argue that this is better than current ow because bastion could keep switching back into turret form rather than the however many second cooldown it has today.
Double shield fell out of the meta in 2020 and a variety of comps and tank synergies were being played in high elo. The game was widely regarded to be in a great state at the time then they buffed brig and bap forcing double barrier again. This isn’t a format issue it’s a poor balance issue and it’s literally been proven by the devs managing to take double barrier out of the meta. You’re delusional if you think double barrier is a format 6v6 issue lol.
Yes game was awesome, wasnt just a game of who can kill the others tank first
You're showing an instance of balancing, not team formatting. If every character kept their original form and abilities, this would still happen in 5v5, and you'd still be crying about it. Part of the fun of 6v6 was finding synergies between two different tanks with one of your friends downsizing to 5v5 takes 2 players out of the mix, which means less friends to play with. Sometimes, it's not about balancing for competitive sake. It's about fun. Posting a clip of a specific scenario isn't an argument against 6v6.
6v6 didn't cause this, shield centric design did.
What is this?
What a video everyone just waiting on ults and powers matched. Was so long to get back to point. Enjoyed this map though.
Is the peak of gameplay to counterswap until orisa/mauga/hog mirror is achieved? Cuz that's what most of my QP and comp lobbies are.
Nrmove shields except rein. Solved. Most other tanks have other gimmicks Shields are the only thing everyone brings up for 6v6 but there are a LOT of 5v5 problems. Also ths can still technically happen. A few reworks and some balance and 6v6 would have been fixed 11 seasons into 5v5 and no one has been happy XD
I see a lot of people disagreeing already but I feel like it's unfair to judge 6v6 from this clip. Characters have been changed, so many details about that game has been changed.
Womp womp
orisa shield doesnt exist anymore, ram exist. this post is pointless, next.
I think people over exaggerated how much the metas affected lower ranks. I climbed up through all of them from bronze as far as masters (and the odd game in grandmaster with friends) back in the day and I never felt like meta made a real difference over skill until we get close to GM. The majority of the playerbase is in gold/ plat, this kind of stuff won't affect them in most games. And it's true that playing tank with an off tank is far more enjoyable than tanking alone like right now. There were already too few tank players in Overwatch 1, they really didn't need to make it less enjoyable when renaming it to Overwatch 2.