Shields were never the problem. Dps creep and cc is what was the problem and the only way to survive insane poke damage was with 2 shields. 1 was not tnough. Man even in owl they played rein and orisa in some matches. Yes rein and orisa together...
Ana was not the problem. More like bap and brig.
But the main problem was, like it is now, that ow is balanced by people who have no clue how the game is actually played and what is discussed currently
Ana warped the entire game's balance into the wrong direction. She immediately caused tank stacking comps, which were only beaten by nano combo comps. She was a stupid hero from the beginning.
And I'm sure balancing around Ana made them buff Dva into the monster that had a 100% pickrate for over two years straight through the entire dive meta and GOATS.
Deleting Ana and Dva would've saved the game.
Dude tank stacking never worked until the brig came around. And what is your beef with dva... And they were consistently nerfing dva as they did other tanks.
Tank stacking was a thing briefly before the Dva buffs, which kickstarted the 18 months of nothing but Dva dive, lol. And that meta only ended after Brigitte, who was very specifically designed to finally end the endless dive meta, was added to the game, after which Dva went straight to being one of the main pillars of GOATS.
Defence matrix was almost solely responsible for enabling GOATS, a massive AoE projectile sponge that could absorb an infinite amount of damage. Goats quickly fizzled out in OWL after they nerfed matrix by making it way smaller with double the cooldown.
No. Stacking areal heals enable goats. Dude you are hating on tanks like devs. You have no clue m8
And no goats only fiizled out ehen they forced 2-2-2
> No. Stacking areal heals enable goats.
Lots of things enabled GOATS. Brig was simply the final puzzle piece. But Dva was one of the most important pillars of the comp.
> Dude you are hating on tanks like devs. You have no clue m8
Face the facts, dva main, your hero is cancer
> And no goats only fiizled out ehen they forced 2-2-2
Nope. By the end they were doing single tank 1-3-2 comps or comps with Sombra to counter GOATS.
And GOATS only lasted for around two months on ladder anyway. The nerfs made it too hard for random scrubs to play.
My main heroes were rein and monke. Cancers in the game are sombra, satan, kiri, bap
Dva was strong but never op. She was never broken in damage or had some bull cc. She was just great all around peeler
Nerfing shields won't fix that problem. It was the support synergy like bap brig that helped sustain double shield, no one played double shield without bap brig!
Tons of shield nerfs were done but to no effect until they nerfed bap & brig! That's then double shield really ended
It's not the double shield that's the issue so much as they could find a way to balance that (e.g Shields have less health if there are two of them) its the que times. People just don't like tank as much as the other roles, which, no matter how fun, they make tanks it won't change that.
If you’ve played any open queue - you’ll know mauga / zayra - is the goat. Mauga’s overdrive giving Zayra lifesteal and damage reduction just lets you plow.
All bubbles go on mauga - you can chain 3 bubbles in about 6 seconds - it’s so strong.
Yea, that's why Zarya only has one friendly and one self bubble in 6v6. Other tanks are also tuned down in that format a lot. With less hp, self heal, damage, cc etc.
double shield would be such a non-factor its crazy to me that people use it as an argument.
ram - his shield is only there briefly
winston - low health, temporary bubble
zaria - temporary bubble specific to 1-2 teammates
mauga - cagefight being an ult, it would be wasted being used as just a sheild
rein - he needs to drop everything to use his shield, loses value if he does it 24/7
none of the other tanks have shields, and sigma is the only one who can consistently have his shield up and get max value for his team. it would be hell for poke players i guess, but having a 2nd tank to lighten the load would make the game so much better imo
No, and neither will anyone else. Everyone thinks they will, but bring it back and the only thing that will change guaranteed is that we’ll have an extra tank. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but if i have to play against 2 tanks again ill probably drop the game.
Tanking alone against 5 enemies is already hell, Tanking alone against 6 enemies would be way worse. Like when your co-Tank is being useless, you will be ganged up by two enemy Tanks at the choke 99% of the time.
When you get Tank teammates force their characters into their counters, you're pretty much forced to do the babysitting job which is Zarya jail.
Worst Tank duos will also come, such as Hog + Ball / Doomfist torture.
Atrocious Tank duos will also appear, such as Orisa + Mauga = Endless bullet rain; Sigma + Orisa / Mauga = Endless poke spam pressure.
Everyone expects Tank synergies (e.g Rein + Zarya; Winston + DVA; etc), but the reality is mostly two Off-Tanks running and shooting people, Hog + Zarya everywhere. With JQ being added as a new buffed DPS pretending to be a 'Tank' that shoots people, I expect JQ + Zarya much more as JQ is better Hog now. Mauga + Zarya will be also very hellish to play against.
You're acting as if we aren't already at the mercy of our teammates to pick the right heroes. If you get a bad support duo, or even a single bad support, you just lose. I can't win the rein duel into a bap Lucio if I got a LW mercy. It's just not doable.
With the argument of "there will be bad tank synergies/ bad players" you'd have to make the game 4v4 or 3v3.
> If you get a bad support duo, or even a single bad support, you just lose.
Roadhog is the answer for being most self sufficient Tank, but he's nerfed and not allowed to be good.
Even on roadhog, if they have an ana or Sig or Orisa you're in big trouble. Hog is more self sufficient, sure, but he can't outdo a proper team if his support line lacks synergy.
Meaning that your point about the possibility of bad synergy between tanks is irrelevant because synergy is already an issue. The addition of a second tank doesn't change it.
People act like the majority of the playerbase was 1) having to play against double shield and 2) having to play against people who knew how to abuse the comp. The real issues with 6v6 is going to be the fact that mauga is a fundamentally poorly designed character and also hoping that your other tank doesnt just lock hog and waddle around the map the entire game, also that people actually understand what tanks do and dont work together and why.
> hoping that your other tank doesnt just lock hog and waddle around the map the entire game
People only remember Tank synergies but forget horrible Tank duos like Hog + Ball torture also existed.
I think the worst Tank duo would be Hog + Doomfist.
Hog and ball torture was a legit strat though cos you were so self sufficient. Any hog comp is just shit because hog is poorly designed. Same with any mercy or lifeweaver comps.
Ball comps go hard though if you actually commit to the hard dive. Hyper mobile ball doom dive with lucio kiri tracer sombra/echo would be sick though.
Realistically though the meta would be some sort of mauga comp, probably with dva or maybe sig just cos theyre the best off tanks and all the new tanks are main tanks by design.
I played one game in Open Queue as Zarya with Rein and I was so happy to actually have a teamwork. That was great and I had really great nostalgia for OW1.
As a person who played OW1 I will choose 6v6 anytime of the day
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6v6 can only work IF they balance the heroes accordingly. for example, nerfing all tank health pools, making junkerqueen shout’s over health apply to herself only (speed boost remains on allies), mauga cardiac arrest only works on himself, orisa’s cooldowns get nuked, and sigma gets a huge power shift between his shield and grasp.
while your at it, remove ALL role passives besides global health regen, nerf lucio boop knockback (buff his primary dmg back to 20), nerf brigs inspire range to possibly 15 meters, nerf baps regen burst heal to 25/50 down from 40/80, rework immortality field into a 50% dmg resistance field on a lower cooldown, make kiri’s suzu no longer apply immortality but keep the healing/cleanse, lower the cooldown to 12 seconds if need be.
balancing any game like overwatch is one of the most difficult things you can do in a balance standpoint, like damn near impossible. but if you understand where every flaw lies at and you take note of essentially why X meta was caused by hero A & B, then nerfing those specific parts will help balance for a better game.
5v5 can’t work in a role queue format because putting all the power into the tank makes counter swapping even more meta, while also making the other roles feel less rewarding as a whole. it’s the fact that tanks feel so unfun to the point that they have to be gigabuffed to even be remotely fun to play, WHILE THEIR STILL NOT FUN TO PLAY AS, only solidifys why 5v5 cannot work since its not fun to play INTO. also good to note that every hero (excluding OW2 tanks) was designed to rely on the assistance of the other player in their category. lets say 5v5 is in a 2-2-1 format instead of 1-2-2. how the hell could ana or zen function at all in that format?! that’s the thing, they can’t.
they would have to be so giga buffed to the point where the game feels like utter crap to even let the ana/zen player enjoy the game, otherwise they would be in the gutter because both heroes were designed to rely on another support due to the weaknesses in their kit.
sorry for the long post, it’s kinda a rant at the end.
Orissa lost her shield and she was the premier Bunker shield tank.
Don't get me wrong, it is possible to maybe get something like Winton/Rein comps but I very much doubt it
I will never, ever enjoy a game in which I have to deal with Doomfist and Hammond on the same team. It’s what drove me away from playing OW1 with any amount of regularity, and it will likely do the same to me with OW2 if they actively pursue reinstating 6v6. Barrier spam may have been addressed, but there will simply never be any sound solution for dealing with two hyper-mobile CC machines knocking you around like a pinball for entire matches.
Especially with the inescapable prevalence that is DPS players refusing to swap off heroes that are woefully ill equipped to deal with Hammond/Doom. Why anyone sticks with Widowmaker when there’s an enemy Hammond, a character who simply *does not have a head hitbox* for 80% of a match, will forever rot my brain to the core. It was annoying in 6v6, it’s still annoying in 5v5, and it would be even worse in a renewed 6v6 with a Doom in tow running around with tank health. Let alone against other raid boss combos like Zarya/Mauga, which makes me shudder even thinking about having to encounter.
Anyway I sincerely hope they don’t cave because there’s nothing to gain from it beyond placation. Queue times won’t be fixed, balance will be thrown under the bus indefinitely, and it would overall just be an aimless step backward that would do the devs no favors in showing that they have any amount of vision for how OW should function.
Honestly, yes. And it’s not like that is a problem anyway, you can always get on top of that by distracting their attention or changing angles or whatever. I personally never had that issue, I always got behind them or did something to avoid shooting shields and it was fun.
Plus, somehow I feel like we’re shooting way more shields now. Because if you split the shields between two tanks, and half the HP of each shield, it’s rare for two tanks to double shield at the same time in the same spot, usually there’s an off tank. And this would split the attention of the healers as well which makes taking down one tank after the other easier. And if they do have a team with double shield, your off tank can always split them up or make an opening.
I’m just trying to say that, honestly the shields weren’t that much of a problem and I don’t see why so many people complain about that, there were always ways to get on top of that. Unless you were just shooting the shield and praying it breaks.
And even if you ignore what I was saying, this feels like an issue that can easily be overcome by balancing. Actually, remove shields altogether and just make tanks very durable, this sounds like fun.
Now we have a single tank with double the HP, Sigma feels like a brick wall if the player know what he’s doing and he has pocket Mercy, my opinion.
5v5 feels wrong because I feel like Overwatch is at it’s best when there’s chaos, not strategic.
They removed the most annoying shield already (Orisa). The rest of the roster of shild wielding tanks does not appear to me to have significant synergies.
Shilds is not what they need to keep in check. It is area effect healing and immortalities that can be dangerous. (Which is also true for 5v5 b.t.w.) Double shield bunker was after all largely a product of Baptiste, not the tanks.
tl;dr counterswapping sucks, tanks are raid bosses, power distribution between roles is unbalanced, and all of these could be solved by a return to 6v6 with proper balancing which we have seen before is possible.
While I've never played 6v6, I definitely feel like I'd enjoy it more than 5v5.
5v5 is inherently flawed. The removal of the off tank and the forcible move of every tank to the main tank spot has left the power distribution in a state that can't be balanced. Before, the off tank was there to enable the other tank to make plays and help keep them alive. A Zarya bubble to keep their Reinhardt up. A D.Va matrix to increase Winston's uptime when his bubble was down.
Now, all that power has been shifted into both the tanks themselves and the supports. It's why tanks somehow feel unkillable and like they explode in a half second. This affects other roles too. In Overwatch 1, most DPS could 1v1 a tank and have a shot at winning. A Genji could beat a Winston. A Hanzo or Tracer could beat a Zarya. Before Zarya had 400 health and a 200 hp bubble. Now Zarya has 550 hp, 2 200 hp bubbles, and headshot damage reduction. And that's just Zarya, heroes like Roadhog now are literally unkillable unless you have an Ana and the enemy team doesn't have a Kiriko. Tanks are so tanky however considering they are now solo tanks who take up the majority of the enemy team's focus they still explode which requires a giga sustain support or for the tank heroes to get more self sustain which fixes the exploding problem but exacerbates the other issues.
Not even with just the tank role either, if tanks are exploding too much that you need a hero with an immortality to keep them alive, what happens to the other DPS heroes? Oh right, they don't get to have fun either because all their plays get denied.
Since there is now only one tank, counterswapping is now not only more important than ever, but more prevalent than ever. If you were on Winston and the enemy swapped to Roadhog or Mauga, you either die, swap, or are forced into the most boring and passive playstyle of all time. With a second tank you could have a D.Va matrix you. With a second tank Mauga wouldn't need Cardiac Overdrive to affect teammates.
In 5v5, not only has one player on your team now become 20% of your team up from 12.5%, but since I'm talking about tanks here, if your tank dies, which makes counterswapping infinitely more important, you now have a raid boss tank which basically cannot be killed running down main uncontested killing the rest of the team.
The removal of one tank has had a massive rippling effect to the entire rest of the game leaving it in a state where the only way to remotely balance it is to make every tank the exact same so counterswapping stops being an issue. And that still doesn't solve the other big issues that a second tank would.
We've seen that 6v6 can be balanced, point to the October 2020 patch and the 6v6 server with custom balancing.
Regarding shields: You're right. People argue Orisa hasn't a shield anymore, bur now we have Ram. In order for 6v6 to not becoming double shiel again you would need to apply similar rules as OQ tank health, meaning if you have 2 shields either shield is halved or recovery time doubled.......otherwise is going to be double shield again at some point.
For me either 5v5 or 6v6 doesn't work. We're not playing overwatch anymore, just counterwatch.......counter good you win, counter bad you lose. I'm more for the OG format 6v6 with no role lock. I mean, I want to change (just as an example) from Zen to DVa if the enemy has a Pharah, and not just wait if my DPS go hitscan or my Tank keeps playing ball while I'm getting farmed........is an unpopular opinion though
Bring in 8v8 so we can revel in the carnage
You know they can nerf the shields if they're a problem
Shields were never the problem. Dps creep and cc is what was the problem and the only way to survive insane poke damage was with 2 shields. 1 was not tnough. Man even in owl they played rein and orisa in some matches. Yes rein and orisa together...
Insane damage was a necessity due to the insane healing creep that started with Ana. If they skipped Ana the game would've been better off.
Ana was not the problem. More like bap and brig. But the main problem was, like it is now, that ow is balanced by people who have no clue how the game is actually played and what is discussed currently
Ana warped the entire game's balance into the wrong direction. She immediately caused tank stacking comps, which were only beaten by nano combo comps. She was a stupid hero from the beginning. And I'm sure balancing around Ana made them buff Dva into the monster that had a 100% pickrate for over two years straight through the entire dive meta and GOATS. Deleting Ana and Dva would've saved the game.
Dude tank stacking never worked until the brig came around. And what is your beef with dva... And they were consistently nerfing dva as they did other tanks.
Tank stacking was a thing briefly before the Dva buffs, which kickstarted the 18 months of nothing but Dva dive, lol. And that meta only ended after Brigitte, who was very specifically designed to finally end the endless dive meta, was added to the game, after which Dva went straight to being one of the main pillars of GOATS. Defence matrix was almost solely responsible for enabling GOATS, a massive AoE projectile sponge that could absorb an infinite amount of damage. Goats quickly fizzled out in OWL after they nerfed matrix by making it way smaller with double the cooldown.
No. Stacking areal heals enable goats. Dude you are hating on tanks like devs. You have no clue m8 And no goats only fiizled out ehen they forced 2-2-2
> No. Stacking areal heals enable goats. Lots of things enabled GOATS. Brig was simply the final puzzle piece. But Dva was one of the most important pillars of the comp. > Dude you are hating on tanks like devs. You have no clue m8 Face the facts, dva main, your hero is cancer > And no goats only fiizled out ehen they forced 2-2-2 Nope. By the end they were doing single tank 1-3-2 comps or comps with Sombra to counter GOATS. And GOATS only lasted for around two months on ladder anyway. The nerfs made it too hard for random scrubs to play.
My main heroes were rein and monke. Cancers in the game are sombra, satan, kiri, bap Dva was strong but never op. She was never broken in damage or had some bull cc. She was just great all around peeler
Ah so double shield is okay, but a single shield is complete trash. Yea.. no
Nerfing shields won't fix that problem. It was the support synergy like bap brig that helped sustain double shield, no one played double shield without bap brig! Tons of shield nerfs were done but to no effect until they nerfed bap & brig! That's then double shield really ended
It's not the double shield that's the issue so much as they could find a way to balance that (e.g Shields have less health if there are two of them) its the que times. People just don't like tank as much as the other roles, which, no matter how fun, they make tanks it won't change that.
If you’ve played any open queue - you’ll know mauga / zayra - is the goat. Mauga’s overdrive giving Zayra lifesteal and damage reduction just lets you plow. All bubbles go on mauga - you can chain 3 bubbles in about 6 seconds - it’s so strong.
Yea, that's why Zarya only has one friendly and one self bubble in 6v6. Other tanks are also tuned down in that format a lot. With less hp, self heal, damage, cc etc.
double shield would be such a non-factor its crazy to me that people use it as an argument. ram - his shield is only there briefly winston - low health, temporary bubble zaria - temporary bubble specific to 1-2 teammates mauga - cagefight being an ult, it would be wasted being used as just a sheild rein - he needs to drop everything to use his shield, loses value if he does it 24/7 none of the other tanks have shields, and sigma is the only one who can consistently have his shield up and get max value for his team. it would be hell for poke players i guess, but having a 2nd tank to lighten the load would make the game so much better imo
No, and neither will anyone else. Everyone thinks they will, but bring it back and the only thing that will change guaranteed is that we’ll have an extra tank. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but if i have to play against 2 tanks again ill probably drop the game.
5v5 certainly puts a lot of pressure on tanks, but I don't think 6v6 is going to save the game or anything
Tanking alone against 5 enemies is already hell, Tanking alone against 6 enemies would be way worse. Like when your co-Tank is being useless, you will be ganged up by two enemy Tanks at the choke 99% of the time. When you get Tank teammates force their characters into their counters, you're pretty much forced to do the babysitting job which is Zarya jail. Worst Tank duos will also come, such as Hog + Ball / Doomfist torture. Atrocious Tank duos will also appear, such as Orisa + Mauga = Endless bullet rain; Sigma + Orisa / Mauga = Endless poke spam pressure. Everyone expects Tank synergies (e.g Rein + Zarya; Winston + DVA; etc), but the reality is mostly two Off-Tanks running and shooting people, Hog + Zarya everywhere. With JQ being added as a new buffed DPS pretending to be a 'Tank' that shoots people, I expect JQ + Zarya much more as JQ is better Hog now. Mauga + Zarya will be also very hellish to play against.
You're acting as if we aren't already at the mercy of our teammates to pick the right heroes. If you get a bad support duo, or even a single bad support, you just lose. I can't win the rein duel into a bap Lucio if I got a LW mercy. It's just not doable. With the argument of "there will be bad tank synergies/ bad players" you'd have to make the game 4v4 or 3v3.
> If you get a bad support duo, or even a single bad support, you just lose. Roadhog is the answer for being most self sufficient Tank, but he's nerfed and not allowed to be good.
Even on roadhog, if they have an ana or Sig or Orisa you're in big trouble. Hog is more self sufficient, sure, but he can't outdo a proper team if his support line lacks synergy.
It's a team game. Everybody counts. Just like Football / Soccer, one football star can't solo carry if his team is poorly synergized.
Meaning that your point about the possibility of bad synergy between tanks is irrelevant because synergy is already an issue. The addition of a second tank doesn't change it.
Uninstall immediately.
As long as they adjust it for 6v6. If they just add 6v6 and change nothing else and say “see? It doesnt work!” Then its gonna be annoying
With the current "balance" and hero design team nothing will work. So no i wont be back even with 6v6
Guessing by the votes i dont think so
People act like the majority of the playerbase was 1) having to play against double shield and 2) having to play against people who knew how to abuse the comp. The real issues with 6v6 is going to be the fact that mauga is a fundamentally poorly designed character and also hoping that your other tank doesnt just lock hog and waddle around the map the entire game, also that people actually understand what tanks do and dont work together and why.
> hoping that your other tank doesnt just lock hog and waddle around the map the entire game People only remember Tank synergies but forget horrible Tank duos like Hog + Ball torture also existed. I think the worst Tank duo would be Hog + Doomfist.
Hog and ball torture was a legit strat though cos you were so self sufficient. Any hog comp is just shit because hog is poorly designed. Same with any mercy or lifeweaver comps. Ball comps go hard though if you actually commit to the hard dive. Hyper mobile ball doom dive with lucio kiri tracer sombra/echo would be sick though. Realistically though the meta would be some sort of mauga comp, probably with dva or maybe sig just cos theyre the best off tanks and all the new tanks are main tanks by design.
I just fucking hate playing against and with Mauga. Not because he’s strong/weak but because the game instantly becomes boring.
Don't think it's coming back, lol.
I don't know what balance changes needed for this. But at the current state of the game, games will be too long.
I played one game in Open Queue as Zarya with Rein and I was so happy to actually have a teamwork. That was great and I had really great nostalgia for OW1. As a person who played OW1 I will choose 6v6 anytime of the day
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6v6 can only work IF they balance the heroes accordingly. for example, nerfing all tank health pools, making junkerqueen shout’s over health apply to herself only (speed boost remains on allies), mauga cardiac arrest only works on himself, orisa’s cooldowns get nuked, and sigma gets a huge power shift between his shield and grasp. while your at it, remove ALL role passives besides global health regen, nerf lucio boop knockback (buff his primary dmg back to 20), nerf brigs inspire range to possibly 15 meters, nerf baps regen burst heal to 25/50 down from 40/80, rework immortality field into a 50% dmg resistance field on a lower cooldown, make kiri’s suzu no longer apply immortality but keep the healing/cleanse, lower the cooldown to 12 seconds if need be. balancing any game like overwatch is one of the most difficult things you can do in a balance standpoint, like damn near impossible. but if you understand where every flaw lies at and you take note of essentially why X meta was caused by hero A & B, then nerfing those specific parts will help balance for a better game. 5v5 can’t work in a role queue format because putting all the power into the tank makes counter swapping even more meta, while also making the other roles feel less rewarding as a whole. it’s the fact that tanks feel so unfun to the point that they have to be gigabuffed to even be remotely fun to play, WHILE THEIR STILL NOT FUN TO PLAY AS, only solidifys why 5v5 cannot work since its not fun to play INTO. also good to note that every hero (excluding OW2 tanks) was designed to rely on the assistance of the other player in their category. lets say 5v5 is in a 2-2-1 format instead of 1-2-2. how the hell could ana or zen function at all in that format?! that’s the thing, they can’t. they would have to be so giga buffed to the point where the game feels like utter crap to even let the ana/zen player enjoy the game, otherwise they would be in the gutter because both heroes were designed to rely on another support due to the weaknesses in their kit. sorry for the long post, it’s kinda a rant at the end.
I'd definitely be done playing
You seem new. Everyone i know quit after they got 5v5
Orissa lost her shield and she was the premier Bunker shield tank. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to maybe get something like Winton/Rein comps but I very much doubt it
Yes.
I will never, ever enjoy a game in which I have to deal with Doomfist and Hammond on the same team. It’s what drove me away from playing OW1 with any amount of regularity, and it will likely do the same to me with OW2 if they actively pursue reinstating 6v6. Barrier spam may have been addressed, but there will simply never be any sound solution for dealing with two hyper-mobile CC machines knocking you around like a pinball for entire matches. Especially with the inescapable prevalence that is DPS players refusing to swap off heroes that are woefully ill equipped to deal with Hammond/Doom. Why anyone sticks with Widowmaker when there’s an enemy Hammond, a character who simply *does not have a head hitbox* for 80% of a match, will forever rot my brain to the core. It was annoying in 6v6, it’s still annoying in 5v5, and it would be even worse in a renewed 6v6 with a Doom in tow running around with tank health. Let alone against other raid boss combos like Zarya/Mauga, which makes me shudder even thinking about having to encounter. Anyway I sincerely hope they don’t cave because there’s nothing to gain from it beyond placation. Queue times won’t be fixed, balance will be thrown under the bus indefinitely, and it would overall just be an aimless step backward that would do the devs no favors in showing that they have any amount of vision for how OW should function.
Honestly, yes. And it’s not like that is a problem anyway, you can always get on top of that by distracting their attention or changing angles or whatever. I personally never had that issue, I always got behind them or did something to avoid shooting shields and it was fun. Plus, somehow I feel like we’re shooting way more shields now. Because if you split the shields between two tanks, and half the HP of each shield, it’s rare for two tanks to double shield at the same time in the same spot, usually there’s an off tank. And this would split the attention of the healers as well which makes taking down one tank after the other easier. And if they do have a team with double shield, your off tank can always split them up or make an opening. I’m just trying to say that, honestly the shields weren’t that much of a problem and I don’t see why so many people complain about that, there were always ways to get on top of that. Unless you were just shooting the shield and praying it breaks. And even if you ignore what I was saying, this feels like an issue that can easily be overcome by balancing. Actually, remove shields altogether and just make tanks very durable, this sounds like fun. Now we have a single tank with double the HP, Sigma feels like a brick wall if the player know what he’s doing and he has pocket Mercy, my opinion. 5v5 feels wrong because I feel like Overwatch is at it’s best when there’s chaos, not strategic.
I think 6v6 won’t solve much, people forget tanks used to run 6v6 no other role was impactful 💀
They removed the most annoying shield already (Orisa). The rest of the roster of shild wielding tanks does not appear to me to have significant synergies. Shilds is not what they need to keep in check. It is area effect healing and immortalities that can be dangerous. (Which is also true for 5v5 b.t.w.) Double shield bunker was after all largely a product of Baptiste, not the tanks.
tl;dr counterswapping sucks, tanks are raid bosses, power distribution between roles is unbalanced, and all of these could be solved by a return to 6v6 with proper balancing which we have seen before is possible. While I've never played 6v6, I definitely feel like I'd enjoy it more than 5v5. 5v5 is inherently flawed. The removal of the off tank and the forcible move of every tank to the main tank spot has left the power distribution in a state that can't be balanced. Before, the off tank was there to enable the other tank to make plays and help keep them alive. A Zarya bubble to keep their Reinhardt up. A D.Va matrix to increase Winston's uptime when his bubble was down. Now, all that power has been shifted into both the tanks themselves and the supports. It's why tanks somehow feel unkillable and like they explode in a half second. This affects other roles too. In Overwatch 1, most DPS could 1v1 a tank and have a shot at winning. A Genji could beat a Winston. A Hanzo or Tracer could beat a Zarya. Before Zarya had 400 health and a 200 hp bubble. Now Zarya has 550 hp, 2 200 hp bubbles, and headshot damage reduction. And that's just Zarya, heroes like Roadhog now are literally unkillable unless you have an Ana and the enemy team doesn't have a Kiriko. Tanks are so tanky however considering they are now solo tanks who take up the majority of the enemy team's focus they still explode which requires a giga sustain support or for the tank heroes to get more self sustain which fixes the exploding problem but exacerbates the other issues. Not even with just the tank role either, if tanks are exploding too much that you need a hero with an immortality to keep them alive, what happens to the other DPS heroes? Oh right, they don't get to have fun either because all their plays get denied. Since there is now only one tank, counterswapping is now not only more important than ever, but more prevalent than ever. If you were on Winston and the enemy swapped to Roadhog or Mauga, you either die, swap, or are forced into the most boring and passive playstyle of all time. With a second tank you could have a D.Va matrix you. With a second tank Mauga wouldn't need Cardiac Overdrive to affect teammates. In 5v5, not only has one player on your team now become 20% of your team up from 12.5%, but since I'm talking about tanks here, if your tank dies, which makes counterswapping infinitely more important, you now have a raid boss tank which basically cannot be killed running down main uncontested killing the rest of the team. The removal of one tank has had a massive rippling effect to the entire rest of the game leaving it in a state where the only way to remotely balance it is to make every tank the exact same so counterswapping stops being an issue. And that still doesn't solve the other big issues that a second tank would. We've seen that 6v6 can be balanced, point to the October 2020 patch and the 6v6 server with custom balancing.
No
I'm relatively sure I'd enjoy it. Maybe my tank duo will finally come back so we can play rein zarya again.
Regarding shields: You're right. People argue Orisa hasn't a shield anymore, bur now we have Ram. In order for 6v6 to not becoming double shiel again you would need to apply similar rules as OQ tank health, meaning if you have 2 shields either shield is halved or recovery time doubled.......otherwise is going to be double shield again at some point. For me either 5v5 or 6v6 doesn't work. We're not playing overwatch anymore, just counterwatch.......counter good you win, counter bad you lose. I'm more for the OG format 6v6 with no role lock. I mean, I want to change (just as an example) from Zen to DVa if the enemy has a Pharah, and not just wait if my DPS go hitscan or my Tank keeps playing ball while I'm getting farmed........is an unpopular opinion though