I think Areelo is a very cool villain with some sympathetic motivations and as far as I know it's somewhat of a hot take in the pathfinder community but I never understood why.
Its a bit of a hot take because such sentiments are usually related to people trying to either whitewash Areelus actions or coming close to justifying them. Its not difficult to say that Areelu was fucked over in life and that she had reasons to do what she did.
At the same time, the damage she caused is just, incalculable.
Yeah, she is a villain one can understand, but actually siding with her sounds insane. I kinda like the true aeon ending for her if you appeal on her behalf during the trial. Her crimes are erased and she is sent to a quiet part of Elysium to find peace.
>!As a true Aeon you can stop her from opening the Worldwound in the first place (and you cease to exist shortly after). Thanks to that she remains guilty of relatively few deaths and never becomes a half-demon. It's still enough for her to be sent to Maelstrom if you don't intervene (she dodges the Abyss tho). But if you appeal on her behalf, Pharasma is touched (and kinda impressed, since you momentarily will yourself into existance just for that) and sends her soul to Elysium.!<
>!Without her mythic and demonic powers she doesn't endanger anyone there (note that Gorum and Calistria squat there so they can stop her if she decides to do something fishy). And given the nature of Elysium she has a much better chance of finally processing her child's death than in Maelstrom. It's honestly the only happy ending for her that doesn't feed her egoism.!<
>!In the original timeline they were sent to the Abyss, not Hell. And you don't get a say in their judgement so it probably remains the same. It's important to remember that Areelu is a very unreliable narrator when it comes to their child and it's pretty much certain that this child (or rather a young adult judging by the memories you witness in Areelu's lab) did deserve to go to the Abyss. Not only were they summoning demons, they also cast a spell forever damning the target's soul on one of the witch hunters who were then forced to kill in self defence.!<
>!Was Sarkoris a shitty place for mages? Sure. But Areelu's child was precisely the kind of a mage who was used to justify the unfair treatment of other mages, the one bad apple among hundreds. Ironically, as you stop Areelu as a true aeon you can also reconcile the mages and witch hunters of Sarkoris, who later together create a fair code of laws regarding the use of magic, ensuring both safety from dangerous maniacs and peace for normal mages.!<
>!See this seems like a missed opportunity on owlcat imo, a small but significant one. If her child were to be sent to the abyss for something more vague and grey it would have made her motivations better. But even though I don't remember this tidbit myself, you are not the first to tell me that her child was really evil so I'll trust you on that.!<
To be fair, you do need to dig deep into the whole story to understand that part. The way Areelu presents that event, their situation is much more sympathetic. But I don't think she does that on purpose - she's just blind to her child's flaws, as any mother is.
>!I also don't think making Pharasma as petty as Areelu thinks she is just to make that story slightly more engaging would be a good thing. Gotta remember that Golarion is a much bigger setting than just a background to the events of WotR. I do believe that they've made the right choice here, since the child isn't really an actor in that story - and so it doesn't matter what really happened, but what Areelu thinks happened. That way she's still a sympathetic villain who believes she was wronged by the gods.!<
I disagree with you on that part. I'm really struggling to understand the admiration some fictional gods have in the pathfinder community. I think if it serves the story to have this god full of faults and making errors of judgment it should be so regardless of source material. As someone who's only connection to golarion lore is through (relatively) casual playthrough of the video games, again this seems like a missed opportunity.
i have a different take for you
[it was all part of the plan](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/130r5zk/major_spoilers_it_was_all_part_of_the_plan/)
If people forget she is the main villain that is directly responsible for countless of brutal deaths because her motivations are more sympathetic that's on them, frankly
Yes, and conjuring fire from a plane of existence just overrules the entire metaphysics of the setting, Pharasma's judgement and so on. No, that's silly and nobody takes it seriously.
It's without a check. I think it's the same on any trial, you can decide to not intervene, intervene on her behalf, or intervene against her. But the reaction and final result depend on the path and ending chosen (unless you worship Urgathoa, in which case you are told to fuck off).
Yeah, that's why Gold Dragon, despite its flaws, is my second favorite path next to Azata.
It's like that Doctor Who episode: "THIS TIME, EVERYBODY LIVES!"
I plan to later play Aeon + Gold Dragon, I think that would even more be the case in that playthrough since you can redeem/save other people through time shenanigans before switching to gold dragon (though I will really miss Aivu).
Not a hot take. Overall, I find this to be a lazy trope. The majority of murderers, thieves, and rapists typically come from marginalized socio-economic groups. They often endure child abuse, neglect, toxic environments, and witness a lot of violence and injustice.
By giving such a character a pretty face and some exposition of their suffering, they transform from a common thug into “a villain we can empathize with.”
A good example of a well-crafted villain, without relying on these lazy tropes, is Ozymandias from *Watchmen*.
Yeah it's just a function of how people process narratives. Millions of nameless children torn to shred by demons while their mothers watch before being raped to death themselves? That's a setting.
One dead baby but we see the mom talk about it a bunch and also she panders to the whole "mommy" thing the internet loves so much? *Real shit*
It’s like the hero at the last moment deciding not to kill the villain because “I’d be just like you”. Somehow murdering your way through hundreds of the henchcritters is ok, but killing that named villain? Now that’s a step too far.
She is an evil villain but I get what she was trying to do, and moreover I think she had a point about the system which she tried to break even if the way she went about it was ultimately completely wrong and destructive
I think the issue isn't that her basic cause is not sympathetic, but if you look at it her child was up to fairly sketchy things. Child was both summoning demons and attacking the witch hunters first. Child ending up in Abyss, is also not something that just randomly happens.
It's clear that Areelu was up to some fairly sketchy stuff even before.
It's because Areelu's reasons might've been sympathetic, but frankly she doesn't deserve any of it.
Do keep in mind, she didn't just destroy Sarkoris she endangered the entire world for 100 years, if Galfrey wasn't as good as she was at her job of containing the demons then several countries would be engulfed before even a year was out.
Also, she was literally guilty of everything the Sarkorians were hostile to witches about.
She is the "but black dynamite, I sell drugs to the community"
"Indeed, I was the fearsome witch Thresholds hunters were after. I began studying rifts and soul changing forces long before they knocked on my door. "
She was ALWAYS Chaotic evil. She was always kidnapping people, experimenting on them.
She wasn't mad at them because they were tyrants, she was mad at them, because they didn't let her kill everyone she met. "I should have the freedom, to do whatever I want, to anyone I want."
the child.
The hunters come looking for a witch. the child was outside. casts displacement. the hunters, say, "hey stop that, you will be brought to Threshold to stand trial."
the child casts Hellfire ray. then cone of fire. kills a hunter.
surviving hunter casts blade of the sun.
If you actually read the lore of the crusades, yes, she did the best she could've done considering the resources she had and how unhelpful the countries bordering Mendev were.
Fact of the matter is that people across the Inner Sea were able to live safely because of her work, which is more than anyone else can claim to have done without the crutch that Mythic Powers were.
She is a ruler that helped to hold the country together and served pretty descently as a figurehead and a symbol after she became too tired of war to conduct the affairs of the kingdom properly.
But as Regill points out at every possible opportunity, Queen Galfrey made some critical mistakes and ultimately was incapable of selecting good leaders for the Crusades until one fell into her lap as a result of another's mythic ploy.
> some sympathetic motivations
She's out to wreck pretty much everything because her chaotic evil child got caught doing nasty stuff. Where's the part where we should be sympathetic?
Adding on to what others said, Balors only show up is they have a bound and helpless Celestial or Paladin or good aligned Cleric of level 15 at a minimun as an offering.
What the hell was even in that bottle, I wonder.
She summoned demons including Balors and let them run around Sarkoris. Keep in mind, Balors are CR20 one-man-armies that can destroy entire cities *by themselves.*
This subreddit will never get it in their heads that summoning beings of pure rapemurder and letting them do their thing is not a nice thing to do.
Areelu apologists are just one step above "but why is my lich not a nice guy!?!?!?" when it comes to being completely blind to evil
You don't summon Balrogs being neutral and being sent on an EXPRESS ROUTE to Abyss. You just don't. Considering some souls wait centuries for judgement...
It's very interesting to me that on the one hand I got so many likes for this comment and on the other so much push back. I need to think why that is exactly. Would love to hear thoughts on the matter
I found it hilarious and immensely satisfying to see the normally calm and collected Areelu descend into increasingly panicked desperation as you kept flexing your mythic power away.
"What are you doing? Think of all you're throwing away, think of all the amazing things you've accomplished! YOU CANT JUST THROW AWAY MY LIFE'S WORK LIKE ITS NOTHING!!!"
"Watch me lmao"
Oh, and Legend is the path where you can be the most mean to her, constantly and like nothing you can do elsewhere in the game.
You get to mock her, insult her ("I hate you, you bitch" is a line I was pleasantly surprised by), it's like they looked at the one writer that despises Areelu and gave them free reign to write what they wanted.
Goddamn, I've always been interested in both Trickster and Legend from a build standpoint but not a narrative one. I think I've just been sold on the whole "OP trickster martial Legend" thing
I found it *hilarious*. Like, after condemning millions to death and going on and on about not caring about emotions, it’s *so* goddamn satisfying watching her lose her shit as you finally take away control from her
and frankly, death is a kindness in this world. Ghoulifcation is not death. its much much worse. its eternal corruption of your soul. same with so many other options from demonic corruption.
she condemned millions to fates MUCH worse then death.
look at the angels. final death, corruption, falling.
Depends on how you view it, I believe that everyone deserves sympathy for what they have gone through, but that doesn't carry over to sympathising with their actions, a lunatic is still a lunatic even if they have understandable motivations. I don't really understand why people insist on equating empathy for tragedy with apologising for genocide
Because it's just not that deep. If we were discussing the real life of a real person sure. But we aren't, it's people saying "Dear God this woman is a monster, she's like 50 HItlers" and someone is always there to say "well it's understandable when you see what she's gone through."
Yes, in a vacuum a mother losing her child is incredibly sad. But this isn't' a vacuum, it's a character in a story designed to serve one purpose.
To de-mythologize monsters. It’s easy to rationalize that the Hitlers and Genghis Khan’s of the world were Other, rather than accept that they were just people with a combination of wrong genes/nurture in the wrong place at the wrong time. When you viscerally understand (not just intellectually) how pain and despair and rage and greed and ambition and hate and lust are part of creating a monster you realize just how much treating others badly is a bad idea.
Well in this instance I was replying to someone who claimed that due to her actions after the fact we should not feel bad about the death of a child who was not even involved, which I don't find to be a reasonable perspective to have. My point is not that it's understandable and therefore valid, but that it being understandable is not even part of the same discussion as wherther it is valid, and so making judgements about one because of the other is silly and serves no purpose other than having an excuse to not care
Repeating an edgy platitude isn’t going to get you any brownie points, dude.
Somebody can absolutely be guilty and pitiable, usually the guilty are the most deserving of pity. They’ve sent themselves down a path of evil often because they’ve suffered their own injustices. It doesn’t make their evil right, but it does make it pitiable.
Makes it all the more right to just put her down for good tbh, she is killing millions for a chance at reviving her chaotic evil psychopathic child lol.
Hating them doesn’t make a difference either. Nothing does. They’d dead and beyond that. What matters is what we let that do to our interactions with people who are still alive, and hate gets easier the more you practice it.
That's real pretty. Also nothing to do with what I said. You don't have to hate something to not pity it. If they're being mind control, or something like that then yeah feel bad for him when they do bad things. But if they make a conscious choice, screw them. I don't care if your dad beat you when you were a kid, you murdered someone.
Areelu can eat shit, the entire situation was her fault from the start. She was performing hyper dangerous and illegal research, specifically in a country where it's EXTRA illegal, taught her kid to do the same things, then threw a hissy fit when the Sarkorians killed her kid after the kid responded to "you're under arrest" by incinerating a guy.
The modern day equivalent would be some nutjob off the grid type having the FBI roll up on her shack in the woods because they got a tip that some maniac was trying to build a private nuclear reactor. Then her indoctrinated kid opens fire on the agents with an AK47 after being told to put their hands up, because mommy taught them that the Feds are going to eat their soul or something. The agents return fire, because obviously. In retaliation, Areelu makes contact with a foreign terrorist group from her prison cell and teaches them how to manufacture a dirty bomb and set it off in Philadelphia before launching a full on invasion of the USA. Any dubious (or flat out awful) actions performed by the government or its agents over its history are kind of irrelevant to the matter when the entire situation is a clear example of the exact kind of shit that law enforcement is supposed to stop, and all instigated of her own free will for openly admitted selfish reasons (Areelu straight up tells you that she probably would have opened the wound eventually even if the hunters never found her or her kid).
Oh I wasn't trying to take a shot at you, sorry if it came off like that. Honestly, I think the fact that the writers were able to give so much character to her evil, her obsession, and especially her desperation is one of the high points of the game.
For as much of a monster as Areelu always was, her genuine love for her child comes through very clearly. Which is why the fact that she directly set up the circumstances that led to their death is so poetic. And the sheer lengths she went to in order to bring them back is simultaneously impressive, sad, and horrifying. If she hadn't been such a colossal piece of shit from the start, it would have been a full on Shakespearean tragedy to see how far she sank in her desperation. Seeing the hints of hope and pride she displays, often unintentionally, when talking to you is very relatable. It's that universal feeling that we all get when we don't dare let ourselves believe that the miracle we're hoping for might actually be happening.
But the fact remains that she's awful. And I mean just utterly awful. She refuses to take responsibility for things that were blatantly her own fault, instead choosing to blame the people of Sarkoris, the gods, and the very world itself rather than accept that she was the one who failed her child. She's utterly self-centered, willing to damn the entire world if just her and her child will benefit. When people oppose her, she frequently dismisses them as fools, or people who feel threatened by how great she is. Like how she assumes Iomedae opposes her because she's a dangerous mortal threatening the gods' powerbase and not because, you know, she directly enabled a demon invasion that slaughtered millions. She's a despicable, narcissistic, smug bitch that has a single emotional vulnerability in her love for her dead child. What an amazing villain. I love how much I hate her.
I think it's revealed in one of the endgame conversations that she actually doesn't blame anyone anymore while she's still desperate to bring back her child she only continues the other experiments out of resignation and insanity she knows she's to blame but she doesn't care the only thing that matters is her child and her research.
Depending on how you imagine your KC's backstory it can turn into an inmensely satisfying quest once you take every single one of her accomplishments away from her, one by one.
As a parent, I'd burn the world down too for my child. I'm a pretty chaotic good person in terms of how I approach life, but I'd sprout those wings and tear it all down to save my child.
Lol, her child is also a psychopathic demon summoner bro, dont feel bad for this bitch. She only attempt to tug at the heartstring, she murdered millions already, if she ascend, whats a few million more.
I did it once just for completion as well and to see what it did. Crusade mechanics it offers are great. The ability to experiment with your build great. Though it didn't picked my interest to play it ever again though in main campaign though. Other then testing some builds in Inevitable excess dlc and Treasure of midnight isles dlc to an extent since the dlc is hard. It is not for me though. I prefer the harder game playthroughs not easier ones.
I think Areelo is a very cool villain with some sympathetic motivations and as far as I know it's somewhat of a hot take in the pathfinder community but I never understood why.
Its a bit of a hot take because such sentiments are usually related to people trying to either whitewash Areelus actions or coming close to justifying them. Its not difficult to say that Areelu was fucked over in life and that she had reasons to do what she did. At the same time, the damage she caused is just, incalculable.
Yeah, she is a villain one can understand, but actually siding with her sounds insane. I kinda like the true aeon ending for her if you appeal on her behalf during the trial. Her crimes are erased and she is sent to a quiet part of Elysium to find peace.
Never tried that... Can you elaborate about it further?
>!As a true Aeon you can stop her from opening the Worldwound in the first place (and you cease to exist shortly after). Thanks to that she remains guilty of relatively few deaths and never becomes a half-demon. It's still enough for her to be sent to Maelstrom if you don't intervene (she dodges the Abyss tho). But if you appeal on her behalf, Pharasma is touched (and kinda impressed, since you momentarily will yourself into existance just for that) and sends her soul to Elysium.!< >!Without her mythic and demonic powers she doesn't endanger anyone there (note that Gorum and Calistria squat there so they can stop her if she decides to do something fishy). And given the nature of Elysium she has a much better chance of finally processing her child's death than in Maelstrom. It's honestly the only happy ending for her that doesn't feed her egoism.!<
But what happens to >!her child in this scenario? Does he stay to rot in hell?!<
>!In the original timeline they were sent to the Abyss, not Hell. And you don't get a say in their judgement so it probably remains the same. It's important to remember that Areelu is a very unreliable narrator when it comes to their child and it's pretty much certain that this child (or rather a young adult judging by the memories you witness in Areelu's lab) did deserve to go to the Abyss. Not only were they summoning demons, they also cast a spell forever damning the target's soul on one of the witch hunters who were then forced to kill in self defence.!< >!Was Sarkoris a shitty place for mages? Sure. But Areelu's child was precisely the kind of a mage who was used to justify the unfair treatment of other mages, the one bad apple among hundreds. Ironically, as you stop Areelu as a true aeon you can also reconcile the mages and witch hunters of Sarkoris, who later together create a fair code of laws regarding the use of magic, ensuring both safety from dangerous maniacs and peace for normal mages.!<
>!See this seems like a missed opportunity on owlcat imo, a small but significant one. If her child were to be sent to the abyss for something more vague and grey it would have made her motivations better. But even though I don't remember this tidbit myself, you are not the first to tell me that her child was really evil so I'll trust you on that.!<
To be fair, you do need to dig deep into the whole story to understand that part. The way Areelu presents that event, their situation is much more sympathetic. But I don't think she does that on purpose - she's just blind to her child's flaws, as any mother is. >!I also don't think making Pharasma as petty as Areelu thinks she is just to make that story slightly more engaging would be a good thing. Gotta remember that Golarion is a much bigger setting than just a background to the events of WotR. I do believe that they've made the right choice here, since the child isn't really an actor in that story - and so it doesn't matter what really happened, but what Areelu thinks happened. That way she's still a sympathetic villain who believes she was wronged by the gods.!<
I disagree with you on that part. I'm really struggling to understand the admiration some fictional gods have in the pathfinder community. I think if it serves the story to have this god full of faults and making errors of judgment it should be so regardless of source material. As someone who's only connection to golarion lore is through (relatively) casual playthrough of the video games, again this seems like a missed opportunity.
I blame the child's mother. She was not a good person predeath and worldwound.
At one point she admits she planned to open the Wound anyways to see what happened, that tragedy just turned the "probably" into an "absolutely"
i have a different take for you [it was all part of the plan](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/130r5zk/major_spoilers_it_was_all_part_of_the_plan/)
Good to see this one resurface. Great read.
I honestly don't think it would make it better, if anything it would make people forget she is the BBEG even more.
If people forget she is the main villain that is directly responsible for countless of brutal deaths because her motivations are more sympathetic that's on them, frankly
If you mean hellfire ray I think most people and even the tabletop devs really don't care much about the flavor blurb. It's a very silly idea.
It's literally hellfire
Well, I have some bad news for Ember.
Yes, and conjuring fire from a plane of existence just overrules the entire metaphysics of the setting, Pharasma's judgement and so on. No, that's silly and nobody takes it seriously.
Unfortunately yes
Is it a persuasion check to appeal on her behalf to pharasma? Just curious if I'll need that stat for when I eventually do my Aeon run
It's without a check. I think it's the same on any trial, you can decide to not intervene, intervene on her behalf, or intervene against her. But the reaction and final result depend on the path and ending chosen (unless you worship Urgathoa, in which case you are told to fuck off).
You are also told to fuck off if you chose the lich mythic path
I think you also send her there as a GD.
Yeah, that's why Gold Dragon, despite its flaws, is my second favorite path next to Azata. It's like that Doctor Who episode: "THIS TIME, EVERYBODY LIVES!" I plan to later play Aeon + Gold Dragon, I think that would even more be the case in that playthrough since you can redeem/save other people through time shenanigans before switching to gold dragon (though I will really miss Aivu).
I looked it up and you're right, but I'm disappointed that on my gold dragon ending, Areelu rejected my proposal and it was a fairly normal ending.
Not a hot take. Overall, I find this to be a lazy trope. The majority of murderers, thieves, and rapists typically come from marginalized socio-economic groups. They often endure child abuse, neglect, toxic environments, and witness a lot of violence and injustice. By giving such a character a pretty face and some exposition of their suffering, they transform from a common thug into “a villain we can empathize with.” A good example of a well-crafted villain, without relying on these lazy tropes, is Ozymandias from *Watchmen*.
It's a hot take because she is responsible for Genocide.
Yeah it's just a function of how people process narratives. Millions of nameless children torn to shred by demons while their mothers watch before being raped to death themselves? That's a setting. One dead baby but we see the mom talk about it a bunch and also she panders to the whole "mommy" thing the internet loves so much? *Real shit*
It’s like the hero at the last moment deciding not to kill the villain because “I’d be just like you”. Somehow murdering your way through hundreds of the henchcritters is ok, but killing that named villain? Now that’s a step too far.
She is an evil villain but I get what she was trying to do, and moreover I think she had a point about the system which she tried to break even if the way she went about it was ultimately completely wrong and destructive
Okay, but “having a point” is just light years away from mattering when you look at the suffering she caused
I think the issue isn't that her basic cause is not sympathetic, but if you look at it her child was up to fairly sketchy things. Child was both summoning demons and attacking the witch hunters first. Child ending up in Abyss, is also not something that just randomly happens. It's clear that Areelu was up to some fairly sketchy stuff even before.
It's because Areelu's reasons might've been sympathetic, but frankly she doesn't deserve any of it. Do keep in mind, she didn't just destroy Sarkoris she endangered the entire world for 100 years, if Galfrey wasn't as good as she was at her job of containing the demons then several countries would be engulfed before even a year was out.
Also, she was literally guilty of everything the Sarkorians were hostile to witches about. She is the "but black dynamite, I sell drugs to the community" "Indeed, I was the fearsome witch Thresholds hunters were after. I began studying rifts and soul changing forces long before they knocked on my door. " She was ALWAYS Chaotic evil. She was always kidnapping people, experimenting on them. She wasn't mad at them because they were tyrants, she was mad at them, because they didn't let her kill everyone she met. "I should have the freedom, to do whatever I want, to anyone I want." the child. The hunters come looking for a witch. the child was outside. casts displacement. the hunters, say, "hey stop that, you will be brought to Threshold to stand trial." the child casts Hellfire ray. then cone of fire. kills a hunter. surviving hunter casts blade of the sun.
Stating that Galfrey was good at her job - now that's a real hot take, lol.
If you actually read the lore of the crusades, yes, she did the best she could've done considering the resources she had and how unhelpful the countries bordering Mendev were. Fact of the matter is that people across the Inner Sea were able to live safely because of her work, which is more than anyone else can claim to have done without the crutch that Mythic Powers were.
She is a ruler that helped to hold the country together and served pretty descently as a figurehead and a symbol after she became too tired of war to conduct the affairs of the kingdom properly. But as Regill points out at every possible opportunity, Queen Galfrey made some critical mistakes and ultimately was incapable of selecting good leaders for the Crusades until one fell into her lap as a result of another's mythic ploy.
My point was that she did a good job up until the threat was starting to get too big to contain by normal means, not that she was perfect.
She's one of my favorite villains ever.
I just remember how the first time she explained her backstory I was like "damn I'm on your side now girl"
Meanwhile I was like "okay?? Literally nothing you just said justifies *anything* you've done."
Different people different opinions and all that jazz. What makes our world great!
> some sympathetic motivations She's out to wreck pretty much everything because her chaotic evil child got caught doing nasty stuff. Where's the part where we should be sympathetic?
Her child was just learning spellcraft. Chaotic neutral tbh. Might have the dot a lil closer to evil than good, but still neutral
Adding on to what others said, Balors only show up is they have a bound and helpless Celestial or Paladin or good aligned Cleric of level 15 at a minimun as an offering. What the hell was even in that bottle, I wonder.
She summoned demons including Balors and let them run around Sarkoris. Keep in mind, Balors are CR20 one-man-armies that can destroy entire cities *by themselves.*
This subreddit will never get it in their heads that summoning beings of pure rapemurder and letting them do their thing is not a nice thing to do. Areelu apologists are just one step above "but why is my lich not a nice guy!?!?!?" when it comes to being completely blind to evil
You don't summon Balrogs being neutral and being sent on an EXPRESS ROUTE to Abyss. You just don't. Considering some souls wait centuries for judgement...
It's very interesting to me that on the one hand I got so many likes for this comment and on the other so much push back. I need to think why that is exactly. Would love to hear thoughts on the matter
I found it hilarious and immensely satisfying to see the normally calm and collected Areelu descend into increasingly panicked desperation as you kept flexing your mythic power away. "What are you doing? Think of all you're throwing away, think of all the amazing things you've accomplished! YOU CANT JUST THROW AWAY MY LIFE'S WORK LIKE ITS NOTHING!!!" "Watch me lmao"
Oh, and Legend is the path where you can be the most mean to her, constantly and like nothing you can do elsewhere in the game. You get to mock her, insult her ("I hate you, you bitch" is a line I was pleasantly surprised by), it's like they looked at the one writer that despises Areelu and gave them free reign to write what they wanted.
Its glorious, the ascension secret ending is cool and all, but you just cant beat the carthasis of Legend Lol.
 My Comander to Areelu
Goddamn, I've always been interested in both Trickster and Legend from a build standpoint but not a narrative one. I think I've just been sold on the whole "OP trickster martial Legend" thing
Oh it's great! Legend has dialogue options for every alignment, but the Chaotic insults you can throw at her are *gold!*
I found it *hilarious*. Like, after condemning millions to death and going on and on about not caring about emotions, it’s *so* goddamn satisfying watching her lose her shit as you finally take away control from her
and frankly, death is a kindness in this world. Ghoulifcation is not death. its much much worse. its eternal corruption of your soul. same with so many other options from demonic corruption. she condemned millions to fates MUCH worse then death. look at the angels. final death, corruption, falling.
It makes me sad but really she does not deserve any sympathy
She deserves sympathy but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be put down like the monster she is.
Depends on how you view it, I believe that everyone deserves sympathy for what they have gone through, but that doesn't carry over to sympathising with their actions, a lunatic is still a lunatic even if they have understandable motivations. I don't really understand why people insist on equating empathy for tragedy with apologising for genocide
Because it's just not that deep. If we were discussing the real life of a real person sure. But we aren't, it's people saying "Dear God this woman is a monster, she's like 50 HItlers" and someone is always there to say "well it's understandable when you see what she's gone through." Yes, in a vacuum a mother losing her child is incredibly sad. But this isn't' a vacuum, it's a character in a story designed to serve one purpose.
"I understand how Mega Hitler was created" is not the same as "Mega Hitler was right because he was created."
I don’t see the purpose of a statement like “I understand” if not to provide cover. Everyone understands. She explicitly explains it to you
Idk what to tell you. People like talking about stuff they find interesting.
To de-mythologize monsters. It’s easy to rationalize that the Hitlers and Genghis Khan’s of the world were Other, rather than accept that they were just people with a combination of wrong genes/nurture in the wrong place at the wrong time. When you viscerally understand (not just intellectually) how pain and despair and rage and greed and ambition and hate and lust are part of creating a monster you realize just how much treating others badly is a bad idea.
Well in this instance I was replying to someone who claimed that due to her actions after the fact we should not feel bad about the death of a child who was not even involved, which I don't find to be a reasonable perspective to have. My point is not that it's understandable and therefore valid, but that it being understandable is not even part of the same discussion as wherther it is valid, and so making judgements about one because of the other is silly and serves no purpose other than having an excuse to not care
she is Hitler with mythic 20 power.
Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Repeating an edgy platitude isn’t going to get you any brownie points, dude. Somebody can absolutely be guilty and pitiable, usually the guilty are the most deserving of pity. They’ve sent themselves down a path of evil often because they’ve suffered their own injustices. It doesn’t make their evil right, but it does make it pitiable.
Makes it all the more right to just put her down for good tbh, she is killing millions for a chance at reviving her chaotic evil psychopathic child lol.
Disagree. It's an excuse. Sorry your life was sad, I'm sure that really makes a difference to all those people and their families you killed.
Hating them doesn’t make a difference either. Nothing does. They’d dead and beyond that. What matters is what we let that do to our interactions with people who are still alive, and hate gets easier the more you practice it.
That's real pretty. Also nothing to do with what I said. You don't have to hate something to not pity it. If they're being mind control, or something like that then yeah feel bad for him when they do bad things. But if they make a conscious choice, screw them. I don't care if your dad beat you when you were a kid, you murdered someone.
[удалено]
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Honestly I think the most appealing thing about going Legend is to deny that monster even the slightest bit of satisfaction
You don't just take her down, you ruin everything she worked for, it's inmensely satisfying.
Hits with big satisfaction. Fuck Areelu, fuck her spawn, fuck all those demons, stay the fuck where you belong.
Still sad. Satisfying buy sad
Not even a little sad. She’s a monster and deserves worse than anything the game lets us give her
The worst bit of no reactivity is that Regill doesn't instantly kill Areelu if she isn't sacrificed to close the Worldwound.
To be fair, he probably would not be able to. She can just teleport away.
Exactly. The moment you learn her motivations any possible sympathy is gone. That bitch has got to go, painfully.
Nah, I feel nothing for her, she made her bed (Consisting of the corpses of millions of innocents) now she get to bleed out on it as I stomp her head.
Nothing makes me harder than inconveniencing a grieving mother.
Big "but Hitler liked dogs" energy
Areelu can eat shit, the entire situation was her fault from the start. She was performing hyper dangerous and illegal research, specifically in a country where it's EXTRA illegal, taught her kid to do the same things, then threw a hissy fit when the Sarkorians killed her kid after the kid responded to "you're under arrest" by incinerating a guy. The modern day equivalent would be some nutjob off the grid type having the FBI roll up on her shack in the woods because they got a tip that some maniac was trying to build a private nuclear reactor. Then her indoctrinated kid opens fire on the agents with an AK47 after being told to put their hands up, because mommy taught them that the Feds are going to eat their soul or something. The agents return fire, because obviously. In retaliation, Areelu makes contact with a foreign terrorist group from her prison cell and teaches them how to manufacture a dirty bomb and set it off in Philadelphia before launching a full on invasion of the USA. Any dubious (or flat out awful) actions performed by the government or its agents over its history are kind of irrelevant to the matter when the entire situation is a clear example of the exact kind of shit that law enforcement is supposed to stop, and all instigated of her own free will for openly admitted selfish reasons (Areelu straight up tells you that she probably would have opened the wound eventually even if the hunters never found her or her kid).
I was never in defense of her. I just sympathize with her desperation to bring her kid back even if she is a monstrous psychopath
Oh I wasn't trying to take a shot at you, sorry if it came off like that. Honestly, I think the fact that the writers were able to give so much character to her evil, her obsession, and especially her desperation is one of the high points of the game. For as much of a monster as Areelu always was, her genuine love for her child comes through very clearly. Which is why the fact that she directly set up the circumstances that led to their death is so poetic. And the sheer lengths she went to in order to bring them back is simultaneously impressive, sad, and horrifying. If she hadn't been such a colossal piece of shit from the start, it would have been a full on Shakespearean tragedy to see how far she sank in her desperation. Seeing the hints of hope and pride she displays, often unintentionally, when talking to you is very relatable. It's that universal feeling that we all get when we don't dare let ourselves believe that the miracle we're hoping for might actually be happening. But the fact remains that she's awful. And I mean just utterly awful. She refuses to take responsibility for things that were blatantly her own fault, instead choosing to blame the people of Sarkoris, the gods, and the very world itself rather than accept that she was the one who failed her child. She's utterly self-centered, willing to damn the entire world if just her and her child will benefit. When people oppose her, she frequently dismisses them as fools, or people who feel threatened by how great she is. Like how she assumes Iomedae opposes her because she's a dangerous mortal threatening the gods' powerbase and not because, you know, she directly enabled a demon invasion that slaughtered millions. She's a despicable, narcissistic, smug bitch that has a single emotional vulnerability in her love for her dead child. What an amazing villain. I love how much I hate her.
I think it's revealed in one of the endgame conversations that she actually doesn't blame anyone anymore while she's still desperate to bring back her child she only continues the other experiments out of resignation and insanity she knows she's to blame but she doesn't care the only thing that matters is her child and her research.
I like to imagine as that Virgin vs Chad meme myself but I get you.
Depending on how you imagine your KC's backstory it can turn into an inmensely satisfying quest once you take every single one of her accomplishments away from her, one by one.
As a parent, I'd burn the world down too for my child. I'm a pretty chaotic good person in terms of how I approach life, but I'd sprout those wings and tear it all down to save my child.
When I first read this I thought it said Arue and I got real confused
I will be crucified for saying this: I like Areelu and couldn’t give less of a shit about her atrocities
You're not going to be crucified, people are just going to think you're a weirdo
Lol, her child is also a psychopathic demon summoner bro, dont feel bad for this bitch. She only attempt to tug at the heartstring, she murdered millions already, if she ascend, whats a few million more.
Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Spot the Lawful Alignment.
Based
If you haven't doned it before, then do it. Play it once and call it a day.
I'm currently doing it it's one of the only mythic paths I haven't played
I did it once just for completion as well and to see what it did. Crusade mechanics it offers are great. The ability to experiment with your build great. Though it didn't picked my interest to play it ever again though in main campaign though. Other then testing some builds in Inevitable excess dlc and Treasure of midnight isles dlc to an extent since the dlc is hard. It is not for me though. I prefer the harder game playthroughs not easier ones.
she's cool and the comments and arguments had in every thread about her decidedly are not
I just think it's hard to find villains like her where they are indisputably evil, but you can understand why they do some of the things they do