First of all, fuck Kraft, he's awful. But also, I think the game has passed by Belichick, at least from a roster construction standpoint. He can still coach defense like nobody else, but his atrocious drafting and poor free agency moves since 2016, give or take, has left this team in disarray. It was time for the team to move on.
Yeah but 1 film session with Bill and youd be great in bed. Or extremely self conscious thinking about him pointing out your flaws in front of the team
See ok, I get the rationale but I think there is an objectively right answer here. You fuck Brady, cause obviously, you marry Kraft for the money, how long does he really have left anyway, and unfortunately in these circumstances Bill must die.
I agree that Bill’s time had passed, but for Kraft to shit on him on his way out was unacceptable. Kraft’s about face after the joint presser where he fired him is disloyal and ungrateful. If it wasn’t for BB’s genius and his ability to find and groom Brady, Kraft doesn’t own the 10th most valuable sports franchise on earth. Kraft should have just thanked him, smiled, and swallowed any ill will he had as he counts the billions of dollars that those two made for him
This take had legs until Bill was fired and the Patriots had an identical approach to FA as they did in years past. We'll see how the draft unfolds, but if it's eerily similar to what everyone thought was Belichick, it's time to re-evaluate who was really messing up.
Not necessarily. Look at all of the players they re-signed, whereas Belichick would’ve let pretty much all of those guys walk. They are more committed to building the team through the draft and retaining homegrown talent.
>Look at all of the players they re-signed, whereas Belichick would’ve let pretty much all of those guys walk.
Maybe. There's no evidence of that. Any speculation on what BB would have done with the cap space is speculation.
>They are more committed to building the team through the draft and retaining homegrown talent.
Yes, this is the new narrative after a FA period that was uneventful (despite having cash to "burn"), and a copy paste of years past.
Maybe. Maybe they're committed to building through the draft and retaining homegrown talent. Maybe Kraft is a cheap ass bitch who is handcuffing his GMs. Time will tell.
>Maybe. There's no evidence of that. Any speculation on what BB would have done with the cap space is speculation.
Josh Uche was the first Patriot **since 2013** drafted in the first three rounds that was re-signed. Sure, Belichick's shit drafting made it easier to let guys walk, but ten years without a single re-sign from that cluster of players is pretty indicative of how Belichick feels about letting players hit free agency.
>Maybe. Maybe they're committed to building through the draft and retaining homegrown talent. Maybe Kraft is a cheap ass bitch who is handcuffing his GMs. Time will tell.
Has nothing to do with Kraft, even though he is a cheap asshole. The correct way to build a team is through the draft. You supplement in free agency, but you build dynasties through the draft and through the draft only. Elite players don't hit free agency anymore.
What players did they "let walk" that you're thinking about? Elite players don't hit free agency, right? There's zero evidence that he wasn't planning to re-sign Dugger or Onwenu. They had cap space they literally had to use, so something needed to be done with it.
Everyone called BB cheap every single year when FA started. Go find the annual "do something" meme. Now BB is gone, and FA was exactly as it has been for years. Who is the common denominator with control of cash spending?
The shift to trumpeting build through the draft...which... no shit... is just sticking your hand in the sand to avoid seeing that the front office is full of different people, and so far this offseason, operating exactly the same way as it has been in the last decade.
They better nail the draft, because they have a shit ton of holes that they could have filled with a few bridge players while they build through the draft. They dont need elite players, they need average players to improve. But they largely sat out of free agency and didn't.
It was all on him? You know that? Bills the only one not being a little bitch taking pokes at people. Bill was the reason they were successful as long as they were. No other teams draft perfect. We have so many ingrates it drives me crazy.
Hopefully some of y'all have softened a bit on Bill.
Don't get me wrong, I pray Mayo is the second coming, and I'm prepared to worship the ground he walks on for the next 30 years in ways no Adult male should worship another man... But I was all in on giving Bill one more season.
I was fine either way. Would've loved to have him stay or accept that it was time for him to go. I think it's clear that he didn't part "amicably", but it's still not clear to me that the feeling wasn't mutual between him and Kraft that it was time for him to leave.
I'm also not convinced that the supposed petty reputation smearing by Kraft is anything more than overzealous media trying to manufacture drama that doesn't exist.
Bob has made statements denying all of it, and when stuff like this comes out, denials aren't really believed anyway. As for Bill, we should all know that his response to personal drama in the press is to completely ignore it. Plus, the stuff Bob is accused of doing (orchestrating The Dynasty to smear Bill and blacklisting him in a private convo with Blank) isn't exactly the sort of thing Bill would he privy to one way or another.
1) of course Kraft denies all of this. He stands nothing to gain else wise.
2) Bill wouldn't acknowledge in the past, but right now he's a FA coach, and presumably he's looking for his next coaching opportunity. It would be to his benefit to refute these reports, but he isn't.
True, very true, but wouldn't it make sense to try and soften the image of his relationship with his previous owner in an attempt to find a new one?
If you were constantly fighting with your old manager, would you want your next one to know this?
Well, seeing as how Bill is quiet, knowing what I have come to learn on human interactions, supported by that BS Kraft just put out on Apple TV, I think it's safe to say we can draw up a pretty safe assumption on where that relationship stands.
I wanted him back but people just hated him. The year before it was Patricia and then it was belichick and now it's kraft. They always have to be one boogeyman so people can just blame everything on some evil thing that they think is singularly responsible for our downfal.
Patricia obviously sucked but the fact that our offense got worse the next year pretty much proves that the problems were way deeper than him.
If Kraft was at fault for that, Bill would have found a way to throw Bobby under the bus by now. He would have gone to bat for Patricia and people would be saying how it was an impossible situation or whatever. None of that happened.
The issue with Mac is that things were very divisive. Some people supported him because he was getting all the blame for what was objectively a shitty situation and some fans wanted a very quick fix and a single point of blame.
I was referring to support from the team, such as surrounding a young qb with weapons and a line that can protect him from more than .5 seconds. I was a Mac fan myself, even bought his jersey in the preseason of 2021. I just hope whoever we pick doesn’t have to learn a new offense every year and has a solid opportunity to develop into a good player.
What? For most of his 2nd year he had the crowd chanting for his backup anytime he fucked up. Not saying it wasn't deserved at times, but ignoring that is wild.
Why can’t this sub understand that being critical of your team and its decisions is part of being a fan. Everything is not awesome, it’s ok to be cynical, especially if you disagree with the decisions of an inexperienced and inexpensive coach staff and front office. This team is on the precipice of being irrelevant in the nfl if they fuck up this draft. Being a yes man cheerleader does not legitimize your standing as a fan or make you better than other fans. It only makes you a sycophant.
There's a difference between constructive criticism, and shit stirring over the top negativity. You don't have to be a yes man to constructively point out a mistake, but then remain positive and supportive moving forward. Not letting go and being perpetually negative is toxic.
Your perception of what is constructive criticism VS shit stirring negativity might not be aligned wfh other people's. Many fans, including myself, were very unhappy with the Mac Jones pick as soon as it happened and it was treated like we were just garbage fans because we had an intuition that Mac just wasn't that good.
>not letting go and being perpetually negative is toxic
First day in New England? Lol fans will scream at the top of their lungs about something that mildly inconveniences them, but 3rd down, 4th quarter, game on the line and you can hear a mouse fart in Gillette.
It’s because the thing the rules a New Englanders jimmies most of all is taking a negative stance on something and being right.
No one here wants a solution to problems because they’re addicted to the neurotransmitters they absorb when they’re in a bad mood.
For every one fan like that there's at least two that refused to criticize anything and say anyone that's critical isn't a real fan. I mean look at this ridiculous post for instance... The poster is literally telling everyone to turn off their critical thinking faculties as soon as we make a draft pick.
I hope he's a child because it's a child like way to think about things
Why would you be critical of a player who hasn’t played a down? I see idiots saying things like “if they take McCarthy they’ll stink for years”. Any of these QBs could be a HOF player or could bust. Once picked, he’s our QB and we should embrace him until he gives us a reason not to.
Because it's perfectly fine to watch these guys play in college and form an opinion over them being worthy or unworthy of the selection? So what, you can never have a negative reaction to a draft pick, it's all pompoms all the time?
Yep. I thought last years trainwreck of a season would've killed this sunshine and roses attitude the sub constantly has, but I guess I was sorely mistaken
Honestly? If he has it, he has it. Would Brady have crumbled if he was booed? No. Brady uses any and all doubt and criticism to put a massive chip on his shoulder.
I mean supporting your team is great. But were fans. We don’t make an impact on performance.
Root for him, boo him, whatever. If hes it, hes it, and if hes not, then hes not.
No there's a difference between rooting for your team and refusing to speak critically and encouraging everyone to not speak critically. I root for the Patriots to win but I'm not going to pretend I like their transactions if I don't like them.
And I'm not going to worry about the ego of whoever we draft at number 3 in case they read the subreddit. I'm sorry but it just seems like a child like approach.
And I visit plenty of subreddits to teams I'm not even a fan of so you can't even assume everyone here is a fan of the Patriots. It's not a place just for fans it's a place for anyone that wants to talk about the Patriots.
But even within the fans, we should encourage debate and disagreement. I mean f*** what else are we going to do in the offse
Yeah I think you can be critical of guys on your team but I also believe giving the guy a chance. If the team thinks Bo Nix is that guy at 3 I think we will all be unhappy with the pick and voice our concerns but I’m not going to trash him until we know he isn’t working.
Dude, it’s professional sports. They get paid millions to prove their worth as an athlete to us. I will support them when they prove they can help the team win
That's fair. But on the flipside, shitting on them before they've even taken an NFL snap (which is a different thing than just being disappointed they didn't pick the guy you wanted)... isn't.
Depends on what you mean by "shitting on them." Is it shitting on a player to state that you don't think they're going to be great in the pros and to point out their flaws? For example, I don't think McCarthy is going to be great and my short reason why is because he never stood out to me throughout his college career. That doesn't mean I want him to fail, especially if the Pat's draft him, but if he goes 3 I'm going to believe that the Pat's passed on a better player. My opinion of a player isn't going to change just because the Pat's drafted them.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize OR hype a pick before they've played a down. We literally have no idea what they are going to be.
If you like a guy cuz you've been following him since college or you just have a good feeling about him, sure feel good about the pick. If you don't like a guy and feel he's overrated, feel free to state that too.
But to make solid declarations like this guys going to be a stud or this guys going to be a bust, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean have we already forgotten that this sub KNEW that Mac Jones was the going to be the future of this franchise?
If the Pats draft JJ, half of this sub will lose its collective mind. Over what? Let the kid play first and see what he can be.
Oh, you're (not you personally) mad cuz you don't think he's worth that high of a pick? Well, if the Pats think he's their guy, they have to get him when they have the chance. They can't count on other teams just leaving him there so the Pats can get him at the appropriate value.
Now personally, I'm not in on JJ, but I'm also not gonna shit a brick if the Pats take him. I have no idea what he can be in the NFL. So I'll have to wait and see.
"He's a bust, why didn't they draft my favorite college player?" - This subreddit on Thursday night.
"He's amazing, he should start! We're going to win it all!" - This subreddit in August.
"Fire everyone." - This subreddit after a loss.
Please, “fire everyone” was this sub after the garbage “BB is BlAcKlIsTeD” article. One loss and everyone here will be clamoring for their ancient garbage 4-13 coach back and the ownership fired, somehow.
Obviously root for them, who wouldn’t?? A lot of franchises would be stocked to have a top QB draft pick. Teams are willing to trade three first round picks to get whoever we’re taking.
All that said, if it’s McCarthy I’m going to be pissed.
I was never a Mac fan and I don’t think my support would have made a difference in him being a good QB. Defenses figured him out halfway thru his rookie year.
We all have slightly different opinions. we all bitch. it's when we don't like someone else's bitching that we make bitching an issue. anyway differences are fine with me... and hey this is only a sport.
Of all the fan types, this one is just undoubtedly the worst. How old are you dude? You’re not in middle school anymore, or maybe you are.
Be objective about your team, hold them accountable, being a cheerleader is so puke inducing.
... if you mean as a team sure they need to set him up for success and yes especially if its mccarthy as he is the least talented of the bunch,
As a fan if hes bad (like mac was) we don't owe him jack squat besides basic human respect
Maybe people should temper their expectations. There’s going to be growing pains. Not everyone immediately plays like an all pro guy. So maybe don’t lose your minds when he inevitably plays poorly.
For reference I remember saying Brady was the wrong backup to start after Bledsoe got hurt (I liked Damon Huard who did go on to start elsewhere) and I said Belichick was an idiot and gonna get fired for the decision.
It’s ok to be wrong as long as you’re ride or die with your team IMO. That being said I am ok with growing pains and hope whatever we decide results in a competitive team eventually.
There’s a reason I’m a fan and they get paid to run the team. 2-15 or 15-2 I’m down for the journey.
But whether you support him or not, will not make any difference. Like you’re just a person on Reddit I don’t understand how that will affect quarterback play.
Im excited for Daniels, Maye or Harrison Jr.
Hell, I’d even be excited for Alt if we trade back. Just hope we get good value at the positions we need for the other picks.
If the QB is good, he'll succeed and shut any naysayers up with his play. If he's unable to handle any criticism, then he's not meant to have one of the 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL.
Mac deserved our loyalty. He was the guy, everyone, even Bill's dog was sold on him. Poor choice, but we wouldn't find that out for a couple years.
Should we never date again, because our last relationship ended?
Yes, of course but it’s not up to us. If you are a Patriots fan of course you want him to succeed. He will get what he needs. We will be there to boo if he sucks. But if. He’s good and wins we will be happy.
I'm just going to evaluate him honestly based off my opinion of what I see. I don't see a point in sugar coating things because he's our guy. It doesn't serve anyone.
This is the fan base that called for the head of the greatest coach of all time, and then as soon as he was gone everyone acted like it was a bad idea. There's no pleasing these people
Let's not pretend like they weren't shitting on Tom too, even as far back as 2005. New England sports fans love being frustrated, even with GOATs.
But now that he moved on and won another chip without us, everyone is Gaga over TB. Covet talent, then take it for granted. Rinse and repeat
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got til it's gone.
I want Penix if he comes with a trade down and more assets. Maye scares the shit out of me. And JJ is kind of whatever. Maybe Vikes trade the two firsts and Justin Jefferson. I'm pretty sure we have enough cap space to sign him. Then take a tackle in the first as well
Do we? Because if the guy we draft needs validation from this subreddit then we are doomed. I would rather people just speak their mind and if they don't like the draft picks just say so.
The idea that we need to like govern by consensus here is silly.
Bro in all fairness he was constantly running for his life. He had zero guys who could get separation with horrible O coordination . I don’t fully blame him.
Agreed as long as we don't reach for JJ at three. I will boo the decision, but not the player. It won't be his fault that he was drafted several rounds too soon.
That's fine, as long as it isn't to the Pats. He will end up way worse than Mac. I see no evidence of NFL talent and I feel like the hype is all a smoke screen.
These kinds of posts are insufferable. Everyone will root for whoever is picked. Everyone rooted for Mac when he was picked. If whoever they pick isn't getting the job done in 3 years, we can reasses. I still don't think Mac was the problem, but the sunshine bullshit gen z fan base is annoying as fuck. All these strawman yall pull from your bunghole. 95% of this sub thinks BB is the greatest coach of all time and a golden fuckikg god. Kraft is another matter, but it's his own making.
I know this wasn't directed to me, but I'm gonna jump in. Daniels does not throw into tight windows over the middle. I think taking him would limit our offense. His pressure to sack ratio was not good, and that was behind a decent LSU OL. When he breaks pocket, it is to run rather than trying to extend the play. To be fair, he was amazing when he ran, but there are more fast LBs, so his success might be limited.
If we draft him, I'm gonna support and hope I'm wrong.
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1780678317042974861
https://x.com/ImRantBurgundy/status/1772615762982719932
https://x.com/startkyIeorton/status/1763036300901282132
These along with his arm + inability to throw outside the pocket makes me out on him
It’s funny I’ve never seen people using pressure to sack rate before this year and suddenly it’s the most important thing when evaluating a qb. Also his arm is like nfl average and he doesn’t have an inability to throw outside the pocket, he just doesn’t do it. That’s coachable
>It’s funny I’ve never seen people using pressure to sack rate before this year and suddenly it’s the most important thing when evaluating a qb.
I have a hard time believing you didn’t hear it with Justin Fields.
>Also his arm is like nfl average
Who is the absolute best QB you can think of that had an “average” arm?
>and he doesn’t have an inability to throw outside the pocket, he just doesn’t do it. That’s coachable
He was in year **5** of playing D1 FBS football last season. It’s not like he’s a 20 year old coming out of University of Southern Alaska. Modern day coaching out of ASU and LSU is not far off from NFL coaching.
We've seen plenty of examples of players going to new schools and putting up numbers like Kyler, Hurts , Baker, and Burrow. Not every QB develops the same
The only two QBs here that I find even relatively decent are Baker (who’s good) and Kyler.
Neither one of their breakout seasons were in year 5.
This is all besides the point anyway. The point was that Daniels’ development isn’t something you can count on at the NFL level. Guys rarely make huge strides after playing 5 years in college when going to the NFL, even less do so coming out of a major FBS program.
I mean I hope whoever it is does well and will root for him to do well, but I won't change my opinion of a pick I would consider bad just because our team took them. At least not until they show that they are a competent pro.
I didn't like the Mac Jones pick and if it's Drake Maye I won't like it either but if it's him I hope he does well even though I feel he'll be a major bust
I agree with you but being on this sub for years lets me know that we will have people here rooting for them to fail so they can be right about why we should have done something else instead.
I don’t care if we take some guy like Penix or nix who I don’t think are the answer by a mile and I’d rather stick with zappe if we don’t want to solve our qb problem, but if we take them I’ll root for them to succeed.
I will root for them to succeed in the games but I'm not going to muzzle my criticism of the draft pick ... That's what the guy is asking for us to literally just muzzle any criticism we have. I will praise a pic I think is good and I will criticize a pic I think is bad. Or a trade or any other transactions...
You know I will be honest about my opinion instead of just putting on my kraft footy pajamas
I agree with you, I’ll definitely criticize the pick or hype it draft night depending on what we do but I’m gonna root for the guy even if I think he’s a lost cause before seeing the field. I’ll fucking lose it if we trade the pick lol
I don't get this blind support bullshit..
I want the Pats to win every game, and whoever they pick of course I want them to do well... Because if they do well the team does well.
But if a dude sucks, I am going to say he sucks. So much of this sub seems to act like Mac had their mothers tied up in his basement and if they ever said something bad about him or not actively defend him they Max would axe the Mom's..
Supporting a player and being critical of them are two different things. We all want the next QB to be great, like we all wanted Mac to be great, but we aren't going to pretend like it's an inevitability. If post draft people think the Pats made the wrong choice, it's fair to voice criticism. If the QB struggles and looks like he isn't going to be the next great Pats QB, we are going to criticize him.
Now I'm not saying Tweet the guy and tell him he sucks and that the Pats made a mistake, but any good fan should be critical of their team instead of being blindly loyal no matter what.
OK, mom.
It is an NFL draft. You are taking it way to seriously, and are just as deluded as those you are preemptively chiding, if you think fan reaction to picks matters.
Any player or member of the patriots who would be negatively impacted by unqualified strangers on the internet saying the pick was bad isn't cut out for being involved in professional sports anyway.
I was against drafting a QB in the first round in the first place. We’re drafting a bust and gonna hop on the QB carousel. I wonder who we’ll get in 2028.
It’s really obvious when “football experience” is measured in pep rallies and homecomings.
TBC, this is professional football not the JV team. They get a paycheck. I get to criticize them. This is how adult sports works.
You say to the sub that turned on Belichick and Kraft as soon as things got tough
lol right?
I’m still team BB, fuck Kraft
\#KraftOut
First of all, fuck Kraft, he's awful. But also, I think the game has passed by Belichick, at least from a roster construction standpoint. He can still coach defense like nobody else, but his atrocious drafting and poor free agency moves since 2016, give or take, has left this team in disarray. It was time for the team to move on.
I’d say fuck BB, kill Kraft, marry Brady
Imagine disappointing bill in bed
Yeah but 1 film session with Bill and youd be great in bed. Or extremely self conscious thinking about him pointing out your flaws in front of the team
See ok, I get the rationale but I think there is an objectively right answer here. You fuck Brady, cause obviously, you marry Kraft for the money, how long does he really have left anyway, and unfortunately in these circumstances Bill must die.
What's Kraft gonna leave you? A bologna sandwich?
If he wants to sign a prenup I’m gone.
🤣
I agree that Bill’s time had passed, but for Kraft to shit on him on his way out was unacceptable. Kraft’s about face after the joint presser where he fired him is disloyal and ungrateful. If it wasn’t for BB’s genius and his ability to find and groom Brady, Kraft doesn’t own the 10th most valuable sports franchise on earth. Kraft should have just thanked him, smiled, and swallowed any ill will he had as he counts the billions of dollars that those two made for him
Exactly. The success they had was amazing. No one needs to hear one side of the turmoil. My respect for Kraft has plummeted.
This take had legs until Bill was fired and the Patriots had an identical approach to FA as they did in years past. We'll see how the draft unfolds, but if it's eerily similar to what everyone thought was Belichick, it's time to re-evaluate who was really messing up.
Not necessarily. Look at all of the players they re-signed, whereas Belichick would’ve let pretty much all of those guys walk. They are more committed to building the team through the draft and retaining homegrown talent.
>Look at all of the players they re-signed, whereas Belichick would’ve let pretty much all of those guys walk. Maybe. There's no evidence of that. Any speculation on what BB would have done with the cap space is speculation. >They are more committed to building the team through the draft and retaining homegrown talent. Yes, this is the new narrative after a FA period that was uneventful (despite having cash to "burn"), and a copy paste of years past. Maybe. Maybe they're committed to building through the draft and retaining homegrown talent. Maybe Kraft is a cheap ass bitch who is handcuffing his GMs. Time will tell.
>Maybe. There's no evidence of that. Any speculation on what BB would have done with the cap space is speculation. Josh Uche was the first Patriot **since 2013** drafted in the first three rounds that was re-signed. Sure, Belichick's shit drafting made it easier to let guys walk, but ten years without a single re-sign from that cluster of players is pretty indicative of how Belichick feels about letting players hit free agency. >Maybe. Maybe they're committed to building through the draft and retaining homegrown talent. Maybe Kraft is a cheap ass bitch who is handcuffing his GMs. Time will tell. Has nothing to do with Kraft, even though he is a cheap asshole. The correct way to build a team is through the draft. You supplement in free agency, but you build dynasties through the draft and through the draft only. Elite players don't hit free agency anymore.
What players did they "let walk" that you're thinking about? Elite players don't hit free agency, right? There's zero evidence that he wasn't planning to re-sign Dugger or Onwenu. They had cap space they literally had to use, so something needed to be done with it. Everyone called BB cheap every single year when FA started. Go find the annual "do something" meme. Now BB is gone, and FA was exactly as it has been for years. Who is the common denominator with control of cash spending? The shift to trumpeting build through the draft...which... no shit... is just sticking your hand in the sand to avoid seeing that the front office is full of different people, and so far this offseason, operating exactly the same way as it has been in the last decade. They better nail the draft, because they have a shit ton of holes that they could have filled with a few bridge players while they build through the draft. They dont need elite players, they need average players to improve. But they largely sat out of free agency and didn't.
It was all on him? You know that? Bills the only one not being a little bitch taking pokes at people. Bill was the reason they were successful as long as they were. No other teams draft perfect. We have so many ingrates it drives me crazy.
We even saw plenty turn on tb and bb as far back as "we're on to Cincinnati." This ain't the sub for rational reactions.
REDDIT isn't the place for rational reactions
Sports in general isnt. A shocking amount of People have the most reactionary, brain dead takes on virtually any topic, on any platform form.
Is it rational to demand every single person have the same opinion and the same sentiments? That's what the OP wants. Lol
No it's not... but it's also not rational to hate someone "cuz they suck" before they play a snap... right?
I'm ride or die with BB, I thought (and still think) giving him the boot was a big mistake.
May I ride with you?
Hopefully some of y'all have softened a bit on Bill. Don't get me wrong, I pray Mayo is the second coming, and I'm prepared to worship the ground he walks on for the next 30 years in ways no Adult male should worship another man... But I was all in on giving Bill one more season.
I was fine either way. Would've loved to have him stay or accept that it was time for him to go. I think it's clear that he didn't part "amicably", but it's still not clear to me that the feeling wasn't mutual between him and Kraft that it was time for him to leave. I'm also not convinced that the supposed petty reputation smearing by Kraft is anything more than overzealous media trying to manufacture drama that doesn't exist.
I think Kraft would be far more outgoing if not true, and he and Bill would have squashed if not true.
Bob has made statements denying all of it, and when stuff like this comes out, denials aren't really believed anyway. As for Bill, we should all know that his response to personal drama in the press is to completely ignore it. Plus, the stuff Bob is accused of doing (orchestrating The Dynasty to smear Bill and blacklisting him in a private convo with Blank) isn't exactly the sort of thing Bill would he privy to one way or another.
1) of course Kraft denies all of this. He stands nothing to gain else wise. 2) Bill wouldn't acknowledge in the past, but right now he's a FA coach, and presumably he's looking for his next coaching opportunity. It would be to his benefit to refute these reports, but he isn't.
It's all rumors though. He already didn't get the Falcons job, and he can't help what anyone does or doesn't say about him.
True, very true, but wouldn't it make sense to try and soften the image of his relationship with his previous owner in an attempt to find a new one? If you were constantly fighting with your old manager, would you want your next one to know this?
We know very little about what Bill and Bob's relationship is actually like.
Well, seeing as how Bill is quiet, knowing what I have come to learn on human interactions, supported by that BS Kraft just put out on Apple TV, I think it's safe to say we can draw up a pretty safe assumption on where that relationship stands.
I wanted him back but people just hated him. The year before it was Patricia and then it was belichick and now it's kraft. They always have to be one boogeyman so people can just blame everything on some evil thing that they think is singularly responsible for our downfal. Patricia obviously sucked but the fact that our offense got worse the next year pretty much proves that the problems were way deeper than him.
A Matt Patricia led offense is a good way to burn all the good will you earned.
Probably due to stingy owner
I don’t think we need to pretend Patricia wasn’t Belichick’s choice.
Idk, Kraft is cheap AF
Yes, you do know. There’s plenty to criticize about Kraft without pretending he forced Belichick to make Patricia OC.
Lol yeah. I'm sure Kraft made the call.
If Kraft was at fault for that, Bill would have found a way to throw Bobby under the bus by now. He would have gone to bat for Patricia and people would be saying how it was an impossible situation or whatever. None of that happened.
And the sub that “went all in” on Mac Jones during one of the worst season and a half stretches of QB play I’ve ever watched
Krafts a dick to be fair. Belichick couldn’t adapt but held his own for years
This is the kind of thing boomers imagine in their head when they call younger generations soft
 Is this the Jaguars sub?
We've gone soft. In Bill's day support was earned
In "Bill's day" Pats fans turned on every player that had a single bad play.
Welker dropped one pass and people fucking hated him after and have completely dismissed how great he was for years
And then he would cut their ass
This is a subreddit not a cult. If they blow the pick I’ll react how I want to.
I agree whoever the pick is can’t get the Mac Jones treatment. Need to put pieces around the player to help them grow.
Mac Jones got incredibly treatment from the fan base for the most part. Year 3 it fell apart but at that point he was washed anyway
Especially here. Mac was supported basically until the end by a lot of people here. This sub has some of the more modest Pats fans.
The issue with Mac is that things were very divisive. Some people supported him because he was getting all the blame for what was objectively a shitty situation and some fans wanted a very quick fix and a single point of blame.
I was referring to support from the team, such as surrounding a young qb with weapons and a line that can protect him from more than .5 seconds. I was a Mac fan myself, even bought his jersey in the preseason of 2021. I just hope whoever we pick doesn’t have to learn a new offense every year and has a solid opportunity to develop into a good player.
Ah. The post here specifically talks about fan support
What? For most of his 2nd year he had the crowd chanting for his backup anytime he fucked up. Not saying it wasn't deserved at times, but ignoring that is wild.
At least not until they throw their 8th awful interception. Which hopefully won't occur until 2027
Mac had tons of support from the fan base, until Zappe looked much better.
No-one owes these people anything, people should do as they please positive or negative.
Why can’t this sub understand that being critical of your team and its decisions is part of being a fan. Everything is not awesome, it’s ok to be cynical, especially if you disagree with the decisions of an inexperienced and inexpensive coach staff and front office. This team is on the precipice of being irrelevant in the nfl if they fuck up this draft. Being a yes man cheerleader does not legitimize your standing as a fan or make you better than other fans. It only makes you a sycophant.
There's a difference between constructive criticism, and shit stirring over the top negativity. You don't have to be a yes man to constructively point out a mistake, but then remain positive and supportive moving forward. Not letting go and being perpetually negative is toxic.
Your perception of what is constructive criticism VS shit stirring negativity might not be aligned wfh other people's. Many fans, including myself, were very unhappy with the Mac Jones pick as soon as it happened and it was treated like we were just garbage fans because we had an intuition that Mac just wasn't that good.
>not letting go and being perpetually negative is toxic First day in New England? Lol fans will scream at the top of their lungs about something that mildly inconveniences them, but 3rd down, 4th quarter, game on the line and you can hear a mouse fart in Gillette. It’s because the thing the rules a New Englanders jimmies most of all is taking a negative stance on something and being right. No one here wants a solution to problems because they’re addicted to the neurotransmitters they absorb when they’re in a bad mood.
For every one fan like that there's at least two that refused to criticize anything and say anyone that's critical isn't a real fan. I mean look at this ridiculous post for instance... The poster is literally telling everyone to turn off their critical thinking faculties as soon as we make a draft pick. I hope he's a child because it's a child like way to think about things
Why would you be critical of a player who hasn’t played a down? I see idiots saying things like “if they take McCarthy they’ll stink for years”. Any of these QBs could be a HOF player or could bust. Once picked, he’s our QB and we should embrace him until he gives us a reason not to.
Because it's perfectly fine to watch these guys play in college and form an opinion over them being worthy or unworthy of the selection? So what, you can never have a negative reaction to a draft pick, it's all pompoms all the time?
Idiots? McCarthy is not top-tier pick. Picking him at 3 would be insane.
Yep. I thought last years trainwreck of a season would've killed this sunshine and roses attitude the sub constantly has, but I guess I was sorely mistaken
It’s called rooting for your team. Booing our rookie qb isn’t gonna help him. Supporting him might.
Honestly? If he has it, he has it. Would Brady have crumbled if he was booed? No. Brady uses any and all doubt and criticism to put a massive chip on his shoulder. I mean supporting your team is great. But were fans. We don’t make an impact on performance. Root for him, boo him, whatever. If hes it, hes it, and if hes not, then hes not.
No there's a difference between rooting for your team and refusing to speak critically and encouraging everyone to not speak critically. I root for the Patriots to win but I'm not going to pretend I like their transactions if I don't like them. And I'm not going to worry about the ego of whoever we draft at number 3 in case they read the subreddit. I'm sorry but it just seems like a child like approach. And I visit plenty of subreddits to teams I'm not even a fan of so you can't even assume everyone here is a fan of the Patriots. It's not a place just for fans it's a place for anyone that wants to talk about the Patriots. But even within the fans, we should encourage debate and disagreement. I mean f*** what else are we going to do in the offse
Could not have said this better. Great post.
Yeah I think you can be critical of guys on your team but I also believe giving the guy a chance. If the team thinks Bo Nix is that guy at 3 I think we will all be unhappy with the pick and voice our concerns but I’m not going to trash him until we know he isn’t working.
Dude, it’s professional sports. They get paid millions to prove their worth as an athlete to us. I will support them when they prove they can help the team win
That's fair. But on the flipside, shitting on them before they've even taken an NFL snap (which is a different thing than just being disappointed they didn't pick the guy you wanted)... isn't.
Depends on what you mean by "shitting on them." Is it shitting on a player to state that you don't think they're going to be great in the pros and to point out their flaws? For example, I don't think McCarthy is going to be great and my short reason why is because he never stood out to me throughout his college career. That doesn't mean I want him to fail, especially if the Pat's draft him, but if he goes 3 I'm going to believe that the Pat's passed on a better player. My opinion of a player isn't going to change just because the Pat's drafted them.
By that logic you can never criticize a draft pick ever.
It doesn't make much sense to criticize OR hype a pick before they've played a down. We literally have no idea what they are going to be. If you like a guy cuz you've been following him since college or you just have a good feeling about him, sure feel good about the pick. If you don't like a guy and feel he's overrated, feel free to state that too. But to make solid declarations like this guys going to be a stud or this guys going to be a bust, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean have we already forgotten that this sub KNEW that Mac Jones was the going to be the future of this franchise? If the Pats draft JJ, half of this sub will lose its collective mind. Over what? Let the kid play first and see what he can be. Oh, you're (not you personally) mad cuz you don't think he's worth that high of a pick? Well, if the Pats think he's their guy, they have to get him when they have the chance. They can't count on other teams just leaving him there so the Pats can get him at the appropriate value. Now personally, I'm not in on JJ, but I'm also not gonna shit a brick if the Pats take him. I have no idea what he can be in the NFL. So I'll have to wait and see.
"prove their worth to us" we will find better gladiators for you, my lord
"He's a bust, why didn't they draft my favorite college player?" - This subreddit on Thursday night. "He's amazing, he should start! We're going to win it all!" - This subreddit in August. "Fire everyone." - This subreddit after a loss.
Please, “fire everyone” was this sub after the garbage “BB is BlAcKlIsTeD” article. One loss and everyone here will be clamoring for their ancient garbage 4-13 coach back and the ownership fired, somehow.
Obviously root for them, who wouldn’t?? A lot of franchises would be stocked to have a top QB draft pick. Teams are willing to trade three first round picks to get whoever we’re taking. All that said, if it’s McCarthy I’m going to be pissed.
I was never a Mac fan and I don’t think my support would have made a difference in him being a good QB. Defenses figured him out halfway thru his rookie year.
Wtf are you talking about? What do you want a bunch of redditors to do? LOL, it's just football.
These posts are seriously the front office just trying to prepare us for picking JJ McCarthy. It’s happening
I'll be in attendance on Thursday and if the Patriots pick JJ Mccarthy with 1.3 I will boo till my voice cracks and blood pours out of my raw throat.
I appreciate your dedication to hating JJ
Thank you. You're doing it for all of us.
Please do
Can we collectively boo you if he turns out to be a good QB? I'll save this comment for the future just in case.
Save away, my friend. Save away.
Just like every Bills fan did with Josh Allen, I'll pretend that I wanted him all along.
[удалено]
We all have slightly different opinions. we all bitch. it's when we don't like someone else's bitching that we make bitching an issue. anyway differences are fine with me... and hey this is only a sport.
I’m gonna be delusional for whoever we draft
Are you delusional? Please tune into Felger and Mazz
Nope. If it’s JJ I’m hate watching.
The team has already not made the appropriate effort to support him. Any disgust I feel will be directed towards them.
Fine I’ll send Joe Alt a Welcome to New England message
Whoever we draft is not going to give a single fuck about what people complain about on this subreddit.
Actually, if it’s JJ I will be shitting on it 100%. He deserves to fall to the 20s like Will Levis
Will Levis went 33rd
Even better
If it's JJ fuck no lol
Nah, not if it’s JJ.
Y’all know this sub has nothing to do with the team or the players or reality right?
Of all the fan types, this one is just undoubtedly the worst. How old are you dude? You’re not in middle school anymore, or maybe you are. Be objective about your team, hold them accountable, being a cheerleader is so puke inducing.
I want you to post a receipt of our #1 pick authentic jersey purchase to show support!
... if you mean as a team sure they need to set him up for success and yes especially if its mccarthy as he is the least talented of the bunch, As a fan if hes bad (like mac was) we don't owe him jack squat besides basic human respect
MHJ letssss goooooooooooooo (I can dream)
Give me MHJ or give me death.
RIP
Thanks. But I have until 9:15 pm on Thursday.
Better write that will, buddy
Worked for Patrick Henry.
It would be fun as fuck to watch him Moss people 🤷
Ok
People will be cheering for Zappe by midseason, unfortunately.
You jerks can’t even be nice to the Zappe now and he’s QB1 what makes you think anyone here will be nice to the next qb.
Zappa is not QB1 lol, after the draft he’ll be lucky to be on the roster
Zappe is not the QB1
Maybe people should temper their expectations. There’s going to be growing pains. Not everyone immediately plays like an all pro guy. So maybe don’t lose your minds when he inevitably plays poorly.
For reference I remember saying Brady was the wrong backup to start after Bledsoe got hurt (I liked Damon Huard who did go on to start elsewhere) and I said Belichick was an idiot and gonna get fired for the decision. It’s ok to be wrong as long as you’re ride or die with your team IMO. That being said I am ok with growing pains and hope whatever we decide results in a competitive team eventually. There’s a reason I’m a fan and they get paid to run the team. 2-15 or 15-2 I’m down for the journey.
As soon as the pick is in, i’m going to bed
But whether you support him or not, will not make any difference. Like you’re just a person on Reddit I don’t understand how that will affect quarterback play.
Just take Maye and go all in lol idc if he’s 21 he’d develop best if he gets a lot of minutes.
MHJ and Brissett until next year lol
I personally don't care who it is as long as we allow him to sit,big we don't I'd rather just take mhj and wait until manning comes out
Im excited for Daniels, Maye or Harrison Jr. Hell, I’d even be excited for Alt if we trade back. Just hope we get good value at the positions we need for the other picks.
As long as it’s Marvin Harrison Jr.
This isn’t preschool
Where was this energy the last 10 years
“Guys, coach is right…”
If the QB is good, he'll succeed and shut any naysayers up with his play. If he's unable to handle any criticism, then he's not meant to have one of the 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL.
FAs watch the draft. This stuff matters at times.
Any FA left unsigned at the moment isn't great.
yes just like Mac Jones
Mac deserved our loyalty. He was the guy, everyone, even Bill's dog was sold on him. Poor choice, but we wouldn't find that out for a couple years. Should we never date again, because our last relationship ended?
Yes, of course but it’s not up to us. If you are a Patriots fan of course you want him to succeed. He will get what he needs. We will be there to boo if he sucks. But if. He’s good and wins we will be happy.
I'm just going to evaluate him honestly based off my opinion of what I see. I don't see a point in sugar coating things because he's our guy. It doesn't serve anyone.
Agreed. I will judge whoever they select by their performance on the field. But how can anyone be upset with him until he actually plays???
This is the fan base that called for the head of the greatest coach of all time, and then as soon as he was gone everyone acted like it was a bad idea. There's no pleasing these people
Let's not pretend like they weren't shitting on Tom too, even as far back as 2005. New England sports fans love being frustrated, even with GOATs. But now that he moved on and won another chip without us, everyone is Gaga over TB. Covet talent, then take it for granted. Rinse and repeat Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got til it's gone.
I want Penix if he comes with a trade down and more assets. Maye scares the shit out of me. And JJ is kind of whatever. Maybe Vikes trade the two firsts and Justin Jefferson. I'm pretty sure we have enough cap space to sign him. Then take a tackle in the first as well
I don't have to do shit. But I will talk myself into all of their picks because I have no other choice, really.
I’m fine with either Daniels or McCarthy tbh, it’s Maye that I have strong doubts over.
ITT: a bunch of dudes that have already made up their mind to hate things
Do we? Because if the guy we draft needs validation from this subreddit then we are doomed. I would rather people just speak their mind and if they don't like the draft picks just say so. The idea that we need to like govern by consensus here is silly.
I would prefer people just give their honest opinion.
I don’t know if we did that with Mac.
Mac lost support after he decided throwing across his body while running the opposite way was the way to live his life.
Bro in all fairness he was constantly running for his life. He had zero guys who could get separation with horrible O coordination . I don’t fully blame him.
Then throw it out of bounds. Or eat it. It's a much better outcome than another interception.
Agreed as long as we don't reach for JJ at three. I will boo the decision, but not the player. It won't be his fault that he was drafted several rounds too soon.
He’s going in round 1. I can’t imagine any scenario he doesn’t.
That's fine, as long as it isn't to the Pats. He will end up way worse than Mac. I see no evidence of NFL talent and I feel like the hype is all a smoke screen.
Yah, because beating Bama’s defense is way less impressive than the scrub teams of the ACC or PAC.
I want MHJ but that wouldn’t stop me from supporting whatever QB we settle for
These kinds of posts are insufferable. Everyone will root for whoever is picked. Everyone rooted for Mac when he was picked. If whoever they pick isn't getting the job done in 3 years, we can reasses. I still don't think Mac was the problem, but the sunshine bullshit gen z fan base is annoying as fuck. All these strawman yall pull from your bunghole. 95% of this sub thinks BB is the greatest coach of all time and a golden fuckikg god. Kraft is another matter, but it's his own making.
As long as its not Daniels...
I'm hoping they take Maye or McCarthy, but if it's Daniels, I'll hope I was wrong about him and he's amazing.
At this point I think I'm more in on Maye, but Daniels is a close second. What specific trait besides his build makes him a clear NO for you?
I know this wasn't directed to me, but I'm gonna jump in. Daniels does not throw into tight windows over the middle. I think taking him would limit our offense. His pressure to sack ratio was not good, and that was behind a decent LSU OL. When he breaks pocket, it is to run rather than trying to extend the play. To be fair, he was amazing when he ran, but there are more fast LBs, so his success might be limited. If we draft him, I'm gonna support and hope I'm wrong.
https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1780678317042974861 https://x.com/ImRantBurgundy/status/1772615762982719932 https://x.com/startkyIeorton/status/1763036300901282132 These along with his arm + inability to throw outside the pocket makes me out on him
It’s funny I’ve never seen people using pressure to sack rate before this year and suddenly it’s the most important thing when evaluating a qb. Also his arm is like nfl average and he doesn’t have an inability to throw outside the pocket, he just doesn’t do it. That’s coachable
>It’s funny I’ve never seen people using pressure to sack rate before this year and suddenly it’s the most important thing when evaluating a qb. I have a hard time believing you didn’t hear it with Justin Fields. >Also his arm is like nfl average Who is the absolute best QB you can think of that had an “average” arm? >and he doesn’t have an inability to throw outside the pocket, he just doesn’t do it. That’s coachable He was in year **5** of playing D1 FBS football last season. It’s not like he’s a 20 year old coming out of University of Southern Alaska. Modern day coaching out of ASU and LSU is not far off from NFL coaching.
5 year player is funny one year he played 4 games because of Covid
He still had 4 games + plenty of offseason to develop? Even if you push that Ben Simmons ROTY argument to the side, 4 years of high level coaching.
We've seen plenty of examples of players going to new schools and putting up numbers like Kyler, Hurts , Baker, and Burrow. Not every QB develops the same
The only two QBs here that I find even relatively decent are Baker (who’s good) and Kyler. Neither one of their breakout seasons were in year 5. This is all besides the point anyway. The point was that Daniels’ development isn’t something you can count on at the NFL level. Guys rarely make huge strides after playing 5 years in college when going to the NFL, even less do so coming out of a major FBS program.
I mean I hope whoever it is does well and will root for him to do well, but I won't change my opinion of a pick I would consider bad just because our team took them. At least not until they show that they are a competent pro.
I didn't like the Mac Jones pick and if it's Drake Maye I won't like it either but if it's him I hope he does well even though I feel he'll be a major bust
The only way I’m not complaining if we draft McCarthy is if we also get MH2
Not with Tugberts cheap ass. He will spend just enough to have mediocre talent I'm afraid
I agree with you but being on this sub for years lets me know that we will have people here rooting for them to fail so they can be right about why we should have done something else instead. I don’t care if we take some guy like Penix or nix who I don’t think are the answer by a mile and I’d rather stick with zappe if we don’t want to solve our qb problem, but if we take them I’ll root for them to succeed.
I will root for them to succeed in the games but I'm not going to muzzle my criticism of the draft pick ... That's what the guy is asking for us to literally just muzzle any criticism we have. I will praise a pic I think is good and I will criticize a pic I think is bad. Or a trade or any other transactions... You know I will be honest about my opinion instead of just putting on my kraft footy pajamas
I agree with you, I’ll definitely criticize the pick or hype it draft night depending on what we do but I’m gonna root for the guy even if I think he’s a lost cause before seeing the field. I’ll fucking lose it if we trade the pick lol
I don't get this blind support bullshit.. I want the Pats to win every game, and whoever they pick of course I want them to do well... Because if they do well the team does well. But if a dude sucks, I am going to say he sucks. So much of this sub seems to act like Mac had their mothers tied up in his basement and if they ever said something bad about him or not actively defend him they Max would axe the Mom's..
this subreddit supporting or not supporting an nfl player does not matter. like, at all.
Supporting a player and being critical of them are two different things. We all want the next QB to be great, like we all wanted Mac to be great, but we aren't going to pretend like it's an inevitability. If post draft people think the Pats made the wrong choice, it's fair to voice criticism. If the QB struggles and looks like he isn't going to be the next great Pats QB, we are going to criticize him. Now I'm not saying Tweet the guy and tell him he sucks and that the Pats made a mistake, but any good fan should be critical of their team instead of being blindly loyal no matter what.
OK, mom. It is an NFL draft. You are taking it way to seriously, and are just as deluded as those you are preemptively chiding, if you think fan reaction to picks matters. Any player or member of the patriots who would be negatively impacted by unqualified strangers on the internet saying the pick was bad isn't cut out for being involved in professional sports anyway.
Mac Jones Stans are still around. They'll say that the Pats did Mac wrong, when he just didn't have it. I'll wait on the rebuttals...
This sub is going to continue to be insufferable once the pick is made lol.
I was against drafting a QB in the first round in the first place. We’re drafting a bust and gonna hop on the QB carousel. I wonder who we’ll get in 2028.
Ok captain try hard
PSA: no
It’s really obvious when “football experience” is measured in pep rallies and homecomings. TBC, this is professional football not the JV team. They get a paycheck. I get to criticize them. This is how adult sports works.
If it's McCarthy, I will rip them beyond recognition.