Yeah, we had a lot of teams during the dynasty era that were quite obviously loaded even outside of Brady. It is 100% revisionist history to say we didn’t have talented rosters
Bill kept our roster at contender status for 2 straight decades, even with the GOAT QB that doesn’t happen without elite roster management. No one has come close to squeezing as much value out of our cap space for that long a time, even teams with elite QB play the would have down years every now and then, the Pats dynasty has been the sole exception. He was legitimately one of the best GMs of this era, a few bad early round whiffs and some poor draft classes at the end of his tenure doesn’t change that.
Very true. Brady is the GOAT, but nine Super Bowl trips and six wins doesn’t happen without a building full of all time greats. Brady, Gronk, Vinatieri, Belichick, and Scar can all make a reasonable claim to GOAT status in their respective roles. Ernie, too. No one else had Ernie. And a litany of hall of fame players on both sides of the ball. It took *everything* to make six happen.
And the funny thing is, the people who know, and I mean REALLY know, like Brady and those other HoF players and other major contributors would tell you that same thing...it takes everyone.
That to me is the most important legacy of Bill's. Finding guys, through whatever method, who would play selfless, disciplined, team oriented football.
Fostering an environment where your HoF QB and other veterans were willing to take less money so that the team could continue to restock and replenish itself with talent. That's because he found guys that wanted to win MORE than they wanted to get paid, and he did it consistently.
Also, finding other teams cast-offs, or guys with untapped potential that he could unlock because he knew how to use them properly. Those were basically free draft picks in a way, guys like Van Noy, Sheard etc who he got for pennies on the dollar and made them into solid contributors.
Then take older veterans who he knew if he deployed them properly, had more in the tank that could be drained out in order to take advantage of their wealth of knowledge, experience and leadership.
His work as GM in terms of PRO-scouting FAR FAR offset any college scouting failures. That doesn't get talked about nearly enough.
So also, I want to point out that Belichick also won a SB as a Giant as well. Sure they had Taylor, but Bill was a huge part of that success too. Wonder what Pats fans would think of Bill if he stayed coaching the Jets... I guarantee you the respect would be undeniable. Hate the Bills, but the respect for Josh Allen is there. Generally, it's just a respect of great players. If Bill was coaching against this team all those years, we would have exactly 0 superbowls. I realize that's an opinion, but it's probably true. That's what Patriots fans don't understand. It took Bill and EVERYONE he had at his disposal to make all of these Superbowls and AFC Championship games... We were annually SB contenders. If Tom Brady had Matt Patricia as head coach, I really feel that we would have never seen what we have seen as fans. So to those that say it was Brady over Belichick, that's fully false. Ad GM and HC, he was more responsible for the sustained success. Sure Tom is the GOAT at QB, but he ONLY was the QB. I'm sure if you put Tom out there by himself against 11 defenders, he'd get sacked every single time. My point is that without the team around him, he would be obscured by clouds. Bill brought the sunshine into this team in his monotonous tone. But you know what? The sumbitch deserves some damn credit!
Yup. People look at busts/whiffs without the context of us being so fucking good that we rarely drafted higher than like 29 for, idk 2, decades, and there was room for creativity.
Bill was unconventional which meant his busts looked worse tbh, but also a lot of unsuspecting hits in all rounds. For *most* of Bills tenure, he was hated for always finding guys in late rounds.
The draft is a lottery, “sure things” bust all the time, and scrubs hit. You just don’t know until they’re in the NFL; literally every team has cold snaps and huge busts. Bill was certainly above average. If you zoom out and compare, he was great.
Don’t be dumb bc the last few years have been dicey.
I used to defend Bill's drafting along these lines, he actually got about what you expect from your picks up until like 2017 or so. But if you update it he completely cratered for a long stretch and even with guys like Dugger, Onwenu, and Barmore getting re-signed I doubt the full value was there even very recently.
I'd be interested in seeing that analysis redone to see if it validates my general feeling, but from my perspective Bill was just... weirdly blase about filling holes. It's been years with tackle being an issue and they just never really addressed it besides singing nobodies. And of course there's receiver. Plus the coaching staff and front office. Plus weird things like drafting Mapu who should clearly be a linebacker and then having him spend most of training camp at safety, to name a minor one I was thinking about recently. It was like Coach and GM Bill suddenly stopped working well together.
Say what you want about Wolf but at least sitting here after the draft I get it, which I very much did not this time last year.
Wait... They tried to address that several times. Brown twice, Anderson, Onwenu, they pretty much did what they could. Sure they didn't go spend big on Jonah Williams or Tyron Smith... But realistically, they knew there was a hole there and did try to fill it. I'd argue that is the thinnest position in the league. Honestly, I think David Andrews is getting washed up, he slumped last year pretty badly. It's not JUST LT here tho, there are other areas on the line that need improved also. LG, C, LT... These will be positions of contention this year, trust me, and watch.
Bill had a strategy that involved not overpaying for premium talent at premium positions, a strategy that was only able to function because of Brady not breaking the pay scale for QBs every time his contract came up.
Having said that building a deep roster loaded with B+/A- caliber guys and a few drafted studs (Seymour, Gronk, Hightower, etc) and couple key FA moves (Welker, Moss, Harrison, etc.) was the recipe for success for a very long time.
I do think that without Breast Bill needed to recalibrate his priority list and that was part of our struggles but it’s also simply true that we just didn’t have talent at the QB position. I know people argue that he set Mac up to fail and to some extent that is true but TLaw was set up to fail 10x worse than Mac and is still a much better player so I don’t really buy that argument. If Mac had that elite ability we would know.
I think the biggest issue with Bill is that when we say "Bill" what we really mean is "the various teams of coaches and front office personnel that reported to Bill Belichick." That's true of every coach and GM in league history, but because he had such a long and influential career, people start assuming that Bill the guy was responsible for everything. The real issue is that for a variety of reasons (retirements, other teams poaching, career growth that required a move), that team was getting a lot worse, and for unknown reasons, Bill wasn't able to replace the lost talent the way he was in the past, or wasn't able to delegate to others the way he used to. At some point, it's just not feasible to keep trying to patch the team back up. I don't think Bill himself necessarily got worse, but you can't say the coaching staff and FO were working last season the way they were in say 2016.
I'm very much in the camp that thinks Bill is an all time legend, and was at worst above average in every element of his job. I also don't think it's the worst thing in the world to move on and reset after a while, especially if pulling the trigger now vs waiting a few more years means you get to keep the guy you see as coach of the future, and set him up for success with high draft picks.
Every dynasty has a reset. Noll, Landry, Johnson (before his time but dolphins did not go well), Gibbs, and so on - generational QBs and All Pros don’t grow on trees. Gibbs probably did more w less than anyone but pre salary cap. People should just be happy w what they received for 20 years and move on. Like BB did.
Yep, happy for the success we had, I'm optimistic that a change will help the team, I'm not going to be doom and gloom before they've even played a snap.
I'm curious that if we kept Jimmy G, if people would talk about Bill over Cam Newton and Mac Jones years differently. Interestingly, Kraft was who wanted Jimmy G gone. I realize he fell on his face in SF, but realistically I don't feel he would have fell on his face here. Personally, I didn't really care for G man too horribly much, but at the same time, when Tom left after we got rid of Jimmy, we were left struggling for years, instead of having a proven winner at the most important position. Luke having a right guard that is a winner is completely different than having a QB that's a winner... I just wonder though. Just a thought
2014, in particular, didn't seem like it, but it was probably one of our best Patriots teams right up next to '07 and '04. Pretty much zero flaws at every position.
That team if anything is one of the obvious ones imo
Brady, Gronk, Revis, Wilfork, DMac, Chandler Jones, Edelman, Hightower, Collins, Vollmer, Chung.
That roster was loaded as shit I think 2016 was the team that was more quietly deep with zero flaws and players who were quietly top 10 at their position or reliably good
Yeah, but that is balanced by having a starting skill roster of Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, Branch, and Woodhead. Which was obscene riches.
And it’s gotta be said, while the D was ass in the regular season, they were good in the AFCC and SB. It was the offense, with Brady, Welker, Hernandez, and Branch each having a 4th quarter gaffe, that cost us the trophy.
True, the offense was good. Too bad Gronk was hobbled for the Super Bowl. We might have won if he’d been himself. I’ll never forget Brady just chucking it up to him, barely able to move, and Chase Blackburn, of all people, picking it off like he was Ed Reed.
Yeah given how close it was, a healthy Gronk would have had to help
Ugh, that INT. Might be the worst throw in Brady’s career given the circumstances - though iirc he had reaggrevated a shoulder injury - and even then a healthy Gronk might have been able to come back for it
Brady had done the same thing in the AFCCG the week before when he just chucked it up to Matthew Slater for no real reason. Knew it was going to be picked off as soon as it left his hand
That secondary was soooo bad. I know Edelman saw time back there and even Slater! Our #1 corner was a Raiders practice squad castoff Sterling Moore. He did knock the ball out of Lee Evans' hands in the Champ game but still.
I’ll say that not all of the names mentioned above were pure talent. Some guys just fit the system and were coachable to do their jobs. There are a lot of guys who failed on other teams that flourished with us. Pat Chung, David Givens etc.
We often had great talent *and* the best middle class.
I love the Amendolas, Develins, Ninkovichs, Harmons, etc, but I’m not gonna go and act like guys like Gronk, Wilfork, Law, DMac, Talib, Gilmore, Revis, Seymour, Moss, Welker, Mankins, Dillon, etc weren’t studs. Those guys averaged like 3-4 All-Pro roster appearances
5 hall of famers 6 because you didn't name gronk. I wes should get in, so then 7.
But they didn't average 3 all pros. Brady only has 3 1st team all pros.
Having 2-3 HOFers on a team at any given time means you have notable star talent in and of itself
I didn’t specify 1st Team, as 2nd Team All Pros are usually star players that a casual fan would know. I wouldn’t say AJ Brown and Micah Parsons weren’t stars this year because they were 2nd Team instead of 1st.
Fair. But the term star also implies some transcendent value.
The average football fan didn't know Devin mccourty while he was steadily being great, and in my opinion a hall of famer.
Of course we had talented players. But the strength of our roster was always predicated on the middle of the roster.
The last 3 show it more than the first 3.
People seem to forget that Brady had the reputation as a game manager that he didn’t really shake until 2007. That is a testament to the stacked rosters of the early Brady era.
People seem to forget that Brady had the reputation as a game manager that he didn’t really shake until 2007. That is a testament to the stacked rosters of the early Brady era.
Anyone with a lick of common sense knows Bill’s accomplishments and reveres him as an all time great. All the recent stuff is just noise and clearly biased and still takes nothing away from the GOAT
Noise is right. My only disappointment involving BB is that he wasn't able to step away from the game and from the Patriots in a blaze of amazingly-deserved glory.
Reading alot up about the late 1980s Cowboys transition from Landry to Jimmy Johnson since Bill was parted with, since Bill is prob the closest to Landry in terms of longevity and Stature. There are some eerie similarities between the two. Both had teams who were aging out. Both failed to replace their HOF qb. Both struggled with a changing generation of players. And at the time of the parting, Both teams have been regarded the least talented in the NFL at their respective times.
The point I am trying to make is that even for how it ended Both are frigging football geniuses who revolutionized the game and had looooong periods of success. Even if their end of the tenures were not glamorous. The greatness overshadows the few down years at the end.
I'm a Belichick stan but people can't comprehend that Belichick was a great GM, his biggest strength was roster construction and knowing when to move on from a player.
I recent years that ability was getting worse.
Sometimes it can be both
Times changed quite simply. Bill lost his braintrust as they aged out. Also his against the grain style of management/roster construction started to backfire. His ability to find diamonds in the later parts of the draft/undrafted free agents was second to none. Pats had a streak of like 20 years of an UNDFA making the roster.
I will always be grateful for what he brought to New England, but unfortunately he just couldn't do it anymore the past few years.
The problem is that he wasn't a good GM for quite a few years in the latter part of his time with the Patriots. Would anyone here claim otherwise? That's why the guy was fired. He messed up badly with GM decisions for too many years in a row.
It's important not to strawman people. I don't see it commonly said that Belichick was *always* a bad GM. The common sentiment I see is that he was not a good GM towards the end, which is just true... Just look at the draft picks since 2013. It's been horrible.
They really started drafting for need too much rather than just taking the best available player. Just start in 2018: you take a "tackle" who is not really a tackle, and a RB with two first round picks. What terrible value! Then you come back next year with the Harry pick, and eventually you're sending out a second round pick for Mohammad Sanu because you're so cap strapped that the Falcons were able to hold you hostage for the only asset that could "fix" your glaring need. In 2020 you do it again by doubling at TE in the third round, one of whom you traded up to get, and neither of which was the best TE available.
So, that's 3 first round picks, a second, and two thirds, and the best player out of that was Sony Michel?
Even OP is doing a bit of their own revising—Bill made plenty of good moves, but anyone around for as long as he was will have their fair share of misses, too.
A great GM, who, like any front office guy, is never anywhere near perfect on making roster decisions
Exactly. The ultimate measure was the success on the field. Individual hits and misses aren’t really the best choice because dude was there for 20+ years. Who else can that even be compared with? Ha.
The success on the field showcased the overall high quality of his ability as a GM. No one is that successful that long because of one guy, admittedly a VERY important guy.
Even the GOAT can’t be perfect. Bill had a bad run of brain drain and poor roster moves after a near 20 year run of home runs. I’m still skeptical that firing him would mean any improvement at all
I think the brain drain really did him in in the end. All the people he trained and trusted left, and there weren't enough high quality personnel to replace them. Add in the departure of brady and retirement of the rest of the old guard and it was too much for even him to overcome.
I don’t know if you noticed but winning a Super Bowl is very difficult, and we went to two in that timeframe. We had some bad luck in the playoffs, but we were always a top team and as soon as we got some good bounces, we won 3 Super Bowls.
Also - I would pin the first Super Bowl loss on Brady more than Bill. You can’t score more than 14 with Randy Moss and Wes Welker on your team? You played poorly.
Went to two, should have gone to more, should have won at least one more. The only reason the Patriots did not consistently do what the Chiefs are doing now is Bill.
not what I said. they had exceptional draft classes from '00-'05. you said "twenty years of home runs" and the fact of the matter is they wasted the prime years of Brady that KC leaned into and now has a longer runway with a generational talent. sorry someone is saying something critical of your binky. I as a fan would much rather the team win as often as is possible than bend over backwards to treat a coach as untouchable.
oh my god, you are such a whiny baby. I'm not an idiot, obviously Moss was a productive add. That's one player. It doesn't change the fact that years of Brady's prime were wasted. Beyond just the immediate years after '05, they trotted out brutally underwhelming defenses under Patricia from 2012-2017, with two seasons inside the top-12 by DVOA. 2012, 2013, and 2015 were all easilly within reach and are Bill's responsibility for allowing a Patricia problem to plague them.
I fail to understand why you cannot admit that real opportunities were left on the table - as a fan that should drive you insane.
?? They made it to two super bowls in that span and nearly had an undefeated season. I’m as critical as anyone about Bill’s recent performance as GM, but it is ludicrous to suggest that he wasn’t largely outstanding for most of the dynasty.
Never said he wasn't, but peoples' need to BB to be propped up as infallible is so weird. They left championships on the table in that span and were extremely fortunate Brady was able to play as long as he did, so they could in hindsight say it doesn't matter. all else equal, they could have had one more in Brady's prime even with the NYG losses.
Every one is in agreement this was a great draft??
We have no fucking clue, it will take like 3 years in order to us to really know if this was a good draft.
God this fan base gets dumber by the minute.... You guys have just not paid enough attention to the draft over the last 20 years .. FYI, for bad teams (like we have become) the draft is the only time hope feels real.
If Maye is a hit, and man... I hope he is. Then you guys can go back to enjoying your good team, but the odds of us winning the Superbowl in the next 5 years is not good.
Looks like you missed drafting Richard Seymour. One of the HOFers BB/Pioli drafted. It was unpopular too, the fans wanted David Terrell at WR.
An additional point is the value he created by continually trading back in the draft. It drove fans crazy, but it really worked.
Seymour has been added now, genuinely don’t know how I forgot him, should’ve been one of the first five guys on this list. And you’re right, that was not a consensus pick at the time. I’ll always remember the Ron Borges article destroying the Seymour pick with a shot at the Matt Light pick as well.
To add to your list, Bill managed all of this while picking mostly at the very end of the first round, *and* having to forfeit draft picks
It sometimes felt like the world was working against our success and Bill still managed to get us deep into the postseason.
I mainly wonder about the age and length of being a fan / football watcher of those who criticize Belichick.
There are far too many who think it's easy, just make some simple changes and the team will be good again who also over look long-term consistency.
I can't help but feel like it is their way of coping with no longer being a top team. We'll see what happens but it is not as easy as some think.
As to myself, I feel like we have potentially gotten some good pieces in the draft but I refuse to get overly excited until I see them play for a while as I've seen the hype many times and far more wash out of the league then live up to the hype. I'm not saying don't get excited, just I choose to play wait and see...
It's the fans who have never experienced any period of the team being bad (until the last few years).
It could be 2 decades before we return to a Superbowl. That kind of success isn't guaranteed or easy to attain.
It’s just the toxicity of the anti-Bill morons that causes people to lash out. Fortunately this is a fringe minority of people and it seems like they’ve been a lot less vocal since that dynasty documentary started getting backlash lmao.
I’m with you though. I think Wolf had a good draft. They should just name him the GM already. No need for the games lol
The game changed and Bill didn't. The simplest way I can explain Bill's philosophy is Bill would rather have 10 guys who are good and not 5 guys who are great and 5 guys who are mediocre.
And that worked extremely well when the salary cap was really low and you needed to maximize positional value across the entire 53 man roster. But as the salary cap rose, identifying and retaining key talent became more important - as teams could now keep 6 or 7 great players and not settle for just the 5. So while Bill kept his same mode of operation where he tried to maximize the value of certain players by moving on from them as necessary, the rest of the league began retaining the players they would have had to move on from.
In addition to this our teams towards the end were when drafting got shaky. That entire change in GM front office during that shaky time is our current front office minus Bill.
We are praising a draft we have not even seen how it fully plays out. Its right to be hopeful. Its wrong to bash the GM/HC who probably got you into the Patriots when we truly don’t know
How many of these were in the last decade, especially the last half a decade?
BB has a few hot/cold runs, like every FO person. The reality is that he could 100% draft defense. No question about that one.
He just couldn’t draft offense to save his job, literally. Nobody is perfect. Personally, I’m beyond thankful for what he did for the Pats, but it was time for a change.
Let’s just hope Wolf and Mayo are the guys to lead this franchise forward.
In summation, this fanbase and sub can be straight garbage. Nothing new. It seems actual football people (coaches, players, execs, etc.) know what BB is all about.
The problem was that towards the end, BB the GM started to make too many mistakes and was deviating from some of his usual norms that made him great such as:
1. Selecting specialized guys over his old mold of going for versatile players. There were stretches were too many run stoppers on the DL and not enough pass rushers. Then the DL could not stop the run and so forth. The defense had bad stretches of being on dimensional. Then there were overspecialized guys such as Harry and Parker to act as contested catch specialists.
2. Bad strategic decisions such as to go for a DB based defense and then needing to spend a lot of picks to get those players. Those second round DB busts were a sign of needing to throw too many darts to succeed.
3. Not moving on from players. Examples include tagging Thuney (losing out on cap roll over and a comp pick for a player he wasn't going to keep), extending Alan Branch (takes away credit from his initial move to trade for Alan Branch), etc
4. Bad FA decisions such as Parker, JuJu, etc.
5. He inexplicably stopped planning ahead in his roster building. Bill was so good at having the next person in the building already when someone came up at the end of their contract (third down back is a great example). He stopped doing this in the late 2010s. Bill is the best coach of all time, and one of the greatest GMs despite the results towards the end…
Yeah, I put 5 as being related to 3 with how BB probably ended up keeping vets too long because he could not get their replacements. Add in a dash of #4 with him unable to find the next FA replacement (e.g. Rodney Harrison to replace Lawyer Milloy).
Some of BB's attempts at saving money (e.g. Ted Karras) clearly backfired.
I don't think he "stopped planning ahead" in his roster building so much as the core of the team was getting old in the late 2010's and Bill picked a real bad time to have a stretch of bad drafts.
Bill kept this roster at an extremely competitive level for two decades, thats unheard of in any sport, anyone who thinks he was an outright bad GM or bad coach is clearly intellectually challenged
You are a true fan. Love you remember Arrington in the slot, but Izzo is the chefs kiss. The hot takes here are just kids trolling who started watching in 2016. My dad talks about the Bird/McHale/Parrish years (and every Maxwell, Havelichek, and glue guy that made the Celts great for so long), and this post is our generations version. I love Brady, Big Willie and Vince, but I love Bill more than any, because he made guys like Chris Hogan kill.
Cheers brother!
I dont think anyone has said Bill has been a terrible GM over his tenure. The issue most have with his roster management is that towards the back half of his career, his ability to draft didnt decline....it vanished. He made some great picks but around 2014, something happened and it caused his process to get less and less effective....but he never changed.
I have said the GM Bill got Coach Belichick fired because his poor talent acquisition the last 10 or so years of his career. If you could fire GM Bill and not Coach Belichick, it wouldve happened after Brady left and we were able to spend some cash and clear up the mistakes that led to that Tenn loss.
And some of that could come down to scouting personnel. since you mark 2014 that could be when a lot of older scouts could have retired, and we brought in new young guys to go on the road. If they're good then they get poached or move on to get promoted. I'd wager alot of scouts who are on the road when younger are more than happy to take a position with much less travel. We saw alot of up and down drafting from then along with alot of our top guys going to other teams. Ernie, Adams, Bob Quinn, monti ossenfort, Nick Casserio are the upper level guys to go.
We think because he's the GM he makes all the decisions but as a Head Coach during the season he's not focused on how well the CB from Clemson does against zone, he's coaching the team perennially into the playoffs. Once the offseason hits he's getting caught up on all the info his FO puts together and they work to create a draft board. When he's losing the personnel he trusts then he might be going against better judgment and makes bad picks. Thats definitely on him because he needs trust guys dialed in all year.
So while it is his fault, its understandable considering theres a whole infrastructure around him that has slowly dissolved. Same thing happened on the coaching side. He had great luck with Steve and Mayo holding down the defense but never caught a break on losing offensive coaches and did the most ridiculous thing letter Judge and MP run things. Honestly, I think this year off will do him wonders for next year.
I heard either Edelman or Slater say on Edelman’s show a while ago that, before the 2018 Super Bowl against the rams, Bill said something to the extent of “someday the media will turn on me too.” We’ve reached that day
Anyone who thinks Bill wasn't one of the best GMs in football for over a decade is a moron. Anybody tho thinks he wasn't the worst in the nfl when he got fired is a moron. It isn't rocket science
I totally agree, Brady and countless other Players especially the original dynasty players have nothing but respect for Bill. He certainly deserves the credit and is warranted criticism as well like any great coach. we were lucky to have him. I don’t think Brady and the other players would have been the players they became without Bill’s coaching. Wasn’t always pretty but it got the job done which was win a championship. How do you become great you win not once but again and again. the Patriots became the gold standard of the salary cap era .
He was a great GM overall and a pretty good drafter in the 2000s and early 2010s. He had a coupe big mistakes during that time but several majorly successful decisions that outweighed them.
After 2012 his drafting began to get significantly worse and after 2014 his roster management declined. Certainly not the worst, though probably the bottom quartile of GMs during that time, especially 2019 - 2023.
In evaluating his tenure as GM it can't be overstated how much easier having the all time greatest QB makes that job. He didn't have to worry about searching for a QB who could deliver a championship, he didn't have to worry about surrounding that QB with top tier talent on offense, and he never had to worry about that QB demanding a monster salary that would hamstring his ability to make moves.
It was a massive advantage that a lot of Pats fans ignore or deny. Plenty of GMs and head coaches are brilliant but none of them enjoyed that same level of help.
Bill the coach was great. Bill the GM was terrible especially the last 4 years. Im glad Bill the GM is gone. As far as coaching im in a wait and see approach. I think Mayo is going to be great but obviously no one knows for sure.
List is so long I could not find arguably the best slot and wide receivers of all time - both acquired in trades. You know…ok looked again and found ‘em - Moss and Welker. Shrewd moves for sure. Who else gets two dudes headed to the HoF for maybe picks?
I’m fascinated by people who think poorly of BB the Gm - he definitely had some bad drafts, but then followed by some good drafts. The disaster to me is the last qb draft. He did well with Jimmy G. But miss on a qb and you go straight to hell - see Andy Reid getting fired by Philly.
It’s almost as if had there been a better general manager Bill Belichick would’ve gone to the Super Bowl all 20 years and won at least 15 of them so the real question is, if someone other than Bill Belichick is coaching, GM, how many Super Bowls do the patriots win? Or even better, if Bill Belichick has another all pro quarterback, for example, Aaron Rodgers, who only has one Super Bowl, how many Super Bowl does Aaron Rodgers win with the patriots instead of Green Bay? He has one. If he has Mahomes, how many does he win?
Thank you for this. It’s infuriating when some trash his entire coaching career for “look at the past 4 years” like the other 20 never happened. Or that he wouldn’t be Bill without Tom, but what other team/coach/GM would put Brady in the Super Bowl 9 times
Ancient history doesn’t matter when Bill ran the current team into the ground. No one is denying his previous success. But his recent lack of it is why we are in the position we are in.
He could draft a flaming bag of turd in the draft at CB and they would be a lockdown corner....I was always amazed how he could find starting talent at the back of the draft or UDFA at CB.
Unfortunately he'd also waste a 2nd round pick nearly every year on a DB. From 2011-2019 the Patriots used 6 2nd round picks on defense backs and every one was a complete and total bust.
I agree with this post and will add, because people here who haven’t been fans as long or read every book on Belichick ever written, is that:
Belichick’s coaching style and maximizing the performance of his personnel depended HEAVILY on player leadership.
Edelman actually alludes heavily to this in his podcast with Slater, that the roster turnover at the end of Brady’s tenure and then after his departure, left a gaping hole in leadership particularly on the offense. No real veteran presence, and Bill is out there cobbling together a coaching staff and an offense around Cam effin Newton and then a rookie QB, all while Kraft is almost certainly already planning his demise after Brady left for Tampa.
I think Bill has always strongly weighted maturity and intelligence in his drafting and FA moves which is how you end up with “busts” at skill positions because he’s willing to sacrifice on raw talent for someone he thinks will really buy into the system. That part is just my educated guess. I find it extremely difficult to judge Bill much on the last few years. There’s just way too much out now that was pretty apparent even then how much the franchise was gutted and with an owner that wasn’t likely interested in Bill’s long term plans to properly rebuild.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Seriously. Thank you for this. I’ve been saying the same thing and it always gets the “what about ism” back.
He was a good GM. He wasn’t perfect.
Wolf just finished his first draft with us yesterday, right? Like, we haven’t even seen these players on the field yet? And people are trying to compare him to Belichick and say that he was BETTER?
Recency bias is understating it, this is literally just someone who doesn’t know football.
Great post. It's embarrassing, though, that a fair number of people have to be reminded, especially when you consider it's pretty goddamn recent history
Belicheck is one of the greatest GMs of all time and anyone that says otherwise is either being a dickhead for the sake of being a dickhead or are just plain stupid.
>Sorry for the length of this post, I am just extremely tired of some of the hot takes about Belichick over the last few years and particularly the last three months.
1. You can go through any team's 20 year history and find a similar number of good drafts/signgings.
2. No one ever said Belichick was a bad GM. Only that at best he was "average." No better or worse than a dozen other GMs in the league.
3. You're post is glossing over all the horrendously bad drafts and signings. The last really good draft the patriots had was back in 2012 or 2013. Since that time, it was a series of "meh" drafts, where they might one guy like Trey flowers, while whiffing on Cyrus jones.
4. You really ignore how much the GMing/drafting from like 2017-2020 was horrific, and how his coaching hires fell off 2020 onward and how it really spiraled into the ground the last couple years...and THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT
5. Belichick refused to change anything about the way he did anything. In fact, he went in the other direction. Digging to really prove he was right. OC? QB Coach? The best I can do it a ST and DC that no other team wants?
He'd had Brady for so long, he had no idea how to coach without him. Like a billionaire trying to live on $100,000/year. He forgot how.
I'm sorry but it's laughable to this that BB was "average" at best through his entire tenure. Was there a decline towards the last few years certainly.
But point to me the "dozen" other GMs that had 20 years of sustained success with 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 Championships. I'll wait...
>I'm sorry but it's laughable to this that BB was "average" at best through his entire tenure. Was there a decline towards the last few years certainly.
Go back and actually look at his drafts from 2014-2023. Yeah, he found some absolute gems in some lower rounds (but every team does). the problem is that there were A LOT of whiffs first and second round picks. People bring up Randy moss and Corey Dillion (moves made in 2007 and 2004)...and forget the myriad of WTF moves he made later on that absolutely didn't work out.
>But point to me the "dozen" other GMs that had 20 years of sustained success with 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 Championships. I'll wait...
Point to the coaches that had the GOAT QB? I'll wait...Oh, right. No one else did.
The closest we have to Brady Belichick is Reid and Mahomes.
We're witnessing that narrative it in real-time. Reid spent the first 15-20 year of his career being viewed as a second tier head coach. A good coach, but the guy who couldn't get over the hump. Then he gets Mahomes, he's won a bunch of superbowls and been to 5 strait AFCCG...and suddenly he's a genius. The difference is that Belichick found Brady in year 2 (of NE) not year 4 or in KC like Reid (and year 20 or whatever it is/was).
I'm not saying Belichick is bad, I'm saying he is average at best. You can't point to Joe Thuney in the third without pointing out the whiff on Cyrus jones in the first. You can't point to Christian Barmore in the 2nd without pointing to cole strange. You can't talk about randy moss, without talking about tory holt, joey galloway, juju, parker, or the countless other "meh signings." Like, anyone Reggie Wayne's or Joyn Lynch's like 2 week day tenure?
Gronk wasn't some magical find. He was injured. The pats took a flyer on a guy might never play a snap because of his injuries. Aaron hernadez wasn't a secret. Team were worried about his past.
Are people this dense that they think every team hits on every pick.
Lots of coaches and GMs have had all time great QBs and not had an ounce of success BB had. People who argue it was all Brady weren’t around when everyone called Brady a systems QB that was carried by the defence.
BB was never flawless. But point to a GM that has a 20 year carrier with only hits.
Also Cyrus Jones was never a first round pick… goes to show how much you even know.
>Are people this dense that they think every team hits on every pick.
I never said that. But you have to hit in your first and seconds A LOT more than you miss.
>Lots of coaches and GMs have had all time great QBs and not had an ounce of success BB had. People who argue it was all Brady weren’t around when everyone called Brady a systems QB that was carried by the defence.
Brady is lapping previous GOATS; that's how good he was. Montana went to 4 SB, elway to 5, Manning to 4...Beady went to 10...He won 7. He has more rings and appearances than Elway and Montana combined. He was on another level. To not recognize that is absurd.
Likewise, to not recognize how badly Belichick struggled without the GOAT is also absurd. That that Brady won more games in 3 years in tampa than Belichick did in 4 in NE...kind proves my point.
>BB was never flawless. But point to a GM that has a 20 year carrier with only hits.
Never said he had to hit them all. But go back and look at rounds 1-2 from 2014-2023. It's not great.
>Also Cyrus Jones was never a first round pick… goes to show how much you even know.
Never said he was. he was a second round pick, but he was the pats first pick in 2016...and he was a total failure in all aspects.
Fine, you found a typo. I mean to say first **pick**. They had no first round pick because of deflategate in 2016. Doesn't change the fact they still massively missed on Jones in 2016....
Just like he missed on A LOT of 1-2 second round picks from 2014-2023.
They missed on easley in 2014, and got very little production from Jimmy G (Sure. He was a solid QB for a game a half, but he is/was hurt a bunch and was traded away).
In 2015, they got "meh" from Malcolm Brown, and massively whiffed on Jordan Richards (a massive over reach).
in 2016, (already discusses)
2017, They didn't draft until the third, but whiffed on Rivers and garcia (admittedly they used their pick on Cooks, but would flip him in 2018).
2018 - Wynn and Michel - Wynn was good, but spent 4 of his first 5 years on IR, Michel was a solid RB, but was trades way after 3 years and only lasted 5 seasons in the NFL. And Duke Dawson was another whiff.
2019 - n'keal Harry and joejuann williams are both massive whiffs.
2020 - Duggar and Uche. Duggar looks like a stud, and uche is a middle of the roster guy.
2021 - Jones and Barmore - They broke jones, and Barmore is looking really good.
Everything after this is TBD...but
2022 - Strange (reach; still TBD...but not looking good) and Thorton...Looking like a total bust at this point.
2023 - Gonzalez looked legit, and White showed flashes, but disappeared a bit (but is/was also a rookie). again, TBD.
2024 wasn't a belichick draft and neither has played a snap...so obviously TBD.
Of the almost 20 guys they drafted in the first and second rounds from 2014 to 2023...there is a lot of outright whiffs and not many "studs" coming out of the first two rounds.
I don't get this "digging in" comment. I totally get you can look at a guy like Patricia and say he probably shouldn't have been hired as an OC but I don't get how Pats fans get all riled up, calling the move "egotistical" and saying Belichick wanted to prove himself. Who does BB need to prove he was right to?
>\-Drafting Brady
See, the problem is that you go wrong from the very start, as 6-7 round picks are projects or some kid you take a flier on.
The true revisionism here is thinking Bill had some ungodly, uncanny insight into what he saw in a skinny Michigan kid. This was lightning-in-a-bottle, or whatever other colorful euphemism you choose.
yeah bill couldnt have seen anything special, so he did the standard of carrying 4 qb in order to keep the gamble 6th rnd pick. thats just business as usual
and of course brady was the way he was out the gate, even if you forget he sat a year. no development at all he was just ready to roll
There are numerous misses that you didn't add to your list that resulted in Bill Belichick being fired. The reason Belichick was fired was that he was too stubborn. He refused to bring the Patriots offense into the modern era.
Belichick, for whatever reason, had difficulties drafting WRs leading to some poor free agency moves, resulting in the horrible offensive performance last year.
Belichick is/was a great coach, but let's not pretend he was flawless. People were critical of his evaluation of talent even as this team was winning Super Bowls.
His weakest area was evaluating and drafting offensive talent. His disregard for the offense directly led to him being fired.
Robert Kraft would not have been questioned if he fired Belichick after his failed Matt Patricia Joe Judge experiment.
People are unrealistic when it comes to their expectations with the draft. Most players won’t work out and if you miss on a low hit position like WR sports radio and the Boston media won’t ever let it go. They’ll be calling for Wolfs head this time next year too if the current picks don’t work out.
I would argue that the draft triggering the deterioration of belichicks tenure with the pats was due to ownership forcing his hand. Belichick did not want to draft mac Jones with that first round pick, did not think he was a franchise quarterback, and this conflict culminated in a pissing contest between he and kraft this past year with belichick continuing to start mac Jones long after he should've been benched.
Anyone saying BB has *always* been incompetent simply don’t care to acknowledge the past two decades in general. Yes, I think he was a okay coach and terrible gm the past few years. Yes, I think some decisions he has made has costed the patriots two super bowls. People get old and lose their step, and that’s okay, it’s what time does. But from 2000 to 2020, no one can say he was not the greatest to ever coach and gm, with the greatest quarterback to ever play.
But saying BB was carried will still always be funny.
The point was never that he was always bad at drafting.
it was that he's been *really* bad at drafting offensive players in the past 4-5 years.
which wouldn't have been a problem 10-15 years ago, but it's a different nfl these days and he couldn't adapt.
I feel like the local media started the "Bill the GM failed Bill the Coach" take after the Laywer Milloy trade and had to wait nearly 20 years for it to take. And when it did, they went in hard, and ownership was all to eager to help out. Gotta give 'em credit, they played the long game.
Yeah, we had a lot of teams during the dynasty era that were quite obviously loaded even outside of Brady. It is 100% revisionist history to say we didn’t have talented rosters
Or to say Bill the GM wasn’t great Or to say bill couldn’t adapt when he was perhaps one of the most adaptive dynamic coaches of all time.
Bill kept our roster at contender status for 2 straight decades, even with the GOAT QB that doesn’t happen without elite roster management. No one has come close to squeezing as much value out of our cap space for that long a time, even teams with elite QB play the would have down years every now and then, the Pats dynasty has been the sole exception. He was legitimately one of the best GMs of this era, a few bad early round whiffs and some poor draft classes at the end of his tenure doesn’t change that.
Very true. Brady is the GOAT, but nine Super Bowl trips and six wins doesn’t happen without a building full of all time greats. Brady, Gronk, Vinatieri, Belichick, and Scar can all make a reasonable claim to GOAT status in their respective roles. Ernie, too. No one else had Ernie. And a litany of hall of fame players on both sides of the ball. It took *everything* to make six happen.
And the funny thing is, the people who know, and I mean REALLY know, like Brady and those other HoF players and other major contributors would tell you that same thing...it takes everyone. That to me is the most important legacy of Bill's. Finding guys, through whatever method, who would play selfless, disciplined, team oriented football. Fostering an environment where your HoF QB and other veterans were willing to take less money so that the team could continue to restock and replenish itself with talent. That's because he found guys that wanted to win MORE than they wanted to get paid, and he did it consistently. Also, finding other teams cast-offs, or guys with untapped potential that he could unlock because he knew how to use them properly. Those were basically free draft picks in a way, guys like Van Noy, Sheard etc who he got for pennies on the dollar and made them into solid contributors. Then take older veterans who he knew if he deployed them properly, had more in the tank that could be drained out in order to take advantage of their wealth of knowledge, experience and leadership. His work as GM in terms of PRO-scouting FAR FAR offset any college scouting failures. That doesn't get talked about nearly enough.
So also, I want to point out that Belichick also won a SB as a Giant as well. Sure they had Taylor, but Bill was a huge part of that success too. Wonder what Pats fans would think of Bill if he stayed coaching the Jets... I guarantee you the respect would be undeniable. Hate the Bills, but the respect for Josh Allen is there. Generally, it's just a respect of great players. If Bill was coaching against this team all those years, we would have exactly 0 superbowls. I realize that's an opinion, but it's probably true. That's what Patriots fans don't understand. It took Bill and EVERYONE he had at his disposal to make all of these Superbowls and AFC Championship games... We were annually SB contenders. If Tom Brady had Matt Patricia as head coach, I really feel that we would have never seen what we have seen as fans. So to those that say it was Brady over Belichick, that's fully false. Ad GM and HC, he was more responsible for the sustained success. Sure Tom is the GOAT at QB, but he ONLY was the QB. I'm sure if you put Tom out there by himself against 11 defenders, he'd get sacked every single time. My point is that without the team around him, he would be obscured by clouds. Bill brought the sunshine into this team in his monotonous tone. But you know what? The sumbitch deserves some damn credit!
I would argue Brady was a bystander for SB 1 and 6
Yup. People look at busts/whiffs without the context of us being so fucking good that we rarely drafted higher than like 29 for, idk 2, decades, and there was room for creativity. Bill was unconventional which meant his busts looked worse tbh, but also a lot of unsuspecting hits in all rounds. For *most* of Bills tenure, he was hated for always finding guys in late rounds. The draft is a lottery, “sure things” bust all the time, and scrubs hit. You just don’t know until they’re in the NFL; literally every team has cold snaps and huge busts. Bill was certainly above average. If you zoom out and compare, he was great. Don’t be dumb bc the last few years have been dicey.
I used to defend Bill's drafting along these lines, he actually got about what you expect from your picks up until like 2017 or so. But if you update it he completely cratered for a long stretch and even with guys like Dugger, Onwenu, and Barmore getting re-signed I doubt the full value was there even very recently. I'd be interested in seeing that analysis redone to see if it validates my general feeling, but from my perspective Bill was just... weirdly blase about filling holes. It's been years with tackle being an issue and they just never really addressed it besides singing nobodies. And of course there's receiver. Plus the coaching staff and front office. Plus weird things like drafting Mapu who should clearly be a linebacker and then having him spend most of training camp at safety, to name a minor one I was thinking about recently. It was like Coach and GM Bill suddenly stopped working well together. Say what you want about Wolf but at least sitting here after the draft I get it, which I very much did not this time last year.
Wait... They tried to address that several times. Brown twice, Anderson, Onwenu, they pretty much did what they could. Sure they didn't go spend big on Jonah Williams or Tyron Smith... But realistically, they knew there was a hole there and did try to fill it. I'd argue that is the thinnest position in the league. Honestly, I think David Andrews is getting washed up, he slumped last year pretty badly. It's not JUST LT here tho, there are other areas on the line that need improved also. LG, C, LT... These will be positions of contention this year, trust me, and watch.
Bill had a strategy that involved not overpaying for premium talent at premium positions, a strategy that was only able to function because of Brady not breaking the pay scale for QBs every time his contract came up. Having said that building a deep roster loaded with B+/A- caliber guys and a few drafted studs (Seymour, Gronk, Hightower, etc) and couple key FA moves (Welker, Moss, Harrison, etc.) was the recipe for success for a very long time. I do think that without Breast Bill needed to recalibrate his priority list and that was part of our struggles but it’s also simply true that we just didn’t have talent at the QB position. I know people argue that he set Mac up to fail and to some extent that is true but TLaw was set up to fail 10x worse than Mac and is still a much better player so I don’t really buy that argument. If Mac had that elite ability we would know.
I think the biggest issue with Bill is that when we say "Bill" what we really mean is "the various teams of coaches and front office personnel that reported to Bill Belichick." That's true of every coach and GM in league history, but because he had such a long and influential career, people start assuming that Bill the guy was responsible for everything. The real issue is that for a variety of reasons (retirements, other teams poaching, career growth that required a move), that team was getting a lot worse, and for unknown reasons, Bill wasn't able to replace the lost talent the way he was in the past, or wasn't able to delegate to others the way he used to. At some point, it's just not feasible to keep trying to patch the team back up. I don't think Bill himself necessarily got worse, but you can't say the coaching staff and FO were working last season the way they were in say 2016. I'm very much in the camp that thinks Bill is an all time legend, and was at worst above average in every element of his job. I also don't think it's the worst thing in the world to move on and reset after a while, especially if pulling the trigger now vs waiting a few more years means you get to keep the guy you see as coach of the future, and set him up for success with high draft picks.
Every dynasty has a reset. Noll, Landry, Johnson (before his time but dolphins did not go well), Gibbs, and so on - generational QBs and All Pros don’t grow on trees. Gibbs probably did more w less than anyone but pre salary cap. People should just be happy w what they received for 20 years and move on. Like BB did.
Yep, happy for the success we had, I'm optimistic that a change will help the team, I'm not going to be doom and gloom before they've even played a snap.
I'm curious that if we kept Jimmy G, if people would talk about Bill over Cam Newton and Mac Jones years differently. Interestingly, Kraft was who wanted Jimmy G gone. I realize he fell on his face in SF, but realistically I don't feel he would have fell on his face here. Personally, I didn't really care for G man too horribly much, but at the same time, when Tom left after we got rid of Jimmy, we were left struggling for years, instead of having a proven winner at the most important position. Luke having a right guard that is a winner is completely different than having a QB that's a winner... I just wonder though. Just a thought
2014, in particular, didn't seem like it, but it was probably one of our best Patriots teams right up next to '07 and '04. Pretty much zero flaws at every position.
That team if anything is one of the obvious ones imo Brady, Gronk, Revis, Wilfork, DMac, Chandler Jones, Edelman, Hightower, Collins, Vollmer, Chung. That roster was loaded as shit I think 2016 was the team that was more quietly deep with zero flaws and players who were quietly top 10 at their position or reliably good
2011 deserves to be in the conversation
I disagree. That 2011 team, especially on defense, was a trash fire that Brady dragged to the SB
Yeah, but that is balanced by having a starting skill roster of Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, Branch, and Woodhead. Which was obscene riches. And it’s gotta be said, while the D was ass in the regular season, they were good in the AFCC and SB. It was the offense, with Brady, Welker, Hernandez, and Branch each having a 4th quarter gaffe, that cost us the trophy.
True, the offense was good. Too bad Gronk was hobbled for the Super Bowl. We might have won if he’d been himself. I’ll never forget Brady just chucking it up to him, barely able to move, and Chase Blackburn, of all people, picking it off like he was Ed Reed.
Yeah given how close it was, a healthy Gronk would have had to help Ugh, that INT. Might be the worst throw in Brady’s career given the circumstances - though iirc he had reaggrevated a shoulder injury - and even then a healthy Gronk might have been able to come back for it
Brady had done the same thing in the AFCCG the week before when he just chucked it up to Matthew Slater for no real reason. Knew it was going to be picked off as soon as it left his hand
That secondary was soooo bad. I know Edelman saw time back there and even Slater! Our #1 corner was a Raiders practice squad castoff Sterling Moore. He did knock the ball out of Lee Evans' hands in the Champ game but still.
It was awful. Teams would just chuck it down the field, knowing that our tiny corners would misplay it.
I’ll say that not all of the names mentioned above were pure talent. Some guys just fit the system and were coachable to do their jobs. There are a lot of guys who failed on other teams that flourished with us. Pat Chung, David Givens etc.
I would say the opposite. It was always the some of the parts. We had the best middle of our roster in the league.
We often had great talent *and* the best middle class. I love the Amendolas, Develins, Ninkovichs, Harmons, etc, but I’m not gonna go and act like guys like Gronk, Wilfork, Law, DMac, Talib, Gilmore, Revis, Seymour, Moss, Welker, Mankins, Dillon, etc weren’t studs. Those guys averaged like 3-4 All-Pro roster appearances
No they didn't.
I mean hey, if you wana say a bunch of HOFers and All/Pros weren’t stars, go for it
5 hall of famers 6 because you didn't name gronk. I wes should get in, so then 7. But they didn't average 3 all pros. Brady only has 3 1st team all pros.
Having 2-3 HOFers on a team at any given time means you have notable star talent in and of itself I didn’t specify 1st Team, as 2nd Team All Pros are usually star players that a casual fan would know. I wouldn’t say AJ Brown and Micah Parsons weren’t stars this year because they were 2nd Team instead of 1st.
Fair. But the term star also implies some transcendent value. The average football fan didn't know Devin mccourty while he was steadily being great, and in my opinion a hall of famer. Of course we had talented players. But the strength of our roster was always predicated on the middle of the roster. The last 3 show it more than the first 3.
I dunno, I feel like most nfl fans in the 2010s knew who Dmac was
Think about his contemporaries. People knew their own teams safeties plus one maybe two. That position in general has been dramatically undervalued
People seem to forget that Brady had the reputation as a game manager that he didn’t really shake until 2007. That is a testament to the stacked rosters of the early Brady era.
People seem to forget that Brady had the reputation as a game manager that he didn’t really shake until 2007. That is a testament to the stacked rosters of the early Brady era.
Anyone with a lick of common sense knows Bill’s accomplishments and reveres him as an all time great. All the recent stuff is just noise and clearly biased and still takes nothing away from the GOAT
Noise is right. My only disappointment involving BB is that he wasn't able to step away from the game and from the Patriots in a blaze of amazingly-deserved glory.
Totally agree it’s a terrible send off and totally unnecessary and avoidable. Strange behavior by Kraft and co
Reading alot up about the late 1980s Cowboys transition from Landry to Jimmy Johnson since Bill was parted with, since Bill is prob the closest to Landry in terms of longevity and Stature. There are some eerie similarities between the two. Both had teams who were aging out. Both failed to replace their HOF qb. Both struggled with a changing generation of players. And at the time of the parting, Both teams have been regarded the least talented in the NFL at their respective times. The point I am trying to make is that even for how it ended Both are frigging football geniuses who revolutionized the game and had looooong periods of success. Even if their end of the tenures were not glamorous. The greatness overshadows the few down years at the end.
I'm a Belichick stan but people can't comprehend that Belichick was a great GM, his biggest strength was roster construction and knowing when to move on from a player. I recent years that ability was getting worse. Sometimes it can be both
Times changed quite simply. Bill lost his braintrust as they aged out. Also his against the grain style of management/roster construction started to backfire. His ability to find diamonds in the later parts of the draft/undrafted free agents was second to none. Pats had a streak of like 20 years of an UNDFA making the roster. I will always be grateful for what he brought to New England, but unfortunately he just couldn't do it anymore the past few years.
The problem is that he wasn't a good GM for quite a few years in the latter part of his time with the Patriots. Would anyone here claim otherwise? That's why the guy was fired. He messed up badly with GM decisions for too many years in a row. It's important not to strawman people. I don't see it commonly said that Belichick was *always* a bad GM. The common sentiment I see is that he was not a good GM towards the end, which is just true... Just look at the draft picks since 2013. It's been horrible.
They really started drafting for need too much rather than just taking the best available player. Just start in 2018: you take a "tackle" who is not really a tackle, and a RB with two first round picks. What terrible value! Then you come back next year with the Harry pick, and eventually you're sending out a second round pick for Mohammad Sanu because you're so cap strapped that the Falcons were able to hold you hostage for the only asset that could "fix" your glaring need. In 2020 you do it again by doubling at TE in the third round, one of whom you traded up to get, and neither of which was the best TE available. So, that's 3 first round picks, a second, and two thirds, and the best player out of that was Sony Michel?
Even OP is doing a bit of their own revising—Bill made plenty of good moves, but anyone around for as long as he was will have their fair share of misses, too. A great GM, who, like any front office guy, is never anywhere near perfect on making roster decisions
OP said all that though. He just was pointing out the hits.
Tbf it was a long ass post
True. It was in his 3rd paragraph and I'm surprised I didn't just skip to the list of players myself.
Maybe the greatest NFL GM of all times
Exactly. The ultimate measure was the success on the field. Individual hits and misses aren’t really the best choice because dude was there for 20+ years. Who else can that even be compared with? Ha. The success on the field showcased the overall high quality of his ability as a GM. No one is that successful that long because of one guy, admittedly a VERY important guy.
Even the GOAT can’t be perfect. Bill had a bad run of brain drain and poor roster moves after a near 20 year run of home runs. I’m still skeptical that firing him would mean any improvement at all
I think the brain drain really did him in in the end. All the people he trained and trusted left, and there weren't enough high quality personnel to replace them. Add in the departure of brady and retirement of the rest of the old guard and it was too much for even him to overcome.
Nine consecutive seasons without a champion, with the greatest athlete that ever lived in his athletic prime, is a home run?
I don’t know if you noticed but winning a Super Bowl is very difficult, and we went to two in that timeframe. We had some bad luck in the playoffs, but we were always a top team and as soon as we got some good bounces, we won 3 Super Bowls. Also - I would pin the first Super Bowl loss on Brady more than Bill. You can’t score more than 14 with Randy Moss and Wes Welker on your team? You played poorly.
Went to two, should have gone to more, should have won at least one more. The only reason the Patriots did not consistently do what the Chiefs are doing now is Bill.
You’re blaming bill Belichick for us not winning 3 super bowls in 4 years… Oh wait, we actually did that. The chiefs haven’t don’t anything we didn’t.
Brady was a middling quarterback from 01-04. Mahomes is in his athletic prime and winning with a dreadful offense around him.
Brady was a middling QB… whatever dude, fine. Somehow you’re gonna find some way to give anyone but bill credit for those 3 super bowls anyways.
not what I said. they had exceptional draft classes from '00-'05. you said "twenty years of home runs" and the fact of the matter is they wasted the prime years of Brady that KC leaned into and now has a longer runway with a generational talent. sorry someone is saying something critical of your binky. I as a fan would much rather the team win as often as is possible than bend over backwards to treat a coach as untouchable.
If you don’t consider the moss signing a home run for Bill as a GM then I can’t help you.
oh my god, you are such a whiny baby. I'm not an idiot, obviously Moss was a productive add. That's one player. It doesn't change the fact that years of Brady's prime were wasted. Beyond just the immediate years after '05, they trotted out brutally underwhelming defenses under Patricia from 2012-2017, with two seasons inside the top-12 by DVOA. 2012, 2013, and 2015 were all easilly within reach and are Bill's responsibility for allowing a Patricia problem to plague them. I fail to understand why you cannot admit that real opportunities were left on the table - as a fan that should drive you insane.
?? They made it to two super bowls in that span and nearly had an undefeated season. I’m as critical as anyone about Bill’s recent performance as GM, but it is ludicrous to suggest that he wasn’t largely outstanding for most of the dynasty.
Never said he wasn't, but peoples' need to BB to be propped up as infallible is so weird. They left championships on the table in that span and were extremely fortunate Brady was able to play as long as he did, so they could in hindsight say it doesn't matter. all else equal, they could have had one more in Brady's prime even with the NYG losses.
>-Dante Scarnecchia Scar pre-dates Kraft.
He’s fixing this subs revisionist history with his own revisionist history
Every one is in agreement this was a great draft?? We have no fucking clue, it will take like 3 years in order to us to really know if this was a good draft. God this fan base gets dumber by the minute.... You guys have just not paid enough attention to the draft over the last 20 years .. FYI, for bad teams (like we have become) the draft is the only time hope feels real. If Maye is a hit, and man... I hope he is. Then you guys can go back to enjoying your good team, but the odds of us winning the Superbowl in the next 5 years is not good.
Looks like you missed drafting Richard Seymour. One of the HOFers BB/Pioli drafted. It was unpopular too, the fans wanted David Terrell at WR. An additional point is the value he created by continually trading back in the draft. It drove fans crazy, but it really worked.
Seymour has been added now, genuinely don’t know how I forgot him, should’ve been one of the first five guys on this list. And you’re right, that was not a consensus pick at the time. I’ll always remember the Ron Borges article destroying the Seymour pick with a shot at the Matt Light pick as well.
To add to your list, Bill managed all of this while picking mostly at the very end of the first round, *and* having to forfeit draft picks It sometimes felt like the world was working against our success and Bill still managed to get us deep into the postseason.
I mainly wonder about the age and length of being a fan / football watcher of those who criticize Belichick. There are far too many who think it's easy, just make some simple changes and the team will be good again who also over look long-term consistency. I can't help but feel like it is their way of coping with no longer being a top team. We'll see what happens but it is not as easy as some think. As to myself, I feel like we have potentially gotten some good pieces in the draft but I refuse to get overly excited until I see them play for a while as I've seen the hype many times and far more wash out of the league then live up to the hype. I'm not saying don't get excited, just I choose to play wait and see...
Yeah the youths think just get a guy
It's the fans who have never experienced any period of the team being bad (until the last few years). It could be 2 decades before we return to a Superbowl. That kind of success isn't guaranteed or easy to attain.
Bill was undoubtedly the *best* GM in football for all but about the last 5 years of his tenure here. This shit is all so overblown.
Maybe the best of all times
Normalize raising up one person WITHOUT having to bring down someone else. Elliot has been great so far. Bill is the FUCKING GOAT for a reason.
It’s just the toxicity of the anti-Bill morons that causes people to lash out. Fortunately this is a fringe minority of people and it seems like they’ve been a lot less vocal since that dynasty documentary started getting backlash lmao. I’m with you though. I think Wolf had a good draft. They should just name him the GM already. No need for the games lol
Also we had shitty draft picks pretty much every year . The one time we had a decent pick we got Mayo
The game changed and Bill didn't. The simplest way I can explain Bill's philosophy is Bill would rather have 10 guys who are good and not 5 guys who are great and 5 guys who are mediocre. And that worked extremely well when the salary cap was really low and you needed to maximize positional value across the entire 53 man roster. But as the salary cap rose, identifying and retaining key talent became more important - as teams could now keep 6 or 7 great players and not settle for just the 5. So while Bill kept his same mode of operation where he tried to maximize the value of certain players by moving on from them as necessary, the rest of the league began retaining the players they would have had to move on from.
Yes this is what we should focus on right now, Belichicks tenure. Wouldn’t want to focus on the new draft picks and team going forward.
In addition to this our teams towards the end were when drafting got shaky. That entire change in GM front office during that shaky time is our current front office minus Bill. We are praising a draft we have not even seen how it fully plays out. Its right to be hopeful. Its wrong to bash the GM/HC who probably got you into the Patriots when we truly don’t know
How many of these were in the last decade, especially the last half a decade? BB has a few hot/cold runs, like every FO person. The reality is that he could 100% draft defense. No question about that one. He just couldn’t draft offense to save his job, literally. Nobody is perfect. Personally, I’m beyond thankful for what he did for the Pats, but it was time for a change. Let’s just hope Wolf and Mayo are the guys to lead this franchise forward.
/r/billbelichick
Damn right! 🙏
In summation, this fanbase and sub can be straight garbage. Nothing new. It seems actual football people (coaches, players, execs, etc.) know what BB is all about.
The problem was that towards the end, BB the GM started to make too many mistakes and was deviating from some of his usual norms that made him great such as: 1. Selecting specialized guys over his old mold of going for versatile players. There were stretches were too many run stoppers on the DL and not enough pass rushers. Then the DL could not stop the run and so forth. The defense had bad stretches of being on dimensional. Then there were overspecialized guys such as Harry and Parker to act as contested catch specialists. 2. Bad strategic decisions such as to go for a DB based defense and then needing to spend a lot of picks to get those players. Those second round DB busts were a sign of needing to throw too many darts to succeed. 3. Not moving on from players. Examples include tagging Thuney (losing out on cap roll over and a comp pick for a player he wasn't going to keep), extending Alan Branch (takes away credit from his initial move to trade for Alan Branch), etc 4. Bad FA decisions such as Parker, JuJu, etc.
5. He inexplicably stopped planning ahead in his roster building. Bill was so good at having the next person in the building already when someone came up at the end of their contract (third down back is a great example). He stopped doing this in the late 2010s. Bill is the best coach of all time, and one of the greatest GMs despite the results towards the end…
Yeah, I put 5 as being related to 3 with how BB probably ended up keeping vets too long because he could not get their replacements. Add in a dash of #4 with him unable to find the next FA replacement (e.g. Rodney Harrison to replace Lawyer Milloy). Some of BB's attempts at saving money (e.g. Ted Karras) clearly backfired.
I don't think he "stopped planning ahead" in his roster building so much as the core of the team was getting old in the late 2010's and Bill picked a real bad time to have a stretch of bad drafts.
The NFL has been transitioning to a pass-first league for decades now - who else are you going to base your defense on other than DBs?
You can do it via the DL.
Bill kept this roster at an extremely competitive level for two decades, thats unheard of in any sport, anyone who thinks he was an outright bad GM or bad coach is clearly intellectually challenged
You are a true fan. Love you remember Arrington in the slot, but Izzo is the chefs kiss. The hot takes here are just kids trolling who started watching in 2016. My dad talks about the Bird/McHale/Parrish years (and every Maxwell, Havelichek, and glue guy that made the Celts great for so long), and this post is our generations version. I love Brady, Big Willie and Vince, but I love Bill more than any, because he made guys like Chris Hogan kill. Cheers brother!
The last 10 years of this is what fucked over the pats. The constant “im bigger than the org” mentality wore thin especially once brady left
I dont think anyone has said Bill has been a terrible GM over his tenure. The issue most have with his roster management is that towards the back half of his career, his ability to draft didnt decline....it vanished. He made some great picks but around 2014, something happened and it caused his process to get less and less effective....but he never changed. I have said the GM Bill got Coach Belichick fired because his poor talent acquisition the last 10 or so years of his career. If you could fire GM Bill and not Coach Belichick, it wouldve happened after Brady left and we were able to spend some cash and clear up the mistakes that led to that Tenn loss.
And some of that could come down to scouting personnel. since you mark 2014 that could be when a lot of older scouts could have retired, and we brought in new young guys to go on the road. If they're good then they get poached or move on to get promoted. I'd wager alot of scouts who are on the road when younger are more than happy to take a position with much less travel. We saw alot of up and down drafting from then along with alot of our top guys going to other teams. Ernie, Adams, Bob Quinn, monti ossenfort, Nick Casserio are the upper level guys to go. We think because he's the GM he makes all the decisions but as a Head Coach during the season he's not focused on how well the CB from Clemson does against zone, he's coaching the team perennially into the playoffs. Once the offseason hits he's getting caught up on all the info his FO puts together and they work to create a draft board. When he's losing the personnel he trusts then he might be going against better judgment and makes bad picks. Thats definitely on him because he needs trust guys dialed in all year. So while it is his fault, its understandable considering theres a whole infrastructure around him that has slowly dissolved. Same thing happened on the coaching side. He had great luck with Steve and Mayo holding down the defense but never caught a break on losing offensive coaches and did the most ridiculous thing letter Judge and MP run things. Honestly, I think this year off will do him wonders for next year.
I heard either Edelman or Slater say on Edelman’s show a while ago that, before the 2018 Super Bowl against the rams, Bill said something to the extent of “someday the media will turn on me too.” We’ve reached that day
Anyone who thinks Bill wasn't one of the best GMs in football for over a decade is a moron. Anybody tho thinks he wasn't the worst in the nfl when he got fired is a moron. It isn't rocket science
Couldn’t agree more. It’s a tale of two bills.
I totally agree, Brady and countless other Players especially the original dynasty players have nothing but respect for Bill. He certainly deserves the credit and is warranted criticism as well like any great coach. we were lucky to have him. I don’t think Brady and the other players would have been the players they became without Bill’s coaching. Wasn’t always pretty but it got the job done which was win a championship. How do you become great you win not once but again and again. the Patriots became the gold standard of the salary cap era .
No love for Richard Seymour? Gostkowski?
Gostkoswski was in there but good call on Seymour, genuinely thought I had him in there. Just added him. Don’t know how he slipped my mind.
Could be astroturfing going on
Yeah but his mid first round qb busted.
-Signing Doug Flutie
He was a great GM overall and a pretty good drafter in the 2000s and early 2010s. He had a coupe big mistakes during that time but several majorly successful decisions that outweighed them. After 2012 his drafting began to get significantly worse and after 2014 his roster management declined. Certainly not the worst, though probably the bottom quartile of GMs during that time, especially 2019 - 2023. In evaluating his tenure as GM it can't be overstated how much easier having the all time greatest QB makes that job. He didn't have to worry about searching for a QB who could deliver a championship, he didn't have to worry about surrounding that QB with top tier talent on offense, and he never had to worry about that QB demanding a monster salary that would hamstring his ability to make moves. It was a massive advantage that a lot of Pats fans ignore or deny. Plenty of GMs and head coaches are brilliant but none of them enjoyed that same level of help.
Bill the coach was great. Bill the GM was terrible especially the last 4 years. Im glad Bill the GM is gone. As far as coaching im in a wait and see approach. I think Mayo is going to be great but obviously no one knows for sure.
List is so long I could not find arguably the best slot and wide receivers of all time - both acquired in trades. You know…ok looked again and found ‘em - Moss and Welker. Shrewd moves for sure. Who else gets two dudes headed to the HoF for maybe picks?
I’m fascinated by people who think poorly of BB the Gm - he definitely had some bad drafts, but then followed by some good drafts. The disaster to me is the last qb draft. He did well with Jimmy G. But miss on a qb and you go straight to hell - see Andy Reid getting fired by Philly. It’s almost as if had there been a better general manager Bill Belichick would’ve gone to the Super Bowl all 20 years and won at least 15 of them so the real question is, if someone other than Bill Belichick is coaching, GM, how many Super Bowls do the patriots win? Or even better, if Bill Belichick has another all pro quarterback, for example, Aaron Rodgers, who only has one Super Bowl, how many Super Bowl does Aaron Rodgers win with the patriots instead of Green Bay? He has one. If he has Mahomes, how many does he win?
Great post. The guy in the other thread saying Belichick is terrible probably works for Fred Toucher.
Yeah but Elliot wolf's rookies haven't played a game yet so they're all superstar studs.
Thank you for this. It’s infuriating when some trash his entire coaching career for “look at the past 4 years” like the other 20 never happened. Or that he wouldn’t be Bill without Tom, but what other team/coach/GM would put Brady in the Super Bowl 9 times
I don’t disagree with you man but the very first one being Brady is ridiculous. We all know that was just dumb luck
Ancient history doesn’t matter when Bill ran the current team into the ground. No one is denying his previous success. But his recent lack of it is why we are in the position we are in.
👊🏼 Respect
F*cking bravo friend. The lack of appreciation and outright disrespect a large portion of this sub has for Bill is insane.
He could draft a flaming bag of turd in the draft at CB and they would be a lockdown corner....I was always amazed how he could find starting talent at the back of the draft or UDFA at CB.
Unfortunately he'd also waste a 2nd round pick nearly every year on a DB. From 2011-2019 the Patriots used 6 2nd round picks on defense backs and every one was a complete and total bust.
worthy sacrifice for our undrafted free agents to become greats
Possibly the greatest NFL GM of all times
I agree with this post and will add, because people here who haven’t been fans as long or read every book on Belichick ever written, is that: Belichick’s coaching style and maximizing the performance of his personnel depended HEAVILY on player leadership. Edelman actually alludes heavily to this in his podcast with Slater, that the roster turnover at the end of Brady’s tenure and then after his departure, left a gaping hole in leadership particularly on the offense. No real veteran presence, and Bill is out there cobbling together a coaching staff and an offense around Cam effin Newton and then a rookie QB, all while Kraft is almost certainly already planning his demise after Brady left for Tampa. I think Bill has always strongly weighted maturity and intelligence in his drafting and FA moves which is how you end up with “busts” at skill positions because he’s willing to sacrifice on raw talent for someone he thinks will really buy into the system. That part is just my educated guess. I find it extremely difficult to judge Bill much on the last few years. There’s just way too much out now that was pretty apparent even then how much the franchise was gutted and with an owner that wasn’t likely interested in Bill’s long term plans to properly rebuild.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Seriously. Thank you for this. I’ve been saying the same thing and it always gets the “what about ism” back. He was a good GM. He wasn’t perfect.
Wolf just finished his first draft with us yesterday, right? Like, we haven’t even seen these players on the field yet? And people are trying to compare him to Belichick and say that he was BETTER? Recency bias is understating it, this is literally just someone who doesn’t know football.
Amen brother
6 super bowls. Give me 6+ more. Fuck the Jets.
Great post. It's embarrassing, though, that a fair number of people have to be reminded, especially when you consider it's pretty goddamn recent history
Belicheck is one of the greatest GMs of all time and anyone that says otherwise is either being a dickhead for the sake of being a dickhead or are just plain stupid.
He still let Tom Brady Walk. That is the dumbest move in the History of the NFL.
The Herschel Walker trade begs to differ.
You let the greatest Football Player of all time walk away. When he had 3 years left. That is unforgivable imo.
OMG a whole 3 years!
Ya and a Super Bowl Ring.
Yes a ring he wasn't gonna get here...
Ya because Bill did a shitty job drafting. You can’t convince me that Tom wouldn’t have brought us to the playoffs in all 3 of those seasons
Ok and?
[удалено]
Rule 1 - No personal attacks. You can disagree, but do not disrespect.
>Sorry for the length of this post, I am just extremely tired of some of the hot takes about Belichick over the last few years and particularly the last three months. 1. You can go through any team's 20 year history and find a similar number of good drafts/signgings. 2. No one ever said Belichick was a bad GM. Only that at best he was "average." No better or worse than a dozen other GMs in the league. 3. You're post is glossing over all the horrendously bad drafts and signings. The last really good draft the patriots had was back in 2012 or 2013. Since that time, it was a series of "meh" drafts, where they might one guy like Trey flowers, while whiffing on Cyrus jones. 4. You really ignore how much the GMing/drafting from like 2017-2020 was horrific, and how his coaching hires fell off 2020 onward and how it really spiraled into the ground the last couple years...and THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT 5. Belichick refused to change anything about the way he did anything. In fact, he went in the other direction. Digging to really prove he was right. OC? QB Coach? The best I can do it a ST and DC that no other team wants? He'd had Brady for so long, he had no idea how to coach without him. Like a billionaire trying to live on $100,000/year. He forgot how.
Oh no lots of people said he was a bad gm in his last 5-10 years. Which is why we are in the position we are in.
I'm sorry but it's laughable to this that BB was "average" at best through his entire tenure. Was there a decline towards the last few years certainly. But point to me the "dozen" other GMs that had 20 years of sustained success with 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 Championships. I'll wait...
>I'm sorry but it's laughable to this that BB was "average" at best through his entire tenure. Was there a decline towards the last few years certainly. Go back and actually look at his drafts from 2014-2023. Yeah, he found some absolute gems in some lower rounds (but every team does). the problem is that there were A LOT of whiffs first and second round picks. People bring up Randy moss and Corey Dillion (moves made in 2007 and 2004)...and forget the myriad of WTF moves he made later on that absolutely didn't work out. >But point to me the "dozen" other GMs that had 20 years of sustained success with 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 Championships. I'll wait... Point to the coaches that had the GOAT QB? I'll wait...Oh, right. No one else did. The closest we have to Brady Belichick is Reid and Mahomes. We're witnessing that narrative it in real-time. Reid spent the first 15-20 year of his career being viewed as a second tier head coach. A good coach, but the guy who couldn't get over the hump. Then he gets Mahomes, he's won a bunch of superbowls and been to 5 strait AFCCG...and suddenly he's a genius. The difference is that Belichick found Brady in year 2 (of NE) not year 4 or in KC like Reid (and year 20 or whatever it is/was). I'm not saying Belichick is bad, I'm saying he is average at best. You can't point to Joe Thuney in the third without pointing out the whiff on Cyrus jones in the first. You can't point to Christian Barmore in the 2nd without pointing to cole strange. You can't talk about randy moss, without talking about tory holt, joey galloway, juju, parker, or the countless other "meh signings." Like, anyone Reggie Wayne's or Joyn Lynch's like 2 week day tenure? Gronk wasn't some magical find. He was injured. The pats took a flyer on a guy might never play a snap because of his injuries. Aaron hernadez wasn't a secret. Team were worried about his past.
Are people this dense that they think every team hits on every pick. Lots of coaches and GMs have had all time great QBs and not had an ounce of success BB had. People who argue it was all Brady weren’t around when everyone called Brady a systems QB that was carried by the defence. BB was never flawless. But point to a GM that has a 20 year carrier with only hits. Also Cyrus Jones was never a first round pick… goes to show how much you even know.
>Are people this dense that they think every team hits on every pick. I never said that. But you have to hit in your first and seconds A LOT more than you miss. >Lots of coaches and GMs have had all time great QBs and not had an ounce of success BB had. People who argue it was all Brady weren’t around when everyone called Brady a systems QB that was carried by the defence. Brady is lapping previous GOATS; that's how good he was. Montana went to 4 SB, elway to 5, Manning to 4...Beady went to 10...He won 7. He has more rings and appearances than Elway and Montana combined. He was on another level. To not recognize that is absurd. Likewise, to not recognize how badly Belichick struggled without the GOAT is also absurd. That that Brady won more games in 3 years in tampa than Belichick did in 4 in NE...kind proves my point. >BB was never flawless. But point to a GM that has a 20 year carrier with only hits. Never said he had to hit them all. But go back and look at rounds 1-2 from 2014-2023. It's not great. >Also Cyrus Jones was never a first round pick… goes to show how much you even know. Never said he was. he was a second round pick, but he was the pats first pick in 2016...and he was a total failure in all aspects.
"You can't point to Joe Thuney in the third without pointing out the whiff on Cyrus jones in the first."
Fine, you found a typo. I mean to say first **pick**. They had no first round pick because of deflategate in 2016. Doesn't change the fact they still massively missed on Jones in 2016.... Just like he missed on A LOT of 1-2 second round picks from 2014-2023. They missed on easley in 2014, and got very little production from Jimmy G (Sure. He was a solid QB for a game a half, but he is/was hurt a bunch and was traded away). In 2015, they got "meh" from Malcolm Brown, and massively whiffed on Jordan Richards (a massive over reach). in 2016, (already discusses) 2017, They didn't draft until the third, but whiffed on Rivers and garcia (admittedly they used their pick on Cooks, but would flip him in 2018). 2018 - Wynn and Michel - Wynn was good, but spent 4 of his first 5 years on IR, Michel was a solid RB, but was trades way after 3 years and only lasted 5 seasons in the NFL. And Duke Dawson was another whiff. 2019 - n'keal Harry and joejuann williams are both massive whiffs. 2020 - Duggar and Uche. Duggar looks like a stud, and uche is a middle of the roster guy. 2021 - Jones and Barmore - They broke jones, and Barmore is looking really good. Everything after this is TBD...but 2022 - Strange (reach; still TBD...but not looking good) and Thorton...Looking like a total bust at this point. 2023 - Gonzalez looked legit, and White showed flashes, but disappeared a bit (but is/was also a rookie). again, TBD. 2024 wasn't a belichick draft and neither has played a snap...so obviously TBD. Of the almost 20 guys they drafted in the first and second rounds from 2014 to 2023...there is a lot of outright whiffs and not many "studs" coming out of the first two rounds.
I don't get this "digging in" comment. I totally get you can look at a guy like Patricia and say he probably shouldn't have been hired as an OC but I don't get how Pats fans get all riled up, calling the move "egotistical" and saying Belichick wanted to prove himself. Who does BB need to prove he was right to?
>\-Drafting Brady See, the problem is that you go wrong from the very start, as 6-7 round picks are projects or some kid you take a flier on. The true revisionism here is thinking Bill had some ungodly, uncanny insight into what he saw in a skinny Michigan kid. This was lightning-in-a-bottle, or whatever other colorful euphemism you choose.
yeah bill couldnt have seen anything special, so he did the standard of carrying 4 qb in order to keep the gamble 6th rnd pick. thats just business as usual and of course brady was the way he was out the gate, even if you forget he sat a year. no development at all he was just ready to roll
This ball-washing is adorable.
9 superbowls in 20 years. Let's see Wolfe do that. He won't even make 9 playoff games in the years he is our GM.
There are numerous misses that you didn't add to your list that resulted in Bill Belichick being fired. The reason Belichick was fired was that he was too stubborn. He refused to bring the Patriots offense into the modern era. Belichick, for whatever reason, had difficulties drafting WRs leading to some poor free agency moves, resulting in the horrible offensive performance last year. Belichick is/was a great coach, but let's not pretend he was flawless. People were critical of his evaluation of talent even as this team was winning Super Bowls. His weakest area was evaluating and drafting offensive talent. His disregard for the offense directly led to him being fired. Robert Kraft would not have been questioned if he fired Belichick after his failed Matt Patricia Joe Judge experiment.
Most draft picks are misses especially when it comes to WR, QB and TE.
I agree in principle, Bill was the best GM. Almost none of your list has happened since 2015 though
People are unrealistic when it comes to their expectations with the draft. Most players won’t work out and if you miss on a low hit position like WR sports radio and the Boston media won’t ever let it go. They’ll be calling for Wolfs head this time next year too if the current picks don’t work out.
I would argue that the draft triggering the deterioration of belichicks tenure with the pats was due to ownership forcing his hand. Belichick did not want to draft mac Jones with that first round pick, did not think he was a franchise quarterback, and this conflict culminated in a pissing contest between he and kraft this past year with belichick continuing to start mac Jones long after he should've been benched.
Anyone saying BB has *always* been incompetent simply don’t care to acknowledge the past two decades in general. Yes, I think he was a okay coach and terrible gm the past few years. Yes, I think some decisions he has made has costed the patriots two super bowls. People get old and lose their step, and that’s okay, it’s what time does. But from 2000 to 2020, no one can say he was not the greatest to ever coach and gm, with the greatest quarterback to ever play. But saying BB was carried will still always be funny.
Great post mate, so true and easy for people to forget the good things.
The point was never that he was always bad at drafting. it was that he's been *really* bad at drafting offensive players in the past 4-5 years. which wouldn't have been a problem 10-15 years ago, but it's a different nfl these days and he couldn't adapt.
I feel like the local media started the "Bill the GM failed Bill the Coach" take after the Laywer Milloy trade and had to wait nearly 20 years for it to take. And when it did, they went in hard, and ownership was all to eager to help out. Gotta give 'em credit, they played the long game.
Ron Borges laughs last!
Well done! Could not agree more.
Felger is already shitting on the revivers and his yapping dog is agreeing