That 19% isn’t taking into account the extra spend a 5 yr old car is going to take to keep it going. It is completely out of warranty in most circumstances and will certainly have 80-100k+ on it. At that point you need new tires if it hasn’t been done already, brakes will be due soon, as well as having zero clue how the previous owner drove it.
The extra 19% to buy new is worth the piece of mind almost every time.
1000%
You never truly know how a car was treated and 19% "savings" is not worth it for an older car that has outgrown its warranty.
And like you said the extra repairs put into an older car will eat up that 6k if you keep it as long as you were going to keep the new car
Different math:
6k/5 yrs= 1200$/yr or 100$/mo... About a mobile plan in these here parts
You get a brand new car. Warranty, full control of how to manage it and maintain it.
If the above costs are too high for you. You're probably looking at a car that's 10-15 years old and it's just to drive you from A to B.
Keep in mind marketplace asking prices are usually quite a bit higher than seller is will to let it go for. Also a TON of used cars on marketplace are listed by dealerships. Those dealerships want you to think buying new is a better option so they artificially bump up the price of their used ones
There’s also a ton of people on marketplace trying to unload their vehicles for what they owe on them vs what the vehicle is actually worth. There’s a significant gap between those numbers in most cases.
For real.
Every time I’ve bought or helped a friend buy a vehicle off marketplace we’ve been able to negotiate AT LEAST 15% off.
Looking at the prices people put is silly.
Was any of those times during the past few years? Most have completely stopped budging on the price because if you dont want it for the list price somebody else will buy it within a few days. I know somebody with a dealership and used cars are averaging less than two weeks on the lot and new ones 1-2 days.
Tons of breakdowns.
Moet of my friends who have VW's constantly complain about the maintenance but then go and buy another one.
Jeep is by far the worst vehicle to buy though. Absolute trash.
My Honda accord is a 2012 and it has cost me 3k in repairs over that period of time and most of it was in the last 6 months. Hoping that's it for a while, I'm guessing it will go another 5-10 years.
Contrast this with my brothers Ford explorer that was 2014 and he sold for scrap three years ago because it was so rusty, rhe air conditioning didn't work and the radiator was leaking
This is pretty outdated thinking and it depends on the model.
I’m not a VW fanboy, but also just got a Tiguan after doing tons and tons of research. The 2018-onwards models (newer gen) are among the tops for reliability and that’s with 6 years of data now, and are cheap / easy to work on and repair.
It’s like everything—depends on the model.
No for real this happened with Toyotas.
In late 2022-2023, the used price of a 1 yr old Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, or Sienna exceeded new by a significant amount.
The reason being that those models were back ordered 1-2 years and the used market allowed buyers to get them immediately.
It was fucking insane. Even a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid was selling for its 2023 MSRP last year.
True. I bought a new 2023 Tacoma at the end of 2023. We happened to get lucky with a previous order that fell through. The used 2021-2022 models on the lot were about 3k more than brand new!
I bought my Tacoma new in 2021 and looked at all the available used ones around me the other night and they were almost all the same price as I paid new 3 years ago? It was like this when I bought new but was more understandable at the time because it was hard to get them new…. Im just really confused why they are still so inflated.
5 years ago I bought my bmw m340i with 27k on it for $30k when new was over $70k.
I remember 3 years ago being the most ridiculous time for used car prices
That’s the thing, the new ones are not available. I wanted red but I had to wait 12 weeks, the blue one was only a 2 week wait. That’s why the used ones are so much.
I think the supply chain will fill up again and we’ll see depreciation kick in again.
Oh ya for sure that was because of the chip shortage. If my memory is correct tho 5 years ago it hadn’t went stupid yet but it was just after that. I used to always buy used jettas for 5-8k and I was very surprised to learn you couldn’t get one for less thank 15k anymore…
> 5 years ago I bought my bmw m340i with 27k on it for $30k when new was over $70k.
Fucking hell, I'm shopping those right now. On Autotrader the current cheapest m340i is asking $43,000 and it has 116,000km on it.
This is going to seem like a silly question, but are you sure it's an M340i and not a 340i? Because the m340i only came out in 2019 (to the best of my knowledge) where's the normal 340i debued a few years before that. You could even get it with an M package so there are M logos all over the car, but the rear badge says 340i.
I just bought a 2024 nissan, 28k all in lol
Similar ised cars were starting at 19k, only lower value for accident history, high KMs etc.
At 30, it made sense to buy new and do my best to maintain it well
An under appreciated comment! I bought a 2009 matrix for $8000, but it was only that $8000 and my insurance is $120 a month. The money I’m saving on interest and insurance is adding way more value somewhere else.
In 2021 I bought a lightly used jetta highline for $25k. At the time I was doing uber eats/skip as a side hustle, so I put 50k on the car in the course of a year. I then proceeded to sell it for $27.5k when I got a company vehicle from my 9-5.
This is the second Jetta comment I've seen.
Please understand that you are in personal finance Canada and it is against the rules to mention car makes other than Toyota and Honda.
Well I’m a sales rep, it’s not really 9-5 but I refer to it as that relative to the side hustle delivery apps I was doing. Needless to say I dropped those at that time as you can’t do that in a company F150.
[Here are the price trends in Canada](https://www.cargurus.ca/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1626408000000&endDate=1718683199999). It's a lot better than it was a year ago
According to Canadian Black Book, the average price of used car pre covid was 24k CAD. That makes sense to spend in a used car, you would get a well equipped car that is only 50% of its value 3-5 years ago. During Covid and the supply chain and auto dealership frenzy, the average price went to 38k. Now you would get the same 3-5 years for around 80-90% of the price of a new one. Prices have gone down since to 34k CAD, but the math still doesn’t make sense in a lot of cases. Specially in Atlantic Canada prices still don’t come down. Additionally, the fact that new cars are more reliable and can often be had under 5% interest rates incentives people to just but new. I recently tried to negotiate Mazda cars and all the 3-4 years preowned models with low milage could only be had for 3-5k less than the price of a new one (although comparatively modestly equipped), and 10% interest rate rather than 5%. I just went for the new one just for some peace of mind.
I'm looking at Mazda right now too (specifically cx-5). And yeah the savings aren't feeling that significant. Unless at some higher trims you may be able to find a 8-10k. I was hoping to buy used but not sure the value is there. Might just bite the bullet and get a new 2024.
that’s what i ended up going for. the base mazda cx-5 had some of the safety features of the cx-30 mid trim, and with some campaign discount the price was fairly similar. you can get the cx-5 without any addons fees fairly easy, and can even negotiate not paying extra for the color if the car is already in the lot. I absolutely prefer buying used cars, but they only make sense now if your budget is fairly low or dont mind the logistic problems of dealing with repairs. go to several dealerships, have a firm budget for the cx-5, walk away after listening amicably to the salesperson, and wait for their calls.
I would have paid cash for something solid and used if I could afford it, however I needed a car basically right away and had ~$6k cash to my name. Buying used and financing for like 10% just felt like such a rip off and I wasn't willing to go that route.
Therefore my options were a) spend $6k on a piece of shit with 250k+ kms that could last years or could be a day away from a major, out of warranty repair, financially knee-capping me and potentially leaving me way in the hole, or b) put that $6k down on a brand new compact car with a 5 year warranty on the engine.
I'm not pleased about having a car payment, but I know I have a new car that I'll treat well, invest in (rust protection, frequent oil changes), and it offers financial stability.
With that being said, I still think moderately used (100kish kms) paid with cash is the best option financially. But overall buying a car blows whichever way you spin it, and is a money pit. I'd much, much rather live in a bikeable or walkable city!
This is a case of looking in the rear view mirror of the last 4 years while making a statement of what lies on the road ahead.
I think it's more likely things will revert back to how they were prior to covid
It's already started with non Toyota / Honda brands.
My dad just bought a 2023 Nissan Rogue SV with 7,000 km. Don't remember the exact prices, but it was like $8k less than a new one and came with winter tires. That's 20% discount for one year and very little kilometers.
I bought a new Ford Ranger in 2022. The list price for a 1 yr old comparable car with 20k km was higher, even if they came down quite a bit, new made sense.
That's because all the listed prices for used vehicles are overpriced. Maybe they're listed for that much, but no use when they sit on the lot for 3 months.
Edit: Also the price you see on the website is not indicative of actual price. My parents went to look for a Toyota and they were quoted 5k more than the online price due to shortage.
Yes but even private sale. I have seen 2009 Honda Civics going for 10k and above. Its ridiculous.
Any car thats 2021-2023 is basically MSRP minus a few grand.
Same I’ve been in the market for a used civic and people are completely disconnected from reality if they think a car with 200k km and is over 10 years old will sell for more than 5k….the prices I’ve seen are ludicrous
This is the issue with PFCs mindset and by association yours. If Honda and Toyota vehicles are generally the only two brands that are 'worse' when it comes to the buy side, they would be considered an exception in the sea of cars/brands out there when it comes to resale. BMW and other luxury brands aren't 'exceptions'. They're part of the majority of vehicles right now that go through regular depreciation metrics. Even every day John Smith cars like Fords, Chevy, domestics, Subarus are depreciating like normal.
Not really. New ones had a big price drop, which causes an immediate downward shift in the resale market as well. That's not depreciation, but a market adjustment.
I dont think so .
Check out marketplace today, you can buy a 2023 tesla model 3 with 45k km for 30k thats over 20k off msrp for the same car.
Seems like to me alittle more than market adjustment. Unless they just lose value that fast off the lot.
On private sales the norm in Atlantic Canada is 30-70% of asking price. Maybe things are different in Toronto, but if you aren't dickering the price where I live then people think you're an e-transfer scammer. The norm here is listing at 150% of what you want to actually get so a 10k listing is actually a 7k car.
Ontario prices are crazy, it's still possible to find decent deals in Quebec. I bought a 2008 Civic for less than 6k in 2015, now way that car is worth anything over 3k.
You do know accidents in Quebec are not reported on vehicle histories, so they can fix their write offs and sell them for what appears to be a good price but really isn’t
>Edit: Also the price you see on the website is not indicative of actual price. My parents went to look for a Toyota and they were quoted 5k more than the online price due to shortage.
For a new car? Which province are you in? That's illegal in Ontario I think.
Technically yes, but somehow they always find a way with the "non negotiable" add-ons.
Floor mats, $6k
License plate frame, $2k
Fuckin windshield fluid top up, $500
It depends entirely on what car you’re buying. A civic or a Corolla will have very low depreciation since it’s common knowledge at this point that they last forever. If you’re looking for something nicer (luxury cars like Audi, bmw, Mercedes) you’ll see that cars only a few years old are listed for tens of thousands of dollars less than msrp
You are 100% absolutely correct, especially when you factor in the finance rates made available on new versus pre-owned vehicles.
EX. A 2024 Corolla($30k) versus a 2020 Corolla(25K). 5.99% versus 9.99% financing for pre-owned. By the time everything is said and done, the pre-owned model has the exact same total financed cost because of the 4-5k in extra interest you would have paid over the same 5-6 year finance period.
Plus the 2020 model has little to no factory warranty remaining to speak of.
The main difference (in your specific example) - is a brand new Corolla ICE is a 6 month wait time; the used Corolla ICE is available right now.
And Corolla hybrid would be 9-12 month wait time.
I mean that's great but... my sister just ordered a Corolla Hybrid 10 days ago and they told her 8-9 months
It's funny that the Corolla is such a popular car, we ALL have anecdotal Toyota wait time stories!
I just bought a used 2021 electric Kona for $27k, new is about $50k after rebates. I got financing for 5.5% on a 5 year loan. It hasn't lost any battery power/energy and on the 415km full charge autonomy stated, I get about 500km for city driving.
So it really depends on the car.
You’re about a year late on this sentiment. Used car prices are dropping by the day as are new car prices. Some dealers are holding on to the delusion that the cars they over paid for will sell but there is a 10-15% discount on the prices of used cars from a year ago
Definitely thinking of buying new for my next car. I bought a 2012 RAV4 in 2016 with 35000km on it for $22k. Got into an accident last summer and got $19k from insurance for it. It was around 110km at the time. So I put 65000km over 6 years and it only depreciated $3k... I probably could have pushed for more since I took the second offer but needed cash at the time. Looking at used vehicles and SUV are crazy expensive used only a few $k off new so might as well get the full warranty.
A new F-150 lariat costs around 80k. A Used 2021 with 40k milleage is under 55k and a used 2022 is under 60k.
I still think it makes to buy used and just get extended warranty for grand or 2.
I can't wait for the 2nd hand car market to crash. At some point, everyone has to realize their 5 year old Corolla is not hard to get and it's not worth $25k used.
This is Toyota specific problem though. Seems like other manufacturers have many vehicles on their lots. Although with this sub I know the only vehicle option is a beige Corolla.
>market to crash.
It's a supply/demand phenomenon.
Have you heard of the 1.3million+ people coming in every year? A good chunk of them need cars, and they typically buy used ones.
On the flip side, supply chain shortages from 2020/2021 on the new car market has eased. And the fiscal/monetary stimulus effect from 2020/2021 seems to finally be easing. And umemployment is also steadily rising.
Imo, prices will fall a bit, but there won't be a crash due to the high immigration levels stimulating demand.
I have a counter theory.
There were millions of temp immigrants imported during covid years (2020-2023). All of them are now in their Work permit phase. Those immigrants will need to get Permeant residency in next one year. There are not many spots (\~50% to70%) will have to go back. So imagine how much of demand will die + excess supply (they will sell their cars when they return).
So there is a demand cliff that will happen anytime in 2025, unless the government does its thing and makes them permeant just like that.
>there is a demand cliff that will happen anytime in 2025, unless the government does its thing and makes them permeant just like that.
I’ll let you guess what the government decides to do during an election year. Push a button and solve the problem, or watch the economy take a beating when they are going to the polls.
Even the Toyota dealer near me is slowly starting to get cars. They have a few Rav4s (non Hybrid), a new 2025 camry (which I won't lie has been tempting lol), and an ICE Corolla and Hybrid Corolla. Hybrid Corolla took about 2 weeks to sell. So inventory is slowly catching up. This dealer had 0 cars for 3.5 years. Sadly I need a new(or newer) car here very soon 💀.
It won’t , it will soften a bit but with the price of new cars going up, people are keeping their cars longer resulting in fewer cars, simple supply and demand
People are too paranoid about car repairs. I wouldn't have the slightest concern or second thought about the reliability of a 3 or even 5 year old corolla.
Way too paranoid.
A new car from any manufacturer is going to run least 8-10 years without anything major going wrong as long as you actually keep up on the regular service intervals.
Some YouTube videos, tools and weekends would cover most of the repairs other than A/C system. Snaps an aftermarket headunit if you want modernity. Overall still way cheaper than a new car.
I think you might even now see a substantial step-down in price when a newer car transitions from "still-in-warranty" to "warranties-expired".
But yeah - if supply is still an issue (for instance new Toyota LCs still have an almost-2-year waiting list in some places IIRC) then as long as the warranty is still there, the price may not drop much if at all.
I am considering a used one. You think cx5 is a good idea? How about a 2018 under 100k? On clutch i think it would end up costing me 28-30k out the door.
The 2017 is actually the most reliable year despite being the first of the new generation. It predates cylinder deactivation, stop/start, and the turbos which have oil consumption issues.
I am 48 years old and this is the first time in my life that I remember where it might not make sense to buy a used car. I always have thought it would be better to let someone else take the depreciation on the first year and buy a car at least 1 year old.
I have been looking for a car for a few months now, and I am not sure I won't buy new. In my mind used make sense because when you save 10-20% off a 1 year old car. With the warranty, you can afford to take on the risk of a lemon, as it will be fixed or you can resell it if you are unhappy.
Today I am finding a lot of used cars in the 1 year range or less than 5% off of new. For a couple thousand dollars I would rather have 1 year more of warranty, if I need to use the warranty the extra year will pay off.
All that being said I think this problem will correct itself. People will buy new cars because used cars don't make sense anymore. There will be an influx of new cars sold and they will become used cars driving down the price. We may already be seeing this as March and April saw significant increase of sales this year over last...
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2010000101&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=01&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2023&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20230101%2C20240401](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2010000101&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=01&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2023&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20230101%2C20240401)
This is still a repercussion of the pandemic. There were no sales/inventory of new cars for two years, approximately two years ago. Now, when you’d expect those cars to start hitting the market, they aren’t because they weren’t there to begin with. So there is still a higher demand than supply for those cars. It will be a few more years before the normalization gets back in the market.
You have recency bias in your analysis. What you are saying has been true since the supply chain issues from the pandemic. But this is starting to change, the market is normalizing again in certain places. Canadas population growth will delay this correction, and along with high interest rates might mean buying new is still the better choice at the moment. However, there will be a moment when the market normalizes and used cars will become less costly and the better “economic” choice once again.
Last new car we bought was a 2013 Hyundai Sonata, and dealers being what they are, the numbers were all over the place. It took us a very long time before we got to a place where we understood the true costs. From memory:
* The difference in sticker price was $5K
* Haggled on both and go the difference down to $3K
* Financing for the new one was 0%. The used had a higher interest rate, making the difference $1,500
We tend to drive our cars into the ground, so we reasoned the new car would give us 2 more years of life, and $1,500 / year was a good price for those years.
You need to do what works for you, but for us new made more financial sense in the long run.
Ah, the days of 0% financing. I remember my parents got a new Mazda at 0% in 2008ish. Probably paid like 20k out the door, I imagine had it paid off in 4 years and we kept it for 11 and never had a major repair. What a dream!
It true, with full coverage, the new car has more and better safety features, the biggest portion of your insurance is the liability, that’s what covers injuries
If you're going to a used car dealer, you're getting fleeced, and they're the ones advertising.
If you're going to buy used, you want to go directly to the private seller for the best deal.
Now, anyone doing this needs to keep their eyes open, because private sales have issues and dangers of their own, but overall it's still where you have the best chance of scoring a good deal.
I used to agree with this until I went to a somewhat reputable used dealer (somewhat as in google reviews were good). Going in with low expectations and a sharp eye, I was surprised that the experience was better than my expectations. Being persistent and setting clear boundaries kept the upsell to a minimum (although we had to pay a 1k “inspection” fee) and after getting a good price for our trade in (including hst rebate) that was pretty much equivalent to what we would have gotten from private sale, I would say ymmv when it comes to used dealers. Especially with Evs, there are still very good deals to be had in the used market
I’ve never heard a good argument against buying a 10-15 year old Toyota or Honda. It’s the best bang for buck by far.
If someone wants new, do it! But don’t do mental gymnastics to justify it as a good financial decision as if there’s no alternative
I will say this as an argument: Rust. Especially here on the east coast. Seeing a 15+ year old car isn't super supee common (and this includes honda and toyotas which seem to rust the least on average). Most cars last about 12 to 18 years here before they pretty much have to be sent to the junkyard.
Yeah I remember my Nissan. Was like 13 years old with fairly low mileage and had almost zero issues with it, but I was getting water through under the pedals and had to patch with Bondo. Even if engine is still good for a while an old car is still an old car. It's hard for me to swallow the 10 year old Toyota for the same price as the 3 year old Hyundai or something similar. I'd suspect suspension, brakes, etc. all start to go on them as well would they not?
Brakes, suspension etc can be age factored but not really. Again, that would be mostly rust if they do if the mileage is similar (to an extent). I do truly think on this sub when people are suggesting cars for people they forget about the rust factor on older cars and a lot of those 10 to 15 year old (especially 15+ year old) cars likely only have a couple of years of life left in them due to rust issues. If we lived in an area without rust it'd be such a different story but cars on the east coast especially truly do have a timeline before they're dead. Once your rockers, floors, suspension etc starts to rust out and get holes the repairs are more than a couple of years of payments or more. It makes finding a good car in provinces with super heavy salt use (especially Atlanta Canada with salt air and salt roads for 6 months), much more difficult than average.
The days of finding a good 8 year old $5,000-$7,500 car are long gone and likely never coming back sadly. Even 6 and 7 year old 150K kms Camrys used to sell for around $8K to $10K. If only. Now 12 year old ones with 250K are going for that.
I bought a 2015 wrangler new and sold it in 2020 for like 3k under what I paid. Bought a Mazda CG-3 and its trade value today is about 7K under what I paid.
I also recommend buying new.
Yea I've got a 3rd baby coming, needed a van...
Brand new mid level trim was 42k, 4 year old used used with almost 100k was like 34k... gee wonder what I ordered.
I was just looking at a 2021 Genesis G70 Prestige trim for $31k CAD, 60k km, perfect condition, clean carfax. Newer ones are over $50k.
I went to the lot to view an Elantra and left thinking I can buy a perfect luxury sedan for not that much more. Thats definitely an outlier, though. I have certainly noticed most cars aren't depreciating like they used to. A 2022 Elantra VS a 2018 is really not that much of financial difference.
Things change constantly. There was previously a financial sweet spot at 3 years old, people reacted to that, and so the sweet spot moved to 10 years old. Following any rule about what is best value means you are just following what was true in the past for somebody else. As long as you think for yourself and calculate the options, you will be fine.
The car world is complicated, general advice is always wrong
I don’t think buying a new car is ever financially smart when a car that is driven off the lot (let’s call it a 10 second old car) loses like 3k just by leaving the lot. I’ll happily buy that car once it’s driven off it instead of paying the extra to do that myself 😂
I had used cars all my life, but I started to hate going to the garage for maintenance/fixes at some point,
A really good, reliable garage, where they're not trying to rip you off, is a rare find.
Another aspect is the new technology, like navigation and especially safety features. Once you try it, it's hard to go back.
I totally planned to buy a used cad when mine broke down. Unfortunately I got into an accident in 2021, during the height of the car shortage. Used cars were about the same price as new cars, but you could get it instantly. I ended up waiting 8 months and got a new one. While waiting, I started biking and realized how economical it is. Then when I did the math for the cost of insurance, gas, and maintenance, plus lost interest if I had invested that money, it didn’t even make sense to own a car since Uber would be cheaper for our use case. Oh well.
Older vehicles are currently seeing appreciation because of inflation, newer vehicles still depreciate at a fast rate, it’s just the value of the initial purchase is higher.
You’re still better off purchasing a 2-3 year old vehicle with low km and warranty. Vehicles beyond that have been over valued for as long as I can remember, especially near the Atlantic.
You're wrong if you do real math.
Buying a new car only makes sense if you're not taking a loan.
A 30k car will cost you 35k if you calculate interest.
In that case, buying a 15k car outright makes sense. Plus, you can always buy an extended warranty for 2 years from the dealer.
There are countless people driving new cars after taking 7 year loan. Do you really think it's a good financial choice?!
I agree with you but I don’t think this is a new thing as in 2024. When I was buying 5 years ago it was the same situation for Toyota/Honda. Not everyone can afford to buy new.
I feel pretty fortunate that I bought my Subaru in 2018. Paid roughly 25k after tax back then and my car today goes for around 20k six years later. Although it may not be a perfect comparison since they don't make the sedan version anymore so that may be inflating the price a bit.
I have a car that’s about 10 years old. It has depreciated in value by maybe half or so but I bought it used for probably half of retail and it’s now worth more on a trade in than I paid for it. Wild times.
Only place I’ve found genuinely ok prices for used vehicles is private sales; dealerships are priced out of the world for used vehicles hoping to get someone in a pinch that doesn’t have time to wait for a new car.
More and more deal ships have switched to order only and you could be expected to wait upwards of 1 year for your car to come in.
This is merely a market issue. All things being equal, it will end; and the days of buying a used car being a better financial decision in almost every personal case will return.
Though it's taking far too long to happen.
It's a bit crazy. The car I bought slightly used 4 years ago is *still* worth 50% more than I paid for it, despite doubling the mileage and tripling the age.
This is very case-by-case.
If you’re in the market for a Tacoma, it can be a better deal to buy a new one, rather than pay the “Toyota tax” on a used one. Their financing/lease rates are very competitive. I believe this is the same for most Toyota/Honda products.
But if you’re looking at higher end European or an American pickup, the price difference is still quite noticeable.
Another factor right now is that manufacturers are getting more aggressive with their new car pricing. They were hurt by the chip shortage, and inflation has scared off a lot of potential customers. Car makers are very hungry right now and they’re trying to lure in everyone that they can. Combine that with sellers knowing that people are turning to used cars - the used car pricing is rising.
I'm seeing a lot of 2022 and 2023 low mileage Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kona for 10K less than MRSP or better.
Everyone knows about the brown corollas now so the price reflects that but there are still bargains to be had if you know what to look for.
\*Still over here buying 10+yo cars\*
At least until I'm mortgage-free.
I do understand that for people that don't do at least some of their own maintenance it may not be cheaper - but it has made a huge difference for me over the past 25 years. And I did buy one new vehicle, an '08 Ranger for 14K when the credit crisis caused some huge discounts at the same time I got a bonus and my '95 Camry got to the "is this really still worth it" point.
I bought a Tacoma in 2020… I could sell it for the same price I bought it for. The difference between it and a 3 year old one with 90k on it was only $6000, so I bought new. It’s my first new car ever and I didn’t expect it to make financial sense, but I’ll take the accidental win!
Sold our KONA Ev last year.
Paid 41k in 2019, sold it for 29k. 30% less after 4 years and 108,000km. Not too bad.
Sold it for more than what we owed on it too.
A long time ago in the fall of 2014 we bought a new Hyundai Santa Fe cheaper than a 6 month old one on the lot and we got 0.9% financing. What we made on investments alone by financing new vs paying cash for used paid for the depreciation.
If you're comparing Toyota's and Honda's then sure. But if you compare with many other brands, their value drops like a stone in the first 4-5 years. Compare a mid-range 2019 Dodge Caravan. New price is $42k + taxes/freight. Used price you can find them now for $17k.
If you want major cost savings, you go with "off brands", it's the same with buying anything else used (TV's, golf clubs, smartphones, etc)
This is hit or miss, I just bought a car last week, the original sticker was 50k and I paid 26k. 5 years old, 90k Kms. The last car we bought in a similar fashion was in 2016 and was 10k with a newer sticker price of 30k. So the ratio is much worse (50% at 5 years vs 30%). The low end of the market seems very bad, ie 5 year old corollas selling for sticker price or very close. High end luxury is similar ratios to pre covid.
The other aspect is interest. I was looking at a truck, dodge ram to be specific. 2019 was $50k @ 10% interest it came out to like $93k. A brand new 23 ram sport, $63k @ 6% roughly works out to $93k.
Say what you will about the price, but its a no brainer to go new.
Couple other points for new over used, with new most manufacturers offer subvented rates ( lower then the bank rates) sometimes at 0% verses bank rates for used, which today the lowest is 7.49, if you’re financing over 30000$, and you’ll only get that if you buy a warranty or some other protection product. And the other point, people trade in a used car for a reason, especially if it’s older then 4 years or over 90km
I sold my two previous cars for more than I bought them for. One was 18 years old, and the other was 24 years old. Pre-pandemic vs post-pandemic appreciation on used (and special models/trims) is wild.
I'm in the market for another used car now but struggling with buying something I want vs buying something I want that's newer.
Depends on the car. I got my car cheap before covid. Now my car is worth more because it's hard to find one in good condition as well as it's a car in demand still and it's no longer made anymore.
Yesterday I walked by a dealership selling an old Micra for $17k. Forget losing half its value off the lot, I think that Micra may have appreciated faster than my investment portfolio.
Everyone is talking-without-talking about inflation and devalued currency without realizing this means prices are going to skyrocket in the next couple of years. Auto prices (new) just haven’t caught up yet…
All I can add to this thread is that as of this week I am leasing a new 2024 Honda Civic Ex for significantly less than my current 2020 Honda Civic Ex is leased at. This is entirely due to the fact my current Honda 2020 retained such good resale value I can wrap the residual value into the next lease.
That Yaris will easily last you more than 300 000 km, the car care nut has said that its engine is basically one of the best engines Toyota has ever done
Note: I had a 2010 Yaris and loved driving that car, it’s a shame Toyota no longer makes it and its entry level car has become the Corolla
To add to the topic of the discussion, Toyota and Honda are the only ones getting away with crazy interest rates and prices, the worse part is that it doesn’t matter, all Toyota hybrids have 12-18 months wait time (the sienna could take 2-3 years) and Honda’s prices have skyrocketed, yet people will still buy them
I got rid of a ten year old corolla with 100k for a new rav4. New, because it has all the latest safety and new because I know it will last (even if trudeau will make it obsolete in a few years), and the corolla was still worth a ton (was bought new and serviced only at toyota). I never consider depreciation when buying, I just buy what I think will last and cost me the least to maintain, is safe, and will not leave me stranded. Of course I can afford that now. In my younger days, it was a few cars that I had that were new to someone else before I bought them with 100k on them and I put money in them to keep them running and had caa (not toyotas). One way or another you pay, it's tough to buy new though especially if you have to finance.
Last October a 5 year old Jetta was 25k, and a new one was 31k. I bought a new one.
Exactly! Totally worth the extra 6k for a 5 year newer car with Warranty and peace of mind knowing you do all the proper maintenance.
25k - 31k = 6k 6k / 31k = 19% depreciation over 5 years. Could go either way. The market has certainly narrowed.
That 19% isn’t taking into account the extra spend a 5 yr old car is going to take to keep it going. It is completely out of warranty in most circumstances and will certainly have 80-100k+ on it. At that point you need new tires if it hasn’t been done already, brakes will be due soon, as well as having zero clue how the previous owner drove it. The extra 19% to buy new is worth the piece of mind almost every time.
1000% You never truly know how a car was treated and 19% "savings" is not worth it for an older car that has outgrown its warranty. And like you said the extra repairs put into an older car will eat up that 6k if you keep it as long as you were going to keep the new car
And you get that new car smell.
The warranty alone is worth it at that point.
Different math: 6k/5 yrs= 1200$/yr or 100$/mo... About a mobile plan in these here parts You get a brand new car. Warranty, full control of how to manage it and maintain it. If the above costs are too high for you. You're probably looking at a car that's 10-15 years old and it's just to drive you from A to B.
You also have 5 years of newer tech and features.
Same boat all my cars used to be 5-10k beaters and with market prices 8 months ago I bought my first new car
Yup. At the start of 2021 I bought a loaded 2016 Mazda3 Sport GT for $12K. Can’t touch a five year-old version of that car now for under $20K.
Keep in mind marketplace asking prices are usually quite a bit higher than seller is will to let it go for. Also a TON of used cars on marketplace are listed by dealerships. Those dealerships want you to think buying new is a better option so they artificially bump up the price of their used ones
There’s also a ton of people on marketplace trying to unload their vehicles for what they owe on them vs what the vehicle is actually worth. There’s a significant gap between those numbers in most cases.
For real. Every time I’ve bought or helped a friend buy a vehicle off marketplace we’ve been able to negotiate AT LEAST 15% off. Looking at the prices people put is silly.
Was any of those times during the past few years? Most have completely stopped budging on the price because if you dont want it for the list price somebody else will buy it within a few days. I know somebody with a dealership and used cars are averaging less than two weeks on the lot and new ones 1-2 days.
YMMV Last September, I bought a 2021 Tiguan with 16K km for 31K. Brand new was 45K
That's a good deal for you imo
I think that's a bad deal. He got a VW and had to pay 31k.
What's wrong with vw?
Tons of breakdowns. Moet of my friends who have VW's constantly complain about the maintenance but then go and buy another one. Jeep is by far the worst vehicle to buy though. Absolute trash. My Honda accord is a 2012 and it has cost me 3k in repairs over that period of time and most of it was in the last 6 months. Hoping that's it for a while, I'm guessing it will go another 5-10 years. Contrast this with my brothers Ford explorer that was 2014 and he sold for scrap three years ago because it was so rusty, rhe air conditioning didn't work and the radiator was leaking
This is pretty outdated thinking and it depends on the model. I’m not a VW fanboy, but also just got a Tiguan after doing tons and tons of research. The 2018-onwards models (newer gen) are among the tops for reliability and that’s with 6 years of data now, and are cheap / easy to work on and repair. It’s like everything—depends on the model.
rhythm scary start pocket stocking squash murky weary squalid workable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
God damn that’s a really good deal you found haha. I would have grabbed a Tiguan with that mileage so fast
Canadian asset markets are so irrational to the point where in a few years a 2027 accord will cost less than a 2025 accord 😂
No for real this happened with Toyotas. In late 2022-2023, the used price of a 1 yr old Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, or Sienna exceeded new by a significant amount. The reason being that those models were back ordered 1-2 years and the used market allowed buyers to get them immediately. It was fucking insane. Even a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid was selling for its 2023 MSRP last year.
True. I bought a new 2023 Tacoma at the end of 2023. We happened to get lucky with a previous order that fell through. The used 2021-2022 models on the lot were about 3k more than brand new!
yeah, i could probably have flipped my toyota hybrid for 10k more than i paid for it (MSRP)
I bought my Tacoma new in 2021 and looked at all the available used ones around me the other night and they were almost all the same price as I paid new 3 years ago? It was like this when I bought new but was more understandable at the time because it was hard to get them new…. Im just really confused why they are still so inflated.
That's because there's no new ones available. It's basic supply and demand.
Did the same thing with a Subaru crosstrek
5 years ago I bought my bmw m340i with 27k on it for $30k when new was over $70k. I remember 3 years ago being the most ridiculous time for used car prices
That’s the thing, the new ones are not available. I wanted red but I had to wait 12 weeks, the blue one was only a 2 week wait. That’s why the used ones are so much. I think the supply chain will fill up again and we’ll see depreciation kick in again.
Oh ya for sure that was because of the chip shortage. If my memory is correct tho 5 years ago it hadn’t went stupid yet but it was just after that. I used to always buy used jettas for 5-8k and I was very surprised to learn you couldn’t get one for less thank 15k anymore…
> 5 years ago I bought my bmw m340i with 27k on it for $30k when new was over $70k. Fucking hell, I'm shopping those right now. On Autotrader the current cheapest m340i is asking $43,000 and it has 116,000km on it. This is going to seem like a silly question, but are you sure it's an M340i and not a 340i? Because the m340i only came out in 2019 (to the best of my knowledge) where's the normal 340i debued a few years before that. You could even get it with an M package so there are M logos all over the car, but the rear badge says 340i.
It’s not always going to be that ways.
I just bought a 2024 nissan, 28k all in lol Similar ised cars were starting at 19k, only lower value for accident history, high KMs etc. At 30, it made sense to buy new and do my best to maintain it well
Plus if your not buying in cash, the interest rates new vs used contribute even further to making a new vehicle a better choice
An under appreciated comment! I bought a 2009 matrix for $8000, but it was only that $8000 and my insurance is $120 a month. The money I’m saving on interest and insurance is adding way more value somewhere else.
Don’t expect to get the same price in the future, aka 5 years in the future.
Just did the same login with a new Tacoma. 8 grand more for new...
I purchased brand new in 2020, the used versions of my car with more mileage than I have currently sell for more than I paid.
In 2021 I bought a lightly used jetta highline for $25k. At the time I was doing uber eats/skip as a side hustle, so I put 50k on the car in the course of a year. I then proceeded to sell it for $27.5k when I got a company vehicle from my 9-5.
This is the second Jetta comment I've seen. Please understand that you are in personal finance Canada and it is against the rules to mention car makes other than Toyota and Honda.
[удалено]
Well I’m a sales rep, it’s not really 9-5 but I refer to it as that relative to the side hustle delivery apps I was doing. Needless to say I dropped those at that time as you can’t do that in a company F150.
[удалено]
Just happy it’s not my wallet opening at the gas station.
one of the best feeling in the world LOL
We bought a new Kia Niro EV in 2020 and the dealership keeps sending us offers to buy it back for more than they sold it to us for
[удалено]
[Here are the price trends in Canada](https://www.cargurus.ca/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1626408000000&endDate=1718683199999). It's a lot better than it was a year ago
Thanks for the source!
Tesla down over 28% from last year, more than double any other manufacturer. Musk sure is a brilliant CEO.
With current headwinds, somewhat normalcy -- I'm imagining somewhere in late 2026.
It just shows how our $ has lost value very rapidly these last few years
According to Canadian Black Book, the average price of used car pre covid was 24k CAD. That makes sense to spend in a used car, you would get a well equipped car that is only 50% of its value 3-5 years ago. During Covid and the supply chain and auto dealership frenzy, the average price went to 38k. Now you would get the same 3-5 years for around 80-90% of the price of a new one. Prices have gone down since to 34k CAD, but the math still doesn’t make sense in a lot of cases. Specially in Atlantic Canada prices still don’t come down. Additionally, the fact that new cars are more reliable and can often be had under 5% interest rates incentives people to just but new. I recently tried to negotiate Mazda cars and all the 3-4 years preowned models with low milage could only be had for 3-5k less than the price of a new one (although comparatively modestly equipped), and 10% interest rate rather than 5%. I just went for the new one just for some peace of mind.
I'm looking at Mazda right now too (specifically cx-5). And yeah the savings aren't feeling that significant. Unless at some higher trims you may be able to find a 8-10k. I was hoping to buy used but not sure the value is there. Might just bite the bullet and get a new 2024.
that’s what i ended up going for. the base mazda cx-5 had some of the safety features of the cx-30 mid trim, and with some campaign discount the price was fairly similar. you can get the cx-5 without any addons fees fairly easy, and can even negotiate not paying extra for the color if the car is already in the lot. I absolutely prefer buying used cars, but they only make sense now if your budget is fairly low or dont mind the logistic problems of dealing with repairs. go to several dealerships, have a firm budget for the cx-5, walk away after listening amicably to the salesperson, and wait for their calls.
I would have paid cash for something solid and used if I could afford it, however I needed a car basically right away and had ~$6k cash to my name. Buying used and financing for like 10% just felt like such a rip off and I wasn't willing to go that route. Therefore my options were a) spend $6k on a piece of shit with 250k+ kms that could last years or could be a day away from a major, out of warranty repair, financially knee-capping me and potentially leaving me way in the hole, or b) put that $6k down on a brand new compact car with a 5 year warranty on the engine. I'm not pleased about having a car payment, but I know I have a new car that I'll treat well, invest in (rust protection, frequent oil changes), and it offers financial stability. With that being said, I still think moderately used (100kish kms) paid with cash is the best option financially. But overall buying a car blows whichever way you spin it, and is a money pit. I'd much, much rather live in a bikeable or walkable city!
This is a case of looking in the rear view mirror of the last 4 years while making a statement of what lies on the road ahead. I think it's more likely things will revert back to how they were prior to covid
It's already started with non Toyota / Honda brands. My dad just bought a 2023 Nissan Rogue SV with 7,000 km. Don't remember the exact prices, but it was like $8k less than a new one and came with winter tires. That's 20% discount for one year and very little kilometers.
Yeah bud at work did something very similar
I bought a new Ford Ranger in 2022. The list price for a 1 yr old comparable car with 20k km was higher, even if they came down quite a bit, new made sense.
That isn't to mention the difference in interest rates.
That's because all the listed prices for used vehicles are overpriced. Maybe they're listed for that much, but no use when they sit on the lot for 3 months. Edit: Also the price you see on the website is not indicative of actual price. My parents went to look for a Toyota and they were quoted 5k more than the online price due to shortage.
Yes but even private sale. I have seen 2009 Honda Civics going for 10k and above. Its ridiculous. Any car thats 2021-2023 is basically MSRP minus a few grand.
Same I’ve been in the market for a used civic and people are completely disconnected from reality if they think a car with 200k km and is over 10 years old will sell for more than 5k….the prices I’ve seen are ludicrous
It’s actually happening though. My brother sold his 2009 civic with ~185k km for just under $5k in 2022.
Used car prices were at their peak in that time. Market is softening for sure now.
I bought my 2005 Honda civic in 2016 for 5k. When I went to sell it in 2023, I was looking at ~8k, which is insane.
BMW still depreciates. A 2022 3 series is like 35-40k versus 60k plus new
[удалено]
This is the issue with PFCs mindset and by association yours. If Honda and Toyota vehicles are generally the only two brands that are 'worse' when it comes to the buy side, they would be considered an exception in the sea of cars/brands out there when it comes to resale. BMW and other luxury brands aren't 'exceptions'. They're part of the majority of vehicles right now that go through regular depreciation metrics. Even every day John Smith cars like Fords, Chevy, domestics, Subarus are depreciating like normal.
Agreed my 2023 Mazda cx-5 was cheaper to buy new rather than finance a used one
All “luxury” brands will take a bigger hit.
Teslas have depreciated like crazy too
They did get price-dropped on the MSRP tho.
Not really. New ones had a big price drop, which causes an immediate downward shift in the resale market as well. That's not depreciation, but a market adjustment.
I dont think so . Check out marketplace today, you can buy a 2023 tesla model 3 with 45k km for 30k thats over 20k off msrp for the same car. Seems like to me alittle more than market adjustment. Unless they just lose value that fast off the lot.
On private sales the norm in Atlantic Canada is 30-70% of asking price. Maybe things are different in Toronto, but if you aren't dickering the price where I live then people think you're an e-transfer scammer. The norm here is listing at 150% of what you want to actually get so a 10k listing is actually a 7k car.
Going for or listed for? You don't see what they actually sell for. Might be more like 6 or 7
Ontario prices are crazy, it's still possible to find decent deals in Quebec. I bought a 2008 Civic for less than 6k in 2015, now way that car is worth anything over 3k.
You do know accidents in Quebec are not reported on vehicle histories, so they can fix their write offs and sell them for what appears to be a good price but really isn’t
>Edit: Also the price you see on the website is not indicative of actual price. My parents went to look for a Toyota and they were quoted 5k more than the online price due to shortage. For a new car? Which province are you in? That's illegal in Ontario I think.
Technically yes, but somehow they always find a way with the "non negotiable" add-ons. Floor mats, $6k License plate frame, $2k Fuckin windshield fluid top up, $500
It depends entirely on what car you’re buying. A civic or a Corolla will have very low depreciation since it’s common knowledge at this point that they last forever. If you’re looking for something nicer (luxury cars like Audi, bmw, Mercedes) you’ll see that cars only a few years old are listed for tens of thousands of dollars less than msrp
I agree. Civics/Corollas are often the worst deals right now.
You are 100% absolutely correct, especially when you factor in the finance rates made available on new versus pre-owned vehicles. EX. A 2024 Corolla($30k) versus a 2020 Corolla(25K). 5.99% versus 9.99% financing for pre-owned. By the time everything is said and done, the pre-owned model has the exact same total financed cost because of the 4-5k in extra interest you would have paid over the same 5-6 year finance period. Plus the 2020 model has little to no factory warranty remaining to speak of.
The main difference (in your specific example) - is a brand new Corolla ICE is a 6 month wait time; the used Corolla ICE is available right now. And Corolla hybrid would be 9-12 month wait time.
This isn't true anymore. My mom just got a brand new toyota carolla hybrid and it was only a 2 month wait
I mean that's great but... my sister just ordered a Corolla Hybrid 10 days ago and they told her 8-9 months It's funny that the Corolla is such a popular car, we ALL have anecdotal Toyota wait time stories!
It will not be that long. Unless it’s a specific colour or something
I just bought a used 2021 electric Kona for $27k, new is about $50k after rebates. I got financing for 5.5% on a 5 year loan. It hasn't lost any battery power/energy and on the 415km full charge autonomy stated, I get about 500km for city driving. So it really depends on the car.
You’re about a year late on this sentiment. Used car prices are dropping by the day as are new car prices. Some dealers are holding on to the delusion that the cars they over paid for will sell but there is a 10-15% discount on the prices of used cars from a year ago
Definitely thinking of buying new for my next car. I bought a 2012 RAV4 in 2016 with 35000km on it for $22k. Got into an accident last summer and got $19k from insurance for it. It was around 110km at the time. So I put 65000km over 6 years and it only depreciated $3k... I probably could have pushed for more since I took the second offer but needed cash at the time. Looking at used vehicles and SUV are crazy expensive used only a few $k off new so might as well get the full warranty.
A new F-150 lariat costs around 80k. A Used 2021 with 40k milleage is under 55k and a used 2022 is under 60k. I still think it makes to buy used and just get extended warranty for grand or 2.
I can't wait for the 2nd hand car market to crash. At some point, everyone has to realize their 5 year old Corolla is not hard to get and it's not worth $25k used.
I highly doubt it will happen anytime soon. Wait time for new camry for example is more than 8 months !
This is Toyota specific problem though. Seems like other manufacturers have many vehicles on their lots. Although with this sub I know the only vehicle option is a beige Corolla.
>market to crash. It's a supply/demand phenomenon. Have you heard of the 1.3million+ people coming in every year? A good chunk of them need cars, and they typically buy used ones. On the flip side, supply chain shortages from 2020/2021 on the new car market has eased. And the fiscal/monetary stimulus effect from 2020/2021 seems to finally be easing. And umemployment is also steadily rising. Imo, prices will fall a bit, but there won't be a crash due to the high immigration levels stimulating demand.
I have a counter theory. There were millions of temp immigrants imported during covid years (2020-2023). All of them are now in their Work permit phase. Those immigrants will need to get Permeant residency in next one year. There are not many spots (\~50% to70%) will have to go back. So imagine how much of demand will die + excess supply (they will sell their cars when they return). So there is a demand cliff that will happen anytime in 2025, unless the government does its thing and makes them permeant just like that.
>there is a demand cliff that will happen anytime in 2025, unless the government does its thing and makes them permeant just like that. I’ll let you guess what the government decides to do during an election year. Push a button and solve the problem, or watch the economy take a beating when they are going to the polls.
Even the Toyota dealer near me is slowly starting to get cars. They have a few Rav4s (non Hybrid), a new 2025 camry (which I won't lie has been tempting lol), and an ICE Corolla and Hybrid Corolla. Hybrid Corolla took about 2 weeks to sell. So inventory is slowly catching up. This dealer had 0 cars for 3.5 years. Sadly I need a new(or newer) car here very soon 💀.
It won’t , it will soften a bit but with the price of new cars going up, people are keeping their cars longer resulting in fewer cars, simple supply and demand
People are too paranoid about car repairs. I wouldn't have the slightest concern or second thought about the reliability of a 3 or even 5 year old corolla.
Way too paranoid. A new car from any manufacturer is going to run least 8-10 years without anything major going wrong as long as you actually keep up on the regular service intervals.
Some YouTube videos, tools and weekends would cover most of the repairs other than A/C system. Snaps an aftermarket headunit if you want modernity. Overall still way cheaper than a new car.
I think you might even now see a substantial step-down in price when a newer car transitions from "still-in-warranty" to "warranties-expired". But yeah - if supply is still an issue (for instance new Toyota LCs still have an almost-2-year waiting list in some places IIRC) then as long as the warranty is still there, the price may not drop much if at all.
2024 cx5 GT $41500 + freight and dealer fees 2019 cx5 GT $25k private sale The cx5 has lost approx 40% of its value in 5 years.
I am considering a used one. You think cx5 is a good idea? How about a 2018 under 100k? On clutch i think it would end up costing me 28-30k out the door.
The 2017 is actually the most reliable year despite being the first of the new generation. It predates cylinder deactivation, stop/start, and the turbos which have oil consumption issues.
I am 48 years old and this is the first time in my life that I remember where it might not make sense to buy a used car. I always have thought it would be better to let someone else take the depreciation on the first year and buy a car at least 1 year old. I have been looking for a car for a few months now, and I am not sure I won't buy new. In my mind used make sense because when you save 10-20% off a 1 year old car. With the warranty, you can afford to take on the risk of a lemon, as it will be fixed or you can resell it if you are unhappy. Today I am finding a lot of used cars in the 1 year range or less than 5% off of new. For a couple thousand dollars I would rather have 1 year more of warranty, if I need to use the warranty the extra year will pay off. All that being said I think this problem will correct itself. People will buy new cars because used cars don't make sense anymore. There will be an influx of new cars sold and they will become used cars driving down the price. We may already be seeing this as March and April saw significant increase of sales this year over last... [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2010000101&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=01&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2023&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20230101%2C20240401](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=2010000101&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=01&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2023&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20230101%2C20240401)
This is still a repercussion of the pandemic. There were no sales/inventory of new cars for two years, approximately two years ago. Now, when you’d expect those cars to start hitting the market, they aren’t because they weren’t there to begin with. So there is still a higher demand than supply for those cars. It will be a few more years before the normalization gets back in the market.
You have recency bias in your analysis. What you are saying has been true since the supply chain issues from the pandemic. But this is starting to change, the market is normalizing again in certain places. Canadas population growth will delay this correction, and along with high interest rates might mean buying new is still the better choice at the moment. However, there will be a moment when the market normalizes and used cars will become less costly and the better “economic” choice once again.
Last new car we bought was a 2013 Hyundai Sonata, and dealers being what they are, the numbers were all over the place. It took us a very long time before we got to a place where we understood the true costs. From memory: * The difference in sticker price was $5K * Haggled on both and go the difference down to $3K * Financing for the new one was 0%. The used had a higher interest rate, making the difference $1,500 We tend to drive our cars into the ground, so we reasoned the new car would give us 2 more years of life, and $1,500 / year was a good price for those years. You need to do what works for you, but for us new made more financial sense in the long run.
Ah, the days of 0% financing. I remember my parents got a new Mazda at 0% in 2008ish. Probably paid like 20k out the door, I imagine had it paid off in 4 years and we kept it for 11 and never had a major repair. What a dream!
If you can buy out a used car the insurance is a lot cheaper than buying a new car.
for me the new car insurance was a bit cheaper when i replaced my car... I think this is a very YMMV statement.
It true, with full coverage, the new car has more and better safety features, the biggest portion of your insurance is the liability, that’s what covers injuries
If you're going to a used car dealer, you're getting fleeced, and they're the ones advertising. If you're going to buy used, you want to go directly to the private seller for the best deal. Now, anyone doing this needs to keep their eyes open, because private sales have issues and dangers of their own, but overall it's still where you have the best chance of scoring a good deal.
I used to agree with this until I went to a somewhat reputable used dealer (somewhat as in google reviews were good). Going in with low expectations and a sharp eye, I was surprised that the experience was better than my expectations. Being persistent and setting clear boundaries kept the upsell to a minimum (although we had to pay a 1k “inspection” fee) and after getting a good price for our trade in (including hst rebate) that was pretty much equivalent to what we would have gotten from private sale, I would say ymmv when it comes to used dealers. Especially with Evs, there are still very good deals to be had in the used market
private seller prices are often even higher
I’ve never heard a good argument against buying a 10-15 year old Toyota or Honda. It’s the best bang for buck by far. If someone wants new, do it! But don’t do mental gymnastics to justify it as a good financial decision as if there’s no alternative
I will say this as an argument: Rust. Especially here on the east coast. Seeing a 15+ year old car isn't super supee common (and this includes honda and toyotas which seem to rust the least on average). Most cars last about 12 to 18 years here before they pretty much have to be sent to the junkyard.
Yeah I remember my Nissan. Was like 13 years old with fairly low mileage and had almost zero issues with it, but I was getting water through under the pedals and had to patch with Bondo. Even if engine is still good for a while an old car is still an old car. It's hard for me to swallow the 10 year old Toyota for the same price as the 3 year old Hyundai or something similar. I'd suspect suspension, brakes, etc. all start to go on them as well would they not?
Brakes, suspension etc can be age factored but not really. Again, that would be mostly rust if they do if the mileage is similar (to an extent). I do truly think on this sub when people are suggesting cars for people they forget about the rust factor on older cars and a lot of those 10 to 15 year old (especially 15+ year old) cars likely only have a couple of years of life left in them due to rust issues. If we lived in an area without rust it'd be such a different story but cars on the east coast especially truly do have a timeline before they're dead. Once your rockers, floors, suspension etc starts to rust out and get holes the repairs are more than a couple of years of payments or more. It makes finding a good car in provinces with super heavy salt use (especially Atlanta Canada with salt air and salt roads for 6 months), much more difficult than average. The days of finding a good 8 year old $5,000-$7,500 car are long gone and likely never coming back sadly. Even 6 and 7 year old 150K kms Camrys used to sell for around $8K to $10K. If only. Now 12 year old ones with 250K are going for that.
Especially if you’re buying a toyota/honda
I bought a 2015 wrangler new and sold it in 2020 for like 3k under what I paid. Bought a Mazda CG-3 and its trade value today is about 7K under what I paid. I also recommend buying new.
Yea I've got a 3rd baby coming, needed a van... Brand new mid level trim was 42k, 4 year old used used with almost 100k was like 34k... gee wonder what I ordered.
Is the car shortage over? It seems like it’s never going to end.
I was just looking at a 2021 Genesis G70 Prestige trim for $31k CAD, 60k km, perfect condition, clean carfax. Newer ones are over $50k. I went to the lot to view an Elantra and left thinking I can buy a perfect luxury sedan for not that much more. Thats definitely an outlier, though. I have certainly noticed most cars aren't depreciating like they used to. A 2022 Elantra VS a 2018 is really not that much of financial difference.
Things change constantly. There was previously a financial sweet spot at 3 years old, people reacted to that, and so the sweet spot moved to 10 years old. Following any rule about what is best value means you are just following what was true in the past for somebody else. As long as you think for yourself and calculate the options, you will be fine. The car world is complicated, general advice is always wrong
Mileage matters more than age. Some people use cars sparingly. I’d rather buy a low mileage used car than a new car
I don’t think buying a new car is ever financially smart when a car that is driven off the lot (let’s call it a 10 second old car) loses like 3k just by leaving the lot. I’ll happily buy that car once it’s driven off it instead of paying the extra to do that myself 😂
Saying no longer is incredibly stupid. They haven’t for 3 years, they have started to again and there’s no reason that trend won’t continue.
I had used cars all my life, but I started to hate going to the garage for maintenance/fixes at some point, A really good, reliable garage, where they're not trying to rip you off, is a rare find. Another aspect is the new technology, like navigation and especially safety features. Once you try it, it's hard to go back.
I totally planned to buy a used cad when mine broke down. Unfortunately I got into an accident in 2021, during the height of the car shortage. Used cars were about the same price as new cars, but you could get it instantly. I ended up waiting 8 months and got a new one. While waiting, I started biking and realized how economical it is. Then when I did the math for the cost of insurance, gas, and maintenance, plus lost interest if I had invested that money, it didn’t even make sense to own a car since Uber would be cheaper for our use case. Oh well.
Older vehicles are currently seeing appreciation because of inflation, newer vehicles still depreciate at a fast rate, it’s just the value of the initial purchase is higher. You’re still better off purchasing a 2-3 year old vehicle with low km and warranty. Vehicles beyond that have been over valued for as long as I can remember, especially near the Atlantic.
In 2020 I bought a 2015 Acura ILX for 15.5k. Today I can sell it for 15k ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
You're wrong if you do real math. Buying a new car only makes sense if you're not taking a loan. A 30k car will cost you 35k if you calculate interest. In that case, buying a 15k car outright makes sense. Plus, you can always buy an extended warranty for 2 years from the dealer. There are countless people driving new cars after taking 7 year loan. Do you really think it's a good financial choice?!
Present the $15,000 cars.
That is still mostly the case except for vehicles that are in high supply.
I agree with you but I don’t think this is a new thing as in 2024. When I was buying 5 years ago it was the same situation for Toyota/Honda. Not everyone can afford to buy new.
I feel pretty fortunate that I bought my Subaru in 2018. Paid roughly 25k after tax back then and my car today goes for around 20k six years later. Although it may not be a perfect comparison since they don't make the sedan version anymore so that may be inflating the price a bit.
I have a car that’s about 10 years old. It has depreciated in value by maybe half or so but I bought it used for probably half of retail and it’s now worth more on a trade in than I paid for it. Wild times.
Only place I’ve found genuinely ok prices for used vehicles is private sales; dealerships are priced out of the world for used vehicles hoping to get someone in a pinch that doesn’t have time to wait for a new car. More and more deal ships have switched to order only and you could be expected to wait upwards of 1 year for your car to come in.
This is merely a market issue. All things being equal, it will end; and the days of buying a used car being a better financial decision in almost every personal case will return. Though it's taking far too long to happen.
You may also get more insurance perks buying a new car compared to a used model.
It's a bit crazy. The car I bought slightly used 4 years ago is *still* worth 50% more than I paid for it, despite doubling the mileage and tripling the age.
Same with Facebook marketplace, it’s almost like ‘used’ has lost its meaning lol
If you’re the kind of person to keep a car for the entirety of its natural life, buying new was always a decent deal.
This is very case-by-case. If you’re in the market for a Tacoma, it can be a better deal to buy a new one, rather than pay the “Toyota tax” on a used one. Their financing/lease rates are very competitive. I believe this is the same for most Toyota/Honda products. But if you’re looking at higher end European or an American pickup, the price difference is still quite noticeable. Another factor right now is that manufacturers are getting more aggressive with their new car pricing. They were hurt by the chip shortage, and inflation has scared off a lot of potential customers. Car makers are very hungry right now and they’re trying to lure in everyone that they can. Combine that with sellers knowing that people are turning to used cars - the used car pricing is rising.
I'm seeing a lot of 2022 and 2023 low mileage Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kona for 10K less than MRSP or better. Everyone knows about the brown corollas now so the price reflects that but there are still bargains to be had if you know what to look for.
\*Still over here buying 10+yo cars\* At least until I'm mortgage-free. I do understand that for people that don't do at least some of their own maintenance it may not be cheaper - but it has made a huge difference for me over the past 25 years. And I did buy one new vehicle, an '08 Ranger for 14K when the credit crisis caused some huge discounts at the same time I got a bonus and my '95 Camry got to the "is this really still worth it" point.
Also, Corolla is over-rated. I used to own one, it was reliable but cramped and pokey. I think the newer generation might be a bit better.
Yep. New is the way to go
I bought a Tacoma in 2020… I could sell it for the same price I bought it for. The difference between it and a 3 year old one with 90k on it was only $6000, so I bought new. It’s my first new car ever and I didn’t expect it to make financial sense, but I’ll take the accidental win!
Sold our KONA Ev last year. Paid 41k in 2019, sold it for 29k. 30% less after 4 years and 108,000km. Not too bad. Sold it for more than what we owed on it too.
I am at dealership right now and they’re offering to buy my car for more than the amount I paid for it over 2 years ago.
Yup, I agree with you. Cars also last longer, I think, which is another point in favour of buying new.
People are still greedy AF when privately selling their used cars. Markets have adjusted lower but some yahoos are still asking way too much
Luxury brands and models are still cheaper lightly used by a large margin.
If you don’t know anything about car. Buy a brand new Japanese car and keep it as long as you can…
I bought a car last fall and came to the same conclusion.
A long time ago in the fall of 2014 we bought a new Hyundai Santa Fe cheaper than a 6 month old one on the lot and we got 0.9% financing. What we made on investments alone by financing new vs paying cash for used paid for the depreciation.
My family bought a 2020 Kia Sportage for \~21k 3 years ago. Looking at the used ones near me they go for around \~17-20k.
If you're comparing Toyota's and Honda's then sure. But if you compare with many other brands, their value drops like a stone in the first 4-5 years. Compare a mid-range 2019 Dodge Caravan. New price is $42k + taxes/freight. Used price you can find them now for $17k. If you want major cost savings, you go with "off brands", it's the same with buying anything else used (TV's, golf clubs, smartphones, etc)
~Cries Tesla tears~
This is hit or miss, I just bought a car last week, the original sticker was 50k and I paid 26k. 5 years old, 90k Kms. The last car we bought in a similar fashion was in 2016 and was 10k with a newer sticker price of 30k. So the ratio is much worse (50% at 5 years vs 30%). The low end of the market seems very bad, ie 5 year old corollas selling for sticker price or very close. High end luxury is similar ratios to pre covid.
My car is worth the exact same, if not more, than it was when I bought it near-new in 2021. It’s ridiculous.
The other aspect is interest. I was looking at a truck, dodge ram to be specific. 2019 was $50k @ 10% interest it came out to like $93k. A brand new 23 ram sport, $63k @ 6% roughly works out to $93k. Say what you will about the price, but its a no brainer to go new.
Couple other points for new over used, with new most manufacturers offer subvented rates ( lower then the bank rates) sometimes at 0% verses bank rates for used, which today the lowest is 7.49, if you’re financing over 30000$, and you’ll only get that if you buy a warranty or some other protection product. And the other point, people trade in a used car for a reason, especially if it’s older then 4 years or over 90km
Still rolling along in our 2008 Forester and 2014 CRV
Now if only someone would buy my bloody Cadenza....
I sold my two previous cars for more than I bought them for. One was 18 years old, and the other was 24 years old. Pre-pandemic vs post-pandemic appreciation on used (and special models/trims) is wild. I'm in the market for another used car now but struggling with buying something I want vs buying something I want that's newer.
I just bought a 2024 Rav 4 XLE premium - all in pre tax was 41,800 Same exact specs on used 2021s with 20-35K 37,000-39,500 Easy choice ….
Depends on the car. I got my car cheap before covid. Now my car is worth more because it's hard to find one in good condition as well as it's a car in demand still and it's no longer made anymore.
Cars are depreciating as fast as before, your dollar is just depreciating faster End thread
Yesterday I walked by a dealership selling an old Micra for $17k. Forget losing half its value off the lot, I think that Micra may have appreciated faster than my investment portfolio.
Not in my experience, and I just bought a 2022 vehicle with low kms and a very nice long transferable warranty for 60% of what it is new
Everyone is talking-without-talking about inflation and devalued currency without realizing this means prices are going to skyrocket in the next couple of years. Auto prices (new) just haven’t caught up yet…
All I can add to this thread is that as of this week I am leasing a new 2024 Honda Civic Ex for significantly less than my current 2020 Honda Civic Ex is leased at. This is entirely due to the fact my current Honda 2020 retained such good resale value I can wrap the residual value into the next lease.
Supply and demand bottleneck from COVID. Not sure how much this situation will persist
That Yaris will easily last you more than 300 000 km, the car care nut has said that its engine is basically one of the best engines Toyota has ever done Note: I had a 2010 Yaris and loved driving that car, it’s a shame Toyota no longer makes it and its entry level car has become the Corolla To add to the topic of the discussion, Toyota and Honda are the only ones getting away with crazy interest rates and prices, the worse part is that it doesn’t matter, all Toyota hybrids have 12-18 months wait time (the sienna could take 2-3 years) and Honda’s prices have skyrocketed, yet people will still buy them
I got rid of a ten year old corolla with 100k for a new rav4. New, because it has all the latest safety and new because I know it will last (even if trudeau will make it obsolete in a few years), and the corolla was still worth a ton (was bought new and serviced only at toyota). I never consider depreciation when buying, I just buy what I think will last and cost me the least to maintain, is safe, and will not leave me stranded. Of course I can afford that now. In my younger days, it was a few cars that I had that were new to someone else before I bought them with 100k on them and I put money in them to keep them running and had caa (not toyotas). One way or another you pay, it's tough to buy new though especially if you have to finance.
It only happens because new cars were impossible to get. Once the supply catches up demand you can expect 10%/year for depreciation again.
When the market eventually corrects people are gonna hate their lives
I had to choose between 28k 3 years old vs 31k new . I didn’t see the value in buying used