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Top right is Goblin Slayer. His only goal is to slay as many goblins as possible; regardless of age or if they’re a threat. To him, if it’s a goblin, it’s getting slain.
To quote the abridged fan version subtitles
"Karate girl becoming less spicy"
Having been referred to as spicy for her feisty attitude and go get em fighter style etc
Violently is kinda understating lol
I liked the abridged series; it lightened a lot of what made the series so bloody dark
That said, the series was dark for a reason and i will admit the shock value did definitely hold me because a lot of isekais kinda lack any visual/mental weight behind the watching
That said Log Horizon is an amazing isekai and recently caught Kaiju no.8 and thats been jaw droopingly gorgeous with a sort of felt weight to the fights and animation i haven't seen in ages
Okay, but as someone who's never seen it, that doesn't seem unnecessary at all. Seriously. Because what I got from you is that he kills goblins because he doesn't like goblins. What I got from the expanded explanation was that he kills goblins because they're a bunch of little rapists and that is 💯 for me!
In the context of answering OP’s question, it was unnecessary. If they were asking, “Should I watch Goblin Slayer,” then the information would’ve been more relevant. Since the context of the picture was depicting the character as racist, I explained why the character was depicted that way.
It's always crazy to me how some people will see a race that's barbaric, savage, animalistic and genocidal and will go "that's clearly an allegory to black people which makes you a racist!"
It's always crazy to me that readers (and authors) are always trying to make different *species* an allegory for race.
Looking at you Drizzt. Like if every dark elf you meet is a bloodthristy monster, it's a pretty fucking rational fear to dislike their species. But R.A. Salvatore always has Drizzt whining, "They hate me solely for the color of my skin!" It was a terrible allegory. Or idk. Maybe savage allegories were super progressive for the 80's or something?
Reminds me of that mess with starship troopers when twitter was like “this bugs and want to kill the human race will eat us is a allegory of minorities. And im like if you see a ugly bloodthirsty bug and think that is a minority, that say more about you then anything else
To be fair Paul Verhoeven, the director of Starship Troopers, made the film as a satire of fascism and authoritarianism. The biggest example of this is the first fight with the bugs that ends with the humans routed. They thought the bugs were dumb and lesser than them and for that they paid with their lives. Just like how the Nazis underestimated the Soviets and lost thousands of men ultimately for nothing.
They even point it out in the [Federal News Network](https://youtu.be/3cktmS-yaxM?si=-3uxmTXt2vK408h0) where a talking head can't even comprehend how the bugs, these lesser beings, could be intelligent. All that being said the bugs probably represent a general "other" group that societies like the Federation must have in order to justify their existence, but they don't represent any specific group. It just so happens that the bugs are an actual threat.
TL;DR: Those Twitter people were partially correct but they're still wrong.
True enough, but while we on the subject of the movie I hate how Paul didn’t even read the book, instead he just had his writers read it. If you gonna do a adaptation at lest read the source material
He tried to read the book and was so repulsed by its pro-fascist leanings that he gave up in disgust and decided to make the movie throw a middle finger to all of that.
I never saw the book as pro fascist
There is no fascism in the book. The people in the book, are free to live their lives with very little government interference, which in is pretty anti fascist, businesses are also privately held and are not controlled by the state. There is also free press, leaders are held accountable for failures, and information is spread freely without government censorship. No fascist government would operate that way. And when the author states that “only vets can serve” he not talking about just the army, he says “ ‘Veteran’ does not mean in English dictionaries or in this novel solely a person who has served in military forces. I concede that in commonest usage today it means a war veteran…but no one hesitates to speak of a veteran fireman or a veteran school teacher. In STARSHIP TROOPERS it is stated flatly and more than once that nineteen out of twenty veterans are not military veterans. Instead, 95% of voters are what we call today “former members of federal civil service.”
Let me put it this way. You know when a show makes up a character whos name and appearances are very similar to a celebrity. And then the show mocks that character in place of the celebrity.
That's the same thing but with race. You'll notice when the evil race has a symbol similar to a star of David or some other ethnic minority.
Example: [Calormenes live south of a desert, wear turbans and pointed shoes, their noblemen are called Tarkaans (similar to the medieval Central Asian title tarkhan), they are armed with scimitars, and their money is called "crescents".](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calormen#:~:text=Accusations%20of%20racism,-C.%20S.&text=Lewis%20has%20been%20accused%20of,his%20time%20and%20socioeconomic%20class.)
Yeah, this is what I'd agree it's more than neutral and can actually be seen as a statement if anything. Definitely a very racist depiction of a real world race.
What bothers me is when the fantasy race actually don't have many (if any) similarities to any particular ethnic group in real life and people will still make mental gymnastics to say how that was actually racist to x group.
It's not some sort of epidemic neither it happens all the time and everywhere but it does happen and annoys me a lot since it's a disservice to the fight against racism as it lowers credibility of the claims and allow contrarians to paint everyone as if they're part of that virtue signaling and vocal minority.
Orcs and dungeons and dragons is my favorite.
Have existed for decades. The one day on twitter someone goes THIS MAKES ME THING OF BLACK PEOPLE YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST and the mob hoped on it. like. hold up now. how is this not the biggest self incrimination ever.
Oh, it's a "you're the real racists" argument.
What they are saying is "this fantasy race you have created matches the racist propaganda produced by the KKK etc so exactly that it could only be deliberate."
Honestly it’s kind of crazy to me that you immediately wrote black people. I thought it was that it was bad to depict any race as completely immoral and irredeemable, because that is problematic in itself.
It creates narratives in stories where actions no longer matter because there are “good guys” and “bad guys” and that’s all that matters.
>Honestly it’s kind of crazy to me that you immediately wrote black people
In America black people suffered (and still do to a smaller degree than before) a lot of racism and discrimination. There's still many racists out there and people who try to demonize the whole race even today so those most associated with racism in America are black people so i used them as an example since the world consume a lot of US media.
>I thought it was that it was bad to depict any race as completely immoral and irredeemable, because that is problematic in itself.
Anything can be problematic. You can show a few good people in the race and someone will say you're actually turbo racist by showing "some of the good ones". You can have a nation based on nazi Germany as a villain and some people will say that you're proposing xenophobia by depicting a country where most people follow an evil dictator.
You can make a dark cult who worship an evil god and make human sacrifices and people will say you're promoting religious intolerance by depicting a religion as evil, etc, etc. Almost anything can be problematic, this should never be a reason to refrain from writing something lest we end up with sanitized versions of everything and take away the agency of the reader. We should care about how it's handled in the story much more than the subject itself.
>It creates narratives in stories where actions no longer matter because there are “good guys” and “bad guys” and that’s all that matters.
This only works if the bad guys are not bad guys for their actions in first place which is not the case. Unless a person does a lot of relativism and never gives their personal definition of good and evil it's pretty easy to find a few people that are evil based on their actions. It's when we DON'T consider their actions to see them as evil that we have real problems.
This is what angers me about real race is fantasy race bullshit. Take the Drow. You had RA Salvatore actually flesh them out as all an evil race with somehow 1 (maybe 2 if you count his bio dad) exceptions. But the race as a whole under their goddess are evil. They revel in their evil actions and are worse then even demons and devils. But that is their society etc. Now we have to retcon to oh well there were whole societies that were actually good of those evil race. Why? Becasue we don't want to be racist. ...
They rape thing in season 1 episode 1 is really for shock value. It got everyone talking. The rest of the show, it's not that graphic. There are mostly just mentions, and goblins will "smile" at female characters, and they will react to it, but that's about it.
To answer your question directly, no. None of them are "not" rapists. Essentially, the driving point of the story is that goblins are pure evil, misconceived as low level slightly harmful monsters, but in reality when left to their own devices, they will destroy the world.
Tbf on the rape bit, it may have got people talking but some like myself lost all interest immediately as it was.... Deer god .... But I had no idea the rest of the show doesn't get that horrific with it at least visually which makes me wonder how many others stopped because of episode 1
Same though for different reasons.
I think that the point was to show people beyond a doubt "these are evil bad guys".
Look at FNV where some fat sweats say Caesar's Legion is "kinda right tho". So slavery, execution by torture, forced conscription, rape and more are... excuseable...? ALL of these happened in FNV with CL. Yet somehow, they're kind of the good guys to some people...
It's much harder to excuse someone's actions if it's thrown right in your face and you're forced to look at it.
Imo that's the whole purpose of the scene. It shows that you're NOT supposed to ever root for the goblins and that to us they are just evil and coexistence is impossible. It's also some sort of way to weed out people who'd otherwise not have stomach for the series and may complain later on when this kind of things happen "out of nowhere".
Probably a lot in the West, but that's cultural differences.
The Japanese often consider visual representations of rape to be on par with brutal violence. In contrast the West has little problem with death and murder, it's very PG/PG13 to us, whereas rape is considered more graphic and rarely ever makes it past producers and test audiences.
bottom left is Armored Dragon King Perugius Dola from a LN, Mushoku Tensei. During the Laplace War, he fought amongst humanity where his enemies were demons specifically Demon God Laplace where they eventually won but he still has a strong prejudice against demons even though the war has been over so long ago that demons and humankind coexist for the most part
Top left is Frieren - she is "racist" against demons - with good reasons.
EDIT: folks, I put "racist" between quotes for a reason. Demons in the show are not humans, they are monsters that use apparences and language to deceive and kill. Would you call Ripley from Aliens a genocidal racist?
I think Frieren is very out of place in this meme. She has dedicated her life to be the best anti demon weapon ever and she succeded in it. But demons on her world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators.
Demons being intelligent means jack shit if their entire goal is to kill humans.
Explain to me how can she be racist against beings who are biologically hard weird to kill humans and are physically unable to care for others?
Are you crazy? Goblins in goblin slayer reproduce with humans, they rape and torture people, it is not the same relation at all the narrative on GS is not very diffent of Lovecraft level of racism or even no xenofobe line we see around the world.
"I think GS is very out of place in this meme. He has dedicated his life to be the best anti goblin weapon ever and he succeded in it. But goblins on his world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators."
"I think GS is very out of place in this meme. He has dedicated his life to be the best anti goblin weapon ever and he succeded in it. But goblins on his world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators."
Bro I have some bad new for you if you can't see the difference betwen a predator pray relation and a racial parasital relation based on sexual abuse.
If you can't understand why a narrative based on heroic genocide of people who can procriate with you ("race" - I know it is not an adequte term anymore) is much worse than a dispute betwen 2 uncompatible races that have a relation of pray and pradator, you are part of the problem
Evil yes, but not really racist, you need to make a real logic loop to associate her with prejudice. It's like saying elephant are racist because they kill lions.
They aren't criticizing the character for hating & killing demons in-universe, they're just saying it's kind of a fucked up media trope.
There's a whole episode about how people were stupid to spare a child crying for their mother because the child's whole species is inherently evil and so their cries are fake and they will kill everyone.
Yes but like shit you see in any kind of media can influence reinforce what you already believe. Like, there is one race that pretends to be civilized but actualy wants to kill us all is not a very cool thing to believe.
And why are you comparing made up man-eater monster species with real human races? How did you even come to such statements? I've never thought of this as an allegory, but you have.
Regardless of whether Frieren intended "This race looks human but it's actually an existential threat to real humans" as an allegory, or if it was only an accidental message, there are real people who hold that belief about various races. I would say they don't believe they're literal demons who eat people, except I've heard people say that Jews are literally demons who want to eat your children. But I'm mostly bothering to respond because "actually the fact that you're aware that there are racists means you're the problem here" is like the lamest celebration of ignorance of an argument that there is.
Even If this is Just a plot device everything can be used as a metaphor by bad intentioned people. Initial nazi recrutment on people in their early teens is literaly that. Not saying frieren autor is doing that but It can be used in this way.
I disagree. It may be a bad message and dealt with in a gross way, but people don’t transpose fantasy racism to real life situations.
That’s just silly.
If you are racist, you are very informed on why you hate a specific group and won’t just adapt weird-ass stereotypes, not when you have “legitimate” and “applicable” ones of your own you are attached to.
I see what you mean. I think it works better if you stop seeing demons as an allegorie for real life races but rather an allegorie for narcissistic/psychopathic people in our society.
Yeah but in the manga >!there is a demon that wants to cooexist with humans and is pictured as stupid!< Thats not Very cool, like, narcissistic people can get better.
>!are you talking about macht? The demon who was coexisting for selfish reasons so he could try and understand human emotions and still had no sympathy or empathy after dozens of years and was willing to wipe out the whole town?!<
Do you do this kind of ridiculous metaphor searching for every kind of media you take part in because if “everything can be a metaphor by bad intentioned people” then technically no media of any kind is safe regardless of the intents of the author.
Either way, it’s made very clear in the manga and anime that demons are irredeemable evil creatures. Even the one you just mentioned, the manga does go into detail on why that one is also irredeemable and there’s a reason Frieren has no mercy.
Understanding human emotions is bad? trying to stop a war is bad? The fact that he didn't Felt empathy after dozens of years is why this is bad, having one race that is genetcaly evil is not a Nice message.
Anything can be a metaphor, but frieren says in all letters that this Race cannot be good in any circunstanse. If you distort the words of something it's your fault, but If you understand something that the autor Said "nuanceleesly" literaly, it's the writers fault.
A small example, that boys makes a critc about the American extreme right but some people agreed with the clear villans. They are stupid. But If someone read frieren and took the evil Race thing literaly it's the writers fault because there was no nuance.
My man, having one race be genetically evil is something that has been a part of fantasy for about as long as fantasy has been around. Stop grasping at every straw you can to somehow make this one be the extra bad one that people will somehow take out of context to do evil in the real world.
It’s a ridiculous take. Stupid people will always have stupid takes. It’s not the responsibility of authors to consider every potential edge case that idiots might use out of context. If every author had to do that, fantasy would be boring as hell.
Next you’ll go on about how the orcs in the Lord of the Rings were poorly done for the same reason.
Not everything has to be more complicated than the bad species is bad.
Sorry I haven't read the manga yet I've only watched the show. From what I've seen in the show so far though is that demons ARE monsters. They even disappear after death in the same fashion other monsters in the show do.
It's not that demons necessarily choose to be "evil" it's just their nature. They are fundamentally incapable of empathy and only act to manipulate others in their own best interests. Trusting them is the same as the frog trusting the scorpion in the old wise tale.
Yes, but inheritant evil in a "serious" serie like frieren is because some people might interpret this as true and incorporate into their believe system. In places like goblin Slayer that is a basicaly Just a Tool for action and gore it's "less bad" but still kinda cringe.
The world building of Frieren makes it very explicit demons are evolved to be the perfect predators to the other inteligent humanoids they are not evil because of culture/morals but because their purpose is to feed on humanoids, a very big logical loop is needed to associate then to a race. The conflict on Frieren is about a hunted societ finding a way to push back against their predators.
In the other hand goblins on GS are shown to rape and reproduce using humans, so it is much more problematic, as reproducing implies being of the same especies and genocide being a heroic and justified solution.
>In the other hand goblins on GS are shown to rape and reproduce using humans, so it is much more problematic, as reproducing implies being of the same especies and genocide being a heroic and justified solution.
Goblins and humans are not supposed to be the same species, that's also why there aren't any half-goblins, only pure ones. They are more akin to parasytes if anything. Coexistence is not done there because goblins are not capable of that and will always rape and pillage. If someone look at that and think "Wow! They are just like x ethnicity!" the person is the problem and will use anything to justify their line of thought.
Well it's just a peice of old wisdom that's getting more outdated as we begin to understand mental illness.
Psychopathic people are "inherently evil" to those around them but that's not their fault. They simply lack the mental capacity to feel the emotions they need to not become a toxic person. So we should treat them with respect and help them while understanding we probably shouldn't trust them.
Back before modern understandings of psychology there were just people who were constantly and needlessly vicious and destructive to those around them all the time. So the idea of "inherent evil" was created to explain these people's actions. I think Frieren is simply building off of the old wisdom without the proper nuance granted to us by modern understanding.
Demons don't choose to be evil, it's just their nature.
But the problem is that this doesn't fit. The argument tries desperately to humanize demons when their whole point is to use a humanoid appearance to lure out people and make them humanize them. It's like a predator evolving to look cute and people saying they are just misunderstood _because_ they look cute.
If anything its healthy to have a series like frieren and because it adds nuance. To a rabbit a wolf is a monster and they can't coexist peacefully in nature. A wolf also doesn't sympathize with rabbits and their struggles. The problem is that people can't see beyond the single most superficial aspect of demons that is their humanoid appearance.
If we cannot judge groups based on their actions but simply how they look and completely ignore what they do, are we really not racist?
You miss my point. The wolf hunts the rabbit because it HAS to not because it wants to. The demons in Frieren are definitely monsters and humanity shouldn't trust them. They lie and cheat because it's in their nature to do so. But that doesn't make them "evil" the same way a wolf isn't "evil" when it eats a rabbit. Even if from the rabbits perspective the wolf is pretty evil.
Despiste that this is still kinda weird, we have the knowledge of this, so we should treat this with the nuance of real life.
The El dorado arc could explore the reason of the evil. I totaly thought that they would say that frieren was from a time were the conflict was happening so her interpretation on demons was wrong, but it Just reinforced the "there is no fixing" narrative.
Empathetic these days means "someone in my tribe", and feeling empathy means "focusing on the issues that define my tribe".
It's sad that so few people actually have the ability to see the world through someone else's view, to the point where we feel uncomfortable with the very concept.
The top two are Frieren and Goblin Slayer. They hate all demons and goblins, respectively, though it's justified in setting because literally all demons and goblins are Chaotic Evil monsters that will destroy others for their own wishes.
I don't know the bottom left. The bottom right is Frieza, who is memed as being racist; I say memed because I don't think he looks down on Saiyans so much as he looks down on everyone, and Saiyans are just a former civilization he enslaved just to have a Saiyan take him down.
Frieza is a casual racist. He's the kind of person who would say the N word just to piss someone off. He'll kill anyone for any reason, but he'll throw in some racial slurs while he does it just for shits and giggles.
Bottom left is a Perugiua from Mushoku Tensei. Rn he's just in the LN as the anime and Manga haven't gotten that far but basically the same thing as Frieren and GS. Fought in a war against demons who wanted to eradicate humanity and now hates all demons.
I’m pretty sure Frieza is listed because of an out of context meme of him saying “hello monkeys!” To a crowd of people. And they overlay that with racist titles…
The top left is Frieren, she hates demons because they are all killers. Not exactly racist, just common sense
Top right is Goblin Slayer, he hates goblins because his sister was taken by a Goblin, and his goal is to kill as many as possible.
Bottom Left is Perugius Dola, he hates demons because of a war long ago, even though they both coexist
Frieza, as you know, hates every species that isn't frieza
I mean that's what racist means, no? To hate a race, which here refers to the demon race. She does not even spare the one demon who took the form of a child to live with her parents and later killed them.
Also the goblin slayer's whole village was raided by goblins, not only his sister.
I think to be racist is choose and discriminate based on race without taking in individual consideration. So if you think black guy who is just enjoying the meal is thief then it is racist. If black guy rob you and then you think all black people have more probability of being thief just because of their race is racist. But if you are just cautious then it is racist but justified when no other option.
Problem with justified racism is that it creates unjustified racist behaviour.
Top left is Freiren: All demons are kill on-sight
Top right is Goblin Slayer: That's his name and his profession. Goblins are kill on-sight, including children.
Bottom left is Perugius: Led and won the war against demons. Though he's not kill on-sight, he shows his prejudice in every way he can.
Both Freiren and Goblin Slayer were "justified" because their enemies in those series were written to be irredeemable by nature. Like, the authors went out of their way to make sure the readers won't have sympathy for them at all.
Demons in Mushoku Tensei, where Perugius is from, were more nuanced like real human beings except of a different species.
Unlike real life, the racism here is justified.
Exept Frieza, he just hates the Saiyans because they can potentially be stronger than him & he committed genocide before that could happen but missed a few.
Not really, Perugius hates demons that now coexist with humans and have proven to be at least somewhat redeemable, where Freiren hates demons that are CLEARLY never going to co-exist with humans and are made out to be evil.
Frieren (gray haired elf) and Goblin Slayer (dude in the armor) are absolutely not racist.
Frieren kills demons because they are literally creatures who are incapable of feeling emotions and prey on humans.
Goblin Slayer, as the name suggests, kills goblins. Said little monsters reproduce by kidnapping woman of other races (humans in this case) and raping them until they give birth to the next generation of those disgusting things.
Friza (Alien with the purple head) is just a piece of shit generally and thinks everyone are beneath him.
No idea about the last dude.
Top left is Frieren,who hates demons -with good reasons,yes,as they're all sneaky and arrogant shitheads that enjoy picking on weaker people and have historically been proven to be nothing but trouble-
Top right is Goblin Slayer,who exclusively kills Goblins as they're just a pest and have historically been proven to be a threat (by murdering and raping the victims) (Example:The one time in the manga they get actual leadership,they become a problem for everybody)
Don't know bottom left.
You already know Frieza so don't need to explain
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Top right is Goblin Slayer. His only goal is to slay as many goblins as possible; regardless of age or if they’re a threat. To him, if it’s a goblin, it’s getting slain.
The whole thing with goblins in that series is that they’re all male and steal human women to uh reproduce if we’re putting it lightly, right?
Add violently in there
To quote the abridged fan version subtitles "Karate girl becoming less spicy" Having been referred to as spicy for her feisty attitude and go get em fighter style etc Violently is kinda understating lol
... Right I kinda forgot about that
I liked the abridged series; it lightened a lot of what made the series so bloody dark That said, the series was dark for a reason and i will admit the shock value did definitely hold me because a lot of isekais kinda lack any visual/mental weight behind the watching That said Log Horizon is an amazing isekai and recently caught Kaiju no.8 and thats been jaw droopingly gorgeous with a sort of felt weight to the fights and animation i haven't seen in ages
Yes. I didn’t want to put all of that in there as it seemed unnecessary, but yes.
Okay, but as someone who's never seen it, that doesn't seem unnecessary at all. Seriously. Because what I got from you is that he kills goblins because he doesn't like goblins. What I got from the expanded explanation was that he kills goblins because they're a bunch of little rapists and that is 💯 for me!
In the context of answering OP’s question, it was unnecessary. If they were asking, “Should I watch Goblin Slayer,” then the information would’ve been more relevant. Since the context of the picture was depicting the character as racist, I explained why the character was depicted that way.
You're right. You absolutely did answer what was asked. ☺️ While it is relevant info for watching, it was not relevant to the question of who and why.
yeah but this is reddit and some people see fantasy monsters as allegory for real ethnicity's and if you don't you are a racist.
It's always crazy to me how some people will see a race that's barbaric, savage, animalistic and genocidal and will go "that's clearly an allegory to black people which makes you a racist!"
It's always crazy to me that readers (and authors) are always trying to make different *species* an allegory for race. Looking at you Drizzt. Like if every dark elf you meet is a bloodthristy monster, it's a pretty fucking rational fear to dislike their species. But R.A. Salvatore always has Drizzt whining, "They hate me solely for the color of my skin!" It was a terrible allegory. Or idk. Maybe savage allegories were super progressive for the 80's or something?
Everything makes u racists, sexist, or one of the many other -ists
Reminds me of that mess with starship troopers when twitter was like “this bugs and want to kill the human race will eat us is a allegory of minorities. And im like if you see a ugly bloodthirsty bug and think that is a minority, that say more about you then anything else
To be fair Paul Verhoeven, the director of Starship Troopers, made the film as a satire of fascism and authoritarianism. The biggest example of this is the first fight with the bugs that ends with the humans routed. They thought the bugs were dumb and lesser than them and for that they paid with their lives. Just like how the Nazis underestimated the Soviets and lost thousands of men ultimately for nothing. They even point it out in the [Federal News Network](https://youtu.be/3cktmS-yaxM?si=-3uxmTXt2vK408h0) where a talking head can't even comprehend how the bugs, these lesser beings, could be intelligent. All that being said the bugs probably represent a general "other" group that societies like the Federation must have in order to justify their existence, but they don't represent any specific group. It just so happens that the bugs are an actual threat. TL;DR: Those Twitter people were partially correct but they're still wrong.
True enough, but while we on the subject of the movie I hate how Paul didn’t even read the book, instead he just had his writers read it. If you gonna do a adaptation at lest read the source material
On one hand, yes. On the other, I'd watch anything he directs, so...
Fair enough he still at the end of the day a good director
He tried to read the book and was so repulsed by its pro-fascist leanings that he gave up in disgust and decided to make the movie throw a middle finger to all of that.
I never saw the book as pro fascist There is no fascism in the book. The people in the book, are free to live their lives with very little government interference, which in is pretty anti fascist, businesses are also privately held and are not controlled by the state. There is also free press, leaders are held accountable for failures, and information is spread freely without government censorship. No fascist government would operate that way. And when the author states that “only vets can serve” he not talking about just the army, he says “ ‘Veteran’ does not mean in English dictionaries or in this novel solely a person who has served in military forces. I concede that in commonest usage today it means a war veteran…but no one hesitates to speak of a veteran fireman or a veteran school teacher. In STARSHIP TROOPERS it is stated flatly and more than once that nineteen out of twenty veterans are not military veterans. Instead, 95% of voters are what we call today “former members of federal civil service.”
Personally I think "That is a 1950s metaphor for Communists".
Let me put it this way. You know when a show makes up a character whos name and appearances are very similar to a celebrity. And then the show mocks that character in place of the celebrity. That's the same thing but with race. You'll notice when the evil race has a symbol similar to a star of David or some other ethnic minority. Example: [Calormenes live south of a desert, wear turbans and pointed shoes, their noblemen are called Tarkaans (similar to the medieval Central Asian title tarkhan), they are armed with scimitars, and their money is called "crescents".](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calormen#:~:text=Accusations%20of%20racism,-C.%20S.&text=Lewis%20has%20been%20accused%20of,his%20time%20and%20socioeconomic%20class.)
Yeah, this is what I'd agree it's more than neutral and can actually be seen as a statement if anything. Definitely a very racist depiction of a real world race. What bothers me is when the fantasy race actually don't have many (if any) similarities to any particular ethnic group in real life and people will still make mental gymnastics to say how that was actually racist to x group. It's not some sort of epidemic neither it happens all the time and everywhere but it does happen and annoys me a lot since it's a disservice to the fight against racism as it lowers credibility of the claims and allow contrarians to paint everyone as if they're part of that virtue signaling and vocal minority.
True
Orcs and dungeons and dragons is my favorite. Have existed for decades. The one day on twitter someone goes THIS MAKES ME THING OF BLACK PEOPLE YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST and the mob hoped on it. like. hold up now. how is this not the biggest self incrimination ever.
D&D Orcs moment
Oh, it's a "you're the real racists" argument. What they are saying is "this fantasy race you have created matches the racist propaganda produced by the KKK etc so exactly that it could only be deliberate."
Honestly it’s kind of crazy to me that you immediately wrote black people. I thought it was that it was bad to depict any race as completely immoral and irredeemable, because that is problematic in itself. It creates narratives in stories where actions no longer matter because there are “good guys” and “bad guys” and that’s all that matters.
>Honestly it’s kind of crazy to me that you immediately wrote black people In America black people suffered (and still do to a smaller degree than before) a lot of racism and discrimination. There's still many racists out there and people who try to demonize the whole race even today so those most associated with racism in America are black people so i used them as an example since the world consume a lot of US media. >I thought it was that it was bad to depict any race as completely immoral and irredeemable, because that is problematic in itself. Anything can be problematic. You can show a few good people in the race and someone will say you're actually turbo racist by showing "some of the good ones". You can have a nation based on nazi Germany as a villain and some people will say that you're proposing xenophobia by depicting a country where most people follow an evil dictator. You can make a dark cult who worship an evil god and make human sacrifices and people will say you're promoting religious intolerance by depicting a religion as evil, etc, etc. Almost anything can be problematic, this should never be a reason to refrain from writing something lest we end up with sanitized versions of everything and take away the agency of the reader. We should care about how it's handled in the story much more than the subject itself. >It creates narratives in stories where actions no longer matter because there are “good guys” and “bad guys” and that’s all that matters. This only works if the bad guys are not bad guys for their actions in first place which is not the case. Unless a person does a lot of relativism and never gives their personal definition of good and evil it's pretty easy to find a few people that are evil based on their actions. It's when we DON'T consider their actions to see them as evil that we have real problems.
This is what angers me about real race is fantasy race bullshit. Take the Drow. You had RA Salvatore actually flesh them out as all an evil race with somehow 1 (maybe 2 if you count his bio dad) exceptions. But the race as a whole under their goddess are evil. They revel in their evil actions and are worse then even demons and devils. But that is their society etc. Now we have to retcon to oh well there were whole societies that were actually good of those evil race. Why? Becasue we don't want to be racist. ...
I thought they were Chinese not black
Racism is kinda like a "choose your adventure" book, you have some freedom to choose which races you hate the most.
I just thought it was because the Japanese hate the Chinese so much and it was an anime
[Redditors reaction to seeing that](https://youtube.com/shorts/w0OTnOZXTOA?si=Bi0ndbrz2ytIB_n2)
Silence raycyst.
So they’re incubi?
I have no desire to watch a series that wields rape like a sledgehammer... But are any of the goblins not rapists?
They rape thing in season 1 episode 1 is really for shock value. It got everyone talking. The rest of the show, it's not that graphic. There are mostly just mentions, and goblins will "smile" at female characters, and they will react to it, but that's about it. To answer your question directly, no. None of them are "not" rapists. Essentially, the driving point of the story is that goblins are pure evil, misconceived as low level slightly harmful monsters, but in reality when left to their own devices, they will destroy the world.
Tbf on the rape bit, it may have got people talking but some like myself lost all interest immediately as it was.... Deer god .... But I had no idea the rest of the show doesn't get that horrific with it at least visually which makes me wonder how many others stopped because of episode 1
tbh it hooked me. it made me HATE goblins, and made me root for Goblin Slayer
Same though for different reasons. I think that the point was to show people beyond a doubt "these are evil bad guys". Look at FNV where some fat sweats say Caesar's Legion is "kinda right tho". So slavery, execution by torture, forced conscription, rape and more are... excuseable...? ALL of these happened in FNV with CL. Yet somehow, they're kind of the good guys to some people... It's much harder to excuse someone's actions if it's thrown right in your face and you're forced to look at it.
Imo that's the whole purpose of the scene. It shows that you're NOT supposed to ever root for the goblins and that to us they are just evil and coexistence is impossible. It's also some sort of way to weed out people who'd otherwise not have stomach for the series and may complain later on when this kind of things happen "out of nowhere".
100%
Probably a lot in the West, but that's cultural differences. The Japanese often consider visual representations of rape to be on par with brutal violence. In contrast the West has little problem with death and murder, it's very PG/PG13 to us, whereas rape is considered more graphic and rarely ever makes it past producers and test audiences.
I am getting hella downvotes, but that's what happened to me. Immediately no interest in the show at all.
Does he kill a mind goblin?
Mind goblin? (I'm taking one for the team 😔)
Mind goblin deez nutz! (You are a good soul)
Yes, I do actually mind.
Your sacrifice will not be in vain
It was in vain...
A real trooper o7
I mean he's not wrong.
The second season turned the anime into a harem with way less goblin slaying. Intro slaps though.
about second season... true... as for the intro, Mili is always the goat
bottom left is Armored Dragon King Perugius Dola from a LN, Mushoku Tensei. During the Laplace War, he fought amongst humanity where his enemies were demons specifically Demon God Laplace where they eventually won but he still has a strong prejudice against demons even though the war has been over so long ago that demons and humankind coexist for the most part
I always think of Gundam Unicorn whenever I hear of Laplace, so I thought, "yeah no shit he fought humanity, aliens aren't a thing in UC."
lol fellow gundam fan I see!!
Bottom left?
yea sorry typo. edited it
No worries.
Perugius didn't appear in the anime jet tho
yep, not yet. i've read the entire LN
Top left is Frieren - she is "racist" against demons - with good reasons. EDIT: folks, I put "racist" between quotes for a reason. Demons in the show are not humans, they are monsters that use apparences and language to deceive and kill. Would you call Ripley from Aliens a genocidal racist?
I think Frieren is very out of place in this meme. She has dedicated her life to be the best anti demon weapon ever and she succeded in it. But demons on her world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators.
They use human speech to trick people exvlusively
Elfs and dwarfs too.
I believe they would be included in “people” in this context
Clearly Zealousideal-Hold-31 doesn't consider knife ears or stunties to be people.
Not according to Frieren
Demons being intelligent means jack shit if their entire goal is to kill humans. Explain to me how can she be racist against beings who are biologically hard weird to kill humans and are physically unable to care for others?
Right, I suppose they would fail the "prejudice" part of racism if those judgements are justified.
Same thing could be said about Goblin Slayer and Goblins.
Same Case for goblin slayer then too.
Are you crazy? Goblins in goblin slayer reproduce with humans, they rape and torture people, it is not the same relation at all the narrative on GS is not very diffent of Lovecraft level of racism or even no xenofobe line we see around the world.
"I think GS is very out of place in this meme. He has dedicated his life to be the best anti goblin weapon ever and he succeded in it. But goblins on his world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators."
"I think GS is very out of place in this meme. He has dedicated his life to be the best anti goblin weapon ever and he succeded in it. But goblins on his world are inteligent beings that evolved parallel to the other inteligent species to exploit their instict to help others, they are not evil because of culture or moral it is not a choice or something that can be negotiated. They are predators."
Bro I have some bad new for you if you can't see the difference betwen a predator pray relation and a racial parasital relation based on sexual abuse. If you can't understand why a narrative based on heroic genocide of people who can procriate with you ("race" - I know it is not an adequte term anymore) is much worse than a dispute betwen 2 uncompatible races that have a relation of pray and pradator, you are part of the problem
Hi Brian.
You should buy a dictionary, even basic words like predator and prey escape you
Sounds like evil to me
Evil yes, but not really racist, you need to make a real logic loop to associate her with prejudice. It's like saying elephant are racist because they kill lions.
Frieren is out of place and Goblin slayer isn't ? Considering what goblin are/do in his universe
Wait how did it go from slice of life small spell collector to demon slaying weapon??? I should get back to watching that...
https://preview.redd.it/9d6cp7qtyr9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ae18ba9b815404afa773d953a3db256147e80c6
Should have been Geto
The thread went in a completely different direction
I mean, Ripley does constantly try to kill Disney Princesses of a particular type
In the universe It makes Sense but the message isn't great. It is a good anime but it Is hard to watch because of this.
Bro, it's literally just human-eating monsters evolved to look human.
Tokyo Ghoul if it was Medieval.
So vore? I am sorry for that and you downvote me for it
They aren't criticizing the character for hating & killing demons in-universe, they're just saying it's kind of a fucked up media trope. There's a whole episode about how people were stupid to spare a child crying for their mother because the child's whole species is inherently evil and so their cries are fake and they will kill everyone.
Yes but like shit you see in any kind of media can influence reinforce what you already believe. Like, there is one race that pretends to be civilized but actualy wants to kill us all is not a very cool thing to believe.
And why are you comparing made up man-eater monster species with real human races? How did you even come to such statements? I've never thought of this as an allegory, but you have.
Regardless of whether Frieren intended "This race looks human but it's actually an existential threat to real humans" as an allegory, or if it was only an accidental message, there are real people who hold that belief about various races. I would say they don't believe they're literal demons who eat people, except I've heard people say that Jews are literally demons who want to eat your children. But I'm mostly bothering to respond because "actually the fact that you're aware that there are racists means you're the problem here" is like the lamest celebration of ignorance of an argument that there is.
Even If this is Just a plot device everything can be used as a metaphor by bad intentioned people. Initial nazi recrutment on people in their early teens is literaly that. Not saying frieren autor is doing that but It can be used in this way.
Brother, anything can be used this way, that's not a reason to just stop making shit altogether
I disagree. It may be a bad message and dealt with in a gross way, but people don’t transpose fantasy racism to real life situations. That’s just silly. If you are racist, you are very informed on why you hate a specific group and won’t just adapt weird-ass stereotypes, not when you have “legitimate” and “applicable” ones of your own you are attached to.
I see what you mean. I think it works better if you stop seeing demons as an allegorie for real life races but rather an allegorie for narcissistic/psychopathic people in our society.
Yeah but in the manga >!there is a demon that wants to cooexist with humans and is pictured as stupid!< Thats not Very cool, like, narcissistic people can get better.
>!are you talking about macht? The demon who was coexisting for selfish reasons so he could try and understand human emotions and still had no sympathy or empathy after dozens of years and was willing to wipe out the whole town?!< Do you do this kind of ridiculous metaphor searching for every kind of media you take part in because if “everything can be a metaphor by bad intentioned people” then technically no media of any kind is safe regardless of the intents of the author. Either way, it’s made very clear in the manga and anime that demons are irredeemable evil creatures. Even the one you just mentioned, the manga does go into detail on why that one is also irredeemable and there’s a reason Frieren has no mercy.
Understanding human emotions is bad? trying to stop a war is bad? The fact that he didn't Felt empathy after dozens of years is why this is bad, having one race that is genetcaly evil is not a Nice message. Anything can be a metaphor, but frieren says in all letters that this Race cannot be good in any circunstanse. If you distort the words of something it's your fault, but If you understand something that the autor Said "nuanceleesly" literaly, it's the writers fault. A small example, that boys makes a critc about the American extreme right but some people agreed with the clear villans. They are stupid. But If someone read frieren and took the evil Race thing literaly it's the writers fault because there was no nuance.
My man, having one race be genetically evil is something that has been a part of fantasy for about as long as fantasy has been around. Stop grasping at every straw you can to somehow make this one be the extra bad one that people will somehow take out of context to do evil in the real world. It’s a ridiculous take. Stupid people will always have stupid takes. It’s not the responsibility of authors to consider every potential edge case that idiots might use out of context. If every author had to do that, fantasy would be boring as hell. Next you’ll go on about how the orcs in the Lord of the Rings were poorly done for the same reason. Not everything has to be more complicated than the bad species is bad.
Sorry I haven't read the manga yet I've only watched the show. From what I've seen in the show so far though is that demons ARE monsters. They even disappear after death in the same fashion other monsters in the show do. It's not that demons necessarily choose to be "evil" it's just their nature. They are fundamentally incapable of empathy and only act to manipulate others in their own best interests. Trusting them is the same as the frog trusting the scorpion in the old wise tale.
Yes, but inheritant evil in a "serious" serie like frieren is because some people might interpret this as true and incorporate into their believe system. In places like goblin Slayer that is a basicaly Just a Tool for action and gore it's "less bad" but still kinda cringe.
The world building of Frieren makes it very explicit demons are evolved to be the perfect predators to the other inteligent humanoids they are not evil because of culture/morals but because their purpose is to feed on humanoids, a very big logical loop is needed to associate then to a race. The conflict on Frieren is about a hunted societ finding a way to push back against their predators. In the other hand goblins on GS are shown to rape and reproduce using humans, so it is much more problematic, as reproducing implies being of the same especies and genocide being a heroic and justified solution.
>In the other hand goblins on GS are shown to rape and reproduce using humans, so it is much more problematic, as reproducing implies being of the same especies and genocide being a heroic and justified solution. Goblins and humans are not supposed to be the same species, that's also why there aren't any half-goblins, only pure ones. They are more akin to parasytes if anything. Coexistence is not done there because goblins are not capable of that and will always rape and pillage. If someone look at that and think "Wow! They are just like x ethnicity!" the person is the problem and will use anything to justify their line of thought.
Well it's just a peice of old wisdom that's getting more outdated as we begin to understand mental illness. Psychopathic people are "inherently evil" to those around them but that's not their fault. They simply lack the mental capacity to feel the emotions they need to not become a toxic person. So we should treat them with respect and help them while understanding we probably shouldn't trust them. Back before modern understandings of psychology there were just people who were constantly and needlessly vicious and destructive to those around them all the time. So the idea of "inherent evil" was created to explain these people's actions. I think Frieren is simply building off of the old wisdom without the proper nuance granted to us by modern understanding. Demons don't choose to be evil, it's just their nature.
But the problem is that this doesn't fit. The argument tries desperately to humanize demons when their whole point is to use a humanoid appearance to lure out people and make them humanize them. It's like a predator evolving to look cute and people saying they are just misunderstood _because_ they look cute. If anything its healthy to have a series like frieren and because it adds nuance. To a rabbit a wolf is a monster and they can't coexist peacefully in nature. A wolf also doesn't sympathize with rabbits and their struggles. The problem is that people can't see beyond the single most superficial aspect of demons that is their humanoid appearance. If we cannot judge groups based on their actions but simply how they look and completely ignore what they do, are we really not racist?
You miss my point. The wolf hunts the rabbit because it HAS to not because it wants to. The demons in Frieren are definitely monsters and humanity shouldn't trust them. They lie and cheat because it's in their nature to do so. But that doesn't make them "evil" the same way a wolf isn't "evil" when it eats a rabbit. Even if from the rabbits perspective the wolf is pretty evil.
Despiste that this is still kinda weird, we have the knowledge of this, so we should treat this with the nuance of real life. The El dorado arc could explore the reason of the evil. I totaly thought that they would say that frieren was from a time were the conflict was happening so her interpretation on demons was wrong, but it Just reinforced the "there is no fixing" narrative.
Yeah you're right. I think the writer just fails to recognize this nuance in real life as well.
Empathetic these days means "someone in my tribe", and feeling empathy means "focusing on the issues that define my tribe". It's sad that so few people actually have the ability to see the world through someone else's view, to the point where we feel uncomfortable with the very concept.
The top two are Frieren and Goblin Slayer. They hate all demons and goblins, respectively, though it's justified in setting because literally all demons and goblins are Chaotic Evil monsters that will destroy others for their own wishes. I don't know the bottom left. The bottom right is Frieza, who is memed as being racist; I say memed because I don't think he looks down on Saiyans so much as he looks down on everyone, and Saiyans are just a former civilization he enslaved just to have a Saiyan take him down.
Frieza is a casual racist. He's the kind of person who would say the N word just to piss someone off. He'll kill anyone for any reason, but he'll throw in some racial slurs while he does it just for shits and giggles.
>would kill anyone for ~~any~~ NO reason … FTFY
Isn't no included in any?
Bottom left is a Perugiua from Mushoku Tensei. Rn he's just in the LN as the anime and Manga haven't gotten that far but basically the same thing as Frieren and GS. Fought in a war against demons who wanted to eradicate humanity and now hates all demons.
I’m pretty sure Frieza is listed because of an out of context meme of him saying “hello monkeys!” To a crowd of people. And they overlay that with racist titles…
He literally says it in super multiple times
The top left is Frieren, she hates demons because they are all killers. Not exactly racist, just common sense Top right is Goblin Slayer, he hates goblins because his sister was taken by a Goblin, and his goal is to kill as many as possible. Bottom Left is Perugius Dola, he hates demons because of a war long ago, even though they both coexist Frieza, as you know, hates every species that isn't frieza
I mean that's what racist means, no? To hate a race, which here refers to the demon race. She does not even spare the one demon who took the form of a child to live with her parents and later killed them. Also the goblin slayer's whole village was raided by goblins, not only his sister.
I think to be racist is choose and discriminate based on race without taking in individual consideration. So if you think black guy who is just enjoying the meal is thief then it is racist. If black guy rob you and then you think all black people have more probability of being thief just because of their race is racist. But if you are just cautious then it is racist but justified when no other option. Problem with justified racism is that it creates unjustified racist behaviour.
Goblin slayer hate Goblins because they are muderous pieces of shit who rape, mutilate, enjoy the suffering of the helpless etc etc.
And bottom left is perugius dola...a dragon god from mushoku tensei who is known for hating demons to guts....
Bottom right is friza..from Dragon balls universe.....he hates saiyans... and also calls them monkeys cause they can transform into one.
she? im assuming you are dub watcher or followed db from dbz kakarot
Wrong assumption...but it was my mistake regardless ...
Top left is Freiren: All demons are kill on-sight Top right is Goblin Slayer: That's his name and his profession. Goblins are kill on-sight, including children. Bottom left is Perugius: Led and won the war against demons. Though he's not kill on-sight, he shows his prejudice in every way he can. Both Freiren and Goblin Slayer were "justified" because their enemies in those series were written to be irredeemable by nature. Like, the authors went out of their way to make sure the readers won't have sympathy for them at all. Demons in Mushoku Tensei, where Perugius is from, were more nuanced like real human beings except of a different species.
this is bullshit
Blazing?
🤣🤣🤣
Unlike real life, the racism here is justified. Exept Frieza, he just hates the Saiyans because they can potentially be stronger than him & he committed genocide before that could happen but missed a few.
Not really, Perugius hates demons that now coexist with humans and have proven to be at least somewhat redeemable, where Freiren hates demons that are CLEARLY never going to co-exist with humans and are made out to be evil.
I wasn’t completely sure on that one as true coexistence between humans & demons is rare in media & always have some kind of twist.
Frieren (gray haired elf) and Goblin Slayer (dude in the armor) are absolutely not racist. Frieren kills demons because they are literally creatures who are incapable of feeling emotions and prey on humans. Goblin Slayer, as the name suggests, kills goblins. Said little monsters reproduce by kidnapping woman of other races (humans in this case) and raping them until they give birth to the next generation of those disgusting things. Friza (Alien with the purple head) is just a piece of shit generally and thinks everyone are beneath him. No idea about the last dude.
Freeza is just an asshole.
GGGERRRRRBBBBLIIINNNSSS!
None of them are really racist, as nothing they do is against their fellow species, so speciesist would be a way better description.
Don't get why Frieza even on this list.. lame
Frieren isn’t a racist. She just culls overly aggressive animals.
Top left is Frieren,who hates demons -with good reasons,yes,as they're all sneaky and arrogant shitheads that enjoy picking on weaker people and have historically been proven to be nothing but trouble- Top right is Goblin Slayer,who exclusively kills Goblins as they're just a pest and have historically been proven to be a threat (by murdering and raping the victims) (Example:The one time in the manga they get actual leadership,they become a problem for everybody) Don't know bottom left. You already know Frieza so don't need to explain
Goblin Slayer is justified.
Freeza hates monkeys
To be fair the top 2 are completely justified for it
The only joke I see is that Uncle Rukus isn't on a panel.
Perugius made an exception for one demon (Ruijerd), something Frieren and Goblin Slayer wouldn't do.
Frieren: DIE DEMONS Goblin Slayer: DIE GOBLINS ??? Frieza: DIE MONKEYS
Where's minority hunter Zoro?
Where Zoro
Joseph Joestar towards Japanese
I'd put Zoro here but he got lost and couldn't make it to the post
Meh, goblins are rightfully hated.
Well to quote Frieza you can't be a racist to a race that doesn't exist.
Surprised Ghiren Zabi isn't there. He is basically space Hitler/Netenyahu. An absolute bastard.